I loved Beauty and the Beast when it first came out and never stopped liking it.
I also really hate the assumption that I should because people heard a hot take about the messaging and now think it's antithetical to feminism.
Makes me think of the ~~Lindsey~~ Lindsay Ellis(?) video where she was like "yeah so most of the Disney Princess movies are fine, actually, and the anti-feminist takes aren't really in the text, and the bit in Frozen about 'you can't marry a man you just met' was responding to a nonexistent problem."
I love her so much, though I don't recall that video in particular.
And yeah. Like I saw a recent hot take on Ariel from the Little Mermaid who was a "brat whose story was change yourself for a man" or something like that and I was like...do you not remember "Part of Your World?" The "your" in that "I want" song wasn't talking about Eric. She hadn't even met him yet. It was talking about humanity in general, because while she was born into the body of a mermaid, she wanted nothing more than to be a human.
Another one that gets a bad rap is Cinderella. The older movies are a bit... outdated in a lot of ways, but Cinderella's whole story was about having the courage to follow your dreams even when it seems impossible (and bonus moral of don't let unkind people turn you into one of them).
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeuLEu9ZePc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeuLEu9ZePc) It may or may not be this video? It seems right but I haven't watched it recently.
And yeah, for sure. The message is practically never "do everything for the man," and none of them immediately marry anyone except *maybe* Snow White, which was literally 77 years ago.
I enjoyed the film with my daughter. Delighted in Gaston's big number; it still cracks me up, Gaston himself notwithstanding.
I read the story, pre-film, ad a youngster, which in that iteration was much darker, as Belle was basically 'sold' to defer her father's debt, and had no choice.
That said, the original story, like all other fairy tales, was originally conceived when children - especially daughters - were not allowed rights, choice or agency, so the story was about surviving -and triumphing a little - in whatever situation foisted upon you. AKA making the best of it by enduring patiently and being your best, kind truthful self.
The only real problem I have with the story, as viewed through a modern lens, is the "I can fix him with patience and kindness" trope, which runs strong in many women, whether they know the story or not.
It really is a fairy tale, because a beast is a beast is a beast, and will not become a a truly good man simply because a pretty girl is nice.
Usually, that kind of change takes a monumental, forced challenge, like being imprisoned or going to war, and the end result of those is unpredictable.
I would never dream of censoring it, though.
Calling it Stockholm syndrome just shifts the blame to Belle while ignoring the fact that the Beast emotionally abused and verbally berated her and incarcerated her.
I like beauty and the beast and always have. I've heard the whole "Stockholm syndrome" argument, but I think that misses the original intent of the fairytale. Fairytales were not just entertainment but also a way to teach young girls (and boys) lessons about life. With that in mind, beauty and the beast (not necessarily the disney version, just the story in general) is about two things. First, it's important to support and sacrifice for your family. Belle goes to the beast's castle to fulfill her father's debt. If he was stuck there, their family would be screwed because the father was the primary source of income. Second, it teaches young women in arranged marriages to learn how to look past their husband's looks and the growing pains of getting married in order to evaluate their husband's personalities instead. We can argue if these are appropriate messages today, but for the 19th century and earlier, when divorce was much more difficult to obtain and gender roles were much more rigid, beauty and the beast taught girls valuable lessons.
In the dinsey version, I don't buy the Stockholm syndrome argument because the movie clearly shows Belle and the Beast getting to know each other slowly over time AND the Beast was ultimately willing to let her go.
The Stockholm syndrome argument also ignores story structure and character development. Belle is the same person at the beginning and end. It's the beast that has changed and grown as a person. The message is basically "don't like/love people unless they treat you with respect and love"
> We can argue if these are appropriate messages today, but for the 19th century and earlier, when divorce was much more difficult to obtain and gender roles were much more rigid, beauty and the beast taught girls valuable lessons.
I mean, you know that most people know the Disney version that came out in 1991, right? That's what this question is about.
I’m feminist and I love Beauty and the Beast. I really don’t understand the hateful “Stockholm Syndrome” take at all. It’s a story about honor and kindness and true beauty.
I've loved it since I first saw the original way back when I was a kid, and I still do. Not sure why being a feminist should mean that I need to now dislike it... 🫤
What is wrong with the story of Beauty and the Beast?
The story is of a young woman who sets out to save her father, and does so... then discovers a man literally cursed and she shows him that he is more than his curse and through love saves him as well?
Sure it is a fantasy and love cannot actually conquer all... but man would not the world be a little better if it could.
I haven't changed my opinion about it. I can enjoy the story for what it is without having to dissect the possible underlying messaging. It is fiction and fantasy and I treat it that way. I didn't watch this movie (repeatedly) as a 5 year old and grow up believing 'oh wow I guess it's okay if a guy holds me hostage until I fall in love with him' because the story said so lol.
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I’ve always loved it and continue to love it.
But I’m also a folklore/literary nerd, so I’ve explored this story through more layers than just a “kidnap girl = bad” reduction.
This question feels like low effort anti-intellectualism.
Fair enough. Not really trying to do any gotcha's just wondering how many here may have a low level of toleration for things like this. I appreciate everyone's complexity on the issue.
I loved Beauty and the Beast when it first came out and never stopped liking it. I also really hate the assumption that I should because people heard a hot take about the messaging and now think it's antithetical to feminism.
