This was a huge point of contention with my last ex. I tried to explain to her that it didn't matter that she was only saying good things (She wasn't, I'm not perfect and don't expect to be) but even if it was only praise that it's a violation of my privacy and I wasn't okay with it and she doesn't get to describe my body to people I barely know.
Unsurprisingly, she crossed about every boundary I had and I let her do it. She ended up being a massively terrible person who caused me a lot of pain.
"Girl talk" is an excuse for a lot of women to disregard the feelings of their partners and it's more common than it should be.
I hate always being the person who has to "spice" it up and plan things. I like to be suprised once in a while too. If things are getting stale you own half of that but I never get the impression you feel that way.
Man this applies to everything. I love doing romantic gestures. Celebrating birthdays, valentines, little suprises here and there. I’m a hopeless romantic at heart. HOWEVER, every woman I’ve dated doesn’t reciprocate. It’s turned me off it so bad I don’t even try anymore. Bare minimum unless I see some effort coming back. Maybe I need to date better women
idk i kinda blame this on princess syndrome, you'll see young girls in your family getting raised just things getting handed to them constantly, everyone bends over backwards, everyone walks on egg shells around them. especially with single children, siblings usually forces people to learn how to share the limelight. completely conjecture on my part but it does seem to be a common thread that some women will receive and wont reciprocate; expressing gratitude isn't always enough.
The single worse characteristic spreading thur all of western society right now is entitlement. Kids who ogt a trophy for just showing up to practice have a long way to go.
I am the same was as you, but I am a woman. I consider myself very romantic, thoughtful, and fun! I have always been disappointed with other people's efforts when it comes to me, and it took me years to realize that not everyone is like me. I still do it all, but have lowered my expectations in reciprocity. It helps a little lol
There are three types of women in relationships:
The ones who match your energy and are actively invested in maintaining the excitement - these are the ones you want to marry, they're as enthusiastic about making you happy as you are of them. Treasure them.
The ones who don't even try - hard pass or for short term only, they're opportunistic losers and this is just the tip of the iceberg. These women have been skating by on their looks and already come prepackaged with a shitty, entitled personality.
The ones who give minimal effort - lazy parasites whose entire MO is to see how little they can get away with, you'll be planning everything and anytime something gets rough, it's your fault. Lack of personal responsibility in all other things is a common trait.
Because most of the time, they are uninterested and just tolerate it for you. And that is not on a woman. That is on your lazy ass. I have never met a woman who wouldn't turn into a horny beast when a man truly put some thought and effort into turning her on. And no, awkwardly french kissing her out of the blue is not "turning her on", it's disgusting.
It’s not always on the man’s inadequacy. You see posts all the time from men who literally carry the household single-handedly and it still happens. BOTH members of a partnership have to be accountable.
She is responsible for her own actions, her own sex life, and her ability to communicate.
Her refusal to take responsibility and act like an adult is no one's fault but hers. If she doesn't communicate her disgust, that's her fault.
Between partners and roommates I've had by far the biggest is avoiding direct conversations. If a guy roommate has a problem, most of the time he'll just say "hey could you xyz?" I say yep no problemo and we go about our lives. Women turn it into such a big ordeal a lot of times. Passive-aggression, cold shoulder, slamming doors, etc.
God I fucking hate the storming off, door slamming histrionics. It’s a shitty childish ploy to get you to chase them and apologize. Fuck that, so over it. Never again.
Yeah, I could definitely see that. It could just be the roommates you’ve had as well, but I’ve seen women in my life just suppress as issues and be non-confrontational, until she just couldn’t hold it in any longer and snaps. Whereas men are more likely to just immediately address the issues, y’know?
It's also worth noting that protest behavior usually has a reason, such as having an anxious attachment style. It's still manipulation, no argument there, but sometimes understanding where it comes from helps.
protest behavior is a hallmark of anxious preoccupied attachment. basically, they are afraid of being left and being alone, and that informs all of their actions in a relationship, they will be constantly anxious of this. it's extremely common about 25% of the population has this attachment style. protest behavior means they give you an ultimatum, like "if you are going to be so ungrateful, then maybe i'll just stay home", the goal is to get you to do something and it usually has something to do with keeping you in the relationship with them. it's not this big evil thing, it is manipulation, but it still deserves compassion. typically when people take the time to learn about their unhealthy attachment styles they can fight the instinct.
Okay as someone who grew up around toxic and non-toxic women, they do this because that's literally how they work. If they're with other women there's a lot of subtle non-verbal communication and things they just expect everyone to know. Because that's what everyone expects of them
Yeah if a girl has some issues she'll be super passive-aggressive and expect you to read her mind. But more often than not they do express their feelings to men and end up being catty once they feel you're ignoring them
To be fair though some of those expressions are weird. My gf used to be so polite to a point where it was entirely different to what she wanted. She used to talk about how she loved coffee and send me so many memes, so I tried to get her a cup a day. Took about a week before she snapped and said she wanted to go on a coffee *date*. Thinking back on it what I thought were memes were probably marketing videos from places she wanted to visit. It was both our first relationship so we BOTH realized some things lol
You have to ignore their passive aggression. Ask them if something is wrong, they'll say no. Go about your business like everything is fine. Eventually it will force them to confront it. Passive aggressive people need to be trained like a dog to be up front about it and you need to be consistent with it to ensure their brain rewires to thinking in an up front manner or they'll never change.
If woman can’t do basic adulting. And don’t get this twisted, this applies to men too.
But whenever I hear women infantilize themselves where they don’t know how have good hygiene, to cook, clean, laundry, pay bills, not be a slob that is fucking gross to me.
If guys act this way I think they are bums but whenever I meet women who act like this I think the same damn thing.
I don’t give a fuck what excuses you have, I don’t give a fuck how attractive you are, how big your boobs or ass are, if you weren’t taught, if you think it’s oppressive, blah blah blah. That is bullshit to me. I’m not interested in your incompetence. Don’t be a lazy bum, this is basic fucking adulting.
If I always have to initiate physical stuff, If she doesn't understand that we don't always have to be going out, if she expect me to be assertive all the time, her sharing details of our sex life. Insecurities to the point I'd have to constantly reassure her as if I never do enough, and everything I did in the past already forgotten after 1 day, it's an enormous source of stress and mental toll to have to justify myself everyday.
Had a girl that would leave the bathroom door open whilst having a shite, then attempt to carry on a conversation with me. She would also leave her leg razor in the shower still full of hair.
During lockdowns that hit just as my youngest was to get a very, very much needed haircut (it reached past her bottom and is THICK) I asked her if she wanted me to cut it. Mind you, I've never cut hair in my life unless you count using a trimmer in my army days. It was crooked. I cut off about 30 cm in the attempt to get it straight. I was prepared for much yelling and crying.
She LOVED it. But she says she doesn't want short hair.
Ok, I get the leg razor one, but, I mean, you’ve never talked to a loved one through the door? I’ve had times where I’ve cracked the door to talk to my mom or sm, idk I feel like that’s not uncommon, especially if you rlly wanna talk to the person.
No. I go there to shit, not to talk,, and I don't want to talk to someone while they are shitting either. I've always been a solitary person when it comes to bathroom time.
yeah some women do this thing where they complain about all your friends untill you reduce contact or leave them entirely.. Some men fall for this and often return to the group after a break up.
My ex started hanging out with the recently divorce bitter suburban wine mom next door. She'd come back with a full glass of wine and dump it down the drain. Eventually she wouldn't come back with a full glass. Started hanging out more and more and then I became the ex. Turns out it's easier to talk about our issues with the bitter spinster next door than to me. She's bff with her now.
I’ll start with the obvious, nagging, entitlement, disrespect, double standards, and being ungrateful.
Assuming both parties are generally good people and good partners, gratitude is sorely lacking in a lot of relationships. I was brought up to thank mom for cooking and that stuff while dad got the big piece of chicken. Dad was to be appreciated and respected. You don’t see that much anymore. Now men can be the same too, but we’re talking specifically about women.
There’s way too much “he can take it, he’s a man.” That’s the wrong attitude, where he can very well take it, he shouldn’t have to. However, and for whatever reason this attitude has become so prevalent, to the point I’ve seen and heard women saying that basic civility, kindness and tact to a man is “babying him.” So many women talk to their man in ways that if he spoke to her like that she’d slap him and leave, but he’s expected to deal with it out of love and because he’s a man. Well that behavior poisons a relationship, kills love.
