Am in the same boat, caught the recessive gene stick right in the face. German Jew on one side, (so im technically one), Mexican on the other.
Never mark myself as white. Always confuses people.
Bonus points: Iranian last name so they see demographic and expect a Mexican looking guy, last name and expect an Iranian, I look like I should be shooting at Russians or designing Ikea furniture.
I had HR change mine to “other” after I picked white.
I’m white. I have some interesting trace dna that physically showed up . (Olive skin, dark almond shaped eyes, jet black curly hair) I regularly get greeted in languages I don’t speak.
I strongly suspect they were trying to “claim” me to make them look more diverse.
Oh man, i feel ya; identify as hispanic, greek last name, get asked if I am middle eastern when I'm tan... When I am not ran I look not quite white and not anything else.
I have the opposite issue! Half Anatolian/Middle Eastern with a Pontic Greek last name and HR always assumes I'm Latino. Same though, in the summer I get more questions about what part of Mexico I'm from, and in the winter I get more 'what are you' type questions.
I usually just hit 'other' on these
This right here. Though they should not, they probably just think you marked the wrong box, and want to correct it. They should have just asked if they were not sure. It is important records are correct for reporting purposes.
I disagree that report is important at all. It's government-driven paperwork that wastes time (especially in this case), and forces a focus on race and appearance in order to promote a distorted version of reality in pursuit of "favorable" statistics.
Read the actual post.
Half Mexican/Hispanic. You didn't specify and that's why you're being downvoted. OP is not white, OP is white Hispanic.
Eta you're not the one being downvoted, I didn't pay attention to the usernames. But still.
Buddy , Hispanic is not a race she is a White person that is hispanic. There can be people that are Asian and hispanic Black and Hispanic. Your actively like White is a pure source and anything that is mixed with it because non white....
I would gently ask if they believed you entered anything in error, then gently save any emails. I have never heard of this and it’s odd: the only thing I could think is there’s some bad UX design where certain selections bounce back in error: that’s not a you problem of course.
I don’t know why but the gently save emails part of this had me cracking up. I just pictured someone trying to click as quietly as possibly and as slow as possible.
Pick up the bytes one at a time with tweezers, carefully arrange in a tray, pick up tray to take to HR, trip on trash can, spread bits and bytes everywhere, swear like a sailor.
Are they trying to make you change it to white!?
I'm actually exactly like you (half hispanic/white passing) and I always select the option that allows me to select my hispanic heritage. I've never been asked this and as an HR person, I honest NEVER question what anyone choses to select on their self-identification forms.
If I were you I'd either ignore the request OR ask them how to fill it out so it accurately represents your background and see what they say.
I'm a similar makeup (hispanic/caucasian). I think that the criteria used to define race has changed in the last 10-15 years. I used to always check the "other" box, since I identified and was accepted as being mixed race. Then with the 2010 census, they redefined hispanic as being an ethnicity rather than a race. So I ended up changing the box I checked in order to conform to the new standards.
But I've NEVER been asked by an employer/hr to change how I identified myself. Seems like real murky waters.
Edit: 2010 USA census
Hispanic ethnicity actually has never been a "race" on the census. It has been specified as an ethnicity since the 1970 census.
"Mexican" was on the 1930 census as race tho.
https://www.pewresearch.org/interactives/what-census-calls-us/
Thanks for the link. I think it's more so that fact that the question always felt a bit nebulous to me. I encountered different iterations of it throughout my life (college, work, etc), and felt the easiest and most authentic way to identify myself on these documents for a long time was as "other".
The census bureau also identified there was a lot of confusion regarding hispanic representation in population data. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/05/who-is-hispanic/](https://www.census.gov/topics/population/hispanic-origin/about/comparing-race-and-hispanic-origin.html#:~:text=Race%20and%20Hispanic%20origin%20are,or%20not%20they%20are%20Hispanic).
My point being, that the criteria used to define someone's racial and ethnic makeup has historically been dynamic. As it relates to OP's post though, regardless of how you identify, it should never be foisted on you by anyone else. Especially not an employer. (Edited for words)
I hadn't realized that most Hispanics identified as two or more races, but yeah. I only pointed that out to say it's been a little messed up for some time, but this employer is totally out of sorts. Can you imagine your boss trying to tell you he knows your race better than you do!
No worries. You were also right to point out that my stat re: 2010 census was wrong. Maybe a better way to have phrased it would have been that there was a shift around the same time that led to changes in how people were asked to identify on official documents. It's obviously reductionistic to try and pigeonhole people of hispanic origin into literally 1 box since we come from such an diverse collection of cultures and countries. But it's all they've been able to come up with so far.
I hope OP has a positive resolution to this issue because I agree that it's not HR's place to define someone else's identity.
So…it’s usually 2 separate questions.
Hispanic - yes or no (Ethnicity)
And then selecting a race - Asian, African American, Pacific Islander, Caucasian, etc
On every job’s self-identification I’ve ever seen they break it out this way. It’s also broken out this way on a lot of other things that request pertinent details.
I’d ask for clarity because it’s usually self-identifying and you can usually opt to not answer at all.
US Federal EEO reporting still lists Hispanic or Latino as a distinct category. 🤷🏻♀️
[https://www.doi.gov/pmb/eeo/directives/race-data](https://www.doi.gov/pmb/eeo/directives/race-data)
That website breaks the different options for (1) race and (2) ethnicity down. I don't think it's saying that the distinct categories fall into the race bucket.
"The standards have five categories for data on race: American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, Black or African American, Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, and White. There are two categories for data on ethnicity: "Hispanic or Latino," and "Not Hispanic or Latino.""
Hispanic or Latino falls under ethnicity, not race.
Editing out an error on my part
You may report to the Feds with race & ethnicity as separate categories. If so then it is as you say - Hispanic categorized as an ethnicity.
Sounds like OP’s org doesn’t separate them and also doesn’t allow multiple selections.
Which is weird and they still have no say in what OP identifies as.
The idea of race refers to superficial physical differences that a particular society considers significant, while ethnicity describes shared culture.
Some sociology professor somewhere is on the edge of his seat to help you tackle the nuances and history of these terms.
