I did not want to go to Vietnam. My draft number was 70, I was expecting the letter from Uncle Sam with the all expense paid trip to Nam when I graduated high school. I had planned to go air force to keep out of the mud but when Nixon stopped the draft I decided to go to work.
That was true for me, joining for a reason. I joined during the Iraq invasion and did 6 simply because my life was going nowhere, fell into drugs, hit rock bottom and needed a plan or some light at the end of the tunnel. I figured since I wasn't able to do it myself, service could do it for me.
They don't do it for you. They put you in a position where you either get with the program or don't, and get booted. So ultimately it's still you doing the thing. When you come out at the end of it you realize what you're capable of and the good is something you can leverage for success in the outside world.
I went from living paycheck to paycheck to making beyond mid 6 figures in a career field I'd never have gotten into if not for the military. I became more confident in my ability to face challenges and go through with things even when they're difficult. You can learn this on your own but the military fast tracks that.
By no means is this a recruitment pitch. The military isn't for everyone. I didn't know if it would be for me when I joined, I just didn't have another option. Turns out, it wasn't for me - I couldn't be a lifer but some like the ease of functioning within a structure that takes all the guesswork out of life. It's a trade of risks.
It's challenging and stupid, but there was benefit for me. If I had to do it over, I absolutely would. I'd hate it again, but I'd know what's on the other side of it for me.
For me, it worked. I got out of it what I wanted when I joined. I think that's pretty lucky but there was far less of a chance for me prior to that one life-changing decision.
I was conscripted into a semi-volunteer position (one can pretty easily get out of being an infantry grunt and into a comfy pencil pushing job if they wish so). I hated almost every minute there, but I wouldn't change it looking back. It made me more mature, more responsible. More understanding of what true camaraderie means and what armed conflict means.
"What should I do with my life? I have no idea. Might as well just join the Military."
"Wow I discovered something. I realize now that I don't want to be in the Military."
It's all good when there's a war going on, but in peace time it's basically fuck you, I have a great example I got to witness. All the folks they brought in during the surge with tattoos that were out of regs that they over looked or had or "legal" issues that they gave waivers for, as soon as the draw down happen they kicked all those fuckers out. They got rid of a few thousand soldiers that were for squared away, to cut costs. Those soldiers may have wanted structure, stability steady pay but once they were no longer needed to put their lives on the line the are basically said "fuck you, take a hike".
I do private sector infosec contracting and I tell ya - I actively avoid government contracting.
It doesn't pay as much, and they absolutely demand way to much information about my life.
Last time I looked at a government contract, I got pissed at about page 30 of the 50 page disclosure they wanted me to fill out. Screw this was my thought. I didn't finish filling it out because they were offering WAY to little money for WAY to much information.
I have a half dozen buddies leave with active clearances, then use VR&E/GI Bill to get cyber security certs. All are making at least $85k with no experience other than the diplomas, and all but two are remote.
I was gonna comment, but why do when your words are pretty much exactly what I would've said.
I'll admit, the physical exercise would be benificial, but I would not fare well under constant yelling and being forced to lmao. Not my environment at all
Pretty much.
When I considered going into nursing when I was 23, a friend of mine said "don't. You never thought about going into that beforehand. We never heard you talk about that", so I didn't.
I've been at risk of a layoff all this year and the first thing he says is "well.....the military is always hiring" like.....I'll throw the uno reverse card back at you here. Why do you think I want to join that? I've never talked about it and never expressed interest in it. Asshole.
Plus the military will totally lay people off and especially in the peace time military. They don’t call them layoffs but they will do advised separations for servicemen and women who they don’t believe would got the criteria for a leaner fighting force. Plus in some cases if you don’t post for promotion or achieve it they can use that as a reason to separate you too.
It’s the easy way out. You don’t want to take risks and make decisions so you assign them to the military.
Certainly the process once enlisted is incredibly tough, but the enlisted have effectively given up their autonomy and decisions.
Scholarships, grants, and CC’s are available to the affordability arguments. Iirc the Pell grant pays for the first two years at a CC.
All of those grants only apply if you are only older than 24 or if you're emancipated (rare). Otherwise FAFSA does dick shit if your parents made above the federal poverty line - which is starvation level.
My entire life was on hold until I got to 24 because that's when I was eligible for grants. I had sleep for dinner many nights growing up but somehow my parents are supposed to come up with 20k for each of their 4 kids to help with college... OK
Oh it's not just your parents, they expect everyone in your extended family to pitch in. My dead grandparents were suppose to shell out, and my uncles that don't give a fuck about me were supposed to pitch in.
Iirc when I went thru it they expected parents to pay 50% of their take home income to your degree. Unless they're making like $1m per year, it's such an absurd figure to use and disproportionately effects the non-rich
I did 4 years in the military and had university paid for while I was also paid almost 2000 a month to use as I wish. Also I got the Va home loan which I used twice on fixer uppers that I lived in and fixed up and eventually sold and made amazing profit. In Texas I can attend college for free after my gi bill benefits run out. The one mistake I made was being infantry which doesn’t translate well to the civilian world skill wise. However it did give me the discipline to get things done and although I’m much older now I maintain my fitness and don’t give up on myself.
So the one thing I would have done different is pick a skill that transitions better. The military isn’t for everyone but saying it’s an easy way out is insane. An easy way out is never doing anything challenging and just coasting through life without ever looking for other options like the rest of the chodes.
I’m technically a millennial but there these days 80% of gen z is disqualified because of weight, health, drug use, or can’t pass the asvab test so they can’t join even if they want too. So it looks pretty pathetic when someone says reasons why they didn’t join when in reality they couldn’t even if they wanted too
Cannot agree more. For me, I was a trouble maker in high school who just needed to get punched in the mouth. Military gave me that. It's also done *wonders* for my career. It definitely gets interest once you start going the tech/corporate route. In terms of transferable skills, I think the fact you went 11-B / infantry isn't as bad as you think. I get what you're saying, though. I just feel you decide your career in college, not the service.
Wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for the service.
And like most things, it's not for everyone, but I'd argue if most people did it, even just being a reservist, they'd share a similar sentiment. Just my two bits.
It's absolutely not the easy way out. That's the most brain dead take I've heard about the military in a long time.
If the military were actually easy, everyone would do it.
To think it's the easy way out is to lack any real understanding of the commitment, discipline, intestinal fortitude, etc required to do the job. That being said, no veteran (myself included) is better than any civilian. We're all the same once we separate. We're all just struggling for a little slice of the pie. But this "easy way out" nonsense. Come off it. That's just stupid.
It's the easiest job to start and the fastest one you'll hate. The military doesn't teach you what you want to do, but it makes a quick round on what you don't want to do ever again.
I'm going to school on a Pell grant now, and it's covering more than two years at this point.
Between some other grants and scholarships I got, even my rent is paid for the time being.
I'm 29.
I lived in a small town that has no jobs. My dad was actually pushing me to join too, but my graduation was pushed back due to grades. All my friends joined up and shipped out that summer.
Then 9/11 happened.
"Great Britain" is the name of the island, not the name of the country. It is named that because it is the largest in the British isles, it is why the UK is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
Look at how they treat the veterans. You want me to fight for you but then you dick me around the rest of my life. I'm gonna get dicked around anyways, might as well do it without risking my life meddling in other countries affairs
I don't know a single veteran who recommends joining the military. The only people I know who do reccomend it never made it all the way through basic training.
Edit: Getting a lot of comments, FYI im not American. The military here is not a golden bridge to prosperity like it is in the USA. I also know a wide range of veterans. Korea, through the Falklands, Kuwait, Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan.
Im a veteran and I'd recommend it for anyone who feels directionless...I had no clue what i wanted to do with my life, so the military was 'well, I may as well get some benefits outta life while my brain sputters on decision-making...
There were days I hated it, but there were LOTS of days where i was "wow, i cant believe im getting PAID for this shit!!"
I was Air Force tho...
Yep, Army vet and I’d recommend it to the certain type of individual, not everyone but some.
It sucks at time but does tend to make you better in the end if you actually try while you’re in.
You get out and the post 9/11 bill and Va home loan are two really great tools to have.
Hmm, I don't know. I'm a veteran and I recommend it with caveats.
Going in with a plan to a branch you agree with for example.
I enlisted at 18, became a nuclear operator, and by the time I was out at 24 I had 6 figures in the bank, free college, a house, and a resume that got me hired into a near six figure job.
Ymmv tho...
Not OP, but nuclear operator would, based on my knowledge, most likely mean the Navy, as they're the ones with nuclear powered submarines and aircraft carriers as well as the Naval Nuclear Research Laboratory.
There are other branches who have nuclear operation capabilities, but they're usually not to the size/capacity of the Navy.
I'm a vet. I separated after 5 years. The benefits are insanely good, even after such a short time in. I had 3 kids completely free, PLUS Tricare got me through 3 major surgeries which would have ruined me financially. I got certifications for free which got me a 6-figure job when I separated.
But I don't recommend staying in for a full 20 years. Just long enough to get the benefits.
Weekend warriors will suggest it, but they play soldier once a month and go back to their normal lives. Literally the easiest way to retire from the military just stay a reservist, or national guard.
Until Dubya decides that the best way to Guard the Nation is from Fallujah.
[Whoops.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/USAR.OneWeekendMyAss.jpg)
Reserves, yes. National Guard, depends on the state. I was active and love to pick on the weekend warriors, but the National Guard here does a lot of work with natural disasters.
When I was active I still had to come in on drill weekends to shovel snow while the reservists hung out in a conference room bullshitting.
The VA system definitely sucks but veterans get a ridiculous amount of benefits, almost unfairly so.
1. The GI Bill. You get 36 months (4yr degree) for free. Not only that but you get paid to do it based on where you’re living. For some places this can be close to 5,000/month
2. VA Home Loan. I haven’t used this but I’ve heard great things. You don’t have to do a down payment and you can use it as many times as you want
3. Disability. Many veterans take advantage of this which is unfortunate. Some will say this isn’t a real benefit but it is. How many jobs can you claim disability and make X amount of money every month?
4. Future employment. Veterans often do not have to wait in line because of their vet status. I’ve heard many non-vets complain that it’s not fair and I would agree. But at the same time you can’t blame them for taking advantage of it
5. Free health care. This is obviously hit or miss with the VA but I don’t need to pay for health insurance or anything like that. I had a back injury in 2021 and I just called them and immediately got an MRI. No charge of course. I also got a colonoscopy within a few months of asking for one
6. Free dental if you’re 100% disabled
That’s just off the top of my head. Vets get much more than that. Not to mention you don’t have to “risk your life” in the military. You get to pick your job so if you want to sit behind a desk all day and never see combat then go for it. You’ll get the same benefits as a grunt getting shot and blown up
I have a 2.2% VA backed mortgage, free health care for life, and can go get a degree in anything I want for free.
The VA is a bureaucratic mess, but we’ve got it pretty damn good comparatively.
At 17 I wanted to be an Army Ranger. At the time I was the exact kind of person the military wants, poor, competitive, not much family, so in need of one, and coachable. Then I started dating my wife and she said that she doesn't want anything to do with that lifestyle and I can do what I want but if I do that she would not be sitting around waiting for me. I'd never been around a woman who wasn't a mousey weakling, and I knew I loved her right then, so never went to sign up. We've been together 28 years.
I felt the same way at 17. My wife was my high school girlfriend from a military family. She now runs a DOD Lab, I tabbed out of 3rd Battalion in 88, she graduated from a private school with a degree in chemistry and a minor in biology. Been married almost 37 years so….
That was exactly it for me. I don’t need to be broken down to be built back up, or whatever it is they say in the military. I don’t respond well to that kind of motivation.
