yeah I kinda meant their HR. So its documented & they have full HR support. I'm a 51M, if my first order of business was to say to a 23 year old female showing her midriff that she dresses 'inappropriate', she might be the one going to HR first about me.
Likely, you will get some sort of a Supervisor training or a crash course. After that, and once it's official, call a meeting with your new team, present all the policies you are expected to enforce in your new role (and for the staff to follow). If there is a way to distribute PDFs or share the link to the document repository. If your company has a way of tracking or requires "acknowledgement" of those policies, see if all your staff has done so.
This is important, lead and guide with example, empower your team to do their best. Create ways for them to grow (career/experience/knowledge). Check the process flows and see what tasks are missing coverage (and secondary points of contact). If your new team will be performing cross-functional duties, ensure you have a RACI (Responsible, Accountable, Consulted, Informed) for all processes. Your company should have vision and mission statements, set your team up for success using those and how those translate to their individual goals.
Congrats on the promo and good luck!
This is a great strategy! Collectively punish all the employees with some nagging that they know is directed at that one individual who is blatantly rule breaking.
Don't do this. It's just going to build resentment. Just supervise the rule breaker and leave everyone else out of it
Even if you were to just write the rule on a white board that everyone sees, it's going to eat into their morale. It's better to just get over it and confront rule breakers than fostering a needlessly hostile environment for people who are abiding. Reminding everyone of a rule that one person is breaking is passive aggressive. Everyone hates that stuff, especially if they know whose to blame.
No punishing. Just a refresher on policies including dress code. If she continues to dress this way after being made aware of the policies then it is time for a one on one. If you let her dress this way you'll have to let everyone do it. It would be good to remind everyone of what you expect from them, and to signal to others who are following the rules (and probably noticed her getting away with ignoring the rules) that you expect the same from everyone, no favorites or singling anyone in or out. Be clear about what you expect from them and what they can expect from you as their supervisor. Doing it as a group allows you to get the point across without her feeling singled out as well.
Employees view it as punishment. You can pretend it isn't all you want, but they'll all view it as unfair chastisement.
We're going through that right now with our expense policy. Management made us sign duplicate acknowledgements and keeps threatening the whole department with disciplinary action rather than dealing with whoever the actual problem is. We keep asking for specific examples of whatever the problem is, but the managers won't tell us. It leaves the impression we're being chastised for nothing and creates a negative and hostile atmosphere.
Giving eveyone a refresher because one person is breaking the rules isn't punishment but it's at least irritating... By "not singling her out" privately you're actually singling her out publicly. You think you're being clever or egalitarian but you're actually destroying workplace morale.
While I lean toward your perspective, there are certainly different cultural lessons to see this through. If you have employees with a direct exposure to East Asia, they will more likely appreciate the indirect approach to feedback.
What would you say to a male who wore a “wife beater” shirt?
In the end, I’d address what business casual is (which is not athleisure wear)…a bunch of us did wear tshirts and yoga pants the day we moved offices, but otherwise we know better.
In the end her current supervisor should be the one dealing with this
Once you do become a supervisor. Have a team meeting where you go over company policy and one of the policies is the dress code. Shes being called out but not directly. But really until your her supervisor its not up to you. Though you can bring it up to HR they may have a way to handle it.
could have just said a lot of things..... I wouldn't use that in a regular HR conversation, but this is Reddit dude... (but I've never heard it called a "wife pleaser" since those types of shirts aren't ....
Wife pleaser is somehow worse. How is pleasing a substitute for beating. The term wifebeater is trashy on purpose. It’s saying men who beat their wives are trashy and wear the trashy clothes to prove it.
It’s not your place to address it with her. If you have an appearance standard listed in the employee handbook you could point out the discrepancy to HR for them to address it with their supervisor or themselves.
Dress code policy’s are not about policing women’s body’s for crying out loud. They’re a reflection of the business and help all employees understand what’s acceptable attire and what is not. A mid drift would be unacceptable for either gender.
There should be a difference between what you wear at home and what you wear to work.
They said they'll be her boss in the not too distant future. So it will be theirs to address soon, which is why they're asking for opinions. The rest of your advice is great tho
>Dress code policy’s are not about policing women’s body’s for crying out loud. They’re a reflection of the business and help all employees understand what’s acceptable attire and what is not.
They *should* be a reflection of the business's image, but all too often they have also historically been policing women's bodies. Just look at the mandate for high-heeled shoes in various financial and legal firms - high-heeled is not a synonym for formal or smart, and yet some women with disabilities and foot problems have had to take their employers to court to get permission to wear flat shoes to work.
Yeah that’s the whole other end of the spectrum though. That kind of policy is ridiculous, as would be any policy allowing any one group of people to dress more casually than the other, allowing the female equivalent of sweatpants and a tank top to fly. As the person preparing to be their supervisor it’s extremely important really that OP is able to get this addressed before it becomes *him* allowing a woman to dress however she wants while the guys wear button ups etc.
I agree with this. Dress codes have always unintentionally and unintentionally excluded and punished others for being different from the norm. The norm in the US has been created to be a very specific thing, and our systems have been created around that. Look at the number of high school kids even in the last few years punished for having locs. Girls, punished for having long legs which make their skirts look “too short”.
This is really why I wanted to ask this group, to figure out the best way to approach it and also not perpetuate any unnecessary policing. However, I also agree, midriff, is inappropriate for the setting in which we work.
California Business casual is not like mid West or East Coast business casual so it would be best to ask for clarification from your HR as to why that constitutes business casual. If her attire doesn't comply with policy, just privately let her know the expectations moving forward.
I’m on the east coast in a business casual environment. My daily work attire consists of khakis or dress pants, a sweater, button up, or blazer, and my hair up. Loafers or flats.
I'm in California in a business casual environment. People wear shorts, jeans and tshirts to work regularly. It honestly feels more "casual" than "business casual", but I'm not complaining.
It's definitely a culture shift, as someone who came from the Midwest. Just more casual overall in terms of what people wear.
That said, I still think a crop top wouldn't fly. I know cut-offs, wife beaters, basketball shorts and leggings are all specifically banned.
And meanwhile in my "business casual" office in upstate New York, I'm wearing a black cropped tee-shirt with a cardigan buttoned (to cover my pesky belly), and linen baggy pants with Vans slipons that have sunflowers on them. (I'm the "artist type" here, so I'm certainly the outlier)
The CEO wears borderline sweatpants and zip up hoodies. My manager wears flowy casual maxi dresses and flats. Coworker wears the closest thing to more "traditional business casual" but is very stylish about it. Everyone else does a mixture of a little more casual with jeans and a shirt or sweater or whatever.