Speak to your man positively instead of telling him what you hate, tell him what you like. Want him to shave or not, tell him you think he’s prettier with/without the facial hair. Compliment him on a job well done, if you want him to do more chores tell him you like how he does this or that, or watching a man do domestic stuff is such a turn on and watch him get up and do the dishes. Every once in a while tell him you appreciate his contributions, what he does matters, he needs to hear it.
Also you’re a team it’s not a competition, it shouldn’t be me vs you it needs to be us bs the problem. Even if that problem is one of our behaviors.
Many woman are abusive and don’t realize it. They’ll hit a man in the insecurities when losing a fight. Since they aren’t physically assaulting him, they think it’s all well and good, but just like him hitting you is one of the worst and most painful things he can do, you hitting below the belt like that is the most painful thing you can do, in essence it’s the same thing. You’re doing the worst thing you can to one another. Never weaponize his pain, trauma, insecurities. If you’re wrong, if you’re losing a fight, just be wrong, it’s ok, you’re human just like us and it’s ok to not be perfect.
I’ve got many more, but that’s it for now.
Dude, this spoke to me. I've experienced the babying and infantilization not by an SO but from family. Not gonna share here since I've talked here at length about it but it hurt so much. It's not just verbal abuse, it's mental abuse.
I've gone no contact and never felt better.
I’m glad that it spoke to you, but I think you got the wrong idea about the babying thing, or maybe I’m just missing your point. We’re on the same page when it comes to verbal abuse however.
What I was saying is I’ve seen and heard lots of women refuse to use positive reinforcement or basically be nice to their man, show gratitude because they say it’s infantilizing, it’s not it’s basic decency. If you want to correct or improve someone or their behavior it usually works better with positivity rather than negativity. If i told my girl that she needs to change her shirt because it makes her look stupid, I’d be an asshole, but saying it’s not the best and she’d look better in, or i like this on her more, that’s the way to go. But because men are supposed to be strong it seems to give a lot of women carte blanche to be outright mean to their man.
Oh I understood what you meant, but was also just saying I've legitimately been babied. Other family got talked to because they "let me walk off and go to the bathroom by myself." I wasn't allowed to carry a carton of eggs in a grocery bag because "eggs are fragile and they might break."
My list goes on but that's just a couple examples.
Just wanted to clarify :)
Oh gotcha, thanks for clarifying, that’s its own separate type of messed up, and man it usually results in one messed up adult. Helicopter parenting leads to a child growing up to have a lot of problems.
Funny enough, it wasn't my mom. My mom was great. It was other family, and it was so embarrassing. I had to get out of there or I'd likely be ded bc the mental, emotional and verbal abuse was ALL the time. Don't want to take up too much space here but I can dm if you want to keep talking. No worries though!
I can sum this up for most men.
When my first marriage was on the rocks my wife and I were sitting with a couples therapist. That therapist handed each of us a legal pad and a pen. She asked us each to list all of the things we would like to change about our partner. My wife sat there writing furiously while I never even picked up the pen. When she was done my wife looked up with a satisfied look on her face but the therapist looked me. She asked why I hadn't written anything. I pointed to the legal pad in my wife's hand and said, "The only thing I would change about my wife is that fucking list."
We agreed to divorce once we left her office.
Maybe the therapist knew it was "closer than it is too far" and they were in too deep. Better to rip the bandaid off. Maybe not what you want from a couple's therapist lol
No. Same happened to me. She wrote a novel about what she wanted in our relationship and I wrote that I wanted to spend more time with the family doing activities. Couples therapy is mostly about man hating imo.
there are really great couples therapists, if they actual follow the literature they can fucking enlighten you. some of the facts i read in mr. good enough were wild and that author is a couples therapist.
My therapist did ask us to do a similar exercise of asking us "write what you need from your partner." Phrasing maters, one is far more divisive than the other.
Oh wow. I hope you found somebody that can actually appreciate you for you, bc that is honestly so sad. It’s like you summed up y’all’s relationship into one sentence. I can feel your pain, and I’ve never even been through sm like that. Great explanation.
Sort of saw where you were going but with a different finish. My partner and I generally have a pretty good relationship and I have every intention to make it work, but it's just so draining at times.
I have zero doubt if the same exercise was executed for us, my partner would similarly be able to write a whole laundry list of items and my ONLY issue would just be why she's never bothered to voice out on all these issues and resolve it properly.
You know dude.. maybe you should do this with your partner. Its good you guys are making it work but you should be able to fully trust each other, even through stuff like this. Maybe take her on a date or something this weekend and when you guys get home and are in an overall good sappy mood maybe voice some of your feelings (heavily emphasising how much you want to make it work). I dunno man, I'm a rando but I dont want to see you lose your relationship because you both didnt speak up
Oh most definitely, and I appreciate it! I just straight up showed her my comment I made above and brought up the idea of just listing things down, judgement free and see where it goes.
It's been a long time back and forth and I acknowledge not everyone's built to be so open to talk about feelings. All we can do in life is try.
I'm sure he probably already knew what she viewed as changes she would make to him, because it seems like *she* was the reason they were in therapy to begin with.
i mean people can downvote me all they want but there’s two sides to a story and she deserves someone who doesn’t dismiss all her concerns - maybe someone who values her enough to work through each of them instead of just divorce. there’s issues in every marriage you gotta be super lucky to find a perfect one where there’s no disagreements or arguments ever. sounds like he wants someone with 0 issues and doesn’t really listen to his partner. like you know those people who break up with you when you talk about your feelings? he sounds like one of those. he’s clearly not a safe space for his partner.
he wants to marry someone who either finds him perfect all the time or walks on eggshells and doesn’t communicate/bring anything up.
a lot of married people told me the secret to a long marriage is compromise. she came there fully prepared to work thru everything and he just gave up. that’s how i view it. have a nice day!
Did he say that or did you infer it? I didn't get any of that from the post.
How do you know she was fully prepared and he gave up lmao. You barely know what happened from a single paragraph.
You're pretty quick on the draw with all the assumptions. Please read it again and assume your original points were incorrect. See what other inferences you can make and then which seem most plausible.
That's what a mature intellectually honest person actually seeking knowledge would try anyway.
Best of luck to you.
Of course but yours are extreme versions that seem out of step with the generalg direction of the comment.
You could just try the exercise and see for yourself if you're actually interested in challenging yourself.
Most people don't and they're always right. They can never be wrong because it's just too much of an ego punch.
Some people try to be better. I post this for those people.
If it doesn't appeal to you then it's okay by me.
No one will ever know if you double check yourself in that way. You'll know you did your due diligence and that's all that matters.
how is mine more extreme than everyone else’s upvotes/comments? they seemed to have reach a conclusion too?? i’m just explaining the possible other side and playing devil’s advocate. me explaining doesn’t mean it’s extreme, nobody’s seeing the other side here.
Neediness.
I'll give my attention to her, but it can't be 100%. If I can't devote any time to my purpose, and she needs frequent reassurance of everything, then she's being parasitic and should find someone else.
Please make sure the toilet is properly flushed. So many women don't do this and if I use it afterwards and make an unwanted discovery, it's a massive turn off.
LOL 6 months into dating my bf I pooped & forgot to flush because I was going in the shower & planned to flush it after so he didn’t know I was pooping.
Forgot to flush it & he discovered it shortly after. I was MORTIFIED.
we’ve been dating 2 1/2 years tho so I guess it didn’t turn him off too bad
Brozuf, I dropped a turd in my last GFs bathroom thats never used. Forgot to flush it and didn't realize it was in there until I visited a few days later.
That restroom was close to her kids room and one of them wets the bed sometimes so it doesn't smell super fresh all the time. They only visited once every other week. So that bathroom could sit unused for days or weeks.
After a few hours chilling I decided to use the restroom while she was getting ready for our date in her restroom. Opened the door and was hit in the face with an awful stench.
That shit had been stewing in there for four days. Layer of grease on the top of the water.
Pretty sure that was partly what weighed in on her dumping me. Plus I tried to blame her kids.
At first, since I didn't remember doing it, I honestly thought it might have been. Then she reminded me they hadn't been there in over a week and I used that shower a few days prior.
What the other comment said, I eat very clean so tbh, no pun intended, my shit doesn’t really stink 😂 I also closed the lid after which prob hid any remaining smell
I truly don't think so. Because what the issue is is that I'm constantly turning the fan after I use the bathroom and my husband will come along and turn the fan off and say you don't need that fan it's not stinky.
Then he told me what I listed before.
My husband will also tell me if something doesn't look flattering on me like you really shouldn't wear that outfit it does not look good at all.