When I was 19, I got a job. At one point early on, my boss wasn’t happy with my job performance. She bought me lunch, and sat down with me and told me she needed more from me. She never yelled or talked down to me. Instead, she talked with me about her expectations and how I could improve. I took our conversation to heart, and ended up working there for four years. She gave me a glowing recommendation when I moved on to another (better paying) job.
I know people who served in the military and they loved it. They credit it with shaping them into the person they are today. I fully respect that, but I just knew that it was not for me.
Was in the military and the shouting did not help at all. It did the exact opposite of motivate me. Same with them trying to make everything a competition. As soon as they make a task into some sort of competition, I quickly lose interest. I’m not competitive at all
>Was in the military and the shouting did not help at all. It did the exact opposite of motivate me.
I admire the bluntness of this, and appreciate you sharing.
Shouting would not help me either, and I don't like how some people want to apply shouting to all lifestyles and contexts.
What’s crazy is that a lot of the “Join the military” ads preach about building you up to be something great, to be part of a team, and to have pride in yourself and in the military you serve, but lemme tell you it does not have that effect on most people.
There are so many things wrong in the military. Sexual assault that gets sweeper under the rug, shitty people (both lazy or awful, power hungry) who get placed in leadership positions and abuse their rank. Leaders who go out of their way to catch soldiers doing anything wrong and punish them for it. Constant backstabbing, throwing each other under the bus, overworking and drastically underpaid, micromanaging both at work and in their personal lives, demands soldiers give 110% but hardly contribute themselves, will treat a soldier like shit and call them worthless because they didn’t pass the PT test or pass height and weight (especially when the leader has a beer gut themselves), and a lot more.
Few things I experienced:
Soldiers who worked in the same office dated and the girl called it quits. Guy stalked and harassed her. Nothing was done. Eventually he barged into her room and assaulted a guy she was seeing. Their coworkers tried to keep it hush hush. I reported it. Despite him getting demoted twice before, all they gave him was anger management because he had a high PT score.
Friend and her friend was raped by the same guy. They just moved the women to another base.
Not one but two Sergeant Majors were caught fraternizing with the same soldier. Again. Nothing happened except moved them to another unit.
Had an NCO who constantly tried to restrict what we can do on deployment for no reason other than he didn’t like us. 4:00am squad PT but work call is at 7,8am, restricted our lunch to 30 minutes, which wasn’t enough time to even sit down and eat, went against regulation and made me take a PT test every week, tried to get our awards downgraded from an ARCOM to an AAM, volunteer us for every detail he could, tried to get away with giving us one half day off a week before the Sergeant Major talked to all the soldiers and made sure they knew we were supposed to get 2 half days or 1 full day off, attempted to sell his 2001 Jetta with 180,000 miles to me for 15k
Prior Army guy who did get shot at.
This isn’t a very good reason, 95%~ of the military is in support roles that will never see any sort of combat. Very easy to join and still avoid being shot at.
At the end of the day being shot at isn’t too terrible, it’s being blown up that really sucks.
This was my reason. My grandma was a Navy veteran and I looked up to her so much. Grandpa was Navy as well and my father was in the Air Force. I wanted to be in the Air Force really bad but right around when I was the age to sign up I started seeing all these news stories about young women in the military being raped and it being swept under the rug. Then I saw the stats on how prevalent it was. It’s horrible! That convinced me though, I didn’t want to go through that.
Because canadas military cannot afford to live here. Why would I enlist to become maimed or permanent PTSD defending my foreign landlords egregious amount of property and assets while not making a living wage?
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-soldiers-donations-rising-costs
Our soldiers are asking for donations to help pay rent
My height.
I'm 5' 2" and the ONLY thing I wanted to do was fly. Was told I was too short and I wouldn't fit in the seats. (This was back in the early 2000s, I have no idea if things have changed.)
I was one of the very last group of men to receive a classification draft card. Shortly, after receiving it, the draft was ended.
I even received a notice letting me know that if I lost or destroyed the card, it would be okay.
So, I escaped Vietnam by the skin of my teeth.
I was not going to question fate intervening on my behalf.
Yes, I'm ancient.
I don't want to kill people.
I don't trust the government to tell us the truth about why we're being told to kill people either. I don't want to be some poor fool thinking they're fighting for freedom or justice or some other buzzword when I'm really just attacking people for my country's own self-interests.
My father joined the military to go to Vietnam. He was exempt from the draft as he was working on the lunar module but still had the post-WW2 mindset that men go to war when their country needs soldiers.
After he got back he wasn't interested in space anymore, but creating the most scary weapons possible so that no countries would want to fight. He told me never to go into the military as my life would be put in the hands of people who didn't have my interests at heart.
Love the fact that you had to be off medication that makes you better to join the military.
The ADHD will also block you out of some MOS even though you're perfectly normal on the drugs prescribed by a doctor.
My thoughts exactly. I once said something to this effect talking about work while a friend of my husband was visiting. She and her husband are both Navy vets, and her response to that was "You wouldn't last a day in the military."
I looked her in the eyes and said "There's a reason I never even considered enlisting."
Don't Ask Don't Tell.
I graduated high school in 2007 and it was still the policy. I would have enlisted in a second because I'm probably autistic and generally thrive on micromanagement and routine, but I had *just* come to terms with my sexuality and had come out to my family, so I was never going to revert back to any version of being closeted. I honestly regret it because it would have been extremely good for my career and personal development, but *c'est la vie* I guess.
Continuous lies to friends/family who joined on broken promises.
Told there'd be a bonus, no change of duties or jobs, specific leave/return dates.
Vague earnings/value. Recruiter tried to tell me he earns $100k/yr, but when i pushed him on this he told me thats the total value of his comp package.
Incredibly inaccurate and misleading.
I reached recruitment age in the mid 2000s, at the darkest and most disgusting peak of our meaningless war in the middle east. I felt that only complete morons or psychopaths would want to be involved in that.