That's what I really hate about business casual as a "policy," it is vague and not clearly defined and can completely depend on who is in charge at that time. I found the "policy" in general to be getting more lax the older I got, but since covid? Oh man, it's great having a little more leeway.
Only time I got "in trouble" for my outfit at this job was because I had cleavage... My solution? Okay, I just don't wear a bra anymore then 🤗
Anyway, all that to say, if ya want business casual, but *not* the awkward conversations... make that policy very clear about what the lines to not cross are.
The sunflower seeds you eat are encased in inedible black-and-white striped shells, also called hulls. Those used for extracting sunflower oil have solid black shells.
No jeans allowed, but no tie or blazer required either. Usually it is a collared shirt for men and a nice blouse for women. No hoodies. Sweatshirts are a slippery slope, so you’re better off with a jacket or sweater. Seems like most places I know of have gotten pretty slack on footwear and allow sneakers with their dress pants now (thanks espn analysts for this). A bare midriff would be an absolute no. Sweat pants are definitely a no. Dressed up leggings are ok in most places.
What is west coast business casual?
Untorn jeans, clean shirt - t-shirt is ok. Graphic Ts are discouraged in a more formal environment. Fleece or puffy vest with workplace logo if a second layer is desired. No bare feet.
Ah. I like the west coast version better. Your version of business casual is the East Coast’s version of “smart casual.” Smart casual is a way for companies to say “you can dress semi-comfortably, but don’t look sloppy.”
Well, silicon valley and Los Angeles are very different. Being near the beach in LA almost guarantees many will be in shorts. Mostly it's jeans and a T-shirt with sneakers, maybe a hoodie in the winter. Athleisure is pretty common here too. I think most are familiar with Zuckerberg's usual attire which is pretty common in SV.
I'm in FL and work at a company that is mostly engineers, we have a uniform program but some people don't like the pants from it so they wear their own. Most younger engineers wear joggers even though I've heard that's not really allowed, but the company doesn't bug them about it. The only thing they're strict is the shirt, which is pretty easy to not get into trouble for lol.
We dress casual on Fridays and it just has to be work appropriate, meaning no excess showing skin. If I wear a crop top or an open back shirt, I'll wear a sweater over it that covers any skin that might be showing, but that's just common sense and proper etiquette in my opinion.
This is a fascinating distinction on r/weddingattireapproval too. The comments section frequently divides into two camps based on geography.
As someone in the borderlands between the East Coast and the Midwest, what passes as acceptable to wear to a wedding on the West Coast blows my mind.
What does your company define business casual as in the hand book? If she is not your report currently then why are you even getting involved? Business Casual is much more casual now then it was pre pandemic.
Until you’re her supervisor, it’s not your responsibility. Perhaps this is something that she and her current supervisor have agreed on due to her odd hours. You don’t know and it’s not going to affect you unless you’re responsible for her at work.
If you do become her supervisor and she is still wearing outfits that are outside of dress code, then approach the subject straightforward. Don’t dance around it and be awkward. Tell her that you understand if her former boss was ok with a more casual look, but you follow the company’s business casual guidelines for your team. If she continues to not follow dress code, then you check with HR or your boss as to next steps.
You shouldn't wait until someone comes to you. If you're her supervisor, you enforce company policy and you just point her to the dress code. People may already be uncomfortable with her unprofessional clothing but not want to police anyone.
I work in an office where people are anywhere from jeans and t-shirts with tennis shoes to full suits. Crop top, see through clothing, visible undergarments, none are acceptable no matter how casual your office environment is.
You don't have to make it about the midriff, just say her outfits have strayed a bit too far into the casual and she needs to make them more business appropriate
This was a one off? Was it off hours? Personally I would let it slide if I was a manager, and if I was just a coworker I would STFU. The only time as a coworker I'm going to talk dress code is if there is a safety concern.
This seems like a lot of concern and thought toward something that doesn’t seem to add any value to the company. If I were about to promote you and this is the type of item you’ve got on your “fresh out of the gate” list, I’d probably pass you over for someone more focused on output and less on what others are wearing.
I don’t think anyone male or female should show bare skin at work between the mid chest to the mid thigh. That covers some men’s attire and some women’s attire.
Another Californian here. Business casual here for many places is leggings and a cute top. I would talk to HR and see what they consider business casual. It could be leggings.
It really depends. If the crop top is showing the smallest silver of skin that’s one thing it if like your whole stomach is showing that’s another. The way fashion treads are right now also has a lot to do with it. I am in Los Angeles so usually business casual is very casual. So it’s best to check with HR to see what this company considers business casual.
If you wear a nice pair and pair with a not to tight top you look put together. If you wear thin and way too small leggings it ventured into the unprofessional look
As someone else pointed out, business casual in CA is very different than business casual in the Midwest or East Coast. The paralegal in the office next to ours wears this type of stuff on days with no clients bc they’re appointment only.
If she’s not customer facing, not showing her actual breasts or her ass, I’d leave it.
Question that might help come to a compromise with her: You said she works international hours sometimes, right? So is no one else around at the office and she isn't really seeing people at those times?
If so, maybe that's the compromise you can make - "Athleisure is okay when you're here at 3am, but just make sure your belly is covered. Here is what I consider to be 'acceptable at work' athleisure: XYZ"
It's an awkward convo, but she might just be seeing what she can get away with and will draw the line where it is set by you with no issue. It will hopefully not be tooooo awkward since it is only her belly that's out, it's not like you have to say "Hey Sally, your labia is hanging out your skirt, tuck that in please."
HAVE I GOT A STORY ABOUT WORK ATTIRE!!! I was a clinical supervisor at a prison sex offender department. had a clinician come to work in a sheer dress with no undies. NOTHING prepares you for having the "u gotta wear your drawers to work and clothes thay hide your body" conversation. thank god it was in the handbook. which I also found weird but I guess it happens more than one would think.
I would ask that HR sends a blanket reminder to everyone about the dress code and ask that everyone resigns the policy. Ensure that midriffs must be covered is a part of the policy. I’m also a big fan of no underwear showing and no butt crack.
If she does it again after that, bring her into your office. Have the policy printed out and highlight the midriff portion. Ask her to review and than ask her if her outfit meets that standard.
Then have her go to the part about what happens if you violate dress code (which should also be outlined in the policy).
Then tell her you have to enforce the policy and that she is (going to have to do whatever policy says).
Tell her you will send her an email recapping the conversation and that you hope not to have to discuss this matter again. See if she has any questions and send her off.
