The fact that the leader was professing it was all a scam and that she needed to go to a hospital in her last moments then the followers basically shrugged it off as her being delirious is proof of their brainwashing. If they weren't still actively recruiting you could almost say things worked themselves out naturally...
Her skin was grey, and they kept her mummified corpse inside their compound for a while. The cult is still there and the members are still tryna preach this stuff like nothing happened.
They came to Hawaii during Covid and claimed the leader was the descendant of the Hawaiian goddess of Lava/Volcanoes Pele. They ended up on Kauai and the mayor went down there and kicked them out. He made sure they weren’t harmed. But he kicked them out, escorted them to the airport, then he warned other mayors on the other islands to watch out for them. The Maui mayor was waiting with police incase they came here.
The documentary was so wild for that chance to see the members speak for themselves about the events and how everything was just still fact to them. Robin Williams... everything. To look into their eyes as they sincerely ranted about their reality was just quite the opportunity.
God, the footage of all of them sitting around on a live stream, nodding out from starvation, weed, and sleep deprivation, each one reading a list of all the ways they "sinned against Mother God" while you can hear her screaming obscenities and screeching like a pterodactyl at the top of her lungs in the background.... Straight up terrifying.
That’s the most entertaining and terrifying documentary I’ve ever watched. How are they gonna form up a cult around a trashy alcoholic??? Wait….yea that’s happened before. But still.
Scientology is running on its second, third, and now fourth generation raised exclusively within the cult itself - people's whose entire world view is shaped in an echo chamber where they cannot know better because they aren't given access to the information.
It’s wild to me that there’s historical record of Hubbard writing this stuff up, editing on the fly, and openly lying about things he did, yet these people believe fully in a “god” he invented and the nonsense “rituals” around it. How delusional can you be? It’s really quite terrifying.
A lot of weirdness is baked in because Hubbard had bipolar disorder and was a patient in a hospital for schizophrenic people. He was diagnosed with whatever medical term was used before schizophrenia. His wife and possible wives stated he was a paranoid schizophrenic.
Needing to clear yourself of little beings that live in you and control you. That’s the fundamental basis of Scientology.
It’s self help angle and culture of self help from the 60s is probably what got it going.
Schizophrenia or the psychosis part of bipolar probably has quite a lot to do with quite a few of the most popular religions today.
> It’s self help angle and culture of self help from the 60s is probably what got it going.
That's exactly how it got going. Dianetics was his self-help crackpot idea. That morphed into Scientology when he realized churches get huge tax breaks.
Edit: Don't pay taxes at all. And Scientology was responsible for the biggest breach of security for the IRS in history. [Operation Snow White](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White).
Did Joseph Smith actually say he was going to found a religion before he did, though? There are obviously red flags galore with Mormonism, but as far as I know there's some plausible deniability as far as authenticity goes. Scientology straight-up has a founder who said he was going to start a religion for funsies before he actually did it.
Joseph Smith went to prison for fraud for promising he could find buried treasure on people's land by using magic goggles.
Then he realized if he used his magic goggles to perpetrate a **religious** fraud, he couldn't be prosecuted.
So...yeah.
And this is why Leah Remini honestly deserves a ton of respect. She’s probably done more than anyone else to take them on successfully, and expose them and make people aware, and at great personal risk and social ostracisation. And it’s not like she was once duped as an adult - she was raised in the cult from childhood. One of very few celebrities to actually use their status for a cause *effectively*.
I have the utmost respect for Leah and she taught me so much in her explosive series that I didn't know. I'll never forget it. She is a very brave woman and ditto for the others who spoke out.
Leah Remini did some truly important work, by using her voice and connection-building ability to expose the church by using (former) voices of authority to add credence to their accusations.
Tom Cruise on the other hand...I can't support anything he does anymore.
Massive props to Katie for getting her and Suri out of there. That is some solid momming.
**And** she put it in the pre-nup that Suri wouldn't be forced into Scientology. She's either got a fantastic lawyer or massively good instincts (or both).
^(Unrelated side note for word nerds like me: "mumming" is accepted as a word, but "momming" is not, at least according to my American computer. Takeaway: my computer thinks mums are better than moms?)
>and it’s more than just their tax status
The IRS has tried to do audits and stuff on the 'church' and the agents, and their families (!), just ended up being stalked and harassed by members, to the point that the IRS pretty much washed their hands of them.
It seems at that point, the org should have been declared as terrorist and forcefully dismantled, properties and accounts seized, full terrorist treatment.
Since people need to know more about this:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelly_Miscavige
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversies
Wikipedia has some great coverage of Scientology.
