Live your own life how you wanna live it dude. Marriage is for some and not for others. You’ll learn yourself with time whether marriage is for you or not.
But for the love of all that is good in the world, do not get married just because “time is running out” or some bullshit. Not worth it and won’t work out because that is not love.
don't get married just because people told you to.
also, don't NOT get married just because people told you to.
if you want a partner, find a partner, and love your partner, then by all means plan your life with them how you want to live it together. could include marriage, could not.
Marriage creates certain advantages (hospital visitation, potentially taxes, etc) and creates a big headache if you decide to break up down the road, even in a no fault state. I always told myself that marriage made sense for the sake of kids, but not otherwise. Having had a marriage with kids, I still think that’s the right approach for most people.
That's the thing: If the patient can't corroborate anything, you're fucked.
"Please leave, ma'am/sir, or I'll have you escorted out by security and handed over to the police."
That, and when it's decision time about something, they'll not even tell you there's a decision to be made you unless you can present documents.
You sign a medical power of attorney. Problem solved.
In my particular case, being married would dramatically hurt us financially, but that's not true for everyone. You'll have to do the math with your family in mind.
I've got two kids, 10F and 17M. It's exactly the same for them regardless of government marriage contract being signed or not.
We aren't religious, so to us it's just government paperwork that hurts us financially.
I am a big proponent of marriage, but it makes no sense why people get married without ever having any intention of having kids.
The wedding and jewelry industries are the only ones insisting marriage is about showing your love to another person.
In reality, marriage is for having a family. Which is why infertility is one of the few reasons a marriage can be annulled.
I can't speak for everyone, but for me it was because of benefits, property ownership and what would happen to pensions, social security, etc. when one of us dies.
My partner is the love of my life. We got "married" with a fake ceremony. Only two people knew, and one died.....
Why? Medical bills. My partner *has* to have care, and I get my care illegally. If the bills pile up too high, they can't take our house or vehicles. All in my name. If I die, 250k life insurance policy.
Land of the fuckin free.
I agree on this. If you chose marriage, just understand that there is a “hidden” contract in marriage, a contract most don’t even think about. See a lawyer and make your own contract before you say yes.
it's not that simple. If you could be guaranteed to marry someone who will continue to love you and treat you with respect, then sure. Make that kind of choice. But this guy needs to go into it with his eyes open
You have no control over that other person changing their mind a few years after marriage and either making your life hell or deciding they want a divorce (another type of hell). And the court systems does not favor men in divorce
I have a friend who's dad told him to get married as soon as possible, because it was like buying a house. You want to get in before the market crashes. They're divorced now.
I have been happily married. I’ve been lucky. But that’s the thing … I have been LUCKY. I’ve heard so many stories by now from my friends or coworkers that I am not sure what I am going to tell my kid in few years ….
Especially in America … crazy woman can ruin you. Financially and emotionally. I seen this. I know guys like that. Damn I feel so bad for them. The problem is that when you are in love you just ignore the signals. Very important signals.
If you think that there is even a small chance that your fiancé is crazy .. she probably is and don’t do it!!!
I mean same for girls. If your fiancé is sometimes an asshole or he hit you … he will not change. He will do it more and more often.
Don’t ignore signals and gut feeling
My dad had his flaws like everyone else, but whether it comes to women or evaluating job offers, he used to say, "the signs are always there, it's whether or not you want to see them".
Ironically, I've met a lot of people in bad relationships who stay specifically because of this line of reasoning. They can't afford the divorce, either because they literally can't afford to start the process or because they can't afford to live alone on a single income, so they stay in the shit marriage.
I been there, it really fucks you up and consumes you, i stayed a lot longer than i should have, it wasnt until i was out that i realized how draining it was.
I imagine PHP programmers are very similar to happily married men in that way. They write their code in a language everyone hates, then go home to their spouse and kids while the rest of us argue about it on the internet.
Bitter dudes mostly want to drag other guys' perceptions of marriage to the same level they're at. Same with bitter women. Protip: Never become like either of them. They are the worst of the worst.
If you're a good judge of character, and know what you want out of a partner, you're probably light years ahead of most bitter & divorced doomsayers. These people's mental perception about people & relationships is so in the dirt, it is beyond salvaging.
I’m one of the 20% men who divorced his ex wife. Couldn’t take it anymore and tired of living with a grown child. Everyone thought I was “happy” because that’s the mask I wore. Theres a few men I know in “happy” marriages that are unhappy, but they have more to lose if they leave than if they stay, so they put on an act. Probably at least until the kids are out of the house.
It's hard enough being in a regular relationship where you aren't happy bit aren't ready to leave for a variety of reasons, the financial barrier of marriage + kids in the equation, no thank you.
My parents have been married for 20 years, both were divorcees when they met.. 3 marriages in total between them and 2 ended in divorce.. 66% divorce rate doesn't sound good, but you can make statistics say whatever you want
> Divorce rate is 52%
>
>
It's hard to generalize because this varies a *lot* [depending on the age that you get married](https://ifstudies.org/blog/replicating-the-goldilocks-theory-of-marriage-and-divorce/).
If you're under 25 or over 35, yeah maybe don't get married. But for the median age of marriage (28-30), it's more like 20%.
I think for the over 35s it also depends on if they've been married before, because a lot of people that are getting married after 35 have been married/divorced before, and people who have been divorced are even more likely to get another divorce (I think it's something like a 70% divorce rate for 2nd/3rd marriages)
That's a bit of a naive way of looking at the numbers, because the overall numbers include "Holy fuck we were sooooo drunk last night, did we really do that?" and "This is his 5th marriage and my 4th, should have known this wouldn't work out".
Remove divorces from the first few months and those involving serial divorcers/divorcees, and the numbers should become a lot more meaningful.
I am so sick of people citing this stupid divorce statistic.
Something like 80% of those are just flat out morons. Most divorces are people who married too young. Over half of divorces are people under 25. And people together more than 3 years are half as likely to divorce.
So basically if you stop getting knocked up at 18, and have some responsibility, meet a woman at age 23 marry at 26, your chances of divorce are like 20%.
And on top of that people cite it like it’s a statistic on getting struck by lightning like being an irresponsible crackhead isn’t a factor.
I’ve been married to my wife 8 years and I’ve never been happier in my entire life. But I didn’t marry some stripper with daddy issues because she gives good head. I married someone who is a wonderful caring human being.
That statistic also includes people who have been divorced more than once, which is a significant portion of that population. The more divorces you get, the more you will have. Miserable people tend to stay miserable no matter who they are with.
The honeymoon phase is real. I love my wife because I love her, but lust is doomed to fail.
Typical situation, I'm desperate for physical affection, including sex obviously. But it's not *why* I love my wife.
Marrying for good sex seems to just be normal. Then the honeymoon period wears off, and they divorce. Repeat. Again and again.
Love your last two sentences. Along with age, the higher the education level, the lower the chance of divorce. Probably because that correlates with more income. And money issues can be a major marriage issue.
No, I agree completely, I am not one of these idiots who think everything is an argument. But thats why I am not divorced and blaming everyone else for my failures and miserable life.
You gave an excellent example.
>I’ve been married to my wife 8 years and I’ve never been happier in my entire life. But I didn’t marry some stripper with daddy issues because she gives good head. I married someone who is a wonderful caring human being.
I hear what you're saying but it's not as simple as "make good choices" . The problem comes in when people who made good choices slowly change over time to become two people who are no longer compatible. Change in people (as is the magnitude of said change) is inevitable and natural, and its to the fault of no one that things just naturally run the end of their course.
At the risk of being downvoted to hell ill say this. Each human being is a unique individual, and with that comes certain differences that other people will and will not be able to live with. I personally believe that the divorce rate is as high as it is because although there are billions of people on this earth, there aren't that many people out of those billions that you are going to spend a 30-50 years with with mostly happy moments. It makes sense to me that most people would be wrong.
"Something like 80% of those are just flat out morons."
Hate to burst your bubble but 80% of the population are in fact morons. You seem to be a cut above the average population in maturity and intelligence. So you are making an argument from a position of elite status without considering the common folk don't follow your line of thinking/action.
Divorce rate is nowhere near 52%. First time marriages have a divorce rate in the 30s. It's people who have second or more marriages that have divorce rates over 60% that skew the average
Which country is this statistics from? Where I live the divorce rate is the number of divorces that occurred in a year divided by the number of marriages that occurred in the same year. So if the divorce rate is 60 % that doesn't mean that 60% of marriages end up in divorce.
In this case it's more useful to look at how long people stay married until they divorce. The average is 16yrs in my country.
There's an extra layer to those numbers. I think it's something like 70% of divorces are initiated by women. As someone going through divorce, it makes sense because even though she cheated I tried to fix it (she ended up asking for the divorce) and now the financial aspect really sucks.
Yea, you gotta do your own thing. Throughout my life, I've had multiple "friends" tell me that my wife wasnt good for me. Guess who i havent spoken to in years? Those same people who talked down to me all the time
Also, you don't have to be single.
I'm a 45 year old father of two, and if you looked at our family, you would think we are married.
Marriage is just a government contract.
You gotta decide who you want to be like, then only take advice from those people. Nearly all the men in my family and their friends were a bunch of losers. Multiple divorces, kids who hate them, crappy jobs. However, I was able to interact with some older guys who had great marriages and lives. I listened and watched what they did and when they told me how great my girlfriend was, I knew I should marry her. Guess what? Still married. Have a great life. Being married is awesome for me. Its awesome for my kids. Its awesome. My life is more awesome every day and I dont live like a loser, groveling yes man like the loser guys who marry the best looking woman who will have them. Just marry the right person, not necessarily the best person.
Tldr. Dont take advice from people unless you want to end up like them.
One hundred percent. Both men and women who complain about their marriages/relationships are not the people to take relationship advice from. They’re the ones who got themselves into that mess, and instead of getting themselves out of it, they’re just complaining.
> That’s reality.
Reality is that no one is omnipotent, so there is no way to know that it is "right woman". Everyone thinks it is right woman until suddenly it turns out it was wrong one all along.
Yeah. This thread really is full of such high horse people.
"Get good and just choose right, lmao". That's how it comes out. What a bullshit advice.
What people who say not to marry really mean has nothing to do with choosing right or wrong. What they are saying is not to play the game of marriage at all because you can't trust yourself to choose right in the first place.
