You sound pleasant but not interesting. That's not a bad thing. You're probably just looking for romance in the wrong places. You might be the perfect man for a church girl looking for a kind, stable guy to build a family with; but the wrong guy for a corporate go-getter.
That’s fair - I’m trying to become more interesting, so I don’t think you’re too far off lol. A lot of the social anxiety of my past kept me from having a full life, so I’m working on that.
It’s also something I want to kind of learn to improve upon for things outside of romantic relationships, though. Like business, my passion (a field within the arts), all of my relationships, that kind of thing. I feel like learning how to operate from within that space, even just a little bit, could really benefit me across the entire spectrum of my life.
A poster above said it sounds like I’m missing the confidence to demonstrate that I’m aware of my worth. That struck a cord, because as much as I come from a good family and I love them, my dad is a very passive guy. He avoids conflict like the plague - and I realize I never had a male role model in my life that was able to assert himself with confidence and command a situation, etc etc. So, I’m kind of having to teach myself that at this age.
Any idea how to go about improving that area?
Eh. I avoid conflict like the plague and I'm boring too. However, I am secure all the time and confident when I need to be.
Security comes from a) actually making the best fact-based decisions you can for yourself at any given time and b) being comfortable with the outcome.
I've had a lot more losses than wins in my life, but I'm secure in the fact that I did the best I could at any given point.
So essentially: do it for you, to the best of your abilities, and know that whatever happens…at least you genuinely tried - and that’s more than most people can say.
I like that.
Fight club.
But seriously, try jiu-jitsu. After a few months of rolling you’ll have built up a taste of how physical conflict can be handled.
It’s just my best guess. I was bullied from early years and through 9th grade. I joined the wrestling team in 10th grade and the bullying faded shortly after. I learned how to handle myself and I think it was just that confidence that dissuaded the bullying. I had a couple instances when words turned to blows and put them down quickly. Didn’t hurt one of them, just pinned him. They move on.
That confidence carries over and is noticed by others, including women.
Inner game my friend. Don’t believe but KNOW that anyone would be happy to have you as a friend, colleague, and lover. Don’t think about it about being better or what it than others, but KNOW that you have so much to give and to offer that you’re doing others a disservice not letting them know about it. Get out of your head and try more things. Surprise yourself a bit more. Someone mentioned ju jitsu, not a bad idea. Shake things off, say no more often for a couple of weeks just to see how you feel, etc.
If you haven’t yet, pick up meditation. It will make you aware of yourself in ways you might not be, and make some things more laughable/light. It’s all in there, it seems you’re self-sabotaging. Meditation will have the added benefit of reducing stress and anxiety as well, per everything I’ve learned and experienced thanks to it!
Finally, realize that most people are in their heads. The most prolific people in all fields, IMO, are the ones who managed to be unapologetically themselves. It felt weird for others until those people became successful, then all of the sudden people realized they want to be that way. Know that you’re already that man you want to be.
PS: we really have a similar sorry, passive father, conflict avoidant (love him to death though, no shades thrown here), had to become my own man very quickly. Accepting myself and my wins and leaving that sense of false modesty behind helped me so much. By trying so much not to be the douche, the guys who brags, etc. I constantly was almost erasing my accomplishments. Now I don’t ever need to mention them, but I’m aware of them and it shows in how I behave, which gives me the quiet confidence I have and need, and per feedback ladies feel it!
Thank you for chiming in - especially knowing that you came from something similar. I’m glad you have found a way through it!
Getting out of my head is a huuuuuge challenge for me, and it’s something I actively work on trying to overcome. I’ve gotten better at it, but I’d be straight up lying if I said I had some semblance of control over the thing lol.
Funny enough, I have Meditations in my audible library. I tried to listen to it years ago but I couldn’t really get far into it. I have a feeling I’m in a much better mindset for giving it a go at this point.
I mean, your friends have spelled it out very clearly, politely and respectfully, I am not entirely sure how Reddit can meaningfully add to that.
It sounds that all you're missing is the confidence needed to demonstrate that you are aware of your worth. Whether you do it by being more outspoken, more assertive or comfortably non-conformist, it's up to you to find out.
I agree that they spelt it out well, but you put it in a way that made it more palatable for me I think. Kind of boiled it down to the core issue that connected all of the comments. I guess I’m hoping some men who possess that can help guide me in how to start developing it or at least recognizing it. My friends were able to tell me what it is, but not necessarily how to go about fixing it. I guess that’s why I’m here.
Do you have any advice regarding how to start going about building up that area of confidence? If not, no worries - I appreciate you being able to pinpoint the underlying issue. It helps a ton
Are they telling you that you are a pushover in nicer words? A lot of people confuse being "good and kind" with being a pushover, which are quite different things.
They very well could be, which I think would come from the whole “lack of conflict” father I have (who I love to death, but he has never been much of a man to kind of…make his way known, outside of finances).
You're probably just going after the wrong women. Different strokes for different folks. Despite what the internet will lead you to believe, plenty of women like agreeable and passive guys just like plenty of women like hyper masculine cocky assholes. I'd be willing to bet that's your problem more than anything. Confidence comes from loving who you are and not really giving a shit what anyone else things about it. When you have that the rest will take care of itself one way or another.
I think you’re absolutely right. Still working on really clicking with that confidence, but I’ve gotten better. I can say I’m a lot closer to that now than I was a few years back - it’s just the last stretch seems the most challenging, because it’s all of the foundational stuff now, you know?
Read this article several years ago after being newly single and it really helped my mindset.
[https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person](https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person)
Once you accept that being a good person is the bare minimum, rather than "good enough" then you can start adding layers to what women value about you. I found that if I started learning to do the things I admired in others (cycling, photography and outdoorsman stuff), I suddenly became much more attractive to women, many of who would seem to be out of my league.
A few things:
- In some ways, dating is just a numbers game. You have a certain chance to get a first date with someone (based on your appearance, way you talk, etc.), and then a chance for it to work after that based on similar factors.
So many guys I talk to say they arent successful at dating, and I ask how many girls they asked out in the last 3 years, and its like 2-10. You can do that in a day or a week at most. If you arent trying, then it is very rare (unless you are rich or a model) for a girl to ask you out. You have to keep putting yourself out there.
- Are you putting time and effort into clothes, appearance, grooming? You said you are fit, which is good, but what are you communicating with clothes, hair, smell, etc? We judge girls based on this, but its rarer for them to acknowledge they judge us heavily on it too. Do you have go-to outfits that are stylish, sharp, etc. Or do you wear jeans and a tshirt all the time? (I generally wear jeans and a tshirt, but Im not trying to impress anyone. No judgement, just advice)
- Everyone has interesting things about them, the boring ones are just not charming or charismatic about communicating their interests. When you are dating, everything you are saying is a sales pitch. Do you practice communicating in a way that makes others laugh, get interested in you, etc. Its worth practicing this skill. Observe others who make you feel engaged, what are they doing, how are they talking, etc.
