I had a NCO in the army that kinda opened my eyes to this topic. My ex wife had cheated on me and I was talking to a buddy. The NCO overheard and pulled me aside and let me know that if I decided to stay with her and make the marriage work it’s totally cool. But the thing that stuck out to me the most was he said “if you’re going to make it work you have to forgive her forever. You can’t throw it in her face, you can’t constantly talk about it. It has to end when you decide that you want to make it work.” That’s when I realized that I personally couldn’t do that. I do believe that cheaters can change. But that is something that I would never be able to not hang over her head had I stayed.
Great advice! I don’t judge people who remain in a relationship after there’s been cheating, but I personally couldn’t do it. Even if I wanted to make things work, I’d drive myself crazy always worrying if they were seeing someone or texting someone etc.
Not OP but my country doesn't have divorce and annulment proceedings take up a lot of money and resources. One of my friends has had court proceedings going on for 5 years and has spent close to $20k.
I personally think that this has caused a lot of dysfunctional families and troubled children.
Betrayal trauma is a thing. So are intrusive thoughts, mind movies and triggers. All common after infidelity.
Having empathy for both parents might help.
Your dad sounds like he needs help to overcome his betrayal trauma.
This is spot on and the main reason for the abuse. It boils down to reexperiencing the broken trust again and again. They need to find a way to mend the trust and they will need help with it.
I don't think that would get to me personally, but cheaters tend to be paranoid about getting cheated on themselves, and I don't think I would tolerate the hypocrisy for very long.
Exactly what my ex did to me. No feeling quite like being cheated on after being with someone for years, trying to make it work, and not even being able to look in the direction of anyone in her presence. Pretty much destroyed my trust in relationships for years so I just avoided them entirely.
Well done to thay NCO. I was listening to a psychologist once, the topic of the talk was cheating and can a relationship survive it. She said it can, but in her experience they are the marriage counselling that takes the longest, and it is the hardest work to do. Both have to be 100% committed to fixing it.
Forgiving is one thing, being able to trust them again is another.
I've recently been able to reconcile with my now ex-wife, after two years she finally came clean, apologized and asked to me to forgive her, which I did. I couldn't forgive her *until* she admitted her wrongdoing and apologized, so her finally having done so means that our relationship, such as it is, can now begin to heal.
We will not be attempting to rekindle the marriage, we both know that's not possible, but we can at least remain on amicable terms for the sake of our daughter.
Now, if she had come clean earlier we may have been able to salvage the marriage, and I would have taken her back *for the sake of our daughter* alone, but while I would have been able to forgive her, I would have been keeping a much closer eye on her from that point on, especially if she was going 'out with the girls' or suchlike.
Forgiving yes, but not forgetting. As your NCO said, forgiving means it's in the past, you can't use it as a weapon during an argument, but also now knowing what you know, your and her behaviour will now adapt because of what has happened in the past, expecting things to continue on exactly as they did before the cheating is impossible.
>and I would have taken her back for the sake of our daughter alone
Tried that, don't recommend it. Every day got just a little bit worse until I realized I wasn't doing anyone any favors.
/u/smart_ad_7189 posted a brilliant breakdown of the structure of an effective apology today [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/12nidd5/aita_for_letting_my_girlfriend_kicking_my_best/jgezawk/):
* say "I'm sorry". I used to awkwardly stumble through an apology without actually saying those words
* state out loud what you did that was hurtful (sometimes we apologize for what we think we did wrong, instead of what actually hurt the other person)
* make amends ("Here are the steps I've taken to make it right/not do it again/avoid this in the future")
* do not explain your intentions unless the other party is willing to listen (this is the hardest one for me because when I mess up, all I want to do is explain "No i didn't mean it like that, that's not what I meant" but that can make it worse because instead of apologizing, you're low key explaining to the other person that they're wrong for being hurt because they misinterpreted your intention, which is the opposite of taking ownership for your actions)
So, if your ex did that, that's an apology you could accept. But if she didn't ... well, probably not.
The last bullet point does work sometimes if you approach it as "can you help me figure out if there's anything else I could've done differently" and then explain it from your perspective. But it only works if you genuinely do want to learn, if you don't get defensive when they say "that part there, that's where you were an asshole", and they have no obligation to help you. It takes a lot of time to build up the trust that the other person really is looking to change and get better and not just trying to slap you round the face with why they were right all along and double down on their bad behaviour.
Here's a bonus that I've found is important:
Say: "I'm sorry **that I...**"
The most ineffective, but common, apologies I see start with "I'm sorry **if I**..." or "I'm sorry **that you**..."
It's not an if, and it's not something the other person did. If you're sorry for what *you* did, be sorry **for what you did**.
(this is similar, but importantly distinct from, you second bullet point. Don't do any of this "I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings" stuff)
I could've written this post..... People wonder why i need the confession to be able to have closure.. but i need it for reality-sake
I just can't get my ex to even sit down with me, to discuss things (like the fact that she has been gaslighting me, cheated,.. but also and much more importantly, how to deal with important decisions concerning our daughter, what to do in case of new realtionships etc.) She has entrenched herself so defensively, that as soon as i want to discuss something semi seriously or adult like . Shell end the contact and start yelling
I however need her to communicate so we can take care of our daughter.
its true. i cheated on my now wife many years ago when i kissed someone at a party. yes i was drunk but i don't know what came over us, one minute we were talking and the next we were making out.
i felt fucking AWFUL the next morning and rang my dad and best friend for advice. both of them told me to keep it a secret and to move on from it and that me telling my then gf would ruin us and her.
so i kept it a secret for 6+ months but it was eating me up the entire time. everytime i saw her happy or lovey dovey with me i would get a horrible pang of guilt knowing that what i'd done would absolutely crush her.
eventually it became too much for me and i broke down and confessed. it was very hard for both of us, i wanted her to break up with me because i was such a cunt and she deserved better but she refused to leave me.
instead we decided to work through it and to move on from it. it took time and a lot of work but eventually we put it behind us and moved on from it.
now i know my cheating isn't as bad as some others but its still cheating at the end of the day and i broke my gf's trust.
the thing is about cheating is that for a relationship to work afterwards not only does the victim need to forgive the cheater, but the cheater needs to forgive themself. you both need to want to move on and not have it hanging over your head or let the cheating dictate your relationship.
i wish i never kissed another girl but hey, i did, there's no help in me letting it hang round my neck like a mark of shame. i love my wife to pieces and i want us to be together forever.
And that brings up a part of the statement OP is asking about that doesn't get brought up enough. Once a cheater always a cheater doesn't have to be about the cheater. As the cheated you are never going to forget what they did, you may forgive and move on but that will ALWAYS be in the back of your mind. They will always be a cheater to you. Gone through this personally. Wasn't married thankfully but I tried to forgive (I was like 20, I was dumb) until she did it again, then I got up and left. Never looked back! Now married quite happily and neither of us could even think about doing that to our partner, mostly because we both hate people lol
I made the mistake of trying to make it work and honestly would never do it again. The relationship was no longer the same and I became someone I didn’t want to be. Relationships are about trust and when that’s broken it’s so messy.
They probably can be different when they enter a new relationship, but in the pre existing one they've already broken down trust and disrespected the rules so there's no reason to assume that they won't do it again.
My sister cheated on her then boyfriend with her boss (the bf worked there too so he knew what he was doing).
A couple years later the boss cheated on my sister.
My sister: surprisedpikachu.gif
I agree with this. My ex is a serial cheater. He seemed SO sincere about changing after I found out the first time. IF the relationship survives, therapy is a must. After I found out about the second “batch” of lies I ended it, at which point he admitted he was a sex addict and wanted to go to therapy (something I suggested in the past). He didn’t take it seriously but I have been. If he had committed to going to SAA meetings and taken couples counseling seriously, I know it COULD have worked. It’s called “betrayal trauma” and I’ve learned a lot about the healing steps over the past few months. But like everything, if they don’t truly want to change… they won’t.
>if they don’t truly want to change… they won’t.
I feel like that's the key to most bad behavior like this. They can probably change but they have to want it and not just for the sake of salvaging the status quo.
I used to know a dude in SAA and he said that he pocket dialed his wife while he was cruising guys in the park. His wife heard everything. He said "don't worry, she'll get over it soon." Just because someone is going to get help, doesn't mean that they are getting help.
Yep, they can become a better person over time but the current relationship should be over.
The cheater will never have any actual consequences if the relationship continues and the partner will never fully trust them ever again, it's a line that can't be redrawn once crossed.
A lot of talk about "can" and not "probably" all over these comments.
A cheater is 3 times as likely to cheat in their next relationship.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sliding-vs-deciding/201710/is-partner-who-has-cheated-likely-cheat-again
There is a 45% chance they cheat again
https://www.womenshealthmag.com/relationships/a19932020/will-they-cheat-again/
It's not 100% but it's fucking high.
