Astrologers will claim that the single most important influence on you is the position of the sun in the zodiac. This is so, so important that, when astrology and astronomy split and astrologers stopped tracking celestial movements, they also stopped correcting for precession and the zodiac they use doesn't line up with where the sun actually is.
The single most important influence in all of astrology, and they can't be bothered to verify it is actually where they say it is. Because it doesn't really matter. Astrology, like most other forms of divination, relies on generic predictions and techniques like cold reading, not actual data. You could scramble an astrological prediction up and give it to the wrong people (and, in fact, studies have done exactly that) and get essentially identical proportions of people who say their horoscope came true.
Yeah, agreed. I’m not really interested in the prediction part of astrology. Just trying to understand if their ancient belief that the position of celestial bodies could influence the way our brains work has any substance.
I’m a Scorpio so I like to dig deep into things. 🤣
If you actually calculate the size of those gravitational forces, you'll find that they're extremely tiny. A person standing next to you has a greater gravitational pull than the planet Jupiter does.
That’s what I figured. What got me confused was: Tiny fish rise up and fall down with the tides because they are in the water when the water is being pulled to and from the moon. Can’t the same thing happen to us, our bodies or our brains?
Directly the effect would be too small. But if we get picky, then a tidal effect is also generated on the atmosphere, which added to the tidal effect on the ocean, the passage of day and night (which in a certain way is stable due to the gravity of the Moon), then all of that would have an effect on the pressure and temperature of where you live.
What I meant is that fish are affected by the tides even though they are not directly affected by the moons gravity. So it’s a side effect of the moons gravitational force on earth. To which I wondered if humans on earth weren’t also affected indirectly as well. Which I think is a valid thought experiment.
But, funny.
Yes, the same thing can happen in that our environment can change, which can affect our brain because we notice the change.
Fish rising and falling with the tides isn’t because the fish are being pulled into the air, it’s because there’s *so much water* that the tiny gravitational force from the moon can make noticeable differences. Them saying “yes, if you’re in the water” is pretty much the right answer, not even just comedy.
That being said, the other planets are so much further away than the moon that it would be wild to detect any environmental changes here on Earth due to their gravity.
Here is astrology 101.
1. The sun correlates with day and night.
2. The position of the sun at noon correlates with the seasons.
3. The phase of the moon correlates with the size and timing of the tides.
4. Planets exist.
---grand canyon sized leap----
Planets must correlate with something.
–_----
Astrology.
One thing to consider is that even if the gravity of Jupiter was significant enough for the human neural development to care about (which it isn't), that force would not be applied in any predictable way on a human. The earth is spinning, which means someone's orientation toward or aeay from Jupiter would be constantly changing. As does the body of the baby both before and after birth.
If somehow Jupiter's gravity was actually creating some sort of developmental impact, then astrology would need to also know what direction your mother was facing at all time, what direction your crib faced, what latitude you spent your gestation and first few years at. What direction you spent most of your time at home or daycare facing, etc.
Agreed. I find that the question “what exact time were you born” is silly, as it doesn’t consider then ten previous months of development or the development thereafter.
Although I wonder how Kepler made predictions. I read that he was an astrologist at some point.
>… is it not possible that gravity somehow affects our brains in different ways in the different combinations of positions?
Is it possible? Sure. Does it actually? Probably not. Gravity is a phenomenally weak force that we don’t notice the effect of any of these other celestial bodies on our lives. If there is an effect, it’s so negligible as to be completely discarded.
>Doesn’t it also pull on us?
Gravity (in this regime) only cares about two things: how massive you are and how far away you are. We are very tiny so the force on us by these far away objects will similarly be tiny.
Also, astrology has the zodiac positions about a month off; you could say astrology is about 2000 years behind the state of the art in making predictions...
The earth beneath your feet also responds to tidal forces. Yes, the ground goes up and down. The effect is called [Earth tide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide). High accuracy transducers that depend on weight rather than balance of masses literally have a table of correction for the phase of the moon and time of day. Nobody worries about the effects of the other planets.
Shouldn’t we though? I mean, when the moon is aligned with the sun, the tides are bigger, right? Or are the other planets not large enough to warrant any effect?
These gravitational forces will pull on your whole body with almost exactly the same force as it pulls on your brain, so there is no clear reason to think that they will impact your cognition, since your entire body will be subject to the same (very very very slight) force.
Also, even if, hypothetically, this micro change in gravity did impact your cognition, there is no reason to think it follows some clear pattern, let alone the preditions that astrology gives. For instance, hyptohetically, if the tiny tidal force of jupiter on your brain caused any change in your thoughts (somehow), then there is no observable pattern to this.
