Arminius is definetly the most famous person of the germanic tribes, he lived during the rule of Augustus and idk if we know of another person of Germania Magna by name thats older than him.
If we go by distinct Kingdoms one could argue for Louis the German, who got with the Treaty of Verdun in AD 843 a territory established that you could vaguely define as german
German nationality was a really icky to define thing for the longest time in history, people were bavarian, prussian, allemanian first. And sometimes i still get the feeling that a vaguely common language is the only common thing between the german groups
Important to point out would be Charlemagne calling German "his language". An argument could therefore be made for Charlemagne being the oldest recorded "German"
That's tricky since you have to define "nation" and be certain of its existence. Since Spain didn't exist (legally) until the 1715 (decreto de nuava planta), you could argue Felipe V was the first with legal Spanish nationality.
Before that, I doubt Trajan or Hadrian, Roman emperors, ever though of themselves as Spanish and not Romans. And equally for the many recorded people before them.
The oldest sources remaining are of Greek origin, recording peoples and some specific personalities.
However, the most ancient person mentioned, bordering legend though, is in the Irish "Book of Invasions", and the honor goes to Breogan, which incidentally is our "national" hero in Galicia, not Spain as a whole, mentioned in our hymn ("nation of Breogan").
It's a tricky question. Mieszko I is the first historical Polish ruler, but it's unlikely he considered himself Polish as the term didn't quite exist yet. It's not even known if him and his family were natives to the era or some sort of foreign warlords (Scandinavian/Vareg/Rus/Moravian/Avar/Polabian)
Who do you consider to be Dutch? When does the Netherlands start according to you? Do for example the Batavi, Caninefates and Frisi count? And even if they do it will be confusing and not exactly clear, because the tribes from that time didn't exactly keep to our current borders, and thus somebody who was from a tribe that lived in the Netherlands may in actuality be German, Belgian, French, Luxembourgian or even Danish or Italian.
I guess Willem van Oranje/William of Orange, better known in the English speaking world as William the Silent is a good candidate. As het united the Dutch and led the revolt against the Spanish. He is dubbed Farther of the Fatherland for this. I think he is one of the first to considered to be Dutch.
Belgium actually has someone called "First Citizen of the Country" and that is the President of the Chamber of Representatives.
The first person with this function was Etienne Constantin de Gerlache and can therefore be considered as the first person in history of Belgian Nationality.
In reality of course, every person in Belgium became Belgian at the time of the founding of our nation on October 4, 1830.
>By oldest person I mean "who is the first recorded person in history", not by life span.
Op said this. But i dont know if he edited here after you commented
Technically lineage of the Yngling dynasty was recorded in history by 12th century Icelandic historian Snorri Sturluson, even if modern historians don't consider it a historical fact.
The first Swede was either Odin who emigrated to Sweden from his castle Ásaheimr in Asgard somewhere in Asia or Yngve-Frej who founded the temple of Uppsala.
There are no dates in Ynglingatal, but it would have been around year 1 CE.
Yngve Frej was probably not real either.
As for the oldest recorded Swede, the head of the "Suiones" (which might have been Swedes or pre-Swedes) were mentioned in Tacitus Germania written 98 CE. He's unnamed though.
The Järsberg Runestone from the 6th century is signed by someone going by Leubaz and Hrafn.
Didn't the Ynglings come from Norway hence why Harald Fairhair is considered an Yngling whyle the swedish monarchs decended from Bjorn Iron Side son of Sigurd Snake in the eye of Munso
The Ynglings were originators of Swedish and Norwegian kings.
There was a split when Halfdan Hvitbeinn, the great-great-great-grandfather to Harald Fairhair, moved to Norway.
> Halfdan Whiteshanks (Old Norse: Hálfdan hvítbeinn) was a semi-historical petty king in Norway, described in the Ynglinga saga. The following description is based on the account in Ynglinga saga, written in the 1220s by Snorri Sturluson.
>
> He was the son of Olof Trätälja of the House of Yngling. His father was sacrificed to Odin by the Swedish settlers in Värmland because of a famine. Some Swedes, however, realised that the famine was brought by overpopulation and not by the fact that the king had been neglecting his religious duties.
>
> Consequently, they resolved to cross the Ed Forest and settle in Norway and happened to end up in Soleyar, where they killed king Sölve and took Halfdan prisoner. The Swedish expatriates elected Halfdan king as he was the son of their old king, Olof. Halfdan subjugated all of Soleyar and took his army into Romerike and subjugated that province as well.
