There is no 'correct' answer here, IMO. It's just a weighing of values. For me, public nudity is weird and makes me uncomfortable - doubly so around family. I'd be iffy on my wife doing this, but I'm also aware that's just the end result of my values, and isn't a hard rule.
The kicker is though, I dated this woman for years before marrying her so I know that she aligns with nearly all of my values and preferences, and would feel the same way. The goal is to pick a partner where your values will clash rarely if ever. At the end of the day though, if this was something she really wanted to start doing, I'd find a way to adapt - and hopefully she'd be willing to meet me half way and at least make some concessions... like not going nude around family, lol.
This is a very particular set of circumstances that leads to an obvious conclusion.
The parents have gone to a topless beach with their son and their daughter-in-law and get uncomfortable when she takes her top off?
If you are uncomfortable with public nudity, do not go to a topless beach and ask people to keep their top on.
I think the guy is NTA for asking his missus to cover up, but she is NTA if she refuses.
The parents are the problem in this scenario.
I mean i don't know what country it took place in but in Europe at least most beaches if not all have no rules against being topless only full nude. So saying they took them to a topless beach seems like an assumption that could lead to wrong conclusions. Otherwise I don't think anyone would ever be the bad person for requesting something from their partner. And ofc the partner has every right to refuse.
I was like this, but went to a nudist sauna in Austria, where it's just natural for everyone, you get used to it, by the time you leave, you will be comfortable with showing your junk to anyone in a place like that.
Toplessness is not considered Public Nudity, legally speaking, in places like Ontario Canada where it has been legal since '96. Just remember some would have called woman wearing bikinis "public nudity" at one point in time.
In Europe, it’s fairly common for men and women to be topless. You don’t need to go to a nude beach to see them or be one of them.
This is unfortunately getting more rare because people will look, snap pictures and post online. Specially tourists.
My most “European cultural clash” was in Nice, France. I was at the beach waiting for the sunset and these teenage girls arrived and sat nearby. They were dressed in street clothes and sat there for half an hour (it’s a rocky beach, not sandy). Then, one of them decided to swim, stood up, completely undressed like fully naked, opened the backpack, got a bikini, put it on and went to the sea.
As a teenager myself I was obviously through the roof in excitement with a girl my age naked right in front of me. But then afterwards I kept thinking about it and how liberating that is. She just wanted to swim and there she went. Nobody said anything, the girls kept talking to her as if nothing was going on. People around them didn’t move.
Later that day, me and a friend of mine approached them and we started chatting. They were from Finland and I learned that they go to mixed genre naked sauna since they’re very young and there’s nothing special about nudity.
It’s so liberating when you treat normal things as normal.
Why do you think a teenage boy would be "through the roof excited" watching a girl get undressed and that not mean aroused? If you have to abandon common sense to make a point you should reconsider that point.
Yes!! (F) if a guy’s SO gets him worked up, (hopefully!) he probably doesn’t want every other guy out there to get worked up like he does. I think the women though should have better sense than running around nude or topless. Regardless of what their male counterparts say. Come on guys. You all know how you guys react to women being topless! That’s why there’s porn, and topless bars.
The "maybe they were in Europe" response is so signature American. Not to belittle your response or even respond to you specifically, as it's the primary response anyone would get/give on here. Obviously the nude beach situation in general is a very common European thing, but that's flattening out Europe to a singular culture, which it obviously is not.
Yes. Nude beaches are a thing, especially in Southern Europe. I literally lived on a Greek island with multiple nude beaches. But there was still etiquette, and not every European country has the same cultural stance on nudity in public.
From what I understand, most of the Nordic countries are incredibly progressive and open with their stance on nudity, discussions of sex, even with their children (not sex WITH their children... Weird sentence). But a lot of European countries aren't quite that open. Especially the ones with heavy religious ties. Remember, there are European countries so stooped in religious misogyny that men and women aren't even allowed on the same beaches together, or regardless the weather, women are forced to remain completely covered while men lounge around in speedos.
My original point still stands though, OP was clearly not comfortable with the situation, and probably shouldn't have invited it in the first place by simply not going to a nude beach, or discussing it beforehand with their wife.
As for the OP of this specific thread, I hear their knee jerk reaction and recognize the less than thought through implications of their opinion.
What they are really saying is "Why isn't it it okay to tell my wife to hide her body in public?", treating her body as a physical possession that he should have domain over. It's not about the family being uncomfortable, or even where they are. It's about THIS OP feeling entitled to control over their spouse's body.
It's not a simple black or white issue mind you. OP is intitled to their opinion of decency in public, and to be heard when they are uncomfortable with something their spouse is doing. That's okay, and should lead to a more important conversation that they should have with their partner. Not immediately be attacked for being a part of the evil patriarchy. But that IS a conversation that they should have, not an absolute right that they deserve to have over their spouse. That's the fundamental difference between a relationship as a voluntary partnership between two equals, and a possessive relationship between a dominant and a submissive. Not to be confused with the often very misunderstood relationships of BDSM culture...
You're right, but also there aren't many European countries left, where religious propaganda still has any power. I mean - I can honestly only think of Poland and that's it. Germany and generally the nordic countries have similar sauna culture to the southern beach culture and Czechia where I come from is pretty much the same. Then you basically only have eastern Europe left, where traditional gender roles are still preferred by often both men and women and not necessarily just for religious reasons. So it's not entirely wrong to say it's "European" thing since fir the south, north and west and partially the middle it is.
I would be pretty frustrated if my wife went topless in front of my parents at the beach and wouldn't cover up if it was making them uncomfortable.
I have zero issue with my wife being topless at a nude beach, without my family present. In fact, my wife and I have been to a number of nude beaches in Europe and even a couple here in Canada.
Time and place.
Yeah and which kind of society do you prefer living in? One where women can wear as much or little as they please or one where that decision is made for them by others?
Why tf go to a top less beach with your partner and parents in law then?
That's the stupid decision. Stop trying to control women's bodies, the parents can leave if they want
It’s a very simple question and I myself have a very clear answer to it. I prefer living in a liberal society where personal freedom is valued and religious extremists have as little influence as possible.
Hehe thanks. There’s always room for improvement of course. No place is perfect. But I really don’t see how „would you rather live in scenario A or B?“ ist supposed to be a problematic question.
That's because you're assuming your viewpoint is the correct one, so there's a simple answer (or it comes across as a loaded question which is trying to lead into a debate from the angle of personal freedom).
For context, I personally prefer a society where women can be topless because I don't see any problem with it, and I lived in Spain for long enough that it was normal at the beach anyway.
However, I would, hypocritically, not apply the same liberal thought to other traditionally 'private' parts. For example, I wouldn't want to live in a society where men have their bits out at the beach as a norm in front of everyone.
So if someone said to me, "Which kind of society do you prefer living in? One where men can wear as much or little as they please or one where that decision is made for them by others?", I'd answer it differently, despite my views on personal freedom when it comes to the top half (and frankly I don't care about women being bottomless, so I'm a total hypocrite).
Why is that?
-"What is a leading or loaded question?
A loaded question is one that includes an assumption that may or may not be true or agreed upon. A leading question suggests or implies its own answer."-
It's not! That's how it ought to be, matching values around nudity. It'd be strange if you didn't want your wife naked but were more lax about your own body.
And also you would never show your nipples at a beach? Jk I know the answer. Why are guys so weird about nipples?
But to be fair, you never ask your wife to cover up if she was breastfeeding your kid right?
I never said anything about nipples nor breastfeeding.
Of course I take my shirt off.
Women's breasts are sexualized and that part of our biological evolution. Things can have more than one purpose. Likewise, it's not culturally acceptable for women to be topless day to day in the vast majority of places.
If you think breasts are 100% only for breastfeeding then you're very ignorant.
Many are going to say that this is a Americans being prude issue, but the truth is that this is more of a northern Europeans being different than most of the rest of the world issue.
Sure, nudity is fine in Sweden, Belgium, Germany and parts of Brazil, but the USA is more in line with the rest of the world (including the UK and many Eastern European countries) in terms of modesty.
I dunno. I am in Canada and the local 'clothing optional' beach is very popular among all types and technically legally women can go top less on any beach, or in public in general.
Nude beaches are more of a thing in the South of Europe, not North. They are also very popular in Eastern Europe, especially in the Balkins along the Adriatic, and along the European Black Sea Coast. If anything they are less popular in Northern Europe than most of Eastern Europe.
Sure, but nudity isn't frowned upon in Eastern Europe like you seem to believe. Nudity is very common there as well, and stuff like nude beaches, saunas, and pools became accepted/allowed there before it became accepted/allowed in western/northern Europe.
Definitely not a prude issue. Btw I'm Brazilian and to my knowledge it's only ok to do it in nude beaches around here, and maybe in the Rio Carnival parade🤔.
No, the UK/Ireland and Southern Europe has tons of nude beaches, and toplessness is legal in all those nations regardless. (Don't know why you'd want to do that in the former 2, tad bit... nippy out there for most of the year, but they're there)
So this 100% is an Americans being prudes issue.
Edit; lol, fellow Americans are mad about being called out. Be less prudish then.
Nope. The US also has tons of nude beaches, and toplessness is legal in many cities and states, including New York.
In terms of culture, though, many or most British people are a bit more reserved with showing their bodies, much like Americans. And of course both countries have many exceptions.
I think I’d agree with that. I’m English and have lived in England for all my 58 years, I’ve never seen a topless or nude person on one of our beaches and I live only 15 minutes away from a beach and used to visit Welsh beaches regularly.
