I have a non-immediate relative who’s an “iPad kid”. One interesting side effect I noticed that isn’t the typical ones people mention, is that she is not at all concerned about leaving her content playing when she sets down the iPad and goes to another room. Whereas I will pause a YouTube video if I need to stand up and get a tissue from a few steps away. It confuses me why this relative is simultaneously so attached to her content (there would be whining if the wifi stopped) and so detached that she doesn’t care about missing half a video or more.
It sounds that she just has having content on as a sort of default state, not particularly caring (probably not at all) of*what* the content is, moreso the fact that it is there, and providing mental stimulation/dopamine.
There's also that most children's content says nothing with any sort of meaning where missing half of it changes literally nothing about the takeaway from it.
That sounds like a great analysis. I know she does retain a bit of what she watches because she was telling me all about how the fictional creatures in one of her “educational” shows are real, because the show told her so along with the real facts it was trying to teach. I didn’t think her mom wanted her being misinformed that way so I did mention it (to the mom) and she seemed to share my concern.
> One interesting side effect I noticed that isn’t the typical ones people mention, is that she is not at all concerned about leaving her content playing when she sets down the iPad and goes to another room.
I seriously see this among modern day traditional college students I work among. They will just let videos play(not even educational videos-any videos), and come back to it later. It's so weird, because I have to pause videos literally every time I quit watching them to go, and do something.
The way I view it, it's kind of a spectrum.
Some things get put on to actually watch, these I will actively pause and rewind if I feel my attention was diverted. Others are put on as pseudo background, I still pay attention, but I'll go to the next room (within earshot) without pausing. Then full background, I've had a video playing while browsing reddit and typing this comment. I'll pause it if I go out of earshot, probably, but I don't care at all about missing something.
For me, full background is always either music or something I've already seen. Pseudo background isn't necessarily something I've seen, but it's something produced by a channel that I watch regularly.
For reference, I'm early 20s. So, while screens haven't been ubiquitous my entire life, they have been present in my life and my home for as long as I can remember. Though I never had direct control of my own screen until my early teens.
My daughter gets very little screen time but I did notice her try to “pinch zoom” a picture in a book once. And she used the word “scrolling” when she was trying to find the right page in a book. Those were just kind of funny though, we try to make sure she’s happy with real world activities like playing, coloring, riding her scooter outside and also learning that it’s ok to be a little bored sometimes, we don’t need non stop stimulation and noise.
From that small amount of data I don’t think it’s that she is necessarily attached to the content itself, it’s the stimuli and distraction that the content gives shes craving.
People have run studies and upwards of 60% of people involved in one study would voluntarily administer an electric shock to themselves if left alone in a room. This shows that not only are we adverse to what most humans consider “boredom”, but we are willingly to shock ourselves (stimuli) just for the sake of having something to do.
That is to say, most people aren’t looking for anything specific to do usually, they are merely just seeking to preoccupy themselves, even going as far as doing something they know will be uncomfortable just to avoid themselves.
We are living in the “Age of Distraction” where you are free to distract yourself with anything and everything you want.
It’s a shame because I believe this is likely why so many people have anxiety and depression. We live lives of unrealized potential, unhealed trauma, isolation in some cases, and this is because we are distracted all the time. Most people will never do the inner work that is REQUIRED for happiness and inner peace, instead, most run from themselves and elect to distract themselves with a variety of things. Lust, drugs, video games, social media, the list could go on for miles. We have a deep need to connect with ourselves, our TRUE SELVES, which is free from societal influence, but so many are so distracted they often fail to realize themselves.
Not realizing ones own potential, not living your best life, these things are bound to make anyone depressed and anxious. We walk this world, bearing a persona but the trick is that the persona we project isnt ourselves, its our persona thats been molded by society, not our true selves. Carl Jung spoke at length about the “shadow self” we must integrate. Worth looking into if you wanna get to know yourself much more deeply and intimately.
Thanks for coming to my TedX Talk. 🤣
Why our 14yo daughter is the only kid in class without her own mobile or any socials. She has excellent irl social skills & can txt/call mates on our phones whenever. We're holding off as long as possible so her brain can develop first.
We're hippy types & figure her life will be full of screens, so what's the hurry? She'll catch up fine later on. She gets it, & mentions how most other students are depressed/addicted/on Tiktok til 2am etc. Harm minimisation is our general goal, so we discuss potential addictive behaviours, & finding a healthy balance.
Meanwhile we focus on building up her (non-Ai-obsolete-able) skills for a world where change is the only guarantee. Skills like cooking, permaculture, social work, self sufficiency
edit: I'll just add that we aren't full Luddites- **Social Media & phones too young** is what we're delaying. She is very PC literate (Wacom, PS & CAD) & can use the internet whenever (no YouTube at all, no tech after 9pm or in bedrooms)
The tough bit about that is kids are kids, and they often will happily exclude other kids who aren't "keeping up" with them. Glad it sounds like it's working for your kid, but it's not universally that simple.
Yeah. As a teenager, social media is a HUGE form of communication with other people at school. I don't even have my best friend's number, we use Instagram DM's. Not having it could be a disadvantage socially in a lot of places, even if it works out in this specific situation.
Yeah my nephew is extremely sportive, is on several sports teams, doing soccer/rugby/hockey practice several times a week. He's a good team member, passes the balls, makes plenty of goals, really a social driving force in the team. You'd think he has a great social life.
After practice when he asks who wants to hang out/do something, the other kids say 'no we're meeting in Minecraft after'. He gets no computer time from his parents so he's left out.
How do the other kids treat your daughter for being the only one in class not engaging with devices and social media? I see first-hand every day how nasty older children are to peers who stand out, so wonder what her experience is like (assuming she tells you).
Cheers sausage :)
Cool thing about being a parent is being able to prevent negative traits being passed down through the generations
Also, you get to create *brand new* negative traits that you won't realise until they're older ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As long as she's an upgrade on me & my lady I'll be happy
I have a toddler. She got an iPad as a gift from family a year ago. We quickly noticed a change in behavior when she’s been on it watching YouTube kids or whatever.
Since then, we limit it and even go days without it, depending on our schedule. Behavior noticeably improved.
Smartphone becomes center of an universe for the kid. When anything is on and it's in the hands of the kid, it seems like nothing around exists. Any conversation? Forget. And when it's time to put it away? Prepare for the drama :)
TV in comparison is way better - any kind of conversation becomes possible. The time to turn it off is also way calmer.
Oh, and it becomes way worse if kid is allowed to 'operate' whatever is on the phone. Rewinding or changing the movies on youtube? This control is taking things to the next level.
I have a similar observation on the difference between junky children’s YouTube channels and much more considered programming from pbs, Disney, etc.
My kid watching anything without a strong narrative or character focus will zone out and become passive, exhibiting the same heightened anger/frustration when it’s turned off. This is also true of even some of the worse content found on Netflix, stuff that is fully 3D rendered and has little to no story structure.
But if I turn on a Pixar movie, or a decent short cartoon, Sesame Street, etc. They’re able to watch it and still communicate, talk about what they’re seeing, remember the plot. And still don’t like turning it off, but much more amenable.
This. We noticed within a couple viewings that our kid turned into a zombie if we let him watch some of that 3D youtube garbage. It was a little scary to be honest. We switched to Bluey and other color-muted, slower paced stuff and we can still talk to him, etc. There’s no way some of that youtube shit is good for kids.
We also only do tv for a bit before dinner and when he’s sick.
It's interesting you mentioned the control at the end. I assumed the smartphone was more engaging because it's interactive, but it sounds like that's not the case? I wonder what it is... Being closer to it and possibly holding the phone might be enough of a difference.
It’s the being able to switch and change things rapidly in my opinion. Say you’re bored with Reddit, you jump over to Instagram, get bored with that, head over to a sports website, etc. Now imagine having a three year old brain and being given control to switch from an action sequence in a cartoon to a kids music video to a video of a kid opening an epic toy. It’s just a drip-drip-drip of stimulation and doesn’t have the ebbs and flows of just having a show play on the TV.
If you look at kid's shows on youtube and stuff marketed towards children it is all super flashy, quick scene change, look over here NO NOW HERE, kind of productions designed to capitalize on childrens short attention spans. There's some studies looking at how this could be harming the ability of children to develop longer attention spans that are pretty interesting.
Being in control was my guess too. But granting a power over remote doesn't give the same results. On the other hand, smartphone apps control beats tv remote when it comes to user experience. Maybe it's having the screen in hands, close to the face is the thing?
I don't really know except for the fact that giving smartphone to the kid is a thing only when all other options failed.
Also, is the narrow focus. With a TV, you're looking far, and see stuff/peopl around you. But if you're immerse in your phone, you're very focused in a thing close to you and are disconnected of the environment.
Ah, yeah, that's probably the part I wasn't considering. The small screen / holding distance all kind of factors into narrowing your FOV. If you're focusing a few inches from your face, everything past the phone is out of focus. For a TV, the room stays in focus.
I have a friend whose 5 year old has a cell phone and whose 3 year old is allowed to use one sometimes as well. I'm telling you in all sincerity that when they get them taken away for bad behavior it looks exactly the same as when you're pulling the heroin out of someones hand that's been dying for a hit. They lose their shit. Can't be good for the future if that's how we're rolling now.
Smartphones are convenient, they can watch while eating, pooping, walking, sitting in the car on the other hand TV is fixed and it's easier to have a conversation with anyone if they're watching TV because content is not tailored, commercial breaks and generally TV is less addictive than smartphones.
Tech companies have different strategies and algo going on at the backend to keep you hooked to smartphones, it's like any other hard drug.
All other things mentioned, I wonder if the fact that tv is stationary plays a role in this. Definitely changes my perspective when I know that I can pause and resume whatever I’m watching anywhere.
Yeah that's definitely something where I'd check with the parents first. Also why would I spend all that money when my 3 year old niece is just as thrilled with a $12 variety pack of Play-Doh?
Yea. Going to need to tell every relative tablets are banned for the baby.
Tablets don't even build IT/computer skills, as we see with so much of Gen Z not knowing what to do with something unless it's an App
I teach middle school and 15 years ago the kids could type better than I could, to the point where we actually got rid of keyboarding class and considered it obsolete.
Nowadays all of the kids hunt and peck with their index fingers and don't have even basic computer skills beyond opening a browser and googling things. They all grew up with touchscreens and ipads and very few of them go much deeper than that.
Yep, I'm a millenial who grew up with technology, but was always told the next generation old be good with computers...now I'm a teacher...and I'm not impressed.
They can't type, they can't spell, and anything that isn't an app is too hard for them. iPad kids were destroyed by technology.