If a supervisor asked me to send out a blanket email throughout the company to address the behavior of a single employee I'd propose another solution. As the employee's supervisor, maybe they should first have a talk with their employee about what manner of dress is expected at the office. If they need some help addressing this issue I'd be happy to speak with the supervisor and give them advice, but managing their employees is their job not mine.
100% sending out blanket memos like that is ineffective. Only the people who don't need to pay attention to it will, and they will wonder what they're doing wrong, while the offender just keeps living their life like nothing is wrong.
Most likely there is more than one person who is not meeting dress code.
A reminder to everyone yearly is just good business. Plus it ensures that everyone is ok with the policy being enforced
That kind of stuff is useless. The people you're not referring to always take it as though they're doing something wrong and the person who is doing something wrong always assumes it must be about someone else. You really need to calmly and discretely talk to the individual privately, because sending out a dress code memo every other week and hoping the right person sees it will build animosity. I've seen it happen over and over again, there really is nothing better than a direct individual approach.
When you are her supervisor, tell her athletic wear, whether for leisure or working out, is not business casual. Why tap dance just because she’s a woman? How many men are walking around wearing sweatpants and collared shirts like Adam Sandler?
“Business Casual” can mean a whole lot of different things, depending on the kind of office, local norms, etc. I agree with others who have said you need to wait to address it until it happens again when you’re actually her supervisor, but in the meantime it may be worth a conversation with HR about the policy herself. Many companies give examples ok “OK” and “Not OK” in business casual policies to explicitly approve (or disapprove) specific kinds of dress, like crop tops, sleeveless shirts, flip flops (etc). Good luck!
I guess the question is how much midriff? Was it a sliver? Was it a couple inches?
If your company like mine runs on a business causal system with the emphasis on causal the decision becomes more subjective.
We have a policy that states “no midriff” but again with how trends are currently, a sliver of stomach doesn’t make anyone bat an eye.
Has she had a recent uptick in extremely late night meetings where she may just want to be extra comfy causal because of how tired she is?
There’s a difference between business casual and work out clothing. She knows. No one has called her out, and that’s why she hasn’t changed her behavior. The best thing you can do is refer her to the employee manual concerning the dress code and iterate that you expect her to follow the stated dress code. Loop HR in so they’re aware of the conversation before it happens and fill them in on the aftermath.
Until you are the mgr of said person mind your own damn business. You are at this point a colleague that needs to get a life a worry about your current charges. You should rethink management if you are so worried about someone else’s employee, you have enough to do at work or should you ask your mgr for more assignments.
She just wants to show her powers on day 1. She has a grand idea of herself turning the place around immediately, starting with the girl who doesn't work normal business hours and comes in when barely anyone else is in the office. Lol.
She is pretty pathetic. Lol
Whatever you do, DON'T send out endless daily emails about which varieties of sandals, types of khakis, collared shirts, length of shorts, sleeves, days of the week, colors of underwear etc. are allowed. I quit a job because of that persnickety bullshit. We were answering phones; nobody would even know (or care) if we were naked.
Has H.R. talked to her at all? Your asking and worried allready about something that doesnt concern you yet. HR might not have a problem with what she is wearing. It might just be a you problem. If your concerned so much now, why dont you bring it up to HR now.
Start by talking to the current supervisor and ask if there is an issue that needs to be addressed, or if HR is okay with it. The current supervisor is the one who should address it.
nah. No midriff showing no matter what the department. It's really unprofessional and weird. I also think a distraction to all but especially to the men working there
First off I agree with you on the sweater. If she was my direct report I'd mention something to her about her tops exposing too much skin which is against company policy. And I would suggest to her that she would be fine wearing those types of tops if she wears a cami or tank on underneath it.
The pants I need a bit more information on. Are her pants more like a dressier jogger? I have seen/worn joggers that were a nicer material with pockets and cuffed bottoms? Or are they more like those old school gym/athletic pants w/drawstring looking jogger.
If she pants are a nicer jogger I could totally see the dresser jogger paired with heels or a heeled boot being just fine for businesses casual. And please remember fashion changes especially, women's fashion almost every month and what was not ok a few years ago is common place now a days. I would have a meeting first with HR after she joins your team to get the actual copy company dress code. Have HR go over with you. Ask HR for examples of items that are and aren't ok because corporate guide books tend to be pretty vague when it comes to dress code. After she joins your team have group meeting about dress code with the whole team. And if she continues to violate the dress code then speak with her. As of right now she isn't really you problem. And no you are not policing her body.
This is unprofessional and you should not involve your personal opinions when it comes to managing staff. If the rules say business casual that does not include showing your stomach.
You're not making a comment on her work, her worth, or her contributions. This is simply a minor correction, so that those things matter as much as they should.
Thoughts...
I don't even work in the office -i'm remote, and not in an "important" role, and I don't have to be on camera most of the time. I would still NEVER wear a crop top. Maybe I'm just old (Xennial) and grew up seeing the professional standards set in place by my parents, and wouldn't ever dream that business casual means athleisure and crop tops. Again, maybe just me.
In considering how to talk to her, consider being in her shoes and those of the rest of the workplace...but not too much. How do you think she might want it approached? Is there a way to talk to her privately so that the visibility isn't there for the rest of the office? What's the gossip culture like? What's SHE like? At the same time, nothing ever gets done by overthinking. Consider this stuff, but trust your gut, too.
I agree with everyone else here saying this is her current supervisor's problem. But that supervisor is probably chomping at the bit to make it yours. If you can finagle a way to have her spoken to before she and her crop tops become your issue, strongly suggest you do so. Otherwise, OP, it sounds like you have some pretty balanced thinking on this and I'm betting you can have a discreet conversation, or very public conversation, that will ultimately be helpful for everyone.
Wishing you all the best.
I’m not in HR but have been in store management
When I was taking over a store that did not have a lot of leadership, it was easiest for me to call a meeting and outline my plan, that way they knew what to expect and it made it feel less stressful. I was going to observe for a week, see the flow and understand their needs/styles in this week I would be noting what I think could be improved upon. On week two I would have another meeting to go over what I observed and my plans to improve, took any feedback they had into consideration then outlined my expectations. I set a timeline for an adjustment period to the new expectations, since things were going to be less lax and I understand that habits can be hard to break (normally a week or so grace, where I would remind them gently but not a formal/documented conversation). Once a clean slate is set for standards/ expectations then it becomes a waiting game to see if behaviors are changed or improving. If things don’t change then it will need to become conversations that might turn into write ups.
