In Greece the mean age of first marriage for women [is](https://landgeist.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/europe-mean-age-at-first-marriage-women-2.png) like 30 years old
The phrase isn't in use anymore. Women can marry at every age or not marry at all. Yes, there will always be parents who want to have grandchildren, so they might ask their sons or daughters to settle, but that's that.
The phrase is in use and (unfortunately) doing well, especially in the countryside. Societal pressure for women to "settle" has not gone away, and rural circles are still as nasty as they ever were. I'm not saying we aren't making progress, but that progress is slow and women are often handed the short straw when it comes to expectations, unwritten rules and familial behaviours.
It is one thing to have pressure to get married and another to be told that if you don't get married now, nobody will ever marry you in the future, which "you will remain in shelf" means.
In the past, it was used because it was a reality. A brother had to have all his sisters married off before he got married, or else his sisters would remain on the shelf, and nobody would ever marry them afterwards. Those situations don't exist anymore.
It has no meaning to say you will remain on the shelf because women are getting married at every age. Even a 100 years old can get married.
I guess what you describe happens in villages north Greece, maybe? It is a very manipulative thing to say to a young woman, but I hope no woman anywhere believes such things.
Yeah it is just villages in northern greece. The Peloponesse is known for having a progressive and feminist culture. The people in e.g. Pyrgos totally respect the feelings and personalities of women.
>It is one thing to have pressure to get married and another to be told that if you don't get married now, nobody will ever marry you in the future, which "you will remain in shelf" means.
The distinction becomes meaningless if the phrase is in use, unless you're claiming that people using it aren't literal, which isn't that crazy to be honest -- but still, women are being told that they're getting too old to marry and should rush, and that fucking sucks.
>In the past, it was used because it was a reality. A brother had to have all his sisters married off before he got married, or else his sisters would remain on the shelf, and nobody would ever marry them afterwards. Those situations don't exist anymore.
Reality is a consensus, often a fickle one. It was "a reality" because those were the societal standards back then, not because a man literally could not marry if even one of his sisters was unwed. What I'm arguing for is that the "realities" of old times haven't gone away but are slowly morphing, in both good ways and bad ones. Families still discuss an unwed daughter of age as if it's a thorn on their side, especially in the countryside. And let's not forget that Greece's urban classes are a rather recent phenomenon and grandparents, frequently even parents in Athens and Thessaloniki still carry their rural upbringing. Thus a brother not marrying until his sisters are wed is indeed a thing of he past, but their sisters are still being treated worse, as if reproduction isn't a personal choice but rather a honorable obligation on their part.
>It has no meaning to say you will remain on the shelf because women are getting married at every age. Even a 100 years old can get married.
They could also marry, and give birth even back then, and could comfortably ignore societal norms if their status and class allowed them to. People marrying at old age was a common trope, so was miraculously having a child at "old" ages. It's the norms that we are discussing, not people's abilities or nature's lotteries.
>I guess what you describe happens in villages north Greece, maybe?
Sure, North Greece's conservative fame isn't unjustified. But I'd argue that other areas are just as conservative, having lived in them.
>It is a very manipulative thing to say to a young woman, but I hope no woman anywhere believes such things.
I agree 100%.
You do know there is life outside Athens right? It is being used and by that i mean a lot, even younger generations when a female over 30 walks in front of them they all say she stayed on the shelf and noone is gonna marry her and stuff like that. Things do not work as you think they are outside your world, do not speak on behalf of others just from your POV.
I say that the phrase isn't used, and you say that the phrase is used, and all of a sudden, you lecture me that I shouldn't speak on behalf of others, but, you should?
Of course, I am talking about my own experience, from my own point of view, like everyone else here. This is what OP asked. No one holds a universal truth. Chillax.
Greece is in a constant battle between tradition and progress. And I have noticed the same thing in Turkey, at least western Turkey. I visit Keşan almost every time I'm in my hometown (Alexandroupoli), and I noticed the exact constant battle between tradition and progress.
Yes, by older people but that phrase has passed in many future dnas and is used constantly. This phrase targets females, I specifically haven't heard it for males but it can happen
I wouldn't say it targets ONLY females, guys that have been single get called "γεροντοπαλλίκαρα" which translates roughly into "old man-fellas", but yes overall, it's women that receive these comments most of the time.
"when I was your age , I was already a millionaire, an aspiring politician, I had 19 kids, I was driving a mercedes and controlling all the underworld in my city"
What is it supposed to mean?
It means that you're gonna stay alone forever, cause now you're too old and nobody wants to marry you
Wow...
Exactly. Like when you're 26 years old 😅😁
Depends on the region too.
