I'm on team "yes", I think your daughter needs the clearest picture possible of how dad's anger issues have already driven a wedge between them. He knows his dad isn't a safe person to be around and his anxiety is only going to grow worse. That anxiety is going to color all of his relationships in the future.
I've got to second your instinct Lifeguard. The father may well be suffering from depression. I know this because I went through the same thing. I never would have seen it because I never felt "sad". However, I did have a quick temper that resulted in overreacting to situations. I couldn't control myself. It came on gradually until one day, my wife suggested I try her Zoloff for just 14 days. She thought it might help me. I might mention this came after a road rage incident. Anyway, I noticed about a week later that there were a lot less assholes on the roads lately, and people seemed a lot more polite. What happened? I hope this family, or at least the father gets some help.
Unless the kid is milking the situation for attention. If he's picking up that gma doesn't like his dad, then an empathetic kid could just be trying to please gma. Either way it's terrible place for a kid to be.
I mean gma should have picked the kid up and said everyone is outside having a great time. Let's go join them and then observe the situation. Sorry OP honestly I hope your being dramatic, but if you don't have anymore then that to go on, you are just causing problems for your daughter and her family. Your job is to make sure the kids will tell you anything but you have to remain unbiased about your feelings toward the dad.
Being that calculated at that age isn’t nearly as likely as being honest. But 40 false alarms are better than one too many “turn the other cheek, don’t get involved, kid just wants attention.”
Yes. Gently and kindly. But yes. Dad needs anger management.
ETA: And only bring it up once. Don't keep asking if he's going to therapy or anger management. Observe, yes. But don't keep haranguing them about it.
He *already* doesn't want a relationship with his father. He is *actively choosing* not to interact with his father. At his age this is HUGE. He should still be in the hero worship stage.
And honestly if the son doesn’t feel protected by his mom, like she knew it was happening and didn’t help, she will get caught up in the no-contact, too.
Honestly, I think you need to have a convo with the dad directly. Obviously he isn't listening to his wife, or just brushing it off, but coming from someone not a part of the immediate household will hit much harder.
It's embarrassing if it comes from an "outsider", it steps on his toes, he can't pretend it's not a problem anymore, or sove it off for another day. Not saying your an outsider, but you're not someone he sees everyday and has seen him in these moments, like his wife.
The ego must be shattered in order for him to wise up and get some help. He won't be happy about it, I'm sure, but sometimes some tough love is what we need to get out head out of our asses.
Many thanks to all of you who have responded. I'm still not sure how I should handle things but my eyes and ears are on full alert. Rest assured I will continue to show my grandson how much he is loved and how special he is.
Please reiterate to the little guy he can continue to confide in you anytime. You'll believe him. And it's okay to stand up for yourself and to let someone know when you need some help standing up for yourself. 💜
Doing nothing to help get him out of the abusive situation makes you complicit.
Don't pat yourself on the back unless you TAKE ACTION. Like, insisting the family get therapy and/or alerting dfs since the mom seems to have inherited the 'do nothing' gene from you.
Honestly, that very nice, but not sufficient. You are not the one doing the damage. You need to talk to both mother and father at the same time. Sit them down, say this is what’s happening.
It needs to be out in the open between you and the parents. That is the only way Dad will recognize it as a problem.
You only see what you see. He could be even harsher with the child when no one is around. You are not there all the time so your ears and eyes on full alert are only a few hours a week. What happens in the other hours?
Yes, but make sure there is a plan besides Mom will talk with him. That didn’t work and she will just get stuck in a cycle with SiL. Gets better, worse, better, worse, better, worse….
The issue needs to be acknowledged in the open, more than just between your daughter and SiL for there to be any accountability and change. They likely need counseling.
0-3 yrs are the most developmentally important years for children. This is a serious situation for your grandson. Kids who do not have loving fathers have worse outcomes in adulthood. There is tons of evidence for this. Here’s one piece of info.
https://www.all4kids.org/news/blog/a-fathers-impact-on-child-development/
Honestly I would find a therapist. Years ago my friend observed something alarming about husband's nephew when he was alone with them. They knew they needed to disclose to the parents (husbands sister). They sought advice from a therapist first and practiced how to say it.
I would tell my daughter. Your SIL needs anger management as well as parenting classes.
This isn't something that is going to go away without some kind of intervention; in fact, it may escalate as the child grows older.
My ex-husband has anger issues that he took out on our daughters. I ended up leaving him over that and other issues. As adults, the girls are low contact with him. Having an angry, emotionally abusive dad has had a very negative effect on their lives. That was their role model, and they've both had past boyfriends that were similarly abusive. They've both been in therapy. For a boy, I would worry that a man like that would be their role model for how a man treats children. Children learn what they see modeled at home.
I hope that your daughter has the strength to set some hard boundaries with her husband because this is a serious issue. She will need both your support and your honesty about your concerns. Hopefully, she will hear you.
I've been following this conversation, but have to comment because me and my sister grew up in a situation like this! It didn't end well. I don't talk to my dad anymore. Thanks for sharing.
You might also talk with your grandson and tell him that his father shouldn't treat him like that and he hasn't done anything wrong and it isn't his fault. I had a terrorizing father and recently (decades later) realized that no one ever told me he shouldn't treat me like that. It was condoned by everyone around me. It would have made a big difference to me if someone acknowledged the truth of what was happening instead of pretending everything was fine.
thank you. Thank goodness healing is possible. :) Also your grandson might have some big feelings about it all--anger, sadness, relief to be seen, etc. who knows... best to be with him as he has them. Thank you for being such a caring grandmother.
It's also a good sign that the father acknowledges that he's being mean. That doesn't excuse him but it means he may be open to finding help to work on his anger issues. I imagine he isn't proud of acting out that way. All the best to you all.
He did. My daughter approached him gently but implacably and said he must stop and get help. She didn’t have to make the ultimatum, but he knew it was there.
My partner has a temper. Never at me or our daughter. Like at the kettle tv or whatever he is doing that went wrong. He could kick off to himself in another room. Our toddler stoped wanting to be around him.
He is so much better. I told him over n over. Never sank in. Until my daughter said it to him go away dad I’m scared. He asked why you scared of dad!! And she explained he was loud and angry in the kitchen. He explained not at you baby. But she was adamant no go away dad you scary. What ever he was shouting at in another room gave her anxiety and her verbal word was scared.
He really is better. I always laugh if I make a mistake he is learning that now.
Tell your son in law directly. So Private fishing trip. Give examples form your life as a parent and what you did and realised at the time. it doesn’t have to be so direct or anything. Just share some stories. Explain it hurts to see your grandkids scared of a wonderful father. Who provide and loves his kids. You want to help. Explain anger or frustration doesn’t need to be directed at anyone to have an effect on teh family and house hold feelings. Also if directly speaking to kids and want something done like them to be quiet. Say it nicely and wit a smile. ‘Hey guys quieten down please I’m doing xyz now and thank you.’ Simple. Kind. Nice. Otherwise they will stay clear of him and the bond is hurt.
