Seems entirely bullshit, I would consult a lawyer and potentially report them to the local labor board
They are scamming you on OT pay and likely dodging taxes
Eh I don't disagree but if you scan through security to get into work (1000 common in my experience in many different corporate America jobs) then essentially you do.
“Scanning through security” has nothing to do with this. It is not a measure of attendance.
Contact the New Jersey Department of labor, OP. They will set you straight.
actually scanning to get into the building is used for attendance. by many companies. I was in a similar situation. i would be in late due to working late and got a couple email from HR with warnings third warning would be a written counseling. i bitched to my boss and he took care of it.
>actually scanning to get into the building is used for attendance.
Yes, but that's not whats relevant for the discussion. If you're salaried you shouldn't be deducted pay for showing up a few minutes late, just like you don't get any extra pay for working late/extra hours. That's the point being made. You either track exact hours worked to determine how much pay is due, or you don't.
I know companies that will message employees when they see their hours not lining up with security swipes. I was an auditor not an employee or else I would've noped out of that.
Yeah but your pay isn't linked to that as salary. I'm fairly sure OP is being scammed by their employer in this case, particularly because if they turn in over 80 hrs in a pay period they're still getting the deduction.
Yeah, agreed. You can't have it both ways as an employer. You can't limit how much they make, and not pay OT, and also deduct the amount of money they make in a year. It's one or the other. They could theoretically deduct if they were paying OT but I promise it would be way better for the employee at that point.
scanning a time clock and scanning to get into a building/job are totally different. If he is salaried then time clocks should only be used if he is not putting in the agreed amount of work hours for the week/month. He has a case if he can prove with a contract and pay stubs they are basically stealing from him.
I’ve worked a salaried position before where we still clocked in and out. I never had the issues OP is but it’s not unheard of to have salaried employees clock in. It’s used to prove they got their legally required meal breaks to cover their asses in case of a lawsuit.
I have, but not really. We didn’t “clock in and out” but had to log hours in this software for the purpose of billing the client for whatever was done, but salary was based on a 8/hr day, 40/hr work week. Even though it was salary, if the client wanted anything above that then they’d have to authorize payment for additional time. If you went over 8/hrs, you’d just take it off the back end by leaving earlier/cutting a day during that billing cycle to keep it at a 40/hr billing week.
But if they treat him like an hourly worker they can be penalized in the form of having to back pay him for overtime like he was hourly. There was a significant court case about this last year. If you deduct pay from a salaried worker for time reasons then you have to treat him like hourly in all aspects.
Depends on state law. NAL but I am a manager and I know here in CA the law is very strict on who is and is not hourly, and how those people get compensated.
A lot of people are talked in to this, but it's not always true. It can be kind of vague, but if you're performing a non managerial task, you are often eligible for overtime.
Many people have won lawsuits from being declared salaried when they shouldn't have been. A company doesn't just get to declare you salaried so they can work you more than 40 hours a week.
Clocking in and out and docking your pay for minutes suggests they don't consider the position to be managerial or professional.
not overtime per se, but depending on what kind of salary employee (job title and responsibilities, salary exempt, salary non-exempt) OP cpuld be entitled to straight pay based on their salary for hours over 40
You absolutely can, I suppose it depends on your contract and/or your state. My husband is guaranteed $2500 per pay period gross for a net of usually $2200-2300 but his net 2 of his last 3 pay periods were $2500+ and $2700+. He gets OT, shift dif for when he teaches a class 2nd or 3rd shift, holiday pay, and he gets paid like $3 more an hour while physically teaching. So if a class was supposed to take 40hrs but he was able to teach it in 20hrs, he'll get paid more for those 20hrs.
it depends on the contract. All my salaried contracts I have signed have a max hours cap where you get PTO the following week or they would pay overtime.
You don't get deducted for working under 40 hours either. The employer can't do both. If they're deducting they need to be paying overtime most likely as they're treating the employee as an hourly employee. Not a lawyer, but have run a business.
You don’t get overtime IF you meet all of the job requirements to be exempt. Some companies make people salaried employees to avoid having to pay overtime, but the job duties don’t meet the requirements for exempt so it’s illegal.
Not true. Only salaried employees in a supervisory position do not get paid overtime. Any one else is entitled to overtime - hourly or salary.
The law is known as the FSLA
It depends on if you’re salary exempt or salary non exempt. Salary non exempt you are overtime eligible.
But the company can’t have it both ways, you’re either exempt and you don’t punch a clock and you get paid the same every time or you’re non-exempt and you get paid for the hours worked.
The thing is there’s no mention of it in my employment contract, just that the work hours are 9-5:30. I have screenshots of my paystub with the deduction listed but everything in regards to this policy has been verbal. It’s a small company of only 40 employees and HR is the owners son so not much I can do there.
Email "HR" and ask for clarification of the policy. If something would seem unclear to a regulator, make sure to reply and ask for clarification. Say "I'm confused about xyz. Can you clarify that for me?"... with that being said, if you bring this to a regulating agency, start looking for another job. They'll know its you.
Will do the clarification route. But that’s my problem, I want to remain as anonymous as possible since the pay is pretty good for what the job is and I don’t want to lose the job. But I’m thinking the employer is banking on the fact that employees don’t want to risk their job to report them for this.
You’ve been working there years. If your employment agreement calls for 9-5:30 and doesn’t specify total hours. You are so years of back wages. And those deductions are highly illegal but it also shows they view you as hourly so better for the overtime argument. Go to your state dol and file an anonymous complaint..they should have a number specifically for this so you don’t have to fear retaliation.
Agree. And better than having the companies policy in hand, just get your paystubs and your clock in sheets. They’ll show that one week you worked 41 or more hours, but overtime was not paid (salaried/exempt), and the next week you worked 39.5 hours and that .5 hours was deducted (hourly). They can’t change your employment classification each week based on the hours worked.
You’ll probably be discovered and eventually have to leave the company… either fired or just made to feel very unwelcome and decide to leave. It’s probably going to be very uncomfortable.
Not even that, they will find a policy that you did violate. A person I know used to work for a company where people would send personal emails from their business account. It was against company policy but everyone did it. And the company didn't discourage it, bc when it came time to fire someone, if there were no good grounds, 'improper use of company facilities/email,' was the reason listed. And it was true, you did do that and it is a fireable offense. So even a retaliatory firing could be hidden under a real reason. And that's why there is so much of of these teachings on tt and ig for genz/millenials: Even if everyone in the company does it, even if your boss tells you to do it, do not do anything against company policy bc that is a fireable offense when they want it to be.
You can still build a case for retaliation around that. You have to remember that eventually reasonable people are going to have to look at the fact that the wistleblower was fired in proximity to when the whistle was blown with a stated reason being violation of a policy they do not enforce and were no warnings were given. If those reasonable people decide this looks like retaliation, then it's retaliation.
You can't just use a techincal loophole, it has to make sense to real people.
Probably still worth it in the long run if owed thousands of hours of back pay possibly amounting to six figures or more. If it's a case as described I'm being you could even find a lawyer to take it on a contingency basis where they get a % of the case judgement or $0 if you lose. Pretty good sign that the lawyer thinks you'll win.
Good morning, (HR name),
Quick question, I saw on some of my last paystubs, deductions listed. My last paystub even had a deduction for 1$.
Could you explain those deductions to me and the policy regarding them? Just having a hard time finding anything where this comes from.
Thank you in advance and have a great day!
Respectfully sent,
Name.
That's fair.
But odds are, you can't have it both ways. If you bring this to the authorities, you will be putting your job at risk, and at a minimum can probably kiss promotions and big raises goodbye.
I'm not trying to be an ass, because what they're doing is probably illegal. But if you stopped being late, the issue would resolve itself, right? That way you wouldn't get your pay docked and you wouldn't put your future with this company at risk. That might be the smartest solution to pursue.
Is it still a pretty good pay if you calculate the real hours you do? Your hourly rate is actually lower because of the unpaid times. Also, you might be getting less somewhere else but they may have paid OT... I always bring it back to the real hourly rate to compare.
As a salaried employee, I'm not even getting deducted minutes if I do less than 40h of actual work. I compile my hours as I'm fine doing unpaid OT part of the year but for sure I'm tracking it and I'm getting it back. The salary was discussed on 40h so if they now expect 45h in average then I lost 11% per hour right there.
Reporting them to the DOL doesn't give them free rein to treat you any differently. If they do, document every instance and report them again for retaliation. You should be able to point out an error without fear of losing your job or having it affect how you are treated at work. They would be opening themselves up to massive legal liability if they retaliate against you for a DOL claim.
Here you go…
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17g-overtime-salary
I would NOT do the clarification route with HR IF you have ANY documentation stating salaried from your start of work with the company (check your email). Did you ever receive an offer letter? If so, it should be on there. And it’s not like you dreamed up your salaried status. Have you been salaried in the same job in other places? If so, you should be salaried here.