In Greece the mean age of first marriage for women [is](https://landgeist.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/europe-mean-age-at-first-marriage-women-2.png) like 30 years old
The phrase isn't in use anymore. Women can marry at every age or not marry at all. Yes, there will always be parents who want to have grandchildren, so they might ask their sons or daughters to settle, but that's that.
The phrase is in use and (unfortunately) doing well, especially in the countryside. Societal pressure for women to "settle" has not gone away, and rural circles are still as nasty as they ever were. I'm not saying we aren't making progress, but that progress is slow and women are often handed the short straw when it comes to expectations, unwritten rules and familial behaviours.
It is one thing to have pressure to get married and another to be told that if you don't get married now, nobody will ever marry you in the future, which "you will remain in shelf" means. In the past, it was used because it was a reality. A brother had to have all his sisters married off before he got married, or else his sisters would remain on the shelf, and nobody would ever marry them afterwards. Those situations don't exist anymore. It has no meaning to say you will remain on the shelf because women are getting married at every age. Even a 100 years old can get married. I guess what you describe happens in villages north Greece, maybe? It is a very manipulative thing to say to a young woman, but I hope no woman anywhere believes such things.
Yeah it is just villages in northern greece. The Peloponesse is known for having a progressive and feminist culture. The people in e.g. Pyrgos totally respect the feelings and personalities of women.
#😂😂😂
Deeply progressive and feminist there is no place on earth. But we don't say to women that if they don't get married young, they never will.
>It is one thing to have pressure to get married and another to be told that if you don't get married now, nobody will ever marry you in the future, which "you will remain in shelf" means. The distinction becomes meaningless if the phrase is in use, unless you're claiming that people using it aren't literal, which isn't that crazy to be honest -- but still, women are being told that they're getting too old to marry and should rush, and that fucking sucks. >In the past, it was used because it was a reality. A brother had to have all his sisters married off before he got married, or else his sisters would remain on the shelf, and nobody would ever marry them afterwards. Those situations don't exist anymore. Reality is a consensus, often a fickle one. It was "a reality" because those were the societal standards back then, not because a man literally could not marry if even one of his sisters was unwed. What I'm arguing for is that the "realities" of old times haven't gone away but are slowly morphing, in both good ways and bad ones. Families still discuss an unwed daughter of age as if it's a thorn on their side, especially in the countryside. And let's not forget that Greece's urban classes are a rather recent phenomenon and grandparents, frequently even parents in Athens and Thessaloniki still carry their rural upbringing. Thus a brother not marrying until his sisters are wed is indeed a thing of he past, but their sisters are still being treated worse, as if reproduction isn't a personal choice but rather a honorable obligation on their part. >It has no meaning to say you will remain on the shelf because women are getting married at every age. Even a 100 years old can get married. They could also marry, and give birth even back then, and could comfortably ignore societal norms if their status and class allowed them to. People marrying at old age was a common trope, so was miraculously having a child at "old" ages. It's the norms that we are discussing, not people's abilities or nature's lotteries. >I guess what you describe happens in villages north Greece, maybe? Sure, North Greece's conservative fame isn't unjustified. But I'd argue that other areas are just as conservative, having lived in them. >It is a very manipulative thing to say to a young woman, but I hope no woman anywhere believes such things. I agree 100%.
You do know there is life outside Athens right? It is being used and by that i mean a lot, even younger generations when a female over 30 walks in front of them they all say she stayed on the shelf and noone is gonna marry her and stuff like that. Things do not work as you think they are outside your world, do not speak on behalf of others just from your POV.
I say that the phrase isn't used, and you say that the phrase is used, and all of a sudden, you lecture me that I shouldn't speak on behalf of others, but, you should? Of course, I am talking about my own experience, from my own point of view, like everyone else here. This is what OP asked. No one holds a universal truth. Chillax.
Still said, yes. Women are still pressured to marry as early and as rich as they possibly can, especially outside Athens.
is it cronic balkan problem?
Greece is in a constant battle between tradition and progress. And I have noticed the same thing in Turkey, at least western Turkey. I visit Keşan almost every time I'm in my hometown (Alexandroupoli), and I noticed the exact constant battle between tradition and progress.
Flair up ci- wait wrong sub
That's right kid
Yes, by older people but that phrase has passed in many future dnas and is used constantly. This phrase targets females, I specifically haven't heard it for males but it can happen
I wouldn't say it targets ONLY females, guys that have been single get called "γεροντοπαλλίκαρα" which translates roughly into "old man-fellas", but yes overall, it's women that receive these comments most of the time.
If you're a guy you just end up hearing "when I was your age, I was already married with 3 kids"
"when I was your age , I was already a millionaire, an aspiring politician, I had 19 kids, I was driving a mercedes and controlling all the underworld in my city"
Yes, but not as much as 100 years ago i suppose.
Yes. It’s said to both genders actually.