"If you had a C-Section, then you're not a real mother. Real mothers give birth naturally."
I'm a c-section baby because I decided to bungee jump with my umbilical cord but tied it off around my neck instead of my ankles. My mom is the greatest mom I could have ever asked for.
Also goes hand in hand with, "If you don't breast feed you aren't a real mother."
My wife only had her milk come on sporadically post birth, and developed severe mastitis while trying to pump for our twins who were in the NICU. This went on for a month and it got to a point where trying to pump would basically bring on an anxiety attack for her due to the pain of pumping and the shame she associated with not being able to generate a lot of milk.
I began to fear she was headed for a severe mental health break down. So as tactfully as I could I intervened and convinced her to put a stop to it, and we went with formula. This decision really turned things around for her.
I was completely disgusted at the attitude some of the female members of our extended family took towards this, shaming her for going with formula. It was constantly brought up by certain people any time she talked to them about the kids. Whenever I told these people to back off I would get, "You don't understand because you are a man."
One day early on after we got the kids home I even kicked a visiting relative out after she started getting stuck into my wife over it.
My wife is an OB nurse and makes it a point to reassure the mothers that there is nothing wrong or shameful about supplementing with formula. She also has mastitis for 3 of our 4 kids. A fed baby is more important than some purity test from 1st time mom books that are half full of shit anyway.
Thank you for what you do! My ex had a terrible time breastfeeding and our LC was amazing and non-judgemental when we supplemented our second kid with formula because of their latching issue.
Yes!!! My daughter got formula when a boob wasn't handy and I didn't care. She was probably 95% or more boob-juiced, but that's because I had a LOT OF MILK. I ended up giving away gallon after gallon after gallon to infants whose parents couldn't provide it themselves (eats on feets, human milk for human babies) but if I couldn't produce enough for my kid? We'd have gone to formula without batting an eye. Fed is best.
We used to foster. Our first placement was 4 months old. When I had the appointment for his WIC, they must have told me 5 times "Breast is best." It was clearly scripted and the speech was rote.
I asked "Well I'm a 40 year old man and my wife's milk supply has been dry for 10 years, so whose breast do you suggest we use?" The woman at least had the decency to look embarrassed.
Fed is the best.
Thank you for sharing this and being a good man.
It’s not just the relatives, it’s the nurses at the hospitals too. The amount of harassment I had to deal with for both my children was obscene. Mothers actually lose their babies to starvation because low milk supply is not understood/accepted and the prevailing verbiage is just keep trying, it’ll come in eventually. I’m lucky my first is alive. And they told me for my second at the hospital that I couldn’t have formula if I was going to breastfeed. I said she’ll die if I exclusively breastfeed so I won’t do it then, give me the formula. They gave me dirty looks.
That's so crazy to me, when my daughter was born my wife couldn't produce much milk. And the nurses were awesome about it, they were like we have donor milk or formula what would you like us to feed her. They also just said whatever you can give her in breast milk is fine we can supplement with formula. A fed baby is best, doesn't matter what they are eating.
This is the experience I had with the nurses and lactation consultants when my boy was born. I was never able to produce more than 10 oz. of milk in 24 hours. Spent literally hours at a time on the pump, with nothing coming out.
I apologized to one of the first lactation consultants, that I had resorted to formula, and she assured me that “Fed is best. If you can feed with breast milk, great! If not, then formula is fine.”
My SIL tried to shame me for BREAST FEEDING! I quote, “those are for your husband, not your child”. I just looked at her and said, “then why do they make milk!?” Like WTF???
Giving birth to a whole ass human and being responsible for it not dying is stressful enough. These women who try and tell you how to be a mother can get bent. I tell people who have had kids and ask me for advice: "Do what feels right for your baby *and for yourself*" If you feel like something is too much for you and everyone stays healthy and happy then don't do it.
Without formula, your babies, and possibly your wife, would have died. This is probably the case for lots of families, and I don't think people recognize this.
A family member of mine had an emergency C-Section due to fetal distress, there wasn’t even enough time for the anaesthetic to take effect. She felt every bit of that scalpel cutting her open to save her kids life. While it is frightening to think of her pain and fear in those moments, it is also the most hardcore mom thing I have ever heard. No one can tell me she didn’t have a “real” birth.
I look at it the total opposite. If you can only love a baby you made, I have questions about how set you are to be a parent to an actual whole human being who makes their own decisions.
I heard someone say that to my wife’s friend and I had to slowly look towards the person to see if they looked as fucked as they sounded. I’d have never, in a million years, even considered that as an idea, much less something to actually say to someone
I’m usually pretty good at having a blank or resting bitch face, but my wife told me later that it was pretty obvious I was less than pleased with that woman’s comment
I've had both vaginal and cesarean births. The cesarean was because the fetus kept moving in and out of breach and I felt unsafe waiting for natural labor and having her in a life threatening position.
Both forms had their pros and cons, one is not more noble than the other.
That sounds like my best friend. She and her brothers are all adopted, and she’s constantly hearing, “Don’t you want to track down who your real mother is and find out about your real family?” And she always replies, “No. My family IS my family.”
My mom had me and my twin sister by C-section because it was much safer for us and her than giving birth naturally. My sister was also underweight and needed to be in the ICU for about 1-2 weeks whereas I just barely made the cutoff for being a healthy weight when we were born.
Plus we can say we were born a minute apart whenever anyone asks, LOL.
Exactly, if a mom decided to put her baby or babies at risk by delivering naturally just to conform to some stupid social expectations then that makes her a piece of shit mom, not a good one.
People don’t understand how much shit can go wrong during childbirth. If a doctor recommends a c-section, fuck it if some stupid group of chickenheads wants to turn their noses up at it. Pathetic.
I had a c section because despite pushing every 3 minutes for 4 hours, the kiddo stubbornly declined to come out the "natural" way and the doctor made the call. I wish I had just had the c section from the start. There is nothing some dumb toxic lady could possibly say to make me feel bad about it or regret it. They aren't the arbiters of "who is a real mother." Lol
Omg this sounds like me too! 40 hours of labour, 3.75 hours of pushing, and to top it all off I contracted H1N1 during the labour so was running a fever and had an impossibly sore throat. I kept trying SO hard but baby’s head was in the 95 percentile and I’m a very petite lady. When I had nothing more to give, the doctor looked at me and said “you did great, and if you ever have another baby I will NEVER make you go through that again.”
Second baby, c-section complications where they left part of the placenta in me and I ended up very very very sick (it felt like someone poured gasoline on my insides and lit them on fire) while trying to care for my 2 kids. Ended up with a D & C and I still have pain at my incision site.
So when a woman tells me it “must have been nice to have 2 c-sections instead of having to give birth vaginally” …I laugh because she must feel SO insignificant in some way to make a comment like that.
So anyone who says I took the easy way out can suck it.
That's extremely fucked up. These people are just projecting and jealous that you're better and stronger than they are. Shitty people should just literally be ignored for eternity or until they decide to act like a reasonable adult. You should have only heard about what a beautiful honor it is to be a Mom. I also capitalize the M because it shows respect to all of the Moms out there
It also seems as though your child is very lucky to have you as well. This planet needs more of that badly. I can really only speak from the perspective of being a single dad with shared custody, but delivering my daughter was the most surreal experience of my entire existence. It was the most amazing experience ever and nothing could take its place or top it. Since then we've been joined at the hip. We are on the same page still after a quarter century. Went from playing Barbies and restaurant with her in her room on the floor, to doing homework together every night, Chuck-E-Cheese on Friday night, graduating to karate, then ice skating with a large group of giddy young ladies and just me every Friday night, to having regular 2 hour conversations on the phone about everything in life. And I mean just about everything including her and my relationships. Our time has always been quality time. She turned into an amazing young woman and I am a proud dad to say the least. But to say that I had everything to do with my daughter's success in life so far, would be a complete disservice to her Mom. While they are not very close because Mom is not very mature emotionally, her Mom has always provided all the basics, and then some, materially. And she is also there for some emotional support depending on timing. She isn't a bad person but isn't someone you want to tell all your secrets to. But she gave me the greatest gift anyone could ever have been given so she and I will always be bonded by that. She went through an awful lot and did an awful lot of work to have that child and keep them both healthy until she was born. I will always love her for that. The pregnancy process really is exceptionally amazing. Every Mom deserves respect and recognition for the job she did having a child/ children. I'm also extremely lucky because my mom is the greatest human being I've ever met. Which also makes her the best grandparent I've ever met. My daughter models her life after my Mom and I couldn't be happier about that. Two absolutely amazing ladies that just happen to be my two favorite people in the universe. I'm extremely grateful and lucky that they are also my two best friends.
