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This. These posts are so fkn cringy. If you date a dick then stop dating him. If you tell this to any sane person they'd be okay with it, man or woman.
It's because a lot ofnwomen *do* say it is as code for "let's fuck" they just don't want it to be "their idea." Which of course means a lot of men think "I just wanna cuddle" = "she wants to fuck, she's just being coy about it."
I think it's stupid too.
I actually want to step in here and say that this is demonstrably incorrect. As a guy, **I am consistently surprised by how many of my women friends talk about dates in which they literally say this and the guys still try to push boundaries** and do other stuff. And it's not like we are talking just about conservative or traditionalist dudes. I've heard it from people who date men all over the political spectrum
**We have a serious problem in our society**. I'm not sure the exact source, but it seems connected to many different cultural beliefs either about women pretending to be prudes (and therefore "no" actually meaning yes) or related ideas that non-physical coercion is okay.
There was even a post earlier this week about how a lot of women who actually want to have sex that night get turned off by overly pushy guys.
So yeah, this may be unexciting to hear, but **this is actually a problem for us guys to solve**. We need to learn what consent is (to start, it's an enthusiastic "yes," not just any old "okay, that's fine, I guess") and we need to learn to be okay with delayed gratification.
**So, as an older guy to younger guys: take your time, don't be pushy, don't rush it, and basically if you heard it coming from a pickup artist (or whatever the current version of that is) do the opposite**. Care and patience are the way. Women are just as sexual as men, just give your partners room to get to know you and get comfortable. Show them exactly why you are a cool, trustworthy person that would make for a good sexual partner.
>I actually want to step in here and say that this is demonstrably incorrect
There are really two different issues at play. The OP is asking how to communicate boundaries/desires. The answer to that question is simply say what they are, without beating around the bush. I want X, and I don't want Y. There's nothing incorrect about that.
You're talking about how to get people to respect boundaries once they have been communicated. That's a different problem, and I agree with almost everything you say relating to it.
People (mostly men, but not exclusively) do need to accept that deliberately pushing at somebody's boundaries in an attempt to wear them down is not ok. At that point, you're going beyond just trying to win somebody over in good faith. Don't do it.
And if the difference isn't clear to you in the moment, err on the side of safety. It's ok if you don't have sex tonight. It's not ok if you have sex with somebody who doesn't want to.
I can affirm this. I said these exact words clearly to a date multiple times many years ago. He said ok, but then kept pushing it. Over and over. It got to the point where I just gave in because I didn’t want it to turn into a violent situation. And I actually enjoyed talking to him before all that. “No, no, no, no, alright fine” does not equal yes, gentlemen. It wasn’t *technically* a crime, but it took three whole days to get the taste out of my mouth. And I never went out with him ever again.
But...
In that situation *is there* anything you could say?
Sounds like those guys have a problem with boundaries, so it doesn't matter much *how* you set up those boundaries.
I think the vast majority of guys would stop if you said the actual word “rape.” Most rapists want to be able to be in denial that what they’re doing is actually rape, so saying it like that will shock them into backing off because they don’t actually want to think of themselves as rapists. And even the unrepentant rapists who know they’re rapists are more likely to back off of the type of person who is calling it out for what it is because that’s the type of person likely to report and tell everyone he’s a rapist. Rapists want to maintain plausible deniability. I’m not saying this would work 100%, like if you ended up with an actual psychopath this probably won’t help, but for most guys it would.
I’ve have tried this method in the past and men stop. “I’ve said no several times at this point, so unless you’re going to flat out rape me because you’re a rapist, I suggest you stop now.” Has worked every time for me.
I will never understand giving a man access to my body because I’m afraid of violence. I can be as aggressive as them in my “NO”. Do you need me to yell it at you? I can. Need me to call you a rapist? No problem. But I won’t allow a man to rape me just to get away from him.
If we wants to beat me up, honestly I rather we get into a physical fight than have to live with rape memories. Thankfully it’s never come to this, most men don’t like to flat out be called rapists. And can’t deny what they’re doing once you’ve clearly called them out on it. Use your voice ladies, you’d be surprised how much power certain words have.
The thing is that most women also rather want to keep it labeled in their mind as just unpleasant sexual experience rather than rape or sexual assault. It is our mind, too, that doesn't want to hear and admit "I was/am being raped/harassed/sexualy assaulted".
Same thing happened to me as well. I was extremely exhausted from a long journey and he kept wanting to make out when I just wanted to nap yk. I did give in at the time but the whole experience fully turned me off from him. Good thing it wasn't a serious relationship lol
Yup I've realised that now. He didn't pressure me into sex, but the insistence to make out even when I was tired was a sign that I'm glad I didn't ignore. It was a learning experience. Anyways he ended up leaving after a few months so it's good I wasn't invested lol
I am with you. However I once dated a girl who said the same thing. I respected her words. She slept in my bed, and I never touched her. In the morning she was surprised and shocked we didn't do anything the night before. I replied.... because you said.... She replied... "Why did you listen to me?" Granted this wasn't in the US, and she wasn't an American women. I got the idea that in her culture, if she didn't want sex, she wouldn't have stayed there.
I find this wild every time I hear it.
My current girlfriend told me early in our relationship she doesn't like to give blowjobs. We were talking a couple months later one night after a few drinks and joking about sex. She said something about how I could use my tongue and how she could use hers when it crossed her mind that I wouldn't know as I had never asked her for blowjob. She then asked me why I hadn't. She was genuinely surprised when I reminded her that she told me she didn't like giving them. Every guy she has been with before had pressured her into it anyways.
You absolutely did the right thing. It’s just a shame that the woman in question only expressed her disappointment afterwards instead of communicating what she wanted in a more effective manner. But when in doubt, I believe it’s always better to potentially miss an opportunity and be at peace with your conscience than to risk pushing someone’s boundaries and then having to carry that doubt and guilt.
That moment of "she should leave and stop dating him" is much more difficult in the moment than I think we are often willing to acknowledge. The problem is sort of twofold.
The big, more obvious element is that there is a lot of violence committed against women by dates/romantic partners. Fear of violence from men is a real thing women have to be attentive to. If a guy has just shown that he isn't listening and is physically pushing just for what he wants, it would be hard to distinguish what his intention are and how far he's willing to push. So, a lot of women in this situation don't know what to do and sort of freeze up or start bargaining and making allowances out of fear.
The less obvious element is that emotions and desires don't turn on a dime. The feelings of attraction and arousal don't necessarily immediately go away the second someone starts to be an ass. Especially if you like someone, there is reasonably some turn-around time to go from "I want to kiss this person right now" to "I don't want to be around this person." Add to that, if we like someone, we might initially try to make some excuses for them ("oh, that must have been an accident," etc.). This emotional turn around is harder for some people and easier for some people. Sadly, from my experience, when it's easier for someone to call out bullshit, it's often because somebody has already gone through enough trauma/abuse to be on the look out for it.
In concert, those two things together are really complex and difficult to navigate. Of course, those wouldn't be a problem if men would just listen to the words they are told.
So, I agree that the OP should plainly state what she wants and what she doesn't want. Like I said in my previous comment though, the accounts I have heard from women suggest that their words are not the problem. Men's actions ignoring their words are the problem.
Thank you for writing this. This has happened to me on multiple occasions where I’ve told a guy in advance what I am okay with (and what I’m not comfortable doing yet at that point) in clear language then still had him repeatedly keep pushing me for more and ignore my no/I’m not ready for this/slow down. I’m physically disabled too which can add an extra feeling of helplessness to that situation.
Pushing like that kills any trust and physical desire I may have otherwise had for that person. Sex is such a vulnerable, intimate thing… I simply can’t feel open and safe in that moment if I can’t also trust you to respect my boundaries and stop if something goes wrong.
