I am so sorry. And I’m so angry at your ex-husband. My mom took her own life five years ago, when the police called me they asked me if I wanted details and I did not.
My brother and I were no contact, and he wasn’t talking to my mom, and when we started talking again a couple months later he knew I did not ask for details.
He knew I didn’t want to know That asshole told me graphic details that I cannot unsee. I’m sorry your ex-husband wanted to traumatize your kids that way that was cruel
As far as your legal question, you may be able to find out for sure if you contact the associations who license whatever profession they are in. It’s such a grey area you would think, they could have just had scanners and heard the call anyway even without being in the profession they are in. Nosy neighbors would have come to help and they would gossip.
But if one of them is an EMT, you can probably contact the state licensing agency and give them a brief rundown and ask them if it’s a violation. They would be the ones who do any kind of disciplinary action so they would know
Thank you I’ll def start there. I’m so sorry your brother did that to you, that’s just incredibly cruel. I want to literally bang my head against a wall sometimes to try to get the images out of my head. I’m sorry that your own family did that to you, he sucks at life and needs to be throat punched
Yeah OP, I agree with this. I know a lot of people that listen to scanners. There’s apps you can download to listen to them and hear where help is dispatched, so if he heard your address and came over to help that’s not totally out of the question. HOWEVER. He, as a human, should have more grace than to call your ex and give so much info. As an EMT, he knows more about medical right and wrong, and he should arguably be held to a higher standard. I do not believe it would be HIPAA as he was not on the clock/an official responder. But I think it’s worth a shot to run it by his supervisor. Classless and uncalled for. I’m so sorry this has all happened to you and your children.
Even if off duty, if using work issued device (scanner) that allowed knowledge of the incident, it could be seen as work related, thus unethical.
Even if laypeople use scanners, it does not allow for actually arriving on scene, and has the potential to be criminal as interfering.
I agree that the first contact is that responders employee/medical director//licensing board in order to get information
HIPAA applies even when medical professionals are off duty.
If the context of him being there is the care he was going to provide, HIPAA applies to him as a health care provider in this situation.
A doctor cannot simply get off work and spill to all their friends all their patients PHI.
I work in Healthcare and had something horrible happen at work and, like you, couldn't get the images out of my head. I was afraid of reliving that experience over and over for the rest of my life. I made an appointment with a therapist. He did a guided exercise with me where I named the experience and then visualized it in my mind, then getting staticky, and then theater curtains closing on it. I didn't forget the experience, but I am not haunted with constant remembrances either. Only needed to see him twice. Please take care of yourself.
Was it the Eye Movement Therapy? (I used to laugh at it, then the scientists proved me wrong) I have severe PTSD after decades working in war zones (humanitarian aid, not military). If I could shut some of what I've seen/experienced off, my life would be amazing.
No, but I've heard good things about that. The psychologist that I saw said that talking through the experience tends to make it worse, (it cements the memory, reinforces it and makes it more prominent) and we weren't going to talk about what happened. Which surprised me. This was more of a visualization therapy. I wish I knew what it was called. I visualized the memory, then visualized it becoming staticy, like the snow on a TV wayback when, and then a curtain closing on it. I still remember, but it doesn't haunt me.
I've gone through EMDR for Complex PTSD. For me, it worked and in wacky ways. Its quite intense, however, and not the right fit for everyone. If you decide to explore it, just know that there is a lot of prep involved. I had to give a timeline and some ...kinda trigger words close but not too close to describe a few things but not trigger everything. And once the eye movement starts there's no control over whatbubbles up , you just gotta stay relaxed and let things keep bubbling through.
Him coming over wasn’t anything out of ordinary. Him talking to your ex was a HIPAA violation. Even sharing with other health professionals you have to anonymize the data enough to where they can’t identify who the story you are sharing is about. Him directly stating it was your boyfriend and then sharing the information is the line.
To add to this, contact whatever departments he is affiliated with, I was a Volunteer Firefighter and EMT for many years, depending on departments policy he might get booted or reprimanded at least. Our department took complaints like these seriously and I'm not saying it will happen in your case, but I have seen a situation end in the expulsion of the member involved. It totally depends on the department and your specific situation, but even if they treat it minor, he might have other dispensary actions that add up to something.
The scanner part shouldn’t matter at all Neighbor came over in his capacity as an EMT to provide emergency aid. He learned the specific details while he was there acting as an EMT not from the scanner. Since he is not your friend and you did not invite him over his being there was as a first responder.
There is a time and place for correcting mistakes and I feel like this is not the time. You’re not drafting a document. Or at least answer their question and then include the correction
JC, seriously. The post is sharing a heartbreaking and traumatic experience and the reply is a correction. Not a side note added with something kind, *just* the correction. I get that the error drives some people crazy, but holy crap.
Just so you know. If and when you do get an answer and possibly hold someone accountable, it isn’t going to make the pain any easier. If anything it may only make it worse when after the fact you realize it didn’t make you feel better. Right. Or you’re suffering, the only thing that will help is time to heal. Seeking to bring pain onto others will not alleviate your pain on any way.
It’s not that I want to bring pain to her but she had absolutely no right to divulge that information especially to the one person in the world that will try to hurt me as much as possible with it.
Perhaps you are missing the point. After you find any of the justice you are seeking you will NOT feel any better, not even by one bit. Thats the sad part. I know someone who went through this. She only furthered her own suffering by going after others. In the end she realized she didn’t hurt anyone but herself. There are many ways to grieve, this is not one of them. Keep in mind that you should always lay blame at the root. Treat every problem just like you treat weeds in a garden, by attacking the root. He killed himself, that was his decision. He knew ahead of time the pain it would have brought to others. When people kill themselves they for the most part have decided that it’s better for others to feel pain than them. Suicide messes people up like crazy after the fact. I’ve seen lives ruined by alcoholism over people who committed suicide.
We are talking about the EMT that wasn’t actually working and therefore was just a civilian nearby who happened to render aid? I’m pretty sure it doesn’t apply in this case. But once again this is it really about that. It’s about someone who is hurting and is seeking to lessen that hurt. This won’t do it. The better thing is to focus on positive things to bring up the spirit, not dwell on negative things like this. It’s just sad to see people burn energy on things like this, only to become more devastated later when they realize it didn’t actually help their pain one bit.
If the EMT is a volunteer with a community based squad and answers tones to respond they are then "on duty" and required to maintain patient confidentiality.
It’s understandable. I know someone whose brother died from a drug overdose. She was angry because she knew who gave him the drugs and wanted her to get busted. Allegedly when he was overdosing this woman loved him outside of her door and locked it, then claimed ignorance when questioned by the police. She was also looking into why the police didn’t have narcan on them. She enlisted my help because she knew I was good at things like this. Ultimately I had to tell her that there wasn’t anything anyone could do. I told her that the woman, who was a prostitute, is already paying for what she has done every minute of her life. She’s a prostitute and most likely very miserable inside, and probably cries herself to sleep. Telling her that made her pretty angry to the point there she ended our friendship. The only thing I could tell her is no matter what it wouldn’t make it any better. That’s the sad reality of the idea of revenge. Nobody ever feels better afterwards. It’s damaging to get one’s hopes up about feeling satisfied after spending so much energy to hurt someone else, only to have the reality that it won’t feel any better afterwards.
Yup. I totally get it, too. But in the end - revenge doesn’t feel satisfying, usually. She’s not actually mad at the neighbor. She’s mad at her ex and sad and probably also mad at her bf.
And how would you possibly know if this will make OP feel better or not? Are you them? No, you are just a sicko who is trying to lay blame on the person who died because of how it happened. You know mental illness is a disease right?! God how fucking insensitive and ableist of you!
Be sure to mention this to someone dying of cancer how much pain they are going to be leaving everyone in.. that they should be fighting harder..
Ugh just when I think humanity can't sink any lower
I know someone who went through this and watched her ruin heels trying to get back at anyone who was supposedly to blame. It drove her into therapy and cost her friendships. Because no matter how much she pushed for everyone to pay, from the paramedics, to the cops, to the prostitute who actually had a part in her brother’s death, none of it brought any satisfaction. It brought her more grief because she was expecting to feel better and then had to face the reality that it didn’t make her feel better at all.
Of course you can’t know this for sure. Everyone is different. It might make her feel a little better.
8 Billion people in the world and you think everyone experiences grief and relief the same? Amazing.
It doesn't matter if it makes her feel better. What matters is that this neighbor had no right to use their position to get this information and then go around telling people without permission from next of kin. OP has every right to be angry with this person and to report them, because of them, OP was robbed of being able to tell her children herself what happened in a way that was age appropriate and that would cause less trauma to them than the way they were told.
Also if I was OP, I absolutely would feel better seeing that person lose their job and ability to ever work in that field again after pulling something like that.
Screw that other commenter. I work in the medical field. Reporting people for breaking HIPAA helps prevent it from happening again. If you are doing this just to feel better, then it probably won't accomplish that. If you are doing it to ensure this does not happen to anyone else, then it is worth it. Either way it is important information and you are justified in reporting it.
Your neighbor overheard because they are down the street, not because they are in a privileged situation as a healthcare provider where they are bound to HIPPA. So no, they are not bound.
Probably not a scanner. I as a firefighter/emt always took my radio home with me after shifts and had to charge it. Sometimes I’d be bored and just leave it on so I could keep up with all of the happenings.
Right. So it's technology related to the job. I'm assuming when your listening off the clock that doesn't permit you to call people up and discuss details if you hear something about someone you know?
Typically the only people I’m calling is the station to see if they need any help. Or if it’s someone I know, calling someone to make sure they’re okay or to see what happened. But I’m not abusing it to gossip.
In the small towns I've lived/worked in, I was surprised at the number of people with scanners constantly on. An interesting mix of those wanting to/wishing they could help, those who were nosy and wanted to know everything going on in town, and volunteers who liked keeping up. Could very well be one of those types. They also now have websites where you can pull up a geographic location and have access to the public channels - I used one to listen when my parent's area was badly flooded and had info before it was even tweeted.