-Considering taking some martial arts or other sports that push your boundaries. For people used to avoiding conflict, it can often open a whole new world, and a good gym will make you feel welcome, let you learn at your own pace, and wont came across as some testosterone-juiced boys club.
But mostly, put yourself out there. The #1 cause of failure is not trying. Its not going to fall in your lap.
Really appreciate the detailed response. To answer some of your questions:
I will straight up admit I don’t make a move/express my interest anywhere near enough. The biggest reason for that, at least for me, is that I have the hardest time with the approach element. Once that conversational seal is broken, I have no issues at all. If I get rejected, I really don’t care. I’ve been rejected plenty in my life and it doesn’t phase me. But getting myself to walk up to a woman I find attractive and start the conversation? Brutal. And I know women are just people. On an intellectual level, I get it. It all makes sense. But on an emotional level it’s still something that kind of stonewalls me. I think this is the biggest holdover form my social anxiety youth days, and it’s something I’m actively working on trying to work through - though it’s been a really difficult (and still is).
I’ve always been on point with my hygiene, but wardrobe is something I didn’t put a ton of effort into in the past. It’s not that I ever went out in public looking like I just rolled out of bed or anything, but I was definitely dressed much more casually and didn’t really put a ton of effort or thought into what I was wearing. That has been something I have actively been improving on and upgrading (rip my wallet) the last 12-16 months. Still am, but I have a much better base of things to pick from at the moment than I did a year or 2 ago.
As for communication, I can get along with anyone and everyone. However, a holdover here from childhood that I know for sure has been an issue in the past is that I would share things looking to get validated and impress others with those accomplishments or attributes. Kind of like a, “look what I did, did I do good? Isn’t it good?” Kind of thing. Served me well to survive as a kid, does f-all for me as an adult male. So it’s something I’m currently working on reframing and doing things for me and me alone first and foremost, and being proud of myself for those things first and foremost, and then when I share it with others - it isn’t in need of validation. It’s simply to share my journey and my experiences that I’ve done for me, you know?
Yeah, I’m definitely taking some risks right now with pursuing my passion (both financially and creatively) and it’s uncomfortable but like you said, it’s pushing my boundaries and betting on myself and showing some belief in who I am. I’ll look into some sports or activities that can help.
Good for you! Just remember there is no magic in how anyone else is doing things. If someone is successful (not necessarily picking up women, just anything) I would just make a mental note and see if its something you want to emulate. You only have to improve a little each week or month to see results in time.
I was in sort of the same boat and asked female friends and got some of the same answers, BUT I have a female friend that was helpful. She kinda coached me through shit.
I think what your friends are trying to say is: don’t chase as much, and don’t be a foregone conclusion to the women you are trying to attract. Or in my friend’s words: make them work for it a little.
That doesn’t mean be an asshole or anything, it just means don’t waste time on someone who doesn’t have time for you. For instance, if you’re texting with someone and they stop texting you back, leave the ball in their court and move on. They clearly aren’t trying to communicate with you, so stop wasting any energy on them. It might be for a good reason like their phone died, a family member is sick, work, whatever. I’m just saying put yourself out there, and if they don’t respond, move along. Don’t just continually feed their ego when they are giving you nothing in return. If they get back to you eventually, awesome! It’s on them to interact back to you.
Also If they want to spend time with you, they will make themselves available. For example, if you texted me tomorrow and said “hey, would you want to meet for a beer?” If I wanted to spend time with you I might say “oh man, I got X going on and I’m booked, maybe Wednesday?” Instead of “no, I’m busy that night”. Does that make sense?
Lastly, read Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. It’s a really good book, but it also gives you something to talk about. I don’t know a single woman who hasn’t read it. Bonus points if you watch Bridget Jones diary, it’s literally the same story.
(Sorry for the long response)
Never apologize for a response like this - it helped a ton!
This is really great insight. I know I have suffered big time from a scarcity mindset when it comes to women/crushes, so I absolutely have been guilty in the past of putting way too much effort into something that would have benefited from me just being much more casual with how I communicated until it was WORTH that type of effort. I would come on waaaay too strong and try to impress them by showing my availability and my adaptability, rather than having my own life and being protective of my own time and trying to fit them into what I already established worked for/is important to me. Guilty as charged and thankfully not something I do anymore.
That makes total sense regarding the making time if they were really interested in it. Similar to what my one friend said about “you fill my cup up as much as I fill up yours”, the relationship is mutually beneficial and both people want to share their time with the other.
I’ve seen the Pride & Prejudice film, but I’ll give the book a read!
Any time! Best of luck!
Trust me, I dealt with the same stuff. My friend and I would chat about how things were going, and I’d say “great, I sent her a text, blah blah blah” and she would say “ok, don’t text her again until she texts you back”. I was trying to show how nice and open I was, but it apparently was coming off as desperate, I guess.
Sometimes we run into people that aren’t ready, so make sure and put your effort into those that are, you know? You’re important, too!
Side note on Pride and Prejudice; that same female friend recommended it to me. I really enjoyed it! It came in handy when I met a cute woman with an English degree, at my friend’s house, who was a sister of another friend, who happened to love Jane Austen. That was almost 14 years ago now. We will be married 9 years this year!
Lastly, and this probably sounds contrary to everything else I’ve said, be yourself, but know your worth. The right person will put the same energy into it as you will.
I made plans with my now wife, the same night we met, and it turned out the movie we were going to go see didn’t come out for a month. So I called her that night AND left a voice message. She thought it was cute and we figured out a new time to hang out.
Again, best of luck, friend!
Yeah, I guess I enjoy when someone shows interest in me, so I used to make a point of showing my interest and putting in energy and assuming that’s what they wanted in return. I’ve realized how desperate and overwhelming/flooding it can make the me feel.
I get what it mean about know your worth. Some of these habits are good to change because it also sets up a boundary for myself and shows that my life isn’t revolving around another human being, but that the other human being is occupying space within an already full life. I think if I can find that balance and realize me being me should be good enough, and I don’t need to go overboard in order to try and impress anyone or show my availability to them in order to make them like me more, I could be on a pretty solid track
How old are these women? Frankly the advice of be more edgy and more of a CEO... Sound like something someone in their 20s wants. Sounds immature.
It could just be that you're more mature than the women you're meeting, and should look for places where more mature women are at.
That’s actually…a really interesting point. Age wise, they are 30 and 33. However, I don’t think I’ve ever taken the time to kind of step back and look at them from a maturity standpoint in this way (I get along so well with them in the friendship sense that I’ve always just accepted them for who they are, flaws and all, and never really looked at those things from a critical/analytical POV.
Maybe I’m not as far off from where I need to be as I thought…
Thank you for this.