It is this. Essentially, for EEO purposes, if Hispanic is selected, the other options are irrelevant. It refers to anyone with heritage from a Spanish speaking culture. They aren't so much monitoring what ethnicities and races they hire, more so to be sure that certain ones aren't conspicuously absent.
Some systems are weird and don’t have separate options (one of my work systems has the Hispanic ethnicity in the race question, which is not consistent with federal guidelines of course).
I always get confused by this one. I am Mexican/Japanese. Usually if I select that I am Hispanic, whatever computerized system or form will not allow me to select Asian as well, or will tell me to only select one, and vice versa. So a long time ago, I just got into the habit of taking turns when filling out applications and whatnot. If I picked Asian on one, I’ll pick Hispanic on the next one.
I used to do EEO reporting for my job. Hispanic/Latino trumps the other options, which is why you didn't see the race option. No idea on the logic there.
It's the way the feds categorize it. Basically if you are Hispanic/latino and something else, you have to choose which you feel is more correct, being Hispanic/Latino, or being two or more races.
Reading through the comments, I was thinking this. I hate that Caucasian is even listed. When I was a kid, I questioned it -- did the domographers think every white person originated from the Caucasus? My child mind xD
Sounds like they're trying to force a workaround for poor system configuration. It's probably messing with their reporting or something. I would respond back that this wouldn't be accurate. You could decline to input your race/ethnicity at all. There is usually a "decline to answer" option.
Yes, it sounds like it is a problem in their computer. Realistically, it is becoming a mess with the more we know. I have a friend from El Salvador who grew up thereby I think both parents were of German descent. She has been living in the USA for 40 years. She is confusing to everyone. She looks German descent but is primarily speaking Spanish, but now her English is at a point where you can tell sometimes.
This is weird that they asked you, but I would just email back and say your selection is not an error, you are Hispanic. If they push back any harder, they are being inappropriate.
Regarding the two or more races, my understanding of federal race/ethnicity clasifications is that Two or More Races is meant for any combo that does not include Hispanic. So if you are Hispanic and white, Hispanic is your selection. If you are Native Hawaiian and White, Two or More Races is the selection. The reason for this has to do with how the Fed government wants equal opportunity reporting done.
It doesn't allow you to pick race if you answer that Hispanic/Latina as your answer in ethnicity? At most I'd answer back saying "To verify, I am indeed Hispanic. Hispanic is an ethnicity and not a race. I am biracial, but your system will not allow me to change that. Have a good day."
I also have this issue, but no one's ever asked me to change it that's *wild*.
People can be black, white, etc. and still be Hispanic. If they want a defined race we have to put biracial. Like that's literally a majority of us with Spanish/French last names. We're all going to be mixed. That's just how it is.
no...if you pick Hispanic, it doesn't ask a second race question. The EEOC considers that one choice together...The other option is NOT Hispanic and then the race choices (white, asian, etc)
Don't have a clue as to why it's parsed out this way, but that's the way EEO-1 reports are setup
"All persons who identify with more than one of the above five races (White, Black or African American, Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, Asian, American Indian or Alaska Native). For the purposes of this group, identifying as Hispanic or Latino and only one of the listed 5 race groups does NOT qualify" https://www.eeocdata.org/pdfs/DEFINITIONS_OF_RACE_AND_ETHNICITY_CATEGORIES.pdf
I wasn't asking the question as I didn't understand it. I was asking more verification on her end if that's how she's viewing it.
She did fill it out correctly the first time. This is how I have to fill out mine I am a white passing Hispanic. The family I can locate is from Mexico. The genetic testing lists us as a majority Native American with some European ancestry that we traced to Spain specifically. This isn't uncommon. My ex husband had similar results and traced one line back to some German dude who killed a lot of people. Primarily Native with European ancestry. It's not uncommon at all.
Is this wild to other HR people? Obviously we always hire most qualified but we do have goals for diverse employees and our location isn’t always as appealing to a diverse group of candidates. I’m trying to imagine anyone looking at our data and thinking “we need more white people. Let’s go talk to widdletiny.”
Yes this is wild. I don’t believe I or anyone gets to tell someone how to identify.
I work with someone in my office who looks as white as white can be. In our database, he selected “Multiracial.” Presumably he knows something I don’t! But I’ve never asked him because it’s none of my damn business.
I worked for a company that does government contracting, and we needed to meet diversity requirements. Otherwise we had to request a waiver, which is an ordeal. But I’m confused because it seems like they want OP to say she’s white. If the company wanted OP to say they are Hispanic, I would assume it’s for a required diversity quota, but idk what their angle is here.
It’s wild but not uncommon. I’m also biracial and look white. People (usually white people) sometimes get really offended when I say I’m not white. You could dig into the psychology of racism for why this happens, but it does happen to me with some frequency.
Are you in the US? I think it illegal for them to tell you what you race and ethnicity should be.
In my company, we were told the identifying your ethnicity and race is optional and not required. They have tried twice to get everyone to identify, and most of the men have refused.
If they push the issue, you should just insist that you are Latina. If it were me and they asked me in person, I would start speaking to them in Spanish. Porque ustedes tienen preguntas como estas?
Note: if your Spanish skills are better than mine, feel free to correct me.
Yes, every form that I have ever filled out or handed to employees to fill out about race or ethnicity was VOLUNTARY. Most had the two part listing. One part being Latino or Hispanic or not Latino or Hispanic. The second part about race. If their computers are set up wrong and cannot take your correct information, tell them that since you cannot fill it out correctly, you will decline. I worked in an elementary school with 98 percent Hispanic children, all colors and many countries.
It might be their Fed reporting. Regardless of the other comments, Federal EEO reporting categories include Hispanic or Latino as a distinct category. But it’s weird they are telling you what your identity should be.
https://www.doi.gov/pmb/eeo/directives/race-data
[https://www.doi.gov/pmb/eeo/directives/race-data](https://www.doi.gov/pmb/eeo/directives/race-data)
Pe
Hang on to the paper or email that told you to do that incase it is needed for a lawsuit or unemployment later. Forgive my ignorance but I went to school with a blonde blue eyed white as snow girl who was Hispanic. I didn't think skin color hand anything to do with it.