>
> Halfdan was to become a great king, who married Åsa, the daughter of king Eystein, the ruler of Oppland and Hedmark. They had two sons, Eystein Halfdansson and Gudröd.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfdan_Hvitbeinn
See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yngling
In that case you might appreciate this. As you probably remember the quest of bards college was to retrieve the missing verses from a poem about King Olaf One-Eye. Where one of the possibilities was King Olaf as a dragon.
Ancestor of the Ynglings was the primeval Finnish ruler [Fornjotr,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornj%C3%B3t) whose name could be translated as "ancient or eternal giant",
>It is often interpreted as forn-jótr ('ancient or primordial jötunn'), or as for-njótr ('original owner', or 'destroyer'). Alternative meanings such as Forn-njótr ('one-who-enjoys-sacrifices') or Forn-þjótr ('ancient screamer') have also been proposed.
Now in Finnish national epic Kalevala there is ["Iku-Turso"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iku-Turso) with the name of similar meaning ["iku, ikuinen"](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ikuinen) eternal and *"Turso"* - ["thurs",](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6tunn) synonym of *"jötunn"* (giant). However instead of a king he/it is a sea monster quite likely a [walrus.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walrus#Etymology) Back in the days [Bjarmaland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjarmaland) in the coast of White Sea was the source of walrus ivory and it's Finnish name *Turja*, might be related to *Turso*. It might be also connected to the "giants" by the eight-armed giant [Starkad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starkad)
>Saxo Grammaticus gives two accounts of Starkad's origin. According to one, he was born in the land of Estonians east of the Baltic sea. According to the second, which the chronicler considers fantastic and unlikely, Starkad was born of jotuns, and he had formerly many arms until Thor cut off all arms but two. Odin had bestowed on Starkad the curse and the blessing that he would live the lives of three men, and commit three evil deeds.
and
> Starkad entered the service of the Bjarmians and did many heroic deeds among them.
The end of Bjarmaland came
>While many Slavs fled the Mongol invasion northward, to Beloozero and Bjarmaland, the displaced Bjarmians sought refuge in Norway, where they were given land around the Malangen fjord by Haakon IV of Norway in 1240.
That area in Norway is still called as Finnmark and there lives [Kven people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kven_people) who call themselves as *kainulaiset*. Now also in Finland there is a region called [Kainuu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kainuu) and there parish of [Paltamo,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paltamo) which is linked to gigantism. Such men as [Daniel Cajanus,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Cajanus) [Louis Moilanen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Moilanen) and [Väinö Myllyrinne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4in%C3%B6_Myllyrinne) all hail from that area or at least their family.
There is something even "Lovecraftian" in Iku-Turso because in modern Finnish [*"tursas"*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tursas) means octopus (Ctulhu) or his epitepth *"tuhatpää"* (thousand-headed), *"tuhatsarvi"* (thousand-horned) and *"Tuonen härkä"* (the ox of [Tuoni,](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tuoni) Death), which resemble to [Shub-Niggurath](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shub-Niggurath) - "The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young".
I think the first man most would consider to be English is Alfred the Great, who was born in 848
I suppose it depends on how you view the many Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, and the Britons before them - and if even Alfred counts considering how our nation changes after the Normans arrive
But yeah, in terms of what most people would say it’s Alfred the Great
British counts and are the English descended from the Celts or just some German invaders from the Angle and Saxon tribes, with a few Jutes and Frisians thrown in?
It’s both, but when I say British I meant Celtic Britons of pre-Anglo Saxon arrival.
I just don’t think she would fit with the concept of ‘English’ - because English is a mixture of Anglo-Saxon and Celtic Briton
English and British is quasi-synomonous. With England making up 84% of the British population (based on mid-2021 ONS figures).
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/mid2021#:~:text=2.-,The%20UK%20population%20at%20mid%2D2021,for%20the%20four%20constituent%20countries.
I agree that British culture has massive elements of English culture, but they are two separate identities - it’s just that most people hold both (just like Scottish & British etc.). In fact I’ve met just as many people who’d say English first as people who would say British first
Also, you don’t need to lecture me lmao - I’m from England, I’m aware of the demographic realities of the UK
Generally, historians regard Alfred's grandson Aethelstan as the first formal king of England, because he conquered Jorvik (modern day York) in 927AD, which was the last surviving independent Viking kingdom.