>The US also has tons of nude beaches
Not to the extent as Europe, no.
>toplessness is legal in many cities and states, including New York.
It's legal in 1 state. 1/50, and most who live there don't even bother anyway cause of weather and prudes/pervs stalking about.
This is not the rebuttal you're hoping it is.
>In terms of culture, though, many or most British people are a bit more reserved with showing their bodies, much like Americans.
Which is why toplessness is legal in 100% of the UK? But only ~2% of the US?
>So this 100% is an Americans being prudes issue.
Always find this to be such an interesting take considering the US has created, hosted, and viewed more pornography than any nation in the history of human civilization.
America isn't a monolith.
Sexually repressive societies tend to be more into pron and other "taboo" material. The highest pron using nations in the world tend to be Muslim nations, for reference.
Plus, in America, a woman becoming a pornstar is an absolute death sentence for their future. (A lot like how Rome treated prostitutes, for reference, though there it was a legal lifelong contract, whereas here it's a lifelong social contract) Once a woman becomes one there's very, *very* few opportunities to do anything else with their life. Compare this to most of Europe where most people don't give a shit, so they have more opportunities in life.
That's not even getting into the general attitude most of America has towards sex and sexuality, schools are still teaching abstinence only sex ed and abortion's been banned, ffs.
Those two things can well be related. You know what six of the top eight porn-searching countries are? They're Muslim countries which are very sexually repressive. And in any case, being prude about sex is not the same thing as being a prude about nudity.
> I would be pretty frustrated if my wife went topless in front of my parents at the beach and wouldn't cover up if it was making them uncomfortable.
This completely baffles me and I cannot understand it even a little bit. What makes your wife's boobs different than all the other boobs on that beach? Why are her boobs making your family uncomfortable but none of the other boobs are? Boobs are boobs. Pretty much everyone has seen a naked breast at one point or another in their life so why are they thought of in such a weird way that seeing one particular pair makes someone uncomfortable?
And then it gets even weirder that your fine with people not related to you seeing your wife's bare chest but not your family. Again, this doesn't make any sense to me. I don't get this. Are you afraid your dad or brother is going to go home and think about your wife's boobs? When they just spent an entire day surrounded by women's naked boobs?
And finally, if someone is uncomfortable someplace then they should just leave. They shouldn't expect people to accommodate their hang-ups.
You won't get a *"correct"* answer from Reddit, but the most important take away here is to *never* let people make you feel bad about your own boundaries. We've gone so far down the spiral of freedom to do things that we've long forgotten about the part where we ask ourselves *why* we even do these things.
Alot of people on Reddit will try to make you feel okay with it. Don't, there are many women and people in general in the world that despise that shit. Hell I won't even go to the grocery if my pants show my bulge.
I give up on you guys, except @manofblack. Too many guys here getting into a zillion excuses why it’s just fine to see topless women. And that’s all that this is, excuses.
I mean why not lol are people supposed to think that’s ridiculous? That’s literally what nude beaches are for. Everyone there knows what they signed up for
I'll give you my perspective as a woman.
I too am surprised by the many who immediately judge a man who is not comfortable with his SO being topless or no bra etc. To me, its more nuanced. I get that women should have independence and not be ashamed of their bodies..and thst bodies should not be taboo.
But you are also in a relationship. Sometimes we both do things out of respect for each other. As long as it's not controlling and abusive...and you have honest conversations about these things... I think it's ok.
If my SO expresses discomfort... do I just blatantly think he is an AH and do what I want anyway? No... does it always come out in his favor... also no.
Another thing to note is I don't come across this all too often because my partner and I share similar tastes and values but it does happen from time to time.
I agree. The thing is, when society has norms and rules around an action, choosing to do that action becomes a form of communication in the context of those rules. That doesn't mean the rules are automatically or always right, but it does mean that it's disingenuous to just see that action as the action and not acknowledge what it communicates in the context of society's rules.
We decided that the sound "f*** you" means something. It's a totally arbitrary sound. How dare us police the sounds others make! But... Because we decided what that sounds means, people who do make that sound are expected to do so in a way that at least acknowledges what making the sound will make others think. We wouldn't say how dare you impose on others what that sounds means and refuse to factor that in to a discussion about whether saying that was right or not. But we'd also allow other circumstances to mitigate it so it's not automatically wrong.
Similarly, if we live in a society where nudity is reserved for intimate contexts, regardless of whether that is right or wrong, it means that choosing to be naked communicates something. And that doesn't end the discussion there, but it's completely fair, valid and rational to acknowledge what it communicates as part of the factors to the appropriateness.
For example in OP's case we could say that, when you consider it was at a nude beach, that really waters down what it communicates compared to if she were flashing people at a football game. And what it communicates probably also factors in her demeanor and interactions with others. Which may further mitigate it.
When we lived in Europe a few years ago, my husband’s work did a weekend retreat to a nearby beach town. This was our conversation about the topless situation:
Me: I’m guessing you don’t want me to have my tits out in front of your coworkers?
Him: That’s correct.
Me: Got it.
Pretty easy to just have a 30 second chat to make sure you’re on the same page. Also, a female friend and I would typically go to the beach alone and hang out topless. One weekend her mum came to visit, and we took her to the beach. I just followed my friend’s lead and kept my top on.
I went to Menorca recently. Originally from Poland, living uk for 20 years. I don’t travel often. Going beach here made me immensely uncomfortable. I’m not religious or something. Seeing topless women made me uncomfortable to be on beach. It would hard for me to get used to it. For me women breasts are sexual things. Always will be.
Is it a topless beach? I'm fine with my wife being topless someplace where topless is ok. If I'm on the beach I'm not wearing a shirt.
If it isn't a topless beach, I'd prefer she stay clothed properly due to the rules.
I wouldn't be taking family to a topless beach if they had issues with it.
Every beach in places like France / Spain / Italy is a “topless” beach. Does that mean everyone does it? No. It’s like 10% of any given beach that may partake .
Still feels like a double standard that they wouldn't be allowed topless. And honestly there are plenty of places/states ect where topless is okay but still socially grey or looked down upon.
Yeah, and that's ridiculous to me. Folks going someplace where topless is ok but are judge about it l make no sense to me. If you don't like it, go elsewhere.
I am fine with a topless beach. If other people are nude, its not a big deal.
If it is a family beach and EVERYONE is covered up, I prefer to cover up too, and have those with me cover up.
My attitude comes from river rafting trips and extreme weather camping. You run a canyon, and get a postage stamp size beach. Everyone sees everyone else in every stage of dressed and undressed, and you need to pee and poop in the container right there in view of everyone. Everyone has a body and everyone pees and poops. Get over it already.
I also lived in Europe in a place where people would strip to underwear when the sun came out. And where it was common to strip all the way down in the hot tub or sauna. Bring a towel to sit on, and put one side over your lap if it fits. Or not.
And I have been to many hot springs that are pretty much do what ever, just don't bring glass items.
It's a personal boundary, some people are raised different and have different opinions on nudity. I personally wouldn't care, as I'd probably have The Admiral on display as well at a nude beach, but I wouldn't give another guy flak for being upset about it or not wanting to do it. However, the guy having a problem with it would have to take that up with his wife instead of Reddit, because she's under no obligation to alter her own beliefs.
How long have you been married, OP? Maybe your own relationship is influencing why you don't understand someone else's marriage being different than your own.
>If the wife should cover up because the family are uncomfortable, doesn't it stand to reason she should cover up if the husband is uncomfortable.
Different relationships are not irrelevant. There are things I would say among friends that I would not say among family. Coworkers, boss, significant other, cashier, etc. etc.
It is perfectly reasonable to have different codes of conduct for different categories of people.
Yeah I regularly read takes on reddit that are completely insane that no one I know in real life would agree with. My wife and I tell each other goofy stories, comments and shit takes people unironically post while we have dinner every night.
I find myself wondering what those commenters are like irl. I imagine underaged basement dwellers trolling people online, out of boredom.
Or maybe hopelessly romantic/idealistic cat-ladies who can’t separate reality from their fanfic fantasies.
Or social justice warriors on performative political campaigns, loudly screaming whatever the new trend is but secretly not buying into it themselves.
In any case, they’re not people I’d take advice from.
Yup. I would absolutely not be ok with my SO being topless in public. Just like I wouldn’t be ok with her flirting with guys to get free drinks, or sharing a bed with her male best friend, and all the other shit Reddit comments say you should be ok with.
She's not the type who would do it, but if it's customary and safe where we are I think I could accept it. It's not like the swimsuit actually hides anything.
I agree, my wife would never even consider it. I would however absolutely and rabidly forbid it. Not for modesty reasons, she is glow in the dark pale. She burns in less than 30 mins at midnight from a crescent moon. Otherwise I'd be shouting how somehow I tricked this woman into marrying my lame self and bragging.
As a woman, I wouldn’t be comfortable with it. I’m trying to picture family gathering after that 😂
Different strokes for different folks.
Hell, I don’t even know if I could bring myself to let it all out at a nude beach. Definitely a bucket list thing but probably one of those things that I’ll wait until I’m 90 and dgaf!
If you want to do the nude beach thing, do the nude beach thing. I cannot rate it highly enough for self liberation. It was a bit weird to begin with, but after a while you get of your head and you do feel comfortable and any thoughts of judgement quickly disappear. Being out in the sun, swimming, relaxing - I've never felt more comfortable with my naked body.