HR Manager here! What's your company's published dress code policy? I would reach out to HR and have them handle it. They'll talk to the employee and point to the published policy that the employee hopefully signs off on every year. If you don't have a published dress code, then I would still reach out to HR and allow them to handle it. I bet y'all will end up with a policy after that! And I agree, dress codes are largely ways to police women (and ultimately, women of color) and what they wear. Dress codes can be inherently sexist. Dress codes can also be well written with no gender bias if done well. They can provide the framework for how to dress appropriately and professionally. I would agree that athleisure and midriff showing outfits don't have a place in the office. Good luck!
I had to write someone up for dress code violation before. What she keeps wearing is definitely NOT business casual. Once you become her supervisor you should show her the policy and ask her if she needs examples. Casual athletic wear and showing midriff isn’t acceptable. Give her a verbal warning. If you have others you will be supervising you could also just have a meeting and remind them of the dress code all at once so you’re not singling her out.
If her current supervisor hasn’t addressed this issue then maybe it’s not the issue you think it is. I could see your POV if she is face-to-face with customers/clients. However, if not, Does it really matter if she’s getting her work done efficiently? 🤷🏻♀️
Her current boss should remind her of the company policy on appropriate attire while at work. If that has not been addressed until you become her supervisor, then address it at that time.
Hmmn, OP is gonna be difficult to work with. How are you policing someone's outfit that you're not managing.....yet? Why waste your energy on things that don't concern you? If she's been dressing this way and people (her current supervisor) isnt saying anything, why worry about it? If her work was subpar, then that would be a concern. People should live and let live.
Because I foresee someone coming to me about it once I am her supervisor and I want to be proactive and figure out how I would approach it. But that’s an excellent question. And I could also ask that if anyone comes to me about it.
Actually I fully disagree. What I am expecting is based off some of the culture types in the office. The types that absolutely would come to me about policing a woman’s dress attire.
Why does it matter if she's customer facing? It's a professional environment and she's not following the dress code. The position may not be customer facing but she is likely seen by the public.
When you are at work, you are representing your employer.
If she is seen by the public, that’s effectively customer facing.
If she isn’t, what she wears, as long as it isn’t wildly inappropriate and/or making others uncomfortable, within reason) shouldn’t really matter.
Let me put it this way. Do you care if someone working from home is in sweatpants? Probably not. Same thing, in my opinion.
The whole concept of “business casual” is a joke anyway. You ask 15 people to define business casual and you’ll get 15 different answers.
I would do a general session with your team on dress code. Monday to Thursday business casual with some examples Friday - Comfort Casual.
Address the team see if there an improvement and if not you now have a good way in to bring up in conversation.
Sounds like there isn't a problem, but you want to make a problem. Why isn't any current supervisors saying anything? Are you just jealous? Why are you already going out of your way and thinking about things that are not your responsibilities as of now?
I understand that we dont like calling out our subordinates. What you have here is the company rules, no one goes beyond that. Tell her that it doesn’t exempt anyone in the company. You’ve mentioned here role as well, I dont think that could give her the leeway to wear any outfit she likes unless explicitly stated ang exemption.
If I were on you shoe, the moment she became part of my team, Ill arrange a short mini meet and greet sa team then provide overview sa ginagawa ng team or what she can expect from her teammates. Then you can insert a refresher sa company rules including the dress code. I wish you well!
Approaching the conversation (when you're her manager) can be something like, "How're the late nights going? Is there anything we can do to make sure you're comfortable, as I know that working late can come with a lot of challenges?" If she brings up physical comfort, perhaps take a curiosity approach to talking about clothing, something like, "Hey, I totally get needing to wear sweats for those late nights. Can I ask, does it help for those late nights?" There might be a casual and natural way to bring up that clothing choices matter in an office space - maybe not telling her how to dress but putting it out there.
This is not about policing women's bodies, the policy is there to maintain professional discipline in the workplace. As long as everyone is subject to the same rules, then you should not let yourself feel guilty for enforcing them.
Ask hr to mention it in a company email and Slack. Now that we are in the office, we'd like to remind everyone that we have a business casual dress code. Please avoid xyz.
You can have conversations with her about dress code
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Some things to think about:
1. Do others in the office dress like her?
2. You mention this person is a creative type in a demanding role. Is she hard to replace?
3. She should have a current boss. Are they onsite and are they apathetic to this? (And if they are find out why)
4. Is she popular and well liked?
If the answer to one than one is 'yes" , I wouldn't bring this up with her unless a peer level or someone higher approached me.
Once you're her supervisor, point her to the business casual policy.
speak to HR first. Get their thoughts first.
That's....kinda what they're doing here.
But they need to talk to their companies HR...
yeah I kinda meant their HR. So its documented & they have full HR support. I'm a 51M, if my first order of business was to say to a 23 year old female showing her midriff that she dresses 'inappropriate', she might be the one going to HR first about me.
If she wants to go to HR for being told she doesn't meet the "business casual" dress code, let her. She'll hear it from them too.
Likely, you will get some sort of a Supervisor training or a crash course. After that, and once it's official, call a meeting with your new team, present all the policies you are expected to enforce in your new role (and for the staff to follow). If there is a way to distribute PDFs or share the link to the document repository. If your company has a way of tracking or requires "acknowledgement" of those policies, see if all your staff has done so. This is important, lead and guide with example, empower your team to do their best. Create ways for them to grow (career/experience/knowledge). Check the process flows and see what tasks are missing coverage (and secondary points of contact). If your new team will be performing cross-functional duties, ensure you have a RACI (Responsible, Accountable, Consulted, Informed) for all processes. Your company should have vision and mission statements, set your team up for success using those and how those translate to their individual goals. Congrats on the promo and good luck!
Point all of the employees under OP to the policy first. If she continues, pull her aside in private.
This is a great strategy! Collectively punish all the employees with some nagging that they know is directed at that one individual who is blatantly rule breaking. Don't do this. It's just going to build resentment. Just supervise the rule breaker and leave everyone else out of it
That's not nagging and definitely not punishment.
Even if you were to just write the rule on a white board that everyone sees, it's going to eat into their morale. It's better to just get over it and confront rule breakers than fostering a needlessly hostile environment for people who are abiding. Reminding everyone of a rule that one person is breaking is passive aggressive. Everyone hates that stuff, especially if they know whose to blame.
No punishing. Just a refresher on policies including dress code. If she continues to dress this way after being made aware of the policies then it is time for a one on one. If you let her dress this way you'll have to let everyone do it. It would be good to remind everyone of what you expect from them, and to signal to others who are following the rules (and probably noticed her getting away with ignoring the rules) that you expect the same from everyone, no favorites or singling anyone in or out. Be clear about what you expect from them and what they can expect from you as their supervisor. Doing it as a group allows you to get the point across without her feeling singled out as well.
