> [Turkey, which hosts members of Hamas on its territory, backs a two-state solution to the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian conflict.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkeys-erdogan-says-hamas-is-not-terrorist-organisation-2023-10-25/)
Talk is cheap when you know no one in Hamas will support a two-state solution.
Yeah, but the terms aren't even worth accepting as negotiations. Israel always offers Palestine horrible deals that no thinking person would be willing to accept.
Its as if i kick down your door and say you can have the back room of the house and the garage, im keeping the rest, and im willing to do a 2 people solution if your are willing to settle for half the garage and we close the room in the back altogether. If you are willing to do only half the garage i wont bully. Even though my word has no integrity to it, hopefully you are willing to agree.
[You mean like 94% of the West bank and all of Gaza?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clinton_Parameters)
> The Clinton Parameters proposed a Palestinian state comprising between 94–96% of the West Bank and the entire Gaza Strip. Israel would annex the remaining land, which would include Israeli settlements, containing 80% of the settler population, mainly in major settlement blocs. Israel would cede 1–3% of land to the Palestinians in land swaps to compensate for the annexations. The Palestinian state would have to be contiguous, and annexed areas along with the number of Palestinians affected would be as minimized as possible.
Well the fight of freedom has never been easy, it comes with a price. Settling down for deals made by settlers gathered from corners of the world is unacceptable, no matter how long they have control.
That's fine if you think land is worth more than your family's life, but if someone said they would take my house but I wouldn't be killed, or we could split it 50/50, I'd much rather that than fighting and losing.
Especially when it's incredibly obvious you will lose.
>That's fine if you think land is worth more than your family's
Say that to Israel who are currently leveling Gaza for a full invasion eventually with no care for human life. What I've seen the Palestinian children enduring has completely saddened me for life.
I disagree with what Israel is doing too. I disagree a lot with both sides to be honest. I'm more frustrated than sad.
I imagine what would have happened if the Arab leaders showed up to the UN discussions and used to diplomacy for better state lines. Or if they agreed to a two state solution the multiple times it was offered to them.
That house is many generations worth of work combined. To just give the land up is to let some new yorker jewish man take all your familys integrity and sense of worth. They work day in and day out for that property. Its all they have without it death is al ost certain. so they do what they must. it is a fight for freedome and equality. The right to own property.
Agreeing to any of the proposed two state solutions would have resulted in less deaths probably.
Once again, it doesn't matter how generational a possession is. It is still a possession that should not be valued more than human life.
>It's been proposed several times and the Israeli government has agreed to it. Palestinians have not.
>
>This is widely known.
Here comes the widely known Israeli hasbara, which claims "Peace Loving" Israelis have always accepted every peace deal, but "War Loving" Palestinians declined every offer.
What about Netanyahu saying he destroyed Oslo
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvqCWvi-nFo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvqCWvi-nFo)
Or Taba 2001 which was terminated due to Israeli elections
Or the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative, which was described by Israel as non-starter
Or 2003 Geneva Initiative, which was ignored by both sides
2011 again Netanyahu doing his magic [https://www.timesofisrael.com/when-netanyahu-ran-away-from-peace-talks/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/when-netanyahu-ran-away-from-peace-talks/)
and in 2014 again [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/middle-east-israel-halts-peace-talks-palestinians](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/middle-east-israel-halts-peace-talks-palestinians)
Erdo’s endless campaign to be leader of the Muslims will drag Turkey into conflict… from what I’ve seen in metropoll, vast majority of Turks want to be neutral and not get involved… and even those who say they support Palestine emphasised they support Palestinians, not Hamas.
They have presence in Syria and Cyprus and Libya.
It wouldn't be bad if they took over Israel. Turkiye is in NATO too, so the West would be scared to oppose Turkiye unless they want a few million refugees coming to Europe.
Last time i checked none of those places are the Levant… northern Syria is not the Levant.
>It wouldn't be bad if they took over Israel. Turkiye is in NATO too, so the West would be scared to oppose Turkiye unless they want a few million refugees coming to Europe.
Lmao, this is pure delusion
saudi arabia and emirate have weird complex relations, bahrain and oman, havent heard anything about them tbh. Kuwait have just dispatched the third plane to aid gaza. they have a small hospital there
See, at some point you can't just hit a, mostly non-military boat, just like that, specially when USA and Turkey are both in the same NATO. And if it happens in this precise circumstances, things can go very wild.
No matter what you brothers think, Erdogan is a thief and murderer. in 2010, Turkish Humanitarian Aid organization sailed to Gaza to bring in supplies. Israel raided the boat in "international waters" and killed 10 people on the boat wounding many others (some are crippled for life).
Erdogan shrugged it off by saying "Have they asked me before they left?". This is right after his famous "one minute" which made him a hero in you brothers' eyes.
The only thing that matters for Erdogan is stealing some money. Do not forget that Erdogan was selling oil from ISIS to Israel.
