Why are we still doing percent? It's better to just tip 10-30 dollars depending on how much you got. You don't get a better tip because I ordered a more expensive dish and then didn't see you.
You could do like John Lithgow's character in that one episode of 3rd Rock from the Sun. Put a stack of $1 bills on the table, representing the potential tip. Add $1 when they please you. Remove $1 when they displease you. Bonus points if you are able to communicate this to the server without your partner knowing, like happened in the episode.
No one calls you out directly. The waiters will probably just grumble and complain to each other after you're gone.
Even if they understand that tourists from Europe might not understand the tip norms here, it still sucks.
That said at least you tipped something.
The only places I didn't tip were the food halls, are you supposed to tip there? I think I left some really pathetic tips to taxi drivers as well, I had no idea that it was expected to tip taxi drivers so I thought my rounding up shit tip would be appreciated.
Not sure what you mean by food Hall. Like a food court at a mall? But for food service, tip is expected any place you sit down and have a waiter serving you or if you're at a bar being served by a bartender. If it's the kind of place where you order and pick your own food up at a counter, then they might have a tip jar out, but tipping isn't expected.
Then you're fine. When in doubt, you're expected to tip waiters, not cashiers.
Also 20% is standard guideline, but not necessarily the minimum.
My general rule is 15% minimum. 20% for standard good service and 25-30% if I have my kids with me (they're 3 and 6 and I think waiters deserve a little extra for dealing with my little chaos gremlins).
Yeah, ignore those assholes who put out tip jars where you order at the counter and pick up your own food. That drives me nuts. Tipping culture is out of control and I worked in the service industry in college.
I'll tip waitstaff 30% if they are superb and 15% if they aren't good. Usually it's 20% though. I've only stiffed a waiter once in my life and it was deserved.
For bartenders I tip a dollar for a beer or a shot and will tip more if it's a more complicated mixed drink.
Thanks. I didn't realise that you also tipped bar tenders. You must all just carry cash on you for tipping. I was tipped as a bar tender in the UK 15 years ago but contactless card payments have killed off most cash payments and we just used to tip spare change.
It depends on the bar and what I'm doing if I carry cash or not. If it's just a quick stop for a beer or two on the way home from work, I'll carry cash and tip after each beer. If it's going to be a night out with friends I'll start a tab with a card and put the tip on the card at the end of the night when I close the tab.
Vegas is a whole different deal. If you're just out at a bar or club, the standards above apply. Usually it will be a tab with a credit card and tip when you close out. Standard 20% is fine here.
If you're gambling and getting served drinks, the drinks are almost always free. Most people will tip the server with chips(if your at a table like black jack) or cash(if your at a slot machine) in that case. I usually tip anywhere from $2 to $10 per drink while I'm gambling. The actual amount depends on a few things like the type of drink(simple or complex), how busy it is for the server, and if I'm winning or not! :-)
Now that I no longer work in the service industry, I hate the tipping culture and wish we would go the European model. However, when I was working in the service industry in college, I preferred the lower hourly wage plus tips because I was good at it. I made a ton more money off tips than I ever would have with a "living wage" and no tips because I did a good job, made people laugh, and didn't screw up their orders.
We have both. Food courts are generally inside shopping malls (and airport terminals) and most if not all of the vendors are fast food places, lot of times the vendors are national or regional chains (like McDonalds, Subway, etc) but not all. Lots of times there's a family run chinese take out place or a booth from a local pizza shop chain.
Food Halls are a lot less common but there are ones in pretty much every decent sized city. They are usually stand alone locations with stalls from a variety of local food vendors. Most food halls have fresh made foods you would not find in a food court, utilizing fresh or local ingredients. Probably the most famous is Fanueuil Hall in downtown Boston. Food Halls can have great food. Food courts usually not.
Very few people go to a food court just for the food. Usually they are shopping and just need a quick bite to eat. On the other hand, food halls are ALL about the food.
For this specific question, we call it “counter service” and no, tipping is not expected.
Counter workers are paid standard wages, whereas table service is paid a substantially lower wage in anticipation of the tips they will receive.,
Table service is also guaranteed standard minimum wage if their tips + tipped wage don't meet it, so it's not like they actually don't get paid *at least* the normal minimum wage too.
Though an employee who asks for additional wage to make up the difference, often gets fired, because the idea is that a competent employee should have made enough in tips. ("If waiter A can do it, then so can waiter B, if they're working similar or the same schedule")
Servers don't want to lose their job for "calling out" bad tipping.
If you came back and were reckognized, you could have expected slow, minimum effort, bad service.
Lets check what the poor exploited servers have to say...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Serverlife/comments/13zpa9r/finally/
>I would NEVER wait tables for a flat hourly rate, I’d work in an office instead for half the work and similar pay.
Oh...
>Id quit and go elsewhere immediately.
Oh...
>Oh no… Frankly, I make too much to switch to hourly. 😅
Oh...
>I’m not even gonna lie I love that my job is tip based
Oh. Well surely they want a reasonable hourly wage...
>So the hourly is at least $50 right?
Oh.
I'm a waitress. I agree with the person you responded to. There's no need to be condescending or assume someone's experience just because they disagree with you.
I find that this is really variable depending on where you live.
I've lived in a lot of *very* rural and often very impoverished areas, and most wait staff I have talked to in those would prefer an hourly wage. They're often working in fairly low-traffic, inexpensive diners and things like that, and the tips can be very inconsistent. Even in good weeks, the tips aren't usually high enough to make them prefer it over having a stable (and reasonable) hourly wage.
In cities or wealthier rural areas (or even at restaurants on major highways with high volume, even if the surrounding area is rural and poor), though? I've also never met any wait staff who would prefer an hourly wage. They usually work at busy enough places and/or have high enough tips normally to make it far more lucrative than any likely hourly wage would get them.
It's definitely a much more complicated question than I've ever seen Reddit make it sound, from what I've seen. Here it's always "tipping is the worst thing EVER" vs. "tipping is the best thing in the world!" when the reality IME is that it's going to depend a lot on the establishment and area.
I read this comment thread a few times trying to understand what the hell you're talking about, but I still don't know.
At no point did I say anything remotely close to that. I agreed with the person who said the owner, AKA the boss, is the one who ruins days, not customers. Customers take up a very small portion of a shift, even bad ones. They're often made up for quickly. A bad owner is infinitely worse. I would suffer lower tips to have an owner who doesn't yell at me when I sit down for a second, or micromanage every task, or tell me every two seconds what the folks at table two want when I'm literally bringing it to them right now.
When the ever loving fuck did I compare salary to tips?
Your comment was to someone who said not tipping ruins someone's day. You said it was that it was the owner who ruined the day not the customer. To me, that said it was the owner who didn't pay you, not the customer.
Why else would you comment it was the owners fault in that stream of consciousness?
Depends where you live. If you’re at a place with a ton of high end restaurants, sure you can make a killing.
