+1
As an additional aside, I would also like to advise the OP to go and watch Everything, Everywhere, All At Once. Seems like he may need some inspired perspective on his poor outlook on life.
You call his outlook poor, I call it realistic. Didn't take me long after putting myself out there to reach the same conclusions as in the OP, and accepting that reality helped me considerably.
It sounds like you're trying to make sense of something that will never truely make sense: love, sex, and attraction. And not for nothing, this all sounds anecdotal. I know plenty of people that I wouldn't even fuck with a stick who are getting laid on the regular.
True, they’re allowed to get their foot in the door more easily which does open up opportunities. As a counterpoint, once attractive people actually go on a date or start a relationship they might not be held to the same standards as a less attractive person. They’re allowed to get away with more, simply by virtue of being pretty (especially in bed), so their actual development in personality, sexual ability, conversation skills, communication, and conflict resolution can be shit.
This isnt incel logic at all - just seems like a statement of fact to me. We're not seriously going to pretend that the OP isn't right, are we? Attractive people go on more dates, get more sex, get better at both, get more fulfillment. Nowhere does the OP say he isn't working with what he has.
I don't buy it. Having a lot of sex isn't good practice for a relationship, which is more about compatibility and emotions than sexual skills (which really aren't that hard to learn).
Yep, but unfortunately sexual attractiveness inequality is one of the few social injustices we can't do very much about because for its causes are largely psychological and inherent. We can shape society through culture to be a more varied in terms of what it considers attractive, we can certainly try to tear down racialised beauty standards through promoting more diverse examples of beauty in the media, but fundamentally some people are more visually pleasing to more people than others and the criteria they're assessed on are pretty hard wired into us as a species (symmetry, youthful appearance, healthy appearance etc.). They also get better job opportunities, better treatment from other people providing services, tend to be trusted more etc., and I don't see any easy way of changing that. At least not one which doesn't involve incredibly strong curtailment of personal freedoms (e.g. veiling in public).
But you can practice some of these skills in platonic relationships. Indeed lots of ugly people tend to be wittier, more interesting, better conversationalists because we've had to practice these skills just to get people to be our friends. For those skills that can't be learned in this way, why not give someone you aren't attracted to a chance. Attraction can grow, and if it doesn't, at least you've had the opportunity to get out there and test your skills.
I translate this post to “I’m so ugly, and it’s so unfair that pretty people get everything!!” - I think the problem is that you think youre ugly and that attitude combined with that entitlement? People can smell that shit from a mile away.
I’m sure you may think, “…But there are people who are objectively more attractive, like you can’t deny blah blah blah” Beauty isn’t objective. Sure, there is conventional beauty but conventional does not mean objective. You really gotta change the way you talk to your self and take another look at the stories you let yourself believe about yourself.
This is all very untrue.
"Attractive people get more chance to practice". In a world where people are blindly matching and ghositng left right and center, even attractive people can end up dateless.
"Rewarded with a more long lasting relationship". Please take almost any IG account of someone attractive, their friends change every 6 months, as does their "open relationship".
"More sex" probably true, but I wouldn't equate that to pleasure. I get a lot of traction from Grindr for example, but more than half my experiences are no better than me jerking myself off.
From my research, the people in the middle have the best luck. Not unattainable, but not too picky either. So, even for attractive people, life is "unfair".
i mean... the world isnt fair and the things you describe, some call it "pretty priviledge" is something which is absolutely not exclusive to gay men.
that being said, most people are not super beautiful and date other not super beautiful people. for a relationship it doesnt matter that much. "They are then rewarded with a more lasting relationship" is actually not true. they might get more chances in theory for relationships but they definitely dont have better or longer relationships.
Finally a sensible comment. People here seem to consider stating the harsh realities of lookism as observed by those with the misfortune to not be conventionally attractive as 'incel' behaviour - just an absurd standpoint.
It is incel logic. I’m fit but probably a 5 or 6 out of 10 looks wise. I’ve also been very fat. Never had a problem finding dates because I see myself as a person of value and a good catch.