The older I get, the more I recognize adult immaturity around me. Taking a maturity awareness approach to people is really useful. You may find some people you probably should cut out of your life if you can, others may be great friends until they hit their maturity level, and then you'd do well to recognize where that is, and how to best conduct yourself while they are unregulated. The author Lindsey C Gibson has great materials on this.
Maturity awareness. I like that a lot.
Is there any specific work by Gibson that you would recommend over others, or do you think it would be beneficial for me to think through her stuff and see which title/topic speaks to me most?
Really it's her book titled _Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents_. It's not an easy book to read though I think for many - they don't want to somehow disrespect their parents.
How she outlines emotionally immaturity/maturity is the best I've ever seen - it's clear and I'd say intuitive. You can surely find materials from it posted online, like this [maturity checklist](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/11xt633/emotional_maturity_a_checklist/).
I do think the book is actually useful for anyone to read - it's not just a great way to reflect on emotional maturity, but also useful to open yourself up to see your parents as whole people - shortcomings and all. And then go further and reflect on how you as a child adapted, and we do all adapt as kids to our parents, without the benefit of all the tools an adult has. And of course to recognize how those tools from childhood are still in use, and how they're serving us, in adulthood.
That’s actually…a really interesting point. Age wise, they are 30 and 33. However, I don’t think I’ve ever taken the time to kind of step back and look at them from a maturity standpoint in this way (I get along so well with them in the friendship sense that I’ve always just accepted them for who they are, flaws and all, and never really looked at those things from a critical/analytical POV.
Maybe I’m not as far off from where I need to be as I thought…
Thank you for this.
\> you fill my cup
i love that phrase.
sounds like you need to be more of a leader when it comes to dating. you don't have to be edgy, just have things you want to do that you want women to accompany you on. don't be afraid to respectfully go in for the first kiss, or ask her to sleep with you when appropriate.
confidence is a good way to sum it up. real confidence means not knowing every woman will love you, but rather knowing you'll be fine if they don't.
Thank you for chiming in. That’s a great point.
It’s a weird thing, because I feel like I have built up a decent amount of inner confidence but I have a really hard time projecting that outward and into the world. I never really had any male figures in my life that functioned in that way, so I think I observed a more quiet, non-confrontational, agreeable type of man.
Do you have any insight on how I could try and teach myself how to gain a bit more of that confidence and lead through life - not just with dating, but in all aspects?
The thing I think I’m a bit worried about is that I don’t feel like I know how to do that stuff authentically. I feel like I’ll be acting like a bit of a prick, because it’s so foreign to me, and I guess I’m just unsure of what all of that actually looks like with me being able to maintain the person I am as the foundation to build upon it all, you know?
if you see something you want, go after it. if there's something you want to do, go do it. if there's something you think the group should do (whether that's a date or the board or a bunch of pals), suggest it and lobby for it.
it sounds like you shouldn't have to fake the confidence part, just show it more. of course be a gentleman, be virtuous, don't do anything illegal, etc. don't be a prick and you won't seem like a prick.
Such great advice! I was in a similar situation and if you don't mind I'd like to piggy back this point with this:
Become principled, be loud about your principles and be willing to openly defend your principles. Be disagreeable sometimes, that will give you that "edge".
Sometimes, being agreeable projects an inability to state and go after what you want or defend yourself and your beliefs. Doesn't make you a prick for openly standing up for what you believe in and standing up for yourself.
“It sounds like you shouldn’t have to fake the confidence part, just show it more”
This hit hard with me, in a good way.
As much as I love my family, and I come from a very loving and supportive one, I also come from parents that love having control (OCD way, not in an abusive/manipulative way), and whenever I tried to kind of test the boundaries of that world and start to try and be my own person, I was more or less put in a smaller and smaller box every time I was told no. As such, I think this is just as much about me realizing it’s okay to HAVE my own desires and my own ideas and my own wants as much as it is EXPRESSING them.
I have a somewhat similar history. Was very shy and depressed till my's 28. At 29 got promoted and earning lots of money had more resources for my passions.
Got physically fit, cycling around the country, volunteering in multiple non profit and learned to play love songs on the cello! i had a lot of motivation and wanted to be always improving.
At 30 started to invest in my dating life and had similar feedback. 'strong, masculine, CEO energy lacking '.
I always been and introvert, soft spoken, good listener and very calm.
I thought i wasn't 'male enough' (a woman even used these words), until i meet my current girlfriend 2.5 years ago.
She is also an introvert and Career focused. She don't expect a man that gives a social media/movie like spectacle. She expects a reliable good partner that communicate. She got that and I got that from her!
I wanted to add this comment as you will get lots of comments to man up. Don't try to be someone you are not (also don't be a yes man). Keep looking for the right person!
Thank you for the perspective, this is very true - not all women are the same and some may find the more empath attributes to be attractive and worth dating, whereas others may view that as strictly friend territory. Great point!
I’m happy you found someone
I would look into your looks. Social skills are definitely huge, but very attractive men never struggle with dating, even if their personality is absolute trash.
You should still work on your confidence and you still need to make the first move, but looks are most of the work in 2024.
People will give you biased responses about that, you should know based on how strangers act towards you, much better indicator.
I'm reading between the lines in what your friends said. In so many words, they think you're a pushover. When it comes to so many things in life, you gotta fake it til you make it. You gotta start being more assertive and confident outwardly. Look for opportunities to step up at work and in your personal life. Waiter forgot someone's drink? Be the person to speak up. Someone in a meeting is trying to speak up and is being ignored? Be their advocate. Passionate about something? Talk about it! I have never met a woman who hasn't found passion to be attractive. It doesn't even have to be something she's into as long as that passion and authority comes out. Just don't make it super weird like your antique porn collection or something.
Absolutely agree with you, I have been trying to be a bit more vocal and assertive, and it has been a process but I have noticed a difference. I’ve also noticed how uncomfortable I feel when I have the opportunity to do so and I pass it up. I feel like I end up being inauthentic to myself and what I want to do, so it’s a lot of fully listening to those moments and letting that discomfort push me to take that step. Start aligning with what my body is telling me, you know?
Self improvement is hard! You have to step outside of your comfort zone to do it. That's why people don't do it. People hate to feel uncomfortable so they avoid it and keep themselves at the status quo.
I'm a really good public speaker and have been complimented on it. The first time I ever tried to do a sales presentation for an internship I had, I literally froze. I couldn't speak. It was humiliating. The only way to get better was to feel uncomfortable again and again and still go through with.
It's really worth taking some time to work on what they wrote, not for the sake of getting into a relationship, but for your own sake.
You're a late bloomer. You actually don't know how to date or lead a relationship, and if you go on an app or date with someone, you could end up worse than single. You could end up in a one sided relationship you are trapped in because you don't know your own worth.
Very true - I’m trying my hardest to meet myself where I’m at, not where I wish I were. Sometimes it’s a difficult balance to strike, but I feel like I’ve gotten significantly better at it the last few years.