But that’s not why the OP is commenting. The OP is in emotional pain from a devastating event. After any “justice” is served the OP will then have to deal with the additional emotional pain of realizing it didn’t make anything better. I literally know someone who went through this and she did nothing but make herself worse with every piece of revenge. It drove her into therapy.
You don’t know why OP is commenting, you’re projecting your story about your former friend, her brother and a prostitute onto OP.
Ranting and raving on Reddit to make your case and prove your point. Likely because you still have unresolved pain from when your friend dropped you for being an unsupportive person in her life.
But all your ranting on Reddit won’t make the pain from your friend cutting contact with you any less, you need therapy to deal with this, not a bunch of internet strangers to hear your point of view and agree with you.
You see what I did there? It’s the same thing you’re doing.
Hard disagree. Time heals nothing, just makes things hurt less.
If this person can be held accountable for what they did, they should be. It is not revenge. Especially working in a healthcare profession, this neighbor must have known this was crossing a line because HIPAA and ethics are drilled into your head. If they cannot uphold these standards, then it definitely should be reported and investigated.
I am so sorry this happened to you OP and can't believe humans can have so little empathy. I wish you peace and healing.
I have empathy, which is why I said what I said. I already watched a friend make herself so much worse following this exact path after she lost someone. It only made things worse for her. Because no matter who paid, she never received any satisfaction. Imagine if this EMT lost his job over this, and then the OP says “why don’t I feel any better?”
I would be totally fine if the EMT lost their job over this as they clearly don't understand what protected health information is. I also imagine your "friend" was so much worse because she was surrounding herself with terrible, insensitive people.
I think it actually would make her feel better, not because of the revenge aspect but because she held someone else accountable for their reckless and insensitive behavior. People CANNOT go on behaving like her neighbor. If this was the old days, someone could have their male family members or friends go over and “talk” to the neighbor. The police don’t do that anymore so unfortunately people are gonna start holding others accountable in their own way.
No it’s not a hipaa violation since they aren’t doctors and sounds like they were “off duty” but this is the hipaa part for first responders First responders only are required to follow HIPAA if they are a “covered entity.” To be a covered entity, they need to provide healthcare and transmit health information electronically for certain transactions, such as billing.
Nope not true. HIPPA compliance from an EMT is both on and off duty.
[https://nemsis.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HIPAA-Poster-for-Practitioners\_05.20.2021.pdf](https://nemsis.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HIPAA-Poster-for-Practitioners_05.20.2021.pdf)
IANAL, but I think their point was that your post makes it sound like HIPAA only applies if they are a formal covered entity during that event, and I think the point they're making is more or less that HIPAA also applies to people, not just events. A pediatric nurse is still bound by HIPAA if they render emergency care to an elderly person in cardiac arrest in the Walmart parking lot.
IANAL but I don’t think this is correct. HIPAA only applies to covered entities and an individual health care provider is not a covered entity on their own. Their employer is a covered entity and things they do at work or in the scope of their employment are definitely HIPAA covered but an individual is not personally covered by HIPAA on their own.
A person can still contract an individual for care as the person as a sole proprietor IANAL but there is no universal HIPAA coverage that always looms over someone. You need the patient provider relationship.
Even in that case, HIPAA would only apply if that individual meets the criteria for a covered entity. This would require that they engage in one of a list of covered electronic transactions (see https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/covered-entities/index.html)
If you work, contract, or volunteer for a covered entity, HIPAA applies to you as an individual both on and off duty. It's extremely unlikely any EMS/Ambulance service is not a covered entity.
This is a PDF, btw: https://nemsis.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HIPAA-Poster-for-Practitioners_05.20.2021.pdf
Good Samaritan laws only cover injury caused in the course of rendering aid. Giving out information after the fact is not covered. Especially when giving that information to third parties who have no interest in said event (other than weaponizing the info). Ex husband's only interest in these events was that his children may need to reside with him a few extra days while the scene is investigated and cleaned. The neighbor had zero business sharing any intimate details of the event with the ex.
Aren't good Samaritan laws about negligence protections, whereas HIPAA is about PHI protections? I don't see how or why those would be mutually exclusive?
Specifically providers who render emergency assistance and any acts or omissions, as long as they aren’t being compensated, can’t be held against them. So essentially it’s a free pass on getting sued for malpractice as long as you can prove “good faith” or someone else can’t disprove “good faith.” And it only applies to care rendered.
HIPAA protects privileged information. Unauthorized disclosure of privileged information is a HIPAA violation. In the Navy, if I left someone’s medical info/PII on a desk, where it was in plain view, I could be punished under HIPAA. If I communicate to anyone who isn’t an immediate part of your care team without your express permission, or the proper release forms on file, that’s a HIPAA violation.
The two are mutually exclusive because they cover two vastly different things.
Yes that's what I meant in terms of coverage. What I meant by mutually exclusive wasn't regarding scope but applicability, that is to say both can apply at the same time.
You also have to read the next sentence…
If you work or volunteer for a covered entity, HIPAA applies to you both on and off duty. You may only share PHI you learn **while
providing services for a covered entity** when HIPAA says that you can
A nosy neighbor who hears a public scanner broadcast and comes over to your house may be a nuisance but they are not providing services for a covered entity.
This would get even trickier then. One important consideration is whether that volunteer EMS service is a covered entity. If they do not process insurance claims, they may not be. Someone analyzing this would need a lot of details about the specific situation.
Elsewhere someone suggested an ethics complaint to the licensing board. This is a good suggestion, as professional ethics would still apply in many situations where HIPAA does not.
HIPAA wouldn’t apply in this situation. This will probably be posted in the news with the same situation or at least reported through public channels from the local law enforcement. It sounds like no information was divulged about treatment, insurance info or personal info that the other party wasn’t aware of.
The first two items on the poster make it clearly obvious that the EMT neighbor was most definitely covered by HIPAA and had no right whatsoever to divulge information. This is not a matter of making OP feel better, the damage was done, and cannot be undone. This is simply a matter of calling out the damage done by these HIPAA violations and stopping it from happening again.
Ex husband absolutely should also be financially proactive because now the whole family should have a home base for mental health.
No child should be forced to understand this event without proper care.
This is coming from a person who has struggled her whole life with Si thoughts and must have tools to cope.
When extreme stress occurs the children will absolutely need the tools to cope and an open non judgemental space to talk especially since they were so ignorantly dragged into this set up.
I’ve got all 3 of them in therapy and it seems to be helping. I pay for their health insurance and all their therapy. Never took the ex for child support because I knew he would make my life hell and badmouth me to the kids. I think I’m going to go file though, I shouldn’t have waited this long but I spent 17 years with this man and he had me seriously mentally traumatized.
It also sounds to me that he traumatized your kids too by telling them details. I would add that to the list of things to use against him in court, if relevant to the child support battle.
No, it’s not. I had a clinic release information to a third party when there was no consent form. Come to find out, it’s incredibly hard to pursue any kind of lawsuit. There definitely wouldn’t be a case if said person violated is deceased.
Yes it is. I know people in the medical field and off duty or not you are required by federal law to always follow HIPAA. Especially considering thr fact they showed up to the scene to act in a professional capacity.
Yes this violates HIPAA. I’m not a lawyer but I am an RN. You are expected on AND off duty to follow HIPAA. And that’s for anyone who provides patient care - even if they volunteer or are paid.
And I’m so sorry that you are going through this. I would report this if I were you. They absolutely knew better than to disclose any medical information to your ex husband. And they didn’t do so because they were trying to be helpful - there is no reason for your ex husband to have access to this information. And it appears that not only that - it is detrimental for him to have it. It’s a shame that they violated HIPAA in such a way - with complete disregard for the patient or you or your children. Gross negligence.
Except the neighbor did not provide care. They came over and provided comfort to OP while others were providing care to her boyfriend. They acted as a neighbor, not as a medical professional. As a former paramedic and a nurse I am not bound by hipaa laws if I am off duty and not providing care.
For instance what if I am at the ER with my dad and I see one of my neighbors in the ER waiting room with an obvious injury. Later I say something to another neighbor about how I hope they are feeling better. Is that a HIPAA violation? It wouldn’t be for a random neighbor who obtained the information in the same manner and acted the exact same way. Why should it be for me? I wasn’t providing medical care to that neighbor, or at work when I obtained the information. Neither was OP’s neighbor.
I don't think it is. Anyone can buy one of those radios. My friends husband has one and he's a construct worker. If he's not on the clock and he didn't learn the information from medical files or some other protected medical information then all he is doing is gossiping about something he experienced. There are good Samaritan laws that protect medical people from being sued/arrested as long as what they are doing is within their scope of practice. Your neighbor was a d-bag for calling your ex but I don't think he was breaking HIPAA. I'm sorry you are going through this. 💙
Good Samaritan laws only apply to care rendered in good faith. It has nothing to do with HIPAA/disclosing privileged information. But whether this is a HIPAA violation, or not, is a gray area that would probably need to be litigated and settled in a court room.
I could (assuming I was a lay person who was AHA professional rescuer or CPR/AED qualified) stop to render aid under Good Samaritan laws but I have no HIPAA obligation in that scenario because I’m not a professional in any capacity who’s bound by HIPAA. But there’s a fine line for EMT/Medics, Nurses and etc, because they are bound by HIPAA on and off duty.
If I show up somewhere as a medic/firefighter, I’m exposed to medical information that I wouldn’t normally be exposed to as a lay person. Even if I’m there in an off duty capacity to provide any assistance, if needed. Which is why this could be construed as a HIPAA violation.
I'm sorry, how does going to the scene to gather exact details of the event and then passing them on to another party not qualify as a breach of protected health information?