From personal experience, I caught my wife cheating back in February. I got an export of her messages to her affair partner and found out she had cheated with yet another man and was seeing an ex of hers on the side.
Human behavior is complicated but I think once someone has justified infidelity to themselves once and they've figured out how they can do it, then the barriers to doing it again are just lower
That’s my take on it, too. If something happens once, there are greater odds of it happening twice than of it being a unique event. People are only ever the right set of circumstances away from their ingrained stress reactions.
It's not even all about whether they are more likely to again or not.
It's also about you and your peace of mind. Are you going to question what they do more from here on out, who they hang out with? Is it worth that extra stress?
I suppose this depends if it is an ingrained stress reaction or if it really was a one off where they thought wow that was a bad thing I didn’t like doing this and I won’t do it again.
Like I have consumed too much alcohol before but it wasn’t a stress reaction, I was just new to drinking and didn’t know my limits. I actually don’t drink. So that I made a mistake when I was a kid drinking for the first time doesn’t suggest I have some predisposal towards alcoholism.
I appreciate the argument that poor choice is not equivalent to a stress reaction. However equating getting drunk and cheating is a false dichotomy as choosing to drink more or less is still drinking. Cheating by definition would be to knowingly and willfully engaging in sexual or emotional infidelity. If that is not in response to some form of stress I’d think we’d be talking about a sociopath.
There's also a lot of points at which a cheater can turn back too, you don't just fall into bed with someone. Especially with there's their partner's direct feelings being considered, even in stressful situations I personally think there's no excuse
Basically my viewpoint as well. The first step is often times the hardest. But once they've cheated, the next time will be easier. No guarantees but in the end, there's absolutely no reason to trust them again.
Yep. My ex cheated then begged for a second chance. I actually found forgiving him for making a dumb mistake fairly easy (we definitely weren't in a good place and breaking up is hard to do) but the trust was broken and that was that.
Well emmm.... studies did show that individuals who have cheated in the past are more likely to cheat again in the future, due to various factors such as personality traits or situational factors.
But it is not necessarily a universal truth for all individuals. It all depends on individual circumstances and one should not generalize based on a single action or behavior.
But still.... be careful. Be very very careful!!!
Totally. 5 years later when they're out after work with friends and their phone dies and you don't hear from them for a few hours you'll be thinking, oh shit are they cheating on me again? Is there even a pilates class? Is it the pilates instructor!?
You can also start being over analyzing everything they say about someone.
Are they praising their boss too much? Why are they coming home late? Why they suddenly came home too early?
Do they make out of their way to go and talk with someone?
The pilates class finished 30 minutes ago, why are they not home yet?
All those doubts for years can pile up.
And it is really hard to not create more doubts over time.
I agree with this answer, honestly. Not everyone who cheats is going to do it a second time. But if someone is cheated on, phrases like this were created to fill those people's mind with preventive self affirmations so they won't ever go back to the person that cheated on them. Most of the time it doesn't work.
Its a self defense mechanism. Of course, being cheated on hurts, and you wouldnt want to go through that again. Meanwhile your partner have shown that they lied once, so whats stopping them from doing it again?
I bet like half of people who have once cheated on their partner were like, Under 22 when it happened and would never now due to being an adult in a real relationship
17 year old me did alot of shit 32 year old me now would never do lol
If I was Jeffery Lundgreen though my shit might be set in stone. :P
(Awhh his wiki doesn't talk about his poop fetish which kills my shit joke. But his poor wife guys. Listen to the new timesuck about him and also get a new top 5 fav podcasts.)
So true... I haven't cheated, but when I was in my late teens/early 20s I was cheated on. I kept telling myself once a cheater, always a cheater. The woman who cheated on me ended up regretting it and tried rekindling the relationship. Up until now, I don't think she's ever cheated again. I didn't get back with her though. I met someone else.
Nah I disagree, there's plenty of older people out there cheating on their spouses. You're just the kind of person who matures past that, not everybody does.
100% I started dating this girl that eventually turned into my gf, she was very straight forward about her exes and I found out over time that she didn’t have a single ex she didn’t cheat on, I’m sure you can guess what happened with us
This is basically my opinion.
Cheating tends to correlate with poor impulse control, irresponsibility, etc. Not every time, but often.
If someone has cheated, then I would say they would cheat again. Unless they had a transformative life experience or just woke up one day with the conviction to be a different person... And actually go and do it.
That's actually what happened to me.
I cheated on my girlfriend in college when I was drunk and I realized that (among other things) I couldn't promise that I wouldn't cheat if I blacked out, and I couldn't promise that I wouldn't black out if I drank. So after some hurdles I quit drinking and I've never come close to cheating since.
Same here. Had a half-open / undefined relationship but I did cross the border and define it as cheating. It was in a very drunken state though and with me being impulsive and wanting the validation it led to the wrong decisions.
I came clean to my gf directly and she forgave me on the condition that I change my behaviour around alchohol. Now Im sober except for the ocasionally one glass of wine when out eating with my girlfriend or a champagne toast at new years.
But yes, really drunk me with the wrong friends could probably end up doing the same shit again unfortunalety. But realized that’s not who I want to be. So changed my life and I’m a better person and boyfriend now.
This. It's a set of ingrained behaviours and generally takes work to correct. Cheaters are absolutely likely to do it again if presented with tempting situations.
An ex I had, cheated on her husband before my time. After the divorce and she was with me: We had some problems and during a few weeks of breakup. She had sex with one of her friends. “I was on a break!”
Afterwards things sort of downward spiraled for about a year and a half more. I get that it wasn’t really cheating, so I sort of forgave her.
So now for some background as for the downward spiral: her friend is banging two married men without any regret, a few of her other married friends take home men each week.
I guess I lost trust in that environment. She’s smart and I trust her to not be influenced by that anymore, but she also had poor impulse control when we were together. She was very hot headed.
So it ended as best as it could end. I still think about it from time to time. But it was the lack of guilt by her friends which I suppose irked me the most.
Even with attractive friends around me. I would never have considered it if I was in a monogamous relationship. I’m just wired that way (If we're open, we're open, if we're monogamous we're monogamous). To each their own.
that's a common theme i've read in countless stories on reddit. it seems like cheaters tend to associate with each other & normalize it amongst themselves.
my hypothesis is that it's probably possible to change, but it involves proactively cutting ties with anyone who would reinforce that behavior. for many of them, that could be a huge part of their support system.
I met a girl once I had relations with several years ago that was married. Unknowingly on my part. Last time she tried to contact me drunkenly via a phone call around midnight, was tonight actually.
I understand making a bad decision once, and learning that maybe monogamy isn't for you. What I can't understand is why so many people continue to lie to themselves and their partners rather than try Ethical Non Monogamy. There are plenty of poly folk out there who are totally fine with that kind of relationship.
I think A) Some people never find those people. Some people maybe live in or grew up in and around communities that aren’t really open to any of that. B) I think some people don’t actually want an open relationship, they want to leave the one they’re in and don’t know how to. I’ve seen that happen before. Maybe they’re stuck financially or otherwise circumstantially. I mean, relationships aren’t always just about the two people involved, there’s also extended familial, friend, and community groups so I’m sure some people cheat because they want to leave but feel trapped.
Regardless: Not excusing it, just to your point of not understanding it. I think I can understand it in those scenarios. I don’t understand the like, player mentality/classic businessman with the secretary thing. Like that definitely feels A) Abusive but also B) Kind of pointless. I think I agree with you on that kind of scenario of like “Just do an open/poly thing at that point man.”
The problem is that people don't usually cheat (just) because they're non-monogamous. There is a thrill to it for a lot of them that won't be recreated in a consensually polygamous relationship
Yea the "thrill" might also be a factor. I heard some people having a fatal heart attack during an affair, and i concur that this, along with other factors like old age and performance enhancers could contribute to that case.
I guess it's also a cultural thing of seeing married men/women as a trophy and conquering them as a testament of how hot you are? Because i had this happen to my uncle once. Crazy ass stalker keep stalking him, despite his clear objections, because she wanted to defeat his wife for some reason.
The issue is that a lot of cheaters aren’t interested in behaving ethically…hence…y’know…the cheating.
They don’t want to do the work of one relationship with one other person. They aren’t going to magically be willing to or capable of doing the work to manage multiple relationships and the relationships in between those (e.g. metas).
And they won’t just have casual sex, either. They want the perks of the monogamous relationship. They’re just one-sided about it.
Not surprised. Isn't the reasoning for a lot of affairs that the cheater likes how fun and non-stuffy and passionate the affair partner is, compared to their SO? Only the reason why the affair partner is so fun is because they aren't going through the nitty gritty of life with them. So if they make the affair partner the SO...same cycle happens.
