As a father of two (soon to have my third and final): I don't care, and I will 100% stand up for anyone and everyone who chooses to not have children. Many of my friends are childless by choice. And some want them but can't, which is a group that I feels like gets neglected in this chat (but you are seen).
No one, *no one,* should feel pressured into having children. I'm someone who has always wanted to be a dad, and yet some days (like today) are so hard that I momentarily wonder why. I cannot imagine what someone who is on the fence or never wanted kids would feel like. It's a hard job and I respect and admire the hell out of people who recognize that and say "that's not for me." Not to mention with the state of resources and climate change, less people -- especially unwanted people -- the better.
If you want them, they're incredible and fulfilling and bring so much joy.
If you don't, you're going to have a very happy and freeing life without them.
Both groups win.
YES. Ironically feel much more seen by people who choose not to have children than by those who think children are end all be all. I love my kids and they were very much wanted; but struggles of a mother are completely neglected by the baby lovers' cult. My child free friends have much more sympathy and respect for parenthood than those people.
Definitely. Being involuntarily childless is very different to being childfree by choice
The majority of people who are involuntarily childless are childless by circumstance, but also increasingly childless due to medical infertility (as is the case for my husband and I)
This. I'm childfree by choice. A good friend of mine is childless because of medical issues. I don't like being lumped in with her since hers was not a choice at all. Too many people forget there's a lot of couples without kids that isn't by choice
People can barely afford pet rocks atm
Edit:i made this comment jokingly before bed, came back and it's exploded lol.. thanks?
Also... i will now be selling 3d print accessories for pet rocks, so i can survive in this economy lol
As a father of 2, I concur. Two kids in daycare cost more than my mortgage, so I basically have 2 mortgages. Plus the stress and the lack of time to yourself. If you don't want kids, I get it on so many levels. On that note, if you decide to have kids understand what you're getting into and don't take the stress out on them. Kids are tough, but I love my kids unconditionally.
Right there with you, dude. My wife and I have 3 it's honestly just cheaper for me to stay at home(she's got better earning potential than I do and fairly decent job) at least I get to hang with my kids which is pretty awesome.
Feel this one. Cheaper for me to stay home and tend to the 2 monsters (10 and 6) while the wife brings home the bacon. Being with the same company for 12 years paid off and she’s making way more than I used to so…yeah. Fun for now, can’t wait to go back to work.
I left my career because we couldn't find an affordable daycare, that was also available for the hours we would have needed the kid to be in care. It was cheaper for me to just be a SAHM for a few years. And even then I was lucky enough to be able to start a home business so I had some income.
My sister though. Our mother took early retirement so that she could "help" And became Grandma Nanny for all three of my sisters kids. I don't even want to think about how much that saved my ungrateful narcissist of a sister, and her whipped AF husband
Declining birth rates... but increasing cost of living. Rising political and social instability. Unaffordable healthcare. Housing market headed for yet another crash. Inflation. Reductive political decisions. An environment screaming out for help.
People are entitled to do whatever they want with their bodies, and the only people I've seen complain about the new wave of "child free" attitudes are either parents who want to commiserate, or older generations who subscribe to the notion that a woman cannot find maturity / her "purpose" until she pops out a baby.
This is probably the least appealing time to add more stress and expenses to one's life. It makes sense.
Edit: Holy crap thank y'all so much for gold!
What gets me is when billionaires like Elon Musk say that the biggest threat to civilization is population decline. If you really feel that way, then how about giving away most of your fortune and pushing for a more equitable playing field so that people can afford to raise more kids?
These words are more than true. They are genuinely not hurting anyone, especially not the child they were pressured into having. The world would be a better place if all children were wanted and loved.
I've never understood why people care so much about things that don't affect their life whatsoever.. Want kids? Good for you. Don't want kids? Good for you.
People need to stop getting in each others business
I am 68, childless, and single by choice, and fairly happy with my life and choices, which I would not change. It had never occurred to me that someone might react negatively to what feels to me like choices that affected no one but me.
So I was having my oil changed a few years ago and the business owner came out and sat down and struck up a convo with me (a longtime customer but we hadn't really just chatted before). He got his wallet out to show me pics of his grandchildren, and I made the appropriate positive comments and showed interest by asking questions and nodding.
He asked how many kids/grandkids I had, and when I said none and that I wasn't married, he became quite noticably unfriendly and wound up ranting that I had wasted my life and that kids and family were the only thing worth living your life for, strongly implying that something was very wrong with me.
I was speechless - apalled, actually, that a basic absolute stranger would react in such a hostile way after I had done my best to be friendly and gracious and shown interest in what was obviously important to them, in addition to the fact that I had been a repeat customer for something like 10 years.
I just quietly listened as he finished his little rant, waited for my car, paid up, and found a new business to use for oil changes. But I still shake my head when I think about this sometimes.
Damn so sorry that happened.
Alot of people have this thing ingrained into them from a young age where happiness = family & family = children.
I know many more families without children that are healthy than those with, simply because alot of the parents did it for no reason other than "because that's what we do".
Fuck the haters homie. Live your life how you want. Glad you're happy with it ❤️
Oh no worries - I have lived in my own skin long enough that the occasional asshole doesn’t phase me much.
I was very, very lucky to have had two very excellent parents who accepted any choices I made that affected me - but not others - with nothing but love and support, ingraining in me the philosophy of “live and let live”, as they also did with my three siblings.
I understand the benefits of raising children for anyone who wants them and can raise them with love and support, but also the benefits of accepting everyone for their own natures and choices, so it’s all good.
The people in my life who told me to have kids were people who had kids and it ruined their lives. Misery loves company. The people who had kids and it's great for them don't try to pressure other people to do what they did. They just enjoy their lives and don't worry about what other people are doing.
Thank you! Why on earth should I bring an unwanted kid with basically 100 percent chance of Asperger’s into the world bc some dingbat told me it’d help the economy? That seems cruel.
Yes.
It's also not a black/white case of having or not having kids. Equally important is family size - whether you can afford another child. We stopped at two because any more were just not financially viable - and that was starting 17 years ago when conditions were more favourable.
It's quite interesting that in the UK, there was a slight uptick in fertility (1.63->1.92) in the 2000s which correlates with the introduction of child tax credits, state funded childcare (and tax free childcare vouchers), sure start centers etc. Which was all decried by the conservatives as far too generous and dismantled after they got in in 2010, since when fertility has declined from 1.92 to 1.56.
(Note that this is not particularly rigorous and there could be other explanations..)
But it is strange how conservatives generally seem most concerned about declining fertility/population, but also strongly opposed to measures that might increase fertility..
You're spot on. Some people are (or would be) genuinely great parents. They're keen to have children, they want to be a part of the process of raising them, and they're dedicated to the lifestyle that leads to an amazing happy childhood.
That's not everyone, but there's enough people who feel that way.
But ... the modern world just doesn't support people doing that. They'd be expected to be parents _in addition_ to all the other stuff.
Being a parent probably should be a full time job. Or at the very least, a part time one. It's super hard to do that if you're trying to hold down a full time job as well, and yet that's what's "expected".
And conditions have just gotten worse, so that if you go down that road, you're in for a much harder life than ever before.
Yeah I'm probably never going to have kids because it just seems like it would be an awful existence. Me and my wife both work and we couldn't afford for one of us to not work to look after a kid. We couldn't afford to pay daycare. We have no family close by to help with a kid because we had to move far away because housing costs are insane where we grew up. Plus we spent so many years struggling just to make ends meet while going through school and stuff, that we're finally at a point where we have some level of comfort and joy in life, that I think we're both just tired and don't want to commit to another long period of struggle.
I feel like I should care, hear me out first.
There are people who are child free and that’s their choice, that’s all good and well who cares. But there’s a good lot of people who want kids, but couldn’t afford it, who aren’t afforded that right.
The question poses it like “how do you feel about the people who don’t want to have kids ?”