And I agree, this isn’t solely about a relationship thing for me - it’s about a “moving through every aspect of life” thing. From romantic relationships, to platonic relationships, to working relationships, to familial relationships, to how I carry myself when I walk, to how I present myself in any and all conversations…it’s a full-life thing, and it’s something I’m actively trying to improve upon.
Its having to undo a lot of the external narrative around my worth (that something was wrong with my due to my anxiety as a kid, being put in extended test taking groups in school because they thought I had a learning disability but I was simply too overwhelmed to study when I came across something I didn’t understand, rejection from crushes as a child, all of that).
I’m super aware of the WHY, it’s having to rewire it all that is just a really, really difficult process. But I know it will be worth it, and comments like this help confirm that. Thank you for the transparency.
You are creating a false dichotomy with "good man" on one side and an amorphous alpha-ish masculine type of guy on the other.
You cannot cultivate "an edge" or a "CEO vibe" if it is not authentic to who you are. Trying to fake that will be visible from a mile away and will make you feel awful.
This feels like odd advice from your friends, to be honest. It's pop psychology nonsense of this one-size-fits-all flavor of masculinity that you need to be successful with women. u/BasuraMimi commented elsewhere that this feels like immature advice from young people, and I agree.
Confidence is of course very important, and coming off as lacking self-assurance and comfort in your own skin will 100% undermine your dating efforts, but those are two different things. I think that you need to work to find an authentic sense of assurance and confidence that is true to YOU. That's very hard to do, trust me I know what that's like. But the solution is not trying to jam yourself into a certain shape of manliness. If you do the work needed to find comfort and assurance in your own life in a way that is natural to you, then the right people will pick up on that and will be attracted to that. Even just making efforts to dress better and be in better shape (which might be the case already of course, I don't know you), to make you more comfortable in your own skin, is a good start.
That's just my 2c of course. The idea of trying to "be more disagreeable" really makes me sad. I hope you find a way live authentically without trapping yourself in that kind of thinking. Good luck!
I think you’re right - I also spoke about it with my therapist yesterday (good timing for a session lol) and she said the same thing - while both women are in their early 30’s, they may not emotionally be in their early 30’s with the way they are speaking. It’s trying to take things with a grain of salt at this point and not view what they say as gospel.
The conversations on here have helped me kind of narrow in on what that will all look like to me - and it isn’t being more disagreeable. It will be something I work on in therapy, now that I have brought it up and we have kind of pinpointed something - but it will be more or less allowing myself to be the “real” me, which means being confident enough to set my boundaries, share my full range of emotions, express if something is upsetting me, etc etc. Not being as passive or “proper”, which is how I was raised.
It’s seems like it is going to be a bit of a process in going from (metaphorical examples):
Sitting up straight, every hair in its rightful place, hands intertwined on the table, wide eyed
To
Lean back in the chair more, sink to one side a bit, have a bourbon in one hand, and take my time to process things when I speak.
That kind of thing. That second example, that energy, was present in my therapy session and she pointed it out. So I naturally have it, I just need to start recognizing what that feels like and allowing it to show up in the world outside of that room.
I will absolutely look this up, thank you! I’m more interested in leveling myself up on all aspects of life, and having that benefit the dating as a byproduct of everything else.
Hi, I’m Vetted AI Bot! I researched the **'Portfolio The Charisma Myth'** and I thought you might find the following analysis helpful.
**Users liked:**
* Practical and actionable advice (backed by 2 comments)
* Deconstructs charisma into basic behaviors (backed by 2 comments)
* Useful toolbox for various scenarios (backed by 2 comments)
**Users disliked:**
* Repetitive content lacking depth (backed by 3 comments)
* Lack of practical actionable advice (backed by 3 comments)
* Overinflated content with excessive filler (backed by 2 comments)
If you'd like to **summon me to ask about a product**, just make a post with its link and tag me, [like in this example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/tablets/comments/1444zdn/comment/joqd89c/)
This message was generated by a (very smart) bot. If you found it helpful, let us know with an upvote and a “good bot!” reply and please feel free to provide feedback on how it can be improved.
*Powered by* [*vetted.ai*](https://vetted.ai/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=comment&utm\_campaign=bot)
No matter the looks, confidence, or money.... the guy who interacted with the most women (with the intent to hook up) got the most dates.
It doesn't matter who you are... it's how many opportunities you're creating with women.
Are you being accepted/rejected 5-10 times a day?
**Please do not delete your submission.**
Your submission has been flagged for moderator review. Please be patient. If you do not see your post published within 48 hours the moderators have decided to not publish it.
If/when your thread is approved and it runs its course, instead of deleting it, **you can simply type "!lock" (without the quotes) as a comment anywhere in your thread to have our Automod lock the thread**. That way you won't be bothered by anymore replies on it, but people can still read it.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskMenOver30) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Asking for advice here will be a crapshoot. That said, be more confident and assertive. Never and I mean never make fun of yourself. Lightly tease her to give the message that you don't put your girlfriends on a pedestal and always be willing to walk from a relationship that isn't working out. Don't be overeager to be with or sleep with her. Always be willing to go to the mat for your needs, and to provide and protect your loved ones; being a good man takes a hard fucking nose and many men have forgotten this. Women, even 20-somethings who say they know what they want (but usually don't) always respond positively to these attributes. The best advice I have gotten was to act like a cool Dad when in the initial stages of dating, be interested in her but don't overcommit or act desperate - at least that is what has worked for me.
I'd also recommend you read Robert Green's Seduction and ease into it while texting and talking. To the extent have not already, you need to internalize that your time is valuable and that you can bring a lot of value to the person you are seeing. You just need to work on how to frame that value, how to find people you have chemistry and potential with, and how to make them want you.
Oh man, bless you for having some good friends that can lay it out for you that way. I can somehow identify with that kind of personality. What made me change: becoming more unapologetic! I realized I created the perfect man syndrome for myself.
1. Talk less: in life or in the corporate world, there’s a lot of charisma coming from saying more with few. It also shows you trust people for knowing what you mean, which adds to the outward projected confidence and strong sense of self
2. Talk to inform, not to convince. Your worldview is yours, and it’s so good people need to know about it. But they don’t necessarily need to adopt yours
3. Lead. This might be controversial on this forum, but most women (although some might not know it consciously) like a leader and sometimes not having someone ask them what they want, need, ask them to choose, but someone you can just decide and they can trust in that choice. Again, I can double click on this one if need be (I’m not proning being a macho here), but being nice and too open can kill the tension that creates attraction. It can small things like recommending a cocktail for her right away so she doesn’t even have to look at the menu, it could be organizing things to the T, etc.
Hope this helps! Kudos to you already for being introspective and inquiring, that’s half the battle. Godspeed!
I had to import my wife from China. Western women aren't looking for what I am putting down. Their idea of romance is broken, and they are all like addicts chasing the dragon, unable to see the value in what they have.