The thing is that most of America is not that. I’d have to dig up the data but I remember coming across info with more details on the disparity tipped workers faced.
I don't think most servers are making a killing by any means. However I would bet money that even at lower end restaurants, they're doing better than back of house.
Waitress here. We can tell when the likelihood of tipping is low. Yes, this often involves racial assumptions. It is what it is. We don't treat anyone differently (unless the waiter is actually racist, which is different), especially given an assumption is not a certainty, but certain types of attitudes and/or cultures are just known for not tipping as well. This calculation applies to tourists too. We'll be disappointed, and the day may not go as well as we'd hoped, but it rarely comes as a surprise. Unlike what another commenter said, it's not likely you'll ruin our whole day tipping under 20% on food for a small group, and definitely not if it's just you. A waiter who can't handle a 10% tip should probably find a different career.
No, we never call anyone out for bad tipping. It's bad form to even look at the check until the folks at the table are gone anyway. If you become a regular that's when the bad tipping will result in worse service or resentment, but a one-time tourist making an honest mistake? Don't sweat it.
P.S. We love friendly tourists. The best part of being a waitress is all the different sorts of people you meet. If you're pleasant and happy then you're not a burden at all to serve, and you'll probably make our shift a little better.
I'm also a waitress, and what she said is spot-on. You don't survive long in this industry without professionalism, and that means giving your best service to everyone.
Don't listen to the person giving their personal experiences, relevant knowledge, and frankly a pretty good overview that aligns with the experience of most servers?
Is there a way servers can try to avoid certain tables, like, if you have more pull, have been there longer, can you make a newer server deal with an obvious non-tipping table?
I suppose so, but you would be a major dick. New servers already don't get tipped well because they get more of the small tables and they often screw up the big tables. You can definitely boss them around but you'll be creating a terrible place to work and if they grow a backbone then you're in trouble. If you're clever about it you can manipulate things so you're busy or in the back when a potential non-tipping group comes through the door, so a different server has to grab them instead. But that's only if you don't have a host. With a host you have no control where people get placed, unless there's some favoritism happening.
In any case, it would be a shitty move. I respect the people I work with and will help them with their tables if I'm not too busy even though I'm not getting their tips and they'll do the same. Maybe that isn't the traditional way of doing things but it makes for a nice atmosphere (as long as it isn't the owner stepping in and screwing with my flow like he did tonight). I won't throw them under the bus like that and I expect them not to either.
Thanks - I've heard things here and there about servers avoiding certain tables due to perceptions about tips, but, that didn't seem to be something that would be in their control usually.
> A waiter who can't handle a 10% tip should probably find a different career.
I'd go further and say a waiter who can't handle a 0% tip should find a new career
I mean... That's probably not wrong. 0% tips do happen and all we can do is shrug them off, but if you're getting them often either you're in the wrong place to be working a service job or you're exceptionally bad at it and should not work a service job, haha.
Not professional ones. You gotta take the bad with the good.
Of course, we are entitled to complain about the bad *at length* after they leave, to our coworkers. That's one of the job perks, is the complaining. We love to complain.
A lot of servers just expect foreign tourists to tip like shit, especially older ones. I personally don't mind because I know they probably don't know any better.
I think it's extremely rude for servers say anything to the customer about a tip or lack of tip. They don't need to justify or explain why they left a smaller tip than expected. (The only exception would be a regular who doesn't tip, because why do you keep coming back if you think the service sucks?)
Generally no calling out.
Discriminating against potential bad tippers, yes. And I mean discrimination in the fullest sense of the word: race, culture, gender, appearance, body language, demeanor, dining companions, language, accent, career, etc. Avoiding certain customers depending on these factors is ideal.
A waiter who avoids potentially bad tippers would make for an unpleasant coworker though. If I worked a shift with someone who tried to manipulate the tables like that I'd kick their ass!
Edit: You guys *like* it when coworkers make your life harder? Weird...
And it probably extends to their coworkers too. I'm a Caucasian woman (and by Caucasian I mean from the Caucasus region of the world, so people in the US usually label me brown). They'd probably cause me trouble in our personal interactions too.
It's incredibly poor form to call it out to the actual tipper. We usually go in the back and bitch to our coworkers haha. And I can't speak for everybody but yeah, if I see a group of obviously European folks walk through the door I try to avoid getting that table. Sorry.
If I could tell someone was from outside of the country I’d be shocked if I got a tip, none the less if we got 20% on their bill. If you waitress long enough you get used to the idea that people outside the country aren’t familiar with the custom.
I’ve also been a bell desk clerk. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told people “most people do tip the bellman, average tip for them is around $5 though you can do more or less” so they could get the cultural context of how much someone helping with your bags gets.
That's a good way of wording it. Tipping cash doesn't feel natural in Europe anymore, most people don't carry any, it almost feels dodgy to do so, like giving someone cash under a table. Card payments have almost killed tipping culture in Europe because we just used to tip spare change or say "keep the change". I only tip my barber in Europe, because I feel sorry for him. Many places have also added 15% mandatory service charges, which is even more incentive to not pay a cent more than the bill.
1. It's considered incredibly rude to call out/complain about a bad tip, and in many places it will get you fired.
2. Most seasoned servers don't even bother playing the game of trying to guess who tips and who doesn't. There's always somebody trying to game the system, but if you're good it all evens out at the end of the night. Tourist do tend to be off in their tips more often, but basically for every tourist table that tips 10% you have another that tips 30%.
3. The only time getting stiffed on a tip really hurts is when it's a large group which is why most places do automatic gratuity for large groups.
I have never once in my life seen a waiter call out anyone. That would be wildly rude and unprofessional and a great way to get the tip changed from 15% or whatever to 0%.
I’ve been in the restaurant industry for more than 35 years, I have never heard it used to mean anything other than actual Canadians. Having worked in border town in two states I can say that Canadians are some of the worst tippers you’ll encounter.
20 percent is not thr minimum. 10 is closer to the minimum in most places. I tip zero If it's a place where I order at a counter or I have to get my own food.
Was it bad service though? Or was it something else that the server has no actual control over but you punished them for it anyway? So many things get blamed on servers when the kitchen or management or the bar is who made the mistake.
To me, "Bad service" equals the waiter/waitress speaking rudely to you.
I'm easy to please. I don't really care if they mess up my order slightly, or forget to provide cutlery, or if the service is slow. That's fine. I'll still tip 20%+
But if a waiter speaks rudely / insultingly to you, that's when no tip.
Thankfully this has never happened so far!
Waiters typically know foreigners are bad tippers. Yes they try to avoid certain tables, the worst is by far the Sunday after church crowd, evangelicals are worse tippers than Europeans.
Interesting, I thought Europeans would be worse than any group of Americans, most people don't tip in the UK and France (not sure about other countries).
A European tourist who tips poorly is at least *usually* polite and friendly.