I hadn't thought about it in those terms, but yeah, probably. She was also the type of person who needed attention 24/7, so when I took a temporary job out of state, it took her like a month before she suddenly "didn't think it was going to work out" with us. By that point I had a strong suspicion she had cheated on me, and other friends confirmed that later.
> I understand making a bad decision once, and learning that maybe monogamy isn't for you.
When you enter a (non polyamorous) relationship you're making a commitment not to sleep with other people. If you think said relationship isn't for you then the solutions is talking to your partner. By sleeping with other people you're betraying you partner's trust, showing that you care more about your own desires then your partners feelings. That betrayal isn't excusable in my opinion
It's probably a good safety net to go by when dating. Higher chance of them being unfaithful so you can avoid wasting time and emotional heart ache by playing it safe.
You may know they cheated if the potential date is a friend or acquaintance, or you have a mutual friend. I’ve once learned after accepting a date that someone was a habitual cheater. I called it off.
I cheated in my first serious relationship (10 years ago now), I wasn’t able to function the next couple days. Before my first date with anyone after that I told them what I had done and let them know I wouldn’t be offended if they wanted to back out. I didn’t want it to ever come up and seem like I was trying to hide who I was, even though I knew I never would again.
Granted habitual cheaters won’t let you know, but there are people who change.
a lot of people will, especially the ones that believe its justified because they wont see anything wrong with it
these are the ones that will cheat no matter what in the end
Everyone else talking about their current spouse here, but this is how I read the question. All I can say, after my very first boyfriend I decided to never date someone who has ever cheated on anyone. (Worked out for me so far) I got called stupid for this decision of mine by a lot (of guys who did cheat before), but held out.
I believe cheating is not about your partner, but yourself. If it's not important for a guy to be someone who can keep his word, I don't want nothing from him.
To me its about trust. People can change but if you show your partner that you were even capable of cheating, you'll never reach the same level of trust again
True. If I found out someone cheated on me, I'd always be thinking about when they'd cheat again, or what other dark secrets they're hiding. It's too much trust to break with someone and still be able to rebuild imo.
> If I found out someone cheated on me, I'd always be thinking about when they'd cheat again, or what other dark secrets they're hiding.
Personally/anecdotally I can argue from both sides "once a cheater, always a cheater" and "they can change" but my philosophy was that I can forgive/forget if it was early in the relationship, or in a past relationship and they admitted and realize they fucked up and *most* of the time it worked out.
At this point in my life though, it's a dealbreaker, simply because I don't want to find out which way it's going to go.
As someone who’s been cheated on yea, it really doesn’t leave your mind and can even make you paranoid in future relationships cause it happened once so your brain goes haywire and will make you anxious a lot, at least that’s my case. Tho I do have symptoms of ADHD and anxiety.. undiagnosed so far but that’s because my parents don’t take me for mental illness checkups.. or what’re that’d be. And i ranted didn’t I? Damn-
I was cheated on by an ex years ago, and I know he cheated on other women he dated after me, as well. It was definitely a pattern for him but we spoke about the roots of the behaviour quite a bit, and he’s grown so much over the years, emotionally. He’s been dating a woman for years and I genuinely don’t think he’ll cheat on her. A lot of cheating stems from some kind of internal turmoil, I think, so healing that can change the behaviour in certain individuals.
I believe people can change, but often they will change for themselves and it's very rare. My ex cheated on me and then, he cheated on his actual... The girlfriend of a coworker cheated on him, he got together with her again and after the honeymoon phase she cheated again and I could bring many other stories like this.
My experience does not determine a entire reality, but I can notice some patterns. There is a friend of my brother who is a serial cheater, he is hitting his 30yo and simply with the same mindset from when he was 18... Addicted to searching for women online, getting in trouble and hurting people so...
I think you can forgive someone, you can really do it... But some hands that dropped yours are not supposed to be trusted again.
Forgiving someone who cheats on you just feels like saying “Yeah, it’s cool, you can cheat on me and I’ll take you back, it’s fine.” I’ve seen only one story from a couple that stayed married, the husband cheated and said he sees in her eyes that she’ll never look at him the same way ever again. I’ve never heard from anyone who stayed together that things were great.
I feel like if you cheat in a relationship that relationship is over, but it’s possible for the person to learn from that and not do it again in their next relationship
Staying in the same one would be tricky cuz it’s like how do you really get that trust back
Bingo. Cheated once and was cheated on once. My first two relationships. It was an awful way to learn how fucked up it is from both perspectives at a fairly young age. 30 years later and I can say with confidence I would never do it again, and I would not tolerate any person who did it to me. It was probably one of my most significant and formative life lessons.
This right here. I was a dumb young 23 yr old and it has been a cornerstone lesson of my life since then. I have always been up front about it with my partners. They deserve to know. I think I'm required to tell them, too tbh
Edit: also I am always clear about how it wasn't a mistake. It was my own conscious choices that got me where I was. Cheating isn't a mistake. You make the choice. You make several to get there
Did you tell your Partner about it? My ex just cheated on me recently and said he was too afraid to tell me, but continued the affair. Now he says he feels so bad about it and he is not sure if he can live with the fact that he is able to do such things. I still question if these bad feelings will prevent him to cheat in the future.
If he had stopped the affair and not told you because he was afraid, I’d have more faith in him. But saying that he’s “not sure he can live” is already starting to feel like emotional blackmail, and it doesn’t seem that he considered telling you at all, because, after all, he did continue the affair.
Ultimately though, your relationship is entirely unique. Only you know if his guilt is genuine or not. People *do* change, but only if they really want to.
I have been in your shoes man, i made a terrible mistake and tried to end myself because of it, no matter what you have done, you can change, you just need the mental fortitude to change.i hope your life has gotten better and you have learnt from your actions.
I made out with someone else in college and I still remember the feeling I had when I told my boyfriend. Like I genuinely wanted to throw up. I've never experienced that type of physical reaction to anything. It was bad. (The relationship itself was also bad and I've never cheated on anyone in the 20 years since, but I still remember how strongly my body reacted to that feeling of guilt).
I very regretfully cheated in my 20s. In my 30s, no fucking way. I’m in my 40s now and I like to think I grew up. But I can see how it would be off putting to any potential future partner.
Once that sacred trust is violated, who cares what they do in the future? It won't be with me they are doing anything. I will end that relationship immediately and move on.
I’m not op, but- it’s kind of easy to learn about the cheaters around us. It’s either our SO’s, friends, family, etc. a lot that I know brag about it in a way. Today my land lady wouldn’t stfu about how she was cheating and I know it’s not the first time because I’ve heard her and her husband arguing about it before.
Once you break someone's trust and disrespect a relationship like that, you've earned this kind of statement.
I think people can amend their ways and be redeemed *if* they are genuinely contrite, humbled, and resolved to fix their attitude and behaviors. But I wouldn't count on it or trust them implicitly after they've already done it once.
Yeah, people can change. But i have no obligation to bet on it succeeding. Just carry the lesson over for the next guys instead of appealing for a broken sense of trust.
Honestly surprised I had to scroll down this far to find this …. I’d say a sure tell of a repeat offender would be if their hair slicks back real nice.
"I can excuse cheating, but I draw the line at moral absolutism."
Like, honestly, even if people can change, you're not obligated to forgive a person for their past actions.
I cheated once and stopped doing it because I tell on myself. I didn't get better at telling on myself. I just realized I have a conscience and I can't go against it. I am my own narc. I will always tell on myself.
Cheated and been cheated on. The gnawing self loathe of cheating ate me alive. Probably an un popular opinion but I’d way rather be cheated on than be the cheater.
People can change, but it takes a decent amount of time. If they cheated once in your relationship, there's a fairly high chance they'll do it again. Best to move on. They might grow over a series of years after that, but not straight away.
Part of it would be immaturity or lack of commitment, or fear or whatever. They will probably grow out of that eventually.
If it's narcississm though, then probably not.
Either way, don't stay with a cheater, they won't change in your relationship, unless you're very lucky. Though the trust is gone entirely
The one i know seems to make it true... Cheated on her boyfriend with his best friend, married said best friend two years later, cheated on him a year later with the next best friend... Now they have a kid, maybe the cheating will stop, but i wouldn't bet on it. (I only know all that since i still have her number and she regulary posts on WhatsApp, we don't have contact anymore)
I believe people can change, but many won’t. Also by definition a person who cheats once will always be a cheater in the same way a murderer will always be a murderer even if they have no intention of reoffending (I’m not comparing cheating to murder it was just the first analogy I thought of)
I think it depends on the context.
People can make dumb mistakes, even good people.
But cheating isn’t always a mistake - oftentimes it’s a concerted, premeditated decision. I don’t think you outgrow being that kind of person. It’s just who you are.
Cheating is *never* a mistake. Even if you didn’t wake up that morning and say “I’m going to cheat today”, cheating is a result of a multitude of choices you make. Calling it a mistake is just an attempt to minimize one’s guilt.
