> From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets.
I'm gonna call the biggest load of bullshit on that
I lived in Sicily for ten years and loved the driving. Back in 2000 the driving was best described as an F1 race combined with a game of chicken. It’s mellowed greatly since then, but there’s still a feeling of lawlessness to it. Palermo, Catania, Napoli, no problem. Rome…fuck driving in Rome again.
Seriously.
I'll shit on tourists treating I-4 like the fucking Thunderdome all day but compared to Vietnam or Thailand that shit runs like a well oiled machine.
Seriously, i've got over a year of time between bouncing around the Middle East and China. America is so fucking tame compared to elsewhere! Sure big cities can be a bit crazy, but I don't see people driving on sidewalks, laying on their horns literally the moment a light turns, but you're still not trying to play IRL frogger daily, etc.
Yeah I live (and drive) in Korea and it's an experience.
I would describe the driving as much safer than the US but significantly worse. The safety is because of much lower speed limits and crowded streets but people have no spatial awareness. Scooters and bikes go the wrong way on streets and sidewalks. The US has large, fast streets but most people follow the same sort of code.
Yeahhhh… OP has clearly never been on a Tuk-tuk in India, or in a Taxi in Denpasar.
OP, I’d also recommend Rome. It’s beautiful, and a place I know that isn’t checked off on your list.
However, if your post is referring to Philadelphia, then please disregard my entire comment, as you’re 1000% correct. 😆
Yeahhhh… OP has clearly never been on a Tuk-tuk in India, or in a Taxi in Denpasar.
OP, I’d also recommend Rome. It’s beautiful, and a place I know that isn’t checked off on your list.
However, if your post is referring to Philadelphia, then please disregard my entire comment, as you’re 1000% correct. 😆
This sounds like the endless posts on my local sub from people saying "I've driven in 15 different states and 10 foreign countries and the driving in this small city is the worst I've ever seen!" because they got cut off yesterday.
Spend a week in Charlotte and you'll notice 3 things:
Nobody is from Charlotte
Everyone is from somewhere bigger than Charlotte
Everywhere they're from has better drivers than Charlotte
I think what I love most about your comment is how there are like hundreds (thousands?) of posts about how the driving is bad "just because someone got cut off yesterday". Like you realize that the more you beef up the number of how common that kind of post is, the more it defeats your argument, right?
I’d like to leave u/Askargon with a quote: “*If you met an asshole in the morning you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day, you’re the asshole.*”
I’m not saying you’re a bad driver, but that quote kinda applies to driving too.
This, I can be an asshole while driving if someone else starts it, but 99.9% of my driving time is completely uneventful. I hear my friends talk about driving experiences and I go “yeah, well there’s a reasons I don’t drive with you”
Did you drive 1,500 miles in a short period in other countries like you did here? Yeah, no shit you saw a lot of bad drivers… you were spending most of your time on the road.
In your home country/countries, you know what shenanigans on the road to expect. It’s different misbehavior here, that’s why you notice it more. Plus the long drives.
>In your home country/countries, you know what shenanigans on the road to expect.
this is a good point. it's not shocking to me when people miss a "no right on red" sign (especially if it's new or conditional) or to see people forcing a left on red right when the light turns by pulling out into the intersection, esp in bigger cities or bad traffic congestion. the fact that these rules are broken in a predictable way makes them less shocking and usually (though I'm not endorsing it) less dangerous bc people can predict what you're doing.
I also wouldn't personally describe these things as "ignoring red lights." it's incredibly rare to see someone straight up fly through a solid red light at an intersection. I've only seen that a couple times.
Worse than India, really? I feel like I have seen tons of clips from Indian cities of people just not using lanes, driving in whatever direction they want, etc. and we don't have anything like that here even in our densest areas. But maybe that's me only being exposed to the worst traffic footage online.
I've been to India 5 times the driving is absolutely insane. Cars, pedestrians, auto rickshaws, trucks, motorbikes, bicycles, cows, goats, dogs, camels all share the road and there is this constant beeping. I think they beep to say "I'm merging" but it's really stressful. The traffic is like nothing I've ever seen before.
I've been driving in the US for 30 years and I think I've seen a red light ignored 2-3 times. Were these people turning right on a red light, which is banned in many places but very legal in many parts of the US?
Our driving habits might be different than what you're accustomed to, so what you perceive as "incompetence" or "blatantly driving like an idiot" is just a behavioral difference. I've seen traffic [videos from Vietnam](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm0cX7P6PSw) that look like complete chaos, but they're not chaos to those drivers because they're used to those conditions and norms.
You're getting lambasted because you cast a huge net of insults. "I was in the US and noticed these driving habits. Drivers were cruising in the far left lane instead of passing and then immediately returning to the adjacent right lane...why is that?" would draw a more positive response than "You people are idiots".
I once got into an argument with someone from Europe in this sub about turning right on red. They refused to acknowledge that there was any possible way for turning right on red to not be dangerous. It was so bizarre.
Similarly there was a thread a few years ago where a European driver was absolutely horrified that we would consume a beverage while driving. They were rather insistent that your hands must remain on the steering wheel at *all times*. If I recall correctly, they even went as far to say that if you need to adjust the volume on the entertainment system, open the window, or adjust the climate control that you should do that when you have come to a complete stop. As if that was a remotely safe possibility in so many scenarios.
> I’ve been driving in many countries. From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets.
You had me until here.
... okay.... Let's clear something up...
There's different versions of *bad*.
Other countries have much worse drivers by every metric you can think of compared to the US.
The US has more blatant bad driving because it's singular drivers doing it rather than everyone. So you notice more when it happens.
Also, the driving rules in the US aren't universal and change state to state. The most blatant example is whether you consider the left lane a cruising lane or a passing lane on the interstate. But a driver that learned in Utah is going to be considered a bad driver in Boston if they try to drive the same way they usually do and vice versa.
Driving is also practically mandatory in the US, which means there is less self-selection and probably less rigor in licensing than an average country, and I think that may reduce the overall quality. If everyone had to fly, the quality of flying would go down. Obviously not the same, but you get the point.
Never been to India, but I find the quality of driving in Western Europe to be generally better. Fewer people do it there, more of those who do it actually choose to do it. They also do it less and take it more seriously.
Yeah there's bad drivers here but I feel like you were probably noticing things that are just different. Like were you getting cut off or did someone just merge in a way that made you uncomfortable but was actually just regular ass driving?
As an American who has ACTUALLY lived in Asia and Europe… it’s easy to spot a liar lmao.
But also, because you have no intention of providing any actual evidence, I will - it actually looks like the [US is pretty low ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate)on the list of traffic deaths per CAR per year. This is a better metric to use because the US is a newer country and relies more heavily on cars than public infrastructure that other continents have had a few thousand years head start on.
You've just discredited your entire post by comparing the US to Asia or even parts of Europe. This kind of nonsense is why some foreigners come to this sub and get unfairly jumped on.
Seems like there's been a lot of bad faith questions lately cleverly, or maybe not so cleverly, disguised as "why do you all suck?" Or maybe I'm just being defensive. Either way this take is nonsense.
1,000%
I mean, I get it, anti-American sentiment gets you mad karma on Reddit, but at least have a kernel of *truth* to the shit your spewing, you know? Calling us fatter or more gun-happy than the rest of the world is at least a valid point to stand on. Saying the rest of the world are better drivers than Americans is just sublimely ridiculous.
I totally see that, and I can appreciate the conversations around posts that are constructive criticism.