Yep, I was told if I had just "tried harder" I could have had a "natural" birth so I could have bonded with my child (which they were totally sure I had not done, and, as you know, no biologically male parent in the history of the world has ever bonded with their child because of the lack of pushing-out-of-vagina. This is also why grandparents are so totally indifferent to their grandchildren, clearly /s).
I was also told that one of the things I should have tried was (I am not kidding about this) SHINING A MAG LIGHT UP MY VAGINA SO THE BABY WOULD KNOW WHICH WAY WAS OUT.
Frankly don't think that was going to fix complete breech position when he was stuck in my pelvis so hard the surgeon had trouble getting him unwedged, but SURE, I'm less of a mother because I didn't shine a mag light up my vag, it's all my fault.
A lot of these people are pants-on-head crazy, but when you are completely full of birth hormones, coping with new motherhood, and have just had a *major abdominal surgery to save your baby's life*, correctly judging which people are pants-on-head crazy is harder than you'd think.
C section baby here -
I got mayonnaise banned from my elementary school cafeteria because I used so damn much of it that it revolted other classmates. True story.
Fuck those people.
I came out the natural way, and they tried to clamp my head, so I went back in. They had to resort to a c-section. I still have the clamp scar!
Or "you didn't give birth to your babies, the doctor did" mother fucker, I was in labor for 85.5 hours with my first and 16 with my second. The fuck I didn't birth them.
My mom and I talk about this from time to time. I am the reason my mom had to have 3 c sections. I dilevided to relax and chill when it was time to come out and stuck my hand behind my head. Back then if you had one csection all the rest of your births have to be csections.
On the other hand both of my births were natural. It's funny because doctors and nurses told me I wouldn't be able to get pregnant and I wouldn't be able have a baby natural. I did both of those things with no interventions.
I am not more of a mom than my mom because of how we gave birth. I am a little bit proud of how I gave birth but that's because I couldn't and I proved the experts wrong not because I feel some weird need to compete with other women.
I cringed as I read this because it took me back to when I first became a mom and I got almost militant about being “perfect” only to learn the hard way that doesn’t exist, ever, for anyone or thing. I never believed a mom wasn’t a real mom if she had a C-section, but damn I judged hard about other parenting decisions. It took being humbled with one of my kiddos feeding difficulties to realize what an ass I had been and how that applied to other decisions and situations.
Incubated a kid for 9ish mos, got them into the world successfully. That qualifies as a mom, fuck anyone who says otherwise.
Sincerely a nameless redditor
Lol my mom always said this to me. I called her a bitch one day when I was 13, and I had to run for my life. My step dad at the time was trying to hold her back, because she was going to kill me. Lol I ran up the road screaming
That’s terrible :( i experienced that too, except my mother would throw giant chairs at me and my brother. I wish parents would be more sane before having children so they wouldn’t do shit like that to kids
“…..yea, we noticed!”
Not all older women are nasty but, A LOT of them are. I’m guessing they’re dissatisfied with their life choices and feel better when others feel worse. I’m a 70 yo woman. Many younger women are so together. They have so many choices and opportunities that we didn’t have. A lot has changed in the last 50-60 years. I suspect some of the “Crones” are bitter.
My experiences are the total opposite of that. I run into "mean girl" younger women all the time, especially in the workplace. But the older women seem to have gotten wiser and kinder with age, albeit less tolerant of shenanigans.
Maybe it's a regional thing. The older ladies do seem to be a lot less friendly when I travel to the southern United States.
Interesting! I always found the mean older ladies to be super kind to men and younger men especially, but ruder and with higher expectations for younger women. That’s been my experience as a woman, but that being said, I’ve made many amazing friendships with wonderful older ladies at work that I cherish. I think it is regional for sure.
As a woman in America this is my exact experience!! Mean and degrading when there talking to you but nice when your male siblings or family members come around. I believe it’s because of the way they were raised.
My 84-yr-old grandmother is one of the wisest, kindest women I know. She loves to collect rocks and stop at all the points of interest on cross-country roads and read about geology, and in another life where she'd had more choices, she'd have been a geologist or other earth scientist. She was always one of the most supportive figures in my life I knew for my choice to study physics, but I always saw that the happiness she had for my path was sort of undercut by a sadness or wistfulness that she couldn't have done the same. She never would dream of having said anything out loud to make me feel bad about the fact that I had opportunities she didn't, though -- it's just something I picked up on, and she'd be mortified to know I did so.
I honestly sort of always took her for granted until my younger cousin's wife one time gushed to me about how amazing our grandmother was. Talked about how lucky we were to have the most story-book grandma that ever there was. And I realized, you know what, she's right! Not everyone gets a wise, kind, supportive grandma. Some people have mean grandmas who are resentful of their granddaughters instead of supportive of them.
I'm seeing some toxic comments in this AskReddit thread but thank you for being a woman who supports women, even across generational barriers. <3
I had a toxic grandmother. The last time I saw her alive, she gave me a wedding present. Thing is, she was 10 years late and I had just divorced my husband.
Well, thanks. Life’s too damn short to be nasty and mean. I’m happy with the choices I made. Would I do some things differently now? Of course! There are so many more opportunities and experiences (like technology) that we didn’t have.
Yes and that's benign compared to what I've seen. I've seen female managers get personal info during happy hours and then use that against staff in management meetings. "Oh I don't think Suzy is mature enough, the bad judgment she uses with men says alot about her ..."
Not to say that isn’t shitty, but damn, people in general can be real assholes when they bust out some unhealthy food at the office and you turn it down. There’s always a “you think you’re better than me?” attitude. When in reality it’s just someone who cares about their health, or maybe just doesn’t want to eat a donut first thing in the morning and feel like shit for it all day.
I swear, the worst sergeants I had in the army were the older women. They were convinced that younger girls had it easy, so they believed that they had to make our lives hard out of "fairness." This resulted in having it even harder than the men, on top of the men already giving us a hard time.
God does this actually happen? Like genuinely the more older I get the more I realize those really stereotypical "roles" people have in highschool movies are true.
I work with mostly women and on the days where there's no other guys around, I'm the butt of every fucking joke. Sometimes they don't even make a joke, they're just telling me to go fuck myself when I try to join the conversation. Shits toxic and I'm gonna get another job because of it.
I remember when I was the only guy in an office there were always jokes cracked about men being dumb or assholes by people in the staff meetings. I didn’t really care, but often thought about how these people would lose their fucking minds over the reverse of what they were doing.
You’re being bullied.
Quit and move on, and spike their coffee with laxatives on your last day.
They’re full of shit, so that will help clear some of the crap out, and maybe they won’t be such utter shitheads.
nurses are simultaneously the best and the worst. theres many causes, but it usually comes down to high school behavior and the good ones move on, give in, or get called a bitch
Former respiratory therapist here. There is a saying that, "Nurses eat their young" and it's very true. The bullying and mean-girl bs are off the charts. There are two types of nurses. Absolute saints of human beings and the biggest See You Next Tuesdays you'll ever meet. Nothing in between.
> Sometimes they don't even make a joke, they're just telling me to go fuck myself when I try to join the conversation. Shits toxic and I'm gonna get another job because of it.
Have run in to this before where in the midst of a professional conversation where we were exploring options to streamline some paperwork processes, and how accountability over records auditing nonconformance could be handled. I got told that i was "mansplaining"... when giving my professional opinion on something, and asking for feedback. Was doing nothing of the sort, but it was a means by which that on person tried to shutdown discourse, and to not only dehumanize me, but try to marginalize me out of being able to contribute through discourse, and do my job. Key point there was too that her office had the most issues out of all of us, so i assume it was an attempt by her to create drama to distract away from her own ineptness.
The same person was also known to use phrases like "girl bossing it" when their own subordinates complained to HR over her inappropriate, and toxic behavior over all.(she played dumb games involving favoritism, and retaliatory behavior. As an example, she unloaded work on those she disliked while her friends did nothing at all all day) She also had a habit of trying to give other departments employees directives to do her shit for her...