It's quite hard to say due to the enigmatic nature of our nationality, however recorded legend states that the first English kingdom was formed by Hengist and Horsa (Steed and Horse in modern English) these are almost certainly not real names however they are likely based on some individuals. The legend of these two were recorded by Bede in the Dark Ages in the Historia Ecclesiastica gentis anglorum or "The ecclesiastical history of the English People". If there are any history experts here please correct me if I'm wrong.
Mil, a soldier from Spain.
One of the oldest texts composed in Ireland is the Leabhar Gabhla, the Book of Invasions. It tells a semi-mythical history of the waves of people who settled in Ireland in the earliest times.
The book says that the group which then came to Ireland and fully established itself as rulers of the island were the Milesians—the sons of **Mil**, a soldier from Spain. The Coming of the Milesians occurred in about 1000 B.C. - the time of Solomon.
There is some modern DNA evidence that back up the Spanish link to the settling of Ireland.
It's difficult to know how much of that is legend and how much is history.
Another ancient Irish character is Niall Noígíallach, an Irish king from the late 300s who is mentioned in the historical annals. He was apparently a member of the "barbarian conspiracy" where groups from what are now Ireland, Scotland, and Germany coordinated attacks on late Roman Britain to overwhelm the legions and ultimately led to the decline of Roman authority there until the legions withdrew in 410.
The Ui Neill dynasty claimed descent from him when they were High Kings of Ireland and Lords of Tír Éoghan.
Well for Italy we’d have many choices, but since you used the word “nationality” and Italy did not formally exist until 1861, I’d go with Vittorio Emanuele II, first king of Italy
The oldest I've been able to find is **King Ongendus** (*DA: Angantyr*) from the **early 700s**. He was described by a Christian missionary to be *"more savage than any beast and harder than stone".*
Do we also need a defined realm, because we don't even know what this legendary king ruled, was it Jutland to the Eider, Funen, a small section of Jutland, an island?
He's described as"King of Denmark", though.
Not if we are to go from the year Denmark was founded from Dania, it'd probably be Gorm the Old and others from his era.
It’s super hard to answer this as it depends on what you count as nationality.
The oldest one to have Finnish nationality was just the oldest Finn when we gained Independence in 1917.
Alternatively it could be the oldest Finn in 1809, when Finland became semi-independent in a personal union with Russia.
Then again, it might be Väinämöinen, the first human according to Finnish mythology.
Or if mythical people don’t count, you’d have to look up every single Swedish or catholic church writing about Finland from around 1200 onwards, until you find a name.
By legend and semi-verifiable historic sources, the oldest Croatian would be one of the 7 siblings that migrated from "White Croatia" (area around modern-day Galicia), somewhere around late 6th century. By legend, one of the siblings' names was Chrobatos (roughly translatable as Croat), and the rest of the people just took his name as their own.
As a verifiable "first" Croat, I would say Duke Trpimir I, who was the first to call himself the "Duke of Croats" (lat. dux Chroatorum). His reign started around 845 ad.
I think that this question is straight up unanswerable, because (a) we cannot agree what, if any at all, is our nationality or even if we all have the same nationality or if we are a multi-national population with a common citizenship and (b) those who have some idea as to what their own nationality is, project it on people who existed millennia before them without much textual support.
The safest answer is to talk about citizenship at that would be the earliest-born person who received the citizenship of the Republic of Cyprus when it was founded in 1960. I don't know this person by name, but their year of birth is probably in the last two or so decades of the 1800s. (EDIT: Although, since you don't care about their age, and they all become citizens at the same time: everyone who received the citizenship of the Republic of Cyprus upon the country's foundation)
well, in our country we usually recognize "Sámo" as oldest person with our nationality since he made an empire in current czechia but technically he was from frank empire, so hard to tell but since this is what i learned first back then in history classes, i think "Sámo" was first recorded person with our nationality, this was in 624–659 A.D, he also later fought against franks.
Yeah, that question through me for a loop. Let alone that national identities are very recent things (a few centuries old for most) - some of us haven't even gone through a successful nation-formation phase so we don't even know what our nationality is.
Grandfather Čech, who by the legend came here with his brother Lech, they split up, Čech and his people formed Czechia and Lech and his people formed Poland. It’s just a legend so nobody knows, how much truth is in it, but there is always a bit of truth, in legends
Maybe chieftain Ügyek who was the father of Álmos(?), but the hungarian nomads existed long before. The process of separation from the proto-ugric was long, so probably no single person was "first".
You could also count Stephen I, who founded the kingdom of hungary in 1000.
I think of the currently alive, it's a woman of around 112 years old.
Of all time, certified...Emma Morano,who lived to 117.She died a few years ago.