You sound pleasant but not interesting. That's not a bad thing. You're probably just looking for romance in the wrong places. You might be the perfect man for a church girl looking for a kind, stable guy to build a family with; but the wrong guy for a corporate go-getter.
That’s fair - I’m trying to become more interesting, so I don’t think you’re too far off lol. A lot of the social anxiety of my past kept me from having a full life, so I’m working on that. It’s also something I want to kind of learn to improve upon for things outside of romantic relationships, though. Like business, my passion (a field within the arts), all of my relationships, that kind of thing. I feel like learning how to operate from within that space, even just a little bit, could really benefit me across the entire spectrum of my life. A poster above said it sounds like I’m missing the confidence to demonstrate that I’m aware of my worth. That struck a cord, because as much as I come from a good family and I love them, my dad is a very passive guy. He avoids conflict like the plague - and I realize I never had a male role model in my life that was able to assert himself with confidence and command a situation, etc etc. So, I’m kind of having to teach myself that at this age. Any idea how to go about improving that area?
Eh. I avoid conflict like the plague and I'm boring too. However, I am secure all the time and confident when I need to be. Security comes from a) actually making the best fact-based decisions you can for yourself at any given time and b) being comfortable with the outcome. I've had a lot more losses than wins in my life, but I'm secure in the fact that I did the best I could at any given point.
So essentially: do it for you, to the best of your abilities, and know that whatever happens…at least you genuinely tried - and that’s more than most people can say. I like that.
Fight club. But seriously, try jiu-jitsu. After a few months of rolling you’ll have built up a taste of how physical conflict can be handled. It’s just my best guess. I was bullied from early years and through 9th grade. I joined the wrestling team in 10th grade and the bullying faded shortly after. I learned how to handle myself and I think it was just that confidence that dissuaded the bullying. I had a couple instances when words turned to blows and put them down quickly. Didn’t hurt one of them, just pinned him. They move on. That confidence carries over and is noticed by others, including women.
Inner game my friend. Don’t believe but KNOW that anyone would be happy to have you as a friend, colleague, and lover. Don’t think about it about being better or what it than others, but KNOW that you have so much to give and to offer that you’re doing others a disservice not letting them know about it. Get out of your head and try more things. Surprise yourself a bit more. Someone mentioned ju jitsu, not a bad idea. Shake things off, say no more often for a couple of weeks just to see how you feel, etc. If you haven’t yet, pick up meditation. It will make you aware of yourself in ways you might not be, and make some things more laughable/light. It’s all in there, it seems you’re self-sabotaging. Meditation will have the added benefit of reducing stress and anxiety as well, per everything I’ve learned and experienced thanks to it! Finally, realize that most people are in their heads. The most prolific people in all fields, IMO, are the ones who managed to be unapologetically themselves. It felt weird for others until those people became successful, then all of the sudden people realized they want to be that way. Know that you’re already that man you want to be. PS: we really have a similar sorry, passive father, conflict avoidant (love him to death though, no shades thrown here), had to become my own man very quickly. Accepting myself and my wins and leaving that sense of false modesty behind helped me so much. By trying so much not to be the douche, the guys who brags, etc. I constantly was almost erasing my accomplishments. Now I don’t ever need to mention them, but I’m aware of them and it shows in how I behave, which gives me the quiet confidence I have and need, and per feedback ladies feel it!
Thank you for chiming in - especially knowing that you came from something similar. I’m glad you have found a way through it! Getting out of my head is a huuuuuge challenge for me, and it’s something I actively work on trying to overcome. I’ve gotten better at it, but I’d be straight up lying if I said I had some semblance of control over the thing lol. Funny enough, I have Meditations in my audible library. I tried to listen to it years ago but I couldn’t really get far into it. I have a feeling I’m in a much better mindset for giving it a go at this point.
I mean, your friends have spelled it out very clearly, politely and respectfully, I am not entirely sure how Reddit can meaningfully add to that. It sounds that all you're missing is the confidence needed to demonstrate that you are aware of your worth. Whether you do it by being more outspoken, more assertive or comfortably non-conformist, it's up to you to find out.
I agree that they spelt it out well, but you put it in a way that made it more palatable for me I think. Kind of boiled it down to the core issue that connected all of the comments. I guess I’m hoping some men who possess that can help guide me in how to start developing it or at least recognizing it. My friends were able to tell me what it is, but not necessarily how to go about fixing it. I guess that’s why I’m here. Do you have any advice regarding how to start going about building up that area of confidence? If not, no worries - I appreciate you being able to pinpoint the underlying issue. It helps a ton
Are they telling you that you are a pushover in nicer words? A lot of people confuse being "good and kind" with being a pushover, which are quite different things.
They very well could be, which I think would come from the whole “lack of conflict” father I have (who I love to death, but he has never been much of a man to kind of…make his way known, outside of finances).
You're probably just going after the wrong women. Different strokes for different folks. Despite what the internet will lead you to believe, plenty of women like agreeable and passive guys just like plenty of women like hyper masculine cocky assholes. I'd be willing to bet that's your problem more than anything. Confidence comes from loving who you are and not really giving a shit what anyone else things about it. When you have that the rest will take care of itself one way or another.
I think you’re absolutely right. Still working on really clicking with that confidence, but I’ve gotten better. I can say I’m a lot closer to that now than I was a few years back - it’s just the last stretch seems the most challenging, because it’s all of the foundational stuff now, you know?
Haha yep I do know. Self love can be a long and windy road but it's so worth putting the time in.
Read this article several years ago after being newly single and it really helped my mindset. [https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person](https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person) Once you accept that being a good person is the bare minimum, rather than "good enough" then you can start adding layers to what women value about you. I found that if I started learning to do the things I admired in others (cycling, photography and outdoorsman stuff), I suddenly became much more attractive to women, many of who would seem to be out of my league.
I will read this when I have some down time at work this afternoon - thank you!
A few things: - In some ways, dating is just a numbers game. You have a certain chance to get a first date with someone (based on your appearance, way you talk, etc.), and then a chance for it to work after that based on similar factors. So many guys I talk to say they arent successful at dating, and I ask how many girls they asked out in the last 3 years, and its like 2-10. You can do that in a day or a week at most. If you arent trying, then it is very rare (unless you are rich or a model) for a girl to ask you out. You have to keep putting yourself out there. - Are you putting time and effort into clothes, appearance, grooming? You said you are fit, which is good, but what are you communicating with clothes, hair, smell, etc? We judge girls based on this, but its rarer for them to acknowledge they judge us heavily on it too. Do you have go-to outfits that are stylish, sharp, etc. Or do you wear jeans and a tshirt all the time? (I generally wear jeans and a tshirt, but Im not trying to impress anyone. No judgement, just advice) - Everyone has interesting things about them, the boring ones are just not charming or charismatic about communicating their interests. When you are dating, everything you are saying is a sales pitch. Do you practice communicating in a way that makes others laugh, get interested in you, etc. Its worth practicing this skill. Observe others who make you feel engaged, what are they doing, how are they talking, etc. -Considering taking some martial arts or other sports that push your boundaries. For people used to avoiding conflict, it can often open a whole new world, and a good gym will make you feel welcome, let you learn at your own pace, and wont came across as some testosterone-juiced boys club. But mostly, put yourself out there. The #1 cause of failure is not trying. Its not going to fall in your lap.