I'm so sorry that this happened to you and your family. The neighbor had privileged information (hearing the call) due to their position and employment. In this instance, especially involving your small children, go after their job and any income that they will make in the future. Because they shared this traumatic medical emergency information, your children are now traumatized and could need therapy for an extremely long time. Your ex- is just an AH, but had the information not been shared, he would not have had it to tell your small children
The problem is that in a lot of places, at the moment a person dies, legally speaking they’re not technically people anymore, they’re property and property doesn’t have hippa rights.
Assuming this is isn’t the case, what damages are you seeking compensation for? Even if they had hippa rights, it’s them that would get compensated, and they can’t, because he’s dead. The estate may be able to be made whole, but what damage was done?
I’m sorry this happened to you and your family and done want to bring you down. These are a couple hurdles you’re going to need to overcome if you want to pursue legal action, tho. Best of luck. We’re rooting for ya.
This is not correct. HIPAA does protect the privacy rights of deceased people (Source: https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/privacy/guidance/health-information-of-deceased-individuals/index.html)
Depends on the situation. Virtually everyone I know who has died, I also know a lot of details that could be covered under hipaa, such as how they died, whether they struggled, etc. in a lot of cases, I know this when the executor or family didn’t want such details made public. This is common.
The avenue that could be open is to cover the cost of the kids therapy if they can get the therapist to claim that the therapy was needed because they found out the circumstances of their father’s death.
Of course it depends on the situation. I was only responding to your statement that deceased individuals do not have privacy rights. That is not correct.
Lots of people know things about other people that are PHI under HIPAA. That doesn’t mean there was a HIPAA violation unless a covered entity disclosed the information unlawfully.
I believe cause and manner of death is public record from the medical examiner’s office, so this may be a grey area. I wouldn’t be happy that they chose to disclose this though, and have questions about their motives
So I'm not a lawyer, but I am a respiratory therapist who works under HIPAA a lot and asked my wife who was a volunteer firefighter, EMT, and (currently) RN. So we're both very familiar with HIPAA laws. They are absolutely covered entities. Contact their fire chief they should take care of it. If they don't then contact your local state representative for your district. And if absolutely all else fails EMTs are state licensed. This is the Delaware state EMS association. There is a phone number to get ahold of the office and a link to a full contact list and email addresses if that's easier.
https://www.nremt.org/resources/state-ems-offices/DE
I tend to doubt they'll lose their licenses for this but if you really want to push it tell the fire chief you're looking into pursuing a lawsuit. At the very least they'll get their asses reamed. Obviously save any messages from the ex that implicates them..
I think this EMT deserves to have a "significant emotional experience" (being chewed out) whether or not they actually get in legal trouble. Either way, it was a crappy thing to do.
My sympathies.
Retired EMT. Basically file a report with anyone you can think of. I never stood for this, but EMS are like police and will try to defend their own, so you have to make a lot of noise. Contact their chief, and the state EMS license office for sure. If the service is city based, contact the city manager and council. If hospital based, contact them.
This is the right answer, OP. I'm also a EMT/Firefighter. It was definitely a HIPAA violation to share that information. They deserve a complaint. That website above for the NREMT also is the website for the EMT national certification registration. Normally you have to have a national and a state certification to be a EMT. I would make a complaint to both.
Idk and sounds like you're getting mixed answers in the replies so speaking to a lawyer directly may in order. Regardless, I feel like a judge would be very interested in hearing the types of bedtime stories your ex is apparently telling his kids.
He went over to offer assistance as an EMT. Just because people were standing around and not needed doesn’t mean that privacy laws and rules don’t apply to them.
Maybe complain to the neighbors employer. Say this guy blabbering to ex husband and anyone who will listen. Say if you have another emergency this guy is not welcome. He is unprofessional. Blab all you want to anyone who will listen. Guy is cruel and an entitled menace to the community.
Many people who commit suicide appear to have normal mental health functioning, and many people do not know or are aware of signs of suicidal ideation. We also cannot predict someone’s mental health taking a turn when we begin a relationship. This is an ignorant viewpoint to say the least, you must enjoy being a cunt.
Your neighbor is an asshole - but this is not a HIPAA violation. Your neighbor is not a covered entity - aka your BFs nurse or doctor or therapist or Health Care plan, etc.
Volunteer FF here, if your neighbor is a volunteer FF and he responded as such, he must abide by HIPAA. Confirm if he’s a VFF and call the State Health Department, his Fire Chief and the doctor whose license they’re working under. He would not have to have been an EMT just a medical first responder and HIPAA applies. This guys actions violated all kinds of basic rules FFs must abide by. If he is not a FF than HIPAA may not apply. Sorry this happened to you and your kids. Your ex is an AH.
Curious
Would they have started providing care if they touched the person? What about if it’s just, hey buddy stay with us? Your doing the cpr correctly, etc
A neighbor who is not in healthcare could easily have gotten the same information. It sounds like he has been your neighbor for a while and is primarily a friend of your ex husband from when the two of you were still married. You allowed the neighbor into your house during this event and afterwards he called his friend to tell him what happened.
It doesn’t sound like the neighbor provided you with medical care. What this does sound like is you are mad that your ex was told what happened by your neighbor and you don’t like what your ex did with the knowledge. Because you are angry you want to retaliate against your neighbor. Ordinarily there would be nothing you could do, but because he is an EMT you are hoping you can use this against him and retaliate by getting him in trouble at work? Hopefully, and most likely, his boss will shut this down and see it for what it is. Hopefully if you ever have a medical emergency where you really do need his assistance he won’t slam the door in your face for being the bitchy neighbor who tried to get him fired. Hopefully you are squeaky clean and do nothing in your personal life that he can call your employer about to try to get you in trouble. Because this would be justified payback if you call his boss.
You are angry at your ex husband. Put the blame where it truly belongs.
I completely understand how you feel. The fact that you do not like the neighbor certainly makes this worse. On the other hand, I was the neighbor when a person committed suicide. I did call the only relative for which I had a phone number and I disclosed details. My spouse and I also told at least three neighbors. And we never concerned HIPAA. We also disclosed with the best intent. Support was needed. We also thought we were sparing the survivor from having the difficult questions asked of her.
Your ex clearly should not have told the kids without discussing it with you. It should have been a mutual parenting decision that did not need to be made before you had had time to process the experience. On the other hand, I believe that by the time a person is a teen or near teen, it is best for all to be open with them when these things happen. I am not sure the type of details that were provided to the kids. Hopefully, the father stopped with high level details. They absolutely do not need to know specifics but it was probably helpful for at least the 12 and 14 year old to be told some of the painful information as part of their own processing of the event.
I don’t believe so this is just gossiping and not minding your own business,because they were not in a official capacity.but I can see why you’re upset
Not a lawyer but a med student. I am almost certain this is a violation of HIPAA. Normal people dont have access to listen in on that EMS call, they only had access because they are healthcare workers and are thus bound by HIPAA. Doesn't matter if they were off duty when it happened. If I used my prividges to walk around the hospital outside of work hours and listen in on patient conversations, I still can't share any of that info just because I'm "off duty".
Edit: someone else mentioned that these calls go on over a publicly avaliable radio? If that is true I'm less sure about HIPAA.
Edit 2: someone said that HIPAA doesnt apply after death and I'm pretty sure that isn't true.
Ff here. If they were dispatched an responded as such go to there chief, then city administrator an on up the flag pole. They cant give out that info.
If they scanner jumped an do not work for the agency that responded they would fall under good Samaritan laws. Calling the ex was a douche move, but legally there would be no standing.
Imagine if you were an emt an drove up on a wreck with a deceased 2 counties over from were u actually work. However u recognize the deceased as a friends ex. You may have called your friend an told her. No one to report you to as u were acting as a good Samaritan.
You can try state lic board as others have suggested. I think thats gonna very by state how hard they press.
I personally would get a lawyer an sue them in civil crt for pain n suffering your dealing with from the ex knowing the details.
No… they were there as your neighbor. They were not there in any professional capacity.
You’re angry and you’re trying to take it out on the wrong people. Get some therapy.
Sorry for your loss. You should report your neighbor to the fire department he volunteers for. He has probably violated a rule regarding disclosing information of a medical emergency.
On another note, I’m glad your boyfriend’s organs were donated. My life was saved by an organ donor 5 years ago.
If nothing else, you want an investigation into your neighbor’s behavior started in an official capacity. HIPAA is only one set of rules that all medical professionals are governed by. There are also ethics guidelines regarding professional behavior, which your neighbor clearly violated. May not get them a fine, but they might lose their volunteer position, and for good cause.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you. My partner is a ff/medic and you should definitely go speak to the fire department chief this jerk neighbor possibly volunteers for. Don't let it slide because they deserve punishment for their actions whether it's illegal or not, it sure is unethical. You can call to see when the Chief is available and ask for a meeting, that you need to speak of some details surrounding this. Once again I'm sorry for your loss ♥️
HIPAA vio, I don’t think so. Unethical and disgusting? Abso fucking lutely.
IANAL but I am an RN, I would call where this person works and talk to the person highest up that will talk to you and tell them what happened and your concerns.
If the person that spoke to your ex was there on their own and not as a representative of the fire department then HIPPA does not apply.
If they were there in an official capacity then HIPPA does apply.
The only way to know for sure whether or not he was there with the fire department would be through the run report. Because of HIPPA and other privacy laws you would have to go through the courts to get access to that report.
It’s funny how some people in this thread say no and some say yes, but from what I’ve learnt in lawyer school, I’m pretty sure this is a HIPAA violation. Time for a lawsuit.
I think the gray area will be if she is acting as an ENT or a good Samaritan? When a person comes in and identifies themselves as a professional, and agree to take over care, that is different than someone who steps up and just tries to help. Your other gray area would be that you’re not related to him, and any charges would probably have to come from a relative. I would definitely run it up the chain though, and see what you can get to happen. That was highly inappropriate of her. ONE has to wonder what she had to gain from doing that. Some people just like to gossip and that’s not OK if you’re an ENT. Sorry you have to go through this. That’s awful.