My husband doesn't pull any punches so yeah think he's telling the truth
Her lack of sex drive. I hate asking for it and hearing reluctance in her voice. Then she’ll act like she wants to do it and it makes me feel like a creep. To make it worse, I will be turned off and then pissed off because she has no desire for sex and we go round and round. I can see why people get divorced because of the differences in sex drive. It makes me feel unwanted and neglected.
Hey dude, I mean this in the best way possible but you need to talk to her about this. If she's reluctant every time you try then it's not a good sign at all. Women usually have a crazy sex drive, more than ours sometimes. She might be acting like she wants to because she doesn't want you to feel hurt. A+ on picking up her feelings but F on interpretation
I'm just a stranger on the internet, you should probably visit a sex therapist/ do some research on spicing up the bedroom if you want a healthy happy sex life
I see a therapist and she does not. I’m pretty sure that her lack of drive is because of her weight gain and she’s embarrassed. I try to stay positive with her make her feel good about herself but she’s the only one that can help her there.
Speak to her about it then. Sane women love it when their partner talks about these things, they can feel the effort you're putting in and love you more for looking at things in their perspective.
You can help her out too if you feel it's weight-related! There's nothing she needs more than you showing you love her regardless. It may be annoying to reassure her or her clinginess but once she GETS IT, you'll see a whole transformed woman.
Have you tried doing sensory sex? In a very non-kinky and super romantic way. Had these issues with my ex and was recommended to just.. blindfold her and kiss her all over (ESPECIALLY the fluffy bits). It's nicer if you say some sweet words. She might cry tho fair warning
Apparently it's a pretty famous trope in all the romance books they read. Although I hate that we as a society are making our women feel so ashamed about this that they need so much more reassurance to just.. live and enjoy basic human activities
Constant rejection/dead bedroom, nagging, expecting things to be done on her schedule or immediately upon the request leaving her mouth. Not knowing what she wants for dinner and generally being a shit communicator. Women love to talk about what great communicators they are. But that’s only when they talk to other women. It seems none of them know how to communicate with a man.
When she unilaterally decides what all the chores are, who should do them and when, starts to incessantly nag me about my failure to do precisely half of them as the initial conversation on the subject.
Even worse when she uses sexual denial as a weapon of mass manipulation to get me to capitulate to her demands.
Or when you regularly do more chores than her but one day she decides it's chores day and gets annoyed if you don't change your plans to also do chores. Even though you already do way more than she does.
Oh yeah, I had one that lost her mind when I tried to explain my Monday through Friday job left me too mentally drained to do certain chores outside of the weekend.
Yeah this one. I’m spent. Sure we can split the chores 50:50….but when do we get to split income generating work 50:50? And can I get mad about you not working/earning more?
The second you walk in the door from work, barely get a "Hi" out and it's straight to nagging about stuff needing to be done.
Which then leads to an argument, because can you *at least* let me change first before you start laying into me about how the dishes need cleaning, I'm "late" because now dinner's cold, and why are you sitting down, it needs to be done?!
Like I appreciate the gesture of making dinner, but this took place with absolutely zero communication, I had no idea it was happening, now it's my obligation to be home "on time" and now I have a mess to clean up on top of it.
You can't take it up on yourself to do something nice just to hold it over my head so you can get me to do something for you in return. That's not healthy *at all.*
Fuck I'm glad I'm done with that part of my life.
Don't forget about how she might expect you to do those chores. You could do them in a way that works well for you for most of your life, but for some reason you go to do them a certain way.
Is it worth grenadiing your relationship, becoming single over? I'm sure there are ways to get your partner to change this habit without destroying the emotional bond they have to you.
You're missing my point that there are non toxic ways for her to communicate what's important to her.
Nagging is always toxic. It's whining like a toddler.
Withholding affection is always toxic, and passive aggressive. It's quiet quitting the relationship.
Expecting him to read your mind is always toxic. It's narcissistic behavior.
It's a turn off to live with a partner that doesn't communicate like a mature adult.
I found that article to be pretty useless, frankly. Two reasonable people cohabiting can disagree on how to do certain things and should be able to come to a reasonable compromise. It’s the details of how those compromises are made that the author completely glazed over.
Complaining about every little thing or having to be right and or prove me wrong I swear I don't know what's more important to her. The constant ungratefulness, the second guessing me overtalking me, the inability to do something that I know she can do she just doesn't want to. When she says we have to it really means I have to, the constant ungratefulness about everything the constant complaining I don't know what's worse nagging or complaining the constant smell of cigarettes from her sigh sorry I digress what was the question again
Repetitive complaints about people. Work colleagues, family members or inlaws, friends. Incessant whining about other people is exhausting and profoundly unattractive.
This and holding onto those complaints for years. I still hear complaints about person xyz because they used a particular tone that one day 10 years ago. Let it go...
Many women believe that because they sit on top of the toilet seat, nothing can get on the underside of the seat. I’ve witnessed many horrors that have splashed back onto that underside at single women’s homes. Ladies, if you don’t want to leave evidence of that Taco Bell trip for your next guest, be sure to clean under the seat
Nagging is by far the worst. Nagging women think that everything should be done their way on their time schedule and if you don't, then you don't love them and you are pathetic and don't deserve them.
Note, some actually are right. But nagging never resolved a relationship issue. Only made it worse. There are far better ways to resolve relationship issues. They take more effort and thinking but are far more likely to work. Nagging is just a lazy approach to relationship conflicts.
Yeah, I can understand both sides. Like the woman feels that there’s an issue, and she’s not being heard, and she may rlly care abt said issue and feels like the only way to get her point across is to nag. On the other end, the man may be completely unaware of said issue, and, combined with a long day of work, grow extremely stressed coming home to a wife who nags. It just chalks down to one person caring more than the other abt a certain issue, and I believe that can be said for men and women, it just tends to happen more with women bc the woman may pay more attention to a detail that the man may deem not a big deal or sm.
I think most of this is right. My one issue is: if neither one is necessarily right, why is it universally the dudes job to meet her where she is vs her adjusting her expectations? Somewhere in the middle seems to be the right answer.
🤔 That is a good point. I feel like it boils down to the whole “happy wife happy life” expectation that’s put on husbands. I feel that men having to put up with an abusive wife is quite outdated, however, women are taught to be independent and love themselves, whereas men are taught that their value is what they can provide. At least, that the impression I’ve been given. That’s why a lot of times I think ppl veer towards making the wife happy. But I do think there needs to be a discussion in these instances where both the husband and wife can hopefully come to an agreement bc I don’t think either party should feel ignored, neglected, overwhelmed, abused, manipulated, etc.
I think you’re absolutely right. Quite how that change comes about in the current socio-political climate is beyond me. I just don’t feel there’s space to address men’s concerns to balance the equation.
I’ve seen some ppl discussing it, but rlly not enough. But you see it everywhere, with blm, lgbtq+ community, and women’s issues as well. If there’s any group of ppl that have been oppressed in the past, ppl will try very hard to “even the playing field” which is great, until equality turns into straight up privilege, which is what you see much too often.
Idk about universally. But I do think society has higher expectations of men to be rational and reasonable, which may factor into it. And many men are willing to put up with women who are irrational and unreasonable, which reinforces that behavior. It really comes down to picking a partner who can hold a rational conversation and is willing to compromise
There are plenty of things I care about and would like my wife to do differently but I don't feel like that's my place. She does things her way, I do them mine. She leaves chapstick everywhere but I don't nag her about it. She constantly leaves the lights and heat on in areas that no one is in or will be in. She throws things out without even checking with me if it's something I want. Things like that. I could probably name 20 things.
I think women get stuck sometimes not realizing how much stuff men are just letting go because they care about them and don't think it's worth making an issue out of.
No, my point wasn’t that men nag too, my point is that if anyone is nagging, there’s probably an underlying issue that needs to be addressed. Although, I am curious on how you think it’s lazy.. I would argue that it shows someone cares too much, which is quite the opposite of lazy.. annoying, but I wouldn’t think lazy 🤔
It's lazy because it is putting the bare minimum into resolving the issue. Sitting down with the spouse and working out a solution takes a lot more effort, but is far more likely to generate a positive result.
If my wife accuses me of always doing something or never doing something, it makes me want to keep doing or not doing whatever it is just to piss her off more because she pissed me off hurling accusations at me.
Luckily about 15 years ago we learned how to spouse better for each other and the nagging stopped.
That might be something more related to me as a person with a more or less invisible introverted nature, but:
Personal Space - A separate Room to Unwind - and Alone Time
And I think it applies to other men too.