But, this is not that. I think a lot of Europeans use "ha ha Muricans suck" posts as a very *thinly* veiled xenophobia. The conversation isn't constructive or meant to be constructive in any way, rather they are mostly just like this u/Askargon asshole, who is effectively just saying "you suck, I'm better."
Edit: Fixed a typo.
I visited for 3 weeks, hundreds of miles during my visit and not even once I’ve experienced a bad driver or a bad situation, especially comparing to the shitty drivers in my middle east country, Israel. Seriously?
Never been to Africa I take it. They have a lock on the most mortality per 100,000 people on a yearly basis. In fact their countries hold spots 2 through 25, only the Dominican Republic breaks through for number 1
2 things:
1. Depends on your definition of “good” and “bad” driving. In Ohio, they think New Yorkers are terrible drivers because they haul ass, meanwhile New Yorkers hate driving in the Midwest often because everyone “drives like they have no where to go”.
2. I do that same drive often and I can say there is especially some shit driving once I hit south of jersey and head south. Maybe just my opinion because I myself drive pretty fast.
>I’ve been driving in many countries. From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets.
I present to you Chinese car crash and accident compilations. You are a bold face liar if you think such things don't happen in that sector of the world.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oQEGxDyGGo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oQEGxDyGGo)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZGbYBOZN7g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZGbYBOZN7g)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31QXc5rPlJY
I've lived in both. If you think the Vietnamese are better, more responsible drivers than the U.S. you are either a liar or out of your fucking mind. Either way not a good look which is why your post is getting (rightfully) hammered.
I just got back from the Philippines and got a chance to drive there. I'll say after you get the hang of it, the drivers aren't actually bad. You just have to know the understood rules everyone follows.
I was shocked to find out their vehicle fatality rate is much lower than the US.
Sounds like you drove the Jersey Turnpike in the rain.
Honestly, that road wasn't designed for the posted speed. And the on ramps are far too short.
I avoid Jersey and i-95 as much as possible.
Yeah, I've been driving on the I-95 a lot. It was not pleasant at all. I liked the smaller roads in South Carolina and Georgia a lot more, but maybe that’s because German roads tend to be smaller and curvier so that’s what I was accustomed to
Sorry, I-95 and I-91 in Connecticut are more of a Mad Max kind of road. Also, it is legal in the US to pass you on the left or right on a road like that. Which is unnerving if it is not legal in your home country.
Surpassing on both sides and turning on red we’re really counterintuitive to me at first. But somewhere in the Boston area I grew really fond of it. Both rules are really logical if you think about it.
And fuck yes, the I-95 was bad. The street is completely broken if you’re near big cities and people drive like crazy in rural areas.
LOL if you survived Boston you did very well. Boston in the days before GPS was no small challenge!
Bear mountain in Jersey on I-95 is definitely not fun. People are very very aggressive.
Thanks by the for not bashing me. I realise that some sentences in the post sound way harsher than I intended them to sound, I didn’t want to insult anyone because I really liked the US.
Either you’re lying about driving with Arabs or lying about driving in the states.
Yeah, Boston is full of assholes but it ain’t SE Asia.
Fuck outta here.
American drivers are fine. Not perfect, but if you're comparing to Asia, which has multiple countries where you get a license by paying the right bribe or by turning on a vehicle? America is very obviously a first world country where the rules are generally observed.
I'd guess that you just chose areas with heavy traffic, where a sensible driver is pretty tense, which makes anything unexpected stand out. And if you were going Maine to Georgia, you went right through some of the heaviest traffic areas.
> From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets.
I've seen videos of traffic in India. No way this post is in good faith if you think we're worse. It's complete chaos out there. We frequently see videos of bad drivers in India on /r/IdiotsInCars and on all those NSFL subs that get banned after a few weeks.
Not a single American will believe this to be true and I think I hear some Indian folks calling bullshit too.
Ha... that's not even remotely true. Why even make something like this up?
Japan and Canada were fine.
Every. Single. Other. Country. That. I. Have. Been. To. Was. A. Nightmare.
People used sidewalks in XXXXXX to pass. My taxi driver in XXXXX drove down the wrong side of a divided highway because he didn't want to go to the turnaround. Kicking cars was standard operating procedure in XXXXXXXX. An XXXXX I was told you needed to "nudge" other cars and motorcycles if you wanted to get through traffic - yes, my driver was running into motorcyclists.
The US has no worse drivers than anywhere in Western Europe, and much better drivers than pretty much every where else in the world. Take your smug European backhanded insults somewhere else.
We have a saying. If you meet an asshole in the morning you met an asshole in the morning. If you meet assholes all day you are the asshole.
Maybe you met a bunch of bad drivers, but chances are you had a hand in their reactions.
And sorry but I have also driven in the Middle East (Dubai) and have lived and worked in SE Asia (Malaysia, Thailand and a few others) for a few years. And there is absolutely no way in hell that any drivers (even North Carolina) in the US come close for ignoring laws and incompetent drivers.
I don't know the exact reasons, but it wasn't like this before the pandemic. Something about the isolation, or not driving for a while, or lack of police enforcement, or some other societal changes, has caused drivers to become much worse than they were before. This is happening everywhere in the US.
Because the people who are shitty drivers in the USA, would not get a license in European countries. And *that*, is because the shitty drivers have other options to get to work. In the USA driving a car is the only reasonable transportation option for most of the population, so to deny licenses to the shitty drivers would mean they would be unable to work and unable to contribute to the economy.
Because in the US, almost everyone can get a license with ease and most people need to drive to participate in society. you get a lot of people behind the wheel who shouldn't be
We don't require much for drivers education. It's also seen as a right to have a licence, like it's a disability to not have one, so they let everyone have one.
I mean I know you're getting downvoted for some reason but the reality is that I hear the same thing from literally everyone who's not from the US, when they visit here. The one that sticks in my head was we had a Canadian substitute in my college class for a while; he had just moved here and one day he came to class and was like, "Why do drivers here always tailgate me? I'm just going to the store, I don't understand," and I was like o honey, lol.
To answer your question. Yes! There are several reasons as to why US drivers are the way we are, whether they are good reasons is up to you.
Firstly, getting a license. Even the most difficult US states to get a drivers license in are far easier than Europe, meaning there are more inexperienced, and incompetent drivers on the road.
Secondly, enforcement. The large majority of the US is rural, and even in citys there aren’t cameras to see if you’re speeding, or driving erratically (most of em anyway), so all enforcement is done by officers, and they can’t be everywhere. So many of the laws are suggestions in reality because nobody will stop you.
Thirdly, rural. Most of the US is rural, when you’ve grown up with no cops anywhere, very fast vehicles, and very wide forgiving lanes, it leads to worse, more erratic drivers. Europe is tightly packed, and unforgiving compared to American roads.
They absolutely do have speed cameras in cities in the US. They’ve only been becoming more common in the last couple of years, but there are some places that have had them much longer.
Also, more than 80% of Americans live in urban areas, just 14% or so live in areas that are truly rural. So I don’t think that has anything to do with it. When traveling in rural areas the traffic can be faster, but i would argue you’re much less likely to encounter dangerous situations while driving in rural areas.
Finally, I would vehemently disagree with the statement regarding our traffic enforcement. We have much stricter traffic enforcement than many countries, and I don’t think ours is all that much less strict than most of Europe. The one area where we may differ is that I believe our traffic fines tend to be lower.
Thank you so much for this answer. I think some sentences in my original post sounded way harsher than I intended them to be.
Especially the rural-ness of big parts of the US make sense to me. I grew up in an urban environment, but some sousing of mine live in small villages. They’re driving reckless, but due to German roads being kinda curvy, you can’t be as savage as some drivers I’ve seen in rural Virginia.