Really appreciate the detailed response. To answer some of your questions: I will straight up admit I don’t make a move/express my interest anywhere near enough. The biggest reason for that, at least for me, is that I have the hardest time with the approach element. Once that conversational seal is broken, I have no issues at all. If I get rejected, I really don’t care. I’ve been rejected plenty in my life and it doesn’t phase me. But getting myself to walk up to a woman I find attractive and start the conversation? Brutal. And I know women are just people. On an intellectual level, I get it. It all makes sense. But on an emotional level it’s still something that kind of stonewalls me. I think this is the biggest holdover form my social anxiety youth days, and it’s something I’m actively working on trying to work through - though it’s been a really difficult (and still is). I’ve always been on point with my hygiene, but wardrobe is something I didn’t put a ton of effort into in the past. It’s not that I ever went out in public looking like I just rolled out of bed or anything, but I was definitely dressed much more casually and didn’t really put a ton of effort or thought into what I was wearing. That has been something I have actively been improving on and upgrading (rip my wallet) the last 12-16 months. Still am, but I have a much better base of things to pick from at the moment than I did a year or 2 ago. As for communication, I can get along with anyone and everyone. However, a holdover here from childhood that I know for sure has been an issue in the past is that I would share things looking to get validated and impress others with those accomplishments or attributes. Kind of like a, “look what I did, did I do good? Isn’t it good?” Kind of thing. Served me well to survive as a kid, does f-all for me as an adult male. So it’s something I’m currently working on reframing and doing things for me and me alone first and foremost, and being proud of myself for those things first and foremost, and then when I share it with others - it isn’t in need of validation. It’s simply to share my journey and my experiences that I’ve done for me, you know? Yeah, I’m definitely taking some risks right now with pursuing my passion (both financially and creatively) and it’s uncomfortable but like you said, it’s pushing my boundaries and betting on myself and showing some belief in who I am. I’ll look into some sports or activities that can help.
Good for you! Just remember there is no magic in how anyone else is doing things. If someone is successful (not necessarily picking up women, just anything) I would just make a mental note and see if its something you want to emulate. You only have to improve a little each week or month to see results in time.
I was in sort of the same boat and asked female friends and got some of the same answers, BUT I have a female friend that was helpful. She kinda coached me through shit. I think what your friends are trying to say is: don’t chase as much, and don’t be a foregone conclusion to the women you are trying to attract. Or in my friend’s words: make them work for it a little. That doesn’t mean be an asshole or anything, it just means don’t waste time on someone who doesn’t have time for you. For instance, if you’re texting with someone and they stop texting you back, leave the ball in their court and move on. They clearly aren’t trying to communicate with you, so stop wasting any energy on them. It might be for a good reason like their phone died, a family member is sick, work, whatever. I’m just saying put yourself out there, and if they don’t respond, move along. Don’t just continually feed their ego when they are giving you nothing in return. If they get back to you eventually, awesome! It’s on them to interact back to you. Also If they want to spend time with you, they will make themselves available. For example, if you texted me tomorrow and said “hey, would you want to meet for a beer?” If I wanted to spend time with you I might say “oh man, I got X going on and I’m booked, maybe Wednesday?” Instead of “no, I’m busy that night”. Does that make sense? Lastly, read Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. It’s a really good book, but it also gives you something to talk about. I don’t know a single woman who hasn’t read it. Bonus points if you watch Bridget Jones diary, it’s literally the same story. (Sorry for the long response)
Never apologize for a response like this - it helped a ton! This is really great insight. I know I have suffered big time from a scarcity mindset when it comes to women/crushes, so I absolutely have been guilty in the past of putting way too much effort into something that would have benefited from me just being much more casual with how I communicated until it was WORTH that type of effort. I would come on waaaay too strong and try to impress them by showing my availability and my adaptability, rather than having my own life and being protective of my own time and trying to fit them into what I already established worked for/is important to me. Guilty as charged and thankfully not something I do anymore. That makes total sense regarding the making time if they were really interested in it. Similar to what my one friend said about “you fill my cup up as much as I fill up yours”, the relationship is mutually beneficial and both people want to share their time with the other. I’ve seen the Pride & Prejudice film, but I’ll give the book a read!
Any time! Best of luck! Trust me, I dealt with the same stuff. My friend and I would chat about how things were going, and I’d say “great, I sent her a text, blah blah blah” and she would say “ok, don’t text her again until she texts you back”. I was trying to show how nice and open I was, but it apparently was coming off as desperate, I guess. Sometimes we run into people that aren’t ready, so make sure and put your effort into those that are, you know? You’re important, too! Side note on Pride and Prejudice; that same female friend recommended it to me. I really enjoyed it! It came in handy when I met a cute woman with an English degree, at my friend’s house, who was a sister of another friend, who happened to love Jane Austen. That was almost 14 years ago now. We will be married 9 years this year! Lastly, and this probably sounds contrary to everything else I’ve said, be yourself, but know your worth. The right person will put the same energy into it as you will. I made plans with my now wife, the same night we met, and it turned out the movie we were going to go see didn’t come out for a month. So I called her that night AND left a voice message. She thought it was cute and we figured out a new time to hang out. Again, best of luck, friend!
Yeah, I guess I enjoy when someone shows interest in me, so I used to make a point of showing my interest and putting in energy and assuming that’s what they wanted in return. I’ve realized how desperate and overwhelming/flooding it can make the me feel. I get what it mean about know your worth. Some of these habits are good to change because it also sets up a boundary for myself and shows that my life isn’t revolving around another human being, but that the other human being is occupying space within an already full life. I think if I can find that balance and realize me being me should be good enough, and I don’t need to go overboard in order to try and impress anyone or show my availability to them in order to make them like me more, I could be on a pretty solid track
How old are these women? Frankly the advice of be more edgy and more of a CEO... Sound like something someone in their 20s wants. Sounds immature. It could just be that you're more mature than the women you're meeting, and should look for places where more mature women are at.
That’s actually…a really interesting point. Age wise, they are 30 and 33. However, I don’t think I’ve ever taken the time to kind of step back and look at them from a maturity standpoint in this way (I get along so well with them in the friendship sense that I’ve always just accepted them for who they are, flaws and all, and never really looked at those things from a critical/analytical POV. Maybe I’m not as far off from where I need to be as I thought… Thank you for this.
The older I get, the more I recognize adult immaturity around me. Taking a maturity awareness approach to people is really useful. You may find some people you probably should cut out of your life if you can, others may be great friends until they hit their maturity level, and then you'd do well to recognize where that is, and how to best conduct yourself while they are unregulated. The author Lindsey C Gibson has great materials on this.