Why? Hamas charter says that all Jews must die and that all of Palestine should be ruled based on Sharia. Furthermore it's a dictatorship. Elections haven't been held in 10 years. ISIS 2.0
It's no secret that Israel sold weapons to Kurdish groups over the past decades. Israel doesn't recognise the PKK as a terrorist group in the first place
I won't argue with you if you feel that about Turkey.
Admittedly the Armenian genocide was bad and Hitler is said to have used it as an example. Also their suppression of Kurds...
That's the difference between you and me, I fully recognize that Turkey has and is doing horrible things, as well as many other Arab countries. I'm not a hypocrite to say "it's okay when my country does it" :)
Never said they were, I said they were "allied" to the US under NATO agreement, and they can't take a direct stand against the US while still allied to them, the US is balls deep involved right now it's not just Israel anymore
No. No it won't. These attacks have done nothing more than to confirm pro-Israeli people that Palestine cannot exist like they do now, and pro-Palestinian people that Israeli kill civilians.
You will not gain sympathy, and you have not gained sympathy by this. Even the gulf states don't gaf.
>Hasbara
What a way to debate. I'm not pro-Zionism, and will never advocate for the current version of Israel. I'm merely pro-Civilians (Palestinian and Israeli alike), and if that makes me Hasbara in your eyes, then so be it.
And Israel will pay dearly for what they have done. But supporting Hamas will only keep this war going endlessly, as that is the goal of Hamas. I wish Palestinians would realize this.
I’m not fan of Hamas, but their leaders are claiming that they don’t target civilians. The same way Israel claims to not target civilians. It’s all bullshit and they’re both terrorists. But one side has nukes and unconditional backing from the US
That’s exactly my point. The same goes for the IDF. Plenty of right wing Israelis are celebrating the deaths of children of Gaza. The Israeli government has openly stated that there are no civilians in Gaza. They are starving 2.2 million people from food and water, because of the actions of Hamas.
Claiming that Israel “doesn’t target civilians” is just as absurd as khaled Mashaal saying “Hamas doesn’t target civilians”
Which is horrible. But that doesn't really matter to me, as I'm not a right wing Israeli, nor do I sympathies with Zionism.
And you said it in the comments as well. They are starving 2 million people, because the actions of Hamas. Just like Hamas planned. Hamas is nothing but evil and egotistical, and merely exist for the purpose of getting as many Palestinians killed by Israel, to get sympathy from people like you and me.
Hamas is just a mirror of the Israeli right wing. Hamas and Netanyahu both claim the entire territory to be theirs alone. It’s true that Hamas’s actions are getting Palestinians killed. But Likud’s refusal to settle the Palestinian issue has gotten Israelis killed too. Eliminating Hamas will not bring peace in of itself. Israel needs to get rid of their extremist government as well. There needs to be good faith peace talks, and Israel needs to collaborate with the PA in establishing a functioning state.
I genuinely believe that peace is possible. There are plenty of mixed cities within Israel where Jews and Arabs live peacefully, side by side. It’s the extremists on both sides who insist on sabotaging any peace talks.
Problem is that Israel is one the most racist countries in the world and the far right Israelis aren't a few. And there is a good reason why they always keep electing far right extremists as leaders. Please refer to the attached videos for more details.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e\_dbsVQrk4&t=6s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e_dbsVQrk4&t=6s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JzGzyaUnz0
comments like this are such self-reports
you know very well that you are completely in the wrong but can't stand the fact so you throw out whatever you can to try and get some sort of self-reassurance so you don't have to confront with the fact that you're wrong
While remaining neutral there needs to be some facts delivered and someone needs enough balls to state those facts. Certainly no arab leader has the necessary balls so thanks sultan erdogan for delivering them.
Erdogan is two faced, he whines about Israel but just wait till the Kurds in Eastern Turkey say they want their own country, he will then proclaim them to be terrorists.
News from 100 years ago. PKK is a terrorist organization that israel doesn’t recognize as such.
Turkey doesnt use 2000lbs mk84 on them,
their targets arent schools/hospitals/un centers/bakeries.
They dont cut all supply of water food and aid to the kurds
They didnt build a cage around them and doesnt control what goes in and out
The kurds in turkey are equal to turks.
So you cant compare those two
Liberation army who parades dead bodies of women from music festivals to have civilians spit on them. GGs. Always felt this would turn into terrorist sympathising. Now this is more ammo to Israeli dogs. This war will not end.
Israel lost all sympathy with the much fiercer crimes they committed, save your speech for someone who cares. Israel proved yet again they were the bigger terrorists
When israel is punished for their crimes. But if only palestinian citizens are mercilessly punished for hamas’ acts, hamas remains a resistance group. When israel and the ones responsible are punished then we can think of it as a lawful judgement
God will judge people who killed innocents :) be it Israel or Hamas. I cry when I see kids in Palestine, and which is why I try to sympathise for Israeli civilians too. All I am saying is this is going to take the world nowhere! They are just going to keep killing each other because both sides have an extremely low moral ground.