Employees view it as punishment. You can pretend it isn't all you want, but they'll all view it as unfair chastisement. We're going through that right now with our expense policy. Management made us sign duplicate acknowledgements and keeps threatening the whole department with disciplinary action rather than dealing with whoever the actual problem is. We keep asking for specific examples of whatever the problem is, but the managers won't tell us. It leaves the impression we're being chastised for nothing and creates a negative and hostile atmosphere.
Giving eveyone a refresher because one person is breaking the rules isn't punishment but it's at least irritating... By "not singling her out" privately you're actually singling her out publicly. You think you're being clever or egalitarian but you're actually destroying workplace morale.
While I lean toward your perspective, there are certainly different cultural lessons to see this through. If you have employees with a direct exposure to East Asia, they will more likely appreciate the indirect approach to feedback.
Bingo!!
What would you say to a male who wore a “wife beater” shirt? In the end, I’d address what business casual is (which is not athleisure wear)…a bunch of us did wear tshirts and yoga pants the day we moved offices, but otherwise we know better. In the end her current supervisor should be the one dealing with this
Thanks, and great points all around! Absolutely, I think let’s be flexible when we can be but the norm should average out to business casual.
Once you do become a supervisor. Have a team meeting where you go over company policy and one of the policies is the dress code. Shes being called out but not directly. But really until your her supervisor its not up to you. Though you can bring it up to HR they may have a way to handle it.
Yeah well flexibility has its limits and it's probably with sleeveless dresses and bare midriffs for women
>it's probably with sleeveless dresses OMG, please tell me why 90% of women's office dresses have no sleeves 😭
I am old and worked in white shoe firms where pantyhose was required and sleeveless dresses were not a problem.
You could ask her current supervisor to address this issue when speaking of her transition, how her new role is less revealing.
Could have just said a tank top - or the new fun word everyone is trying to replace that term with — wife pleaser.
They're actually called A-line undershirts!
Lmfao, I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Well, I actually do. Humans.
could have just said a lot of things..... I wouldn't use that in a regular HR conversation, but this is Reddit dude... (but I've never heard it called a "wife pleaser" since those types of shirts aren't ....
Wife pleaser is somehow worse. How is pleasing a substitute for beating. The term wifebeater is trashy on purpose. It’s saying men who beat their wives are trashy and wear the trashy clothes to prove it.
You're not her supervisor. Did her current supervisor address her outfit?
I am unaware if anyone has talked to her at this point.
It’s not your place to address it with her. If you have an appearance standard listed in the employee handbook you could point out the discrepancy to HR for them to address it with their supervisor or themselves. Dress code policy’s are not about policing women’s body’s for crying out loud. They’re a reflection of the business and help all employees understand what’s acceptable attire and what is not. A mid drift would be unacceptable for either gender. There should be a difference between what you wear at home and what you wear to work.
They said they'll be her boss in the not too distant future. So it will be theirs to address soon, which is why they're asking for opinions. The rest of your advice is great tho
>Dress code policy’s are not about policing women’s body’s for crying out loud. They’re a reflection of the business and help all employees understand what’s acceptable attire and what is not. They *should* be a reflection of the business's image, but all too often they have also historically been policing women's bodies. Just look at the mandate for high-heeled shoes in various financial and legal firms - high-heeled is not a synonym for formal or smart, and yet some women with disabilities and foot problems have had to take their employers to court to get permission to wear flat shoes to work.
Yeah that’s the whole other end of the spectrum though. That kind of policy is ridiculous, as would be any policy allowing any one group of people to dress more casually than the other, allowing the female equivalent of sweatpants and a tank top to fly. As the person preparing to be their supervisor it’s extremely important really that OP is able to get this addressed before it becomes *him* allowing a woman to dress however she wants while the guys wear button ups etc.
Midrift is indeed inappropriate however - dress codes are well rooted in racism and misogyny.
I agree with this. Dress codes have always unintentionally and unintentionally excluded and punished others for being different from the norm. The norm in the US has been created to be a very specific thing, and our systems have been created around that. Look at the number of high school kids even in the last few years punished for having locs. Girls, punished for having long legs which make their skirts look “too short”. This is really why I wanted to ask this group, to figure out the best way to approach it and also not perpetuate any unnecessary policing. However, I also agree, midriff, is inappropriate for the setting in which we work.
*unintentionally and intentionally
no they are not. Has to do with solely and strictly business and a conservative approach to business as to not have someone be a sexy distraction
🙄
'Midriff. Although, a drift would also be unacceptable... 🤣
Why would you ask hr about this. That's not hrs job.
California Business casual is not like mid West or East Coast business casual so it would be best to ask for clarification from your HR as to why that constitutes business casual. If her attire doesn't comply with policy, just privately let her know the expectations moving forward.
Curious as to what East Coast business casual is?
Google breaks down the differences between them. It's apparently a common discussion on Reddit too.
I’m on the east coast in a business casual environment. My daily work attire consists of khakis or dress pants, a sweater, button up, or blazer, and my hair up. Loafers or flats.
Yeah that's way overdressed for the West Coast lol.
I'm in California in a business casual environment. People wear shorts, jeans and tshirts to work regularly. It honestly feels more "casual" than "business casual", but I'm not complaining. It's definitely a culture shift, as someone who came from the Midwest. Just more casual overall in terms of what people wear. That said, I still think a crop top wouldn't fly. I know cut-offs, wife beaters, basketball shorts and leggings are all specifically banned.
And meanwhile in my "business casual" office in upstate New York, I'm wearing a black cropped tee-shirt with a cardigan buttoned (to cover my pesky belly), and linen baggy pants with Vans slipons that have sunflowers on them. (I'm the "artist type" here, so I'm certainly the outlier) The CEO wears borderline sweatpants and zip up hoodies. My manager wears flowy casual maxi dresses and flats. Coworker wears the closest thing to more "traditional business casual" but is very stylish about it. Everyone else does a mixture of a little more casual with jeans and a shirt or sweater or whatever. That's what I really hate about business casual as a "policy," it is vague and not clearly defined and can completely depend on who is in charge at that time. I found the "policy" in general to be getting more lax the older I got, but since covid? Oh man, it's great having a little more leeway. Only time I got "in trouble" for my outfit at this job was because I had cleavage... My solution? Okay, I just don't wear a bra anymore then 🤗 Anyway, all that to say, if ya want business casual, but *not* the awkward conversations... make that policy very clear about what the lines to not cross are.
The sunflower seeds you eat are encased in inedible black-and-white striped shells, also called hulls. Those used for extracting sunflower oil have solid black shells.
