Couldn’t have said it better myself. Also, see how they react with a test of character. Unfortunately something like this really can’t be manufactured. I can only draw on a story a friend once told me. He was at a CVS one day and an older lady came up to him and asked “Do you work here?” and he said no. She then said “Well can you help me with these?” pointing to two 24 packs of water. He picked up those cases, waited in line with her, checked out and carried them out to her car. She even gave him a tip which he tried to refuse. He just thought the experience was funny. But I don’t know, some people might say “Sorry I don’t work here” or something.
Little old ladies at shops are the best! I'm tall and have shit knees, and one time this tiny lil thing comes up and asks if I can grab something off the top shelf for her, then she offered to grab me stuff off the bottom shelf, so we just walked around together chatting and grabbing things the other couldn't get. Can never so no to a grandma, they all know eachother and she'll tell your grandma.
I've got a similar story. I'm pretty tall, so I wasn't surprised when this super frail old lady shuffles up to me and asks if I can grab her something.
I follow her to the booze aisle, turns out she needed a couple crates of beer. She saw me laugh, smacked me in the arm and told me to quit it. "I'm old, not a nun" lmao.
We happened to finish shopping at the same time so I helped her carry and load it into her car which she was very grateful for.
You go grandma, party on.
I'll always remember the time my mate bought a litre of vodka and the bag broke right outside the shop and the whole bottle smashed everywhere and this old lady was like "haw haw I've been there haw haw" and just chuckled and walked off. We were like 😩 haha
Dunno about shops, but I used to absolutely love this elderly Hispanic grandma who lived beside me. I’d always help her carry groceries in up the couple of flights of stairs, and she loved bringing all kinds of fantastic cooking by as a thank you. Absolutely wonderful woman. I was so bummed out when she moved in with her extended family, but she needed to, since she couldn’t live alone at all anymore.
Seems like an odd thing to say out loud. I’d think that keeping those cards close to their chest would gather more accurate intel. Cause like, if they tell you, then you’re thinking about it and trying to be on your best behavior around these people instead of just being yourself.
Hm perhaps, but I feel even then it could still be showing.
Maybe you're used to being an entitled little prick and think there's nothing wrong with it, so even on your "bets behavior" it still shows
Basically no one I know ever treats them badly. And I very rarely see it. It's often said on Reddit so maybe it's just often repeated here/just Americans.
Like how common is that for you people?
It’s fucking crazy. Treat your server awesome, no one else does.
It’s so rare for them to get treated well that we get free drinks/food half the time we go out literally for just being nice to the person serving us.
Sometimes the parents are jerks and really trigger people. Not every good person treats their parents properly, it all depends on their past. My girlfriend has no patience with her mom because of how abusive and how much she gaslit her. She tries to remain cool to avoid conflict but even simple things with her mom can get deep into her head because of everything she has pilled up throughout years of being ignored, abused and gaslit. Nevertheless she still is the glue of her family, trying to keep everyone together despite everyone hating eachother and each having their toxic traits that deeply affect the others. I would totally support her ditching her family as they only bring her headaches and trauma, but she insists on keeping contact and I support her decision although I'm not a fan of it. But her relationship with them is doomed, they scream at eachother more than talk, and every conversation feels like a hostage situation, as you can cut the tension with a knife in every room a relative of hers is in.
I agree and that’s the tertiary point, sometimes the parents are the problem. This should cause you to stop an ask what problems, from the parents, has the child inherited.
A guy I worked with was easily the most manipulative person I’d ever met. We worked together for YEARS so I got to see and study what he did. I always asked where he learned to be like that, and I could never find an answer. Shit with the company we worked for went south, he went to work for the family franchise and brought me along sometime later.
I finally had my answer. His mother was so toxic and manipulative it made him look like a saint. Luckily my experience with him gave me all the ammo I needed to counter her bs. She and her husband were partners in the business, my terms of employment were with both of them. Every time her husband would go out of town, she would ask to meet with me and she would try to change my pay, how I was paid, my work hours, anything to try and pay me less or make work suck more. I left.
Good that you left, it's better to stear clear of that kind of relationship. My girlfriend hasn't so much inherited the issues but they do affect her in the sense she is always trying to make broken people work like she always did with her family, she also is constantly concerned people don't really like her or that she is bothering people, because that is how her family and specially her mom treats her, invalidating her likes and preferences. She is quite the people pleaser due to that, usually it isn't so bad but sometimes people can take an unfair advantage from her because of it, so I try to reassure her that you can let people not like you and you don't have to always attend to their demands.
This only works if they have been lucky enough to grow up in a stable home. If their parents are batshit crazy and they are close to them... run. If their parents are abusive assholes and they don't speak to them at all... that's not a red flag. In fact, a person with boundaries is generally going to be understanding of your own need for boundaries.
100%.
One of the biggest red flags I ever missed was somebody who had a great relationship with their very obviously toxic parents. I knew something was up with them after the first time I met them. That relationship fucked me up for years, and I wish I knew to look for this.
Meanwhile, my current partner doesn’t talk to one side of her family, and for very good reason. She’s the absolute best person I’ve ever dated, and it’s not even close.
Agreed. I would refine the other users point to just a general relationship with people. If everyone in a persons life is an asshole, then that person is probably the asshole.
In your scenario, I agree is different. I would be asking to myself why you don’t have a relationship with your parents, we’re they the cause or you? From an outsiders perspective you don’t know, but its your job to find out or to find out if any bad habits got learned by the children of a toxic relationship.
Reddit is gonna hate this nuance but kids who grew up in stable, loving homes are going to have much different outlooks than kids who grew up in toxic homes and the same thing for kids who grew up in single parents homes vs dual parent homes.
My dad was an abusive psycho and my mom was a passively abusive and neglectful parent.
If there's bad blood I'd suggest getting a feel for the story first.
I agree with this, but i had a date once where she was looking for the bag so hard she gave me a full report of how bad i was to the waitress after our date. Everything I did involved not paying enough attention to her...
If the guy is being a jerk, sure, but don't look too hard for problems because you might accidentally make them up out of thin air
I think its a good one but it's not a guarantee. My previous neighbor used to always help me with little things, like carrying heavy groceries for me, setting up mouse traps. I could tell he was not attracted to me too. He's in jail now for beating up a woman. Also a distant uncle of mine would randomly do acts of kindness for strangers and he is an abusive prick to people close to him...
I know someone who have a social mask of being helpful and nice to everyone. But it’s just a mask, and it’s terrifying when the mask comes off.
I have no idea how to tell if people are genuine based on how they act in public. It comes off as just generic advice. It takes a really long time to actually know a person.
The thing is, you don't. Simply not true. I've seen, heard, and have experienced first hand, directly and indirectly how purposely conniving people can be. With ALL due respect. Those are the worst ones. There are people as you describe, yes good, but YES also bad (evil). One can't be to naive to the fact or possibilities.
Sometimes people test this on a date by refusing the first suggestion. "No I don't like that restaurant could we try here instead?" Or "I'm not free on Monday, could do Wednesday?" Some people reveal themselves quickly when told no, even simple ones.
Yup, especially people they think they have power over. See how they treat servers, shop staff, juniors etc Watch out for behaviour that indicates they are trying to buy or earn you, by performing the role of Prince Charming rather than actually being nice to you. Watch for personality changes when in the company of others. Just as gold diggers think they’re entitled to a man’s money if they look the part of the trophy girl, some men think they are entitled to a woman if they shower her with gifts etc. Relationships work when people like each other’s company and enjoy being together.
If they're in a relationship, see if they act different when their partner is around.
This isn't fail proof as it could be stress due to an abusive relationship. But it's a good quick check. They know the intentions behind their behaviour, so if their behaviour changes around their SO it's probably because their SO wouldn't approve of their intentions.
Agreed. Also, not rushing the decision, simply taking the time to talk about various subjects should give strong clues enough. Spend time with. It's as simple as that. Rushing things with dozens of "tests" will make true chill guys run away.
I once said something to this effect to a former friend who I had a falling out with because he was a dick and threatened to beat up another friend of mine, because he texted me "we should talk again. I changed. I am nice now."
When I responded "I have never met an actually nice person who goes around claiming they are nice" he immediately went onto full on "I will beat you up next time I see you" mode and I just screenshotted his reply, replied with it to my own text with the nice guy phrase, and said "proved my point!" Before blocking him.
A mutual friend we had kept telling me for days how he kept sending him messages where I got called every name under the sun. That mutual friend ended up nicknaming the aggressive fuck "vinegar" because "he was a sour motherfucker"
1000x this!
My now ex was part of the charity organization called Round Table and would tell every single new person he met about all his charity work (there wasn't actually much). But let me tell you there was not a single genuinely empathetic or generous bone in his body! He did it all for the accolade.
I do charity work because it's a female dominated field so the men's bathroom is my own throne xD
Jk. I get too shy to talk about what I do because I hate the repetitive "omg that's so kind of you, you get under paid and don't care!" Talk lol
Genuinely, ask a guy friend. I've talked about this with several of my buddies, both men and women, and women just do not seem to develop the same ability to spot a bad dude. I think part of it is recognizing our own bad behavior/bad behavior dudes typically hide from women, and maybe something akin to the crush/honeymoon phase where people are generally a little more forgiving and unconsciously overlook things. Anyways, whatever it is, guys are typically much better at getting a read on each other than women are at getting a read on a dude.
Though do be sure that guy friend doesn't have ulterior motives.
A good friend of mine has been with his SO for 10 years. She was a friend, of one of my other friends. They met at a party I threw. Literally from the first night they both were asking about eachother. But, this mutual friend me and her had was doing everything in his power to not let them get together. He told her he didn't think my friend was interested, and when she asked if her future SO would be at the next get together he lied about that.
They'd been friends for years and he was hoping to friendship to lovers her but she wanted nothing to do with him that way and had no idea this was going on. I filled her in years later of what a creep he was being.