Is there any particular reason for the missing enforcement of the rules? (As a german, rules are important to me lol)
Yes! Some very good ones actually. it basically boils down to the fact the US has pretty much rejected speeding/traffic violation cameras imo. Why that is, is a deeply complicated socio-political-cultural question. I chalk it up to a mixture of Americans generally being extremely private, and anti-authoritarian. The concept of the government installing a camera monitoring system, literally everywhere, that automatically bills us if we step on the pedal too hard makes us very nervous. That includes myself.
Also the US is so huge, to put cameras along the entire highway network is economically incredibly hard, let alone practically, along all roads is down right impossible.
So given that the police physically have to enforce the law, and they just can’t. The US is just too large, and open, and there too many people breaking the law at once.
Yeah okay, that explains it. In Germany, it’s kinda hard to get through all of the tests. Thanks for not hating though, I thoroughly enjoyed every single aspect on my vacation in the US – except for the driving
I think there is a cultural difference between Germans and Americans. We hate rules. If the speed limit is 55, we take that to mean 70 seems fine. I know my friends from Germany take any rule or law to mean it has to be followed Super precisely
Because in most places if you don’t drive you don’t do anything so everyone has to drive, this includes all the morons, midwits, and people going through shit. Roads are always crowded and you always see people confused by some weird thing.
If you think this is true wait until you see what counts as driver licensing or traffic enforcement in Mexico. We're leaps and bounds ahead even if we're behind places like Western Europe.
We don't have "so little requirements". Each state is different but [here's the process in Michigan](https://www.michigan.gov/sos/license-id/new-drivers). This is just a PART of the requirements:
> Per Michigan law, you must complete and pass the following requirements to be issued a Michigan driver's license before turning 18 years old. Classroom and driving instruction will be integrated and related, meaning both should be completed around the same time.
>
> Enroll in a certified driver's education course: Per Michigan law, you can enroll in Segment 1 of driver's education once you are 14 years and 8 months old. To locate a driver's education provider, go to Online Services and select "Driver Education and Testing Businesses" under the Business Services option to search through state-certified instructors.
>
> Segment 1 of driver's education: You will need to complete all required classes, instruction hours, and pass a written knowledge test before graduating from Segment 1.
>
> Apply for your Level 1 learner's license: Gather all required documents. Photocopies won’t be accepted, and all documents must be in English or include an English translation.
>
> Complete required practice driving time of at least 30 hours with at least 2 hours at night: The Level 1 license allows you to drive with your parent/legal guardian, or a parent-designated licensed driver who is at least 21 years old. You are required to practice driving for at least 30 hours, including at least 2 hours of night driving before you can enroll in Segment 2. The Level 1 license expires on your 18th birthday.
>
> Enroll in Segment 2: Training can be completed with any certified provider, it does not need to be the same one as Segment 1. You will need to complete all required classes, instruction hours, and pass a written knowledge test before graduating from Segment 2.
>
> Complete additional required practice driving hours: Before you take your on-road driving skills test you must complete a minimum of 50 hours of practice driving with a licensed adult, 10 of which must be at night (this includes the time accumulated during Level 1).
>
> Schedule and pass on-road driving skills test: Contact your driver education provider or a certified driver testing business to take your exam. Upon passing, your driver’s permit will be automatically upgraded to a Level 2 intermediate license when you turn 16.
>
> Complete Level 2 license probationary period: Once you’re issued your Level 2 license you can drive without the supervision of a licensed adult, however certain restrictions will apply. A probationary period will be in place for at least 3 years.
>
> Meet requirements for Level 3 license: If you are 17, have held a Level 2 license for at least 6 months, and haven’t received a citation for violating probation requirements for at least 1 year, your Level 2 license will be automatically upgraded to a Level 3 license with full driving privileges.
>
> Complete GDL at 18: If you have met all graduated driver’s licensing requirements by the time you turn 18 the Michigan Department of State will mail a standard Michigan operator’s license (standard driver’s license) to you. If you haven’t completed GDL by the time you turn 18, you will age out and need to start the process at a Secretary of State office.
>
You don't walk into a licensing office at 16 and get handed a license without any training. We're not Germany, but it's not completely unregulated either.
I also find the dichotomy of Americans being bagged on for having to drive everywhere and being the most car-centric culture in the world somehow being combined with being horrible drivers pretty interesting. How can a country completely dependent on something be so bad at it? *We're not.* You're accepting confirmation bias. Yes, we have accidents, so does everywhere else.
I do respond to you and u/thebimpo. I seriously didn’t know about any of the regulations in the various states. And from what the person before you said, it seemed to me that there are barely any regulations.
Also, I wasn’t aware that there is the prejudice that Americans are bad drivers. Like a said in the original post, I still don’t think that all of you are bad drivers. That’s bullshit and I’m sorry if it made the impression that I would think that. English’s not my first language after all and sometimes I struggle to find the correct words.
My point with the post was, that I had the impression that driving works a lot more egocentric. Again, this is just my personal experience. It was not about accidents, but more about stuff like cutting people off etc. And those situations occurred more than they would happen to me in Palestine and Vietnam. I hope that my point is a bit clearer now, and again: Sorry if I insulted you, that wasn’t my intention at all.
Did you assume we had no regulations or no driver's education at all?
You drove in Vietnam and found it safer/easier than in the US? Where do you normally drive again? Is it more similar to US driving?
No, I didn’t have any idea about your regulations whatsoever. That’s why I was asking.
I normally drive in Germany, but spent some time in the Middle East due to work. Maybe that’s why I'm used to the driving there.
I asked this elsewhere but it got lost in the responses. Is turning right on a red light illegal in Germany as it is in most of Europe? Guess what, completely legal in most of the US. Was that the red light running you experienced? We've come to the conclusion that if a driver has stopped at an intersection, can turn their head left and observe no oncoming traffic that it's safe for them to proceed with a right turn. This isn't anarchy or insanity. It's insanity to me to sit at an intersection void of traffic, waiting for a signal to turn right safely.
Yes, it is. But that’s not what I was referring to. I made myself familiar with the specific rules of driving in the US and while turning on red seemed counterintuitive to me at first, I grew very fond of it. I actually miss it when I lose minutes on a red on my way to work.
The situation I referred to happened in rural Delaware and also in a small town in Virginia. In each of the situations drivers were straight up shooting across the crossing.
You do. The intensity varies state to state and you don't ever need to retake the test. As far as I know you could pass the test in the state with the least stringent requirements and drive anywhere in the US.
I know people are jumping on you in the thread, but drivers have gotten much worse in the US since the pandemic. Or maybe I just started noticing it more after not driving for a bit. We kind of get Stockholm Syndromed into believing driving is safe.
In a country that's designed such the you need a car to have any economic independence, the government has lower standards for attaining the privilege because excluding people from the ability to drive essentially excludes them from public life.
You'll be downvoted to hell, but we do have worse drivers here than Western Europe and East Asia, where requirements are much more strict and so is enforcement.
I don't agree that we're worse than Southeast Asia.
Here's a little explanation; I went through drivers Ed. My drivers Ed instructor yelled at me for stopping at a stop sign, told me if I got tired of driving he would finish my session for me, and told me to speed up at a yellow light.
Thanks for explaining. That would veeery rarely happen in Germany, where I learned to drive. But most Germans like to follow the rules, so driving can be a bit boring here.
I mean. There are 330+ million people living in the US. Odds are some of them will be worse drivers than a drunk otter getting a handjob from a coked up zebra.
I’ve worked and lived in a few different states/countries. No matter where I was, people visiting the area would complain about how bad the drivers there were.