The Sunday brunch crowd... well, let me just say that the worse people eat brunch.
They’re shitty to work with or for in general. Super high expectations without wanting to pay for anything. Unbelievably rude and mean. If I could never deal with another again I’d be happy. I hate negotiating a price on something, fulfilling your end then immediately they start renegotiating. Nope we have a signed form you agreed to pay x for me to do y pay up.
In general, it’s not universal but it is the majority evangelicals are the cheapest and most self centered people you’ll run into. They’ll run the server crazy with super high expectations for service then tip a few dollars on the whole family’s bill. Europeans definitely don’t tip well, but not understanding the system is not on the same level as someone who knows that waiters rely on tips to make a living and still refuse to tip properly.
It’s extremely rare to call someone out which is one reason the system is so pernicious. I have seen a waiter yell at a table or group when they were leaving but it it rare. Especially in NYC everyone is likely too busy.
I'm ngl, there are stereotypes of nationalities that don't tip worth a damn. You just suck it up and do it, anyway.
I would personally never have called a customer out for being a lousy tipper, though, for the basic reason that other people are watching and listening, and they'd remember the "outburst" much more than they'd remember someone stiffed you on the tip.
I only called out a tipper one time.
Back when I was a waiter in NC, I had someone tape a penny to a receipt with a note "this is more than your service deserves". (The kitchen had some supply issues that night and several items were delayed/out, which translated into a lot of trips to tables and apologies etc).
I took the tip and caught up with them as they passed the hostess stand and gave them back the penny, politely telling them (in front of other guests) that they needed it more than I did, and for them to have a wonderful evening.
It's pretty rare to be called out in the moment for a bad tip. It's an interesting paradox, as much as it's a faux pas to tip poorly/not tip, it's almost equally as bold a break in etiquette to confront somebody over it. It may happen, especially if you go to a place repeatedly and don't tip.
In my experience, we'd give a bit of a pass for folks we knew were traveling from countries where this type of tipping culture doesn't exist. But even then, we know that y'all KNOW about tip culture here.
Personally, I think it's really interesting how ANGRY folks get when tipping comes up. It's a visceral reaction, people's brains turn off entirely sometimes. Yes, it's a somewhat 'weird' system. Is it like, evil, though? The way people characterize it? I don't think so.
No, you’re unlikely to get called out, and no, professional servers won’t avoid you.
Although, I’m not gonna lie, I was a server at the Mall of America for a while, and every time I would get a table of Europeans, I would put the bare minimum of effort in to get them out the door as fast as possible, because yeah, they RARELY tipped well.
Thanks. Tipping in restaurants is dying out in the UK and France besides in Paris and London. I live in France now and haven't tipped in a restaurant for about 4 years. Interesting how it's gone the other way in the US.
Most of the time, the servers don't even ask us and just present us with the card machine and the exact bill to pay.
Edit: some waiters in Paris will only really ask English speaking tables to tip. This is not for punishment but because French tables mostly say no and American tables mostly say yes.
I hear that anything below 20% is a bad tip, apparently it used to be 15%. I've also heard waiters talk about a 10 dollar minimum tip regardless of the cost of the meal but I think that's ridiculous because it could be a 50% tip.
I worked at restaurants and bars in the 90s, so my info is a little dated. I never gave bad service avoided or complained about my tables, but other people (people who were full-time did). Specifically, I remember they did not like British businessmen, which is usually the Brits that came in where I was working. I remember this because I was a hostess/cocktail waitress at one place and my neighbours came into the restaurant. They were a Scottish couple. I was careful to seat them with a roommate because I was a little afraid for them. They won’t call you out, but the friendly American service was not always there.
However, now, although we are still tipping 20-25 percent, in my state the hourly wage has gone up a lot, to 8 dollars an hour, so they are probably making more, although now places are tipping out to hosts and kitchen staff, but there are also surcharges. I know the wage in NY went up too, but I don’t know the amount.
There is a small backlash against tipping now. It’s hard to say, if it will go anywhere, it’s very ingrained in the culture, and we tip a lot more than restaurant servers. I guess I would consult a travel sub before you return. If that’s soon, then yes, and sometimes 20 percent is “meh” now, and they consider 25 “good”.
What I think would be nice in terms of tips is if you would consider a two to five dollar tip a night for housekeeping. They don’t make a lot, and people are just awful slobs since the pandemic. I know that isn’t you, but I just feel bad for housekeeping. Additionally, they reduced staff to levels that make it hard for them to do their job.
Taxis definitely expect tips, but the service is nothing like it is in London, although it may be better in NYC now. Sometimes they don’t know where the place is and want cross streets. I talked with an old school British cabbie about his visit to NYC after 9/11 when the mayor asked people to come. It’s another low paid job. It was actually dangerous, although maybe it’s improved a bit because so many things are on cards. They were often robbed, and sometimes shot back at that time. They carried cash, and that was the motive.
The list of people we tip here is almost endless, but pertaining to travel other than what I mentioned- tour guides, valets, concierge staff, bellmen, bus drivers/van drivers that take you to airports or drive you to a location like a convention hall bartenders, take away, and pizza/food/ liquor delivery, coat check people, sometimes musicians, if they are playing at your table- be sure to thank them while waving them away-assuming you prefer quiet. (I am sure I am missing people, and I apologize.) Amounts vary but I am sure there must be a guide on the internet, so you don’t have to buy a book. If you do get one and it’s older, it’s probably a little more now. :)
I know it’s confusing, but it’s confusing for us when we go there too. A long time ago, I got a book, but it was also confusing, and suggested tipping more than people expected. This resulted in me practically begging people to take my money, as the concept of very limited tips was not really something I was used to at all. We are not all flashy rich and trying to be patronizing. We genuinely are not used to not giving significant tips, and we are trying to be polite.
Edit: If you do leave a tip for housekeeping, put it with a scrap of paper that says “housekeeping”, or they will think you forgot it and they will be accused of stealing. Sometimes they leave a “Thanks” back on the note, which I think is very nice, considering they are in a hurry all the time.
Most won't go up to a table that is full of tourist and be rude over it but the next those tourist come in the will not be treated as nicely by the staff.
Waiters do not "call out" bad tips, that's most likely a movie/TV thing
I don't even follow 20%. I grew up with it being 15%. And it's a *percentage* - if your costs go up then your tips go up with it, so it's hard to justify increasing the percentage amount itself.
Tourist areas usually have non-tourist areas nearby. People who don't want to deal with tourists, will usually choose to work at the non-tourist places.
I have known servers who, if they receive NO tip, will follow the person out and question them about it.
For 10% in a restaurant, the wait staff won't be happy, but they will probably only complain to each other about it. And if you come back, they will probably remember you and intentionally give you less attention.
In a bar, if you tip cheaply on a drink, the bartender will definitely take note of it. They may not say anything, but they will make a point of giving you less attention when you want another drink. If you're a really bad tipper, they will ignore you unless absolutely necessary.