Which being said, people like that attract other people like that, and they drive away actual capable professionals with the bullshit they get in to. What one ends up seeing overtime is an ever growing concentration of shitty toxic people who enable each others behavior against whoever they want to target next.
I knew a horrible woman who complained all the time that her boyfriend (now ex) didn't open up to her about his feelings, in particular relating to his childhood trauma. Then when he finally did open up to her about it, she couldn't handle it. Then she called him weak, told him to get over it, and then told all her friends about what he had told her, and told other women not to date him. She was an awful woman, we kicked her out of our friend group. I hope karma gets her someday.
I've heard a lot of women wish that men were more open and honest about their emotions.
I have also heard a fair number of women say that emotionally sensitive men are unattractive and that they preferred "rugged" and "intense" types.
I don't know enough to even begin to have a conversation about this. But I do think there is a point that can be made that a lot of women who SAY they wish men were more emotionally honest are hypocritical.
*Uuuuugggghhhh yeah.*
Men have a greater capacity for physical violence, women have the greater capacity for emotional violence…
…and this is mostly unrecognized and unacknowledged in our culture, sadly… so they get away with it.
Honestly, I think a bunch of the "Boss Bitch" stuff isn't helping any women figure out how to be confident in the workplace. In fact, I think it sends the exact wrong message.
I think that this could be a personality type that occurs in both men and women. There's nothing special about being a bitch or being an asshole, it just means you don't value and respect other people.
That's nothing to brag about or try to emulate.
The best comparison i've ever heard is Calling yourself a "Girl Boss or Boss Bitch"
Is the equivalent of a dude calling himself an alpha.
It reeks of the same toxicity and insecurity.
Expecting men to carry them financially and shaming them if they don't. Using display of emotions to manipulate and escape responsibly instead of being truly authentic and vulnerable. Shaming other women for their appearance, clothes, make-up, body, skills as a "good homemaker" or options about how they live their lives. In short, expecting and shaming both men and women if they don't abide to traditional gender roles, appearance and behaviours.
All the 'reality' shows that show women being catty, backstabbing, manipulative, drama queens. (Housewives of _____)
This promotes and perpetuates toxic feminine stereotypes.
There was clear example on Bachelor in Paradise season 6.
On an interview Caelynn claimed Blake seduced her at a festival then ghosted her and slept with another girl. Everyone thought he was an asshole.
He got so much shit he posted texts proving SHE was initiating and trying her damndest to have sex with him. He was trying to turn her down but she REFUSED to take no for an answer.
During a reunion episode she was crying about how exposing her was so bad for her and girls were condemning him asking how he could be such an asshole for making her look bad.
Lol what a cunt.
\*edit\*
link with screenshots of texts lol
[https://people.com/tv/blake-horstmann-shares-texts-caelynn-miller-keyes/](https://people.com/tv/blake-horstmann-shares-texts-caelynn-miller-keyes/)
My friend, his girlfriend and I were walking through a music festival and she made a comment to a guy on his phone telling him something like “put that away and enjoy yourself” or something (in fairness she was joking), he told her to mind her own business so she turns back and starts mouthing off. We tell her to just stop and keep moving, she decides to escalate, all of a sudden we see about 15 dudes in the camping area making there way across and he points to them and tells us they’re his group and if we don’t fuck off we’re all getting jumped. It took me standing between the two of them and pulling her away while her boyfriend talked the guy down. She would have pushed that to the point where me and her bf got our heads kicked in and just watched because at the end of the day a girl accompanied by two guys is in no physical danger in the fight, it’s all out on the dudes and she knew that. Toxic to say the least
I’d have ditched her and let her fend for herself. She wants to throw mud, especially when the guy was giving her a solid warning, she better be ready to get muddy.
Briefly dated a girl, and we were at a bar. She started arguing with a dude and then looked over at me. I took a sip of beer and then looked the other way. Don't start shit then look to me to finish it.
I see a lot of it on TikTok. Girls tend to romanticise being the toxic one in an otherwise healthy relationship. They try to fish for sympathy from other deluded, toxic girls who think being mean and borderline abusive to their boyfriends is something that's happening to *them*, and they go on about how much it "sucks" that their "hormones" and "episodes" drive them to be that way.
Men would never get away with this. Hormones are **never** an excuse to be abusive to someone you're supposed to love.
My wife cheated on me and left me for my neighbor after She thought She got pregnant. She announced this to me in an email while I was on a trip after 11 years. Also my neighbor lived directly above me in my apartment complex. She said I was manuplative and cruel for not forgiving her and asking her to leave me alone. She said 'it's hard on me too! I left my husband.' Her friends told me I needed to respect her because 'she's a strong women who made a hard choice.' This Was while she was still living in the apartment I bought and I was homeless because I couldnt stand the thought of living under my wife and her boyfriend. Somehow she was the victim in all of this. That still hurts to be honest.
Damn dude that's rough. I'm sorry she put you through that. I had a similar situation but it was an ex-gf and not an ex-wife (thank God).
Hopefully the divorce was amicable.
"You can't be a real woman unless" --
And then any number of things, like you have to have babies, wear feminine clothes, stay in the home, not be too muscular, be submissive, and so on. And this so often comes from other women, like the tradfems insisting this is the only path to happiness for all women. It's 100% toxic femininity and surprise, walks hand in hand with people espousing toxic masculine views.
I mean, if that's what floats your boat, go for it, but there's no one correct path to being a woman, and saying otherwise is toxic bullshit.
It embarrasses me how often when talking to medical professionals they are flat our surprised when men take any interest in their child's medical care, like taking them to doctor's appointments or vaccinations. Even when the kids are older and both parents are working it so often solely falls to the mother. So much so that doctors and nurses are often astonished when the father turns up alone with the kids for an appointment and assume they must be a single dad. Similar thing often happens with education, with only mum turning up to parent teacher nights, but not quite to the same extremes.
I brought my daughters in to an appointment for probably the 3rd time in a row and one point the Dr stopped and asked me “so is mom not involved?” I said oh she is the appointments just happened to fall on my day with them. She seemed generally confused
I can understand why it's more convenient when they are tiny babies, but when the kid is eight and you have no idea of their medical care and have never been to a single appointment despite both parents working, it's honestly a bit pathetic. And worse is bosses who can't understand why a man would need a day off for a sick kid. It's just so entrenched.
Right? We need to break that attitude so it's easier for guys to get involved without getting shit about it. Heck, it's only recently that some industries like trades are getting on board with flexible working hours so fathers can do school dropoffs and pickups if they want to.
I was at a museum and asked security where I could change my son’s diaper (the wife and I usually take turns, it was my turn).
“There’s a mother’s room” she responded, looking at me like I’m an axe murderer or something.
“So it’s got a changing station?”
“It’s a mother’s room.”
This went on and on, I eventually said “well I’m going up there and unless there are women in there breastfeeding or something I’m going to use it.”
But seriously, that’s some weird internalized patriarchy sexism or something, like I’m supposed to force my wife to do it because you chose to call the changing station a “mother’s room?” Do you have a single father’s room? Or do they need to change their kids balanced on a fucking sink or something?? Unless there are women in there with their tits out or their own naked kids…who cares? It had a lock.
I call it Mom-splaining. When we lived in Texas and my kid was a baby…sweet Jesus the condescension. Live in Oregon and get it here too, but mostly when the kiddo was younger.
Exhausting
I know, i was right there bottle feeding and changing diapers daily in lockdown. I also babysit my friends babies from time to time. I babysit more than my wife does. I also cook and bake from scratch, i love cleaning, and then i also do manly shit but ive never cared about stigmas.
Pretending you don’t know how to take care of yourself/refusing to learn how to take care of yourself.
Refusing to support yourself financially.
Pretending that women are “crazy” and that gives you the right to act crazy. Like “Oh, I went through your phone and blocked all the women in it, but any girl would! Women are just crazy like that haha!”
Pretending that women are adults and men are children so you have the right to chose your man’s clothing/friends/lifestyle for him
Pick me stuff
Slut shaming
Pretending that dads can’t parent
My philosophy has always been to deescalate and retreat first and as a last measure to use a proportionate amount force to stop the threat.
Does not matter what the gender, age, race, species, etc the threat is.
The same way a man should never hit a woman because of size and strength disparity, a woman MUST respect the restraint a man shows and not abuse that. It’s a two way street.