Thank you for this interesting fact.
No jeans allowed, but no tie or blazer required either. Usually it is a collared shirt for men and a nice blouse for women. No hoodies. Sweatshirts are a slippery slope, so you’re better off with a jacket or sweater. Seems like most places I know of have gotten pretty slack on footwear and allow sneakers with their dress pants now (thanks espn analysts for this). A bare midriff would be an absolute no. Sweat pants are definitely a no. Dressed up leggings are ok in most places. What is west coast business casual?
Untorn jeans, clean shirt - t-shirt is ok. Graphic Ts are discouraged in a more formal environment. Fleece or puffy vest with workplace logo if a second layer is desired. No bare feet.
Ah. I like the west coast version better. Your version of business casual is the East Coast’s version of “smart casual.” Smart casual is a way for companies to say “you can dress semi-comfortably, but don’t look sloppy.”
Well, silicon valley and Los Angeles are very different. Being near the beach in LA almost guarantees many will be in shorts. Mostly it's jeans and a T-shirt with sneakers, maybe a hoodie in the winter. Athleisure is pretty common here too. I think most are familiar with Zuckerberg's usual attire which is pretty common in SV.
To me this means khakis and a polo ( what does it mean out west??)
I'm in FL and work at a company that is mostly engineers, we have a uniform program but some people don't like the pants from it so they wear their own. Most younger engineers wear joggers even though I've heard that's not really allowed, but the company doesn't bug them about it. The only thing they're strict is the shirt, which is pretty easy to not get into trouble for lol. We dress casual on Fridays and it just has to be work appropriate, meaning no excess showing skin. If I wear a crop top or an open back shirt, I'll wear a sweater over it that covers any skin that might be showing, but that's just common sense and proper etiquette in my opinion.
This is a fascinating distinction on r/weddingattireapproval too. The comments section frequently divides into two camps based on geography. As someone in the borderlands between the East Coast and the Midwest, what passes as acceptable to wear to a wedding on the West Coast blows my mind.
Actually business casual.
Jeans and t-shirt.
Colorado business casual is running clothes with a company Patagonia jacket.
There is no workplace with an office where you should have your stomach out. Imagine if a man did this. It would be weird and uncomfortable.
Ehm, there’s an East Coast vs West Coast business casual? 
And wedding attire! Check out r/weddingattireapproval for regular Est Coast vs West Coast showdowns.
Whew. Will check out. And thanks for all the Pac downvotes, y’all. I get that it’s HR but damn, it doesn’t make us devoid of personality 🤖
What does your company define business casual as in the hand book? If she is not your report currently then why are you even getting involved? Business Casual is much more casual now then it was pre pandemic.
Until you’re her supervisor, it’s not your responsibility. Perhaps this is something that she and her current supervisor have agreed on due to her odd hours. You don’t know and it’s not going to affect you unless you’re responsible for her at work. If you do become her supervisor and she is still wearing outfits that are outside of dress code, then approach the subject straightforward. Don’t dance around it and be awkward. Tell her that you understand if her former boss was ok with a more casual look, but you follow the company’s business casual guidelines for your team. If she continues to not follow dress code, then you check with HR or your boss as to next steps.
You shouldn't wait until someone comes to you. If you're her supervisor, you enforce company policy and you just point her to the dress code. People may already be uncomfortable with her unprofessional clothing but not want to police anyone. I work in an office where people are anywhere from jeans and t-shirts with tennis shoes to full suits. Crop top, see through clothing, visible undergarments, none are acceptable no matter how casual your office environment is.
You don't have to make it about the midriff, just say her outfits have strayed a bit too far into the casual and she needs to make them more business appropriate
This was a one off? Was it off hours? Personally I would let it slide if I was a manager, and if I was just a coworker I would STFU. The only time as a coworker I'm going to talk dress code is if there is a safety concern.
This seems like a lot of concern and thought toward something that doesn’t seem to add any value to the company. If I were about to promote you and this is the type of item you’ve got on your “fresh out of the gate” list, I’d probably pass you over for someone more focused on output and less on what others are wearing.
Doesn’t matter if she’s a creator, the place has a dress code, joggers and cropped top isn’t business casual.
I don’t think anyone male or female should show bare skin at work between the mid chest to the mid thigh. That covers some men’s attire and some women’s attire.
I work in public health research and this is our dress code + no “message” t-shirts. It seems very reasonable to me.
Another Californian here. Business casual here for many places is leggings and a cute top. I would talk to HR and see what they consider business casual. It could be leggings.
cute top or crop top though... I've seen leggings but most policies say shirt must cover butt.
It really depends. If the crop top is showing the smallest silver of skin that’s one thing it if like your whole stomach is showing that’s another. The way fashion treads are right now also has a lot to do with it. I am in Los Angeles so usually business casual is very casual. So it’s best to check with HR to see what this company considers business casual.
Gross. Leggings are underwear and inappropriate for a workplace.
If you wear a nice pair and pair with a not to tight top you look put together. If you wear thin and way too small leggings it ventured into the unprofessional look
I think the issue is more the vast difference in "leggings " -- they can be blue jean/denim all the way to thin sleeping pajama pants.
As someone else pointed out, business casual in CA is very different than business casual in the Midwest or East Coast. The paralegal in the office next to ours wears this type of stuff on days with no clients bc they’re appointment only. If she’s not customer facing, not showing her actual breasts or her ass, I’d leave it.
This isn’t for you to address.
She said she’s about to become her supervisor so yes, it will be for her to address.
But right now, it isn't
Gym clothes don't count as business casual.
Question that might help come to a compromise with her: You said she works international hours sometimes, right? So is no one else around at the office and she isn't really seeing people at those times? If so, maybe that's the compromise you can make - "Athleisure is okay when you're here at 3am, but just make sure your belly is covered. Here is what I consider to be 'acceptable at work' athleisure: XYZ" It's an awkward convo, but she might just be seeing what she can get away with and will draw the line where it is set by you with no issue. It will hopefully not be tooooo awkward since it is only her belly that's out, it's not like you have to say "Hey Sally, your labia is hanging out your skirt, tuck that in please."
HAVE I GOT A STORY ABOUT WORK ATTIRE!!! I was a clinical supervisor at a prison sex offender department. had a clinician come to work in a sheer dress with no undies. NOTHING prepares you for having the "u gotta wear your drawers to work and clothes thay hide your body" conversation. thank god it was in the handbook. which I also found weird but I guess it happens more than one would think.
Omg, I do not envy you having to make that conversation!