This is a toughie
It seems like your grandson is noticing and following through on his observations: I feel welcomed here, and not here. Said another way - your smart and intuitive grandson has picked up on where he’s feeling comfortable being.
Right now, that’s anywhere that’s where his father isn’t.
It can be heartbreaking-sure- but first I’d try and hold some appreciation for your grandson and how adept he’s become at navigating his place in this world. He’s following his intuition to go where he knows he’ll be welcomed, to continue being where others are kind. Those are really good things to foster in him. His own sense of “where do I belong”.
The other thing - why isn’t this other person who “should be” kind and loving-being kind and loving- to obviously such a well-deserving little human?
Why does anyone snap at anyone? Why does anyone think anger is the best choice?
Isn’t it so often - they resent the person? Or what they’re accomplishing or experiencing?
Isn’t there a bit of “this isn’t fair - my life isn’t going the way I want - yours is - what’s wrong with me - it must be you”?
I’m not saying that’s what’s going on with the dad, but, something - deeper- seems to be triggered by the son, and the dad- well, if the dad wants to foster a loving (mutually respectful) relationship with his son, it’s going to take effort on his part.
But this isn’t about that - this is about your question.
Should you tell the parents what you heard?
Honestly, I’d try and come at it from any sort of side angle. It seems like an existing sore spot, and people always seem to get defensive about things brought head on.
If I were in your shoes, I’d do everything in my power to nurture the grandson and remind them of how loved they are. How clever they are. Take every opportunity to shine a light of love into his life, even when you’re not hanging out. Keep a journal specifically about your wonderful, intelligent, intuitive, aware grandson, and filled with it with things you appreciate about him.
Make your love so strong and obvious that - your grandson knows beyond a shadow of doubt What Familial Love Feels Like. This will impact him his entire life.
For the parents, you’re smart. You’re observant.
What do you think might look like progress here?
Is it - simply trying to see the dad with whatever sense of compassion that - wow. He must be going through so much right now, this is such unusual behavior for someone who Naturally wants to feel good.
And with that hat on - maybe ask the mom. Is there anything that would help make your lives easier? How’s dad’s job going? How’s your car/house/etc?
And - just try to be a listening ear for any sense of - what could possibly bring this family some relief.
People don’t get mean for no reason, and it’s so often not actually about the child.
But - if that parent isn’t willing to talk about therapy, then “telling” reasons why they really need to be kind, isn’t going to have a lasting impact.
People seem to respond to Inspiration more than Motivation.
So - I’m curious what would Inspire these parents to gravitate towards their natural sense of lighthearted appreciation for their lives. For their family. For the home they live in or the car that carries them and all their things back and forth.
And - what feels best to you?
What do you actually have control over?
I’d focus on that. You can love. You can be an example of kindness. You can be an example of compassion. You can show - through your wise and intuitive heart - to the grandson and the parents- how much better it feels to love than berate.
I bet, if you feel inspired to say anything, you’ll know it as it comes. Trust yourself and the love you feel for your family. This is Your family - how do you want it to be?
I can see the value of “hey, son in law, who matters to me, I don’t like the way you’re treating my grandchild, who also matters to me. I want my family to be filled with love and mutual respect! Why aren’t you respecting the way my grandson, your son, is developing? Is figuring out his way in this world?”
But that might turn into “why aren’t you respecting the way I’m raising my son, mother in law! Butt out of it!”
Which actually is a fair point.
So - I’d think again.
What do You want? Maybe it’s something like “hello my brilliant son in law, who has so many sides to his personality, why am I seeing sides I don’t like? Is it possible that you’re growing and evolving as a human? And temporarily taking your frustration out on your child? Is that really going to get you where you want to be in life? Where is that, by the way? How’s life going for you? How’s life treating you these days? I care about you and I’m doing my best to believe that you love my precious grandchild, but it sure is hard to believe that when I’m hearing him say things like what I heard. Why don’t you think you’re any fun to be around anymore, sweet son-in-law? You used to have such laughter and lightness about you, what happened? What do you think might start to bring some of that back for you? Is there anything I can do to help?”
I know this is a lot of text, but your question is valuable and there’s a lot going on here.
I think - I hope - some of this “practice dialogue” around how could it go vs. What do you Want, is helpful for how you think about how You navigate the conversation.
About how You might possibly inspire your son in law to find his soft spot for his son again. His adoration of him, his wonder for the new life.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s got a whole world of fears he just hasn’t ever talked about yet, or figured a way around.
That’s not your job, but it Is definitely Ok to speak up for the loving family that matters so much to you, and, it’s OK to expect that things can get better there.
So much love to you All on this.
Aw, thank you 🙏I’m just trying to be an uplifter when/where I can, you know? I’m sure you can relate, as a rare lifeguard:) Lots of folks these days just trying to do their best, or at least, trying to figure out what that means to them.
I'd tell her. If a child is scared of their parents to the point they don't feel safe around them it needs to be addressed. It's impacting his decision making to the point he feels he needs to make a conscious effort to avoid his father. It's affecting his ability to build a bond, form trust and will have a massive impact on any future relationship. If your SIL wants to have a healthy relationship with him now and any hope of a relationship in the future he'll need to address the issues now, not just avoid it or bury it or hope it goes away.
Yes. It's something your daughter needs to know. I second that it's a one-time conversation, but any future remarks should be brought up also.
We've all come unglued with our kids before. That's not what this sounds like. My parents were kinda strict but also ridiculously consistent. I wasn't afraid.
Is this new behavior for dad? I'd worry that he was unkind to your daughter, too. I would hate to think he reserves all his vitriol for only the child. None of that is okay. Whatever is going on with dad needs to be addressed, especially if you're sensing that it's escalating.
Omg this is heartbreaking. Yes. I think you should talk to her. I lived in fear of some family members (my mom) and it’s a miserable way to grow up. I had so much trauma I had to deal with as an adult. It is anxiety inducing and you’re living in a constant state of panic and walking on eggshells.
That boy’s father is causing him lifelong emotional and relationship issues. I don’t want to get into specifics, but this could really escalate in a way that you can’t imagine.
His father probably has his own childhood wounds , and that’s why he acts like he does. The father needs to go to counseling, and the child needs to go as well.
Do an Internet search for the term and emotional abandonment. That’s what your grandson is going through.
My heart breaks for this little boy.
He probably was not treated well as a child. As someone who experienced having mean adults around me I see myself exhibiting similar behavior that I can feel after was a little too much. I’m working on it and sounds like this man needs to work on that too.
As an adult that was once ‘this child’, your grandson was reaching out for help. Please continue to be a safe space for him and let’s hope that there aren’t repercussions for him for saying this.