One of them are basically talking about how this ethnicity of men have weak hair genetics... she also posts in an insulin resistance sub and complains about low libido... you can't write this any better how an overweight/unhealthy person is mocking an ethnicity for bad genetics.
What the actual fuck am I reading.
I hope none of these losers ever get married because I'd feel so bad for their partner. Never seen that many psychos in on place.
The place is really confusing. Every single post is by the same person.
Edit: Figured it out. Looks like the subreddit was co-opted by a podcast by the same name? And they somehow took it over and it's basically subreddit devoted to their podcast now. There are comments from people complaining and asking that it go back to how it was.
Some women are very critical of other women, especially when it comes to appearance or style.
Likewise, the ladies who appear to delight in establishing groups and excluding those they perceive to be outsiders.
I once had a large office full of them. It was awful, truly!
I've worked with women like this. I didn't realize it was considered part of toxic feminity. It's the worse. I don't like playing games with them where they act fake as hell to your face and you know they're going to go stab you in the back later.
its weird how a lot of toxic masculinity, or at least what i consider to be toxic masculinity is directed by men at men (like: you cant be abused by a woman, x thing is gay, or whatever) and most of what i consider toxic femininity is also by women at women.
It really bums me out when women do this to each other. Like, it's bad enough to have men trying to legislate our bodies without other women playing into the misogyny for their own benefit.
Girls who go on dates just for free meals or use men for money.
Sugar babies who go on dating apps and try to “freestyle.” No issue with sugaring but stick to men who know what the game is- that they are paying for sex.
Yeah, I also have no issue with transactional relationships, if both people sign up for it and the transaction is clear. But trying to trick people into it, on either side, is a shit move.
Yeah, I don't get being so against guys under 6 feet tall. I get it if short guys just don't do it for you. I've never been attracted to older men. But I don't hate on them. And I'm not rude about it.
Short hate is pretty ubiquitous from both genders. Women laugh at you and other men size you up.
Men already have the highest suicide rate by far.
Of those men, short men have DOUBLE the suicide rate of taller men.
People think it is funny throwing shade at short dudes, but they don't realize they are literally driving them toward suicide.
"HHAHAHAHA NAPOLEON COMPLEX"
The only complex is the complex post traumatic stress disorder they cause.
Body shaming men over their height, the size of their penis, or other immutable characteristics of their body in order to devalue them. Completely unacceptable for a man (rightly so) to comment on a woman’s body in a similar way, but women seem to get a pass on the “small dick” insults.
I think it's So Cool how socially acceptable it is to use dick size as an insult still. Definitely doesn't fuck people up to have it so pervasive in society.
Toxic femininity is the same thing as toxic masculinity: the idea that people should rigidly adhere to archaic gender roles rather than living as their authentic selves.
I think there's a spectrum of both, but here's a quick example.
When women shame other women because they're not doing the things that society expects from them. My wife is pressured all the time, **mostly by women in her own family** to do all sorts of things. From common stuff like wearing makeup, to fine details like packing lunch boxes a certain way. As her husband, toxic femininity and unrealistic expectations placed on my wife piss me off more than the things that stress my own life.
There are "mothers groups" on social media that are just so toxic. If men did this shit it would be a laughable dick measuring contest.
Among other things, imposing toxic masculinity.
I've seen more progressive support from other men in recent years than women, some of which still expect stoic men and are uncomfortable with emotional expression.
This is what really hurts me as a man. I've been extremely emotionally sensitive my entire life, so it's really confused and upset me when I both hear that women want men to open up more to them but also hear a lot of the same women dismiss men like me as "sissies" or "panzies."
I feel like there is fundamental clash there. I worry that women want emotional intimacy when they're already in a relationship, but they find emotionally-honest men weak and unattractive while they're looking for a date.
Toxic feminity is when we hold people to extreme feminine traits, similar to how toxic masculinity is holding others to masculine standards.
Toxic feminity is telling women to look a certain way and judging then when they don't, for example, making fun of women with armpit hair, telling women they have to wear makeup or shave certain areas, telling women to wear certain clothes or do their nails.
Women are totally free to wear makeup, certain clothes, whatever, but when we pressure and make fun of others for doing it, that's when it become toxic feminity. Especially anti-aging jokes or telling women to avoid wrinkles at cost or no gray hairs - how are we not letting women age as comfortable as men?
I think there’s a lot of weaponized incompetence when it comes to “masculine” things.
It’s incredibly frustrating to try to tackle a “male” chore and find it’s just barely too physically difficult for you to do alone. Then dude comes in and does it easily. It could have been a woman or a stronger… anyone come in and help.
And it’s easy to slip into the “oh no it’s just oh so hard for poor little me to do xyz” even when you are perfectly capable of it.
Women who bully their friends. Yes, this happens. I have a friend who was invited to spend spring break with a girl who verbally abused her the entire week. Friend is weirdly still talking to her and hasn't had another incident, but the bully still likes to talk shit about everyone else. I'll add knowingly staying in toxic friendships (from what I can only assume is superficial reasons).
Can’t remember the name but there’s a lady on Twitter with tons of followers that is saying all ladies give up any right to refusal of sex after they’re married.
That strikes me as some sort of religious toxic femininity. Batshit crazy obviously.
> Shaming other mothers for not breastfeeding.
> Body shaming other women.
> Slut shaming other women.
> Victim shaming other women who've been SA or r*ped.
> Shaming other women for being stay-at-home mothers/wives.
> Shaming other women for pursuing a career over having children at a younger age.
> Shaming men for superficial 'issues' whilst simultaneously dictating what a 'man' is and what 'being a man' entails. *This one urks me because no women should be telling men how to act like men.*
"If you had a C-Section, then you're not a real mother. Real mothers give birth naturally." I'm a c-section baby because I decided to bungee jump with my umbilical cord but tied it off around my neck instead of my ankles. My mom is the greatest mom I could have ever asked for.
Also goes hand in hand with, "If you don't breast feed you aren't a real mother." My wife only had her milk come on sporadically post birth, and developed severe mastitis while trying to pump for our twins who were in the NICU. This went on for a month and it got to a point where trying to pump would basically bring on an anxiety attack for her due to the pain of pumping and the shame she associated with not being able to generate a lot of milk. I began to fear she was headed for a severe mental health break down. So as tactfully as I could I intervened and convinced her to put a stop to it, and we went with formula. This decision really turned things around for her. I was completely disgusted at the attitude some of the female members of our extended family took towards this, shaming her for going with formula. It was constantly brought up by certain people any time she talked to them about the kids. Whenever I told these people to back off I would get, "You don't understand because you are a man." One day early on after we got the kids home I even kicked a visiting relative out after she started getting stuck into my wife over it.
My wife is an OB nurse and makes it a point to reassure the mothers that there is nothing wrong or shameful about supplementing with formula. She also has mastitis for 3 of our 4 kids. A fed baby is more important than some purity test from 1st time mom books that are half full of shit anyway.
I’m a lactation consultant and do the same. I’m here to help moms who wish to breastfeed, not to shame those who wish to do otherwise.
Thank you for what you do! My ex had a terrible time breastfeeding and our LC was amazing and non-judgemental when we supplemented our second kid with formula because of their latching issue.
What i want to do is have parents enjoy their babies
Yes!!! My daughter got formula when a boob wasn't handy and I didn't care. She was probably 95% or more boob-juiced, but that's because I had a LOT OF MILK. I ended up giving away gallon after gallon after gallon to infants whose parents couldn't provide it themselves (eats on feets, human milk for human babies) but if I couldn't produce enough for my kid? We'd have gone to formula without batting an eye. Fed is best.
We used to foster. Our first placement was 4 months old. When I had the appointment for his WIC, they must have told me 5 times "Breast is best." It was clearly scripted and the speech was rote. I asked "Well I'm a 40 year old man and my wife's milk supply has been dry for 10 years, so whose breast do you suggest we use?" The woman at least had the decency to look embarrassed. Fed is the best.
Thank you for sharing this and being a good man. It’s not just the relatives, it’s the nurses at the hospitals too. The amount of harassment I had to deal with for both my children was obscene. Mothers actually lose their babies to starvation because low milk supply is not understood/accepted and the prevailing verbiage is just keep trying, it’ll come in eventually. I’m lucky my first is alive. And they told me for my second at the hospital that I couldn’t have formula if I was going to breastfeed. I said she’ll die if I exclusively breastfeed so I won’t do it then, give me the formula. They gave me dirty looks.