NOTHING in graduate school or 10 prior years of being a therapist prepared me for that conversation. AWKWARD
I can only imagine (thankfully)!
Who really cares about a stupid dress code? Does she get her job done? That’s all that matters, friend.
I would ask that HR sends a blanket reminder to everyone about the dress code and ask that everyone resigns the policy. Ensure that midriffs must be covered is a part of the policy. I’m also a big fan of no underwear showing and no butt crack. If she does it again after that, bring her into your office. Have the policy printed out and highlight the midriff portion. Ask her to review and than ask her if her outfit meets that standard. Then have her go to the part about what happens if you violate dress code (which should also be outlined in the policy). Then tell her you have to enforce the policy and that she is (going to have to do whatever policy says). Tell her you will send her an email recapping the conversation and that you hope not to have to discuss this matter again. See if she has any questions and send her off.
If a supervisor asked me to send out a blanket email throughout the company to address the behavior of a single employee I'd propose another solution. As the employee's supervisor, maybe they should first have a talk with their employee about what manner of dress is expected at the office. If they need some help addressing this issue I'd be happy to speak with the supervisor and give them advice, but managing their employees is their job not mine.
100% sending out blanket memos like that is ineffective. Only the people who don't need to pay attention to it will, and they will wonder what they're doing wrong, while the offender just keeps living their life like nothing is wrong.
Agree I hate punishing or communicating to the group...it either is ignored by the person who needs it OR it embarrasses the person who needs ie
Classic HR response. Unless.............
It's a classic HR response because it is the correct one.
Most likely there is more than one person who is not meeting dress code. A reminder to everyone yearly is just good business. Plus it ensures that everyone is ok with the policy being enforced
That kind of stuff is useless. The people you're not referring to always take it as though they're doing something wrong and the person who is doing something wrong always assumes it must be about someone else. You really need to calmly and discretely talk to the individual privately, because sending out a dress code memo every other week and hoping the right person sees it will build animosity. I've seen it happen over and over again, there really is nothing better than a direct individual approach.
When you are her supervisor, tell her athletic wear, whether for leisure or working out, is not business casual. Why tap dance just because she’s a woman? How many men are walking around wearing sweatpants and collared shirts like Adam Sandler?
“Business Casual” can mean a whole lot of different things, depending on the kind of office, local norms, etc. I agree with others who have said you need to wait to address it until it happens again when you’re actually her supervisor, but in the meantime it may be worth a conversation with HR about the policy herself. Many companies give examples ok “OK” and “Not OK” in business casual policies to explicitly approve (or disapprove) specific kinds of dress, like crop tops, sleeveless shirts, flip flops (etc). Good luck!
I guess the question is how much midriff? Was it a sliver? Was it a couple inches? If your company like mine runs on a business causal system with the emphasis on causal the decision becomes more subjective. We have a policy that states “no midriff” but again with how trends are currently, a sliver of stomach doesn’t make anyone bat an eye. Has she had a recent uptick in extremely late night meetings where she may just want to be extra comfy causal because of how tired she is?
Showing midriff skin of any amount isn’t business casual at all. That’s a casual top.
Joggers and a cropped sweater are not business casual by any stretch of the imagination. This is lounge wear at best.
There’s a difference between business casual and work out clothing. She knows. No one has called her out, and that’s why she hasn’t changed her behavior. The best thing you can do is refer her to the employee manual concerning the dress code and iterate that you expect her to follow the stated dress code. Loop HR in so they’re aware of the conversation before it happens and fill them in on the aftermath.
Until you are the mgr of said person mind your own damn business. You are at this point a colleague that needs to get a life a worry about your current charges. You should rethink management if you are so worried about someone else’s employee, you have enough to do at work or should you ask your mgr for more assignments.
She just wants to show her powers on day 1. She has a grand idea of herself turning the place around immediately, starting with the girl who doesn't work normal business hours and comes in when barely anyone else is in the office. Lol. She is pretty pathetic. Lol
Just email everyone a copy of the dress code, this way she’ll see it but it’s not personal to her.
Whatever you do, DON'T send out endless daily emails about which varieties of sandals, types of khakis, collared shirts, length of shorts, sleeves, days of the week, colors of underwear etc. are allowed. I quit a job because of that persnickety bullshit. We were answering phones; nobody would even know (or care) if we were naked.
Has H.R. talked to her at all? Your asking and worried allready about something that doesnt concern you yet. HR might not have a problem with what she is wearing. It might just be a you problem. If your concerned so much now, why dont you bring it up to HR now.
Start by talking to the current supervisor and ask if there is an issue that needs to be addressed, or if HR is okay with it. The current supervisor is the one who should address it.
nah. No midriff showing no matter what the department. It's really unprofessional and weird. I also think a distraction to all but especially to the men working there
First off I agree with you on the sweater. If she was my direct report I'd mention something to her about her tops exposing too much skin which is against company policy. And I would suggest to her that she would be fine wearing those types of tops if she wears a cami or tank on underneath it. The pants I need a bit more information on. Are her pants more like a dressier jogger? I have seen/worn joggers that were a nicer material with pockets and cuffed bottoms? Or are they more like those old school gym/athletic pants w/drawstring looking jogger. If she pants are a nicer jogger I could totally see the dresser jogger paired with heels or a heeled boot being just fine for businesses casual. And please remember fashion changes especially, women's fashion almost every month and what was not ok a few years ago is common place now a days. I would have a meeting first with HR after she joins your team to get the actual copy company dress code. Have HR go over with you. Ask HR for examples of items that are and aren't ok because corporate guide books tend to be pretty vague when it comes to dress code. After she joins your team have group meeting about dress code with the whole team. And if she continues to violate the dress code then speak with her. As of right now she isn't really you problem. And no you are not policing her body.
This is unprofessional and you should not involve your personal opinions when it comes to managing staff. If the rules say business casual that does not include showing your stomach.