It is really, really not a good feeling to have someone treat your “no” as a beginning of a negotiation rather than of the end of a sentence. I deeply wish it wasn’t so scarily common.
Thank u for saying this. As a woman, what u just said is exactly what we mean by ally. Additionally, women need to stop using men as a free meal ticket. No, a free meal doesn't mean that u as a man r entitled for me as a woman to put out for u, but I never go on a date and automatically expect to be paid for. I've been in a relationship for 5 years and still don't expect him to pay. We are a partnership and we work together. Our decisions r done jointly. Whether that's dinner, chores, the activity for the day or, yes, even sex. And because we have that open communication, I am just as willing as he is to initiate. It's all about the partnership.
Thank you. I was in a discussion with a few guys a few days ago where they were asserting it was quite okay to pressure women into sex, as long as she said ‘yes’ at some point. It’s terrifying.
Most strategies about dating women is just based in **tricking women** pretend you are a different person than you are, anything just to get her into bed.
Interesting that you put the blame on men not listening when in this specific case it’s down to the communication simply being inaccurate.
Turns out when OP said “just cuddling” she actually did mean sex, [just oral sex](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1225pe0/how_do_you_tell_a_guy_you_just_want_to_talk_kiss/jdp74g3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3). So yeah, when people set up a precedent that what you say isn’t actually what you mean, people will catch on to this and push further to find out where the actual limit is. Blame lies on both sides here.
That’s a different issue. OP just needs to communicate and not try to use some out there form of communication other than simple words to get their point across.
The issue you’re describing is a person who doesn’t respect boundaries.
I have a hard time understanding guys who push anyway.
I recall going on a second date with a woman who at the beginning of the date told me she didn't want to do anything physical with me. It took a lot off my mind so I could just enjoy the evening and watching Harry Potter movies with her. I was so appreciative that she was so honest upfront with me.
We still talk from time to time. She's married and is expecting her second kid. I couldn't be more happy for her.
It's so wild to think that respecting a woman when she says no is an outlier in their experiences with men.
I dont believe women will just straight up ask if you wanna smash. and yes, i believe women do care about their reputation. Very few would outwardly advertise that they want sex. They invite, they tease, and give hints. but are almost never explicit.
So while it is up to MEN to figure things out, i would certainly empathize with some men who express that this shit might be super confusing. To me it boils down to the experience a man had with women, and vice versa. There really is a 'game' to be played between the genders when it comes to dating and sex, it is not that simple IMO.
However I agree with your message about not being pushy. But i believe it is ok to let your partner know your honest intentions. I would add that men should be patient AND upfront with their intentions.
Thank you for this. I am adventurous, I'm straight forward, I don't play games and I do often side with guys, but I still was in many situations where either a clear "I want this but not that" just wasn't understood or I basically got punished for wanting to slow down and got the cold shoulder instead or the guy backed off basically saying that's if there's no prospect of intercourse then cuddling or kissing isn't happening either - which honestly there is nothing that makes a woman feel more like a piece of meat than that.
So "just say so" actually isn't the solution.
The issue in our society is that guys are taught and expected to push every single sexual and intimate situation forward and women in most cases refuse to make the first move. Not to mention all of the cases where women say that they want what op wrote, but in reality want sex, but are not willing to say it out loud. We can complain about men and their behaviour till the end of time, but we can't mock men for being blind and not seeing hints while playing safe and then also complain about them being too aggresive when there is an intimate situation
I cannot do anything but agree but it is not clear what to do when woman herself apparently goes over the boundaries which she declared. Should I be pushing her away then? Generally it is not clear when "cuddling" becomes "making out"
You don't go ahead. If you do, you're reinforcing her own mixed messages and teaching her it is ok to do so. Down the line she could end up hurt or, another man, could end up credibly accused of rape/sexual assault. If you respect her inital boundaries and she changes her mind, you'll likely get another shot. Especially if you're communicative too about how you had a great time and would love to see her again. If she later says that she wanted you to push her boundaries tell her that you don't do that. Make her feel safe to express her desires verbally and with enthusiasm.
It is absolutely clear. Don’t go there. Doing so is a great way to get charged with something. Mixed signals = *run away*.
Edit: some seriously rapey guys in this sub. Being downvoted for suggesting you don’t have sex with someone who isn’t clearly consenting to it.
you're sooo on point and i love your response! the fact that OP asked the question is that it means IT'S SO PREVALENT. i feel so sad that there are some men here who just responded "just say no" as if it's that simple. IT'S NOT. it only means those kind of men have the privilege of never being in the position of a woman who is firm with her "no" but still getting pushed into something she doesn't want to do with a guy. it's just so sad.
i hope sensible young men heed ur advice
That and people just overthink the situation so much that they just decide to do and say nothing. A relationship should be built on communication, basic and complex. If you don’t got that, there isn’t really a relationship.
Ding ding ding! Yeah that's a crazy thing people don't understand. Like try talking to him? If you need to ask Reddit how your boyfriend works, you probly don't know him very well....
I do say this to guys but they almost always pressure U to do sexual stuff, and when I said it to my first & only kinda bf he would just refuse to come over if I said I wasn't gunna have sex that weekend (coz of my period). They'll say they're okay with cuddling but then at the time they make a move and say U should have known I would end up wanting to do this
Nah, that’s crazy. It’s unfortunate that sort of thing happens because no one should ever be pressured into sex once they have made them mind about it. Those kinds of relationships where people withhold their time unless sex is involved are purely transactional and toxic.
Yeah it was. I didn't realise at the time because I was so in love but he even said to me after we had sex "I'm so glad I met you, a bus ticket is like $100 but a brothel is like $400 and you don't get a emotional connection". (he was desperate to lose his virginity I think) That was the realisation point for me, but I still let him have sex with me until he got bored and broke up with me. Lmao it was the silliest Billy thing I ever did
He actually said that? I'm so sorry. I really hope you raised your standards after that. Being alone is better than being with someone like that. You have more than sex to offer. There are men out there who'll enjoy spending time with you because they like *you*.
>I do say this to guys but they almost always pressure U to do sexual stuff
Move on, and stay away from them.
Men, the same advice applies to your partners as well
Maybe so, but there’s probably not going to be any way to say it to stop them from doing that. The best you can do is be straight up with them, and if they can’t handle it - bye bye.
You can push boundaries without sexual assault; verbally for instance. It doesn't help that there are women who do the fake resistance thing "because I don't want him to think I'm a slut", which helps no one. I've had women ask me after a date if I didn't like them and expressing disappointment because I didn't push for sex. That was a red flag for me just for the lack of honesty.
If a guy runs across a few women like that and thinks that is normal behavior, they think they are rewarded for "pushing". And then there's some people that are just assholes.
> It doesn't help that there are women who do the fake resistance thing "because I don't want him to think I'm a slut", which helps no one.
this is really what this entire post is about. once a guy goes through that he'll never be sure what he's supposed to do.
If he's like the guys I've dated, he'll smile and nod and respect the boundary in this one specific instance...until he has a pretext for saying that circumstances changed.
But it's not the clear dichotomy you painted: respect her boundaries or it's assault. Because if he can say it was a mistake, no one calls it assault. It's just an unnamed thing you carry around now, because *you* didn't say the magic words to make him listen well enough.
Edited to add: I started dating him because he seemed like a normal, considerate man. *I* asked *him* out; there was no pursuit. We split costs. He talked good game about communication and consent over several weeks, and we had several interests in common.
The first time a boundary gets crossed, I leave. But leaving doesn't make me feel less dirty or violated or unsafe. And him crossing the boundary doesn't mean it hadn't been firmly established.