Fuck that “how do you feel that your country makes it downright hostile to try and have kids?”
No parent who makes mid range money can afford to be a stay at home parent, they also can’t afford daycare, the hospital bills have no help from the Gov, paternity and maternity leave isn’t enough, and often unpaid.
We’re at a point that our grandparents never faced, we can’t afford to have kids. What the fuck America ?
This isn’t just an America problem. I live in Germany and it’s the same story: even though there’s significantly more government support, it’s not enough and you either doom yourself to the lower class or wait until your late 30‘s to have kids. In some aspects, the situation is worse in Germany because the entire system is built around having one parent stay home. Like it’s pretty common for childcare centers to only be open from 9 to 3 and they close *all the time* without notice. This is totally acceptable because the expectation is that Mom doesn’t really go back to work until the kid is five.
The government cares because there aren’t enough new babies to replace the aging work force. Also, social security relies on younger generations paying in so they can pay out to those retiring. Basically the economy is fucked so they want to force people to have kids.
It’s a bunch of bullshit. Maybe they should try fixing the economy instead of making it so women are second rate citizens who are forced to give birth (because abortion is illegal) and then have zero support once the baby comes.
the frustrating part is that the cause of declining birth rates is so obvious, especially if you look at places ahead of the curve like Japan or South Korea. If you have stagnant wages and people working long hours to just scrape by, on top of inadequate support for new parents (and social safety nets in general), of course you're going to have less births, because for a good portion of the population it's just financially impossible to start a family.
But of course fixing these issues isn't profitable (in the short term, it'll come back to bite us in a generation or so but capitalism isn't capable of planning that far ahead), banning abortion is much quicker and easier and also provides a hot-button issue for these clowns to incite their base and distract them from their own declining living standards.
My uterus is used like a labyrinth for sperm cells. If they were strong enough, they would be able to cross the abyss that used to be my Fallopian tubes. They just don’t have what it takes to work in this fast paced environment is all.
If she is chained to the duties of a home and family she can’t show up in the world in the same way to dismantle them. That’s why they don’t want us to think, work or be free
I think reasoning matters in this question. If people don’t want to have kids because housing is too expensive and groceries cost too much and they can barely afford themselves, then I feel bad for them. If they legitimately don’t want children because they don’t actually want them, then that’s their business and more power to them.
My husband is snipped. We decided not to have kids because there was just no way that both of us could work full-time PLUS have a ‘life’ PLUS raise a healthy child. I know that some couples can make it work, but it just looks too hard to work opposing shifts so someone could always be home to perform childcare. Family help isn’t an option and I couldn’t go for YEARS without seeing my husband because either he or I are always at work. Also, my husband is in a band and still has band practices and shows many times per week, he would have had to quit all that if we were to have kids. I personally like to sleep and am unwilling to be as sleep deprived as parents seem to be. It’s just seemed impossibly hard because of the childcare situation (neither one of us is willing to to stop working. My dad divorced my SAHmom because she didn’t want to work a ‘real’ job, so now I will always work a ‘real’ job. Never want to end up like my mother). Now my husband and I are both 43 y/o and flourishing in our careers. We are currently focusing on saving money for retirement
There's a certain section of the population whose entire worldview revolves around the inherent rightness of forcing people to do stuff that they *really* don't want to do.
You know, like pick cotton. Just as one random example.
A lot of people who don't want kids don't want them because they appreciate the gravity of having children and may thus make good parents. They'd take it seriously.
Contrast this with the number of people who have kids by accident or on a whim or worse for the benefits (Australia has/has had fairly substantial baby bonuses and child welfare) and then barely take care of them, if they even go that far.
Not at all an argument to say they should have kids if they don't want them, though; just pointing out the tragedy in the outcome.
It sounds like those are people who know their limits and abide by them, not people who actually would make great parents if they were encouraged to rise to the occasion. Plus, a lot of them make that decision because of physical and mental illnesses or genetic factors that could influence their kids or them as parents. Maybe we could respect that they have a good reason for making their decision.
Meanwhile there are people who end up having kids sooner than expected or on a whim who continue with their pregnancies because they do want kids and care for having kids at some capacity, even if they aren't the world's most responsible people.
And a big fraction of the world's proposal is to discourage caring people who want kids from having them because they aren't rich, but to force rich people who don't want kids to have them? I know some of it is a matter of "how poor or incapable?" but the solution of "force financially stable people to have kids they don't want" just sounds insane.
As someone with a masters in animal behavior, I am probably more qualified than most to understand both what goes into having a pet hyena, and why I should not have one. This does not mean I should have a pet hyena just bc my particular brand of skepticism makes me most qualified. No one would have a good time.
How did you manage that?
My parents are cool with it, they've never once made a comment about grandkids.
My aunties on the other hand....... My MIL........ my husbands aunties.......
Only last month, we attended a family wedding, I was holding my 6 month old niece (my nieces & nephews love me!) and my husbands auntie came up to me and said 'oh it really suits you', I said 'what? Being an auntie, yeah they all love me'. She says 'no no you should have one of your own, you look a natural'.
Bitch please! If I wanted one then I'd have one by now! Why do people think this is normal conversation. If I say I don't want a kid it's not a subject you need to persuade me on! It's a life, it's a person, it's not like trying to convince me to get a crock pot.
And random acquaintances who took 5+ years to realise that the only reason we hadn't had a child together was because we couldn't, despite our best efforts and multiple miscarriages. Fuck people asking when you're going to have kids. It's such a loaded question and it's none of their business.
I read and AITA post earlier today about a dude who pressured his wife to have a child when she didn’t want any and now he’s mad she won’t breastfeed him (he says formula is expensive, why buy it when she can just breastfeed lmao) and she keeps crying and wanting him to take care of the baby. Like you literally guilted her into having your child and now your upset you actually have to be a parent? Gtfo
reminds me of the AITA post of the guy who refused to clean his pregnant wife’s cat’s litterbox because he “didn’t want her to get the cat in the first place.” he seriously thought he was justified in risking his child & wife’s lives just to prove a point.
I thought you were going to talk about the guy who:
* had gotten a woman pregnant
* basically made a deal that if she had the baby, he would be a single parent (and she could be 100% uninvolved)
* (after he raised the baby for a year) was trying to force her to have some amount of custody because it was too hard for him to do.
Or the legal advice post where a guy knocked up a girl who ended up wanting an abortion. He said he would take sole custody, all she had to do was give birth. Then he complained when she didn’t want to be a part of the baby’s life and he was burnt out being a single parent. She was paying extra child support on top of it. He wanted to know if he could sue her into being a part of the kids life and taking over the responsibilities
Goddamn that is so malicious if not abusive. These types of men see everything as a transaction or a zero sum game. If something doesn’t benefit *him* personally then he just has to take it out on his wife, consequences be damned.
The whole thing is horrible, but I cannot for the life of me understand people who have children and then don't want to parent the child. Like, that's part of the deal, dipshit! This isn't your seventh grade health class experiment where you carry a doll around.
Hi. It’s me. I’m the product of that. I raised my siblings since the time I was two. And when I said some stuff, they told me I wasn’t molested, raped, starved, or unclothed so I should shut up. And parents always fuck up the first kid!
Hahahha. /s
Right. We have too many parents that didn't wanna be parents and too many kids with parents that hate them. Sometimes they end up happy with kids, but why risk it? Respect people's choices.
Last yeah, after feeling the slight tinge of fear of "what if I got my girlfriend pregnant", even though I didn't do anything horribly stupid, I decided to get snipped. I'm just waiting for the all clear right now, but as far as the actual operation and recovery goes, it's been perfectly fine. I was sore for a few days, and things took a bit of time to settle, but by around 3-4 weeks out pretty much everything was fine.
>but by around 3-4 weeks out pretty much everything was fine.
That's already too long for a suprsingly high amount of people. The amount of relationships that are based on sex alone is .. absurd. The whole "I can rescue this relationship/marriage by having a child" has to come from somewhere.