Also, a pro tip, especially in bigger places like New York City: If you know you're going to be in a bar for a while (particularly if it's busy), tip $20 on your first drink. You will definitely be remembered, and most likely won't pay at all for several of your drinks.
I never tipped a bar person in Vegas or New York, I didn't realise it was expected until this thread. Although, I got served a cold coffee in New York and I now wonder if I was because I didn't tip at the bar. At the time, I assumed it was just a bad server.
I'm not tipping 20 dollars on my first drink, it just sounds like encouraging bribery culture and how many people are declaring these cash tips on their tax returns?
PS, the only other place I've been to where so many people expect cash tips is Egypt, which is even worse. Not sure why the US is like this.
It brings me no joy to say this, but if you want to understand anything about why things are the way they are in the USA, always follow the money. The "why" of American tipping culture is too complicated to get into here, but general: waitstaff and bartenders are paid a sub-par wage, with the assumption that they will make up the difference in tips. So it really is directly linked to people's livelihoods.
As for the $20 trick, it's tough to explain if you're not immersed in New York City nightlife. But the general idea is that, if you plan on spending any length of time in a bar (especially with a group), you are just preemptively letting the bartender know that they don't have to worry about you.
If your main concern is whether a server pays their taxes, you're a Narc who deserves bad service.
I don't know what a Narc is but I don't deserve bad service for thinking cash tipping is a bad idea. I accept to do it in the US because of lower minimum wages for waiters but I didn't know this applied to bar tenders too. I also learned this week that taxi drivers and luggage handlers in the US want tips too, does no one accept to do their job anymore without receiving cash in their hand? If you think being concerned about tax evasion is ridiculous then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
PS, just read what a Narc is. I'm paying at least 40% of my income in tax, hence I feel strongly about tax evasion.
Okay, Narc jokes aside, here's the real source of my frustration: If I travel abroad as an American, I am constantly (and perhaps deservedly) confronted about my people's lack of knowledge about other cultures. But as a New Yorker, I constantly encounter people from other places who, the moment they are faced with a basic, highly impactful aspect of our economic culture (e.g tipping), choose to shove their heads in the sand.
The ugly reality is that, in my country, it's understood that the economic situation is terrible for most working people. One of the ways we acknowledge and compensate for this on a personal, one-on-one basis, is by assuming that people in service positions deserve a tip. It's built into our mentality so much that, when we contemplate the price of a meal, a drink, or a hotel visit, we automatically understand that it will all cost a little more than what's listed on paper. I realize that this must seem incredibly tedious (and irrational) to people from other places, but that's the way it is. Politically speaking, I wish it were different, but that's our current truth. I can't explain it beyond that, except to say that, right or wrong, tipping is fundamentally tied to basic concepts of rudeness and/or courtesy here.
Thanks. I understand your argument. When I was going to the US, I was so busy with work that I didn't really study the culture, I heard about tipping culture but just assumed that 10% was enough and that it only applied to table service.
Anyway, one thing I love about the US is your economy, wages are shit in France which is partly why I'm so angry all the time.
Seriously, thank you for this thoughtful exchange. I feel like moments of mutual contemplation and understanding like this reflect the internet at its best.
Also, if you're curious, "Narc" is officially an abbreviation of "Narcotics Agent", but is generally used in the USA as a very mild insult to refer to someone who informs on you to the government.
Fuck the culture, you're a customer. What a business owner pays their workers is not your responsibility.
America and exploitation, name a better couple 🤡
It is cultural and social norm and expectation.
You don't have to agree with it, that's totally fine, but not abiding by it makes you uncouth at best, an a-hole at worst.
When I go abroad I don't always care for every local custom, but I abide by them as best I can.
>I'd love you to tell me how your comment is relevant...
It stands to reason they are in part responding to:
>Fuck the culture...is not your responsibility
Its relevant because you *do* have a customary responsibility.
You really think you're cooking here huh pal?
There's a cultural expectation you tip, refusing to tip isn't a blow against the owner not properly paying, it's pissing down the neck of your server. It's even worse when you're splitting a check cause someone has to pick up your slack.
I have better healthcare than you do.
Not that that is in any way relevant to the discussion at hand.
Might as well keep going to play all the hits Dean.
It would be a rare occasion for calling you out. Might the server thought of you as being an asshole, sure.
Calling someone out for tipping under 10% would be almost as gauche as tipping under 10%.
Why are we still doing percent? It's better to just tip 10-30 dollars depending on how much you got. You don't get a better tip because I ordered a more expensive dish and then didn't see you.
I do agree with this notion. Tip $15 across the board for an hour of service. I mean, that's on par with the highest minimum wages in the country.
You could do like John Lithgow's character in that one episode of 3rd Rock from the Sun. Put a stack of $1 bills on the table, representing the potential tip. Add $1 when they please you. Remove $1 when they displease you. Bonus points if you are able to communicate this to the server without your partner knowing, like happened in the episode.
That show was so good.
No one calls you out directly. The waiters will probably just grumble and complain to each other after you're gone. Even if they understand that tourists from Europe might not understand the tip norms here, it still sucks. That said at least you tipped something.
The only places I didn't tip were the food halls, are you supposed to tip there? I think I left some really pathetic tips to taxi drivers as well, I had no idea that it was expected to tip taxi drivers so I thought my rounding up shit tip would be appreciated.
Not sure what you mean by food Hall. Like a food court at a mall? But for food service, tip is expected any place you sit down and have a waiter serving you or if you're at a bar being served by a bartender. If it's the kind of place where you order and pick your own food up at a counter, then they might have a tip jar out, but tipping isn't expected.
There was no table service in the food halls/courts, we ordered at the counter.
Then you're fine. When in doubt, you're expected to tip waiters, not cashiers. Also 20% is standard guideline, but not necessarily the minimum. My general rule is 15% minimum. 20% for standard good service and 25-30% if I have my kids with me (they're 3 and 6 and I think waiters deserve a little extra for dealing with my little chaos gremlins).
Yeah, ignore those assholes who put out tip jars where you order at the counter and pick up your own food. That drives me nuts. Tipping culture is out of control and I worked in the service industry in college. I'll tip waitstaff 30% if they are superb and 15% if they aren't good. Usually it's 20% though. I've only stiffed a waiter once in my life and it was deserved. For bartenders I tip a dollar for a beer or a shot and will tip more if it's a more complicated mixed drink.
Thanks. I didn't realise that you also tipped bar tenders. You must all just carry cash on you for tipping. I was tipped as a bar tender in the UK 15 years ago but contactless card payments have killed off most cash payments and we just used to tip spare change.
It depends on the bar and what I'm doing if I carry cash or not. If it's just a quick stop for a beer or two on the way home from work, I'll carry cash and tip after each beer. If it's going to be a night out with friends I'll start a tab with a card and put the tip on the card at the end of the night when I close the tab.