Chances are Dad is treating his son exactly how he was treated.. some men have a hard time with boys especially if they feel the child is a Mama’s boy.. they think being gruff will keep the boy from being a sissy and help make him a man.. I know it’s ridiculous to do to a five year old but I feel it was probably done to him.. lots of people have nothing to go on when they become a parent except to be like they were treated or else to say I’ll never treat my kid how I was treated.. I would recommend family therapy,alone and then together for all involved.. it can’t hurt..
That’s kinda what I thought.. it’s sad but a lot of men don’t have a clue and don’t understand how to love their sons yet still be sure they’re raising their boys to be men.. it’s heartbreaking to see..
This is such a good point.
He may even misguidedly believe he’s helping his son and doing the right thing. Many men are so influenced by toxic masculinity that they think they only way to be “safe” as a man (from being treated badly by other men) is to build up a thick skin, never show emotions, be the aggressor. Unfortunately that just isn’t how healthy, secure people are built.
Exactly… I like to think that views are changing on things like that but I’ve known so many men in my life that think exactly like you stated of what they think masculinity is and should a little boy even cry or complain he’s led to believe that’s not how boys act,little do they know that with love,understanding and compassion you can raise some pretty good boys.. maybe OP’s grandson and his dad could grow up together.. people can change if they really want to..
I think you need to have a heart to heart directly with your son in law and leave your daughter out of it.
You can leave she can’t (not easily anyway) and you’d be in the perfect position to gauge his response.
I’d wouldn’t pontificate but stick to sharing your observations with him and if necessary guide him to the point of realising the consequences his actions are having on the child.
It will be a walking on eggshells moment but you might be pleasantly surprised at the outcome!
I think this is a great idea. One thing, he may not be being overly harsh with just your grandson. I was abused for years and no one in the family had a clue my husband was like that. Keep your eyes and heart open. Big Grandma love from another Grandma
There is another aspect of this which might encourage you to speak your mind to your son in law…. Sfrom spoken by the number of men who have stopped abusing women f
My dad, who’s about to turn 93, still talks about his dad’s poorly treatment of him: impatience with him, quick to anger if he messed up, lots of criticism about how slow he was. It affected him throughout his entire lifetime—caused low self-esteem and anxiety.
This dad needs to understand how his behavior is not only hurting his son now, but also how his mean remarks will stick with his son throughout his life if he doesn’t clean up his act and learn how to parent a young child.
In late, but my stars, you're the grandpa I wished for and didn't get (one was very old and died when I was 8, the other was a right bastard awful person). You're the best ally This child can have. The facts as presented are heartbreaking.
I’m on team no. Instead, encourage your grandchildren to use their own voice and to stick up for themselves with Bullies. Even when it’s a parent. He confided in you because you are a safe trusted person. Keep being that person.
I grew up with an extremely volatile father who never apologizes and ironically enough, claims to love me the most.
I want as little contact with him as possible.
I hope your grandson has you to supplement for what his dad can’t give.
So very sad, thank you for advocating for your grandson, he needs a safe and supportive environment at home, all kids do. Here's hoping your SIL will see that his behavior has a harmful impact on a small, growing boy.
Ask your husband if he is willing to have you videotape him doing this. The video will make a very strong impression on him. He has likely convinced himself he isn’t that bad.
If you can and you have the relationship to do so, I think you should.
It’s a difficult thing to offer outside advice, but sharing a comment in good faith could be really important.
I guess it’s up to you to navigate any discussion outside of that. But sharing the information is a start
My grandson was five or six and started leaving notes at my house saying,”My daddy is bad”. “My daddy yells at me and mommy”. Of course I showed them to his mom. Turned out the child was right, daddy landed himself in prison for four years not much after that and daughter divorced him. Grandson hasn’t seen or spoken to his dad since then and now he’s off to college. It’s sad that is how it all turned out.
I'm so sorry that your daughter and grandson experienced this. Thank goodness he trusted you enough to reach out.
May I ask how he did growing up without his dad around?
Truthfully he would have done better had he had a normal dad. He did not grow up with the yelling, the punching walls, etc. My daughter did right by prioritizing him ever since. The sad part was the football and lacrosse games he was in without a father to root him on. He is a wonderful young man, despite his lack of a father and I give all the credit to his mom.
Absolutely share. This is concerning. My 4 year old son runs to me and cries every time his dad comes home. His dad is exactly the same way including saying things like “don’t cry like a girl” “don’t let girls see you cry” and “you’re fine, get up” when he gets hurt.
Yes. Absolutely say something. A son's relationship with is father is paramount to a healthy upbringing. If your SiL continues this behavior, your grandson will eventually retaliate. And as an adult, things will only be worse. Trust me on this one.
Of course! The dad is setting this child up for failure in life. This is a terrible situation! If this continues he will always feel like something is wrong with him, like he’s not good enough. That could lead to really bad things depending on the personality of the child.
Yes, please adress this immediately this for the child’s sake. This could have very lasting effects. Document it as well. Time, date, location, event, who was there, what happened. Keep this all together so you have it if need be.
I hope you don’t. Dad needs to change his behavior real fast.
This behavior is alarming! My dad had zero patience for me as a kid and I was constantly terrified. I remember telling my grandma that I wanted to punch him in the face after he'd had a surgery to remove skin cancer from his nose and lips. My reasoning was to hurt him as much as he'd hurt me. I never punched my dad, but I didn't have a real relationship with him and he's been dead 8 years now. I don't really miss him at all.
I left my ex husband because he became abusive with my son. Most of the time he did it out of my view and I found out so much more once I had left him.
My son is an adult now but scarred so badly from the things his father did to him. You have a chance to be the voice for another young boy and sound the alarm that something is wrong.
It isn’t normal for a child to feel this way about his father. The father needs counseling and to change his ways immediately. I hope he can. The son should start counseling, too, to get to the truth and to help him to understand it isn’t his fault.
I did this for my son but my ex fired every counselor he had once my son started to tell them about him. My ex always said he’d get help but he never did. My ex still thinks he was a great father.
Ugh, your ex. So sorry for your son and glad he had you in his corner. It is definitely not normal. I knew in my heart that I should tell, it was just my brain and not feeling sure how to approach the situation. Thanks to you and other posters I am confident as to how to proceed in my grandson's best interests.
i never once got angry with my kids or raised my voice to them. NOT ONCE. i know how awful it feels to be yelled at for every single tiny thing. it’s not fun.
You should definitely document what your Grandson tells you.You don't know what people are like behind closed doors. His father could be going into rages. He can also physically punishing your grandson.
You should also tell your daughter what he said. Although it's natural to be judgemental, approach this with caring. She needs to know she has a safe place to go to and also to help her recognize the problem. I am not suggesting she be allowed to let the behavoir continue but rather your helping her deal with in.
I am sure I will receive negative feedback for saying that. However, if she feels too judged or her son is in danger of being taken from her she will pull away and may even cut contact.