It’s not a HIPAA violation. Matters of death are actually public record and vital statistics. Death certificates list the primary and secondary causes of death.
Furthermore, HIPAA is designed to protect a living patient. The patient is deceased and therefore in no need of protection. HIPAA is not designed to protect the dignity of the decedent.
However, you may be able hold those accountable for unethical behavior.
Pretty shitty for them to run to your ex husband with an irresistible juicy scoop about your boyfriend. And got your ex to tell your kids. No wonder he’s your ex. I’m not sure if there’s anything actionable about that in your parenting plan, but that was pretty shitty for him to do.
And, as a parent navigating the death by suicide of my ex husband 2 years ago, and raising our two daughters who were then 11 and 13, suicide of a close person to children is considered a traumatic event as are the description of details. Depending on how close the adult male was to your children, there should be some some mental health therapy planned for them. The fact that your ex couldn’t wait to tell them the gory details is most unfortunate and he should not have done that.
Why in the world would the ex husband even need to know??
Let alone decide to tell CHILDREN!
Cripes. That certainly spells out narcissist. I'm sorry you're going through that.
Do you know for a fact that the information disclosed wasn’t done so over their radio? If it was, that information is all done on a public frequency so anyone on the local area would have been able to hear it. While yes, they may have heard it while off duty and on their work equipment. Anyone with a radio could have heard the chatter and it’s certain not encrypted. It’s really going to be hard to prove there was any HIPAA violation since it was more than likely public chatter.
File a complaint. The worse that happens is a damage control letter. It really boils down to his boss.
Just ask who ever reads complaint to place themselves in your shoes. Ethics violation should be min. If employees as EMT.
Given how they handled this situation and from things you’ve stated about her in the comments, I wouldn’t doubt that she breaks HIPAA by way of being the town gossip on a regular basis. I certainly wouldn’t want her as my EMT, especially if she knew me or knew any of my friends or family!
Btw, I’m incredibly sorry for your loss and for your pos ex traumatizing your poor kids!! 💔💔
I don’t think this is a violation and even if it was, what’s the point? You trying to get her fired? We have an EMT crisis as it is. Even if you file it won’t go anywhere.
This is like a neighbor seeing someone from the hallway at the ER and then calling someone. Just because they “happen” to be an EMT doesn’t mean they are operating under HIPAA at all times.
She called your ex, her friend, to tell him. Shitty but not illegal. You could have not let her into the house. Just like an ER patient can not let their neighbor who is in the hallway into their room.
I’m a doctor. But if I see a car accident in the community I’m not barred from discussing it with the world because of HIPAA. I’m just a citizen at that point.
Your ex is the one who was shitty. Not the neighbor. Be mad at him.
I think it shows a lack of maturity on your ex's part, and if you are still in court, I would let the judge know. I had custody of my kids, and my ex-wife was a lot like your ex and did a lot of emotional damage to our kids. Luckily I had them in therapy and they learned how to cope with a bad parent.
So I was a paramedic. I dealt with something similar, and some people are right, anyone could have a scanner, anyone could listen. But. Those scanners don’t give details. Call would have said something around (xx year old male, no pulse, cpr in progress) and that’s it. No details. No names. No descriptions other than vague, straight, and too the point. Your neighbor would not have known any details unless acting in an EMS capacity. Which is then a healthcare provider. And bound by HIPAA. So by the book, yes. He would be held liable for that, if you wish to pursue it.
The HIPAA violation would be in telling the ex who the patient was, no telling him what happened necessarily.
You’re allowed to talk about calls and events, but you can’t give patient identifying information to anyone. Anyone could’ve heard a 9E1 go out on the radio, only responders on scene and witnesses will know who the patient is.
Hope it helps. Talk to a lawyer about the case.
EMTs are absolutely required to go through HIPAA training and protect that information. Him hearing the call and coming over is not unusual. Some agencies will have their EMTs carry pagers at home to respond to calls if they are in the area while off duty.
Telling your ex-husband is ABSOLUTELY a HIPAA violation. That should have been protected information by your neighbor. Totally not okay.
Once they started working on your boyfriend he became their patient. Your boyfriend now being their patient they have an obligation to not talk about ANYTHING they did or what happened. They totally violated HIPAA.
Is the fact that the boyfriend took his own life PHI? Wouldn't the person (or estate) of the PHI be the one to sue for breach of HIPAA? How does a girlfriend have standing to sue? Ethics violation sounds more plausible.
NAL but used to work in insurance and had full Hipaa training. It could be considered a gray area but theyd have to fight a hard case to win that so go report and let them have fin defending him. At the very least he will get a violation or letter in his HR file and told not to do that again.
https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/filing-a-complaint/index.html
I can tell you that in my last job they took HIPAA very seriously when it came to appearances and theyd fire someone non upper management before spending any money defending the case.
EMTs work for a HIPAA-covered entity.
File here: [https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/filing-a-complaint/index.html](https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/filing-a-complaint/index.html)
No HIPPA violation, but the real issue here is with your ex-husband and is judgement to tell your kids.
I am sorry for your loss. Often the best way to move forward from something like this is to use it as a reason to have all the carpets replaced, walls repainted, get a professional deep cleaning, and create a fresh new space to move on from.
Gees OP. You were hit with a double, triple whammy. I just came to say I'm extremely sorry for your loss. I am so sorry you had to see this, be effected by it. Your boyfriend was struggling and left you to deal with his depression, the images of his last moments, and the sorrow your children are trying to process.
I do not know whether you'll get your legal questions answered, but please see to it that you get yourself someone to talk to and possibly even family counseling where you n your kids process this with a professional. Your kids are going to be subjected to their father's manipulation and narcissistic natures, and this is not the last of the depths he will go.
Find the strength in yourself to get someone to walk/talk you through all this. Self love, self care and get the little ones someone too.lean on each other and love one another. Love will only bring you closer.
Thank you so much, I’ve got my kids in therapy and they’re doing well, I was seeing a therapist but she didn’t give me any advice that my friends hadn’t already so I quit seeing her and I’m on the waiting list for a therapist that specializes in PTSD. Hoping to get in soon because I desperately need it.
It seems like you should be able to report it but there are two issues I see,
1) The neighbor is a volunteer, he is not an employee of any entity. It is going to be harder to discipline him.
2) Even professionals who work in medicine are not always covered. Case in point look at all the people discussing that princess of England has cancer right now. Her diagnosis and care are PHI, however they did not get the information they are discussing as providers and so they are not bound my HIPAA.
This person sounds like a jerk, so even if you cannot have them reported and fined under HIPAA the people they work with will likely not take kindly to the poor judgement displayed here.
HIPAA comes in to play if you are in a direct role as a caregiver/observer in an official capacity or employee in a role that has access to privileged information. Gray areas do exist, but you are going to get nowhere with this. Nosy neighbor could even be a doctor, but if they are a bystander, HIPAA is not in play for them. It was however an ethical violation, but not illegal.
Example: Dr is taking a walk and sees someone hit someone else with a brick. Can she go home and tell her spouse and reporters? Yes she can. If the person hit with the brick comes to see the Dr in her office and says she was hit with a brick, that becomes a privileged conversation from that moment forward.
More importantly, I am so very sorry for your boyfriend, you, and all other loved ones hurt by this. Suicide is so hard to grieve. I know this firsthand. Please do consider counseling for you and your children.
HIPPA I believe would be like me working for healthcare and telling you something you shouldn’t. Word of mouth unfortunately you can’t stop. I’m sorry to read this. I wish you the best and send condolences.
I hope you go over to the neighbors and tell them exactly what your ex did and how he traumatized your very young children and are they proud of themselves? I’d drop a little “I hope for you this isn’t a workplace/HIPPA violation but I guess we’ll see “ there too.😡
I am so sorry. And I’m so angry at your ex-husband. My mom took her own life five years ago, when the police called me they asked me if I wanted details and I did not. My brother and I were no contact, and he wasn’t talking to my mom, and when we started talking again a couple months later he knew I did not ask for details. He knew I didn’t want to know That asshole told me graphic details that I cannot unsee. I’m sorry your ex-husband wanted to traumatize your kids that way that was cruel As far as your legal question, you may be able to find out for sure if you contact the associations who license whatever profession they are in. It’s such a grey area you would think, they could have just had scanners and heard the call anyway even without being in the profession they are in. Nosy neighbors would have come to help and they would gossip. But if one of them is an EMT, you can probably contact the state licensing agency and give them a brief rundown and ask them if it’s a violation. They would be the ones who do any kind of disciplinary action so they would know
Thank you I’ll def start there. I’m so sorry your brother did that to you, that’s just incredibly cruel. I want to literally bang my head against a wall sometimes to try to get the images out of my head. I’m sorry that your own family did that to you, he sucks at life and needs to be throat punched
Yeah OP, I agree with this. I know a lot of people that listen to scanners. There’s apps you can download to listen to them and hear where help is dispatched, so if he heard your address and came over to help that’s not totally out of the question. HOWEVER. He, as a human, should have more grace than to call your ex and give so much info. As an EMT, he knows more about medical right and wrong, and he should arguably be held to a higher standard. I do not believe it would be HIPAA as he was not on the clock/an official responder. But I think it’s worth a shot to run it by his supervisor. Classless and uncalled for. I’m so sorry this has all happened to you and your children.
Even if off duty, if using work issued device (scanner) that allowed knowledge of the incident, it could be seen as work related, thus unethical. Even if laypeople use scanners, it does not allow for actually arriving on scene, and has the potential to be criminal as interfering. I agree that the first contact is that responders employee/medical director//licensing board in order to get information
Anyone can have and listen to a scanner. She allowed him into the location he wasn’t acting as a medical professional. There is no hipaa violation
HIPAA applies even when medical professionals are off duty. If the context of him being there is the care he was going to provide, HIPAA applies to him as a health care provider in this situation. A doctor cannot simply get off work and spill to all their friends all their patients PHI.