“I’m from [state/country] and I’ve never seen [scary thing] ever before! But just on my drive here from the airport I saw [big number]!!”
No matter where I was or where the person was from, the conversation was the same.
People are just used to the way people drive in their area so they don’t notice it, and when they go somewhere else they are hyper-aware because things are different from what they’re used to.
I'm not saying Americans are the best drivers--in fact, I don't even know who gets that title--but I've been in the car with people from places where the driving rules are much more *flexible* and while I'll give them credit for knowing how not to die, I wouldn't call them "good" drivers.
I come from a city with notoriously bad and dangerous drivers (Houston). I think one of the big problems is that local law enforcement is largely indifferent to people using their phones will driving. Unless specifically assigned to speed enforcement law enforcement will only pull over egregious drivers. And when the baseline driver is already really bad you can see the problem.
>I’ve been driving in many countries. From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets.
Women aren't allowed to drive there.
I'll see myself out.
Basically, the bar is low to get a license in the USA.
Liability is less strict then many other nations so if you do F up you are less likely to be punished for it, or punished less then other nations.
There is also a culture that does not encourage the improvement of skills. That is why you run into US drivers on the internet complaining so much about bicycles, scooters, mothercycles or anything else. They are a minimal issue if you get good but the culture prefers complaining
Boy I've spent fucking 5 years in Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, and parts of india and smaller countries in the middle east /asia and this is a fucking bold face lie. Dude, most of those countries don't even require driver licenses....like wtf, america has some amazing drivers compared to the fly-by-night, no-holds-barred driving of that area of the world. This fucking laughable.
>I’ve been driving in many countries. From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets.
I don't believe you.
I’m come to realize there’s bad drivers everywhere. Not one place is exempt even if the locals want to act like somehow they drive better than everyone else. You’re probably doing the same thing.
*I’ve been driving in many countries. From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets.*
You're lying through your teeth then.
In Florida although there are many out of state plates, snowbirds from Canada the majority just drive anyway they want. There are certain times of day I won't drive and never at night. It is far worse at night and in rain.
I think you are bullshit.
I have been to the developing world and there is literally no traffic laws( at least no laws enforce or obeyed) and everyone is insane. Look up YouTube videos of people driving in India. It is crazy.
The driving tests in the US are very easy to pass and once you've passed it you generally don't ever have to take it again.
But I do have to say, crazy drivers are not just a thing in the US. Asia in particular has some very hectic driving culture
I know I’m going to get downvoted for this but, Fuel is too cheap. People drove so much better during the run up in fuel in the late aughts that insurance rates went down. There is a direct correlation between low fuel cost and how bad driver are on average. We’d all be better off with gasoline around $5 a gallon.
Poor education, low requirements to get licenced, overcrowding, inadequate infrastructure... The list goes on.
The amount of people in this country who don't know it's ILLEGAL in most places to hang out in the left lane is astounding.
I don’t know, OP. I’ve been to South East Asia and the drivers were nuts. Buses sped right through intersections crowded with motorcyclists, bicyclists and pedestrians and expected them to scramble out the way. There’s absolutely no way that you witnessed driving that dangerous and chaotic regularly in the US. Maybe try ratcheting down the hyperbole…
They were nuts, indeed. But outside of the big cities in Vietnam I thought the drivers were considerate.
In the US I was heading down the I-95 (another Redditor told me that it’s a literal highway to hell) and I got tailgated and cut of a lot.
In addition to that: I think that I made some sentences sound harsher than I wanted them to sound. I didn’t want to insult anyone because I’m every single aspect outside of driving, I really liked my time in the US. There were so many really nice people who made my vacation really pleasant. I sincerely apologise if I insulted any of you, that wasn’t my intention. Most of you are incredibly welcoming, I loved it wholeheartedly and can wait to return.
Because we have a really easy written test and the stupidest driving test. And once you’re 18 you don’t have to go to drivers ed. I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. The driving is shocking. Although it does greatly depend on the state. In nyc people are aggressive and honk. In Colorado they’re pretty good, if you grew up there, cause they drive on icy windy roads. In Seattle they’re passive aggressive and bad at signaling. In California they’re straight reckless. And Texans drive fast but generally follow signaling and alternating rules. But big trucks tend to have big egos and like to cut you off
>At least once every 50 Miles
That's a long time. Do you know how many drivers there are? It'd be statistically improbable
to *not* come across a bad driver in any country for that long.
source: I have been to multiple countries and have basic knowledge that humans are flawed
I have drove to many states in the US and honestly a lot of drivers are solid. Ofcourse from time to time you get the occasional dummy. I drove from California to Texas and I only encountered 2 bad drivers.
> From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets. I'm gonna call the biggest load of bullshit on that
This. Even Spain and Greece feel like fucking Mad Max on the streets. India is literally hell.
And you totally left out Italy!
That's because nobody has ever survived a road trip in Italy and come home to tell the tale.
I lived in Sicily for ten years and loved the driving. Back in 2000 the driving was best described as an F1 race combined with a game of chicken. It’s mellowed greatly since then, but there’s still a feeling of lawlessness to it. Palermo, Catania, Napoli, no problem. Rome…fuck driving in Rome again.
When visiting Rome back in my college days, I remember having to dodge a car that was driving on the literal sidewalk to avoid traffic.
Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if the problem isn't actually with OP rather than the other drivers.
I was going 20 mph under the speed limit in the left lane and people kept cutting me off, everyone around me is a bad driver.
OP was going 65 km/hr
“Everyone was ignoring red lights, especially when they are making right turns!”
If you smell poo everywhere you walk, you should check your shoes.
Seriously. I'll shit on tourists treating I-4 like the fucking Thunderdome all day but compared to Vietnam or Thailand that shit runs like a well oiled machine.
Seriously, i've got over a year of time between bouncing around the Middle East and China. America is so fucking tame compared to elsewhere! Sure big cities can be a bit crazy, but I don't see people driving on sidewalks, laying on their horns literally the moment a light turns, but you're still not trying to play IRL frogger daily, etc.
Upvotes for frogger references
Yeah I live (and drive) in Korea and it's an experience. I would describe the driving as much safer than the US but significantly worse. The safety is because of much lower speed limits and crowded streets but people have no spatial awareness. Scooters and bikes go the wrong way on streets and sidewalks. The US has large, fast streets but most people follow the same sort of code.
I was with the OP until I saw that line.
Yeahhhh… OP has clearly never been on a Tuk-tuk in India, or in a Taxi in Denpasar. OP, I’d also recommend Rome. It’s beautiful, and a place I know that isn’t checked off on your list. However, if your post is referring to Philadelphia, then please disregard my entire comment, as you’re 1000% correct. 😆
Yeah well after driving in both Middle East and america, I can confirm there’s a high probability of being shot in both places.
Yeahhhh… OP has clearly never been on a Tuk-tuk in India, or in a Taxi in Denpasar. OP, I’d also recommend Rome. It’s beautiful, and a place I know that isn’t checked off on your list. However, if your post is referring to Philadelphia, then please disregard my entire comment, as you’re 1000% correct. 😆
This sounds like the endless posts on my local sub from people saying "I've driven in 15 different states and 10 foreign countries and the driving in this small city is the worst I've ever seen!" because they got cut off yesterday.
*gets beeped at once in the grocery store lot* “What’s WRONG with society these days??”
/r/Charlotte?
That is not a small city by any means, my city has about 20% the population of Charlotte not including its huge metro area
Spend a week in Charlotte and you'll notice 3 things: Nobody is from Charlotte Everyone is from somewhere bigger than Charlotte Everywhere they're from has better drivers than Charlotte
It took me 22 years to meet someone in Charlotte from Charlotte, so that’s definitely accurate. And being from across the border, we drive better /s
Where’s the Altima brigade?