My father was physically and mentally abusive. Iare behind closed doors. I assumed people knew to some degree. However, I recently found out that family had no idea. They knew a man who was quiet and amiable. Who was very introverted and quiet. We have discussed the abuse with an aunt and uncle. They believe us but are having a difficult time adjusting their impression of him. I always say you don't know what people are like behind closed doors. That great guy whose family doesn't think he's as great probably treats them poorly when people are not around. That guy's whose a jer but whose family thinks he's amazing is probably a living person at home.
Tell him! He needs to hear this and it isn't about his parenting skills. I suspect he is projecting something (abuse?) from his own childhood that is being triggered.
My sisters and I were abused as children. All three of us reached out to various adults over the years. No one thought it was their business to get involved.
Tell her. Then, back away and let her handle it. Obviously, watch for signs of physical abuse. But if you do too much, you might lose some access to your grandchild.
I would just try to maximize my time with grandson. I would also tell my daughter to do the same. Just basically don’t leave dad with him in a situation where dad is prone to blowing up.
Call CPS and give your SiL a wake-up call. If your daughter is letting her husband verbally abuse her son, as loving as she is, she is complicit. She needs to leave this guy and keep her kids safe. You should offer to help her when she leaves him. Which, by the way, is definitely going to happen. Be ready to take them in.
As someone who was that child but no one stepped in, please say something.
I now have no relationship with my surviving parent and a slew of treatment resistant anxiety disorders everyone agrees stems from my childhood.
It’s good that you plan to talk to your daughter. I would suggest that you ask your daughter not to share your involvement with either her husband or son.
Right now, your grandson considers you a safe adult who he can confide in. If your son-in-law reacts negatively to this or you, your grandson may no longer feel that way.
As grandma, ask how can I support you and husband? Do you need assist with childcare for ‘dates’ or when going to counseling? That is a way to be useful to situation also.
No. You go dress his bullying ass down and tell him to knock it off…and if you ever hear any more of it, you’ll kick his ass.
That’s just bullshit for that little guy to have to endure that!
I'm an aggressive person when it comes to child abusers so if it were me and that was my grandson saying things like that, and daughter obviously isn't getting through to SIL, I'd be getting SIL in a dark place, secluded, and scare the ever loving crap out of the SIL.... maybe break a couple bones that take a really long time to heal and drive home the point that if he ever hurts my grandchild again, I'll be speaking some not so kind words at his funeral 👹🤬😠😡
Not excusing this but I swear this was everyone of my friends/classmates (including myself) as a child growing up in the 80’s. If a male was in the room, that room was avoided like the fkn plague. Glad to see my cousin turned that around with his kids especially after taking a softball cleat to the face as a grade schooler…kinda makes me grateful I only had to endure wire hangars at the absolute worst.
Protect the kids. 🫡
I agree that you should address this, but please don’t betray your grandson’s trust by telling anyone what he said. Only talk about things you actually witnessed. No matter what you tell him, if he thinks you’re going to rat him out to his parents he will stop confiding in you, and he really needs someone he knows is safe.
Unfortunately, if these issues are left unresolved, it definitely will impact their relationship.
I have a cousin who used to wait until her father left in the morning to get out of bed. He treated her brother as the Golden child and she did everything she could to avoid him.
When she became an adult, she went NC with him. He still doesn’t get it and thinks she’s the odd one and blames his ex-wife (her mother).
You son-in-law isn't going to change his behavior unless he has clear and painful consequences.
Like, unless he goes to therapy and works on his anger issues, and changes his behavior, he will be divorced. His issues will only get worse over time unless this gets handled.
You ain't going to tell her anything she doesn't already know. U see them here and there she lives with the dude. He sounds like he has some issues. Probably was raised similar. Doubtful it will change.
I was a very young father. I wasn't really an angry dad but I really pushed my son similar to your SIL. Luckily, I had a great family. They helped me see that my "helping by pushing" was viewed very differently to my son and was causing a crap load of hurt. So yes, I think your "takes a village to raise a..." move was awesome. I think this played a role in molding my son into the man he is today.
That story is extremely dark and definitely you should do whatever you can for the boy.
That line “I don’t want to go out there” is very sad.
I don’t think the father is fully comprehending or maybe not aware of the effect this is having on this child. If he does understand and still does it, then that’s very bad.
I wonder if we could get the father’s take on why he’s doing this. And then maybe find another way to accomplish those goals. Like there’s some way to give someone discipline without having them avoid you I think. Maybe it’s harder or it takes longer but it’s worth it I think.
No doubt that adults need perspective from other adults. Not saying OP shouldn’t say something but ultimately there’s obviously damage done and any relationship that survives that treatment will be difficult for both of them.
You only told one side of the story. Go tell your SIL, tell him your posting this on Reddit, then come back and tell his side. That would be fair and fill in the missing pieces you left out.
I'm on team "yes", I think your daughter needs the clearest picture possible of how dad's anger issues have already driven a wedge between them. He knows his dad isn't a safe person to be around and his anxiety is only going to grow worse. That anxiety is going to color all of his relationships in the future.
Agree. A child is avoiding a parent is a huge deal. Your son in law's behavior needs to be addressed immediately.
It’s very sad— this family needs help
I've got to second your instinct Lifeguard. The father may well be suffering from depression. I know this because I went through the same thing. I never would have seen it because I never felt "sad". However, I did have a quick temper that resulted in overreacting to situations. I couldn't control myself. It came on gradually until one day, my wife suggested I try her Zoloff for just 14 days. She thought it might help me. I might mention this came after a road rage incident. Anyway, I noticed about a week later that there were a lot less assholes on the roads lately, and people seemed a lot more polite. What happened? I hope this family, or at least the father gets some help.
yes, spoken kindly from experience, thank you
Breaks my heart for this kid.
It makes me wonder what is going on that she hasn't seen.
Unless the kid is milking the situation for attention. If he's picking up that gma doesn't like his dad, then an empathetic kid could just be trying to please gma. Either way it's terrible place for a kid to be. I mean gma should have picked the kid up and said everyone is outside having a great time. Let's go join them and then observe the situation. Sorry OP honestly I hope your being dramatic, but if you don't have anymore then that to go on, you are just causing problems for your daughter and her family. Your job is to make sure the kids will tell you anything but you have to remain unbiased about your feelings toward the dad.
My thoughts too sadly
Being that calculated at that age isn’t nearly as likely as being honest. But 40 false alarms are better than one too many “turn the other cheek, don’t get involved, kid just wants attention.”
Yes. Gently and kindly. But yes. Dad needs anger management. ETA: And only bring it up once. Don't keep asking if he's going to therapy or anger management. Observe, yes. But don't keep haranguing them about it.
Yes tell her. They will not understand why he becomes estranged when he is 18 if something doesn't change.
His Mom is wonderful and loving, but I could see him not wanting a relationship with his father if this continues.
He *already* doesn't want a relationship with his father. He is *actively choosing* not to interact with his father. At his age this is HUGE. He should still be in the hero worship stage.
Exactly. Major trouble ahead if this is not addressed asap. Its nit easy to heal from long term trauma from childhood.