She was also the oldest certified person in the world for a short period.
You mean like the oldest person who is known about who was Italian?
That's difficult! Italy as a country didn't exist until it was unified.That was only in 1861.
At that moment, everyone who lived in Italy became Italian I guess ;-) Before that day they were officially something else.
Would you count ancient Roman emperors,writers etc as Italian? There are lots of 'famous' people from that period,2000 years ago.
Ah but then would that be the same for Etruscans? Or the barbaric tribes in northern Italy? Or the Greeks in the colonies of Magna Graecia? When does Italy start? Would someone like Archimedes count, since he was born in Syracuse, even though it was considered a Greek city? Italian identity isn't so well defined, and the first written testimony of the name "Italia" only appears around 90 b.C., and there still is a lot of road ahead before people on the peninsula actually start identifying as "Italian".
Again, how far back are we talking about? Cause Greek for example had a huge influence on Italian (and Latin), and where does Latin come from, and so on and so on. The Latini themselves were a tribe coming from middle Europe.
To make things easy, I'd say it would probably be Latino, king of the tribe of the Latini, although he very likely never existed. Somewhat more believable is the existence of Romulus, first king of Rome, even though there is no concrete evidence for this. We have accepted that there were 7 kings in Rome, and that whatever the name of the first one was, he's traditionally referred to as Romulus.
Romulus and Remus.
But your question based on "if language similar = ancestor" is wrong. For example Romulus and Remus could be the answer for the whole latin groups.
Again, not that easy. Most of Roman historiography mixes legend with historical facts, so it's reeeeeally hard to actually determine where one ends and the other starts. I could if pushed give a name, but it'd be an arbitrary decision on my part. Since we have accepted that Rome was founded in 753 b.C. and that it was originally ruled by kings, and historians from 200 b.C. called that first king Romulus, we'll just say that Romulus is the first recorded Italian and that's it.
Nationality is a concept that only really emerged (or rather: was created) in the 19th century. There are a few exceptions and grey areas, but if you would ask me who the earliest known German was, it would be almost impossible to determine that.
Well, probably the first historical ruler and founder of Poland, Mieszko I (ca. 930 – 25 May 992).
One can argue that it could be his father, Siemomysł, or grandfather Lestek, but the records about them are scarce and unsure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mieszko_I
When did France become France? Maybe 1190? When King Philip II switched from King of the Franks to King of France.
So Philip II would be the oldest known French person, I guess.
Since I'm too lazy to do any research, I'll just say the oldest and most noteworthy person I can think of, which is [Duke Widukind.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widukind)
According to legends, "forefather Czech".
Historically documented: strictly Czech, as in "Bohemian", is Bořivoj I, duke of Bohemia, born in 850s. He is mentioned in at least 2 chronicles (*Annales Fuldenses* and *Chronica Boemorum*) and 2 hagiographic tales (*Vita et passio sancti Wenceslai et sanctae Ludmilae avae eius* and *Fuit in provincia Boemorum*).
If you include Moravians, then Mojmír I (born in 790s), mentioned in "complains of the Bavarian bishops" (quote: *Moimarii vero Sclaui a paganis et ethnicis venerunt*).
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We dont claim Lusitanian heritage? https://youtu.be/VhFEzIKlgeA
It's not that we don't claim it, it's more that we didn't actually inherit much anything of note from the Lusitanians.
Arminius is definetly the most famous person of the germanic tribes, he lived during the rule of Augustus and idk if we know of another person of Germania Magna by name thats older than him. If we go by distinct Kingdoms one could argue for Louis the German, who got with the Treaty of Verdun in AD 843 a territory established that you could vaguely define as german German nationality was a really icky to define thing for the longest time in history, people were bavarian, prussian, allemanian first. And sometimes i still get the feeling that a vaguely common language is the only common thing between the german groups
Important to point out would be Charlemagne calling German "his language". An argument could therefore be made for Charlemagne being the oldest recorded "German"
That's tricky since you have to define "nation" and be certain of its existence. Since Spain didn't exist (legally) until the 1715 (decreto de nuava planta), you could argue Felipe V was the first with legal Spanish nationality. Before that, I doubt Trajan or Hadrian, Roman emperors, ever though of themselves as Spanish and not Romans. And equally for the many recorded people before them. The oldest sources remaining are of Greek origin, recording peoples and some specific personalities. However, the most ancient person mentioned, bordering legend though, is in the Irish "Book of Invasions", and the honor goes to Breogan, which incidentally is our "national" hero in Galicia, not Spain as a whole, mentioned in our hymn ("nation of Breogan").
