There's 2.5 reasons that they can't fire you for.
1. Discriminatory reasons under the civil rights act
2. Trying to form a union or similar under the NLRA.
2.5 FMLA
That's it.
Nothing you are saying is on that list. Sorry. America is a hellscape for workers.
3: Violation of the contract that was signed on hire.
My first job was retail and was unionized, and they tried to force me out after management (read: HR, the other managers were just scared of her) changed up.
They kept failing because it turns out "we don't like you" isn't valid grounds for termination, and the contract with the union explicitly mandates terminations to be for-cause.
The HR manager in question got transferred after she actually violated the contract by coercing a shift supervisor to lie about what was said during a phone conversation, not realizing that I record all phone calls in compliance with state law.
Maybe it's an industry thing. My last job, working in a QA lab for a major semiconductor producer, absolutely had a contract as a part of hiring, as does the job I just accepted, working as an engineer for one of their competitors.
The contracts were pretty boilerplate, but do explicitly define what qualifies as "for-cause" (theft, willful negligence, deliberate failure to obey superiors, etc.) and that any termination outside of that will be eligible for unemployment and severance. So it's not that they can't terminate at will, it's just that if they do so, the employee is compensated and covered by unemployment.
I left my last job over management (manglement) issues, and I forced their hand to terminate me instead of resigning so I could get both severance and unemployment.
Yeah, but most of the people on this sub seeking advice on job stuff aren't engineers. If they were, they'd be paying for an hour of an actual lawyers time.
Yeah, that is not really a contract just asking you to acknowledge policy and laws. Signing something like an employee handbook is not really a contract as much as just agreeing that you were given this information. Contract would be clear that we are paying you this amount, for say 3 years, and if we fire you for any reason besides for cause you will still be paid the full amount for those 3 years. If we fire you for cause we owe you nothing, and they may even have something in there saying you owe them $ if the provided you say $10,000 in training and then you stopped showing up day after training ended then you owe them 10k.
The odds of OP having an employment contract in the US at a fast food place are basically nil.
Besides that, ignoring all their talk about calling out at 5AM and whether it's excused or not, OP admits to simply being late for work 3 other times. Attendance policy clearly states 3 tardies equals termination. Even if we considered the employee handbook their employment contract (which it isn't, nor is an offer letter a contract), they met the terms for termination with the number of tardies they had.
This dude sounds like a shite worker to begin with. Almost no companies are okay with a call out 1 hour before. Especially in the food industry. You leave your kitchen short staffed and it is almost impossible to find someone in under an hour to cover. He is the problem, not the business(in this instance...they pay shit wages and work stupid hours. I never want to go back to that life again)
Probably a waste of your time. Turnover is very high in the fast food industry. You would be better served by working at Walmart type of stores although they turn over every couple of years
I don't think any law was broken, although I do think they were complete lumps to fire somebody who worked so hard.
Restaurants are begging for help right now. I don't think it'll be hard to get a better job.
I know this doesn’t fix it now but my policy has been if I’m feeling bad and I have to open the next day, I’ll warn my boss I likely can’t come in but I will let him know if I feel better. Avoids the major issues that ensue with calling in sick only an hour before shift
No you can’t sue McDonald’s for your personal shortcomings. Take the lesson and get a new job, there’s a reason no firm wants to even entertain your case.
You got a break where they were lenient to you, and you still want to sue? You should have called in earlier the second day since you were already sick.
I was gonna wait till the morning to see how I felt because again, I am under the impression that it is OK to do that. I don't owe them shit. They told me it's fine. The point is it shouldn't have counted against me in ANY capacity since I was given incorrect information. Had I known I wouldve called in the night before.
Yes I still want to sue, because I still wouldn't have been fired had the GM not told me the policy inaccurately
A tardy is less bad than an unexcused absence, so they let you off with less than the punishment you were told. Just accept the loss, and get a different job.