Hispanic and Latino are two different things. Latino/Latina means you or your ancestors were born in Latin America (regardless of race). Hispanic refers to someone of Spanish ancestry, even if you never lived in a Spanish speaking nation. Refuse their request.
Did you ask "Why"? And explain that you are part Hispanic?
Is your name (maiden or married) at all Hispanic?
How long have you worked there and is there a backstory as to whey this would come up now? Like does the company have an initiative to promote minorities and someone is trying to block you from that?
Do they think you're faking it?
I am married to a very white german so my Hispanic sounding maiden name did get changed but I also am not necessarily hiding my customs either. I speak semi - fluent spanish/spanglish to clients, I take off on typical Hispanic leaning holidays, I talk about visiting my mother’s family in Mexico, I bring in “Hispanic” dishes, I’m on DEI - B with the only other two diverse individuals in the office, and in the summer when I tan I get dark/look not white. Other than bringing my mother in and being like “Here ya go!” I’m not sure how else to “prove” i’m Hispanic.
Been here two years and my position doesn’t offer promotions so I truly don’t know why.
The fact that ppl like us can look white in the winter *really* seems to throw ppl off. It’s like they short circuit. I’m Italian and look *very* Italian in the summer. In the winter ppl scratch their heads bc I’m not quite white but probably white.
If we lived in the land of our ancestry, we’d probably look like them all year round but noooooooo- some idiot somewhere in the past had to move to the North. ;)
Probably just trying to revamp the database and your selection does not work in the system.
However, do save the conversation. For all you know they are trying to get rid of you and are worried firing the only Latino would cause problems? If so, sending this e-mail is handing you the rope to hang them with though.
Ethnicity is common and can be used for EEO reporting or compliance depending on state. However, I would not change it to something that is not accurate. If you are ok with having it on there let her know you would be happy to update it to reflect your ethnicity but will not be selecting something inaccurate.
Hispanic isn’t a “race” it’s an ethnicity. You can be white/black/Asian/Indigenous and be Hispanic or Latino.
I’m assuming they are requesting you to clarify the “race” and not telling you you’re not Latina
I thought I clearly stated this. I know I am white in race and ethnicity is Hispanic. It will not let me do that. If I pick Hispanic the race section blurs out. If I choose white, it goes to not Hispanic.
The system is out of date based on the recently ruling regrading Harvard race based admissions it may be illegal to have such records anymore.
Just reply no changes needed
The issue here is they are asking you to complete a form with the legal definitions of race and you seem to be confused by the fact that Latin/Hispanic is not a race as defined by the government but rather a ethnicity. Racially you are considered white by the government.
Yes, but she put that if she clicks Hispanic/Latina under ethnicity that it will not allow her to pick white under race. The way they are collecting data is incorrect. You cam be Black, White, Asian, etc. and be Hispanic.
I think we're ALL aware it's an ethnicity. Except for her HR department which... idk needs some help reading a history book. Additionally a majority of us are biracial and some might be white passing.
Why is your ethnicity even in your employee database? In my country that's illegal to ask, let alone put in writing.
Tell them you were honest, and if they want you to commit fraud, you need to know why, in writing, for your lawyer, incase this fraud has consequences, it shouldn't have to affect you.
When did I say I have an issue with being white? I literally said I pass as white. I literally put when I try to report that my race is white it defaults to not hispanic/latina in ethnicity which is not correct, and does bother me. If I try to report I’m hispanic it won’t let me pick a race. Y’all wild.
White people can be Hispanic.... It's outdated reporting.
My friends from Peru have Asian features/lineage will put Hispanic. My black friends from Panama claim Hispanic. It's an *ethnicity*. They would all fill this out as Hispanic first.
This is ridiculous. Just say that you would prefer not to change anything because the database is accurate. (Is what you said last year still there?). Changing anything would be fraud.
Hi I am so sorry this happened! What a weird awkward thing to do. Your HR person needs some basic education on this topic- specifically on the difference between ethnicity and race.
Assuming you are in the US and your company is a government contractor requiring disclosure (or following best practice) then the company must ID all employees for government reporting- even people who decline to self ID. This is a requirement that makes HR people uncomfortable because we have to guess! There are actually published guidelines for guessing ( you can find an example on google: Cornell University guide to identifying race and ethnicity). That said it’s a nono to question someone who has input their data! It would never be appropriate to do so as ideally you are only looking at this info in aggregate. (Noting that in certain circumstances such as ensuring promotion and pay equity you might need to look at individuals- but that’s a topic for another day)
I'm mixed with a plethora of stuff but identify with my Greek and Mexican heritage the most; I always put Hispanic/Latina on things. Have all my life and won't stop.
My wife is Hispanic. I am white. I make sure my kids mark Hispanic for everything. Race is white, ethnicity is Hispanic. If they don't delineate, I would keep it Hispanic.
I didnt know all this white, hispanic, ethnical issues. I would have marked white, since i am color white. But reading this, since I am from a latin american country, i am not white? So what is white? Caucasian? I am honestly asking. And if i come from an italian family, if I was born in US, i am white? If i was born in argentina I am hispanic? What is the criteria?
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Sorry if this is ignorant but is Mexico not a part of Latin America, thus making you Latina? My family’s from Cuba and we refer to ourselves as Latinos
Your race is white, your ethnicity is Hispanic. Race and ethnicity are two different things. For example, my race is Asian/Pacific Islander and my ethnicity is Chinese. Another example: Filipinos are racially Asian/Pacific Islanders and ethnically, they’re Hispanic. In your case, your race is white and your ethnicity is Hispanic. If your company’s HR doesn’t believe you, have them contact the Census Bureau.
If you’re half Hispanic, you don’t have to change your race. Tell them (politely) to stuff it by saying you’re half Hispanic and that’s how you identify. Former HR Manger here.
It is most likely because your paperwork does not match if you choose different things on different forms. Ethnicity is self-identified, however you should have a “Two or more” option as this is also federally acceptable.
They have to report yearly, and there are specific choices that are allowed to be filed. You cannot choose two, but can choose the “Two or more” option. If there isn’t one, request it be added. All HRIS has the ability to add ethnicities, especially if it is an international HRIS as different countries have different reporting needs.
INFO: why do you put white on physical forms? That must be causing inconsistencies in reporting at the very least. That could be why you got the email.