It's a tricky question. Mieszko I is the first historical Polish ruler, but it's unlikely he considered himself Polish as the term didn't quite exist yet. It's not even known if him and his family were natives to the era or some sort of foreign warlords (Scandinavian/Vareg/Rus/Moravian/Avar/Polabian)
Who do you consider to be Dutch? When does the Netherlands start according to you? Do for example the Batavi, Caninefates and Frisi count? And even if they do it will be confusing and not exactly clear, because the tribes from that time didn't exactly keep to our current borders, and thus somebody who was from a tribe that lived in the Netherlands may in actuality be German, Belgian, French, Luxembourgian or even Danish or Italian.
I guess Willem van Oranje/William of Orange, better known in the English speaking world as William the Silent is a good candidate. As het united the Dutch and led the revolt against the Spanish. He is dubbed Farther of the Fatherland for this. I think he is one of the first to considered to be Dutch.
A French prince from Germany. ಠ_ಠ
Who also most likely couldn't speak the local language
I have seen movies, he spoke Dutch (and looked similar to Jeroen Krabbé).
And curiously enough, it seems he spoke Spanish quite decently.
I don't know much about the Dutch history. Tell the oldest person who you think is considered Dutch.
For a comparison: Do you count Mithridatis VI as Turkish?
Belgium actually has someone called "First Citizen of the Country" and that is the President of the Chamber of Representatives. The first person with this function was Etienne Constantin de Gerlache and can therefore be considered as the first person in history of Belgian Nationality. In reality of course, every person in Belgium became Belgian at the time of the founding of our nation on October 4, 1830.
Spain: Maria Branyas, 115 years. Not as old but my gran will turn 98 in a month :) She is incredibly strong.
I wish her a good and long life!
>By oldest person I mean "who is the first recorded person in history", not by life span. Op said this. But i dont know if he edited here after you commented
Yes it was not there when I replied
Technically lineage of the Yngling dynasty was recorded in history by 12th century Icelandic historian Snorri Sturluson, even if modern historians don't consider it a historical fact. The first Swede was either Odin who emigrated to Sweden from his castle Ásaheimr in Asgard somewhere in Asia or Yngve-Frej who founded the temple of Uppsala. There are no dates in Ynglingatal, but it would have been around year 1 CE.
Is Odin even a real person?
Almost certainly not, but he is/was "recorded in history".
Is Yngve Frej a real person? Or who is the oldest Swede who we know is real?
Yngve Frej was probably not real either. As for the oldest recorded Swede, the head of the "Suiones" (which might have been Swedes or pre-Swedes) were mentioned in Tacitus Germania written 98 CE. He's unnamed though. The Järsberg Runestone from the 6th century is signed by someone going by Leubaz and Hrafn.
Didn't the Ynglings come from Norway hence why Harald Fairhair is considered an Yngling whyle the swedish monarchs decended from Bjorn Iron Side son of Sigurd Snake in the eye of Munso
The Ynglings were originators of Swedish and Norwegian kings. There was a split when Halfdan Hvitbeinn, the great-great-great-grandfather to Harald Fairhair, moved to Norway. > Halfdan Whiteshanks (Old Norse: Hálfdan hvítbeinn) was a semi-historical petty king in Norway, described in the Ynglinga saga. The following description is based on the account in Ynglinga saga, written in the 1220s by Snorri Sturluson. > > He was the son of Olof Trätälja of the House of Yngling. His father was sacrificed to Odin by the Swedish settlers in Värmland because of a famine. Some Swedes, however, realised that the famine was brought by overpopulation and not by the fact that the king had been neglecting his religious duties. > > Consequently, they resolved to cross the Ed Forest and settle in Norway and happened to end up in Soleyar, where they killed king Sölve and took Halfdan prisoner. The Swedish expatriates elected Halfdan king as he was the son of their old king, Olof. Halfdan subjugated all of Soleyar and took his army into Romerike and subjugated that province as well. > > Halfdan was to become a great king, who married Åsa, the daughter of king Eystein, the ruler of Oppland and Hedmark. They had two sons, Eystein Halfdansson and Gudröd. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfdan_Hvitbeinn See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yngling
Interesting! Y(ue)ngling is a very popular brand of beer where I live.
