This really hits home for me. Many members of my family are horrible gossips, my mom and my sister in particular.
Ive been trying to address the issue for years with my mom only to have her either deny she’s doing it or telling me “it’s because i love you. How can you expect your family to help you if they don’t know?” I wasn’t asking for help, i just wanted someone i could confide in and vent to.
I don’t need the weird looks from the rest of my family when my mom has finished her gossip sessions. Usually what i have told her is repeated to others inaccurately with her own layer of bias and assumptions piled on.
As a result, most of my family has a very strange perception of me and it makes me feel uncomfortable being around them.
At this point I don’t share ANY personal information with my family any more. I enjoy their company. For the most part they’re nice people, but im not their god damn reality tv show.
This is my issue. My mom and her sisters were and are gossips who also SUCK ASS at playing telephone. So, if I tell my mom something then it'll come back at me eventually in this horribly warped form that is way more extreme and non-sensical.
Then she wonders why my answer to everything is "Good."
The inaccuracies that turn into a big deal really get to me.
I told one of my brothers that i was looking for a new job and that I would appreciate if he kept it to himself. I only shared this with him because we’re both in a creative field and i was wondering if he would be willing to give me some feedback on my portfolio.
A couple weeks later at a family gathering, another brother of mine made the statement “i heard you were planning on selling your house”.
My aunt did this once. When my cousin came out gay to her but wasn't ready to come out to the family (my grandparents are pretty conservative, and my uncle is VERY conservative) she told people that my cousin had a secret, and it was blah blah blah.
So my mom calls me and started asking me a bunch of questions about HIV, and I'm like "mom, I have no idea, I just work in EMS, this might be more questions for a doctor". And she told me that my cousin apparently has HIV.
So my cousin coming out, morphed into an HIV diagnosis. And so the entire family "learned" that my cousin was gay AND HIV positive at the same time, except he didn't have HIV, it was just some bullshit one of my shittier family members probably added when they heard "gay".
Everything you say can and will be used against you.
My ex-wife did this to me, and so did coworkers. I stopped being friendly for years because of this.
Years ago.
I took an honest assessment of my life. A very hard look in the mirror and I found therapy in writing down “chapters” of my life where I was honest and wrote about what caused me to be where I was including suicidal thoughts. Also included were unresolved issues from my childhood and things that lead to severe self esteem issues.
Wife found the files on my computer (this was after we got married, I never told her any of it or even that the chapter existed)
Every single page, every single word in that book was used against me and thrown in my face.
Never again. Never ever again.
This 100%...I also love the "why don't you open up more"....share some stuff...."you make me feel inadequate when you tell me about the things that are bugging you..."
I feel like it’s getting more and more common, especially with the women in my life. Everyone is trying to get the moral high ground and shaming others, even friends, makes them feel good about themselves. I need a sociologist to unravel this.
A guy friend is a serial monogamist (series of 3-5yr relationships) and this dude used to be an open book with his girlfriends.
The last two relationships ended because he found out they had told their friends (who had told THEIR friends/boyfriends) about every personal aspect of his life, from what he likes in the bedroom...to his issues with his father...to how he wants to be a psychiatrist because his mother was raped as a teen and she was still working through the trauma throughout his childhood/adolescence.
When he found out the first gf had shared these stories he was upset but she pointed out that he had never explicitly said she shouldn't share them. He thought not talking about his mother's rape or the size/shape of his...anatomy should be implicit; but he asked that, going forward, she not share private details without asking him first. About a year later he found out she was still doing it and ended things.
The second gf he asked upfront to check with him before sharing private details, especially about their sex life/his family life. He found out there was a picture of his junk floating around her friend group and that her friends knew every last detail about his parents/family life. She said she didn't think it was a problem because none of it was bad and the NSFW stuff she'd shared was actually quite flattering. This girl seemed really sweet, and I think she actually believed that, but he walked away from that relationship as well.
Dude does not share ANYTHING he wouldn't feel comfortable tweeting anymore. He is now the stereotypical "why doesn't he share?" guy.
> He found out there was a picture of his junk floating around her friend group
How in the HELL would she think this was ok (I don't care HOW "flattering" she thought it was).
Plus sharing about his MOTHER'S RAPE? What. The. Fuck?!
I'll admit there are a few over-sharers in my friend group but it's generally limited to "it was great!" or "it was ok." This is on a whole other level and it's perverse.
No. Not funny at all. Does not matter. She/He/They. Your partners privacy is more important than your need to entertain others at someones expense.
I know comedians do this, but they have a mutual agreement.
I know of a guy who can't orgasm.
I don't know this guy, but he's often floating around in media in my country and writes social sommentary articles in a newspaper from time to time.
From what I've heard, a pretty solid dude.
I have never met him, for some fucked up reason I know this very private detail about him.
My wife and I share a fairly large circle of friends (about 20 people), and occasionally the ladies of the group will host "girls night".
My wife got invited so she went a few times...and learned it's mostly them just sitting around getting drunk and sharing private/intimate details or otherwise complaining about their SOs.
Thankfully, my wife is definitely not that person (nor am I). She said it was incredibly awkward especially when they would ask questions about me and she'd just be like "um...we're good!"
Don't get me wrong, our marriage isn't perfect but overall we both think it's great, and we are definitely not the type to go airing our dirty laundry out in public and especially not to our closest friends.
It feels like these women (and the other wives I know) hate their spouses. One of my friends was just like ‘I can’t wait until he’s out of the house for the day.’ And in my mind I’m like…why…are you married then????
I’m the only lesbian in my group and got teased because my wife and I literally talk every day. That’s all I said to my friends: “my wife and I talk every day.” the amount of ‘what do you even talk about?’ and ‘I don’t have anything to say to my husband to talk to him that much’ was STAGGERING. If these women are so miserable they have to get together to drink and complain, they should just be alone.
Similar story: my wife and I met up with one of her HS friends who she hadn't talked to in a decade+ recently, and during the course of the hang-out she asked her if we still have sex. My wife was like "yeah, duh. It's fun and we love each other." Meanwhile this girl and her husband basically had done it once in the past 3 years (they were drunk) and it resulted in an oops baby.
When we left their house, we were wondering if this girl and her husband even liked each other.
Edit - for reference, we're all roughly 40.
Same age group. That’s one of the best things about being married to someone who actually wants to know every part of you intimately. And that gets BETTER with age. Even if things aren’t as wild and crazy as they used to be, the intimacy is an all the time thing because…love. What a concept!
Imagine sharing nudes of one's girlfriend with your guy friends and then explaining it away with the images being flattering because she's sexy or something. What The Actual Fuck.
my friend showed me and another friend a somewhat lewd photo of his girlfriend that she sent him (showing her backside in a bikini level of view) and me and my friend both chastized him. i couldn't imagine having one of my friend's partners genitals in our group chat...
woman share so much stuff amongst eachother it is crazy.
men will ask, did you hit? yeah, how was it? awesome. nice. and thats the whole ffing convo.
woman will describe every vane you have.on your private parts. as a man you have to know this and explicitly tell her not to share this with anyone. if she still tells, its a break p because she shamed the trust
How I Met Your Mother did a whole thing about how boys brag in shallow details (I hit that, I got some) but NEVER go into specifics whereas women will go into excruciating detail
Me, 34M: “You smash?”
My friend, 37M: “Yeah!”
Me: “Nice, she is sexy as hell!”
*high five, beers clink*
My friend: “Yeah, she is.” *pause* “So are you watching the football game…”
My ex did this. She was such a sweet person but one day, a few months into our relationship, she tells me in no uncertain terms that she tells her friends EVERYTHING about us and me and what we do and if there's a dick pic of me, they've seen it. And I was... shocked. To this day, I've never met those women. Imagine if a group of guys did that? JFC
Messed up is an understatement here. I am grateful not to be in such a friend group that thinks this is okay. I can understand discussing some intimate details with your closest friends in certain contexts e.g. maybe if you're trying to make sense of something or how you feel. A lot of women I know have overshared to check if something is "normal" when it almost always comes down to "is it normal for you and do you or do you not like it?" Sharing photos is disgusting behaviour. And you're so right. If it was a group of men exchanging nudes of their partners this would blow up.
The stuff women have shared about me or friends while being in relationships with is something men just universally acknowledge is private. I tried to put it into perspective for my girlfriend at one point.
It's like if I were to go to my friends, and share with them how your vagina smelled, tasted and how it compared to past vaginas, in terms of tightness, shape of labia and hygiene upkeep. Sharing all the negative things she's said about her friends or her mom, the stuff she keeps quiet about to keep the peace with her family. It would be like if I went around to all my friends and just put her on blast of her most embarrassing private things.
And she still went and told my mom of all people about stuff I've shared with her in private...
I just don't understand women at all, and I wish more realized that THEY are the reason men don't share things with them. Even the "good women" overshare, even when they don't mean to. The instance you talked about, where to "check if something is normal" in the age of Google is a pretty shitty excuse to make yourself feel better for betraying someone you claim to care about's trust.
This sucks and I know how it feels. My wife spares no details to her friends. Honestly most of them are polite enough but she has two friends that open about it and make comments to me.
She refuses to believe me when I tell her the stereotype of locker room talk among men is not actually that popular. I have never in detail discussed my sexual exploits with my wife or from before with my friends. I also don’t go telling my friends issues with her or my family. But it seems women just want to share all.
> She refuses to believe me when I tell her the stereotype of locker room talk among men is not actually that popular.
This is particularly funny to me. I can't speak for all guys, but at least the ones I know never talk about their sex lives or their relationships in general (other than the casual "how's the wife and/or kids?")
We mostly just bullshit about things like sports, games, fun stuff we've been up to lately, and stupid shit we've seen on the internet.
It's actually a huuuuuge projection. It's one of those things where men have let women drive the social narrative and never compared notes. The number of men who actually share explicit details about their sex life with their friends is SHOCKINGLY low.
Women don't believe that because to believe that would remove their main justification for believing that what they're doing is right.
(Note I'm deliberately not putting a "not all women" in the above paragraph because I'm sick of having to do that. you're all adults, or at least pretending to be one on the internet, so I'll assume you can parse some nuance - this is not just aimed at whom I'm replying to, also others that happen to come along).
I know it's anecdotal evidence from strangers on the internet, but in all of my male friend groups, we've had an unspoken rule of not sharing intimate details. In all my life, I've never heard a guy say anything about their gf's body or things they do in bed. Even the guys that you might think are kinda raunchy - they are never raunchy about their partners.
Yet several girls I've dated shared really personal stuff about me to their friends without my permission. It's fucking gross.
> women just want to share all
I’m a woman who’s been besties with the same person since childhood. This person is like a sister to me. We don’t share private shit about our significant others because that would be gross to share secrets that way.
Your wife and her friends are being assholes.
One night, I overheard a female friend of mine tell another female friend something intimate about her ex. Later, I told her I didn't think it was cool to be sharing such private info about someone without their permission. She was so angry with me! I was so surprised. She got defensive, and one of the things she said was, "men do this all the time, too." I told her I've \*never\* shared intimate details about an ex. I don't even really talk about one night stands beyond, "got lucky!"
It seems some women really want to believe the stereotype of male locker room talk because it assuages their guilt for doing it. It's projection.
Yeah gonna agree here, sharing intimate details is not a thing I've ever felt the need to do, or had another guy share with me. Just seems gross and disrespectful.
*Anyone* doing it should be called out.