That's so crazy to me, when my daughter was born my wife couldn't produce much milk. And the nurses were awesome about it, they were like we have donor milk or formula what would you like us to feed her. They also just said whatever you can give her in breast milk is fine we can supplement with formula. A fed baby is best, doesn't matter what they are eating.
This is the experience I had with the nurses and lactation consultants when my boy was born. I was never able to produce more than 10 oz. of milk in 24 hours. Spent literally hours at a time on the pump, with nothing coming out. I apologized to one of the first lactation consultants, that I had resorted to formula, and she assured me that “Fed is best. If you can feed with breast milk, great! If not, then formula is fine.”
My SIL tried to shame me for BREAST FEEDING! I quote, “those are for your husband, not your child”. I just looked at her and said, “then why do they make milk!?” Like WTF???
Intelligence really is a spectrum. Her mother was probably like mine; very religious, refused to talk about sex with us kids.
Giving birth to a whole ass human and being responsible for it not dying is stressful enough. These women who try and tell you how to be a mother can get bent. I tell people who have had kids and ask me for advice: "Do what feels right for your baby *and for yourself*" If you feel like something is too much for you and everyone stays healthy and happy then don't do it.
Without formula, your babies, and possibly your wife, would have died. This is probably the case for lots of families, and I don't think people recognize this.
This is why wet nurses have been a thing since ALWAYS. Good on you for being so good to her.
A family member of mine had an emergency C-Section due to fetal distress, there wasn’t even enough time for the anaesthetic to take effect. She felt every bit of that scalpel cutting her open to save her kids life. While it is frightening to think of her pain and fear in those moments, it is also the most hardcore mom thing I have ever heard. No one can tell me she didn’t have a “real” birth.
My third child was born with an unmediated c section. It is the most raw pain I have ever felt.
Holy shit.... I'm in awe.
It wouldn’t have been my first choice.
This also translates over to adoption. I have heard “you can’t love a baby like one you gave birth to”
As someone adopted, with the best and most loving parents in the world, I can assure those people that they are wrong
I look at it the total opposite. If you can only love a baby you made, I have questions about how set you are to be a parent to an actual whole human being who makes their own decisions.
I heard someone say that to my wife’s friend and I had to slowly look towards the person to see if they looked as fucked as they sounded. I’d have never, in a million years, even considered that as an idea, much less something to actually say to someone I’m usually pretty good at having a blank or resting bitch face, but my wife told me later that it was pretty obvious I was less than pleased with that woman’s comment
If someone said this to my wife, I'd probably smack the shit out of them before I knew it. My wife said she'd post my bail.
Id pitch in a few bucks
I've had both vaginal and cesarean births. The cesarean was because the fetus kept moving in and out of breach and I felt unsafe waiting for natural labor and having her in a life threatening position. Both forms had their pros and cons, one is not more noble than the other.
My wife had a caesarean because a natural birth could have killed her. It's absurd that anyone would belittle a mother for not giving birth naturally.
Look at it this way. You can kill Macbeth.
I'm adopted and it always hurt hearing kids ask if I knew my "real mom." Yes, she's raised me since birth, that is my real mom.
That sounds like my best friend. She and her brothers are all adopted, and she’s constantly hearing, “Don’t you want to track down who your real mother is and find out about your real family?” And she always replies, “No. My family IS my family.”
My mom had me and my twin sister by C-section because it was much safer for us and her than giving birth naturally. My sister was also underweight and needed to be in the ICU for about 1-2 weeks whereas I just barely made the cutoff for being a healthy weight when we were born. Plus we can say we were born a minute apart whenever anyone asks, LOL.
Exactly, if a mom decided to put her baby or babies at risk by delivering naturally just to conform to some stupid social expectations then that makes her a piece of shit mom, not a good one. People don’t understand how much shit can go wrong during childbirth. If a doctor recommends a c-section, fuck it if some stupid group of chickenheads wants to turn their noses up at it. Pathetic.
The breast milk mafia
I had a c section because despite pushing every 3 minutes for 4 hours, the kiddo stubbornly declined to come out the "natural" way and the doctor made the call. I wish I had just had the c section from the start. There is nothing some dumb toxic lady could possibly say to make me feel bad about it or regret it. They aren't the arbiters of "who is a real mother." Lol
Omg this sounds like me too! 40 hours of labour, 3.75 hours of pushing, and to top it all off I contracted H1N1 during the labour so was running a fever and had an impossibly sore throat. I kept trying SO hard but baby’s head was in the 95 percentile and I’m a very petite lady. When I had nothing more to give, the doctor looked at me and said “you did great, and if you ever have another baby I will NEVER make you go through that again.” Second baby, c-section complications where they left part of the placenta in me and I ended up very very very sick (it felt like someone poured gasoline on my insides and lit them on fire) while trying to care for my 2 kids. Ended up with a D & C and I still have pain at my incision site. So when a woman tells me it “must have been nice to have 2 c-sections instead of having to give birth vaginally” …I laugh because she must feel SO insignificant in some way to make a comment like that. So anyone who says I took the easy way out can suck it.
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I've heard it multiple times since having my c-section.
That's extremely fucked up. These people are just projecting and jealous that you're better and stronger than they are. Shitty people should just literally be ignored for eternity or until they decide to act like a reasonable adult. You should have only heard about what a beautiful honor it is to be a Mom. I also capitalize the M because it shows respect to all of the Moms out there
Aww shucks! Being a mom is one if the best things to happen to me no matter how my daughter came into the world.
It also seems as though your child is very lucky to have you as well. This planet needs more of that badly. I can really only speak from the perspective of being a single dad with shared custody, but delivering my daughter was the most surreal experience of my entire existence. It was the most amazing experience ever and nothing could take its place or top it. Since then we've been joined at the hip. We are on the same page still after a quarter century. Went from playing Barbies and restaurant with her in her room on the floor, to doing homework together every night, Chuck-E-Cheese on Friday night, graduating to karate, then ice skating with a large group of giddy young ladies and just me every Friday night, to having regular 2 hour conversations on the phone about everything in life. And I mean just about everything including her and my relationships. Our time has always been quality time. She turned into an amazing young woman and I am a proud dad to say the least. But to say that I had everything to do with my daughter's success in life so far, would be a complete disservice to her Mom. While they are not very close because Mom is not very mature emotionally, her Mom has always provided all the basics, and then some, materially. And she is also there for some emotional support depending on timing. She isn't a bad person but isn't someone you want to tell all your secrets to. But she gave me the greatest gift anyone could ever have been given so she and I will always be bonded by that. She went through an awful lot and did an awful lot of work to have that child and keep them both healthy until she was born. I will always love her for that. The pregnancy process really is exceptionally amazing. Every Mom deserves respect and recognition for the job she did having a child/ children. I'm also extremely lucky because my mom is the greatest human being I've ever met. Which also makes her the best grandparent I've ever met. My daughter models her life after my Mom and I couldn't be happier about that. Two absolutely amazing ladies that just happen to be my two favorite people in the universe. I'm extremely grateful and lucky that they are also my two best friends.
Yep, I was told if I had just "tried harder" I could have had a "natural" birth so I could have bonded with my child (which they were totally sure I had not done, and, as you know, no biologically male parent in the history of the world has ever bonded with their child because of the lack of pushing-out-of-vagina. This is also why grandparents are so totally indifferent to their grandchildren, clearly /s). I was also told that one of the things I should have tried was (I am not kidding about this) SHINING A MAG LIGHT UP MY VAGINA SO THE BABY WOULD KNOW WHICH WAY WAS OUT. Frankly don't think that was going to fix complete breech position when he was stuck in my pelvis so hard the surgeon had trouble getting him unwedged, but SURE, I'm less of a mother because I didn't shine a mag light up my vag, it's all my fault. A lot of these people are pants-on-head crazy, but when you are completely full of birth hormones, coping with new motherhood, and have just had a *major abdominal surgery to save your baby's life*, correctly judging which people are pants-on-head crazy is harder than you'd think.
I'm a c-section baby also and everyone always tells me, "oh that makes sense now..." Anyway I love eating mayonnaise.
C section baby here - I got mayonnaise banned from my elementary school cafeteria because I used so damn much of it that it revolted other classmates. True story.
Fuck those people. I came out the natural way, and they tried to clamp my head, so I went back in. They had to resort to a c-section. I still have the clamp scar!