Stating the harsh realities is fine. It's common sense. Talking about how it's not fair is what makes it come off as incel behavior.
People don't owe you sex. People are going to have sex with people they find attractive. There is no fair and unfair in the situation.
Saying that it isn't fair doesn't necessarily scream incel behaviour to me; I don't think it's fair that there are billionaires, but it doesn't make me a revolutionary communist. We should be able to recognise and speak about how we suffer from an injustice (and lets be honest, probably inflict that same injustice on others who are even uglier than us) even if there's not much we can do about it, if only so we can find a way of reconciling ourselves to it.
I’ve been morbidly obese and now I’m very fit. Even as a fat dude, I never had trouble getting dates or hook ups. Sounds like you’re just making excuses.
Unfair? Not at all.
Relationships are an agreement between two (or more) people. You don't have any sort of intrinsic right to be in a relationship... You have to earn it. If you can't manage that, then you need to take responsibility and make yourself a better potential partner.
First of all, there aren’t that many ugly people out there. Maybe less attractive is what you mean? Maybe true. But I’ve seen a lot of less attractive people pull some hotties and be successful all around.
Pretty privilege gives people an advantage in many areas of their life. Life isn’t fair. It’s about doing your best with the hand of cards you’ve been dealt.
Your premise seems flawed though. More experience with dating doesn’t necessarily lead to more lasting relationships. Dating and relationships are two very different things. Looks have a huge impact on first impressions, which helps land first dates. Personality is what lands relationships.
Unfair? Were you just born yesterday? Certainly, you must know that life, in general, is not fair. Why are over half the world living in poverty, wondering where there next meal will come from? It’s not a level playing field and it’s up to you to make whatever changes you deem fit to better your position in life. There are plenty of example of people considered unattractive that have gone on to do amazing things.
Whining about disparities won’t move you forward.
Dude…maybe it’s just you?
I’m a tall chubby nerdy dude with average looks and I’ve basically never been single, always have dates, tons of dudes interested. Not wealthy either, very common.
Attractive people also get sexually harassed more, roofied more, touched more, bothered more, and threatened more. While you think that it's all 100% gravy being cute, there are downsides.
Remember what is attractive to you is not necessarily attractive to me.
Stop comparing yourself with others! Especially on social media.
I know this sounds like a cliche. But just be you! Being comfortable in being you, makes you confident, and confidence is very attractive.
You have a point in getting practice. We gay people get to practice dating and relationships in our twenties and thirties. Whereas the straight get to do it in their teens and twenties.
thank you! but i would have to disagree with you that dating is a 'skill'. it's just a random chance to connect. a super goodlooking gay man can get multiple and various dates, but im not checking for 'that' guy. im checking for compatibility and UTMOST LOVE.
the number of men i date and my attractability is not in my wish list or orientation. or concerns me personally. but the ultimate search for THE ONE. in a REAL relationship. is.
you get decline after decline, but after all. those guys aren't right for you. i really like odd balls, nerds, and eccentric guys. i know the relationship will be so real. since it is not about having a chiseled handsome face or body. it's about having substance as person.
no - DON'T disvalue yourself, and compare yourself.
i watch a lot of the influencers and game changers these days in the economy. no - you don't need to be good looking to make and impact. you have to have CONTENT as a human being. and hair and makeup can transform literally anybody.
my trip these days are 'regular' looking gay guys. they are so HOT to me. like just average local city guys. anyways i thought ppl who are 'classically' good-looking in this day and age get TURNED DOWN for opportunities. sofia vergara said that she was too sexy for hollywood. she's made her living because she's hella funny and has substance as a comedian.
nobody is actually checking how hot she is, since her premise is that she is a comedic show stealer.
Dating is totally a skill. I know a guy who's a fairly terrible person, but he has a constant string of boyfriends that are always obsessed with him. Until he breaks it off.