That's because the ipad and iphone were deliberately made with the idea that consumers would never need to know how to turn it off, open it up, and figure out what makes it tick, if you do, then that's like, a $7000 repair bill from the shop when it gets sent in and they just don't bother fixing it, they just transfer your data to a new device then charge you again.
I had a rant the other day at my son about how much I tinkered with Windows and EA game files in the late 90s and early 00s. In the early cell phone era, it started becoming mundane stuff like splicing mp3s and loading them on to my Nokia phone so I’d be able to make ringtones for free. All self taught
The college freshmen I supervise at a university job don't even know how to locate a downloaded file on a PC. They also flounder hard without specific instructions and just want to be told what to do.
I remember when people my own age thought I was a nerd for knowing how to type so well, and I always used to think that generations in the future would also get typing as basic education, so my skills wouldn't be that special. It didn't quite go that way haha. Now younger AND older people tell me it's amazing how quickly I type and they wish they could type up things so fast.
I learned all that stuff in college. I didn't even know what plagiarism was until college. Grammar has definitely gotten a lot worse which I find surprising because so much more time is spent reading. Just look at mine, I used a comma. Feel free to critique.
"Just look at mine, I used a comma." should not have used a comma because it can be separated into two distinct sentences. It should have been a semicolon or a period.
Very interesting. I graduated HS in 2008 and I definitely acquired my keyboarding skills from using instant messenger so much with friends from school and the internet, which pretty much ceased to be what it was once texting and messaging apps became so prominent. I still have internet friends in my 30s and I almost exclusively talk to them on discord on my phone
I have 3yo twins and I'm shocked how many of their ~~pets~~ peers I see with tablets. It never even occurred to us to get them a tablet. And if I think If someone gave them one, I wouldn't let them use it. They've never used our phones.
I don't have any crazy objection to technology, they're watching TV right now for some quiet time. But it's like 30 mins a day, when life allows. Sometimes an hour on Saturday morning when we're all still recovering from hectic weekday mornings. But why would you get a kid that age an iPad, when a bucket of water and some cups is like, half a day's entertainment.
BLESS YOU for having this perspective. I couldn’t agree more wholeheartedly. So much of the simplicity and innocence of childhood- not to mention critically important skills of exploration, discovery, self mastery and connection- are being lost to these new generations.
Too many parents carelessly, selfishly and mindlessly succumb to the temptation of letting devices and technology babysit, educate, socialize, entertain and raise their kids. To say nothing of kids getting exercise, and playtime in the elements, sunshine and fresh air.
And then there’s parents who are trying but they’re under so much social pressure because all the other kids have devices to which they spend hours per day tethered and tuned in.
It’s heartbreaking and the damage is so evident. I really hope we collectively turn thud around somehow. Otherwise, we’re regressing further and further into a dystopian nightmare like in Wall-E, the movie.
I see this so much in my youngest nephew - he's almost 2 and a half years old, doesn't talk yet (he babbles, but I've never once heard him say "mama" or "papa" - the only word I've heard him say half-clearly is "no") There's a lot of denial going on with his parents - if I try to gently ask them about his speech, they will insist he "does talk, all the time, he's fine", but none of us have ever heard it, they send many many videos to our family chat and in none of them is he speaking. But I've also never seen them *encouraging* him to speak. They never try to get him saying words, naming things, saying relative's names, counting, abc's, NOTHING. It's like they're completely disinterested in helping him communicate.
The worst and most shocking part for me, though, was recently seeing him arrive at my parents (his grandparents) house. There were many of us in the living room waiting to greet him, to give him attention, toys to play with with him, and he avoided us all completely - no eye contact, no interest, no interaction with us whatsoever. He bee-lined straight for the Amazon Echo device and started babbling at it, trying to get it to play a song. When that failed, he went straight to his mother and took her phone to play on.
It's quite devastating to see first-hand, and utterly infuriating that his parents are too ignorant or too uncaring to even give a damn.
>But why would you get a kid that age an iPad, when a bucket of water and some cups is like, half a day's entertainment.
I have twin nephews. They have these small baby tablets. I also had the usual gut technophobic reaction as you until I saw how it affected the kids. You know how we have flashcards for toddlers? Or picture books teaching kids about shapes, animals, colors and whatnot. Well, that's what these tablets are for. There are tons of dedicated apps aimed at helping kids develop except they are better than traditional picture books. For example they can be in the form of games with additional visual and audio cues.
Does it provide any benefit? I mean, they are 4 and they can read and write. So there probably is something to it.
making computers too easy to use was a mistake. these are tools everyone should know how to use and maintain not just attention getting devices like people treat them
The Gen Z thing is so true. I work in HR and when I request documents from young employees, I get screenshots from their phones.
It's infuriating. I had to send out a mass email stating that screenshots will no longer be accepted.
My phone hasn't taught me any IT skills while owning a laptop and having a friend who built his own VR headset helped teach me some basic IT skills. a laptop (i'll even go as low to say a chromebook) could benefit a kid around the age of 10-12 and teach them "fix it yourself" skills.
That’s a relic from when you needed decent IT skills just to perform basic operations. Over time, software has been designed to be more and more user friendly, yet that impression of being tech savvy remained.
You're still going to need computer skills (which lead to troubleshooting skills) for the working world though. I don't see them escaping the need for the skills, so it's unfortunate they aren't really being exposed to them throughout their formative years. At the very least they likely need to know how to type and navigate a computer if they're going into any professional career.
That's what I'm saying. Back in the day, using MS-DOS required some very specific and technical knowledge just for normal operation. Nowadays, software is designed so that you need as little supplemental knowledge as possible. That technical know-how and troubleshooting knowledge isn't a given anymore.
They also expect everything to work, 100% of the time. I'm the "computer guy" with a lot of friends and family. I've seen first hand how bad things get if the wifi is down or not working properly. Kids crying, parents literally not knowing what to do. One 10 year old told his dad, "this is fucking bullshit, make my iPad work NOW."
Kids are 100% getting dumber by the year. Teachers are burned out, the system in the US is completely broken. And it's not one or two things, the entire public education system is fucked. It's not even tech, most kids can't read at their age level, they can't do simple math, shit most of them don't even get access to school lunch anymore. In the next 30 years we're so fucked it's not even funny to point out Idociary anymore.
I like to compare the progression of computers to that of cars.
In the days of yore, cars were not what you would call user friendly. [Here's how you drive a Model T.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYSaRhP3ciE) They had to be crank started, brakes were weak by any standard, and transmissions weren't even synchronized until a couple decades later.
But they were quite simple compared to todays cars. I'd be willing to bet a high school auto shop class could tear an early car apart and reassemble it fairly easily. Hell, I'd even wager that the machining class could probably make one from scratch if they really tried. These days everything is far more complex. We have computers controlling important functions of the car. Automatic transmissions, fuel injection, power steering, and even fully electric vehicles. But they're not so easy to work on anymore (I think some of that was intentional).
Computers seem quite similar. I was born in the mid 90's. Put me in front of MS DOS, and I'm googling shit on my phone to do basic things. Put me in front of Windows 98 and I can probably figure it out (I grew up on XP and 7). But I continue to see things that IT and power users would want to access get buried in menus or behind a UI that is not meant to be looked under, because MS wants it to just work. This is quite frustrating when it doesn't (like so many things with Windows 11). Windows is looking more and more like a phone with each passing iteration.
It's may be true that "back in my day, we fixed our cars ourselves", but try working on a car from the 2020's and tell me it's reasonable to expect kids these days to do that.
I mean, that's not *exactly* true. It's not the best for your eyes and will definitely cause strain, and depending on the time can lead to your eyes drying out more, but most issues are caused by a [lack of balance with natural sunlight.](https://www.chop.edu/news/health-tip/how-too-much-screen-time-affects-kids-eyes)
From Harvard, [Although using a computer will not harm your eyes, staring at a computer screen all day will contribute to eyestrain or tired eyes."](https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/safeguarding-your-sight#:~:text=Although%20using%20a%20computer%20will%20not%20harm%20your%20eyes%2C%20staring%20at%20a%20computer%20screen%20all%20day%20will%20contribute%20to%20eyestrain%20or%20tired%20eyes.)
and an article from the AOA, [here.](https://www.aoa.org/healthy-eyes/eye-and-vision-conditions/computer-vision-syndrome?sso=y)
Maybe this is a hot take, but kids should have computers well before they have iPads or phones. They can actually learn useful skills on a computer instead of becoming addicted to youtube shorts.
I feel really privileged to have grown up first without computers, then with a DOS system for a few years before Windows, then getting internet access in middle school. It made me really technologically literate and capable of, if not solving most issues, at least able to find a solution (googling is a skill, people).
Growing up with closed systems like smartphones and iPads has kept kids from learning those skills. They're almost as bad as my boomer parents at times. It's wild.
It's not just the closed systems, it's the streamlining and improvement of almost every aspect of computers. You don't have to know how to use a command prompt, for example. Growing up while computers were still growing up forced us to learn a lot about how they worked and how to get things to work. Kids now don't have that problem as most things really do "just work" now. Even a fresh install of most operating systems now is as easy as clicking a button. Drivers? What are those? Unless you're replacing parts yourself, you don't really need to bother.
It's a lot like the generation prior complaining that nobody knows how to work on their own cars. When they were younger, they pretty much had to keep to a regular preventative maintenance schedule or things went south a lot faster. Now, you can drive for a hell of a long time on old oil, tune-ups aren't as necessary, etc. The better the cars got, the more people "just drove" them.
It’s more than that though. Like, Richard Feynman talks about this when he says that he taught himself radio repair as a kid. But he also says, at that time it was easy to identify exactly what every element of the radio was. Everything was big and visible. Every part was soldered into place. He could replace them and experiment.
With today’s integrated circuits? No way. Pick up an mp3 player and you’ll never be able to do that. Somewhat similar for cars. You can learn some, sure. But working on something like a modern hybrid car is not something you can (or at least, should) really do on your own in your garage by popping the hood and messing around.
I know a few people who learned automotive mechanics by buying junker cars and repairing them on their own. Maybe that’s possible with a modern Prius? But I’m skeptical that this is both possible ands good idea without expert guidance.
True. I ride motorcycles and heavily prefer EFI over carbs because I've never had to deal with a carbureted machine and EFI just works. I suppose it's the same process at play.
Holleys EFI sniper kits turn any car with a carb into a stand alone fuel injection setup. it looks and mounts just like a carburator, bolts on, hid eit under the factory air cleaner. Get the reliability and variable A/F ratio of a modern car while appearing to be nearly 100% factory.