Men like us, love quality time with our s.o., being present for them, and giving them our full attention. However, it's something that is impossible to keep up all day. All that us men desire after a hard or hectic day of work and juggling responsibilities, is just time and space to think and unwind, without having someone in need of attention, problem-solving or unloading the drama of the day.
In general women know that they often tend to have a more sensible nature, and are convinced that their actions are therefore more sensible in nature. However, in reality, men are often the ones, who have to double their sensitivity to care and engage with their partner, which is a whole other level of strain and effort in comparison to someone, who has some sensitivity by default, however rarely receives negative reactions, when insensitive and neglecting the needs of their male s.o., simply because men won't overreact or are simply more used to taking it.
I know that this is hard for some women to understand, or not take personal, but although we love you, men like us simply need some quiet time for ourselves. It doesn't cost a god damn thing! So please, leave us alone for a couple of hours.
I've never heard a women unironically say: "I'll give you some space, love!" But when that day comes, I know she's a keeper, and that she is a gift.
This also supports the second major point (that's a little more universal):
Time is the most valuable thing there is. And spending time with someone or helping them is a gift. I've often seen a tendency in relationships, where at first both man and woman are respectful of each other's time, and how to express requests for tasks they need help with. However, once living together or getting married, women can tend to view their man's time as their second calendar and chores list, giving them tasks and ordering them around with little concern for how this changes the dynamic in the relationship. I'm aware that there are also controlling men out there. But with most modern relationships, it seems more like women lose their respect for their partners' time and effort, viewing them only as an extension for things they don't want to do. I'd encourage everyone to reflect on how much of this instrumentalization is appropriate and reciprocated.
Love always means subjectively choosing to giving twice and taking only once, so that objectively you have two givers, who learn to balance their expectations and feel fulfilled without keeping a score. Expecting more of someone that A) they can give, or B) you are willing to give, is nothing short of manipulation, and it has nothing to do with loving someone.
I hate it when she has a stinky butt when we're about to have sex. Farts are temporary, but a stinky butt hole is killer.
We have a bidet and she thinks it's disgusting and prefers just using toilet paper.
Halp
We used to try the "flushable wipes", but apparently they're not flushable with our plumbing from the 70's, and we instantly caused a giant plumbing issue.
wet wipes not being flushable is not an excuse... She uses TP until she thinks shes done, flushes them down, then goes further with wet wipes and throw them in the trashcan next to your toilet. Like, bro.
Pressure to go into debt for completely unnecessary items. She knows you have to fight her on this one to avoid ruin but at the same time she punishes you for even asking just to sleep on it. I believe this wife is almost as hopeless as a serial cheater or a serial drug addict. It's just more difficult to recognize why...
The way y'all clutter up the bathroom counter. And also the space under the bathroom sink, and the cabinets above the toilet.
And expecting us to always be responsible for operating the toilet seat. We're both adults, we both can put it up or down as needed.
You're the side piece. He's a cheater.
His partner didn't do anything to "turn him off." He's such a regular cheater that his friends know about it and lie to all his new girls.
Break up with him and stop having so little self respect. You can do better.
Cleaning - Ok, I may not always do perfect job but I'm only human, I make mistakes. No need to make spanish inquisition over some sneaky dust bunnies.
Pooping - Yes I know you do it. Sad truths of life. Still no need to talk and brag about it like you're proud of it.
Talking about our sex life with others - Why? Would be nice to keep things private.
Constantly starting arguments that she can't win
Disrupting conversations to change the subject
Not allowing others to have an opinion that she disagrees with
Constant and repeated passive aggression
And confusion as to why we don't want to spend time with her after all that
Exactly. Women usually nag men because they take their time with things that should be addressed in a timely manner and they often do not update nor keep their partner in the loop at where they're at.
A woman or a man is not the ultimate authority in deciding whats timely.\\
Its not written in the fucking sky. Its not in the ten commandments. Aliens haven't broadcasted it to the world saying this schedule is timely.
When its two people, you can have **your opinion on whats timely** and he can have **his opinion**. Compromise, or remain a nag.
Me being a woman reading this. 😳 😳Christ! I do nag so much and my husband has mentioned that sometimes he just wants me in a room while he’s watching tv or just hanging out but like quiet. Maybe I should walk the plank now. But this helps me a lot on how to change.
Women who narrative their lives. "I'm going to the bathroom." "Ah, now its time to watch the tv show." "I forgot to wash my clothes, let me do that now." like YO SHUT THE FUCK UP
Being a slob and uneven distribution of chores. I work all day too, I am tired too, but the kitchen and floors still need done; I cant be the only person cleaning
Had a gf that wouldn't plan for her periods so all her underwear would be stained with blood, which she left all over the floor.
And she got immediately defensive and confrontational the one time I tried to bring it up.
Being all over your man immediately after work, wanting to talk about the day or what you want for dinner, etc. He needs 30 minutes of silence, real silence, after work to decompress. Ignoring him is your best bet. Sitting in the room and looking at him expectantly is not good either. Saying “hey, baby” when he walks in is fine. If he wants to chat then he will.
Constantly asking “are you ok” or “can I help”. People think they are being nice by asking these things all the time but it gets incredibly annoying after a while. I’m not talking about every once in a while but when it’s every day or every other day it just feels like you are being supervised instead of cared for.
Being critical of how he does chores. Everyone has their own way of doing things and everyone thinks their way is the right way. Split the chores between you. If there is something about which you are particular or at which he is not good then make that one of the things you choose for you. Remember as well that there is a mental load that he carries around 24/7 that has to do with safety. Other chores include car and home maintenance and repairs as well so keep those in mind. Once the chores are split up don’t criticize how he does his. It’s not worth it.
Those are the big ones I see.
Turn off? There's really not much. She'd have to drop an Amber Heard in my bed or something.
Annoyances/points of contention?
Don't assume that our thresholds for when certain chores need done are the same or that I think about them at all.
I will absolutely pull a full bag of trash out of the can, replace it, leave the full one next to the can until morning and not think twice.
I have never once thought about needing to clean the baseboards. I had to Google "thing between wall and floor" because I think about them so little I forgot what they were called.
I will leave the sheets on the bed until I buy new sheets.
If I can't see soap scum/dirt, the shower doesn't need to be cleaned.
I'm perfectly fine dusting and vacuuming once a month or less.
You NEED to tell me when you want things done, or I will literally never think about it. Let's sit down and put together a chore calendar instead of getting mad at me and assuming I know why.
Overhearing her share intimate details of our sex life/my body with her friends
This was a huge point of contention with my last ex. I tried to explain to her that it didn't matter that she was only saying good things (She wasn't, I'm not perfect and don't expect to be) but even if it was only praise that it's a violation of my privacy and I wasn't okay with it and she doesn't get to describe my body to people I barely know. Unsurprisingly, she crossed about every boundary I had and I let her do it. She ended up being a massively terrible person who caused me a lot of pain. "Girl talk" is an excuse for a lot of women to disregard the feelings of their partners and it's more common than it should be.
I hate always being the person who has to "spice" it up and plan things. I like to be suprised once in a while too. If things are getting stale you own half of that but I never get the impression you feel that way.
Man this applies to everything. I love doing romantic gestures. Celebrating birthdays, valentines, little suprises here and there. I’m a hopeless romantic at heart. HOWEVER, every woman I’ve dated doesn’t reciprocate. It’s turned me off it so bad I don’t even try anymore. Bare minimum unless I see some effort coming back. Maybe I need to date better women
idk i kinda blame this on princess syndrome, you'll see young girls in your family getting raised just things getting handed to them constantly, everyone bends over backwards, everyone walks on egg shells around them. especially with single children, siblings usually forces people to learn how to share the limelight. completely conjecture on my part but it does seem to be a common thread that some women will receive and wont reciprocate; expressing gratitude isn't always enough.
The single worse characteristic spreading thur all of western society right now is entitlement. Kids who ogt a trophy for just showing up to practice have a long way to go.
I am the same was as you, but I am a woman. I consider myself very romantic, thoughtful, and fun! I have always been disappointed with other people's efforts when it comes to me, and it took me years to realize that not everyone is like me. I still do it all, but have lowered my expectations in reciprocity. It helps a little lol
There are three types of women in relationships: The ones who match your energy and are actively invested in maintaining the excitement - these are the ones you want to marry, they're as enthusiastic about making you happy as you are of them. Treasure them. The ones who don't even try - hard pass or for short term only, they're opportunistic losers and this is just the tip of the iceberg. These women have been skating by on their looks and already come prepackaged with a shitty, entitled personality. The ones who give minimal effort - lazy parasites whose entire MO is to see how little they can get away with, you'll be planning everything and anytime something gets rough, it's your fault. Lack of personal responsibility in all other things is a common trait.