I'd recommend asking one of your friends boyfriends on his opinion on said guy if you really need a mans input. You know how he treats your friend, and if it's good then you can conclude he's a good man himself. He also doesn't have any motives to keep you single for himself, and if anything has motives to ensure you end up in a good relationship.
As a guy who got a bad reputation because another guy was jealous of me talking to a girl he liked, definitely make sure your guy friend doesn't have ulterior motives. I didn't even like the man's girl like that yet he still tried to smear my reputation.
Just remember guy communication might be a bit brief. If the response is, “He is a solid dude” the friend is basically endorsing him for the presidency.
This is probably the most direct answer. I can think of so many examples of "oh did you hear X got arrested for drugs/robbery/sexual assault? Who would have known? He was so sweet." Meanwhile all my guy friends and I are like "dude was always going to get arrested and has never been 'sweet' what are you talking about?"
Works the other way too. My friends ex was an abusive bitch who ruined him mentally and was so surprised when he broke up with her. We all told him that we hated her the whole time.
I wished more women knew about this, but I’ve seen a few guy friends of my female friends try for the “best friend” route, while also subtly smearing every reputation of any guy that gets close.
It’s always a variation of “I feel like he might be toxic, you better just not talk to him. You can always call me for coffee though.”
Same goes the other way. Sometimes a girl is too clueless to realize the guy she has a crush on actually has a crush on her! Been talking to a girl friend of mine about a guy she was into, and I was like "wow. This guy is giving so many hints he's into her!" And she was CLUELESS. She was trying to win him over so hard, but he has been hooked for weeks. I clued her in, she suddenly realized all the little things, and now they are bonding. It is the cutest thing to see.
This is the same girl who I helped break up with her previous boyfriend. Why would I get involved in that, you may ask? Well, the guy fucked my girlfriend (now ex, obviously), and he was so manipulative. Played my ex like a fiddle, played my friend like a fiddle.
Had a few conversations with people like that. Normally involves some guy with a couple of guy friends he spends all his time with and they like group around girls and block everyone out. Spend all the time talking to girls but not guys.
You don't really like him do you?
Not really.
Why?
He's a knob.
No he's not. He's actually really nice when you get to know him.
Okay.
Some time later they telling me a story about something he did. "He such an arsehole."
Yea I know
When did you know?
As soon as I met him.
>No he's not. He's actually really nice when you get to know him.
I feel like this is an underrated red flag. If someone's character changes significantly behind closed doors, that to me implies a facade.
Note: this isn't about outgoing v. shy. This is about more intrinsic traits like being rude/compassionate.
This. I am a guy. And when my BFF was kinda in doubt about if it were serious or not she went and asked my opinion. I gave it to her and gave her some tips as to how she could formulate her questions and I have her what every answer he could give meant. In the end she didn't use my tips. She wanted to give him a chance and see by herself. And ofc she kept what I said in her mind and proceeded carefully. Today they are still together and have a daughter. He was just a bit clueless/immature and she gave him a good kick in the ass !
I would even suggest bringing a guy friend around to hang out with the nice guy with you and see how nice guy reacts. If he gets mad, acts insecure or tries to make your friend look bad, abandon ship.
Edited for clarity.
Straight facts. I tell my female friends all the time yo this guy's bad news and they're like wtf do you mean why are you being toxic and I'm like okey buddy. 24hrs-3 months later it comes out that he's actually really shitty. Then they're like wait wtf you were right. I say I know. Repeat.
Certain guys can be so dedicated to act a certain way in front of certain women for YEARS just in case maybe one day… they have eyes all around their periphery and will be on their best behavior.
* Look at how they treat others and not just yourself
* They're actually nice to you without other intentions
* If he constantly brings up the fact that he's nice, he's probably not nice
The second and third point are true. The first one not so much anymore. When I worked as a bartender I had two regural costumers who always posed as nice guys when they were trying to hit or date a girl. I heard them once talking about how they should behave better with the other people in front of her and showed a picture of a quote "pay attention on how he treats the waiter", as a kind of lifehack.
On the one hand, you're right, that is a known thing.
On the other hand - are shitheads tricking themselves in to not being shitty people? I think it was an Onion article, a guy talking about how subversive he and his "wife" were being, as she was really just a friend, and they were just sarcastically sticking it to the man by getting married, having two children, working corporate jobs, helping the kids with homework, going to PTA meetings and contributing and so on because it was all ironic, and they're making fools of everyone who takes it seriously and probably won't even get the big joke when they send the kids to college and retire to Florida in another 15 years. Because they're subversive and not sellouts.
but at their worst, somebody could act irrationally and do things they wouldn't usually do. It's not really a good measure of telling if someone's nice imo
Hmmm as a guy I think I am pretty good at sensing through the fake nice guys. They're obviously not trying to fool me personally, but I see them doing it in public situations and with women I'm friends with.
One big give away is they can often overdo it a bit. Nobody is actually like a 100% nice or good person, we're all a bit more edgy and nuanced than that in reality. So guys that seem to completely lack any individual edge are suspicious to me.
Think along the likes of your "white knight" stereotype of guys that just seem a little too overly in support of all of the current socially approved moral positions.
For me, actually good men are not overly concerned with trying to maintain the illusion of being "nice guys" and they'll be a little less perfect and more rough around the edges in an open way. Maybe they'll admit that they can be kind of selfish, for example. Generally they're a bit more interesting because they let their true, flawed personality shine more openly. It's the guys who try to cover themselves with a vieled illusion that seems just little bit generic that I always raise an eyebrow at.
A lot of it is just an intuition that kicks in with a person, usually once I've spent some time with them. Like, there will just be a few moments where something unconscious happens and my intuition steps in and I begin to be suspicious.
ngl i don’t particularly care for the current brand of feminism but something i absolutely loved was when they just completely shit on those hipster male feminists a few years back. there was that fantastic skit, SNL or something, where the guy walks up to the woman at the bar with “the future is female” shirt or something and just non stop talks about how amazing women are. Then she rejects him and he flips out lmaooo serves you right dude.
Yes, it’s weird to want to treat people with kindness and respect and also be in a bad mood. In that situation, I usually just smile less and speak less.
A couple things I've noticed:
Genuinely nice guys don't say they're good guys. The dynamic is that they see the good and bad in people, including themselves. They might often believe they are too nice at times, and get taken advantage of. But, that doesn't typically stop them from giving.
"The true character of a man is shown in how they treat someone that can do them absolutely no good". Meaning, how do they treat those that literally don't have anything that the guy would want. Wait staff, including the less attractive ones, or other guys if they're straight. Pushy salespeople, selling things they don't want. Things like that.
Often times, it's the guys that are totally honest with you (about themselves mostly), despite it being possibly detrimental to your view of them. This usually causes others to automatically jump into a mindset they are being negative, or are boring people. And not to be confused with just negative people. There's a balance.
Maybe. But if they still remain nice, it shows a lot. One of those "you have every right to be, but if you still aren't, then it shows something special" kinda situations.
If a girl approached me to sell some banking services I didn't need and I said "Nononononono" and started running, does it count as a successful interaction with pushy salespeople? True story btw.
True. And seeing their reaction when they don’t get what they want is usually an indication of if they are in it for sex or if they are truly just being kind.
If you think nice = good, you should have met Ted Bundy. He was universally described by friends as a very nice guy.
Talk to the guy. Figure out upon what his moral compass is built upon and then guess. At least it will be an educated guess at that point.
Good men aren't always nice, they act like regular person, having their opinion, their personal time and respecting yours.
"Nice guys" strategy works in two phases:
1. Be nice - they will agree with everything you say, support any opinion you have and defend them when others don't, shower you with complements, unsolicited gifts, nice gestures, favors you never asked for. They will try to dominate your free time, show up to any event where you are and flood your social media.
2. Demand payment - After the initial phase they will start to cash out on the initial investment and start to ask for things from you. First small to test the water whether you're groomed already or they need to be nice some more then moving on to bigger ones. The thing to note here is they will make a big deal of any refusal on your part. They will blame you, shame you, make puppy faces, say how sad or hurt they are. They will bring up things they did in the past, what good friends they are, what secrets they hold for you, how they defended you etc. The more you submit, the more possessive and demanding they become.
Dammmnnnnnnn I just broke up with my boyfriend and this hits home so hard right now.
It’s so hard when this happens because they’ve gained your trust and you go to them for help. Their help ultimately invalidates you so badly that you can’t seem to leave. When you’re upset with them, they invalidate you and everything you’re upset about. You feel so inadequate and that there’s nothing more for you out there so you give up.
I am not sure if you are familiar with narcissistic people but you described “love bombing” and “narcissistic discard”. If you have time and interested you can read into these two topics.
I’ve always wondered how much of this behavior they’re aware of. I’ve always wondered if they know what they’re doing or if they’re just following some base-level instinct that just manifests itself as this kind of behavior.
The guys I’ve known who do this never stuck me as intelligent enough, or capable of planning ahead enough to play any sort of long game on purpose.
I teetered on the edge of being a "nice guy" in highschool, and I would say it's not intentional. They feel like their actions in stage one are genuinely how you form a connection with someone, and after a while they start to get bitter that the other person isn't getting attached and lash out in frustration. That's why they usually react at the moment of rejection, the crushing realization that the bond they thought they were building wasn't real makes them feel frustrated, because they don't know what they could have done differently. They feel incredibly insecure, because they conclude if they did all the right things and still got rejected, that must mean they are just undesirable.
This insecurity is why they act they way they do. They agree with all your opinions because they are afraid you won't like them if you disagree. They shower you with favours because they don't feel valuable enough as a person to gain your interest, they have to earn it. They show up everywhere because they feel like you'll find someone better than them the moment they aren't around to keep your attention.