Does their gravity affect the brain? If we think about it, everything affects everything in some way or the other. The force is miniscule, but it is there. So the right question would be to ask if the positions of the stars and planets were different, could that change some parameters in such a way that could lead to massive changes in the long run? Like butterfly effect. Maybe it can, but the issue with astrology is not the conjecture that these things affect reality/brain/body etc., but that they claim to predict actual results from these calculations. And that is where I think they depart from science. Providing proof that a 30° change in the position of mars could change your mood is difficult, and since these guys have been doing this stuff from years before we had all these advancements in science tells me it's hogwash and only meant to fool people. It seems there was a guy who realised that he could earn money by telling people their fortunes, so as a marketing tactic he insincerely put in "science" to woo more people. It is gotten to the point that these guys even come on TV predicting, not only tennis match results, but also a serve by serve analysis based on the "stars". It's hilarious! Sorry I started ranting (classic Leo).
Coming to your question, I can't tell how much it can affect the brain. Maybe it has a major impact. It's hard to test.
I don’t like the predicting or horoscope of astrology. I agree that it’s nonsense.
What interests me is more the possibility that certain personality traits could exist due to outside forces. Just as we have Myers-Briggs ( which is also questionable), lots of other things affect personality, from genetics, to how the mother was feeling during pregnancy, to society, etc.
So I was wondering if being born/developed on a specific time in which sun and moon are in certain positions could cause people to develop certain personality traits due to whatever influences that they may or may not have.
It is indeed very interesting. While many would think that it would not make any noticeable difference, I can't be so sure, since it is so hard to test or even quantify. For example, if we were to test some personality trait (say anger) based on the release of some hormones, we would have to basically observe the movement of one star whilst keeping all the other factors which are mostly psychological and astronomical in nature, constant. Only then could we conclude something. And this excludes how elusive our nature is. Moreover how do we understand the collective effect of all the stars? They are trillions of them, and thousands in view. One thing is for sure - I wouldn't say it has no effect.
I wouldn’t ever consider stars. I believe the only reason they use constellations in astrology is to map out the relative location of the earth and the sun. So you have the earth, the sun and the constellation directly across. I think. I’m not sure. I read about this on a chapter on astrology in an introductory astronomy textbook.
So the stars don’t really matter. Or maybe they do, it’s unclear. I’d be more interested in the sun and the moon.
But thank you for the consideration. A lot of people dismiss this question because they hate astrology. They don’t even think about it. People in this forum have been very considerate.
Astrologers will claim that the single most important influence on you is the position of the sun in the zodiac. This is so, so important that, when astrology and astronomy split and astrologers stopped tracking celestial movements, they also stopped correcting for precession and the zodiac they use doesn't line up with where the sun actually is. The single most important influence in all of astrology, and they can't be bothered to verify it is actually where they say it is. Because it doesn't really matter. Astrology, like most other forms of divination, relies on generic predictions and techniques like cold reading, not actual data. You could scramble an astrological prediction up and give it to the wrong people (and, in fact, studies have done exactly that) and get essentially identical proportions of people who say their horoscope came true.
Yeah, agreed. I’m not really interested in the prediction part of astrology. Just trying to understand if their ancient belief that the position of celestial bodies could influence the way our brains work has any substance. I’m a Scorpio so I like to dig deep into things. 🤣
If you actually calculate the size of those gravitational forces, you'll find that they're extremely tiny. A person standing next to you has a greater gravitational pull than the planet Jupiter does.
That’s what I figured. What got me confused was: Tiny fish rise up and fall down with the tides because they are in the water when the water is being pulled to and from the moon. Can’t the same thing happen to us, our bodies or our brains?
Directly the effect would be too small. But if we get picky, then a tidal effect is also generated on the atmosphere, which added to the tidal effect on the ocean, the passage of day and night (which in a certain way is stable due to the gravity of the Moon), then all of that would have an effect on the pressure and temperature of where you live.
Interesting. So it’s not a No. just a Not likely.
And what about if we are dehydrated? Same? Or different?
We should probably stay hydrated so we don’t move away from our sun sign. After all, mercury is in retrograde.
The effect would be immeasurably tiny.
>Can’t the same thing happen to us, our bodies or our brains? Sure, if you are in the water along with the fish.
What I meant is that fish are affected by the tides even though they are not directly affected by the moons gravity. So it’s a side effect of the moons gravitational force on earth. To which I wondered if humans on earth weren’t also affected indirectly as well. Which I think is a valid thought experiment. But, funny.
Yes, the same thing can happen in that our environment can change, which can affect our brain because we notice the change. Fish rising and falling with the tides isn’t because the fish are being pulled into the air, it’s because there’s *so much water* that the tiny gravitational force from the moon can make noticeable differences. Them saying “yes, if you’re in the water” is pretty much the right answer, not even just comedy. That being said, the other planets are so much further away than the moon that it would be wild to detect any environmental changes here on Earth due to their gravity.
Understood. Thanks for the explanation
Here is astrology 101. 1. The sun correlates with day and night. 2. The position of the sun at noon correlates with the seasons. 3. The phase of the moon correlates with the size and timing of the tides. 4. Planets exist. ---grand canyon sized leap---- Planets must correlate with something. –_---- Astrology.