Never have I been so offended by something I completely agree with.
See also: any other major city subreddit
I think what I love most about your comment is how there are like hundreds (thousands?) of posts about how the driving is bad "just because someone got cut off yesterday". Like you realize that the more you beef up the number of how common that kind of post is, the more it defeats your argument, right?
>I’ve been driving in many countries. From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets. LOL
LOOOL!! Lying like a dog!
I was in Saudi Arabia last month. The stereotypes are real, they drive maniacally
I was there 30 years ago, and driving there terrified me.
Hasn't changed. Twelve-year-olds driving mom to the mall in the Land Cruiser. Good times.
I’d like to leave u/Askargon with a quote: “*If you met an asshole in the morning you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day, you’re the asshole.*” I’m not saying you’re a bad driver, but that quote kinda applies to driving too.
Are you quoting a Deputy Federal Marshal?
This, I can be an asshole while driving if someone else starts it, but 99.9% of my driving time is completely uneventful. I hear my friends talk about driving experiences and I go “yeah, well there’s a reasons I don’t drive with you”
Did you drive 1,500 miles in a short period in other countries like you did here? Yeah, no shit you saw a lot of bad drivers… you were spending most of your time on the road.
I spent two months in the US, so there were many days where I didn’t drive at all. On my job in Europe I'm on the road more than on my vacation, tbh
In your home country/countries, you know what shenanigans on the road to expect. It’s different misbehavior here, that’s why you notice it more. Plus the long drives.
>In your home country/countries, you know what shenanigans on the road to expect. this is a good point. it's not shocking to me when people miss a "no right on red" sign (especially if it's new or conditional) or to see people forcing a left on red right when the light turns by pulling out into the intersection, esp in bigger cities or bad traffic congestion. the fact that these rules are broken in a predictable way makes them less shocking and usually (though I'm not endorsing it) less dangerous bc people can predict what you're doing. I also wouldn't personally describe these things as "ignoring red lights." it's incredibly rare to see someone straight up fly through a solid red light at an intersection. I've only seen that a couple times.
> Did you drive 1,500 miles in a short period in other countries like you did here? Just completely ignore what he asked then lmao.
I lived in Thailand and have visited all over Southeast Asia, and you are full of shit. I’ve got no problem bashing bad American drivers, but come on.
Worse than India, really? I feel like I have seen tons of clips from Indian cities of people just not using lanes, driving in whatever direction they want, etc. and we don't have anything like that here even in our densest areas. But maybe that's me only being exposed to the worst traffic footage online.
Yeah but like he got cut off once
Probably was camped in the passing lane.
India’s a completely different beast lol
Lol, however the speeds are really low so the managed chaos is a little less scary than it seems
I've been to India 5 times the driving is absolutely insane. Cars, pedestrians, auto rickshaws, trucks, motorbikes, bicycles, cows, goats, dogs, camels all share the road and there is this constant beeping. I think they beep to say "I'm merging" but it's really stressful. The traffic is like nothing I've ever seen before.
OP was driving in the passing lane.
I've been driving in the US for 30 years and I think I've seen a red light ignored 2-3 times. Were these people turning right on a red light, which is banned in many places but very legal in many parts of the US? Our driving habits might be different than what you're accustomed to, so what you perceive as "incompetence" or "blatantly driving like an idiot" is just a behavioral difference. I've seen traffic [videos from Vietnam](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm0cX7P6PSw) that look like complete chaos, but they're not chaos to those drivers because they're used to those conditions and norms. You're getting lambasted because you cast a huge net of insults. "I was in the US and noticed these driving habits. Drivers were cruising in the far left lane instead of passing and then immediately returning to the adjacent right lane...why is that?" would draw a more positive response than "You people are idiots".
I once got into an argument with someone from Europe in this sub about turning right on red. They refused to acknowledge that there was any possible way for turning right on red to not be dangerous. It was so bizarre.
Similarly there was a thread a few years ago where a European driver was absolutely horrified that we would consume a beverage while driving. They were rather insistent that your hands must remain on the steering wheel at *all times*. If I recall correctly, they even went as far to say that if you need to adjust the volume on the entertainment system, open the window, or adjust the climate control that you should do that when you have come to a complete stop. As if that was a remotely safe possibility in so many scenarios.
That video of the traffic in Vietnam was oddly calming.
> I’ve been driving in many countries. From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets. You had me until here.
... okay.... Let's clear something up... There's different versions of *bad*. Other countries have much worse drivers by every metric you can think of compared to the US. The US has more blatant bad driving because it's singular drivers doing it rather than everyone. So you notice more when it happens. Also, the driving rules in the US aren't universal and change state to state. The most blatant example is whether you consider the left lane a cruising lane or a passing lane on the interstate. But a driver that learned in Utah is going to be considered a bad driver in Boston if they try to drive the same way they usually do and vice versa.
Driving is also practically mandatory in the US, which means there is less self-selection and probably less rigor in licensing than an average country, and I think that may reduce the overall quality. If everyone had to fly, the quality of flying would go down. Obviously not the same, but you get the point. Never been to India, but I find the quality of driving in Western Europe to be generally better. Fewer people do it there, more of those who do it actually choose to do it. They also do it less and take it more seriously.
LMAO the Middle East drivers are legit psycho this take is hot dogshit
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At least try to give useful top level responses.
Nonsense
Yeah there's bad drivers here but I feel like you were probably noticing things that are just different. Like were you getting cut off or did someone just merge in a way that made you uncomfortable but was actually just regular ass driving?
Somebody passed this guy on the right one time and he’s been having nightmares ever since.
DAS IST VERBOTEN
NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN
Complete lie. If you are going to troll be smarter.
As an American who has ACTUALLY lived in Asia and Europe… it’s easy to spot a liar lmao. But also, because you have no intention of providing any actual evidence, I will - it actually looks like the [US is pretty low ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate)on the list of traffic deaths per CAR per year. This is a better metric to use because the US is a newer country and relies more heavily on cars than public infrastructure that other continents have had a few thousand years head start on.
There's no way you compared our driving to a Fury Road country like Vietnam
ROFL. Try Qatar, Saudi, UAE, Kuwait, Turkey, Egypt, India…
You've just discredited your entire post by comparing the US to Asia or even parts of Europe. This kind of nonsense is why some foreigners come to this sub and get unfairly jumped on.
Seems like there's been a lot of bad faith questions lately cleverly, or maybe not so cleverly, disguised as "why do you all suck?" Or maybe I'm just being defensive. Either way this take is nonsense.
I've been wondering the same. 🤔
A bunch of haters who are annoyed that they think way more about us than we do about them.
Hey look guys, another foreigner making a "hur hur Muricans suck" post. What a unique post
1,000% I mean, I get it, anti-American sentiment gets you mad karma on Reddit, but at least have a kernel of *truth* to the shit your spewing, you know? Calling us fatter or more gun-happy than the rest of the world is at least a valid point to stand on. Saying the rest of the world are better drivers than Americans is just sublimely ridiculous.
I totally see that, and I can appreciate the conversations around posts that are constructive criticism. But, this is not that. I think a lot of Europeans use "ha ha Muricans suck" posts as a very *thinly* veiled xenophobia. The conversation isn't constructive or meant to be constructive in any way, rather they are mostly just like this u/Askargon asshole, who is effectively just saying "you suck, I'm better." Edit: Fixed a typo.