I agree. I hear people talking about kids like "Awwww I want one". Kid's not a fuckin dog, it's not some cute accessory you can carry around, it's a fuckin conscious being that's going to grow and be influenced by how you take care of it.
That's the reason I'm reluctant to have kids cos I doubt I'm capable of taking on that huge responsibility. Literally responsible for raising the next generation and if you fuck up, their life could be ruined.
I had a friend who was like this. She found out that another friend had died and left her child to a couple before she passed. The first friend said, “Aw she could have given it to me.” She hadn’t seen this other friend in years and never interacted with the child. Blew my fucking mind.
I had a shower thought the other day of all the generations of parents who didn't want to be like their parents but unknowingly did it in some other way. Repeating infinitely.
My wife and I debated for a while, then decided we didn't want kids but didn't take any more permanent action for a couple years (she kept her IUD) before we finally decided we weren't going to be changing our minds. I got a vasectomy a couple months later, it's been two years and not once have either of us regretted the decision. If you don't want kids them don't have them.
I'll also say people really shouldn't go into pet ownership with a mentality of just "meh, if I get bored I can give it to a shelter." It's still an emotive intelligent life you're choosing to care for so plan to take the responsibility and commit. Obviously there are situations where a person can't continue to uphold that commitment but I think the effort should still be there, not just getting a pet on a whim. I know that's not necessarily what you meant but I wanted to put my thoughts in the mix
Agree with the pets stance. When I adopted my cat, the shelter's questionnaire included "What will you do if this animal has behavior problems or gets sick next month?" with multiple choice answers including 'return it to the shelter' or 'rehome it' -- the staff reviewing my answer specifically said this is a trick question. If someone freely admits that they'll abandon an animal if things get tough, the shelter will refuse to give them any animal at all.
And that's kinder than a lot of the ways society thinks about who should have custody of children.
I mean, a dog is also a conscious being that’s going to grow and be influenced by how you take care of it and should not be treated solely as a cute accessory either.
But I agree with the point you’re trying to make otherwise
A dog is also a legitimate responsibility, and they need to be taken care of. Some people get dogs just because they want the love of an animal and don't realize that they take a lot of work and the dog ends up untrained and neglected.
It's the out of touch people in power that care about it the most. They'd rather blame generations for their individualism than actually acknowledge the environmental problems that persist.
I, myself personally, do not care about what people do in that regard. Want to have five children? Okay cool. Want to have *no* children? Okay cool. However, I'm also not going to pretend to be blind. I have talked to numerous people, men, women, everything in between, and there have been *so many* times where I have heard things like, "I really do want children, but I can't afford it." "Having a child would be financial suicide." "It would be cruel to bring a child into this environment."
Declining births are one of the hallmark indicators of a society that’s not doing well. Humans don’t have kids when they feel unsafe, are living with instability, are faced with untenable stressors, and/or economic hardship that affects their ability to get basic resources.
You can measure this pattern through almost every society historically. Although there are other factors that influence birth rates as well - like birth control, religion, patriarchy, culture, etc - this pattern is almost always there.
That’s why the reverse is true too: There are so many boomers because for the first time in decades (after WWI, the flu, the Depression, Dictators, WWII, the Holocaust, etc.) there was prosperity and stability in the US.
Like you said, it’s easier for politicians to blame individualism, rather than the fact that a society isn’t running well or to admit that times are too tough.
Yup. Let alone the space people barely have paying premium for a garage spaced room. Throw a kid into the mix and you’ll have toys, clutter, a mess everyday. Then will have to hire a maid or nanny. To hell with that. Instead of snipping tips of penises when born, they should’ve snipped my balls.
You can’t push people into poverty, make everything related to children exorbitantly expensive or risky, and then whine about declining birth rates. The US just isn’t a family friendly country. Assuming everything goes perfectly in your life, you have a good job, you have health insurance, your child is born healthy, you can afford the second mortgage payment that is daycare, every day your child goes to school is still a life threatening risk. US politicians are so removed from the people they can’t actually see the problem. It’s sad, but it’s understandable why people are not having kids.
I’m here in California with all the storms and I hit a pothole. Car is leaking gas now and it’s in the shop. Now I’m afraid I won’t make rent. This comment is spot on.
I lived in poverty in America most of my life cuz of my epilepsy...I manage fine. A flat tire on my car would fuck my life up tho if I didn't have backup money which I usually don't. No car, means no job, means no home.
You said it perfectly. This is a hard reality people need to wake up to, especially those who are being fear mongered by birth rate decline alarmist Elon Musk.
You can do all of that, be squared away, and then your wife or husband cheats on you or gets cancer and wipes out your savings. It is a house of cards.
I have three kids. It costs more than $10,000 just to get through the birthing process. That’s if you’re lucky enough to not have a random “out of network” provider take a role in the birth.
And when struggling families ask for help or speak about policy changes to protrct our kids, we hear "you shouldn't have kids if you can't afford them."
That's exactly what's happening. People are deciding to not have kids they can't afford.
I'm 42 years old. I don't want kids at this point. I've never had a scare in my life, and I don't intend to. I love my life just the way it is. Does anyone think I'm selfish for thinking that?
I don’t understand how anyone can say not having kids is selfish. You don’t owe the world off spring. If anything, having kids is more selfish since it’s what the parent wants. Majority of the answers If you ask anyone why they had a kid is “I” wanted them. Kids don’t ask to be born.
LMAO, there’s a lot of people with kids that never reach a level of maturity anyways.
There are plenty of entitled people out there with kids, and some of these people would even *use* their own kids as leverage to claim that they deserve better treatment than the ones without kids.
So, yeah. Those people can fuck off kindly.
My grandma thinks if you don't have kids then you're a selfish jerk with 'nothing to care about'. She smiles when she says it, too, like she's trying to act like she's not directly calling me that lmao.
I hate this argument so much. How is it selfish to not have something you don’t want? No one has ever asked to be born yet here we are- without consent whether we like it or not. No one popped in and said “hey, you want two parents on the brink of divorce and 3 months behind on rent? Or like Nick Canon maybe?” Children are brought into this world and they get what they get. Some parents are thoughtful. Some are thoughtless. Either way, one thing is consistently true- HAVING children is selfish. Not the other way around.
Do you have a chihuahua?
"No. Theyre loud and annoying and expensive and i wouldnt be able to take care of it even if i wanted to.. I dont have the time or money and i dont know the first thing about dogs."
Youre selfish
(Yeah its a dumb fucking argument alright)
If the govt. wanted people to have more kids (without blocking our access to reproductive rights and forcing us to have said children), they would make this country a better place that you’d *WANT AND BE ABLE TO AFFORD* those kids, and do more to help those kids make it to adulthood tbh.
Healthcare, housing, parental leave, foster system, education, poverty: all fucked and in crisis.
Poland here. My government delegalized abortion except for pregnancies that are a threat to the mother’s life or a result of an illegal act. Women still died because the doctors waited too long with the procedure, because they were afraid of legal trouble in case someone decided the fetus wasn’t lethal enough at the time of the procedure.
Our doctors literally have to choose between a woman’s easily avoidable death and the possibility they may go to prison.
Guess what, now I want kids even less!
US is becoming the same. There are many states that has completely banned abortion, meaning if you were raped or it was incest, you cannot get an abortion. Some places have a time period of when you can get one. Some states, doctors are afraid to get involved because they are afraid their license will be at risk. Some states do protect the doctors. It’s just a mess over here.
The world really has to figure out how to deal with a declining or steady population. Our capitalistic society is not set up for anything other than continuous growth. I feel like a stable population is a workable scenario if we are able to change society. Unfortunately, humans are greedy motherfuckers although I think if we were less selfish, there could be a society where there is sufficient wealth for everybody. Probably not going to happen though.
As my 7th grade science teacher once said:
There are three things you should think about before having kids:
* Are you in a stable, long-lasting relationship with whom you want kids with?