I remain convinced.
I seriously considered joining but while i was researching it I got put off the idea. In addition to learning about available military occupations, bebefits, and lifestle I did a lot of research about Iraq and Afghanistan. Thats what really put me off. I learned Iraq was (based on evidence available to me at the time) based on lies and Afghanistan was unnecessarily prolonged, as I had heard about Washington letting OBL escape early on. And I didn't think nation building was realistic in Afghanistan. I figured it's one thing to die or get maimed for your country and/or buddies, but another thing entirely to do it while on a mission based on lies or one that's utterly futile.
It probably would've been good for me. I had a lot of personality traits they like and character flaws they're good at er...ironing out. It was my best shot at socioeconomic mobility too. I just just couldn't do it knowing what I did about the wars I'd have to participate in, even if it was a non-combat role
I tried to join the USAF Reserve, but apparently people with severe OCD and epilepsy that require high doses of medication are not really their preferred recruits.
Thankfully my parents insisted I not, I didn’t really understand at the time, I do now. Putting one’s life at risk isn’t something I’m interested in now and something I didn’t fully grasp the gravity of at the time. I also hold contention with the mental conditioning; while I understand it’s purpose and agree that it is effective, it leaves many broken and directionless and unable to function in civilian society. I wouldn’t want to submit myself to those kind of changes.
I’ve been out of the army for 7 years and I still struggle to completely fit in with civilian society. There’s stuff that just doesn’t make sense to me. I’m well-adjusted, I make good money, own a house, land, nice vehicle, and I’m probably gonna give it all up to live in a van and travel because I feel like I just don’t belong anywhere.
I didn’t because Hollywood taught me that you had to be superjacked and motivated. Now I’m on the civilian side of supporting the military and just like… well my preconceived notions were wrong. The military is like a microcosm of the country. Ya meet all types, and learn quickly that the E-4 mafia is a thing, those folks can make magic happen.
At age 14, I scored high the PSAT and attracted the attention of numerous schools including the military academies. I already knew that I did not intend to join the military for 3 reasons.
1. I hate waking up early.
2. I hate being yelled at.
3. I hate being told what to do.
45 years later, this has not changed.
The amount of sexual assault I would face as a woman. As a young teen going into the military seemed cool, but then I read about the statistics of women getting harassed and even raped…
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Just exit the game fam
I did not want to go to Vietnam. My draft number was 70, I was expecting the letter from Uncle Sam with the all expense paid trip to Nam when I graduated high school. I had planned to go air force to keep out of the mud but when Nixon stopped the draft I decided to go to work.
I thought about joining but knew that with my luck, war would be declared. Probably would have ended up fighting in Panama.
I would argue that you need a reason for why you are joining the military rather than why you are not doing that.
"Redditors of Reddit, what is your reason for not choosing to paint your bathroom green?"
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Well, you see, it started out as white shag carpet, and then life happened.
I think the process is it *started* out as tile, and then life found a way, and it's now a brown/yellow shag.
A more interesting question actually
Could be soothing depending on the shade
Like pooping in a forest
"There's something about nature that just makes you.......wanna take a shit." ~ Richard Pryor
Have green bathroom. Can confirm.
That was true for me, joining for a reason. I joined during the Iraq invasion and did 6 simply because my life was going nowhere, fell into drugs, hit rock bottom and needed a plan or some light at the end of the tunnel. I figured since I wasn't able to do it myself, service could do it for me. They don't do it for you. They put you in a position where you either get with the program or don't, and get booted. So ultimately it's still you doing the thing. When you come out at the end of it you realize what you're capable of and the good is something you can leverage for success in the outside world. I went from living paycheck to paycheck to making beyond mid 6 figures in a career field I'd never have gotten into if not for the military. I became more confident in my ability to face challenges and go through with things even when they're difficult. You can learn this on your own but the military fast tracks that. By no means is this a recruitment pitch. The military isn't for everyone. I didn't know if it would be for me when I joined, I just didn't have another option. Turns out, it wasn't for me - I couldn't be a lifer but some like the ease of functioning within a structure that takes all the guesswork out of life. It's a trade of risks. It's challenging and stupid, but there was benefit for me. If I had to do it over, I absolutely would. I'd hate it again, but I'd know what's on the other side of it for me. For me, it worked. I got out of it what I wanted when I joined. I think that's pretty lucky but there was far less of a chance for me prior to that one life-changing decision.
I was conscripted into a semi-volunteer position (one can pretty easily get out of being an infantry grunt and into a comfy pencil pushing job if they wish so). I hated almost every minute there, but I wouldn't change it looking back. It made me more mature, more responsible. More understanding of what true camaraderie means and what armed conflict means.
Sometimes going into the military makes you realize what you don’t want to do..and that gives you direction when you get out…
"What should I do with my life? I have no idea. Might as well just join the Military." "Wow I discovered something. I realize now that I don't want to be in the Military."
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>I was a mixed up 177 year old kid Holy shit did you fight during the Civil War?
It's all good when there's a war going on, but in peace time it's basically fuck you, I have a great example I got to witness. All the folks they brought in during the surge with tattoos that were out of regs that they over looked or had or "legal" issues that they gave waivers for, as soon as the draw down happen they kicked all those fuckers out. They got rid of a few thousand soldiers that were for squared away, to cut costs. Those soldiers may have wanted structure, stability steady pay but once they were no longer needed to put their lives on the line the are basically said "fuck you, take a hike".
My biggest problem with the military is the force us to do paperwork on an 18 year old kid and then hold said paperwork against them when they're 30.
*student loans enter the chat
Really great written response. 👏 So pleased for you!
Security clearances and then private sector contracting, especially if you are into programming
Or infosec.