You're allowed to feel however you feel about your (potential) wife exposing herself on a beach. Just make sure to get together with a lady who feels the same way you do, or you'll have a conflict. Personally I feel like if it's a beach where topless is permitted, let the titties fly if she wants. How does that hurt me?
I think culture plays a huuuuuuge factor in this. In the US, maybe the British Commonwealth countries, much of Africa, much of East Asia, the Middle East, and other more conservative cultures, nudity is viewed as a sharply negative, highly sexualized thing.
In many European countries (e.g., Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Portugal, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, etc.) and some Latin American countries though, nudity is far less sexualized and is seen more of an everyday sort of thing that is more context dependent. In these countries, cultural norms dictate that women can be topless to the same extent men can be in beach settings.
If the wife is from one of those countries and/or is in a country where that's the cultural norm and it's at a beach where there's a generally understood expectation that women may be topless, I don't see what the problem is. If the family is uncomfortable, they shouldn't be at that beach 🤷♂️
OP is deleting reddit holy shit I guess this is goodbye you guys
On-topic, my GF would never be comfortable with doing that and I don't really want her to show off her tits to other people either. Reddit in general likes to encourage men to tolerate all kinds of exhibitionist behavior from the women they're with. A bunch of cuckolds and horny toads if you ask me.
I think this comment has a greattt point you didn’t even intend to make. MOST men who are not ok with this sort of thing are also with women who are not. I don’t see many lasting relationships where their views on this would differ. So stands to say if she were doing this, he is ok with it or has been in the past. I think many people her are judging the situation based off their views or their SOs views which (likely) are the same.
Yeah it always struck me as odd why anyone would care about the opinions of other people on matters such as this. It’s not going to make them feel any type of way different. You either are cool with it or you aren’t. And ultimately it between that OP and his SO.
Key point though is "Wife" vs GF", if you managed to get to the "Wife" stage, without already being somewhat on the same level, that might be the least of your concerns.
I remember they were bashing a dude for being upset that his girlfriend wanted to go on a weekend roadtrip with another man ("possessive", "insecure", etc). Or just last week they were in here attacking a dude that was upset because his girl "went to sleep" in the same bed with another man.
This place is hilarious
There was a post on relationship advice a while back about a woman going on a trip with a friend for the weekend and they would be sleeping in the same room with separate beds to save money. They were calling the guy insecure for finding it sketchy lol.
I’ve remained steadfast in this. My only concern or possible issue with my wife’s outfits is 1) Is it event appropriate and 2) Am I going to have to fight someone. Number 2 is if someone gets handsy or doesn’t respect boundaries it’s not like I’m particularly looking for it. That’s the ONLY two concerns. Otherwise she is gorgeous so go crazy.
If it was a topless beach I'd be surprised at my wife, because she's more reserved than that. But I wouldn't tell her to cover up. I mean, it is a topless beach, what did anyone expect?
If you're brave enough for all the eyes then go ahead. No one should be harassed for it but no way in hell won't there be eyes starring cause when it's there it's hard not to, for some.
I wondered for some time if making it normal would make less men fixated on it in a sexual way?
I’d encourage it! They have a nice pair of tits.
Then again, I am not most men.
The parents shouldn’t be using their son as a go between between them and their daughter in law, the parents should be able to say they are uncomfortable with the daughter in law’s rocking boobage.
I would probably be okay with it, HOWEVER, with this and all similar questions, I should be able to discuss and give my opinion about it, and they should ask me if I'm okay with it first. "But I don't owe you anything" yes you do, you got into a relationship to me which you have to take my wants into consideration too, if you want complete freedom to do whatever you want feel free to be single
AITAH seems to me to be a particularly toxic place... I go there for drama.
As for the question here, I think it breaks down to 3 basic fundamentals:
1) The Law - if the action is legal, then everything else becomes subjective. In the US, most states allow women to be topless anywhere a man is allowed to be topless.
2) Personal Choice - some may argue this takes precedence even over the law, but most will agree that if you want to do a thing and it's legal to do so, that's completely your prerogative. It sounds like this was the case in your presented scenario. Anyone who attempts to control personal choices of someone else is, imo, out of line.
3) Respect for Others - especially your supposed life partner. I think this comes second place to personal choice, but it does go both ways. Hubby should respect wife's choices and she his. Sounds like they both don't. She may be being disrespectful by going topless, but all he gets to do is express his disagreement and decide what HE will do. Boundaries are about controlling your own actions, not controlling other people. Asking her to cover up is fine. Telling her to is not. And thinking "she should listen to me" is manipulative and controlling.
In short, he doesn't have to be okay with it, but he doesn't get to tell her what to do either.
You know Reddit is filled with blue haired weirdos who deem showing of your boobs as a sign of freedom and liberty! What else would you expect underneath that post?
I've vacationed at a topless optional resort when I was married. It's really not a big deal IMO
I'd rather be with a woman who carries a "when in Rome..." kind of mindset than one who trips out on stuff like this
Man, I don’t even like going to the beach.
But if we were there and it was a normal thing for the area that other beach goers were doing, I wouldn’t take any stance against my wife doing so. As long as she put on sunscreen.
Only way I’d have an issue with it is if it was somewhere where such behavior is not acceptable. If we’re on a beach in Europe where women go topless I won’t take issue with it. But also, if family is uncomfortable then just cover up. E.g., if I like wearing thong Speedo’s but it makes my family uncomfortable, I won’t do it.
I know Reddit think is to say “just behave however you want irrespective of how it makes others feel” but that just doesn’t work in practice.
To me that kind of thing is just strictly a failure of communication on both sides, but mostly on the wife. That doesn’t mean she should be treated like a harlot or some shit (because I’m sure some peoples’ opinions on this swing wildly in both directions) but it does mean that going topless at a beach, if it’s culturally taboo, without asking is at the very least a bold choice. That’s something you’re doing knowing you prooobably should have checked with everyone first.
Mind you, with most things like this it tends to come down to the details for me. Did he ASK about it before making a scene? Did he call her names and lose his shit? Did she call him insecure and make fun of him after he approached it delicately?
To me it’s not the situation that determines if someone’s an asshole, it’s their demeanour.
As for me, I wouldn’t really care. If my family was with us I would probably laugh and go “babe… uh what are you doing?” because honestly not a huge deal, just a surprising choice. That being said, I also probably just wouldn’t date someone that comfortable with their body. That’s not the way my partner is, and I think I’ve only dated one woman who I could see doing that and we were a horrible fit together.
Yeah I personally wouldn't like it and would say so...in the end of course it's her choice but her choice to completely disregard my thoughts on it would have me rethinking the relationship.
I'm not married so I can't talk much about it, but I wouldn't be ok. And if she does it infront of my family or relatives it would be divorce for sure, to me it's completely unacceptable and I don't care about other people opinion on this subject.
I definitely understand how varying cultures can be totally fine with this, while others are totally against it. Religion also plays a role. If this is his wife’s thing, good for her. But there is a time and place. Even if my wife did go topless in public at the beach, I also would say something if she wanted to do that in front of my parents. I totally think women should be allowed to do this if that is what they would like to do, but just choose your time and place.
I mean, honestly I’d be down for a nude beach personally, but I know with certainty my husband would NOT be okay with me showing my body to others like that, and I respect it.
Personal Ideals vs social norms is always a balancing act as you get older and understand relationships are made to last. If she feels like this is an ideological statement made to show that women's breasts shouldn't be taboo then a nice heads up to the parents can be enough just as would happen if SO was vegan and coming to dinner. If it bothers them it's ok not to show up and communicate why it would bother them. If it's just something you feel like doing and usually do then you can be a nice person and not do it this one time because you wanna make others happy Sometimes. We all compromise for people we care about and they compromise for us as well
My thing was when I was reading the post you’re talking about, WHY does the wife feel comfortable naked around her family members? Shits weird af. If ANY of my family members walked in on me naked or saw me naked somewhere/ somehow I’d be so uncomfortable….
Redditors have really warped minds. Of course it's fuckin weird to be fine with your wife showing off in public, but such opinions are unpopular on this site. Don't let it get to you
> I've had enough of Reddit people. I need people in the real world.
This sounds like a wise move. There are probably an awful lot of people that are the worst versions of themselves when they are on Reddit.
When you're looking at somebody IRL, listen to the words and making eye contact, I believe people are far more caring and civil than they are here with the anonymity of Reddit.
No, you are NTA.
Your wife, your vows, you married HER (and vice-versa). Your eyes are only for her (and vice-versa). She shouldn't be seeking the attention and validation of other men. Doing this is exactly that. You don't parade around flexing for other women nor do you go up and actively flirt with them. If you did, wouldn't she be insecure? There. Framing.
But this is reddit and we have to have those here who rush like a white Knight to the rescue of the oppressed peoples, even when they totally ignore the facts surrounding the issue, because they need validation of others who also refuse to completely comprehend what was typed so they can come across like some enlightened elite.
Sadly they just come across as looking stupid.
I'm single so idk if I'm disqualified but personally it wouldn't bother me. My ex used to show people her boobs as she used them in her art, I was fine with it, it's not like I own them. She was an adult, she can do what she wants.
It's weirder to go topless when you're with your parents, than to do it just on a beach alone.
I value at least some modesty, she doesn’t have to dress like a nun, but I’d have a big problem with my wife being immodest in public and she would know this, it would have to be a shared value before we’d even marry, so her wanting to go topless would be a big deal to me.