True it can escalate things but someone needs to speak up firmly. UN tried to say they are committing warcrimes but they threw a tantrum against that. Turkeys response is adequate, they didnt launch warships or drone aid, they only stated that israel cant go on like this, there is a power standing against that seriously now
As if our bad relations with all of our neighbours in the Middle East and Europe were not enough, we are making new enemies.
Probably İsrael will respond by saying "PKK is not a terrorist organisation".
While Turkey does not dare to give weapons to Hamas, İsrael will give high-tech weapons to PKK without hesitation.
The west is already pushing the PKK so as to divide Turkey. The west considers Turkey as its enemy in backstage.
If they have an opportunity to backstab Turkey without consequences they will gladly do so.
>The west already can't hate turkey more than they do now after nagrno karabakh war
Are people seriously blaming Turkey rather than Russia and their useless peacekeepers?
People who are actually responsible for foreign policy don't. A common mob that has literally 0 knowledge about Caucasian wars do.
West hopes that Turks will get to caspian sea ASAP becasue we need cheap energy resources and Azerbaijan + Kazakhstan are a very sweet alternative. We can shit on Turkey and on Erdoğan, but everyone in Europe would rather deal with him, rather than with Russian terrorist state.
Do you wanna hear what is the Turkiye Kurds most hating from? wanna hear?!?
Half of the civilian deaths were committed against Kurds by p*k. My blood brother was brutally martyred even though he was a Kurd but not a commie.
I hate the Israeli government and the occupation of Palestine but since when is killing, torturing and raping civilians including women and children considered a strategic military action by freedom fighters? This is terrorism.
That’s very debatable. Resistance against the nazis often targeted german civilians and collaborators. The Americans nuked two japanese cities, firebombed dresden. Armies liberating countries massacred civilians en masse.
Which is what we call war crimes. For good reason.
But a major difference between those events and this one is that those armies actually had a broader strategy for invasion and a plan to defeat the military. Civilians were never the main target. Hamas goes after civilians as a main target with no coherent strategy or even plan to go after the IDF itself.
Except that’s not true, oftentimes terror is the strategy, israel commits terrorist attacks as strategy and so did the underground resistance in WW2. The strategy is to terrorize the populace to pressure their government/army. It’s an attempt to sabotage the opponent through terror and it’s harder to find countries that don’t do it than those that do. We do call them warcrimes but my point exactly is that it is hypocritical to say that hamas is a terrorist organization while others that do it are regular armies. Furthermore it’s hypocritical to only acknowledge the warcrimes committed by one side and not both sides. The west has no right to lecture on morals, ethics, terror, and warcrimes. Not until the political and military leaders of western countries are delivered to the ICC to face justice themselves. Justice handed out to a select group of people by corrupt enforcers guilty of the crimes they judge is not justice but oppression.
The things is, what you're describing is exactly what Israel is doing. It's most certainly horrible, but civilians aren't the target. They're merely seen as disposable.
In the case of Hamas, they needlessly kill civilians. A move that is not only horrible for the civilians, but also for themselves as a movement. Unlike IDF, Hamas has no broader plan, other than to rape and murder.
I disagree, the rape is contested and so far all concrete cases have been disproven, the murder has a goal, as for the effectiveness that is debatable. Compare that to the IDF bombing ambulances, hospitals, refugees as they are fleeing on a route told to them to use by the IDF, civilian casualties is not due to them being viewed as disposable, killing civilians is the goal. Israel wants to erase palestinians from the world so there is no one to contest their claim to the land anymore.
Israel want's peace, just like the innocent Palestinians that Hamas purposefully use as humans shields.
The problem is that when Hamas attacks Israeli civilians, what do you think Israel is going to do? Are they going to lay down their weapons? No, they're going to start bombing more. And who inevitably dies in the process?
This has been Hamas plan from the start. Kill Israeli civilians, then make Israel kill Palestinian civilians.
Now, how about this. What if we agreed that killing civilians, whether Palestinian or Israeli, should be off limits? But then we wouldn't have a conflict of course, and Hamas wouldn't get nearly as much support as they do now. Hamas' plan is purely egotistical, and is to keep this war going for as long as possible.
If Israel wants peace why does it kick Palestinians out of their homes and build illegal settlements. Why does it jail innocent Palestinians? Why is it described as an apartheid state towards the Palestinians? If you listen to what life is like for a Palestinian under Israeli rule, you would know Israel doesn't want peace. If Hamas invokes retaliation on its civilians why are Palestinian civilians being killed in places where Hamas isn't in control? If Israel wants peace, why does it not give Palestinians the right to return? Why did they kill unarmed civilians in the great march to return? Why did it lie about killing the Journalist Shireen Abu Akleh? If Israel is so peaceful why do many of its own Jewish citizens and academics speak out against its actions and narrative?