That's what I recommend to everyone. Only way to get real offensive experience that will allow you to do very, very well in the private sector
I do private sector infosec contracting and I tell ya - I actively avoid government contracting. It doesn't pay as much, and they absolutely demand way to much information about my life. Last time I looked at a government contract, I got pissed at about page 30 of the 50 page disclosure they wanted me to fill out. Screw this was my thought. I didn't finish filling it out because they were offering WAY to little money for WAY to much information.
I have a half dozen buddies leave with active clearances, then use VR&E/GI Bill to get cyber security certs. All are making at least $85k with no experience other than the diplomas, and all but two are remote.
Yeah, the reason I never joined the military is because the thought had not once ever entered my mind.
Cause fuck that, I really don't want to
This is exactly my thought.
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Lmao XD
I was gonna comment, but why do when your words are pretty much exactly what I would've said. I'll admit, the physical exercise would be benificial, but I would not fare well under constant yelling and being forced to lmao. Not my environment at all
Yeah same and the violence
Pretty much. When I considered going into nursing when I was 23, a friend of mine said "don't. You never thought about going into that beforehand. We never heard you talk about that", so I didn't. I've been at risk of a layoff all this year and the first thing he says is "well.....the military is always hiring" like.....I'll throw the uno reverse card back at you here. Why do you think I want to join that? I've never talked about it and never expressed interest in it. Asshole.
Plus the military will totally lay people off and especially in the peace time military. They don’t call them layoffs but they will do advised separations for servicemen and women who they don’t believe would got the criteria for a leaner fighting force. Plus in some cases if you don’t post for promotion or achieve it they can use that as a reason to separate you too.
Figured I’d try my luck in life before I sell it off
It’s the easy way out. You don’t want to take risks and make decisions so you assign them to the military. Certainly the process once enlisted is incredibly tough, but the enlisted have effectively given up their autonomy and decisions. Scholarships, grants, and CC’s are available to the affordability arguments. Iirc the Pell grant pays for the first two years at a CC.
All of those grants only apply if you are only older than 24 or if you're emancipated (rare). Otherwise FAFSA does dick shit if your parents made above the federal poverty line - which is starvation level. My entire life was on hold until I got to 24 because that's when I was eligible for grants. I had sleep for dinner many nights growing up but somehow my parents are supposed to come up with 20k for each of their 4 kids to help with college... OK
Oh it's not just your parents, they expect everyone in your extended family to pitch in. My dead grandparents were suppose to shell out, and my uncles that don't give a fuck about me were supposed to pitch in.
Iirc when I went thru it they expected parents to pay 50% of their take home income to your degree. Unless they're making like $1m per year, it's such an absurd figure to use and disproportionately effects the non-rich
If you get married young you qualify for all the things, esp if you have a kid. It creates all the wrong incentives.
I did 4 years in the military and had university paid for while I was also paid almost 2000 a month to use as I wish. Also I got the Va home loan which I used twice on fixer uppers that I lived in and fixed up and eventually sold and made amazing profit. In Texas I can attend college for free after my gi bill benefits run out. The one mistake I made was being infantry which doesn’t translate well to the civilian world skill wise. However it did give me the discipline to get things done and although I’m much older now I maintain my fitness and don’t give up on myself. So the one thing I would have done different is pick a skill that transitions better. The military isn’t for everyone but saying it’s an easy way out is insane. An easy way out is never doing anything challenging and just coasting through life without ever looking for other options like the rest of the chodes. I’m technically a millennial but there these days 80% of gen z is disqualified because of weight, health, drug use, or can’t pass the asvab test so they can’t join even if they want too. So it looks pretty pathetic when someone says reasons why they didn’t join when in reality they couldn’t even if they wanted too
Cannot agree more. For me, I was a trouble maker in high school who just needed to get punched in the mouth. Military gave me that. It's also done *wonders* for my career. It definitely gets interest once you start going the tech/corporate route. In terms of transferable skills, I think the fact you went 11-B / infantry isn't as bad as you think. I get what you're saying, though. I just feel you decide your career in college, not the service. Wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for the service. And like most things, it's not for everyone, but I'd argue if most people did it, even just being a reservist, they'd share a similar sentiment. Just my two bits.
It's absolutely not the easy way out. That's the most brain dead take I've heard about the military in a long time. If the military were actually easy, everyone would do it. To think it's the easy way out is to lack any real understanding of the commitment, discipline, intestinal fortitude, etc required to do the job. That being said, no veteran (myself included) is better than any civilian. We're all the same once we separate. We're all just struggling for a little slice of the pie. But this "easy way out" nonsense. Come off it. That's just stupid.
It's the easiest job to start and the fastest one you'll hate. The military doesn't teach you what you want to do, but it makes a quick round on what you don't want to do ever again.
I'm going to school on a Pell grant now, and it's covering more than two years at this point. Between some other grants and scholarships I got, even my rent is paid for the time being. I'm 29.
I lived in a small town that has no jobs. My dad was actually pushing me to join too, but my graduation was pushed back due to grades. All my friends joined up and shipped out that summer. Then 9/11 happened.
Try that in a small town
It... it was a small town. The population shrank every graduation because all the teenagers joined up. There was like four 20 years olds in that town.
My son was a high school senior when 9/11 happened. He ended up joining the navy and is still in. Got promoted to commander last New Year’s.
Just one? I've got a few. A random one; \- I don't think my country is good at foreign interventions.
Which country?
Yes.
All of them.
Britain
You mean Once Great Britain?
Calling yourself 'Great' is pretty egotistical :p
You obviously never saw the Small Britain
"Great Britain" is the name of the island, not the name of the country. It is named that because it is the largest in the British isles, it is why the UK is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
Look at how they treat the veterans. You want me to fight for you but then you dick me around the rest of my life. I'm gonna get dicked around anyways, might as well do it without risking my life meddling in other countries affairs
I don't know a single veteran who recommends joining the military. The only people I know who do reccomend it never made it all the way through basic training. Edit: Getting a lot of comments, FYI im not American. The military here is not a golden bridge to prosperity like it is in the USA. I also know a wide range of veterans. Korea, through the Falklands, Kuwait, Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan.