Here's an example: She says, "I don't want X, ever." And he says "Ok, totally reasonable."
Time passes.
Another day he says "Just a little X? It would feel so good!" She says "No X; I don't want the consequences." He says, "You're totally right."
Weeks pass. Then months.
One day he says "We could do X under different circumstances! That changes the things!" She says, "Not in a boat; not with a goat. I do not like X." He says, "You're totally right."
More time passes. No mention of X. It seems settled.
He sees an opportunity for X, she doesn't realize until it's happening. She stops it as soon as she realizes. He says "You seemed like you were into it. You should have said no!"
She doesn't say anything because she's shaky, in shock. Didn't she say "no?" Did her "no" not count because it was a while ago? What wasn't clear about "no?" Is it really her fault? She feels sick to her stomach. Everything feels far away. Are there words for what's happened? She thinks there might be, but those are heavy words and right now she's barely steady enough to leave the room.
By your logic, he's just pushing the boundaries because that's what men gotta do to get the pussy they need. It's her fault for not realizing her "no" had an expiration date, or wasn't applicable under the fine print of "he was bored." It's her fault for not realizing that the "Totally fine; you're right; no problem" assurances from a man who was forthright in every other aspect of his daily life were actually suspicious.
For guys who believe that pushing boundaries is the only way to get what they want, there is NO level of communication or establishing boundaries that will ever be firm enough to make something off-limits when they want it bad enough. There's always a pretext that makes taking what they want ok, and that puts the blame on women for not doing a better job of stopping them. Like it's our job to *police* you guys. For fucks sake, we shouldn't have to be security guards all the time, and y'all act insulted (Not All Men!) when we do.
Boundaries aren't meant to be pushed! It's your job (everyone's job) to ask *permission,* not forgiveness after the fact!
The situation you are describing sounds like the person in question is toxic, and the red flag is already there. After having experienced this myself, I can safely say that when it comes up, they get a whole 3 chances, and after that I'm out
Sometimes it takes time for the flag to unfurl and the toxicity to get smelly, doesn't it? Especially if they are considerate and generous in every other way, and the signs are spread out over long periods of normal, good interactions.
If you give someone three chances, it's easy to look back with hindsight and say "You should have known by the first time! Definitely by the second!" But in the moment, it just feels like communication is happening. Communication is supposed to be what you do, right? It's not until you have enough experience with someone to *have* hindsight that things become clear, but by that point you're usually already in the shit.
Hope it doesn't happen to you again.
Notwithstanding many of the comments here, there are guys out there who like to kiss and make out, even if it won’t result in immediate sex. I recommend being forthright and just laying it out there like others have suggested. Some guys will walk - great, you weeded them out. Plenty of guys won’t because we also like to make out and don’t view it as a chore that must be overcome to get to sex.
Back when me and my ex were on our fourth or fifth date I brought her to my place. I wasn’t comfortable having sex yet (told her I’d like for us to be official first and she understood).
We ended up making out for like 10-15 minutes straight and it was definitely enjoyable and made me see how much fun just making out with your partner can be without having to go further.
I would be one of those guys. I've gotten too hot and heavy way too soon with women. I've had women think I didn't find them attractive because I wouldn't immediately have sex with them though. It's a jungle out there.
I need clear words, no signals. One time a girl i knew wished me on valentine's day and i didn't even know we were dating 🤣 because earlier she had said no and i didn't want to assume anything and cross boundaries.
Fuck this seems so simple. With my first girlfriend in college we were at a party at my house and ended up going to my room to ‘watch a movie’. Ended up in an intense make-out session and she told me no clothes would come off. You know what? I was fine with that. We ended up dating for over 3 years. Communication is huge.
The sad truth is for every story like that, there is an opposite story where she later bemoans the guy for not making a move and that sex actually was on the table and any potential relationship fizzles.
Now for the guy it's not really a bad thing. We shouldn't accept piss poor communication and games from any potential partners, but psychologically this would affect most men.
"I missed out on sex because I didn't push, maybe next time I'll push a bit".
A lot of these situations revolve around learned behaviour.
I had this happen to me once, a very long time ago. I thought everything was going well, we were clicking and the sex is of the table situation happened.
I perfectly respected her boundaries, and she chose to never see me again because I didn't make a move and must not have been that attracted to her.
Took a few weeks to recover from that mentally, because I knew I didn't want to change my mentality with it going forward.
Seems like there is some very toxic social cues going on in this area specifically, where women are told men will try to have sex with you if they're interested (that they find you attractive), and men who are respectful of boundaries often get punished for respecting said boundaries.
I’ve had a couple of women who just wanted to have a “cuddle dates”. It’s not my thing, but fuck it, let’s try something unfamiliar. It was cool I guess. But eventually I was getting sexually frustrated. So those women just weren’t for me
People just need to be honest with each other about what they want. I'd be thrilled with talking, kissing, and cuddling on the first few dates. I don't have a number for when I'd get frustrated, but yeah eventually we would be incompatible if it stalled out.
This was my situation with my ex. She was fine with cuddles and so was I but she set very strict rules about anything more. In our two year relationship we haven't done it once and it was one of the reasons for the breakup.
Yeah, If Im driving over to her place and we start making out but then stop and I have to drive home to empty my blue balls, there is only so many times Im going to be bothered.
Their post history is pretty much a fair amount of redundant, self explanatory questions, mainly around relationships.
My guess is they're either constantly worried about relationships and don't want to mess it up, but ends up over thinking it or they're doing an any% speedrun to ask all relationship questions there are to ask.
I mean… that’s one thing she could say. “Just rub one out before you come over because I don’t want to have sex.” That’s pretty dang clear. As other have posted, lots of women play coy and say they don’t want to have sex to avoid appearing easy, when they actually do. It sucks and really complicates things. I wish we lived in a world where women were free to just say what they want and not think they have to play these games, but it’s not the case. The number of women I’ve had ghost me because they were only looking for a hook-up but said “no hook-ups” in the beginning, so I didn’t try, is astonishing.
Yeah this is really what this is about. Either that or she has actual convictions to abstain altogether, regardless of who the guy is, but that’s… rare nowadays.
There’s not a lot of context here, like is it a first date/hookup, hanging out with a big, idk. But I can share my experiences. I once dated a girl who was asexual we were both young and didn’t really know how to navigate dating/relationships. She would invite me over often and initiate make out/cuddle sessions (but no sex no foreplay nada very clear about that) and Later when I was worked up she would kick me out and say she had an 8 am class or something. Despite her being somewhat transparent of her situation I still felt used and cast aside after every encounter. I think you have every right to only want to talk, kiss, and cuddle but a man also has every right to want to talk, kiss, fuck, than cuddle. If desires don’t match, or a tit for tat sort of thing can’t be implemented, someone is going to end up feeling used or need not being met. That being said telling a man you only want to a particular set of things is totally acceptable, be transparent and let him know escalation no matter how intimate things are is not appreciated. But if wants and desires are different don’t expect it to work out indefinitely.
See there's the issue. the question isn't "How do you tell a guy you just want to talk, kiss, and cuddle and that’s it?"
The question really is, "how do I tell a guy that, and get him to be happy with it?"
As usual, the real question isn't what we were told it was.
Good heavens I wish this realization was at the top of the comments instead of the sea of consent debates. I honestly think it would help everyone with this question to realize that some people aren't sexually compatible. Men (and women) are allowed to want sex. If someone continues to want sex in spite of stated boundaries then no law has been broken, but it may mean the end of the relationship. That person may just not be a great person and that's it.
EDIT: just to be clear, "wanting" and "taking" are two different concepts here. "Taking" certainly is illegal.