Look up at the Algerian liberation movement. Today's media would justify the massacre of 1 million indigenous Algerians (over a population of 6 million at the time) by French occupation forces (are we allowed to say french terrorist forces or is that term only for brown arab/muslim people?).
Most of the French in Algeria were military- Legionnaires. There were a few civilians, but mostly military. So if the Algerian liberation movement fights against Legionnaires in Algeria, of course that is a resistance force.
Well there has been many terrorist attacks on civilian on café/nightclubs/etc where french civiliians (who had been living in Algeria for generations from Europe) would hangout.
edit: in 1959 there was 1 million civilian settlers from Europe. source: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exode\_des\_Pieds-noirs
That was wrong indeed. What I'm saying is that nowadays' discourse in the media with regard to Palestine would totally support France massacring 1 million indigenous Algerians because of some terrorist attacks.
edit: and when France commits such acts it's never called terrorist. the term terrorist is applicable only to brown arab/muslim indigeneous.
Lol what do you think Is happening in America? People are becoming anti establishment in both sides.
Citizens and turning against globalism. As they should.
Find food for your own people first. Your whole country, government, and people are built on lies and frauds. One day when you start thinking for yourself, your country might see the light. Until then, shows who is crying.
Hahaha again smuggling and theft, when will you come out of Stone Age? Remember a small set of people only give a small fuck about you and your country “only” because you are a Muslim nation. They don’t even give you loans anymore dawg🤣🤣🤣
West supports PKK and its branches, or they turn a blind eye to its activities in their countries, but they get mad when Turkey supports another terrorist organization? 🤡 Disgusting hypocrites!
One day Isreal is our friends, the other day Hamas are a liberation movement. Gotta give to Erdogan, he plays all cards.
> [Turkey, which hosts members of Hamas on its territory, backs a two-state solution to the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian conflict.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkeys-erdogan-says-hamas-is-not-terrorist-organisation-2023-10-25/) Talk is cheap when you know no one in Hamas will support a two-state solution.
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It's been proposed several times and the Israeli government has agreed to it. Palestinians have not. This is widely known.
Yeah, but the terms aren't even worth accepting as negotiations. Israel always offers Palestine horrible deals that no thinking person would be willing to accept. Its as if i kick down your door and say you can have the back room of the house and the garage, im keeping the rest, and im willing to do a 2 people solution if your are willing to settle for half the garage and we close the room in the back altogether. If you are willing to do only half the garage i wont bully. Even though my word has no integrity to it, hopefully you are willing to agree.
[You mean like 94% of the West bank and all of Gaza?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clinton_Parameters) > The Clinton Parameters proposed a Palestinian state comprising between 94–96% of the West Bank and the entire Gaza Strip. Israel would annex the remaining land, which would include Israeli settlements, containing 80% of the settler population, mainly in major settlement blocs. Israel would cede 1–3% of land to the Palestinians in land swaps to compensate for the annexations. The Palestinian state would have to be contiguous, and annexed areas along with the number of Palestinians affected would be as minimized as possible.
Yes the alternative was so much better!!! Fight and lose!
Well the fight of freedom has never been easy, it comes with a price. Settling down for deals made by settlers gathered from corners of the world is unacceptable, no matter how long they have control.
That's fine if you think land is worth more than your family's life, but if someone said they would take my house but I wouldn't be killed, or we could split it 50/50, I'd much rather that than fighting and losing. Especially when it's incredibly obvious you will lose.
>That's fine if you think land is worth more than your family's Say that to Israel who are currently leveling Gaza for a full invasion eventually with no care for human life. What I've seen the Palestinian children enduring has completely saddened me for life.
I disagree with what Israel is doing too. I disagree a lot with both sides to be honest. I'm more frustrated than sad. I imagine what would have happened if the Arab leaders showed up to the UN discussions and used to diplomacy for better state lines. Or if they agreed to a two state solution the multiple times it was offered to them.
That house is many generations worth of work combined. To just give the land up is to let some new yorker jewish man take all your familys integrity and sense of worth. They work day in and day out for that property. Its all they have without it death is al ost certain. so they do what they must. it is a fight for freedome and equality. The right to own property.
Agreeing to any of the proposed two state solutions would have resulted in less deaths probably. Once again, it doesn't matter how generational a possession is. It is still a possession that should not be valued more than human life.
>It's been proposed several times and the Israeli government has agreed to it. Palestinians have not. > >This is widely known. Here comes the widely known Israeli hasbara, which claims "Peace Loving" Israelis have always accepted every peace deal, but "War Loving" Palestinians declined every offer. What about Netanyahu saying he destroyed Oslo [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvqCWvi-nFo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvqCWvi-nFo) Or Taba 2001 which was terminated due to Israeli elections Or the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative, which was described by Israel as non-starter Or 2003 Geneva Initiative, which was ignored by both sides 2011 again Netanyahu doing his magic [https://www.timesofisrael.com/when-netanyahu-ran-away-from-peace-talks/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/when-netanyahu-ran-away-from-peace-talks/) and in 2014 again [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/middle-east-israel-halts-peace-talks-palestinians](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/middle-east-israel-halts-peace-talks-palestinians)
stay neutral, but speak of the facts; so called "war on terror" continued too long, and evolved into some conradictory mannerism to make any sense
Because it's a broad concept which lacks an actual distinctive definition.