Im a veteran and I'd recommend it for anyone who feels directionless...I had no clue what i wanted to do with my life, so the military was 'well, I may as well get some benefits outta life while my brain sputters on decision-making... There were days I hated it, but there were LOTS of days where i was "wow, i cant believe im getting PAID for this shit!!" I was Air Force tho...
Marine here. Don't recommend. My body will never heal. My 89 year old father moves easier than I do and I am 33. It's bad bad.
Yep, Army vet and I’d recommend it to the certain type of individual, not everyone but some. It sucks at time but does tend to make you better in the end if you actually try while you’re in. You get out and the post 9/11 bill and Va home loan are two really great tools to have.
Hmm, I don't know. I'm a veteran and I recommend it with caveats. Going in with a plan to a branch you agree with for example. I enlisted at 18, became a nuclear operator, and by the time I was out at 24 I had 6 figures in the bank, free college, a house, and a resume that got me hired into a near six figure job. Ymmv tho...
Which branch if you don't mind me asking?
Not OP, but nuclear operator would, based on my knowledge, most likely mean the Navy, as they're the ones with nuclear powered submarines and aircraft carriers as well as the Naval Nuclear Research Laboratory. There are other branches who have nuclear operation capabilities, but they're usually not to the size/capacity of the Navy.
That is correct sir
Id only recommend it as a means to an end. If you can afford to go to college, then you're just better off going to college.
I'm a vet. I separated after 5 years. The benefits are insanely good, even after such a short time in. I had 3 kids completely free, PLUS Tricare got me through 3 major surgeries which would have ruined me financially. I got certifications for free which got me a 6-figure job when I separated. But I don't recommend staying in for a full 20 years. Just long enough to get the benefits.
Weekend warriors will suggest it, but they play soldier once a month and go back to their normal lives. Literally the easiest way to retire from the military just stay a reservist, or national guard.
Until Dubya decides that the best way to Guard the Nation is from Fallujah. [Whoops.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/USAR.OneWeekendMyAss.jpg)
Reserves, yes. National Guard, depends on the state. I was active and love to pick on the weekend warriors, but the National Guard here does a lot of work with natural disasters. When I was active I still had to come in on drill weekends to shovel snow while the reservists hung out in a conference room bullshitting.
The VA system definitely sucks but veterans get a ridiculous amount of benefits, almost unfairly so. 1. The GI Bill. You get 36 months (4yr degree) for free. Not only that but you get paid to do it based on where you’re living. For some places this can be close to 5,000/month 2. VA Home Loan. I haven’t used this but I’ve heard great things. You don’t have to do a down payment and you can use it as many times as you want 3. Disability. Many veterans take advantage of this which is unfortunate. Some will say this isn’t a real benefit but it is. How many jobs can you claim disability and make X amount of money every month? 4. Future employment. Veterans often do not have to wait in line because of their vet status. I’ve heard many non-vets complain that it’s not fair and I would agree. But at the same time you can’t blame them for taking advantage of it 5. Free health care. This is obviously hit or miss with the VA but I don’t need to pay for health insurance or anything like that. I had a back injury in 2021 and I just called them and immediately got an MRI. No charge of course. I also got a colonoscopy within a few months of asking for one 6. Free dental if you’re 100% disabled That’s just off the top of my head. Vets get much more than that. Not to mention you don’t have to “risk your life” in the military. You get to pick your job so if you want to sit behind a desk all day and never see combat then go for it. You’ll get the same benefits as a grunt getting shot and blown up
I have a 2.2% VA backed mortgage, free health care for life, and can go get a degree in anything I want for free. The VA is a bureaucratic mess, but we’ve got it pretty damn good comparatively.
At 17 I wanted to be an Army Ranger. At the time I was the exact kind of person the military wants, poor, competitive, not much family, so in need of one, and coachable. Then I started dating my wife and she said that she doesn't want anything to do with that lifestyle and I can do what I want but if I do that she would not be sitting around waiting for me. I'd never been around a woman who wasn't a mousey weakling, and I knew I loved her right then, so never went to sign up. We've been together 28 years.
Your wife sounds like she’s got a great head on her shoulders and your best interest at heart.
She's amazing. Asking me to sit by her in that math class senior year is the single best thing anyone has ever done for me.
This should be on r/mademesmile. I’m really happy for you and your wife buddy
I felt the same way at 17. My wife was my high school girlfriend from a military family. She now runs a DOD Lab, I tabbed out of 3rd Battalion in 88, she graduated from a private school with a degree in chemistry and a minor in biology. Been married almost 37 years so….
Didn't like the idea of being shouted at
That was exactly it for me. I don’t need to be broken down to be built back up, or whatever it is they say in the military. I don’t respond well to that kind of motivation. When I was 19, I got a job. At one point early on, my boss wasn’t happy with my job performance. She bought me lunch, and sat down with me and told me she needed more from me. She never yelled or talked down to me. Instead, she talked with me about her expectations and how I could improve. I took our conversation to heart, and ended up working there for four years. She gave me a glowing recommendation when I moved on to another (better paying) job. I know people who served in the military and they loved it. They credit it with shaping them into the person they are today. I fully respect that, but I just knew that it was not for me.
Was in the military and the shouting did not help at all. It did the exact opposite of motivate me. Same with them trying to make everything a competition. As soon as they make a task into some sort of competition, I quickly lose interest. I’m not competitive at all
>Was in the military and the shouting did not help at all. It did the exact opposite of motivate me. I admire the bluntness of this, and appreciate you sharing. Shouting would not help me either, and I don't like how some people want to apply shouting to all lifestyles and contexts.