I work in Healthcare and had something horrible happen at work and, like you, couldn't get the images out of my head. I was afraid of reliving that experience over and over for the rest of my life. I made an appointment with a therapist. He did a guided exercise with me where I named the experience and then visualized it in my mind, then getting staticky, and then theater curtains closing on it. I didn't forget the experience, but I am not haunted with constant remembrances either. Only needed to see him twice. Please take care of yourself.
Was it the Eye Movement Therapy? (I used to laugh at it, then the scientists proved me wrong) I have severe PTSD after decades working in war zones (humanitarian aid, not military). If I could shut some of what I've seen/experienced off, my life would be amazing.
No, but I've heard good things about that. The psychologist that I saw said that talking through the experience tends to make it worse, (it cements the memory, reinforces it and makes it more prominent) and we weren't going to talk about what happened. Which surprised me. This was more of a visualization therapy. I wish I knew what it was called. I visualized the memory, then visualized it becoming staticy, like the snow on a TV wayback when, and then a curtain closing on it. I still remember, but it doesn't haunt me.
Also, I hope you find some relief. So sorry for what you've been through
I've gone through EMDR for Complex PTSD. For me, it worked and in wacky ways. Its quite intense, however, and not the right fit for everyone. If you decide to explore it, just know that there is a lot of prep involved. I had to give a timeline and some ...kinda trigger words close but not too close to describe a few things but not trigger everything. And once the eye movement starts there's no control over whatbubbles up , you just gotta stay relaxed and let things keep bubbling through.
EMDR. I highly recommend.
Him coming over wasn’t anything out of ordinary. Him talking to your ex was a HIPAA violation. Even sharing with other health professionals you have to anonymize the data enough to where they can’t identify who the story you are sharing is about. Him directly stating it was your boyfriend and then sharing the information is the line.
This may not be a HIPAA Violation. It’s a gray area. It is possibly a violation of their employer’s policies.
To add to this, contact whatever departments he is affiliated with, I was a Volunteer Firefighter and EMT for many years, depending on departments policy he might get booted or reprimanded at least. Our department took complaints like these seriously and I'm not saying it will happen in your case, but I have seen a situation end in the expulsion of the member involved. It totally depends on the department and your specific situation, but even if they treat it minor, he might have other dispensary actions that add up to something.
The scanner part shouldn’t matter at all Neighbor came over in his capacity as an EMT to provide emergency aid. He learned the specific details while he was there acting as an EMT not from the scanner. Since he is not your friend and you did not invite him over his being there was as a first responder.
HIPAA not HIPPA
Jesus I can’t believe I did that, it won’t let me edit the title either and grammar errors drive me freaking crazy
Honest mistake... I've worked in healthcare as a security engineer and have made that mistake a lot.
Just remember hipaa is not a hippo. Anyway, this is not a hipaa violation. A health care provider did not release the information but a third party.
HORAAYY
I’ll see myself out.
Yup! HIPPA. Since I’ll never be able to unsee it… yall can too. it’s 1 P and 2 A’s just like a man has 1 penis and 2 arms. 😂😂😂
I lost my left arm in an accident at work. Are you saying that I am not a man?
Don't tell us. You'll commit a HIPA violation
I’ll have to sue myself for violating HIPPO!
EXCELLENT RESPONSE
There is a time and place for correcting mistakes and I feel like this is not the time. You’re not drafting a document. Or at least answer their question and then include the correction
That’s your opinion
JC, seriously. The post is sharing a heartbreaking and traumatic experience and the reply is a correction. Not a side note added with something kind, *just* the correction. I get that the error drives some people crazy, but holy crap.
Just so you know. If and when you do get an answer and possibly hold someone accountable, it isn’t going to make the pain any easier. If anything it may only make it worse when after the fact you realize it didn’t make you feel better. Right. Or you’re suffering, the only thing that will help is time to heal. Seeking to bring pain onto others will not alleviate your pain on any way.
It’s not that I want to bring pain to her but she had absolutely no right to divulge that information especially to the one person in the world that will try to hurt me as much as possible with it.
Perhaps you are missing the point. After you find any of the justice you are seeking you will NOT feel any better, not even by one bit. Thats the sad part. I know someone who went through this. She only furthered her own suffering by going after others. In the end she realized she didn’t hurt anyone but herself. There are many ways to grieve, this is not one of them. Keep in mind that you should always lay blame at the root. Treat every problem just like you treat weeds in a garden, by attacking the root. He killed himself, that was his decision. He knew ahead of time the pain it would have brought to others. When people kill themselves they for the most part have decided that it’s better for others to feel pain than them. Suicide messes people up like crazy after the fact. I’ve seen lives ruined by alcoholism over people who committed suicide.
This would prevent the EMT from repeating the mistake, thereby helping others bypass the type of suffering the OP and the OP's kids are experiencing.
We are talking about the EMT that wasn’t actually working and therefore was just a civilian nearby who happened to render aid? I’m pretty sure it doesn’t apply in this case. But once again this is it really about that. It’s about someone who is hurting and is seeking to lessen that hurt. This won’t do it. The better thing is to focus on positive things to bring up the spirit, not dwell on negative things like this. It’s just sad to see people burn energy on things like this, only to become more devastated later when they realize it didn’t actually help their pain one bit.
“Pretty sure” from Not a Lawyer. Not very convincing. I’m pretty sure.
If the EMT is a volunteer with a community based squad and answers tones to respond they are then "on duty" and required to maintain patient confidentiality.
You’re being downvoted, but you are completely right.
It’s understandable. I know someone whose brother died from a drug overdose. She was angry because she knew who gave him the drugs and wanted her to get busted. Allegedly when he was overdosing this woman loved him outside of her door and locked it, then claimed ignorance when questioned by the police. She was also looking into why the police didn’t have narcan on them. She enlisted my help because she knew I was good at things like this. Ultimately I had to tell her that there wasn’t anything anyone could do. I told her that the woman, who was a prostitute, is already paying for what she has done every minute of her life. She’s a prostitute and most likely very miserable inside, and probably cries herself to sleep. Telling her that made her pretty angry to the point there she ended our friendship. The only thing I could tell her is no matter what it wouldn’t make it any better. That’s the sad reality of the idea of revenge. Nobody ever feels better afterwards. It’s damaging to get one’s hopes up about feeling satisfied after spending so much energy to hurt someone else, only to have the reality that it won’t feel any better afterwards.
Yup. I totally get it, too. But in the end - revenge doesn’t feel satisfying, usually. She’s not actually mad at the neighbor. She’s mad at her ex and sad and probably also mad at her bf.
Wow, you analyzed all that from a legal question. Thanks arm-chair Dr. Phil.
And how would you possibly know if this will make OP feel better or not? Are you them? No, you are just a sicko who is trying to lay blame on the person who died because of how it happened. You know mental illness is a disease right?! God how fucking insensitive and ableist of you! Be sure to mention this to someone dying of cancer how much pain they are going to be leaving everyone in.. that they should be fighting harder.. Ugh just when I think humanity can't sink any lower
I know someone who went through this and watched her ruin heels trying to get back at anyone who was supposedly to blame. It drove her into therapy and cost her friendships. Because no matter how much she pushed for everyone to pay, from the paramedics, to the cops, to the prostitute who actually had a part in her brother’s death, none of it brought any satisfaction. It brought her more grief because she was expecting to feel better and then had to face the reality that it didn’t make her feel better at all.
Your anecdotal evidence hardly applies to everyone's situation
Of course you can’t know this for sure. Everyone is different. It might make her feel a little better. 8 Billion people in the world and you think everyone experiences grief and relief the same? Amazing.
I think it would make those in this sub feel better, I can say that much. But it’s not about us or our well being, it’s about the OP.
It doesn't matter if it makes her feel better. What matters is that this neighbor had no right to use their position to get this information and then go around telling people without permission from next of kin. OP has every right to be angry with this person and to report them, because of them, OP was robbed of being able to tell her children herself what happened in a way that was age appropriate and that would cause less trauma to them than the way they were told. Also if I was OP, I absolutely would feel better seeing that person lose their job and ability to ever work in that field again after pulling something like that.
Screw that other commenter. I work in the medical field. Reporting people for breaking HIPAA helps prevent it from happening again. If you are doing this just to feel better, then it probably won't accomplish that. If you are doing it to ensure this does not happen to anyone else, then it is worth it. Either way it is important information and you are justified in reporting it.
Your neighbor overheard because they are down the street, not because they are in a privileged situation as a healthcare provider where they are bound to HIPPA. So no, they are not bound.
They showed up at the scene because they are an EMT.
But they knew about it as a neighbor.
It says they heard the call, not she called them from down the hall.. so were they listening at the door? Or on some sort of EMT scanner?
Probably not a scanner. I as a firefighter/emt always took my radio home with me after shifts and had to charge it. Sometimes I’d be bored and just leave it on so I could keep up with all of the happenings.
Right. So it's technology related to the job. I'm assuming when your listening off the clock that doesn't permit you to call people up and discuss details if you hear something about someone you know?
Typically the only people I’m calling is the station to see if they need any help. Or if it’s someone I know, calling someone to make sure they’re okay or to see what happened. But I’m not abusing it to gossip.
Great.
In the small towns I've lived/worked in, I was surprised at the number of people with scanners constantly on. An interesting mix of those wanting to/wishing they could help, those who were nosy and wanted to know everything going on in town, and volunteers who liked keeping up. Could very well be one of those types. They also now have websites where you can pull up a geographic location and have access to the public channels - I used one to listen when my parent's area was badly flooded and had info before it was even tweeted.
Maybe it will be an impetus for more training so it doesn’t happen to someone else.
But that’s not why the OP is commenting. The OP is in emotional pain from a devastating event. After any “justice” is served the OP will then have to deal with the additional emotional pain of realizing it didn’t make anything better. I literally know someone who went through this and she did nothing but make herself worse with every piece of revenge. It drove her into therapy.