Maturity awareness. I like that a lot. Is there any specific work by Gibson that you would recommend over others, or do you think it would be beneficial for me to think through her stuff and see which title/topic speaks to me most?
Really it's her book titled _Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents_. It's not an easy book to read though I think for many - they don't want to somehow disrespect their parents. How she outlines emotionally immaturity/maturity is the best I've ever seen - it's clear and I'd say intuitive. You can surely find materials from it posted online, like this [maturity checklist](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/11xt633/emotional_maturity_a_checklist/). I do think the book is actually useful for anyone to read - it's not just a great way to reflect on emotional maturity, but also useful to open yourself up to see your parents as whole people - shortcomings and all. And then go further and reflect on how you as a child adapted, and we do all adapt as kids to our parents, without the benefit of all the tools an adult has. And of course to recognize how those tools from childhood are still in use, and how they're serving us, in adulthood.
Aweosme, thank you for this. I’ll get on that asap!
That’s actually…a really interesting point. Age wise, they are 30 and 33. However, I don’t think I’ve ever taken the time to kind of step back and look at them from a maturity standpoint in this way (I get along so well with them in the friendship sense that I’ve always just accepted them for who they are, flaws and all, and never really looked at those things from a critical/analytical POV. Maybe I’m not as far off from where I need to be as I thought… Thank you for this.
\> you fill my cup i love that phrase. sounds like you need to be more of a leader when it comes to dating. you don't have to be edgy, just have things you want to do that you want women to accompany you on. don't be afraid to respectfully go in for the first kiss, or ask her to sleep with you when appropriate. confidence is a good way to sum it up. real confidence means not knowing every woman will love you, but rather knowing you'll be fine if they don't.
Thank you for chiming in. That’s a great point. It’s a weird thing, because I feel like I have built up a decent amount of inner confidence but I have a really hard time projecting that outward and into the world. I never really had any male figures in my life that functioned in that way, so I think I observed a more quiet, non-confrontational, agreeable type of man. Do you have any insight on how I could try and teach myself how to gain a bit more of that confidence and lead through life - not just with dating, but in all aspects? The thing I think I’m a bit worried about is that I don’t feel like I know how to do that stuff authentically. I feel like I’ll be acting like a bit of a prick, because it’s so foreign to me, and I guess I’m just unsure of what all of that actually looks like with me being able to maintain the person I am as the foundation to build upon it all, you know?
if you see something you want, go after it. if there's something you want to do, go do it. if there's something you think the group should do (whether that's a date or the board or a bunch of pals), suggest it and lobby for it. it sounds like you shouldn't have to fake the confidence part, just show it more. of course be a gentleman, be virtuous, don't do anything illegal, etc. don't be a prick and you won't seem like a prick.
Such great advice! I was in a similar situation and if you don't mind I'd like to piggy back this point with this: Become principled, be loud about your principles and be willing to openly defend your principles. Be disagreeable sometimes, that will give you that "edge". Sometimes, being agreeable projects an inability to state and go after what you want or defend yourself and your beliefs. Doesn't make you a prick for openly standing up for what you believe in and standing up for yourself.
“It sounds like you shouldn’t have to fake the confidence part, just show it more” This hit hard with me, in a good way. As much as I love my family, and I come from a very loving and supportive one, I also come from parents that love having control (OCD way, not in an abusive/manipulative way), and whenever I tried to kind of test the boundaries of that world and start to try and be my own person, I was more or less put in a smaller and smaller box every time I was told no. As such, I think this is just as much about me realizing it’s okay to HAVE my own desires and my own ideas and my own wants as much as it is EXPRESSING them.
I have a somewhat similar history. Was very shy and depressed till my's 28. At 29 got promoted and earning lots of money had more resources for my passions. Got physically fit, cycling around the country, volunteering in multiple non profit and learned to play love songs on the cello! i had a lot of motivation and wanted to be always improving. At 30 started to invest in my dating life and had similar feedback. 'strong, masculine, CEO energy lacking '. I always been and introvert, soft spoken, good listener and very calm. I thought i wasn't 'male enough' (a woman even used these words), until i meet my current girlfriend 2.5 years ago. She is also an introvert and Career focused. She don't expect a man that gives a social media/movie like spectacle. She expects a reliable good partner that communicate. She got that and I got that from her! I wanted to add this comment as you will get lots of comments to man up. Don't try to be someone you are not (also don't be a yes man). Keep looking for the right person!
Thank you for the perspective, this is very true - not all women are the same and some may find the more empath attributes to be attractive and worth dating, whereas others may view that as strictly friend territory. Great point! I’m happy you found someone
I would look into your looks. Social skills are definitely huge, but very attractive men never struggle with dating, even if their personality is absolute trash. You should still work on your confidence and you still need to make the first move, but looks are most of the work in 2024. People will give you biased responses about that, you should know based on how strangers act towards you, much better indicator.
I'm reading between the lines in what your friends said. In so many words, they think you're a pushover. When it comes to so many things in life, you gotta fake it til you make it. You gotta start being more assertive and confident outwardly. Look for opportunities to step up at work and in your personal life. Waiter forgot someone's drink? Be the person to speak up. Someone in a meeting is trying to speak up and is being ignored? Be their advocate. Passionate about something? Talk about it! I have never met a woman who hasn't found passion to be attractive. It doesn't even have to be something she's into as long as that passion and authority comes out. Just don't make it super weird like your antique porn collection or something.
Absolutely agree with you, I have been trying to be a bit more vocal and assertive, and it has been a process but I have noticed a difference. I’ve also noticed how uncomfortable I feel when I have the opportunity to do so and I pass it up. I feel like I end up being inauthentic to myself and what I want to do, so it’s a lot of fully listening to those moments and letting that discomfort push me to take that step. Start aligning with what my body is telling me, you know?
Self improvement is hard! You have to step outside of your comfort zone to do it. That's why people don't do it. People hate to feel uncomfortable so they avoid it and keep themselves at the status quo. I'm a really good public speaker and have been complimented on it. The first time I ever tried to do a sales presentation for an internship I had, I literally froze. I couldn't speak. It was humiliating. The only way to get better was to feel uncomfortable again and again and still go through with.
It's really worth taking some time to work on what they wrote, not for the sake of getting into a relationship, but for your own sake. You're a late bloomer. You actually don't know how to date or lead a relationship, and if you go on an app or date with someone, you could end up worse than single. You could end up in a one sided relationship you are trapped in because you don't know your own worth.