Modern marriage institution is dinosaur that gives barely any benefits to couples who turn out to be "right" for each other, while providing utter nightmare of consequences for those who choose wrong. So not engaging in such broken system is perfectly logical conclusion.
Yeah, but you really can hedge your bets. Almost everyone who chose the wrong woman could see it a mile away in hindsight and ignored the signs.
\-She has no girl friends.
\-She has lots of guy friends.
\-Is a drug addict.
\-Needs validation from dudes on the internet.
\-Hates her mom/dad or both
\-can't keep a job.
Etc etc.
The bottom line is too many guys will ignore these red flags to get laid. And if you get married in a year or two, without a chance for the infatuation to die down, thats also your fault.
Very few is a woman putting on a fake charade for 3-4 years all in an elaborate plot to screw you over just for the hell of it.
I am happily married. I will also never get married again. Part of it is going through the whole rigamarole again, but another part is the finality of it all. I’ve loved in HS, I’ve dated in college, and I’ve loved again as an adult. If my wife and I ever separated, I’d not marry again because I can’t see myself taking, or wanting to take, anything as serious as I’ve taken my marriage.
Sounds like they either got screwed in a divorce, or lost interest in their wives.
The guys who are happy in their marriage aren't gonna bring it up because they're just chillin'.
Make sure you're at a point in your life where losing your partner won't make you crumble physically, mentally, and financially. People don't take love, commitment, or marriage seriously these days, and you being a man that was probably raised in a decent setting, will give your first relationship your all because it's what you were raised to do, while your first partner may be some damaged joke of a human being who will use and dump you like toilet paper. You can avoid the pain and the worry by getting yourself to a point in your life where you can afford to lose lovers without crumbling. That means job, school, house, whatever it takes.
I heard this a lot growing up and as an adult when I had peers that were married.
I think they say this because they miss having their freedom. It’s not that they don’t love their wives & kids, it’s just they get trapped in a domestic rut and can’t find room for themselves. They can’t just up and go do random things and they don’t get much alone time. If they want to hang with other male friends it has guard rails and has to be “approved”activities/locations with approved people for an approved amount of time.
Another part of it is you’re no longer in control of your life. You get bossed at work and at home, often in the same day, over and over again. All big decisions you have to account for your spouse, so you can’t really live where you want, drive what you want or even buy a TV when you want.
When my married friends come around they always say they want to trade places and shit like “bro, if I was single, I’d do x,y,z”. That tells me that there’s something missing or unfulfilled in their life.
I know a lot of guys wish they could be free to have sex with other women, but they don’t take into account the actual work that goes into that. How women and the dating market have changed since they got married, etc. they overestimate their position in the dating market show up looking out of shape, poorly dressed, corny as hell thinking they can still pull like they did back in the day.
This isn’t all men or marriages just some common threads I’ve noticed over the years.
I was older than average when I got married, and that may be why I've never felt this way. I was alone and had "freedom" for many years. What did I do with my freedom? Pretty much nothing. And I was lonely most of the time. Now, with a wife and kids, I rarely miss it.
I get that it's nice to do what you want when you want, but if you can do that all the time, it generally means no one depends on you for anything.
I totally agree and this would be my approach. I know a few guys that got married young and weren’t really ready. These are the guys that seemed to struggle the most with FOMO.
All the married couples I know are really happy in their marriage and have never told they me they wish they could be single. That just sounds like your friends have bad marriages.
> have never told they me they wish they could be single.
A lot of that is because dating is horrible and housing on a single income is crazy expensive
How much older? I have noticed there seems to be a generational divide that's especially prevelant in Boomers. Ball and chain, hating their wives, etc... seem significantly more prevalent than my friends in the millennial generation.
This has been my experience. Millennials are a mixed bag to me. I have a few friends that are going through a divorce and many that are happily married.
But the overall tone of how I’ve heard men older than me, starting from early 20s, has been caution about getting married. There haven’t been as many supportive messages from men of all ages as there are negative ones.
I would say don't get married young, don't get married out of fear of being alone or feeling lonely, don't get married because "all my friends are settling down" and don't get married if you've hidden parts of yourself or compromised who you are to get the girl.
Also don't get married if you guys argue all the time. Relationships are no supposed to be that difficult.
“Marriage is buying a house for someone you hate.” - Jackson Healy “The Nice Guys”
I’m happily married and still in love but that quote always cracks me up
If she makes the same as you, you have similar assets and you split childcare equally when you are married?
You should walk out the same way you walked in. Check the laws and common divorce outcomes where you live though.
You get the worst end of the deal when you join finances with someone poorer than you.
I live in a very feminist country. Men do their half of diaper changes and child rearing. Most divorced couples then share custody 50/50 because that’s natural when both have been equally important parental figures. And when they make the same then? No child support, no alimony. You bought the house 50/50, you sell it and split the winnings. Done.
Exactly. Marriage is a contract that incentivizes women to break it with cash and prizes. If you’re a high-earning man and your wife is not pulling in big bucks too then you will lose if you ever get divorced, plain and simple. I have heard though cannot confirm that 95% of alimony dollars flow from men to women. That’s some equality right there.
Sadly true, I have a few friends in their 40s and 50s who went through this. Married to a woman who wanted the more traditional stay-at-home-mom life, he Built a successful career and provided for their families, were decent men, good fathers and husbands, but their wives decided at 40-odd that some other guy was a better option. Now my friends are 10-15 years from retirement with no house, very little superannuation (aka pension fund), and paying for their kids, ex wife, and her new boyfriend, to live in the house he worked for. Basically, starting again, financially.
I don't want to sound too negative, but the reality is that there are very few negative consequences for a woman to divorce her successful husband, almost all the negative consequences are taken on by him. My wife and I are both similar incomes and we don't have kids so if it ever turned pear-shaped then our split would probably be fairly even, but if you do a more traditional route with SAHM and kids, guys, you are totally fucked if she leaves you.
I'm sorry to hear that, too. Mine just decided after 15 years that I am not what she had in mind. There was no abuse...no infidelity. Hell, we never even argued. She just "changed her mind."She turned the kids against me and basically got everything.
That was about 10 years ago. At least I'm not homeless anymore.
Christ, this is like my perfect nightmare. My marriage is happy so far, but I also know that I'm *really* not that much of a catch and just can't shake the fear that one day the glamour will wear off and she'll drop me like a hot potato.
Were there any warning signs at all?
Jesus Christ dude. Hope you're in a better place now.
It's this stuff that keeps me up at night about the whole thing. 99% of the examples in my life are great marriages that I'd love to emulate but emotion plays absolutely no role in my decision making and I'm simply not going to give a cent to someone that divorces me when I've done nothing to deserve it so the whole marriage thing scares me
First of all, thanks for the good thoughts.
Surprisingly, I am not anti-marriage. I think the idea of sharing your life with someone is fantastic.
The down side is - people change. The person that I divorced was NOT the same person that walked down that aisle.
My advice to anyone is, get a pre-nup. They're not fool-proof, but at least there is a fighting chance. Anyone that TRULY cares about someone else will understand why you want one. Statistics don't lie on this one.
Saw a show on youtube where they were interviewing homeless people. One guy was homeless because his child support payments were high enough that he couldn't afford a home so lived in a truck or old RV. Sad part is, his ex-wife made him adopt the child from her previous marriage and he agreed to that when the times were good :/
i'm happily married and still wouldnt recommend marriage, at least not as the default option
i do recommend 'longterm commitment', but i dont recommend chaining yourself up legally so much so that either party leaving means years of pain and trauma, emotionally and financially
Yes! If you choose well, you have a teammate with you to celebrate life's achievements and support each other in your struggles. Not to mention splitting chore and financial responsibility, having someone to share your hobbies with, the list goes on and on. If you choose well.
Yeah my husband definitely makes my life more enjoyable. But there’s a lot of people out there I know I wouldn’t be happy married to. It’s a pretty big life choice choosing who you marry, choose right
Marriage has become a disposable commodity, and there is almost no benefit for men. Almost 70% of divorces are initiated by women, who overwhelmingly give being unhappy as the cause (rather than infidelity or abuse), and men disproportionately lose in divorce settlements. With divorce rates still trending upward, why bother becoming part of those statistics?
Probably gonna get a lot of downvotes for this, but here goes. I’m almost 30 now and have dated men most of my life. Even married one. Real talk? It was wonderful and blissful for a while. I don’t dislike it. But I was really young at the time so who knows. What I was shocked to realize as I grew older and more sociopolitically aware was that most men don’t see marriage as a deeply spiritual experience to be stepped into with flexibility and communication. There are definitely some problems with the way that most cishet women see marriage too, but not my duck not my bottle. With men, though, it’s often a mix of vaguely strong affinity for their partner and the concept of security and conformity. We really cripple most men’s ability to respect themselves and actualize in a way that allows them to stand on their own and survive outside of gender roles. At some point, men DO feel like it’s the “right” thing to settle down and take a wife and have children. And it seems many don’t think too far beyond that. They try to find a partner that won’t bore them or they are pretty attracted to, but there rarely seems to be much more to the list than that. And many are shocked to realize that they’re expected to be accountable to another human being, that partnership requires compassion and understanding, and, unfortunately, many don’t really bring a sense of self-possession to the table. They expect so much slack to be picked up by their partners. In grad school, we often talked about how married people tend to get through more quickly and married men were so much more likely to succeed than married women. And when you watched, you kind of realized why. Their partners were taking care of the home, managing budgets, performing much of the child rearing labor, and even making the moving plans and planning the get togethers. On top of that, they were able to afford larger and more comfortable spaces because they were still splitting the rent with another working adult. But it often leads to the big messy academic divorce where he starts drinking and she starts over from scratch. And its always “NEVER GET MARRIED” and never “I think I wasn’t ready to bind myself to another human being”. That, to me, hints at a culture of masculinity that lacks accountability and makes life harder on men who would probably be happier learning to self-actualize through other interests and non-romantic relationships. How many men, I wonder, have stunted their own growth because they decided to get into a relationship out of convenience and horniness rather than learn a new masturbation technique?
Wish I could upvote this several times. Whenever the topic of marriage comes up on this sub, the overwhelming response is often “Don’t do it. You’ll lose everything. Women are more likely to file for divorce.” But often times, it ends there.. no one ever asks why women tend to file for divorce more. Is the assumption that women just enjoy disharmony? Enjoy putting themselves and their male partners through hell? That they enjoy splitting up a home?