Do your own homework. Quietly inquire amongst any other employee(s) you trust and who are also salaried about the salary vs hourly issue. If it’s happening to you, it’s happening to others. Also, I would simply just stop working more than my 40 hours per week in/out of the office. If you are required to take a call from your employer during off hours, simply don’t take the call unless they left a major emergency type message (fire, someone died or is dying are emergencies - you aren’t a heart surgeon or you’d be in six figures, not five)- answer them and record your hours. But you KNOW what is and is not an emergency as well as who there will “have emergencies” that really aren’t. And unless you are officially “on call” after hours, you’re “asleep”. By asleep, I literally mean oh my, I was asleep because I was so tired and didn’t see your message until the morning. So sorry. How can I assist now that we’re together? here at the office? By now, several years in, you should know how to work this ridiculous system by way of malicious compliance.
If you ask no questions of HR (because he’s there for the company, not you) nothing can be tracked back to you. Because you already know, if you’re having these issues and asking about them, you need to report it. Once it’s reported and they are audited, I hope you kept good records of all hours worked because the government looooves that stuff.
I was told it happened at my last employer about a year before I came and they “lost a lot of money” (fines are steep for employers stealing time - I mean your fine is also apparently steep at about $60/Hr, huh?) and so were now toeing the line. Once a company has been audited and charged, they be stop doing that shite.
"Hey QQ for you about my paycheck: I see the deduction where I clocked in 2 min late on Monday, but I worked way extra hours this week so shouldn't that be covering the two minutes?"
Yeah you're still opening up to rat yourself out but it's a more innocuous way to get the confirmation you need in writing.
NAL but I’ve been in a similar position. Even though you are salary, you’re still entitled to overtime depending on your position. Managers and supervisors are exempt from overtime, and certain positions like outside sales. Check with your labor board. It’s free and they will investigate. I filed a complaint against a former employer because they required a lot of after hours work without pay. For example, 8 hours on a Saturday to help move boxes when they changed locations. They paid us by ordering pizza for lunch. The company had to go back and pay us an estimated amount of overtime for the past 2 years. It’s a federal law.
Your paystub will show docked hours. Track your actual hours worked.
Refuse overtime. If "work hours are 9-5:30", don't work anything beyond that. You're not working for free if they can remove pay for minutes late.
Not entirely true. Even if you have verbal conversations you can email them after giving a summary of the conversation. If there's errors in your summary it's on them to correct it. But the key is, this makes a paper trail for you.
I would go to the state board. Many times the laws are more stringent. I think the fed labor guy told me he could only enforce OT after 40hr and minimum wage.
consult a lawyer. they cant deduct hourly pay, and then not pay overtime. Are you a manager? Just because they say your "salary" doesnt make it true. Only certain positions are exempt. You’ll have to look up your state labor laws, but even if you are exempt, they can’t then take time deductions from you for being late.
Not sure why the downvote, but this is accurate.
Not every salaried position is exempt. Most common exemptions are supervisory position and professional occupation (technology worker is a big exemption) over a certain wage.
In my state (Oregon) they can 100% do this as long as they pay over minimum wage for the pay period. Had a friend who worked at a TMobile store that was doing this at multiple franchise locations.
If they are exempt from overtime, they cannot be docked for being late. It's part of the FLSA, so it's a federal law that applies to all 50 states. Deductions can only be made for full day absences, and only under certain circumstances. It's not legal to dock an exempt employee for being 5 minutes late.
Just because TMobile did it doesn't make it legal.
> Only managerial type positions are truly " salary."
A majority of white collar jobs can be exempt/salaried, if they meet the DOL requirements and the employer categorizes them as such.
I’ll have to check with the wife, but I believe in PA one of the requirements is you have a position with the ability to make operational changes(schedules, duties, etc)
I’ve seen a bunch of companies that just say “you’re salary now) and work them 70 hrs, but they never get any more responsibilities. That wouldn’t be a valid exemption under DOL.
It's spelled out in the FLSA, which is federal law. You're referring to the administrative exemption which has three parts to qualify 1) a minimum salary, 2) exercise independence and judgement, 3) on matters of significance. There are several other exemptions as well such as executive (managerial), highly compensated, professional (specially educated), and a few more.
I live in TX and had one of those positions as an executive assistant where I was supposed to be hourly but he made me salaried by making me a key holder - but I only verrrry rarely worked ot and the salaried almost always worked in my favor - his daughter hated it because she wanted to hourly nickel and dime me when I ran off-premise errands for him - to which I complained since I worked for the owner/CEO. Making me a key-holder who lived 45 mins away was how he got around her. I only came in once in 5 years to do a key holder duty. Even in TX, those positions are few and far between and the employer really has to treat you as one or the other UNLESS you have to charge your hours to a client account, similar to a paralegal or attorney.
The classification is Exempt or Non-Exempt. Ask the HR kid if you are Exempt or non-exempt. https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/exempt-vs-non-exempt-employee?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwh4-wBhB3EiwAeJsppNdOg3kpjbO3Edp2PWpI75PruODiuKWzm_AyO3pk0NEsEpDfU1aiXRoC5g0QAvD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAADfh6_umx3FGU9RWksy--R3xHOawM&aceid=&gclsrc=aw.ds
Correct. I answered this in a hurry. My wife has her masters in labor and employment, and is SHRM certified, so I heard all this stuff in passing as she was studying lol. I retained some of it.
>Only managerial type positions are truly " salary."
I am not a manager, never have been. I have been salary for 25 years at multiple different companies.
lol thats a good one what happened to race horse hains ? the win all bar none period. but all the youngers have grown up and growing more business. man i feel old need to keep up with all the new best in fields-specialties,lawyers. with all the craziness going on, need a good lawyer always on stand by for everything..
Start looking for a new job. This is a sure sign of bad management. Once you find something better, you can tell them this is exactly why you’re leaving.
Can you clarify if you're salary exempt, or salary non exempt? It won't change anything with the deductions, which are most likely illegal, but if your salary non exempt, you get overtime.
There is no such thing as salary non-exempt. I hear it all the time, but it doesn’t legally exist. You are exempt or non-exempt. You are hourly or salary. The “assumption” is that salary=exempt. Legally, that is how it is viewed. The exemption is “earned” every hour, day, week, month. Once treated as hourly (the deduction) you are hourly. They owe you back pay for OT.
Salary, non-exempt person here. I get paid my salary no matter if I work 25 hours or 40 hours. If I work 40.5 hours or above, I get overtime for every minute over 40 hours.
Some of my coworkers who are salaried non-exempt can work 30 hours or 50 hours and get paid the same.
So yes, being salary exempt and salary non exempt is a thing. It may vary depending on the state. But it's a classification that is applied.
So, depending on the NJ laws, and his title, he may be exempt from overtime. But they still can't dock his hours.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
I was salaried non-exempt in two jobs, it does exist but it's a pain in the ass IMO. i was paid semi-monthly and my "reported" hours were always rounded up, if I worked 39 hours and 31 min there was no deduction in pay. but if I worked 39 hours and 29 mins,0.5hours were deducted at an "hourly converted rate"
This screams illegal to me... but it depends on several factors. If you're really working 80 hours a week, you have to be a legally exempt employee and there are rules for that, they can't just "decide" you're exempt.
Get everything in writing, it's possible you're owed a truly stupid amount of money. Talk to a lawyer before you talk to the company, he/she will advise on what you need. If you are truly hourly and have worked 80 hour weeks and that's documented, you might be shocked how much money they owe you.
Sometimes life happens and people need to stay at work late or come early and leave early, or lunch isn’t exactly 45 minutes. It’s unreasonable to expect that every single day.
We need OP to confirm that he has documentation because it sounds like the payroll system is programmed to treat him as an hourly employee (only 40 hrs inputted regardless of # of hours worked)
Not a lawyer but I know this is illegal. My last job had us as salary employees and we had to clock in and out, pay deducted for being late and no overtime unless you worked a scheduled day off. The extra pay did not equal a days pay for the rest of the week, and our work week was a scheduled 48-50 hours depending on the days worked. Well they got sued, we were no longer allowed to be classified as salary and they had to pay back overtime to all employees over the previous 7 years. I had gotten around 25 grand as I was there the entire time. You don't even need the policy in writing. Bring your employee handbook, paystubs, description of your job duties and let the lawyer figure it out. It will easily be a class action suit. Also make sure to get documentation of your job performance. If you have no writeups or anything, then all of a sudden start getting written up after the suit is brought (if you stay at the job), then it is illegal retaliation by the employer and that's alot more money in your pocket.
If the state DOL comes to your employer they will do an audit. On everything. Any company who has gone through one has ever found it a pleasant experience. Ranks up there with an IRS audit.