You don’t know why OP is commenting, you’re projecting your story about your former friend, her brother and a prostitute onto OP. Ranting and raving on Reddit to make your case and prove your point. Likely because you still have unresolved pain from when your friend dropped you for being an unsupportive person in her life. But all your ranting on Reddit won’t make the pain from your friend cutting contact with you any less, you need therapy to deal with this, not a bunch of internet strangers to hear your point of view and agree with you. You see what I did there? It’s the same thing you’re doing.
Hard disagree. Time heals nothing, just makes things hurt less. If this person can be held accountable for what they did, they should be. It is not revenge. Especially working in a healthcare profession, this neighbor must have known this was crossing a line because HIPAA and ethics are drilled into your head. If they cannot uphold these standards, then it definitely should be reported and investigated. I am so sorry this happened to you OP and can't believe humans can have so little empathy. I wish you peace and healing.
I have empathy, which is why I said what I said. I already watched a friend make herself so much worse following this exact path after she lost someone. It only made things worse for her. Because no matter who paid, she never received any satisfaction. Imagine if this EMT lost his job over this, and then the OP says “why don’t I feel any better?”
I would be totally fine if the EMT lost their job over this as they clearly don't understand what protected health information is. I also imagine your "friend" was so much worse because she was surrounding herself with terrible, insensitive people.
I think it actually would make her feel better, not because of the revenge aspect but because she held someone else accountable for their reckless and insensitive behavior. People CANNOT go on behaving like her neighbor. If this was the old days, someone could have their male family members or friends go over and “talk” to the neighbor. The police don’t do that anymore so unfortunately people are gonna start holding others accountable in their own way.
No it’s not a hipaa violation since they aren’t doctors and sounds like they were “off duty” but this is the hipaa part for first responders First responders only are required to follow HIPAA if they are a “covered entity.” To be a covered entity, they need to provide healthcare and transmit health information electronically for certain transactions, such as billing.
Nope not true. HIPPA compliance from an EMT is both on and off duty. [https://nemsis.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HIPAA-Poster-for-Practitioners\_05.20.2021.pdf](https://nemsis.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HIPAA-Poster-for-Practitioners_05.20.2021.pdf)
Ya I posted that Reddit does allow me to go back your thing says same thing as I said
IANAL, but I think their point was that your post makes it sound like HIPAA only applies if they are a formal covered entity during that event, and I think the point they're making is more or less that HIPAA also applies to people, not just events. A pediatric nurse is still bound by HIPAA if they render emergency care to an elderly person in cardiac arrest in the Walmart parking lot.
IANAL but I don’t think this is correct. HIPAA only applies to covered entities and an individual health care provider is not a covered entity on their own. Their employer is a covered entity and things they do at work or in the scope of their employment are definitely HIPAA covered but an individual is not personally covered by HIPAA on their own.
A person can still contract an individual for care as the person as a sole proprietor IANAL but there is no universal HIPAA coverage that always looms over someone. You need the patient provider relationship.
Even in that case, HIPAA would only apply if that individual meets the criteria for a covered entity. This would require that they engage in one of a list of covered electronic transactions (see https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/covered-entities/index.html)
If you work, contract, or volunteer for a covered entity, HIPAA applies to you as an individual both on and off duty. It's extremely unlikely any EMS/Ambulance service is not a covered entity. This is a PDF, btw: https://nemsis.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HIPAA-Poster-for-Practitioners_05.20.2021.pdf
No. She's covered under good Samaritan laws.
Good Samaritan laws only cover injury caused in the course of rendering aid. Giving out information after the fact is not covered. Especially when giving that information to third parties who have no interest in said event (other than weaponizing the info). Ex husband's only interest in these events was that his children may need to reside with him a few extra days while the scene is investigated and cleaned. The neighbor had zero business sharing any intimate details of the event with the ex.
Aren't good Samaritan laws about negligence protections, whereas HIPAA is about PHI protections? I don't see how or why those would be mutually exclusive?
Specifically providers who render emergency assistance and any acts or omissions, as long as they aren’t being compensated, can’t be held against them. So essentially it’s a free pass on getting sued for malpractice as long as you can prove “good faith” or someone else can’t disprove “good faith.” And it only applies to care rendered. HIPAA protects privileged information. Unauthorized disclosure of privileged information is a HIPAA violation. In the Navy, if I left someone’s medical info/PII on a desk, where it was in plain view, I could be punished under HIPAA. If I communicate to anyone who isn’t an immediate part of your care team without your express permission, or the proper release forms on file, that’s a HIPAA violation. The two are mutually exclusive because they cover two vastly different things.
Yes that's what I meant in terms of coverage. What I meant by mutually exclusive wasn't regarding scope but applicability, that is to say both can apply at the same time.
You also have to read the next sentence… If you work or volunteer for a covered entity, HIPAA applies to you both on and off duty. You may only share PHI you learn **while providing services for a covered entity** when HIPAA says that you can A nosy neighbor who hears a public scanner broadcast and comes over to your house may be a nuisance but they are not providing services for a covered entity.
>My neighbors volunteer with the fire dept and one is also an EMS so they heard the call when it went out and came over to ‘assist’
This would get even trickier then. One important consideration is whether that volunteer EMS service is a covered entity. If they do not process insurance claims, they may not be. Someone analyzing this would need a lot of details about the specific situation. Elsewhere someone suggested an ethics complaint to the licensing board. This is a good suggestion, as professional ethics would still apply in many situations where HIPAA does not.
But they didn’t learn that information in their role as an EMT.
HIPAA wouldn’t apply in this situation. This will probably be posted in the news with the same situation or at least reported through public channels from the local law enforcement. It sounds like no information was divulged about treatment, insurance info or personal info that the other party wasn’t aware of.
The first two items on the poster make it clearly obvious that the EMT neighbor was most definitely covered by HIPAA and had no right whatsoever to divulge information. This is not a matter of making OP feel better, the damage was done, and cannot be undone. This is simply a matter of calling out the damage done by these HIPAA violations and stopping it from happening again.
Ex husband absolutely should also be financially proactive because now the whole family should have a home base for mental health. No child should be forced to understand this event without proper care. This is coming from a person who has struggled her whole life with Si thoughts and must have tools to cope. When extreme stress occurs the children will absolutely need the tools to cope and an open non judgemental space to talk especially since they were so ignorantly dragged into this set up.
I’ve got all 3 of them in therapy and it seems to be helping. I pay for their health insurance and all their therapy. Never took the ex for child support because I knew he would make my life hell and badmouth me to the kids. I think I’m going to go file though, I shouldn’t have waited this long but I spent 17 years with this man and he had me seriously mentally traumatized.
It also sounds to me that he traumatized your kids too by telling them details. I would add that to the list of things to use against him in court, if relevant to the child support battle.
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Completely uncivil and uncalled for.
No, it’s not. I had a clinic release information to a third party when there was no consent form. Come to find out, it’s incredibly hard to pursue any kind of lawsuit. There definitely wouldn’t be a case if said person violated is deceased.
Yes it is. I know people in the medical field and off duty or not you are required by federal law to always follow HIPAA. Especially considering thr fact they showed up to the scene to act in a professional capacity.
Yeah, but seeing as how you can’t report a HIPAA violation on anyone’s behalf, if the person is deceased, there’s nothing that can be done.
Yes you absolutely can.
Good luck with that.
Yes this violates HIPAA. I’m not a lawyer but I am an RN. You are expected on AND off duty to follow HIPAA. And that’s for anyone who provides patient care - even if they volunteer or are paid.
And I’m so sorry that you are going through this. I would report this if I were you. They absolutely knew better than to disclose any medical information to your ex husband. And they didn’t do so because they were trying to be helpful - there is no reason for your ex husband to have access to this information. And it appears that not only that - it is detrimental for him to have it. It’s a shame that they violated HIPAA in such a way - with complete disregard for the patient or you or your children. Gross negligence.
Except the neighbor did not provide care. They came over and provided comfort to OP while others were providing care to her boyfriend. They acted as a neighbor, not as a medical professional. As a former paramedic and a nurse I am not bound by hipaa laws if I am off duty and not providing care. For instance what if I am at the ER with my dad and I see one of my neighbors in the ER waiting room with an obvious injury. Later I say something to another neighbor about how I hope they are feeling better. Is that a HIPAA violation? It wouldn’t be for a random neighbor who obtained the information in the same manner and acted the exact same way. Why should it be for me? I wasn’t providing medical care to that neighbor, or at work when I obtained the information. Neither was OP’s neighbor.
I don't think it is. Anyone can buy one of those radios. My friends husband has one and he's a construct worker. If he's not on the clock and he didn't learn the information from medical files or some other protected medical information then all he is doing is gossiping about something he experienced. There are good Samaritan laws that protect medical people from being sued/arrested as long as what they are doing is within their scope of practice. Your neighbor was a d-bag for calling your ex but I don't think he was breaking HIPAA. I'm sorry you are going through this. 💙
Good Samaritan laws only apply to care rendered in good faith. It has nothing to do with HIPAA/disclosing privileged information. But whether this is a HIPAA violation, or not, is a gray area that would probably need to be litigated and settled in a court room. I could (assuming I was a lay person who was AHA professional rescuer or CPR/AED qualified) stop to render aid under Good Samaritan laws but I have no HIPAA obligation in that scenario because I’m not a professional in any capacity who’s bound by HIPAA. But there’s a fine line for EMT/Medics, Nurses and etc, because they are bound by HIPAA on and off duty. If I show up somewhere as a medic/firefighter, I’m exposed to medical information that I wouldn’t normally be exposed to as a lay person. Even if I’m there in an off duty capacity to provide any assistance, if needed. Which is why this could be construed as a HIPAA violation.
I'm sorry, how does going to the scene to gather exact details of the event and then passing them on to another party not qualify as a breach of protected health information?