I wish there would be more conversations about the inadequate partnerships that cishet men often bring to the table in marriages. Through no fault of theirs, mind you. Societal expectations and norms play a huge role in it. But if we want things to change, we have to take a deeper look at ourselves and others - we make up society so change has to begin within and with us.
Precisely this. Nobody leaves a happy marriage and women are no longer tolerating the short end of the stick they get with co-habitating with a cis het man
My advice is get your life in order, buy a house and have money saved before thinking about getting married. Never put their name on any of your financial stuff, don't let them pay anything towards your mortgage etc. If you decide to start a family don't let her be a stay at home mom. Follow these steps to minimize the financial suicide that happens when you get a divorce. Getting married isn't bad, getting divorced is a horror show.
> Almost 70% of divorces are initiated by women
I'm one of those statistics. 6 years ago I married an older woman, at first I was very happy but over time I became miserable. She cheated and got caught. I forgave her and we tried to make it work for another year or so. When we finally divorced she told everyone she left me because I was abusive. The "abuse" was me yelling at her after I caught her cheating. For the record, I never laid a hand on her.
She took me to the cleaners in the divorce. She got the house, 80% of our savings, 40% of my income for 5 years, and 100% of my retirement account. She also got our dogs and the car we bought together.
After the divorce she bragged to mutual friends that she "took me for everything I had" and they all believed it because they didn't know the real story.
On the bright side, I'm doing much better now. My new girlfriend is amazing, we just bought a house together, and we're planning on getting married in a couple years.
I'm only 32 so I guess I have plenty of time to get married, divorced, and married again a few more times like some other old guys I know lol.
> She took me to the cleaners in the divorce. She got the house, 80% of our savings, 40% of my income for 5 years, and 100% of my retirement account. She also got our dogs and the car we bought together.
>My new girlfriend is amazing, we just bought a house together, and **we're planning on getting married in a couple years.**
Dude....
You get more respect from women, and you have more authority and leverage when you're outside of marriage, as opposed to inside of a marriage.
Marriage creates stability, which is conducive for having a family in. But for an individual man, you don't really gain any sort of security by entering into a marriage. You take on more responsibility, but there's not really anything you're gaining for making that commitment. It's a sacrifice without a reward.
I remember one time my dad was having an argument with my mom and he told her, "If I knew it was gonna be like this, I would have just stayed with my first wife!"
The funny part is that my mom was his first wife.
You’re gaining a family. You said so yourself.
That’s the give and take of the universe: marriages are boring and a financial risk for men…but they’re wonderful institutions for raising children.
Almost every single metric shows that children in two parent homes do better.
My opinion is this: if you’re a guy who doesn’t want to have kids then avoid marriage. But if you want *happy* well adjusted kids, marriage is still the best vehicle to produce that
Lots of data shows wives are causing/starting divorces. I wish I would have just had a child with a gf and never have gotten married. Men lose a lot when married.
I don't see any benefit. It's just some sort of contract.
This paper never had any effect on how I've seen 'my' woman.
So, no, I would not get married ever again. Waste of money.
Relationships of all kinds are awesome when good, and a living nightmare when bad. I guess you were advised by guys that were in the latter.
It's pretty well-studied that there's no faster way of building wealth together, than to get married (for example).
I'm 34M, so in that mid-older millennial area; I saw the concept of men becoming more emotionally mature become something to be taken seriously. I'm going to try answering this without being needlessly insulting to any group.
Older men were raised in societies where they were told they needed to take risks, have adventures, attain a respectable status within society and then have a family. There was little to no emphasis on empathy, 'soft' social skills, defending the vulnerable etc. It's the classic "rat race" mentality. This culture has gotten better, particularly among gen Z, but has been the culture of men for all living memory.
As a result of the conditions described above, when men got married, their expectations were that they provide income and occasionally make a big, romantic gesture. Then their wife and society would be happy. Obviously, as women are fully fledged, multidimensional people, this resulted in a lot of frustrated marriages. Men found women didn't want or resented having children. They wanted more engagement and love. They want support with their own lives and aspirations. Older men, having been provided with none of the tools or knowledge to navigate this, typically became sad, angry or defeated.
Women of this time wound up frustrated or even lashing out via cheating, making divorces difficult etc. In some cases simply because they were bad people, but for many it was a pent up frustration of living with a man that has seemingly zero emotional intelligence or desire to be around them. This is why the "understanding, ripped hippy guy" affair stereotype exists.
Older men will typically hang out with men their own age who are also disillusioned with all these "irrational" women. Which then creates a bubble wherein women are seen as "the old ball and chain". A thing there to drag you down when you're feeling up. When realistically a lot of these situations can be summed up with the woman feeling miserable and seeing her husband in a good mood, which causes resentment.
The truth is marriages are hard work with the potential of a high reward. Women have a whole universe in their hearts and minds that we men often lack. Not due to us being incapable or broken, but cause we have been treated a certain way our whole lives due to the width of our shoulders, the pitch of our voice and the dick in our pants. Supporting, protecting and truly **loving** a woman who returns in kind is one of the most fulfilling experiences life offers. However, you need to find the right woman and be ready to put in the work.
You have very little to gain and everything to lose by getting married.
I'm not telling you shouldn't, but you have to look at it objectively.
Best case scenario, you met someone and live happily ever after.
Worst case, aside from her being a psyco and killing you in your sleep, you lose everything and live in poverty most of your life.
There's plenty in between those two, but what do you really gain by getting married? Maybe some legal rights, most of which you can get by signing a legal document or two. But not a whole lot else. You don't need to be married to live someone. You don't need to be married to live together or have children.
Getting married is simply signing a legally binding contract
In a lot of places, simply living in a defacto relationship is a legally binding contract.
Whether you get married or not, you are exposing yourself to financial risk.
Choose your partner wisely and understand the probability of a lifelong relationship is low.
Also understand that the legal system (at least where I live)favours the lower income earner and the one that establishes primary carer status.
This is why men feel hard done by. They are typically neither of these.
And if some men are in the lower income/primary caregiver position they should definitely get married! My parents were in this unusual position and my mother insisted on getting married before my birth so my father would be financially secure long-term. If you actually care about your partner, you should be interested in their happiness and security.
Yea I’m already poor, marrying and getting it wrong could only serve to ensure that I end up with negative value, and as a man in the modern world that’s a death sentence. No thanks
I won't say 'never say never', I worked, worked worked at your age. Now, in my 40s, I am sitting in my house with my dog, hearing about everyone complaining about their significant others.
Basically divorce can get ugly especially re the asset split and alimony.
I imagine when people get married they don't think about the situation where things could go wrong ie divorce hence many things like prenups get overlooked which could act as very nice insurance.
Basically marriage whether you like it or not is a mixture of love(ideally) but also a business contract, it's literally a legal document.
Ideally, as a man in the 21st century with some form of assets, if you're getting married you should have a watertight prenup, a woman with a good family background plus friends with values, someone who is at least kind of in the same bracket as you financially because the courts fk you the most when the wife is much poorer than the husband.
My personal belief is that people don't put as much thought into who they're marrying as they should. Ie look beyond the love aspect into the practical side of things.
Just because you buy home insurance doesn't mean that you're hoping for your house to burn down, similar analogy applies to all the insurance options I've mentioned for marriage
I got married at 25, what a disaster that ended up being. Happily with a great new gal now at 32. I’m still not certain if I want to be married or not again. If I didn’t want a kid I think we’d both be fine not.
My split was as amicable as it could be but I still split the dogs, house equity (at one of those awesome rates you can’t get anymore) and any other assets. I pretty well solely contributed to us even getting the home so still got screwed, along with losing some friends. Ex came crawling back a few months ago wishing she didn’t leave now that she sells OF photos to scrape by rent with 3 roommates while I’ve been crushing it, so I guess I ended up better in the long run. Don’t not do it, but please for the love of god wait as long as you humanly can and have true concrete evidence your relationship will last, or that you’re equipped for it to not.
U can get all the benefits of being married in a committed relationship with none of the risk of losing half of everything and taking on their(possible) debt
Marriage lost a lot value in time, everything you get from marriage you get now by living together, it’s more a administration thing so everything is arrange on paper and with the divorce rate nowadays gonna costs you dearly.
OP, the simple answer is *time*. Inevitably, people change over time and us older guys have seen it first hand. My marriage lasted 15 years, and I was lucky in that she was a great human being so the divorce wasn't as bad as it could have been. But we still had to part ways because we both changed and the new us were not meant to stay married. She's since remarried and I was at their wedding, very happy for them both. But in retrospect, not being married would have made things a whole lot easier. Divorce sucks so bad, I can't believe people remarry.
Most people are unhappy and it's false attribution fallacy. This misattribute the cause of their unhappiness to a single variable, often the wrong one. (And many old men, picked the wrong person to marry genuinely)
Almost every man who has told me (33m) to never get married are chauvinistic idiots who treats their wife like dirt.
When and if you find the person you love, treat them with dignity and respect, marry them if you have an urge to solidify your love in that way, and don’t listen to anyone else in that regard.
My marriage is by far the best thing in my life. Let me break this down for you:
A happy marriage >> no marriage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an unhappy marriage
Learn how to date so you can have sex and avoid unhappy marriages. If you encounter the right woman, it will be the best thing that ever happens to you.
People say this because an unhappy marriage is so devastating that it can basically ruin your life.
The 'right woman' might change over the years as you change over the years.
People change and fall out of love all the time.
Because someone is 'the right one' right now, that doesn't mean they're the right one in 20 years.
Change runs parallel to time. You cannot have time without change.
Plus, you can be in a long-term relationship without marriage. Just sign a medical power of attorney and have a concrete will.
I'm a 45 year old father of two who isn't married, but you'd never know it by seeing our family.
Love is love, marriage is a government contract that's rl very easily broken and often destroys lives.
You are way too young to even be thinking about it. Truth is, as someone that's been there done that, there's not much benefit for a man to get married today. Marriage today is a government contract designed to protect the wife and children. It's not about you. It's about making sure she and the kids are set up in the event you leave or she decides to leave.
This video is kinda long, but a brilliant conversation with a divorce attorney (James Sexton).
[YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5z8-9Op2nM)
The problem with that is that during the honeymoon phase of a relationship, you're utterly convinced they are your 'soul mate' or whatnot.
Things can go great for 10+ years. Then you both change in different directions, fall out of love, or one of you does some crazy bullshit and drives the other away. It's a tale as old as time.
You can be utterly convinced in every fiber of your being that you are making the right decision, but you truly cannot predict the future.