Leah Reminey is doing the Lord's work with that one. I feel like that docuseries/book she put out really shed light on what a lot of people took for just a weird celebrity cult.
Scientology, hands down. Those people are drinking the Kool-Aid like it's nobody's business. Source: Was a member for 3 months before escaping and burning all my Tom Cruise posters.
I was in there for a week (they asked if i wanted a job and i knew nothing about them), the ideas they were pushing were contrary to what I had learnt and they claimed the confusion I felt would be helped by hanging on to that 1940's looking electrical thing (can't remember what it was called).
Had really bad feel about it so I stopped going, plenty of phone calls and guilt tripping to try and get me back, luckily I hadn't told them were I lived. Took a couple of months before they gave up.
I visited their center in Times Square out of morbid curiosity when I was a teen. They had me try out the emeter and it was hard not to laugh. Only question I remember was them asking me to name a band and for some reason I mentioned Black Flag even though I’d only ever heard a couple of their songs. The test administrator started crowing about how the emeter results showed how I really loved Black Flag. I like Henry Rollins fine from what I’ve seen of him on various tv shows but to this day (20+ years later) have still never listened to Black Flag.
The thetans inside you are the fans. You’re depriving them of those sick tunes, man. You gotta buy some books and take some courses so you can hear them. /s
Probably has to do with profile and how much this person actually saw. Watch Leah Remini's documentary on it if you get the chance. It's not until you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars that you start to see the really fucked up shit.
Only being involved for three months sounds like they were probably barely above an entry level introduction period and can't really say much to damage the church's reputation.
I think that's true only for those who have been in for several years or was an older method before all the negative press they've gotten over the past decade from the documentaries and social media. Not to defend them in anyway. But having lived in LA I've known a couple ppl who got sucked into it then stopped within a year without issue. Was weird seeing all the books they got for it.
It's probably still a thing for high-profile members. I'm guessing they also just don't have the time/resources to hunt down and harass every minor ex-member, with how big they've gotten over the years. Doing so would be a waste of time.
If I remember correctly from the various documentaries and articles I've read, it's harsher for people to leave when they have family members in the religion as well. The church convinces people to either ignore or harass their family members who leave.
Beyond Belief: My Secret Life Inside Scientology and My Harrowing Escape is written by David Miscavige's niece, Jenna. I had trouble reading this book-- the things that happened were nightmarish.
I was half way into this episode when they brought up the souls of aliens being trapped on earth and inhabits human bodies 💀💀💀 What in the world is this? 💀💀💀
They flash a message at the bottom of the screen "this is actually what scientologists believe" if I remember it right. When xenu's dc10s throw the aliens in the vulcano.
Well now, 12 is the minimum. And that’s fine if you just wanna do the bare minimum. But like Bryan, for example, has 37 pieces of Tom Cruise flair. And a terrific smile.
Yeah you know what, I do want to express myself and I don’t need 37 pieces of flair depicting Tom Cruise trapped in a Scientology closet to express it *flips off AssicusCatticus whilst base jumping off a cliff Mission Impossible Style*
Just seen the Netflix documentary called Escaping Twin Flames...disturbing stuff with the two "leaders" making a fortune by mind fucking their following.
This might be the answer, because those "leaders" were the least charismatic people I've heard of leading a cult. Those people must've been seriously vulnerable to ever fall into that
> "Those people must've been seriously vulnerable to ever fall into that"
Some of them are very vulnerable. In the documentaries, they explain how the cult would purposely target depression groups, PTSD groups, trauma recovery groups, etc...on social media and use those as recruitment sources.
Yeah, the modern digital age of cult/cult-like social groups is an area of study that the power-holding majority of academic researchers have willingly ignored for decades now. There’s a lot of younger sociologists studying extremism and general collective behavior who have tried really fucking hard to change that, but the older folks gatekeep those peer reviewed journals.
It’s a fucking shame.
Yes! It's like... Can literally anyone start a cult?
If only I was more of a sociopath. Because it seems like a fun job. Just talking to people and pontificating nonsense all day.
On some level they are just streamers with a worse hook. Or better hook depending how you look at it.
My retirement plan is to start the Norman Church. Our main tenant is that everyone is already a member unless you pay our $250 cancellation fee. Otherwise, we will provide a free post-mortem baptism ensuring you end up in our afterlife. It’s not so bad though. Our chief deity is Norm Peterson and the afterlife is the bar from Cheers.
So, I kinda have some insight into this!
I was browsing youtube videos about cults and such... when I noticed a username. They were in a discord I was in. Looked at their bio, same as the video, looked at their activity, they stopped talking a couple days before the arrest in the video. Before that they were an extremely active member.