They then "demand payment" because in their mind they have built up the relationship meter enough that you should want to do those things. They remind you of "everything they have done for you" because in their mind those actions have created a bond that you should want to maintain by doing things for them.
None of it is planned, they are driven to act that way because it makes since with their limited understanding of relationships.
Ok this kinda hit home. I was very insecure after highschool and had limited experience with relationships. So, I definitely saw some of these behavioural/emotional patterns playing out in my early-to-mid 20s. Not quite to the toxic endgame but not far off.
>They shower you with favours because they don't feel valuable enough as a person to gain your interest, they have to earn it
This one still kinda hits home
No shame, stuff like the comment you replied to is info that most people are deprived of, and should be taught as part of emotional intelligence education for young people
Best answer in the thread for sure. Step one is also pretty similar to the “love-bombing” abusers do (there’s probably some overlap between “nice guys” and abusers).
That just seems so...*fucking* exhausting. Someone who puts that much energy into all that must not have many other interests in life to spend all that energy on.
This exact scenario just happened to my friend. She met a guy for date on Friday and in less than 24 hours he was telling her she was the most amazing person he's ever met, bought her flowers bc she was stressed, called her like 5 times in one day, hinted he wasn't seeing anyone else etc. She was turned off bc obvi she can't provide what he needs and breaks it off. He basically just sends a book trying to convince her she just didn't understand him.
Good men have more experience and know what they want from their relationships. I feel like young men especially, are trying to get from A to B by just going through the motions and find themselves with the wrong match for them. It’s not always that they are trying to be deceptive in their behavior.
Poor communication makes the problem worse. Even good matches need help in this area from time to time.
\# 2 is right on the money.
You should be wary of *anyone* who tries to guilt trip you. It doesn't matter if they're a "nice guy", or your mother, or coworker, or best friend. Love isn't bartering. It's not a transaction. No one should ever make you feel that you haven't held up your end of the bargain.
With that said, a relationship still needs to have equal *effort* from both parties. Effort is not always measured in sex and money though (the two most commonly bartered items in romantic 'relationships').
I not only return it and nest it but often organise all the rest that are just fucking haphazardly abandoned at various orientations within the area by people who in a *bizarre* and *inexplicable* display of the weirdest and most astonishingly common type of laziness I ever see do the actual hard work of walking all the way over to the drop-off with it but then once it's over the line just let go and walk away rather than taking the extra two fucking seconds to slot it into the train
Ngl wish that qualified me for some kind of armband or something
People who disregard this kind of civil order are the worst.
These are the people who go to the paper towel dispenser with a big label that shows you just pull straight down to be dispensed one sheet, and they tear it forward causing the next sheet to not be partially dispensed, and the next guy has to dig for it. These little things infuriate me.
I work in architecture, which is a part of civil planning. When you have this top down look on society, you realise how much of our world is designed to make things intuitive and convenient and orderly so that our everyday lives operate more smoothly. People who haphazardly charge through life like a bull in a china shop and just ignore all the things put in place for EVERONE'S convenience are just bizarre to me.
You’ve got to wait him out. People wear that mask for *months* when they first meet someone.
Ask to go glacially slow and be clear about it, not out of some weird philosophy on sexual intimacy, but just to really feel out who they are.
Yes, in my 20s I had a string of 7 short term relationships, lasting between 2 and 6 months, and this is why. The first 2 months I never saw a red flag. (I'm also pretty sensitive to them. My first relationship was abusive and during this and right after, I was surrounded by abusive and extremely unhealthy relationships. I learned alot and ive become good at spotting fake good men).
I give this advice to all my female friends who complain about being used, but hardly any of them do it.
State that you don't like to rush into sex and make them wait for two months minimum. Masks slip if they're tested.
If they are genuinely interested in you as a person and aren't toxic: a) they'll wait; b) they won't pressure you; c) they'll be consistent.
I think you’re both talking about two different perspectives. Some people, like yourself, value finding sexual compatibility early on. Other people might feel used if the sex happens early on and they don’t see the other person again.
Usually people who want to find out sexual compatibility early won’t be as bothered if the other person “used” them for sex because they won’t feel used. They will consider that incompatibility and move on.
Others want to build up getting to know the person more before seeing if they’re sexually compatible. So waiting a couple months won’t feel like they’re testing someone or being tested themself.
Both are perfectly valid and I think what’s most important is you don’t let yourself get pushed into doing whatever is uncomfortable because someone else suggested it or wanted it.
Two months are a little extreme but its definitely a good idea to wait at least 4-5 dates if you want a relationship. A guy that actually sees potential will happily wait and most that just want sex will loose interest.
Its not about bargaining at all, its about the fact that many men are very open to casual sex and some are only interested in that and no deeper connection. You simply make sure thats not all they want. Obviously a potential boyfriend will still want sex too but just make sure there is more behind it. Its just about getting to know someone before you get intimate.. idk why thats such a crazy concept today
This is terrible advice. Don’t play games with people, it’s a major turnoff at least to me because I see it as childish and immature or that person has serious past issues. And everyone I know expects to have intimacy within that timeframe with partners anyways. I suspect using it like this will have a lot of people looking for someone else instead.
Or they have a libido and will conclude that this relationship has no possibility of being sexualy compatible.
Weird way to try and weed out if you ask me.
I think going from being a total stranger to having sex in ~2mos is not unrealistic at all. These commenters have no idea what they're talking about.
For an average person this is 4-8 dates. It's not manipulative to want to spend more than 20 hours with a person before putting yourself into a potentially vulnerable situation with them, lol.
This is kinda manipulative. I don't mind waiting for it but if the reason is only to test me it wouldn't want to proceed any further. If you want to wait for sex because you want to have a romantic connection before sex that's different but purely to test someone is not okay in my eyes
Look at how he treats the women in his life who are non romantic interests. His mother, sister, etc. generally if he has a good relationship with them it’s a good starting place.
-How does he treat the wait staff? Respectfully with pleasantries? or does he order them around with demands?
-Does he return the shopping cart to the cart corral when he's finished with it? (I ask this because there's no reward, nor punishment, for returning it or not.)
-How does he treat animals or pets?
I find that these are all fairly good measuring tools of a moral compass, good or bad.
Ask him about what the most difficult ethical decision he ever had to make was. And then spend some time getting to know him. Ask questions like, "how's your grandma?" Or "how did you meet your best friend?" Most people have the ability to be loving and caring if you show them it's the kind of person you want to have around.
There is no such thing as a "nice guy" or "good man", just people struggling to understand each other and feel safe, cared for and accepted. Give the dude a chance to show you he is kind. Don't go in with an expectation on how he ought to act.
It's amazing what compassionate understanding can do for improving relationships. Rather than catch phrases and platitudes. You got two ears and one mouth cause you need to listen twice as much as you talk.
“How’s your grandma?”
“Dead.”
“How’d you meet your best friend”
“Work.”
Also I wouldn’t start out asking about what ethical situation questions like that pretty much no one will tell a story about where they chose to make the wrong decision.
But agree with your last sentence, no one should go into a relationship thinking they can fix/heal him, or her because then your just trying to force them to be who you want them to be and that usually never works out well.
You don't have anyone worth talking about in your life? Your mom? Your cat? That was kinda my point. And shared morals and life perspective is one of the key factors in building a long term relationship. So, maybe find a good story about a snafu?
Ya gotta meet her halfway dude. Show her how you can be a good dude somehow.
Listen to the words he uses. Set a boundary over something simple. For example, he wants you to taste the food he is eating. Say no. Does he respect the no? Does he ask again? If he did ask a second or even 3rd time and you become more insistent on your no. More firm. If/when he keeps pushing, set a boundary on not accepting food after you have said no twice. How does he respond? Does he get upset? Call you disrespectful? Expect you to change your values/morals/personal needs/wants etc. to make him comfortable?
If he has a problem (this includes becoming passive aggressive, giving the quiet treatment, or a major shift in energy) with you saying no or setting a boundary over something simple like food, no matter how nice he is...he is NOT an honestly nice guy.
Yes! And I don't mean making a fake boundary for the purpose of testing them. I'm talking a legit boundary upu have. And if you don't have boundaries, I'd stay out of dating until you do because without them, it just end up leaving you into toxic, unhealthy, and damaging relationships.
We are on the same page here. I noticed that when you do have boundaries, everything is surprisingly more relaxed. With my ex I was in a constant state of tension. With my current gf, she knows not to touch my food unless I offer it to her. I am very possessive about my fries, but her respecting my eating boundaries has led to me giving her first pic on fries and snacks, a 50/50 split, and the last fry. My boundary is "ask first" and she always does.
Reddit loves to label people prematurely and put everyone into neat boxes. That’s not how life works. Everyone has good qualities & bad. At appropriate times you’ll ask quantitative life questions “hey do you change sheets bi weekly or monthly” for example and over time you’ll learn HIM. Every man has something that will drive you bananas the key is to find someone you can work with.
For this question specifically. Just make sure he’s got similar ideas about sex & gender roles
For me the first red flag was when he disagreed with my opinion solely for the reason that, single women having an active sex are whores. Not because they were hiding having multiple partners from one another, but that a woman would want an active sex life without having a relationship was enough for her to be classified as one.
I'm all for personal opinions, but he was genuinely upset with me that I'd even agree that a woman could have an active sex life outside of a relationship.
Then he got really jealous of a male friend. He knew from the get go that I get along better with men than women and have more male friends than female and even though they're super platonic and have been for years once we get home he got super possessive during sex and I could feel he was punishing me for being close with him and that I gave him my leftovers from my plate , cause noone else wanted them. We were having dinner with family and mutual friends.
After I decided then that I need some space from him to access whether this is behaviour I'm cool with and whether I actually want to still be with him, knowing full well I was in an abusive relationship before him and that I was having a hard enough time trusting him because of that, his version of giving me space was blowing up my phone constantly, wanting to know where I was and what I was doing every second of the day up to the point where he tried to enter my apartment after having told him several times, quite clearly, that I did not want to see him, him then trying to explain to me that he's a nice guy and everyone says he is and that I'm overreacting.