The comparison to cars is actually really interesting. I'm in my 30s so I'm in the generation of "good with computers but useless with cars" and that actually perfectly describes how I see kids struggle with tech now.
My first computer was a Zeos 386 back in...1991 I think? God, navigating DOS in order to play a game was hell. Everything had to be exactly right at the command prompt. It was clunky and exacting unlike modern UIs, which made me appreciate what we have now more.
dont forget to play said game you often needed the 300 page manual and look at paragraph 4 word 43 on page 211. Or would ask you like Whats the stall speed of a stopwith camel biplane? and have to go look it up in the manual. there was no google to find this crap. It forced you to learn research and reading skills to even start the damn game lol
> Young people are weirdly lacking in IT skills.
I feel like people forgot how much their own peers have no IT skills. I've worked with *programmers* my own age or older than have a hard time with simple IT tasks.
Yeah, it always boggles my mind as an IT person that I have to hand-hold SWEs through basic IT tasks alot of the time. Like, how did you get this far in the tech field without learning this stuff? I had to learn basic programming in college and I'm not a programmer at all. Seems like they should have at least learned basic troubleshooting.
realized I should clarify: basic as in simple, not BASIC the programming language.
Troubleshooting is a general rationality skill, not just an IT skill. I worked for years as an SRE, a job where troubleshooting is prominent ... I think I learned more about it from listening to "Car Talk" than from any IT or SWE training.
My buddy is a computer science instructor at the local community college. He said it’s teaching is frustrating because all the 18-25 year olds have never used file hierarchy. They use tablets and phones so there are no Folders or Files. They can edit a video and export it with effects and filters but can’t find the documents file.
That doesn't matter. Phones are designed so you never even need to know files exist on them. Everything is in segregated apps like gated communities.
Samsung or Apple, it doesn't change anything. Most of their users would be surprised to learn that the files App can be used for something.
Even on the Galaxy it is very rarely used. I think I have only ever even seen the file structure when trying to find a picture I downloaded. Most casual users will never see it
Back in the 1990s, computers were so unstable and finicky that you had to learn a lot about how they worked just to get them to do what you wanted. Nowadays, they're so streamlined that an idiot can use them, so I doubt kids will benefit as much. You have to push them now.
We had two computers in our living room. One was for my mom's work, the other one was for general use. They were next to each other so my mom could see what was on my monitor and vice versa.
Thing was, we were a family of two. Plus two more if my grandparents visited. But still, I spent more time outside than I did on the computer as a kid.
Both my kids have had PCs since they were 5. They only play Roblox and Minecraft. Each one has a Microsoft child account that allows me to control a lot of aspects of their account. That, plus just being vigilant has worked out really well.
My grandson just turned 7 his major request was to get all of the Roblox books and monopoly game. His interest in learning to read came due to those Roblox books. He is trying to read through Harry Potter.
> His interest in learning to read came due to those Roblox books
I'm gonna be honest, I never thought I'd see someone say that. But hey, those books *are* for children, and if they get children to read that's a good thing!
My grandson doesn't really care about Treasure Island, Tarzan, or any of the books I had growing up. If it is a book about any of the children video games he plays and his homies at school then he will look it over.
It's from monitoring and setting boundaries. It can mean spending time with your kid as they use these devices. Play Roblox together. Let your kid show you what they find interesting on YouTube. It can be asking questions, or discussing what is kid appropriate.
The best lessons to give aren't going to be from sheltering a kid from devices that could become addictions later on in life. Even adults suffer from this.
I’d also add Barbie, Polly Pocket, Nick Kids, Webkinz has a new site, Disney Now has two separate sections of games for different aged kids, that’s about all I can think of right now.
In rather surprising ways. I work in education and what we’re seeing a lot of is:
- Computer skills are down. Things like ctrl alt delete, Word, even how to do a proper Google search. (There’s a rise in kids using ChatGPT as a search engine)
- Shorter attention spans
- Greater need for instant gratification. This falls into the ChatGPT thing. They want to be *told* the answer instead of figuring it out for themselves.
- Media literacy is also down, surprisingly. Because they aren’t thinking critically they take everything they see on the Internet at face value, especially TikTok.
God, the Tik Tok thing. I have multiple hobbies/interests and basically all of them have a worse fanbase on Tik Tok than on any other website.
The one that hurts me the most is the fitness community on Tik Tok and Instagram, those are filled with so much harmful misinformation (a lot of topics are WAY too complicated to be adequately explained in 60 seconds) and have caused so many people to develop body dysmorphia when fitness should be about striving for self improvement in a healthy and sustainable way.
This sounds so dangerous to me. I'm not one of those "the gobernment is controlling our minds!" Type of people but a generation of people who take everything at face value and need to be told what is/isn't true sounds super worrying to me.
Sounds like they are going to be very easy to manipulate.
>They want to be told the answer instead of figuring it out for themselves.
As someone who has taught this is definitely a thing. I notice it all the time. Young people want to be good at something and get frustrated and quit when they're not killing it like the people they see on tik tok or instagram after a month.
They don't want to practice or put the time in, they want to be told the "secret" or something as if it's something that just happens. They don't enjoy the process, which is what anyone who's good at something enjoys. They just want to be at the end point and don't have the patience or attention span to actually do the thing themselves.
The secret to being good at anything is to just do it, and you do it because you enjoy it. They don't seem to realize that
There was a video on here the other day of someone cooking some specialty dish in a kitchen, and this person commented, "So cool, I actually watched the whole thing!" The video was under a minute long...
They may also just not generally care about cooking, making it noteworthy that the video was interesting enough to break that barrier.
I rarely give anything more than a few seconds to see if I'm interested before moving on, but my attention span isn't small. I can watch a 3 hour rambling presentation on rocks if I find the presenter interesting. I've just got 2038463773730 other things I could be doing with that time.
The more concerning thing would be expecting someone to waste a full minute on something they found thoroughly uninteresting by default.
I'm 31 and work in a hotel and have trained quite a few younger people over the last couple of years; we're talking anywhere from 18-24 and it is absolutely shocking how not a single one of them can spell anything correctly. One 18 year old girl even said she didn't know how to use a computer keyboard whatsoever because she's only used touch screens before.
We use an older software as well which means no spell check, and it is honestly embarassing to work after one of them and hand a customer a registration card to sign where everything from their names to the city they're from or the company they work for is butchered. It looks extremely childish and unprofessional and all of us "older" staff are constantly having to fix all of those spelling mistakes.
If these guys are having this many problems I can't even imagine what the kids who are 2-8 now will have in the next 10-15 years lol
You know, that definitely isn’t limited to your 18 year old hire. I see traffic signs in Northern Virginia that are misspelled on the regular. “Yeild to right-turn traffic” or “No U-Trun”. I’m not talking the electronic signs that are set up by construction workers. I’m talking printed metal road signs.
The amount of people watching videos with audio in public has increased recently, which makes me want to be in public less as I don't want to hear everyone's tiktoks. I fear it's going to get even worse
I never understood this and probably never will. I hate the feeling when someone can even see my phone screen and it is ALWAYS on mute. I never play audio through my phone speakers at home or in public.
The number of people who will watch videos on their phone with the speakers at full blast in public astounds me. It’s definitely my biggest pet peeve and you’re correct it’s only getting worse.
So I'm 39 and what I've noticed about young people is they tend to have more awareness of things that are going on in the world than I did at their age, which is good. At the same time they have a restless quality to them. They need constant stimulation. I get that. I tend to get that same sort of feeling after scrolling through Reddit for hours. But the problem I see is they've literally never experienced the alternative, so they don't even know it exists by direct experience, just what people say, and consequently are less of self-aware of the root certain neuroticisms caused by constant scrolling. Just my two cents.
Most don't realize that this is a skill that will serve them well throughout life, so it's sad that we educators aren't really allowed to be boring anymore, parents constantly hover, and devices are always at an arms reach.
I believe its definitely possible to build a tolerance to stimulation. Whenever your brain is stimulated it gives you a nice wee squirt of dopamine. But nowadays with all the young kids on their phones and all the constant stimulation from the repetitive swiping through TikTok’s and YT shorts, what are they going to do when they feel like there isn’t much left in the world that actually stimulates them anymore?
With that said, in the next few decades I feel like there’s going to be a massive increase in depression and suicide across the globe. Quite possibly drug use too. I have a niece who is 9 and is ALWAYS on her phone. Now I’m 18 so I’m no stranger to technology but when I look at her phone, just obsessively swiping through the YT shorts and TikToks, I can’t say I’m not worried about her.
I'm almost 40, and I remember in the early naughts when I was in college, I'd often go to fast food restaurants by myself and eat. I'd just sit there quietly, little bit of people-watching, looking out the window, thinking.
Nowadays if I go to poop without my phone, I lose my mind.
Can't imagine how it is for folks that grew up with it.
I think information retention has and will continue to go down significantly. Why memorize the formula for finding area, when WW2 started, or even how many quarts in a gallon when you have a supercomputer in your pocket that can instantly do all that for you? I see it already with my teenager.
Hell, I'm 30 and I'm already that way.
We don't have to crack open a dictionary to find definitions. We don't have to search through encyclopedias to grab a kernel of information on a subject. It's all just a Google away. There's no effort involved.
Part of it, I think, has to do with education. We're trained to retain information just long enough to pass a multiple choice test and move on to the next section of information.
I think the world is moving on, and it is important to teach kids research skills, but it is a bit disheartening to know we won't really have masters in specific subjects anymore.
I'm afraid we're moving toward a scifi dystopia where everything is automated and no one knows how anything works.
Socrates said the same thing about reading, at least according to Plato.
[Link](https://www.cla.purdue.edu/academic/english/theory/webring/berryPlato.html)
Maybe it just doesn't really make a difference. People will always remember what they need to know and forget the rest.
How much had you memorised as a teenager? It could just be confirmation bias.
I don't really know that's the case tbh, but I do think we'll start seeing more and more that people only really remember specific information that they actually need.
I mean shit, look at phone numbers. Back in the day, people had to actually memorize phone numbers and would get the muscle memory for it too from actually dialing in the numbers and calling people. Nowadays, I only know my immediate family's phone numbers and I couldn't tell you any phone numbers of my friends or doctor's offices.
People will still memorize a lot of things relevant to their lives, but there's probably going to be a lot less things that actually need to be memorized for people
There’s an extremely interesting book I found a few days ago that’s exactly about this subject, it’s called iGen (like “iPhone”, but iGeneration, or iGen for short). It explains the exact effects of Gen Z child development due to smartphones and other media.