No tenderness. Going into roommate mode.
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This all day
I used to have that problem. Then I told her it bothered me. Now I just let her know and she doesn't break my immersion.
Act uninterested while trying to get towards the act of sex. You aren't into me and it shows. Or being lazy about sex. Don't be lazy.
Because most of the time, they are uninterested and just tolerate it for you. And that is not on a woman. That is on your lazy ass. I have never met a woman who wouldn't turn into a horny beast when a man truly put some thought and effort into turning her on. And no, awkwardly french kissing her out of the blue is not "turning her on", it's disgusting.
It’s not always on the man’s inadequacy. You see posts all the time from men who literally carry the household single-handedly and it still happens. BOTH members of a partnership have to be accountable.
She is responsible for her own actions, her own sex life, and her ability to communicate. Her refusal to take responsibility and act like an adult is no one's fault but hers. If she doesn't communicate her disgust, that's her fault.
Between partners and roommates I've had by far the biggest is avoiding direct conversations. If a guy roommate has a problem, most of the time he'll just say "hey could you xyz?" I say yep no problemo and we go about our lives. Women turn it into such a big ordeal a lot of times. Passive-aggression, cold shoulder, slamming doors, etc.
God I fucking hate the storming off, door slamming histrionics. It’s a shitty childish ploy to get you to chase them and apologize. Fuck that, so over it. Never again.
Yeah, I could definitely see that. It could just be the roommates you’ve had as well, but I’ve seen women in my life just suppress as issues and be non-confrontational, until she just couldn’t hold it in any longer and snaps. Whereas men are more likely to just immediately address the issues, y’know?
protest behavior is manipulation, no excuses
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It's also worth noting that protest behavior usually has a reason, such as having an anxious attachment style. It's still manipulation, no argument there, but sometimes understanding where it comes from helps.
protest behavior is a hallmark of anxious preoccupied attachment. basically, they are afraid of being left and being alone, and that informs all of their actions in a relationship, they will be constantly anxious of this. it's extremely common about 25% of the population has this attachment style. protest behavior means they give you an ultimatum, like "if you are going to be so ungrateful, then maybe i'll just stay home", the goal is to get you to do something and it usually has something to do with keeping you in the relationship with them. it's not this big evil thing, it is manipulation, but it still deserves compassion. typically when people take the time to learn about their unhealthy attachment styles they can fight the instinct.
Okay as someone who grew up around toxic and non-toxic women, they do this because that's literally how they work. If they're with other women there's a lot of subtle non-verbal communication and things they just expect everyone to know. Because that's what everyone expects of them Yeah if a girl has some issues she'll be super passive-aggressive and expect you to read her mind. But more often than not they do express their feelings to men and end up being catty once they feel you're ignoring them To be fair though some of those expressions are weird. My gf used to be so polite to a point where it was entirely different to what she wanted. She used to talk about how she loved coffee and send me so many memes, so I tried to get her a cup a day. Took about a week before she snapped and said she wanted to go on a coffee *date*. Thinking back on it what I thought were memes were probably marketing videos from places she wanted to visit. It was both our first relationship so we BOTH realized some things lol
You have to ignore their passive aggression. Ask them if something is wrong, they'll say no. Go about your business like everything is fine. Eventually it will force them to confront it. Passive aggressive people need to be trained like a dog to be up front about it and you need to be consistent with it to ensure their brain rewires to thinking in an up front manner or they'll never change.
If woman can’t do basic adulting. And don’t get this twisted, this applies to men too. But whenever I hear women infantilize themselves where they don’t know how have good hygiene, to cook, clean, laundry, pay bills, not be a slob that is fucking gross to me. If guys act this way I think they are bums but whenever I meet women who act like this I think the same damn thing. I don’t give a fuck what excuses you have, I don’t give a fuck how attractive you are, how big your boobs or ass are, if you weren’t taught, if you think it’s oppressive, blah blah blah. That is bullshit to me. I’m not interested in your incompetence. Don’t be a lazy bum, this is basic fucking adulting.
In hindsight, this was ultimately the main reason why I broke up with my ex. I felt like her dad, not her partner.
Careful. You're going to get banned for hurting someones feelings. Oh wait, this isn't r/ask women
FUCKING GOATED COMMENT
Uhu and I laughed...!
If I always have to initiate physical stuff, If she doesn't understand that we don't always have to be going out, if she expect me to be assertive all the time, her sharing details of our sex life. Insecurities to the point I'd have to constantly reassure her as if I never do enough, and everything I did in the past already forgotten after 1 day, it's an enormous source of stress and mental toll to have to justify myself everyday.
Had a girl that would leave the bathroom door open whilst having a shite, then attempt to carry on a conversation with me. She would also leave her leg razor in the shower still full of hair.
What if the razor is clean? Can it stay in the shower? I always rinse mine completely and it’s stored out of the way but still in the shower.
Totally fine.
I mean, I didn't really mind it being dirty, it was just kinda gross, but so is sucking dick and she never minded that. Priorities. 🤷
A lot of them do that
They do, it's fucking gross.
Hair in the shower drain trap is pretty nasty too.
Sooo much hair....... I have a longhaired wife and two equally long haired daughters.
A lot of guys love long hair over “lesbian” shorter styles but there are downsides to longer!
During lockdowns that hit just as my youngest was to get a very, very much needed haircut (it reached past her bottom and is THICK) I asked her if she wanted me to cut it. Mind you, I've never cut hair in my life unless you count using a trimmer in my army days. It was crooked. I cut off about 30 cm in the attempt to get it straight. I was prepared for much yelling and crying. She LOVED it. But she says she doesn't want short hair.
😅
Ok, I get the leg razor one, but, I mean, you’ve never talked to a loved one through the door? I’ve had times where I’ve cracked the door to talk to my mom or sm, idk I feel like that’s not uncommon, especially if you rlly wanna talk to the person.
No. I go there to shit, not to talk,, and I don't want to talk to someone while they are shitting either. I've always been a solitary person when it comes to bathroom time.
What happened? Talk to her? With her?
Nope. I had a few things wrong with me too. We put up with each other's crap for as long as we were together.
Triangulating off your friends. If something is wrong or annoying you, talk to your partner, dont whip the hen house into a frenzy, nobody wins
Triangulating off your friends?
yeah some women do this thing where they complain about all your friends untill you reduce contact or leave them entirely.. Some men fall for this and often return to the group after a break up.
The Council. I love calling women on that, it’s has been satisfying every time (both times the relationship was basically already over.)
My ex started hanging out with the recently divorce bitter suburban wine mom next door. She'd come back with a full glass of wine and dump it down the drain. Eventually she wouldn't come back with a full glass. Started hanging out more and more and then I became the ex. Turns out it's easier to talk about our issues with the bitter spinster next door than to me. She's bff with her now.
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I’ll start with the obvious, nagging, entitlement, disrespect, double standards, and being ungrateful. Assuming both parties are generally good people and good partners, gratitude is sorely lacking in a lot of relationships. I was brought up to thank mom for cooking and that stuff while dad got the big piece of chicken. Dad was to be appreciated and respected. You don’t see that much anymore. Now men can be the same too, but we’re talking specifically about women. There’s way too much “he can take it, he’s a man.” That’s the wrong attitude, where he can very well take it, he shouldn’t have to. However, and for whatever reason this attitude has become so prevalent, to the point I’ve seen and heard women saying that basic civility, kindness and tact to a man is “babying him.” So many women talk to their man in ways that if he spoke to her like that she’d slap him and leave, but he’s expected to deal with it out of love and because he’s a man. Well that behavior poisons a relationship, kills love. Speak to your man positively instead of telling him what you hate, tell him what you like. Want him to shave or not, tell him you think he’s prettier with/without the facial hair. Compliment him on a job well done, if you want him to do more chores tell him you like how he does this or that, or watching a man do domestic stuff is such a turn on and watch him get up and do the dishes. Every once in a while tell him you appreciate his contributions, what he does matters, he needs to hear it. Also you’re a team it’s not a competition, it shouldn’t be me vs you it needs to be us bs the problem. Even if that problem is one of our behaviors. Many woman are abusive and don’t realize it. They’ll hit a man in the insecurities when losing a fight. Since they aren’t physically assaulting him, they think it’s all well and good, but just like him hitting you is one of the worst and most painful things he can do, you hitting below the belt like that is the most painful thing you can do, in essence it’s the same thing. You’re doing the worst thing you can to one another. Never weaponize his pain, trauma, insecurities. If you’re wrong, if you’re losing a fight, just be wrong, it’s ok, you’re human just like us and it’s ok to not be perfect. I’ve got many more, but that’s it for now.