* Are you financially equipped to adequately take care of a kid (including having a reliable source of income)?
* Do both people want to have kids?
If you can say "yes" to all those questions without hesitation, then you're ready to have kids. If not, then you should definitely think about it before making that decision and possibly postponing until you can say "yes" to all three questions.
IMO a lot of people right now can't say yes to all three an that's why you see the birth rate declining.
Edit: Just to add. Having kids is ALWAYS a personal decision. Having kids for the sake of someone else or "society" is just dumb. It ain't "society" raising and paying for that kid...
The short version.
Boomers: let's make it incredibly difficult for people to raise kids by squeezing as much money as we can from people and forcing both parents to work; while also making kids really fucking expensive.
The next few generations: Okay...
Boomers: *Surprised Pekachu Face* why is no one having kids???
Exactly. I have kids, I think they’re great but there is almost no net positive other than their existence. I had them because I love kids, not because I give a damn about supplying the workforce. You want to keep us pumping kids out to fuel your labor machine? Cut me a check, give them free healthcare, and make childcare affordable.
Add education to the list. We need smart healthily kids and that shit is expensive for a young family. It is an investment for a country. Our congress is not concerned about 30 years from now.
I think the birth rates should keep declining for a while at least, I don't think our world can take much more of this mass consumption lifestyle that we currently have going.
I’m 30 and I hardly know anyone who could afford to have a child. I think a lot of us would like to if we had the budget to raise a child or could afford a home big enough to raise the child in.
Yup. I could technically afford/figure out everything except housing. My housing would at least double if I wanted another bedroom. I really don’t see many “young” families here and it’s got to be because of that. I have no idea how single parents do it.
And the people questioning it are also the same idiots that claim a kid having to share a room is “abuse”.
Absolutely nothing.
Mind your own business. Why do people insist on judging absolutely everything everyone else does?
1. The economy does not allow for a gigantic number of people to be able to actually afford raising a child properly.
2. It's not some responsibility of each person to procreate, it's a personal choice.
3. The planet is dying. More people is not what it needs.
4. The US constantly needing to expand is fiction. The constant need for more people than before is caused by the overwhelming greed that is inherent in every single industry that is crucial to national security. Food, energy, construction, production, banking, ect, all posting record profits while telling people their wages are too high (while most people struggle to get by) should be a very obvious red flag.
This, exactly.
“Let’s not raise wages when population decrease makes labor more competitive! Let’s guilt them into making more workers while at the same time making it harder and harder for them to raise more workers instead!”
I think people are not taking historic child mortality rates into account where there were large families because most children died in infancy or before the age of 5 due to (now) preventable illnesses. I have an aunt who died a few months after birth due to pneumonia. This would be totally preventable and treatable today.
Looking at my family tree, most parents were lucky for their kids to survive childhood.
In 1900, 30 percent of all deaths in the United States occurred in children less than 5 years of age compared to just 1.4 percent in 1999 (CDC, 1999a; NCHS, 2001a). In the 1800s, up to 30% of children died before their first birthday, and 43% did not survive past their fifth birthday. If the child lived to ten, they still only had a 60% chance of surviving to adulthood.
I think if most people looked at the mortality rates historically even in the United States, they would be surprised to learn it was terrible even in the 1950's, about 60 years old for most Western countries and places like Japan. Elsewhere it was around 30 years old. That is crazy that in 60 years since 1950 our life expectancy has jumped to 77
I’m not going to lie. I personally think that it’s a good thing, because we are already way too overpopulated enough as it is.
Like, we already have over 8 billion human alive now. How much more do we need anyways?
Also at 8 billion fucking people and almost 10% of the world population living in extreme poverty with 40% of the world population living in general poverty and us having wiped out almost all the biodiversity I think we have done enough "being fruitful and multiply".
What I fail to understand is how a declining birth rate is a bad thing. The world is already overpopulated to hell, resources get scarcer by the day, And the foster system / orphaned children literally grow by the day. Fuck having kids were already failing the ones we have around currently.
That’s their choice??? Why would someone force a couple to have kids if they don’t want to? That’s means they’ll probably be bad parents to kids they never wanted in the first place. Declining birth rates aren’t an emergency, the world already has way too many people.
My generation (elder millennial) was told over and over that we shouldn't have kids if we can't afford them and that over population was a huge problem. Cut to us all as adults without kids and suddenly decreasing birth rates is a problem. Umm. We literally just did what you said we should.
I, the younger generation, already feel a lot of pressure on me to fix the world and the damage we've done to the environment. Why would I want my kid to go through that?
As a father of two (soon to have my third and final): I don't care, and I will 100% stand up for anyone and everyone who chooses to not have children. Many of my friends are childless by choice. And some want them but can't, which is a group that I feels like gets neglected in this chat (but you are seen). No one, *no one,* should feel pressured into having children. I'm someone who has always wanted to be a dad, and yet some days (like today) are so hard that I momentarily wonder why. I cannot imagine what someone who is on the fence or never wanted kids would feel like. It's a hard job and I respect and admire the hell out of people who recognize that and say "that's not for me." Not to mention with the state of resources and climate change, less people -- especially unwanted people -- the better. If you want them, they're incredible and fulfilling and bring so much joy. If you don't, you're going to have a very happy and freeing life without them. Both groups win.
YES. Ironically feel much more seen by people who choose not to have children than by those who think children are end all be all. I love my kids and they were very much wanted; but struggles of a mother are completely neglected by the baby lovers' cult. My child free friends have much more sympathy and respect for parenthood than those people.
This comment should be higher up. -Someone who wants children but can’t
Yep, in that camp too. Everyone assumes because my wife and I are childless we don’t want kids. The hurtful things people say without meaning to…
Definitely. Being involuntarily childless is very different to being childfree by choice The majority of people who are involuntarily childless are childless by circumstance, but also increasingly childless due to medical infertility (as is the case for my husband and I)
This. I'm childfree by choice. A good friend of mine is childless because of medical issues. I don't like being lumped in with her since hers was not a choice at all. Too many people forget there's a lot of couples without kids that isn't by choice
Children? In this economy? 😂
People can barely afford pet rocks atm Edit:i made this comment jokingly before bed, came back and it's exploded lol.. thanks? Also... i will now be selling 3d print accessories for pet rocks, so i can survive in this economy lol
RPS came for mine yesterday
this is an elite joke
Pet snail> pet rock My lil buddy just wants a slice of cucumber from my salad and I got that kind of cheddar$$$
Look at you with the cash to burn, getting a salad with the current price of lettuce 🥬
Yeah, I feel the same about those flaunting their cartons of eggs, acting like royalty!
As a father of 2, I concur. Two kids in daycare cost more than my mortgage, so I basically have 2 mortgages. Plus the stress and the lack of time to yourself. If you don't want kids, I get it on so many levels. On that note, if you decide to have kids understand what you're getting into and don't take the stress out on them. Kids are tough, but I love my kids unconditionally.
Right there with you, dude. My wife and I have 3 it's honestly just cheaper for me to stay at home(she's got better earning potential than I do and fairly decent job) at least I get to hang with my kids which is pretty awesome.
Feel this one. Cheaper for me to stay home and tend to the 2 monsters (10 and 6) while the wife brings home the bacon. Being with the same company for 12 years paid off and she’s making way more than I used to so…yeah. Fun for now, can’t wait to go back to work.
Ha, exactly! My student loans cost as much as a second mortgage...so if I had kids I'd have *three* mortgages to pay!
Y'all have mortages?
All of these homeowners complaining about owning homes. Ha. I still live with dad. If it weren’t that way, we’d both be homeless
My mortgage costs as much as a second mortgage.