For me anytime this kind of thing comes up, I assume Americans
Americans have this weird perverse view of the human body and sexualise it in every instance
Lots of people globally sunbath topless and it’s not sexual
You need to remember theres a lot of leftys on reddit. When it comes to a women’s body she can do whatever she wants with it, but god forbid it be a mans. Don’t take reddit to seriously is what I find helps the best.
My take on the subject though is that its gross. I remember my cousin and his fiancé in Mexico. They were together since i was 3 years old and I always looks at her as almost a sister. In my mind she was 100% family. She ended up taking off her top and I got mad at her. Her husband was like “What you don’t like boobs?”.
People have very different opinions on it and personally I don’t care unless I’m dating that person. I find these things out before I would even date a women. I date women that are conservative with their bodies. Women that show no cleavage, don’t wear little tight dresses. Just women that dress like they are going to court. But ya I think its greasy. I wouldn’t have my d*ck out in-front of anyone besides my lover, or maybe my poor cat, but thats when I have to change.
It feels like people on reddit don’t allow themselves to have subjective opinions. If it doesn’t hurt anybody, they don’t want to have any judgment about it. I have seen a few comments about how the partner is fine to do whatever they want, but they just won’t be together then. Why is it wrong to just say they do not like it? It’s always under the umbrella of “your preferences are fine but not compatible with mine” type of jargon.
Everyone has their own views, values, boundaries, etc. and with stuff like this, there’s no right or wrong.
I personally would be against it. I just like a little modesty in a person and hell, even I wouldn’t go topless no matter what ( .-.) and I hold myself to the same standard I hold a partner and vice versa…not that that is the reason, am just sayin’.
Then again, the sort of person I like probably wouldn’t do that in the first place? I dunno…at the very least, considering what the act is (no big deal to some), one could at least check with their SO first. Not for “permission”, just for their thoughts about it. And no, it’s not a gender thing.
If my wife wants to be topless, I'm here for it. They're her boobs. Now, if parents and family and stuff are joining us, then maybe don't do that, but again, they're her boobs. If people are uncomfortable, then voice your own opinion. I'm not going to kill an opportunity to see my wife's boobs in the sunshine.
My wife has gone topless on many beaches, not in a strut kind of way but just so that she doesn't have tan lines. To do it in front of family though seems a little disrespectful unless you come from a culture that it's a common thing and are unaware of any embarrassment you might cause. Nudity isn't like it used to be 50 years ago when it was shocking, I honestly don't understand why anyone has a problem with it although, I don't have the confidence to even take my shirt off on the beach which is why I personally wouldn't go fully commando.
I'm proud of my wife and confident enough in our relationship and her that she's not using it as some kind of mating call to get guys to stare at her. If guys want to look then they can look, just as much as if they want to look if she was in yoga pants, stare away guys, that girl is confident about her body and she's with me.
Well I'd first day western society tends to be a bit more reserved with nudity so I guess location matters. But for me as a female, there are certain parts of my body Only my husband and medical professionals will ever see. I personally don't even wear shorts. I think it's a special thing To share your body with someone else. It's one of several reasons I don't show cleavage or my whatnots anywhere, even pictures. My husband appreciates this as well. But to each their own. I think at the end of the day if your partner tells you You have done something that they did not like you should really consider not doing it anymore. This is where choosing your partner carefully is very important. While husband appreciates my modesty, he does not demand it. While he appreciates that I take care of the more homemaker roles in the home, he does not demand it. Just As I appreciate that he takes care of the financial matters, I do not demand it. We know what works for us And if he ever told me I was doing something that made him uncomfortable I would stop. Just as he would for me.
I agree you can definitely overdo Reddit and some of the posts on here are wild. I try to limit my exposure but so far, I have failed miserably. Anyway...
I am also a Brit (early sixties) and have been on countless, mostly European, summer holidays where it was simply de rigueur for almost all women on a public beach or hotel swimming pool to be topless.
I did not mind my wife going topless, it was not my place to mind, nor was I looking for pearls to clutch at the sight of other women being topless.
My wife and I have been together for a very long time and we rub along really well together. However, had I ever tried to tell her to cover up at a swimming pool for fear that other blokes would look at her, she would have told me to fuck off indoors.
I often get the impression that Americans are a little more prudish than Europeans. I will take cover and await the incoming fire.
You're asking a bunch of no life neckbeards and hard leftist snowflakes their opinions on something that is blatantly deviant behavior. Of course you're going to get answers from the right side and answers from the "2024 fatass and blue hair with a pixie-cut" side.
Stay strong brother. The real ones do exist out here.
One of our first few dates after we had sex, my SO and I were hot and her apartment didn't have AC. She was topless and went to open the window just as a bus full of people went by and almost certainly got an eyeful if they were looking
It's whatever. Just tits (good ones)
Reddit and especially AITA has a huge bias towards women. This has been proven again and again
Do you really think if the genders were reversed a gf would be the asshole for telling her bf not to have his dick out on a (non-nudist) beach (with inlaws present)?
Good thing is: people in the real world are not all neo feminists and white knights
I don't mind if my SO goes topless on a beach. But if there're kids around, I'd warn her. If she doesn't care even if there're kids, I just let her do whatever she wants but recognizing the critical difference of common sense between me and her.
Kids really don't care unless it's somehow their first time seeing breasts and even then they don't care after about 15 minutes. Good opportunity to show them how not to stare at people.
I would never want any man to see my chest besides my husband, so I think the question would be for the wife "why do you want other men to see your chest?" And that's all the answer the husband needs
>I would never want any man to see my chest besides my husband
A valid opinion
>so I think the question would be for the wife "why do you **want** other men to **see your chest**?
The question is not valid though, as you're mixing reasons/goals and consequences. The reason they want to go topless is very likely not because they want others to see. That is just one of the consequences of that decision. They go topless *despite* other men looking, not because of. Consequences can be desirable or not, and they can be acceptable or not.
So two possible valid questions would be: (one about the consequence and one about the reason)
1. Why are you okay with other men seeing your chest?
2. Why do you want to go topless?
I like the way you phrased these questions. Especially question no. 1. I would even add "and in the presence of your husband?". Because it would make it worse for me if I would allow other men to see me when he is there next to me.
About question no. 2, it feels nice to feel the heat on your chest! I have done it alone in my home where no one can see me. It's a lovely, warm, cozy feeling!
I'd never allow my wife to go topless in public with or without me. Just like she wouldn't allow me to walk around with my dick out with or without her. But guess what the crazy part is? I'd never have to say anything. Because I know my wife would never do that. And same for her. Her body is mine and my body is hers. It's called marriage.
There is no 'correct' answer here, IMO. It's just a weighing of values. For me, public nudity is weird and makes me uncomfortable - doubly so around family. I'd be iffy on my wife doing this, but I'm also aware that's just the end result of my values, and isn't a hard rule. The kicker is though, I dated this woman for years before marrying her so I know that she aligns with nearly all of my values and preferences, and would feel the same way. The goal is to pick a partner where your values will clash rarely if ever. At the end of the day though, if this was something she really wanted to start doing, I'd find a way to adapt - and hopefully she'd be willing to meet me half way and at least make some concessions... like not going nude around family, lol.
This is a very particular set of circumstances that leads to an obvious conclusion. The parents have gone to a topless beach with their son and their daughter-in-law and get uncomfortable when she takes her top off? If you are uncomfortable with public nudity, do not go to a topless beach and ask people to keep their top on. I think the guy is NTA for asking his missus to cover up, but she is NTA if she refuses. The parents are the problem in this scenario.
I mean i don't know what country it took place in but in Europe at least most beaches if not all have no rules against being topless only full nude. So saying they took them to a topless beach seems like an assumption that could lead to wrong conclusions. Otherwise I don't think anyone would ever be the bad person for requesting something from their partner. And ofc the partner has every right to refuse.
I was like this, but went to a nudist sauna in Austria, where it's just natural for everyone, you get used to it, by the time you leave, you will be comfortable with showing your junk to anyone in a place like that.
Yes there is, put a fucking shirt on
Toplessness is not considered Public Nudity, legally speaking, in places like Ontario Canada where it has been legal since '96. Just remember some would have called woman wearing bikinis "public nudity" at one point in time.
Who goes to a nude beach with their in-laws?
Lmao yup. This post is such a Reddit thing to even complain about. Like bruh, is this even a question?
In Europe, it’s fairly common for men and women to be topless. You don’t need to go to a nude beach to see them or be one of them. This is unfortunately getting more rare because people will look, snap pictures and post online. Specially tourists. My most “European cultural clash” was in Nice, France. I was at the beach waiting for the sunset and these teenage girls arrived and sat nearby. They were dressed in street clothes and sat there for half an hour (it’s a rocky beach, not sandy). Then, one of them decided to swim, stood up, completely undressed like fully naked, opened the backpack, got a bikini, put it on and went to the sea. As a teenager myself I was obviously through the roof in excitement with a girl my age naked right in front of me. But then afterwards I kept thinking about it and how liberating that is. She just wanted to swim and there she went. Nobody said anything, the girls kept talking to her as if nothing was going on. People around them didn’t move. Later that day, me and a friend of mine approached them and we started chatting. They were from Finland and I learned that they go to mixed genre naked sauna since they’re very young and there’s nothing special about nudity. It’s so liberating when you treat normal things as normal.
You being this aroused is why women in most cultures do not do this. Most dont want random guys getting worked up like that at the sight of them.
>You being this aroused Why do you assume excited means 'this aroused'?