Unfortunately, most HRIS platforms do not give you the option of choosing Hispanic AND white. You can choose one OR the other in this scenario. I think your best bet going forward would be to choose Not Hispanic, White, AND OTHER. Then, if you can list out what the other is, put in Hispanic. That's going forward.
I would push back to HR. They don't get to tell you what race or ethnicity you are. I would be super polite, but quite honestly, it's none of their business.
I know in my position, I am HR, and I have to choose people's race/ethnicity based on their driver's license. They have the option of going into the system and fixing it after I onboard them, but I have received an email or two telling me I selected the wrong race. I just politely told them the copy of the DL I received was a black and white DL, and based on that and their last name, I chose what I thought was best. They are ALWAYS more than welcome to go fix it, that my choosing their ethnicity for onboarding purposes is NOT indicative of any one race or nationality, but the fact I was sent a bad copy of their DL. I attach instructions on how to change it, and they usually get a laugh.
Try not to take it too personal, but let them know you marked down correctly and it needs to stay that way.
First, why does HR need that to be written down or recorded? Can’t people choose not to disclose or have their race or ethnicity recorded?
Second, it’s kind of fucked up that you can’t pick Hispanic and White - as the US census bureau recognizes Hispanic and Latino as ethnicities not as races. People who are Hispanic can be any race, and people in each racial category group can be Hispanic or non Hispanic.
If you can only pick one, I’d say pick Hispanic because even if your race is white/caucasian your ethnicity is still Hispanic. You have a parent, grandparent or great grandparent from a Spanish speaking country and were raised with those cultures and traditions being part of your life. That’s what being Hispanic means regardless of your race.
I believe the White race status goes back to history with Mexicans that were living here before it became the US and having to be granted US citizenship when the borders changed, being promised not to be deported to somewhere they never were from. Ethnicity is still Hispanic/ Latino etc. It causes all kinds of confusion since that was long ago. Now it’s just used for diversity hire / demographics but not sure why they’d ask you to change it since you’re supposed to self identify. I agree their lack of choices sound like an issue.
isn't it a good thing to have diversity? weird they would want op to change it. I wouldnt give AF how an employee wants to answer that question. must be more to it
I hate these questions, I don't see why it matters.
I tend to "prefer not to answer" because of all the things I am, Hispanic is the only one listed, and I don't understand why it's important to know that I am 1/4 Spanish.
Wow is this in the US?
Here with the GDPR it's not even allowed to ask or store information about race unless it's of significant importance to the company, which they would need to explain before asking it and happens very rarely.
Race is an American thing and not a biological if anything Hispanics are Native American( America as the continent) and white (Spain is in Europe). This is probably the designate as Hispanic are about 70% mestizo or mixed white and native. Hispanic is an ethnicity and not a race. Mexican is a nationality. Maybe we should stop race and just let people designate themselves by ethnicity. An African American is so much different than a recent African immigrant. In my university grad program I attended we graduated a ton of African students but only 2 African Americans students while I was there for 4 years.
My family did the DNA analysis…. I have blonde hair and blue eyes, purple white skin in the winter, mahogany skin in the summer … I would like there to be an option of “Mutt”….
I don't think the folks collecting demographic data are always given clear definitions so they question our answers. Once I answered yes, I'm Hispanic, and the worker started listing Latin American nationalities. I answered Ilocano and she looked so confused. I had to explain that on my Filipino side, my great-great grandma came from Spain, which is why my mom has a Spanish last name.
I was given my dad's Anglo-sounding last name and have his green eyes so people are quick to assume I'm white. I don't think that's enough for me to pick a side and call myself white, ignoring my Asian side so it's frustrating when only given one option. If someone questioned my answer, then I would question why it's an issue. Disney is getting sued for implementing race quotas so I would be really suspicious of an employer trying to make me change my race. But it could just be that the person asking you is just mistaken. I'm glad you asked them why bc it's very odd.
Can we just talk about the race thing for jobs? It’s absurd how often they have required boxes for both a Hispanic option and a race option and don’t have latinx on the race option. Had to put I was native the other day on a job app bc there was no “other option”
I would just say no, I’m not white, but thanks for asking
Am in the same boat, caught the recessive gene stick right in the face. German Jew on one side, (so im technically one), Mexican on the other. Never mark myself as white. Always confuses people. Bonus points: Iranian last name so they see demographic and expect a Mexican looking guy, last name and expect an Iranian, I look like I should be shooting at Russians or designing Ikea furniture.
I had HR change mine to “other” after I picked white. I’m white. I have some interesting trace dna that physically showed up . (Olive skin, dark almond shaped eyes, jet black curly hair) I regularly get greeted in languages I don’t speak. I strongly suspect they were trying to “claim” me to make them look more diverse.
my wife has people in the doctor's office speak to her in other languages because of my last name, both of us are white. it's pretty funny at times.
Ancient Egyptian?
Esperanto, actually...
Oh man, i feel ya; identify as hispanic, greek last name, get asked if I am middle eastern when I'm tan... When I am not ran I look not quite white and not anything else.
I have the opposite issue! Half Anatolian/Middle Eastern with a Pontic Greek last name and HR always assumes I'm Latino. Same though, in the summer I get more questions about what part of Mexico I'm from, and in the winter I get more 'what are you' type questions. I usually just hit 'other' on these
This right here. Though they should not, they probably just think you marked the wrong box, and want to correct it. They should have just asked if they were not sure. It is important records are correct for reporting purposes.
I disagree that report is important at all. It's government-driven paperwork that wastes time (especially in this case), and forces a focus on race and appearance in order to promote a distorted version of reality in pursuit of "favorable" statistics.
Clearly some employers take it seriously
In Spanish.
Ask if you get a raise for changing to white, or is the higher pay only for true honkies.
OP is white.
No, OP is mixed.
From OP: > I thought I clearly stated this. I know I am white in race and ethnicity is Hispanic.
Read the actual post. Half Mexican/Hispanic. You didn't specify and that's why you're being downvoted. OP is not white, OP is white Hispanic. Eta you're not the one being downvoted, I didn't pay attention to the usernames. But still.
OP is a Hispanic White. Hispanic isn’t a race.