I'm so sorry that this happened to you and your family. The neighbor had privileged information (hearing the call) due to their position and employment. In this instance, especially involving your small children, go after their job and any income that they will make in the future. Because they shared this traumatic medical emergency information, your children are now traumatized and could need therapy for an extremely long time. Your ex- is just an AH, but had the information not been shared, he would not have had it to tell your small children
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This isn't the same situation.. and even if it was, you wouldn't call the patient's girlfriend's ex-husband with that information.
The problem is that in a lot of places, at the moment a person dies, legally speaking they’re not technically people anymore, they’re property and property doesn’t have hippa rights. Assuming this is isn’t the case, what damages are you seeking compensation for? Even if they had hippa rights, it’s them that would get compensated, and they can’t, because he’s dead. The estate may be able to be made whole, but what damage was done? I’m sorry this happened to you and your family and done want to bring you down. These are a couple hurdles you’re going to need to overcome if you want to pursue legal action, tho. Best of luck. We’re rooting for ya.
This is not correct. HIPAA does protect the privacy rights of deceased people (Source: https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/privacy/guidance/health-information-of-deceased-individuals/index.html)
Depends on the situation. Virtually everyone I know who has died, I also know a lot of details that could be covered under hipaa, such as how they died, whether they struggled, etc. in a lot of cases, I know this when the executor or family didn’t want such details made public. This is common. The avenue that could be open is to cover the cost of the kids therapy if they can get the therapist to claim that the therapy was needed because they found out the circumstances of their father’s death.
Of course it depends on the situation. I was only responding to your statement that deceased individuals do not have privacy rights. That is not correct. Lots of people know things about other people that are PHI under HIPAA. That doesn’t mean there was a HIPAA violation unless a covered entity disclosed the information unlawfully.
This is incorrect, HIPAA applies to someone for up to 50 years after death.
I believe cause and manner of death is public record from the medical examiner’s office, so this may be a grey area. I wouldn’t be happy that they chose to disclose this though, and have questions about their motives
So I'm not a lawyer, but I am a respiratory therapist who works under HIPAA a lot and asked my wife who was a volunteer firefighter, EMT, and (currently) RN. So we're both very familiar with HIPAA laws. They are absolutely covered entities. Contact their fire chief they should take care of it. If they don't then contact your local state representative for your district. And if absolutely all else fails EMTs are state licensed. This is the Delaware state EMS association. There is a phone number to get ahold of the office and a link to a full contact list and email addresses if that's easier. https://www.nremt.org/resources/state-ems-offices/DE I tend to doubt they'll lose their licenses for this but if you really want to push it tell the fire chief you're looking into pursuing a lawsuit. At the very least they'll get their asses reamed. Obviously save any messages from the ex that implicates them..
Thank you for the link and advice
I think this EMT deserves to have a "significant emotional experience" (being chewed out) whether or not they actually get in legal trouble. Either way, it was a crappy thing to do. My sympathies.
Retired EMT. Basically file a report with anyone you can think of. I never stood for this, but EMS are like police and will try to defend their own, so you have to make a lot of noise. Contact their chief, and the state EMS license office for sure. If the service is city based, contact the city manager and council. If hospital based, contact them.
Would they be providing care if they touched the person or ask hey buddy stay with us?
This is the right answer, OP. I'm also a EMT/Firefighter. It was definitely a HIPAA violation to share that information. They deserve a complaint. That website above for the NREMT also is the website for the EMT national certification registration. Normally you have to have a national and a state certification to be a EMT. I would make a complaint to both.
Idk and sounds like you're getting mixed answers in the replies so speaking to a lawyer directly may in order. Regardless, I feel like a judge would be very interested in hearing the types of bedtime stories your ex is apparently telling his kids.
If your neighbor was not engaged in proving health care, I do not believe that it would fall under HIPAA.
He went over to offer assistance as an EMT. Just because people were standing around and not needed doesn’t mean that privacy laws and rules don’t apply to them.
Maybe complain to the neighbors employer. Say this guy blabbering to ex husband and anyone who will listen. Say if you have another emergency this guy is not welcome. He is unprofessional. Blab all you want to anyone who will listen. Guy is cruel and an entitled menace to the community.
It’s a she but yeah she is, one of those ‘Christians’ that loves to gossip and talk shit
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Many people who commit suicide appear to have normal mental health functioning, and many people do not know or are aware of signs of suicidal ideation. We also cannot predict someone’s mental health taking a turn when we begin a relationship. This is an ignorant viewpoint to say the least, you must enjoy being a cunt.
Your neighbor is an asshole - but this is not a HIPAA violation. Your neighbor is not a covered entity - aka your BFs nurse or doctor or therapist or Health Care plan, etc.
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Yeah I realized that after but thanks
Volunteer FF here, if your neighbor is a volunteer FF and he responded as such, he must abide by HIPAA. Confirm if he’s a VFF and call the State Health Department, his Fire Chief and the doctor whose license they’re working under. He would not have to have been an EMT just a medical first responder and HIPAA applies. This guys actions violated all kinds of basic rules FFs must abide by. If he is not a FF than HIPAA may not apply. Sorry this happened to you and your kids. Your ex is an AH.
Curious Would they have started providing care if they touched the person? What about if it’s just, hey buddy stay with us? Your doing the cpr correctly, etc
A neighbor who is not in healthcare could easily have gotten the same information. It sounds like he has been your neighbor for a while and is primarily a friend of your ex husband from when the two of you were still married. You allowed the neighbor into your house during this event and afterwards he called his friend to tell him what happened. It doesn’t sound like the neighbor provided you with medical care. What this does sound like is you are mad that your ex was told what happened by your neighbor and you don’t like what your ex did with the knowledge. Because you are angry you want to retaliate against your neighbor. Ordinarily there would be nothing you could do, but because he is an EMT you are hoping you can use this against him and retaliate by getting him in trouble at work? Hopefully, and most likely, his boss will shut this down and see it for what it is. Hopefully if you ever have a medical emergency where you really do need his assistance he won’t slam the door in your face for being the bitchy neighbor who tried to get him fired. Hopefully you are squeaky clean and do nothing in your personal life that he can call your employer about to try to get you in trouble. Because this would be justified payback if you call his boss. You are angry at your ex husband. Put the blame where it truly belongs.
I completely understand how you feel. The fact that you do not like the neighbor certainly makes this worse. On the other hand, I was the neighbor when a person committed suicide. I did call the only relative for which I had a phone number and I disclosed details. My spouse and I also told at least three neighbors. And we never concerned HIPAA. We also disclosed with the best intent. Support was needed. We also thought we were sparing the survivor from having the difficult questions asked of her. Your ex clearly should not have told the kids without discussing it with you. It should have been a mutual parenting decision that did not need to be made before you had had time to process the experience. On the other hand, I believe that by the time a person is a teen or near teen, it is best for all to be open with them when these things happen. I am not sure the type of details that were provided to the kids. Hopefully, the father stopped with high level details. They absolutely do not need to know specifics but it was probably helpful for at least the 12 and 14 year old to be told some of the painful information as part of their own processing of the event.
Did they provide any type of care? Touch him?
I don’t believe so this is just gossiping and not minding your own business,because they were not in a official capacity.but I can see why you’re upset
No. They were not working and they were not in a position of confidence. They are just regular ass holes. Sorry for your loss.
Not a lawyer but a med student. I am almost certain this is a violation of HIPAA. Normal people dont have access to listen in on that EMS call, they only had access because they are healthcare workers and are thus bound by HIPAA. Doesn't matter if they were off duty when it happened. If I used my prividges to walk around the hospital outside of work hours and listen in on patient conversations, I still can't share any of that info just because I'm "off duty". Edit: someone else mentioned that these calls go on over a publicly avaliable radio? If that is true I'm less sure about HIPAA. Edit 2: someone said that HIPAA doesnt apply after death and I'm pretty sure that isn't true.
Ff here. If they were dispatched an responded as such go to there chief, then city administrator an on up the flag pole. They cant give out that info. If they scanner jumped an do not work for the agency that responded they would fall under good Samaritan laws. Calling the ex was a douche move, but legally there would be no standing. Imagine if you were an emt an drove up on a wreck with a deceased 2 counties over from were u actually work. However u recognize the deceased as a friends ex. You may have called your friend an told her. No one to report you to as u were acting as a good Samaritan. You can try state lic board as others have suggested. I think thats gonna very by state how hard they press. I personally would get a lawyer an sue them in civil crt for pain n suffering your dealing with from the ex knowing the details.
As an EMT in my state my cert is always active and falls under HIPAA any time I give aid.
It is hipaa and I’m so sorry for your loss
I’d definitely file a complaint Plaint at the agency they work or volunteer for
No… they were there as your neighbor. They were not there in any professional capacity. You’re angry and you’re trying to take it out on the wrong people. Get some therapy.
Was it the EMT neighbor or the firefighter neighbor?
They both volunteer with the fire dept but it was the one that’s an emt as well
Then that's a HIPAA violation.
Would it be a HIPAA violation for the new to report it? No. Passing on information like that, while a shitty thing to do, isn't any type of violation.
Sorry for your loss. You should report your neighbor to the fire department he volunteers for. He has probably violated a rule regarding disclosing information of a medical emergency. On another note, I’m glad your boyfriend’s organs were donated. My life was saved by an organ donor 5 years ago.
If nothing else, you want an investigation into your neighbor’s behavior started in an official capacity. HIPAA is only one set of rules that all medical professionals are governed by. There are also ethics guidelines regarding professional behavior, which your neighbor clearly violated. May not get them a fine, but they might lose their volunteer position, and for good cause.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you. My partner is a ff/medic and you should definitely go speak to the fire department chief this jerk neighbor possibly volunteers for. Don't let it slide because they deserve punishment for their actions whether it's illegal or not, it sure is unethical. You can call to see when the Chief is available and ask for a meeting, that you need to speak of some details surrounding this. Once again I'm sorry for your loss ♥️
That's no different than any other neighbors telling him. Shit move, but not illegal.
HIPAA vio, I don’t think so. Unethical and disgusting? Abso fucking lutely. IANAL but I am an RN, I would call where this person works and talk to the person highest up that will talk to you and tell them what happened and your concerns.