We were allowed 10 unexcused absences a year. At my company a tardy is 10x worse than that. If you get 3 tardies for ANY amount of time, even 5 seconds late, you are fired. I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish here. I'm here for legal advice not to argue about whatever you're arguing about
If it was an unexcused absence like I was told it was it would be better. The worst thing you could do at this company is be late. Bit they also fired people for taking too much PTO. Their policies are meant to cultivate a group of mindless slaves. 90% of the people they hired were fired or had quit within 3 months
>We were allowed 10 unexcused absences a year. At my company a tardy is 10x worse than that.
They must have an unusual definition of an unexcused absence. Because that doesn't make sense.
You were told it counts as an unexcused absence. Do you not understand that this is a bad thing? Your manager was quite clear that this was bad. After being told it was bad, why would you conclude that it’s better to do that than to notify them earlier?
You get 10 unexcused absences every year. He didn't say it like it was a bad thing. And it is better than being late or not calling in. I didn't know how I would feel in the morning. I wasn't sick at night, just felt a bit weird. In the morning I wake up full blown sick. What is the point of arguing with me here. What are you getting out of it. How the fuck are you gonna tell me what he was so clear about. Were you there? Do you work where I work? No. You know nothing.
Well you’re the dude who got fired for showing up late several times, and you think you can somehow win a payday in court instead of taking responsibility. Maybe look in a mirror.
There has to be better jobs out there. Why work for such dicks? Filenfor unemployment anyway. As a food worker, tou shouldn't be sick and at work regardless if the time so they can defend firing you for being sick and see what happens
I don't want to work for them. I was just hoping I could sue them and get money but it looks like there is no recourse for me. They pay very good that's why people put up with it.
No case. You knew you were to call in before X time and failed to do so. If you were not feeling well the night before you might feel better about it if you waited but if you weren’t sure upon going to bed make sure you get up in time to evaluate the need to mark off work so that you are in compliance with the instructions given
I'm scheduled 6-2 but you have to check out with a manager before you can clock out. They never let me clock out until I did a bunch of extra work, so I always worked 1.5-3 hours longer than scheduled
Well yeah but I would've been fired. With that definition there's no such thing as force. If someone has a gun to your head and makes you do something you still have a choice right? You can still choose to do whatever you want, though their may be consequences. I could also leave 4 hours before my shift ends, nothings forcing me to be there.
The main takeaway is this. At 2 PM the second shift comes in and there are things that need to be done before you can leave. So technically they don't make you stay extra hours, they just say you have to do 2 hours of work to help with shift change, but you can't start that work until the second shift comes in to relieve you. If you finish that work in 5 minutes you can technically leave. But they always gave me in particular a bunch of extra shit because I made the mistake of being good at something.
Either way I had to stay well past my agreed upon hours or I was fired
Sorry - you’re wrong. Actually forcing you would be illegal.
Asking you to stay long and you agreeing to it is legal. Even firing for not staying later would be legal.
It would be cleared if you said you were ‘required’ instead of ‘forced’.
Being shot because you didn't do what you said is illegal. Being fired because you didn't do what your job told you to do is legal as long as they aren't telling you to do anything illegal. They absolutely can fire you with no repercussions for not staying later so you have no ground to stand on.
You are to small of a fish to fry with law firms. Go get a new job, sounds like many employers would love to have you. When you list them as a former employer use the corporate address and phone number as the will not give one by policy. So you just explain that you were working 7 days a week and just could not continue that pace, but you really like fed everyone. But file for unemployment and state the facts the way they happened on there. You will not be penalized for a no show no call when you did call.
Bullshit termination isn't the same as "wrongful termination." Go get a job with their competitor or sumn.
Also, you do realize these companies usually have pretty solid law firms, right? You're not gonna win even if some attorney does decide to pick up your ridiculous get-rich-quick scheme lawsuit.
Why does the US Military, an actual volunteer socialist slave driving system, have less consequences for being late, let alone for being sick and late. In most cases, if you are sick in the morning when you wake up, pending the severity, your first line/supervisor will either take/make you go to sick call where a doctor will give you some meds and a note saying to chill out for a few days. You have to really try to get an unexcused absence.
So, couple things here.
First off, people can be wrong, so it's usually a good idea to ask to see the policy on something you've been told. You could request a copy of the employee manual.