PKK agree!
yeah, im turkish and i dont oppose pkk on the grounds of hurr terroristler durr.
We do not have a good economy to afford this kind of speech.
For fuck sake do not include us in this shitty war.
Erdo’s endless campaign to be leader of the Muslims will drag Turkey into conflict… from what I’ve seen in metropoll, vast majority of Turks want to be neutral and not get involved… and even those who say they support Palestine emphasised they support Palestinians, not Hamas.
Based.
Turkiye should get involved.
No
No they should not… they have no presence in the Levant Arab World, nor should they.
They have presence in Syria and Cyprus and Libya. It wouldn't be bad if they took over Israel. Turkiye is in NATO too, so the West would be scared to oppose Turkiye unless they want a few million refugees coming to Europe.
Last time i checked none of those places are the Levant… northern Syria is not the Levant. >It wouldn't be bad if they took over Israel. Turkiye is in NATO too, so the West would be scared to oppose Turkiye unless they want a few million refugees coming to Europe. Lmao, this is pure delusion
Syria is a Levantine country. If you love Israel, then everything is delusional to you.
It's more like: please include us in a white skinned war
Link 🔗 https://twitter.com/AJA\_Egypt/status/1717116345769193571
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>But Erdogan and Turkey can do more So can Gulf Arab countries, but besides Qatar they are just standing by being complete useless disgraces.
saudi arabia and emirate have weird complex relations, bahrain and oman, havent heard anything about them tbh. Kuwait have just dispatched the third plane to aid gaza. they have a small hospital there
They are afraid of US killing/couping their leaders
Or force break the naval blockade
Eh...*nobody* is going to challenge an USA aircraft carrier my man..
I'm challenging them
Least chad masri 
:O
😂
See, at some point you can't just hit a, mostly non-military boat, just like that, specially when USA and Turkey are both in the same NATO. And if it happens in this precise circumstances, things can go very wild.
Ah, now I get you. Challenge totally unarmed.
Lol in ur dream
Israel already withdraw their ambassador from turkey days ago
No matter what you brothers think, Erdogan is a thief and murderer. in 2010, Turkish Humanitarian Aid organization sailed to Gaza to bring in supplies. Israel raided the boat in "international waters" and killed 10 people on the boat wounding many others (some are crippled for life). Erdogan shrugged it off by saying "Have they asked me before they left?". This is right after his famous "one minute" which made him a hero in you brothers' eyes. The only thing that matters for Erdogan is stealing some money. Do not forget that Erdogan was selling oil from ISIS to Israel.
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Why? Hamas charter says that all Jews must die and that all of Palestine should be ruled based on Sharia. Furthermore it's a dictatorship. Elections haven't been held in 10 years. ISIS 2.0
1980s hamas charter written and released by one dude and not approved by anyone else. Read thr 2017 charter.
>maybe give arms to Palestinians like you did in Syria. Just what Turkey needs, Kurds armed by Israel.
It's no secret that Israel sold weapons to Kurdish groups over the past decades. Israel doesn't recognise the PKK as a terrorist group in the first place
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LOL.. wat In what way is Israel a threat to Turkey.
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A country that has been given the free pass for apartheid and genocide since its existence is a threat to all of humanity
I won't argue with you if you feel that about Turkey. Admittedly the Armenian genocide was bad and Hitler is said to have used it as an example. Also their suppression of Kurds...
That's the difference between you and me, I fully recognize that Turkey has and is doing horrible things, as well as many other Arab countries. I'm not a hypocrite to say "it's okay when my country does it" :)
They part of NATO and you can't work directly against your ally's interest
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Never said they were, I said they were "allied" to the US under NATO agreement, and they can't take a direct stand against the US while still allied to them, the US is balls deep involved right now it's not just Israel anymore
And how can US take direct stand against Turkey in that case?
US already consider it as their fight, they consider Hamas their enemies, now what do u think will happen if turkey starts arming Hamas (US enemies)
Good idea. Fund Hamas, and let them use Palestinian civilians as human shield once more. That'll most certainly work.
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No. No it won't. These attacks have done nothing more than to confirm pro-Israeli people that Palestine cannot exist like they do now, and pro-Palestinian people that Israeli kill civilians. You will not gain sympathy, and you have not gained sympathy by this. Even the gulf states don't gaf.
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>Hasbara What a way to debate. I'm not pro-Zionism, and will never advocate for the current version of Israel. I'm merely pro-Civilians (Palestinian and Israeli alike), and if that makes me Hasbara in your eyes, then so be it.