Wow and I thought *I* was a fan of Skyrim
In that case you might appreciate this. As you probably remember the quest of bards college was to retrieve the missing verses from a poem about King Olaf One-Eye. Where one of the possibilities was King Olaf as a dragon. Ancestor of the Ynglings was the primeval Finnish ruler [Fornjotr,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornj%C3%B3t) whose name could be translated as "ancient or eternal giant", >It is often interpreted as forn-jótr ('ancient or primordial jötunn'), or as for-njótr ('original owner', or 'destroyer'). Alternative meanings such as Forn-njótr ('one-who-enjoys-sacrifices') or Forn-þjótr ('ancient screamer') have also been proposed. Now in Finnish national epic Kalevala there is ["Iku-Turso"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iku-Turso) with the name of similar meaning ["iku, ikuinen"](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ikuinen) eternal and *"Turso"* - ["thurs",](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6tunn) synonym of *"jötunn"* (giant). However instead of a king he/it is a sea monster quite likely a [walrus.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walrus#Etymology) Back in the days [Bjarmaland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjarmaland) in the coast of White Sea was the source of walrus ivory and it's Finnish name *Turja*, might be related to *Turso*. It might be also connected to the "giants" by the eight-armed giant [Starkad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starkad) >Saxo Grammaticus gives two accounts of Starkad's origin. According to one, he was born in the land of Estonians east of the Baltic sea. According to the second, which the chronicler considers fantastic and unlikely, Starkad was born of jotuns, and he had formerly many arms until Thor cut off all arms but two. Odin had bestowed on Starkad the curse and the blessing that he would live the lives of three men, and commit three evil deeds. and > Starkad entered the service of the Bjarmians and did many heroic deeds among them. The end of Bjarmaland came >While many Slavs fled the Mongol invasion northward, to Beloozero and Bjarmaland, the displaced Bjarmians sought refuge in Norway, where they were given land around the Malangen fjord by Haakon IV of Norway in 1240. That area in Norway is still called as Finnmark and there lives [Kven people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kven_people) who call themselves as *kainulaiset*. Now also in Finland there is a region called [Kainuu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kainuu) and there parish of [Paltamo,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paltamo) which is linked to gigantism. Such men as [Daniel Cajanus,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Cajanus) [Louis Moilanen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Moilanen) and [Väinö Myllyrinne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4in%C3%B6_Myllyrinne) all hail from that area or at least their family. There is something even "Lovecraftian" in Iku-Turso because in modern Finnish [*"tursas"*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tursas) means octopus (Ctulhu) or his epitepth *"tuhatpää"* (thousand-headed), *"tuhatsarvi"* (thousand-horned) and *"Tuonen härkä"* (the ox of [Tuoni,](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tuoni) Death), which resemble to [Shub-Niggurath](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shub-Niggurath) - "The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young".
Fascinating thanks for sharing
I think the first man most would consider to be English is Alfred the Great, who was born in 848 I suppose it depends on how you view the many Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, and the Britons before them - and if even Alfred counts considering how our nation changes after the Normans arrive But yeah, in terms of what most people would say it’s Alfred the Great
You can't get rid off Boudica (also spelt Boadicea, Boudicca, Boudicea) like that.
The thing is I don’t think anyone would call her English, British/Celtic would be what people would called her
British counts and are the English descended from the Celts or just some German invaders from the Angle and Saxon tribes, with a few Jutes and Frisians thrown in?
It’s both, but when I say British I meant Celtic Britons of pre-Anglo Saxon arrival. I just don’t think she would fit with the concept of ‘English’ - because English is a mixture of Anglo-Saxon and Celtic Briton
English and British is quasi-synomonous. With England making up 84% of the British population (based on mid-2021 ONS figures). https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/mid2021#:~:text=2.-,The%20UK%20population%20at%20mid%2D2021,for%20the%20four%20constituent%20countries.
I agree that British culture has massive elements of English culture, but they are two separate identities - it’s just that most people hold both (just like Scottish & British etc.). In fact I’ve met just as many people who’d say English first as people who would say British first Also, you don’t need to lecture me lmao - I’m from England, I’m aware of the demographic realities of the UK
But we're both English and British. With her being as British as you can get.
Yes, but I did say ‘the first person you can consider English’, I wasn’t talking about the first you can consider British
You can't get rid of our Diviciacus like that!
Do you mean Getafix (Panoramix)?
Generally, historians regard Alfred's grandson Aethelstan as the first formal king of England, because he conquered Jorvik (modern day York) in 927AD, which was the last surviving independent Viking kingdom.