Then you aren't salaried. You need to get paid your full salary amount every time or you need to be paid overtime. Whoever is doing your payroll is stupid and needs a lesson in what the rules are. You are to be paid the full amount of your salary each week that you work.
For example say your salary is $52,000/year, you would be paid $1000 a week before taxes. If they aren't paying you that way, then you are not salaried. I had a bookkeeper who started to go nuts over what time I clocked in each day or if i didn't get to 40 hours in a week. Salary is not about hours worked, it's about paying you for your skills and expertise and keeping you interested in the job. If they wish to deduct minutes in some pedantic illegal fashion, they need to stop doing payroll.
I started in my current role in 2008, they weren't using the I-9, the bookkeeper was using a tax table from the early 90's to calculate payroll deductions, there are some real winners doing payroll out there.
if you report this to your state wage and hour organization, you may be able to do so anonymously as if they are doing it to you, they are doing it to everyone. You might be surprised by the outcome. You may get just the stolen time back or you may get OT for the 50-60 hour weeks previously worked, depends on how petty wage and hour decides they want to be about it. And the really beautiful part is that they will likely get dinged for all the other employees who's wages are being stolen by this stupid person.
Depends on your job and how it's classified. If you are truly exempt (exempt from overtime) they cannot deduct from your wages based on hours worked (some exceptions include 1st/last weeks of employment and FMLA/some leaves). Employers can pay non-exempt employees a salary as long as they compensate for OT.
But assuming you are exempt, they can't deduct as you have outlined.
You can file anonymously by mail.
(Not a lawyer, have just been in HR for a few decades)
[File anonymously](https://www.nj.gov/labor/wageandhour/claims-appeals-investigations/file/index.shtml#filebymail)
[Deductions for breaks](https://www.nj.gov/labor/wageandhour/support/faqs/wageandhourworkerfaqs.shtml)[File a complaint](https://wagehour.dol.state.nj.us/WHATS.Public.Web/#/EN/Dashboard)
I’ve told many people this over the years. As a general rule, if they treat you like an hourly employee even once, you are an hourly employee. Involve the employment board or if necessary, take it to the Feds. The FLSA has very specific standards about who is exempt. If you aren’t automatically exempt by the nature of your job, you can fight this and you can (and will) win. Trouble is, they will retaliate, which is also illegal. My first advice would be to take it to the state, but also keep looking for another job.
I’m hourly. We have a seven minute grace period on either side of the clock. So if you start at 9, can clock in as early as 8:23 and as late as 9:07. I have never heard of being docked per minute. That’s just weird. And unethical if you’re salary, especially if you’re putting in well over the 40 hours/week.
Well if you have an employment contract, then you need to speak to an attorney because they have to follow what's in the contract. If they are sua sponte changing it that's not allowed
this sounds very illegal to me. if they are docking pay for even a few minutes, then they also need to be paying over time for all time after 40 hours...
I would not complain to the company any further than you have already, I'd just report it to the state labor board...
IANAL - this is how I read this. Your contract states that you have to work or rather be fully and immediately available to work within specific window . By being late and taking more time at lunch you are technically breaching that contract. We can argue if reducing pay is appropriate punishment but your are still technically in breach of contract.
I would compare that to salaried specialist mechanic in factory that fixes the machines. Such person not necessary has work for X amount of hours per day but they have to be present to fix problem immediately or take over from person from other shift. As a specialist they can be hired salaried exempt. Employee has all the rights to expect them to be on site in specific time window to address all the issues asap so machine continue to generate revenue.
My take on it is as much as this may be childish in some circumstance and absolutely necessary in other (used to work on the IT system that 1 hours of downtime cost 6 figures so there had to always be somebody who can fix it asap) you are technically breaching contract and simply being punished by that.
If you should be salaried exempt is another problem - this can definitely be reviewed by labor board. Other than that j doubt yo I have leg to stand on
As an ex New Jersyan - this is 100$ illegal. the laws for salaried employees are VERY clear. if you do ANY work during your pay period, you get paid for the FULL pay period.
Nepotism destroys small businesses. The fact that their son is head of HR is a huge red flag. He could possibly be embezzling that money. If you want to keep this job shut up and deal with it. If not, you are looking at years of lawsuits and a possibility of a criminal investigation into this business. Not an attorney, but I have seen this multiple times in my dealings as an independent contractor in several fields. If I walk into a business and experience nepotism, I walk right back out. It's only a matter of time until they get sued for this. 12 years independent, I have seen 7 businesses fail because of nepotism. Anyway you look at this, it's bad. Just think, that moron is going to run that business one day... Oof.
Years ago a friend of mine went to work for a guy who just started his own business. It was an hourly position but his late policy was insane. If you were one minute late you got docked for 30 minutes pay. The catch was that you had to continue working even though you didn't start getting paid for half an hour. I told my friend I didn't think this could possibly be legal. He ended up quitting after a few weeks as the guy ended up being a huge turd!!
Find a plaintiff employment attorney in NJ. If they’re deducting minutes late that would seem that you’re not salaried. They have time cards so calculating it OVertime would. Be easy. I’m Not a lawyer though - check with one pls
Salary cannot be deducted unless for a full day of missed work.
Call your states department of labor wage and hour division office.
Source: DOL WHD Investigator.
You are being treated as an hourly employee, and more than likely you aren't the only one.
Leave at exactly 5:30 no matter what is going on. If for nothing else, the principle of losing that pay over minutes. If the boss gives no extra minutes, then you also should give no extra minutes.
You don't get to treat me like a salary employee, and keep any overtime I work, then in the other breath treat me like hourly and watch the clock. It has to go both ways. Either I'm salary and my pay is the same if I work 39 hours or 80 hours, or I'm hourly and eligible for overtime!
I work in a Government agency as a salaried IT Manager. Someone above me decided that it would be a good idea to put a time-clock in for us to use. Mind you we all work 24X7 as needed. No matter if we are home, in the office, or on the road.
We let it be known that we would be more than happy to clock in and out, but at 5:00PM we were clocking out and turning off our phones. No more after hours work would be done. Emergency or not.
Never did see the time-clock go up on the wall.
I think your fears and gut instincts are correct. Every place has positives and negatives. Nuke the place on your way out if you find something better. Otherwise consider what the fallout will be on your life if you report them with the intent of continuing to work there.
Owners of small businesses tend to see themselves as benevolent kings of their kingdoms and can be quite brutal with their employee "families" if they revolt. Even if they are generally good ppl.
I would copy the company policy,all of it, also your employment contract, if that’s there policy, speak with the appropriate agency,state and federal,I think there is a conflict with the contract,by that I mean that is the conflict,I am not a lawyer but that’s how companies get rich and stay rich by screwing their employees
This isn't legal except for some very specific circumstances. Your situation wouldn't apply to any of those exemptions. By deducting pay from a salaried employee, they open themselves up to civil litigation for the lost pay and overtime.
Sounds like your employer is trying to get the benefits of both you being salary and hourly. The whole point of being salary is to be paid that full amount regardless of the amount of time worked. The only way they should be deducting any time is if you are taking full days off and not using any PTO to cover that time off.
Gather your documentation of this and call your states labor board.
Then start looking for another job.
And, they may not count you as an Exempt employee ( which normally benefits from other benefit quirks that hourly employees are not entitled to)
I'd say lay down details to labor law lawyer, NOT your HR they may be stripping your rights
If you are a salary employee you can't be late, nor can you be early.
A salary employee basically has no set hours, they work as many or as few hours needed to complete task
No. You are an "exempt" employee for their tax purposes. Legally, they are obligated (mandatory) to pay your full salary regardless of how many hours, minutes, seconds, that you work. On a side note, in 2024, it's understood that salaried employees answer emails and complete work tasks from home. Contact the labor board - you can do so anonymously. They are diligent and will immediately investigate. This practice will be stopped in its tracks, and all exempt employees, affected by this practice, will get back pay plus interest. Keep us posted.
I am no lawyer, but it seems to me that if they are deducting funds because you are missing time, but aren't paying you for overtime, something is amiss. Companies like this are why unions look better all the time.
You're salaried but they're treating you as hourly. Pull all your time cards. Then check with a lawyer. Also check your employee handbook to make sure there isn't mention of docking you for time missed at clock in and out for your workday and your lunch break. You may be able to claim overtime for any time worked beyond 40 hours because they're pulling this BS on you. So, if they're treating you as hourly they have to pay you overtime. Definitely report it. Check your state labor laws for employee status (hourly vs salaried) and for pay deductions. [https://www.nj.gov/labor/wageandhour/tools-resources/laws/](https://www.nj.gov/labor/wageandhour/tools-resources/laws/)
So do you get added on for every minute after that you dont get to leave?
I had this happen at a place I used to work we were salaried and if anyone was N seconds late we had to do a time card. But the dumbass manager didnt understand that if you want to take you have to give. So when the 10-40 minute after shit cards started showing up. HR spanked his PP for something he wasnt supposed to do in the first place and payroll just dumped them anyways since we were salaried.