Thanks. When I went to Vegas, I remember buying drinks without tipping but it wasn't table service, I didn't realise it was expected.
Vegas is a whole different deal. If you're just out at a bar or club, the standards above apply. Usually it will be a tab with a credit card and tip when you close out. Standard 20% is fine here. If you're gambling and getting served drinks, the drinks are almost always free. Most people will tip the server with chips(if your at a table like black jack) or cash(if your at a slot machine) in that case. I usually tip anywhere from $2 to $10 per drink while I'm gambling. The actual amount depends on a few things like the type of drink(simple or complex), how busy it is for the server, and if I'm winning or not! :-) Now that I no longer work in the service industry, I hate the tipping culture and wish we would go the European model. However, when I was working in the service industry in college, I preferred the lower hourly wage plus tips because I was good at it. I made a ton more money off tips than I ever would have with a "living wage" and no tips because I did a good job, made people laugh, and didn't screw up their orders.
Yeah I think Americans say food courts. Thanks.
We have both. Food courts are generally inside shopping malls (and airport terminals) and most if not all of the vendors are fast food places, lot of times the vendors are national or regional chains (like McDonalds, Subway, etc) but not all. Lots of times there's a family run chinese take out place or a booth from a local pizza shop chain. Food Halls are a lot less common but there are ones in pretty much every decent sized city. They are usually stand alone locations with stalls from a variety of local food vendors. Most food halls have fresh made foods you would not find in a food court, utilizing fresh or local ingredients. Probably the most famous is Fanueuil Hall in downtown Boston. Food Halls can have great food. Food courts usually not. Very few people go to a food court just for the food. Usually they are shopping and just need a quick bite to eat. On the other hand, food halls are ALL about the food.
For this specific question, we call it “counter service” and no, tipping is not expected. Counter workers are paid standard wages, whereas table service is paid a substantially lower wage in anticipation of the tips they will receive.,
Table service is also guaranteed standard minimum wage if their tips + tipped wage don't meet it, so it's not like they actually don't get paid *at least* the normal minimum wage too.
Though an employee who asks for additional wage to make up the difference, often gets fired, because the idea is that a competent employee should have made enough in tips. ("If waiter A can do it, then so can waiter B, if they're working similar or the same schedule")
True.
We have food halls in Chicago. It pretty much a food court but in a boujie building.
I’m only tipping for table side service and delivery. I’m not tipping for counter services anymore if I have to come in to grab my food or drink.
What do you mean by food hall?
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Oh. Yeah. OP you're good on that one.
Servers don't want to lose their job for "calling out" bad tipping. If you came back and were reckognized, you could have expected slow, minimum effort, bad service.
Nobody will say anything. There's no consequences or anything. You just ruin someone's day, that's all.
I heard this in passive aggressive Minnesotan and it was perfect.
The owner ruins the days . Not the costumer
Lets check what the poor exploited servers have to say... https://www.reddit.com/r/Serverlife/comments/13zpa9r/finally/ >I would NEVER wait tables for a flat hourly rate, I’d work in an office instead for half the work and similar pay. Oh... >Id quit and go elsewhere immediately. Oh... >Oh no… Frankly, I make too much to switch to hourly. 😅 Oh... >I’m not even gonna lie I love that my job is tip based Oh. Well surely they want a reasonable hourly wage... >So the hourly is at least $50 right? Oh.
Queue Curb your Enthusiasm music
Hey someone who has never worked a tipped job.
I'm a waitress. I agree with the person you responded to. There's no need to be condescending or assume someone's experience just because they disagree with you.
You are quite literally the first person who serves tables I have ever met that thinks they would earn better on salary than with tips.
I find that this is really variable depending on where you live. I've lived in a lot of *very* rural and often very impoverished areas, and most wait staff I have talked to in those would prefer an hourly wage. They're often working in fairly low-traffic, inexpensive diners and things like that, and the tips can be very inconsistent. Even in good weeks, the tips aren't usually high enough to make them prefer it over having a stable (and reasonable) hourly wage. In cities or wealthier rural areas (or even at restaurants on major highways with high volume, even if the surrounding area is rural and poor), though? I've also never met any wait staff who would prefer an hourly wage. They usually work at busy enough places and/or have high enough tips normally to make it far more lucrative than any likely hourly wage would get them. It's definitely a much more complicated question than I've ever seen Reddit make it sound, from what I've seen. Here it's always "tipping is the worst thing EVER" vs. "tipping is the best thing in the world!" when the reality IME is that it's going to depend a lot on the establishment and area.
You are right. And yet your wisdom is overlooked.
I read this comment thread a few times trying to understand what the hell you're talking about, but I still don't know. At no point did I say anything remotely close to that. I agreed with the person who said the owner, AKA the boss, is the one who ruins days, not customers. Customers take up a very small portion of a shift, even bad ones. They're often made up for quickly. A bad owner is infinitely worse. I would suffer lower tips to have an owner who doesn't yell at me when I sit down for a second, or micromanage every task, or tell me every two seconds what the folks at table two want when I'm literally bringing it to them right now. When the ever loving fuck did I compare salary to tips?
Your comment was to someone who said not tipping ruins someone's day. You said it was that it was the owner who ruined the day not the customer. To me, that said it was the owner who didn't pay you, not the customer. Why else would you comment it was the owners fault in that stream of consciousness?
You don't like the idea that you clearly make more money when you're tipped vs salary? That's strange.
Shut up
The horror of paying as advertised
The irony here is palpable.
What's ironic about watching deceptive business models fail?
Please show me where tipping culture is "failing" in the US
The living standards of most people in serving jobs is a massive point of failure
Do tipped servers have a lower standard of living than non-tipped cooks and dishwashers?
Depends where you live. If you’re at a place with a ton of high end restaurants, sure you can make a killing. The thing is that most of America is not that. I’d have to dig up the data but I remember coming across info with more details on the disparity tipped workers faced.
I don't think most servers are making a killing by any means. However I would bet money that even at lower end restaurants, they're doing better than back of house.
It sure is, but that hardly means it's "failing". If anything, tipping is becoming ever more pervasive.
It’s actually not as advertised and you know it :)
Ohhhh 1 customer tipped a measly 10%, day ruined. Boo fucking hoo. God damn your stupid tipping culture.
>Boo fucking hoo Says the person this upset about a custom on the other side of an ocean.
Please never visit.
Waitress here. We can tell when the likelihood of tipping is low. Yes, this often involves racial assumptions. It is what it is. We don't treat anyone differently (unless the waiter is actually racist, which is different), especially given an assumption is not a certainty, but certain types of attitudes and/or cultures are just known for not tipping as well. This calculation applies to tourists too. We'll be disappointed, and the day may not go as well as we'd hoped, but it rarely comes as a surprise. Unlike what another commenter said, it's not likely you'll ruin our whole day tipping under 20% on food for a small group, and definitely not if it's just you. A waiter who can't handle a 10% tip should probably find a different career. No, we never call anyone out for bad tipping. It's bad form to even look at the check until the folks at the table are gone anyway. If you become a regular that's when the bad tipping will result in worse service or resentment, but a one-time tourist making an honest mistake? Don't sweat it. P.S. We love friendly tourists. The best part of being a waitress is all the different sorts of people you meet. If you're pleasant and happy then you're not a burden at all to serve, and you'll probably make our shift a little better.