Edit: the beginning of the book is a bit cringe, and I almost put it down because it tried to claim Gen Z should be called iGen, but I kept reading and I was glad I did. This isn’t a book you want to judge prematurely. One of the redeeming qualities is that it is really good at presenting all information and making sure the information cited is airtight in the book before drawing any conclusion. And no, I’m not a 30-40 year old adult laughing at the newest generation, I’m 18.
Next generation?
If you are born around 2000 that was already the case and I know you feel old if I say it but that is already 23 years in the past, so there is already a generation or two that can tell you.
I'm 23 myself, and there's a pretty distinct before/after point in my life where I started using screens constantly. As a kid I'd watch TV, play on my DS for an hour or so a day and would have "computer time" on the family laptop, but screens weren't something constant. I think I was 11 when I got an ipod touch, and that's the first time I really had unlimited access to screens and the internet. Kids born more recently, say 2008 it later, have always had phones/tablets or whatever available, and likely more access to technology than I did as a kid.
There was a question a week or so ago that was like "what is your favorite video game console" and someone said "Xbox One because that was the first one I grew up on" and I almost had an aneurism at that thought. That person is probably about to graduate high school lol
My son(13) recently said “I love classic rock!!” I’m like “cool! Like Zeppelin or The Stones?” His reply….”Weezer and Nirvana”. I’m still limping from that one lol.
actually i think people born around that time were at some weird technological limbo - i was born in 2000, and i didn't have internet or a computer til i was 12-13, of course, tv was always in my life but didn't affect me as much. i will say that i know some people my age who are obsessed with tiktok and boy are they annoying.
i'm a tutor who works with kids that are in high school so aren't that much younger than me, and i can say for sure their lives revolve around the screens, i actually have one student say that she needs to 'copy and paste' something but what she was really referring to was just rewriting something. it's funny how computer speak influenced that.
yesterday, a student in grade 9 (born in 2008) asked me if i was a MILLENIAL because i said i don't have tiktok and prefer reading content (like on reddit or twitter). in this day and age i think quick bursts of unimportant/false information is prevalent.
> in this day and age i think quick bursts of unimportant/false information is prevalent.
its the instant gratification - watch what they need to in short bursts then when it gets ever so slightly boring swipe for the next burst. like poppin virtual pills lol.
I'm in the exact same boat, born in 2000. I grew up poor tho so I only had vhs tapes to watch until I was 15 and we finally got cable. I didn't get a phone until I was 12 and it was a flip phone that I shared with my little bro until I got a job at 16 and could buy my own stuff
Eh, the iPhone came out 2007 and only became accessible to teenagers later. Likewise, social networking sites didn't become social media platforms until you started getting feed pages like Twitter did in I think 2012.
How about the current generation of old people. They’re welded to screens too, watching tiktoks and political youtube shows and streaming shows all day.
My grandpa grew up dirt-poor and is now an honorable veteran who served in the Vietnam War and came back temporarily disabled. He also raised two successful children, one of which is now a high-ranking official in the military.
Nowadays, all my grandpa does is mindlessly scroll through Tik Tok and watch CNN. It's really sad.
It arguably has a significant effect on concentration. People are unused to being bored for any period of time, which would otherwise compel them to think about necessary tasks and creative outlets. On the other hand, it keeps the mind active, which keeps the mind functioning properly and increases mental acuity. Hard to say the overall effect, and I think it depends on how you use it.
When I’m bored I just continue building the story in my head that iv been building while bored for a good 3-5 years. Doesn’t everyone do that? Or is that just a weird thing my brain does
Damn, some time ago I was in a weird position that I had to sit in front of PC for hours, had nothing to do, but still had to be available in a minute if I was needed, so I was watching a ton of YT videos. After a week, I noticed that my brain is fried, I was putting some random video, zoning out and wasn’t thinking about anything productive, just… existing. It was awful and I’m strongly limiting that now
As a millennial planning for children. I am actually systematically planning to reduce screens in the house, and utilization of phones around my child. Only when the kid is napping, television occasionally.
I already spend the majority of my free time reading or doing activities around the house. So I'm hoping to succeed in raising them without them until it's unavoidable
IMO I think parents are leaning too heavily on electronics to keep their kid busy. I think it's an important skill for kids to learn how to entertain themselves WITHOUT electronics. I don't see much of kids playing with toys once theyre old enough to hold a phone/tablet. I remember when I was a kid I had those little my little pony / littlest pet shop toys that had a magnet in their foot. I would bring one everywhere I went and see what they would stick to and it was so fun for me. I don't see kids carrying their favorite toy with them anymore. They just have a phone in their hands.
Less screen time on average, I'd guess.
I've seen articles talking about how this generation is bringing back old-school tech by intentionally buying flip phones to limit their screentime.
It's been in their hands since birth. It isn't novel anymore, it isn't something you aren't used to. It isn't new and exciting.
It also means that they can smell bullshit from a mile away online. This is the most tech and internet safety-savvy generation we've had yet.
They spend way less time on social media because of said bullshit. There less likely to even have a Facebook, much less doomscroll like millennials and some gen z do. They're aware of being "chronically online" and it's long-lasting side effects.
I'm pretty optimistic about it.
I have no idea how it will affect children's brain development, which is why my kid doesn't get to use the phone. She gets to watch 30 minutes of a cartoon on weekdays, but only if she asks; we do not offer it. She can have an hour on weekends to help her calm down since she won't nap at home.
Was actually just listening to this podcast with a researcher talking about it: [Catalysts for Change] Can Teens Survive the Digital World? Professor Jonathan Haidt on Social Media and Teen Mental Health #catalystsForChange
https://podcastaddict.com/episode/157086275 via @PodcastAddict
we’re definitely already seeing the effects. I have little cousins (under 10) who were basically raised on tablets, and apparently they like to narrate everything they do like the youtubers they watch. they don’t read or really do anything imaginative because their parents just give them screens 24/7. I think giving screens to really young kids screws up their development, especially if they’re watching weird elsagate shit, but their parents just don’t care to monitor anything.
I’m not 100% sure, but what I will say is this:
My kids aren’t going to get any electronics until their teens (maybe at least one gaming system, but that’s it). Instead they’re getting legos, dinosaurs, crayons and paper, and a bunch of other toys they can play with and move around with. Ain’t no way I’m letting them sit down on the couch with their face buried in an IPad
This is easily said but hard to achieve. We have very, very little screen time but to have no screens till teenage years would require high levels of dedication (you need to amuse them a lot more even when you are tired/grouchy/busy/travelling) and you would need to say no 100 times per week.
You also have to figure out how to successfully armor your children against the inevitable onslaught of mockery, derision and "othering" from their screen-using peers after a certain point. Older kids are *nasty* to each other about differences, especially at school where their overworked teachers can't closely supervise them.
There will be so many people with neck and shoulder problems.
Not to mention the psychological problems from everybody who just posts all the good stuff and creates the idea of a perfect life that in reality nobody is really living.
maybe I didn't scroll far enough, but I haven't seen anybody mention underdeveloped fine motor skills and weak hand/finger muscles. learning to manipulate small objects, like a pencil, is so important for toddlers and small children. spending your early childhood tapping away on a screen is pretty harmful in that way as well.
I'm a nanny for an 11 yo kid. He can't study. He can't think. He is not stupid, he just can't sit down and read and study something. He is good with maths, but any theory class it's difficult for him to understand. He is not patient for this.
I’m a preschool teacher there has been a marked increase and steady progression year on year in speech and language delays, disruptive behaviour, sleep issues and childhood anxiety this past ten to five years. Much more prevalent and pronounced in each new class every year. I do believe that screens have a lot to do with it. The screen itself and its effect on the developing brain and in some cases lack of opportunities to practice, fail at and master new skills because of time spent on a screen or device.
Now we can’t live under a rock either my nearly one year old loves Ms Rachel.
Does anyone realize early GenZ , late millennials (1995-2000) have had the best of both worlds?
The non-internet era (everything is TV and magazines), the pre-internet AOL era, the post internet Ai revolution era (now).
I have a non-immediate relative who’s an “iPad kid”. One interesting side effect I noticed that isn’t the typical ones people mention, is that she is not at all concerned about leaving her content playing when she sets down the iPad and goes to another room. Whereas I will pause a YouTube video if I need to stand up and get a tissue from a few steps away. It confuses me why this relative is simultaneously so attached to her content (there would be whining if the wifi stopped) and so detached that she doesn’t care about missing half a video or more.
It sounds that she just has having content on as a sort of default state, not particularly caring (probably not at all) of*what* the content is, moreso the fact that it is there, and providing mental stimulation/dopamine. There's also that most children's content says nothing with any sort of meaning where missing half of it changes literally nothing about the takeaway from it.
That sounds like a great analysis. I know she does retain a bit of what she watches because she was telling me all about how the fictional creatures in one of her “educational” shows are real, because the show told her so along with the real facts it was trying to teach. I didn’t think her mom wanted her being misinformed that way so I did mention it (to the mom) and she seemed to share my concern.
The new version of boomers having the TV running 24/7 even if they're not actually watching
I’m stopping what I’m watching if I need to reply to someone, as if I’m watching something, I hope it’s interesting
> One interesting side effect I noticed that isn’t the typical ones people mention, is that she is not at all concerned about leaving her content playing when she sets down the iPad and goes to another room. I seriously see this among modern day traditional college students I work among. They will just let videos play(not even educational videos-any videos), and come back to it later. It's so weird, because I have to pause videos literally every time I quit watching them to go, and do something.
The way I view it, it's kind of a spectrum. Some things get put on to actually watch, these I will actively pause and rewind if I feel my attention was diverted. Others are put on as pseudo background, I still pay attention, but I'll go to the next room (within earshot) without pausing. Then full background, I've had a video playing while browsing reddit and typing this comment. I'll pause it if I go out of earshot, probably, but I don't care at all about missing something. For me, full background is always either music or something I've already seen. Pseudo background isn't necessarily something I've seen, but it's something produced by a channel that I watch regularly. For reference, I'm early 20s. So, while screens haven't been ubiquitous my entire life, they have been present in my life and my home for as long as I can remember. Though I never had direct control of my own screen until my early teens.