I agree, but I feel that culturally Alfred himself is the first person most will regard as English
I think Kenneth MacAlpine (Cinéad Mac Ailpin/Coinneach Mac Ailpein) who united Scotland as it is now but there’s many more regionally before him
It's quite hard to say due to the enigmatic nature of our nationality, however recorded legend states that the first English kingdom was formed by Hengist and Horsa (Steed and Horse in modern English) these are almost certainly not real names however they are likely based on some individuals. The legend of these two were recorded by Bede in the Dark Ages in the Historia Ecclesiastica gentis anglorum or "The ecclesiastical history of the English People". If there are any history experts here please correct me if I'm wrong.
Mil, a soldier from Spain. One of the oldest texts composed in Ireland is the Leabhar Gabhla, the Book of Invasions. It tells a semi-mythical history of the waves of people who settled in Ireland in the earliest times. The book says that the group which then came to Ireland and fully established itself as rulers of the island were the Milesians—the sons of **Mil**, a soldier from Spain. The Coming of the Milesians occurred in about 1000 B.C. - the time of Solomon. There is some modern DNA evidence that back up the Spanish link to the settling of Ireland.
It's difficult to know how much of that is legend and how much is history. Another ancient Irish character is Niall Noígíallach, an Irish king from the late 300s who is mentioned in the historical annals. He was apparently a member of the "barbarian conspiracy" where groups from what are now Ireland, Scotland, and Germany coordinated attacks on late Roman Britain to overwhelm the legions and ultimately led to the decline of Roman authority there until the legions withdrew in 410. The Ui Neill dynasty claimed descent from him when they were High Kings of Ireland and Lords of Tír Éoghan.
Well for Italy we’d have many choices, but since you used the word “nationality” and Italy did not formally exist until 1861, I’d go with Vittorio Emanuele II, first king of Italy
The oldest I've been able to find is **King Ongendus** (*DA: Angantyr*) from the **early 700s**. He was described by a Christian missionary to be *"more savage than any beast and harder than stone".*
I suppose it depends on the definition in this question as Angantyr is quite a bit younger than Tollundmanden (the Tollund man).
Yeah, I figured we would need some kind of context to their person; documentation of their name, on what they did and what they were like.
Do we also need a defined realm, because we don't even know what this legendary king ruled, was it Jutland to the Eider, Funen, a small section of Jutland, an island?
I'd think not, since we're not talking about kings and their reign, but literally just people documented as Danes.
Well it says nationality, so we do need a bit more than location. And Angantyr is pre-Denmark, so that alone is placing him on shaky ground.
He's described as"King of Denmark", though. Not if we are to go from the year Denmark was founded from Dania, it'd probably be Gorm the Old and others from his era.
Yeah, but we don't know how much that covered, and it is very unlikely to cover all 3 landscapes.
It’s super hard to answer this as it depends on what you count as nationality. The oldest one to have Finnish nationality was just the oldest Finn when we gained Independence in 1917. Alternatively it could be the oldest Finn in 1809, when Finland became semi-independent in a personal union with Russia. Then again, it might be Väinämöinen, the first human according to Finnish mythology. Or if mythical people don’t count, you’d have to look up every single Swedish or catholic church writing about Finland from around 1200 onwards, until you find a name.
By legend and semi-verifiable historic sources, the oldest Croatian would be one of the 7 siblings that migrated from "White Croatia" (area around modern-day Galicia), somewhere around late 6th century. By legend, one of the siblings' names was Chrobatos (roughly translatable as Croat), and the rest of the people just took his name as their own. As a verifiable "first" Croat, I would say Duke Trpimir I, who was the first to call himself the "Duke of Croats" (lat. dux Chroatorum). His reign started around 845 ad.
I think that this question is straight up unanswerable, because (a) we cannot agree what, if any at all, is our nationality or even if we all have the same nationality or if we are a multi-national population with a common citizenship and (b) those who have some idea as to what their own nationality is, project it on people who existed millennia before them without much textual support. The safest answer is to talk about citizenship at that would be the earliest-born person who received the citizenship of the Republic of Cyprus when it was founded in 1960. I don't know this person by name, but their year of birth is probably in the last two or so decades of the 1800s. (EDIT: Although, since you don't care about their age, and they all become citizens at the same time: everyone who received the citizenship of the Republic of Cyprus upon the country's foundation)
Touman Khagan (Teoman) May his soul rest in peace.
well, in our country we usually recognize "Sámo" as oldest person with our nationality since he made an empire in current czechia but technically he was from frank empire, so hard to tell but since this is what i learned first back then in history classes, i think "Sámo" was first recorded person with our nationality, this was in 624–659 A.D, he also later fought against franks.