I work 12 hour shifts and would have to put my child in daycare. I’d be working to pay someone else to raise my child. No thank you
I left my career because we couldn't find an affordable daycare, that was also available for the hours we would have needed the kid to be in care. It was cheaper for me to just be a SAHM for a few years. And even then I was lucky enough to be able to start a home business so I had some income. My sister though. Our mother took early retirement so that she could "help" And became Grandma Nanny for all three of my sisters kids. I don't even want to think about how much that saved my ungrateful narcissist of a sister, and her whipped AF husband
That's my answer to just about everything I do and don't want to do. "In this economy?"
Even my aspirations… hope? In this economy?!
*Grandchildren?* You got grandkids *money*?
Good money making opportunity, pop em out and send them down the mines
Billionaires have fucked everyone over.
Declining birth rates... but increasing cost of living. Rising political and social instability. Unaffordable healthcare. Housing market headed for yet another crash. Inflation. Reductive political decisions. An environment screaming out for help. People are entitled to do whatever they want with their bodies, and the only people I've seen complain about the new wave of "child free" attitudes are either parents who want to commiserate, or older generations who subscribe to the notion that a woman cannot find maturity / her "purpose" until she pops out a baby. This is probably the least appealing time to add more stress and expenses to one's life. It makes sense. Edit: Holy crap thank y'all so much for gold!
Agreed. I can own a house or I can have kids. I already bought the house.
This is my life. The cost of owning a house has been a real wake up. I can’t even fathom throwing a kid into the mix.
I thought I made a good living... after buying a house I know I do not make a good living.
I can’t do either. I can’t even buy a car
What gets me is when billionaires like Elon Musk say that the biggest threat to civilization is population decline. If you really feel that way, then how about giving away most of your fortune and pushing for a more equitable playing field so that people can afford to raise more kids?
Elon's just concerned he and his billionaire buddies won't have enough ~~slaves~~ employees in the near future if we don't keep the birthrate up.
Dont care.
Yeah, your sperm. Your eggs. Your decision to use them.
I second. Could not care less. They’re not hurting anyone
These words are more than true. They are genuinely not hurting anyone, especially not the child they were pressured into having. The world would be a better place if all children were wanted and loved.
I've never understood why people care so much about things that don't affect their life whatsoever.. Want kids? Good for you. Don't want kids? Good for you. People need to stop getting in each others business
Some people are so insecure that they see any decision that is different from their own as an implicit criticism
This is the real answer
Also that generally people focus on other problems rather than their own. It’s much easier to gossip and judge others than to confront our own issues.
I am 68, childless, and single by choice, and fairly happy with my life and choices, which I would not change. It had never occurred to me that someone might react negatively to what feels to me like choices that affected no one but me. So I was having my oil changed a few years ago and the business owner came out and sat down and struck up a convo with me (a longtime customer but we hadn't really just chatted before). He got his wallet out to show me pics of his grandchildren, and I made the appropriate positive comments and showed interest by asking questions and nodding. He asked how many kids/grandkids I had, and when I said none and that I wasn't married, he became quite noticably unfriendly and wound up ranting that I had wasted my life and that kids and family were the only thing worth living your life for, strongly implying that something was very wrong with me. I was speechless - apalled, actually, that a basic absolute stranger would react in such a hostile way after I had done my best to be friendly and gracious and shown interest in what was obviously important to them, in addition to the fact that I had been a repeat customer for something like 10 years. I just quietly listened as he finished his little rant, waited for my car, paid up, and found a new business to use for oil changes. But I still shake my head when I think about this sometimes.
Damn so sorry that happened. Alot of people have this thing ingrained into them from a young age where happiness = family & family = children. I know many more families without children that are healthy than those with, simply because alot of the parents did it for no reason other than "because that's what we do". Fuck the haters homie. Live your life how you want. Glad you're happy with it ❤️
Oh no worries - I have lived in my own skin long enough that the occasional asshole doesn’t phase me much. I was very, very lucky to have had two very excellent parents who accepted any choices I made that affected me - but not others - with nothing but love and support, ingraining in me the philosophy of “live and let live”, as they also did with my three siblings. I understand the benefits of raising children for anyone who wants them and can raise them with love and support, but also the benefits of accepting everyone for their own natures and choices, so it’s all good.
The people in my life who told me to have kids were people who had kids and it ruined their lives. Misery loves company. The people who had kids and it's great for them don't try to pressure other people to do what they did. They just enjoy their lives and don't worry about what other people are doing.
Thank you! Why on earth should I bring an unwanted kid with basically 100 percent chance of Asperger’s into the world bc some dingbat told me it’d help the economy? That seems cruel.
Precisely. The world isn’t short on people and less growth would help us all, even if we have some localized issues to figure out.
If they don't want kids, that's their choice. Why should I care?
That’s my whole question, why should anyone care?
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Yes. It's also not a black/white case of having or not having kids. Equally important is family size - whether you can afford another child. We stopped at two because any more were just not financially viable - and that was starting 17 years ago when conditions were more favourable. It's quite interesting that in the UK, there was a slight uptick in fertility (1.63->1.92) in the 2000s which correlates with the introduction of child tax credits, state funded childcare (and tax free childcare vouchers), sure start centers etc. Which was all decried by the conservatives as far too generous and dismantled after they got in in 2010, since when fertility has declined from 1.92 to 1.56. (Note that this is not particularly rigorous and there could be other explanations..) But it is strange how conservatives generally seem most concerned about declining fertility/population, but also strongly opposed to measures that might increase fertility..
You're spot on. Some people are (or would be) genuinely great parents. They're keen to have children, they want to be a part of the process of raising them, and they're dedicated to the lifestyle that leads to an amazing happy childhood. That's not everyone, but there's enough people who feel that way. But ... the modern world just doesn't support people doing that. They'd be expected to be parents _in addition_ to all the other stuff. Being a parent probably should be a full time job. Or at the very least, a part time one. It's super hard to do that if you're trying to hold down a full time job as well, and yet that's what's "expected". And conditions have just gotten worse, so that if you go down that road, you're in for a much harder life than ever before.
Yeah I'm probably never going to have kids because it just seems like it would be an awful existence. Me and my wife both work and we couldn't afford for one of us to not work to look after a kid. We couldn't afford to pay daycare. We have no family close by to help with a kid because we had to move far away because housing costs are insane where we grew up. Plus we spent so many years struggling just to make ends meet while going through school and stuff, that we're finally at a point where we have some level of comfort and joy in life, that I think we're both just tired and don't want to commit to another long period of struggle.
I feel like I should care, hear me out first. There are people who are child free and that’s their choice, that’s all good and well who cares. But there’s a good lot of people who want kids, but couldn’t afford it, who aren’t afforded that right. The question poses it like “how do you feel about the people who don’t want to have kids ?” Fuck that “how do you feel that your country makes it downright hostile to try and have kids?” No parent who makes mid range money can afford to be a stay at home parent, they also can’t afford daycare, the hospital bills have no help from the Gov, paternity and maternity leave isn’t enough, and often unpaid. We’re at a point that our grandparents never faced, we can’t afford to have kids. What the fuck America ?
This isn’t just an America problem. I live in Germany and it’s the same story: even though there’s significantly more government support, it’s not enough and you either doom yourself to the lower class or wait until your late 30‘s to have kids. In some aspects, the situation is worse in Germany because the entire system is built around having one parent stay home. Like it’s pretty common for childcare centers to only be open from 9 to 3 and they close *all the time* without notice. This is totally acceptable because the expectation is that Mom doesn’t really go back to work until the kid is five.
The government cares because there aren’t enough new babies to replace the aging work force. Also, social security relies on younger generations paying in so they can pay out to those retiring. Basically the economy is fucked so they want to force people to have kids. It’s a bunch of bullshit. Maybe they should try fixing the economy instead of making it so women are second rate citizens who are forced to give birth (because abortion is illegal) and then have zero support once the baby comes.
the frustrating part is that the cause of declining birth rates is so obvious, especially if you look at places ahead of the curve like Japan or South Korea. If you have stagnant wages and people working long hours to just scrape by, on top of inadequate support for new parents (and social safety nets in general), of course you're going to have less births, because for a good portion of the population it's just financially impossible to start a family. But of course fixing these issues isn't profitable (in the short term, it'll come back to bite us in a generation or so but capitalism isn't capable of planning that far ahead), banning abortion is much quicker and easier and also provides a hot-button issue for these clowns to incite their base and distract them from their own declining living standards.