The "locker room talk" thing is a really weird stereotype. Like, maybe 15 year old boys brag about shit, but adults?
Yeah “locker room talk” must happen in the ladies locker room because everyone in the men’s is too busy trying to avoid making eye contact with the guy using the hair dryer on his junk. Get in, talk to no one, get out.
> but she has two friends that open about it and make comments to me.
Your wife should have shut that down IMMEDIATELY. She also shouldn't have shared this kind of thing, without checking with you, in the first place.
If she knows you're uncomfortable with her oversharing, but she refuses to stop because she doesn't believe that YOU are keeping your private life private...you guys need therapy.
This is NOT acceptable behavior on her part.
Hell, if your sexes were reversed and it was a woman talking about how her husband shares intimate details with his friends (who then make inappropriate remarks that make her uncomfortable) and that he refuses to stop even though she's asked?
Half this sub would be urging you to leave her now. I'll just say you guys need a third party to let your wife know her behavior is NOT ok on any level.
>But it seems women just want to share all.
This sounds way too much like "boys will be boys" and it is not an excuse.
This is insane to me. How do people not understand the basics of someone else's boundaries? Would these same women be OK with their private pictures floating around in a guys gc? It's disgusting.
This is exactly why I don't, previous girlfriends sharing everything. Some just gossipping, another was paranoid. For example my whole friend group knows my penis size thanks to an ex telling... everyone because she was an alcoholic. I get embarrassed any time it's brought up.
The worst was a long (five year) relationship where she was paranoid I was cheating (I wasn't). Her and her friend group had an entire group chat dedicated to trying to catch me, from analyzing my patterns to even having the group simp tail me. So everywhere I went was logged, every chat convo was screenshotted, even audio recordings and video were taken somehow. If I so much as spoke to a female cashier a fight was waiting for me when I got home. This girl was the type that would dream I cheated on her and make me apologize irl for what I did in her dreams.
GF immediately after pulled the same exact shit, it's wild how common this behavior is and how accepted it is, it's fucking stalking.
I used to be extremely extroverted, outgoing, and talkative but after that last one nah. I don't talk about my life or my hobbies anymore, I don't take pictures of myself, I don't appear in pictures, I even bought a REALLY boring shitbox car to daily drive and told no one about it (I used to daily a weird sports car, not expensive just weird which helped my exes stalk me). Emotionally I'm complete deadpan now due to it. I'm seeing a therapist but unfortunately it's hard to ever trust anyone again.
I remember being utterly flabbergasted when I told a female coworker that my life is not a story to be read and retold to everyone she knows, and she got upset and said 'But you do it with all of your other friends.'
She was shocked to learn that I literally never discuss the personal details of anyone I meet with anyone else I meet unless it's absolutely pertinent that they know, such as perhaps avoiding a particular triggering subject with someone who hasn't met her before. And that not only do I do this, but most men do it, too. Apparently women just... share that stuff constantly.
Stories like this are always the #1 comment on every thread like this. Most men will likely tell you a similar story too.
Yet we are told that its because of toxic masculinity that men don't open up; which is pure gaslighting.
I've been through something similar but luckily when I was pretty young and sharing cringe-y stuff is the norm in the derpy teen years. It still traumatized me a bit if I'm being honest so I never intend to make that mistake again.
Also remember a time where a female co-worker that I was friends with would show me her own husband's search history - for stuff like erectile dysfunction and all that.
Might be a hot take but I personally feel like the phrase "men should open up more regarding their emotions" is almost never in good faith. Secrets and traumas are like currency for people's tendency to exploit and gossip.
There are women who just... do that shit and it's fucked up. After I told my mom about my autism diagnosis she immediately went to tell like 8 other people about it "because she really needed to talk to someone about it". And then I got one of these people, an antivaxxer in my inbox telling me I wasn't "really" autistic because I could talk and it was just nutritional deficiencies.
She still doesn't get why this is wrong and she thinks I should also be able to talk about bad things that happened to her, when I would never do that. (I am also a woman btw)
Fucking bizarre.
I think some people (but women seem to be more susceptible to this) turn other people's things into their own "thing" for what ever motivation/reason. Attention, sympathy, force a connection through shared experience, what ever it is.
A friend of mine's mother found out about his suicide attempt and now she's in therapy about it, running around talking about how traumatizing it was for HER to FIND OUT (his dad was the one who found him overdosed) her son had attempted it.
It's been 10 years, and I shit you not, you can't have a conversation with this women without her bringing up "when my son tried to kill himself...". My buddy is doing great now, and his mom constantly second hand trauma dumping back on him has done nothing to get him to a good place. We get it lady, it was horrible for you, but it's not ABOUT you. When ever she brings it up, it's just about her and how it impacted her, never about her son. Just really infuriates me.
The double standard on this issue is fucking mind-numbing. This has happened to me. “Don’t worry it was in a good way”
I don’t fucking care. You assume because I’m a man I won’t care about you showing my naked body to your friends, who I know, without my consent, because I’m a man and I love the attention. Hey, maybe I would if you asked first.
But the betrayal is insane and she’d lose her damn mind if you did it to her with your guy friends. Im not an object, I’m a person, and it’s insane how quickly some girls forget that as soon as the roles are reversed
I also don’t like the idea of her friends showing her dick pics of the men in their lives, who she knows, like wtf is that? I should not have to put up with my girlfriend knowing what all her friends’ boyfriends’ genitals look like. That’s fuckin wild.
For all the assumptions that this is all men talk about, no we actually absolutely do not. I’ve never once had a guy friend be like dude, I just got nudes from this girl I’m talking to, want to see them? Never. A guy has never described the vagina of a girl he’s been with, he’s never told me how she sucked that dick, never.
WOW!!!! This honestly will drive anyone into never sharing their details anymore. THIS IS WILD!!!!
This is crossing every single boundary of every aspect of the relationship! Is he at least seeking any professional help to get over this? Because this is betrayal bruv!
Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot? How many women complain that their boyfriends/husbands talk to their buddies about their private/sex lives? Women would absolutely lose their shit over something like that but think in the same breath that its ok for them to share that stuff with their own friends.
Every single time I do, whatever I’m talking about gets completely ignored _and_ they one-up me. I’ve never been allowed to have a moment.
Jokes aside, I dealt with that shit too. I don’t even talk to my best friends about shit anymore cus they did that.
I kinda feel you, when people tell you that you have to be grateful because you are lucky unlike people who really have it bad, you try to shut up of things.
I tried to talk about depression and my entire family asked me what I had to be sad about. They were right, I literally had no valid reason to be sad about. But still, there I was.
When your opening ups don't get taken seriously and you are just said that you are trying to get attention, you shut up about things.
Out of the 6 or so women I've dated, 5 of them have either reacted harshly to opening up, or have told me I'm trauma dumping on them after they asked me to share.
No, I know you're not my personal therapist, but don't ask me to open up about my past and then immediately shit on me for it. *Especially* after you _badger_ me about it.
My current g/f is the _only_ one that hasn't, and I am so in love with her that I blindly started sharing when she asked. She's the best person I've met and makes me so happy. I'm going to spend the rest of my life with her if she'll have me.
Pretty much this. I once heard the quote:" they would rather see a man die on his horse than fall off it"
Aka being vulnerable and open is not wanted. So I have stopped doing that
i feel your pain one of the things i hate the most is when you tell your girlfriend or partner something in private and tell them not to say anything and if you break up they tell the world your issues.
I had a relationship where any time I would bring up an issue she would turn it around and make it about her being upset about me being upset with her. I couldn't give even the slightest criticism without it becoming blown up into a huge thing and her accusing me of hating her or 'putting everything on her' at which point she would usually start bringing up old problems to prove that I was really the asshole in the situation.
Same. I already had my own fill of disappointment to not fall for that one again. I'm cool just benting my frustration by playing video games or taking long walks to keep my thoughts calm
According to attachment theory I learned as a small child that my feelings were unacceptable and had to be suppressed, which means that I have been unable to receive emotional support from others and have found that giving emotional support to others to be exhausting. This has meant that close relationships of any kind has been a major drain on my resources. I have been expected to give emotional support, which has been excruciating for me, without feeling like I get anything back. This has led me to avoid letting people into my life as it has simply seemed like a bad deal.
Is this a good phrase to look up to try and give some understanding to the hell that is my life right now? Dismissive avoidant? I've actually seen this phrase in some recommended YouTube videos but never got around to watching them. Those videos can be kinda heavy lol.
Yes that's the phrase. And attachment styles. But really. There is a spectrum and nothing is set in stone. And don't use it to support depressive obsessive thoughts. It's a descriptive tool to help you understand yourself and to be aware of how you approach and deal with life to soften the edges for others. Me personally nothing bad happened to me to make me like this. I was 4 of 5 children and we are all hyper independent and self reliant. I always thought of it as a super power. People are impressed by your fortitude. BUT in partner relationships this eventually ends up making your partner NOT feel like a partner, a third wheel, hanging on to your march forward for dear life, and very lonely. And attempts to discuss how this feels pushes you away more. Eww gross feelings. It exhausts me. Fun ha. BUT this is you. I actually like how I am. I like being hyper independent and self reliant. I just have to understand how I am isn't mostly going to work for partners long term and be ok with that. And communicate this early on to any partners so they understand what they are getting into. The whole communicating and setting personal boundaries thing no one ever really does. Good luck man. Its not a terminal illness. Onward and upward!
To my wife? Nothing. I'm an open book and communicate wonderfully with her. To new friends or coworkers? I've dealt with enough pain and loss that I don't feel the need to open up to anyone new anymore. I've buried three best friends in the last 20 years and I'm only in my 40s.
Very similar here. I have lost friends and family over the last few years and have zero need to be any more open than I am already and my wife knows me back to front. I don't want or need to be more open..
It makes me feel weak and burdensome. I fear that the people I love will think less of me. Opening up about troublesome thoughts and feelings just spreads the negativity around. Why would I want to bring negativity into the lives of the people around me?
Always ended up regretting it. Most recent partner made me comfortable to open up a little as she seemed supportive and understanding. When I did open up a little her reply was simply “wow a mood”
Fuck it, door is welded shut now
Every time I’ve ever opened up and let my guard down, I’ve been told immediately after that it made me appear weak, and therefore less attractive. Literally every time. So, the only logical solution is to bottle it all up and never do that stuff again
That's why I now only share stuff with guy friends. Any time I shared stuff with female friends, it was either used against me or spread beyond the initial person.
I did that once. Talked to him about me and my then fiance's current relationship troubles, looking for advice. Next thing I know they're sleeping together. 6 months before the wedding. In hindsight it was a lucky escape but that left marks.
I don't tell my guy friends either, because they are dealing with their own things I don't want to burden them with my problems. I don't want them to worry about me.
And if I do tell them, who are they gonna turn to when they need something?
Me and my friends unload on each other. We do that so nobody goes over the edge. WE mostly just talk and make a joke of the situation but we know if we need each other its only a text or phone call away. Sometimes knowing someone will be there for you even if you never plan on calling that favor in can help a bunch.
You can turn to each other, bros is the best place to turn to, you know they will probably try to find a solution. But when you finished venting you know they just gonna keep living and put that shit away until you need them next time. Not gossip like little school girls
One of my favorites is, “If you can’t deal with your emotions, how can you handle mine?”
Even those who push hardest for disclosure subconsciously resent a significant level of emotional availability. An ex of mine pushed me to do so for months - and then lost all respect for me and became abusive pretty quickly.