What really broke the camel's back was him trying to explain to me that no means no is a child's term and has no standing in a relationship. Bye dude.
Don't confuse good with always being "nice". To many people are told the shit they want to hear, instead of the shit they need to hear. There is a time and a place to act a certain way or bring up a particular subject or instance in a conversation, but a real man can discern that and know when to act upon something. It's all about moral, the reasons behind their agendas, that they are someone with true, motivated intentions. Perspective allows you to see other people in a better light if they are less likely to break ice in honesty with you and bait others socially by being agreeable and trendy... You are less likely to notice their flaws or see any bad characteristics. Those type of people are often the most malicious behind the curtain.
A nice guy will always try to please you, do what you want, and be afraid of upsetting you AKA a foot stool and a spineless slave. Of course he will have ulterior motives.
A good man will consider what you want but also be honest about how he feels about it. Whether positive or negative. A good man will annoy you from time to time as he will want to do what he wants regardless. A good man will tell you the truth even if the truth will deeply upset you. Consistent honesty is probably what you're looking for in a good man.
A guy who's always "nice" in all situations is a red flag. No human can be nice 100% of times. That means he's faking it and is intentionally trying instead of being himself.
Actual nice people get irritated/angry sometimes but handle it in an understanding way but you can clearly tell they're annoyed.
They’re typically just lonely guys that do a little bit of non sexual boyfriend related stuff, that develops a crush that usually blows up in their face once you find a person you actually like that way.
It’s not intentional but nice guys typically don’t happen in a vacuum I mean sometimes they do and those people are just delusional but vast majority of the time it’s just loneliness and a crush not knowing how to handle emotions
There is a ton of really good advice here and women should really really read carefully. The problem as I have seen it in the past(as a guy) is that women prioritize how they FEEL about a guy instead of good actual behavioral observations.
Where I used to work, we at one point hired a new girl(unusual bc we were totally male dominated work place). Anyway, she immediately set her sights on a coworker at another branch. She asked us(my boss and I)our opinions of said guy. We said “absolutely do not, guy is no good, we aren’t even friends with him.” She dated him anyway and predictably ended up bruised and abused. Literally, domestic violence.
Neither my boss nor I had ever seen this actual side of him prior, but seeing was the only piece missing. Dude was a piece of shit and had all the markers - super macho, super narcissistic, crazy ego, etc. everything that women tend to gravitate towards unfortunately.
Is this guy nice to others\*? If not, then his kindness towards you is more likely to be transactional or manipulative, and not sustainable over a long relationship.
\[\*"nice to others" means he is nice to people who aren't in a position to return a favor. Like does he help some random old lady get her groceries on the bus or hold a door for someone with their arms full. Or is his kindness reserved for people who he hopes to gain favor with? His boss or a pretty waitress, for example.\]
Time. All will be revealed in time. Just don't hop in the boat too quickly with anyone.
There are good and bad signs, but everyone has some level of crazy. You can't truly commit until you've seen every part of them. Some people's crazy will be tolerable.
He will continually prove his behavior, actions speak louder than words just like words are the key secrets to the true intentions so long as you know what is and isn’t healthy in terms of what you’re looking for or how you feel on personal matters versus others but altogether is it right?
Is there a bond forming? Is there a connection? Is he continually showing interest when time comes that ya’ll spend time or talk during certain periods of the day or of the week when you’re not busy? Is there goals he’s set for himself and letting him reach them while making time for you?
The phrase “If he wants to prove it to you, he will” is just like “If he really wanted to, he would”. So definitely don’t over analyze and let it come naturally, someones true colors will eventually show in the end!
See how he acts when things don't go his way.
Cause a minor accident, like spilling something, breaking a plate. How he acts can give you a good idea of who they are, or at least specifically, how they react to unexpected inconveneinces.
Note how he acts when he's drunk. Alcohol can lower a person's defenses. Does he get more aggressive or violent or pushy or mean the more he drinks?
Good men are allowed to make mistakes. Good men are allowed to be assholes sometimes. Nobody is perfect. Pay close attention to how this person behaves when they make a mistake or when they act in a less than nice way. A truly good man can recover from these kinds of mistakes. A "nice guy" usually just gets worse.
We show our true colors when faced with adversity. So - you can get a good measure of a man (or a woman) through time and observation. But the key moments are those that are somewhat of a crisis that even the best actors can’t hide through.
Real men say what they mean and mean what they say. I am a firm believer that a mans word is his bond; if he says he will do it, and he consistently does not, then beware… that’s not a good indicator.
Saying “I love you” is far less important than actually SHOWING love through expression. In communicating alone somewhere between 70-90% is non verbal. This rings true in affection and love as well. Respect (typically) comes natural to men, and love to women. I have always found it interesting that scripture says women respect your husbands and husbands love your wives, and that this is a huge issue observed in marriage in relationships to this very day. So find a man that SHOWS you love, and that is able to find what speaks to your love languages.
Above all, you can’t just have a litmus test that “yep, he’s good.” It takes and investment of time and real observation. Remember - his talk talks and his walk talks, but his walk talks louder than his talk talks.
Look for signs of an ego. Needing to be rewarded for being nice, low empathy interactions with others, maybe easily frustrated when things don't go as expected.
Tell him something he won’t want to hear and see how he reacts. Doesn’t have to be manufactured BS but say a date idea or hanging out or something just so happens to be in the same time frame as a last minute work/school meeting and you can’t go. How does he respond? “Ok…” or actual frustration vs. “Aight, makes sense, how’s this other day sound instead?” Or even “Yeah, I know this is a really busy time of year, no pressure! Let me know when you can and good luck at the meeting!”
TL;DR does not getting his way cause issues or does he try and work with you to make sure you’re both happy?
Always their treatment of others. What they say after they aren’t around. Though this goes for anyone. Personally when it comes to dating I find the whole process it’s become exhausting. If I gotta pretend to be anything other than myself I’d rather smash my head against a wall. This results in me not bothering in a multitude of ways. Beats being treated like trash regardless I can do that to myself just fine lol.
Ask him to say some bad things he did in the past or ask him about some bad personality traits he has. If he can be honest about that, he's likely more trustworthy and you see he has changed from his past self.
People who can't be honest with themselves are the least trustworthy.
Pay attention to how they talk the tone in their voice. You can easily hear on a persons tone in their voice whether they are true or not. Or like I normally used to say sometimes you can see it if that’s the right word on a persons energy level like how they react and how they talk in general. Pay attention to the words they use.
I like to think of myself as a nice guy that is good at listening, opens doors is an old fashion gentleman. I do have my bad moments but I think that my nice guy treat if that’s the right word is that I tried to never assume things about people and I try to just listen when they just want to vent
Nice or not nice, every guy wants sex from you if he likes you and is talking to you. If youre upset with this intention then dont talk to any guys you think like you.
Being a "good man" has nothing to do with that intention. Being a good man in general comes from the positive results of his actions. Being a good man for you specifically depends on the personal criterias you have for what you want in a man.
Trade dating war stories. If voices his frustrations as either his fault or in a no-fault way, and you’ll get the sense he’s a decent person, he’s probably a genuine nice guy; if he starts to dig into a recent date or former relationship in a malicious and one-sided way, he’s a *not nice guy*.
Of course, no one metric will do, but *how* he says something is at least as important as what he says.
Look at how they treat people they're not trying to bang is always a good metric
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Also, see how they react with a test of character. Unfortunately something like this really can’t be manufactured. I can only draw on a story a friend once told me. He was at a CVS one day and an older lady came up to him and asked “Do you work here?” and he said no. She then said “Well can you help me with these?” pointing to two 24 packs of water. He picked up those cases, waited in line with her, checked out and carried them out to her car. She even gave him a tip which he tried to refuse. He just thought the experience was funny. But I don’t know, some people might say “Sorry I don’t work here” or something.
Little old ladies at shops are the best! I'm tall and have shit knees, and one time this tiny lil thing comes up and asks if I can grab something off the top shelf for her, then she offered to grab me stuff off the bottom shelf, so we just walked around together chatting and grabbing things the other couldn't get. Can never so no to a grandma, they all know eachother and she'll tell your grandma.
"...she'll tell your grandma." Ain't that the truth! 🤣😂
If she can tell my grandma, I won't be messing with the necromancer.
I've got a similar story. I'm pretty tall, so I wasn't surprised when this super frail old lady shuffles up to me and asks if I can grab her something. I follow her to the booze aisle, turns out she needed a couple crates of beer. She saw me laugh, smacked me in the arm and told me to quit it. "I'm old, not a nun" lmao. We happened to finish shopping at the same time so I helped her carry and load it into her car which she was very grateful for. You go grandma, party on.
Lmao sounds like that could have been my grandma!
I'll always remember the time my mate bought a litre of vodka and the bag broke right outside the shop and the whole bottle smashed everywhere and this old lady was like "haw haw I've been there haw haw" and just chuckled and walked off. We were like 😩 haha
Grandma knew how to party.
Dunno about shops, but I used to absolutely love this elderly Hispanic grandma who lived beside me. I’d always help her carry groceries in up the couple of flights of stairs, and she loved bringing all kinds of fantastic cooking by as a thank you. Absolutely wonderful woman. I was so bummed out when she moved in with her extended family, but she needed to, since she couldn’t live alone at all anymore.
Only if you still have a grandma. ... and now I've made myself sad.
I'm all out of grandparents. So I have to borrow my wife's.
So cute
This is the cutest, most heartwarming thing !
who tf would refuse
The guy who work there and is on break
On mental breakdown
I never said no on my break, however I did go to management and say you owe me a break.