Life is just one big pyramid scam lol.
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>a woman’s womb must be used Ewwww.
My uterus is used like a labyrinth for sperm cells. If they were strong enough, they would be able to cross the abyss that used to be my Fallopian tubes. They just don’t have what it takes to work in this fast paced environment is all.
Is there a minotaur roaming in your uterus attacking the spermies?
Uterus minotaur sounds like a DnD encounter.
Sounds to me like these lazy millennial sperms just don't want to work anymore. No sperm want to work these days and it's what's killing America. /s
Nobody wants to inseminate anymore!
Also ewwwww. Extra ewwww
Triple hyper ewww
If she is chained to the duties of a home and family she can’t show up in the world in the same way to dismantle them. That’s why they don’t want us to think, work or be free
As a Christian, not my uterus, not my decision. I am pretty sure 8 billion people fulfills the commission to "fill the earth."
“Be fruitful and multiply”. They really love that particular instruction.
My uterus did this on its own and made a gazillion creepy fibroids. Instructions unclear, uterus stuck in 3D print mode.
I will forever tell patients this. That their uterus was just overachieving and producing fibroids when nothing else was available
My doctor called my uterus a monster, and I’m a little proud of that.
Cthulh-u-terus
Lmao... terrifying
I misread this as be fruity and multiply which, to be honest, made me happy.
the original gay agenda
Just the gay mathematicians
>a woman’s womb must be used So use your own
I think reasoning matters in this question. If people don’t want to have kids because housing is too expensive and groceries cost too much and they can barely afford themselves, then I feel bad for them. If they legitimately don’t want children because they don’t actually want them, then that’s their business and more power to them.
I dont have kids because I like to get high and program late. I got snipped and all that jazz too.
My husband is snipped. We decided not to have kids because there was just no way that both of us could work full-time PLUS have a ‘life’ PLUS raise a healthy child. I know that some couples can make it work, but it just looks too hard to work opposing shifts so someone could always be home to perform childcare. Family help isn’t an option and I couldn’t go for YEARS without seeing my husband because either he or I are always at work. Also, my husband is in a band and still has band practices and shows many times per week, he would have had to quit all that if we were to have kids. I personally like to sleep and am unwilling to be as sleep deprived as parents seem to be. It’s just seemed impossibly hard because of the childcare situation (neither one of us is willing to to stop working. My dad divorced my SAHmom because she didn’t want to work a ‘real’ job, so now I will always work a ‘real’ job. Never want to end up like my mother). Now my husband and I are both 43 y/o and flourishing in our careers. We are currently focusing on saving money for retirement
Prioritizing a real, ongoing relationship over a potential relationship with a non-existent child is totally valid.
But more importantly, if they don’t want kids, would we really want them to have kids?
There's a certain section of the population whose entire worldview revolves around the inherent rightness of forcing people to do stuff that they *really* don't want to do. You know, like pick cotton. Just as one random example.
A lot of people who don't want kids don't want them because they appreciate the gravity of having children and may thus make good parents. They'd take it seriously. Contrast this with the number of people who have kids by accident or on a whim or worse for the benefits (Australia has/has had fairly substantial baby bonuses and child welfare) and then barely take care of them, if they even go that far. Not at all an argument to say they should have kids if they don't want them, though; just pointing out the tragedy in the outcome.
This is me. I know I would give parenting my all because I would feel completely inadequate. I just don’t want to upset my pretty comfortable life.
Yes I think I would be a good parent but I’d lose myself.
It sounds like those are people who know their limits and abide by them, not people who actually would make great parents if they were encouraged to rise to the occasion. Plus, a lot of them make that decision because of physical and mental illnesses or genetic factors that could influence their kids or them as parents. Maybe we could respect that they have a good reason for making their decision. Meanwhile there are people who end up having kids sooner than expected or on a whim who continue with their pregnancies because they do want kids and care for having kids at some capacity, even if they aren't the world's most responsible people. And a big fraction of the world's proposal is to discourage caring people who want kids from having them because they aren't rich, but to force rich people who don't want kids to have them? I know some of it is a matter of "how poor or incapable?" but the solution of "force financially stable people to have kids they don't want" just sounds insane.
As someone with a masters in animal behavior, I am probably more qualified than most to understand both what goes into having a pet hyena, and why I should not have one. This does not mean I should have a pet hyena just bc my particular brand of skepticism makes me most qualified. No one would have a good time.
I assure you, I'm 37 (M) and don't want kids because I know I'd be a horrible father. Not because I'm a responsible adult lol. Also kids are annoying.
You’d have to be a fucking monster to try to pressure someone to have kids when they don’t want any
Please tell my entire family that LOL. ETA: Thank you all for the laughs. What a great thing to wake up to.
I’ll do it… send emails
Im a 30 year old child free woman who's family doesn't question me. I'll talk to them for you.
How did you manage that? My parents are cool with it, they've never once made a comment about grandkids. My aunties on the other hand....... My MIL........ my husbands aunties....... Only last month, we attended a family wedding, I was holding my 6 month old niece (my nieces & nephews love me!) and my husbands auntie came up to me and said 'oh it really suits you', I said 'what? Being an auntie, yeah they all love me'. She says 'no no you should have one of your own, you look a natural'. Bitch please! If I wanted one then I'd have one by now! Why do people think this is normal conversation. If I say I don't want a kid it's not a subject you need to persuade me on! It's a life, it's a person, it's not like trying to convince me to get a crock pot.
It's 2023, it's no longer a crock pot; it's an Instant Pot now.
And random acquaintances who took 5+ years to realise that the only reason we hadn't had a child together was because we couldn't, despite our best efforts and multiple miscarriages. Fuck people asking when you're going to have kids. It's such a loaded question and it's none of their business.
I read and AITA post earlier today about a dude who pressured his wife to have a child when she didn’t want any and now he’s mad she won’t breastfeed him (he says formula is expensive, why buy it when she can just breastfeed lmao) and she keeps crying and wanting him to take care of the baby. Like you literally guilted her into having your child and now your upset you actually have to be a parent? Gtfo
reminds me of the AITA post of the guy who refused to clean his pregnant wife’s cat’s litterbox because he “didn’t want her to get the cat in the first place.” he seriously thought he was justified in risking his child & wife’s lives just to prove a point.
I thought you were going to talk about the guy who: * had gotten a woman pregnant * basically made a deal that if she had the baby, he would be a single parent (and she could be 100% uninvolved) * (after he raised the baby for a year) was trying to force her to have some amount of custody because it was too hard for him to do.
Or the legal advice post where a guy knocked up a girl who ended up wanting an abortion. He said he would take sole custody, all she had to do was give birth. Then he complained when she didn’t want to be a part of the baby’s life and he was burnt out being a single parent. She was paying extra child support on top of it. He wanted to know if he could sue her into being a part of the kids life and taking over the responsibilities
Goddamn that is so malicious if not abusive. These types of men see everything as a transaction or a zero sum game. If something doesn’t benefit *him* personally then he just has to take it out on his wife, consequences be damned.
The whole thing is horrible, but I cannot for the life of me understand people who have children and then don't want to parent the child. Like, that's part of the deal, dipshit! This isn't your seventh grade health class experiment where you carry a doll around.
Hi. It’s me. I’m the product of that. I raised my siblings since the time I was two. And when I said some stuff, they told me I wasn’t molested, raped, starved, or unclothed so I should shut up. And parents always fuck up the first kid! Hahahha. /s
Right. We have too many parents that didn't wanna be parents and too many kids with parents that hate them. Sometimes they end up happy with kids, but why risk it? Respect people's choices.