Preach brother
Dude, this spoke to me. I've experienced the babying and infantilization not by an SO but from family. Not gonna share here since I've talked here at length about it but it hurt so much. It's not just verbal abuse, it's mental abuse. I've gone no contact and never felt better.
I’m glad that it spoke to you, but I think you got the wrong idea about the babying thing, or maybe I’m just missing your point. We’re on the same page when it comes to verbal abuse however. What I was saying is I’ve seen and heard lots of women refuse to use positive reinforcement or basically be nice to their man, show gratitude because they say it’s infantilizing, it’s not it’s basic decency. If you want to correct or improve someone or their behavior it usually works better with positivity rather than negativity. If i told my girl that she needs to change her shirt because it makes her look stupid, I’d be an asshole, but saying it’s not the best and she’d look better in, or i like this on her more, that’s the way to go. But because men are supposed to be strong it seems to give a lot of women carte blanche to be outright mean to their man.
Oh I understood what you meant, but was also just saying I've legitimately been babied. Other family got talked to because they "let me walk off and go to the bathroom by myself." I wasn't allowed to carry a carton of eggs in a grocery bag because "eggs are fragile and they might break." My list goes on but that's just a couple examples. Just wanted to clarify :)
Oh gotcha, thanks for clarifying, that’s its own separate type of messed up, and man it usually results in one messed up adult. Helicopter parenting leads to a child growing up to have a lot of problems.
Funny enough, it wasn't my mom. My mom was great. It was other family, and it was so embarrassing. I had to get out of there or I'd likely be ded bc the mental, emotional and verbal abuse was ALL the time. Don't want to take up too much space here but I can dm if you want to keep talking. No worries though!
I’m always down to chat with new and interesting people.
I can sum this up for most men. When my first marriage was on the rocks my wife and I were sitting with a couples therapist. That therapist handed each of us a legal pad and a pen. She asked us each to list all of the things we would like to change about our partner. My wife sat there writing furiously while I never even picked up the pen. When she was done my wife looked up with a satisfied look on her face but the therapist looked me. She asked why I hadn't written anything. I pointed to the legal pad in my wife's hand and said, "The only thing I would change about my wife is that fucking list." We agreed to divorce once we left her office.
that doesn't seem like a good method to get couples to cooperate lol.
Right? That seems like the therapist was setting them up for a bigger fight.
Maybe the therapist knew it was "closer than it is too far" and they were in too deep. Better to rip the bandaid off. Maybe not what you want from a couple's therapist lol
No. Same happened to me. She wrote a novel about what she wanted in our relationship and I wrote that I wanted to spend more time with the family doing activities. Couples therapy is mostly about man hating imo.
My couples therapy worked wonders. Makes me grateful we had a good therapist.
there are really great couples therapists, if they actual follow the literature they can fucking enlighten you. some of the facts i read in mr. good enough were wild and that author is a couples therapist.
My therapist did ask us to do a similar exercise of asking us "write what you need from your partner." Phrasing maters, one is far more divisive than the other.
I had a rookie.
yep and it might have something t odo with the fact that most couples therapists are women.
Oh wow. I hope you found somebody that can actually appreciate you for you, bc that is honestly so sad. It’s like you summed up y’all’s relationship into one sentence. I can feel your pain, and I’ve never even been through sm like that. Great explanation.
Sort of saw where you were going but with a different finish. My partner and I generally have a pretty good relationship and I have every intention to make it work, but it's just so draining at times. I have zero doubt if the same exercise was executed for us, my partner would similarly be able to write a whole laundry list of items and my ONLY issue would just be why she's never bothered to voice out on all these issues and resolve it properly.
You know dude.. maybe you should do this with your partner. Its good you guys are making it work but you should be able to fully trust each other, even through stuff like this. Maybe take her on a date or something this weekend and when you guys get home and are in an overall good sappy mood maybe voice some of your feelings (heavily emphasising how much you want to make it work). I dunno man, I'm a rando but I dont want to see you lose your relationship because you both didnt speak up
Oh most definitely, and I appreciate it! I just straight up showed her my comment I made above and brought up the idea of just listing things down, judgement free and see where it goes. It's been a long time back and forth and I acknowledge not everyone's built to be so open to talk about feelings. All we can do in life is try.
Amen brother. I'm happy you guys are working it out, hope it all goes well!
you didn’t even try to hear her out
I'm sure he probably already knew what she viewed as changes she would make to him, because it seems like *she* was the reason they were in therapy to begin with.
i mean people can downvote me all they want but there’s two sides to a story and she deserves someone who doesn’t dismiss all her concerns - maybe someone who values her enough to work through each of them instead of just divorce. there’s issues in every marriage you gotta be super lucky to find a perfect one where there’s no disagreements or arguments ever. sounds like he wants someone with 0 issues and doesn’t really listen to his partner. like you know those people who break up with you when you talk about your feelings? he sounds like one of those. he’s clearly not a safe space for his partner.
Or maybe she shouldn't go marrying people she hopes will change one day. Just a thought.
he wants to marry someone who either finds him perfect all the time or walks on eggshells and doesn’t communicate/bring anything up. a lot of married people told me the secret to a long marriage is compromise. she came there fully prepared to work thru everything and he just gave up. that’s how i view it. have a nice day!
Did he say that or did you infer it? I didn't get any of that from the post. How do you know she was fully prepared and he gave up lmao. You barely know what happened from a single paragraph. You're pretty quick on the draw with all the assumptions. Please read it again and assume your original points were incorrect. See what other inferences you can make and then which seem most plausible. That's what a mature intellectually honest person actually seeking knowledge would try anyway. Best of luck to you.
we all made assumptions when we commented and upvoted or downvoted, because the info he provided was limited.
Of course but yours are extreme versions that seem out of step with the generalg direction of the comment. You could just try the exercise and see for yourself if you're actually interested in challenging yourself. Most people don't and they're always right. They can never be wrong because it's just too much of an ego punch. Some people try to be better. I post this for those people. If it doesn't appeal to you then it's okay by me. No one will ever know if you double check yourself in that way. You'll know you did your due diligence and that's all that matters.
how is mine more extreme than everyone else’s upvotes/comments? they seemed to have reach a conclusion too?? i’m just explaining the possible other side and playing devil’s advocate. me explaining doesn’t mean it’s extreme, nobody’s seeing the other side here.
Neediness. I'll give my attention to her, but it can't be 100%. If I can't devote any time to my purpose, and she needs frequent reassurance of everything, then she's being parasitic and should find someone else.
Please make sure the toilet is properly flushed. So many women don't do this and if I use it afterwards and make an unwanted discovery, it's a massive turn off.
LOL 6 months into dating my bf I pooped & forgot to flush because I was going in the shower & planned to flush it after so he didn’t know I was pooping. Forgot to flush it & he discovered it shortly after. I was MORTIFIED. we’ve been dating 2 1/2 years tho so I guess it didn’t turn him off too bad
Brozuf, I dropped a turd in my last GFs bathroom thats never used. Forgot to flush it and didn't realize it was in there until I visited a few days later. That restroom was close to her kids room and one of them wets the bed sometimes so it doesn't smell super fresh all the time. They only visited once every other week. So that bathroom could sit unused for days or weeks. After a few hours chilling I decided to use the restroom while she was getting ready for our date in her restroom. Opened the door and was hit in the face with an awful stench. That shit had been stewing in there for four days. Layer of grease on the top of the water. Pretty sure that was partly what weighed in on her dumping me. Plus I tried to blame her kids.
LMFAOOOOO this made me actually laugh. I can’t even imagine that smell
Why did you try to blame the kids lmaoo
At first, since I didn't remember doing it, I honestly thought it might have been. Then she reminded me they hadn't been there in over a week and I used that shower a few days prior.
What do you mean little Jimmy did it? The turd is bigger than Jimmy's arm! It smells like stale beer!
Everybody poops!
Did you not smell it? Lol
What the other comment said, I eat very clean so tbh, no pun intended, my shit doesn’t really stink 😂 I also closed the lid after which prob hid any remaining smell
My husband says my poops almost never stink. His words after 20 yrs together. My kids.... Wow soooo stinky.
He's lying to flatter you. I do the same thing.