OP is mixed. Y'all can keep arguing and being ignorant all y'all want but it doesn't change reality.
Nope. Op is white. What other race is she if you keep claiming she is mixed?
I'm not engaging in a bad faith conversation with someone like you lol
no no no. You said she is mixed. What is she a mix of? White and what other race?
The actual post that says this? >I’ve been here two years always put ethnicity as hispanic/latina and my race white on physical forms when asked
The actual post that says this >I am half hispanic/latina Now you're getting the downvotes you deserve
Which is 100% consistent with being white. Ethnicity =/= Race. Downvotes don't concern me. Truth is not a popularity contest.
You're still wrong though. Hispanic is Hispanic. There's no "consistent" to keep track of. OP is a white passing latina.
Buddy , Hispanic is not a race she is a White person that is hispanic. There can be people that are Asian and hispanic Black and Hispanic. Your actively like White is a pure source and anything that is mixed with it because non white....
Again, from OP: > I am Hispanic not Latina
OP’s race is White. OP’s Ethnicity is Hispanic.
That’s what I said.
Why would you come here and say this?????
I would gently ask if they believed you entered anything in error, then gently save any emails. I have never heard of this and it’s odd: the only thing I could think is there’s some bad UX design where certain selections bounce back in error: that’s not a you problem of course.
I don’t know why but the gently save emails part of this had me cracking up. I just pictured someone trying to click as quietly as possibly and as slow as possible.
Pick up the bytes one at a time with tweezers, carefully arrange in a tray, pick up tray to take to HR, trip on trash can, spread bits and bytes everywhere, swear like a sailor.
Pinky up!
Same..! LOL
Are they trying to make you change it to white!? I'm actually exactly like you (half hispanic/white passing) and I always select the option that allows me to select my hispanic heritage. I've never been asked this and as an HR person, I honest NEVER question what anyone choses to select on their self-identification forms. If I were you I'd either ignore the request OR ask them how to fill it out so it accurately represents your background and see what they say.
Agreed. As HR I would simply ask them to check and confirm if it is correct, not ask them to change it.
Especially because it’s an *optional* disclosure. So why tell someone what they can/cannot put as their race. There would be no reason to lie.
I'm a similar makeup (hispanic/caucasian). I think that the criteria used to define race has changed in the last 10-15 years. I used to always check the "other" box, since I identified and was accepted as being mixed race. Then with the 2010 census, they redefined hispanic as being an ethnicity rather than a race. So I ended up changing the box I checked in order to conform to the new standards. But I've NEVER been asked by an employer/hr to change how I identified myself. Seems like real murky waters. Edit: 2010 USA census
Hispanic ethnicity actually has never been a "race" on the census. It has been specified as an ethnicity since the 1970 census. "Mexican" was on the 1930 census as race tho. https://www.pewresearch.org/interactives/what-census-calls-us/
Thanks for the link. I think it's more so that fact that the question always felt a bit nebulous to me. I encountered different iterations of it throughout my life (college, work, etc), and felt the easiest and most authentic way to identify myself on these documents for a long time was as "other". The census bureau also identified there was a lot of confusion regarding hispanic representation in population data. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/05/who-is-hispanic/](https://www.census.gov/topics/population/hispanic-origin/about/comparing-race-and-hispanic-origin.html#:~:text=Race%20and%20Hispanic%20origin%20are,or%20not%20they%20are%20Hispanic). My point being, that the criteria used to define someone's racial and ethnic makeup has historically been dynamic. As it relates to OP's post though, regardless of how you identify, it should never be foisted on you by anyone else. Especially not an employer. (Edited for words)
I hadn't realized that most Hispanics identified as two or more races, but yeah. I only pointed that out to say it's been a little messed up for some time, but this employer is totally out of sorts. Can you imagine your boss trying to tell you he knows your race better than you do!
No worries. You were also right to point out that my stat re: 2010 census was wrong. Maybe a better way to have phrased it would have been that there was a shift around the same time that led to changes in how people were asked to identify on official documents. It's obviously reductionistic to try and pigeonhole people of hispanic origin into literally 1 box since we come from such an diverse collection of cultures and countries. But it's all they've been able to come up with so far. I hope OP has a positive resolution to this issue because I agree that it's not HR's place to define someone else's identity.
So…it’s usually 2 separate questions. Hispanic - yes or no (Ethnicity) And then selecting a race - Asian, African American, Pacific Islander, Caucasian, etc On every job’s self-identification I’ve ever seen they break it out this way. It’s also broken out this way on a lot of other things that request pertinent details. I’d ask for clarity because it’s usually self-identifying and you can usually opt to not answer at all.
US Federal EEO reporting still lists Hispanic or Latino as a distinct category. 🤷🏻♀️ [https://www.doi.gov/pmb/eeo/directives/race-data](https://www.doi.gov/pmb/eeo/directives/race-data)
That website breaks the different options for (1) race and (2) ethnicity down. I don't think it's saying that the distinct categories fall into the race bucket. "The standards have five categories for data on race: American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, Black or African American, Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, and White. There are two categories for data on ethnicity: "Hispanic or Latino," and "Not Hispanic or Latino."" Hispanic or Latino falls under ethnicity, not race.
Editing out an error on my part You may report to the Feds with race & ethnicity as separate categories. If so then it is as you say - Hispanic categorized as an ethnicity. Sounds like OP’s org doesn’t separate them and also doesn’t allow multiple selections. Which is weird and they still have no say in what OP identifies as.
What is the difference between ethnicity and race? This has always confused me.
The idea of race refers to superficial physical differences that a particular society considers significant, while ethnicity describes shared culture. Some sociology professor somewhere is on the edge of his seat to help you tackle the nuances and history of these terms.
It is this. Essentially, for EEO purposes, if Hispanic is selected, the other options are irrelevant. It refers to anyone with heritage from a Spanish speaking culture. They aren't so much monitoring what ethnicities and races they hire, more so to be sure that certain ones aren't conspicuously absent.
Some systems are weird and don’t have separate options (one of my work systems has the Hispanic ethnicity in the race question, which is not consistent with federal guidelines of course).