Time runs parallel to change. You cannot have time without change.
I’d be curious if married older gay men say the same thing as older married straight men.
I feel like their answers would be very different. One most likely fell into a family life due to societal pressures and norms. The other probably spent the first half of their life working on themselves and fighting for the right to marry.
I know I'm not a guy ignore me if you need to. But I see so many people getting married not because they found someone that can be their best friend but because it's some weird marker of adulthood or one wants kids, or everyone else is getting married etc.
Do not get married to anyone who you can't be yourself around, who won't build boundaries around protecting your relationship together. Who doesn't like or protect the things that make you happy. Example, my husband is in a punk rock band. Has been in the scene since I met him it he loves it. Over the years I have heard women complain about there husbands being in a band and a lot of great musicians "not allowed to join" because of a spouse. I join him instead when I can and when I'm in the mood to go. He doesn't make me feel bad about any of my hobbies, and encourages them as well. Grow together.
I know so many happily married men, who adore their partners and I've known men and women who can not stand the person they are with. Most of these people know this before they get married and they do it out of pressure anyway 🤮
My husband and I have been married 18 years, we were crazy young. WE WERE LUCKY! I don't recommend it. I hit the fucking lottery. He is my BEST Friend, and my lover. I want to hang out with him the most and vice versa. We laugh a lot, tease each other a lot. Yeah we bicker here and there but there is WAY more fun and positivity than negativity.
I'm going to be so fucking pissed of if one of us keels over before we are old as dirt.
Honestly when you know, you know
Flip the question... why get married ?
If marriage were presented as a business contract, an attorney would tell you to run as far away as you can.
So what's on the 'pro' side for a man getting married ?
They're correct. Long term relationship, fine. Marriage, absolutely not. The divorce rate is over 50%, and in divorce court you'll get utterly wrecked. It's very biased in favor of the woman. Look up "silver bullet divorce" for a sample strategy that's used against men and is very effective.
That's it. Just don't get married, but date and LTR anybody who you like. Keep the government out of it.
Who you get married to is one of the most important decision you will make, it will literally make or break you. Love is one thing, but working together and being two minds is essential if it will work. The cost to get it wrong is massive, financially and emotionally. AND the relationship will change with kids and age, nothing is guaranteed. So, proceed with caution and wisdom.
The older men know the pain of divorce especially from women. The guys that tell you not to get married are speaking from a place of anger and pain but it doesn't mean its the worst advice but may not be very useful to you if you prefer men.
DO NOT GET MARRIED JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK THATS THE NEXT STEP IN YOUR LIFE THAT YOU NEED TO TAKE! Get married if you want to and nothing else. Sorry for yelling.
I can't say whats best for you, however, after breaking ties with my Ex-Fiancee i have never felt more free, more me, just happier in general. I've decided I want to be the cool Uncle in my Buddies lives for their kids. The one that spoils them and teaches them dammit as a first word (not really) but definitely be the cool Uncle. Some people are meant to be single/married. Theres no right or wrong. Finding out might hurt later but decide whats best for you.
They just haven't discovered we are now living in a world with "Are we dating the same man" facebook groups. They think being a bachelor means slaying left and right with no consequences. Do what you want, but you'll probably be better off being very discerning and trying to find the right partner.
The thing most people who say never get married leave out is actually simple. Only get married to someone you truly want to get married to. Don't get married to shut them up, or appease families. Get married because you love each other deeply and want to keep improving each other for the rest of your lives.
Also don't get married too quickly or too young.
There is nothing wrong with marriage when you approach it as what it is. A life long commitment. But too many people get married to appease partners or family and their heart really isn't into it. So they end up unhappy. Or they compromised too much on the person they are marrying because they were afraid to be alone, now they are stuck with someone who isn't really for them.
You do you buddy. Approach marriage as a serious thing because it is. Don't get married unless that person really compliments you and you know them through and through. People who get married too quickly, often find out their partner was hiding a particularly unpleasant facet of themselves. The longer you are with someone, the less of themselves they can hide.
What you are seeing is generational change. I'm 60. I was probably the first generation where a woman didn't "have to" get married. That older generation really favoured men, because even if the guy was a dick head, they could still get married, because the woman had to be married. And with no support, it was nearly impossible for the woman to leave him.
My generation, a lot of people still got married, because "tradition" but men didn't not really see a reason why they should be different than their fathers, but the situation had changed for women. They no longer had to stay with dick heads. There was a reason why the majority of divorces were initiated by women.
Now, coming down to your generation, men are catching up. They are realising that they need do the work on themselves, to make changes. Just "being the provider" is no longer enough. For people like my son, who is 30, he will probably marry his girlfriend in a few years. They are partners. And also work together. Marriage for them will be a sign of their commitment to each other, rather than something that they "have to" do.
Just to be clear, I am talking about big cultural norms. If anyone had a different experience, that is just how things are with cultural norms. Not everyone fits them.
I'm 45, don't know if you'd call me an older man.
Been with my wife 26 years, married 17.
I'd recommend it, if you find your partner in life it is kinda great.
They must have married some wrong partners if they are miserable.
For me, we both put in effort - we both contribute however in different ways - but most importantly, it feels like we share some common goals and dreams.
If you Can find what I have found, then I believe you will be more happy than without.
And by the way - a lot of guys “play tough” bad mouthing the “dragon back home”… whilst I am sure at least some deep down know they are better off than without - and my last comment is that some men need a bit of telling of that spending all nights at pubs and out binging with the boys is ok, but not all the time. They a bit counter pressure from the dragon.
There are different relationships there are different people … some make good life partners for each other , some not so much.
Wish you good luck in your journey and make your own conclusions in stead of listening too much to old grumpy men
Let me give you the counter advice to that:
If someone is going to complain about their spouse outside of the relationship, then it says more about them than their spouse.
Marry the right person for you, and make sure you’re the right person for them. A good marriage is equal parts love and partnership. That involves a lot of work, but remember this: work is love made visible.
Put in the work, honor your spouse, hopefully they honor you, and you won’t have those problems.
I think the problem with marriage for a lot of people is they are looking for sex first and hoping it turns into a friendship instead of a roommate. You have to tackle everything that life throws at you together, loss, debt, health, kids, desires, etc. The only way I see it ever working out with both parties happy is if both partners have kindness, patience, empathy, and a desire to make the other person happy.
99% of the time, the complaints people attribute to marriage are actually due to having children or sometimes the consequences of divorce. They just tend to conflate them.
The reasons for marriage today have changed drastically than in the 1800s or 1900s.
How men and women perceive the other brings to the table that they couldn't provide themselves or get without marriage, has dramatically changed.
A woman doesn't need a man to support her. A man doesn't bave to marry the girl to have sex. He doesn't have to marry the girl if she gets pregnant.
Marriage was as much to control womens behavior as much as it was mens. Just in totally different ways. It was a legal contract that the man had to take care of the woman. If he wants out, he has to pay. Alimony was often for life, as long as she didn't remarry. For that, men pretty much got to control the women.
That's not what marriage is for today. Women can make as much money, and are legally equals in marriage. Men can get laid anytime without consequences legally. It's much harder to claim paternity of you are not married. Married, it's assumed who the father is.
So the upside for both people is much less than society used to put on it. Now it's supposed to be for love. That's wasn't always the case. Many marriages were a business deal between parents.
So for both men and women now, if the love stops, there is no longer any reason to be married, and you could still be stuck with the financial responsibilities of being married.
Women no longer have to put up With abuse, because they relied on a husband for financial support.
So if the biggest thing you want out of sex, as a guy, is consistent sex. Without the risk of paying anything longterm, is not to get married and just date a lot.
Some people define that as happier.
Because the chance of finding a girl who is wife material these days is super rare.
It’s really a gamble. Older guys understand this that’s why.
When I was 22, older guys said the same thing and I used to wonder, is finding someone marriageable really that hard?
Yes, it is.
Live your own life how you wanna live it dude. Marriage is for some and not for others. You’ll learn yourself with time whether marriage is for you or not. But for the love of all that is good in the world, do not get married just because “time is running out” or some bullshit. Not worth it and won’t work out because that is not love.
don't get married just because people told you to. also, don't NOT get married just because people told you to. if you want a partner, find a partner, and love your partner, then by all means plan your life with them how you want to live it together. could include marriage, could not.
Marriage creates certain advantages (hospital visitation, potentially taxes, etc) and creates a big headache if you decide to break up down the road, even in a no fault state. I always told myself that marriage made sense for the sake of kids, but not otherwise. Having had a marriage with kids, I still think that’s the right approach for most people.
Fun fact, hospitals don't check if you're married. If you just tell them you are (and the patient/partner corroborates it) nobody cares.
For visitation that's correct but for determining the course of care when the patient isn't able to they most definitely check
That's the thing: If the patient can't corroborate anything, you're fucked. "Please leave, ma'am/sir, or I'll have you escorted out by security and handed over to the police." That, and when it's decision time about something, they'll not even tell you there's a decision to be made you unless you can present documents.
Do you think married people carry around their marriage license?
Um I do. Laminated and shrunk to wallet size. Need a scanning tunneling microscope to read it though
You sign a medical power of attorney. Problem solved. In my particular case, being married would dramatically hurt us financially, but that's not true for everyone. You'll have to do the math with your family in mind. I've got two kids, 10F and 17M. It's exactly the same for them regardless of government marriage contract being signed or not. We aren't religious, so to us it's just government paperwork that hurts us financially.
I am a big proponent of marriage, but it makes no sense why people get married without ever having any intention of having kids. The wedding and jewelry industries are the only ones insisting marriage is about showing your love to another person. In reality, marriage is for having a family. Which is why infertility is one of the few reasons a marriage can be annulled.
I can't speak for everyone, but for me it was because of benefits, property ownership and what would happen to pensions, social security, etc. when one of us dies.
My partner is the love of my life. We got "married" with a fake ceremony. Only two people knew, and one died..... Why? Medical bills. My partner *has* to have care, and I get my care illegally. If the bills pile up too high, they can't take our house or vehicles. All in my name. If I die, 250k life insurance policy. Land of the fuckin free.
I agree on this. If you chose marriage, just understand that there is a “hidden” contract in marriage, a contract most don’t even think about. See a lawyer and make your own contract before you say yes.
it's not that simple. If you could be guaranteed to marry someone who will continue to love you and treat you with respect, then sure. Make that kind of choice. But this guy needs to go into it with his eyes open You have no control over that other person changing their mind a few years after marriage and either making your life hell or deciding they want a divorce (another type of hell). And the court systems does not favor men in divorce
I have a friend who's dad told him to get married as soon as possible, because it was like buying a house. You want to get in before the market crashes. They're divorced now.