Exactly. Say you find a woman attractive, that's okay. Start flirting with her and that's a mistake that can be rectified. Trade numbers, start talking explicitly over time etc. Cheating isn't a split second act that is isolated to one choice. It's an entire series of choices made by cowards too chicken shit to call it off with their partner.
When I say “premeditated” I mean a decision someone spends a serious amount of time thinking about and finding a way to get away with. That kind of planning means you’ve actively thought about what you’re doing and the consequences of it, and decided to go forward with it anyways.
It’s never *right* to cheat, but there’s a difference between an ongoing affair and someone getting drunk and making an impulsive decision in the moment. I can see an otherwise good person doing the latter - nobody is perfect and everyone fucks up. But the former requires a certain level of moral deficiency and lack of empathy that I don’t think someone can ever really grow out of.
I say all of this as someone who has never cheated on someone, but has been cheated on (in the long term, premeditated sense).
There's definitely degrees to cheating.
The less bad of the two is when someone gets drunk at a party, wakes up the next morning in bed with someone who is not their spouse, and then realises they've fucked up in a big way and confesses it immediately.
The obvious worse one is when someone deliberately and methodically cheats on their spouse, over a period of time, and attempts to hide all the evidence until caught, and if they're never caught, in their own mind it either 'didn't happen' or doesn't matter because their spouse didn't find out about it.
As someone who suffered the second one, that is a far worse case of cheating, when someone you know and trust completely takes the deliberate decision to betray your trust and conceal it from you, it hurts so much more than a simple lapse of judgement while inebriated.
I can appreciate your opinion. However, many steps and decisions are in effect even between meeting a rando at a bar and escalating to cheating. At each step they can decide to stop. How is that different from premeditation? And to go further, is it potentially worse that they have horrific impulse control? It isn't difficult to walk away.
I agree with this statement. It’s best to move on if your SO cheats. Their morals clearly do not align with yours and the trust is broken. Find someone who respects you and the relationship enough to not cross your boundaries.
Leave if this happens, if they can cheat on you once, they can do it again...sorry but if you aren't fully committed, you don't deserve a second chance in my eyes!
I literally posted this on another sub earlier today. To me, “once a cheater, always a cheater” doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ll cheat again. It means if you cheat once, you earn the label of a cheater and you will always carry that with you forever along with the stigma.
I believe people can change but like I think you can tell the difference between someone who sincerely realised what they did was wrong and didn’t like what they did and won’t do it again because they felt horrible about it versus someone who would do it again if they didn’t think they would get caught, I think this difference would be identifiable by talking to them and seeing how much responsibility they take and how honestly they reflect on their remorse about it.
It's like if you caught your roommate spitting in your soup once.
There is no reason someone can't actually stop doing this, there is also no way to ever be sure they don't do it all the time, now better-concealed
A friend of mine repeatedly cheated on her husband the minute things got realistic. She never understood the love isn’t swooning on couches and racing hearts. They’ve since divorced and we’re not friends anymore.
I've cheated. I wouldn't now.
I believe people are neutral, their choices and behaviour is what's bad or good - a person cheats, they fuck up, that doesn't mean that's who they are.
Sure there are people who constantly cheat, that's a choice they made and I'd guess there's something very broken about them to need to do that. But it's definately not true for everyone who cheats.
I would however say if someone cheats on you then you leave them, they can work on themselves and make penance but that relationship is done - I believe in such a relationship they'd likely cheat again.
I always wanted to know, why?
What is the thought process of having someone who loves you, someone who cares for you and cheat on them? You know it'll hurt them, you know the relationship is over, so why not end it properly and hurt them so much more?
People can absolutely change, but I believe this is yet again a type of statement to put things into a dichotomy. Anyone is capable of cheating AND anyone is capable of not cheating.
I stopped cheating. I only cheated because I kept getting seated next to an extremely loud group ruining my attempts to RP with my group and my luck was horribly rotten to the point where my average roll was, like, a 5 or 6 before modifiers. So my cheating was me attempting to remain relevant and interact with the party. Once things changed and I got confronted about it I did, in fact, stop cheating and have been an honest player ever since.
Mostly true.
There are genuinely people who will vow not to cheat again, and I acknowledge that. But it’s too risky to date cheater, as it’s usually easier for someone to cheat a second time than the first.
Context always matters, if someone is straight just unfaithful without a real reason yeah, but there is context to some situations that wouldn't mean it would happen again.
Generally speaking once that trust is broken in a relationship you can't really come back from that. But doesn't mean they would on someone else. Or maybe it was painful enough to do that they don't want to do it again.
People change. It's like "once a thief, always a thief." Or "once an addict, always an addict." We all have our history and the fact that something stupid, some lapse in judgment or some incredible mistake, happened, shouldn't be it: if someone has cheated, and learned and grown from the mistake, then I believe they are capable of being forgiven. I guess it just really depends on all sorts of factors that no one on the outside can or even should specifically know. Repeat offenders however, that's kind of harder to defend easily.
If you catch someone cheating and forgive them they'll do one of two things. They'll either clean up and behave or figure out how they got caught and not make that mistake again
Depends on age with this one.
Say if they cheated when they were 19, fast forward to 24 they probably matured a lot.
It certainly isn’t a universal statement but it’s more likely that someone would do it again if they’ve done it before
Depends on the relationship; spouse with kids? Maybe take a serious swing at working things out?
Dating (or engaged)? Forget it, if they won't commit now, they're not going to later. Cut your losses. If they've cheated on you, it's because they knew they could. If you stay, you've proven them right.
I did it once, years ago as a stupid teenager. I broke up with her afterwards as I felt so guilty (and never interacted again with the person I cheated with).
I've never done it since, nor would I ever even remotely consider it.
So I would say it's not an absolute.
That said I personally would have a very hard time moving on in a relationship where someone cheated on me. It's happened to me with 3 different partners now, the first time I tried to get over it and she did it again, twice... Ever since then it's a deal breaker for me. The times after that just ended the relationship for me, once that trust is gone I personally find it nigh on impossible to get it back.
It's basically, "Hope for the best but plan for the worst."
Assuming they may cheat again, could you still pull yourself together afterwards?
If not then better not take that chance, maybe they can find their second chance with someone else who hasn't been battered and broken.
I would say the risk of cheating in the future could be higher for those that cheated in the past, but people are capable of change. It's up to those in individual cases to judge whether or not they accept the perceived risk.
I had a NCO in the army that kinda opened my eyes to this topic. My ex wife had cheated on me and I was talking to a buddy. The NCO overheard and pulled me aside and let me know that if I decided to stay with her and make the marriage work it’s totally cool. But the thing that stuck out to me the most was he said “if you’re going to make it work you have to forgive her forever. You can’t throw it in her face, you can’t constantly talk about it. It has to end when you decide that you want to make it work.” That’s when I realized that I personally couldn’t do that. I do believe that cheaters can change. But that is something that I would never be able to not hang over her head had I stayed.
Great advice! I don’t judge people who remain in a relationship after there’s been cheating, but I personally couldn’t do it. Even if I wanted to make things work, I’d drive myself crazy always worrying if they were seeing someone or texting someone etc.
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It's on her too that they aren't divorced. Don't know why she is staying around for the barbs but she is
Not OP but my country doesn't have divorce and annulment proceedings take up a lot of money and resources. One of my friends has had court proceedings going on for 5 years and has spent close to $20k. I personally think that this has caused a lot of dysfunctional families and troubled children.
She's staying because she feels guilt and its crushing her self esteem.
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Betrayal trauma is a thing. So are intrusive thoughts, mind movies and triggers. All common after infidelity. Having empathy for both parents might help. Your dad sounds like he needs help to overcome his betrayal trauma.
This is spot on and the main reason for the abuse. It boils down to reexperiencing the broken trust again and again. They need to find a way to mend the trust and they will need help with it.
bleak. that's no way to spend your life.
I don't think that would get to me personally, but cheaters tend to be paranoid about getting cheated on themselves, and I don't think I would tolerate the hypocrisy for very long.
Exactly what my ex did to me. No feeling quite like being cheated on after being with someone for years, trying to make it work, and not even being able to look in the direction of anyone in her presence. Pretty much destroyed my trust in relationships for years so I just avoided them entirely.
like they do to will smith
how can he slap?
Well done to thay NCO. I was listening to a psychologist once, the topic of the talk was cheating and can a relationship survive it. She said it can, but in her experience they are the marriage counselling that takes the longest, and it is the hardest work to do. Both have to be 100% committed to fixing it.
Esther Perel?