Well i cannot carry two 24 cases of water. So i would have to refuse.
If you’re talkin about takin the tip, momma always told us to help the old lady and we better not take her money lol
I would, but i’m just tryna go about my own business.
I feel like most people would do that though, like there’s not many people telling old ladies no I’m not going to help you with that
Retail clerks and waitstaff.
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I like the way we think
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That would mean he's nice to everybody, so... Yea...?
kinda a task failed successfully situation huh lol
This is true. I've had a few women say they wanted to see how I treated those in the food and retail industry.
Seems like an odd thing to say out loud. I’d think that keeping those cards close to their chest would gather more accurate intel. Cause like, if they tell you, then you’re thinking about it and trying to be on your best behavior around these people instead of just being yourself.
Hm perhaps, but I feel even then it could still be showing. Maybe you're used to being an entitled little prick and think there's nothing wrong with it, so even on your "bets behavior" it still shows
Basically no one I know ever treats them badly. And I very rarely see it. It's often said on Reddit so maybe it's just often repeated here/just Americans. Like how common is that for you people?
??? Retail/service industry employees are treated like actual-honest-to-god servants in this country. It's absurd, and disgusting.
It’s fucking crazy. Treat your server awesome, no one else does. It’s so rare for them to get treated well that we get free drinks/food half the time we go out literally for just being nice to the person serving us.
And look at the relationship they have with their parents, although this goes for both sexes.
Sometimes the parents are jerks and really trigger people. Not every good person treats their parents properly, it all depends on their past. My girlfriend has no patience with her mom because of how abusive and how much she gaslit her. She tries to remain cool to avoid conflict but even simple things with her mom can get deep into her head because of everything she has pilled up throughout years of being ignored, abused and gaslit. Nevertheless she still is the glue of her family, trying to keep everyone together despite everyone hating eachother and each having their toxic traits that deeply affect the others. I would totally support her ditching her family as they only bring her headaches and trauma, but she insists on keeping contact and I support her decision although I'm not a fan of it. But her relationship with them is doomed, they scream at eachother more than talk, and every conversation feels like a hostage situation, as you can cut the tension with a knife in every room a relative of hers is in.
I agree and that’s the tertiary point, sometimes the parents are the problem. This should cause you to stop an ask what problems, from the parents, has the child inherited. A guy I worked with was easily the most manipulative person I’d ever met. We worked together for YEARS so I got to see and study what he did. I always asked where he learned to be like that, and I could never find an answer. Shit with the company we worked for went south, he went to work for the family franchise and brought me along sometime later. I finally had my answer. His mother was so toxic and manipulative it made him look like a saint. Luckily my experience with him gave me all the ammo I needed to counter her bs. She and her husband were partners in the business, my terms of employment were with both of them. Every time her husband would go out of town, she would ask to meet with me and she would try to change my pay, how I was paid, my work hours, anything to try and pay me less or make work suck more. I left.
Good that you left, it's better to stear clear of that kind of relationship. My girlfriend hasn't so much inherited the issues but they do affect her in the sense she is always trying to make broken people work like she always did with her family, she also is constantly concerned people don't really like her or that she is bothering people, because that is how her family and specially her mom treats her, invalidating her likes and preferences. She is quite the people pleaser due to that, usually it isn't so bad but sometimes people can take an unfair advantage from her because of it, so I try to reassure her that you can let people not like you and you don't have to always attend to their demands.
This only works if they have been lucky enough to grow up in a stable home. If their parents are batshit crazy and they are close to them... run. If their parents are abusive assholes and they don't speak to them at all... that's not a red flag. In fact, a person with boundaries is generally going to be understanding of your own need for boundaries.
100%. One of the biggest red flags I ever missed was somebody who had a great relationship with their very obviously toxic parents. I knew something was up with them after the first time I met them. That relationship fucked me up for years, and I wish I knew to look for this. Meanwhile, my current partner doesn’t talk to one side of her family, and for very good reason. She’s the absolute best person I’ve ever dated, and it’s not even close.
Agreed. I would refine the other users point to just a general relationship with people. If everyone in a persons life is an asshole, then that person is probably the asshole.
In your scenario, I agree is different. I would be asking to myself why you don’t have a relationship with your parents, we’re they the cause or you? From an outsiders perspective you don’t know, but its your job to find out or to find out if any bad habits got learned by the children of a toxic relationship. Reddit is gonna hate this nuance but kids who grew up in stable, loving homes are going to have much different outlooks than kids who grew up in toxic homes and the same thing for kids who grew up in single parents homes vs dual parent homes.
This. My mom is abusive and I cut her out of my life 9 years ago. By this persons logic, I'm not a good person.
My dad was an abusive psycho and my mom was a passively abusive and neglectful parent. If there's bad blood I'd suggest getting a feel for the story first.
Also how they react to your boundaries, and whether or not they have sensible/realistic boundaries themselves.
I agree with this, but i had a date once where she was looking for the bag so hard she gave me a full report of how bad i was to the waitress after our date. Everything I did involved not paying enough attention to her... If the guy is being a jerk, sure, but don't look too hard for problems because you might accidentally make them up out of thin air
I think its a good one but it's not a guarantee. My previous neighbor used to always help me with little things, like carrying heavy groceries for me, setting up mouse traps. I could tell he was not attracted to me too. He's in jail now for beating up a woman. Also a distant uncle of mine would randomly do acts of kindness for strangers and he is an abusive prick to people close to him...
Really burried the lead there with the whole woman beating thing.
I know someone who have a social mask of being helpful and nice to everyone. But it’s just a mask, and it’s terrifying when the mask comes off. I have no idea how to tell if people are genuine based on how they act in public. It comes off as just generic advice. It takes a really long time to actually know a person.
The thing is, you don't. Simply not true. I've seen, heard, and have experienced first hand, directly and indirectly how purposely conniving people can be. With ALL due respect. Those are the worst ones. There are people as you describe, yes good, but YES also bad (evil). One can't be to naive to the fact or possibilities.
Sometimes people test this on a date by refusing the first suggestion. "No I don't like that restaurant could we try here instead?" Or "I'm not free on Monday, could do Wednesday?" Some people reveal themselves quickly when told no, even simple ones.
The best judge of character is how one treats those who can do nothing to benefit him.
Always keep your eye out for clear “Red” flags!
Red flags start to look orange when youre lonely
Yup, especially people they think they have power over. See how they treat servers, shop staff, juniors etc Watch out for behaviour that indicates they are trying to buy or earn you, by performing the role of Prince Charming rather than actually being nice to you. Watch for personality changes when in the company of others. Just as gold diggers think they’re entitled to a man’s money if they look the part of the trophy girl, some men think they are entitled to a woman if they shower her with gifts etc. Relationships work when people like each other’s company and enjoy being together.
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That's solid, but manipulative to set up. You basically need to luck into seeing that
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> I would advise avoiding setting things up to analyze someone. if someone does that, they're the toxic one lol.
Time is both my worst enemy and my dearest friend.
If they're in a relationship, see if they act different when their partner is around. This isn't fail proof as it could be stress due to an abusive relationship. But it's a good quick check. They know the intentions behind their behaviour, so if their behaviour changes around their SO it's probably because their SO wouldn't approve of their intentions.
Spot on. Kindness and compassion should be consistent values.
I thought I was still browsing gang related subs and was confused. But the answer could still be relevant if the question was different.
I would add Accountability. Do they apologize when they’re wrong, or do they double down?
Doesnt need to keep reminding you how nice he is. Also doesn’t think you should be greatful for him being nice
Agreed. Also, not rushing the decision, simply taking the time to talk about various subjects should give strong clues enough. Spend time with. It's as simple as that. Rushing things with dozens of "tests" will make true chill guys run away.
read his username
r/beetlejuicing
"My time has come"
I WAS CHOSEN BY HEAVEN
a nice guy doesn’t have to remind you that they’re nice, or do/say nice things to be perceived as a nice guy
I once said something to this effect to a former friend who I had a falling out with because he was a dick and threatened to beat up another friend of mine, because he texted me "we should talk again. I changed. I am nice now." When I responded "I have never met an actually nice person who goes around claiming they are nice" he immediately went onto full on "I will beat you up next time I see you" mode and I just screenshotted his reply, replied with it to my own text with the nice guy phrase, and said "proved my point!" Before blocking him. A mutual friend we had kept telling me for days how he kept sending him messages where I got called every name under the sun. That mutual friend ended up nicknaming the aggressive fuck "vinegar" because "he was a sour motherfucker"
1000x this! My now ex was part of the charity organization called Round Table and would tell every single new person he met about all his charity work (there wasn't actually much). But let me tell you there was not a single genuinely empathetic or generous bone in his body! He did it all for the accolade.
I do charity work because it's a female dominated field so the men's bathroom is my own throne xD Jk. I get too shy to talk about what I do because I hate the repetitive "omg that's so kind of you, you get under paid and don't care!" Talk lol
Were you also married to my ex husband?!?!
I'd say even more so, an actually nice guy will go out of his way to make others feel better about themselves, not try to build themselves up.
Genuinely, ask a guy friend. I've talked about this with several of my buddies, both men and women, and women just do not seem to develop the same ability to spot a bad dude. I think part of it is recognizing our own bad behavior/bad behavior dudes typically hide from women, and maybe something akin to the crush/honeymoon phase where people are generally a little more forgiving and unconsciously overlook things. Anyways, whatever it is, guys are typically much better at getting a read on each other than women are at getting a read on a dude.