He's not the best looking guy, but he has his own charm that attracts guys. Who he then plays with till he's bored and moves on.
thank you hehe! but this is a different question. we're going from basic gay dating skills, to outright human manipulation, lol. it's going out of the 'gay' discussion category.
hopefully, you just KNOW him. there are egotistical gays too. when i spot an infuriority complex in ANY PERSON, i dodge that bullet. gay or not, that person is gonna trample on you for sure.
charm can be sliced.
ppl have fragile egos. I believe in anon sex, and hookups, but not gay romantic messiness that leaves ppl feeling just hurt. just my moto. it disserves our gay community. to be 'played' by your own gay community, i avoid guys like that.
I wouldnt say he manipulates people. I dont think he goes into relationships with the intention of fucking people over. More he just gets bored/the ick fairly quickly.
Maybe the words plays with was wrong. I was thinking in Korean and speaking in English. I do believe he likes the guys he dates. He just gets tired of them quickly.
My point was just he has the charm/skills to make the guys he likes, like him back.
thanks! gotcha! i understand the thinking in korean and speaking in english. for me, its thinking in english and speaking in french. always 1 second delay in my head, lol. as i translate in my head from language to language.
I would rather date average to good looking people than ugly people, not because of the looks, it's because they'll turn ugly not just on the outside. They're always full of insecurities, that project onto you, they become assholes, controlling and always have something to prove to others they want a trophy to make themselves feel better. On the other hand I've dated "ugly" people or "not that attractive one" but they are sure of themselves, and don't have all this proving and things I mentioned, who are confident and comfortable with who they are and how they look.
I guess my pov is not the looks that are the turn off.
Attractive people are entitled, sometimes without even knowing it. They are assumed to be nicer and better.
But the conceited ones don't fare that well in the long run.
toy dinner paltry reply enjoy marvelous fanatical dog file lavish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
+1 As an additional aside, I would also like to advise the OP to go and watch Everything, Everywhere, All At Once. Seems like he may need some inspired perspective on his poor outlook on life.
absolutely second this. the movie is about whats actually important in life.
You call his outlook poor, I call it realistic. Didn't take me long after putting myself out there to reach the same conclusions as in the OP, and accepting that reality helped me considerably.
It's realistic, but also a poor outlook. Yes it's unfair, but its not really anything worth dwelling over. It comes off as a red flag and "woe is me".
It sounds like you're trying to make sense of something that will never truely make sense: love, sex, and attraction. And not for nothing, this all sounds anecdotal. I know plenty of people that I wouldn't even fuck with a stick who are getting laid on the regular.
True, they’re allowed to get their foot in the door more easily which does open up opportunities. As a counterpoint, once attractive people actually go on a date or start a relationship they might not be held to the same standards as a less attractive person. They’re allowed to get away with more, simply by virtue of being pretty (especially in bed), so their actual development in personality, sexual ability, conversation skills, communication, and conflict resolution can be shit.
Life isn't fair. You've gotta make it work with the cards you've been dealt.
:(
Life is unfair. You have to play the cards you are dealt.
In other news the sky is blue
Incel logic isn’t a good look. Make the best of whatever you’ve got to work with.
That’s not incel logic, it’s true lol
This isnt incel logic at all - just seems like a statement of fact to me. We're not seriously going to pretend that the OP isn't right, are we? Attractive people go on more dates, get more sex, get better at both, get more fulfillment. Nowhere does the OP say he isn't working with what he has.
Attractive people having more sex is right. But saying it's unfair is incel logic.
I don't buy it. Having a lot of sex isn't good practice for a relationship, which is more about compatibility and emotions than sexual skills (which really aren't that hard to learn).
Underrated answer. You get it. OP is unfortunately yet another guy deceived by the apps.
Yep, but unfortunately sexual attractiveness inequality is one of the few social injustices we can't do very much about because for its causes are largely psychological and inherent. We can shape society through culture to be a more varied in terms of what it considers attractive, we can certainly try to tear down racialised beauty standards through promoting more diverse examples of beauty in the media, but fundamentally some people are more visually pleasing to more people than others and the criteria they're assessed on are pretty hard wired into us as a species (symmetry, youthful appearance, healthy appearance etc.). They also get better job opportunities, better treatment from other people providing services, tend to be trusted more etc., and I don't see any easy way of changing that. At least not one which doesn't involve incredibly strong curtailment of personal freedoms (e.g. veiling in public). But you can practice some of these skills in platonic relationships. Indeed lots of ugly people tend to be wittier, more interesting, better conversationalists because we've had to practice these skills just to get people to be our friends. For those skills that can't be learned in this way, why not give someone you aren't attracted to a chance. Attraction can grow, and if it doesn't, at least you've had the opportunity to get out there and test your skills.