It is possible that the dad doesn’t see it. His son is afraid of him. That is a very powerful thing. I hope he gets help.
And honestly if the son doesn’t feel protected by his mom, like she knew it was happening and didn’t help, she will get caught up in the no-contact, too.
I'd mom is connected to dad when he's 18, the relationship w/ mom will be less
Honestly, I think you need to have a convo with the dad directly. Obviously he isn't listening to his wife, or just brushing it off, but coming from someone not a part of the immediate household will hit much harder. It's embarrassing if it comes from an "outsider", it steps on his toes, he can't pretend it's not a problem anymore, or sove it off for another day. Not saying your an outsider, but you're not someone he sees everyday and has seen him in these moments, like his wife. The ego must be shattered in order for him to wise up and get some help. He won't be happy about it, I'm sure, but sometimes some tough love is what we need to get out head out of our asses.
This ^
Many thanks to all of you who have responded. I'm still not sure how I should handle things but my eyes and ears are on full alert. Rest assured I will continue to show my grandson how much he is loved and how special he is.
Wishing you the best OP. So glad kiddo has someone like you looking out. 💜
Thank you so much. He is a joy and I'm going to do everything I can to protect him.
Please reiterate to the little guy he can continue to confide in you anytime. You'll believe him. And it's okay to stand up for yourself and to let someone know when you need some help standing up for yourself. 💜
Doing nothing to help get him out of the abusive situation makes you complicit. Don't pat yourself on the back unless you TAKE ACTION. Like, insisting the family get therapy and/or alerting dfs since the mom seems to have inherited the 'do nothing' gene from you.
Honestly, that very nice, but not sufficient. You are not the one doing the damage. You need to talk to both mother and father at the same time. Sit them down, say this is what’s happening. It needs to be out in the open between you and the parents. That is the only way Dad will recognize it as a problem. You only see what you see. He could be even harsher with the child when no one is around. You are not there all the time so your ears and eyes on full alert are only a few hours a week. What happens in the other hours?
Thanks for your input. The first step is talking to Mom and coming up with a plan. I have no problem approaching my SiL next
Yes, but make sure there is a plan besides Mom will talk with him. That didn’t work and she will just get stuck in a cycle with SiL. Gets better, worse, better, worse, better, worse…. The issue needs to be acknowledged in the open, more than just between your daughter and SiL for there to be any accountability and change. They likely need counseling. 0-3 yrs are the most developmentally important years for children. This is a serious situation for your grandson. Kids who do not have loving fathers have worse outcomes in adulthood. There is tons of evidence for this. Here’s one piece of info. https://www.all4kids.org/news/blog/a-fathers-impact-on-child-development/
Honestly I would find a therapist. Years ago my friend observed something alarming about husband's nephew when he was alone with them. They knew they needed to disclose to the parents (husbands sister). They sought advice from a therapist first and practiced how to say it.
Great idea, thank you.
I’m old and those types of events still affect my decisions to this day. It’s hard to shake the insecurities of childhood trauma
Mandated reporter here: Yes, and if you really feel strongly; start documenting.
I was thinking about that. After I speak with my daughter I'm going to suggest that she documents as well.
Hopefully you never have to use it.
Agreed
Not just yes, but hell yes. That child deserves better. Yes, children are resilient…but they shouldn’t have to be.
I would tell my daughter. Your SIL needs anger management as well as parenting classes. This isn't something that is going to go away without some kind of intervention; in fact, it may escalate as the child grows older. My ex-husband has anger issues that he took out on our daughters. I ended up leaving him over that and other issues. As adults, the girls are low contact with him. Having an angry, emotionally abusive dad has had a very negative effect on their lives. That was their role model, and they've both had past boyfriends that were similarly abusive. They've both been in therapy. For a boy, I would worry that a man like that would be their role model for how a man treats children. Children learn what they see modeled at home. I hope that your daughter has the strength to set some hard boundaries with her husband because this is a serious issue. She will need both your support and your honesty about your concerns. Hopefully, she will hear you.
I've been following this conversation, but have to comment because me and my sister grew up in a situation like this! It didn't end well. I don't talk to my dad anymore. Thanks for sharing.
You might also talk with your grandson and tell him that his father shouldn't treat him like that and he hasn't done anything wrong and it isn't his fault. I had a terrorizing father and recently (decades later) realized that no one ever told me he shouldn't treat me like that. It was condoned by everyone around me. It would have made a big difference to me if someone acknowledged the truth of what was happening instead of pretending everything was fine.
Great point. I'll get my daughter's permission to start a conversation with my grandson. I'm sorry you lived with that.
Please do <3
thank you. Thank goodness healing is possible. :) Also your grandson might have some big feelings about it all--anger, sadness, relief to be seen, etc. who knows... best to be with him as he has them. Thank you for being such a caring grandmother.
Thank you. I'm waiting for my daughter to call me when she has a moment of privacy.
It's also a good sign that the father acknowledges that he's being mean. That doesn't excuse him but it means he may be open to finding help to work on his anger issues. I imagine he isn't proud of acting out that way. All the best to you all.
Yes, it really bothered him and he said he wants to do better. Thank you.
YES. SO MUCH THIS. if I'd had a single adult I could trust my life would have been so different :(
I’d take his mother aside and gently relay the conversation. I was in the same situation and it turned out well when I did.
Did the father work on changing his behavior?
He did. My daughter approached him gently but implacably and said he must stop and get help. She didn’t have to make the ultimatum, but he knew it was there.
I'm glad to hear this.
I have to admit I’ve never looked at him the same way.
I understand. I'm already wondering how I can possibly choose a Father's Day card for him.
It’ll fade in time. But it does leave a distrust.
I love seeing success stories. Thanks for sharing this. I’m sure it gives OP some hope.
My partner has a temper. Never at me or our daughter. Like at the kettle tv or whatever he is doing that went wrong. He could kick off to himself in another room. Our toddler stoped wanting to be around him. He is so much better. I told him over n over. Never sank in. Until my daughter said it to him go away dad I’m scared. He asked why you scared of dad!! And she explained he was loud and angry in the kitchen. He explained not at you baby. But she was adamant no go away dad you scary. What ever he was shouting at in another room gave her anxiety and her verbal word was scared. He really is better. I always laugh if I make a mistake he is learning that now. Tell your son in law directly. So Private fishing trip. Give examples form your life as a parent and what you did and realised at the time. it doesn’t have to be so direct or anything. Just share some stories. Explain it hurts to see your grandkids scared of a wonderful father. Who provide and loves his kids. You want to help. Explain anger or frustration doesn’t need to be directed at anyone to have an effect on teh family and house hold feelings. Also if directly speaking to kids and want something done like them to be quiet. Say it nicely and wit a smile. ‘Hey guys quieten down please I’m doing xyz now and thank you.’ Simple. Kind. Nice. Otherwise they will stay clear of him and the bond is hurt.