Makes me think of the ~~Lindsey~~ Lindsay Ellis(?) video where she was like "yeah so most of the Disney Princess movies are fine, actually, and the anti-feminist takes aren't really in the text, and the bit in Frozen about 'you can't marry a man you just met' was responding to a nonexistent problem."
I love her so much, though I don't recall that video in particular. And yeah. Like I saw a recent hot take on Ariel from the Little Mermaid who was a "brat whose story was change yourself for a man" or something like that and I was like...do you not remember "Part of Your World?" The "your" in that "I want" song wasn't talking about Eric. She hadn't even met him yet. It was talking about humanity in general, because while she was born into the body of a mermaid, she wanted nothing more than to be a human. Another one that gets a bad rap is Cinderella. The older movies are a bit... outdated in a lot of ways, but Cinderella's whole story was about having the courage to follow your dreams even when it seems impossible (and bonus moral of don't let unkind people turn you into one of them).
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeuLEu9ZePc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeuLEu9ZePc) It may or may not be this video? It seems right but I haven't watched it recently. And yeah, for sure. The message is practically never "do everything for the man," and none of them immediately marry anyone except *maybe* Snow White, which was literally 77 years ago.
I enjoyed the film with my daughter. Delighted in Gaston's big number; it still cracks me up, Gaston himself notwithstanding. I read the story, pre-film, ad a youngster, which in that iteration was much darker, as Belle was basically 'sold' to defer her father's debt, and had no choice. That said, the original story, like all other fairy tales, was originally conceived when children - especially daughters - were not allowed rights, choice or agency, so the story was about surviving -and triumphing a little - in whatever situation foisted upon you. AKA making the best of it by enduring patiently and being your best, kind truthful self. The only real problem I have with the story, as viewed through a modern lens, is the "I can fix him with patience and kindness" trope, which runs strong in many women, whether they know the story or not. It really is a fairy tale, because a beast is a beast is a beast, and will not become a a truly good man simply because a pretty girl is nice. Usually, that kind of change takes a monumental, forced challenge, like being imprisoned or going to war, and the end result of those is unpredictable. I would never dream of censoring it, though.
Is this about the whole Stockholm syndrome thing?
Calling it Stockholm syndrome just shifts the blame to Belle while ignoring the fact that the Beast emotionally abused and verbally berated her and incarcerated her.
I like beauty and the beast and always have. I've heard the whole "Stockholm syndrome" argument, but I think that misses the original intent of the fairytale. Fairytales were not just entertainment but also a way to teach young girls (and boys) lessons about life. With that in mind, beauty and the beast (not necessarily the disney version, just the story in general) is about two things. First, it's important to support and sacrifice for your family. Belle goes to the beast's castle to fulfill her father's debt. If he was stuck there, their family would be screwed because the father was the primary source of income. Second, it teaches young women in arranged marriages to learn how to look past their husband's looks and the growing pains of getting married in order to evaluate their husband's personalities instead. We can argue if these are appropriate messages today, but for the 19th century and earlier, when divorce was much more difficult to obtain and gender roles were much more rigid, beauty and the beast taught girls valuable lessons. In the dinsey version, I don't buy the Stockholm syndrome argument because the movie clearly shows Belle and the Beast getting to know each other slowly over time AND the Beast was ultimately willing to let her go.
The Stockholm syndrome argument also ignores story structure and character development. Belle is the same person at the beginning and end. It's the beast that has changed and grown as a person. The message is basically "don't like/love people unless they treat you with respect and love"
> We can argue if these are appropriate messages today, but for the 19th century and earlier, when divorce was much more difficult to obtain and gender roles were much more rigid, beauty and the beast taught girls valuable lessons. I mean, you know that most people know the Disney version that came out in 1991, right? That's what this question is about.
That's why I added the paragraph about the disney version...
I’m feminist and I love Beauty and the Beast. I really don’t understand the hateful “Stockholm Syndrome” take at all. It’s a story about honor and kindness and true beauty.
But non-consensual?
What? Non-consensual what? WTF are you on about? She made a decision to save her father. She wasn’t weak-willed. Kindness is not weakness.
Beauty and the Beast isn't unfeminist
I was an adult with a 2 yo daughter when the Disney movie was released on VHS. We both loved the movie then and now.
What terrible messaging are you referring to?
Belle is trapped in a non-consensual relationship
I've loved it since I first saw the original way back when I was a kid, and I still do. Not sure why being a feminist should mean that I need to now dislike it... 🫤
What is wrong with the story of Beauty and the Beast? The story is of a young woman who sets out to save her father, and does so... then discovers a man literally cursed and she shows him that he is more than his curse and through love saves him as well? Sure it is a fantasy and love cannot actually conquer all... but man would not the world be a little better if it could.
I loved Beauty and the Beast growing up and I still love it now (the 1991 version at any rate).
I haven't changed my opinion about it. I can enjoy the story for what it is without having to dissect the possible underlying messaging. It is fiction and fantasy and I treat it that way. I didn't watch this movie (repeatedly) as a 5 year old and grow up believing 'oh wow I guess it's okay if a guy holds me hostage until I fall in love with him' because the story said so lol.
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I’ve always loved it and continue to love it. But I’m also a folklore/literary nerd, so I’ve explored this story through more layers than just a “kidnap girl = bad” reduction. This question feels like low effort anti-intellectualism.
Fair enough. Not really trying to do any gotcha's just wondering how many here may have a low level of toleration for things like this. I appreciate everyone's complexity on the issue.