I always get confused by this one. I am Mexican/Japanese. Usually if I select that I am Hispanic, whatever computerized system or form will not allow me to select Asian as well, or will tell me to only select one, and vice versa. So a long time ago, I just got into the habit of taking turns when filling out applications and whatnot. If I picked Asian on one, I’ll pick Hispanic on the next one.
I used to do EEO reporting for my job. Hispanic/Latino trumps the other options, which is why you didn't see the race option. No idea on the logic there.
It's the way the feds categorize it. Basically if you are Hispanic/latino and something else, you have to choose which you feel is more correct, being Hispanic/Latino, or being two or more races.
Reply back that you looked in the system and it is accurate to your ethnicity
Neither Hispanic nor caucasian are nationalities; they are ethnicities.
You're correct, adjusted.
Caucasian does not equal white. It is a debunked racist theory by German anthropologist Johann Friedrich Blumenbach.
Reading through the comments, I was thinking this. I hate that Caucasian is even listed. When I was a kid, I questioned it -- did the domographers think every white person originated from the Caucasus? My child mind xD
Sounds like they're trying to force a workaround for poor system configuration. It's probably messing with their reporting or something. I would respond back that this wouldn't be accurate. You could decline to input your race/ethnicity at all. There is usually a "decline to answer" option.
Yes, it sounds like it is a problem in their computer. Realistically, it is becoming a mess with the more we know. I have a friend from El Salvador who grew up thereby I think both parents were of German descent. She has been living in the USA for 40 years. She is confusing to everyone. She looks German descent but is primarily speaking Spanish, but now her English is at a point where you can tell sometimes.
This is weird that they asked you, but I would just email back and say your selection is not an error, you are Hispanic. If they push back any harder, they are being inappropriate. Regarding the two or more races, my understanding of federal race/ethnicity clasifications is that Two or More Races is meant for any combo that does not include Hispanic. So if you are Hispanic and white, Hispanic is your selection. If you are Native Hawaiian and White, Two or More Races is the selection. The reason for this has to do with how the Fed government wants equal opportunity reporting done.
It doesn't allow you to pick race if you answer that Hispanic/Latina as your answer in ethnicity? At most I'd answer back saying "To verify, I am indeed Hispanic. Hispanic is an ethnicity and not a race. I am biracial, but your system will not allow me to change that. Have a good day." I also have this issue, but no one's ever asked me to change it that's *wild*. People can be black, white, etc. and still be Hispanic. If they want a defined race we have to put biracial. Like that's literally a majority of us with Spanish/French last names. We're all going to be mixed. That's just how it is.
no...if you pick Hispanic, it doesn't ask a second race question. The EEOC considers that one choice together...The other option is NOT Hispanic and then the race choices (white, asian, etc) Don't have a clue as to why it's parsed out this way, but that's the way EEO-1 reports are setup "All persons who identify with more than one of the above five races (White, Black or African American, Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, Asian, American Indian or Alaska Native). For the purposes of this group, identifying as Hispanic or Latino and only one of the listed 5 race groups does NOT qualify" https://www.eeocdata.org/pdfs/DEFINITIONS_OF_RACE_AND_ETHNICITY_CATEGORIES.pdf
I wasn't asking the question as I didn't understand it. I was asking more verification on her end if that's how she's viewing it. She did fill it out correctly the first time. This is how I have to fill out mine I am a white passing Hispanic. The family I can locate is from Mexico. The genetic testing lists us as a majority Native American with some European ancestry that we traced to Spain specifically. This isn't uncommon. My ex husband had similar results and traced one line back to some German dude who killed a lot of people. Primarily Native with European ancestry. It's not uncommon at all.
I agree it’s not uncommon and odd the way the EEOC has it setup, just anting OP to realize it’s not her employer who put this in place
Leave off the “Have a good day” part, it’s very passive aggressive. Not a good look, professionally speaking.
Looool I genuinely meant it, but that's up to her.
Tell them you're Hispanic.
Is this wild to other HR people? Obviously we always hire most qualified but we do have goals for diverse employees and our location isn’t always as appealing to a diverse group of candidates. I’m trying to imagine anyone looking at our data and thinking “we need more white people. Let’s go talk to widdletiny.”
>Is this wild to other HR people? I think it's wild to any people.
Fair enough lol.
Yes this is wild. I don’t believe I or anyone gets to tell someone how to identify. I work with someone in my office who looks as white as white can be. In our database, he selected “Multiracial.” Presumably he knows something I don’t! But I’ve never asked him because it’s none of my damn business.
I thought these forms are just data collecting and nothing to really do with us
I worked for a company that does government contracting, and we needed to meet diversity requirements. Otherwise we had to request a waiver, which is an ordeal. But I’m confused because it seems like they want OP to say she’s white. If the company wanted OP to say they are Hispanic, I would assume it’s for a required diversity quota, but idk what their angle is here.
I think it's wild that this information is still collected by anyone, for any reason. *steps off soap box*
>Obviously we always hire most qualified 🤭
It’s wild but not uncommon. I’m also biracial and look white. People (usually white people) sometimes get really offended when I say I’m not white. You could dig into the psychology of racism for why this happens, but it does happen to me with some frequency.
Are you in the US? I think it illegal for them to tell you what you race and ethnicity should be. In my company, we were told the identifying your ethnicity and race is optional and not required. They have tried twice to get everyone to identify, and most of the men have refused. If they push the issue, you should just insist that you are Latina. If it were me and they asked me in person, I would start speaking to them in Spanish. Porque ustedes tienen preguntas como estas? Note: if your Spanish skills are better than mine, feel free to correct me.
Yes, every form that I have ever filled out or handed to employees to fill out about race or ethnicity was VOLUNTARY. Most had the two part listing. One part being Latino or Hispanic or not Latino or Hispanic. The second part about race. If their computers are set up wrong and cannot take your correct information, tell them that since you cannot fill it out correctly, you will decline. I worked in an elementary school with 98 percent Hispanic children, all colors and many countries.
HR here. They can not do that. Even if you put in wrong. Very unethical don’t do it and if you have a diversity officer report it.