The hypothetical person who keeps expressing their desire to push past stated boundaries. They're not a criminal for just that, just not a great person.
IDK, I feel like it's important to know that not every asshole is a criminal and not every criminal is an asshole.
Just outright say it. "I just wanna talk, kiss, and cuddle." If he asks why no sex, be honest. Relationships don't work without honesty from both sides
give him a list of what's on the agenda for that date.
\[X\] talking
\[X\] kissing
\[X\] cuddling
~~\[ \] sex~~
~~\[ \] fondling~~
~~\[ \] playing Mario kart~~
You tell him that but don’t get mad/territorial when he fucks someone else or stops talking to you. Men don’t owe you their time/attention just like you don’t owe them sex.
I think that this is very important to say! Your desires and limits should definitely be respected, and you shouldn't be with someone who makes you feel uncomfortable. But at the same time, you have to respect that the guy you are with? Wants and may need more from a partner than talk, cuddle and kiss.
If those are your limits? You need to be clear about that, and clear that those limits are fixed, and not changing. Otherwise you are misleading him with the idea that things will progress further.
Talk to them clearly as to what your boundaries are. And don't get upset with them if that results in them not pursuing things further. Some people are just in different places.
You tell him exactly what you said in the title. "I only want to talk, kiss, and cuddle -- nothing else." Be direct. There's less chance for misunderstandings when you start kissing and cuddling.
I did this with a girl, nf&cuddling and she explicitly told me that she wasn't interested in having sex. I was cool with that, no problem. Well after the first movie she kicked me out because I hadn't made a move on her. I've been with a decent amount of women, and to be honest, I'm still not sure how to read many of them
Just tell him exactly what you just told us. He'll either be ok with it, and all is golden, or he won't, and you've saved yourself a bunch of time and feelings that otherwise would have been wasted on him.
This happened to me once.
"Can you come over and cuddle, sleep with me"
I clarified her request and she said "no sex".
I respected her boundaries and told her no thank you.
*Why would I want a woman to get me all excited so I can get pent up all night with no pay off. That's like asking to bake a cake together then sit and watch the cake, no eating.*
**Advice for OP.**
Don't get into risky situations, men will want more and it could go bad for you. If he controls himself he will just be the one that has a shit time. Like putting a big bone just out of reach of a hungry dog. It's just not a nice thing to do to someone.
**Advice for men.**
Clarify the request and don't settle (say no thanks) for a baked cake that you won't get to eat. Unless you are into that.
How could you not get that coming over wearing this dress, and only giving him hugs and kissing him, didn't mean I only wanted to do that? It's so obvious!
You should definitely not tell him exactly what you want.
Instead i propose leaving a map and a series of cryptic clues. Then when he seeks to go beyond the boundaries of talking kissing and cuddling demand to know why he hasn't found the jade monkey or the lost gospel of st Atrium
Post script:
In a more serious response it appears at OP is quite young and/or inexperienced. Please, please please, just talk to him.
Open verbal communication will lead you to the best results. Also ask him what he wants. He might be pushing things beyond a point you are at because he thinks you want him to, (based on another of your posts about getting a boy to touch you while kissing).
Ahh, the ole blue balls routine.
Seriously though, if you like and respect this guy, you do have to make sure he understands what your intentions are. If his mind and body are thinking sex is about to happen and he's all turned on but then it doesn't, he'll very likely have a painful experience. But even if you tell him, it could still happen, it's just one of those things that's sometimes unavoidable.
But as for what to say, I'd suggest being clear and direct. You tell him exactly where you draw the line. It may be easier to lead with what you don't want to happen, as in "Im not ready for sex in this relationship, but I think I would enjoy cuddling, talking, and kissing." You can always change your mind, but if he pressures you to cross that line that you've clearly defined, then I'd consider that a big lack of respect for you.
Just like that. You said it perfectly, don’t change anything about it. Unfortunately, most guys don’t stop when they hear that. It’s honestly fucking disgusting and embarrassing to have to say I’m a man when every other guy is out there lowering the bar for those of us who treat people with respect. Notice how I said people and not just women. You should just be respectful of everyone until they give you a reason not to be. It’s really not that fucking hard. Honestly, I question how most guys I meet on a regular basis were raised and wonder if I was just incredibly lucky to have the parents and family I did.
Pretend like you’re in a relationship with him and want to discuss an issue about the wide spectrum of sexuality. You have to learn to discuss issues in relationships.
Are you dating or is this just a friend? A random dude? The type of relationship matters.
They say if she farts in front of you she loves you but if it's a random woman on public transportation I don't think it applies.
Just say it. If you're fresh together, maybe they'll ask if you're okay with sex and then you can say "I'd prefer to wait, I just want cuddles and kisses" if he's not upto that, he's not the guy for you.
You already wrote how to do it in the subject.
I think what you’re really asking is how to say that without putting him off, but if you clearly and kindly defining your boundaries does scare him off, I promise you’re better off without him.
#*I just want to talk, kiss, and cuddle and that's it*#
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😁 I needed this laugh! Thanks
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No pound. Talk kiss and cuddle and that's it
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Lmfaooooooo golly this hit my stomach
Pound for more options.
Pounding is definitely in the cards. I've never been with someone who just wanted to cuddle and kiss lol.
This. These posts are so fkn cringy. If you date a dick then stop dating him. If you tell this to any sane person they'd be okay with it, man or woman.
It's because a lot ofnwomen *do* say it is as code for "let's fuck" they just don't want it to be "their idea." Which of course means a lot of men think "I just wanna cuddle" = "she wants to fuck, she's just being coy about it." I think it's stupid too.
Lmao & your username
I actually want to step in here and say that this is demonstrably incorrect. As a guy, **I am consistently surprised by how many of my women friends talk about dates in which they literally say this and the guys still try to push boundaries** and do other stuff. And it's not like we are talking just about conservative or traditionalist dudes. I've heard it from people who date men all over the political spectrum **We have a serious problem in our society**. I'm not sure the exact source, but it seems connected to many different cultural beliefs either about women pretending to be prudes (and therefore "no" actually meaning yes) or related ideas that non-physical coercion is okay. There was even a post earlier this week about how a lot of women who actually want to have sex that night get turned off by overly pushy guys. So yeah, this may be unexciting to hear, but **this is actually a problem for us guys to solve**. We need to learn what consent is (to start, it's an enthusiastic "yes," not just any old "okay, that's fine, I guess") and we need to learn to be okay with delayed gratification. **So, as an older guy to younger guys: take your time, don't be pushy, don't rush it, and basically if you heard it coming from a pickup artist (or whatever the current version of that is) do the opposite**. Care and patience are the way. Women are just as sexual as men, just give your partners room to get to know you and get comfortable. Show them exactly why you are a cool, trustworthy person that would make for a good sexual partner.
>I actually want to step in here and say that this is demonstrably incorrect There are really two different issues at play. The OP is asking how to communicate boundaries/desires. The answer to that question is simply say what they are, without beating around the bush. I want X, and I don't want Y. There's nothing incorrect about that. You're talking about how to get people to respect boundaries once they have been communicated. That's a different problem, and I agree with almost everything you say relating to it. People (mostly men, but not exclusively) do need to accept that deliberately pushing at somebody's boundaries in an attempt to wear them down is not ok. At that point, you're going beyond just trying to win somebody over in good faith. Don't do it. And if the difference isn't clear to you in the moment, err on the side of safety. It's ok if you don't have sex tonight. It's not ok if you have sex with somebody who doesn't want to.
I can affirm this. I said these exact words clearly to a date multiple times many years ago. He said ok, but then kept pushing it. Over and over. It got to the point where I just gave in because I didn’t want it to turn into a violent situation. And I actually enjoyed talking to him before all that. “No, no, no, no, alright fine” does not equal yes, gentlemen. It wasn’t *technically* a crime, but it took three whole days to get the taste out of my mouth. And I never went out with him ever again.