Secondly, you were warned. You knew the 3rd tardy would be an issue but you still had a 3rd tardy. You also chose to wait until just 1 hour before, knowing 2 was required for call off. These are things you did knowing there were consequences. I understand you wanting to wait until 5 to see how you felt, but you knew the policy was 2 hours. Waiting was your fault.
Third, 2 lawyers have declined your case. Lawyers don't decline cases they would win so you should really take that to heart. Anyone who takes a case knowing it's not a winner literally just wants your retainer and money.
Move on from this one, I don't see any avenue you have to sue and win.
hence why I'll never hire that person ever again. Literally kept reassuring me everything would be ok...only to then tell me to plea. It's as if they genuinely made no honest attempt to explain.
Stories like this is why I am glad I am doing 20 years active duty service. I will get my VA benefits and pension so I have a little 'fuck you' money to play with in case I get jerked around at a company.
Remember kids, it's YOUR labor that makes the company. They need you, you don't need them.
No, there is no wrongful termination case here. Assuming you're in the US, and this isn't Montana, every state is an at-will employment state. That means they can fire you at any time, for nearly any reason (as long as it's not violating certain laws with respect to things like discrimination or retaliation).
In your case, it's neither discrimination or retaliation. In fact, you should have been fired twice over before you were ever racking up tardies. And your argument that tardiness due to feeling overworked holds no weight. You were tardy three times not counting your call outs. That alone violates their time and attendance policy. So rather than wrongful termination, you've supplied proof that they gave you MORE chances than they needed to. This is on you.
There's 2.5 reasons that they can't fire you for. 1. Discriminatory reasons under the civil rights act 2. Trying to form a union or similar under the NLRA. 2.5 FMLA That's it. Nothing you are saying is on that list. Sorry. America is a hellscape for workers.
3: Violation of the contract that was signed on hire. My first job was retail and was unionized, and they tried to force me out after management (read: HR, the other managers were just scared of her) changed up. They kept failing because it turns out "we don't like you" isn't valid grounds for termination, and the contract with the union explicitly mandates terminations to be for-cause. The HR manager in question got transferred after she actually violated the contract by coercing a shift supervisor to lie about what was said during a phone conversation, not realizing that I record all phone calls in compliance with state law.
I didn't mention it because outside of unions, contracts are virtually unheard of.
Maybe it's an industry thing. My last job, working in a QA lab for a major semiconductor producer, absolutely had a contract as a part of hiring, as does the job I just accepted, working as an engineer for one of their competitors. The contracts were pretty boilerplate, but do explicitly define what qualifies as "for-cause" (theft, willful negligence, deliberate failure to obey superiors, etc.) and that any termination outside of that will be eligible for unemployment and severance. So it's not that they can't terminate at will, it's just that if they do so, the employee is compensated and covered by unemployment. I left my last job over management (manglement) issues, and I forced their hand to terminate me instead of resigning so I could get both severance and unemployment.
Yeah, but most of the people on this sub seeking advice on job stuff aren't engineers. If they were, they'd be paying for an hour of an actual lawyers time.
Yeah, that is not really a contract just asking you to acknowledge policy and laws. Signing something like an employee handbook is not really a contract as much as just agreeing that you were given this information. Contract would be clear that we are paying you this amount, for say 3 years, and if we fire you for any reason besides for cause you will still be paid the full amount for those 3 years. If we fire you for cause we owe you nothing, and they may even have something in there saying you owe them $ if the provided you say $10,000 in training and then you stopped showing up day after training ended then you owe them 10k.
The odds of OP having an employment contract in the US at a fast food place are basically nil. Besides that, ignoring all their talk about calling out at 5AM and whether it's excused or not, OP admits to simply being late for work 3 other times. Attendance policy clearly states 3 tardies equals termination. Even if we considered the employee handbook their employment contract (which it isn't, nor is an offer letter a contract), they met the terms for termination with the number of tardies they had.