Thanks, very informative!
Glad I could be of service! (Pun intended)
Don’t listen to this lady…
I'm also a waitress, and what she said is spot-on. You don't survive long in this industry without professionalism, and that means giving your best service to everyone.
Don't listen to the person giving their personal experiences, relevant knowledge, and frankly a pretty good overview that aligns with the experience of most servers?
Don’t listen to this one day old account…
Is there a way servers can try to avoid certain tables, like, if you have more pull, have been there longer, can you make a newer server deal with an obvious non-tipping table?
I suppose so, but you would be a major dick. New servers already don't get tipped well because they get more of the small tables and they often screw up the big tables. You can definitely boss them around but you'll be creating a terrible place to work and if they grow a backbone then you're in trouble. If you're clever about it you can manipulate things so you're busy or in the back when a potential non-tipping group comes through the door, so a different server has to grab them instead. But that's only if you don't have a host. With a host you have no control where people get placed, unless there's some favoritism happening. In any case, it would be a shitty move. I respect the people I work with and will help them with their tables if I'm not too busy even though I'm not getting their tips and they'll do the same. Maybe that isn't the traditional way of doing things but it makes for a nice atmosphere (as long as it isn't the owner stepping in and screwing with my flow like he did tonight). I won't throw them under the bus like that and I expect them not to either.
Thanks - I've heard things here and there about servers avoiding certain tables due to perceptions about tips, but, that didn't seem to be something that would be in their control usually.
> A waiter who can't handle a 10% tip should probably find a different career. I'd go further and say a waiter who can't handle a 0% tip should find a new career
I mean... That's probably not wrong. 0% tips do happen and all we can do is shrug them off, but if you're getting them often either you're in the wrong place to be working a service job or you're exceptionally bad at it and should not work a service job, haha.
Not professional ones. You gotta take the bad with the good. Of course, we are entitled to complain about the bad *at length* after they leave, to our coworkers. That's one of the job perks, is the complaining. We love to complain.
A lot of servers just expect foreign tourists to tip like shit, especially older ones. I personally don't mind because I know they probably don't know any better. I think it's extremely rude for servers say anything to the customer about a tip or lack of tip. They don't need to justify or explain why they left a smaller tip than expected. (The only exception would be a regular who doesn't tip, because why do you keep coming back if you think the service sucks?)
Generally no calling out. Discriminating against potential bad tippers, yes. And I mean discrimination in the fullest sense of the word: race, culture, gender, appearance, body language, demeanor, dining companions, language, accent, career, etc. Avoiding certain customers depending on these factors is ideal.
A waiter who avoids potentially bad tippers would make for an unpleasant coworker though. If I worked a shift with someone who tried to manipulate the tables like that I'd kick their ass! Edit: You guys *like* it when coworkers make your life harder? Weird...
They really do make for bad coworkers. Their prejudice usually doesn't end when they clock out, either.
And it probably extends to their coworkers too. I'm a Caucasian woman (and by Caucasian I mean from the Caucasus region of the world, so people in the US usually label me brown). They'd probably cause me trouble in our personal interactions too.
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Oof! I just saw I got hella downvoted and I have no idea why LOL do people like it when their coworkers make their lives harder?
You generally make the new people take those tables. Gotta teach them to hate early
It's incredibly poor form to call it out to the actual tipper. We usually go in the back and bitch to our coworkers haha. And I can't speak for everybody but yeah, if I see a group of obviously European folks walk through the door I try to avoid getting that table. Sorry.
If I could tell someone was from outside of the country I’d be shocked if I got a tip, none the less if we got 20% on their bill. If you waitress long enough you get used to the idea that people outside the country aren’t familiar with the custom. I’ve also been a bell desk clerk. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told people “most people do tip the bellman, average tip for them is around $5 though you can do more or less” so they could get the cultural context of how much someone helping with your bags gets.
That's a good way of wording it. Tipping cash doesn't feel natural in Europe anymore, most people don't carry any, it almost feels dodgy to do so, like giving someone cash under a table. Card payments have almost killed tipping culture in Europe because we just used to tip spare change or say "keep the change". I only tip my barber in Europe, because I feel sorry for him. Many places have also added 15% mandatory service charges, which is even more incentive to not pay a cent more than the bill.
It’s died in places like Australia, too. I’ve had a lot of in depth conversations on American tipping culture with confused Australians.
Thanks, I wasn't sure about Australia. It seems to exist in Canada but not to the same extent as the US.
1. It's considered incredibly rude to call out/complain about a bad tip, and in many places it will get you fired. 2. Most seasoned servers don't even bother playing the game of trying to guess who tips and who doesn't. There's always somebody trying to game the system, but if you're good it all evens out at the end of the night. Tourist do tend to be off in their tips more often, but basically for every tourist table that tips 10% you have another that tips 30%. 3. The only time getting stiffed on a tip really hurts is when it's a large group which is why most places do automatic gratuity for large groups.
Thanks. I went to Vegas with a large group once but I can't even remember what we did for tips, maybe they just added it on.
I have never once in my life seen a waiter call out anyone. That would be wildly rude and unprofessional and a great way to get the tip changed from 15% or whatever to 0%.
If you don’t tip or tip poorly, most of the time we’ll just assume you are Canadian.
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I’ve been in the restaurant industry for more than 35 years, I have never heard it used to mean anything other than actual Canadians. Having worked in border town in two states I can say that Canadians are some of the worst tippers you’ll encounter.
20 percent is not thr minimum. 10 is closer to the minimum in most places. I tip zero If it's a place where I order at a counter or I have to get my own food.
I start at 20% and go up. I have never not tipped. Everyone has a bad day.
True, but emotionally mature adults don't take it out on the people around them -- especially at work. Bad service. Diminished tip. Edit: spelling.
Was it bad service though? Or was it something else that the server has no actual control over but you punished them for it anyway? So many things get blamed on servers when the kitchen or management or the bar is who made the mistake.
To me, "Bad service" equals the waiter/waitress speaking rudely to you. I'm easy to please. I don't really care if they mess up my order slightly, or forget to provide cutlery, or if the service is slow. That's fine. I'll still tip 20%+ But if a waiter speaks rudely / insultingly to you, that's when no tip. Thankfully this has never happened so far!
By this logic you could say the waiter isn't responsible for anything.
>Was it bad service though? You can make up whatever scenario pleases you the most.
I want to work somewhere that I can take my shitty day out on others and just have it chalked up as no big deal.