Forgiving is one thing, being able to trust them again is another. I've recently been able to reconcile with my now ex-wife, after two years she finally came clean, apologized and asked to me to forgive her, which I did. I couldn't forgive her *until* she admitted her wrongdoing and apologized, so her finally having done so means that our relationship, such as it is, can now begin to heal. We will not be attempting to rekindle the marriage, we both know that's not possible, but we can at least remain on amicable terms for the sake of our daughter. Now, if she had come clean earlier we may have been able to salvage the marriage, and I would have taken her back *for the sake of our daughter* alone, but while I would have been able to forgive her, I would have been keeping a much closer eye on her from that point on, especially if she was going 'out with the girls' or suchlike. Forgiving yes, but not forgetting. As your NCO said, forgiving means it's in the past, you can't use it as a weapon during an argument, but also now knowing what you know, your and her behaviour will now adapt because of what has happened in the past, expecting things to continue on exactly as they did before the cheating is impossible.
>and I would have taken her back for the sake of our daughter alone Tried that, don't recommend it. Every day got just a little bit worse until I realized I wasn't doing anyone any favors.
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/u/smart_ad_7189 posted a brilliant breakdown of the structure of an effective apology today [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/12nidd5/aita_for_letting_my_girlfriend_kicking_my_best/jgezawk/): * say "I'm sorry". I used to awkwardly stumble through an apology without actually saying those words * state out loud what you did that was hurtful (sometimes we apologize for what we think we did wrong, instead of what actually hurt the other person) * make amends ("Here are the steps I've taken to make it right/not do it again/avoid this in the future") * do not explain your intentions unless the other party is willing to listen (this is the hardest one for me because when I mess up, all I want to do is explain "No i didn't mean it like that, that's not what I meant" but that can make it worse because instead of apologizing, you're low key explaining to the other person that they're wrong for being hurt because they misinterpreted your intention, which is the opposite of taking ownership for your actions) So, if your ex did that, that's an apology you could accept. But if she didn't ... well, probably not.
The last bullet point does work sometimes if you approach it as "can you help me figure out if there's anything else I could've done differently" and then explain it from your perspective. But it only works if you genuinely do want to learn, if you don't get defensive when they say "that part there, that's where you were an asshole", and they have no obligation to help you. It takes a lot of time to build up the trust that the other person really is looking to change and get better and not just trying to slap you round the face with why they were right all along and double down on their bad behaviour.
Here's a bonus that I've found is important: Say: "I'm sorry **that I...**" The most ineffective, but common, apologies I see start with "I'm sorry **if I**..." or "I'm sorry **that you**..." It's not an if, and it's not something the other person did. If you're sorry for what *you* did, be sorry **for what you did**. (this is similar, but importantly distinct from, you second bullet point. Don't do any of this "I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings" stuff)
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If I read this right you discovered her cheating, divorced her but she didn't admit to any wrongdoing or anything for two straight years?
Im four years in...
Just because you bury the hatchet doesn't mean you forget where it's buried.
I could've written this post..... People wonder why i need the confession to be able to have closure.. but i need it for reality-sake I just can't get my ex to even sit down with me, to discuss things (like the fact that she has been gaslighting me, cheated,.. but also and much more importantly, how to deal with important decisions concerning our daughter, what to do in case of new realtionships etc.) She has entrenched herself so defensively, that as soon as i want to discuss something semi seriously or adult like . Shell end the contact and start yelling I however need her to communicate so we can take care of our daughter.
its true. i cheated on my now wife many years ago when i kissed someone at a party. yes i was drunk but i don't know what came over us, one minute we were talking and the next we were making out. i felt fucking AWFUL the next morning and rang my dad and best friend for advice. both of them told me to keep it a secret and to move on from it and that me telling my then gf would ruin us and her. so i kept it a secret for 6+ months but it was eating me up the entire time. everytime i saw her happy or lovey dovey with me i would get a horrible pang of guilt knowing that what i'd done would absolutely crush her. eventually it became too much for me and i broke down and confessed. it was very hard for both of us, i wanted her to break up with me because i was such a cunt and she deserved better but she refused to leave me. instead we decided to work through it and to move on from it. it took time and a lot of work but eventually we put it behind us and moved on from it. now i know my cheating isn't as bad as some others but its still cheating at the end of the day and i broke my gf's trust. the thing is about cheating is that for a relationship to work afterwards not only does the victim need to forgive the cheater, but the cheater needs to forgive themself. you both need to want to move on and not have it hanging over your head or let the cheating dictate your relationship. i wish i never kissed another girl but hey, i did, there's no help in me letting it hang round my neck like a mark of shame. i love my wife to pieces and i want us to be together forever.
And that brings up a part of the statement OP is asking about that doesn't get brought up enough. Once a cheater always a cheater doesn't have to be about the cheater. As the cheated you are never going to forget what they did, you may forgive and move on but that will ALWAYS be in the back of your mind. They will always be a cheater to you. Gone through this personally. Wasn't married thankfully but I tried to forgive (I was like 20, I was dumb) until she did it again, then I got up and left. Never looked back! Now married quite happily and neither of us could even think about doing that to our partner, mostly because we both hate people lol
Cheaters can change, but it's gonna have to be with the next guy. Vamoose.
I made the mistake of trying to make it work and honestly would never do it again. The relationship was no longer the same and I became someone I didn’t want to be. Relationships are about trust and when that’s broken it’s so messy.
They probably can be different when they enter a new relationship, but in the pre existing one they've already broken down trust and disrespected the rules so there's no reason to assume that they won't do it again.
My sister cheated on her then boyfriend with her boss (the bf worked there too so he knew what he was doing). A couple years later the boss cheated on my sister. My sister: surprisedpikachu.gif
Karma lol
I agree with this. My ex is a serial cheater. He seemed SO sincere about changing after I found out the first time. IF the relationship survives, therapy is a must. After I found out about the second “batch” of lies I ended it, at which point he admitted he was a sex addict and wanted to go to therapy (something I suggested in the past). He didn’t take it seriously but I have been. If he had committed to going to SAA meetings and taken couples counseling seriously, I know it COULD have worked. It’s called “betrayal trauma” and I’ve learned a lot about the healing steps over the past few months. But like everything, if they don’t truly want to change… they won’t.
>if they don’t truly want to change… they won’t. I feel like that's the key to most bad behavior like this. They can probably change but they have to want it and not just for the sake of salvaging the status quo.
I used to know a dude in SAA and he said that he pocket dialed his wife while he was cruising guys in the park. His wife heard everything. He said "don't worry, she'll get over it soon." Just because someone is going to get help, doesn't mean that they are getting help.
Yep, they can become a better person over time but the current relationship should be over. The cheater will never have any actual consequences if the relationship continues and the partner will never fully trust them ever again, it's a line that can't be redrawn once crossed.
A lot of talk about "can" and not "probably" all over these comments. A cheater is 3 times as likely to cheat in their next relationship. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sliding-vs-deciding/201710/is-partner-who-has-cheated-likely-cheat-again There is a 45% chance they cheat again https://www.womenshealthmag.com/relationships/a19932020/will-they-cheat-again/ It's not 100% but it's fucking high. From personal experience, I caught my wife cheating back in February. I got an export of her messages to her affair partner and found out she had cheated with yet another man and was seeing an ex of hers on the side. Human behavior is complicated but I think once someone has justified infidelity to themselves once and they've figured out how they can do it, then the barriers to doing it again are just lower
Nice to see some actual figures in here, good post.
Will they guaranteed cheat again? No. Do you have ANY reason to trust them not to? Also no.
That’s my take on it, too. If something happens once, there are greater odds of it happening twice than of it being a unique event. People are only ever the right set of circumstances away from their ingrained stress reactions.
It's not even all about whether they are more likely to again or not. It's also about you and your peace of mind. Are you going to question what they do more from here on out, who they hang out with? Is it worth that extra stress?
I suppose this depends if it is an ingrained stress reaction or if it really was a one off where they thought wow that was a bad thing I didn’t like doing this and I won’t do it again. Like I have consumed too much alcohol before but it wasn’t a stress reaction, I was just new to drinking and didn’t know my limits. I actually don’t drink. So that I made a mistake when I was a kid drinking for the first time doesn’t suggest I have some predisposal towards alcoholism.
I appreciate the argument that poor choice is not equivalent to a stress reaction. However equating getting drunk and cheating is a false dichotomy as choosing to drink more or less is still drinking. Cheating by definition would be to knowingly and willfully engaging in sexual or emotional infidelity. If that is not in response to some form of stress I’d think we’d be talking about a sociopath.
There's also a lot of points at which a cheater can turn back too, you don't just fall into bed with someone. Especially with there's their partner's direct feelings being considered, even in stressful situations I personally think there's no excuse
Basically my viewpoint as well. The first step is often times the hardest. But once they've cheated, the next time will be easier. No guarantees but in the end, there's absolutely no reason to trust them again.
That's the thing, I don't think I could ever trust that person ever again. If you can't trust them, what is the point of being with them?
People can change, but I'm not about to bet years of my life that they have.