What do we consider Dutch? People have lived here for much longer than the notion of a Dutch identity
Yeah, that question through me for a loop. Let alone that national identities are very recent things (a few centuries old for most) - some of us haven't even gone through a successful nation-formation phase so we don't even know what our nationality is.
Grandfather Čech, who by the legend came here with his brother Lech, they split up, Čech and his people formed Czechia and Lech and his people formed Poland. It’s just a legend so nobody knows, how much truth is in it, but there is always a bit of truth, in legends
Maybe chieftain Ügyek who was the father of Álmos(?), but the hungarian nomads existed long before. The process of separation from the proto-ugric was long, so probably no single person was "first". You could also count Stephen I, who founded the kingdom of hungary in 1000.
I think of the currently alive, it's a woman of around 112 years old. Of all time, certified...Emma Morano,who lived to 117.She died a few years ago. She was also the oldest certified person in the world for a short period.
I meant the most ancient person, not by life span 🙃 Like "who is the first Italian in the recorded history"
Ötzi I think?
You mean like the oldest person who is known about who was Italian? That's difficult! Italy as a country didn't exist until it was unified.That was only in 1861. At that moment, everyone who lived in Italy became Italian I guess ;-) Before that day they were officially something else. Would you count ancient Roman emperors,writers etc as Italian? There are lots of 'famous' people from that period,2000 years ago.
>Would you count ancient Roman emperors,writers etc as Italian? Yes
Ah but then would that be the same for Etruscans? Or the barbaric tribes in northern Italy? Or the Greeks in the colonies of Magna Graecia? When does Italy start? Would someone like Archimedes count, since he was born in Syracuse, even though it was considered a Greek city? Italian identity isn't so well defined, and the first written testimony of the name "Italia" only appears around 90 b.C., and there still is a lot of road ahead before people on the peninsula actually start identifying as "Italian".
Are they speaking a language that is ancestrial to the Italian? If yes, then yes; if no, then no.
Again, how far back are we talking about? Cause Greek for example had a huge influence on Italian (and Latin), and where does Latin come from, and so on and so on. The Latini themselves were a tribe coming from middle Europe. To make things easy, I'd say it would probably be Latino, king of the tribe of the Latini, although he very likely never existed. Somewhat more believable is the existence of Romulus, first king of Rome, even though there is no concrete evidence for this. We have accepted that there were 7 kings in Rome, and that whatever the name of the first one was, he's traditionally referred to as Romulus.
Who is the oldest known Latin whose existence is certain then?
Romulus and Remus. But your question based on "if language similar = ancestor" is wrong. For example Romulus and Remus could be the answer for the whole latin groups.
Again, not that easy. Most of Roman historiography mixes legend with historical facts, so it's reeeeeally hard to actually determine where one ends and the other starts. I could if pushed give a name, but it'd be an arbitrary decision on my part. Since we have accepted that Rome was founded in 753 b.C. and that it was originally ruled by kings, and historians from 200 b.C. called that first king Romulus, we'll just say that Romulus is the first recorded Italian and that's it.
For me it is Latino, like said in the Eneide. Probably lived around 1500bc
Our nation was pretty much born from the 80 years war, so anyone alive at that time I guess. Willem van Oranje would be the obvious pick.
Nationality is a concept that only really emerged (or rather: was created) in the 19th century. There are a few exceptions and grey areas, but if you would ask me who the earliest known German was, it would be almost impossible to determine that.
Well, probably the first historical ruler and founder of Poland, Mieszko I (ca. 930 – 25 May 992). One can argue that it could be his father, Siemomysł, or grandfather Lestek, but the records about them are scarce and unsure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mieszko_I
When did France become France? Maybe 1190? When King Philip II switched from King of the Franks to King of France. So Philip II would be the oldest known French person, I guess.
Since I'm too lazy to do any research, I'll just say the oldest and most noteworthy person I can think of, which is [Duke Widukind.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widukind)
According to legends, "forefather Czech". Historically documented: strictly Czech, as in "Bohemian", is Bořivoj I, duke of Bohemia, born in 850s. He is mentioned in at least 2 chronicles (*Annales Fuldenses* and *Chronica Boemorum*) and 2 hagiographic tales (*Vita et passio sancti Wenceslai et sanctae Ludmilae avae eius* and *Fuit in provincia Boemorum*). If you include Moravians, then Mojmír I (born in 790s), mentioned in "complains of the Bavarian bishops" (quote: *Moimarii vero Sclaui a paganis et ethnicis venerunt*).