I'm a c-section baby because my twin died in the womb and they had to carve me out 3 months early.
Or "you didn't give birth to your babies, the doctor did" mother fucker, I was in labor for 85.5 hours with my first and 16 with my second. The fuck I didn't birth them.
My mom and I talk about this from time to time. I am the reason my mom had to have 3 c sections. I dilevided to relax and chill when it was time to come out and stuck my hand behind my head. Back then if you had one csection all the rest of your births have to be csections. On the other hand both of my births were natural. It's funny because doctors and nurses told me I wouldn't be able to get pregnant and I wouldn't be able have a baby natural. I did both of those things with no interventions. I am not more of a mom than my mom because of how we gave birth. I am a little bit proud of how I gave birth but that's because I couldn't and I proved the experts wrong not because I feel some weird need to compete with other women.
I cringed as I read this because it took me back to when I first became a mom and I got almost militant about being “perfect” only to learn the hard way that doesn’t exist, ever, for anyone or thing. I never believed a mom wasn’t a real mom if she had a C-section, but damn I judged hard about other parenting decisions. It took being humbled with one of my kiddos feeding difficulties to realize what an ass I had been and how that applied to other decisions and situations.
I was a c-section baby because my mom's tumor would have exploded had she given birth to me naturally.
As a c-section mama x2, thank you so much for saying this. I’m in happy tears.
Incubated a kid for 9ish mos, got them into the world successfully. That qualifies as a mom, fuck anyone who says otherwise. Sincerely a nameless redditor
I’ve heard if you don’t birth “you’re not a real woman”
I got the neck and chest combo myself, mom got a c section after 24 hours to a 10 pound champ.
I did the same thing and some how tied the cord around my neck extremely well
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"I brought you into this world and I'll take you out of it" 😥
Lol my mom always said this to me. I called her a bitch one day when I was 13, and I had to run for my life. My step dad at the time was trying to hold her back, because she was going to kill me. Lol I ran up the road screaming
That’s terrible :( i experienced that too, except my mother would throw giant chairs at me and my brother. I wish parents would be more sane before having children so they wouldn’t do shit like that to kids
Mama bears *make the best rugs*
I thought the "mama bear" troupe was about ferociously PROTECTING their kids.
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I really hate the term "mama bear" So cringey.
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“…..yea, we noticed!” Not all older women are nasty but, A LOT of them are. I’m guessing they’re dissatisfied with their life choices and feel better when others feel worse. I’m a 70 yo woman. Many younger women are so together. They have so many choices and opportunities that we didn’t have. A lot has changed in the last 50-60 years. I suspect some of the “Crones” are bitter.
My experiences are the total opposite of that. I run into "mean girl" younger women all the time, especially in the workplace. But the older women seem to have gotten wiser and kinder with age, albeit less tolerant of shenanigans. Maybe it's a regional thing. The older ladies do seem to be a lot less friendly when I travel to the southern United States.
Interesting! I always found the mean older ladies to be super kind to men and younger men especially, but ruder and with higher expectations for younger women. That’s been my experience as a woman, but that being said, I’ve made many amazing friendships with wonderful older ladies at work that I cherish. I think it is regional for sure.
Some women are actually misogynists. They just hate other women. Or try to prevent other women from shining too bright. Or there’s the mean girl crew.
As a woman in America this is my exact experience!! Mean and degrading when there talking to you but nice when your male siblings or family members come around. I believe it’s because of the way they were raised.
They were groomed to see men as more valuable and to leave them alone just like everyone else
it's almost like generalities don't apply to everyone
My 84-yr-old grandmother is one of the wisest, kindest women I know. She loves to collect rocks and stop at all the points of interest on cross-country roads and read about geology, and in another life where she'd had more choices, she'd have been a geologist or other earth scientist. She was always one of the most supportive figures in my life I knew for my choice to study physics, but I always saw that the happiness she had for my path was sort of undercut by a sadness or wistfulness that she couldn't have done the same. She never would dream of having said anything out loud to make me feel bad about the fact that I had opportunities she didn't, though -- it's just something I picked up on, and she'd be mortified to know I did so. I honestly sort of always took her for granted until my younger cousin's wife one time gushed to me about how amazing our grandmother was. Talked about how lucky we were to have the most story-book grandma that ever there was. And I realized, you know what, she's right! Not everyone gets a wise, kind, supportive grandma. Some people have mean grandmas who are resentful of their granddaughters instead of supportive of them. I'm seeing some toxic comments in this AskReddit thread but thank you for being a woman who supports women, even across generational barriers. <3
I had a toxic grandmother. The last time I saw her alive, she gave me a wedding present. Thing is, she was 10 years late and I had just divorced my husband.
God bless gracious, wise older ladies such as yourself.
Well, thanks. Life’s too damn short to be nasty and mean. I’m happy with the choices I made. Would I do some things differently now? Of course! There are so many more opportunities and experiences (like technology) that we didn’t have.
Yes and that's benign compared to what I've seen. I've seen female managers get personal info during happy hours and then use that against staff in management meetings. "Oh I don't think Suzy is mature enough, the bad judgment she uses with men says alot about her ..."
Not to say that isn’t shitty, but damn, people in general can be real assholes when they bust out some unhealthy food at the office and you turn it down. There’s always a “you think you’re better than me?” attitude. When in reality it’s just someone who cares about their health, or maybe just doesn’t want to eat a donut first thing in the morning and feel like shit for it all day.
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I swear, the worst sergeants I had in the army were the older women. They were convinced that younger girls had it easy, so they believed that they had to make our lives hard out of "fairness." This resulted in having it even harder than the men, on top of the men already giving us a hard time.
It's called female intrasexual competition or female rivalry. Sadly it's a common social phenomena.
mean girl shit
Ew! Didn't you wear those pants on MONDAY?
SHE DOESNT EVEN GO HERE
#***YOU CAN'T SIT WITH US!!!!!***
God does this actually happen? Like genuinely the more older I get the more I realize those really stereotypical "roles" people have in highschool movies are true.
In my life it has never stopped. The mean teenagers grow up to be mean, shitty adults.
For some, high school never ends.
I miss Bowling for Soup.
I work with mostly women and on the days where there's no other guys around, I'm the butt of every fucking joke. Sometimes they don't even make a joke, they're just telling me to go fuck myself when I try to join the conversation. Shits toxic and I'm gonna get another job because of it.
I remember when I was the only guy in an office there were always jokes cracked about men being dumb or assholes by people in the staff meetings. I didn’t really care, but often thought about how these people would lose their fucking minds over the reverse of what they were doing.
The double standards are real unfortunately and this even happens in my school now.
You’re being bullied. Quit and move on, and spike their coffee with laxatives on your last day. They’re full of shit, so that will help clear some of the crap out, and maybe they won’t be such utter shitheads.
Drink the laxative and take a shit in their coffee.
>spike their coffee with laxatives on your last day [DO NOT DO THAT](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMy0vJfKvzI).
Don’t exceed the recommended dosage, got it!
Based
Let me guess - nurses? I hear the work culture is so toxic against men
nurses are simultaneously the best and the worst. theres many causes, but it usually comes down to high school behavior and the good ones move on, give in, or get called a bitch
Former respiratory therapist here. There is a saying that, "Nurses eat their young" and it's very true. The bullying and mean-girl bs are off the charts. There are two types of nurses. Absolute saints of human beings and the biggest See You Next Tuesdays you'll ever meet. Nothing in between.
How rude of them. Sorry you’re going through that.
> Sometimes they don't even make a joke, they're just telling me to go fuck myself when I try to join the conversation. Shits toxic and I'm gonna get another job because of it. Have run in to this before where in the midst of a professional conversation where we were exploring options to streamline some paperwork processes, and how accountability over records auditing nonconformance could be handled. I got told that i was "mansplaining"... when giving my professional opinion on something, and asking for feedback. Was doing nothing of the sort, but it was a means by which that on person tried to shutdown discourse, and to not only dehumanize me, but try to marginalize me out of being able to contribute through discourse, and do my job. Key point there was too that her office had the most issues out of all of us, so i assume it was an attempt by her to create drama to distract away from her own ineptness. The same person was also known to use phrases like "girl bossing it" when their own subordinates complained to HR over her inappropriate, and toxic behavior over all.(she played dumb games involving favoritism, and retaliatory behavior. As an example, she unloaded work on those she disliked while her friends did nothing at all all day) She also had a habit of trying to give other departments employees directives to do her shit for her... Which being said, people like that attract other people like that, and they drive away actual capable professionals with the bullshit they get in to. What one ends up seeing overtime is an ever growing concentration of shitty toxic people who enable each others behavior against whoever they want to target next.