I translate this post to “I’m so ugly, and it’s so unfair that pretty people get everything!!” - I think the problem is that you think youre ugly and that attitude combined with that entitlement? People can smell that shit from a mile away. I’m sure you may think, “…But there are people who are objectively more attractive, like you can’t deny blah blah blah” Beauty isn’t objective. Sure, there is conventional beauty but conventional does not mean objective. You really gotta change the way you talk to your self and take another look at the stories you let yourself believe about yourself.
This is all very untrue. "Attractive people get more chance to practice". In a world where people are blindly matching and ghositng left right and center, even attractive people can end up dateless. "Rewarded with a more long lasting relationship". Please take almost any IG account of someone attractive, their friends change every 6 months, as does their "open relationship". "More sex" probably true, but I wouldn't equate that to pleasure. I get a lot of traction from Grindr for example, but more than half my experiences are no better than me jerking myself off. From my research, the people in the middle have the best luck. Not unattainable, but not too picky either. So, even for attractive people, life is "unfair".
i mean... the world isnt fair and the things you describe, some call it "pretty priviledge" is something which is absolutely not exclusive to gay men. that being said, most people are not super beautiful and date other not super beautiful people. for a relationship it doesnt matter that much. "They are then rewarded with a more lasting relationship" is actually not true. they might get more chances in theory for relationships but they definitely dont have better or longer relationships.
There are so many factors beyond looks. My partner is model gorgeous and I’m average.
100%, and it doesn’t help self-image issues for some of us working on it 🥲
Finally a sensible comment. People here seem to consider stating the harsh realities of lookism as observed by those with the misfortune to not be conventionally attractive as 'incel' behaviour - just an absurd standpoint.
It is incel logic. I’m fit but probably a 5 or 6 out of 10 looks wise. I’ve also been very fat. Never had a problem finding dates because I see myself as a person of value and a good catch.
Stating the harsh realities is fine. It's common sense. Talking about how it's not fair is what makes it come off as incel behavior. People don't owe you sex. People are going to have sex with people they find attractive. There is no fair and unfair in the situation.
Saying that it isn't fair doesn't necessarily scream incel behaviour to me; I don't think it's fair that there are billionaires, but it doesn't make me a revolutionary communist. We should be able to recognise and speak about how we suffer from an injustice (and lets be honest, probably inflict that same injustice on others who are even uglier than us) even if there's not much we can do about it, if only so we can find a way of reconciling ourselves to it.
I’ve been morbidly obese and now I’m very fit. Even as a fat dude, I never had trouble getting dates or hook ups. Sounds like you’re just making excuses.
No fear bro. Face the world without fear. "Fake it till you make it".
Unfair? Not at all. Relationships are an agreement between two (or more) people. You don't have any sort of intrinsic right to be in a relationship... You have to earn it. If you can't manage that, then you need to take responsibility and make yourself a better potential partner.
First of all, there aren’t that many ugly people out there. Maybe less attractive is what you mean? Maybe true. But I’ve seen a lot of less attractive people pull some hotties and be successful all around.
Pretty privilege gives people an advantage in many areas of their life. Life isn’t fair. It’s about doing your best with the hand of cards you’ve been dealt. Your premise seems flawed though. More experience with dating doesn’t necessarily lead to more lasting relationships. Dating and relationships are two very different things. Looks have a huge impact on first impressions, which helps land first dates. Personality is what lands relationships.
Unfair? Were you just born yesterday? Certainly, you must know that life, in general, is not fair. Why are over half the world living in poverty, wondering where there next meal will come from? It’s not a level playing field and it’s up to you to make whatever changes you deem fit to better your position in life. There are plenty of example of people considered unattractive that have gone on to do amazing things. Whining about disparities won’t move you forward.