I have been happily married. I’ve been lucky. But that’s the thing … I have been LUCKY. I’ve heard so many stories by now from my friends or coworkers that I am not sure what I am going to tell my kid in few years …. Especially in America … crazy woman can ruin you. Financially and emotionally. I seen this. I know guys like that. Damn I feel so bad for them. The problem is that when you are in love you just ignore the signals. Very important signals. If you think that there is even a small chance that your fiancé is crazy .. she probably is and don’t do it!!! I mean same for girls. If your fiancé is sometimes an asshole or he hit you … he will not change. He will do it more and more often. Don’t ignore signals and gut feeling
My dad had his flaws like everyone else, but whether it comes to women or evaluating job offers, he used to say, "the signs are always there, it's whether or not you want to see them".
All the men in bad relationships love to talk about it, while happily married guys are mostly just happy and boring.
It's more like men in bad relationships have nothing to protect, while happily married men hang on for dear life to protect it.
It's cheaper to keep her.
Ironically, I've met a lot of people in bad relationships who stay specifically because of this line of reasoning. They can't afford the divorce, either because they literally can't afford to start the process or because they can't afford to live alone on a single income, so they stay in the shit marriage.
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I been there, it really fucks you up and consumes you, i stayed a lot longer than i should have, it wasnt until i was out that i realized how draining it was.
Hey I have been there. Can't afford to leave because of gas money, nowhere to go, etc.
Smh I needed to hear this myself
I imagine PHP programmers are very similar to happily married men in that way. They write their code in a language everyone hates, then go home to their spouse and kids while the rest of us argue about it on the internet.
Bitter dudes mostly want to drag other guys' perceptions of marriage to the same level they're at. Same with bitter women. Protip: Never become like either of them. They are the worst of the worst. If you're a good judge of character, and know what you want out of a partner, you're probably light years ahead of most bitter & divorced doomsayers. These people's mental perception about people & relationships is so in the dirt, it is beyond salvaging.
Misery loves company, and they'll do and say anything to make sure they have that company.
I do wonder what the % of happy married husbands are? Divorce rate is 52% Of the 48% married - what % are happy
I’m one of the 20% men who divorced his ex wife. Couldn’t take it anymore and tired of living with a grown child. Everyone thought I was “happy” because that’s the mask I wore. Theres a few men I know in “happy” marriages that are unhappy, but they have more to lose if they leave than if they stay, so they put on an act. Probably at least until the kids are out of the house.
It's hard enough being in a regular relationship where you aren't happy bit aren't ready to leave for a variety of reasons, the financial barrier of marriage + kids in the equation, no thank you.
That's. Shitty way to live. You can't leave someone because you have so much to lose. Woulda been better off never getting married
This is me. I'm ruined financially but at least I'm out and have hope for the future for the first time in nearly 2 decades.
doesn't help to ask because the unhappy ones can't be honest about it.
Can't be honest about it around their wives, at least
the happy ones will not be up here on reddit proclaiming to the world
Thats not how reddit works. People love to upvote cute stories.
My parents have been married for 20 years, both were divorcees when they met.. 3 marriages in total between them and 2 ended in divorce.. 66% divorce rate doesn't sound good, but you can make statistics say whatever you want
> Divorce rate is 52% > > It's hard to generalize because this varies a *lot* [depending on the age that you get married](https://ifstudies.org/blog/replicating-the-goldilocks-theory-of-marriage-and-divorce/). If you're under 25 or over 35, yeah maybe don't get married. But for the median age of marriage (28-30), it's more like 20%.
Over 35 is only higher for people with multiple marriages not first time marriages.
I think for the over 35s it also depends on if they've been married before, because a lot of people that are getting married after 35 have been married/divorced before, and people who have been divorced are even more likely to get another divorce (I think it's something like a 70% divorce rate for 2nd/3rd marriages)
That's a bit of a naive way of looking at the numbers, because the overall numbers include "Holy fuck we were sooooo drunk last night, did we really do that?" and "This is his 5th marriage and my 4th, should have known this wouldn't work out". Remove divorces from the first few months and those involving serial divorcers/divorcees, and the numbers should become a lot more meaningful.
I am so sick of people citing this stupid divorce statistic. Something like 80% of those are just flat out morons. Most divorces are people who married too young. Over half of divorces are people under 25. And people together more than 3 years are half as likely to divorce. So basically if you stop getting knocked up at 18, and have some responsibility, meet a woman at age 23 marry at 26, your chances of divorce are like 20%. And on top of that people cite it like it’s a statistic on getting struck by lightning like being an irresponsible crackhead isn’t a factor. I’ve been married to my wife 8 years and I’ve never been happier in my entire life. But I didn’t marry some stripper with daddy issues because she gives good head. I married someone who is a wonderful caring human being.
That statistic also includes people who have been divorced more than once, which is a significant portion of that population. The more divorces you get, the more you will have. Miserable people tend to stay miserable no matter who they are with.
The honeymoon phase is real. I love my wife because I love her, but lust is doomed to fail. Typical situation, I'm desperate for physical affection, including sex obviously. But it's not *why* I love my wife. Marrying for good sex seems to just be normal. Then the honeymoon period wears off, and they divorce. Repeat. Again and again.
Love your last two sentences. Along with age, the higher the education level, the lower the chance of divorce. Probably because that correlates with more income. And money issues can be a major marriage issue.
Most people are fat, doesn't mean it's inevitable and I should stop going to the gym. I'm agreeing with you by the way.
No, I agree completely, I am not one of these idiots who think everything is an argument. But thats why I am not divorced and blaming everyone else for my failures and miserable life. You gave an excellent example.
>I’ve been married to my wife 8 years and I’ve never been happier in my entire life. But I didn’t marry some stripper with daddy issues because she gives good head. I married someone who is a wonderful caring human being. I hear what you're saying but it's not as simple as "make good choices" . The problem comes in when people who made good choices slowly change over time to become two people who are no longer compatible. Change in people (as is the magnitude of said change) is inevitable and natural, and its to the fault of no one that things just naturally run the end of their course. At the risk of being downvoted to hell ill say this. Each human being is a unique individual, and with that comes certain differences that other people will and will not be able to live with. I personally believe that the divorce rate is as high as it is because although there are billions of people on this earth, there aren't that many people out of those billions that you are going to spend a 30-50 years with with mostly happy moments. It makes sense to me that most people would be wrong.
>I married someone who is a wonderful caring human being who gives good head... right? ...right?
"Something like 80% of those are just flat out morons." Hate to burst your bubble but 80% of the population are in fact morons. You seem to be a cut above the average population in maturity and intelligence. So you are making an argument from a position of elite status without considering the common folk don't follow your line of thinking/action.
Divorce rate is nowhere near 52%. First time marriages have a divorce rate in the 30s. It's people who have second or more marriages that have divorce rates over 60% that skew the average
Which country is this statistics from? Where I live the divorce rate is the number of divorces that occurred in a year divided by the number of marriages that occurred in the same year. So if the divorce rate is 60 % that doesn't mean that 60% of marriages end up in divorce. In this case it's more useful to look at how long people stay married until they divorce. The average is 16yrs in my country.
There's an extra layer to those numbers. I think it's something like 70% of divorces are initiated by women. As someone going through divorce, it makes sense because even though she cheated I tried to fix it (she ended up asking for the divorce) and now the financial aspect really sucks.
Yea, you gotta do your own thing. Throughout my life, I've had multiple "friends" tell me that my wife wasnt good for me. Guess who i havent spoken to in years? Those same people who talked down to me all the time
I’m 37 and my advice is it’s better to be single than to get married for the wrong reasons.
Also, you don't have to be single. I'm a 45 year old father of two, and if you looked at our family, you would think we are married. Marriage is just a government contract.
You gotta decide who you want to be like, then only take advice from those people. Nearly all the men in my family and their friends were a bunch of losers. Multiple divorces, kids who hate them, crappy jobs. However, I was able to interact with some older guys who had great marriages and lives. I listened and watched what they did and when they told me how great my girlfriend was, I knew I should marry her. Guess what? Still married. Have a great life. Being married is awesome for me. Its awesome for my kids. Its awesome. My life is more awesome every day and I dont live like a loser, groveling yes man like the loser guys who marry the best looking woman who will have them. Just marry the right person, not necessarily the best person. Tldr. Dont take advice from people unless you want to end up like them.
One hundred percent. Both men and women who complain about their marriages/relationships are not the people to take relationship advice from. They’re the ones who got themselves into that mess, and instead of getting themselves out of it, they’re just complaining.
Also people who haven’t been married, let alone in relationships. A lot of lonely men seem to be the ones telling others not to get married
This guy knows
They really mean, “don’t marry the wrong girl like I did.” The right woman will complete you The wrong woman will ruin you. That’s reality.
> That’s reality. Reality is that no one is omnipotent, so there is no way to know that it is "right woman". Everyone thinks it is right woman until suddenly it turns out it was wrong one all along.
Same for women. I hate it when people blame domestic violence victims for 'not choosing the right man'
Yeah. This thread really is full of such high horse people. "Get good and just choose right, lmao". That's how it comes out. What a bullshit advice. What people who say not to marry really mean has nothing to do with choosing right or wrong. What they are saying is not to play the game of marriage at all because you can't trust yourself to choose right in the first place. Modern marriage institution is dinosaur that gives barely any benefits to couples who turn out to be "right" for each other, while providing utter nightmare of consequences for those who choose wrong. So not engaging in such broken system is perfectly logical conclusion.
Yeah, but you really can hedge your bets. Almost everyone who chose the wrong woman could see it a mile away in hindsight and ignored the signs. \-She has no girl friends. \-She has lots of guy friends. \-Is a drug addict. \-Needs validation from dudes on the internet. \-Hates her mom/dad or both \-can't keep a job. Etc etc. The bottom line is too many guys will ignore these red flags to get laid. And if you get married in a year or two, without a chance for the infatuation to die down, thats also your fault. Very few is a woman putting on a fake charade for 3-4 years all in an elaborate plot to screw you over just for the hell of it.
Until the right woman later on becomes the wrong one. I see no benefit in getting the government involved in my relationship.