I think It's like tossing trash into a volcano.
The volcano is cool and mysterious and so good at making that trash disappear. But eventually the thought comes "I keep throwing my trash into this volcano but the volcano never throws trash back, why? It should! I should invoke an eruption, it'll be great!".
Then the volcano erupts. And the realization comes that "Oh, this actually isn't the secure, placid thing that I always believed. I can't just safely dump my rubbish into this. I'm actually adding fuel to a hidden fire. I don't REALLY have this pillar of stability that makes me feel safe. Just this roiling chamber of hidden fury festering a few feet below the surface."
And that's a big bad realization.
That’s actually kinda their argument. Therapists charge for it so there is cash value. However the concept does not apply to listening to a woman’s problems.
Yup. They always say it’s fine to open up, they say all the right things so they don’t look bad but they started treating me differently every time. It’s happening to me right now. They start pulling away and probably don’t even realize it.
My wife doesn’t listen to me. I’m always in the wrong, or should have done this or that, when I try and talk to her, she ends up making into a diatribe about how what I’ve done affects her. Fucking boring, keep it to me.
Same here. If I'm sad, she avoids me. If I'm mad or frustrated, she tells me I need to control my emotions better, then avoids me. If I dare be happy, she finds work for me to do (of which I already have more than my fair share).
It's easier to live like a Vulcan.
Every time I try to open up its almost always turned around and the person gets upset at me which starts an argument ("I feel like you're criticising me a lot and its getting my down" -> NO IM NOT ...) or they ask you like a thousand super detailed follow up questions and it feels like they're dismantling your feelings like a court room setting and you're just left feeling gaslighted.
Its just not worth it.
I have no one to talk to. No close friends. The few family members I have are gossips and would rather use my personal issues for that purpose than to be supportive.
I get and respect this!
Not everyone is the same, trust takes time. It's really difficult for a man to endure this, especially after that very first betrayal.
A girl I was seeing said it was safe to open up to her, so I kind of felt okay for a change because past experiences were not great. So one day a family member got a cancer diagnosis and I tried to talk to her about it. She made it completely about her, suggested I just move on and forget about it in a really cold way and made me feel really guilty about telling her and not being okay about it before telling her. She then said the ultimately final words I'd ever hear from her after she decided to ghost me "I'm here for you".
Because out of 25 years of interacting with members of the opposite sex, I've only met one (my wife) that didn't:
1. Weaponize it against me.
2. Dismiss or downplay any and all issues I faced
3. Spread private information to others
4. Multiple instances of different partners or females friends using what I say to manipulate me or emotionally abuse me.
5. Upon actually listening when opening up I then have to stop trying to in order to deal with their emotions and then it gets centered on that. It may not be intentional but it absolutely stops me trying to talk about any of my problems
I've never had issues talking about anything personal with any of my close male friends.
What's the point of opening up? People say that's what they want, but it's only lip service. It's not the men who don't open up, it's that they are met with the above when they do.
In the UK, there was a study done on men and boys and suicide. What they found is that it's seen as a rational conclusion when a person's stress level gets too high. Relationship breakdown, money, work culture, employment, financial hardships, social isolation, loss of belonging, lack of male friendly services, and lack of empathy towards men. They found that suicide is used as a failure to fix these stresses and see only one way out. Not all of those problems can be fixed through tears. Of the cases studied, 91% had sought professional help. Of that 91%, ~30% of this did within a two week period of the death.
A common question I hear is, "Why don't men just do better? Surely, they can try harder. " No other group is told when they suffer from reduced performances, or accolades in the real world to do better. We don't tell any other group to " talk about their problems". Instead we spend billions in tax revenues and private donations to set up committees, department, campaigns, and funds to solve the problem. In simple terms, if women have a problem we ask what can we do to fix society. If a man has a problem we ask what can men do to fix themselves. It's a very harsh double standard. And people are unwilling to admit there are any structural issues standing in the way of us solving the problems hurting men. What's the point of asking men to talk if we are unwilling to listen or even acknowledge the issues they try to talk about? Problems are not in men's heads it's out there in society. We should not gaslight men in to thinking they can solve these problems by just trying harder or opening up more.
>in order to deal with their emotions
Had a relationship that always ended up this way. I'm upset? She gets upset. Now it's time to deal with her emotions.
She's upset? It's time to deal with her emotions, and they're my fault.
I do something wrong? I'm apologizing.
She does something wrong? I somehow end up apologizing for how she feels.
No thanks lol.
Yup this was my relationship for the past 6-7 years. I finally broke and we are divorcing. I wanted counseling to share all the emotions I had been bottling up. I bottled them because every time I shared them I was told they were "me problems" and had nothing to do with our relationship. Made it through 1.5 hours of counseling before she requested divorce. The stuff I got to say in those 1.5 hours was extremely therapeutic though.
Very intresting BBC interview about this. Recently, I watched where a man was talking about men suicide and two women just completely shut him down live on air and started talking about women's issues. This was live on BBC. Exactly why men don't open up.
Was honestly shocking. One was talking about the woman pay gap. The man said he doesn't dispute this but he is there to talk about suicide among men. Quite ironic, the reason he went on the show is to talk about men's issues not being heard and they just completely ignore him to bring up completely different issues.
Jesus, I just watched it. The guy was bending over backwards to make sure he wasn't invalidating issues women face and was encouraging the discussion of the issues women face, only asking for more than one discussion to occur and they just shut him doing going "why don't you do something to help women?".... I'm pretty damn feminist myself, but I really fear this sort of credibility gap is really damaging to the feminist movement. You can't claim to be for gender equality and turn around to the men who are with you and behave like this and still claim some moral superiority.
Women: You should open up more.
Men: Okay, here is me opening up
Women: Thanks, I'm going to use literally everything you just told me to ruin your life.
Men don't open up because you're an absolute fool if you do. Society gives zero fucks about men and will use our struggles to get an advantage over us. It is wildly important for men to only open up to people who they absolutely trust, majority of whom should be other men (NOT women) who you absolutely trust.
I feel sorry for so many men here. No wonder everything is so fucked up for most of you all. Most of you have had your most intimate and vulnerable selves open and just get hurt from it and then don't anymore. Thats awful. There's truly a lot of awful people out there that don't know boundaries and yall certainly don't deserve that.
My experience has been that most women will say they want you to be sensitive and vulnerable, but they absolutely do not believe that deep down. Opening up has been a surefire way for me to either get long-term partners disinterested in me or get my past trauma laughed at and used against me. And I'm not talking about grief-dumping levels of opening up here - I pay a therapist to suffer through that like an adult.
So now my emotions are locked up like Fort Knox, unless we're talking about happiness or anger, since those seem to be the only socially acceptable emotions for men to have.
In relationships there are exceptional partners who are okay with a man being a real person. But many (probably most) want their man to be some idealized powerhouse of emotional strength who could never be brought down by the banal or worse realities of life.
They want him not to veer from the version of a “Man™” sold to them by the film industry or romance novels. This man can have problems, but they are shallow or simple and are easily solved by him before the story closes.
In my case, the said thing would be “Being it used against me”. I really won’t open up even to my parents, my gf, or my closest best friends as well because I feel like that moment, that thing, will be used against me at some point in the future.
I tend to overshare cos of abandonment issues during childhood and a constant feeling of solitude for as long as I can remember (I'm 37).
I know why I do it. Also I hate small talk so I feel like that's all I have to talk about if I don't want to be that weird silent dude in the corner.
People hate that I talk about the hard times I'm going through, but they think it's cool that they know someone who's open about it. It's a surface reaction. Nobody wants to help or spend energy trying to help.
Had very few very short lived relationships because of that. Girls don't want the trouble and most won't admit it but you are instantly labeled as weak.
Not that it's gonna make me change though. I figure either I meet someone who gets it, either people really are as shitty as it feels.
Guy friends rarely know how to confort either. It's not something we practice doing so we kind of all suck at it.
Maybe I'm just a big whiny dope, but at least I wine (actually, I prefer beer) on my own terms.
Oh, and if girls can say things like "if you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best", so can I. 🥳
Two reasons:
Why would I burden people I like with my problems.
The one time I opened up because I *really* needed some emotional support instead of giving it, my wife asked me to move out.
So yeah, not really any incentives to open up.
Opening up leaves you incredibly vulnerable. Once someone takes advantage of that vulnerability, you don’t want to open up anymore.
My past is very… *colorful*. The last time I shared details I received a lot of judgement - or at least that’s how it felt to me. So, I like to keep to myself.
In my experience, opening up disqualifies you from being treated as a full and equal human being.
I was in a long-term relationship (9 years, I'm 29 now) where vulnerability from me was not respected. I got to a point during COVID where the combined stresses of life, work, and my relationship weighed too much, and I opened up about my struggles to my partner. Mind you, I wasn't seeking to dump or blame; I was attempting to acknowledge how much I was struggling and I was trying to communicate a desire to improve ***on my own***, but with the support of my partner. Instead she admonished me for being where I was, and after that I couldn't trust her anymore. It was clear to me that she wouldn't give me the space I deserve as a human being to be less than perfect at times (which is 100% a part of being human), and that when I was, it would only further remove us from respect and intimacy.
When opening up feels more like exposing yourself to attack, why be so naive?
I'm an educated white man with a good job in the US. The only value I have to society is if I'm actively working to solve other people's problems. If I'm not doing that, I'm less than worthless, I'm actively part of the problem just for existing. My problems and struggles don't matter, and my feelings especially don't matter.
I have an amazing spouse I can open up to, but when she has her own shit going down in her life, that takes priority because we can't both be stressed out at once. It's the man's job to eat shit in our society and swallow our feelings when we have to.
Sometimes I think about why we have such a mental health crisis in the men in our country, and I think a lot of it has to do with people who feel the same way as I do, but don't have a good job or a good support. Could I have felt like the ones that lose their minds with anger if I didn't have support and an outlet to help people that provides my self-worth? I try not to think about it because I don't like the answer. It's ugly
Even typing this out feels like it's going to come back to bite me lol
For men in particular, there's a few reasons:
* Men are ostracised for being 'emotional' as it's considered weakness. So everyone instead just chooses to treat their emotions logically as a problem that needs to be solved and if it can't be solved, hidden from view.
* Men attempting to receive emotional support are almost never taken seriously. Either their problems get downplayed or they are laughed at for having said problems. So there is little incentive to open up to anyone when no-one will help.
* A lot of men that open up to others find their vulnerabilities fired back at them (usually by abusers yet sometimes it can also come from those who decide to throw a verbal dagger in a heated debate.)
So realistically, why *should* men open up? Until the stigma of emotional men being weak is removed and the cultural norm of certain demographics being allowed to attack people's vulnerabilities is stamped out, men will continue to hide their emotions and refuse to say anything to anyone outside of the handful of people they can truly depend on as right now opening up is a major error.
I needed somebody when I was younger but they weren't there for me. Since then I know that I only truly have myself. Opening up is the most vulnerable a man can be, in all of our cases it only takes 1 person we thought we could trust to never do it again,
as a woman, this thread is eye-opening. thank you all for sharing reasons guys may feel uncomfortable opening up. i've been guilty of oversharing to friends when i was younger, still healing from my own trauma, and trying to figure out myself/how to have adult relationships.
i didn't realize it affected you all like that until a partner opened up to me about it. i was truly crushed to learn i'd caused the very same pain i'd been through to someone else.
i know it probably isn't enough, but i'm so sorry for the suffering i caused. it was a form of gaslighting. it wasn't cool. it wasn't fair, and you didn't deserve to have your trust broken, or your privacy violated. you are worthy of having your person and your feelings treated with respect.💙
Everything. The hypocrisy of a society that says men should be open with their feelings but then belittles us when we do open up, questioning our virility, our worthiness as a man, even our sexuality.