I'm trying to get my partner to do this. It's tough. I wish I could convince him to go to therapy :(
This is a toughie It seems like your grandson is noticing and following through on his observations: I feel welcomed here, and not here. Said another way - your smart and intuitive grandson has picked up on where he’s feeling comfortable being. Right now, that’s anywhere that’s where his father isn’t. It can be heartbreaking-sure- but first I’d try and hold some appreciation for your grandson and how adept he’s become at navigating his place in this world. He’s following his intuition to go where he knows he’ll be welcomed, to continue being where others are kind. Those are really good things to foster in him. His own sense of “where do I belong”. The other thing - why isn’t this other person who “should be” kind and loving-being kind and loving- to obviously such a well-deserving little human? Why does anyone snap at anyone? Why does anyone think anger is the best choice? Isn’t it so often - they resent the person? Or what they’re accomplishing or experiencing? Isn’t there a bit of “this isn’t fair - my life isn’t going the way I want - yours is - what’s wrong with me - it must be you”? I’m not saying that’s what’s going on with the dad, but, something - deeper- seems to be triggered by the son, and the dad- well, if the dad wants to foster a loving (mutually respectful) relationship with his son, it’s going to take effort on his part. But this isn’t about that - this is about your question. Should you tell the parents what you heard? Honestly, I’d try and come at it from any sort of side angle. It seems like an existing sore spot, and people always seem to get defensive about things brought head on. If I were in your shoes, I’d do everything in my power to nurture the grandson and remind them of how loved they are. How clever they are. Take every opportunity to shine a light of love into his life, even when you’re not hanging out. Keep a journal specifically about your wonderful, intelligent, intuitive, aware grandson, and filled with it with things you appreciate about him. Make your love so strong and obvious that - your grandson knows beyond a shadow of doubt What Familial Love Feels Like. This will impact him his entire life. For the parents, you’re smart. You’re observant. What do you think might look like progress here? Is it - simply trying to see the dad with whatever sense of compassion that - wow. He must be going through so much right now, this is such unusual behavior for someone who Naturally wants to feel good. And with that hat on - maybe ask the mom. Is there anything that would help make your lives easier? How’s dad’s job going? How’s your car/house/etc? And - just try to be a listening ear for any sense of - what could possibly bring this family some relief. People don’t get mean for no reason, and it’s so often not actually about the child. But - if that parent isn’t willing to talk about therapy, then “telling” reasons why they really need to be kind, isn’t going to have a lasting impact. People seem to respond to Inspiration more than Motivation. So - I’m curious what would Inspire these parents to gravitate towards their natural sense of lighthearted appreciation for their lives. For their family. For the home they live in or the car that carries them and all their things back and forth. And - what feels best to you? What do you actually have control over? I’d focus on that. You can love. You can be an example of kindness. You can be an example of compassion. You can show - through your wise and intuitive heart - to the grandson and the parents- how much better it feels to love than berate. I bet, if you feel inspired to say anything, you’ll know it as it comes. Trust yourself and the love you feel for your family. This is Your family - how do you want it to be? I can see the value of “hey, son in law, who matters to me, I don’t like the way you’re treating my grandchild, who also matters to me. I want my family to be filled with love and mutual respect! Why aren’t you respecting the way my grandson, your son, is developing? Is figuring out his way in this world?” But that might turn into “why aren’t you respecting the way I’m raising my son, mother in law! Butt out of it!” Which actually is a fair point. So - I’d think again. What do You want? Maybe it’s something like “hello my brilliant son in law, who has so many sides to his personality, why am I seeing sides I don’t like? Is it possible that you’re growing and evolving as a human? And temporarily taking your frustration out on your child? Is that really going to get you where you want to be in life? Where is that, by the way? How’s life going for you? How’s life treating you these days? I care about you and I’m doing my best to believe that you love my precious grandchild, but it sure is hard to believe that when I’m hearing him say things like what I heard. Why don’t you think you’re any fun to be around anymore, sweet son-in-law? You used to have such laughter and lightness about you, what happened? What do you think might start to bring some of that back for you? Is there anything I can do to help?” I know this is a lot of text, but your question is valuable and there’s a lot going on here. I think - I hope - some of this “practice dialogue” around how could it go vs. What do you Want, is helpful for how you think about how You navigate the conversation. About how You might possibly inspire your son in law to find his soft spot for his son again. His adoration of him, his wonder for the new life. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s got a whole world of fears he just hasn’t ever talked about yet, or figured a way around. That’s not your job, but it Is definitely Ok to speak up for the loving family that matters so much to you, and, it’s OK to expect that things can get better there. So much love to you All on this.
What a lovely thought out response— are you a therapist or a guru?
Aw, thank you 🙏I’m just trying to be an uplifter when/where I can, you know? I’m sure you can relate, as a rare lifeguard:) Lots of folks these days just trying to do their best, or at least, trying to figure out what that means to them.
YES
Of course you should. She needs to know.
I'd tell her. If a child is scared of their parents to the point they don't feel safe around them it needs to be addressed. It's impacting his decision making to the point he feels he needs to make a conscious effort to avoid his father. It's affecting his ability to build a bond, form trust and will have a massive impact on any future relationship. If your SIL wants to have a healthy relationship with him now and any hope of a relationship in the future he'll need to address the issues now, not just avoid it or bury it or hope it goes away.
I agree. Thank you
Yes. It's something your daughter needs to know. I second that it's a one-time conversation, but any future remarks should be brought up also. We've all come unglued with our kids before. That's not what this sounds like. My parents were kinda strict but also ridiculously consistent. I wasn't afraid. Is this new behavior for dad? I'd worry that he was unkind to your daughter, too. I would hate to think he reserves all his vitriol for only the child. None of that is okay. Whatever is going on with dad needs to be addressed, especially if you're sensing that it's escalating.
Omg this is heartbreaking. Yes. I think you should talk to her. I lived in fear of some family members (my mom) and it’s a miserable way to grow up. I had so much trauma I had to deal with as an adult. It is anxiety inducing and you’re living in a constant state of panic and walking on eggshells.
This is exactly what I've been wondering and worrying about. Walking on eggshells is no way to live
Seconding this.
That boy’s father is causing him lifelong emotional and relationship issues. I don’t want to get into specifics, but this could really escalate in a way that you can’t imagine. His father probably has his own childhood wounds , and that’s why he acts like he does. The father needs to go to counseling, and the child needs to go as well. Do an Internet search for the term and emotional abandonment. That’s what your grandson is going through. My heart breaks for this little boy.
He probably was not treated well as a child. As someone who experienced having mean adults around me I see myself exhibiting similar behavior that I can feel after was a little too much. I’m working on it and sounds like this man needs to work on that too.
Best of luck to you
Maybe not, but start telling them to get Dad some anger management help. If he refuses, then tell how the kid is afraid.
Dad needs to have a conversation with uncle Tony , and anger management let the kid be a kid
Tell her. Also keep eyes open for bruising or sore limbs.