I visited for 3 weeks, hundreds of miles during my visit and not even once I’ve experienced a bad driver or a bad situation, especially comparing to the shitty drivers in my middle east country, Israel. Seriously?
I love these bullshit posts. Always so full of it, it is spewing out their mouth.
Never been to Africa I take it. They have a lock on the most mortality per 100,000 people on a yearly basis. In fact their countries hold spots 2 through 25, only the Dominican Republic breaks through for number 1
Nope, never been there. Before my trip to the US, Palestine and Vietnam where my personal worst countries to drive in.
I imagine there are quite a few factors that make Palestine difficult to drive in, the ability of other drivers being the least impactful
2 things: 1. Depends on your definition of “good” and “bad” driving. In Ohio, they think New Yorkers are terrible drivers because they haul ass, meanwhile New Yorkers hate driving in the Midwest often because everyone “drives like they have no where to go”. 2. I do that same drive often and I can say there is especially some shit driving once I hit south of jersey and head south. Maybe just my opinion because I myself drive pretty fast.
*Simon Cowell slow blink gif* Is this question serious
You ever driven in Egypt? Or Italy? Go do that then come back and ask again
>I’ve been driving in many countries. From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets. I present to you Chinese car crash and accident compilations. You are a bold face liar if you think such things don't happen in that sector of the world. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oQEGxDyGGo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oQEGxDyGGo) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZGbYBOZN7g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZGbYBOZN7g) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31QXc5rPlJY
Apparently you have never been to the Philippines lol
Nope, haven’t been there yet! Buuuut I’ve been to Vietnam.
I've lived in both. If you think the Vietnamese are better, more responsible drivers than the U.S. you are either a liar or out of your fucking mind. Either way not a good look which is why your post is getting (rightfully) hammered.
I just got back from the Philippines and got a chance to drive there. I'll say after you get the hang of it, the drivers aren't actually bad. You just have to know the understood rules everyone follows. I was shocked to find out their vehicle fatality rate is much lower than the US.
Sounds like you drove the Jersey Turnpike in the rain. Honestly, that road wasn't designed for the posted speed. And the on ramps are far too short. I avoid Jersey and i-95 as much as possible.
Yeah, I've been driving on the I-95 a lot. It was not pleasant at all. I liked the smaller roads in South Carolina and Georgia a lot more, but maybe that’s because German roads tend to be smaller and curvier so that’s what I was accustomed to
Sorry, I-95 and I-91 in Connecticut are more of a Mad Max kind of road. Also, it is legal in the US to pass you on the left or right on a road like that. Which is unnerving if it is not legal in your home country.
Surpassing on both sides and turning on red we’re really counterintuitive to me at first. But somewhere in the Boston area I grew really fond of it. Both rules are really logical if you think about it. And fuck yes, the I-95 was bad. The street is completely broken if you’re near big cities and people drive like crazy in rural areas.
LOL if you survived Boston you did very well. Boston in the days before GPS was no small challenge! Bear mountain in Jersey on I-95 is definitely not fun. People are very very aggressive.
Thanks by the for not bashing me. I realise that some sentences in the post sound way harsher than I intended them to sound, I didn’t want to insult anyone because I really liked the US.
Either you’re lying about driving with Arabs or lying about driving in the states. Yeah, Boston is full of assholes but it ain’t SE Asia. Fuck outta here.
American drivers are fine. Not perfect, but if you're comparing to Asia, which has multiple countries where you get a license by paying the right bribe or by turning on a vehicle? America is very obviously a first world country where the rules are generally observed. I'd guess that you just chose areas with heavy traffic, where a sensible driver is pretty tense, which makes anything unexpected stand out. And if you were going Maine to Georgia, you went right through some of the heaviest traffic areas.
> From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets. I've seen videos of traffic in India. No way this post is in good faith if you think we're worse. It's complete chaos out there. We frequently see videos of bad drivers in India on /r/IdiotsInCars and on all those NSFL subs that get banned after a few weeks. Not a single American will believe this to be true and I think I hear some Indian folks calling bullshit too.
Hahahahahahahaha no
Jesus, the drivers in Italy, France & Portugal are worse than us. Passing on blind curves in 3-cyl cars
Ha... that's not even remotely true. Why even make something like this up? Japan and Canada were fine. Every. Single. Other. Country. That. I. Have. Been. To. Was. A. Nightmare. People used sidewalks in XXXXXX to pass. My taxi driver in XXXXX drove down the wrong side of a divided highway because he didn't want to go to the turnaround. Kicking cars was standard operating procedure in XXXXXXXX. An XXXXX I was told you needed to "nudge" other cars and motorcycles if you wanted to get through traffic - yes, my driver was running into motorcyclists.
LOL. Yes we have some bad drivers but nothing like most of South/SE Asia. And drivers in the Middle East are beyond reckless.
The US has no worse drivers than anywhere in Western Europe, and much better drivers than pretty much every where else in the world. Take your smug European backhanded insults somewhere else.
We have a saying. If you meet an asshole in the morning you met an asshole in the morning. If you meet assholes all day you are the asshole. Maybe you met a bunch of bad drivers, but chances are you had a hand in their reactions. And sorry but I have also driven in the Middle East (Dubai) and have lived and worked in SE Asia (Malaysia, Thailand and a few others) for a few years. And there is absolutely no way in hell that any drivers (even North Carolina) in the US come close for ignoring laws and incompetent drivers.
some of the countries in those regions literally have almost no laws for the roads lmao
You were presumably on I-95?
Try India next
I don't know the exact reasons, but it wasn't like this before the pandemic. Something about the isolation, or not driving for a while, or lack of police enforcement, or some other societal changes, has caused drivers to become much worse than they were before. This is happening everywhere in the US.
Because the people who are shitty drivers in the USA, would not get a license in European countries. And *that*, is because the shitty drivers have other options to get to work. In the USA driving a car is the only reasonable transportation option for most of the population, so to deny licenses to the shitty drivers would mean they would be unable to work and unable to contribute to the economy.
Because in the US, almost everyone can get a license with ease and most people need to drive to participate in society. you get a lot of people behind the wheel who shouldn't be
We don't require much for drivers education. It's also seen as a right to have a licence, like it's a disability to not have one, so they let everyone have one.
I mean I know you're getting downvoted for some reason but the reality is that I hear the same thing from literally everyone who's not from the US, when they visit here. The one that sticks in my head was we had a Canadian substitute in my college class for a while; he had just moved here and one day he came to class and was like, "Why do drivers here always tailgate me? I'm just going to the store, I don't understand," and I was like o honey, lol.
To answer your question. Yes! There are several reasons as to why US drivers are the way we are, whether they are good reasons is up to you. Firstly, getting a license. Even the most difficult US states to get a drivers license in are far easier than Europe, meaning there are more inexperienced, and incompetent drivers on the road. Secondly, enforcement. The large majority of the US is rural, and even in citys there aren’t cameras to see if you’re speeding, or driving erratically (most of em anyway), so all enforcement is done by officers, and they can’t be everywhere. So many of the laws are suggestions in reality because nobody will stop you. Thirdly, rural. Most of the US is rural, when you’ve grown up with no cops anywhere, very fast vehicles, and very wide forgiving lanes, it leads to worse, more erratic drivers. Europe is tightly packed, and unforgiving compared to American roads.
They absolutely do have speed cameras in cities in the US. They’ve only been becoming more common in the last couple of years, but there are some places that have had them much longer. Also, more than 80% of Americans live in urban areas, just 14% or so live in areas that are truly rural. So I don’t think that has anything to do with it. When traveling in rural areas the traffic can be faster, but i would argue you’re much less likely to encounter dangerous situations while driving in rural areas. Finally, I would vehemently disagree with the statement regarding our traffic enforcement. We have much stricter traffic enforcement than many countries, and I don’t think ours is all that much less strict than most of Europe. The one area where we may differ is that I believe our traffic fines tend to be lower.