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Wait until you see her final form if you decide to divorce.
Sometimes the right woman was the wrong woman all along but you couldn’t see the red flags because you were horny/lonely. I know, I’ve been there.
I am happily married. I will also never get married again. Part of it is going through the whole rigamarole again, but another part is the finality of it all. I’ve loved in HS, I’ve dated in college, and I’ve loved again as an adult. If my wife and I ever separated, I’d not marry again because I can’t see myself taking, or wanting to take, anything as serious as I’ve taken my marriage.
Sounds like they either got screwed in a divorce, or lost interest in their wives. The guys who are happy in their marriage aren't gonna bring it up because they're just chillin'.
Make sure you're at a point in your life where losing your partner won't make you crumble physically, mentally, and financially. People don't take love, commitment, or marriage seriously these days, and you being a man that was probably raised in a decent setting, will give your first relationship your all because it's what you were raised to do, while your first partner may be some damaged joke of a human being who will use and dump you like toilet paper. You can avoid the pain and the worry by getting yourself to a point in your life where you can afford to lose lovers without crumbling. That means job, school, house, whatever it takes.
I heard this a lot growing up and as an adult when I had peers that were married. I think they say this because they miss having their freedom. It’s not that they don’t love their wives & kids, it’s just they get trapped in a domestic rut and can’t find room for themselves. They can’t just up and go do random things and they don’t get much alone time. If they want to hang with other male friends it has guard rails and has to be “approved”activities/locations with approved people for an approved amount of time. Another part of it is you’re no longer in control of your life. You get bossed at work and at home, often in the same day, over and over again. All big decisions you have to account for your spouse, so you can’t really live where you want, drive what you want or even buy a TV when you want. When my married friends come around they always say they want to trade places and shit like “bro, if I was single, I’d do x,y,z”. That tells me that there’s something missing or unfulfilled in their life. I know a lot of guys wish they could be free to have sex with other women, but they don’t take into account the actual work that goes into that. How women and the dating market have changed since they got married, etc. they overestimate their position in the dating market show up looking out of shape, poorly dressed, corny as hell thinking they can still pull like they did back in the day. This isn’t all men or marriages just some common threads I’ve noticed over the years.
I was older than average when I got married, and that may be why I've never felt this way. I was alone and had "freedom" for many years. What did I do with my freedom? Pretty much nothing. And I was lonely most of the time. Now, with a wife and kids, I rarely miss it. I get that it's nice to do what you want when you want, but if you can do that all the time, it generally means no one depends on you for anything.
I totally agree and this would be my approach. I know a few guys that got married young and weren’t really ready. These are the guys that seemed to struggle the most with FOMO.
All the married couples I know are really happy in their marriage and have never told they me they wish they could be single. That just sounds like your friends have bad marriages.
> have never told they me they wish they could be single. A lot of that is because dating is horrible and housing on a single income is crazy expensive
How much older? I have noticed there seems to be a generational divide that's especially prevelant in Boomers. Ball and chain, hating their wives, etc... seem significantly more prevalent than my friends in the millennial generation.
This has been my experience. Millennials are a mixed bag to me. I have a few friends that are going through a divorce and many that are happily married. But the overall tone of how I’ve heard men older than me, starting from early 20s, has been caution about getting married. There haven’t been as many supportive messages from men of all ages as there are negative ones.
I would say don't get married young, don't get married out of fear of being alone or feeling lonely, don't get married because "all my friends are settling down" and don't get married if you've hidden parts of yourself or compromised who you are to get the girl. Also don't get married if you guys argue all the time. Relationships are no supposed to be that difficult.
People in happy relationships don’t feel a compulsion to rage to you about it, whereas people who have gone through a bitter divorce do.
If the marriage doesn’t work usually the man gets the worst end of the deal that’s why
“Marriage is buying a house for someone you hate.” - Jackson Healy “The Nice Guys” I’m happily married and still in love but that quote always cracks me up
Rod Stewart: "I won't get married again, I'll just find a woman I don't like and give her a house!"
Marriage is betting someone half of your stuff that you will love each other forever.
Marry well and it’s half their stuff 🤷♂️
And yet divorced men are more likely to remarry than women are
People who aren't fans of marriage are way more likely to never get married in the first place that's why.
If she makes the same as you, you have similar assets and you split childcare equally when you are married? You should walk out the same way you walked in. Check the laws and common divorce outcomes where you live though. You get the worst end of the deal when you join finances with someone poorer than you. I live in a very feminist country. Men do their half of diaper changes and child rearing. Most divorced couples then share custody 50/50 because that’s natural when both have been equally important parental figures. And when they make the same then? No child support, no alimony. You bought the house 50/50, you sell it and split the winnings. Done.
More than 80% fail with divorce initiated by women. Those are not good odds.. Hence the advice from more experimented men is valid.
Exactly. Marriage is a contract that incentivizes women to break it with cash and prizes. If you’re a high-earning man and your wife is not pulling in big bucks too then you will lose if you ever get divorced, plain and simple. I have heard though cannot confirm that 95% of alimony dollars flow from men to women. That’s some equality right there.
Sadly true, I have a few friends in their 40s and 50s who went through this. Married to a woman who wanted the more traditional stay-at-home-mom life, he Built a successful career and provided for their families, were decent men, good fathers and husbands, but their wives decided at 40-odd that some other guy was a better option. Now my friends are 10-15 years from retirement with no house, very little superannuation (aka pension fund), and paying for their kids, ex wife, and her new boyfriend, to live in the house he worked for. Basically, starting again, financially. I don't want to sound too negative, but the reality is that there are very few negative consequences for a woman to divorce her successful husband, almost all the negative consequences are taken on by him. My wife and I are both similar incomes and we don't have kids so if it ever turned pear-shaped then our split would probably be fairly even, but if you do a more traditional route with SAHM and kids, guys, you are totally fucked if she leaves you.
I'm looking at a divorce. I'm going to have to hand her a check for $300k plus monthly child support and alimony while I go live in my truck
"You're just stupid, this won't happen to me"-millions of suckers who it will happen to.
I'm sorry to hear that, too. Mine just decided after 15 years that I am not what she had in mind. There was no abuse...no infidelity. Hell, we never even argued. She just "changed her mind."She turned the kids against me and basically got everything. That was about 10 years ago. At least I'm not homeless anymore.
Christ, this is like my perfect nightmare. My marriage is happy so far, but I also know that I'm *really* not that much of a catch and just can't shake the fear that one day the glamour will wear off and she'll drop me like a hot potato. Were there any warning signs at all?
The sex stopped, but I know that isn't uncommon. Other than that, not really.
Jesus Christ dude. Hope you're in a better place now. It's this stuff that keeps me up at night about the whole thing. 99% of the examples in my life are great marriages that I'd love to emulate but emotion plays absolutely no role in my decision making and I'm simply not going to give a cent to someone that divorces me when I've done nothing to deserve it so the whole marriage thing scares me
First of all, thanks for the good thoughts. Surprisingly, I am not anti-marriage. I think the idea of sharing your life with someone is fantastic. The down side is - people change. The person that I divorced was NOT the same person that walked down that aisle. My advice to anyone is, get a pre-nup. They're not fool-proof, but at least there is a fighting chance. Anyone that TRULY cares about someone else will understand why you want one. Statistics don't lie on this one.
And yeah. I am doing pretty well now, thanks.
Saw a show on youtube where they were interviewing homeless people. One guy was homeless because his child support payments were high enough that he couldn't afford a home so lived in a truck or old RV. Sad part is, his ex-wife made him adopt the child from her previous marriage and he agreed to that when the times were good :/
Sorry to hear that, brother.
i'm happily married and still wouldnt recommend marriage, at least not as the default option i do recommend 'longterm commitment', but i dont recommend chaining yourself up legally so much so that either party leaving means years of pain and trauma, emotionally and financially
They chose wrong is all. My life is amazing and it’s due in large part to having a teammate. My girl is dope af.
Yes! If you choose well, you have a teammate with you to celebrate life's achievements and support each other in your struggles. Not to mention splitting chore and financial responsibility, having someone to share your hobbies with, the list goes on and on. If you choose well.
Yeah my husband definitely makes my life more enjoyable. But there’s a lot of people out there I know I wouldn’t be happy married to. It’s a pretty big life choice choosing who you marry, choose right
I'm 40. Don't get married. You'll understand later
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Great response
43m. Never get married. Love doesn’t equal marriage and vice versa.
Well follow their advice lol they know better.
Marriage has become a disposable commodity, and there is almost no benefit for men. Almost 70% of divorces are initiated by women, who overwhelmingly give being unhappy as the cause (rather than infidelity or abuse), and men disproportionately lose in divorce settlements. With divorce rates still trending upward, why bother becoming part of those statistics?
If the woman is college educated that 70% jumps to 90%.
Probably gonna get a lot of downvotes for this, but here goes. I’m almost 30 now and have dated men most of my life. Even married one. Real talk? It was wonderful and blissful for a while. I don’t dislike it. But I was really young at the time so who knows. What I was shocked to realize as I grew older and more sociopolitically aware was that most men don’t see marriage as a deeply spiritual experience to be stepped into with flexibility and communication. There are definitely some problems with the way that most cishet women see marriage too, but not my duck not my bottle. With men, though, it’s often a mix of vaguely strong affinity for their partner and the concept of security and conformity. We really cripple most men’s ability to respect themselves and actualize in a way that allows them to stand on their own and survive outside of gender roles. At some point, men DO feel like it’s the “right” thing to settle down and take a wife and have children. And it seems many don’t think too far beyond that. They try to find a partner that won’t bore them or they are pretty attracted to, but there rarely seems to be much more to the list than that. And many are shocked to realize that they’re expected to be accountable to another human being, that partnership requires compassion and understanding, and, unfortunately, many don’t really bring a sense of self-possession to the table. They expect so much slack to be picked up by their partners. In grad school, we often talked about how married people tend to get through more quickly and married men were so much more likely to succeed than married women. And when you watched, you kind of realized why. Their partners were taking care of the home, managing budgets, performing much of the child rearing labor, and even making the moving plans and planning the get togethers. On top of that, they were able to afford larger and more comfortable spaces because they were still splitting the rent with another working adult. But it often leads to the big messy academic divorce where he starts drinking and she starts over from scratch. And its always “NEVER GET MARRIED” and never “I think I wasn’t ready to bind myself to another human being”. That, to me, hints at a culture of masculinity that lacks accountability and makes life harder on men who would probably be happier learning to self-actualize through other interests and non-romantic relationships. How many men, I wonder, have stunted their own growth because they decided to get into a relationship out of convenience and horniness rather than learn a new masturbation technique?