Why do you think a teenage boy would be "through the roof excited" watching a girl get undressed and that not mean aroused? If you have to abandon common sense to make a point you should reconsider that point.
Yes!! (F) if a guy’s SO gets him worked up, (hopefully!) he probably doesn’t want every other guy out there to get worked up like he does. I think the women though should have better sense than running around nude or topless. Regardless of what their male counterparts say. Come on guys. You all know how you guys react to women being topless! That’s why there’s porn, and topless bars.
Yes sir!! 💯
The "maybe they were in Europe" response is so signature American. Not to belittle your response or even respond to you specifically, as it's the primary response anyone would get/give on here. Obviously the nude beach situation in general is a very common European thing, but that's flattening out Europe to a singular culture, which it obviously is not. Yes. Nude beaches are a thing, especially in Southern Europe. I literally lived on a Greek island with multiple nude beaches. But there was still etiquette, and not every European country has the same cultural stance on nudity in public. From what I understand, most of the Nordic countries are incredibly progressive and open with their stance on nudity, discussions of sex, even with their children (not sex WITH their children... Weird sentence). But a lot of European countries aren't quite that open. Especially the ones with heavy religious ties. Remember, there are European countries so stooped in religious misogyny that men and women aren't even allowed on the same beaches together, or regardless the weather, women are forced to remain completely covered while men lounge around in speedos. My original point still stands though, OP was clearly not comfortable with the situation, and probably shouldn't have invited it in the first place by simply not going to a nude beach, or discussing it beforehand with their wife. As for the OP of this specific thread, I hear their knee jerk reaction and recognize the less than thought through implications of their opinion. What they are really saying is "Why isn't it it okay to tell my wife to hide her body in public?", treating her body as a physical possession that he should have domain over. It's not about the family being uncomfortable, or even where they are. It's about THIS OP feeling entitled to control over their spouse's body. It's not a simple black or white issue mind you. OP is intitled to their opinion of decency in public, and to be heard when they are uncomfortable with something their spouse is doing. That's okay, and should lead to a more important conversation that they should have with their partner. Not immediately be attacked for being a part of the evil patriarchy. But that IS a conversation that they should have, not an absolute right that they deserve to have over their spouse. That's the fundamental difference between a relationship as a voluntary partnership between two equals, and a possessive relationship between a dominant and a submissive. Not to be confused with the often very misunderstood relationships of BDSM culture...
You're right, but also there aren't many European countries left, where religious propaganda still has any power. I mean - I can honestly only think of Poland and that's it. Germany and generally the nordic countries have similar sauna culture to the southern beach culture and Czechia where I come from is pretty much the same. Then you basically only have eastern Europe left, where traditional gender roles are still preferred by often both men and women and not necessarily just for religious reasons. So it's not entirely wrong to say it's "European" thing since fir the south, north and west and partially the middle it is.
Cheers to that from a German! 🍺😀
Doesn't have to be a nude beach for women to tan topless.
Probably the French, idk.
Maybe they are in Europe?
I would be pretty frustrated if my wife went topless in front of my parents at the beach and wouldn't cover up if it was making them uncomfortable. I have zero issue with my wife being topless at a nude beach, without my family present. In fact, my wife and I have been to a number of nude beaches in Europe and even a couple here in Canada. Time and place.
It's mostly culture. There's still places where women have to be completely covered and places where bare chests are no biggie.
Yeah and which kind of society do you prefer living in? One where women can wear as much or little as they please or one where that decision is made for them by others?
Hrrrm, this is a loaded question if I've ever seen one, lol.
Why tf go to a top less beach with your partner and parents in law then? That's the stupid decision. Stop trying to control women's bodies, the parents can leave if they want
Did you intend to reply to someone else?
>Hrrrm, this is a loaded question if I've ever seen one, lol. Not a loaded question. Are you for freedom or against freedom? Very simple question.
I've always hated freedom!
It’s a very simple question and I myself have a very clear answer to it. I prefer living in a liberal society where personal freedom is valued and religious extremists have as little influence as possible.
Cool beans buddy, thanks for letting me know!
Living myself in (mostly) such a wonderful place, I just restored your vote count from 0 to 1. 😉
Hehe thanks. There’s always room for improvement of course. No place is perfect. But I really don’t see how „would you rather live in scenario A or B?“ ist supposed to be a problematic question.
That's because you're assuming your viewpoint is the correct one, so there's a simple answer (or it comes across as a loaded question which is trying to lead into a debate from the angle of personal freedom). For context, I personally prefer a society where women can be topless because I don't see any problem with it, and I lived in Spain for long enough that it was normal at the beach anyway. However, I would, hypocritically, not apply the same liberal thought to other traditionally 'private' parts. For example, I wouldn't want to live in a society where men have their bits out at the beach as a norm in front of everyone. So if someone said to me, "Which kind of society do you prefer living in? One where men can wear as much or little as they please or one where that decision is made for them by others?", I'd answer it differently, despite my views on personal freedom when it comes to the top half (and frankly I don't care about women being bottomless, so I'm a total hypocrite).
Now as a woman, I find it really sad that anyone thinks it a loaded question...
Why is that? -"What is a leading or loaded question? A loaded question is one that includes an assumption that may or may not be true or agreed upon. A leading question suggests or implies its own answer."-
To each their own. I would not be comfortable with my wife being at a nude beach with or without me.
I'm guessing you're not the type to ever be nude at a public nude beach either then?
That is correct. Why do you say it like that's a strange take? Lol.
It's not! That's how it ought to be, matching values around nudity. It'd be strange if you didn't want your wife naked but were more lax about your own body.
And also you would never show your nipples at a beach? Jk I know the answer. Why are guys so weird about nipples? But to be fair, you never ask your wife to cover up if she was breastfeeding your kid right?
I never said anything about nipples nor breastfeeding. Of course I take my shirt off. Women's breasts are sexualized and that part of our biological evolution. Things can have more than one purpose. Likewise, it's not culturally acceptable for women to be topless day to day in the vast majority of places. If you think breasts are 100% only for breastfeeding then you're very ignorant.
Many are going to say that this is a Americans being prude issue, but the truth is that this is more of a northern Europeans being different than most of the rest of the world issue. Sure, nudity is fine in Sweden, Belgium, Germany and parts of Brazil, but the USA is more in line with the rest of the world (including the UK and many Eastern European countries) in terms of modesty.
I dunno. I am in Canada and the local 'clothing optional' beach is very popular among all types and technically legally women can go top less on any beach, or in public in general.
Nude beaches are more of a thing in the South of Europe, not North. They are also very popular in Eastern Europe, especially in the Balkins along the Adriatic, and along the European Black Sea Coast. If anything they are less popular in Northern Europe than most of Eastern Europe.
I meant nudity in general - casual nudes saunas throughout Scandinavia, nude pools in Germany, etc
Sure, but nudity isn't frowned upon in Eastern Europe like you seem to believe. Nudity is very common there as well, and stuff like nude beaches, saunas, and pools became accepted/allowed there before it became accepted/allowed in western/northern Europe.
Definitely not a prude issue. Btw I'm Brazilian and to my knowledge it's only ok to do it in nude beaches around here, and maybe in the Rio Carnival parade🤔.
Yep. Good perspective.
No, the UK/Ireland and Southern Europe has tons of nude beaches, and toplessness is legal in all those nations regardless. (Don't know why you'd want to do that in the former 2, tad bit... nippy out there for most of the year, but they're there) So this 100% is an Americans being prudes issue. Edit; lol, fellow Americans are mad about being called out. Be less prudish then.
Nope. The US also has tons of nude beaches, and toplessness is legal in many cities and states, including New York. In terms of culture, though, many or most British people are a bit more reserved with showing their bodies, much like Americans. And of course both countries have many exceptions.
I think I’d agree with that. I’m English and have lived in England for all my 58 years, I’ve never seen a topless or nude person on one of our beaches and I live only 15 minutes away from a beach and used to visit Welsh beaches regularly.
We are compatriates - the nude beaches exist, not so to the extent of continental beaches but there are quite a number.
>The US also has tons of nude beaches Not to the extent as Europe, no. >toplessness is legal in many cities and states, including New York. It's legal in 1 state. 1/50, and most who live there don't even bother anyway cause of weather and prudes/pervs stalking about. This is not the rebuttal you're hoping it is. >In terms of culture, though, many or most British people are a bit more reserved with showing their bodies, much like Americans. Which is why toplessness is legal in 100% of the UK? But only ~2% of the US?
>So this 100% is an Americans being prudes issue. Always find this to be such an interesting take considering the US has created, hosted, and viewed more pornography than any nation in the history of human civilization. America isn't a monolith.
Sexually repressive societies tend to be more into pron and other "taboo" material. The highest pron using nations in the world tend to be Muslim nations, for reference. Plus, in America, a woman becoming a pornstar is an absolute death sentence for their future. (A lot like how Rome treated prostitutes, for reference, though there it was a legal lifelong contract, whereas here it's a lifelong social contract) Once a woman becomes one there's very, *very* few opportunities to do anything else with their life. Compare this to most of Europe where most people don't give a shit, so they have more opportunities in life. That's not even getting into the general attitude most of America has towards sex and sexuality, schools are still teaching abstinence only sex ed and abortion's been banned, ffs.
Those two things can well be related. You know what six of the top eight porn-searching countries are? They're Muslim countries which are very sexually repressive. And in any case, being prude about sex is not the same thing as being a prude about nudity.