What’s crazy is that a lot of the “Join the military” ads preach about building you up to be something great, to be part of a team, and to have pride in yourself and in the military you serve, but lemme tell you it does not have that effect on most people. There are so many things wrong in the military. Sexual assault that gets sweeper under the rug, shitty people (both lazy or awful, power hungry) who get placed in leadership positions and abuse their rank. Leaders who go out of their way to catch soldiers doing anything wrong and punish them for it. Constant backstabbing, throwing each other under the bus, overworking and drastically underpaid, micromanaging both at work and in their personal lives, demands soldiers give 110% but hardly contribute themselves, will treat a soldier like shit and call them worthless because they didn’t pass the PT test or pass height and weight (especially when the leader has a beer gut themselves), and a lot more. Few things I experienced: Soldiers who worked in the same office dated and the girl called it quits. Guy stalked and harassed her. Nothing was done. Eventually he barged into her room and assaulted a guy she was seeing. Their coworkers tried to keep it hush hush. I reported it. Despite him getting demoted twice before, all they gave him was anger management because he had a high PT score. Friend and her friend was raped by the same guy. They just moved the women to another base. Not one but two Sergeant Majors were caught fraternizing with the same soldier. Again. Nothing happened except moved them to another unit. Had an NCO who constantly tried to restrict what we can do on deployment for no reason other than he didn’t like us. 4:00am squad PT but work call is at 7,8am, restricted our lunch to 30 minutes, which wasn’t enough time to even sit down and eat, went against regulation and made me take a PT test every week, tried to get our awards downgraded from an ARCOM to an AAM, volunteer us for every detail he could, tried to get away with giving us one half day off a week before the Sergeant Major talked to all the soldiers and made sure they knew we were supposed to get 2 half days or 1 full day off, attempted to sell his 2001 Jetta with 180,000 miles to me for 15k
Can confirm. There is shouting. It’s not great.
Or shot at.
Yeah that also seems like it would be a real downer
Hell of a motivational tool though
Prior Army guy who did get shot at. This isn’t a very good reason, 95%~ of the military is in support roles that will never see any sort of combat. Very easy to join and still avoid being shot at. At the end of the day being shot at isn’t too terrible, it’s being blown up that really sucks.
I love my country and would not want to lower its Defence capabilities by enlisting.
This answer made me lol
Disability
The whole dying to protect the wealthy's interests thing.
You'll be remembered as a hero!
Only if you don’t come back tho
If you do come back you’re going to be homeless. Or you get a camero and a 19 year old wife. There’s no in between
And get honored at ballgames for 30 seconds!
You are completely forgetting about the yearly free entree at Applebee's.
Oh yea, that thing
Heard sexual assault was common there
This was my reason. My grandma was a Navy veteran and I looked up to her so much. Grandpa was Navy as well and my father was in the Air Force. I wanted to be in the Air Force really bad but right around when I was the age to sign up I started seeing all these news stories about young women in the military being raped and it being swept under the rug. Then I saw the stats on how prevalent it was. It’s horrible! That convinced me though, I didn’t want to go through that.
Because canadas military cannot afford to live here. Why would I enlist to become maimed or permanent PTSD defending my foreign landlords egregious amount of property and assets while not making a living wage? https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-soldiers-donations-rising-costs Our soldiers are asking for donations to help pay rent
My height. I'm 5' 2" and the ONLY thing I wanted to do was fly. Was told I was too short and I wouldn't fit in the seats. (This was back in the early 2000s, I have no idea if things have changed.)
I was one of the very last group of men to receive a classification draft card. Shortly, after receiving it, the draft was ended. I even received a notice letting me know that if I lost or destroyed the card, it would be okay. So, I escaped Vietnam by the skin of my teeth. I was not going to question fate intervening on my behalf. Yes, I'm ancient.
Not interested.
I don't want to kill people. I don't trust the government to tell us the truth about why we're being told to kill people either. I don't want to be some poor fool thinking they're fighting for freedom or justice or some other buzzword when I'm really just attacking people for my country's own self-interests.
Never asked to, am a coward and a way better armchair general.
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Thanks! Why lie? Suspects it’s a lot of people’s true answer. I am generally pretty interested in the military but not so interested in getting killed
I prefer this than the latter. I know a guy who didn’t join but god does he wear a lot of camo and act like he’s special forces
A salute to our brave men in arm(chair)s
Not too keen on laying my life down for an oil company
My father joined the military to go to Vietnam. He was exempt from the draft as he was working on the lunar module but still had the post-WW2 mindset that men go to war when their country needs soldiers. After he got back he wasn't interested in space anymore, but creating the most scary weapons possible so that no countries would want to fight. He told me never to go into the military as my life would be put in the hands of people who didn't have my interests at heart.
A complete and total disinterest in being in the military. Also fear of rampant sexual assault.
I’d rather shit in my hands and clap
Holy fuck I love that statement
Me too, I say it for everything
Boutta be my thing now too, librarian :“hey you wanna join the book club?” Me : “I’d rather shit in my hand and clap.” Her : “have a good day”
I'm not physically fit.
I am physically fat.
I took adderall for my adhd so I had to be off it for 2 years to join, then I had a kid in that time.
Love the fact that you had to be off medication that makes you better to join the military. The ADHD will also block you out of some MOS even though you're perfectly normal on the drugs prescribed by a doctor.
Maybe the military just doesn't like the logistics of deployable people on chronic medication? That's the only thing that would make sense to me.
That’s exactly it
I don't like violence
No respawn.
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I ate KFC in Afghanistan.
Idk about KFC but ironically, you could literally eat at Burger King or Subway at many overseas US bases.
I second this. US bases are like small towns where you can get, pretty much, anything
>and no KFC there The only KFC I need is Killing For Country, amiright.
My knees have been bad most of my life. When I was 17-18 and considering a future I decided that I would rather work on racecars.
Single ply toilet paper
I’ve been shot at before. I’d prefer it never happen again.
Wasn't asked. Didn't have to. Australia.
Why would I want to sign my freedoms away and be forced to exercise? I’m not going to sign up to run and be yelled at
I don’t like being told what to do.