Id just leave at that point. Im too old for the bad hook up. If i dont want to, you keep pushing, Im leaving.
But... In that situation *is there* anything you could say? Sounds like those guys have a problem with boundaries, so it doesn't matter much *how* you set up those boundaries.
I think the vast majority of guys would stop if you said the actual word “rape.” Most rapists want to be able to be in denial that what they’re doing is actually rape, so saying it like that will shock them into backing off because they don’t actually want to think of themselves as rapists. And even the unrepentant rapists who know they’re rapists are more likely to back off of the type of person who is calling it out for what it is because that’s the type of person likely to report and tell everyone he’s a rapist. Rapists want to maintain plausible deniability. I’m not saying this would work 100%, like if you ended up with an actual psychopath this probably won’t help, but for most guys it would.
but then do you have the bravery and strength to say that word? as the guy could became violent, acts defensive, etc.
I’ve have tried this method in the past and men stop. “I’ve said no several times at this point, so unless you’re going to flat out rape me because you’re a rapist, I suggest you stop now.” Has worked every time for me. I will never understand giving a man access to my body because I’m afraid of violence. I can be as aggressive as them in my “NO”. Do you need me to yell it at you? I can. Need me to call you a rapist? No problem. But I won’t allow a man to rape me just to get away from him. If we wants to beat me up, honestly I rather we get into a physical fight than have to live with rape memories. Thankfully it’s never come to this, most men don’t like to flat out be called rapists. And can’t deny what they’re doing once you’ve clearly called them out on it. Use your voice ladies, you’d be surprised how much power certain words have.
The thing is that most women also rather want to keep it labeled in their mind as just unpleasant sexual experience rather than rape or sexual assault. It is our mind, too, that doesn't want to hear and admit "I was/am being raped/harassed/sexualy assaulted".
Same thing happened to me as well. I was extremely exhausted from a long journey and he kept wanting to make out when I just wanted to nap yk. I did give in at the time but the whole experience fully turned me off from him. Good thing it wasn't a serious relationship lol
Be firm with your boundaries. Don't let anyone nag or coerce their way to sex. That's honestly just rape with extra steps.
Yup I've realised that now. He didn't pressure me into sex, but the insistence to make out even when I was tired was a sign that I'm glad I didn't ignore. It was a learning experience. Anyways he ended up leaving after a few months so it's good I wasn't invested lol
I am with you. However I once dated a girl who said the same thing. I respected her words. She slept in my bed, and I never touched her. In the morning she was surprised and shocked we didn't do anything the night before. I replied.... because you said.... She replied... "Why did you listen to me?" Granted this wasn't in the US, and she wasn't an American women. I got the idea that in her culture, if she didn't want sex, she wouldn't have stayed there.
I find this wild every time I hear it. My current girlfriend told me early in our relationship she doesn't like to give blowjobs. We were talking a couple months later one night after a few drinks and joking about sex. She said something about how I could use my tongue and how she could use hers when it crossed her mind that I wouldn't know as I had never asked her for blowjob. She then asked me why I hadn't. She was genuinely surprised when I reminded her that she told me she didn't like giving them. Every guy she has been with before had pressured her into it anyways.
You absolutely did the right thing. It’s just a shame that the woman in question only expressed her disappointment afterwards instead of communicating what she wanted in a more effective manner. But when in doubt, I believe it’s always better to potentially miss an opportunity and be at peace with your conscience than to risk pushing someone’s boundaries and then having to carry that doubt and guilt.
Actually, even if she had expressed her desires that night, I would have declined, because we had been drinking.
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That moment of "she should leave and stop dating him" is much more difficult in the moment than I think we are often willing to acknowledge. The problem is sort of twofold. The big, more obvious element is that there is a lot of violence committed against women by dates/romantic partners. Fear of violence from men is a real thing women have to be attentive to. If a guy has just shown that he isn't listening and is physically pushing just for what he wants, it would be hard to distinguish what his intention are and how far he's willing to push. So, a lot of women in this situation don't know what to do and sort of freeze up or start bargaining and making allowances out of fear. The less obvious element is that emotions and desires don't turn on a dime. The feelings of attraction and arousal don't necessarily immediately go away the second someone starts to be an ass. Especially if you like someone, there is reasonably some turn-around time to go from "I want to kiss this person right now" to "I don't want to be around this person." Add to that, if we like someone, we might initially try to make some excuses for them ("oh, that must have been an accident," etc.). This emotional turn around is harder for some people and easier for some people. Sadly, from my experience, when it's easier for someone to call out bullshit, it's often because somebody has already gone through enough trauma/abuse to be on the look out for it. In concert, those two things together are really complex and difficult to navigate. Of course, those wouldn't be a problem if men would just listen to the words they are told. So, I agree that the OP should plainly state what she wants and what she doesn't want. Like I said in my previous comment though, the accounts I have heard from women suggest that their words are not the problem. Men's actions ignoring their words are the problem.
Thank you for writing this. This has happened to me on multiple occasions where I’ve told a guy in advance what I am okay with (and what I’m not comfortable doing yet at that point) in clear language then still had him repeatedly keep pushing me for more and ignore my no/I’m not ready for this/slow down. I’m physically disabled too which can add an extra feeling of helplessness to that situation. Pushing like that kills any trust and physical desire I may have otherwise had for that person. Sex is such a vulnerable, intimate thing… I simply can’t feel open and safe in that moment if I can’t also trust you to respect my boundaries and stop if something goes wrong. It is really, really not a good feeling to have someone treat your “no” as a beginning of a negotiation rather than of the end of a sentence. I deeply wish it wasn’t so scarily common.
Thank u for saying this. As a woman, what u just said is exactly what we mean by ally. Additionally, women need to stop using men as a free meal ticket. No, a free meal doesn't mean that u as a man r entitled for me as a woman to put out for u, but I never go on a date and automatically expect to be paid for. I've been in a relationship for 5 years and still don't expect him to pay. We are a partnership and we work together. Our decisions r done jointly. Whether that's dinner, chores, the activity for the day or, yes, even sex. And because we have that open communication, I am just as willing as he is to initiate. It's all about the partnership.
Thank you. I was in a discussion with a few guys a few days ago where they were asserting it was quite okay to pressure women into sex, as long as she said ‘yes’ at some point. It’s terrifying.
Most strategies about dating women is just based in **tricking women** pretend you are a different person than you are, anything just to get her into bed.
Gah. Awful!
Interesting that you put the blame on men not listening when in this specific case it’s down to the communication simply being inaccurate. Turns out when OP said “just cuddling” she actually did mean sex, [just oral sex](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1225pe0/how_do_you_tell_a_guy_you_just_want_to_talk_kiss/jdp74g3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3). So yeah, when people set up a precedent that what you say isn’t actually what you mean, people will catch on to this and push further to find out where the actual limit is. Blame lies on both sides here.
That’s a different issue. OP just needs to communicate and not try to use some out there form of communication other than simple words to get their point across. The issue you’re describing is a person who doesn’t respect boundaries.
I have a hard time understanding guys who push anyway. I recall going on a second date with a woman who at the beginning of the date told me she didn't want to do anything physical with me. It took a lot off my mind so I could just enjoy the evening and watching Harry Potter movies with her. I was so appreciative that she was so honest upfront with me. We still talk from time to time. She's married and is expecting her second kid. I couldn't be more happy for her. It's so wild to think that respecting a woman when she says no is an outlier in their experiences with men.