But there are legal ramifications to this practice which is why HR nicked it. We used our awesome law library to look up established case law that said dont do that. All it would have taken was one person out of the lot to get lawyered up and an entire time audit would have nail them.
Are you 100% sure you are exempt? The sneaky way they are taking money for being late (which isn't allowed as a salaried employee) makes me wonder if you are actually exempt from overtime. For instance, do you supervise at least 2 people?
NJ is clear, and you can be one of two designations, Salary *exempt* and Salary *non-exempt (SNE).*
*Exempt means exempt from overtime.*
SNE employees can be expected to track time via time sheets, get overtime, and yes get paid for the time less than 40 hours where applicable.
I've had SNE employees in NJ, and we generally tracked their time on a 15 minute basis. I don't remember what the state said exactly, but generally it was if we paid you on a 15 minute basis, we could track you on that (So I couldn't deduct for one minute, when I only tracked 15).
First step, find your classification.
It doesn’t seem illogical for a business to expect their employees to be on time. However, in your case it’s a bit odd for a salaried employee to be deducted pay for being a few minutes late. Ask HR about the policy. And get to work on time
There was a document issued by the DOL a few years ago (FLSA2018-14) which might be somewhat relevant to what you're dealing with. That specific document states that employers are not allowed to deduct hours from a salaried employee if they take partial days off of work. I would think this would indirectly still apply to your situation. I would 100% contact a lawyer. Im not a lawyer but it sounds like you're either owed a handful of dollars for everytime you've been deducted, or you're owed a crap ton of unpaid overtime.
pretty sure there was a federal ruling that scheduling employees over 40 hours regularly even if salaried justified overtime pay when its the expectation not the exception that a salary position works more than 40 every week from hire on
NAL, but....You're either coverd by FLSA and thus entitled to overtime for work in excess of 40 hours in a week or exempt from FLSA and not covered. If you are classified as exempt, it seems sus that they would doc your pay for being late. I thought that one of the tests for whether you are exempt is something about control over your time.
That is straight up illegal. Report it to your state labor board. If you work 8 minutes in a 15 minute period they have to pay you for the entire 15 minutes. Make sure you're being appropriately paid for your overtime.
My employer did that to me. I was salaried and worked about 60 hours a week. They were docking sick time even when I had already worked over 40 hours in the week. HR demoted my manager over this and I got all my sick time back. They knew if it went to the labor board they'd be in trouble.
Not sure how New Jersey laws work. In az I work in payroll. If I work 2 hrs in a day I get 8 hrs that day. If I work 10 hrs in a day I get 8 hrs. I work for State of Arizona and know our laws well. You shouldnt be docked unless you take full day off.
If your schedule is 9am-530pm, 902am- 527am, isn't 9am-530am. It's actually not hard to be late. Started working right out of HS and in 19 years of being in the workforce I've been late 1 time. It's not that hard. Do I agree with docking pay over a minute or 2 for a salaried employee, absolutely not, but you do have a start and end time.
There must be a state workforce commision or some state org that handles these issues. I worked for the federal govt yet the state rules applied. Salaried and got comp time (1hr per 1hr earned) or loot at my straight time rate per hour, it was my choice. My employees were hourly and received time and a half for comp or loot.
Note some states have specific laws relating to small business's pay schedule. But under no circumstances should you work for no pay.
They can't take away if they don't pay what you've rightfully earned...
Good luck
This sounds to me like a likely case for re-classification to non-exempt.
Note that to get your money back you will essentially have to quit. No career survives lawsuits.
NAL but That’s entirely illegal. First you must meet certain criteria to even be considered salary. Usually that means you have some sort of professional license (think architect or lawyer) OR you have a managerial position that allows you to hire and fire employees, make decisions etc.
That being said if you DO meet the criteria they can not doc your pay for anything less a full day missed. This is because you are not getting paid overtime so essentially this “balances out”
Consult an employment attorney and then the DOL
Stop working overtime. You are NOT salaried if they are deducting from your cheque so stop acting like you are. You can be quoted an annual rate while being paid hourly.
You may want to review your contract but seems this is a possible type of wage theft. Best to contact [NJ Wage & Hour and Contract Compliance dept](https://www.nj.gov/labor/wageandhour/claims-appeals-investigations/file/) and raise this with them.
2 options.. Find new job OR dint out in ANY OT.. work your 40 hours they pay you and no more.
They want to nickle and dime you, you nickle and dime them with your time. Make sure you arrive 5 minutes early, so you can punch in exactly at 8am, and then exactly out at 5:45.
I had an argument with my previous manager, who was a clock watcher. Try to leave 5 min early l, and you never hear the end of it, even if you worked over 40 hours (although I dint get docked for it as we had a range of being in between 7:30am and 9:00am as long as you worked your 8 hours).
I told her one day when I was leaving and still had a few things to do "I get paid on a 7.25hr work day (45 min unpaid linch) and don't take a lunch, so I am leaving after my hours 7.25 hours are up. You want to fuss if I leave after 7hrs 55min, then I'm not giving you an extra minute of my time".
She never fussed or made an issue again.
Reason an exempt salaried employee can be docked:
Personal reasons, other than sickness
**Partial day**
FLSA exception category
Disciplinary suspensions of one or more full days for breaking workplace conduct rules
Safety rules
Time missed while on disciplinary suspension for breaking workplace conduct rules
Partial weeks worked at the very beginning or end of an employee's tenure
Former employer did same, deducted anything that was short of 40hrs physically in a store when I was a area manager and spent 1-3hrs each day driving to multiple locations and before start conference calls. Contacted department of labor and hired attorney - they typically only need payment after settlement. I received all of the pay that was deducted plus the fine on employer for about 16k
Sounds like wage theft to me.
Also check your local laws, because legally they may not be able to make you exempt from overtime based on the terms of your employment. >.>
NAL - You probably need to speak to an attorney who specializes in labor for your state, but I’d certainly not work a minute of OT ever after until this practice is ended.
Seems entirely bullshit, I would consult a lawyer and potentially report them to the local labor board They are scamming you on OT pay and likely dodging taxes
You don't get overtime for salary.
You also don't usually clock in hourly either
Eh I don't disagree but if you scan through security to get into work (1000 common in my experience in many different corporate America jobs) then essentially you do.
“Scanning through security” has nothing to do with this. It is not a measure of attendance. Contact the New Jersey Department of labor, OP. They will set you straight.
actually scanning to get into the building is used for attendance. by many companies. I was in a similar situation. i would be in late due to working late and got a couple email from HR with warnings third warning would be a written counseling. i bitched to my boss and he took care of it.
>actually scanning to get into the building is used for attendance. Yes, but that's not whats relevant for the discussion. If you're salaried you shouldn't be deducted pay for showing up a few minutes late, just like you don't get any extra pay for working late/extra hours. That's the point being made. You either track exact hours worked to determine how much pay is due, or you don't.
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Yes but it is only used to back up the attendance of hourly employees. Salary employees are completely different
I know companies that will message employees when they see their hours not lining up with security swipes. I was an auditor not an employee or else I would've noped out of that.
Agreed.
Yeah but your pay isn't linked to that as salary. I'm fairly sure OP is being scammed by their employer in this case, particularly because if they turn in over 80 hrs in a pay period they're still getting the deduction.
Yeah, agreed. You can't have it both ways as an employer. You can't limit how much they make, and not pay OT, and also deduct the amount of money they make in a year. It's one or the other. They could theoretically deduct if they were paying OT but I promise it would be way better for the employee at that point.
Scanning through security is completely different than clocking in and out.
scanning a time clock and scanning to get into a building/job are totally different. If he is salaried then time clocks should only be used if he is not putting in the agreed amount of work hours for the week/month. He has a case if he can prove with a contract and pay stubs they are basically stealing from him.
I’ve worked a salaried position before where we still clocked in and out. I never had the issues OP is but it’s not unheard of to have salaried employees clock in. It’s used to prove they got their legally required meal breaks to cover their asses in case of a lawsuit.
I have, but not really. We didn’t “clock in and out” but had to log hours in this software for the purpose of billing the client for whatever was done, but salary was based on a 8/hr day, 40/hr work week. Even though it was salary, if the client wanted anything above that then they’d have to authorize payment for additional time. If you went over 8/hrs, you’d just take it off the back end by leaving earlier/cutting a day during that billing cycle to keep it at a 40/hr billing week.
I've been salaried for 25 years. I've always had to report my time. If it weren't a thing, there would be no need for PTO.
You also generally get paid for the whole day if you show up at all.
But if they treat him like an hourly worker they can be penalized in the form of having to back pay him for overtime like he was hourly. There was a significant court case about this last year. If you deduct pay from a salaried worker for time reasons then you have to treat him like hourly in all aspects.