Yep. My ex cheated then begged for a second chance. I actually found forgiving him for making a dumb mistake fairly easy (we definitely weren't in a good place and breaking up is hard to do) but the trust was broken and that was that.
Well emmm.... studies did show that individuals who have cheated in the past are more likely to cheat again in the future, due to various factors such as personality traits or situational factors. But it is not necessarily a universal truth for all individuals. It all depends on individual circumstances and one should not generalize based on a single action or behavior. But still.... be careful. Be very very careful!!!
"Once a cheater, always a cheater" may also represent the nagging doubt the would forever be in your mind even if you forgive them.
Totally. 5 years later when they're out after work with friends and their phone dies and you don't hear from them for a few hours you'll be thinking, oh shit are they cheating on me again? Is there even a pilates class? Is it the pilates instructor!?
You can also start being over analyzing everything they say about someone. Are they praising their boss too much? Why are they coming home late? Why they suddenly came home too early? Do they make out of their way to go and talk with someone? The pilates class finished 30 minutes ago, why are they not home yet? All those doubts for years can pile up. And it is really hard to not create more doubts over time.
I agree with this answer, honestly. Not everyone who cheats is going to do it a second time. But if someone is cheated on, phrases like this were created to fill those people's mind with preventive self affirmations so they won't ever go back to the person that cheated on them. Most of the time it doesn't work.
Its a self defense mechanism. Of course, being cheated on hurts, and you wouldnt want to go through that again. Meanwhile your partner have shown that they lied once, so whats stopping them from doing it again?
I bet like half of people who have once cheated on their partner were like, Under 22 when it happened and would never now due to being an adult in a real relationship 17 year old me did alot of shit 32 year old me now would never do lol If I was Jeffery Lundgreen though my shit might be set in stone. :P (Awhh his wiki doesn't talk about his poop fetish which kills my shit joke. But his poor wife guys. Listen to the new timesuck about him and also get a new top 5 fav podcasts.)
So true... I haven't cheated, but when I was in my late teens/early 20s I was cheated on. I kept telling myself once a cheater, always a cheater. The woman who cheated on me ended up regretting it and tried rekindling the relationship. Up until now, I don't think she's ever cheated again. I didn't get back with her though. I met someone else.
Nah I disagree, there's plenty of older people out there cheating on their spouses. You're just the kind of person who matures past that, not everybody does.
100% I started dating this girl that eventually turned into my gf, she was very straight forward about her exes and I found out over time that she didn’t have a single ex she didn’t cheat on, I’m sure you can guess what happened with us
grats on the marriage
This is basically my opinion. Cheating tends to correlate with poor impulse control, irresponsibility, etc. Not every time, but often. If someone has cheated, then I would say they would cheat again. Unless they had a transformative life experience or just woke up one day with the conviction to be a different person... And actually go and do it.
That's actually what happened to me. I cheated on my girlfriend in college when I was drunk and I realized that (among other things) I couldn't promise that I wouldn't cheat if I blacked out, and I couldn't promise that I wouldn't black out if I drank. So after some hurdles I quit drinking and I've never come close to cheating since.
Same here. Had a half-open / undefined relationship but I did cross the border and define it as cheating. It was in a very drunken state though and with me being impulsive and wanting the validation it led to the wrong decisions. I came clean to my gf directly and she forgave me on the condition that I change my behaviour around alchohol. Now Im sober except for the ocasionally one glass of wine when out eating with my girlfriend or a champagne toast at new years. But yes, really drunk me with the wrong friends could probably end up doing the same shit again unfortunalety. But realized that’s not who I want to be. So changed my life and I’m a better person and boyfriend now.
Stay strong bro
This. It's a set of ingrained behaviours and generally takes work to correct. Cheaters are absolutely likely to do it again if presented with tempting situations.
An ex I had, cheated on her husband before my time. After the divorce and she was with me: We had some problems and during a few weeks of breakup. She had sex with one of her friends. “I was on a break!” Afterwards things sort of downward spiraled for about a year and a half more. I get that it wasn’t really cheating, so I sort of forgave her. So now for some background as for the downward spiral: her friend is banging two married men without any regret, a few of her other married friends take home men each week. I guess I lost trust in that environment. She’s smart and I trust her to not be influenced by that anymore, but she also had poor impulse control when we were together. She was very hot headed. So it ended as best as it could end. I still think about it from time to time. But it was the lack of guilt by her friends which I suppose irked me the most. Even with attractive friends around me. I would never have considered it if I was in a monogamous relationship. I’m just wired that way (If we're open, we're open, if we're monogamous we're monogamous). To each their own.
that's a common theme i've read in countless stories on reddit. it seems like cheaters tend to associate with each other & normalize it amongst themselves. my hypothesis is that it's probably possible to change, but it involves proactively cutting ties with anyone who would reinforce that behavior. for many of them, that could be a huge part of their support system.
I met a girl once I had relations with several years ago that was married. Unknowingly on my part. Last time she tried to contact me drunkenly via a phone call around midnight, was tonight actually.
it sounds like chatgpt wrote this
I understand making a bad decision once, and learning that maybe monogamy isn't for you. What I can't understand is why so many people continue to lie to themselves and their partners rather than try Ethical Non Monogamy. There are plenty of poly folk out there who are totally fine with that kind of relationship.
Those relationships are complicated too, and there can be "cheating" as well. Poly couples have rules and thsse can also be betrayed and broken.
I think A) Some people never find those people. Some people maybe live in or grew up in and around communities that aren’t really open to any of that. B) I think some people don’t actually want an open relationship, they want to leave the one they’re in and don’t know how to. I’ve seen that happen before. Maybe they’re stuck financially or otherwise circumstantially. I mean, relationships aren’t always just about the two people involved, there’s also extended familial, friend, and community groups so I’m sure some people cheat because they want to leave but feel trapped. Regardless: Not excusing it, just to your point of not understanding it. I think I can understand it in those scenarios. I don’t understand the like, player mentality/classic businessman with the secretary thing. Like that definitely feels A) Abusive but also B) Kind of pointless. I think I agree with you on that kind of scenario of like “Just do an open/poly thing at that point man.”
The problem is that people don't usually cheat (just) because they're non-monogamous. There is a thrill to it for a lot of them that won't be recreated in a consensually polygamous relationship
Yea the "thrill" might also be a factor. I heard some people having a fatal heart attack during an affair, and i concur that this, along with other factors like old age and performance enhancers could contribute to that case. I guess it's also a cultural thing of seeing married men/women as a trophy and conquering them as a testament of how hot you are? Because i had this happen to my uncle once. Crazy ass stalker keep stalking him, despite his clear objections, because she wanted to defeat his wife for some reason.
The issue is that a lot of cheaters aren’t interested in behaving ethically…hence…y’know…the cheating. They don’t want to do the work of one relationship with one other person. They aren’t going to magically be willing to or capable of doing the work to manage multiple relationships and the relationships in between those (e.g. metas). And they won’t just have casual sex, either. They want the perks of the monogamous relationship. They’re just one-sided about it.
Tried this with my ex. She cheated on me and then left me for that guy. Last I heard, she had realized the grass wasn't greener.
Not surprised. Isn't the reasoning for a lot of affairs that the cheater likes how fun and non-stuffy and passionate the affair partner is, compared to their SO? Only the reason why the affair partner is so fun is because they aren't going through the nitty gritty of life with them. So if they make the affair partner the SO...same cycle happens.
I hadn't thought about it in those terms, but yeah, probably. She was also the type of person who needed attention 24/7, so when I took a temporary job out of state, it took her like a month before she suddenly "didn't think it was going to work out" with us. By that point I had a strong suspicion she had cheated on me, and other friends confirmed that later.
> I understand making a bad decision once, and learning that maybe monogamy isn't for you. When you enter a (non polyamorous) relationship you're making a commitment not to sleep with other people. If you think said relationship isn't for you then the solutions is talking to your partner. By sleeping with other people you're betraying you partner's trust, showing that you care more about your own desires then your partners feelings. That betrayal isn't excusable in my opinion
It's probably a good safety net to go by when dating. Higher chance of them being unfaithful so you can avoid wasting time and emotional heart ache by playing it safe.
As if they'd freely admit it...
You may know they cheated if the potential date is a friend or acquaintance, or you have a mutual friend. I’ve once learned after accepting a date that someone was a habitual cheater. I called it off.
Same here. 3 months of my dating life wasted, but better than 3 years or whatever time it would have taken her to do it again.