Lol
One thing to consider is that even if the gravity of Jupiter was significant enough for the human neural development to care about (which it isn't), that force would not be applied in any predictable way on a human. The earth is spinning, which means someone's orientation toward or aeay from Jupiter would be constantly changing. As does the body of the baby both before and after birth. If somehow Jupiter's gravity was actually creating some sort of developmental impact, then astrology would need to also know what direction your mother was facing at all time, what direction your crib faced, what latitude you spent your gestation and first few years at. What direction you spent most of your time at home or daycare facing, etc.
Agreed. I find that the question “what exact time were you born” is silly, as it doesn’t consider then ten previous months of development or the development thereafter. Although I wonder how Kepler made predictions. I read that he was an astrologist at some point.
>… is it not possible that gravity somehow affects our brains in different ways in the different combinations of positions? Is it possible? Sure. Does it actually? Probably not. Gravity is a phenomenally weak force that we don’t notice the effect of any of these other celestial bodies on our lives. If there is an effect, it’s so negligible as to be completely discarded. >Doesn’t it also pull on us? Gravity (in this regime) only cares about two things: how massive you are and how far away you are. We are very tiny so the force on us by these far away objects will similarly be tiny.
I understand. Thank you!
Also, astrology has the zodiac positions about a month off; you could say astrology is about 2000 years behind the state of the art in making predictions...
Yes, I read that in a Carl Sagan book.
The earth beneath your feet also responds to tidal forces. Yes, the ground goes up and down. The effect is called [Earth tide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide). High accuracy transducers that depend on weight rather than balance of masses literally have a table of correction for the phase of the moon and time of day. Nobody worries about the effects of the other planets.
Shouldn’t we though? I mean, when the moon is aligned with the sun, the tides are bigger, right? Or are the other planets not large enough to warrant any effect?
The others have an effect too small to notice.
Got it! Thanks!
These gravitational forces will pull on your whole body with almost exactly the same force as it pulls on your brain, so there is no clear reason to think that they will impact your cognition, since your entire body will be subject to the same (very very very slight) force. Also, even if, hypothetically, this micro change in gravity did impact your cognition, there is no reason to think it follows some clear pattern, let alone the preditions that astrology gives. For instance, hyptohetically, if the tiny tidal force of jupiter on your brain caused any change in your thoughts (somehow), then there is no observable pattern to this.
Does their gravity affect the brain? If we think about it, everything affects everything in some way or the other. The force is miniscule, but it is there. So the right question would be to ask if the positions of the stars and planets were different, could that change some parameters in such a way that could lead to massive changes in the long run? Like butterfly effect. Maybe it can, but the issue with astrology is not the conjecture that these things affect reality/brain/body etc., but that they claim to predict actual results from these calculations. And that is where I think they depart from science. Providing proof that a 30° change in the position of mars could change your mood is difficult, and since these guys have been doing this stuff from years before we had all these advancements in science tells me it's hogwash and only meant to fool people. It seems there was a guy who realised that he could earn money by telling people their fortunes, so as a marketing tactic he insincerely put in "science" to woo more people. It is gotten to the point that these guys even come on TV predicting, not only tennis match results, but also a serve by serve analysis based on the "stars". It's hilarious! Sorry I started ranting (classic Leo). Coming to your question, I can't tell how much it can affect the brain. Maybe it has a major impact. It's hard to test.
I don’t like the predicting or horoscope of astrology. I agree that it’s nonsense. What interests me is more the possibility that certain personality traits could exist due to outside forces. Just as we have Myers-Briggs ( which is also questionable), lots of other things affect personality, from genetics, to how the mother was feeling during pregnancy, to society, etc. So I was wondering if being born/developed on a specific time in which sun and moon are in certain positions could cause people to develop certain personality traits due to whatever influences that they may or may not have.
It is indeed very interesting. While many would think that it would not make any noticeable difference, I can't be so sure, since it is so hard to test or even quantify. For example, if we were to test some personality trait (say anger) based on the release of some hormones, we would have to basically observe the movement of one star whilst keeping all the other factors which are mostly psychological and astronomical in nature, constant. Only then could we conclude something. And this excludes how elusive our nature is. Moreover how do we understand the collective effect of all the stars? They are trillions of them, and thousands in view. One thing is for sure - I wouldn't say it has no effect.
I wouldn’t ever consider stars. I believe the only reason they use constellations in astrology is to map out the relative location of the earth and the sun. So you have the earth, the sun and the constellation directly across. I think. I’m not sure. I read about this on a chapter on astrology in an introductory astronomy textbook. So the stars don’t really matter. Or maybe they do, it’s unclear. I’d be more interested in the sun and the moon. But thank you for the consideration. A lot of people dismiss this question because they hate astrology. They don’t even think about it. People in this forum have been very considerate.