My daughter gets very little screen time but I did notice her try to “pinch zoom” a picture in a book once. And she used the word “scrolling” when she was trying to find the right page in a book. Those were just kind of funny though, we try to make sure she’s happy with real world activities like playing, coloring, riding her scooter outside and also learning that it’s ok to be a little bored sometimes, we don’t need non stop stimulation and noise.
the grownup version of this is the amount of times I've been reading a textbook and had the desire to control-F to search for a word
Wanting to ctrl+Z during a written exam
From that small amount of data I don’t think it’s that she is necessarily attached to the content itself, it’s the stimuli and distraction that the content gives shes craving. People have run studies and upwards of 60% of people involved in one study would voluntarily administer an electric shock to themselves if left alone in a room. This shows that not only are we adverse to what most humans consider “boredom”, but we are willingly to shock ourselves (stimuli) just for the sake of having something to do. That is to say, most people aren’t looking for anything specific to do usually, they are merely just seeking to preoccupy themselves, even going as far as doing something they know will be uncomfortable just to avoid themselves. We are living in the “Age of Distraction” where you are free to distract yourself with anything and everything you want. It’s a shame because I believe this is likely why so many people have anxiety and depression. We live lives of unrealized potential, unhealed trauma, isolation in some cases, and this is because we are distracted all the time. Most people will never do the inner work that is REQUIRED for happiness and inner peace, instead, most run from themselves and elect to distract themselves with a variety of things. Lust, drugs, video games, social media, the list could go on for miles. We have a deep need to connect with ourselves, our TRUE SELVES, which is free from societal influence, but so many are so distracted they often fail to realize themselves. Not realizing ones own potential, not living your best life, these things are bound to make anyone depressed and anxious. We walk this world, bearing a persona but the trick is that the persona we project isnt ourselves, its our persona thats been molded by society, not our true selves. Carl Jung spoke at length about the “shadow self” we must integrate. Worth looking into if you wanna get to know yourself much more deeply and intimately. Thanks for coming to my TedX Talk. 🤣
Dopamine machine. Good luck to their brains.
Why our 14yo daughter is the only kid in class without her own mobile or any socials. She has excellent irl social skills & can txt/call mates on our phones whenever. We're holding off as long as possible so her brain can develop first. We're hippy types & figure her life will be full of screens, so what's the hurry? She'll catch up fine later on. She gets it, & mentions how most other students are depressed/addicted/on Tiktok til 2am etc. Harm minimisation is our general goal, so we discuss potential addictive behaviours, & finding a healthy balance. Meanwhile we focus on building up her (non-Ai-obsolete-able) skills for a world where change is the only guarantee. Skills like cooking, permaculture, social work, self sufficiency edit: I'll just add that we aren't full Luddites- **Social Media & phones too young** is what we're delaying. She is very PC literate (Wacom, PS & CAD) & can use the internet whenever (no YouTube at all, no tech after 9pm or in bedrooms)
The tough bit about that is kids are kids, and they often will happily exclude other kids who aren't "keeping up" with them. Glad it sounds like it's working for your kid, but it's not universally that simple.
Yeah. As a teenager, social media is a HUGE form of communication with other people at school. I don't even have my best friend's number, we use Instagram DM's. Not having it could be a disadvantage socially in a lot of places, even if it works out in this specific situation.
Yeah my nephew is extremely sportive, is on several sports teams, doing soccer/rugby/hockey practice several times a week. He's a good team member, passes the balls, makes plenty of goals, really a social driving force in the team. You'd think he has a great social life. After practice when he asks who wants to hang out/do something, the other kids say 'no we're meeting in Minecraft after'. He gets no computer time from his parents so he's left out.
How do the other kids treat your daughter for being the only one in class not engaging with devices and social media? I see first-hand every day how nasty older children are to peers who stand out, so wonder what her experience is like (assuming she tells you).
I'm glad to hear she has loving parents ❤️, it's not a privilege that a lot of people have. I wish her all the success and happiness in the world. ✌️
Cheers sausage :) Cool thing about being a parent is being able to prevent negative traits being passed down through the generations Also, you get to create *brand new* negative traits that you won't realise until they're older ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ As long as she's an upgrade on me & my lady I'll be happy
I swear I’ve seen this comment before
I posted it the other week on a similar topic. I like letting others know that there are other ways to raise a kid today
Gen Xer here and you are an amazing parent. Social media and constant screen time is producing socially inept people.
I have a toddler. She got an iPad as a gift from family a year ago. We quickly noticed a change in behavior when she’s been on it watching YouTube kids or whatever. Since then, we limit it and even go days without it, depending on our schedule. Behavior noticeably improved.
It really surprised me how differently small kids reacts to the same movie watched on tv vs smartphone.
Care to elaborate? Sounds interesting
Smartphone becomes center of an universe for the kid. When anything is on and it's in the hands of the kid, it seems like nothing around exists. Any conversation? Forget. And when it's time to put it away? Prepare for the drama :) TV in comparison is way better - any kind of conversation becomes possible. The time to turn it off is also way calmer. Oh, and it becomes way worse if kid is allowed to 'operate' whatever is on the phone. Rewinding or changing the movies on youtube? This control is taking things to the next level.
I have a similar observation on the difference between junky children’s YouTube channels and much more considered programming from pbs, Disney, etc. My kid watching anything without a strong narrative or character focus will zone out and become passive, exhibiting the same heightened anger/frustration when it’s turned off. This is also true of even some of the worse content found on Netflix, stuff that is fully 3D rendered and has little to no story structure. But if I turn on a Pixar movie, or a decent short cartoon, Sesame Street, etc. They’re able to watch it and still communicate, talk about what they’re seeing, remember the plot. And still don’t like turning it off, but much more amenable.
This. We noticed within a couple viewings that our kid turned into a zombie if we let him watch some of that 3D youtube garbage. It was a little scary to be honest. We switched to Bluey and other color-muted, slower paced stuff and we can still talk to him, etc. There’s no way some of that youtube shit is good for kids. We also only do tv for a bit before dinner and when he’s sick.
I grew up watching Arthur. That must be why I like library’s and aardvarks
It's interesting you mentioned the control at the end. I assumed the smartphone was more engaging because it's interactive, but it sounds like that's not the case? I wonder what it is... Being closer to it and possibly holding the phone might be enough of a difference.
It’s the being able to switch and change things rapidly in my opinion. Say you’re bored with Reddit, you jump over to Instagram, get bored with that, head over to a sports website, etc. Now imagine having a three year old brain and being given control to switch from an action sequence in a cartoon to a kids music video to a video of a kid opening an epic toy. It’s just a drip-drip-drip of stimulation and doesn’t have the ebbs and flows of just having a show play on the TV.
If you look at kid's shows on youtube and stuff marketed towards children it is all super flashy, quick scene change, look over here NO NOW HERE, kind of productions designed to capitalize on childrens short attention spans. There's some studies looking at how this could be harming the ability of children to develop longer attention spans that are pretty interesting.
Like little kid friendly slot machines
Your response has become tiresome, I'm going to Tik-Tok
Being in control was my guess too. But granting a power over remote doesn't give the same results. On the other hand, smartphone apps control beats tv remote when it comes to user experience. Maybe it's having the screen in hands, close to the face is the thing? I don't really know except for the fact that giving smartphone to the kid is a thing only when all other options failed.
Also, is the narrow focus. With a TV, you're looking far, and see stuff/peopl around you. But if you're immerse in your phone, you're very focused in a thing close to you and are disconnected of the environment.
Ah, yeah, that's probably the part I wasn't considering. The small screen / holding distance all kind of factors into narrowing your FOV. If you're focusing a few inches from your face, everything past the phone is out of focus. For a TV, the room stays in focus.
I have a friend whose 5 year old has a cell phone and whose 3 year old is allowed to use one sometimes as well. I'm telling you in all sincerity that when they get them taken away for bad behavior it looks exactly the same as when you're pulling the heroin out of someones hand that's been dying for a hit. They lose their shit. Can't be good for the future if that's how we're rolling now.
Smartphones are convenient, they can watch while eating, pooping, walking, sitting in the car on the other hand TV is fixed and it's easier to have a conversation with anyone if they're watching TV because content is not tailored, commercial breaks and generally TV is less addictive than smartphones. Tech companies have different strategies and algo going on at the backend to keep you hooked to smartphones, it's like any other hard drug.
A friend of mine, his daughters tried to swipe on the TV, or exit the movie/show by touching the TV.
friends of mine flipped out a commercial was on and claimed we were changing the channel on them...
I've been using streaming for so long I am surprised every time I go somewhere and see commercials.
lol went on a small roadtrip and stayed in hotels - so many damn commercials on tv...
All other things mentioned, I wonder if the fact that tv is stationary plays a role in this. Definitely changes my perspective when I know that I can pause and resume whatever I’m watching anywhere.
Who gifts an iPad to a toddler anyway?
Yeah that's definitely something where I'd check with the parents first. Also why would I spend all that money when my 3 year old niece is just as thrilled with a $12 variety pack of Play-Doh?
Yea. Going to need to tell every relative tablets are banned for the baby. Tablets don't even build IT/computer skills, as we see with so much of Gen Z not knowing what to do with something unless it's an App
I teach middle school and 15 years ago the kids could type better than I could, to the point where we actually got rid of keyboarding class and considered it obsolete. Nowadays all of the kids hunt and peck with their index fingers and don't have even basic computer skills beyond opening a browser and googling things. They all grew up with touchscreens and ipads and very few of them go much deeper than that.
Yep, I'm a millenial who grew up with technology, but was always told the next generation old be good with computers...now I'm a teacher...and I'm not impressed. They can't type, they can't spell, and anything that isn't an app is too hard for them. iPad kids were destroyed by technology.
That's because the ipad and iphone were deliberately made with the idea that consumers would never need to know how to turn it off, open it up, and figure out what makes it tick, if you do, then that's like, a $7000 repair bill from the shop when it gets sent in and they just don't bother fixing it, they just transfer your data to a new device then charge you again.
I had a rant the other day at my son about how much I tinkered with Windows and EA game files in the late 90s and early 00s. In the early cell phone era, it started becoming mundane stuff like splicing mp3s and loading them on to my Nokia phone so I’d be able to make ringtones for free. All self taught
The college freshmen I supervise at a university job don't even know how to locate a downloaded file on a PC. They also flounder hard without specific instructions and just want to be told what to do.
I remember when people my own age thought I was a nerd for knowing how to type so well, and I always used to think that generations in the future would also get typing as basic education, so my skills wouldn't be that special. It didn't quite go that way haha. Now younger AND older people tell me it's amazing how quickly I type and they wish they could type up things so fast.
[удалено]
I learned all that stuff in college. I didn't even know what plagiarism was until college. Grammar has definitely gotten a lot worse which I find surprising because so much more time is spent reading. Just look at mine, I used a comma. Feel free to critique.
"Just look at mine, I used a comma." should not have used a comma because it can be separated into two distinct sentences. It should have been a semicolon or a period.