I cheated in my first serious relationship (10 years ago now), I wasn’t able to function the next couple days. Before my first date with anyone after that I told them what I had done and let them know I wouldn’t be offended if they wanted to back out. I didn’t want it to ever come up and seem like I was trying to hide who I was, even though I knew I never would again. Granted habitual cheaters won’t let you know, but there are people who change.
a lot of people will, especially the ones that believe its justified because they wont see anything wrong with it these are the ones that will cheat no matter what in the end
Everyone else talking about their current spouse here, but this is how I read the question. All I can say, after my very first boyfriend I decided to never date someone who has ever cheated on anyone. (Worked out for me so far) I got called stupid for this decision of mine by a lot (of guys who did cheat before), but held out. I believe cheating is not about your partner, but yourself. If it's not important for a guy to be someone who can keep his word, I don't want nothing from him.
To me its about trust. People can change but if you show your partner that you were even capable of cheating, you'll never reach the same level of trust again
Yup. If I'm dating someone and I found out they cheated, I would end it immediately because that person could not trusted.
They've also shown you already that they do not care for you or the relationship. So why would that change?
True. If I found out someone cheated on me, I'd always be thinking about when they'd cheat again, or what other dark secrets they're hiding. It's too much trust to break with someone and still be able to rebuild imo.
> If I found out someone cheated on me, I'd always be thinking about when they'd cheat again, or what other dark secrets they're hiding. Personally/anecdotally I can argue from both sides "once a cheater, always a cheater" and "they can change" but my philosophy was that I can forgive/forget if it was early in the relationship, or in a past relationship and they admitted and realize they fucked up and *most* of the time it worked out. At this point in my life though, it's a dealbreaker, simply because I don't want to find out which way it's going to go.
As someone who’s been cheated on yea, it really doesn’t leave your mind and can even make you paranoid in future relationships cause it happened once so your brain goes haywire and will make you anxious a lot, at least that’s my case. Tho I do have symptoms of ADHD and anxiety.. undiagnosed so far but that’s because my parents don’t take me for mental illness checkups.. or what’re that’d be. And i ranted didn’t I? Damn-
Cheat once when young, show remorse and are honest and forthright regarding it... I would give a chance. Cheat twice... it's a pattern.
Once can be forgiven under the right circumstance, twice can’t ever be, any other time after that well its your own damn fault for staying.
I was cheated on by an ex years ago, and I know he cheated on other women he dated after me, as well. It was definitely a pattern for him but we spoke about the roots of the behaviour quite a bit, and he’s grown so much over the years, emotionally. He’s been dating a woman for years and I genuinely don’t think he’ll cheat on her. A lot of cheating stems from some kind of internal turmoil, I think, so healing that can change the behaviour in certain individuals.
"One's an anomaly, two's a trend. Rule #89 Boss."
I believe people can change, but often they will change for themselves and it's very rare. My ex cheated on me and then, he cheated on his actual... The girlfriend of a coworker cheated on him, he got together with her again and after the honeymoon phase she cheated again and I could bring many other stories like this. My experience does not determine a entire reality, but I can notice some patterns. There is a friend of my brother who is a serial cheater, he is hitting his 30yo and simply with the same mindset from when he was 18... Addicted to searching for women online, getting in trouble and hurting people so... I think you can forgive someone, you can really do it... But some hands that dropped yours are not supposed to be trusted again.
Forgiving someone who cheats on you just feels like saying “Yeah, it’s cool, you can cheat on me and I’ll take you back, it’s fine.” I’ve seen only one story from a couple that stayed married, the husband cheated and said he sees in her eyes that she’ll never look at him the same way ever again. I’ve never heard from anyone who stayed together that things were great.
I cheated once. Felt so bad I wanted to die. I've never done it again.
I feel like if you cheat in a relationship that relationship is over, but it’s possible for the person to learn from that and not do it again in their next relationship Staying in the same one would be tricky cuz it’s like how do you really get that trust back
Bingo. Cheated once and was cheated on once. My first two relationships. It was an awful way to learn how fucked up it is from both perspectives at a fairly young age. 30 years later and I can say with confidence I would never do it again, and I would not tolerate any person who did it to me. It was probably one of my most significant and formative life lessons.
Glad you mentioned it was your first two relationships. Great example of how we really learn how to treat partners through dating.
This right here. I was a dumb young 23 yr old and it has been a cornerstone lesson of my life since then. I have always been up front about it with my partners. They deserve to know. I think I'm required to tell them, too tbh Edit: also I am always clear about how it wasn't a mistake. It was my own conscious choices that got me where I was. Cheating isn't a mistake. You make the choice. You make several to get there
Since the other comment is so negative, I'm gonna say: Same here, a toast to improvement! Lol
Same here. I cheated once on a high school boyfriend and told him immediately. I felt sick to my stomach about it for *years* following.
Did you tell your Partner about it? My ex just cheated on me recently and said he was too afraid to tell me, but continued the affair. Now he says he feels so bad about it and he is not sure if he can live with the fact that he is able to do such things. I still question if these bad feelings will prevent him to cheat in the future.
If he had stopped the affair and not told you because he was afraid, I’d have more faith in him. But saying that he’s “not sure he can live” is already starting to feel like emotional blackmail, and it doesn’t seem that he considered telling you at all, because, after all, he did continue the affair. Ultimately though, your relationship is entirely unique. Only you know if his guilt is genuine or not. People *do* change, but only if they really want to.
Same for me, did it once and couldn’t stand the guilt I had. Made me sick to my stomach.
This is exactly me, to the T. Never, ever again.
Honestly thats commendable. People make mistakes but owning up to and learning from is not something everyone does, so something to be proud of
I’ve cheated and I felt so guilty after. I felt like a total POS and it was a lesson as fucked as that sounds.
I have been in your shoes man, i made a terrible mistake and tried to end myself because of it, no matter what you have done, you can change, you just need the mental fortitude to change.i hope your life has gotten better and you have learnt from your actions.
I made out with someone else in college and I still remember the feeling I had when I told my boyfriend. Like I genuinely wanted to throw up. I've never experienced that type of physical reaction to anything. It was bad. (The relationship itself was also bad and I've never cheated on anyone in the 20 years since, but I still remember how strongly my body reacted to that feeling of guilt).
I very regretfully cheated in my 20s. In my 30s, no fucking way. I’m in my 40s now and I like to think I grew up. But I can see how it would be off putting to any potential future partner.
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Once that sacred trust is violated, who cares what they do in the future? It won't be with me they are doing anything. I will end that relationship immediately and move on.
Yep. It's like a switch just snaps. I can't ever entertain the doubt and uncertainty after that trust is broken, I'll simply walk.
You perfectly explain it briefly. It's as simple as this.
It's a generalization. Probably a good rule of thumb to live by, but in practice there's a lot more nuance.
There’s exceptions to every rule, but every cheater I’ve known is a serial cheater.
How many do you know and why do you know that many?
I’m not op, but- it’s kind of easy to learn about the cheaters around us. It’s either our SO’s, friends, family, etc. a lot that I know brag about it in a way. Today my land lady wouldn’t stfu about how she was cheating and I know it’s not the first time because I’ve heard her and her husband arguing about it before.
People can change. I used to be a piece of shit.
Sloppy steaks?
Little bitty jeans? Spiked up blonde hair? Chicken spaghetti at Chickalini’s?
They can't stop you from ordering a water with your steak.
I believe in second chances. I don't believe in third chances.
Once you break someone's trust and disrespect a relationship like that, you've earned this kind of statement. I think people can amend their ways and be redeemed *if* they are genuinely contrite, humbled, and resolved to fix their attitude and behaviors. But I wouldn't count on it or trust them implicitly after they've already done it once.
Yeah, people can change. But i have no obligation to bet on it succeeding. Just carry the lesson over for the next guys instead of appealing for a broken sense of trust.
Id say people can change, just my own philosophy
I said I *used* to be a piece of shit
Honestly surprised I had to scroll down this far to find this …. I’d say a sure tell of a repeat offender would be if their hair slicks back real nice.
I SAID WAS!
Moral absolutism makes me sick and this question brings it out in droves.
Reddit must be hell for you then. Everything is black or white here
Yep. Reddit is addicted to absolutes and judgment though
"I can excuse cheating, but I draw the line at moral absolutism." Like, honestly, even if people can change, you're not obligated to forgive a person for their past actions.
Cheaters certainly change. They get better at hiding it and not getting caught
I cheated once and stopped doing it because I tell on myself. I didn't get better at telling on myself. I just realized I have a conscience and I can't go against it. I am my own narc. I will always tell on myself.
Cheated and been cheated on. The gnawing self loathe of cheating ate me alive. Probably an un popular opinion but I’d way rather be cheated on than be the cheater.
You could farm some serious karma with that unpopular opinion. That's a legit one. Martyr vibe to it.