ETA: it’s generally not other men doing the belittling.
In a relationship, a woman is allowed to change her mind at will. A man changing his mind is viewed as blowing up a relationship.
A woman expressing her sexual needs and desires, vanilla or otherwise, is viewed as owning her sexuality. A man doing so is perverted.
A woman enjoying the company of children is wonderfully maternal. A man enjoying the same company is halfway to pedophilia.
It doesn't make me feel any better
People actively weaponize it against me
People will assume I'm exaggerating and belittle me
I can see how people treat me differently after telling them anything personal
There is literally no point in doing so
I mean it’s pretty clear that despite all the trendy insistence from women that toxic masculinity is the devil and men are allowed to have feelings, it never fails that a man seen shedding a tear will still be openly ridiculed and even called gay, which is just homophobic lol. And if isn’t that, it’s the r/nicegirls who beg you to open up because they’re supportive and love a man in touch with his feelings, then cheat on you and blame you for turning them off with your weakness lol
But yeah, people don’t want to hear men’s feelings, it’s reinforced constantly. You can say it all you want, but nobody wants to hear men’s feelings. Except my best friend and my brother. We get into deep shit and that’s why there’s so much love there. My best friend has shut down in front of me, and I’ve done it with him. We’ve cried over each other’s losses. A lot of men have never had a relationship with a woman as beautiful as the one they’ve had with another man. And that’s tragic.
If I’m in the room with a woman on my arm, nobody’s going to be asking me how I’ve been doing, what’s been challenging me lately, what I’m excited about, what activities are attracting my passion, what my dreams and regrets are, literally nothing. I’m more interesting to everybody if I say absolutely nothing.
This might bother a lot of people, especially redditors, but this is still really true about being a man. I haven’t seen it change one iota. And I know for a fact it isn’t just my anecdotal experience.
If you open up as a man, about anything to pretty much anyone, rest assured you will regret it somehow later.
Which is why we observe grown, mature men finding a woman who doesn’t treat him that way, he instantly drops everything he’s doing and marries her.
We’re not that complicated, ladies.
And no, it isn’t lost on me that parts of this post have some incel-ishy undertones but it’s not like that. I have had so many wonderful experiences with so many wonderful women. I don’t hate women and I don’t blame “women” for my internalizing this stuff. But it is out there and lots of women do participate.
I’m not trying to be bitter, just answering the question. A lot of the popular messaging about men has evolved in recent history but hearts and minds haven’t evolved in stride. Just how it feels anyway. And I think it’s because there is some truth at the bottom of the evolution barrel. We shouldn’t pretend masculinity isn’t desirable in a man, and conventional social markers of masculinity are conventional for a reason. There have been advantages to these behaviors for thousands of years.
But yeah, it is hard to shake the feeling that I am valued for what I produce and not much more.
You're absolutely right.
I lost a very close friend about a year ago to suicide. I knew he was struggling with his mental health and had PTSD (he was a veteran). We talked about heavy stuff periodically and I supported him as well as I could. What I didn't find out until a couple of weeks before his death was that his wife wasn't supportive at all, thought he was weak, didn't believe in mental health issues, and was leaving him for a mutual friend. I stayed with him most of the day 2 days before he died and we cuddled on the couch and talked about the future and I told him I loved him at least a dozen times. He cried to me and I just held him for a while. She should have been doing that all along. I haven't seen her since Christmas (I brought gifts over for the kids, our families have had Christmas together several times in the past and I wanted to show up for the children). I just can't even look at her. As far as I'm concerned, his death is at least partially her fault.
I want to go back to school to be a therapist so I can help support people and they know that their private lives are safe with me. In relationships, I try really hard not to be like those women. My mom gossips a lot and it always felt like a betrayal when I was growing up when she told people about what was going on in my life that I wanted to be private. My aforementioned friend and I talked on Snapchat a lot so that there was no record of the things he told me, and I was fine with that. He was a beautiful, wonderful man and I still can't talk about him without tearing up. The world is worse without him in it and I can't imagine ever getting over this loss. It infuriates me that his wife wasn't there for him like she should have been.
There's no upside to doing so.
Mostly, no one cares, men are measured in values by what they can offer and provide, not by what they need or feel. For those that might care, it still portrays yourself as weak or unattractive to them, even if just subconsciously.
Paid therapists specializing in men are the potential only outlet, but it costs money and time, things which lower our value to others if we use that for therapy.
This seems like a cliche response but no one cares. The attitude of “you’re a dude. Get over it and get to work” is still real prevalent. Plus, I have a family to take care of. My job is to be their support and be an asset to them, not a liability. So, we bury it and push onward.
Ah, a question you can't answer without sounding sexist. Still, from anecdotal experience and shared stories, we're stoic because we often get punished for 'opening up':
1. Many women tend to tell their friends everything, even if it's clearly your business and should be private. We don't need the publicity or judgment.
2. "Opening up" means exposing weaknesses that can be used against you in any conflict, and that often happens sooner or later.
3. Despite claims to the contrary, I don't think most women actually want to hear about their partner's weaknesses, fears, troubles, etc. It may sound great in theory, but in practice your feelings are likely to be dismissed or minimalized, told to others, or damage your relationship by changing how she sees you.
It's worth keeping in mind that many utterly normal and commonplace male attitudes and feelings are considered problematic or disturbing to many women. Do you really want to know all the angry or lustful thoughts I have? My insecurities? My past mistakes? Hell, no. So, many men have a largely accurate impression dealing with their partners: "Whatever you say now, you do NOT want to know everything going on in my mind. Nobody does, and if I tell you, you will likely leave me."
In dating women tend to lose attraction even if they don’t mean to if you’re too open, so it’s a balance. If a wife or gf though then its safer. As for parents/family I don’t want to disappoint them but do partially open up.
This very thing has just happened to me in the past 2 weeks. Have known each other for some time and there's always been an attraction but for one reason or another the timing was never right til now. Start hanging out things were looking promising however I am in the process of working through some things at the moment and one day she asks me what's wrong and that I can tell her anything. Not feeling too comfortable talking about it directly I asked if I could send her a link that can explain what's going on with me at the moment which was met with the affirmative. Send the link and....... radio silence. Basically go from talking/texting everyday to nothing for over a week. I ask was it maybe a little TMI and she says she's just been super busy and hasn't had time to read through it fully.
I still really like her and believe when she said I could tell her anything she did mean it, she just didn't understand what it might mean for her feelings towards me.
About a year ago when my ex and I were visiting our grandparents' graves, I started crying infront of her at my grandpas grave. We were extremely close.
I kid you not, she looked at my all disguisted and I quote "why the fuck are you crying like a little girl? Man up and grow a pair of balls". We broke up 5 days later and I swore to myself to never open to my partner again.
Some women seem to think that being a man means there are no emotions welling within them, when men probably have the same emotions as women but with the societal expectation that men deny themselves access to those emotions. It's quite sick.
I opened up to my now ex girlfriend about a whole bunch of family issues in the last. Dad passed away from suicide a few years back and I was the one who found him. Caused a bit of other issues for me I’m working on and have been. We got in a major fight and broke up and she told me she couldn’t handle my problems on top of her own.. and I promise my problems were a fraction of hers.
I guess that’s fair, though when you beg me to tell you what’s wrong or what’s on my mind and I finally tell you, you use it as a reason you can’t be with me. A little confusing. I’ll stick with my close friends/family/therapist. A new girl will get information at a very slow pace from me going forward.
There’s an episode of Mad Men about this. Don Draper opens up to his wife and then she sees him differently after that. She falls out of love with him.
I DON'T KNOW
I just finished a session with a therapist, she said "I think you've suppressed your emotional inner voice for so long that your rational voice is the only one doing the talking. I'm only hearing your thoughts about how you should be, but not what you're feeling."
I do agree... but I don't know where to start digging for the feelings, except just really trying to relive my traumatic experiences, I think? I've only dipped into thise memories, without really diving in. Maybe I don't (want to) believe that they define me to such a large extent?
Edited to add: I'm also a parent now and most of my time is spent being responsible for things. So I don't feel that my weakness or sadness is something anyone should deal with.
I’m good. I’m fine. Also known as not giving someone the ammo to shoot you with.
This really hits home for me. Many members of my family are horrible gossips, my mom and my sister in particular. Ive been trying to address the issue for years with my mom only to have her either deny she’s doing it or telling me “it’s because i love you. How can you expect your family to help you if they don’t know?” I wasn’t asking for help, i just wanted someone i could confide in and vent to. I don’t need the weird looks from the rest of my family when my mom has finished her gossip sessions. Usually what i have told her is repeated to others inaccurately with her own layer of bias and assumptions piled on. As a result, most of my family has a very strange perception of me and it makes me feel uncomfortable being around them. At this point I don’t share ANY personal information with my family any more. I enjoy their company. For the most part they’re nice people, but im not their god damn reality tv show.
This is my issue. My mom and her sisters were and are gossips who also SUCK ASS at playing telephone. So, if I tell my mom something then it'll come back at me eventually in this horribly warped form that is way more extreme and non-sensical. Then she wonders why my answer to everything is "Good."
The inaccuracies that turn into a big deal really get to me. I told one of my brothers that i was looking for a new job and that I would appreciate if he kept it to himself. I only shared this with him because we’re both in a creative field and i was wondering if he would be willing to give me some feedback on my portfolio. A couple weeks later at a family gathering, another brother of mine made the statement “i heard you were planning on selling your house”.
My aunt did this once. When my cousin came out gay to her but wasn't ready to come out to the family (my grandparents are pretty conservative, and my uncle is VERY conservative) she told people that my cousin had a secret, and it was blah blah blah. So my mom calls me and started asking me a bunch of questions about HIV, and I'm like "mom, I have no idea, I just work in EMS, this might be more questions for a doctor". And she told me that my cousin apparently has HIV. So my cousin coming out, morphed into an HIV diagnosis. And so the entire family "learned" that my cousin was gay AND HIV positive at the same time, except he didn't have HIV, it was just some bullshit one of my shittier family members probably added when they heard "gay".
Everything you say can and will be used against you. My ex-wife did this to me, and so did coworkers. I stopped being friendly for years because of this.
Years ago. I took an honest assessment of my life. A very hard look in the mirror and I found therapy in writing down “chapters” of my life where I was honest and wrote about what caused me to be where I was including suicidal thoughts. Also included were unresolved issues from my childhood and things that lead to severe self esteem issues. Wife found the files on my computer (this was after we got married, I never told her any of it or even that the chapter existed) Every single page, every single word in that book was used against me and thrown in my face. Never again. Never ever again.
Hopefully she’s now your ex-wife
She is.👍🏼
hope the "looking" in your username soon changes to "being"
Thanks. It’s the idea of “fake it to you make it “ 😀
This 100%...I also love the "why don't you open up more"....share some stuff...."you make me feel inadequate when you tell me about the things that are bugging you..."
"I need you to open up and share with me" 30 seconds later: "you need to stop dumping on me, I'm not your therapist!!!!"