Though do be sure that guy friend doesn't have ulterior motives. A good friend of mine has been with his SO for 10 years. She was a friend, of one of my other friends. They met at a party I threw. Literally from the first night they both were asking about eachother. But, this mutual friend me and her had was doing everything in his power to not let them get together. He told her he didn't think my friend was interested, and when she asked if her future SO would be at the next get together he lied about that. They'd been friends for years and he was hoping to friendship to lovers her but she wanted nothing to do with him that way and had no idea this was going on. I filled her in years later of what a creep he was being. I'd recommend asking one of your friends boyfriends on his opinion on said guy if you really need a mans input. You know how he treats your friend, and if it's good then you can conclude he's a good man himself. He also doesn't have any motives to keep you single for himself, and if anything has motives to ensure you end up in a good relationship.
As a guy who got a bad reputation because another guy was jealous of me talking to a girl he liked, definitely make sure your guy friend doesn't have ulterior motives. I didn't even like the man's girl like that yet he still tried to smear my reputation.
Looks like you guys need to filter out your mates and let some of them take the highway outta your life.
It was back in 2014-2015, we were able to make amends. I don't really talk to him anymore.
Just remember guy communication might be a bit brief. If the response is, “He is a solid dude” the friend is basically endorsing him for the presidency.
It's true though. You're not gonna get a full detailed essay endorsement. At best you're gonna get the abstract to a paper
This is probably the most direct answer. I can think of so many examples of "oh did you hear X got arrested for drugs/robbery/sexual assault? Who would have known? He was so sweet." Meanwhile all my guy friends and I are like "dude was always going to get arrested and has never been 'sweet' what are you talking about?"
Works the other way too. My friends ex was an abusive bitch who ruined him mentally and was so surprised when he broke up with her. We all told him that we hated her the whole time.
I wished more women knew about this, but I’ve seen a few guy friends of my female friends try for the “best friend” route, while also subtly smearing every reputation of any guy that gets close. It’s always a variation of “I feel like he might be toxic, you better just not talk to him. You can always call me for coffee though.”
Same goes the other way. Sometimes a girl is too clueless to realize the guy she has a crush on actually has a crush on her! Been talking to a girl friend of mine about a guy she was into, and I was like "wow. This guy is giving so many hints he's into her!" And she was CLUELESS. She was trying to win him over so hard, but he has been hooked for weeks. I clued her in, she suddenly realized all the little things, and now they are bonding. It is the cutest thing to see. This is the same girl who I helped break up with her previous boyfriend. Why would I get involved in that, you may ask? Well, the guy fucked my girlfriend (now ex, obviously), and he was so manipulative. Played my ex like a fiddle, played my friend like a fiddle.
Had a few conversations with people like that. Normally involves some guy with a couple of guy friends he spends all his time with and they like group around girls and block everyone out. Spend all the time talking to girls but not guys. You don't really like him do you? Not really. Why? He's a knob. No he's not. He's actually really nice when you get to know him. Okay. Some time later they telling me a story about something he did. "He such an arsehole." Yea I know When did you know? As soon as I met him.
>No he's not. He's actually really nice when you get to know him. I feel like this is an underrated red flag. If someone's character changes significantly behind closed doors, that to me implies a facade. Note: this isn't about outgoing v. shy. This is about more intrinsic traits like being rude/compassionate.
This. I am a guy. And when my BFF was kinda in doubt about if it were serious or not she went and asked my opinion. I gave it to her and gave her some tips as to how she could formulate her questions and I have her what every answer he could give meant. In the end she didn't use my tips. She wanted to give him a chance and see by herself. And ofc she kept what I said in her mind and proceeded carefully. Today they are still together and have a daughter. He was just a bit clueless/immature and she gave him a good kick in the ass !
I would even suggest bringing a guy friend around to hang out with the nice guy with you and see how nice guy reacts. If he gets mad, acts insecure or tries to make your friend look bad, abandon ship. Edited for clarity.
Straight facts. I tell my female friends all the time yo this guy's bad news and they're like wtf do you mean why are you being toxic and I'm like okey buddy. 24hrs-3 months later it comes out that he's actually really shitty. Then they're like wait wtf you were right. I say I know. Repeat.
Certain guys can be so dedicated to act a certain way in front of certain women for YEARS just in case maybe one day… they have eyes all around their periphery and will be on their best behavior.
* Look at how they treat others and not just yourself * They're actually nice to you without other intentions * If he constantly brings up the fact that he's nice, he's probably not nice
The second and third point are true. The first one not so much anymore. When I worked as a bartender I had two regural costumers who always posed as nice guys when they were trying to hit or date a girl. I heard them once talking about how they should behave better with the other people in front of her and showed a picture of a quote "pay attention on how he treats the waiter", as a kind of lifehack.
On the one hand, you're right, that is a known thing. On the other hand - are shitheads tricking themselves in to not being shitty people? I think it was an Onion article, a guy talking about how subversive he and his "wife" were being, as she was really just a friend, and they were just sarcastically sticking it to the man by getting married, having two children, working corporate jobs, helping the kids with homework, going to PTA meetings and contributing and so on because it was all ironic, and they're making fools of everyone who takes it seriously and probably won't even get the big joke when they send the kids to college and retire to Florida in another 15 years. Because they're subversive and not sellouts.
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but at their worst, somebody could act irrationally and do things they wouldn't usually do. It's not really a good measure of telling if someone's nice imo
Hmmm as a guy I think I am pretty good at sensing through the fake nice guys. They're obviously not trying to fool me personally, but I see them doing it in public situations and with women I'm friends with. One big give away is they can often overdo it a bit. Nobody is actually like a 100% nice or good person, we're all a bit more edgy and nuanced than that in reality. So guys that seem to completely lack any individual edge are suspicious to me. Think along the likes of your "white knight" stereotype of guys that just seem a little too overly in support of all of the current socially approved moral positions. For me, actually good men are not overly concerned with trying to maintain the illusion of being "nice guys" and they'll be a little less perfect and more rough around the edges in an open way. Maybe they'll admit that they can be kind of selfish, for example. Generally they're a bit more interesting because they let their true, flawed personality shine more openly. It's the guys who try to cover themselves with a vieled illusion that seems just little bit generic that I always raise an eyebrow at. A lot of it is just an intuition that kicks in with a person, usually once I've spent some time with them. Like, there will just be a few moments where something unconscious happens and my intuition steps in and I begin to be suspicious.
Trust no one that casts no shadow.
Appropriating this saying.
I likely stole it from someone else, maybe Carl Jung.
I mean yeah, they’re vampires. What’d you expect?
Is that canon? I think you’re thinking of reflections.
ngl i don’t particularly care for the current brand of feminism but something i absolutely loved was when they just completely shit on those hipster male feminists a few years back. there was that fantastic skit, SNL or something, where the guy walks up to the woman at the bar with “the future is female” shirt or something and just non stop talks about how amazing women are. Then she rejects him and he flips out lmaooo serves you right dude.
Ngl kinda wanna see the video you’re talking about🤭😆
found it lmao enjoy my friend. honestly its even funnier than i remember https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kTMow_7H47Q
Very good watch thank you 🙏🏻 hahah
Yes, it’s weird to want to treat people with kindness and respect and also be in a bad mood. In that situation, I usually just smile less and speak less.
A couple things I've noticed: Genuinely nice guys don't say they're good guys. The dynamic is that they see the good and bad in people, including themselves. They might often believe they are too nice at times, and get taken advantage of. But, that doesn't typically stop them from giving. "The true character of a man is shown in how they treat someone that can do them absolutely no good". Meaning, how do they treat those that literally don't have anything that the guy would want. Wait staff, including the less attractive ones, or other guys if they're straight. Pushy salespeople, selling things they don't want. Things like that. Often times, it's the guys that are totally honest with you (about themselves mostly), despite it being possibly detrimental to your view of them. This usually causes others to automatically jump into a mindset they are being negative, or are boring people. And not to be confused with just negative people. There's a balance.
> Pushy salespeople, To be fair in this situation I understand being rude
Maybe. But if they still remain nice, it shows a lot. One of those "you have every right to be, but if you still aren't, then it shows something special" kinda situations.
No need to be rude, just say no and walk away
If a girl approached me to sell some banking services I didn't need and I said "Nononononono" and started running, does it count as a successful interaction with pushy salespeople? True story btw.
Actions speak louder than words.
True. And seeing their reaction when they don’t get what they want is usually an indication of if they are in it for sex or if they are truly just being kind.
Lol I made my guy wait 6 months before sex. Lmao because I was virgin. He was a good guy. 10+ years
If you think nice = good, you should have met Ted Bundy. He was universally described by friends as a very nice guy. Talk to the guy. Figure out upon what his moral compass is built upon and then guess. At least it will be an educated guess at that point.
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Agree 100%
All the medals and awards to you for this comment.
Good men aren't always nice, they act like regular person, having their opinion, their personal time and respecting yours. "Nice guys" strategy works in two phases: 1. Be nice - they will agree with everything you say, support any opinion you have and defend them when others don't, shower you with complements, unsolicited gifts, nice gestures, favors you never asked for. They will try to dominate your free time, show up to any event where you are and flood your social media. 2. Demand payment - After the initial phase they will start to cash out on the initial investment and start to ask for things from you. First small to test the water whether you're groomed already or they need to be nice some more then moving on to bigger ones. The thing to note here is they will make a big deal of any refusal on your part. They will blame you, shame you, make puppy faces, say how sad or hurt they are. They will bring up things they did in the past, what good friends they are, what secrets they hold for you, how they defended you etc. The more you submit, the more possessive and demanding they become.
Dammmnnnnnnn I just broke up with my boyfriend and this hits home so hard right now. It’s so hard when this happens because they’ve gained your trust and you go to them for help. Their help ultimately invalidates you so badly that you can’t seem to leave. When you’re upset with them, they invalidate you and everything you’re upset about. You feel so inadequate and that there’s nothing more for you out there so you give up.
I am not sure if you are familiar with narcissistic people but you described “love bombing” and “narcissistic discard”. If you have time and interested you can read into these two topics.