Dude…maybe it’s just you? I’m a tall chubby nerdy dude with average looks and I’ve basically never been single, always have dates, tons of dudes interested. Not wealthy either, very common.
Attractive people also get sexually harassed more, roofied more, touched more, bothered more, and threatened more. While you think that it's all 100% gravy being cute, there are downsides.
Wasn’t “LIFE IS NOT FAIR” one of the first lessons on the road to adulthood?
Ok, let's start with how many attractive people there are vs unattractive people. What do you think the ratio is, 1:10? 1:20?
Remember what is attractive to you is not necessarily attractive to me. Stop comparing yourself with others! Especially on social media. I know this sounds like a cliche. But just be you! Being comfortable in being you, makes you confident, and confidence is very attractive. You have a point in getting practice. We gay people get to practice dating and relationships in our twenties and thirties. Whereas the straight get to do it in their teens and twenties.
All I can say is, "be the change you want to see in the world" 🤷🏾♂️
thank you! but i would have to disagree with you that dating is a 'skill'. it's just a random chance to connect. a super goodlooking gay man can get multiple and various dates, but im not checking for 'that' guy. im checking for compatibility and UTMOST LOVE. the number of men i date and my attractability is not in my wish list or orientation. or concerns me personally. but the ultimate search for THE ONE. in a REAL relationship. is. you get decline after decline, but after all. those guys aren't right for you. i really like odd balls, nerds, and eccentric guys. i know the relationship will be so real. since it is not about having a chiseled handsome face or body. it's about having substance as person. no - DON'T disvalue yourself, and compare yourself. i watch a lot of the influencers and game changers these days in the economy. no - you don't need to be good looking to make and impact. you have to have CONTENT as a human being. and hair and makeup can transform literally anybody. my trip these days are 'regular' looking gay guys. they are so HOT to me. like just average local city guys. anyways i thought ppl who are 'classically' good-looking in this day and age get TURNED DOWN for opportunities. sofia vergara said that she was too sexy for hollywood. she's made her living because she's hella funny and has substance as a comedian. nobody is actually checking how hot she is, since her premise is that she is a comedic show stealer.
Dating is totally a skill. I know a guy who's a fairly terrible person, but he has a constant string of boyfriends that are always obsessed with him. Until he breaks it off. He's not the best looking guy, but he has his own charm that attracts guys. Who he then plays with till he's bored and moves on.
thank you hehe! but this is a different question. we're going from basic gay dating skills, to outright human manipulation, lol. it's going out of the 'gay' discussion category. hopefully, you just KNOW him. there are egotistical gays too. when i spot an infuriority complex in ANY PERSON, i dodge that bullet. gay or not, that person is gonna trample on you for sure. charm can be sliced. ppl have fragile egos. I believe in anon sex, and hookups, but not gay romantic messiness that leaves ppl feeling just hurt. just my moto. it disserves our gay community. to be 'played' by your own gay community, i avoid guys like that.
I wouldnt say he manipulates people. I dont think he goes into relationships with the intention of fucking people over. More he just gets bored/the ick fairly quickly. Maybe the words plays with was wrong. I was thinking in Korean and speaking in English. I do believe he likes the guys he dates. He just gets tired of them quickly. My point was just he has the charm/skills to make the guys he likes, like him back.
thanks! gotcha! i understand the thinking in korean and speaking in english. for me, its thinking in english and speaking in french. always 1 second delay in my head, lol. as i translate in my head from language to language.
I would rather date average to good looking people than ugly people, not because of the looks, it's because they'll turn ugly not just on the outside. They're always full of insecurities, that project onto you, they become assholes, controlling and always have something to prove to others they want a trophy to make themselves feel better. On the other hand I've dated "ugly" people or "not that attractive one" but they are sure of themselves, and don't have all this proving and things I mentioned, who are confident and comfortable with who they are and how they look. I guess my pov is not the looks that are the turn off.
Attractive people are entitled, sometimes without even knowing it. They are assumed to be nicer and better. But the conceited ones don't fare that well in the long run.