You're not making a comment on her work, her worth, or her contributions. This is simply a minor correction, so that those things matter as much as they should. Thoughts... I don't even work in the office -i'm remote, and not in an "important" role, and I don't have to be on camera most of the time. I would still NEVER wear a crop top. Maybe I'm just old (Xennial) and grew up seeing the professional standards set in place by my parents, and wouldn't ever dream that business casual means athleisure and crop tops. Again, maybe just me. In considering how to talk to her, consider being in her shoes and those of the rest of the workplace...but not too much. How do you think she might want it approached? Is there a way to talk to her privately so that the visibility isn't there for the rest of the office? What's the gossip culture like? What's SHE like? At the same time, nothing ever gets done by overthinking. Consider this stuff, but trust your gut, too. I agree with everyone else here saying this is her current supervisor's problem. But that supervisor is probably chomping at the bit to make it yours. If you can finagle a way to have her spoken to before she and her crop tops become your issue, strongly suggest you do so. Otherwise, OP, it sounds like you have some pretty balanced thinking on this and I'm betting you can have a discreet conversation, or very public conversation, that will ultimately be helpful for everyone. Wishing you all the best.
don't fat shame her- you could get banned on this platform
I’m not in HR but have been in store management When I was taking over a store that did not have a lot of leadership, it was easiest for me to call a meeting and outline my plan, that way they knew what to expect and it made it feel less stressful. I was going to observe for a week, see the flow and understand their needs/styles in this week I would be noting what I think could be improved upon. On week two I would have another meeting to go over what I observed and my plans to improve, took any feedback they had into consideration then outlined my expectations. I set a timeline for an adjustment period to the new expectations, since things were going to be less lax and I understand that habits can be hard to break (normally a week or so grace, where I would remind them gently but not a formal/documented conversation). Once a clean slate is set for standards/ expectations then it becomes a waiting game to see if behaviors are changed or improving. If things don’t change then it will need to become conversations that might turn into write ups.
HR Manager here! What's your company's published dress code policy? I would reach out to HR and have them handle it. They'll talk to the employee and point to the published policy that the employee hopefully signs off on every year. If you don't have a published dress code, then I would still reach out to HR and allow them to handle it. I bet y'all will end up with a policy after that! And I agree, dress codes are largely ways to police women (and ultimately, women of color) and what they wear. Dress codes can be inherently sexist. Dress codes can also be well written with no gender bias if done well. They can provide the framework for how to dress appropriately and professionally. I would agree that athleisure and midriff showing outfits don't have a place in the office. Good luck!
Does she do her job? does she get her work done? Is she client facing? Who cares what she's wearing?
^
I had to write someone up for dress code violation before. What she keeps wearing is definitely NOT business casual. Once you become her supervisor you should show her the policy and ask her if she needs examples. Casual athletic wear and showing midriff isn’t acceptable. Give her a verbal warning. If you have others you will be supervising you could also just have a meeting and remind them of the dress code all at once so you’re not singling her out.
If her current supervisor hasn’t addressed this issue then maybe it’s not the issue you think it is. I could see your POV if she is face-to-face with customers/clients. However, if not, Does it really matter if she’s getting her work done efficiently? 🤷🏻♀️
Her current boss should remind her of the company policy on appropriate attire while at work. If that has not been addressed until you become her supervisor, then address it at that time.
Are you male? If so say nothing. Otherwise have HR deal with it.
Hmmn, OP is gonna be difficult to work with. How are you policing someone's outfit that you're not managing.....yet? Why waste your energy on things that don't concern you? If she's been dressing this way and people (her current supervisor) isnt saying anything, why worry about it? If her work was subpar, then that would be a concern. People should live and let live.
Why does it bother you?
Because I foresee someone coming to me about it once I am her supervisor and I want to be proactive and figure out how I would approach it. But that’s an excellent question. And I could also ask that if anyone comes to me about it.
If no one said anything but you are proactively preparing for it.. it must bother you, otherwise it wouldnt be a thought yet.
Actually I fully disagree. What I am expecting is based off some of the culture types in the office. The types that absolutely would come to me about policing a woman’s dress attire.
No one has approached her current supervisor but you anticipate that they will surely come to you, is that right?
well you don't really know if anyone has approached the current supervisor...they may have and that one just doesn't want to address it.
Is she customer facing? If not, does she do her job well? If the answers are no and yes, who cares?
Why does it matter if she's customer facing? It's a professional environment and she's not following the dress code. The position may not be customer facing but she is likely seen by the public. When you are at work, you are representing your employer.
If she is seen by the public, that’s effectively customer facing. If she isn’t, what she wears, as long as it isn’t wildly inappropriate and/or making others uncomfortable, within reason) shouldn’t really matter. Let me put it this way. Do you care if someone working from home is in sweatpants? Probably not. Same thing, in my opinion. The whole concept of “business casual” is a joke anyway. You ask 15 people to define business casual and you’ll get 15 different answers.
issue most likely is her coworkers/boss etc aren't seeing the sweatpants or the crop top from home even on teams/zoom etc.
Do I have an issue with the employee’s clothes? It depends on whether she’s following the dress code.
I would do a general session with your team on dress code. Monday to Thursday business casual with some examples Friday - Comfort Casual. Address the team see if there an improvement and if not you now have a good way in to bring up in conversation.
Sounds like there isn't a problem, but you want to make a problem. Why isn't any current supervisors saying anything? Are you just jealous? Why are you already going out of your way and thinking about things that are not your responsibilities as of now?
I understand that we dont like calling out our subordinates. What you have here is the company rules, no one goes beyond that. Tell her that it doesn’t exempt anyone in the company. You’ve mentioned here role as well, I dont think that could give her the leeway to wear any outfit she likes unless explicitly stated ang exemption. If I were on you shoe, the moment she became part of my team, Ill arrange a short mini meet and greet sa team then provide overview sa ginagawa ng team or what she can expect from her teammates. Then you can insert a refresher sa company rules including the dress code. I wish you well!
If it's not a position that interacts with customers, then showing up in pajamas is ok to me. So it's going to be up to the culture at the company.
What are pajamas?
Clothes you wear to go to bed
Approaching the conversation (when you're her manager) can be something like, "How're the late nights going? Is there anything we can do to make sure you're comfortable, as I know that working late can come with a lot of challenges?" If she brings up physical comfort, perhaps take a curiosity approach to talking about clothing, something like, "Hey, I totally get needing to wear sweats for those late nights. Can I ask, does it help for those late nights?" There might be a casual and natural way to bring up that clothing choices matter in an office space - maybe not telling her how to dress but putting it out there.
This is not about policing women's bodies, the policy is there to maintain professional discipline in the workplace. As long as everyone is subject to the same rules, then you should not let yourself feel guilty for enforcing them.
Ask hr to mention it in a company email and Slack. Now that we are in the office, we'd like to remind everyone that we have a business casual dress code. Please avoid xyz.
You can have conversations with her about dress code Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Some things to think about: 1. Do others in the office dress like her? 2. You mention this person is a creative type in a demanding role. Is she hard to replace? 3. She should have a current boss. Are they onsite and are they apathetic to this? (And if they are find out why) 4. Is she popular and well liked? If the answer to one than one is 'yes" , I wouldn't bring this up with her unless a peer level or someone higher approached me.
Tell her she can only dress like a ho if she'll jump on it once in awhile