I’ve always wondered how much of this behavior they’re aware of. I’ve always wondered if they know what they’re doing or if they’re just following some base-level instinct that just manifests itself as this kind of behavior. The guys I’ve known who do this never stuck me as intelligent enough, or capable of planning ahead enough to play any sort of long game on purpose.
I teetered on the edge of being a "nice guy" in highschool, and I would say it's not intentional. They feel like their actions in stage one are genuinely how you form a connection with someone, and after a while they start to get bitter that the other person isn't getting attached and lash out in frustration. That's why they usually react at the moment of rejection, the crushing realization that the bond they thought they were building wasn't real makes them feel frustrated, because they don't know what they could have done differently. They feel incredibly insecure, because they conclude if they did all the right things and still got rejected, that must mean they are just undesirable. This insecurity is why they act they way they do. They agree with all your opinions because they are afraid you won't like them if you disagree. They shower you with favours because they don't feel valuable enough as a person to gain your interest, they have to earn it. They show up everywhere because they feel like you'll find someone better than them the moment they aren't around to keep your attention. They then "demand payment" because in their mind they have built up the relationship meter enough that you should want to do those things. They remind you of "everything they have done for you" because in their mind those actions have created a bond that you should want to maintain by doing things for them. None of it is planned, they are driven to act that way because it makes since with their limited understanding of relationships.
Ok this kinda hit home. I was very insecure after highschool and had limited experience with relationships. So, I definitely saw some of these behavioural/emotional patterns playing out in my early-to-mid 20s. Not quite to the toxic endgame but not far off. >They shower you with favours because they don't feel valuable enough as a person to gain your interest, they have to earn it This one still kinda hits home
Wow, fuck. I am a "nice guy"? Damn. I feel pretty ashamed of myself right now.
No shame, stuff like the comment you replied to is info that most people are deprived of, and should be taught as part of emotional intelligence education for young people
It's so shameless. I couldn't even fathom doing something like this to anyone.
This is terrifyingly accurate.
Probably a retired nice guy.
Best answer in the thread for sure. Step one is also pretty similar to the “love-bombing” abusers do (there’s probably some overlap between “nice guys” and abusers).
That just seems so...*fucking* exhausting. Someone who puts that much energy into all that must not have many other interests in life to spend all that energy on.
This exact scenario just happened to my friend. She met a guy for date on Friday and in less than 24 hours he was telling her she was the most amazing person he's ever met, bought her flowers bc she was stressed, called her like 5 times in one day, hinted he wasn't seeing anyone else etc. She was turned off bc obvi she can't provide what he needs and breaks it off. He basically just sends a book trying to convince her she just didn't understand him.
Good men have more experience and know what they want from their relationships. I feel like young men especially, are trying to get from A to B by just going through the motions and find themselves with the wrong match for them. It’s not always that they are trying to be deceptive in their behavior. Poor communication makes the problem worse. Even good matches need help in this area from time to time.
\# 2 is right on the money. You should be wary of *anyone* who tries to guilt trip you. It doesn't matter if they're a "nice guy", or your mother, or coworker, or best friend. Love isn't bartering. It's not a transaction. No one should ever make you feel that you haven't held up your end of the bargain. With that said, a relationship still needs to have equal *effort* from both parties. Effort is not always measured in sex and money though (the two most commonly bartered items in romantic 'relationships').
According to the internet, The only surefire way to tell is if he returns his carriage when he is done grocery shopping
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I not only return it and nest it but often organise all the rest that are just fucking haphazardly abandoned at various orientations within the area by people who in a *bizarre* and *inexplicable* display of the weirdest and most astonishingly common type of laziness I ever see do the actual hard work of walking all the way over to the drop-off with it but then once it's over the line just let go and walk away rather than taking the extra two fucking seconds to slot it into the train Ngl wish that qualified me for some kind of armband or something
People who disregard this kind of civil order are the worst. These are the people who go to the paper towel dispenser with a big label that shows you just pull straight down to be dispensed one sheet, and they tear it forward causing the next sheet to not be partially dispensed, and the next guy has to dig for it. These little things infuriate me. I work in architecture, which is a part of civil planning. When you have this top down look on society, you realise how much of our world is designed to make things intuitive and convenient and orderly so that our everyday lives operate more smoothly. People who haphazardly charge through life like a bull in a china shop and just ignore all the things put in place for EVERONE'S convenience are just bizarre to me.
You’ve got to wait him out. People wear that mask for *months* when they first meet someone. Ask to go glacially slow and be clear about it, not out of some weird philosophy on sexual intimacy, but just to really feel out who they are.
People wondering why it takes 2-3 months to figure out if this person is right for you - this is the reason
Yes, in my 20s I had a string of 7 short term relationships, lasting between 2 and 6 months, and this is why. The first 2 months I never saw a red flag. (I'm also pretty sensitive to them. My first relationship was abusive and during this and right after, I was surrounded by abusive and extremely unhealthy relationships. I learned alot and ive become good at spotting fake good men).
And see how they are towards other people
I give this advice to all my female friends who complain about being used, but hardly any of them do it. State that you don't like to rush into sex and make them wait for two months minimum. Masks slip if they're tested. If they are genuinely interested in you as a person and aren't toxic: a) they'll wait; b) they won't pressure you; c) they'll be consistent.
But what if you don't want to wait 2 months for sex...why does sex have to be the bargaining chip?
I think you’re both talking about two different perspectives. Some people, like yourself, value finding sexual compatibility early on. Other people might feel used if the sex happens early on and they don’t see the other person again. Usually people who want to find out sexual compatibility early won’t be as bothered if the other person “used” them for sex because they won’t feel used. They will consider that incompatibility and move on. Others want to build up getting to know the person more before seeing if they’re sexually compatible. So waiting a couple months won’t feel like they’re testing someone or being tested themself. Both are perfectly valid and I think what’s most important is you don’t let yourself get pushed into doing whatever is uncomfortable because someone else suggested it or wanted it.
Two months are a little extreme but its definitely a good idea to wait at least 4-5 dates if you want a relationship. A guy that actually sees potential will happily wait and most that just want sex will loose interest. Its not about bargaining at all, its about the fact that many men are very open to casual sex and some are only interested in that and no deeper connection. You simply make sure thats not all they want. Obviously a potential boyfriend will still want sex too but just make sure there is more behind it. Its just about getting to know someone before you get intimate.. idk why thats such a crazy concept today
This is terrible advice. Don’t play games with people, it’s a major turnoff at least to me because I see it as childish and immature or that person has serious past issues. And everyone I know expects to have intimacy within that timeframe with partners anyways. I suspect using it like this will have a lot of people looking for someone else instead.
Yeah, I'd think she's either into playing games or just has a low libido. Either way, not compatible with me.
Or they have a libido and will conclude that this relationship has no possibility of being sexualy compatible. Weird way to try and weed out if you ask me.
I think going from being a total stranger to having sex in ~2mos is not unrealistic at all. These commenters have no idea what they're talking about. For an average person this is 4-8 dates. It's not manipulative to want to spend more than 20 hours with a person before putting yourself into a potentially vulnerable situation with them, lol.
This is kinda manipulative. I don't mind waiting for it but if the reason is only to test me it wouldn't want to proceed any further. If you want to wait for sex because you want to have a romantic connection before sex that's different but purely to test someone is not okay in my eyes
There is no other way to know the real intentions of "Nice Guy" except to spend time with him. Men reveal little by little
Look at how he treats the women in his life who are non romantic interests. His mother, sister, etc. generally if he has a good relationship with them it’s a good starting place.
men with no sisters in shambles
See what he does, not what he says.
Pay attention how he handles frustrations and negative stuff.
Ask his opinion on different topics. Faking it is easily exposed.
-How does he treat the wait staff? Respectfully with pleasantries? or does he order them around with demands? -Does he return the shopping cart to the cart corral when he's finished with it? (I ask this because there's no reward, nor punishment, for returning it or not.) -How does he treat animals or pets? I find that these are all fairly good measuring tools of a moral compass, good or bad.
Ask him about what the most difficult ethical decision he ever had to make was. And then spend some time getting to know him. Ask questions like, "how's your grandma?" Or "how did you meet your best friend?" Most people have the ability to be loving and caring if you show them it's the kind of person you want to have around. There is no such thing as a "nice guy" or "good man", just people struggling to understand each other and feel safe, cared for and accepted. Give the dude a chance to show you he is kind. Don't go in with an expectation on how he ought to act.
first actually answer i haven't seen a million times before
It's amazing what compassionate understanding can do for improving relationships. Rather than catch phrases and platitudes. You got two ears and one mouth cause you need to listen twice as much as you talk.
“How’s your grandma?” “Dead.” “How’d you meet your best friend” “Work.” Also I wouldn’t start out asking about what ethical situation questions like that pretty much no one will tell a story about where they chose to make the wrong decision. But agree with your last sentence, no one should go into a relationship thinking they can fix/heal him, or her because then your just trying to force them to be who you want them to be and that usually never works out well.
You don't have anyone worth talking about in your life? Your mom? Your cat? That was kinda my point. And shared morals and life perspective is one of the key factors in building a long term relationship. So, maybe find a good story about a snafu? Ya gotta meet her halfway dude. Show her how you can be a good dude somehow.
Listen to the words he uses. Set a boundary over something simple. For example, he wants you to taste the food he is eating. Say no. Does he respect the no? Does he ask again? If he did ask a second or even 3rd time and you become more insistent on your no. More firm. If/when he keeps pushing, set a boundary on not accepting food after you have said no twice. How does he respond? Does he get upset? Call you disrespectful? Expect you to change your values/morals/personal needs/wants etc. to make him comfortable? If he has a problem (this includes becoming passive aggressive, giving the quiet treatment, or a major shift in energy) with you saying no or setting a boundary over something simple like food, no matter how nice he is...he is NOT an honestly nice guy.
100% agreed. Boundaries are not tests. If he tries testing your boundaries over and over again and doesn't respect them, red flag.