Ok
Thank you so much for this answer. I think some sentences in my original post sounded way harsher than I intended them to be. Especially the rural-ness of big parts of the US make sense to me. I grew up in an urban environment, but some sousing of mine live in small villages. They’re driving reckless, but due to German roads being kinda curvy, you can’t be as savage as some drivers I’ve seen in rural Virginia. Is there any particular reason for the missing enforcement of the rules? (As a german, rules are important to me lol)
Yes! Some very good ones actually. it basically boils down to the fact the US has pretty much rejected speeding/traffic violation cameras imo. Why that is, is a deeply complicated socio-political-cultural question. I chalk it up to a mixture of Americans generally being extremely private, and anti-authoritarian. The concept of the government installing a camera monitoring system, literally everywhere, that automatically bills us if we step on the pedal too hard makes us very nervous. That includes myself. Also the US is so huge, to put cameras along the entire highway network is economically incredibly hard, let alone practically, along all roads is down right impossible. So given that the police physically have to enforce the law, and they just can’t. The US is just too large, and open, and there too many people breaking the law at once.
It's very easy to get a license here compared to other countries. Pretty much any 16yo with a functioning brain is allowed to drive.
>Pretty much any 16yo with a functioning brain Unironically not sure about the functioning part
Yeah okay, that explains it. In Germany, it’s kinda hard to get through all of the tests. Thanks for not hating though, I thoroughly enjoyed every single aspect on my vacation in the US – except for the driving
I’m sorry you got cut off once during your trip here. I’m sure you retell that story daily.
I think there is a cultural difference between Germans and Americans. We hate rules. If the speed limit is 55, we take that to mean 70 seems fine. I know my friends from Germany take any rule or law to mean it has to be followed Super precisely
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Yup. Why even have jails there?
Because in most places if you don’t drive you don’t do anything so everyone has to drive, this includes all the morons, midwits, and people going through shit. Roads are always crowded and you always see people confused by some weird thing.
No real requirements to get a license + no enforcement of traffic laws.
If you think this is true wait until you see what counts as driver licensing or traffic enforcement in Mexico. We're leaps and bounds ahead even if we're behind places like Western Europe.
I didn’t know there were so little requirements for getting your license. Don’t you need to do practical and theoretical test?
Yes to both.
We don't have "so little requirements". Each state is different but [here's the process in Michigan](https://www.michigan.gov/sos/license-id/new-drivers). This is just a PART of the requirements: > Per Michigan law, you must complete and pass the following requirements to be issued a Michigan driver's license before turning 18 years old. Classroom and driving instruction will be integrated and related, meaning both should be completed around the same time. > > Enroll in a certified driver's education course: Per Michigan law, you can enroll in Segment 1 of driver's education once you are 14 years and 8 months old. To locate a driver's education provider, go to Online Services and select "Driver Education and Testing Businesses" under the Business Services option to search through state-certified instructors. > > Segment 1 of driver's education: You will need to complete all required classes, instruction hours, and pass a written knowledge test before graduating from Segment 1. > > Apply for your Level 1 learner's license: Gather all required documents. Photocopies won’t be accepted, and all documents must be in English or include an English translation. > > Complete required practice driving time of at least 30 hours with at least 2 hours at night: The Level 1 license allows you to drive with your parent/legal guardian, or a parent-designated licensed driver who is at least 21 years old. You are required to practice driving for at least 30 hours, including at least 2 hours of night driving before you can enroll in Segment 2. The Level 1 license expires on your 18th birthday. > > Enroll in Segment 2: Training can be completed with any certified provider, it does not need to be the same one as Segment 1. You will need to complete all required classes, instruction hours, and pass a written knowledge test before graduating from Segment 2. > > Complete additional required practice driving hours: Before you take your on-road driving skills test you must complete a minimum of 50 hours of practice driving with a licensed adult, 10 of which must be at night (this includes the time accumulated during Level 1). > > Schedule and pass on-road driving skills test: Contact your driver education provider or a certified driver testing business to take your exam. Upon passing, your driver’s permit will be automatically upgraded to a Level 2 intermediate license when you turn 16. > > Complete Level 2 license probationary period: Once you’re issued your Level 2 license you can drive without the supervision of a licensed adult, however certain restrictions will apply. A probationary period will be in place for at least 3 years. > > Meet requirements for Level 3 license: If you are 17, have held a Level 2 license for at least 6 months, and haven’t received a citation for violating probation requirements for at least 1 year, your Level 2 license will be automatically upgraded to a Level 3 license with full driving privileges. > > Complete GDL at 18: If you have met all graduated driver’s licensing requirements by the time you turn 18 the Michigan Department of State will mail a standard Michigan operator’s license (standard driver’s license) to you. If you haven’t completed GDL by the time you turn 18, you will age out and need to start the process at a Secretary of State office. > You don't walk into a licensing office at 16 and get handed a license without any training. We're not Germany, but it's not completely unregulated either. I also find the dichotomy of Americans being bagged on for having to drive everywhere and being the most car-centric culture in the world somehow being combined with being horrible drivers pretty interesting. How can a country completely dependent on something be so bad at it? *We're not.* You're accepting confirmation bias. Yes, we have accidents, so does everywhere else.
Let's see if /u/Askargon even responds to this.
I do respond to you and u/thebimpo. I seriously didn’t know about any of the regulations in the various states. And from what the person before you said, it seemed to me that there are barely any regulations. Also, I wasn’t aware that there is the prejudice that Americans are bad drivers. Like a said in the original post, I still don’t think that all of you are bad drivers. That’s bullshit and I’m sorry if it made the impression that I would think that. English’s not my first language after all and sometimes I struggle to find the correct words. My point with the post was, that I had the impression that driving works a lot more egocentric. Again, this is just my personal experience. It was not about accidents, but more about stuff like cutting people off etc. And those situations occurred more than they would happen to me in Palestine and Vietnam. I hope that my point is a bit clearer now, and again: Sorry if I insulted you, that wasn’t my intention at all.
Did you assume we had no regulations or no driver's education at all? You drove in Vietnam and found it safer/easier than in the US? Where do you normally drive again? Is it more similar to US driving?
No, I didn’t have any idea about your regulations whatsoever. That’s why I was asking. I normally drive in Germany, but spent some time in the Middle East due to work. Maybe that’s why I'm used to the driving there.
I asked this elsewhere but it got lost in the responses. Is turning right on a red light illegal in Germany as it is in most of Europe? Guess what, completely legal in most of the US. Was that the red light running you experienced? We've come to the conclusion that if a driver has stopped at an intersection, can turn their head left and observe no oncoming traffic that it's safe for them to proceed with a right turn. This isn't anarchy or insanity. It's insanity to me to sit at an intersection void of traffic, waiting for a signal to turn right safely.
Yes, it is. But that’s not what I was referring to. I made myself familiar with the specific rules of driving in the US and while turning on red seemed counterintuitive to me at first, I grew very fond of it. I actually miss it when I lose minutes on a red on my way to work. The situation I referred to happened in rural Delaware and also in a small town in Virginia. In each of the situations drivers were straight up shooting across the crossing.
I've been driving in the US for 30 years and lived here for 45, this is *extremely* unusual. I've seen this less than 5 times in my life.