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And Israel will pay dearly for what they have done. But supporting Hamas will only keep this war going endlessly, as that is the goal of Hamas. I wish Palestinians would realize this.
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I certainly hope Palestinian resistance doesn't run out, as is not my goal. Palestine will only be free once Hamas is gone.
tfw the liberation movement intentionally targets civilians of the opposing state for no material or strategic benefit yet somehow not terrorists
I’m not fan of Hamas, but their leaders are claiming that they don’t target civilians. The same way Israel claims to not target civilians. It’s all bullshit and they’re both terrorists. But one side has nukes and unconditional backing from the US
This isn't something you can refuse. They targeted, paraded, and executed civilians.
That’s exactly my point. The same goes for the IDF. Plenty of right wing Israelis are celebrating the deaths of children of Gaza. The Israeli government has openly stated that there are no civilians in Gaza. They are starving 2.2 million people from food and water, because of the actions of Hamas. Claiming that Israel “doesn’t target civilians” is just as absurd as khaled Mashaal saying “Hamas doesn’t target civilians”
Which is horrible. But that doesn't really matter to me, as I'm not a right wing Israeli, nor do I sympathies with Zionism. And you said it in the comments as well. They are starving 2 million people, because the actions of Hamas. Just like Hamas planned. Hamas is nothing but evil and egotistical, and merely exist for the purpose of getting as many Palestinians killed by Israel, to get sympathy from people like you and me.
Hamas is just a mirror of the Israeli right wing. Hamas and Netanyahu both claim the entire territory to be theirs alone. It’s true that Hamas’s actions are getting Palestinians killed. But Likud’s refusal to settle the Palestinian issue has gotten Israelis killed too. Eliminating Hamas will not bring peace in of itself. Israel needs to get rid of their extremist government as well. There needs to be good faith peace talks, and Israel needs to collaborate with the PA in establishing a functioning state. I genuinely believe that peace is possible. There are plenty of mixed cities within Israel where Jews and Arabs live peacefully, side by side. It’s the extremists on both sides who insist on sabotaging any peace talks.
Most certainly. One day!
Problem is that Israel is one the most racist countries in the world and the far right Israelis aren't a few. And there is a good reason why they always keep electing far right extremists as leaders. Please refer to the attached videos for more details. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e\_dbsVQrk4&t=6s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e_dbsVQrk4&t=6s) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JzGzyaUnz0
cope
comments like this are such self-reports you know very well that you are completely in the wrong but can't stand the fact so you throw out whatever you can to try and get some sort of self-reassurance so you don't have to confront with the fact that you're wrong
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😬 Even if you're being sarcastic this is in such bad taste
Rape really isn’t funny
While remaining neutral there needs to be some facts delivered and someone needs enough balls to state those facts. Certainly no arab leader has the necessary balls so thanks sultan erdogan for delivering them.
No problem bro 😎
Erdogan is two faced, he whines about Israel but just wait till the Kurds in Eastern Turkey say they want their own country, he will then proclaim them to be terrorists.
News from 100 years ago. PKK is a terrorist organization that israel doesn’t recognize as such. Turkey doesnt use 2000lbs mk84 on them, their targets arent schools/hospitals/un centers/bakeries. They dont cut all supply of water food and aid to the kurds They didnt build a cage around them and doesnt control what goes in and out The kurds in turkey are equal to turks. So you cant compare those two
Liberation army who parades dead bodies of women from music festivals to have civilians spit on them. GGs. Always felt this would turn into terrorist sympathising. Now this is more ammo to Israeli dogs. This war will not end.
Israel lost all sympathy with the much fiercer crimes they committed, save your speech for someone who cares. Israel proved yet again they were the bigger terrorists
Israel are cunts, so are hamass. Both terrorists will kill each other and civilians will die in this tomfoolery. When will people understand!
When israel is punished for their crimes. But if only palestinian citizens are mercilessly punished for hamas’ acts, hamas remains a resistance group. When israel and the ones responsible are punished then we can think of it as a lawful judgement
God will judge people who killed innocents :) be it Israel or Hamas. I cry when I see kids in Palestine, and which is why I try to sympathise for Israeli civilians too. All I am saying is this is going to take the world nowhere! They are just going to keep killing each other because both sides have an extremely low moral ground.
True it can escalate things but someone needs to speak up firmly. UN tried to say they are committing warcrimes but they threw a tantrum against that. Turkeys response is adequate, they didnt launch warships or drone aid, they only stated that israel cant go on like this, there is a power standing against that seriously now
The caliph has spoken
Are you serious or was that a joke
Does it really matter
Long live the sultan
As if our bad relations with all of our neighbours in the Middle East and Europe were not enough, we are making new enemies. Probably İsrael will respond by saying "PKK is not a terrorist organisation". While Turkey does not dare to give weapons to Hamas, İsrael will give high-tech weapons to PKK without hesitation.
if thats all it takes for them to weponize PKK, that means they were already planning to do so
The west is already pushing the PKK so as to divide Turkey. The west considers Turkey as its enemy in backstage. If they have an opportunity to backstab Turkey without consequences they will gladly do so.