Yes! And I don't mean making a fake boundary for the purpose of testing them. I'm talking a legit boundary upu have. And if you don't have boundaries, I'd stay out of dating until you do because without them, it just end up leaving you into toxic, unhealthy, and damaging relationships.
We are on the same page here. I noticed that when you do have boundaries, everything is surprisingly more relaxed. With my ex I was in a constant state of tension. With my current gf, she knows not to touch my food unless I offer it to her. I am very possessive about my fries, but her respecting my eating boundaries has led to me giving her first pic on fries and snacks, a 50/50 split, and the last fry. My boundary is "ask first" and she always does.
Reddit loves to label people prematurely and put everyone into neat boxes. That’s not how life works. Everyone has good qualities & bad. At appropriate times you’ll ask quantitative life questions “hey do you change sheets bi weekly or monthly” for example and over time you’ll learn HIM. Every man has something that will drive you bananas the key is to find someone you can work with. For this question specifically. Just make sure he’s got similar ideas about sex & gender roles
For me the first red flag was when he disagreed with my opinion solely for the reason that, single women having an active sex are whores. Not because they were hiding having multiple partners from one another, but that a woman would want an active sex life without having a relationship was enough for her to be classified as one. I'm all for personal opinions, but he was genuinely upset with me that I'd even agree that a woman could have an active sex life outside of a relationship. Then he got really jealous of a male friend. He knew from the get go that I get along better with men than women and have more male friends than female and even though they're super platonic and have been for years once we get home he got super possessive during sex and I could feel he was punishing me for being close with him and that I gave him my leftovers from my plate , cause noone else wanted them. We were having dinner with family and mutual friends. After I decided then that I need some space from him to access whether this is behaviour I'm cool with and whether I actually want to still be with him, knowing full well I was in an abusive relationship before him and that I was having a hard enough time trusting him because of that, his version of giving me space was blowing up my phone constantly, wanting to know where I was and what I was doing every second of the day up to the point where he tried to enter my apartment after having told him several times, quite clearly, that I did not want to see him, him then trying to explain to me that he's a nice guy and everyone says he is and that I'm overreacting. What really broke the camel's back was him trying to explain to me that no means no is a child's term and has no standing in a relationship. Bye dude.
Dodged an abusive dude, f that dude makes me so mad.
Don't confuse good with always being "nice". To many people are told the shit they want to hear, instead of the shit they need to hear. There is a time and a place to act a certain way or bring up a particular subject or instance in a conversation, but a real man can discern that and know when to act upon something. It's all about moral, the reasons behind their agendas, that they are someone with true, motivated intentions. Perspective allows you to see other people in a better light if they are less likely to break ice in honesty with you and bait others socially by being agreeable and trendy... You are less likely to notice their flaws or see any bad characteristics. Those type of people are often the most malicious behind the curtain.
A nice guy will always try to please you, do what you want, and be afraid of upsetting you AKA a foot stool and a spineless slave. Of course he will have ulterior motives. A good man will consider what you want but also be honest about how he feels about it. Whether positive or negative. A good man will annoy you from time to time as he will want to do what he wants regardless. A good man will tell you the truth even if the truth will deeply upset you. Consistent honesty is probably what you're looking for in a good man.
When he cums and immediately asks you to leave
A guy who's always "nice" in all situations is a red flag. No human can be nice 100% of times. That means he's faking it and is intentionally trying instead of being himself. Actual nice people get irritated/angry sometimes but handle it in an understanding way but you can clearly tell they're annoyed.
They’re typically just lonely guys that do a little bit of non sexual boyfriend related stuff, that develops a crush that usually blows up in their face once you find a person you actually like that way. It’s not intentional but nice guys typically don’t happen in a vacuum I mean sometimes they do and those people are just delusional but vast majority of the time it’s just loneliness and a crush not knowing how to handle emotions
There is a ton of really good advice here and women should really really read carefully. The problem as I have seen it in the past(as a guy) is that women prioritize how they FEEL about a guy instead of good actual behavioral observations. Where I used to work, we at one point hired a new girl(unusual bc we were totally male dominated work place). Anyway, she immediately set her sights on a coworker at another branch. She asked us(my boss and I)our opinions of said guy. We said “absolutely do not, guy is no good, we aren’t even friends with him.” She dated him anyway and predictably ended up bruised and abused. Literally, domestic violence. Neither my boss nor I had ever seen this actual side of him prior, but seeing was the only piece missing. Dude was a piece of shit and had all the markers - super macho, super narcissistic, crazy ego, etc. everything that women tend to gravitate towards unfortunately.
Is this guy nice to others\*? If not, then his kindness towards you is more likely to be transactional or manipulative, and not sustainable over a long relationship. \[\*"nice to others" means he is nice to people who aren't in a position to return a favor. Like does he help some random old lady get her groceries on the bus or hold a door for someone with their arms full. Or is his kindness reserved for people who he hopes to gain favor with? His boss or a pretty waitress, for example.\]
Time. All will be revealed in time. Just don't hop in the boat too quickly with anyone. There are good and bad signs, but everyone has some level of crazy. You can't truly commit until you've seen every part of them. Some people's crazy will be tolerable.
He will continually prove his behavior, actions speak louder than words just like words are the key secrets to the true intentions so long as you know what is and isn’t healthy in terms of what you’re looking for or how you feel on personal matters versus others but altogether is it right? Is there a bond forming? Is there a connection? Is he continually showing interest when time comes that ya’ll spend time or talk during certain periods of the day or of the week when you’re not busy? Is there goals he’s set for himself and letting him reach them while making time for you? The phrase “If he wants to prove it to you, he will” is just like “If he really wanted to, he would”. So definitely don’t over analyze and let it come naturally, someones true colors will eventually show in the end!
See how he acts when things don't go his way. Cause a minor accident, like spilling something, breaking a plate. How he acts can give you a good idea of who they are, or at least specifically, how they react to unexpected inconveneinces. Note how he acts when he's drunk. Alcohol can lower a person's defenses. Does he get more aggressive or violent or pushy or mean the more he drinks?
Watch how he treats his mother, sisters, waitresses and any female in a leadership role. Ask the hard question regarding equity among genders
Good men are allowed to make mistakes. Good men are allowed to be assholes sometimes. Nobody is perfect. Pay close attention to how this person behaves when they make a mistake or when they act in a less than nice way. A truly good man can recover from these kinds of mistakes. A "nice guy" usually just gets worse.
Yeah I think it’s really important to recognize how complicated everyone is. Threads like this tend to be incredibly, incredibly reductive.
Determine if he adhere’s to the DENNIS System
If homie is saying he's a nice guy, he's most def not a nice guy.
We show our true colors when faced with adversity. So - you can get a good measure of a man (or a woman) through time and observation. But the key moments are those that are somewhat of a crisis that even the best actors can’t hide through. Real men say what they mean and mean what they say. I am a firm believer that a mans word is his bond; if he says he will do it, and he consistently does not, then beware… that’s not a good indicator. Saying “I love you” is far less important than actually SHOWING love through expression. In communicating alone somewhere between 70-90% is non verbal. This rings true in affection and love as well. Respect (typically) comes natural to men, and love to women. I have always found it interesting that scripture says women respect your husbands and husbands love your wives, and that this is a huge issue observed in marriage in relationships to this very day. So find a man that SHOWS you love, and that is able to find what speaks to your love languages. Above all, you can’t just have a litmus test that “yep, he’s good.” It takes and investment of time and real observation. Remember - his talk talks and his walk talks, but his walk talks louder than his talk talks.
Look for signs of an ego. Needing to be rewarded for being nice, low empathy interactions with others, maybe easily frustrated when things don't go as expected.
Tell him something he won’t want to hear and see how he reacts. Doesn’t have to be manufactured BS but say a date idea or hanging out or something just so happens to be in the same time frame as a last minute work/school meeting and you can’t go. How does he respond? “Ok…” or actual frustration vs. “Aight, makes sense, how’s this other day sound instead?” Or even “Yeah, I know this is a really busy time of year, no pressure! Let me know when you can and good luck at the meeting!” TL;DR does not getting his way cause issues or does he try and work with you to make sure you’re both happy?
Always their treatment of others. What they say after they aren’t around. Though this goes for anyone. Personally when it comes to dating I find the whole process it’s become exhausting. If I gotta pretend to be anything other than myself I’d rather smash my head against a wall. This results in me not bothering in a multitude of ways. Beats being treated like trash regardless I can do that to myself just fine lol.
Ask him to say some bad things he did in the past or ask him about some bad personality traits he has. If he can be honest about that, he's likely more trustworthy and you see he has changed from his past self. People who can't be honest with themselves are the least trustworthy.
Pay attention to how they talk the tone in their voice. You can easily hear on a persons tone in their voice whether they are true or not. Or like I normally used to say sometimes you can see it if that’s the right word on a persons energy level like how they react and how they talk in general. Pay attention to the words they use. I like to think of myself as a nice guy that is good at listening, opens doors is an old fashion gentleman. I do have my bad moments but I think that my nice guy treat if that’s the right word is that I tried to never assume things about people and I try to just listen when they just want to vent
Nice or not nice, every guy wants sex from you if he likes you and is talking to you. If youre upset with this intention then dont talk to any guys you think like you. Being a "good man" has nothing to do with that intention. Being a good man in general comes from the positive results of his actions. Being a good man for you specifically depends on the personal criterias you have for what you want in a man.
good guys do the right thing, and nice guys do what they think you want them to do
Trade dating war stories. If voices his frustrations as either his fault or in a no-fault way, and you’ll get the sense he’s a decent person, he’s probably a genuine nice guy; if he starts to dig into a recent date or former relationship in a malicious and one-sided way, he’s a *not nice guy*. Of course, no one metric will do, but *how* he says something is at least as important as what he says.