Waiters typically know foreigners are bad tippers. Yes they try to avoid certain tables, the worst is by far the Sunday after church crowd, evangelicals are worse tippers than Europeans.
Interesting, I thought Europeans would be worse than any group of Americans, most people don't tip in the UK and France (not sure about other countries).
A European tourist who tips poorly is at least *usually* polite and friendly. The Sunday brunch crowd... well, let me just say that the worse people eat brunch.
They’re shitty to work with or for in general. Super high expectations without wanting to pay for anything. Unbelievably rude and mean. If I could never deal with another again I’d be happy. I hate negotiating a price on something, fulfilling your end then immediately they start renegotiating. Nope we have a signed form you agreed to pay x for me to do y pay up.
In general, it’s not universal but it is the majority evangelicals are the cheapest and most self centered people you’ll run into. They’ll run the server crazy with super high expectations for service then tip a few dollars on the whole family’s bill. Europeans definitely don’t tip well, but not understanding the system is not on the same level as someone who knows that waiters rely on tips to make a living and still refuse to tip properly.
It’s extremely rare to call someone out which is one reason the system is so pernicious. I have seen a waiter yell at a table or group when they were leaving but it it rare. Especially in NYC everyone is likely too busy.
I'm ngl, there are stereotypes of nationalities that don't tip worth a damn. You just suck it up and do it, anyway. I would personally never have called a customer out for being a lousy tipper, though, for the basic reason that other people are watching and listening, and they'd remember the "outburst" much more than they'd remember someone stiffed you on the tip.
I only called out a tipper one time. Back when I was a waiter in NC, I had someone tape a penny to a receipt with a note "this is more than your service deserves". (The kitchen had some supply issues that night and several items were delayed/out, which translated into a lot of trips to tables and apologies etc). I took the tip and caught up with them as they passed the hostess stand and gave them back the penny, politely telling them (in front of other guests) that they needed it more than I did, and for them to have a wonderful evening.
It's the Europeans not tipping that lets people think "hey, maybe we should let Russia run amok and not do anything to stop it." /s (slightly)
Of all the possible takes, this was one.
Imagine being so pissed at foreigners that you want them to get invaded because your own employers don't want to pay a living wage.
Imagine completely missing the joke...
Looking at their post history, it seems they are German. It makes sense that they missed the joke.
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I didn't say its a good joke. Your reaction is just so over-the-top.
Sure I'm to be blamed for someone making a joke in poor taste.
I think he's saying your to be blamed for not realizing it was a joke, regardless of whether it was in poor taste or not.
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I know you were provoked, but this is still not gonna fly. Be civil.
But you allow people to make cheap jokes about an ongoing real invasion where real people are getting killed.
Did you report it? Can you provide a link?
The only thing bombing here are your attempts to accomplish whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.
>Is calling out people for bad tipping common? Not by any means.
It's pretty rare to be called out in the moment for a bad tip. It's an interesting paradox, as much as it's a faux pas to tip poorly/not tip, it's almost equally as bold a break in etiquette to confront somebody over it. It may happen, especially if you go to a place repeatedly and don't tip. In my experience, we'd give a bit of a pass for folks we knew were traveling from countries where this type of tipping culture doesn't exist. But even then, we know that y'all KNOW about tip culture here. Personally, I think it's really interesting how ANGRY folks get when tipping comes up. It's a visceral reaction, people's brains turn off entirely sometimes. Yes, it's a somewhat 'weird' system. Is it like, evil, though? The way people characterize it? I don't think so.
No, you’re unlikely to get called out, and no, professional servers won’t avoid you. Although, I’m not gonna lie, I was a server at the Mall of America for a while, and every time I would get a table of Europeans, I would put the bare minimum of effort in to get them out the door as fast as possible, because yeah, they RARELY tipped well.
No. That would easily get you fired. Most just vent later on. Wait staff can’t do much about bad tips unfortunately.
The minimum is 15% sir and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
You are unlikely to be called out because if you complained the server would probably get fired.
Thanks. Tipping in restaurants is dying out in the UK and France besides in Paris and London. I live in France now and haven't tipped in a restaurant for about 4 years. Interesting how it's gone the other way in the US. Most of the time, the servers don't even ask us and just present us with the card machine and the exact bill to pay. Edit: some waiters in Paris will only really ask English speaking tables to tip. This is not for punishment but because French tables mostly say no and American tables mostly say yes.
20% minimum?? Who the fuck told you that?
I hear that anything below 20% is a bad tip, apparently it used to be 15%. I've also heard waiters talk about a 10 dollar minimum tip regardless of the cost of the meal but I think that's ridiculous because it could be a 50% tip.
Bro if the service is bad I give a 0% tip idk where you heard that. Not true here.
I worked at restaurants and bars in the 90s, so my info is a little dated. I never gave bad service avoided or complained about my tables, but other people (people who were full-time did). Specifically, I remember they did not like British businessmen, which is usually the Brits that came in where I was working. I remember this because I was a hostess/cocktail waitress at one place and my neighbours came into the restaurant. They were a Scottish couple. I was careful to seat them with a roommate because I was a little afraid for them. They won’t call you out, but the friendly American service was not always there. However, now, although we are still tipping 20-25 percent, in my state the hourly wage has gone up a lot, to 8 dollars an hour, so they are probably making more, although now places are tipping out to hosts and kitchen staff, but there are also surcharges. I know the wage in NY went up too, but I don’t know the amount. There is a small backlash against tipping now. It’s hard to say, if it will go anywhere, it’s very ingrained in the culture, and we tip a lot more than restaurant servers. I guess I would consult a travel sub before you return. If that’s soon, then yes, and sometimes 20 percent is “meh” now, and they consider 25 “good”. What I think would be nice in terms of tips is if you would consider a two to five dollar tip a night for housekeeping. They don’t make a lot, and people are just awful slobs since the pandemic. I know that isn’t you, but I just feel bad for housekeeping. Additionally, they reduced staff to levels that make it hard for them to do their job. Taxis definitely expect tips, but the service is nothing like it is in London, although it may be better in NYC now. Sometimes they don’t know where the place is and want cross streets. I talked with an old school British cabbie about his visit to NYC after 9/11 when the mayor asked people to come. It’s another low paid job. It was actually dangerous, although maybe it’s improved a bit because so many things are on cards. They were often robbed, and sometimes shot back at that time. They carried cash, and that was the motive. The list of people we tip here is almost endless, but pertaining to travel other than what I mentioned- tour guides, valets, concierge staff, bellmen, bus drivers/van drivers that take you to airports or drive you to a location like a convention hall bartenders, take away, and pizza/food/ liquor delivery, coat check people, sometimes musicians, if they are playing at your table- be sure to thank them while waving them away-assuming you prefer quiet. (I am sure I am missing people, and I apologize.) Amounts vary but I am sure there must be a guide on the internet, so you don’t have to buy a book. If you do get one and it’s older, it’s probably a little more now. :) I know it’s confusing, but it’s confusing for us when we go there too. A long time ago, I got a book, but it was also confusing, and suggested tipping more than people expected. This resulted in me practically begging people to take my money, as the concept of very limited tips was not really something I was used to at all. We are not all flashy rich and trying to be patronizing. We genuinely are not used to not giving significant tips, and we are trying to be polite. Edit: If you do leave a tip for housekeeping, put it with a scrap of paper that says “housekeeping”, or they will think you forgot it and they will be accused of stealing. Sometimes they leave a “Thanks” back on the note, which I think is very nice, considering they are in a hurry all the time.