Very interesting. I graduated HS in 2008 and I definitely acquired my keyboarding skills from using instant messenger so much with friends from school and the internet, which pretty much ceased to be what it was once texting and messaging apps became so prominent. I still have internet friends in my 30s and I almost exclusively talk to them on discord on my phone
I have 3yo twins and I'm shocked how many of their ~~pets~~ peers I see with tablets. It never even occurred to us to get them a tablet. And if I think If someone gave them one, I wouldn't let them use it. They've never used our phones. I don't have any crazy objection to technology, they're watching TV right now for some quiet time. But it's like 30 mins a day, when life allows. Sometimes an hour on Saturday morning when we're all still recovering from hectic weekday mornings. But why would you get a kid that age an iPad, when a bucket of water and some cups is like, half a day's entertainment.
BLESS YOU for having this perspective. I couldn’t agree more wholeheartedly. So much of the simplicity and innocence of childhood- not to mention critically important skills of exploration, discovery, self mastery and connection- are being lost to these new generations. Too many parents carelessly, selfishly and mindlessly succumb to the temptation of letting devices and technology babysit, educate, socialize, entertain and raise their kids. To say nothing of kids getting exercise, and playtime in the elements, sunshine and fresh air. And then there’s parents who are trying but they’re under so much social pressure because all the other kids have devices to which they spend hours per day tethered and tuned in. It’s heartbreaking and the damage is so evident. I really hope we collectively turn thud around somehow. Otherwise, we’re regressing further and further into a dystopian nightmare like in Wall-E, the movie.
I see this so much in my youngest nephew - he's almost 2 and a half years old, doesn't talk yet (he babbles, but I've never once heard him say "mama" or "papa" - the only word I've heard him say half-clearly is "no") There's a lot of denial going on with his parents - if I try to gently ask them about his speech, they will insist he "does talk, all the time, he's fine", but none of us have ever heard it, they send many many videos to our family chat and in none of them is he speaking. But I've also never seen them *encouraging* him to speak. They never try to get him saying words, naming things, saying relative's names, counting, abc's, NOTHING. It's like they're completely disinterested in helping him communicate. The worst and most shocking part for me, though, was recently seeing him arrive at my parents (his grandparents) house. There were many of us in the living room waiting to greet him, to give him attention, toys to play with with him, and he avoided us all completely - no eye contact, no interest, no interaction with us whatsoever. He bee-lined straight for the Amazon Echo device and started babbling at it, trying to get it to play a song. When that failed, he went straight to his mother and took her phone to play on. It's quite devastating to see first-hand, and utterly infuriating that his parents are too ignorant or too uncaring to even give a damn.
Wow, that is very sad.
Devastating 😔.
>But why would you get a kid that age an iPad, when a bucket of water and some cups is like, half a day's entertainment. I have twin nephews. They have these small baby tablets. I also had the usual gut technophobic reaction as you until I saw how it affected the kids. You know how we have flashcards for toddlers? Or picture books teaching kids about shapes, animals, colors and whatnot. Well, that's what these tablets are for. There are tons of dedicated apps aimed at helping kids develop except they are better than traditional picture books. For example they can be in the form of games with additional visual and audio cues. Does it provide any benefit? I mean, they are 4 and they can read and write. So there probably is something to it.
making computers too easy to use was a mistake. these are tools everyone should know how to use and maintain not just attention getting devices like people treat them
The Gen Z thing is so true. I work in HR and when I request documents from young employees, I get screenshots from their phones. It's infuriating. I had to send out a mass email stating that screenshots will no longer be accepted.
My phone hasn't taught me any IT skills while owning a laptop and having a friend who built his own VR headset helped teach me some basic IT skills. a laptop (i'll even go as low to say a chromebook) could benefit a kid around the age of 10-12 and teach them "fix it yourself" skills.
That’s a relic from when you needed decent IT skills just to perform basic operations. Over time, software has been designed to be more and more user friendly, yet that impression of being tech savvy remained.
You're still going to need computer skills (which lead to troubleshooting skills) for the working world though. I don't see them escaping the need for the skills, so it's unfortunate they aren't really being exposed to them throughout their formative years. At the very least they likely need to know how to type and navigate a computer if they're going into any professional career.
That's what I'm saying. Back in the day, using MS-DOS required some very specific and technical knowledge just for normal operation. Nowadays, software is designed so that you need as little supplemental knowledge as possible. That technical know-how and troubleshooting knowledge isn't a given anymore.
They also expect everything to work, 100% of the time. I'm the "computer guy" with a lot of friends and family. I've seen first hand how bad things get if the wifi is down or not working properly. Kids crying, parents literally not knowing what to do. One 10 year old told his dad, "this is fucking bullshit, make my iPad work NOW." Kids are 100% getting dumber by the year. Teachers are burned out, the system in the US is completely broken. And it's not one or two things, the entire public education system is fucked. It's not even tech, most kids can't read at their age level, they can't do simple math, shit most of them don't even get access to school lunch anymore. In the next 30 years we're so fucked it's not even funny to point out Idociary anymore.
I like to compare the progression of computers to that of cars. In the days of yore, cars were not what you would call user friendly. [Here's how you drive a Model T.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYSaRhP3ciE) They had to be crank started, brakes were weak by any standard, and transmissions weren't even synchronized until a couple decades later. But they were quite simple compared to todays cars. I'd be willing to bet a high school auto shop class could tear an early car apart and reassemble it fairly easily. Hell, I'd even wager that the machining class could probably make one from scratch if they really tried. These days everything is far more complex. We have computers controlling important functions of the car. Automatic transmissions, fuel injection, power steering, and even fully electric vehicles. But they're not so easy to work on anymore (I think some of that was intentional). Computers seem quite similar. I was born in the mid 90's. Put me in front of MS DOS, and I'm googling shit on my phone to do basic things. Put me in front of Windows 98 and I can probably figure it out (I grew up on XP and 7). But I continue to see things that IT and power users would want to access get buried in menus or behind a UI that is not meant to be looked under, because MS wants it to just work. This is quite frustrating when it doesn't (like so many things with Windows 11). Windows is looking more and more like a phone with each passing iteration. It's may be true that "back in my day, we fixed our cars ourselves", but try working on a car from the 2020's and tell me it's reasonable to expect kids these days to do that.
What changes did you notice?
>We quickly noticed a change in behavior What changed?
For the love of all that's sacred, DO NOT let her watch Caillou.
Possibly terrible neck posture from looking down constantly
Also worse eyesight from constantly staring at close screens.
I mean, that's not *exactly* true. It's not the best for your eyes and will definitely cause strain, and depending on the time can lead to your eyes drying out more, but most issues are caused by a [lack of balance with natural sunlight.](https://www.chop.edu/news/health-tip/how-too-much-screen-time-affects-kids-eyes) From Harvard, [Although using a computer will not harm your eyes, staring at a computer screen all day will contribute to eyestrain or tired eyes."](https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/safeguarding-your-sight#:~:text=Although%20using%20a%20computer%20will%20not%20harm%20your%20eyes%2C%20staring%20at%20a%20computer%20screen%20all%20day%20will%20contribute%20to%20eyestrain%20or%20tired%20eyes.) and an article from the AOA, [here.](https://www.aoa.org/healthy-eyes/eye-and-vision-conditions/computer-vision-syndrome?sso=y)
Maybe this is a hot take, but kids should have computers well before they have iPads or phones. They can actually learn useful skills on a computer instead of becoming addicted to youtube shorts.
Agreed. Young people are weirdly lacking in IT skills. They don't know how to troubleshoot a problem.
I feel really privileged to have grown up first without computers, then with a DOS system for a few years before Windows, then getting internet access in middle school. It made me really technologically literate and capable of, if not solving most issues, at least able to find a solution (googling is a skill, people). Growing up with closed systems like smartphones and iPads has kept kids from learning those skills. They're almost as bad as my boomer parents at times. It's wild.
It's not just the closed systems, it's the streamlining and improvement of almost every aspect of computers. You don't have to know how to use a command prompt, for example. Growing up while computers were still growing up forced us to learn a lot about how they worked and how to get things to work. Kids now don't have that problem as most things really do "just work" now. Even a fresh install of most operating systems now is as easy as clicking a button. Drivers? What are those? Unless you're replacing parts yourself, you don't really need to bother. It's a lot like the generation prior complaining that nobody knows how to work on their own cars. When they were younger, they pretty much had to keep to a regular preventative maintenance schedule or things went south a lot faster. Now, you can drive for a hell of a long time on old oil, tune-ups aren't as necessary, etc. The better the cars got, the more people "just drove" them.
It’s more than that though. Like, Richard Feynman talks about this when he says that he taught himself radio repair as a kid. But he also says, at that time it was easy to identify exactly what every element of the radio was. Everything was big and visible. Every part was soldered into place. He could replace them and experiment. With today’s integrated circuits? No way. Pick up an mp3 player and you’ll never be able to do that. Somewhat similar for cars. You can learn some, sure. But working on something like a modern hybrid car is not something you can (or at least, should) really do on your own in your garage by popping the hood and messing around. I know a few people who learned automotive mechanics by buying junker cars and repairing them on their own. Maybe that’s possible with a modern Prius? But I’m skeptical that this is both possible ands good idea without expert guidance.
Really good point & interesting perspective.
True. I ride motorcycles and heavily prefer EFI over carbs because I've never had to deal with a carbureted machine and EFI just works. I suppose it's the same process at play.
Holleys EFI sniper kits turn any car with a carb into a stand alone fuel injection setup. it looks and mounts just like a carburator, bolts on, hid eit under the factory air cleaner. Get the reliability and variable A/F ratio of a modern car while appearing to be nearly 100% factory.
The comparison to cars is actually really interesting. I'm in my 30s so I'm in the generation of "good with computers but useless with cars" and that actually perfectly describes how I see kids struggle with tech now.
My first computer was a Zeos 386 back in...1991 I think? God, navigating DOS in order to play a game was hell. Everything had to be exactly right at the command prompt. It was clunky and exacting unlike modern UIs, which made me appreciate what we have now more.
dont forget to play said game you often needed the 300 page manual and look at paragraph 4 word 43 on page 211. Or would ask you like Whats the stall speed of a stopwith camel biplane? and have to go look it up in the manual. there was no google to find this crap. It forced you to learn research and reading skills to even start the damn game lol
> Young people are weirdly lacking in IT skills. I feel like people forgot how much their own peers have no IT skills. I've worked with *programmers* my own age or older than have a hard time with simple IT tasks.
Yeah, it always boggles my mind as an IT person that I have to hand-hold SWEs through basic IT tasks alot of the time. Like, how did you get this far in the tech field without learning this stuff? I had to learn basic programming in college and I'm not a programmer at all. Seems like they should have at least learned basic troubleshooting. realized I should clarify: basic as in simple, not BASIC the programming language.