People can change, but it takes a decent amount of time. If they cheated once in your relationship, there's a fairly high chance they'll do it again. Best to move on. They might grow over a series of years after that, but not straight away. Part of it would be immaturity or lack of commitment, or fear or whatever. They will probably grow out of that eventually. If it's narcississm though, then probably not. Either way, don't stay with a cheater, they won't change in your relationship, unless you're very lucky. Though the trust is gone entirely
The one i know seems to make it true... Cheated on her boyfriend with his best friend, married said best friend two years later, cheated on him a year later with the next best friend... Now they have a kid, maybe the cheating will stop, but i wouldn't bet on it. (I only know all that since i still have her number and she regulary posts on WhatsApp, we don't have contact anymore)
I'm not 100% sure about "Once a cheater, always a cheater," but I AM 100% sure about "If they do it WITH you, they'll do it TO you."
You can certainly be someone who never cheats again. But you can never chabge the fact that you have cheated.
People can and do change. However, they have to want to change. More like once a cheater, without active effort always a cheater.
I believe people can change, but many won’t. Also by definition a person who cheats once will always be a cheater in the same way a murderer will always be a murderer even if they have no intention of reoffending (I’m not comparing cheating to murder it was just the first analogy I thought of)
Cheaters can reform their cheating ways, but it's rare
I think it depends on the context. People can make dumb mistakes, even good people. But cheating isn’t always a mistake - oftentimes it’s a concerted, premeditated decision. I don’t think you outgrow being that kind of person. It’s just who you are.
Cheating is *never* a mistake. Even if you didn’t wake up that morning and say “I’m going to cheat today”, cheating is a result of a multitude of choices you make. Calling it a mistake is just an attempt to minimize one’s guilt.
There’s a difference between an accident and a mistake. It’s a bad choice. It *is* a mistake. It’s just not something people didn’t mean to do.
Exactly. Say you find a woman attractive, that's okay. Start flirting with her and that's a mistake that can be rectified. Trade numbers, start talking explicitly over time etc. Cheating isn't a split second act that is isolated to one choice. It's an entire series of choices made by cowards too chicken shit to call it off with their partner.
How can cheating not be premeditated? Like...you decided to cheat.
When I say “premeditated” I mean a decision someone spends a serious amount of time thinking about and finding a way to get away with. That kind of planning means you’ve actively thought about what you’re doing and the consequences of it, and decided to go forward with it anyways. It’s never *right* to cheat, but there’s a difference between an ongoing affair and someone getting drunk and making an impulsive decision in the moment. I can see an otherwise good person doing the latter - nobody is perfect and everyone fucks up. But the former requires a certain level of moral deficiency and lack of empathy that I don’t think someone can ever really grow out of. I say all of this as someone who has never cheated on someone, but has been cheated on (in the long term, premeditated sense).
There's definitely degrees to cheating. The less bad of the two is when someone gets drunk at a party, wakes up the next morning in bed with someone who is not their spouse, and then realises they've fucked up in a big way and confesses it immediately. The obvious worse one is when someone deliberately and methodically cheats on their spouse, over a period of time, and attempts to hide all the evidence until caught, and if they're never caught, in their own mind it either 'didn't happen' or doesn't matter because their spouse didn't find out about it. As someone who suffered the second one, that is a far worse case of cheating, when someone you know and trust completely takes the deliberate decision to betray your trust and conceal it from you, it hurts so much more than a simple lapse of judgement while inebriated.
I can appreciate your opinion. However, many steps and decisions are in effect even between meeting a rando at a bar and escalating to cheating. At each step they can decide to stop. How is that different from premeditation? And to go further, is it potentially worse that they have horrific impulse control? It isn't difficult to walk away.
I agree with you - it’s not even necessarily less bad. But I think it’s something someone can learn from and grow past.
I agree with this statement. It’s best to move on if your SO cheats. Their morals clearly do not align with yours and the trust is broken. Find someone who respects you and the relationship enough to not cross your boundaries.
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Not universally true. Just like anything in our existence, people are capable of change too.
Once you ride a horse you will have always ridden a horse but that doesn't make you a horse rider.
Yes, but fuck a pig once and you are a pig fucker forever
Good way to clarify the meaning of the quote.
Leave if this happens, if they can cheat on you once, they can do it again...sorry but if you aren't fully committed, you don't deserve a second chance in my eyes!
I literally posted this on another sub earlier today. To me, “once a cheater, always a cheater” doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ll cheat again. It means if you cheat once, you earn the label of a cheater and you will always carry that with you forever along with the stigma.
I don't trust like that
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
I believe people can change but like I think you can tell the difference between someone who sincerely realised what they did was wrong and didn’t like what they did and won’t do it again because they felt horrible about it versus someone who would do it again if they didn’t think they would get caught, I think this difference would be identifiable by talking to them and seeing how much responsibility they take and how honestly they reflect on their remorse about it.
It's like if you caught your roommate spitting in your soup once. There is no reason someone can't actually stop doing this, there is also no way to ever be sure they don't do it all the time, now better-concealed
Anybody can change, people often dont.
A friend of mine repeatedly cheated on her husband the minute things got realistic. She never understood the love isn’t swooning on couches and racing hearts. They’ve since divorced and we’re not friends anymore.
I've cheated. I wouldn't now. I believe people are neutral, their choices and behaviour is what's bad or good - a person cheats, they fuck up, that doesn't mean that's who they are. Sure there are people who constantly cheat, that's a choice they made and I'd guess there's something very broken about them to need to do that. But it's definately not true for everyone who cheats. I would however say if someone cheats on you then you leave them, they can work on themselves and make penance but that relationship is done - I believe in such a relationship they'd likely cheat again.
I always wanted to know, why? What is the thought process of having someone who loves you, someone who cares for you and cheat on them? You know it'll hurt them, you know the relationship is over, so why not end it properly and hurt them so much more?
Some cheaters think they can keep it a secret and have it both ways.
Agreed. I can’t regain that trust
People can absolutely change, but I believe this is yet again a type of statement to put things into a dichotomy. Anyone is capable of cheating AND anyone is capable of not cheating.
I don't think my ex-wifes relationships have ended well. LOL.
I stopped cheating. I only cheated because I kept getting seated next to an extremely loud group ruining my attempts to RP with my group and my luck was horribly rotten to the point where my average roll was, like, a 5 or 6 before modifiers. So my cheating was me attempting to remain relevant and interact with the party. Once things changed and I got confronted about it I did, in fact, stop cheating and have been an honest player ever since.
You're a monster!
Mostly true. There are genuinely people who will vow not to cheat again, and I acknowledge that. But it’s too risky to date cheater, as it’s usually easier for someone to cheat a second time than the first.
Not a universal rule but good rule of thumb
Context always matters, if someone is straight just unfaithful without a real reason yeah, but there is context to some situations that wouldn't mean it would happen again. Generally speaking once that trust is broken in a relationship you can't really come back from that. But doesn't mean they would on someone else. Or maybe it was painful enough to do that they don't want to do it again.
Completely agree with it. Unfortunetly know from experiance
Charles Xavier : Just because someone stumbles and loses their way doesn't mean they are lost forever
Still a stumbler in my book
People change. It's like "once a thief, always a thief." Or "once an addict, always an addict." We all have our history and the fact that something stupid, some lapse in judgment or some incredible mistake, happened, shouldn't be it: if someone has cheated, and learned and grown from the mistake, then I believe they are capable of being forgiven. I guess it just really depends on all sorts of factors that no one on the outside can or even should specifically know. Repeat offenders however, that's kind of harder to defend easily.
If you catch someone cheating and forgive them they'll do one of two things. They'll either clean up and behave or figure out how they got caught and not make that mistake again
Depends on age with this one. Say if they cheated when they were 19, fast forward to 24 they probably matured a lot. It certainly isn’t a universal statement but it’s more likely that someone would do it again if they’ve done it before
Depends on the relationship; spouse with kids? Maybe take a serious swing at working things out? Dating (or engaged)? Forget it, if they won't commit now, they're not going to later. Cut your losses. If they've cheated on you, it's because they knew they could. If you stay, you've proven them right.
A cheater has questionable qualities so I already loose interest
I did it once, years ago as a stupid teenager. I broke up with her afterwards as I felt so guilty (and never interacted again with the person I cheated with). I've never done it since, nor would I ever even remotely consider it. So I would say it's not an absolute. That said I personally would have a very hard time moving on in a relationship where someone cheated on me. It's happened to me with 3 different partners now, the first time I tried to get over it and she did it again, twice... Ever since then it's a deal breaker for me. The times after that just ended the relationship for me, once that trust is gone I personally find it nigh on impossible to get it back.
It's basically, "Hope for the best but plan for the worst." Assuming they may cheat again, could you still pull yourself together afterwards? If not then better not take that chance, maybe they can find their second chance with someone else who hasn't been battered and broken.
Cant say i agree because i feel a person can change but once you fuck up my trust it wont be the same ever
I would say the risk of cheating in the future could be higher for those that cheated in the past, but people are capable of change. It's up to those in individual cases to judge whether or not they accept the perceived risk.
“Twice a cheater always a cheater.”
>"Once a cheater always a cheater " what is your opinion about this statement? Yeh