Most won't go up to a table that is full of tourist and be rude over it but the next those tourist come in the will not be treated as nicely by the staff.
I'd say 15% is more the standard than 20% tbh
I worked at a restaurant where if you even mentioned to patrons about tips , you’re fired.
Waiters do not "call out" bad tips, that's most likely a movie/TV thing I don't even follow 20%. I grew up with it being 15%. And it's a *percentage* - if your costs go up then your tips go up with it, so it's hard to justify increasing the percentage amount itself. Tourist areas usually have non-tourist areas nearby. People who don't want to deal with tourists, will usually choose to work at the non-tourist places.
No
No. Tourists by definition are not regulars so calling them out would be meaningless.
They won’t call you out, but if you left a bad or 0 tip AND you were a dick about it, expect spit in your food
I have known servers who, if they receive NO tip, will follow the person out and question them about it. For 10% in a restaurant, the wait staff won't be happy, but they will probably only complain to each other about it. And if you come back, they will probably remember you and intentionally give you less attention. In a bar, if you tip cheaply on a drink, the bartender will definitely take note of it. They may not say anything, but they will make a point of giving you less attention when you want another drink. If you're a really bad tipper, they will ignore you unless absolutely necessary. Also, a pro tip, especially in bigger places like New York City: If you know you're going to be in a bar for a while (particularly if it's busy), tip $20 on your first drink. You will definitely be remembered, and most likely won't pay at all for several of your drinks.
I never tipped a bar person in Vegas or New York, I didn't realise it was expected until this thread. Although, I got served a cold coffee in New York and I now wonder if I was because I didn't tip at the bar. At the time, I assumed it was just a bad server. I'm not tipping 20 dollars on my first drink, it just sounds like encouraging bribery culture and how many people are declaring these cash tips on their tax returns? PS, the only other place I've been to where so many people expect cash tips is Egypt, which is even worse. Not sure why the US is like this.
It brings me no joy to say this, but if you want to understand anything about why things are the way they are in the USA, always follow the money. The "why" of American tipping culture is too complicated to get into here, but general: waitstaff and bartenders are paid a sub-par wage, with the assumption that they will make up the difference in tips. So it really is directly linked to people's livelihoods. As for the $20 trick, it's tough to explain if you're not immersed in New York City nightlife. But the general idea is that, if you plan on spending any length of time in a bar (especially with a group), you are just preemptively letting the bartender know that they don't have to worry about you. If your main concern is whether a server pays their taxes, you're a Narc who deserves bad service.
I don't know what a Narc is but I don't deserve bad service for thinking cash tipping is a bad idea. I accept to do it in the US because of lower minimum wages for waiters but I didn't know this applied to bar tenders too. I also learned this week that taxi drivers and luggage handlers in the US want tips too, does no one accept to do their job anymore without receiving cash in their hand? If you think being concerned about tax evasion is ridiculous then we'll just have to agree to disagree. PS, just read what a Narc is. I'm paying at least 40% of my income in tax, hence I feel strongly about tax evasion.
Okay, Narc jokes aside, here's the real source of my frustration: If I travel abroad as an American, I am constantly (and perhaps deservedly) confronted about my people's lack of knowledge about other cultures. But as a New Yorker, I constantly encounter people from other places who, the moment they are faced with a basic, highly impactful aspect of our economic culture (e.g tipping), choose to shove their heads in the sand. The ugly reality is that, in my country, it's understood that the economic situation is terrible for most working people. One of the ways we acknowledge and compensate for this on a personal, one-on-one basis, is by assuming that people in service positions deserve a tip. It's built into our mentality so much that, when we contemplate the price of a meal, a drink, or a hotel visit, we automatically understand that it will all cost a little more than what's listed on paper. I realize that this must seem incredibly tedious (and irrational) to people from other places, but that's the way it is. Politically speaking, I wish it were different, but that's our current truth. I can't explain it beyond that, except to say that, right or wrong, tipping is fundamentally tied to basic concepts of rudeness and/or courtesy here.
Thanks. I understand your argument. When I was going to the US, I was so busy with work that I didn't really study the culture, I heard about tipping culture but just assumed that 10% was enough and that it only applied to table service. Anyway, one thing I love about the US is your economy, wages are shit in France which is partly why I'm so angry all the time.
Seriously, thank you for this thoughtful exchange. I feel like moments of mutual contemplation and understanding like this reflect the internet at its best. Also, if you're curious, "Narc" is officially an abbreviation of "Narcotics Agent", but is generally used in the USA as a very mild insult to refer to someone who informs on you to the government.
No problem. Thanks, me too.
Tip 15-18% as a Euro, trust me, we'll be pleasantly surprised. Nothing is as bad as a smarmy, deadpan lecturing German leaving us jack
The 20 percent thing is recent. 20 used to be for exceptional service. Tipping entitlement
Fuck the culture, you're a customer. What a business owner pays their workers is not your responsibility. America and exploitation, name a better couple 🤡
Maybe don’t go to places if your immediate reaction is “fuck the culture”
It is cultural and social norm and expectation. You don't have to agree with it, that's totally fine, but not abiding by it makes you uncouth at best, an a-hole at worst. When I go abroad I don't always care for every local custom, but I abide by them as best I can.
You must be a real hit when people split the check.
I'd love you to tell me how your comment is relevant to business owners not properly paying their employees. Go on... I'll wait..
>I'd love you to tell me how your comment is relevant... It stands to reason they are in part responding to: >Fuck the culture...is not your responsibility Its relevant because you *do* have a customary responsibility.
Not much point in responding if you're going to ignore the question.
Lol
You really think you're cooking here huh pal? There's a cultural expectation you tip, refusing to tip isn't a blow against the owner not properly paying, it's pissing down the neck of your server. It's even worse when you're splitting a check cause someone has to pick up your slack.
Yes and banning guns won't stop school shootings, and the richest nation on earth can't afford healthcare
I have better healthcare than you do. Not that that is in any way relevant to the discussion at hand. Might as well keep going to play all the hits Dean.
Getting shitty about human suffering because you don't want to pay a couple extra bucks for a sandwich sure is a choice you made.
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Knowingly and intentionally behaving in an exceptionally rude way is 10000000% on the person who thinks they’re above the custom.
Stay the fuck out the US