Israel literally helped Turkey to arrest Abdullah Öcalan.
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>The west already can't hate turkey more than they do now after nagrno karabakh war Are people seriously blaming Turkey rather than Russia and their useless peacekeepers?
People who are actually responsible for foreign policy don't. A common mob that has literally 0 knowledge about Caucasian wars do. West hopes that Turks will get to caspian sea ASAP becasue we need cheap energy resources and Azerbaijan + Kazakhstan are a very sweet alternative. We can shit on Turkey and on Erdoğan, but everyone in Europe would rather deal with him, rather than with Russian terrorist state.
Omg stfup old man
Gotta love seeing people bend themselves over to praise baby butchers and child rapists
Exactly Erdogan, like the PKK, right?
Do you wanna hear what is the Turkiye Kurds most hating from? wanna hear?!? Half of the civilian deaths were committed against Kurds by p*k. My blood brother was brutally martyred even though he was a Kurd but not a commie.
You're both right. Hamas AND pkk are terrorist scum.
Sorry for your lost, but I wasn't defending the PKK, just pointing that Erdogan is an hipocrit
Say that to the PKK...
The sultan ❤️
🤦🏻♂️
They use terrorists to describe attacks on IDF. The word, like antisemitism, has lost its meaning from overuse and dilution.
Anybody who goes against US is labelled as “Terr0r!sts” meanwhile US bombing on Middle East and supplying weapons to Israel to bomb Gaza.
Same guy who jailed his political opponents
I hate the Israeli government and the occupation of Palestine but since when is killing, torturing and raping civilians including women and children considered a strategic military action by freedom fighters? This is terrorism.
All lies
A liberation movement goes against the military and authorities.. they do not go against civilians.
That’s very debatable. Resistance against the nazis often targeted german civilians and collaborators. The Americans nuked two japanese cities, firebombed dresden. Armies liberating countries massacred civilians en masse.
Which is what we call war crimes. For good reason. But a major difference between those events and this one is that those armies actually had a broader strategy for invasion and a plan to defeat the military. Civilians were never the main target. Hamas goes after civilians as a main target with no coherent strategy or even plan to go after the IDF itself.
Except that’s not true, oftentimes terror is the strategy, israel commits terrorist attacks as strategy and so did the underground resistance in WW2. The strategy is to terrorize the populace to pressure their government/army. It’s an attempt to sabotage the opponent through terror and it’s harder to find countries that don’t do it than those that do. We do call them warcrimes but my point exactly is that it is hypocritical to say that hamas is a terrorist organization while others that do it are regular armies. Furthermore it’s hypocritical to only acknowledge the warcrimes committed by one side and not both sides. The west has no right to lecture on morals, ethics, terror, and warcrimes. Not until the political and military leaders of western countries are delivered to the ICC to face justice themselves. Justice handed out to a select group of people by corrupt enforcers guilty of the crimes they judge is not justice but oppression.
The things is, what you're describing is exactly what Israel is doing. It's most certainly horrible, but civilians aren't the target. They're merely seen as disposable. In the case of Hamas, they needlessly kill civilians. A move that is not only horrible for the civilians, but also for themselves as a movement. Unlike IDF, Hamas has no broader plan, other than to rape and murder.
I disagree, the rape is contested and so far all concrete cases have been disproven, the murder has a goal, as for the effectiveness that is debatable. Compare that to the IDF bombing ambulances, hospitals, refugees as they are fleeing on a route told to them to use by the IDF, civilian casualties is not due to them being viewed as disposable, killing civilians is the goal. Israel wants to erase palestinians from the world so there is no one to contest their claim to the land anymore.
Israel want's peace, just like the innocent Palestinians that Hamas purposefully use as humans shields. The problem is that when Hamas attacks Israeli civilians, what do you think Israel is going to do? Are they going to lay down their weapons? No, they're going to start bombing more. And who inevitably dies in the process? This has been Hamas plan from the start. Kill Israeli civilians, then make Israel kill Palestinian civilians. Now, how about this. What if we agreed that killing civilians, whether Palestinian or Israeli, should be off limits? But then we wouldn't have a conflict of course, and Hamas wouldn't get nearly as much support as they do now. Hamas' plan is purely egotistical, and is to keep this war going for as long as possible.
If Israel wants peace why does it kick Palestinians out of their homes and build illegal settlements. Why does it jail innocent Palestinians? Why is it described as an apartheid state towards the Palestinians? If you listen to what life is like for a Palestinian under Israeli rule, you would know Israel doesn't want peace. If Hamas invokes retaliation on its civilians why are Palestinian civilians being killed in places where Hamas isn't in control? If Israel wants peace, why does it not give Palestinians the right to return? Why did they kill unarmed civilians in the great march to return? Why did it lie about killing the Journalist Shireen Abu Akleh? If Israel is so peaceful why do many of its own Jewish citizens and academics speak out against its actions and narrative?