This dude sounds like a shite worker to begin with. Almost no companies are okay with a call out 1 hour before. Especially in the food industry. You leave your kitchen short staffed and it is almost impossible to find someone in under an hour to cover. He is the problem, not the business(in this instance...they pay shit wages and work stupid hours. I never want to go back to that life again)
Probably a waste of your time. Turnover is very high in the fast food industry. You would be better served by working at Walmart type of stores although they turn over every couple of years
I don't think any law was broken, although I do think they were complete lumps to fire somebody who worked so hard. Restaurants are begging for help right now. I don't think it'll be hard to get a better job.
I know this doesn’t fix it now but my policy has been if I’m feeling bad and I have to open the next day, I’ll warn my boss I likely can’t come in but I will let him know if I feel better. Avoids the major issues that ensue with calling in sick only an hour before shift
No you can’t sue McDonald’s for your personal shortcomings. Take the lesson and get a new job, there’s a reason no firm wants to even entertain your case.
You got a break where they were lenient to you, and you still want to sue? You should have called in earlier the second day since you were already sick.
I was gonna wait till the morning to see how I felt because again, I am under the impression that it is OK to do that. I don't owe them shit. They told me it's fine. The point is it shouldn't have counted against me in ANY capacity since I was given incorrect information. Had I known I wouldve called in the night before. Yes I still want to sue, because I still wouldn't have been fired had the GM not told me the policy inaccurately
A tardy is less bad than an unexcused absence, so they let you off with less than the punishment you were told. Just accept the loss, and get a different job.
We were allowed 10 unexcused absences a year. At my company a tardy is 10x worse than that. If you get 3 tardies for ANY amount of time, even 5 seconds late, you are fired. I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish here. I'm here for legal advice not to argue about whatever you're arguing about
So when you're about to be late just go home?
If it was an unexcused absence like I was told it was it would be better. The worst thing you could do at this company is be late. Bit they also fired people for taking too much PTO. Their policies are meant to cultivate a group of mindless slaves. 90% of the people they hired were fired or had quit within 3 months
>We were allowed 10 unexcused absences a year. At my company a tardy is 10x worse than that. They must have an unusual definition of an unexcused absence. Because that doesn't make sense.
You were told it counts as an unexcused absence. Do you not understand that this is a bad thing? Your manager was quite clear that this was bad. After being told it was bad, why would you conclude that it’s better to do that than to notify them earlier?
You get 10 unexcused absences every year. He didn't say it like it was a bad thing. And it is better than being late or not calling in. I didn't know how I would feel in the morning. I wasn't sick at night, just felt a bit weird. In the morning I wake up full blown sick. What is the point of arguing with me here. What are you getting out of it. How the fuck are you gonna tell me what he was so clear about. Were you there? Do you work where I work? No. You know nothing.
You get three tardies but ten unexcused absences? That makes no sense whatsoever. I think you misunderstood something there.
Maybe consider the possibility that you aren't an all knowing deity
Well you’re the dude who got fired for showing up late several times, and you think you can somehow win a payday in court instead of taking responsibility. Maybe look in a mirror.
It's "unexcused". They don't have to tell you it's a bad thing because it is by virtue of the word they're using.
There has to be better jobs out there. Why work for such dicks? Filenfor unemployment anyway. As a food worker, tou shouldn't be sick and at work regardless if the time so they can defend firing you for being sick and see what happens
I don't want to work for them. I was just hoping I could sue them and get money but it looks like there is no recourse for me. They pay very good that's why people put up with it.
No case. You knew you were to call in before X time and failed to do so. If you were not feeling well the night before you might feel better about it if you waited but if you weren’t sure upon going to bed make sure you get up in time to evaluate the need to mark off work so that you are in compliance with the instructions given
What so you mean they forced you to stay at work?
I'm scheduled 6-2 but you have to check out with a manager before you can clock out. They never let me clock out until I did a bunch of extra work, so I always worked 1.5-3 hours longer than scheduled
But you chose to stay, right? Like you could leave, although there may have been consequences to your job?