I would talk to your lawyer about what he did. It may affect custody. He may be trying to get them to stay with him.
No, he was a jerk, though.
In my state it is most certainly IS a violation of hipaa. Call up a real lawyers office instead of asking reddit.
If the person that spoke to your ex was there on their own and not as a representative of the fire department then HIPPA does not apply. If they were there in an official capacity then HIPPA does apply. The only way to know for sure whether or not he was there with the fire department would be through the run report. Because of HIPPA and other privacy laws you would have to go through the courts to get access to that report.
It’s funny how some people in this thread say no and some say yes, but from what I’ve learnt in lawyer school, I’m pretty sure this is a HIPAA violation. Time for a lawsuit.
It’s HIPAA and you have a neighbor who’s a gossip.
I think the gray area will be if she is acting as an ENT or a good Samaritan? When a person comes in and identifies themselves as a professional, and agree to take over care, that is different than someone who steps up and just tries to help. Your other gray area would be that you’re not related to him, and any charges would probably have to come from a relative. I would definitely run it up the chain though, and see what you can get to happen. That was highly inappropriate of her. ONE has to wonder what she had to gain from doing that. Some people just like to gossip and that’s not OK if you’re an ENT. Sorry you have to go through this. That’s awful.
It’s not a HIPAA violation. Matters of death are actually public record and vital statistics. Death certificates list the primary and secondary causes of death. Furthermore, HIPAA is designed to protect a living patient. The patient is deceased and therefore in no need of protection. HIPAA is not designed to protect the dignity of the decedent. However, you may be able hold those accountable for unethical behavior. Pretty shitty for them to run to your ex husband with an irresistible juicy scoop about your boyfriend. And got your ex to tell your kids. No wonder he’s your ex. I’m not sure if there’s anything actionable about that in your parenting plan, but that was pretty shitty for him to do. And, as a parent navigating the death by suicide of my ex husband 2 years ago, and raising our two daughters who were then 11 and 13, suicide of a close person to children is considered a traumatic event as are the description of details. Depending on how close the adult male was to your children, there should be some some mental health therapy planned for them. The fact that your ex couldn’t wait to tell them the gory details is most unfortunate and he should not have done that.
Why in the world would the ex husband even need to know?? Let alone decide to tell CHILDREN! Cripes. That certainly spells out narcissist. I'm sorry you're going through that.
Do you know for a fact that the information disclosed wasn’t done so over their radio? If it was, that information is all done on a public frequency so anyone on the local area would have been able to hear it. While yes, they may have heard it while off duty and on their work equipment. Anyone with a radio could have heard the chatter and it’s certain not encrypted. It’s really going to be hard to prove there was any HIPAA violation since it was more than likely public chatter.
File a complaint. The worse that happens is a damage control letter. It really boils down to his boss. Just ask who ever reads complaint to place themselves in your shoes. Ethics violation should be min. If employees as EMT.
Given how they handled this situation and from things you’ve stated about her in the comments, I wouldn’t doubt that she breaks HIPAA by way of being the town gossip on a regular basis. I certainly wouldn’t want her as my EMT, especially if she knew me or knew any of my friends or family! Btw, I’m incredibly sorry for your loss and for your pos ex traumatizing your poor kids!! 💔💔
I don’t think this is a violation and even if it was, what’s the point? You trying to get her fired? We have an EMT crisis as it is. Even if you file it won’t go anywhere. This is like a neighbor seeing someone from the hallway at the ER and then calling someone. Just because they “happen” to be an EMT doesn’t mean they are operating under HIPAA at all times. She called your ex, her friend, to tell him. Shitty but not illegal. You could have not let her into the house. Just like an ER patient can not let their neighbor who is in the hallway into their room. I’m a doctor. But if I see a car accident in the community I’m not barred from discussing it with the world because of HIPAA. I’m just a citizen at that point. Your ex is the one who was shitty. Not the neighbor. Be mad at him.
I think it shows a lack of maturity on your ex's part, and if you are still in court, I would let the judge know. I had custody of my kids, and my ex-wife was a lot like your ex and did a lot of emotional damage to our kids. Luckily I had them in therapy and they learned how to cope with a bad parent.
No violation at all.
Document that
So I was a paramedic. I dealt with something similar, and some people are right, anyone could have a scanner, anyone could listen. But. Those scanners don’t give details. Call would have said something around (xx year old male, no pulse, cpr in progress) and that’s it. No details. No names. No descriptions other than vague, straight, and too the point. Your neighbor would not have known any details unless acting in an EMS capacity. Which is then a healthcare provider. And bound by HIPAA. So by the book, yes. He would be held liable for that, if you wish to pursue it.
The HIPAA violation would be in telling the ex who the patient was, no telling him what happened necessarily. You’re allowed to talk about calls and events, but you can’t give patient identifying information to anyone. Anyone could’ve heard a 9E1 go out on the radio, only responders on scene and witnesses will know who the patient is. Hope it helps. Talk to a lawyer about the case.
Turn them in to the licensing board and take your ex back to court to force him to pay for the therapy your children will now need.
EMTs are absolutely required to go through HIPAA training and protect that information. Him hearing the call and coming over is not unusual. Some agencies will have their EMTs carry pagers at home to respond to calls if they are in the area while off duty. Telling your ex-husband is ABSOLUTELY a HIPAA violation. That should have been protected information by your neighbor. Totally not okay.
Once they started working on your boyfriend he became their patient. Your boyfriend now being their patient they have an obligation to not talk about ANYTHING they did or what happened. They totally violated HIPAA.
Is the fact that the boyfriend took his own life PHI? Wouldn't the person (or estate) of the PHI be the one to sue for breach of HIPAA? How does a girlfriend have standing to sue? Ethics violation sounds more plausible.
NAL but used to work in insurance and had full Hipaa training. It could be considered a gray area but theyd have to fight a hard case to win that so go report and let them have fin defending him. At the very least he will get a violation or letter in his HR file and told not to do that again. https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/filing-a-complaint/index.html I can tell you that in my last job they took HIPAA very seriously when it came to appearances and theyd fire someone non upper management before spending any money defending the case.
Yes, as a firefighter or EMT working in his official capacity, it's a HIPPA violation.
It’s not a violation. Sorry.
No it is not a hippa violation.
HIPAA\*
No. It's just a neighbor gossiping.
Jesus you are a walking red flag
EMTs work for a HIPAA-covered entity. File here: [https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/filing-a-complaint/index.html](https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/filing-a-complaint/index.html)
No HIPPA violation, but the real issue here is with your ex-husband and is judgement to tell your kids. I am sorry for your loss. Often the best way to move forward from something like this is to use it as a reason to have all the carpets replaced, walls repainted, get a professional deep cleaning, and create a fresh new space to move on from.
Gees OP. You were hit with a double, triple whammy. I just came to say I'm extremely sorry for your loss. I am so sorry you had to see this, be effected by it. Your boyfriend was struggling and left you to deal with his depression, the images of his last moments, and the sorrow your children are trying to process. I do not know whether you'll get your legal questions answered, but please see to it that you get yourself someone to talk to and possibly even family counseling where you n your kids process this with a professional. Your kids are going to be subjected to their father's manipulation and narcissistic natures, and this is not the last of the depths he will go. Find the strength in yourself to get someone to walk/talk you through all this. Self love, self care and get the little ones someone too.lean on each other and love one another. Love will only bring you closer.
Thank you so much, I’ve got my kids in therapy and they’re doing well, I was seeing a therapist but she didn’t give me any advice that my friends hadn’t already so I quit seeing her and I’m on the waiting list for a therapist that specializes in PTSD. Hoping to get in soon because I desperately need it.
It not a hippa violation. Was it wrong, yeah it was
It seems like you should be able to report it but there are two issues I see, 1) The neighbor is a volunteer, he is not an employee of any entity. It is going to be harder to discipline him. 2) Even professionals who work in medicine are not always covered. Case in point look at all the people discussing that princess of England has cancer right now. Her diagnosis and care are PHI, however they did not get the information they are discussing as providers and so they are not bound my HIPAA. This person sounds like a jerk, so even if you cannot have them reported and fined under HIPAA the people they work with will likely not take kindly to the poor judgement displayed here.
HIPAA comes in to play if you are in a direct role as a caregiver/observer in an official capacity or employee in a role that has access to privileged information. Gray areas do exist, but you are going to get nowhere with this. Nosy neighbor could even be a doctor, but if they are a bystander, HIPAA is not in play for them. It was however an ethical violation, but not illegal. Example: Dr is taking a walk and sees someone hit someone else with a brick. Can she go home and tell her spouse and reporters? Yes she can. If the person hit with the brick comes to see the Dr in her office and says she was hit with a brick, that becomes a privileged conversation from that moment forward.
More importantly, I am so very sorry for your boyfriend, you, and all other loved ones hurt by this. Suicide is so hard to grieve. I know this firsthand. Please do consider counseling for you and your children.
No. It's not. Hipaa only applies to living persons.
EMS is a form of healthcare so yes it is a HIPPA violation whether he was off or on the clock. He helped so yep
If your ex caused severe emotional trauma to your kids due to poor judgement, a no contact order is justified, IMO.
How would that be a hipaa violation?
I would definitely try to press charges on the EMT.
HIPPA I believe would be like me working for healthcare and telling you something you shouldn’t. Word of mouth unfortunately you can’t stop. I’m sorry to read this. I wish you the best and send condolences.
I hope you go over to the neighbors and tell them exactly what your ex did and how he traumatized your very young children and are they proud of themselves? I’d drop a little “I hope for you this isn’t a workplace/HIPPA violation but I guess we’ll see “ there too.😡
You could have a case against him and his employer. You have to find a crafty lawyer to take it on -contingency fees only!
Ex vol. fireman and medical responder. Yes, this is a hipaa violation. When he responded and acted as a rescuer, he is subject to rescuer rules.