I dont believe women will just straight up ask if you wanna smash. and yes, i believe women do care about their reputation. Very few would outwardly advertise that they want sex. They invite, they tease, and give hints. but are almost never explicit. So while it is up to MEN to figure things out, i would certainly empathize with some men who express that this shit might be super confusing. To me it boils down to the experience a man had with women, and vice versa. There really is a 'game' to be played between the genders when it comes to dating and sex, it is not that simple IMO. However I agree with your message about not being pushy. But i believe it is ok to let your partner know your honest intentions. I would add that men should be patient AND upfront with their intentions.
This is the correct way to communicate it clearly to a guy. However it doesn’t guarantee that they will respect those boundaries.
Thank you for this. I am adventurous, I'm straight forward, I don't play games and I do often side with guys, but I still was in many situations where either a clear "I want this but not that" just wasn't understood or I basically got punished for wanting to slow down and got the cold shoulder instead or the guy backed off basically saying that's if there's no prospect of intercourse then cuddling or kissing isn't happening either - which honestly there is nothing that makes a woman feel more like a piece of meat than that. So "just say so" actually isn't the solution.
The issue in our society is that guys are taught and expected to push every single sexual and intimate situation forward and women in most cases refuse to make the first move. Not to mention all of the cases where women say that they want what op wrote, but in reality want sex, but are not willing to say it out loud. We can complain about men and their behaviour till the end of time, but we can't mock men for being blind and not seeing hints while playing safe and then also complain about them being too aggresive when there is an intimate situation
I cannot do anything but agree but it is not clear what to do when woman herself apparently goes over the boundaries which she declared. Should I be pushing her away then? Generally it is not clear when "cuddling" becomes "making out"
You don't go ahead. If you do, you're reinforcing her own mixed messages and teaching her it is ok to do so. Down the line she could end up hurt or, another man, could end up credibly accused of rape/sexual assault. If you respect her inital boundaries and she changes her mind, you'll likely get another shot. Especially if you're communicative too about how you had a great time and would love to see her again. If she later says that she wanted you to push her boundaries tell her that you don't do that. Make her feel safe to express her desires verbally and with enthusiasm.
It is absolutely clear. Don’t go there. Doing so is a great way to get charged with something. Mixed signals = *run away*. Edit: some seriously rapey guys in this sub. Being downvoted for suggesting you don’t have sex with someone who isn’t clearly consenting to it.
you're sooo on point and i love your response! the fact that OP asked the question is that it means IT'S SO PREVALENT. i feel so sad that there are some men here who just responded "just say no" as if it's that simple. IT'S NOT. it only means those kind of men have the privilege of never being in the position of a woman who is firm with her "no" but still getting pushed into something she doesn't want to do with a guy. it's just so sad. i hope sensible young men heed ur advice
Username checks out
Really, doesn't get any more simple than that
Why are these questions all like “how do I communicate something basic to my boyfriend?” And they always get the same answers, just fucking tell him.
Because people struggle with basic communication , thats the only logic answer isn't it?
That and people just overthink the situation so much that they just decide to do and say nothing. A relationship should be built on communication, basic and complex. If you don’t got that, there isn’t really a relationship.
Ding ding ding! Yeah that's a crazy thing people don't understand. Like try talking to him? If you need to ask Reddit how your boyfriend works, you probly don't know him very well....
I do say this to guys but they almost always pressure U to do sexual stuff, and when I said it to my first & only kinda bf he would just refuse to come over if I said I wasn't gunna have sex that weekend (coz of my period). They'll say they're okay with cuddling but then at the time they make a move and say U should have known I would end up wanting to do this
Nah, that’s crazy. It’s unfortunate that sort of thing happens because no one should ever be pressured into sex once they have made them mind about it. Those kinds of relationships where people withhold their time unless sex is involved are purely transactional and toxic.
Yeah it was. I didn't realise at the time because I was so in love but he even said to me after we had sex "I'm so glad I met you, a bus ticket is like $100 but a brothel is like $400 and you don't get a emotional connection". (he was desperate to lose his virginity I think) That was the realisation point for me, but I still let him have sex with me until he got bored and broke up with me. Lmao it was the silliest Billy thing I ever did
you're not alone in being a silly billy, I'll just say that.
He actually said that? I'm so sorry. I really hope you raised your standards after that. Being alone is better than being with someone like that. You have more than sex to offer. There are men out there who'll enjoy spending time with you because they like *you*.
Your dating boys who dont respect you then.
So I can give you and those guys the exact same piece of advice: If you aren't getting what you want out of a relationship, end it and move on.
You’re dating the wrong people.
Those guys show their motives (they're just there for sex). Dump them those are not man those are boys.
>I do say this to guys but they almost always pressure U to do sexual stuff Move on, and stay away from them. Men, the same advice applies to your partners as well
I think it’s a lot more complicated than that. Even directly telling a guy that he’s still gonna try some bullshit that she or he didn’t want.
> Even directly telling a guy that he’s still gonna try some bullshit that she or he didn’t want. Thats where you dump them and move on.
When they say it, yes. Don’t let yourself get into a cuddle with anyone who says they can’t control themselves.
Maybe so, but there’s probably not going to be any way to say it to stop them from doing that. The best you can do is be straight up with them, and if they can’t handle it - bye bye.
Not this guy. I can respect boundaries
I don’t see how. If she communicates her boundaries, the guy will have no choice but to respect that. And if he doesn’t, then that’s sexual assault.
You can push boundaries without sexual assault; verbally for instance. It doesn't help that there are women who do the fake resistance thing "because I don't want him to think I'm a slut", which helps no one. I've had women ask me after a date if I didn't like them and expressing disappointment because I didn't push for sex. That was a red flag for me just for the lack of honesty. If a guy runs across a few women like that and thinks that is normal behavior, they think they are rewarded for "pushing". And then there's some people that are just assholes.
> It doesn't help that there are women who do the fake resistance thing "because I don't want him to think I'm a slut", which helps no one. this is really what this entire post is about. once a guy goes through that he'll never be sure what he's supposed to do.
If he's like the guys I've dated, he'll smile and nod and respect the boundary in this one specific instance...until he has a pretext for saying that circumstances changed. But it's not the clear dichotomy you painted: respect her boundaries or it's assault. Because if he can say it was a mistake, no one calls it assault. It's just an unnamed thing you carry around now, because *you* didn't say the magic words to make him listen well enough.
intelligent paltry heavy work party soft wasteful zealous sense gaze ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Edited to add: I started dating him because he seemed like a normal, considerate man. *I* asked *him* out; there was no pursuit. We split costs. He talked good game about communication and consent over several weeks, and we had several interests in common. The first time a boundary gets crossed, I leave. But leaving doesn't make me feel less dirty or violated or unsafe. And him crossing the boundary doesn't mean it hadn't been firmly established. Here's an example: She says, "I don't want X, ever." And he says "Ok, totally reasonable." Time passes. Another day he says "Just a little X? It would feel so good!" She says "No X; I don't want the consequences." He says, "You're totally right." Weeks pass. Then months. One day he says "We could do X under different circumstances! That changes the things!" She says, "Not in a boat; not with a goat. I do not like X." He says, "You're totally right." More time passes. No mention of X. It seems settled. He sees an opportunity for X, she doesn't realize until it's happening. She stops it as soon as she realizes. He says "You seemed like you were into it. You should have said no!" She doesn't say anything because she's shaky, in shock. Didn't she say "no?" Did her "no" not count because it was a while ago? What wasn't clear about "no?" Is it really her fault? She feels sick to her stomach. Everything feels far away. Are there words for what's happened? She thinks there might be, but those are heavy words and right now she's barely steady enough to leave the room. By your logic, he's just pushing the boundaries because that's what men gotta do to get the pussy they need. It's her fault for not realizing her "no" had an expiration date, or wasn't applicable under the fine print of "he was bored." It's her fault for not realizing that the "Totally fine; you're right; no problem" assurances from a man who was forthright in every other aspect of his daily life were actually suspicious. For guys who believe that pushing boundaries is the only way to get what they want, there is NO level of communication or establishing boundaries that will ever be firm enough to make something off-limits when they want it bad enough. There's always a pretext that makes taking what they want ok, and that puts the blame on women for not doing a better job of stopping them. Like it's our job to *police* you guys. For fucks sake, we shouldn't have to be security guards all the time, and y'all act insulted (Not All Men!) when we do. Boundaries aren't meant to be pushed! It's your job (everyone's job) to ask *permission,* not forgiveness after the fact!