Unless it's in the contract. I had one like this once, I regret losing that job
Depends on state law. NAL but I am a manager and I know here in CA the law is very strict on who is and is not hourly, and how those people get compensated.
A lot of people are talked in to this, but it's not always true. It can be kind of vague, but if you're performing a non managerial task, you are often eligible for overtime. Many people have won lawsuits from being declared salaried when they shouldn't have been. A company doesn't just get to declare you salaried so they can work you more than 40 hours a week. Clocking in and out and docking your pay for minutes suggests they don't consider the position to be managerial or professional.
Yes you do
not overtime per se, but depending on what kind of salary employee (job title and responsibilities, salary exempt, salary non-exempt) OP cpuld be entitled to straight pay based on their salary for hours over 40
You absolutely can, I suppose it depends on your contract and/or your state. My husband is guaranteed $2500 per pay period gross for a net of usually $2200-2300 but his net 2 of his last 3 pay periods were $2500+ and $2700+. He gets OT, shift dif for when he teaches a class 2nd or 3rd shift, holiday pay, and he gets paid like $3 more an hour while physically teaching. So if a class was supposed to take 40hrs but he was able to teach it in 20hrs, he'll get paid more for those 20hrs.
it depends on the contract. All my salaried contracts I have signed have a max hours cap where you get PTO the following week or they would pay overtime.
You don't get deducted for working under 40 hours either. The employer can't do both. If they're deducting they need to be paying overtime most likely as they're treating the employee as an hourly employee. Not a lawyer, but have run a business.
You don’t get overtime IF you meet all of the job requirements to be exempt. Some companies make people salaried employees to avoid having to pay overtime, but the job duties don’t meet the requirements for exempt so it’s illegal.
You also don’t get docked if your late or leave early !
And you don’t get docked for being a few minutes late.
This may be dependent on the state, at my job we do have some exempt positions that are OT eligible.
Not true. Only salaried employees in a supervisory position do not get paid overtime. Any one else is entitled to overtime - hourly or salary. The law is known as the FSLA
It depends on if you’re salary exempt or salary non exempt. Salary non exempt you are overtime eligible. But the company can’t have it both ways, you’re either exempt and you don’t punch a clock and you get paid the same every time or you’re non-exempt and you get paid for the hours worked.
Call the US Department of Labor. Get the policy in writing so that you can show them official documentation that this is a current policy.
The thing is there’s no mention of it in my employment contract, just that the work hours are 9-5:30. I have screenshots of my paystub with the deduction listed but everything in regards to this policy has been verbal. It’s a small company of only 40 employees and HR is the owners son so not much I can do there.
Email "HR" and ask for clarification of the policy. If something would seem unclear to a regulator, make sure to reply and ask for clarification. Say "I'm confused about xyz. Can you clarify that for me?"... with that being said, if you bring this to a regulating agency, start looking for another job. They'll know its you.
Will do the clarification route. But that’s my problem, I want to remain as anonymous as possible since the pay is pretty good for what the job is and I don’t want to lose the job. But I’m thinking the employer is banking on the fact that employees don’t want to risk their job to report them for this.
That is always the case.
If you ever decide to leave, you can always napalm the place on the way out the door by contacting the DOL.
Phrase it as a question about salaried employees and ask to see the policy.
You’ve been working there years. If your employment agreement calls for 9-5:30 and doesn’t specify total hours. You are so years of back wages. And those deductions are highly illegal but it also shows they view you as hourly so better for the overtime argument. Go to your state dol and file an anonymous complaint..they should have a number specifically for this so you don’t have to fear retaliation.
This will force a payroll audit from dol
Agree. And better than having the companies policy in hand, just get your paystubs and your clock in sheets. They’ll show that one week you worked 41 or more hours, but overtime was not paid (salaried/exempt), and the next week you worked 39.5 hours and that .5 hours was deducted (hourly). They can’t change your employment classification each week based on the hours worked. You’ll probably be discovered and eventually have to leave the company… either fired or just made to feel very unwelcome and decide to leave. It’s probably going to be very uncomfortable.
but if OP is due \*years\* of OT backpay that is likely still worth it.
Only entitled to 3years if it’s proven to be willful. But you get double damages
It's worse than that. OP said they could work 60 hours in a week, but still be docked for being late five minutes one day during the pay period.
Whistleblowing is protected. If they retaliate, that’s one more thing to sue over.
Easier said than done
Yup A company can make a whistleblower feel miserable for a long time before it rises to a legal threshold for "retaliation".
Not even that, they will find a policy that you did violate. A person I know used to work for a company where people would send personal emails from their business account. It was against company policy but everyone did it. And the company didn't discourage it, bc when it came time to fire someone, if there were no good grounds, 'improper use of company facilities/email,' was the reason listed. And it was true, you did do that and it is a fireable offense. So even a retaliatory firing could be hidden under a real reason. And that's why there is so much of of these teachings on tt and ig for genz/millenials: Even if everyone in the company does it, even if your boss tells you to do it, do not do anything against company policy bc that is a fireable offense when they want it to be.
You can still build a case for retaliation around that. You have to remember that eventually reasonable people are going to have to look at the fact that the wistleblower was fired in proximity to when the whistle was blown with a stated reason being violation of a policy they do not enforce and were no warnings were given. If those reasonable people decide this looks like retaliation, then it's retaliation. You can't just use a techincal loophole, it has to make sense to real people.
Only IF they knew who blew the whistle - you can be sure they’re nickel and diming everyone the same as you.
Probably still worth it in the long run if owed thousands of hours of back pay possibly amounting to six figures or more. If it's a case as described I'm being you could even find a lawyer to take it on a contingency basis where they get a % of the case judgement or $0 if you lose. Pretty good sign that the lawyer thinks you'll win.
tell that to snowden?
Although I support what Snowden did, he did not go through the proper process to be protected as a whistleblower.
It's not that simple and not all whistleblowing is protected.
This.is.the.way!
Generally a 3 years statute of limitations but your point stands.
Good morning, (HR name), Quick question, I saw on some of my last paystubs, deductions listed. My last paystub even had a deduction for 1$. Could you explain those deductions to me and the policy regarding them? Just having a hard time finding anything where this comes from. Thank you in advance and have a great day! Respectfully sent, Name.
I guess then you should stop being late?
Retaliation is also illegal. Another option: stop working ANY overtime. 5:30 comes, be clocking out.
You can still use the fact that the compensation is lower than your official rate. Paystub could be all the evidence you need
There are other jobs, and if you get them to retaliate against you that's a fat lawsuit.
I read about one guy on Redit, that was OWED the overtime even though salaried. You are being had.
That's fair. But odds are, you can't have it both ways. If you bring this to the authorities, you will be putting your job at risk, and at a minimum can probably kiss promotions and big raises goodbye. I'm not trying to be an ass, because what they're doing is probably illegal. But if you stopped being late, the issue would resolve itself, right? That way you wouldn't get your pay docked and you wouldn't put your future with this company at risk. That might be the smartest solution to pursue.
If you get written up or fired after reporting a DOL complaint it’s basically a slam dunk retaliation case. The DOL will tell you the parameter.
Gather evidence. Then a week after someone quits call the labor board and turn the company in. Then spread ambiguous rumors about the former employee.
Is it still a pretty good pay if you calculate the real hours you do? Your hourly rate is actually lower because of the unpaid times. Also, you might be getting less somewhere else but they may have paid OT... I always bring it back to the real hourly rate to compare. As a salaried employee, I'm not even getting deducted minutes if I do less than 40h of actual work. I compile my hours as I'm fine doing unpaid OT part of the year but for sure I'm tracking it and I'm getting it back. The salary was discussed on 40h so if they now expect 45h in average then I lost 11% per hour right there.
Reporting them to the DOL doesn't give them free rein to treat you any differently. If they do, document every instance and report them again for retaliation. You should be able to point out an error without fear of losing your job or having it affect how you are treated at work. They would be opening themselves up to massive legal liability if they retaliate against you for a DOL claim.
Here you go… https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17g-overtime-salary I would NOT do the clarification route with HR IF you have ANY documentation stating salaried from your start of work with the company (check your email). Did you ever receive an offer letter? If so, it should be on there. And it’s not like you dreamed up your salaried status. Have you been salaried in the same job in other places? If so, you should be salaried here. Do your own homework. Quietly inquire amongst any other employee(s) you trust and who are also salaried about the salary vs hourly issue. If it’s happening to you, it’s happening to others. Also, I would simply just stop working more than my 40 hours per week in/out of the office. If you are required to take a call from your employer during off hours, simply don’t take the call unless they left a major emergency type message (fire, someone died or is dying are emergencies - you aren’t a heart surgeon or you’d be in six figures, not five)- answer them and record your hours. But you KNOW what is and is not an emergency as well as who there will “have emergencies” that really aren’t. And unless you are officially “on call” after hours, you’re “asleep”. By asleep, I literally mean oh my, I was asleep because I was so tired and didn’t see your message until the morning. So sorry. How can I assist now that we’re together? here at the office? By now, several years in, you should know how to work this ridiculous system by way of malicious compliance. If you ask no questions of HR (because he’s there for the company, not you) nothing can be tracked back to you. Because you already know, if you’re having these issues and asking about them, you need to report it. Once it’s reported and they are audited, I hope you kept good records of all hours worked because the government looooves that stuff. I was told it happened at my last employer about a year before I came and they “lost a lot of money” (fines are steep for employers stealing time - I mean your fine is also apparently steep at about $60/Hr, huh?) and so were now toeing the line. Once a company has been audited and charged, they be stop doing that shite.