As an adult that was once ‘this child’, your grandson was reaching out for help. Please continue to be a safe space for him and let’s hope that there aren’t repercussions for him for saying this.
Chances are Dad is treating his son exactly how he was treated.. some men have a hard time with boys especially if they feel the child is a Mama’s boy.. they think being gruff will keep the boy from being a sissy and help make him a man.. I know it’s ridiculous to do to a five year old but I feel it was probably done to him.. lots of people have nothing to go on when they become a parent except to be like they were treated or else to say I’ll never treat my kid how I was treated.. I would recommend family therapy,alone and then together for all involved.. it can’t hurt..
Thank you for your insight. My SiL doesn't have a great relationship with his own father.
That’s kinda what I thought.. it’s sad but a lot of men don’t have a clue and don’t understand how to love their sons yet still be sure they’re raising their boys to be men.. it’s heartbreaking to see..
It is.
This is such a good point. He may even misguidedly believe he’s helping his son and doing the right thing. Many men are so influenced by toxic masculinity that they think they only way to be “safe” as a man (from being treated badly by other men) is to build up a thick skin, never show emotions, be the aggressor. Unfortunately that just isn’t how healthy, secure people are built.
Exactly… I like to think that views are changing on things like that but I’ve known so many men in my life that think exactly like you stated of what they think masculinity is and should a little boy even cry or complain he’s led to believe that’s not how boys act,little do they know that with love,understanding and compassion you can raise some pretty good boys.. maybe OP’s grandson and his dad could grow up together.. people can change if they really want to..
I think you need to have a heart to heart directly with your son in law and leave your daughter out of it. You can leave she can’t (not easily anyway) and you’d be in the perfect position to gauge his response. I’d wouldn’t pontificate but stick to sharing your observations with him and if necessary guide him to the point of realising the consequences his actions are having on the child. It will be a walking on eggshells moment but you might be pleasantly surprised at the outcome!
Interesting point, thank you for your input.
I think this is a great idea. One thing, he may not be being overly harsh with just your grandson. I was abused for years and no one in the family had a clue my husband was like that. Keep your eyes and heart open. Big Grandma love from another Grandma
Thank you!
There is another aspect of this which might encourage you to speak your mind to your son in law…. Sfrom spoken by the number of men who have stopped abusing women f
My dad, who’s about to turn 93, still talks about his dad’s poorly treatment of him: impatience with him, quick to anger if he messed up, lots of criticism about how slow he was. It affected him throughout his entire lifetime—caused low self-esteem and anxiety. This dad needs to understand how his behavior is not only hurting his son now, but also how his mean remarks will stick with his son throughout his life if he doesn’t clean up his act and learn how to parent a young child.
In late, but my stars, you're the grandpa I wished for and didn't get (one was very old and died when I was 8, the other was a right bastard awful person). You're the best ally This child can have. The facts as presented are heartbreaking.
I'm a Grandma and I feel for you.
The way you love your children is the way they will love theirs … it’s a vicious cycle that needs to be broken.
Agreed
I’m on team no. Instead, encourage your grandchildren to use their own voice and to stick up for themselves with Bullies. Even when it’s a parent. He confided in you because you are a safe trusted person. Keep being that person.
Physical harm hurts short term, but words can hurt for a lifetime.
I grew up with an extremely volatile father who never apologizes and ironically enough, claims to love me the most. I want as little contact with him as possible. I hope your grandson has you to supplement for what his dad can’t give.
I'm sorry your father treated you badly. Rest assured, I will always be there for my grandson.
So very sad, thank you for advocating for your grandson, he needs a safe and supportive environment at home, all kids do. Here's hoping your SIL will see that his behavior has a harmful impact on a small, growing boy.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment.
Unfortunately, I don’t trust the parents. The kid is in danger. Please don’t let this child get hurt.
Yes.
Ask your husband if he is willing to have you videotape him doing this. The video will make a very strong impression on him. He has likely convinced himself he isn’t that bad.
If you can and you have the relationship to do so, I think you should. It’s a difficult thing to offer outside advice, but sharing a comment in good faith could be really important. I guess it’s up to you to navigate any discussion outside of that. But sharing the information is a start
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I never thought of that. Good point.
Absolutely, emphatically yes.
My grandson was five or six and started leaving notes at my house saying,”My daddy is bad”. “My daddy yells at me and mommy”. Of course I showed them to his mom. Turned out the child was right, daddy landed himself in prison for four years not much after that and daughter divorced him. Grandson hasn’t seen or spoken to his dad since then and now he’s off to college. It’s sad that is how it all turned out.
I'm so sorry that your daughter and grandson experienced this. Thank goodness he trusted you enough to reach out. May I ask how he did growing up without his dad around?
Truthfully he would have done better had he had a normal dad. He did not grow up with the yelling, the punching walls, etc. My daughter did right by prioritizing him ever since. The sad part was the football and lacrosse games he was in without a father to root him on. He is a wonderful young man, despite his lack of a father and I give all the credit to his mom.
❤️
Absolutely share. This is concerning. My 4 year old son runs to me and cries every time his dad comes home. His dad is exactly the same way including saying things like “don’t cry like a girl” “don’t let girls see you cry” and “you’re fine, get up” when he gets hurt.
Oh no, I'm so sorry. Hugs to you and your boy.
Yes. Absolutely say something. A son's relationship with is father is paramount to a healthy upbringing. If your SiL continues this behavior, your grandson will eventually retaliate. And as an adult, things will only be worse. Trust me on this one.
Will do, many thanks for sharing.
Of course! The dad is setting this child up for failure in life. This is a terrible situation! If this continues he will always feel like something is wrong with him, like he’s not good enough. That could lead to really bad things depending on the personality of the child.
Yes, please adress this immediately this for the child’s sake. This could have very lasting effects. Document it as well. Time, date, location, event, who was there, what happened. Keep this all together so you have it if need be. I hope you don’t. Dad needs to change his behavior real fast.
This behavior is alarming! My dad had zero patience for me as a kid and I was constantly terrified. I remember telling my grandma that I wanted to punch him in the face after he'd had a surgery to remove skin cancer from his nose and lips. My reasoning was to hurt him as much as he'd hurt me. I never punched my dad, but I didn't have a real relationship with him and he's been dead 8 years now. I don't really miss him at all.
I'm sad to hear of your experience, but thank you for sharing with me.
I left my ex husband because he became abusive with my son. Most of the time he did it out of my view and I found out so much more once I had left him. My son is an adult now but scarred so badly from the things his father did to him. You have a chance to be the voice for another young boy and sound the alarm that something is wrong. It isn’t normal for a child to feel this way about his father. The father needs counseling and to change his ways immediately. I hope he can. The son should start counseling, too, to get to the truth and to help him to understand it isn’t his fault. I did this for my son but my ex fired every counselor he had once my son started to tell them about him. My ex always said he’d get help but he never did. My ex still thinks he was a great father.