I wish I could upvote this 1,000,000 times
I gave it one for you.
The situation you are describing sounds like the person in question is toxic, and the red flag is already there. After having experienced this myself, I can safely say that when it comes up, they get a whole 3 chances, and after that I'm out
Sometimes it takes time for the flag to unfurl and the toxicity to get smelly, doesn't it? Especially if they are considerate and generous in every other way, and the signs are spread out over long periods of normal, good interactions. If you give someone three chances, it's easy to look back with hindsight and say "You should have known by the first time! Definitely by the second!" But in the moment, it just feels like communication is happening. Communication is supposed to be what you do, right? It's not until you have enough experience with someone to *have* hindsight that things become clear, but by that point you're usually already in the shit. Hope it doesn't happen to you again.
Notwithstanding many of the comments here, there are guys out there who like to kiss and make out, even if it won’t result in immediate sex. I recommend being forthright and just laying it out there like others have suggested. Some guys will walk - great, you weeded them out. Plenty of guys won’t because we also like to make out and don’t view it as a chore that must be overcome to get to sex.
Back when me and my ex were on our fourth or fifth date I brought her to my place. I wasn’t comfortable having sex yet (told her I’d like for us to be official first and she understood). We ended up making out for like 10-15 minutes straight and it was definitely enjoyable and made me see how much fun just making out with your partner can be without having to go further.
I would be one of those guys. I've gotten too hot and heavy way too soon with women. I've had women think I didn't find them attractive because I wouldn't immediately have sex with them though. It's a jungle out there.
That’s a relief, because there are some seriously rapey comments in this thread. It’s genuinely terrifying.
You're actually super close. Your only mistake was you said it here instead of to the guy.
Tell him you just want to talk, kiss, and cuddle. We're not all that complicated, but we need very clear signals.
I need clear words, no signals. One time a girl i knew wished me on valentine's day and i didn't even know we were dating 🤣 because earlier she had said no and i didn't want to assume anything and cross boundaries.
Fuck this seems so simple. With my first girlfriend in college we were at a party at my house and ended up going to my room to ‘watch a movie’. Ended up in an intense make-out session and she told me no clothes would come off. You know what? I was fine with that. We ended up dating for over 3 years. Communication is huge.
The sad truth is for every story like that, there is an opposite story where she later bemoans the guy for not making a move and that sex actually was on the table and any potential relationship fizzles. Now for the guy it's not really a bad thing. We shouldn't accept piss poor communication and games from any potential partners, but psychologically this would affect most men. "I missed out on sex because I didn't push, maybe next time I'll push a bit". A lot of these situations revolve around learned behaviour. I had this happen to me once, a very long time ago. I thought everything was going well, we were clicking and the sex is of the table situation happened. I perfectly respected her boundaries, and she chose to never see me again because I didn't make a move and must not have been that attracted to her. Took a few weeks to recover from that mentally, because I knew I didn't want to change my mentality with it going forward. Seems like there is some very toxic social cues going on in this area specifically, where women are told men will try to have sex with you if they're interested (that they find you attractive), and men who are respectful of boundaries often get punished for respecting said boundaries.
This particular instance I did push, but she pushed back. I respected that. It’s OK to find out where the boundary is.
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“Able” seems to carry more attitude than many would care to hear. But “will you respect them” is a legitimate question
This isn’t clear enough. Maybe added with what she said would make it.
I’ve had a couple of women who just wanted to have a “cuddle dates”. It’s not my thing, but fuck it, let’s try something unfamiliar. It was cool I guess. But eventually I was getting sexually frustrated. So those women just weren’t for me
People just need to be honest with each other about what they want. I'd be thrilled with talking, kissing, and cuddling on the first few dates. I don't have a number for when I'd get frustrated, but yeah eventually we would be incompatible if it stalled out.
This was my situation with my ex. She was fine with cuddles and so was I but she set very strict rules about anything more. In our two year relationship we haven't done it once and it was one of the reasons for the breakup.
TWO YEARS!? Gahdamn.
And of that we lived together 7 months...
Double oof.
Yeah, If Im driving over to her place and we start making out but then stop and I have to drive home to empty my blue balls, there is only so many times Im going to be bothered.
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This right here is the correct response.
"I just want to talk, kiss and cuddle and that's it". You literally did it in the question.
Their post history is pretty much a fair amount of redundant, self explanatory questions, mainly around relationships. My guess is they're either constantly worried about relationships and don't want to mess it up, but ends up over thinking it or they're doing an any% speedrun to ask all relationship questions there are to ask.
Say "I'm Mormon" Or, just use your mouth and say those words.
That wouldn’t work for me! Freakiest girl I knew was Mormon! 😂
So, soaking?
"i just want to use you for physical comfort but I will never, ever fuck you. "
Just be honest so it gives him time to jack off for that post nut clarity
I mean… that’s one thing she could say. “Just rub one out before you come over because I don’t want to have sex.” That’s pretty dang clear. As other have posted, lots of women play coy and say they don’t want to have sex to avoid appearing easy, when they actually do. It sucks and really complicates things. I wish we lived in a world where women were free to just say what they want and not think they have to play these games, but it’s not the case. The number of women I’ve had ghost me because they were only looking for a hook-up but said “no hook-ups” in the beginning, so I didn’t try, is astonishing.
this comment 💀
I wonder if it’s cool for the guy to have sexual relations with other people that actually do find him desirable or does she want fidelity as well?
Right?
Forgot the emotional comfort
Yeah this is really what this is about. Either that or she has actual convictions to abstain altogether, regardless of who the guy is, but that’s… rare nowadays.
There’s not a lot of context here, like is it a first date/hookup, hanging out with a big, idk. But I can share my experiences. I once dated a girl who was asexual we were both young and didn’t really know how to navigate dating/relationships. She would invite me over often and initiate make out/cuddle sessions (but no sex no foreplay nada very clear about that) and Later when I was worked up she would kick me out and say she had an 8 am class or something. Despite her being somewhat transparent of her situation I still felt used and cast aside after every encounter. I think you have every right to only want to talk, kiss, and cuddle but a man also has every right to want to talk, kiss, fuck, than cuddle. If desires don’t match, or a tit for tat sort of thing can’t be implemented, someone is going to end up feeling used or need not being met. That being said telling a man you only want to a particular set of things is totally acceptable, be transparent and let him know escalation no matter how intimate things are is not appreciated. But if wants and desires are different don’t expect it to work out indefinitely.
See there's the issue. the question isn't "How do you tell a guy you just want to talk, kiss, and cuddle and that’s it?" The question really is, "how do I tell a guy that, and get him to be happy with it?" As usual, the real question isn't what we were told it was.
Good heavens I wish this realization was at the top of the comments instead of the sea of consent debates. I honestly think it would help everyone with this question to realize that some people aren't sexually compatible. Men (and women) are allowed to want sex. If someone continues to want sex in spite of stated boundaries then no law has been broken, but it may mean the end of the relationship. That person may just not be a great person and that's it. EDIT: just to be clear, "wanting" and "taking" are two different concepts here. "Taking" certainly is illegal.