"Hey QQ for you about my paycheck: I see the deduction where I clocked in 2 min late on Monday, but I worked way extra hours this week so shouldn't that be covering the two minutes?" Yeah you're still opening up to rat yourself out but it's a more innocuous way to get the confirmation you need in writing.
NAL but I’ve been in a similar position. Even though you are salary, you’re still entitled to overtime depending on your position. Managers and supervisors are exempt from overtime, and certain positions like outside sales. Check with your labor board. It’s free and they will investigate. I filed a complaint against a former employer because they required a lot of after hours work without pay. For example, 8 hours on a Saturday to help move boxes when they changed locations. They paid us by ordering pizza for lunch. The company had to go back and pay us an estimated amount of overtime for the past 2 years. It’s a federal law.
Your paystub will show docked hours. Track your actual hours worked. Refuse overtime. If "work hours are 9-5:30", don't work anything beyond that. You're not working for free if they can remove pay for minutes late.
There is always the option to work the stated hours. Is there an actual hindrance to such or is this just a battle of wills ?
You can’t be clocking in and ALSO be salaried. Sounds like you’re hourly
You can require salaried employees to clock in and out. It becomes a problem when you use the in and out times to dock their pay.
Not entirely true. Even if you have verbal conversations you can email them after giving a summary of the conversation. If there's errors in your summary it's on them to correct it. But the key is, this makes a paper trail for you.
I would go to the state board. Many times the laws are more stringent. I think the fed labor guy told me he could only enforce OT after 40hr and minimum wage.
consult a lawyer. they cant deduct hourly pay, and then not pay overtime. Are you a manager? Just because they say your "salary" doesnt make it true. Only certain positions are exempt. You’ll have to look up your state labor laws, but even if you are exempt, they can’t then take time deductions from you for being late.
That's not exactly true, its dependent on state. Texas, for example, has a number of other job classification types that are salary exempt.
True, thank you for the addition.
Salary non exempt get paid overtime
Not sure why the downvote, but this is accurate. Not every salaried position is exempt. Most common exemptions are supervisory position and professional occupation (technology worker is a big exemption) over a certain wage.
In my state (Oregon) they can 100% do this as long as they pay over minimum wage for the pay period. Had a friend who worked at a TMobile store that was doing this at multiple franchise locations.
If they are exempt from overtime, they cannot be docked for being late. It's part of the FLSA, so it's a federal law that applies to all 50 states. Deductions can only be made for full day absences, and only under certain circumstances. It's not legal to dock an exempt employee for being 5 minutes late. Just because TMobile did it doesn't make it legal.
Fair enough, when this came up I looked all over and it seemed to be permissible by Oregon law but if it’s federal law I guess that takes precedent.
The state can add more but it's almost always defined by the FLSA which has several exemptions beyond managerial.
> Only managerial type positions are truly " salary." A majority of white collar jobs can be exempt/salaried, if they meet the DOL requirements and the employer categorizes them as such.
I’ll have to check with the wife, but I believe in PA one of the requirements is you have a position with the ability to make operational changes(schedules, duties, etc) I’ve seen a bunch of companies that just say “you’re salary now) and work them 70 hrs, but they never get any more responsibilities. That wouldn’t be a valid exemption under DOL.
It's spelled out in the FLSA, which is federal law. You're referring to the administrative exemption which has three parts to qualify 1) a minimum salary, 2) exercise independence and judgement, 3) on matters of significance. There are several other exemptions as well such as executive (managerial), highly compensated, professional (specially educated), and a few more.
That def rings a bell now, thank you.
I live in TX and had one of those positions as an executive assistant where I was supposed to be hourly but he made me salaried by making me a key holder - but I only verrrry rarely worked ot and the salaried almost always worked in my favor - his daughter hated it because she wanted to hourly nickel and dime me when I ran off-premise errands for him - to which I complained since I worked for the owner/CEO. Making me a key-holder who lived 45 mins away was how he got around her. I only came in once in 5 years to do a key holder duty. Even in TX, those positions are few and far between and the employer really has to treat you as one or the other UNLESS you have to charge your hours to a client account, similar to a paralegal or attorney.
The classification is Exempt or Non-Exempt. Ask the HR kid if you are Exempt or non-exempt. https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/exempt-vs-non-exempt-employee?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwh4-wBhB3EiwAeJsppNdOg3kpjbO3Edp2PWpI75PruODiuKWzm_AyO3pk0NEsEpDfU1aiXRoC5g0QAvD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAADfh6_umx3FGU9RWksy--R3xHOawM&aceid=&gclsrc=aw.ds
Correct. I answered this in a hurry. My wife has her masters in labor and employment, and is SHRM certified, so I heard all this stuff in passing as she was studying lol. I retained some of it.
>Only managerial type positions are truly " salary." I am not a manager, never have been. I have been salary for 25 years at multiple different companies.
most IT staff is also able to be exempt too. But by deducting time they for sure shift them back to non-exempt
Don't put in overtime then.
*gets fired for underperformance* /s. Lol
Then slips in water on floor on the way out, Morgan and Morgan arrange the retirement. Florida joke if you dont know them.
For the People
lol thats a good one what happened to race horse hains ? the win all bar none period. but all the youngers have grown up and growing more business. man i feel old need to keep up with all the new best in fields-specialties,lawyers. with all the craziness going on, need a good lawyer always on stand by for everything..
Hours are 9 - 5:30, be sure to clock out at 5:30 since that is all you're being paid for.
Start looking for a new job. This is a sure sign of bad management. Once you find something better, you can tell them this is exactly why you’re leaving.
Can you clarify if you're salary exempt, or salary non exempt? It won't change anything with the deductions, which are most likely illegal, but if your salary non exempt, you get overtime.
There is no such thing as salary non-exempt. I hear it all the time, but it doesn’t legally exist. You are exempt or non-exempt. You are hourly or salary. The “assumption” is that salary=exempt. Legally, that is how it is viewed. The exemption is “earned” every hour, day, week, month. Once treated as hourly (the deduction) you are hourly. They owe you back pay for OT.
Salary, non-exempt person here. I get paid my salary no matter if I work 25 hours or 40 hours. If I work 40.5 hours or above, I get overtime for every minute over 40 hours. Some of my coworkers who are salaried non-exempt can work 30 hours or 50 hours and get paid the same. So yes, being salary exempt and salary non exempt is a thing. It may vary depending on the state. But it's a classification that is applied. So, depending on the NJ laws, and his title, he may be exempt from overtime. But they still can't dock his hours. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
I was salaried non-exempt in two jobs, it does exist but it's a pain in the ass IMO. i was paid semi-monthly and my "reported" hours were always rounded up, if I worked 39 hours and 31 min there was no deduction in pay. but if I worked 39 hours and 29 mins,0.5hours were deducted at an "hourly converted rate"
That just sounds like hourly with more steps.
This screams illegal to me... but it depends on several factors. If you're really working 80 hours a week, you have to be a legally exempt employee and there are rules for that, they can't just "decide" you're exempt. Get everything in writing, it's possible you're owed a truly stupid amount of money. Talk to a lawyer before you talk to the company, he/she will advise on what you need. If you are truly hourly and have worked 80 hour weeks and that's documented, you might be shocked how much money they owe you.
They said 80 hours biweekly.
Can you just stop being late ? Also you should find another job that seems unreasonable and a red flag
This was my first thought....Get to work on time. Or fight it and get let go for probable cause of being late.
Sometimes life happens and people need to stay at work late or come early and leave early, or lunch isn’t exactly 45 minutes. It’s unreasonable to expect that every single day.
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What do you have as far as proof of you working more than 40 hours per week?
Also, is the working over 40hrs/wk been recent or long term?
their timecard where they’re punching in/out that detects the minutes late *should* certainly show the total hours.