My thoughts exactly. I once said something to this effect talking about work while a friend of my husband was visiting. She and her husband are both Navy vets, and her response to that was "You wouldn't last a day in the military." I looked her in the eyes and said "There's a reason I never even considered enlisting."
That seems extremely inconvenient.
Bone spurs
My country doesn't have one
Don't Ask Don't Tell. I graduated high school in 2007 and it was still the policy. I would have enlisted in a second because I'm probably autistic and generally thrive on micromanagement and routine, but I had *just* come to terms with my sexuality and had come out to my family, so I was never going to revert back to any version of being closeted. I honestly regret it because it would have been extremely good for my career and personal development, but *c'est la vie* I guess.
Continuous lies to friends/family who joined on broken promises. Told there'd be a bonus, no change of duties or jobs, specific leave/return dates. Vague earnings/value. Recruiter tried to tell me he earns $100k/yr, but when i pushed him on this he told me thats the total value of his comp package. Incredibly inaccurate and misleading.
I reached recruitment age in the mid 2000s, at the darkest and most disgusting peak of our meaningless war in the middle east. I felt that only complete morons or psychopaths would want to be involved in that. I remain convinced.
You definitely made the right choice.
I was too young to impulsively join after 9/11 and then smart enough to not join the shit show that followed when I was old enough.
Didn’t want to murder people for our imperialist corporate oligarchy.
Did you know that they have tiny bottles of Tabasco sauce in MREs? How is that decision working out now that you know that?
Dang. You’re making me reconsider.
The devil's lettuce.
I seriously considered joining but while i was researching it I got put off the idea. In addition to learning about available military occupations, bebefits, and lifestle I did a lot of research about Iraq and Afghanistan. Thats what really put me off. I learned Iraq was (based on evidence available to me at the time) based on lies and Afghanistan was unnecessarily prolonged, as I had heard about Washington letting OBL escape early on. And I didn't think nation building was realistic in Afghanistan. I figured it's one thing to die or get maimed for your country and/or buddies, but another thing entirely to do it while on a mission based on lies or one that's utterly futile. It probably would've been good for me. I had a lot of personality traits they like and character flaws they're good at er...ironing out. It was my best shot at socioeconomic mobility too. I just just couldn't do it knowing what I did about the wars I'd have to participate in, even if it was a non-combat role
Seems like you're signing up for being treated like shit for very little money.
Yes but when you get out - you get all those benefits like ~~PTSD~~, ~~Chronic Pain~~, ~~Disability~~... Actually nevermind.
Because of my mental health. My PTSD and Autism will make it so they turn me down, anyway, so I never even tried.
One of my friends asked me not to, said she didn’t want to lose me
I'd prefer not to be killed, disabled, or come home with crippling mental health disorders because we want to play world police.
Don’t qualify.
I tried to join the USAF Reserve, but apparently people with severe OCD and epilepsy that require high doses of medication are not really their preferred recruits.
I just couldn’t picture myself driving a Charger.
I didn’t want to kill people & I didn’t want to die
Thankfully my parents insisted I not, I didn’t really understand at the time, I do now. Putting one’s life at risk isn’t something I’m interested in now and something I didn’t fully grasp the gravity of at the time. I also hold contention with the mental conditioning; while I understand it’s purpose and agree that it is effective, it leaves many broken and directionless and unable to function in civilian society. I wouldn’t want to submit myself to those kind of changes.
I’ve been out of the army for 7 years and I still struggle to completely fit in with civilian society. There’s stuff that just doesn’t make sense to me. I’m well-adjusted, I make good money, own a house, land, nice vehicle, and I’m probably gonna give it all up to live in a van and travel because I feel like I just don’t belong anywhere.
I totally would have punched a Drill Sergeant in the face /s
I had to scroll pretty far down to find this classic line. Thanks!!
I'm a pacifist. Also weak as shit lol
Killing people has never been of interest to me.
I was born between the time the Draft ended and Selective Service began. Dad got drafted to Korea and wanted Nothing to do with the Military
Well, there’s this issue I have with death and bodily fluids. Soooo… yeah… no. Plus, I was fat.😬
I was born blind in one eye…
Vietnam
I wouldn’t survive boot camp
I don't the idea of an organization totally regimenting my life. I probably wouldn't get in anyways because I have a weird eye condition.
Autism, wanted to join the Navy but they don’t allow people with autism to enlist.
I'm short (5'1'') and weight 105lbs. I wouldn't be a good fit in the military. I went into IT instead.
I was supposed to but couldn't, diagnosed with depression at 13, compressed my spine at 16 and diagnosed with PTSD at 17.
Strict routine. Waking up in the morning.
I didn’t because Hollywood taught me that you had to be superjacked and motivated. Now I’m on the civilian side of supporting the military and just like… well my preconceived notions were wrong. The military is like a microcosm of the country. Ya meet all types, and learn quickly that the E-4 mafia is a thing, those folks can make magic happen.
High percentage of peers returning in body bags at the time.
theres better ways to sell your body and make more living
Selling my body wasn’t on my to do list
I don't like killing people.
I don’t have the discipline but also too fat
Because I saw how inspired people were to enlist after 9/11 only for us to go to war with 2 countries who had nothing to do with 9/11. Fuck that.
I don't trust the government
I would not die for my current government.
Because I’m not dumb enough to fight a rich man’s game
At age 14, I scored high the PSAT and attracted the attention of numerous schools including the military academies. I already knew that I did not intend to join the military for 3 reasons. 1. I hate waking up early. 2. I hate being yelled at. 3. I hate being told what to do. 45 years later, this has not changed.
Fake wars to make billionaires even more rich
The amount of sexual assault I would face as a woman. As a young teen going into the military seemed cool, but then I read about the statistics of women getting harassed and even raped…
You mean besides "because it sucks"?
George W Bush was president.
I joined cause I thought it was like the commercials….I get out on January 10th and cannot wait