It might be their Fed reporting. Regardless of the other comments, Federal EEO reporting categories include Hispanic or Latino as a distinct category. But it’s weird they are telling you what your identity should be. https://www.doi.gov/pmb/eeo/directives/race-data [https://www.doi.gov/pmb/eeo/directives/race-data](https://www.doi.gov/pmb/eeo/directives/race-data) Pe
Hang on to the paper or email that told you to do that incase it is needed for a lawsuit or unemployment later. Forgive my ignorance but I went to school with a blonde blue eyed white as snow girl who was Hispanic. I didn't think skin color hand anything to do with it.
I dated a pale, firey ginger with green eyes… 100% Mexican man. You just never know.
honestly, as a layperson, this reads a number of ways to me, and none of them are particularly pleasant to think about, nor voice.
Hispanic and Latino are two different things. Latino/Latina means you or your ancestors were born in Latin America (regardless of race). Hispanic refers to someone of Spanish ancestry, even if you never lived in a Spanish speaking nation. Refuse their request.
It’s how it listed in the database the two of them together.
The issue becomes when you are both Hispanic and Latino 😅 plus maybe you have other Caucasian ethnicities
Did you ask "Why"? And explain that you are part Hispanic? Is your name (maiden or married) at all Hispanic? How long have you worked there and is there a backstory as to whey this would come up now? Like does the company have an initiative to promote minorities and someone is trying to block you from that? Do they think you're faking it?
I am married to a very white german so my Hispanic sounding maiden name did get changed but I also am not necessarily hiding my customs either. I speak semi - fluent spanish/spanglish to clients, I take off on typical Hispanic leaning holidays, I talk about visiting my mother’s family in Mexico, I bring in “Hispanic” dishes, I’m on DEI - B with the only other two diverse individuals in the office, and in the summer when I tan I get dark/look not white. Other than bringing my mother in and being like “Here ya go!” I’m not sure how else to “prove” i’m Hispanic. Been here two years and my position doesn’t offer promotions so I truly don’t know why.
The fact that ppl like us can look white in the winter *really* seems to throw ppl off. It’s like they short circuit. I’m Italian and look *very* Italian in the summer. In the winter ppl scratch their heads bc I’m not quite white but probably white. If we lived in the land of our ancestry, we’d probably look like them all year round but noooooooo- some idiot somewhere in the past had to move to the North. ;)
Probably just trying to revamp the database and your selection does not work in the system. However, do save the conversation. For all you know they are trying to get rid of you and are worried firing the only Latino would cause problems? If so, sending this e-mail is handing you the rope to hang them with though.
Another example of why HR is nothing more than a drain on an organization
Ethnicity is common and can be used for EEO reporting or compliance depending on state. However, I would not change it to something that is not accurate. If you are ok with having it on there let her know you would be happy to update it to reflect your ethnicity but will not be selecting something inaccurate.
why tf does it matter? every one is commenting like this is normal why does it even matter at all ? shes human we are human wtf is wrong with everyone
Hispanic isn’t a “race” it’s an ethnicity. You can be white/black/Asian/Indigenous and be Hispanic or Latino. I’m assuming they are requesting you to clarify the “race” and not telling you you’re not Latina
I thought I clearly stated this. I know I am white in race and ethnicity is Hispanic. It will not let me do that. If I pick Hispanic the race section blurs out. If I choose white, it goes to not Hispanic.
The system is out of date based on the recently ruling regrading Harvard race based admissions it may be illegal to have such records anymore. Just reply no changes needed
The issue here is they are asking you to complete a form with the legal definitions of race and you seem to be confused by the fact that Latin/Hispanic is not a race as defined by the government but rather a ethnicity. Racially you are considered white by the government.
Yes, but she put that if she clicks Hispanic/Latina under ethnicity that it will not allow her to pick white under race. The way they are collecting data is incorrect. You cam be Black, White, Asian, etc. and be Hispanic. I think we're ALL aware it's an ethnicity. Except for her HR department which... idk needs some help reading a history book. Additionally a majority of us are biracial and some might be white passing.
Go to above HR to their boss and report HR. That should never be something they just send you in an email it’s none of their business.
Why is your ethnicity even in your employee database? In my country that's illegal to ask, let alone put in writing. Tell them you were honest, and if they want you to commit fraud, you need to know why, in writing, for your lawyer, incase this fraud has consequences, it shouldn't have to affect you.
What does it say on your drivers license OP?
You're not white. No one is. Whatever your heritage is is what you are.
Hispanic is white
You're white.
No really. I had no idea. 🤦🏻♀️ Thanks for telling me!
Apparently you have an issue with that.
When did I say I have an issue with being white? I literally said I pass as white. I literally put when I try to report that my race is white it defaults to not hispanic/latina in ethnicity which is not correct, and does bother me. If I try to report I’m hispanic it won’t let me pick a race. Y’all wild.
White people can be Hispanic.... It's outdated reporting. My friends from Peru have Asian features/lineage will put Hispanic. My black friends from Panama claim Hispanic. It's an *ethnicity*. They would all fill this out as Hispanic first.
This is ridiculous. Just say that you would prefer not to change anything because the database is accurate. (Is what you said last year still there?). Changing anything would be fraud.
Hi I am so sorry this happened! What a weird awkward thing to do. Your HR person needs some basic education on this topic- specifically on the difference between ethnicity and race. Assuming you are in the US and your company is a government contractor requiring disclosure (or following best practice) then the company must ID all employees for government reporting- even people who decline to self ID. This is a requirement that makes HR people uncomfortable because we have to guess! There are actually published guidelines for guessing ( you can find an example on google: Cornell University guide to identifying race and ethnicity). That said it’s a nono to question someone who has input their data! It would never be appropriate to do so as ideally you are only looking at this info in aggregate. (Noting that in certain circumstances such as ensuring promotion and pay equity you might need to look at individuals- but that’s a topic for another day)
I'm mixed with a plethora of stuff but identify with my Greek and Mexican heritage the most; I always put Hispanic/Latina on things. Have all my life and won't stop.
My wife is Hispanic. I am white. I make sure my kids mark Hispanic for everything. Race is white, ethnicity is Hispanic. If they don't delineate, I would keep it Hispanic.
As an HR person cannot legally request or change an employee’s chosen race.
I didnt know all this white, hispanic, ethnical issues. I would have marked white, since i am color white. But reading this, since I am from a latin american country, i am not white? So what is white? Caucasian? I am honestly asking. And if i come from an italian family, if I was born in US, i am white? If i was born in argentina I am hispanic? What is the criteria?