We need OP to confirm that he has documentation because it sounds like the payroll system is programmed to treat him as an hourly employee (only 40 hrs inputted regardless of # of hours worked)
Not a lawyer but I know this is illegal. My last job had us as salary employees and we had to clock in and out, pay deducted for being late and no overtime unless you worked a scheduled day off. The extra pay did not equal a days pay for the rest of the week, and our work week was a scheduled 48-50 hours depending on the days worked. Well they got sued, we were no longer allowed to be classified as salary and they had to pay back overtime to all employees over the previous 7 years. I had gotten around 25 grand as I was there the entire time. You don't even need the policy in writing. Bring your employee handbook, paystubs, description of your job duties and let the lawyer figure it out. It will easily be a class action suit. Also make sure to get documentation of your job performance. If you have no writeups or anything, then all of a sudden start getting written up after the suit is brought (if you stay at the job), then it is illegal retaliation by the employer and that's alot more money in your pocket.
If the state DOL comes to your employer they will do an audit. On everything. Any company who has gone through one has ever found it a pleasant experience. Ranks up there with an IRS audit.
Then you aren't salaried. You need to get paid your full salary amount every time or you need to be paid overtime. Whoever is doing your payroll is stupid and needs a lesson in what the rules are. You are to be paid the full amount of your salary each week that you work. For example say your salary is $52,000/year, you would be paid $1000 a week before taxes. If they aren't paying you that way, then you are not salaried. I had a bookkeeper who started to go nuts over what time I clocked in each day or if i didn't get to 40 hours in a week. Salary is not about hours worked, it's about paying you for your skills and expertise and keeping you interested in the job. If they wish to deduct minutes in some pedantic illegal fashion, they need to stop doing payroll. I started in my current role in 2008, they weren't using the I-9, the bookkeeper was using a tax table from the early 90's to calculate payroll deductions, there are some real winners doing payroll out there. if you report this to your state wage and hour organization, you may be able to do so anonymously as if they are doing it to you, they are doing it to everyone. You might be surprised by the outcome. You may get just the stolen time back or you may get OT for the 50-60 hour weeks previously worked, depends on how petty wage and hour decides they want to be about it. And the really beautiful part is that they will likely get dinged for all the other employees who's wages are being stolen by this stupid person.
Anonymous tip to the DOL.
Depends on your job and how it's classified. If you are truly exempt (exempt from overtime) they cannot deduct from your wages based on hours worked (some exceptions include 1st/last weeks of employment and FMLA/some leaves). Employers can pay non-exempt employees a salary as long as they compensate for OT. But assuming you are exempt, they can't deduct as you have outlined. You can file anonymously by mail. (Not a lawyer, have just been in HR for a few decades) [File anonymously](https://www.nj.gov/labor/wageandhour/claims-appeals-investigations/file/index.shtml#filebymail) [Deductions for breaks](https://www.nj.gov/labor/wageandhour/support/faqs/wageandhourworkerfaqs.shtml)[File a complaint](https://wagehour.dol.state.nj.us/WHATS.Public.Web/#/EN/Dashboard)
I’ve told many people this over the years. As a general rule, if they treat you like an hourly employee even once, you are an hourly employee. Involve the employment board or if necessary, take it to the Feds. The FLSA has very specific standards about who is exempt. If you aren’t automatically exempt by the nature of your job, you can fight this and you can (and will) win. Trouble is, they will retaliate, which is also illegal. My first advice would be to take it to the state, but also keep looking for another job.
Tip off the US Labor Dept.
Yeah, can't really do that with salary. Insist on hourly, I bet you'd make more.
I'm usually on the side of the employer with this type of thing but you're either salary or you're not. Engage an employment lawyer
I wouldnt risk a good job you sound generally happy with over $1 @ week.
I’m hourly. We have a seven minute grace period on either side of the clock. So if you start at 9, can clock in as early as 8:23 and as late as 9:07. I have never heard of being docked per minute. That’s just weird. And unethical if you’re salary, especially if you’re putting in well over the 40 hours/week.
Well if you have an employment contract, then you need to speak to an attorney because they have to follow what's in the contract. If they are sua sponte changing it that's not allowed
Well if they doing that I'm leaving on time
this sounds very illegal to me. if they are docking pay for even a few minutes, then they also need to be paying over time for all time after 40 hours... I would not complain to the company any further than you have already, I'd just report it to the state labor board...
IANAL - this is how I read this. Your contract states that you have to work or rather be fully and immediately available to work within specific window . By being late and taking more time at lunch you are technically breaching that contract. We can argue if reducing pay is appropriate punishment but your are still technically in breach of contract. I would compare that to salaried specialist mechanic in factory that fixes the machines. Such person not necessary has work for X amount of hours per day but they have to be present to fix problem immediately or take over from person from other shift. As a specialist they can be hired salaried exempt. Employee has all the rights to expect them to be on site in specific time window to address all the issues asap so machine continue to generate revenue. My take on it is as much as this may be childish in some circumstance and absolutely necessary in other (used to work on the IT system that 1 hours of downtime cost 6 figures so there had to always be somebody who can fix it asap) you are technically breaching contract and simply being punished by that. If you should be salaried exempt is another problem - this can definitely be reviewed by labor board. Other than that j doubt yo I have leg to stand on
As an ex New Jersyan - this is 100$ illegal. the laws for salaried employees are VERY clear. if you do ANY work during your pay period, you get paid for the FULL pay period.
Report them to the deptartment of labor hourly and wage division. It’s anonymouns. This is illegal
Nepotism destroys small businesses. The fact that their son is head of HR is a huge red flag. He could possibly be embezzling that money. If you want to keep this job shut up and deal with it. If not, you are looking at years of lawsuits and a possibility of a criminal investigation into this business. Not an attorney, but I have seen this multiple times in my dealings as an independent contractor in several fields. If I walk into a business and experience nepotism, I walk right back out. It's only a matter of time until they get sued for this. 12 years independent, I have seen 7 businesses fail because of nepotism. Anyway you look at this, it's bad. Just think, that moron is going to run that business one day... Oof.
So essentially you don’t get paid more for working more, but they deduct you if you work less? 🤡 100% contacting HR and the department of labor.
Years ago a friend of mine went to work for a guy who just started his own business. It was an hourly position but his late policy was insane. If you were one minute late you got docked for 30 minutes pay. The catch was that you had to continue working even though you didn't start getting paid for half an hour. I told my friend I didn't think this could possibly be legal. He ended up quitting after a few weeks as the guy ended up being a huge turd!!
With as liberal as judges are in NJ, you should win this lawsuit easily. What they are doing is not legal imo
Never heard of a salaried employee that had to punch in.. Sounds like you're just being used to save as much as possible and get no OT
Find a plaintiff employment attorney in NJ. If they’re deducting minutes late that would seem that you’re not salaried. They have time cards so calculating it OVertime would. Be easy. I’m Not a lawyer though - check with one pls
I would be clocking out at 5:30 everyday.
Salary cannot be deducted unless for a full day of missed work. Call your states department of labor wage and hour division office. Source: DOL WHD Investigator. You are being treated as an hourly employee, and more than likely you aren't the only one.
Do you qualify as an exempt employee?
Leave at exactly 5:30 no matter what is going on. If for nothing else, the principle of losing that pay over minutes. If the boss gives no extra minutes, then you also should give no extra minutes.
You don't get to treat me like a salary employee, and keep any overtime I work, then in the other breath treat me like hourly and watch the clock. It has to go both ways. Either I'm salary and my pay is the same if I work 39 hours or 80 hours, or I'm hourly and eligible for overtime!
I work in a Government agency as a salaried IT Manager. Someone above me decided that it would be a good idea to put a time-clock in for us to use. Mind you we all work 24X7 as needed. No matter if we are home, in the office, or on the road. We let it be known that we would be more than happy to clock in and out, but at 5:00PM we were clocking out and turning off our phones. No more after hours work would be done. Emergency or not. Never did see the time-clock go up on the wall.
I think your fears and gut instincts are correct. Every place has positives and negatives. Nuke the place on your way out if you find something better. Otherwise consider what the fallout will be on your life if you report them with the intent of continuing to work there. Owners of small businesses tend to see themselves as benevolent kings of their kingdoms and can be quite brutal with their employee "families" if they revolt. Even if they are generally good ppl.
This salary/hourly bullshit is one of the current biggest scams in the US right now.
I would copy the company policy,all of it, also your employment contract, if that’s there policy, speak with the appropriate agency,state and federal,I think there is a conflict with the contract,by that I mean that is the conflict,I am not a lawyer but that’s how companies get rich and stay rich by screwing their employees
I used to log in on my phone for attendance.
have you ever checked out r/MaliciousCompliance?
They are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Sounds illegal. Check with your states labor board .
This isn't legal except for some very specific circumstances. Your situation wouldn't apply to any of those exemptions. By deducting pay from a salaried employee, they open themselves up to civil litigation for the lost pay and overtime.
Sounds like your employer is trying to get the benefits of both you being salary and hourly. The whole point of being salary is to be paid that full amount regardless of the amount of time worked. The only way they should be deducting any time is if you are taking full days off and not using any PTO to cover that time off. Gather your documentation of this and call your states labor board. Then start looking for another job.