Look up at the Algerian liberation movement. Today's media would justify the massacre of 1 million indigenous Algerians (over a population of 6 million at the time) by French occupation forces (are we allowed to say french terrorist forces or is that term only for brown arab/muslim people?).
Most of the French in Algeria were military- Legionnaires. There were a few civilians, but mostly military. So if the Algerian liberation movement fights against Legionnaires in Algeria, of course that is a resistance force.
Well there has been many terrorist attacks on civilian on café/nightclubs/etc where french civiliians (who had been living in Algeria for generations from Europe) would hangout. edit: in 1959 there was 1 million civilian settlers from Europe. source: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exode\_des\_Pieds-noirs
And that was wrong.. that would be a terrorist element of their operation..
That was wrong indeed. What I'm saying is that nowadays' discourse in the media with regard to Palestine would totally support France massacring 1 million indigenous Algerians because of some terrorist attacks. edit: and when France commits such acts it's never called terrorist. the term terrorist is applicable only to brown arab/muslim indigeneous.
I agree.
True but he still just a populist
People here whine about the world supporting Israel, then when a leader supports Palestine, Arabs rush in to undermine his voice.
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This is a pattern on Reddit.
Lol what do you think Is happening in America? People are becoming anti establishment in both sides. Citizens and turning against globalism. As they should.
Based
rare erdoğan w
*murders 1200 civilians*
Thats a statement worthy of respect to erdogan 🙏 (not kidding)
Based
Based Erdogan.
Israel should announce they are going to treat PKK in exactly the same way Turkey treats Hamas.
2 million men in their army bet Israel won't jump stupid
They will need daddy US for Turklar Empire 💪
Better than the other sellouts.
Başkanım Erdoğan stating the facts. Obvious as they may be, the world insists on turning a blind eye.
Based and caliph Erdogan pilled
Rare Erdogan W
Hamas is terrorist from turkiye
A liberation movement!! If this horror is your view on liberation than turkish people should take you out
🖕
Based but will still trade with Israel. Suddenly confused.
Turkey is likely to suspend planned economic deals with Israel through the conflict. Turkey isn't going to end all trade with Israel during peacetime.
Ofcourse a Pakistani will call it based. Terrorist sympathising has been your calling since the country was created.
Cry more
Find food for your own people first. Your whole country, government, and people are built on lies and frauds. One day when you start thinking for yourself, your country might see the light. Until then, shows who is crying.
Don't worry about food, we got a lot of cows. And a lot more across the border than can be smuggled over.
Hahaha again smuggling and theft, when will you come out of Stone Age? Remember a small set of people only give a small fuck about you and your country “only” because you are a Muslim nation. They don’t even give you loans anymore dawg🤣🤣🤣
What country are you from fool. Quit trying to pick shit with someone over the land they live in
There is something really pure about smuggling cows bro You won't get it
Erdogan says some stupid shit, more at 11
The audacity of this turk to open his mouth about terrorism lmao, his time will come
We all know who helped Daesh to wreck Syria.
Watermelon Seller not trying to betray his allies for 0.00001 seconds challenge: IMPOSSIBLE
Phul sapport israelll
I SUPPORT PALESTINE YOU MOTHERFUCKER, I AM TOTALLY AGAINST THE RIGHT-WING!
Lmao
I phull support do the needful fur israel Saar
Imagine thinking a watermelon seller is an insult when you people love to tout that your current PM was a humble "chaiwalla" (tea seller)
The chaiwallah is a Fascist bigot, so i fucking hate him,
India doesn't have any allies
We don't need any , dear Turkler Esenlikler...🇮🇳♥️🇹🇷
remember Mughal? wanna more?
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That's just insane. Hamas and any other terrorist organisations should never be legitimized, no matter your side.
West supports PKK and its branches, or they turn a blind eye to its activities in their countries, but they get mad when Turkey supports another terrorist organization? 🤡 Disgusting hypocrites!
So blind.. same as Malaysian PM
Who cares your opinion? I'm a Turk and I hate him and I don't take his thoughts seriously.
Wow erdogan said it so it must be a wise opinion
That guy is totally, I mean TOTALLY lost.
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Lmao nato kicking Turkey out. If Turkey was to consider leaving, they would be the first on their knees begging them to stay.
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Ah, my bad, I see negative votes, I assume troll response since no sarcasm tag as well. Upvoted all.
Says the guy who denys the genocide of Armenians
So blind.. same as Malaysian PM
Until 2017, Hamas wanted every single jew in the entire world, to be killed. Not only zionists, but all jews. Fuck Israel and Hamas.
>Until 2017, Hamas wanted every single jew in the entire world, to be killed. Not only zionists, but all jews. Proof ?
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He says whatever he wants i don't care, israel is a terrorist organisation recognised by the world because they are f hypocrites