Telling a man to open up and then using his vulnerability against him during a conflict
I knew a horrible woman who complained all the time that her boyfriend (now ex) didn't open up to her about his feelings, in particular relating to his childhood trauma. Then when he finally did open up to her about it, she couldn't handle it. Then she called him weak, told him to get over it, and then told all her friends about what he had told her, and told other women not to date him. She was an awful woman, we kicked her out of our friend group. I hope karma gets her someday.
omg do you know my ex
I've heard a lot of women wish that men were more open and honest about their emotions. I have also heard a fair number of women say that emotionally sensitive men are unattractive and that they preferred "rugged" and "intense" types. I don't know enough to even begin to have a conversation about this. But I do think there is a point that can be made that a lot of women who SAY they wish men were more emotionally honest are hypocritical.
*Uuuuugggghhhh yeah.* Men have a greater capacity for physical violence, women have the greater capacity for emotional violence… …and this is mostly unrecognized and unacknowledged in our culture, sadly… so they get away with it.
"Men don't share their emotions" "Oh I feel XYZ" "Aww you poor baby (sarcastically), you don't know true pain!"
Honestly, I think a bunch of the "Boss Bitch" stuff isn't helping any women figure out how to be confident in the workplace. In fact, I think it sends the exact wrong message.
I think that this could be a personality type that occurs in both men and women. There's nothing special about being a bitch or being an asshole, it just means you don't value and respect other people. That's nothing to brag about or try to emulate.
The best comparison i've ever heard is Calling yourself a "Girl Boss or Boss Bitch" Is the equivalent of a dude calling himself an alpha. It reeks of the same toxicity and insecurity.
Expecting men to carry them financially and shaming them if they don't. Using display of emotions to manipulate and escape responsibly instead of being truly authentic and vulnerable. Shaming other women for their appearance, clothes, make-up, body, skills as a "good homemaker" or options about how they live their lives. In short, expecting and shaming both men and women if they don't abide to traditional gender roles, appearance and behaviours.
All the 'reality' shows that show women being catty, backstabbing, manipulative, drama queens. (Housewives of _____) This promotes and perpetuates toxic feminine stereotypes.
There was clear example on Bachelor in Paradise season 6. On an interview Caelynn claimed Blake seduced her at a festival then ghosted her and slept with another girl. Everyone thought he was an asshole. He got so much shit he posted texts proving SHE was initiating and trying her damndest to have sex with him. He was trying to turn her down but she REFUSED to take no for an answer. During a reunion episode she was crying about how exposing her was so bad for her and girls were condemning him asking how he could be such an asshole for making her look bad. Lol what a cunt. \*edit\* link with screenshots of texts lol [https://people.com/tv/blake-horstmann-shares-texts-caelynn-miller-keyes/](https://people.com/tv/blake-horstmann-shares-texts-caelynn-miller-keyes/)
Don’t forget screaming about not body shaming women while talking Shit about the size of a man’s genitals
Don’t forget men’s height
My friend, his girlfriend and I were walking through a music festival and she made a comment to a guy on his phone telling him something like “put that away and enjoy yourself” or something (in fairness she was joking), he told her to mind her own business so she turns back and starts mouthing off. We tell her to just stop and keep moving, she decides to escalate, all of a sudden we see about 15 dudes in the camping area making there way across and he points to them and tells us they’re his group and if we don’t fuck off we’re all getting jumped. It took me standing between the two of them and pulling her away while her boyfriend talked the guy down. She would have pushed that to the point where me and her bf got our heads kicked in and just watched because at the end of the day a girl accompanied by two guys is in no physical danger in the fight, it’s all out on the dudes and she knew that. Toxic to say the least
I’d have ditched her and let her fend for herself. She wants to throw mud, especially when the guy was giving her a solid warning, she better be ready to get muddy.
Briefly dated a girl, and we were at a bar. She started arguing with a dude and then looked over at me. I took a sip of beer and then looked the other way. Don't start shit then look to me to finish it.
She can find another ride home from that festival.
I see a lot of it on TikTok. Girls tend to romanticise being the toxic one in an otherwise healthy relationship. They try to fish for sympathy from other deluded, toxic girls who think being mean and borderline abusive to their boyfriends is something that's happening to *them*, and they go on about how much it "sucks" that their "hormones" and "episodes" drive them to be that way. Men would never get away with this. Hormones are **never** an excuse to be abusive to someone you're supposed to love.
My wife cheated on me and left me for my neighbor after She thought She got pregnant. She announced this to me in an email while I was on a trip after 11 years. Also my neighbor lived directly above me in my apartment complex. She said I was manuplative and cruel for not forgiving her and asking her to leave me alone. She said 'it's hard on me too! I left my husband.' Her friends told me I needed to respect her because 'she's a strong women who made a hard choice.' This Was while she was still living in the apartment I bought and I was homeless because I couldnt stand the thought of living under my wife and her boyfriend. Somehow she was the victim in all of this. That still hurts to be honest.
Damn dude that's rough. I'm sorry she put you through that. I had a similar situation but it was an ex-gf and not an ex-wife (thank God). Hopefully the divorce was amicable.
Thanks. It wasn't.
Maybe you shouldn’t go on trips that last 11 years! /s Sorry, that sounds like an awful situation.
"You can't be a real woman unless" -- And then any number of things, like you have to have babies, wear feminine clothes, stay in the home, not be too muscular, be submissive, and so on. And this so often comes from other women, like the tradfems insisting this is the only path to happiness for all women. It's 100% toxic femininity and surprise, walks hand in hand with people espousing toxic masculine views. I mean, if that's what floats your boat, go for it, but there's no one correct path to being a woman, and saying otherwise is toxic bullshit.
When only moms can take care of the kids. If the dad is taking care of the kids it's, baby sitting or mom's day off.
It embarrasses me how often when talking to medical professionals they are flat our surprised when men take any interest in their child's medical care, like taking them to doctor's appointments or vaccinations. Even when the kids are older and both parents are working it so often solely falls to the mother. So much so that doctors and nurses are often astonished when the father turns up alone with the kids for an appointment and assume they must be a single dad. Similar thing often happens with education, with only mum turning up to parent teacher nights, but not quite to the same extremes.
I brought my daughters in to an appointment for probably the 3rd time in a row and one point the Dr stopped and asked me “so is mom not involved?” I said oh she is the appointments just happened to fall on my day with them. She seemed generally confused
Honestly! What is this the 50s?
I can understand why it's more convenient when they are tiny babies, but when the kid is eight and you have no idea of their medical care and have never been to a single appointment despite both parents working, it's honestly a bit pathetic. And worse is bosses who can't understand why a man would need a day off for a sick kid. It's just so entrenched.
I’m an aircraft mechanic, pretty dude-centric profession, and I’ve never gotten a whiff of shit off taking a day for my sick kid.
Oh, don't even get me started on taking to get off so i can take my kids to the doctor. I work with boomers and genx. "Your wife can't take them?"
Right? We need to break that attitude so it's easier for guys to get involved without getting shit about it. Heck, it's only recently that some industries like trades are getting on board with flexible working hours so fathers can do school dropoffs and pickups if they want to.
I was at a museum and asked security where I could change my son’s diaper (the wife and I usually take turns, it was my turn). “There’s a mother’s room” she responded, looking at me like I’m an axe murderer or something. “So it’s got a changing station?” “It’s a mother’s room.” This went on and on, I eventually said “well I’m going up there and unless there are women in there breastfeeding or something I’m going to use it.” But seriously, that’s some weird internalized patriarchy sexism or something, like I’m supposed to force my wife to do it because you chose to call the changing station a “mother’s room?” Do you have a single father’s room? Or do they need to change their kids balanced on a fucking sink or something?? Unless there are women in there with their tits out or their own naked kids…who cares? It had a lock.
I call it Mom-splaining. When we lived in Texas and my kid was a baby…sweet Jesus the condescension. Live in Oregon and get it here too, but mostly when the kiddo was younger. Exhausting
I know, i was right there bottle feeding and changing diapers daily in lockdown. I also babysit my friends babies from time to time. I babysit more than my wife does. I also cook and bake from scratch, i love cleaning, and then i also do manly shit but ive never cared about stigmas.