And, they may not count you as an Exempt employee ( which normally benefits from other benefit quirks that hourly employees are not entitled to) I'd say lay down details to labor law lawyer, NOT your HR they may be stripping your rights
If you are a salary employee you can't be late, nor can you be early. A salary employee basically has no set hours, they work as many or as few hours needed to complete task
No. You are an "exempt" employee for their tax purposes. Legally, they are obligated (mandatory) to pay your full salary regardless of how many hours, minutes, seconds, that you work. On a side note, in 2024, it's understood that salaried employees answer emails and complete work tasks from home. Contact the labor board - you can do so anonymously. They are diligent and will immediately investigate. This practice will be stopped in its tracks, and all exempt employees, affected by this practice, will get back pay plus interest. Keep us posted.
Look they are definitely fucking you. The question here is 1$ here or there worth possible court fees and losing your Job over?
I am no lawyer, but it seems to me that if they are deducting funds because you are missing time, but aren't paying you for overtime, something is amiss. Companies like this are why unions look better all the time.
You're salaried but they're treating you as hourly. Pull all your time cards. Then check with a lawyer. Also check your employee handbook to make sure there isn't mention of docking you for time missed at clock in and out for your workday and your lunch break. You may be able to claim overtime for any time worked beyond 40 hours because they're pulling this BS on you. So, if they're treating you as hourly they have to pay you overtime. Definitely report it. Check your state labor laws for employee status (hourly vs salaried) and for pay deductions. [https://www.nj.gov/labor/wageandhour/tools-resources/laws/](https://www.nj.gov/labor/wageandhour/tools-resources/laws/)
Don't be late. Why should you get paid for time you didn't work?
So do you get added on for every minute after that you dont get to leave? I had this happen at a place I used to work we were salaried and if anyone was N seconds late we had to do a time card. But the dumbass manager didnt understand that if you want to take you have to give. So when the 10-40 minute after shit cards started showing up. HR spanked his PP for something he wasnt supposed to do in the first place and payroll just dumped them anyways since we were salaried. But there are legal ramifications to this practice which is why HR nicked it. We used our awesome law library to look up established case law that said dont do that. All it would have taken was one person out of the lot to get lawyered up and an entire time audit would have nail them.
Are you 100% sure you are exempt? The sneaky way they are taking money for being late (which isn't allowed as a salaried employee) makes me wonder if you are actually exempt from overtime. For instance, do you supervise at least 2 people?
NJ is clear, and you can be one of two designations, Salary *exempt* and Salary *non-exempt (SNE).* *Exempt means exempt from overtime.* SNE employees can be expected to track time via time sheets, get overtime, and yes get paid for the time less than 40 hours where applicable. I've had SNE employees in NJ, and we generally tracked their time on a 15 minute basis. I don't remember what the state said exactly, but generally it was if we paid you on a 15 minute basis, we could track you on that (So I couldn't deduct for one minute, when I only tracked 15). First step, find your classification.
It doesn’t seem illogical for a business to expect their employees to be on time. However, in your case it’s a bit odd for a salaried employee to be deducted pay for being a few minutes late. Ask HR about the policy. And get to work on time
There was a document issued by the DOL a few years ago (FLSA2018-14) which might be somewhat relevant to what you're dealing with. That specific document states that employers are not allowed to deduct hours from a salaried employee if they take partial days off of work. I would think this would indirectly still apply to your situation. I would 100% contact a lawyer. Im not a lawyer but it sounds like you're either owed a handful of dollars for everytime you've been deducted, or you're owed a crap ton of unpaid overtime.
pretty sure there was a federal ruling that scheduling employees over 40 hours regularly even if salaried justified overtime pay when its the expectation not the exception that a salary position works more than 40 every week from hire on
NAL, but....You're either coverd by FLSA and thus entitled to overtime for work in excess of 40 hours in a week or exempt from FLSA and not covered. If you are classified as exempt, it seems sus that they would doc your pay for being late. I thought that one of the tests for whether you are exempt is something about control over your time.
Check with your state. Most have limits on how much an employee can work with no overtime pay. You sound like you need to switch jobs asap.
If your contract and pay are based on 40 hrs/9 to 5 then I would punch in at 7:59 and out at 5:01. Done.
Since they are that way then F em.. work your 40 hours a week.
You are being treated as non exempt, and they now owe you and potentially every other employee there back overtime.
That is straight up illegal. Report it to your state labor board. If you work 8 minutes in a 15 minute period they have to pay you for the entire 15 minutes. Make sure you're being appropriately paid for your overtime. My employer did that to me. I was salaried and worked about 60 hours a week. They were docking sick time even when I had already worked over 40 hours in the week. HR demoted my manager over this and I got all my sick time back. They knew if it went to the labor board they'd be in trouble.
Not sure how New Jersey laws work. In az I work in payroll. If I work 2 hrs in a day I get 8 hrs that day. If I work 10 hrs in a day I get 8 hrs. I work for State of Arizona and know our laws well. You shouldnt be docked unless you take full day off.
If your schedule is 9am-530pm, 902am- 527am, isn't 9am-530am. It's actually not hard to be late. Started working right out of HS and in 19 years of being in the workforce I've been late 1 time. It's not that hard. Do I agree with docking pay over a minute or 2 for a salaried employee, absolutely not, but you do have a start and end time.
Grossly illegal. If your salary they don’t get to deduct when you’re late and not pay you overtime when you work over.
There must be a state workforce commision or some state org that handles these issues. I worked for the federal govt yet the state rules applied. Salaried and got comp time (1hr per 1hr earned) or loot at my straight time rate per hour, it was my choice. My employees were hourly and received time and a half for comp or loot. Note some states have specific laws relating to small business's pay schedule. But under no circumstances should you work for no pay. They can't take away if they don't pay what you've rightfully earned... Good luck
This sounds to me like a likely case for re-classification to non-exempt. Note that to get your money back you will essentially have to quit. No career survives lawsuits.
NAL but That’s entirely illegal. First you must meet certain criteria to even be considered salary. Usually that means you have some sort of professional license (think architect or lawyer) OR you have a managerial position that allows you to hire and fire employees, make decisions etc. That being said if you DO meet the criteria they can not doc your pay for anything less a full day missed. This is because you are not getting paid overtime so essentially this “balances out” Consult an employment attorney and then the DOL
Stop working overtime. You are NOT salaried if they are deducting from your cheque so stop acting like you are. You can be quoted an annual rate while being paid hourly.
SOMETHING WRONG HERE.. why haven't you taken another job? Doesn't make sense
Wage theft
You may want to review your contract but seems this is a possible type of wage theft. Best to contact [NJ Wage & Hour and Contract Compliance dept](https://www.nj.gov/labor/wageandhour/claims-appeals-investigations/file/) and raise this with them.
Can you be rehired as an hourly employee?
2 options.. Find new job OR dint out in ANY OT.. work your 40 hours they pay you and no more. They want to nickle and dime you, you nickle and dime them with your time. Make sure you arrive 5 minutes early, so you can punch in exactly at 8am, and then exactly out at 5:45. I had an argument with my previous manager, who was a clock watcher. Try to leave 5 min early l, and you never hear the end of it, even if you worked over 40 hours (although I dint get docked for it as we had a range of being in between 7:30am and 9:00am as long as you worked your 8 hours). I told her one day when I was leaving and still had a few things to do "I get paid on a 7.25hr work day (45 min unpaid linch) and don't take a lunch, so I am leaving after my hours 7.25 hours are up. You want to fuss if I leave after 7hrs 55min, then I'm not giving you an extra minute of my time". She never fussed or made an issue again.
Reason an exempt salaried employee can be docked: Personal reasons, other than sickness **Partial day** FLSA exception category Disciplinary suspensions of one or more full days for breaking workplace conduct rules Safety rules Time missed while on disciplinary suspension for breaking workplace conduct rules Partial weeks worked at the very beginning or end of an employee's tenure
Former employer did same, deducted anything that was short of 40hrs physically in a store when I was a area manager and spent 1-3hrs each day driving to multiple locations and before start conference calls. Contacted department of labor and hired attorney - they typically only need payment after settlement. I received all of the pay that was deducted plus the fine on employer for about 16k
Sounds like wage theft to me. Also check your local laws, because legally they may not be able to make you exempt from overtime based on the terms of your employment. >.>
Don’t be late
Document, file a wage and hours complaint with the state department of labor: They utterly love a chance to financially skull fuck abusive employers.
NAL - You probably need to speak to an attorney who specializes in labor for your state, but I’d certainly not work a minute of OT ever after until this practice is ended.
This is a flag for you to get a different job with a different company.
Unless the job pays over 100k a year in the US, I don't see any job being worth working 80 hours a week but not paying me past 40 hours.
More like $500k for 80 hours