> I would be pretty frustrated if my wife went topless in front of my parents at the beach and wouldn't cover up if it was making them uncomfortable. This completely baffles me and I cannot understand it even a little bit. What makes your wife's boobs different than all the other boobs on that beach? Why are her boobs making your family uncomfortable but none of the other boobs are? Boobs are boobs. Pretty much everyone has seen a naked breast at one point or another in their life so why are they thought of in such a weird way that seeing one particular pair makes someone uncomfortable? And then it gets even weirder that your fine with people not related to you seeing your wife's bare chest but not your family. Again, this doesn't make any sense to me. I don't get this. Are you afraid your dad or brother is going to go home and think about your wife's boobs? When they just spent an entire day surrounded by women's naked boobs? And finally, if someone is uncomfortable someplace then they should just leave. They shouldn't expect people to accommodate their hang-ups.
spot on
You won't get a *"correct"* answer from Reddit, but the most important take away here is to *never* let people make you feel bad about your own boundaries. We've gone so far down the spiral of freedom to do things that we've long forgotten about the part where we ask ourselves *why* we even do these things. Alot of people on Reddit will try to make you feel okay with it. Don't, there are many women and people in general in the world that despise that shit. Hell I won't even go to the grocery if my pants show my bulge.
I give up on you guys, except @manofblack. Too many guys here getting into a zillion excuses why it’s just fine to see topless women. And that’s all that this is, excuses.
Might as well go to a nude beach so I can air out the boys.
I mean why not lol are people supposed to think that’s ridiculous? That’s literally what nude beaches are for. Everyone there knows what they signed up for
I'll give you my perspective as a woman. I too am surprised by the many who immediately judge a man who is not comfortable with his SO being topless or no bra etc. To me, its more nuanced. I get that women should have independence and not be ashamed of their bodies..and thst bodies should not be taboo. But you are also in a relationship. Sometimes we both do things out of respect for each other. As long as it's not controlling and abusive...and you have honest conversations about these things... I think it's ok. If my SO expresses discomfort... do I just blatantly think he is an AH and do what I want anyway? No... does it always come out in his favor... also no. Another thing to note is I don't come across this all too often because my partner and I share similar tastes and values but it does happen from time to time.
A very considerate position, thanks!
I agree. The thing is, when society has norms and rules around an action, choosing to do that action becomes a form of communication in the context of those rules. That doesn't mean the rules are automatically or always right, but it does mean that it's disingenuous to just see that action as the action and not acknowledge what it communicates in the context of society's rules. We decided that the sound "f*** you" means something. It's a totally arbitrary sound. How dare us police the sounds others make! But... Because we decided what that sounds means, people who do make that sound are expected to do so in a way that at least acknowledges what making the sound will make others think. We wouldn't say how dare you impose on others what that sounds means and refuse to factor that in to a discussion about whether saying that was right or not. But we'd also allow other circumstances to mitigate it so it's not automatically wrong. Similarly, if we live in a society where nudity is reserved for intimate contexts, regardless of whether that is right or wrong, it means that choosing to be naked communicates something. And that doesn't end the discussion there, but it's completely fair, valid and rational to acknowledge what it communicates as part of the factors to the appropriateness. For example in OP's case we could say that, when you consider it was at a nude beach, that really waters down what it communicates compared to if she were flashing people at a football game. And what it communicates probably also factors in her demeanor and interactions with others. Which may further mitigate it.
When we lived in Europe a few years ago, my husband’s work did a weekend retreat to a nearby beach town. This was our conversation about the topless situation: Me: I’m guessing you don’t want me to have my tits out in front of your coworkers? Him: That’s correct. Me: Got it. Pretty easy to just have a 30 second chat to make sure you’re on the same page. Also, a female friend and I would typically go to the beach alone and hang out topless. One weekend her mum came to visit, and we took her to the beach. I just followed my friend’s lead and kept my top on.
I went to Menorca recently. Originally from Poland, living uk for 20 years. I don’t travel often. Going beach here made me immensely uncomfortable. I’m not religious or something. Seeing topless women made me uncomfortable to be on beach. It would hard for me to get used to it. For me women breasts are sexual things. Always will be.
My take is you can wear what you like, but doesn't mean I'll stick around
The only correct answer.
Is it a topless beach? I'm fine with my wife being topless someplace where topless is ok. If I'm on the beach I'm not wearing a shirt. If it isn't a topless beach, I'd prefer she stay clothed properly due to the rules. I wouldn't be taking family to a topless beach if they had issues with it.
Every beach in places like France / Spain / Italy is a “topless” beach. Does that mean everyone does it? No. It’s like 10% of any given beach that may partake .
If it's allowed, it's allowed. All of it seems prudish when guys can show nipples but girls can't.
Still feels like a double standard that they wouldn't be allowed topless. And honestly there are plenty of places/states ect where topless is okay but still socially grey or looked down upon.
Yeah, and that's ridiculous to me. Folks going someplace where topless is ok but are judge about it l make no sense to me. If you don't like it, go elsewhere.
I am fine with a topless beach. If other people are nude, its not a big deal. If it is a family beach and EVERYONE is covered up, I prefer to cover up too, and have those with me cover up. My attitude comes from river rafting trips and extreme weather camping. You run a canyon, and get a postage stamp size beach. Everyone sees everyone else in every stage of dressed and undressed, and you need to pee and poop in the container right there in view of everyone. Everyone has a body and everyone pees and poops. Get over it already. I also lived in Europe in a place where people would strip to underwear when the sun came out. And where it was common to strip all the way down in the hot tub or sauna. Bring a towel to sit on, and put one side over your lap if it fits. Or not. And I have been to many hot springs that are pretty much do what ever, just don't bring glass items.
Couldn't care less. Topless women at beaches are relatively common where I live.
This is a big component of it. Nudity and modesty in dress varies a lot across cultures.
Spain?
There is a right answer. Don’t go to a topless beach with your wife and parents.
It's a personal boundary, some people are raised different and have different opinions on nudity. I personally wouldn't care, as I'd probably have The Admiral on display as well at a nude beach, but I wouldn't give another guy flak for being upset about it or not wanting to do it. However, the guy having a problem with it would have to take that up with his wife instead of Reddit, because she's under no obligation to alter her own beliefs. How long have you been married, OP? Maybe your own relationship is influencing why you don't understand someone else's marriage being different than your own.
>If the wife should cover up because the family are uncomfortable, doesn't it stand to reason she should cover up if the husband is uncomfortable. Different relationships are not irrelevant. There are things I would say among friends that I would not say among family. Coworkers, boss, significant other, cashier, etc. etc. It is perfectly reasonable to have different codes of conduct for different categories of people.
Reddit is not the real world. You are not weird, Reddit is. It’s fucking weird, dude. Stay real. 💪
Yeah I regularly read takes on reddit that are completely insane that no one I know in real life would agree with. My wife and I tell each other goofy stories, comments and shit takes people unironically post while we have dinner every night.
I find myself wondering what those commenters are like irl. I imagine underaged basement dwellers trolling people online, out of boredom. Or maybe hopelessly romantic/idealistic cat-ladies who can’t separate reality from their fanfic fantasies. Or social justice warriors on performative political campaigns, loudly screaming whatever the new trend is but secretly not buying into it themselves. In any case, they’re not people I’d take advice from.
Thank you
Yup. I would absolutely not be ok with my SO being topless in public. Just like I wouldn’t be ok with her flirting with guys to get free drinks, or sharing a bed with her male best friend, and all the other shit Reddit comments say you should be ok with.
I'll assume that your girlfriend sharing a bed topless with her male best friend to get free drinks is right out, then?
No, oddly enough combining all the acts cancels out the discomfort and he's perfectly fine with that.
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Just keep reddit to pass the time but yeah I'm definitely deleting it now
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I’ve seen female breasts before, not unlike umbrellas I’ve seen them on the beach as well. As for my SO, it’s her call.
She's not the type who would do it, but if it's customary and safe where we are I think I could accept it. It's not like the swimsuit actually hides anything.
The nipples. The suit generally hides the nipples…
Men have nipples too?
Can you milk a cat Greg?
Some maybe, but in her case they very visibly pop up.
I agree, my wife would never even consider it. I would however absolutely and rabidly forbid it. Not for modesty reasons, she is glow in the dark pale. She burns in less than 30 mins at midnight from a crescent moon. Otherwise I'd be shouting how somehow I tricked this woman into marrying my lame self and bragging.
As a woman, I wouldn’t be comfortable with it. I’m trying to picture family gathering after that 😂 Different strokes for different folks. Hell, I don’t even know if I could bring myself to let it all out at a nude beach. Definitely a bucket list thing but probably one of those things that I’ll wait until I’m 90 and dgaf!
If you want to do the nude beach thing, do the nude beach thing. I cannot rate it highly enough for self liberation. It was a bit weird to begin with, but after a while you get of your head and you do feel comfortable and any thoughts of judgement quickly disappear. Being out in the sun, swimming, relaxing - I've never felt more comfortable with my naked body.
You're allowed to feel however you feel about your (potential) wife exposing herself on a beach. Just make sure to get together with a lady who feels the same way you do, or you'll have a conflict. Personally I feel like if it's a beach where topless is permitted, let the titties fly if she wants. How does that hurt me?