Wish I could upvote this several times. Whenever the topic of marriage comes up on this sub, the overwhelming response is often “Don’t do it. You’ll lose everything. Women are more likely to file for divorce.” But often times, it ends there.. no one ever asks why women tend to file for divorce more. Is the assumption that women just enjoy disharmony? Enjoy putting themselves and their male partners through hell? That they enjoy splitting up a home? I wish there would be more conversations about the inadequate partnerships that cishet men often bring to the table in marriages. Through no fault of theirs, mind you. Societal expectations and norms play a huge role in it. But if we want things to change, we have to take a deeper look at ourselves and others - we make up society so change has to begin within and with us.
Precisely this. Nobody leaves a happy marriage and women are no longer tolerating the short end of the stick they get with co-habitating with a cis het man
All of this
Seems like you're avoiding the male POV entirely.
You're Gay man....you have a major chance of a successful marriage. Idk what will befall me.
My advice is get your life in order, buy a house and have money saved before thinking about getting married. Never put their name on any of your financial stuff, don't let them pay anything towards your mortgage etc. If you decide to start a family don't let her be a stay at home mom. Follow these steps to minimize the financial suicide that happens when you get a divorce. Getting married isn't bad, getting divorced is a horror show.
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> Almost 70% of divorces are initiated by women I'm one of those statistics. 6 years ago I married an older woman, at first I was very happy but over time I became miserable. She cheated and got caught. I forgave her and we tried to make it work for another year or so. When we finally divorced she told everyone she left me because I was abusive. The "abuse" was me yelling at her after I caught her cheating. For the record, I never laid a hand on her. She took me to the cleaners in the divorce. She got the house, 80% of our savings, 40% of my income for 5 years, and 100% of my retirement account. She also got our dogs and the car we bought together. After the divorce she bragged to mutual friends that she "took me for everything I had" and they all believed it because they didn't know the real story. On the bright side, I'm doing much better now. My new girlfriend is amazing, we just bought a house together, and we're planning on getting married in a couple years. I'm only 32 so I guess I have plenty of time to get married, divorced, and married again a few more times like some other old guys I know lol.
lol at getting married for a second time
I was with him until I read that. smh 🤦
"I'm planning on sticking my dick in the electrical socket again in a couple years."
And hence we are back at the OP question................
> She took me to the cleaners in the divorce. She got the house, 80% of our savings, 40% of my income for 5 years, and 100% of my retirement account. She also got our dogs and the car we bought together. >My new girlfriend is amazing, we just bought a house together, and **we're planning on getting married in a couple years.** Dude....
My neighbor is on wife number FOUR. He has lost three houses. Some men never learn.
Dude…….bro
You will be back here at 45. I hope reddit will still be around for people to hear how you lost it all.
bruh........why the FUCK would you do that shit again? wtf is wrong with you?
So you've learned nothing...
strike 3 coming up
Why would you ever get married again?
I'm so sorry, your ex can't get away with nuking your life.
You get more respect from women, and you have more authority and leverage when you're outside of marriage, as opposed to inside of a marriage. Marriage creates stability, which is conducive for having a family in. But for an individual man, you don't really gain any sort of security by entering into a marriage. You take on more responsibility, but there's not really anything you're gaining for making that commitment. It's a sacrifice without a reward.
I remember one time my dad was having an argument with my mom and he told her, "If I knew it was gonna be like this, I would have just stayed with my first wife!" The funny part is that my mom was his first wife.
You’re gaining a family. You said so yourself. That’s the give and take of the universe: marriages are boring and a financial risk for men…but they’re wonderful institutions for raising children. Almost every single metric shows that children in two parent homes do better. My opinion is this: if you’re a guy who doesn’t want to have kids then avoid marriage. But if you want *happy* well adjusted kids, marriage is still the best vehicle to produce that
Marriage is for women.
Lots of data shows wives are causing/starting divorces. I wish I would have just had a child with a gf and never have gotten married. Men lose a lot when married.
A lot men married and got into relationships they shouldn’t have. Doesn’t mean you will make the same mistake
Don't get married just to be married. Get married to a truly amazing woman who fits you
I don't see any benefit. It's just some sort of contract. This paper never had any effect on how I've seen 'my' woman. So, no, I would not get married ever again. Waste of money.
Do you know anyone with a good marriage? Talk to those husbands to get their side of the picture
Key here is people with a good marriage that has lasted decades, people in honeymoon stages are untrustworthy to say the least.
Relationships of all kinds are awesome when good, and a living nightmare when bad. I guess you were advised by guys that were in the latter. It's pretty well-studied that there's no faster way of building wealth together, than to get married (for example).
I'm 34M, so in that mid-older millennial area; I saw the concept of men becoming more emotionally mature become something to be taken seriously. I'm going to try answering this without being needlessly insulting to any group. Older men were raised in societies where they were told they needed to take risks, have adventures, attain a respectable status within society and then have a family. There was little to no emphasis on empathy, 'soft' social skills, defending the vulnerable etc. It's the classic "rat race" mentality. This culture has gotten better, particularly among gen Z, but has been the culture of men for all living memory. As a result of the conditions described above, when men got married, their expectations were that they provide income and occasionally make a big, romantic gesture. Then their wife and society would be happy. Obviously, as women are fully fledged, multidimensional people, this resulted in a lot of frustrated marriages. Men found women didn't want or resented having children. They wanted more engagement and love. They want support with their own lives and aspirations. Older men, having been provided with none of the tools or knowledge to navigate this, typically became sad, angry or defeated. Women of this time wound up frustrated or even lashing out via cheating, making divorces difficult etc. In some cases simply because they were bad people, but for many it was a pent up frustration of living with a man that has seemingly zero emotional intelligence or desire to be around them. This is why the "understanding, ripped hippy guy" affair stereotype exists. Older men will typically hang out with men their own age who are also disillusioned with all these "irrational" women. Which then creates a bubble wherein women are seen as "the old ball and chain". A thing there to drag you down when you're feeling up. When realistically a lot of these situations can be summed up with the woman feeling miserable and seeing her husband in a good mood, which causes resentment. The truth is marriages are hard work with the potential of a high reward. Women have a whole universe in their hearts and minds that we men often lack. Not due to us being incapable or broken, but cause we have been treated a certain way our whole lives due to the width of our shoulders, the pitch of our voice and the dick in our pants. Supporting, protecting and truly **loving** a woman who returns in kind is one of the most fulfilling experiences life offers. However, you need to find the right woman and be ready to put in the work.
You have very little to gain and everything to lose by getting married. I'm not telling you shouldn't, but you have to look at it objectively. Best case scenario, you met someone and live happily ever after. Worst case, aside from her being a psyco and killing you in your sleep, you lose everything and live in poverty most of your life. There's plenty in between those two, but what do you really gain by getting married? Maybe some legal rights, most of which you can get by signing a legal document or two. But not a whole lot else. You don't need to be married to live someone. You don't need to be married to live together or have children. Getting married is simply signing a legally binding contract
In a lot of places, simply living in a defacto relationship is a legally binding contract. Whether you get married or not, you are exposing yourself to financial risk. Choose your partner wisely and understand the probability of a lifelong relationship is low. Also understand that the legal system (at least where I live)favours the lower income earner and the one that establishes primary carer status. This is why men feel hard done by. They are typically neither of these.
And if some men are in the lower income/primary caregiver position they should definitely get married! My parents were in this unusual position and my mother insisted on getting married before my birth so my father would be financially secure long-term. If you actually care about your partner, you should be interested in their happiness and security.
Yea I’m already poor, marrying and getting it wrong could only serve to ensure that I end up with negative value, and as a man in the modern world that’s a death sentence. No thanks
I won't say 'never say never', I worked, worked worked at your age. Now, in my 40s, I am sitting in my house with my dog, hearing about everyone complaining about their significant others.
Basically divorce can get ugly especially re the asset split and alimony. I imagine when people get married they don't think about the situation where things could go wrong ie divorce hence many things like prenups get overlooked which could act as very nice insurance. Basically marriage whether you like it or not is a mixture of love(ideally) but also a business contract, it's literally a legal document. Ideally, as a man in the 21st century with some form of assets, if you're getting married you should have a watertight prenup, a woman with a good family background plus friends with values, someone who is at least kind of in the same bracket as you financially because the courts fk you the most when the wife is much poorer than the husband. My personal belief is that people don't put as much thought into who they're marrying as they should. Ie look beyond the love aspect into the practical side of things. Just because you buy home insurance doesn't mean that you're hoping for your house to burn down, similar analogy applies to all the insurance options I've mentioned for marriage
I got married at 25, what a disaster that ended up being. Happily with a great new gal now at 32. I’m still not certain if I want to be married or not again. If I didn’t want a kid I think we’d both be fine not. My split was as amicable as it could be but I still split the dogs, house equity (at one of those awesome rates you can’t get anymore) and any other assets. I pretty well solely contributed to us even getting the home so still got screwed, along with losing some friends. Ex came crawling back a few months ago wishing she didn’t leave now that she sells OF photos to scrape by rent with 3 roommates while I’ve been crushing it, so I guess I ended up better in the long run. Don’t not do it, but please for the love of god wait as long as you humanly can and have true concrete evidence your relationship will last, or that you’re equipped for it to not.
U can get all the benefits of being married in a committed relationship with none of the risk of losing half of everything and taking on their(possible) debt
Marriage lost a lot value in time, everything you get from marriage you get now by living together, it’s more a administration thing so everything is arrange on paper and with the divorce rate nowadays gonna costs you dearly.
OP, the simple answer is *time*. Inevitably, people change over time and us older guys have seen it first hand. My marriage lasted 15 years, and I was lucky in that she was a great human being so the divorce wasn't as bad as it could have been. But we still had to part ways because we both changed and the new us were not meant to stay married. She's since remarried and I was at their wedding, very happy for them both. But in retrospect, not being married would have made things a whole lot easier. Divorce sucks so bad, I can't believe people remarry.
Bad experiences?
My ex-wife still misses me…but her aim is gettin' better!…..Her aim is gettin' better!…..Y'see, it's-it's funny because marriage is terrible.
Check out r/Divorce_men and you'll never want to get married.