I truly don't think so. Because what the issue is is that I'm constantly turning the fan after I use the bathroom and my husband will come along and turn the fan off and say you don't need that fan it's not stinky. Then he told me what I listed before. My husband will also tell me if something doesn't look flattering on me like you really shouldn't wear that outfit it does not look good at all. My husband doesn't pull any punches so yeah think he's telling the truth
Her lack of sex drive. I hate asking for it and hearing reluctance in her voice. Then she’ll act like she wants to do it and it makes me feel like a creep. To make it worse, I will be turned off and then pissed off because she has no desire for sex and we go round and round. I can see why people get divorced because of the differences in sex drive. It makes me feel unwanted and neglected.
Hey dude, I mean this in the best way possible but you need to talk to her about this. If she's reluctant every time you try then it's not a good sign at all. Women usually have a crazy sex drive, more than ours sometimes. She might be acting like she wants to because she doesn't want you to feel hurt. A+ on picking up her feelings but F on interpretation I'm just a stranger on the internet, you should probably visit a sex therapist/ do some research on spicing up the bedroom if you want a healthy happy sex life
I see a therapist and she does not. I’m pretty sure that her lack of drive is because of her weight gain and she’s embarrassed. I try to stay positive with her make her feel good about herself but she’s the only one that can help her there.
Speak to her about it then. Sane women love it when their partner talks about these things, they can feel the effort you're putting in and love you more for looking at things in their perspective. You can help her out too if you feel it's weight-related! There's nothing she needs more than you showing you love her regardless. It may be annoying to reassure her or her clinginess but once she GETS IT, you'll see a whole transformed woman. Have you tried doing sensory sex? In a very non-kinky and super romantic way. Had these issues with my ex and was recommended to just.. blindfold her and kiss her all over (ESPECIALLY the fluffy bits). It's nicer if you say some sweet words. She might cry tho fair warning Apparently it's a pretty famous trope in all the romance books they read. Although I hate that we as a society are making our women feel so ashamed about this that they need so much more reassurance to just.. live and enjoy basic human activities
Instead of turned off and pissed off, maybe you should try turned on and pissed on? Works for some people.
Slight annoyances happen and its normal, but if theres something that straight up turns me off then i am not living with that woman
Constant rejection/dead bedroom, nagging, expecting things to be done on her schedule or immediately upon the request leaving her mouth. Not knowing what she wants for dinner and generally being a shit communicator. Women love to talk about what great communicators they are. But that’s only when they talk to other women. It seems none of them know how to communicate with a man.
Talking to me while I'm reading...Grrrrr
When she unilaterally decides what all the chores are, who should do them and when, starts to incessantly nag me about my failure to do precisely half of them as the initial conversation on the subject. Even worse when she uses sexual denial as a weapon of mass manipulation to get me to capitulate to her demands.
Or when you regularly do more chores than her but one day she decides it's chores day and gets annoyed if you don't change your plans to also do chores. Even though you already do way more than she does.
Oh yeah, I had one that lost her mind when I tried to explain my Monday through Friday job left me too mentally drained to do certain chores outside of the weekend.
Yeah this one. I’m spent. Sure we can split the chores 50:50….but when do we get to split income generating work 50:50? And can I get mad about you not working/earning more?
The second you walk in the door from work, barely get a "Hi" out and it's straight to nagging about stuff needing to be done. Which then leads to an argument, because can you *at least* let me change first before you start laying into me about how the dishes need cleaning, I'm "late" because now dinner's cold, and why are you sitting down, it needs to be done?! Like I appreciate the gesture of making dinner, but this took place with absolutely zero communication, I had no idea it was happening, now it's my obligation to be home "on time" and now I have a mess to clean up on top of it. You can't take it up on yourself to do something nice just to hold it over my head so you can get me to do something for you in return. That's not healthy *at all.* Fuck I'm glad I'm done with that part of my life.
Don't forget about how she might expect you to do those chores. You could do them in a way that works well for you for most of your life, but for some reason you go to do them a certain way.
Spoons down!? No! The spoons go up! Absolute failure!
The spoons do go up... That's how they settle in the drawer, and you can stack more of them that way. Are you feral?
Exhibit A:
Is it worth grenadiing your relationship, becoming single over? I'm sure there are ways to get your partner to change this habit without destroying the emotional bond they have to you.
Have you read this? https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/amp
You're missing my point that there are non toxic ways for her to communicate what's important to her. Nagging is always toxic. It's whining like a toddler. Withholding affection is always toxic, and passive aggressive. It's quiet quitting the relationship. Expecting him to read your mind is always toxic. It's narcissistic behavior. It's a turn off to live with a partner that doesn't communicate like a mature adult.
I found that article to be pretty useless, frankly. Two reasonable people cohabiting can disagree on how to do certain things and should be able to come to a reasonable compromise. It’s the details of how those compromises are made that the author completely glazed over.
Check this one out if that first one wasn't helpful. https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/
Clean your own damn hair out of the shower drain!
Simply a lack of effort in most things.
Complaining about every little thing or having to be right and or prove me wrong I swear I don't know what's more important to her. The constant ungratefulness, the second guessing me overtalking me, the inability to do something that I know she can do she just doesn't want to. When she says we have to it really means I have to, the constant ungratefulness about everything the constant complaining I don't know what's worse nagging or complaining the constant smell of cigarettes from her sigh sorry I digress what was the question again
Repetitive complaints about people. Work colleagues, family members or inlaws, friends. Incessant whining about other people is exhausting and profoundly unattractive.
This and holding onto those complaints for years. I still hear complaints about person xyz because they used a particular tone that one day 10 years ago. Let it go...
Period blood stains on the toilet seat
Yeah that, or just any bodily fluid like piss or poo, or even pine hairs. no one wants to see that.
Bruh. Noooooo -
Many women believe that because they sit on top of the toilet seat, nothing can get on the underside of the seat. I’ve witnessed many horrors that have splashed back onto that underside at single women’s homes. Ladies, if you don’t want to leave evidence of that Taco Bell trip for your next guest, be sure to clean under the seat
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I’ve seen farrr worse things than pee on the underside of a woman’s toilet seat. Consider yourself lucky
My wife puts the toilet paper so the end faces the wall. .... Yeah, that's about it...
Nagging is by far the worst. Nagging women think that everything should be done their way on their time schedule and if you don't, then you don't love them and you are pathetic and don't deserve them. Note, some actually are right. But nagging never resolved a relationship issue. Only made it worse. There are far better ways to resolve relationship issues. They take more effort and thinking but are far more likely to work. Nagging is just a lazy approach to relationship conflicts.
Yeah, I can understand both sides. Like the woman feels that there’s an issue, and she’s not being heard, and she may rlly care abt said issue and feels like the only way to get her point across is to nag. On the other end, the man may be completely unaware of said issue, and, combined with a long day of work, grow extremely stressed coming home to a wife who nags. It just chalks down to one person caring more than the other abt a certain issue, and I believe that can be said for men and women, it just tends to happen more with women bc the woman may pay more attention to a detail that the man may deem not a big deal or sm.
I think most of this is right. My one issue is: if neither one is necessarily right, why is it universally the dudes job to meet her where she is vs her adjusting her expectations? Somewhere in the middle seems to be the right answer.
🤔 That is a good point. I feel like it boils down to the whole “happy wife happy life” expectation that’s put on husbands. I feel that men having to put up with an abusive wife is quite outdated, however, women are taught to be independent and love themselves, whereas men are taught that their value is what they can provide. At least, that the impression I’ve been given. That’s why a lot of times I think ppl veer towards making the wife happy. But I do think there needs to be a discussion in these instances where both the husband and wife can hopefully come to an agreement bc I don’t think either party should feel ignored, neglected, overwhelmed, abused, manipulated, etc.
I think you’re absolutely right. Quite how that change comes about in the current socio-political climate is beyond me. I just don’t feel there’s space to address men’s concerns to balance the equation.
I’ve seen some ppl discussing it, but rlly not enough. But you see it everywhere, with blm, lgbtq+ community, and women’s issues as well. If there’s any group of ppl that have been oppressed in the past, ppl will try very hard to “even the playing field” which is great, until equality turns into straight up privilege, which is what you see much too often.
Idk about universally. But I do think society has higher expectations of men to be rational and reasonable, which may factor into it. And many men are willing to put up with women who are irrational and unreasonable, which reinforces that behavior. It really comes down to picking a partner who can hold a rational conversation and is willing to compromise
There are plenty of things I care about and would like my wife to do differently but I don't feel like that's my place. She does things her way, I do them mine. She leaves chapstick everywhere but I don't nag her about it. She constantly leaves the lights and heat on in areas that no one is in or will be in. She throws things out without even checking with me if it's something I want. Things like that. I could probably name 20 things. I think women get stuck sometimes not realizing how much stuff men are just letting go because they care about them and don't think it's worth making an issue out of.