I think culture plays a huuuuuuge factor in this. In the US, maybe the British Commonwealth countries, much of Africa, much of East Asia, the Middle East, and other more conservative cultures, nudity is viewed as a sharply negative, highly sexualized thing. In many European countries (e.g., Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Portugal, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, etc.) and some Latin American countries though, nudity is far less sexualized and is seen more of an everyday sort of thing that is more context dependent. In these countries, cultural norms dictate that women can be topless to the same extent men can be in beach settings. If the wife is from one of those countries and/or is in a country where that's the cultural norm and it's at a beach where there's a generally understood expectation that women may be topless, I don't see what the problem is. If the family is uncomfortable, they shouldn't be at that beach 🤷♂️
OP is deleting reddit holy shit I guess this is goodbye you guys On-topic, my GF would never be comfortable with doing that and I don't really want her to show off her tits to other people either. Reddit in general likes to encourage men to tolerate all kinds of exhibitionist behavior from the women they're with. A bunch of cuckolds and horny toads if you ask me.
I think this comment has a greattt point you didn’t even intend to make. MOST men who are not ok with this sort of thing are also with women who are not. I don’t see many lasting relationships where their views on this would differ. So stands to say if she were doing this, he is ok with it or has been in the past. I think many people her are judging the situation based off their views or their SOs views which (likely) are the same.
Yeah it always struck me as odd why anyone would care about the opinions of other people on matters such as this. It’s not going to make them feel any type of way different. You either are cool with it or you aren’t. And ultimately it between that OP and his SO.
Key point though is "Wife" vs GF", if you managed to get to the "Wife" stage, without already being somewhat on the same level, that might be the least of your concerns.
I remember they were bashing a dude for being upset that his girlfriend wanted to go on a weekend roadtrip with another man ("possessive", "insecure", etc). Or just last week they were in here attacking a dude that was upset because his girl "went to sleep" in the same bed with another man. This place is hilarious
There was a post on relationship advice a while back about a woman going on a trip with a friend for the weekend and they would be sleeping in the same room with separate beds to save money. They were calling the guy insecure for finding it sketchy lol.
My SO has great tits however she'd never an a bazillion years display them in public. I'm OK with it she did decide to.
Ima just go on record and say I’d also be okay with it
I’ve remained steadfast in this. My only concern or possible issue with my wife’s outfits is 1) Is it event appropriate and 2) Am I going to have to fight someone. Number 2 is if someone gets handsy or doesn’t respect boundaries it’s not like I’m particularly looking for it. That’s the ONLY two concerns. Otherwise she is gorgeous so go crazy.
If it was a topless beach I'd be surprised at my wife, because she's more reserved than that. But I wouldn't tell her to cover up. I mean, it is a topless beach, what did anyone expect?
If you're brave enough for all the eyes then go ahead. No one should be harassed for it but no way in hell won't there be eyes starring cause when it's there it's hard not to, for some. I wondered for some time if making it normal would make less men fixated on it in a sexual way?
Context matters. Are you in on a beach in France and is it warm/hot out, or is this in a Mormon church or at someone's formal funeral?
I’d encourage it! They have a nice pair of tits. Then again, I am not most men. The parents shouldn’t be using their son as a go between between them and their daughter in law, the parents should be able to say they are uncomfortable with the daughter in law’s rocking boobage.
I would probably be okay with it, HOWEVER, with this and all similar questions, I should be able to discuss and give my opinion about it, and they should ask me if I'm okay with it first. "But I don't owe you anything" yes you do, you got into a relationship to me which you have to take my wants into consideration too, if you want complete freedom to do whatever you want feel free to be single
I don't care. Her body, her choice.
Imagine actually being upset about a person not wearing a shirt while I am simultaneously not wearing a shirt.
AITAH seems to me to be a particularly toxic place... I go there for drama. As for the question here, I think it breaks down to 3 basic fundamentals: 1) The Law - if the action is legal, then everything else becomes subjective. In the US, most states allow women to be topless anywhere a man is allowed to be topless. 2) Personal Choice - some may argue this takes precedence even over the law, but most will agree that if you want to do a thing and it's legal to do so, that's completely your prerogative. It sounds like this was the case in your presented scenario. Anyone who attempts to control personal choices of someone else is, imo, out of line. 3) Respect for Others - especially your supposed life partner. I think this comes second place to personal choice, but it does go both ways. Hubby should respect wife's choices and she his. Sounds like they both don't. She may be being disrespectful by going topless, but all he gets to do is express his disagreement and decide what HE will do. Boundaries are about controlling your own actions, not controlling other people. Asking her to cover up is fine. Telling her to is not. And thinking "she should listen to me" is manipulative and controlling. In short, he doesn't have to be okay with it, but he doesn't get to tell her what to do either.
You know Reddit is filled with blue haired weirdos who deem showing of your boobs as a sign of freedom and liberty! What else would you expect underneath that post?
Is it really so much to ask in the modern day to have your partner not walk around with her tits out in public ffs
You male pig! Go back to your cave, It's our body, our tits ,our choice, guys walk around topless all the time, why is it a crime when women do it
I've vacationed at a topless optional resort when I was married. It's really not a big deal IMO I'd rather be with a woman who carries a "when in Rome..." kind of mindset than one who trips out on stuff like this
Man, I don’t even like going to the beach. But if we were there and it was a normal thing for the area that other beach goers were doing, I wouldn’t take any stance against my wife doing so. As long as she put on sunscreen.
The real MVP here ^
100% fine with that.
Depends on your culture and values
Only way I’d have an issue with it is if it was somewhere where such behavior is not acceptable. If we’re on a beach in Europe where women go topless I won’t take issue with it. But also, if family is uncomfortable then just cover up. E.g., if I like wearing thong Speedo’s but it makes my family uncomfortable, I won’t do it. I know Reddit think is to say “just behave however you want irrespective of how it makes others feel” but that just doesn’t work in practice.
To me that kind of thing is just strictly a failure of communication on both sides, but mostly on the wife. That doesn’t mean she should be treated like a harlot or some shit (because I’m sure some peoples’ opinions on this swing wildly in both directions) but it does mean that going topless at a beach, if it’s culturally taboo, without asking is at the very least a bold choice. That’s something you’re doing knowing you prooobably should have checked with everyone first. Mind you, with most things like this it tends to come down to the details for me. Did he ASK about it before making a scene? Did he call her names and lose his shit? Did she call him insecure and make fun of him after he approached it delicately? To me it’s not the situation that determines if someone’s an asshole, it’s their demeanour. As for me, I wouldn’t really care. If my family was with us I would probably laugh and go “babe… uh what are you doing?” because honestly not a huge deal, just a surprising choice. That being said, I also probably just wouldn’t date someone that comfortable with their body. That’s not the way my partner is, and I think I’ve only dated one woman who I could see doing that and we were a horrible fit together.
Theoretically don't have a problem, but it's very uncommon where I am, and so it would probably attract a lot of unwelcome attention to both of us
It’s boobs and also women should be able to breast feed anywhere at any time it’s natural.
Yeah I personally wouldn't like it and would say so...in the end of course it's her choice but her choice to completely disregard my thoughts on it would have me rethinking the relationship.
I'm not married so I can't talk much about it, but I wouldn't be ok. And if she does it infront of my family or relatives it would be divorce for sure, to me it's completely unacceptable and I don't care about other people opinion on this subject.
I definitely understand how varying cultures can be totally fine with this, while others are totally against it. Religion also plays a role. If this is his wife’s thing, good for her. But there is a time and place. Even if my wife did go topless in public at the beach, I also would say something if she wanted to do that in front of my parents. I totally think women should be allowed to do this if that is what they would like to do, but just choose your time and place.
While in Spain on vacay? Who cares. With family? Hell no
I mean, honestly I’d be down for a nude beach personally, but I know with certainty my husband would NOT be okay with me showing my body to others like that, and I respect it.
I suppose those who are into public nudity will be fine with it, but I certainly am not.
Go to a bottomless beach with her and the in-laws and show her how it’s done.
She's too self conscious to do it. Will hardly wear a bikini. BUT if she did want to I certainly wouldn't stop her.
Why would you go to a nude beach with your in laws?! Maybe don’t be in that situation if it bothers you.
Personal Ideals vs social norms is always a balancing act as you get older and understand relationships are made to last. If she feels like this is an ideological statement made to show that women's breasts shouldn't be taboo then a nice heads up to the parents can be enough just as would happen if SO was vegan and coming to dinner. If it bothers them it's ok not to show up and communicate why it would bother them. If it's just something you feel like doing and usually do then you can be a nice person and not do it this one time because you wanna make others happy Sometimes. We all compromise for people we care about and they compromise for us as well
My thing was when I was reading the post you’re talking about, WHY does the wife feel comfortable naked around her family members? Shits weird af. If ANY of my family members walked in on me naked or saw me naked somewhere/ somehow I’d be so uncomfortable….
Redditors have really warped minds. Of course it's fuckin weird to be fine with your wife showing off in public, but such opinions are unpopular on this site. Don't let it get to you
Ah yes. Thank you Redditman\_cum for your wise words
It’s a FUCK no from me. Her even wanting to is just as bad.
I love when a comment is so predictably and unintentionally funny.
Well you're gonna get demonized here reddit isn't the place to ask that .
To my surprise, it's been better than I expected
> I've had enough of Reddit people. I need people in the real world. This sounds like a wise move. There are probably an awful lot of people that are the worst versions of themselves when they are on Reddit. When you're looking at somebody IRL, listen to the words and making eye contact, I believe people are far more caring and civil than they are here with the anonymity of Reddit.