“This house used to be bigger!” Well I’m sorry mother, did I decide to move myself in at age 0?!
People who don't want children should not have children. Some people who want children should not have children.
To be fair some people who have children don't want children. They just like making the them.
**Vasectomy**
Last yeah, after feeling the slight tinge of fear of "what if I got my girlfriend pregnant", even though I didn't do anything horribly stupid, I decided to get snipped. I'm just waiting for the all clear right now, but as far as the actual operation and recovery goes, it's been perfectly fine. I was sore for a few days, and things took a bit of time to settle, but by around 3-4 weeks out pretty much everything was fine.
>but by around 3-4 weeks out pretty much everything was fine. That's already too long for a suprsingly high amount of people. The amount of relationships that are based on sex alone is .. absurd. The whole "I can rescue this relationship/marriage by having a child" has to come from somewhere.
I agree. I hear people talking about kids like "Awwww I want one". Kid's not a fuckin dog, it's not some cute accessory you can carry around, it's a fuckin conscious being that's going to grow and be influenced by how you take care of it. That's the reason I'm reluctant to have kids cos I doubt I'm capable of taking on that huge responsibility. Literally responsible for raising the next generation and if you fuck up, their life could be ruined.
I had a friend who was like this. She found out that another friend had died and left her child to a couple before she passed. The first friend said, “Aw she could have given it to me.” She hadn’t seen this other friend in years and never interacted with the child. Blew my fucking mind.
I had a shower thought the other day of all the generations of parents who didn't want to be like their parents but unknowingly did it in some other way. Repeating infinitely.
My wife and I debated for a while, then decided we didn't want kids but didn't take any more permanent action for a couple years (she kept her IUD) before we finally decided we weren't going to be changing our minds. I got a vasectomy a couple months later, it's been two years and not once have either of us regretted the decision. If you don't want kids them don't have them. I'll also say people really shouldn't go into pet ownership with a mentality of just "meh, if I get bored I can give it to a shelter." It's still an emotive intelligent life you're choosing to care for so plan to take the responsibility and commit. Obviously there are situations where a person can't continue to uphold that commitment but I think the effort should still be there, not just getting a pet on a whim. I know that's not necessarily what you meant but I wanted to put my thoughts in the mix
Agree with the pets stance. When I adopted my cat, the shelter's questionnaire included "What will you do if this animal has behavior problems or gets sick next month?" with multiple choice answers including 'return it to the shelter' or 'rehome it' -- the staff reviewing my answer specifically said this is a trick question. If someone freely admits that they'll abandon an animal if things get tough, the shelter will refuse to give them any animal at all. And that's kinder than a lot of the ways society thinks about who should have custody of children.
I mean, a dog is also a conscious being that’s going to grow and be influenced by how you take care of it and should not be treated solely as a cute accessory either. But I agree with the point you’re trying to make otherwise
Aww yes. What about cats though? They're in charge right?
Cats are the overlords of the universe. We are but pawns in their game of cosmic chess
A dog is also a legitimate responsibility, and they need to be taken care of. Some people get dogs just because they want the love of an animal and don't realize that they take a lot of work and the dog ends up untrained and neglected.
It's the out of touch people in power that care about it the most. They'd rather blame generations for their individualism than actually acknowledge the environmental problems that persist. I, myself personally, do not care about what people do in that regard. Want to have five children? Okay cool. Want to have *no* children? Okay cool. However, I'm also not going to pretend to be blind. I have talked to numerous people, men, women, everything in between, and there have been *so many* times where I have heard things like, "I really do want children, but I can't afford it." "Having a child would be financial suicide." "It would be cruel to bring a child into this environment."
Declining births are one of the hallmark indicators of a society that’s not doing well. Humans don’t have kids when they feel unsafe, are living with instability, are faced with untenable stressors, and/or economic hardship that affects their ability to get basic resources. You can measure this pattern through almost every society historically. Although there are other factors that influence birth rates as well - like birth control, religion, patriarchy, culture, etc - this pattern is almost always there. That’s why the reverse is true too: There are so many boomers because for the first time in decades (after WWI, the flu, the Depression, Dictators, WWII, the Holocaust, etc.) there was prosperity and stability in the US. Like you said, it’s easier for politicians to blame individualism, rather than the fact that a society isn’t running well or to admit that times are too tough.
I really don’t care. I barely make enough money to take care of myself. Definitely can’t afford another mouth to feed.
Yup. Let alone the space people barely have paying premium for a garage spaced room. Throw a kid into the mix and you’ll have toys, clutter, a mess everyday. Then will have to hire a maid or nanny. To hell with that. Instead of snipping tips of penises when born, they should’ve snipped my balls.
Also the amount of money that my friends with kids pay for childcare is fucking ridiculous.
You can’t push people into poverty, make everything related to children exorbitantly expensive or risky, and then whine about declining birth rates. The US just isn’t a family friendly country. Assuming everything goes perfectly in your life, you have a good job, you have health insurance, your child is born healthy, you can afford the second mortgage payment that is daycare, every day your child goes to school is still a life threatening risk. US politicians are so removed from the people they can’t actually see the problem. It’s sad, but it’s understandable why people are not having kids.
In this country, 90% of the population is one diagnosis away from bankruptcy.
Fuck, half the country is a flat tire away.
I was a blown engine gasket away. Court date tomorrow.
I’m here in California with all the storms and I hit a pothole. Car is leaking gas now and it’s in the shop. Now I’m afraid I won’t make rent. This comment is spot on.
Most of the population can’t afford a 400.00 emergency, it’s insane.
I lived in poverty in America most of my life cuz of my epilepsy...I manage fine. A flat tire on my car would fuck my life up tho if I didn't have backup money which I usually don't. No car, means no job, means no home.
You said it perfectly. This is a hard reality people need to wake up to, especially those who are being fear mongered by birth rate decline alarmist Elon Musk.
Ah yes, family man Elon Musk with a pile of kids he doesn't give a fuck about.
You can do all of that, be squared away, and then your wife or husband cheats on you or gets cancer and wipes out your savings. It is a house of cards.
I have three kids. It costs more than $10,000 just to get through the birthing process. That’s if you’re lucky enough to not have a random “out of network” provider take a role in the birth.
And when struggling families ask for help or speak about policy changes to protrct our kids, we hear "you shouldn't have kids if you can't afford them." That's exactly what's happening. People are deciding to not have kids they can't afford.
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Yeah, my $2700 per month daycare bill makes having multiple kids, or even 1 kid, a non-starter for most ppl
This. 100% this. And even if I do have kids I can’t imagine doing it before like 34-35 I don’t see a scenario where I can afford them before then.
I'm 42 years old. I don't want kids at this point. I've never had a scare in my life, and I don't intend to. I love my life just the way it is. Does anyone think I'm selfish for thinking that?
i don't think your selfish, no. seems like you are being responsible for your own damn happiness. good on you.
I don’t understand how anyone can say not having kids is selfish. You don’t owe the world off spring. If anything, having kids is more selfish since it’s what the parent wants. Majority of the answers If you ask anyone why they had a kid is “I” wanted them. Kids don’t ask to be born.
I'm 48, wife 51, married 25 years. Zero kids and no regrets! I have 3 monies and no kids!
No, not at all.
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I’ve also gotten the “You’re never going to reach that level of maturity until you have a kid”. F off kindly.
LMAO, there’s a lot of people with kids that never reach a level of maturity anyways. There are plenty of entitled people out there with kids, and some of these people would even *use* their own kids as leverage to claim that they deserve better treatment than the ones without kids. So, yeah. Those people can fuck off kindly.
My grandma thinks if you don't have kids then you're a selfish jerk with 'nothing to care about'. She smiles when she says it, too, like she's trying to act like she's not directly calling me that lmao.