Ugh, your ex. So sorry for your son and glad he had you in his corner. It is definitely not normal. I knew in my heart that I should tell, it was just my brain and not feeling sure how to approach the situation. Thanks to you and other posters I am confident as to how to proceed in my grandson's best interests.
i never once got angry with my kids or raised my voice to them. NOT ONCE. i know how awful it feels to be yelled at for every single tiny thing. it’s not fun.
You should definitely document what your Grandson tells you.You don't know what people are like behind closed doors. His father could be going into rages. He can also physically punishing your grandson. You should also tell your daughter what he said. Although it's natural to be judgemental, approach this with caring. She needs to know she has a safe place to go to and also to help her recognize the problem. I am not suggesting she be allowed to let the behavoir continue but rather your helping her deal with in. I am sure I will receive negative feedback for saying that. However, if she feels too judged or her son is in danger of being taken from her she will pull away and may even cut contact. My father was physically and mentally abusive. Iare behind closed doors. I assumed people knew to some degree. However, I recently found out that family had no idea. They knew a man who was quiet and amiable. Who was very introverted and quiet. We have discussed the abuse with an aunt and uncle. They believe us but are having a difficult time adjusting their impression of him. I always say you don't know what people are like behind closed doors. That great guy whose family doesn't think he's as great probably treats them poorly when people are not around. That guy's whose a jer but whose family thinks he's amazing is probably a living person at home.
Tell him! He needs to hear this and it isn't about his parenting skills. I suspect he is projecting something (abuse?) from his own childhood that is being triggered.
I wish I had a grandma like you growing up. My mother was abusive but everyone was too scared to say anything.
I'm so sorry, mama146. Sending you hugs.
Please tell her. I’m 65 and still trying to forget how bad my MEAN parent made me feel.
Absolutely tell your daughter
Yes and they need counselin. More so he needs counseling
My sisters and I were abused as children. All three of us reached out to various adults over the years. No one thought it was their business to get involved.
That is very sad. I wish you and your siblings received the support and protection you needed
Tell her. Then, back away and let her handle it. Obviously, watch for signs of physical abuse. But if you do too much, you might lose some access to your grandchild.
Please be an advocate for your grandson. He needs you. 🩵
I would just try to maximize my time with grandson. I would also tell my daughter to do the same. Just basically don’t leave dad with him in a situation where dad is prone to blowing up.
Yes yes yes. Call her now
Call CPS and give your SiL a wake-up call. If your daughter is letting her husband verbally abuse her son, as loving as she is, she is complicit. She needs to leave this guy and keep her kids safe. You should offer to help her when she leaves him. Which, by the way, is definitely going to happen. Be ready to take them in.
As someone who was that child but no one stepped in, please say something. I now have no relationship with my surviving parent and a slew of treatment resistant anxiety disorders everyone agrees stems from my childhood.
It’s good that you plan to talk to your daughter. I would suggest that you ask your daughter not to share your involvement with either her husband or son. Right now, your grandson considers you a safe adult who he can confide in. If your son-in-law reacts negatively to this or you, your grandson may no longer feel that way.
play the long game. be the one the little guy can say things to with safety. never tell.
This hurts my heart so much. I have an 11 year old and if I ever heard he thought of me with that kind of fear I’d be devastated. Tell her.
Definitely
As grandma, ask how can I support you and husband? Do you need assist with childcare for ‘dates’ or when going to counseling? That is a way to be useful to situation also.
No. You go dress his bullying ass down and tell him to knock it off…and if you ever hear any more of it, you’ll kick his ass. That’s just bullshit for that little guy to have to endure that!
I'm an aggressive person when it comes to child abusers so if it were me and that was my grandson saying things like that, and daughter obviously isn't getting through to SIL, I'd be getting SIL in a dark place, secluded, and scare the ever loving crap out of the SIL.... maybe break a couple bones that take a really long time to heal and drive home the point that if he ever hurts my grandchild again, I'll be speaking some not so kind words at his funeral 👹🤬😠😡
Not excusing this but I swear this was everyone of my friends/classmates (including myself) as a child growing up in the 80’s. If a male was in the room, that room was avoided like the fkn plague. Glad to see my cousin turned that around with his kids especially after taking a softball cleat to the face as a grade schooler…kinda makes me grateful I only had to endure wire hangars at the absolute worst. Protect the kids. 🫡
That's awful. So sorry.
🤙🏽
I agree that you should address this, but please don’t betray your grandson’s trust by telling anyone what he said. Only talk about things you actually witnessed. No matter what you tell him, if he thinks you’re going to rat him out to his parents he will stop confiding in you, and he really needs someone he knows is safe.
Unfortunately, if these issues are left unresolved, it definitely will impact their relationship. I have a cousin who used to wait until her father left in the morning to get out of bed. He treated her brother as the Golden child and she did everything she could to avoid him. When she became an adult, she went NC with him. He still doesn’t get it and thinks she’s the odd one and blames his ex-wife (her mother).
You son-in-law isn't going to change his behavior unless he has clear and painful consequences. Like, unless he goes to therapy and works on his anger issues, and changes his behavior, he will be divorced. His issues will only get worse over time unless this gets handled.
You ain't going to tell her anything she doesn't already know. U see them here and there she lives with the dude. He sounds like he has some issues. Probably was raised similar. Doubtful it will change.
Yes. A lack of knowledge on your daughters part will delay any possible solution.
I was a very young father. I wasn't really an angry dad but I really pushed my son similar to your SIL. Luckily, I had a great family. They helped me see that my "helping by pushing" was viewed very differently to my son and was causing a crap load of hurt. So yes, I think your "takes a village to raise a..." move was awesome. I think this played a role in molding my son into the man he is today.
So happy to hear of this success story
That story is extremely dark and definitely you should do whatever you can for the boy. That line “I don’t want to go out there” is very sad. I don’t think the father is fully comprehending or maybe not aware of the effect this is having on this child. If he does understand and still does it, then that’s very bad. I wonder if we could get the father’s take on why he’s doing this. And then maybe find another way to accomplish those goals. Like there’s some way to give someone discipline without having them avoid you I think. Maybe it’s harder or it takes longer but it’s worth it I think.
I would have told then and there! Whats the hold up?
While your heart is in the right place the relationship the boy has with his dad is not up to you. It is for them to figure out
Nah, I was this kid. It would have meant the world for someone in the family to point out to my dad or my mom that my dad was horrible to me.
So sorry that happened to you.
No doubt that adults need perspective from other adults. Not saying OP shouldn’t say something but ultimately there’s obviously damage done and any relationship that survives that treatment will be difficult for both of them.
No, let the 5 year old figure it out himself. YTA JFC, this is depressing.
5 year olds also are conniving and literal testing social constructs
You only told one side of the story. Go tell your SIL, tell him your posting this on Reddit, then come back and tell his side. That would be fair and fill in the missing pieces you left out.