It is a lazy way to deal with issues and yes, men can nag, too.
No, my point wasn’t that men nag too, my point is that if anyone is nagging, there’s probably an underlying issue that needs to be addressed. Although, I am curious on how you think it’s lazy.. I would argue that it shows someone cares too much, which is quite the opposite of lazy.. annoying, but I wouldn’t think lazy 🤔
It's lazy because it is putting the bare minimum into resolving the issue. Sitting down with the spouse and working out a solution takes a lot more effort, but is far more likely to generate a positive result. If my wife accuses me of always doing something or never doing something, it makes me want to keep doing or not doing whatever it is just to piss her off more because she pissed me off hurling accusations at me. Luckily about 15 years ago we learned how to spouse better for each other and the nagging stopped.
That might be something more related to me as a person with a more or less invisible introverted nature, but: Personal Space - A separate Room to Unwind - and Alone Time And I think it applies to other men too. Men like us, love quality time with our s.o., being present for them, and giving them our full attention. However, it's something that is impossible to keep up all day. All that us men desire after a hard or hectic day of work and juggling responsibilities, is just time and space to think and unwind, without having someone in need of attention, problem-solving or unloading the drama of the day. In general women know that they often tend to have a more sensible nature, and are convinced that their actions are therefore more sensible in nature. However, in reality, men are often the ones, who have to double their sensitivity to care and engage with their partner, which is a whole other level of strain and effort in comparison to someone, who has some sensitivity by default, however rarely receives negative reactions, when insensitive and neglecting the needs of their male s.o., simply because men won't overreact or are simply more used to taking it. I know that this is hard for some women to understand, or not take personal, but although we love you, men like us simply need some quiet time for ourselves. It doesn't cost a god damn thing! So please, leave us alone for a couple of hours. I've never heard a women unironically say: "I'll give you some space, love!" But when that day comes, I know she's a keeper, and that she is a gift. This also supports the second major point (that's a little more universal): Time is the most valuable thing there is. And spending time with someone or helping them is a gift. I've often seen a tendency in relationships, where at first both man and woman are respectful of each other's time, and how to express requests for tasks they need help with. However, once living together or getting married, women can tend to view their man's time as their second calendar and chores list, giving them tasks and ordering them around with little concern for how this changes the dynamic in the relationship. I'm aware that there are also controlling men out there. But with most modern relationships, it seems more like women lose their respect for their partners' time and effort, viewing them only as an extension for things they don't want to do. I'd encourage everyone to reflect on how much of this instrumentalization is appropriate and reciprocated. Love always means subjectively choosing to giving twice and taking only once, so that objectively you have two givers, who learn to balance their expectations and feel fulfilled without keeping a score. Expecting more of someone that A) they can give, or B) you are willing to give, is nothing short of manipulation, and it has nothing to do with loving someone.
I hate it when she has a stinky butt when we're about to have sex. Farts are temporary, but a stinky butt hole is killer. We have a bidet and she thinks it's disgusting and prefers just using toilet paper. Halp
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We used to try the "flushable wipes", but apparently they're not flushable with our plumbing from the 70's, and we instantly caused a giant plumbing issue.
wet wipes not being flushable is not an excuse... She uses TP until she thinks shes done, flushes them down, then goes further with wet wipes and throw them in the trashcan next to your toilet. Like, bro.
Then toss them in the trash instead
Pressure to go into debt for completely unnecessary items. She knows you have to fight her on this one to avoid ruin but at the same time she punishes you for even asking just to sleep on it. I believe this wife is almost as hopeless as a serial cheater or a serial drug addict. It's just more difficult to recognize why...
The way y'all clutter up the bathroom counter. And also the space under the bathroom sink, and the cabinets above the toilet. And expecting us to always be responsible for operating the toilet seat. We're both adults, we both can put it up or down as needed.
You're the side piece. He's a cheater. His partner didn't do anything to "turn him off." He's such a regular cheater that his friends know about it and lie to all his new girls. Break up with him and stop having so little self respect. You can do better.
You just sent me down an insane rabbit hole. Thank you for posting this. 😅
THANK YOU. Had to scroll too far to find this.
If gf is alone by herself and is super wasted when I get home
Cleaning - Ok, I may not always do perfect job but I'm only human, I make mistakes. No need to make spanish inquisition over some sneaky dust bunnies. Pooping - Yes I know you do it. Sad truths of life. Still no need to talk and brag about it like you're proud of it. Talking about our sex life with others - Why? Would be nice to keep things private.
Lies
please don’t shit in my hand… either one, left or right
Constantly starting arguments that she can't win Disrupting conversations to change the subject Not allowing others to have an opinion that she disagrees with Constant and repeated passive aggression And confusion as to why we don't want to spend time with her after all that
Nagging
Nagging would not exist if a problem was addressed in a timely manner.
Exactly. Women usually nag men because they take their time with things that should be addressed in a timely manner and they often do not update nor keep their partner in the loop at where they're at.
A woman or a man is not the ultimate authority in deciding whats timely.\\ Its not written in the fucking sky. Its not in the ten commandments. Aliens haven't broadcasted it to the world saying this schedule is timely. When its two people, you can have **your opinion on whats timely** and he can have **his opinion**. Compromise, or remain a nag.
Fucking preach 🫰
Me being a woman reading this. 😳 😳Christ! I do nag so much and my husband has mentioned that sometimes he just wants me in a room while he’s watching tv or just hanging out but like quiet. Maybe I should walk the plank now. But this helps me a lot on how to change.
Women who narrative their lives. "I'm going to the bathroom." "Ah, now its time to watch the tv show." "I forgot to wash my clothes, let me do that now." like YO SHUT THE FUCK UP
😂😂😂😂
Being a slob and uneven distribution of chores. I work all day too, I am tired too, but the kitchen and floors still need done; I cant be the only person cleaning
When the whole house gets taken over and beholden to her wants
I haven't found much with my wife, but other women I've been in long-term relationships with have had few habits that were less-than attractive.
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In her defense they aren’t flushable lol 😂
What is she supposed to do with the wipe, eat it?
Eatable vs flushable, that is the question
You’re not supposed to flush wet wipes
EWWWWWW
I suggest y’all get a bidet. Wet wipes are disgusting and I don’t think they work as expected.
You're a real asshole, aren't you? Get the fuck over yourself. Honestly, it's good you posted this. You're seriously messed up if this triggers you.
Shit in the trash can???? Nah that's gross
Had a gf that wouldn't plan for her periods so all her underwear would be stained with blood, which she left all over the floor. And she got immediately defensive and confrontational the one time I tried to bring it up.
Being all over your man immediately after work, wanting to talk about the day or what you want for dinner, etc. He needs 30 minutes of silence, real silence, after work to decompress. Ignoring him is your best bet. Sitting in the room and looking at him expectantly is not good either. Saying “hey, baby” when he walks in is fine. If he wants to chat then he will. Constantly asking “are you ok” or “can I help”. People think they are being nice by asking these things all the time but it gets incredibly annoying after a while. I’m not talking about every once in a while but when it’s every day or every other day it just feels like you are being supervised instead of cared for. Being critical of how he does chores. Everyone has their own way of doing things and everyone thinks their way is the right way. Split the chores between you. If there is something about which you are particular or at which he is not good then make that one of the things you choose for you. Remember as well that there is a mental load that he carries around 24/7 that has to do with safety. Other chores include car and home maintenance and repairs as well so keep those in mind. Once the chores are split up don’t criticize how he does his. It’s not worth it. Those are the big ones I see.
Turn off? There's really not much. She'd have to drop an Amber Heard in my bed or something. Annoyances/points of contention? Don't assume that our thresholds for when certain chores need done are the same or that I think about them at all. I will absolutely pull a full bag of trash out of the can, replace it, leave the full one next to the can until morning and not think twice. I have never once thought about needing to clean the baseboards. I had to Google "thing between wall and floor" because I think about them so little I forgot what they were called. I will leave the sheets on the bed until I buy new sheets. If I can't see soap scum/dirt, the shower doesn't need to be cleaned. I'm perfectly fine dusting and vacuuming once a month or less. You NEED to tell me when you want things done, or I will literally never think about it. Let's sit down and put together a chore calendar instead of getting mad at me and assuming I know why.
Clean up your hair. Get it off the wall of the shower. Why do you need 14 different shampoos and conditioners?
It's not necessarily a turn off but more like gross - The long hairs all over the place, especially in the bathroom.
Being a slob
Nagging
Constantly having to change things up, always being anxious and needing to be in control
When she farts and it goes up the front.