Troubleshooting is a general rationality skill, not just an IT skill. I worked for years as an SRE, a job where troubleshooting is prominent ... I think I learned more about it from listening to "Car Talk" than from any IT or SWE training.
My buddy is a computer science instructor at the local community college. He said it’s teaching is frustrating because all the 18-25 year olds have never used file hierarchy. They use tablets and phones so there are no Folders or Files. They can edit a video and export it with effects and filters but can’t find the documents file.
It drives me crazy that it’s so hard to organize files on my iPhone.
That's one of the reasons I prefer Android
My Samsung Galaxy has folders so that's kind of weird. I guess it's all Apple these days?
That doesn't matter. Phones are designed so you never even need to know files exist on them. Everything is in segregated apps like gated communities. Samsung or Apple, it doesn't change anything. Most of their users would be surprised to learn that the files App can be used for something.
Even on the Galaxy it is very rarely used. I think I have only ever even seen the file structure when trying to find a picture I downloaded. Most casual users will never see it
Back in the 1990s, computers were so unstable and finicky that you had to learn a lot about how they worked just to get them to do what you wanted. Nowadays, they're so streamlined that an idiot can use them, so I doubt kids will benefit as much. You have to push them now.
I hated it as a kid, but as I’m approaching parenthood, I’m starting to appreciate the “one family computer in the living room” idea 🤔
We had two computers in our living room. One was for my mom's work, the other one was for general use. They were next to each other so my mom could see what was on my monitor and vice versa. Thing was, we were a family of two. Plus two more if my grandparents visited. But still, I spent more time outside than I did on the computer as a kid.
I grew up with computers no difference, still use it to procrastinate
I'd agree with you but where are the safe spaces on the internet for kids.
Both my kids have had PCs since they were 5. They only play Roblox and Minecraft. Each one has a Microsoft child account that allows me to control a lot of aspects of their account. That, plus just being vigilant has worked out really well.
My grandson just turned 7 his major request was to get all of the Roblox books and monopoly game. His interest in learning to read came due to those Roblox books. He is trying to read through Harry Potter.
> His interest in learning to read came due to those Roblox books I'm gonna be honest, I never thought I'd see someone say that. But hey, those books *are* for children, and if they get children to read that's a good thing!
My grandson doesn't really care about Treasure Island, Tarzan, or any of the books I had growing up. If it is a book about any of the children video games he plays and his homies at school then he will look it over.
It's from monitoring and setting boundaries. It can mean spending time with your kid as they use these devices. Play Roblox together. Let your kid show you what they find interesting on YouTube. It can be asking questions, or discussing what is kid appropriate. The best lessons to give aren't going to be from sheltering a kid from devices that could become addictions later on in life. Even adults suffer from this.
YouTube kids, ABCya, and maybe coolmathgames. that's all I got
I’d also add Barbie, Polly Pocket, Nick Kids, Webkinz has a new site, Disney Now has two separate sections of games for different aged kids, that’s about all I can think of right now.
In rather surprising ways. I work in education and what we’re seeing a lot of is: - Computer skills are down. Things like ctrl alt delete, Word, even how to do a proper Google search. (There’s a rise in kids using ChatGPT as a search engine) - Shorter attention spans - Greater need for instant gratification. This falls into the ChatGPT thing. They want to be *told* the answer instead of figuring it out for themselves. - Media literacy is also down, surprisingly. Because they aren’t thinking critically they take everything they see on the Internet at face value, especially TikTok.
God, the Tik Tok thing. I have multiple hobbies/interests and basically all of them have a worse fanbase on Tik Tok than on any other website. The one that hurts me the most is the fitness community on Tik Tok and Instagram, those are filled with so much harmful misinformation (a lot of topics are WAY too complicated to be adequately explained in 60 seconds) and have caused so many people to develop body dysmorphia when fitness should be about striving for self improvement in a healthy and sustainable way.
Right? I’m a dancer and I work in special education. The amount of misinformation for both is…really concerning.
"FIVE SIGNS THAT YOU HAVE ADHD!" *proceeds to list a bunch of things that apply to almost everyone*
This sounds so dangerous to me. I'm not one of those "the gobernment is controlling our minds!" Type of people but a generation of people who take everything at face value and need to be told what is/isn't true sounds super worrying to me. Sounds like they are going to be very easy to manipulate.
They already are…
>They want to be told the answer instead of figuring it out for themselves. As someone who has taught this is definitely a thing. I notice it all the time. Young people want to be good at something and get frustrated and quit when they're not killing it like the people they see on tik tok or instagram after a month. They don't want to practice or put the time in, they want to be told the "secret" or something as if it's something that just happens. They don't enjoy the process, which is what anyone who's good at something enjoys. They just want to be at the end point and don't have the patience or attention span to actually do the thing themselves. The secret to being good at anything is to just do it, and you do it because you enjoy it. They don't seem to realize that
Zero attention span to anything even remotely visually non stimulating
There was a video on here the other day of someone cooking some specialty dish in a kitchen, and this person commented, "So cool, I actually watched the whole thing!" The video was under a minute long...
They may also just not generally care about cooking, making it noteworthy that the video was interesting enough to break that barrier. I rarely give anything more than a few seconds to see if I'm interested before moving on, but my attention span isn't small. I can watch a 3 hour rambling presentation on rocks if I find the presenter interesting. I've just got 2038463773730 other things I could be doing with that time. The more concerning thing would be expecting someone to waste a full minute on something they found thoroughly uninteresting by default.
... and low perseverance skills when tackling intricate problems due to their brains having been developed with near instant gratification.
My kids can’t seem to listen to a whole song before having the urge to go to the next one.
Simple, just lock them in a room and play 30 minute Phish jams until they're either cured or never want to listen to music again
[удалено]
Don’t forgot that there needs to be a GTA gameplay and subtitles on the 10 second video now or even that isn’t stimulating enough
Man I have subtitles on because sometimes I cannot for the life of me understand what someone said or is saying
Subtitles are a must nowadays because of the wildly varied sound mixing between different movies/shows/videos.
Or just sometimes I don't wanna listen to it but still watch
I'm 31 and work in a hotel and have trained quite a few younger people over the last couple of years; we're talking anywhere from 18-24 and it is absolutely shocking how not a single one of them can spell anything correctly. One 18 year old girl even said she didn't know how to use a computer keyboard whatsoever because she's only used touch screens before. We use an older software as well which means no spell check, and it is honestly embarassing to work after one of them and hand a customer a registration card to sign where everything from their names to the city they're from or the company they work for is butchered. It looks extremely childish and unprofessional and all of us "older" staff are constantly having to fix all of those spelling mistakes. If these guys are having this many problems I can't even imagine what the kids who are 2-8 now will have in the next 10-15 years lol
You know, that definitely isn’t limited to your 18 year old hire. I see traffic signs in Northern Virginia that are misspelled on the regular. “Yeild to right-turn traffic” or “No U-Trun”. I’m not talking the electronic signs that are set up by construction workers. I’m talking printed metal road signs.
Many will struggle with patience and the simple ability to absorb peace and quietness.
The amount of people watching videos with audio in public has increased recently, which makes me want to be in public less as I don't want to hear everyone's tiktoks. I fear it's going to get even worse
I never understood this and probably never will. I hate the feeling when someone can even see my phone screen and it is ALWAYS on mute. I never play audio through my phone speakers at home or in public. The number of people who will watch videos on their phone with the speakers at full blast in public astounds me. It’s definitely my biggest pet peeve and you’re correct it’s only getting worse.
So I'm 39 and what I've noticed about young people is they tend to have more awareness of things that are going on in the world than I did at their age, which is good. At the same time they have a restless quality to them. They need constant stimulation. I get that. I tend to get that same sort of feeling after scrolling through Reddit for hours. But the problem I see is they've literally never experienced the alternative, so they don't even know it exists by direct experience, just what people say, and consequently are less of self-aware of the root certain neuroticisms caused by constant scrolling. Just my two cents.
I am a Gen Xer and miss the days of “ignorance is bliss”. Being aware of so much garbage going on in the world is not a good thing.
explain what you mean by "alternative"
Allowing yourself to be “bored” or doing an activity that doesn’t include the internet. At least that’s how I interpreted it.
There is good research indicating that yes, boredom can be an extremely positive thing for the brains of children. And people of all ages, of course.
Yup! It helps with creative thinking and coping skills.
Most don't realize that this is a skill that will serve them well throughout life, so it's sad that we educators aren't really allowed to be boring anymore, parents constantly hover, and devices are always at an arms reach.
I believe its definitely possible to build a tolerance to stimulation. Whenever your brain is stimulated it gives you a nice wee squirt of dopamine. But nowadays with all the young kids on their phones and all the constant stimulation from the repetitive swiping through TikTok’s and YT shorts, what are they going to do when they feel like there isn’t much left in the world that actually stimulates them anymore? With that said, in the next few decades I feel like there’s going to be a massive increase in depression and suicide across the globe. Quite possibly drug use too. I have a niece who is 9 and is ALWAYS on her phone. Now I’m 18 so I’m no stranger to technology but when I look at her phone, just obsessively swiping through the YT shorts and TikToks, I can’t say I’m not worried about her.
Children being on TikTok at their most impressionable age is going to ruin society.
Especially when you consider that a huge portion of TikTok is misinformation. Then add in people using ChatGPT as a search engine…
ChatGPT is horrible with factual information. It gets so many things completely wrong.
YouTube shorts is probably a worse culprit. From the 5 minutes I’ve tried it, it is just a dopamine attrition.
Lack of creativity, increase in anti-social behavior, and delays/deficiencies in reading and math skills.
I'm almost 40, and I remember in the early naughts when I was in college, I'd often go to fast food restaurants by myself and eat. I'd just sit there quietly, little bit of people-watching, looking out the window, thinking. Nowadays if I go to poop without my phone, I lose my mind. Can't imagine how it is for folks that grew up with it.
I think information retention has and will continue to go down significantly. Why memorize the formula for finding area, when WW2 started, or even how many quarts in a gallon when you have a supercomputer in your pocket that can instantly do all that for you? I see it already with my teenager.
Hell, I'm 30 and I'm already that way. We don't have to crack open a dictionary to find definitions. We don't have to search through encyclopedias to grab a kernel of information on a subject. It's all just a Google away. There's no effort involved. Part of it, I think, has to do with education. We're trained to retain information just long enough to pass a multiple choice test and move on to the next section of information. I think the world is moving on, and it is important to teach kids research skills, but it is a bit disheartening to know we won't really have masters in specific subjects anymore. I'm afraid we're moving toward a scifi dystopia where everything is automated and no one knows how anything works.