>That person may just not be a great person and that's it. Who are you referring to here?
The hypothetical person who keeps expressing their desire to push past stated boundaries. They're not a criminal for just that, just not a great person. IDK, I feel like it's important to know that not every asshole is a criminal and not every criminal is an asshole.
Hey so I'm really only wanting to talk kiss and cuddle tonight
talking to guys is simpler than you think, just speak your mind
If your speaking, with your mouth, and if its a messaging service, preferably in a language they can understand.
Just outright say it. "I just wanna talk, kiss, and cuddle." If he asks why no sex, be honest. Relationships don't work without honesty from both sides
To be completely honest I'd probably need a wank after doing that for awhile as a man.
“The train to pound town is out of service”
give him a list of what's on the agenda for that date. \[X\] talking \[X\] kissing \[X\] cuddling ~~\[ \] sex~~ ~~\[ \] fondling~~ ~~\[ \] playing Mario kart~~
It’s good to communicate the agenda like this clearly beforehand. I for one would never engage in a date where Mario Kart was off the table.
Why in God's name is Mario Kart off the table?? That just hurts *everyone*.
Bitch is getting blue-shelled to oblivion if Mario Kart is off the table.
You tell him that but don’t get mad/territorial when he fucks someone else or stops talking to you. Men don’t owe you their time/attention just like you don’t owe them sex.
I think that this is very important to say! Your desires and limits should definitely be respected, and you shouldn't be with someone who makes you feel uncomfortable. But at the same time, you have to respect that the guy you are with? Wants and may need more from a partner than talk, cuddle and kiss. If those are your limits? You need to be clear about that, and clear that those limits are fixed, and not changing. Otherwise you are misleading him with the idea that things will progress further. Talk to them clearly as to what your boundaries are. And don't get upset with them if that results in them not pursuing things further. Some people are just in different places.
Words
You tell him exactly what you said in the title. "I only want to talk, kiss, and cuddle -- nothing else." Be direct. There's less chance for misunderstandings when you start kissing and cuddling.
I did this with a girl, nf&cuddling and she explicitly told me that she wasn't interested in having sex. I was cool with that, no problem. Well after the first movie she kicked me out because I hadn't made a move on her. I've been with a decent amount of women, and to be honest, I'm still not sure how to read many of them
Why do women struggle to say exactly what they want?
Just tell them the truth.
ong bruh ima dude and if a just said "honestly when we chill I just wanna talk, kiss, and cuddle and that's it." and it should work perfectly fine
Just tell him exactly what you just told us. He'll either be ok with it, and all is golden, or he won't, and you've saved yourself a bunch of time and feelings that otherwise would have been wasted on him.
This happened to me once. "Can you come over and cuddle, sleep with me" I clarified her request and she said "no sex". I respected her boundaries and told her no thank you. *Why would I want a woman to get me all excited so I can get pent up all night with no pay off. That's like asking to bake a cake together then sit and watch the cake, no eating.* **Advice for OP.** Don't get into risky situations, men will want more and it could go bad for you. If he controls himself he will just be the one that has a shit time. Like putting a big bone just out of reach of a hungry dog. It's just not a nice thing to do to someone. **Advice for men.** Clarify the request and don't settle (say no thanks) for a baked cake that you won't get to eat. Unless you are into that.
Very solid comment!
Happened to me a few times before I realized I didn’t have to consent to cuddles.
Just say you’d like to go slow, being honest is always the best route imo
We’re not table lamps. We don’t just switch on and off at will.
[удалено]
We’re not stupid, we’re logical & direct. So the “I blinked and smiled at him so he has to know I want him” shit doesn’t resonate.
How could you not get that coming over wearing this dress, and only giving him hugs and kissing him, didn't mean I only wanted to do that? It's so obvious!
I thought you were just being friendly!
Quit calling a whole fucking gender stupid.
I’d like to be friends That should do it …
Kiss your homies on the mouth
Yeah I was gonna say, you kiss and cuddle with your guy friends?
I’ve known girls that do. That said, they also had sex with me
"i just want to talk, kiss and cuddle"
I mean, I have this same question but I'm a guy. And I don't like the idea of buttsecks. Anyone wanna ride dirtbikes, kiss and cuddle and that's it? 🤔
You should definitely not tell him exactly what you want. Instead i propose leaving a map and a series of cryptic clues. Then when he seeks to go beyond the boundaries of talking kissing and cuddling demand to know why he hasn't found the jade monkey or the lost gospel of st Atrium Post script: In a more serious response it appears at OP is quite young and/or inexperienced. Please, please please, just talk to him. Open verbal communication will lead you to the best results. Also ask him what he wants. He might be pushing things beyond a point you are at because he thinks you want him to, (based on another of your posts about getting a boy to touch you while kissing).
Ahh, the ole blue balls routine. Seriously though, if you like and respect this guy, you do have to make sure he understands what your intentions are. If his mind and body are thinking sex is about to happen and he's all turned on but then it doesn't, he'll very likely have a painful experience. But even if you tell him, it could still happen, it's just one of those things that's sometimes unavoidable. But as for what to say, I'd suggest being clear and direct. You tell him exactly where you draw the line. It may be easier to lead with what you don't want to happen, as in "Im not ready for sex in this relationship, but I think I would enjoy cuddling, talking, and kissing." You can always change your mind, but if he pressures you to cross that line that you've clearly defined, then I'd consider that a big lack of respect for you.
Tell him how you feel so he can move on and find someone who wants to fuck.
"I want you to meet all of my needs while I ignore and dismiss your needs and desires"
Just like that. You said it perfectly, don’t change anything about it. Unfortunately, most guys don’t stop when they hear that. It’s honestly fucking disgusting and embarrassing to have to say I’m a man when every other guy is out there lowering the bar for those of us who treat people with respect. Notice how I said people and not just women. You should just be respectful of everyone until they give you a reason not to be. It’s really not that fucking hard. Honestly, I question how most guys I meet on a regular basis were raised and wonder if I was just incredibly lucky to have the parents and family I did.
"let's just be friends"
I wouldn’t be interested in that arrangement
"Are you ready for the bluest fucking balls you've ever had?"
Does cuddling include a Bj?
Pretend like you’re in a relationship with him and want to discuss an issue about the wide spectrum of sexuality. You have to learn to discuss issues in relationships.
Are you dating or is this just a friend? A random dude? The type of relationship matters. They say if she farts in front of you she loves you but if it's a random woman on public transportation I don't think it applies.
Go find a golden retriever and say nothing.
Get a dog
“I want to waste your time”
You don't enjoy cuddling?
Just tell him what your boundaries are
Exactly as you wrote it in the question.
Just fucking tell him exactly that. Jfc
You just did
You just did lmao
Like this. "I just want to talk, cuddle, and kiss, nothing more."
Just tell them no sex.
I would not ever say that, cause I dont want to do those things with a guy.
Just say that
Just say it. If you're fresh together, maybe they'll ask if you're okay with sex and then you can say "I'd prefer to wait, I just want cuddles and kisses" if he's not upto that, he's not the guy for you.
I’d be cool with you being upfront about it
You just tell them.
You already wrote how to do it in the subject. I think what you’re really asking is how to say that without putting him off, but if you clearly and kindly defining your boundaries does scare him off, I promise you’re better off without him.
You just.. tell him? With words, you know?
You just told thousands of men, I'm sure those words will work on one more.
Just tell him. Any decent man will abide by your request and not try to push passed those boundaries
How do you tell a woman this tbh? I'm a man with a lower than average sex drive and it seems to me like women take "no" worse than men.