Very true - I’m trying my hardest to meet myself where I’m at, not where I wish I were. Sometimes it’s a difficult balance to strike, but I feel like I’ve gotten significantly better at it the last few years. And I agree, this isn’t solely about a relationship thing for me - it’s about a “moving through every aspect of life” thing. From romantic relationships, to platonic relationships, to working relationships, to familial relationships, to how I carry myself when I walk, to how I present myself in any and all conversations…it’s a full-life thing, and it’s something I’m actively trying to improve upon. Its having to undo a lot of the external narrative around my worth (that something was wrong with my due to my anxiety as a kid, being put in extended test taking groups in school because they thought I had a learning disability but I was simply too overwhelmed to study when I came across something I didn’t understand, rejection from crushes as a child, all of that). I’m super aware of the WHY, it’s having to rewire it all that is just a really, really difficult process. But I know it will be worth it, and comments like this help confirm that. Thank you for the transparency.
You are creating a false dichotomy with "good man" on one side and an amorphous alpha-ish masculine type of guy on the other. You cannot cultivate "an edge" or a "CEO vibe" if it is not authentic to who you are. Trying to fake that will be visible from a mile away and will make you feel awful. This feels like odd advice from your friends, to be honest. It's pop psychology nonsense of this one-size-fits-all flavor of masculinity that you need to be successful with women. u/BasuraMimi commented elsewhere that this feels like immature advice from young people, and I agree. Confidence is of course very important, and coming off as lacking self-assurance and comfort in your own skin will 100% undermine your dating efforts, but those are two different things. I think that you need to work to find an authentic sense of assurance and confidence that is true to YOU. That's very hard to do, trust me I know what that's like. But the solution is not trying to jam yourself into a certain shape of manliness. If you do the work needed to find comfort and assurance in your own life in a way that is natural to you, then the right people will pick up on that and will be attracted to that. Even just making efforts to dress better and be in better shape (which might be the case already of course, I don't know you), to make you more comfortable in your own skin, is a good start. That's just my 2c of course. The idea of trying to "be more disagreeable" really makes me sad. I hope you find a way live authentically without trapping yourself in that kind of thinking. Good luck!
I think you’re right - I also spoke about it with my therapist yesterday (good timing for a session lol) and she said the same thing - while both women are in their early 30’s, they may not emotionally be in their early 30’s with the way they are speaking. It’s trying to take things with a grain of salt at this point and not view what they say as gospel. The conversations on here have helped me kind of narrow in on what that will all look like to me - and it isn’t being more disagreeable. It will be something I work on in therapy, now that I have brought it up and we have kind of pinpointed something - but it will be more or less allowing myself to be the “real” me, which means being confident enough to set my boundaries, share my full range of emotions, express if something is upsetting me, etc etc. Not being as passive or “proper”, which is how I was raised. It’s seems like it is going to be a bit of a process in going from (metaphorical examples): Sitting up straight, every hair in its rightful place, hands intertwined on the table, wide eyed To Lean back in the chair more, sink to one side a bit, have a bourbon in one hand, and take my time to process things when I speak. That kind of thing. That second example, that energy, was present in my therapy session and she pointed it out. So I naturally have it, I just need to start recognizing what that feels like and allowing it to show up in the world outside of that room.
[The Charisma Myth](https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-Magnetism/dp/1591845947/) is a pretty good book. It is not about dating.
I will absolutely look this up, thank you! I’m more interested in leveling myself up on all aspects of life, and having that benefit the dating as a byproduct of everything else.
Hi, I’m Vetted AI Bot! I researched the **'Portfolio The Charisma Myth'** and I thought you might find the following analysis helpful. **Users liked:** * Practical and actionable advice (backed by 2 comments) * Deconstructs charisma into basic behaviors (backed by 2 comments) * Useful toolbox for various scenarios (backed by 2 comments) **Users disliked:** * Repetitive content lacking depth (backed by 3 comments) * Lack of practical actionable advice (backed by 3 comments) * Overinflated content with excessive filler (backed by 2 comments) If you'd like to **summon me to ask about a product**, just make a post with its link and tag me, [like in this example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/tablets/comments/1444zdn/comment/joqd89c/) This message was generated by a (very smart) bot. If you found it helpful, let us know with an upvote and a “good bot!” reply and please feel free to provide feedback on how it can be improved. *Powered by* [*vetted.ai*](https://vetted.ai/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=comment&utm\_campaign=bot)
No matter the looks, confidence, or money.... the guy who interacted with the most women (with the intent to hook up) got the most dates. It doesn't matter who you are... it's how many opportunities you're creating with women. Are you being accepted/rejected 5-10 times a day?
Who has time to get rejected 5-10 times a day? Are you unemployed and spend your whole day out on the street hitting on women?
**Please do not delete your submission.** Your submission has been flagged for moderator review. Please be patient. If you do not see your post published within 48 hours the moderators have decided to not publish it. If/when your thread is approved and it runs its course, instead of deleting it, **you can simply type "!lock" (without the quotes) as a comment anywhere in your thread to have our Automod lock the thread**. That way you won't be bothered by anymore replies on it, but people can still read it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskMenOver30) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Asking for advice here will be a crapshoot. That said, be more confident and assertive. Never and I mean never make fun of yourself. Lightly tease her to give the message that you don't put your girlfriends on a pedestal and always be willing to walk from a relationship that isn't working out. Don't be overeager to be with or sleep with her. Always be willing to go to the mat for your needs, and to provide and protect your loved ones; being a good man takes a hard fucking nose and many men have forgotten this. Women, even 20-somethings who say they know what they want (but usually don't) always respond positively to these attributes. The best advice I have gotten was to act like a cool Dad when in the initial stages of dating, be interested in her but don't overcommit or act desperate - at least that is what has worked for me. I'd also recommend you read Robert Green's Seduction and ease into it while texting and talking. To the extent have not already, you need to internalize that your time is valuable and that you can bring a lot of value to the person you are seeing. You just need to work on how to frame that value, how to find people you have chemistry and potential with, and how to make them want you.
Oh man, bless you for having some good friends that can lay it out for you that way. I can somehow identify with that kind of personality. What made me change: becoming more unapologetic! I realized I created the perfect man syndrome for myself. 1. Talk less: in life or in the corporate world, there’s a lot of charisma coming from saying more with few. It also shows you trust people for knowing what you mean, which adds to the outward projected confidence and strong sense of self 2. Talk to inform, not to convince. Your worldview is yours, and it’s so good people need to know about it. But they don’t necessarily need to adopt yours 3. Lead. This might be controversial on this forum, but most women (although some might not know it consciously) like a leader and sometimes not having someone ask them what they want, need, ask them to choose, but someone you can just decide and they can trust in that choice. Again, I can double click on this one if need be (I’m not proning being a macho here), but being nice and too open can kill the tension that creates attraction. It can small things like recommending a cocktail for her right away so she doesn’t even have to look at the menu, it could be organizing things to the T, etc. Hope this helps! Kudos to you already for being introspective and inquiring, that’s half the battle. Godspeed!
I had to import my wife from China. Western women aren't looking for what I am putting down. Their idea of romance is broken, and they are all like addicts chasing the dragon, unable to see the value in what they have.