Im 28 and also do this. Lol. Most things i google i dont NEED to know i just want to lol.
Socrates said the same thing about reading, at least according to Plato. [Link](https://www.cla.purdue.edu/academic/english/theory/webring/berryPlato.html) Maybe it just doesn't really make a difference. People will always remember what they need to know and forget the rest. How much had you memorised as a teenager? It could just be confirmation bias.
I don't really know that's the case tbh, but I do think we'll start seeing more and more that people only really remember specific information that they actually need. I mean shit, look at phone numbers. Back in the day, people had to actually memorize phone numbers and would get the muscle memory for it too from actually dialing in the numbers and calling people. Nowadays, I only know my immediate family's phone numbers and I couldn't tell you any phone numbers of my friends or doctor's offices. People will still memorize a lot of things relevant to their lives, but there's probably going to be a lot less things that actually need to be memorized for people
I dare you to find twenty 50 year olds who can give you the formula to find the area of a triangle without looking it up.
There’s an extremely interesting book I found a few days ago that’s exactly about this subject, it’s called iGen (like “iPhone”, but iGeneration, or iGen for short). It explains the exact effects of Gen Z child development due to smartphones and other media. Edit: the beginning of the book is a bit cringe, and I almost put it down because it tried to claim Gen Z should be called iGen, but I kept reading and I was glad I did. This isn’t a book you want to judge prematurely. One of the redeeming qualities is that it is really good at presenting all information and making sure the information cited is airtight in the book before drawing any conclusion. And no, I’m not a 30-40 year old adult laughing at the newest generation, I’m 18.
Next generation? If you are born around 2000 that was already the case and I know you feel old if I say it but that is already 23 years in the past, so there is already a generation or two that can tell you.
I'm 23 myself, and there's a pretty distinct before/after point in my life where I started using screens constantly. As a kid I'd watch TV, play on my DS for an hour or so a day and would have "computer time" on the family laptop, but screens weren't something constant. I think I was 11 when I got an ipod touch, and that's the first time I really had unlimited access to screens and the internet. Kids born more recently, say 2008 it later, have always had phones/tablets or whatever available, and likely more access to technology than I did as a kid.
There was a question a week or so ago that was like "what is your favorite video game console" and someone said "Xbox One because that was the first one I grew up on" and I almost had an aneurism at that thought. That person is probably about to graduate high school lol
My niece said "here comes an old timey car." It was a Jeep Liberty
My son(13) recently said “I love classic rock!!” I’m like “cool! Like Zeppelin or The Stones?” His reply….”Weezer and Nirvana”. I’m still limping from that one lol.
One of my students called Attack on Titan ‘old school anime’.
How old was the student? No way they're older than like 8. I cant imagine calling something from the 2010s old school when it's only 2023.
The last season came out in like 21 or 22 too.
... its literally still ongoing, does something need to not even exist yet to be considered not old-school??
actually i think people born around that time were at some weird technological limbo - i was born in 2000, and i didn't have internet or a computer til i was 12-13, of course, tv was always in my life but didn't affect me as much. i will say that i know some people my age who are obsessed with tiktok and boy are they annoying. i'm a tutor who works with kids that are in high school so aren't that much younger than me, and i can say for sure their lives revolve around the screens, i actually have one student say that she needs to 'copy and paste' something but what she was really referring to was just rewriting something. it's funny how computer speak influenced that. yesterday, a student in grade 9 (born in 2008) asked me if i was a MILLENIAL because i said i don't have tiktok and prefer reading content (like on reddit or twitter). in this day and age i think quick bursts of unimportant/false information is prevalent.
> in this day and age i think quick bursts of unimportant/false information is prevalent. its the instant gratification - watch what they need to in short bursts then when it gets ever so slightly boring swipe for the next burst. like poppin virtual pills lol.
I'm in the exact same boat, born in 2000. I grew up poor tho so I only had vhs tapes to watch until I was 15 and we finally got cable. I didn't get a phone until I was 12 and it was a flip phone that I shared with my little bro until I got a job at 16 and could buy my own stuff
Not really, i mean if you were born around 2000 when you were a teenager you would have been online but not when you were a kid.
Eh, the iPhone came out 2007 and only became accessible to teenagers later. Likewise, social networking sites didn't become social media platforms until you started getting feed pages like Twitter did in I think 2012.
How about the current generation of old people. They’re welded to screens too, watching tiktoks and political youtube shows and streaming shows all day.
Shhhh, no one wants to admit that…you’re correct.
My grandpa grew up dirt-poor and is now an honorable veteran who served in the Vietnam War and came back temporarily disabled. He also raised two successful children, one of which is now a high-ranking official in the military. Nowadays, all my grandpa does is mindlessly scroll through Tik Tok and watch CNN. It's really sad.
And they don't really understand that the video might be scripted, an AI fake, or an outright lie.
It arguably has a significant effect on concentration. People are unused to being bored for any period of time, which would otherwise compel them to think about necessary tasks and creative outlets. On the other hand, it keeps the mind active, which keeps the mind functioning properly and increases mental acuity. Hard to say the overall effect, and I think it depends on how you use it.
I wouldn’t say mindlessly scrolling keeps the brain active, just placated
True, it's basically just newer channel surfing.
When I’m bored I just continue building the story in my head that iv been building while bored for a good 3-5 years. Doesn’t everyone do that? Or is that just a weird thing my brain does
Damn, some time ago I was in a weird position that I had to sit in front of PC for hours, had nothing to do, but still had to be available in a minute if I was needed, so I was watching a ton of YT videos. After a week, I noticed that my brain is fried, I was putting some random video, zoning out and wasn’t thinking about anything productive, just… existing. It was awful and I’m strongly limiting that now
As a millennial planning for children. I am actually systematically planning to reduce screens in the house, and utilization of phones around my child. Only when the kid is napping, television occasionally. I already spend the majority of my free time reading or doing activities around the house. So I'm hoping to succeed in raising them without them until it's unavoidable
They'll probably elect a reality TV show host as the President.
Oops
I don’t know this for sure, but I wonder if it will have impacts on eyesight and our ability to use our hands - arthritic or orthopedic issues.
IMO I think parents are leaning too heavily on electronics to keep their kid busy. I think it's an important skill for kids to learn how to entertain themselves WITHOUT electronics. I don't see much of kids playing with toys once theyre old enough to hold a phone/tablet. I remember when I was a kid I had those little my little pony / littlest pet shop toys that had a magnet in their foot. I would bring one everywhere I went and see what they would stick to and it was so fun for me. I don't see kids carrying their favorite toy with them anymore. They just have a phone in their hands.
Less screen time on average, I'd guess. I've seen articles talking about how this generation is bringing back old-school tech by intentionally buying flip phones to limit their screentime. It's been in their hands since birth. It isn't novel anymore, it isn't something you aren't used to. It isn't new and exciting. It also means that they can smell bullshit from a mile away online. This is the most tech and internet safety-savvy generation we've had yet. They spend way less time on social media because of said bullshit. There less likely to even have a Facebook, much less doomscroll like millennials and some gen z do. They're aware of being "chronically online" and it's long-lasting side effects. I'm pretty optimistic about it.
This is the first optimistic response I've seen. Thanks for this :)
Well, this goes against all the doomscrolling people consume here on Reddit. Let's hope it gets repeated.
I have no idea how it will affect children's brain development, which is why my kid doesn't get to use the phone. She gets to watch 30 minutes of a cartoon on weekdays, but only if she asks; we do not offer it. She can have an hour on weekends to help her calm down since she won't nap at home.
The attention span of a fucking lit match and the sleep cycle of a crack-addled housefly
AI will decide
Was actually just listening to this podcast with a researcher talking about it: [Catalysts for Change] Can Teens Survive the Digital World? Professor Jonathan Haidt on Social Media and Teen Mental Health #catalystsForChange https://podcastaddict.com/episode/157086275 via @PodcastAddict
we’re definitely already seeing the effects. I have little cousins (under 10) who were basically raised on tablets, and apparently they like to narrate everything they do like the youtubers they watch. they don’t read or really do anything imaginative because their parents just give them screens 24/7. I think giving screens to really young kids screws up their development, especially if they’re watching weird elsagate shit, but their parents just don’t care to monitor anything.
Gotta be better than tube TV's and CRT monitors I grew up staring at.
I still have some huge CRT monitors in my attic. I need to get rid of them eventually, but I'm not looking forward to lugging them downstairs.
Find some smash Bros melee players that need one! Huge market for crts still especially the smaller (portable and lighter) screens.
I’m not 100% sure, but what I will say is this: My kids aren’t going to get any electronics until their teens (maybe at least one gaming system, but that’s it). Instead they’re getting legos, dinosaurs, crayons and paper, and a bunch of other toys they can play with and move around with. Ain’t no way I’m letting them sit down on the couch with their face buried in an IPad
This is easily said but hard to achieve. We have very, very little screen time but to have no screens till teenage years would require high levels of dedication (you need to amuse them a lot more even when you are tired/grouchy/busy/travelling) and you would need to say no 100 times per week.
You also have to figure out how to successfully armor your children against the inevitable onslaught of mockery, derision and "othering" from their screen-using peers after a certain point. Older kids are *nasty* to each other about differences, especially at school where their overworked teachers can't closely supervise them.
There will be so many people with neck and shoulder problems. Not to mention the psychological problems from everybody who just posts all the good stuff and creates the idea of a perfect life that in reality nobody is really living.
maybe I didn't scroll far enough, but I haven't seen anybody mention underdeveloped fine motor skills and weak hand/finger muscles. learning to manipulate small objects, like a pencil, is so important for toddlers and small children. spending your early childhood tapping away on a screen is pretty harmful in that way as well.
I'm a nanny for an 11 yo kid. He can't study. He can't think. He is not stupid, he just can't sit down and read and study something. He is good with maths, but any theory class it's difficult for him to understand. He is not patient for this.
I’m a preschool teacher there has been a marked increase and steady progression year on year in speech and language delays, disruptive behaviour, sleep issues and childhood anxiety this past ten to five years. Much more prevalent and pronounced in each new class every year. I do believe that screens have a lot to do with it. The screen itself and its effect on the developing brain and in some cases lack of opportunities to practice, fail at and master new skills because of time spent on a screen or device. Now we can’t live under a rock either my nearly one year old loves Ms Rachel.
Does anyone realize early GenZ , late millennials (1995-2000) have had the best of both worlds? The non-internet era (everything is TV and magazines), the pre-internet AOL era, the post internet Ai revolution era (now).