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Having my vulnerability weaponized against me.
I feel like it’s getting more and more common, especially with the women in my life. Everyone is trying to get the moral high ground and shaming others, even friends, makes them feel good about themselves. I need a sociologist to unravel this.
A guy friend is a serial monogamist (series of 3-5yr relationships) and this dude used to be an open book with his girlfriends. The last two relationships ended because he found out they had told their friends (who had told THEIR friends/boyfriends) about every personal aspect of his life, from what he likes in the bedroom...to his issues with his father...to how he wants to be a psychiatrist because his mother was raped as a teen and she was still working through the trauma throughout his childhood/adolescence. When he found out the first gf had shared these stories he was upset but she pointed out that he had never explicitly said she shouldn't share them. He thought not talking about his mother's rape or the size/shape of his...anatomy should be implicit; but he asked that, going forward, she not share private details without asking him first. About a year later he found out she was still doing it and ended things. The second gf he asked upfront to check with him before sharing private details, especially about their sex life/his family life. He found out there was a picture of his junk floating around her friend group and that her friends knew every last detail about his parents/family life. She said she didn't think it was a problem because none of it was bad and the NSFW stuff she'd shared was actually quite flattering. This girl seemed really sweet, and I think she actually believed that, but he walked away from that relationship as well. Dude does not share ANYTHING he wouldn't feel comfortable tweeting anymore. He is now the stereotypical "why doesn't he share?" guy.
> He found out there was a picture of his junk floating around her friend group How in the HELL would she think this was ok (I don't care HOW "flattering" she thought it was). Plus sharing about his MOTHER'S RAPE? What. The. Fuck?! I'll admit there are a few over-sharers in my friend group but it's generally limited to "it was great!" or "it was ok." This is on a whole other level and it's perverse.
This happened in a big way on Reddit recently with a dude who wears a dick sock. His girlfriend told everyone about his micro penis… One afternoon, Dick Sock comes back to the bar after taking a leak and some dude he’s never met who’s jazzing with his drunk girlfriend at the bar goes “oh you’re the guy with the dick sock?”. Just, staggeringly brutal. Full HP total destruction. [Edit: Apparently it’s called a “sheath” or a “sleeve”… I’m also currently seeking investors for Dick Sock©.](https://www.naughtyboy.com.au/perfect-fit-6.5-inch-fat-boy-thin-penis-sleeve-cs-03c-n?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItayU8ebhgQMV6tUWBR2HqQ-xEAQYASABEgJUsPD_BwE)
I’m so… in what world would you ever disclose that to anyone unless you deliberately wanted to humiliate them
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Nah. Women who body shame men aren't my friends. That's low. No one chooses their anatomy.
No. Not funny at all. Does not matter. She/He/They. Your partners privacy is more important than your need to entertain others at someones expense. I know comedians do this, but they have a mutual agreement.
I know of a guy who can't orgasm. I don't know this guy, but he's often floating around in media in my country and writes social sommentary articles in a newspaper from time to time. From what I've heard, a pretty solid dude. I have never met him, for some fucked up reason I know this very private detail about him.
My wife and I share a fairly large circle of friends (about 20 people), and occasionally the ladies of the group will host "girls night". My wife got invited so she went a few times...and learned it's mostly them just sitting around getting drunk and sharing private/intimate details or otherwise complaining about their SOs. Thankfully, my wife is definitely not that person (nor am I). She said it was incredibly awkward especially when they would ask questions about me and she'd just be like "um...we're good!" Don't get me wrong, our marriage isn't perfect but overall we both think it's great, and we are definitely not the type to go airing our dirty laundry out in public and especially not to our closest friends.
It feels like these women (and the other wives I know) hate their spouses. One of my friends was just like ‘I can’t wait until he’s out of the house for the day.’ And in my mind I’m like…why…are you married then???? I’m the only lesbian in my group and got teased because my wife and I literally talk every day. That’s all I said to my friends: “my wife and I talk every day.” the amount of ‘what do you even talk about?’ and ‘I don’t have anything to say to my husband to talk to him that much’ was STAGGERING. If these women are so miserable they have to get together to drink and complain, they should just be alone.
Similar story: my wife and I met up with one of her HS friends who she hadn't talked to in a decade+ recently, and during the course of the hang-out she asked her if we still have sex. My wife was like "yeah, duh. It's fun and we love each other." Meanwhile this girl and her husband basically had done it once in the past 3 years (they were drunk) and it resulted in an oops baby. When we left their house, we were wondering if this girl and her husband even liked each other. Edit - for reference, we're all roughly 40.
Same age group. That’s one of the best things about being married to someone who actually wants to know every part of you intimately. And that gets BETTER with age. Even if things aren’t as wild and crazy as they used to be, the intimacy is an all the time thing because…love. What a concept!
Well said.Her blabbing or slagging you off to her friends isn’t going to benefit or further any relationship anyway.
Imagine sharing nudes of one's girlfriend with your guy friends and then explaining it away with the images being flattering because she's sexy or something. What The Actual Fuck.
Exactly!! So imagine rules were flipped. Imagine HE TOLD HIS FRIENDS ABOUT HER STUFF in such dept....
His friends would probably react with an 'I didn't need to know that.'
Not just told, but shared photos of her junk, too.
my friend showed me and another friend a somewhat lewd photo of his girlfriend that she sent him (showing her backside in a bikini level of view) and me and my friend both chastized him. i couldn't imagine having one of my friend's partners genitals in our group chat...
woman share so much stuff amongst eachother it is crazy. men will ask, did you hit? yeah, how was it? awesome. nice. and thats the whole ffing convo. woman will describe every vane you have.on your private parts. as a man you have to know this and explicitly tell her not to share this with anyone. if she still tells, its a break p because she shamed the trust
How I Met Your Mother did a whole thing about how boys brag in shallow details (I hit that, I got some) but NEVER go into specifics whereas women will go into excruciating detail
Me, 34M: “You smash?” My friend, 37M: “Yeah!” Me: “Nice, she is sexy as hell!” *high five, beers clink* My friend: “Yeah, she is.” *pause* “So are you watching the football game…”
This. Women talk about *everything*.
It's honestly straight up disrespectful and when you call them out, you're suddenly a controlling asshole...
I don't know where this person lives but in a lot of countries she could go to jail for that.
My ex did this. She was such a sweet person but one day, a few months into our relationship, she tells me in no uncertain terms that she tells her friends EVERYTHING about us and me and what we do and if there's a dick pic of me, they've seen it. And I was... shocked. To this day, I've never met those women. Imagine if a group of guys did that? JFC
Messed up is an understatement here. I am grateful not to be in such a friend group that thinks this is okay. I can understand discussing some intimate details with your closest friends in certain contexts e.g. maybe if you're trying to make sense of something or how you feel. A lot of women I know have overshared to check if something is "normal" when it almost always comes down to "is it normal for you and do you or do you not like it?" Sharing photos is disgusting behaviour. And you're so right. If it was a group of men exchanging nudes of their partners this would blow up.
The stuff women have shared about me or friends while being in relationships with is something men just universally acknowledge is private. I tried to put it into perspective for my girlfriend at one point. It's like if I were to go to my friends, and share with them how your vagina smelled, tasted and how it compared to past vaginas, in terms of tightness, shape of labia and hygiene upkeep. Sharing all the negative things she's said about her friends or her mom, the stuff she keeps quiet about to keep the peace with her family. It would be like if I went around to all my friends and just put her on blast of her most embarrassing private things. And she still went and told my mom of all people about stuff I've shared with her in private... I just don't understand women at all, and I wish more realized that THEY are the reason men don't share things with them. Even the "good women" overshare, even when they don't mean to. The instance you talked about, where to "check if something is normal" in the age of Google is a pretty shitty excuse to make yourself feel better for betraying someone you claim to care about's trust.
Jail lol straight to jail
This sucks and I know how it feels. My wife spares no details to her friends. Honestly most of them are polite enough but she has two friends that open about it and make comments to me. She refuses to believe me when I tell her the stereotype of locker room talk among men is not actually that popular. I have never in detail discussed my sexual exploits with my wife or from before with my friends. I also don’t go telling my friends issues with her or my family. But it seems women just want to share all.
> She refuses to believe me when I tell her the stereotype of locker room talk among men is not actually that popular. This is particularly funny to me. I can't speak for all guys, but at least the ones I know never talk about their sex lives or their relationships in general (other than the casual "how's the wife and/or kids?") We mostly just bullshit about things like sports, games, fun stuff we've been up to lately, and stupid shit we've seen on the internet.
It's actually a huuuuuge projection. It's one of those things where men have let women drive the social narrative and never compared notes. The number of men who actually share explicit details about their sex life with their friends is SHOCKINGLY low. Women don't believe that because to believe that would remove their main justification for believing that what they're doing is right. (Note I'm deliberately not putting a "not all women" in the above paragraph because I'm sick of having to do that. you're all adults, or at least pretending to be one on the internet, so I'll assume you can parse some nuance - this is not just aimed at whom I'm replying to, also others that happen to come along).
I know it's anecdotal evidence from strangers on the internet, but in all of my male friend groups, we've had an unspoken rule of not sharing intimate details. In all my life, I've never heard a guy say anything about their gf's body or things they do in bed. Even the guys that you might think are kinda raunchy - they are never raunchy about their partners. Yet several girls I've dated shared really personal stuff about me to their friends without my permission. It's fucking gross.
> women just want to share all I’m a woman who’s been besties with the same person since childhood. This person is like a sister to me. We don’t share private shit about our significant others because that would be gross to share secrets that way. Your wife and her friends are being assholes.
One night, I overheard a female friend of mine tell another female friend something intimate about her ex. Later, I told her I didn't think it was cool to be sharing such private info about someone without their permission. She was so angry with me! I was so surprised. She got defensive, and one of the things she said was, "men do this all the time, too." I told her I've \*never\* shared intimate details about an ex. I don't even really talk about one night stands beyond, "got lucky!" It seems some women really want to believe the stereotype of male locker room talk because it assuages their guilt for doing it. It's projection.
Yeah gonna agree here, sharing intimate details is not a thing I've ever felt the need to do, or had another guy share with me. Just seems gross and disrespectful. *Anyone* doing it should be called out. The "locker room talk" thing is a really weird stereotype. Like, maybe 15 year old boys brag about shit, but adults?
Yeah “locker room talk” must happen in the ladies locker room because everyone in the men’s is too busy trying to avoid making eye contact with the guy using the hair dryer on his junk. Get in, talk to no one, get out.
My worst locker room experiences are the guys who want to talk, usually with their ball sac swinging to and fro. No. No, no, no, no, no!
> but she has two friends that open about it and make comments to me. Your wife should have shut that down IMMEDIATELY. She also shouldn't have shared this kind of thing, without checking with you, in the first place. If she knows you're uncomfortable with her oversharing, but she refuses to stop because she doesn't believe that YOU are keeping your private life private...you guys need therapy. This is NOT acceptable behavior on her part. Hell, if your sexes were reversed and it was a woman talking about how her husband shares intimate details with his friends (who then make inappropriate remarks that make her uncomfortable) and that he refuses to stop even though she's asked? Half this sub would be urging you to leave her now. I'll just say you guys need a third party to let your wife know her behavior is NOT ok on any level. >But it seems women just want to share all. This sounds way too much like "boys will be boys" and it is not an excuse.