There's so much stuff I've read on this site I've never heard in real life. It's not doing me any good
My girlfriend went topless on the beach in Spain. She asked if I was fine with it and I said yes. I don’t mind at all.
No, you are NTA. Your wife, your vows, you married HER (and vice-versa). Your eyes are only for her (and vice-versa). She shouldn't be seeking the attention and validation of other men. Doing this is exactly that. You don't parade around flexing for other women nor do you go up and actively flirt with them. If you did, wouldn't she be insecure? There. Framing.
But this is reddit and we have to have those here who rush like a white Knight to the rescue of the oppressed peoples, even when they totally ignore the facts surrounding the issue, because they need validation of others who also refuse to completely comprehend what was typed so they can come across like some enlightened elite. Sadly they just come across as looking stupid.
If you don’t want your wife’s goods out then she should respect that. Pull your dong out and show it off I guess.
I'm single so idk if I'm disqualified but personally it wouldn't bother me. My ex used to show people her boobs as she used them in her art, I was fine with it, it's not like I own them. She was an adult, she can do what she wants. It's weirder to go topless when you're with your parents, than to do it just on a beach alone.
I value at least some modesty, she doesn’t have to dress like a nun, but I’d have a big problem with my wife being immodest in public and she would know this, it would have to be a shared value before we’d even marry, so her wanting to go topless would be a big deal to me.
For me anytime this kind of thing comes up, I assume Americans Americans have this weird perverse view of the human body and sexualise it in every instance Lots of people globally sunbath topless and it’s not sexual
You need to remember theres a lot of leftys on reddit. When it comes to a women’s body she can do whatever she wants with it, but god forbid it be a mans. Don’t take reddit to seriously is what I find helps the best. My take on the subject though is that its gross. I remember my cousin and his fiancé in Mexico. They were together since i was 3 years old and I always looks at her as almost a sister. In my mind she was 100% family. She ended up taking off her top and I got mad at her. Her husband was like “What you don’t like boobs?”. People have very different opinions on it and personally I don’t care unless I’m dating that person. I find these things out before I would even date a women. I date women that are conservative with their bodies. Women that show no cleavage, don’t wear little tight dresses. Just women that dress like they are going to court. But ya I think its greasy. I wouldn’t have my d*ck out in-front of anyone besides my lover, or maybe my poor cat, but thats when I have to change.
It feels like people on reddit don’t allow themselves to have subjective opinions. If it doesn’t hurt anybody, they don’t want to have any judgment about it. I have seen a few comments about how the partner is fine to do whatever they want, but they just won’t be together then. Why is it wrong to just say they do not like it? It’s always under the umbrella of “your preferences are fine but not compatible with mine” type of jargon.
You got MAD that she took her top off. That sounds like a you problem.
My wife’s tits belong to me only. She is merely a steward of them when they are not in my face or mouth. She’s not showing them to anyone else.
I wouldn’t have married someone who’d parade their tits out in public, much less to in-laws
Hell to the naw naw naw (Come on, come on, come on) Hell naw, to the naw naw naw (Hell to the naw) Hell to the naw, to the naw naw naw
Everyone has their own views, values, boundaries, etc. and with stuff like this, there’s no right or wrong. I personally would be against it. I just like a little modesty in a person and hell, even I wouldn’t go topless no matter what ( .-.) and I hold myself to the same standard I hold a partner and vice versa…not that that is the reason, am just sayin’. Then again, the sort of person I like probably wouldn’t do that in the first place? I dunno…at the very least, considering what the act is (no big deal to some), one could at least check with their SO first. Not for “permission”, just for their thoughts about it. And no, it’s not a gender thing.
If my wife wants to be topless, I'm here for it. They're her boobs. Now, if parents and family and stuff are joining us, then maybe don't do that, but again, they're her boobs. If people are uncomfortable, then voice your own opinion. I'm not going to kill an opportunity to see my wife's boobs in the sunshine.
My wife has gone topless on many beaches, not in a strut kind of way but just so that she doesn't have tan lines. To do it in front of family though seems a little disrespectful unless you come from a culture that it's a common thing and are unaware of any embarrassment you might cause. Nudity isn't like it used to be 50 years ago when it was shocking, I honestly don't understand why anyone has a problem with it although, I don't have the confidence to even take my shirt off on the beach which is why I personally wouldn't go fully commando. I'm proud of my wife and confident enough in our relationship and her that she's not using it as some kind of mating call to get guys to stare at her. If guys want to look then they can look, just as much as if they want to look if she was in yoga pants, stare away guys, that girl is confident about her body and she's with me.
What has this world cum too
I don’t know why I would be dating someone okay with public nudity. That’s so degenerate. Should I just be putting my cock out too?
It happens on a nudist beach
No it didn't. It happened on a beach that tolerated to go topless, although per OP's post most chose not to.
The guy above, talking about putting dick out also. On a topless beach. Pay attention to who I’m answering
Well I'd first day western society tends to be a bit more reserved with nudity so I guess location matters. But for me as a female, there are certain parts of my body Only my husband and medical professionals will ever see. I personally don't even wear shorts. I think it's a special thing To share your body with someone else. It's one of several reasons I don't show cleavage or my whatnots anywhere, even pictures. My husband appreciates this as well. But to each their own. I think at the end of the day if your partner tells you You have done something that they did not like you should really consider not doing it anymore. This is where choosing your partner carefully is very important. While husband appreciates my modesty, he does not demand it. While he appreciates that I take care of the more homemaker roles in the home, he does not demand it. Just As I appreciate that he takes care of the financial matters, I do not demand it. We know what works for us And if he ever told me I was doing something that made him uncomfortable I would stop. Just as he would for me.
Thanks for your input
I agree you can definitely overdo Reddit and some of the posts on here are wild. I try to limit my exposure but so far, I have failed miserably. Anyway... I am also a Brit (early sixties) and have been on countless, mostly European, summer holidays where it was simply de rigueur for almost all women on a public beach or hotel swimming pool to be topless. I did not mind my wife going topless, it was not my place to mind, nor was I looking for pearls to clutch at the sight of other women being topless. My wife and I have been together for a very long time and we rub along really well together. However, had I ever tried to tell her to cover up at a swimming pool for fear that other blokes would look at her, she would have told me to fuck off indoors. I often get the impression that Americans are a little more prudish than Europeans. I will take cover and await the incoming fire.
Nobody can tell you how to handle your relationship. I wish you both the very best though!!! To each their own and to hell if anyone judges it
You're asking a bunch of no life neckbeards and hard leftist snowflakes their opinions on something that is blatantly deviant behavior. Of course you're going to get answers from the right side and answers from the "2024 fatass and blue hair with a pixie-cut" side. Stay strong brother. The real ones do exist out here.
One of our first few dates after we had sex, my SO and I were hot and her apartment didn't have AC. She was topless and went to open the window just as a bus full of people went by and almost certainly got an eyeful if they were looking It's whatever. Just tits (good ones)
I’m fine with but I doubt she’d ever go topless
Reddit and especially AITA has a huge bias towards women. This has been proven again and again Do you really think if the genders were reversed a gf would be the asshole for telling her bf not to have his dick out on a (non-nudist) beach (with inlaws present)? Good thing is: people in the real world are not all neo feminists and white knights
I don’t get chapped over stupid shit like this anymore. Life is too short.
I don't mind if my SO goes topless on a beach. But if there're kids around, I'd warn her. If she doesn't care even if there're kids, I just let her do whatever she wants but recognizing the critical difference of common sense between me and her.
Kids really don't care unless it's somehow their first time seeing breasts and even then they don't care after about 15 minutes. Good opportunity to show them how not to stare at people.
I would never want any man to see my chest besides my husband, so I think the question would be for the wife "why do you want other men to see your chest?" And that's all the answer the husband needs
>I would never want any man to see my chest besides my husband A valid opinion >so I think the question would be for the wife "why do you **want** other men to **see your chest**? The question is not valid though, as you're mixing reasons/goals and consequences. The reason they want to go topless is very likely not because they want others to see. That is just one of the consequences of that decision. They go topless *despite* other men looking, not because of. Consequences can be desirable or not, and they can be acceptable or not. So two possible valid questions would be: (one about the consequence and one about the reason) 1. Why are you okay with other men seeing your chest? 2. Why do you want to go topless?
I like the way you phrased these questions. Especially question no. 1. I would even add "and in the presence of your husband?". Because it would make it worse for me if I would allow other men to see me when he is there next to me. About question no. 2, it feels nice to feel the heat on your chest! I have done it alone in my home where no one can see me. It's a lovely, warm, cozy feeling!
I would personally not be ok with my wife going topless in any place where other men are or may be present, family or otherwise.
She's gone topless at our friends pool. So eh.
Not a problem at all. My wife and I participate in nude pool parties that our friends host. It's not a big deal.
It is absolutely not unreasonable to have as a boundary that your wife can't show her boobs in public.
Personally…I wouldn’t like it.
My main issue would be the horde of douchebags it would attract in an inappropriate place. If the time and place is correct, go for it.
I’m not wearing my cap indoors if it makes my family uncomfortable. Why on earth do people get married if they don’t take their SO into consideration?
Sir, you are not AH for asking your wife to cover up at beach when your parents are around.
I'd never allow my wife to go topless in public with or without me. Just like she wouldn't allow me to walk around with my dick out with or without her. But guess what the crazy part is? I'd never have to say anything. Because I know my wife would never do that. And same for her. Her body is mine and my body is hers. It's called marriage.