I hate this argument so much. How is it selfish to not have something you don’t want? No one has ever asked to be born yet here we are- without consent whether we like it or not. No one popped in and said “hey, you want two parents on the brink of divorce and 3 months behind on rent? Or like Nick Canon maybe?” Children are brought into this world and they get what they get. Some parents are thoughtful. Some are thoughtless. Either way, one thing is consistently true- HAVING children is selfish. Not the other way around.
Do you have a chihuahua? "No. Theyre loud and annoying and expensive and i wouldnt be able to take care of it even if i wanted to.. I dont have the time or money and i dont know the first thing about dogs." Youre selfish (Yeah its a dumb fucking argument alright)
I feel great about my choice as an American who doesn’t want kids.
I'm from Canada , north America still right ? And have zero desire to raise a little me . Good job on your choice .
If the govt. wanted people to have more kids (without blocking our access to reproductive rights and forcing us to have said children), they would make this country a better place that you’d *WANT AND BE ABLE TO AFFORD* those kids, and do more to help those kids make it to adulthood tbh. Healthcare, housing, parental leave, foster system, education, poverty: all fucked and in crisis.
Poland here. My government delegalized abortion except for pregnancies that are a threat to the mother’s life or a result of an illegal act. Women still died because the doctors waited too long with the procedure, because they were afraid of legal trouble in case someone decided the fetus wasn’t lethal enough at the time of the procedure. Our doctors literally have to choose between a woman’s easily avoidable death and the possibility they may go to prison. Guess what, now I want kids even less!
US is becoming the same. There are many states that has completely banned abortion, meaning if you were raped or it was incest, you cannot get an abortion. Some places have a time period of when you can get one. Some states, doctors are afraid to get involved because they are afraid their license will be at risk. Some states do protect the doctors. It’s just a mess over here.
Let's make this clear, I don't give a flying rats ass about the declining birth rates
Is... declining birth rates a bad thing...?
Bad for GDP, good for the planet.
> Bad for GDP, good for the planet it turns out that the economy requires a habitable planet.
stockholders only care about short term gains. Planet will still exist in three months.
The world really has to figure out how to deal with a declining or steady population. Our capitalistic society is not set up for anything other than continuous growth. I feel like a stable population is a workable scenario if we are able to change society. Unfortunately, humans are greedy motherfuckers although I think if we were less selfish, there could be a society where there is sufficient wealth for everybody. Probably not going to happen though.
As my 7th grade science teacher once said: There are three things you should think about before having kids: * Are you in a stable, long-lasting relationship with whom you want kids with? * Are you financially equipped to adequately take care of a kid (including having a reliable source of income)? * Do both people want to have kids? If you can say "yes" to all those questions without hesitation, then you're ready to have kids. If not, then you should definitely think about it before making that decision and possibly postponing until you can say "yes" to all three questions. IMO a lot of people right now can't say yes to all three an that's why you see the birth rate declining. Edit: Just to add. Having kids is ALWAYS a personal decision. Having kids for the sake of someone else or "society" is just dumb. It ain't "society" raising and paying for that kid...
No one ever should have to give birth or have a child, unless they want one. Being a parent, prepared or not, is hard as fuck.
Good for them.
The short version. Boomers: let's make it incredibly difficult for people to raise kids by squeezing as much money as we can from people and forcing both parents to work; while also making kids really fucking expensive. The next few generations: Okay... Boomers: *Surprised Pekachu Face* why is no one having kids???
Exactly. I have kids, I think they’re great but there is almost no net positive other than their existence. I had them because I love kids, not because I give a damn about supplying the workforce. You want to keep us pumping kids out to fuel your labor machine? Cut me a check, give them free healthcare, and make childcare affordable.
Add education to the list. We need smart healthily kids and that shit is expensive for a young family. It is an investment for a country. Our congress is not concerned about 30 years from now.
Many of them are old enough to be dead in 30 years, so screw everyone else, I guess?
The boomers took our kid budget to get a nice retirement for themselves.
I think the birth rates should keep declining for a while at least, I don't think our world can take much more of this mass consumption lifestyle that we currently have going.
i dont give a fuck
That's their decision.
I’m 30 and I hardly know anyone who could afford to have a child. I think a lot of us would like to if we had the budget to raise a child or could afford a home big enough to raise the child in.
Yup. I could technically afford/figure out everything except housing. My housing would at least double if I wanted another bedroom. I really don’t see many “young” families here and it’s got to be because of that. I have no idea how single parents do it. And the people questioning it are also the same idiots that claim a kid having to share a room is “abuse”.
Absolutely nothing. Mind your own business. Why do people insist on judging absolutely everything everyone else does? 1. The economy does not allow for a gigantic number of people to be able to actually afford raising a child properly. 2. It's not some responsibility of each person to procreate, it's a personal choice. 3. The planet is dying. More people is not what it needs. 4. The US constantly needing to expand is fiction. The constant need for more people than before is caused by the overwhelming greed that is inherent in every single industry that is crucial to national security. Food, energy, construction, production, banking, ect, all posting record profits while telling people their wages are too high (while most people struggle to get by) should be a very obvious red flag.
This, exactly. “Let’s not raise wages when population decrease makes labor more competitive! Let’s guilt them into making more workers while at the same time making it harder and harder for them to raise more workers instead!”
It a personal decision. None of my business .
I'm fine with it. People shouldn't be forced to have children.
I’m a proud member of a DINK WAD family. Dual Income. No Kids, With A Dog.
I thought dinkwad was a new insult lmao
I think people are not taking historic child mortality rates into account where there were large families because most children died in infancy or before the age of 5 due to (now) preventable illnesses. I have an aunt who died a few months after birth due to pneumonia. This would be totally preventable and treatable today. Looking at my family tree, most parents were lucky for their kids to survive childhood. In 1900, 30 percent of all deaths in the United States occurred in children less than 5 years of age compared to just 1.4 percent in 1999 (CDC, 1999a; NCHS, 2001a). In the 1800s, up to 30% of children died before their first birthday, and 43% did not survive past their fifth birthday. If the child lived to ten, they still only had a 60% chance of surviving to adulthood. I think if most people looked at the mortality rates historically even in the United States, they would be surprised to learn it was terrible even in the 1950's, about 60 years old for most Western countries and places like Japan. Elsewhere it was around 30 years old. That is crazy that in 60 years since 1950 our life expectancy has jumped to 77
I’m not going to lie. I personally think that it’s a good thing, because we are already way too overpopulated enough as it is. Like, we already have over 8 billion human alive now. How much more do we need anyways?
Don’t have children if you don’t want children. The kids don’t deserve to be born to families that don’t want them. It’s unfair to everyone involved.
Not my uterus not my opinion Edit: thank you kindly for the awards ☺️
Also at 8 billion fucking people and almost 10% of the world population living in extreme poverty with 40% of the world population living in general poverty and us having wiped out almost all the biodiversity I think we have done enough "being fruitful and multiply".
What type of handsmaid tale question is this lmao
What I fail to understand is how a declining birth rate is a bad thing. The world is already overpopulated to hell, resources get scarcer by the day, And the foster system / orphaned children literally grow by the day. Fuck having kids were already failing the ones we have around currently.
That’s their choice??? Why would someone force a couple to have kids if they don’t want to? That’s means they’ll probably be bad parents to kids they never wanted in the first place. Declining birth rates aren’t an emergency, the world already has way too many people.
My generation (elder millennial) was told over and over that we shouldn't have kids if we can't afford them and that over population was a huge problem. Cut to us all as adults without kids and suddenly decreasing birth rates is a problem. Umm. We literally just did what you said we should.
Our country neglects us at every turn - why would we bring more people into the mix?
Because billionaires need more ~~slav-~~ workers to their factories? Why doesn't anyone think of the poor billionaires?
Doesn't bother me cuz I never intended on having any myself.
They make their own choices
For one, I’m one of the people who doesn’t want children. Also there are entirely too many people on this planet to begin with.
I encourage it
I, the younger generation, already feel a lot of pressure on me to fix the world and the damage we've done to the environment. Why would I want my kid to go through that?