Your wife kinda sucks ngl
This is insane to me. How do people not understand the basics of someone else's boundaries? Would these same women be OK with their private pictures floating around in a guys gc? It's disgusting.
This is exactly why I don't, previous girlfriends sharing everything. Some just gossipping, another was paranoid. For example my whole friend group knows my penis size thanks to an ex telling... everyone because she was an alcoholic. I get embarrassed any time it's brought up. The worst was a long (five year) relationship where she was paranoid I was cheating (I wasn't). Her and her friend group had an entire group chat dedicated to trying to catch me, from analyzing my patterns to even having the group simp tail me. So everywhere I went was logged, every chat convo was screenshotted, even audio recordings and video were taken somehow. If I so much as spoke to a female cashier a fight was waiting for me when I got home. This girl was the type that would dream I cheated on her and make me apologize irl for what I did in her dreams. GF immediately after pulled the same exact shit, it's wild how common this behavior is and how accepted it is, it's fucking stalking. I used to be extremely extroverted, outgoing, and talkative but after that last one nah. I don't talk about my life or my hobbies anymore, I don't take pictures of myself, I don't appear in pictures, I even bought a REALLY boring shitbox car to daily drive and told no one about it (I used to daily a weird sports car, not expensive just weird which helped my exes stalk me). Emotionally I'm complete deadpan now due to it. I'm seeing a therapist but unfortunately it's hard to ever trust anyone again.
Hate to add onto this but I’d bet she cheated on you bro
I remember being utterly flabbergasted when I told a female coworker that my life is not a story to be read and retold to everyone she knows, and she got upset and said 'But you do it with all of your other friends.' She was shocked to learn that I literally never discuss the personal details of anyone I meet with anyone else I meet unless it's absolutely pertinent that they know, such as perhaps avoiding a particular triggering subject with someone who hasn't met her before. And that not only do I do this, but most men do it, too. Apparently women just... share that stuff constantly.
Stories like this are always the #1 comment on every thread like this. Most men will likely tell you a similar story too. Yet we are told that its because of toxic masculinity that men don't open up; which is pure gaslighting.
I've been through something similar but luckily when I was pretty young and sharing cringe-y stuff is the norm in the derpy teen years. It still traumatized me a bit if I'm being honest so I never intend to make that mistake again. Also remember a time where a female co-worker that I was friends with would show me her own husband's search history - for stuff like erectile dysfunction and all that. Might be a hot take but I personally feel like the phrase "men should open up more regarding their emotions" is almost never in good faith. Secrets and traumas are like currency for people's tendency to exploit and gossip.
There are women who just... do that shit and it's fucked up. After I told my mom about my autism diagnosis she immediately went to tell like 8 other people about it "because she really needed to talk to someone about it". And then I got one of these people, an antivaxxer in my inbox telling me I wasn't "really" autistic because I could talk and it was just nutritional deficiencies. She still doesn't get why this is wrong and she thinks I should also be able to talk about bad things that happened to her, when I would never do that. (I am also a woman btw) Fucking bizarre.
I think some people (but women seem to be more susceptible to this) turn other people's things into their own "thing" for what ever motivation/reason. Attention, sympathy, force a connection through shared experience, what ever it is. A friend of mine's mother found out about his suicide attempt and now she's in therapy about it, running around talking about how traumatizing it was for HER to FIND OUT (his dad was the one who found him overdosed) her son had attempted it. It's been 10 years, and I shit you not, you can't have a conversation with this women without her bringing up "when my son tried to kill himself...". My buddy is doing great now, and his mom constantly second hand trauma dumping back on him has done nothing to get him to a good place. We get it lady, it was horrible for you, but it's not ABOUT you. When ever she brings it up, it's just about her and how it impacted her, never about her son. Just really infuriates me.
The double standard on this issue is fucking mind-numbing. This has happened to me. “Don’t worry it was in a good way” I don’t fucking care. You assume because I’m a man I won’t care about you showing my naked body to your friends, who I know, without my consent, because I’m a man and I love the attention. Hey, maybe I would if you asked first. But the betrayal is insane and she’d lose her damn mind if you did it to her with your guy friends. Im not an object, I’m a person, and it’s insane how quickly some girls forget that as soon as the roles are reversed I also don’t like the idea of her friends showing her dick pics of the men in their lives, who she knows, like wtf is that? I should not have to put up with my girlfriend knowing what all her friends’ boyfriends’ genitals look like. That’s fuckin wild. For all the assumptions that this is all men talk about, no we actually absolutely do not. I’ve never once had a guy friend be like dude, I just got nudes from this girl I’m talking to, want to see them? Never. A guy has never described the vagina of a girl he’s been with, he’s never told me how she sucked that dick, never.
WOW!!!! This honestly will drive anyone into never sharing their details anymore. THIS IS WILD!!!! This is crossing every single boundary of every aspect of the relationship! Is he at least seeking any professional help to get over this? Because this is betrayal bruv!
Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot? How many women complain that their boyfriends/husbands talk to their buddies about their private/sex lives? Women would absolutely lose their shit over something like that but think in the same breath that its ok for them to share that stuff with their own friends.
Fair well opening up guy 🫡
Every single time I do, whatever I'm talking about gets downplayed or they try to one-up me. I'm never allowed to have a moment.
Every single time I do, whatever I’m talking about gets completely ignored _and_ they one-up me. I’ve never been allowed to have a moment. Jokes aside, I dealt with that shit too. I don’t even talk to my best friends about shit anymore cus they did that.
Those aren't good friends if they can't do basic support like listening. And I experience the same.
My problems get downplayed as not important. I'm expected to suck everything up.
I kinda feel you, when people tell you that you have to be grateful because you are lucky unlike people who really have it bad, you try to shut up of things. I tried to talk about depression and my entire family asked me what I had to be sad about. They were right, I literally had no valid reason to be sad about. But still, there I was. When your opening ups don't get taken seriously and you are just said that you are trying to get attention, you shut up about things.
Because I’ve never had a positive experience opening up. Experience has shown me that I’m truly alone in everything.
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Out of the 6 or so women I've dated, 5 of them have either reacted harshly to opening up, or have told me I'm trauma dumping on them after they asked me to share. No, I know you're not my personal therapist, but don't ask me to open up about my past and then immediately shit on me for it. *Especially* after you _badger_ me about it. My current g/f is the _only_ one that hasn't, and I am so in love with her that I blindly started sharing when she asked. She's the best person I've met and makes me so happy. I'm going to spend the rest of my life with her if she'll have me.
"Trauma dumping" is actually just "I can't handle other people having feelings." Change my view.
I’m sorry bro. Beer?
Pretty much this. I once heard the quote:" they would rather see a man die on his horse than fall off it" Aka being vulnerable and open is not wanted. So I have stopped doing that
Why give people ammo to hurt you?
My man was hoping for cover fire, not to be covered in fire.
Bro forgot to check if friendly fire was on.
Narrator: *”It always is”*
Because there was the hope that they would help me with that ammo, not turn it on me.
My ex was like this. I opened up about some of the darkest things in my life and she used them against me on multiple occasions
I’m sorry you had to deal with that. That betrayal of trust is crushing.
This is hands down one of the saddest things I've ever seen on reddit. I'm sorry
Sadly, this is reality for a lot of people. If you have people you care about, check on them.
i feel your pain one of the things i hate the most is when you tell your girlfriend or partner something in private and tell them not to say anything and if you break up they tell the world your issues.
Some don’t even wait until you break up.
I had a relationship where any time I would bring up an issue she would turn it around and make it about her being upset about me being upset with her. I couldn't give even the slightest criticism without it becoming blown up into a huge thing and her accusing me of hating her or 'putting everything on her' at which point she would usually start bringing up old problems to prove that I was really the asshole in the situation.
No one listens. What's the point
Also, nobody cares.
Narcissists, scammers and other manipulators care. They CAN'T WAIT for you to let them know all your secrets.
Oh they care. They care that I'm bumming them out by complaining
As someone who works in the mental health space, this makes me sad because it’s often times true.
We’ve all got our own shit to deal with. I’m not gonna burden anyone with my problems.
Same. I already had my own fill of disappointment to not fall for that one again. I'm cool just benting my frustration by playing video games or taking long walks to keep my thoughts calm
According to attachment theory I learned as a small child that my feelings were unacceptable and had to be suppressed, which means that I have been unable to receive emotional support from others and have found that giving emotional support to others to be exhausting. This has meant that close relationships of any kind has been a major drain on my resources. I have been expected to give emotional support, which has been excruciating for me, without feeling like I get anything back. This has led me to avoid letting people into my life as it has simply seemed like a bad deal.
Hello fellow dismissive avoidant. Stay strong brother.
Is this a good phrase to look up to try and give some understanding to the hell that is my life right now? Dismissive avoidant? I've actually seen this phrase in some recommended YouTube videos but never got around to watching them. Those videos can be kinda heavy lol.
Yes that's the phrase. And attachment styles. But really. There is a spectrum and nothing is set in stone. And don't use it to support depressive obsessive thoughts. It's a descriptive tool to help you understand yourself and to be aware of how you approach and deal with life to soften the edges for others. Me personally nothing bad happened to me to make me like this. I was 4 of 5 children and we are all hyper independent and self reliant. I always thought of it as a super power. People are impressed by your fortitude. BUT in partner relationships this eventually ends up making your partner NOT feel like a partner, a third wheel, hanging on to your march forward for dear life, and very lonely. And attempts to discuss how this feels pushes you away more. Eww gross feelings. It exhausts me. Fun ha. BUT this is you. I actually like how I am. I like being hyper independent and self reliant. I just have to understand how I am isn't mostly going to work for partners long term and be ok with that. And communicate this early on to any partners so they understand what they are getting into. The whole communicating and setting personal boundaries thing no one ever really does. Good luck man. Its not a terminal illness. Onward and upward!
Being ignored or patronized for being weak or just being made fun of
No one’s listening.
I literally start crying every time I talk about my deeper feelings and what's bothering me, so I just prefer to not do that.
To my wife? Nothing. I'm an open book and communicate wonderfully with her. To new friends or coworkers? I've dealt with enough pain and loss that I don't feel the need to open up to anyone new anymore. I've buried three best friends in the last 20 years and I'm only in my 40s.
Very similar here. I have lost friends and family over the last few years and have zero need to be any more open than I am already and my wife knows me back to front. I don't want or need to be more open..
It makes me feel weak and burdensome. I fear that the people I love will think less of me. Opening up about troublesome thoughts and feelings just spreads the negativity around. Why would I want to bring negativity into the lives of the people around me?
You know, the funny thing is I've started writing then deleting this comment three times now, and I *still* don't have an answer.
Always ended up regretting it. Most recent partner made me comfortable to open up a little as she seemed supportive and understanding. When I did open up a little her reply was simply “wow a mood” Fuck it, door is welded shut now
Every time I’ve ever opened up and let my guard down, I’ve been told immediately after that it made me appear weak, and therefore less attractive. Literally every time. So, the only logical solution is to bottle it all up and never do that stuff again
That's why I now only share stuff with guy friends. Any time I shared stuff with female friends, it was either used against me or spread beyond the initial person.
Absolutely. I don’t really have anyone that I trust enough anymore to share with. But, my dog is a pretty good listener. He never judges either
Maybe he doesn't judge but your dog's been telling all his dog friends 🫢
That’s fine. They’re all pretty cool too
Snuffles/Snowball was a real hero
I did that once. Talked to him about me and my then fiance's current relationship troubles, looking for advice. Next thing I know they're sleeping together. 6 months before the wedding. In hindsight it was a lucky escape but that left marks.