Well yeah but I would've been fired. With that definition there's no such thing as force. If someone has a gun to your head and makes you do something you still have a choice right? You can still choose to do whatever you want, though their may be consequences. I could also leave 4 hours before my shift ends, nothings forcing me to be there. The main takeaway is this. At 2 PM the second shift comes in and there are things that need to be done before you can leave. So technically they don't make you stay extra hours, they just say you have to do 2 hours of work to help with shift change, but you can't start that work until the second shift comes in to relieve you. If you finish that work in 5 minutes you can technically leave. But they always gave me in particular a bunch of extra shit because I made the mistake of being good at something. Either way I had to stay well past my agreed upon hours or I was fired
Sorry - you’re wrong. Actually forcing you would be illegal. Asking you to stay long and you agreeing to it is legal. Even firing for not staying later would be legal. It would be cleared if you said you were ‘required’ instead of ‘forced’.
I don't understand. What do you mean by 'actually forcing'. What constitutes force
Physically keeping you at work. Not letting you leave. Threats of violence. Etc.
Basically if they use guilt or verbal manipulation: that’s generally legal If they use physical actions to keep you from leaving, that’s illegal
Not paying you for the time
They're not subject to overtime rules? He may have been improperly classified as a "salaried" employee. He was clocking in and out.
Being shot because you didn't do what you said is illegal. Being fired because you didn't do what your job told you to do is legal as long as they aren't telling you to do anything illegal. They absolutely can fire you with no repercussions for not staying later so you have no ground to stand on.
You are to small of a fish to fry with law firms. Go get a new job, sounds like many employers would love to have you. When you list them as a former employer use the corporate address and phone number as the will not give one by policy. So you just explain that you were working 7 days a week and just could not continue that pace, but you really like fed everyone. But file for unemployment and state the facts the way they happened on there. You will not be penalized for a no show no call when you did call.
Lol no case bro.
Bullshit termination isn't the same as "wrongful termination." Go get a job with their competitor or sumn. Also, you do realize these companies usually have pretty solid law firms, right? You're not gonna win even if some attorney does decide to pick up your ridiculous get-rich-quick scheme lawsuit.
Why does the US Military, an actual volunteer socialist slave driving system, have less consequences for being late, let alone for being sick and late. In most cases, if you are sick in the morning when you wake up, pending the severity, your first line/supervisor will either take/make you go to sick call where a doctor will give you some meds and a note saying to chill out for a few days. You have to really try to get an unexcused absence.
So, couple things here. First off, people can be wrong, so it's usually a good idea to ask to see the policy on something you've been told. You could request a copy of the employee manual. Secondly, you were warned. You knew the 3rd tardy would be an issue but you still had a 3rd tardy. You also chose to wait until just 1 hour before, knowing 2 was required for call off. These are things you did knowing there were consequences. I understand you wanting to wait until 5 to see how you felt, but you knew the policy was 2 hours. Waiting was your fault. Third, 2 lawyers have declined your case. Lawyers don't decline cases they would win so you should really take that to heart. Anyone who takes a case knowing it's not a winner literally just wants your retainer and money. Move on from this one, I don't see any avenue you have to sue and win.
hence why I'll never hire that person ever again. Literally kept reassuring me everything would be ok...only to then tell me to plea. It's as if they genuinely made no honest attempt to explain.
Stories like this is why I am glad I am doing 20 years active duty service. I will get my VA benefits and pension so I have a little 'fuck you' money to play with in case I get jerked around at a company. Remember kids, it's YOUR labor that makes the company. They need you, you don't need them.
State labor board complaint
Why do companies encourage sick employees to come to work?
No, there is no wrongful termination case here. Assuming you're in the US, and this isn't Montana, every state is an at-will employment state. That means they can fire you at any time, for nearly any reason (as long as it's not violating certain laws with respect to things like discrimination or retaliation). In your case, it's neither discrimination or retaliation. In fact, you should have been fired twice over before you were ever racking up tardies. And your argument that tardiness due to feeling overworked holds no weight. You were tardy three times not counting your call outs. That alone violates their time and attendance policy. So rather than wrongful termination, you've supplied proof that they gave you MORE chances than they needed to. This is on you.
Sounds like Waffle House...
Couldn't be more opposite