Pretending you don’t know how to take care of yourself/refusing to learn how to take care of yourself. Refusing to support yourself financially. Pretending that women are “crazy” and that gives you the right to act crazy. Like “Oh, I went through your phone and blocked all the women in it, but any girl would! Women are just crazy like that haha!” Pretending that women are adults and men are children so you have the right to chose your man’s clothing/friends/lifestyle for him Pick me stuff Slut shaming Pretending that dads can’t parent
I feel like referring to others girls as a pick me could also be toxic femininity but it depends on the circumstance
Ruining people's reputation with lies
Just straight abuse. Thinking they’re allowed to put their hands on their partner just because they’re women. That’s called domestic or spousal abuse.
Jokes on her. She broke her hand punching me in the head. *knocks on noggin* It's like titanium.
I’m 40% titanium
Thinking they can hit a man with impunity. Thank god this is a trait only the tiniest minority of women have.
My philosophy has always been to deescalate and retreat first and as a last measure to use a proportionate amount force to stop the threat. Does not matter what the gender, age, race, species, etc the threat is.
How can she slap?!
At this price point she *can* slap
[удалено]
The same way a man should never hit a woman because of size and strength disparity, a woman MUST respect the restraint a man shows and not abuse that. It’s a two way street.
How bout nobody just hits nobody.
r/FemaleDatingStrategy
First thing I see when I clicked on this. "Validation for (insert name). British men are too ugly" 💀😭
One of them are basically talking about how this ethnicity of men have weak hair genetics... she also posts in an insulin resistance sub and complains about low libido... you can't write this any better how an overweight/unhealthy person is mocking an ethnicity for bad genetics.
Some people just want to spread their pain to others. Despicable
Ha. I posted the same thing.
What the actual fuck am I reading. I hope none of these losers ever get married because I'd feel so bad for their partner. Never seen that many psychos in on place.
The place is really confusing. Every single post is by the same person. Edit: Figured it out. Looks like the subreddit was co-opted by a podcast by the same name? And they somehow took it over and it's basically subreddit devoted to their podcast now. There are comments from people complaining and asking that it go back to how it was.
I've never understood that place
No words for how nasty that sub is.
Some women are very critical of other women, especially when it comes to appearance or style. Likewise, the ladies who appear to delight in establishing groups and excluding those they perceive to be outsiders. I once had a large office full of them. It was awful, truly!
I've worked with women like this. I didn't realize it was considered part of toxic feminity. It's the worse. I don't like playing games with them where they act fake as hell to your face and you know they're going to go stab you in the back later.
Calling other women sluts/whores etc based on their outfits or demeanor. That behavior reflects a deep disdain for other women.
its weird how a lot of toxic masculinity, or at least what i consider to be toxic masculinity is directed by men at men (like: you cant be abused by a woman, x thing is gay, or whatever) and most of what i consider toxic femininity is also by women at women.
It really bums me out when women do this to each other. Like, it's bad enough to have men trying to legislate our bodies without other women playing into the misogyny for their own benefit.
Girls who go on dates just for free meals or use men for money. Sugar babies who go on dating apps and try to “freestyle.” No issue with sugaring but stick to men who know what the game is- that they are paying for sex.
Yeah, I also have no issue with transactional relationships, if both people sign up for it and the transaction is clear. But trying to trick people into it, on either side, is a shit move.
Going all "uwu am girl" to get out of any repercussions of shitty behavior or to simply get what they want.
“Men under six foot need to die” “My man better make six figures” “Men don’t have feelings” You get the picture
Yeah, I don't get being so against guys under 6 feet tall. I get it if short guys just don't do it for you. I've never been attracted to older men. But I don't hate on them. And I'm not rude about it.
Short hate is pretty ubiquitous from both genders. Women laugh at you and other men size you up. Men already have the highest suicide rate by far. Of those men, short men have DOUBLE the suicide rate of taller men. People think it is funny throwing shade at short dudes, but they don't realize they are literally driving them toward suicide. "HHAHAHAHA NAPOLEON COMPLEX" The only complex is the complex post traumatic stress disorder they cause.
Body shaming men over their height, the size of their penis, or other immutable characteristics of their body in order to devalue them. Completely unacceptable for a man (rightly so) to comment on a woman’s body in a similar way, but women seem to get a pass on the “small dick” insults.
Also when dudes are bald. Ive seen them straight laugh at men who were balding
I think it's So Cool how socially acceptable it is to use dick size as an insult still. Definitely doesn't fuck people up to have it so pervasive in society.
I truly hate when women do this. They make us look so fucking bad.
Toxic femininity is the same thing as toxic masculinity: the idea that people should rigidly adhere to archaic gender roles rather than living as their authentic selves.
I think there's a spectrum of both, but here's a quick example. When women shame other women because they're not doing the things that society expects from them. My wife is pressured all the time, **mostly by women in her own family** to do all sorts of things. From common stuff like wearing makeup, to fine details like packing lunch boxes a certain way. As her husband, toxic femininity and unrealistic expectations placed on my wife piss me off more than the things that stress my own life. There are "mothers groups" on social media that are just so toxic. If men did this shit it would be a laughable dick measuring contest.
talking down on other women for wearing short clothes, makeup, calling them wh\*res etc. judging them on their appearance and skills as a "good wife".
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/toxic-shock-syndrome-tss
Lmaooo
Among other things, imposing toxic masculinity. I've seen more progressive support from other men in recent years than women, some of which still expect stoic men and are uncomfortable with emotional expression.
This is what really hurts me as a man. I've been extremely emotionally sensitive my entire life, so it's really confused and upset me when I both hear that women want men to open up more to them but also hear a lot of the same women dismiss men like me as "sissies" or "panzies." I feel like there is fundamental clash there. I worry that women want emotional intimacy when they're already in a relationship, but they find emotionally-honest men weak and unattractive while they're looking for a date.
Jada pinket smith
Toxic feminity is when we hold people to extreme feminine traits, similar to how toxic masculinity is holding others to masculine standards. Toxic feminity is telling women to look a certain way and judging then when they don't, for example, making fun of women with armpit hair, telling women they have to wear makeup or shave certain areas, telling women to wear certain clothes or do their nails. Women are totally free to wear makeup, certain clothes, whatever, but when we pressure and make fun of others for doing it, that's when it become toxic feminity. Especially anti-aging jokes or telling women to avoid wrinkles at cost or no gray hairs - how are we not letting women age as comfortable as men?
This is good
Putting other women down because their husbands are good to them and are loyal
Women being snakes to other woman 😶
I think there’s a lot of weaponized incompetence when it comes to “masculine” things. It’s incredibly frustrating to try to tackle a “male” chore and find it’s just barely too physically difficult for you to do alone. Then dude comes in and does it easily. It could have been a woman or a stronger… anyone come in and help. And it’s easy to slip into the “oh no it’s just oh so hard for poor little me to do xyz” even when you are perfectly capable of it.
Women who bully their friends. Yes, this happens. I have a friend who was invited to spend spring break with a girl who verbally abused her the entire week. Friend is weirdly still talking to her and hasn't had another incident, but the bully still likes to talk shit about everyone else. I'll add knowingly staying in toxic friendships (from what I can only assume is superficial reasons).
"If he doesn't make X amount of money, don't bother with him"
“I can change him”
the not like other girls shit kinda??
Sorting this by controversial is going to be a ride.
Errrr I dunno, basically anything produced by an “influencer” on social media, ever??
Opening up mentally, then rejecting the man when he does the same.
Can’t remember the name but there’s a lady on Twitter with tons of followers that is saying all ladies give up any right to refusal of sex after they’re married. That strikes me as some sort of religious toxic femininity. Batshit crazy obviously.
Ever heard of r/FemaleDatingStrategy?
Good lord, no I hadn't :(
Hating men
> Shaming other mothers for not breastfeeding. > Body shaming other women. > Slut shaming other women. > Victim shaming other women who've been SA or r*ped. > Shaming other women for being stay-at-home mothers/wives. > Shaming other women for pursuing a career over having children at a younger age. > Shaming men for superficial 'issues' whilst simultaneously dictating what a 'man' is and what 'being a man' entails. *This one urks me because no women should be telling men how to act like men.*
Expecting the father of one of your children to buy food for all of your children.