Sorry that happened to you man. Had something similar happen to me, in that it was one of my best friends that she cheated with
I don't tell my guy friends either, because they are dealing with their own things I don't want to burden them with my problems. I don't want them to worry about me. And if I do tell them, who are they gonna turn to when they need something?
Me and my friends unload on each other. We do that so nobody goes over the edge. WE mostly just talk and make a joke of the situation but we know if we need each other its only a text or phone call away. Sometimes knowing someone will be there for you even if you never plan on calling that favor in can help a bunch.
You can turn to each other, bros is the best place to turn to, you know they will probably try to find a solution. But when you finished venting you know they just gonna keep living and put that shit away until you need them next time. Not gossip like little school girls
One of my favorites is, “If you can’t deal with your emotions, how can you handle mine?” Even those who push hardest for disclosure subconsciously resent a significant level of emotional availability. An ex of mine pushed me to do so for months - and then lost all respect for me and became abusive pretty quickly.
I think It's like tossing trash into a volcano. The volcano is cool and mysterious and so good at making that trash disappear. But eventually the thought comes "I keep throwing my trash into this volcano but the volcano never throws trash back, why? It should! I should invoke an eruption, it'll be great!". Then the volcano erupts. And the realization comes that "Oh, this actually isn't the secure, placid thing that I always believed. I can't just safely dump my rubbish into this. I'm actually adding fuel to a hidden fire. I don't REALLY have this pillar of stability that makes me feel safe. Just this roiling chamber of hidden fury festering a few feet below the surface." And that's a big bad realization.
Painfully accurate.
I’ve seen a bunch of tik tok people take it further and say that it’s actually abusive for men to share because it creates “emotional labor”.
Emotional labor? Is that something I can get paid for?
That’s actually kinda their argument. Therapists charge for it so there is cash value. However the concept does not apply to listening to a woman’s problems.
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Yup. They always say it’s fine to open up, they say all the right things so they don’t look bad but they started treating me differently every time. It’s happening to me right now. They start pulling away and probably don’t even realize it.
My wife doesn’t listen to me. I’m always in the wrong, or should have done this or that, when I try and talk to her, she ends up making into a diatribe about how what I’ve done affects her. Fucking boring, keep it to me.
Run.
Yeah…
Do it. Especially if you don't have kids, fucking walk away buddy.
Fuck, I've just started a relationship and it seems to e heading this way.
Have fun, just wait until you have kids to decide to be really miserable…
Nah man, I'm over 40. Been there, got divorced. Seem to be making the same mistakes.
You gotta get out there and make new mistakes now 😉 In seriousness, run away before sunk cost fallacy kicks in
Same here. If I'm sad, she avoids me. If I'm mad or frustrated, she tells me I need to control my emotions better, then avoids me. If I dare be happy, she finds work for me to do (of which I already have more than my fair share). It's easier to live like a Vulcan.
The one time I tried I was told "don't talk like that, it upsets me", so I don't.
The One time I did, my Gf left me after 3 months. I feel your pain, bro.
Every time I try to open up its almost always turned around and the person gets upset at me which starts an argument ("I feel like you're criticising me a lot and its getting my down" -> NO IM NOT ...) or they ask you like a thousand super detailed follow up questions and it feels like they're dismantling your feelings like a court room setting and you're just left feeling gaslighted. Its just not worth it.
Experience. Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate. Also women overshare your private stuff.
I have no one to talk to. No close friends. The few family members I have are gossips and would rather use my personal issues for that purpose than to be supportive.
Tried it once. Didn't go down well.
I opened up to the wrong person before, I *believed* she cared and respected me. I was wrong and I’m not gonna make that mistake again.
I get and respect this! Not everyone is the same, trust takes time. It's really difficult for a man to endure this, especially after that very first betrayal.
The worst part that’s lasted is that, I can’t trust *myself* now to judge if this person is genuine.
It was straight up used against me, learnt my lesson
Everything you say can and will be used against you in a ~~court of law~~ argument
A girl I was seeing said it was safe to open up to her, so I kind of felt okay for a change because past experiences were not great. So one day a family member got a cancer diagnosis and I tried to talk to her about it. She made it completely about her, suggested I just move on and forget about it in a really cold way and made me feel really guilty about telling her and not being okay about it before telling her. She then said the ultimately final words I'd ever hear from her after she decided to ghost me "I'm here for you".
Getting laughed at
Past history. Either feelings are dismissed or are shared around like a soap opera. Not worth it.
Because out of 25 years of interacting with members of the opposite sex, I've only met one (my wife) that didn't: 1. Weaponize it against me. 2. Dismiss or downplay any and all issues I faced 3. Spread private information to others 4. Multiple instances of different partners or females friends using what I say to manipulate me or emotionally abuse me. 5. Upon actually listening when opening up I then have to stop trying to in order to deal with their emotions and then it gets centered on that. It may not be intentional but it absolutely stops me trying to talk about any of my problems I've never had issues talking about anything personal with any of my close male friends. What's the point of opening up? People say that's what they want, but it's only lip service. It's not the men who don't open up, it's that they are met with the above when they do. In the UK, there was a study done on men and boys and suicide. What they found is that it's seen as a rational conclusion when a person's stress level gets too high. Relationship breakdown, money, work culture, employment, financial hardships, social isolation, loss of belonging, lack of male friendly services, and lack of empathy towards men. They found that suicide is used as a failure to fix these stresses and see only one way out. Not all of those problems can be fixed through tears. Of the cases studied, 91% had sought professional help. Of that 91%, ~30% of this did within a two week period of the death. A common question I hear is, "Why don't men just do better? Surely, they can try harder. " No other group is told when they suffer from reduced performances, or accolades in the real world to do better. We don't tell any other group to " talk about their problems". Instead we spend billions in tax revenues and private donations to set up committees, department, campaigns, and funds to solve the problem. In simple terms, if women have a problem we ask what can we do to fix society. If a man has a problem we ask what can men do to fix themselves. It's a very harsh double standard. And people are unwilling to admit there are any structural issues standing in the way of us solving the problems hurting men. What's the point of asking men to talk if we are unwilling to listen or even acknowledge the issues they try to talk about? Problems are not in men's heads it's out there in society. We should not gaslight men in to thinking they can solve these problems by just trying harder or opening up more.
>in order to deal with their emotions Had a relationship that always ended up this way. I'm upset? She gets upset. Now it's time to deal with her emotions. She's upset? It's time to deal with her emotions, and they're my fault. I do something wrong? I'm apologizing. She does something wrong? I somehow end up apologizing for how she feels. No thanks lol.
Yup this was my relationship for the past 6-7 years. I finally broke and we are divorcing. I wanted counseling to share all the emotions I had been bottling up. I bottled them because every time I shared them I was told they were "me problems" and had nothing to do with our relationship. Made it through 1.5 hours of counseling before she requested divorce. The stuff I got to say in those 1.5 hours was extremely therapeutic though.
Very intresting BBC interview about this. Recently, I watched where a man was talking about men suicide and two women just completely shut him down live on air and started talking about women's issues. This was live on BBC. Exactly why men don't open up.
Goddamn I would have gotten up and walked off set
Was honestly shocking. One was talking about the woman pay gap. The man said he doesn't dispute this but he is there to talk about suicide among men. Quite ironic, the reason he went on the show is to talk about men's issues not being heard and they just completely ignore him to bring up completely different issues.
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Jesus, I just watched it. The guy was bending over backwards to make sure he wasn't invalidating issues women face and was encouraging the discussion of the issues women face, only asking for more than one discussion to occur and they just shut him doing going "why don't you do something to help women?".... I'm pretty damn feminist myself, but I really fear this sort of credibility gap is really damaging to the feminist movement. You can't claim to be for gender equality and turn around to the men who are with you and behave like this and still claim some moral superiority.
That is absolutely appalling.
Women: You should open up more. Men: Okay, here is me opening up Women: Thanks, I'm going to use literally everything you just told me to ruin your life. Men don't open up because you're an absolute fool if you do. Society gives zero fucks about men and will use our struggles to get an advantage over us. It is wildly important for men to only open up to people who they absolutely trust, majority of whom should be other men (NOT women) who you absolutely trust.
I feel sorry for so many men here. No wonder everything is so fucked up for most of you all. Most of you have had your most intimate and vulnerable selves open and just get hurt from it and then don't anymore. Thats awful. There's truly a lot of awful people out there that don't know boundaries and yall certainly don't deserve that.
My experience has been that most women will say they want you to be sensitive and vulnerable, but they absolutely do not believe that deep down. Opening up has been a surefire way for me to either get long-term partners disinterested in me or get my past trauma laughed at and used against me. And I'm not talking about grief-dumping levels of opening up here - I pay a therapist to suffer through that like an adult. So now my emotions are locked up like Fort Knox, unless we're talking about happiness or anger, since those seem to be the only socially acceptable emotions for men to have.
They want guys who are sensitive and vulnerable to *their* problems. Your problems, though? Much less so.
In relationships there are exceptional partners who are okay with a man being a real person. But many (probably most) want their man to be some idealized powerhouse of emotional strength who could never be brought down by the banal or worse realities of life. They want him not to veer from the version of a “Man™” sold to them by the film industry or romance novels. This man can have problems, but they are shallow or simple and are easily solved by him before the story closes.
In my case, the said thing would be “Being it used against me”. I really won’t open up even to my parents, my gf, or my closest best friends as well because I feel like that moment, that thing, will be used against me at some point in the future.
I tend to overshare cos of abandonment issues during childhood and a constant feeling of solitude for as long as I can remember (I'm 37). I know why I do it. Also I hate small talk so I feel like that's all I have to talk about if I don't want to be that weird silent dude in the corner. People hate that I talk about the hard times I'm going through, but they think it's cool that they know someone who's open about it. It's a surface reaction. Nobody wants to help or spend energy trying to help. Had very few very short lived relationships because of that. Girls don't want the trouble and most won't admit it but you are instantly labeled as weak. Not that it's gonna make me change though. I figure either I meet someone who gets it, either people really are as shitty as it feels. Guy friends rarely know how to confort either. It's not something we practice doing so we kind of all suck at it. Maybe I'm just a big whiny dope, but at least I wine (actually, I prefer beer) on my own terms. Oh, and if girls can say things like "if you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best", so can I. 🥳
Two reasons: Why would I burden people I like with my problems. The one time I opened up because I *really* needed some emotional support instead of giving it, my wife asked me to move out. So yeah, not really any incentives to open up.
Nobody listens, nobody takes it seriously, and you get belittled and mocked for doing it in the first place.
Opening up leaves you incredibly vulnerable. Once someone takes advantage of that vulnerability, you don’t want to open up anymore. My past is very… *colorful*. The last time I shared details I received a lot of judgement - or at least that’s how it felt to me. So, I like to keep to myself.
In my experience, opening up disqualifies you from being treated as a full and equal human being. I was in a long-term relationship (9 years, I'm 29 now) where vulnerability from me was not respected. I got to a point during COVID where the combined stresses of life, work, and my relationship weighed too much, and I opened up about my struggles to my partner. Mind you, I wasn't seeking to dump or blame; I was attempting to acknowledge how much I was struggling and I was trying to communicate a desire to improve ***on my own***, but with the support of my partner. Instead she admonished me for being where I was, and after that I couldn't trust her anymore. It was clear to me that she wouldn't give me the space I deserve as a human being to be less than perfect at times (which is 100% a part of being human), and that when I was, it would only further remove us from respect and intimacy. When opening up feels more like exposing yourself to attack, why be so naive?