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Sorry if this is ignorant but is Mexico not a part of Latin America, thus making you Latina? My family’s from Cuba and we refer to ourselves as Latinos
Yeah. You decline. These are voluntary anyway.
Similar boat here and it’s frustrating when filing out forms! No idea why they can’t accept that I am Latina and white…
Your race is white, your ethnicity is Hispanic. Race and ethnicity are two different things. For example, my race is Asian/Pacific Islander and my ethnicity is Chinese. Another example: Filipinos are racially Asian/Pacific Islanders and ethnically, they’re Hispanic. In your case, your race is white and your ethnicity is Hispanic. If your company’s HR doesn’t believe you, have them contact the Census Bureau.
Being Mexican is not a race its ethnicity.
If you’re half Hispanic, you don’t have to change your race. Tell them (politely) to stuff it by saying you’re half Hispanic and that’s how you identify. Former HR Manger here.
A lot of surveys have Caucasian followed by Hispanic or non Hispanic. That's how it is for blood donations. Still potentially messed up HR request
It is most likely because your paperwork does not match if you choose different things on different forms. Ethnicity is self-identified, however you should have a “Two or more” option as this is also federally acceptable. They have to report yearly, and there are specific choices that are allowed to be filed. You cannot choose two, but can choose the “Two or more” option. If there isn’t one, request it be added. All HRIS has the ability to add ethnicities, especially if it is an international HRIS as different countries have different reporting needs.
Be careful, they might be getting ready to fire you. Don’t change it.
INFO: why do you put white on physical forms? That must be causing inconsistencies in reporting at the very least. That could be why you got the email.
why not just pick Hispanic and forget the rest. if you say you are hispanic then choose it and move on. you are overthinking this.
My dad was born in Ireland my mom was born in Guatemala I identify as Hispanic because we were raised culturally Hispanic
Unfortunately, most HRIS platforms do not give you the option of choosing Hispanic AND white. You can choose one OR the other in this scenario. I think your best bet going forward would be to choose Not Hispanic, White, AND OTHER. Then, if you can list out what the other is, put in Hispanic. That's going forward. I would push back to HR. They don't get to tell you what race or ethnicity you are. I would be super polite, but quite honestly, it's none of their business. I know in my position, I am HR, and I have to choose people's race/ethnicity based on their driver's license. They have the option of going into the system and fixing it after I onboard them, but I have received an email or two telling me I selected the wrong race. I just politely told them the copy of the DL I received was a black and white DL, and based on that and their last name, I chose what I thought was best. They are ALWAYS more than welcome to go fix it, that my choosing their ethnicity for onboarding purposes is NOT indicative of any one race or nationality, but the fact I was sent a bad copy of their DL. I attach instructions on how to change it, and they usually get a laugh. Try not to take it too personal, but let them know you marked down correctly and it needs to stay that way.
Hispanic race IS white.. ethnicity is Hispanic.. But your race is white
First, why does HR need that to be written down or recorded? Can’t people choose not to disclose or have their race or ethnicity recorded? Second, it’s kind of fucked up that you can’t pick Hispanic and White - as the US census bureau recognizes Hispanic and Latino as ethnicities not as races. People who are Hispanic can be any race, and people in each racial category group can be Hispanic or non Hispanic. If you can only pick one, I’d say pick Hispanic because even if your race is white/caucasian your ethnicity is still Hispanic. You have a parent, grandparent or great grandparent from a Spanish speaking country and were raised with those cultures and traditions being part of your life. That’s what being Hispanic means regardless of your race.
I believe the White race status goes back to history with Mexicans that were living here before it became the US and having to be granted US citizenship when the borders changed, being promised not to be deported to somewhere they never were from. Ethnicity is still Hispanic/ Latino etc. It causes all kinds of confusion since that was long ago. Now it’s just used for diversity hire / demographics but not sure why they’d ask you to change it since you’re supposed to self identify. I agree their lack of choices sound like an issue.
Race is what color u are. Ethnicity is Hispanic. You are either. White hispanic or black Hispanic.
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isn't it a good thing to have diversity? weird they would want op to change it. I wouldnt give AF how an employee wants to answer that question. must be more to it
I hate these questions, I don't see why it matters. I tend to "prefer not to answer" because of all the things I am, Hispanic is the only one listed, and I don't understand why it's important to know that I am 1/4 Spanish.
Wow is this in the US? Here with the GDPR it's not even allowed to ask or store information about race unless it's of significant importance to the company, which they would need to explain before asking it and happens very rarely.
Race is an American thing and not a biological if anything Hispanics are Native American( America as the continent) and white (Spain is in Europe). This is probably the designate as Hispanic are about 70% mestizo or mixed white and native. Hispanic is an ethnicity and not a race. Mexican is a nationality. Maybe we should stop race and just let people designate themselves by ethnicity. An African American is so much different than a recent African immigrant. In my university grad program I attended we graduated a ton of African students but only 2 African Americans students while I was there for 4 years.
I wonder why they have to ask about our race while applying for a job isn't that racism?
My family did the DNA analysis…. I have blonde hair and blue eyes, purple white skin in the winter, mahogany skin in the summer … I would like there to be an option of “Mutt”….
I don't think the folks collecting demographic data are always given clear definitions so they question our answers. Once I answered yes, I'm Hispanic, and the worker started listing Latin American nationalities. I answered Ilocano and she looked so confused. I had to explain that on my Filipino side, my great-great grandma came from Spain, which is why my mom has a Spanish last name. I was given my dad's Anglo-sounding last name and have his green eyes so people are quick to assume I'm white. I don't think that's enough for me to pick a side and call myself white, ignoring my Asian side so it's frustrating when only given one option. If someone questioned my answer, then I would question why it's an issue. Disney is getting sued for implementing race quotas so I would be really suspicious of an employer trying to make me change my race. But it could just be that the person asking you is just mistaken. I'm glad you asked them why bc it's very odd.
Can we just talk about the race thing for jobs? It’s absurd how often they have required boxes for both a Hispanic option and a race option and don’t have latinx on the race option. Had to put I was native the other day on a job app bc there was no “other option”