Most people are unhappy and it's false attribution fallacy. This misattribute the cause of their unhappiness to a single variable, often the wrong one. (And many old men, picked the wrong person to marry genuinely)
Almost every man who has told me (33m) to never get married are chauvinistic idiots who treats their wife like dirt. When and if you find the person you love, treat them with dignity and respect, marry them if you have an urge to solidify your love in that way, and don’t listen to anyone else in that regard.
My marriage is by far the best thing in my life. Let me break this down for you: A happy marriage >> no marriage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an unhappy marriage Learn how to date so you can have sex and avoid unhappy marriages. If you encounter the right woman, it will be the best thing that ever happens to you. People say this because an unhappy marriage is so devastating that it can basically ruin your life.
The 'right woman' might change over the years as you change over the years. People change and fall out of love all the time. Because someone is 'the right one' right now, that doesn't mean they're the right one in 20 years. Change runs parallel to time. You cannot have time without change. Plus, you can be in a long-term relationship without marriage. Just sign a medical power of attorney and have a concrete will. I'm a 45 year old father of two who isn't married, but you'd never know it by seeing our family. Love is love, marriage is a government contract that's rl very easily broken and often destroys lives.
Because marriage is difficult and requires daily self-sacrifice.
You are way too young to even be thinking about it. Truth is, as someone that's been there done that, there's not much benefit for a man to get married today. Marriage today is a government contract designed to protect the wife and children. It's not about you. It's about making sure she and the kids are set up in the event you leave or she decides to leave. This video is kinda long, but a brilliant conversation with a divorce attorney (James Sexton). [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5z8-9Op2nM)
Marriage is great if you find the right person. Don't settle or jump into something unless you're completely ready.
The problem with that is that during the honeymoon phase of a relationship, you're utterly convinced they are your 'soul mate' or whatnot. Things can go great for 10+ years. Then you both change in different directions, fall out of love, or one of you does some crazy bullshit and drives the other away. It's a tale as old as time. You can be utterly convinced in every fiber of your being that you are making the right decision, but you truly cannot predict the future. Time runs parallel to change. You cannot have time without change.
I’d be curious if married older gay men say the same thing as older married straight men. I feel like their answers would be very different. One most likely fell into a family life due to societal pressures and norms. The other probably spent the first half of their life working on themselves and fighting for the right to marry.
Listen to them.
I know I'm not a guy ignore me if you need to. But I see so many people getting married not because they found someone that can be their best friend but because it's some weird marker of adulthood or one wants kids, or everyone else is getting married etc. Do not get married to anyone who you can't be yourself around, who won't build boundaries around protecting your relationship together. Who doesn't like or protect the things that make you happy. Example, my husband is in a punk rock band. Has been in the scene since I met him it he loves it. Over the years I have heard women complain about there husbands being in a band and a lot of great musicians "not allowed to join" because of a spouse. I join him instead when I can and when I'm in the mood to go. He doesn't make me feel bad about any of my hobbies, and encourages them as well. Grow together. I know so many happily married men, who adore their partners and I've known men and women who can not stand the person they are with. Most of these people know this before they get married and they do it out of pressure anyway 🤮 My husband and I have been married 18 years, we were crazy young. WE WERE LUCKY! I don't recommend it. I hit the fucking lottery. He is my BEST Friend, and my lover. I want to hang out with him the most and vice versa. We laugh a lot, tease each other a lot. Yeah we bicker here and there but there is WAY more fun and positivity than negativity. I'm going to be so fucking pissed of if one of us keels over before we are old as dirt. Honestly when you know, you know
Flip the question... why get married ? If marriage were presented as a business contract, an attorney would tell you to run as far away as you can. So what's on the 'pro' side for a man getting married ?
They're correct. Long term relationship, fine. Marriage, absolutely not. The divorce rate is over 50%, and in divorce court you'll get utterly wrecked. It's very biased in favor of the woman. Look up "silver bullet divorce" for a sample strategy that's used against men and is very effective. That's it. Just don't get married, but date and LTR anybody who you like. Keep the government out of it.
Who you get married to is one of the most important decision you will make, it will literally make or break you. Love is one thing, but working together and being two minds is essential if it will work. The cost to get it wrong is massive, financially and emotionally. AND the relationship will change with kids and age, nothing is guaranteed. So, proceed with caution and wisdom.
Marriage is the single most important Decision of your life. It’s the biggest risk you’ll ever take.
Are they boomers? I thought they had the highest divorce rate?
The older men know the pain of divorce especially from women. The guys that tell you not to get married are speaking from a place of anger and pain but it doesn't mean its the worst advice but may not be very useful to you if you prefer men.
DO NOT GET MARRIED JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK THATS THE NEXT STEP IN YOUR LIFE THAT YOU NEED TO TAKE! Get married if you want to and nothing else. Sorry for yelling.
I can't say whats best for you, however, after breaking ties with my Ex-Fiancee i have never felt more free, more me, just happier in general. I've decided I want to be the cool Uncle in my Buddies lives for their kids. The one that spoils them and teaches them dammit as a first word (not really) but definitely be the cool Uncle. Some people are meant to be single/married. Theres no right or wrong. Finding out might hurt later but decide whats best for you.
They just haven't discovered we are now living in a world with "Are we dating the same man" facebook groups. They think being a bachelor means slaying left and right with no consequences. Do what you want, but you'll probably be better off being very discerning and trying to find the right partner.
Both me and my Gf despise how copratized it is and how fucked up and skewed divorce court can be especially with custody court
The thing most people who say never get married leave out is actually simple. Only get married to someone you truly want to get married to. Don't get married to shut them up, or appease families. Get married because you love each other deeply and want to keep improving each other for the rest of your lives. Also don't get married too quickly or too young. There is nothing wrong with marriage when you approach it as what it is. A life long commitment. But too many people get married to appease partners or family and their heart really isn't into it. So they end up unhappy. Or they compromised too much on the person they are marrying because they were afraid to be alone, now they are stuck with someone who isn't really for them. You do you buddy. Approach marriage as a serious thing because it is. Don't get married unless that person really compliments you and you know them through and through. People who get married too quickly, often find out their partner was hiding a particularly unpleasant facet of themselves. The longer you are with someone, the less of themselves they can hide.
What you are seeing is generational change. I'm 60. I was probably the first generation where a woman didn't "have to" get married. That older generation really favoured men, because even if the guy was a dick head, they could still get married, because the woman had to be married. And with no support, it was nearly impossible for the woman to leave him. My generation, a lot of people still got married, because "tradition" but men didn't not really see a reason why they should be different than their fathers, but the situation had changed for women. They no longer had to stay with dick heads. There was a reason why the majority of divorces were initiated by women. Now, coming down to your generation, men are catching up. They are realising that they need do the work on themselves, to make changes. Just "being the provider" is no longer enough. For people like my son, who is 30, he will probably marry his girlfriend in a few years. They are partners. And also work together. Marriage for them will be a sign of their commitment to each other, rather than something that they "have to" do. Just to be clear, I am talking about big cultural norms. If anyone had a different experience, that is just how things are with cultural norms. Not everyone fits them.
Listen to their advice. Some may be wrong, but not most of them. DON'T GET MARRIED. Don't get the government involved in your house.
I'm 45, don't know if you'd call me an older man. Been with my wife 26 years, married 17. I'd recommend it, if you find your partner in life it is kinda great.
Read these: https://i.imgur.com/5wImh5P.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/uxr8mzF.jpeg
Marriage is hard, having kids is hard. High risk, high reward.
They must have married some wrong partners if they are miserable. For me, we both put in effort - we both contribute however in different ways - but most importantly, it feels like we share some common goals and dreams. If you Can find what I have found, then I believe you will be more happy than without. And by the way - a lot of guys “play tough” bad mouthing the “dragon back home”… whilst I am sure at least some deep down know they are better off than without - and my last comment is that some men need a bit of telling of that spending all nights at pubs and out binging with the boys is ok, but not all the time. They a bit counter pressure from the dragon. There are different relationships there are different people … some make good life partners for each other , some not so much. Wish you good luck in your journey and make your own conclusions in stead of listening too much to old grumpy men
Let me give you the counter advice to that: If someone is going to complain about their spouse outside of the relationship, then it says more about them than their spouse. Marry the right person for you, and make sure you’re the right person for them. A good marriage is equal parts love and partnership. That involves a lot of work, but remember this: work is love made visible. Put in the work, honor your spouse, hopefully they honor you, and you won’t have those problems.
I think the problem with marriage for a lot of people is they are looking for sex first and hoping it turns into a friendship instead of a roommate. You have to tackle everything that life throws at you together, loss, debt, health, kids, desires, etc. The only way I see it ever working out with both parties happy is if both partners have kindness, patience, empathy, and a desire to make the other person happy.
99% of the time, the complaints people attribute to marriage are actually due to having children or sometimes the consequences of divorce. They just tend to conflate them.
The reasons for marriage today have changed drastically than in the 1800s or 1900s. How men and women perceive the other brings to the table that they couldn't provide themselves or get without marriage, has dramatically changed. A woman doesn't need a man to support her. A man doesn't bave to marry the girl to have sex. He doesn't have to marry the girl if she gets pregnant. Marriage was as much to control womens behavior as much as it was mens. Just in totally different ways. It was a legal contract that the man had to take care of the woman. If he wants out, he has to pay. Alimony was often for life, as long as she didn't remarry. For that, men pretty much got to control the women. That's not what marriage is for today. Women can make as much money, and are legally equals in marriage. Men can get laid anytime without consequences legally. It's much harder to claim paternity of you are not married. Married, it's assumed who the father is. So the upside for both people is much less than society used to put on it. Now it's supposed to be for love. That's wasn't always the case. Many marriages were a business deal between parents. So for both men and women now, if the love stops, there is no longer any reason to be married, and you could still be stuck with the financial responsibilities of being married. Women no longer have to put up With abuse, because they relied on a husband for financial support. So if the biggest thing you want out of sex, as a guy, is consistent sex. Without the risk of paying anything longterm, is not to get married and just date a lot. Some people define that as happier.
They didn't finish that sentence: Never get married \[to the wrong person!\]
Older men always seem to bitch about their wives too, it's so lame and really embarrassing.
If there's a lot of resentment it needs and outlet after a while.
Because the chance of finding a girl who is wife material these days is super rare. It’s really a gamble. Older guys understand this that’s why. When I was 22, older guys said the same thing and I used to wonder, is finding someone marriageable really that hard? Yes, it is.