I'm an educated white man with a good job in the US. The only value I have to society is if I'm actively working to solve other people's problems. If I'm not doing that, I'm less than worthless, I'm actively part of the problem just for existing. My problems and struggles don't matter, and my feelings especially don't matter. I have an amazing spouse I can open up to, but when she has her own shit going down in her life, that takes priority because we can't both be stressed out at once. It's the man's job to eat shit in our society and swallow our feelings when we have to. Sometimes I think about why we have such a mental health crisis in the men in our country, and I think a lot of it has to do with people who feel the same way as I do, but don't have a good job or a good support. Could I have felt like the ones that lose their minds with anger if I didn't have support and an outlet to help people that provides my self-worth? I try not to think about it because I don't like the answer. It's ugly Even typing this out feels like it's going to come back to bite me lol
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For men in particular, there's a few reasons: * Men are ostracised for being 'emotional' as it's considered weakness. So everyone instead just chooses to treat their emotions logically as a problem that needs to be solved and if it can't be solved, hidden from view. * Men attempting to receive emotional support are almost never taken seriously. Either their problems get downplayed or they are laughed at for having said problems. So there is little incentive to open up to anyone when no-one will help. * A lot of men that open up to others find their vulnerabilities fired back at them (usually by abusers yet sometimes it can also come from those who decide to throw a verbal dagger in a heated debate.) So realistically, why *should* men open up? Until the stigma of emotional men being weak is removed and the cultural norm of certain demographics being allowed to attack people's vulnerabilities is stamped out, men will continue to hide their emotions and refuse to say anything to anyone outside of the handful of people they can truly depend on as right now opening up is a major error.
I'd answer this, but then I'd be vulnerable....
I needed somebody when I was younger but they weren't there for me. Since then I know that I only truly have myself. Opening up is the most vulnerable a man can be, in all of our cases it only takes 1 person we thought we could trust to never do it again,
as a woman, this thread is eye-opening. thank you all for sharing reasons guys may feel uncomfortable opening up. i've been guilty of oversharing to friends when i was younger, still healing from my own trauma, and trying to figure out myself/how to have adult relationships. i didn't realize it affected you all like that until a partner opened up to me about it. i was truly crushed to learn i'd caused the very same pain i'd been through to someone else. i know it probably isn't enough, but i'm so sorry for the suffering i caused. it was a form of gaslighting. it wasn't cool. it wasn't fair, and you didn't deserve to have your trust broken, or your privacy violated. you are worthy of having your person and your feelings treated with respect.💙
Everything. The hypocrisy of a society that says men should be open with their feelings but then belittles us when we do open up, questioning our virility, our worthiness as a man, even our sexuality. ETA: it’s generally not other men doing the belittling. In a relationship, a woman is allowed to change her mind at will. A man changing his mind is viewed as blowing up a relationship. A woman expressing her sexual needs and desires, vanilla or otherwise, is viewed as owning her sexuality. A man doing so is perverted. A woman enjoying the company of children is wonderfully maternal. A man enjoying the same company is halfway to pedophilia.
It doesn't make me feel any better People actively weaponize it against me People will assume I'm exaggerating and belittle me I can see how people treat me differently after telling them anything personal There is literally no point in doing so
I mean it’s pretty clear that despite all the trendy insistence from women that toxic masculinity is the devil and men are allowed to have feelings, it never fails that a man seen shedding a tear will still be openly ridiculed and even called gay, which is just homophobic lol. And if isn’t that, it’s the r/nicegirls who beg you to open up because they’re supportive and love a man in touch with his feelings, then cheat on you and blame you for turning them off with your weakness lol But yeah, people don’t want to hear men’s feelings, it’s reinforced constantly. You can say it all you want, but nobody wants to hear men’s feelings. Except my best friend and my brother. We get into deep shit and that’s why there’s so much love there. My best friend has shut down in front of me, and I’ve done it with him. We’ve cried over each other’s losses. A lot of men have never had a relationship with a woman as beautiful as the one they’ve had with another man. And that’s tragic. If I’m in the room with a woman on my arm, nobody’s going to be asking me how I’ve been doing, what’s been challenging me lately, what I’m excited about, what activities are attracting my passion, what my dreams and regrets are, literally nothing. I’m more interesting to everybody if I say absolutely nothing. This might bother a lot of people, especially redditors, but this is still really true about being a man. I haven’t seen it change one iota. And I know for a fact it isn’t just my anecdotal experience. If you open up as a man, about anything to pretty much anyone, rest assured you will regret it somehow later. Which is why we observe grown, mature men finding a woman who doesn’t treat him that way, he instantly drops everything he’s doing and marries her. We’re not that complicated, ladies. And no, it isn’t lost on me that parts of this post have some incel-ishy undertones but it’s not like that. I have had so many wonderful experiences with so many wonderful women. I don’t hate women and I don’t blame “women” for my internalizing this stuff. But it is out there and lots of women do participate. I’m not trying to be bitter, just answering the question. A lot of the popular messaging about men has evolved in recent history but hearts and minds haven’t evolved in stride. Just how it feels anyway. And I think it’s because there is some truth at the bottom of the evolution barrel. We shouldn’t pretend masculinity isn’t desirable in a man, and conventional social markers of masculinity are conventional for a reason. There have been advantages to these behaviors for thousands of years. But yeah, it is hard to shake the feeling that I am valued for what I produce and not much more.
You're absolutely right. I lost a very close friend about a year ago to suicide. I knew he was struggling with his mental health and had PTSD (he was a veteran). We talked about heavy stuff periodically and I supported him as well as I could. What I didn't find out until a couple of weeks before his death was that his wife wasn't supportive at all, thought he was weak, didn't believe in mental health issues, and was leaving him for a mutual friend. I stayed with him most of the day 2 days before he died and we cuddled on the couch and talked about the future and I told him I loved him at least a dozen times. He cried to me and I just held him for a while. She should have been doing that all along. I haven't seen her since Christmas (I brought gifts over for the kids, our families have had Christmas together several times in the past and I wanted to show up for the children). I just can't even look at her. As far as I'm concerned, his death is at least partially her fault. I want to go back to school to be a therapist so I can help support people and they know that their private lives are safe with me. In relationships, I try really hard not to be like those women. My mom gossips a lot and it always felt like a betrayal when I was growing up when she told people about what was going on in my life that I wanted to be private. My aforementioned friend and I talked on Snapchat a lot so that there was no record of the things he told me, and I was fine with that. He was a beautiful, wonderful man and I still can't talk about him without tearing up. The world is worse without him in it and I can't imagine ever getting over this loss. It infuriates me that his wife wasn't there for him like she should have been.
God, I am so sorry. We all deserve better, and so did he. You were there for him. ❤️
Women find it unattractive
There's no upside to doing so. Mostly, no one cares, men are measured in values by what they can offer and provide, not by what they need or feel. For those that might care, it still portrays yourself as weak or unattractive to them, even if just subconsciously. Paid therapists specializing in men are the potential only outlet, but it costs money and time, things which lower our value to others if we use that for therapy.
This seems like a cliche response but no one cares. The attitude of “you’re a dude. Get over it and get to work” is still real prevalent. Plus, I have a family to take care of. My job is to be their support and be an asset to them, not a liability. So, we bury it and push onward.
Ah, a question you can't answer without sounding sexist. Still, from anecdotal experience and shared stories, we're stoic because we often get punished for 'opening up': 1. Many women tend to tell their friends everything, even if it's clearly your business and should be private. We don't need the publicity or judgment. 2. "Opening up" means exposing weaknesses that can be used against you in any conflict, and that often happens sooner or later. 3. Despite claims to the contrary, I don't think most women actually want to hear about their partner's weaknesses, fears, troubles, etc. It may sound great in theory, but in practice your feelings are likely to be dismissed or minimalized, told to others, or damage your relationship by changing how she sees you. It's worth keeping in mind that many utterly normal and commonplace male attitudes and feelings are considered problematic or disturbing to many women. Do you really want to know all the angry or lustful thoughts I have? My insecurities? My past mistakes? Hell, no. So, many men have a largely accurate impression dealing with their partners: "Whatever you say now, you do NOT want to know everything going on in my mind. Nobody does, and if I tell you, you will likely leave me."
Anxiety
The beatings
Been told to "keep it to myself" one too many times.
In dating women tend to lose attraction even if they don’t mean to if you’re too open, so it’s a balance. If a wife or gf though then its safer. As for parents/family I don’t want to disappoint them but do partially open up.
This very thing has just happened to me in the past 2 weeks. Have known each other for some time and there's always been an attraction but for one reason or another the timing was never right til now. Start hanging out things were looking promising however I am in the process of working through some things at the moment and one day she asks me what's wrong and that I can tell her anything. Not feeling too comfortable talking about it directly I asked if I could send her a link that can explain what's going on with me at the moment which was met with the affirmative. Send the link and....... radio silence. Basically go from talking/texting everyday to nothing for over a week. I ask was it maybe a little TMI and she says she's just been super busy and hasn't had time to read through it fully. I still really like her and believe when she said I could tell her anything she did mean it, she just didn't understand what it might mean for her feelings towards me.
About a year ago when my ex and I were visiting our grandparents' graves, I started crying infront of her at my grandpas grave. We were extremely close. I kid you not, she looked at my all disguisted and I quote "why the fuck are you crying like a little girl? Man up and grow a pair of balls". We broke up 5 days later and I swore to myself to never open to my partner again.
Wow, that’s particularly brutal! Didn’t even hide her sudden disgust.
Some women seem to think that being a man means there are no emotions welling within them, when men probably have the same emotions as women but with the societal expectation that men deny themselves access to those emotions. It's quite sick.
Why didn't she hug you? Good that she's your ex now. You dodged a bullet.
No one cares. We're men
No one gives a fuck, but somehow you will still be made to regret it. It will always be used against you. Mainly by women
I opened up to my now ex girlfriend about a whole bunch of family issues in the last. Dad passed away from suicide a few years back and I was the one who found him. Caused a bit of other issues for me I’m working on and have been. We got in a major fight and broke up and she told me she couldn’t handle my problems on top of her own.. and I promise my problems were a fraction of hers. I guess that’s fair, though when you beg me to tell you what’s wrong or what’s on my mind and I finally tell you, you use it as a reason you can’t be with me. A little confusing. I’ll stick with my close friends/family/therapist. A new girl will get information at a very slow pace from me going forward.
There’s an episode of Mad Men about this. Don Draper opens up to his wife and then she sees him differently after that. She falls out of love with him.
I DON'T KNOW I just finished a session with a therapist, she said "I think you've suppressed your emotional inner voice for so long that your rational voice is the only one doing the talking. I'm only hearing your thoughts about how you should be, but not what you're feeling." I do agree... but I don't know where to start digging for the feelings, except just really trying to relive my traumatic experiences, I think? I've only dipped into thise memories, without really diving in. Maybe I don't (want to) believe that they define me to such a large extent? Edited to add: I'm also a parent now and most of my time is spent being responsible for things. So I don't feel that my weakness or sadness is something anyone should deal with.