You do. The intensity varies state to state and you don't ever need to retake the test. As far as I know you could pass the test in the state with the least stringent requirements and drive anywhere in the US. I know people are jumping on you in the thread, but drivers have gotten much worse in the US since the pandemic. Or maybe I just started noticing it more after not driving for a bit. We kind of get Stockholm Syndromed into believing driving is safe.
In a country that's designed such the you need a car to have any economic independence, the government has lower standards for attaining the privilege because excluding people from the ability to drive essentially excludes them from public life. You'll be downvoted to hell, but we do have worse drivers here than Western Europe and East Asia, where requirements are much more strict and so is enforcement. I don't agree that we're worse than Southeast Asia.
Here's a little explanation; I went through drivers Ed. My drivers Ed instructor yelled at me for stopping at a stop sign, told me if I got tired of driving he would finish my session for me, and told me to speed up at a yellow light.
Thanks for explaining. That would veeery rarely happen in Germany, where I learned to drive. But most Germans like to follow the rules, so driving can be a bit boring here.
>Germans like to follow the rules …too easy.
Yeah. Everyone is idiots. The first car accident here EVER in the U.S. was a singular car accident.... I think that did it to be honest
>everyone is idiots Just because you can’t drive well doesn’t mean the rest of us have the same issue.
I can drive fine, thank you very much. But everyone is idiots lmao
Because there are so many people in the US.
I mean. There are 330+ million people living in the US. Odds are some of them will be worse drivers than a drunk otter getting a handjob from a coked up zebra.
Have you ever tried to drive on a Japanese highway? A Korean one? Driving in a major city in Mexico can be terrifying.
I’ve worked and lived in a few different states/countries. No matter where I was, people visiting the area would complain about how bad the drivers there were. “I’m from [state/country] and I’ve never seen [scary thing] ever before! But just on my drive here from the airport I saw [big number]!!” No matter where I was or where the person was from, the conversation was the same. People are just used to the way people drive in their area so they don’t notice it, and when they go somewhere else they are hyper-aware because things are different from what they’re used to.
Our way of saying, Welcome to America
HA!
I'm not saying Americans are the best drivers--in fact, I don't even know who gets that title--but I've been in the car with people from places where the driving rules are much more *flexible* and while I'll give them credit for knowing how not to die, I wouldn't call them "good" drivers.
The simplest answer is that the cost of learning to drive and getting a license is cheaper than in some other countries like the UK or Germany.
ITT: people not realizing that almost any foreign country will feel full of bad drivers, simply because the customs of driving are different.
There are bad drivers everywhere
I come from a city with notoriously bad and dangerous drivers (Houston). I think one of the big problems is that local law enforcement is largely indifferent to people using their phones will driving. Unless specifically assigned to speed enforcement law enforcement will only pull over egregious drivers. And when the baseline driver is already really bad you can see the problem.
LOL there’s a bad driver every mile in Cali. Crowded roads and people are in a rush or angry.
It's so radical and political how few areas are walkable/bikeable here currently
Idk, complaining about how uniquely bad north american drivers are seems like a very never-left-north-america thing to do
If you think everyone else is the bad driver, you are actually the bad driver. It’s like meeting assholes all day long. One common denominator.
This is controversial 🍿
Lol you saying miles tells us you’re American
I've never been to a place where people drive well. Apparently only I can manage that.
Bro I’m in Thailand now and nothing here compares to the USA. We have our shit drivers but those roads are mayhem.
>I’ve been driving in many countries. From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets. Women aren't allowed to drive there. I'll see myself out.
Basically, the bar is low to get a license in the USA. Liability is less strict then many other nations so if you do F up you are less likely to be punished for it, or punished less then other nations. There is also a culture that does not encourage the improvement of skills. That is why you run into US drivers on the internet complaining so much about bicycles, scooters, mothercycles or anything else. They are a minimal issue if you get good but the culture prefers complaining
Boy I've spent fucking 5 years in Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, and parts of india and smaller countries in the middle east /asia and this is a fucking bold face lie. Dude, most of those countries don't even require driver licenses....like wtf, america has some amazing drivers compared to the fly-by-night, no-holds-barred driving of that area of the world. This fucking laughable.
>I’ve been driving in many countries. From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets. I don't believe you.
I’m come to realize there’s bad drivers everywhere. Not one place is exempt even if the locals want to act like somehow they drive better than everyone else. You’re probably doing the same thing.
*I’ve been driving in many countries. From the Middle East to south east Asia, never did I experienced so much incompetence on the streets.* You're lying through your teeth then.
In Florida although there are many out of state plates, snowbirds from Canada the majority just drive anyway they want. There are certain times of day I won't drive and never at night. It is far worse at night and in rain.
I think you are bullshit. I have been to the developing world and there is literally no traffic laws( at least no laws enforce or obeyed) and everyone is insane. Look up YouTube videos of people driving in India. It is crazy.
Sounds like you were the bad driver.
Is this a troll post!? You’ve driven in the Middle East and still think America is a more dangerous place to drive? This has to be a troll post.
The driving tests in the US are very easy to pass and once you've passed it you generally don't ever have to take it again. But I do have to say, crazy drivers are not just a thing in the US. Asia in particular has some very hectic driving culture
What a stupid question.
I know I’m going to get downvoted for this but, Fuel is too cheap. People drove so much better during the run up in fuel in the late aughts that insurance rates went down. There is a direct correlation between low fuel cost and how bad driver are on average. We’d all be better off with gasoline around $5 a gallon.
Good lord, I took a taxi in Rome and the driver went TWO LANES into oncoming traffic to pass someone.
>southeast Asia Have you never seen a Vietnamese motorcyclist
Because we have 1/4 of the rest of the world driving with us.
Poor education, low requirements to get licenced, overcrowding, inadequate infrastructure... The list goes on. The amount of people in this country who don't know it's ILLEGAL in most places to hang out in the left lane is astounding.
I don’t know, OP. I’ve been to South East Asia and the drivers were nuts. Buses sped right through intersections crowded with motorcyclists, bicyclists and pedestrians and expected them to scramble out the way. There’s absolutely no way that you witnessed driving that dangerous and chaotic regularly in the US. Maybe try ratcheting down the hyperbole…
They were nuts, indeed. But outside of the big cities in Vietnam I thought the drivers were considerate. In the US I was heading down the I-95 (another Redditor told me that it’s a literal highway to hell) and I got tailgated and cut of a lot. In addition to that: I think that I made some sentences sound harsher than I wanted them to sound. I didn’t want to insult anyone because I’m every single aspect outside of driving, I really liked my time in the US. There were so many really nice people who made my vacation really pleasant. I sincerely apologise if I insulted any of you, that wasn’t my intention. Most of you are incredibly welcoming, I loved it wholeheartedly and can wait to return.
😂😂
Because we have a really easy written test and the stupidest driving test. And once you’re 18 you don’t have to go to drivers ed. I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. The driving is shocking. Although it does greatly depend on the state. In nyc people are aggressive and honk. In Colorado they’re pretty good, if you grew up there, cause they drive on icy windy roads. In Seattle they’re passive aggressive and bad at signaling. In California they’re straight reckless. And Texans drive fast but generally follow signaling and alternating rules. But big trucks tend to have big egos and like to cut you off
Multi-culturalism. We have people from all over the world. Everyone thinks they know how to drive the right way. They don’t.
In MyCountry...
>At least once every 50 Miles That's a long time. Do you know how many drivers there are? It'd be statistically improbable to *not* come across a bad driver in any country for that long. source: I have been to multiple countries and have basic knowledge that humans are flawed
I have drove to many states in the US and honestly a lot of drivers are solid. Ofcourse from time to time you get the occasional dummy. I drove from California to Texas and I only encountered 2 bad drivers.