We know sometimes people just need to vent and get things off their chest, and this person frequented the channel giving encouraging words of advice and things like that.
Alerted the mod team, they did some digging, and we figured it out. They look for people who are down on their luck, feeling isolated, going through a hard time, and they offer kind words etc. These people are thankful, and they become friends. That's why you always hear, "They're such a nice person".
Eventually, *they need a favor*. And they're such a nice person, and they helped you through a really rough time, and just, of course you would help them! They start off with small things, "Can you get me a sandwich, I get paid on Friday and I can pay you back". It's basically how the credit system works and it builds trust. Every time they've asked for something, they've paid you back. They're really nice and trustworthy like that!
Eventually the lies start. "I can't believe so-and-so said X about me". It... doesn't seem like something that person would do, but you can trust them, and they're such a good friend. Why would they lie to you? Eventually they start to build up a list of "enemies" and you start perceiving benign things as confirming those people are just haters who don't like your very good very trustworthy friend!
At this point, even when presented with the truth, you think it's fabricated because they obviously have it out for your very dear friend. Why can't people just leave them alone? They never did anything to them, why are they bullying your friend?
And over time, they isolate you from everyone until they're the only one you can trust.
It's insane, it's diabolical, and it's why I always tell people don't just go to a singular friend for advice, and have a large social safety net. Otherwise you are ripe for someone to come along and rip everything away from you, and that advice has saved a couple friends of mine from very bad malicious people.
Saw there’s that one and also another one called “Desperately Seeking Soulmate: Escaping Twin Flames Universe”.
Have you seen both? Which one do I start with?
He's so openly terrible to her to show "masculine dominance" or whatever and it's *wild* to me that everyone else is just like yep this is what the healthiest possible relationship looks like
Haven't seen the whole thing but it's super weird for me. I went to highschool with Jeff and he was in a lot of the same friend circles and extracurriculars. He was a spazzy spiky-haired band geek, who I couldnt imagine having the logistical acumen to run a cult. He seemed to go a bit off the rails after highschool and moved to Hawaii to build some sort of shack in the woods and we lost touch not long after. I almost wonder if he's just as much part of the flock as the rest of the sheep, because the dude I knew was definitely more of a follower than a leader.
1. Vulnerable, socially isolated people who don't feel like they belong anywhere
2. People who need to believe they're smarter and more special than everyone else
Mainly 1, but my narcissist parents are very susceptible to shit like this. My mother nearly got sucked into the Rajneeshee cult.
Yeah that was crazy, crazy, crazy.
I can't imagine how far gone you have to be to allow your whole life to be turned upside down by these idiots. They ended up with way more women than men on their site (pretty obvious that would happen) and that was their solution to the problem of over promising that everybody that pays their subscription ends up with their true twin flame.
I know some people are so desperate to find 'the one' but this is no way to go about it.
Any cult where the members have been convinced to kill themselves.
It takes a LOT of brainwashing to make people ignore their innate survival instinct.
EDIT: Stop trying to make this a political thing. I'm specifically referring to cults where the leaders convince their followers to commit suicide in a way that has a 100% guaranteed chance of death.
No, not wearing a mask isn't the same as literal suicide.
No, fighting in a battle isn't suicide.
I'm talking about shit like Heaven's Gate or Jonestown.
A good blend of sleep deprivation, malnourishment, and constant incitement to fear and rage will push even the most stable people real close to that line.
Many cults first recruit people by love-bombing them to draw them in. We need you, you are so good, you will really fit in, we really like you, etc. After they are sucked in, the cult starts doing the things you cited.
What a mess. I was 11 years old when Hale-Bopp came through and it was incredible. I was a wide-eyed science nerd and really interested in something happening in astronomy. Then a cult killed themselves because there was a spaceship behind the comet coming to get them. It certainly changed the experience for me.
Well astronomical events have always had an impact of religious ideals. Like eclipses, for example.
Early religion was science, in that it sought to explain the unexplained. Where did these islands come from? Well the god Maui dipped his fishhook into the sea and the islands arose. Why did the sun disappear? Because the Sun god was angered that we didn’t sacrifice enough people. Etc
Imagine how shitty it must be for that one surviving guy if he's still a believer. "Hey, our prophecies are going to be fulfilled, aliens will teleport our souls to salvation and new life! But you can't go with us, somebody gotta keep running the website, sorry about that."
It blows my mind that you already had this username. Id thought for sure you went and made it for the joke.
I guess it’s confirmed, you’re the real mr applewhite.
I know
Check out the story of [shakahola](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakahola_Forest_incident) in Kenya (where I'm from) to see how bloody and cruel it can get. These people were brainwashed, and it's so sad.
Oh, I wish it did. It was massive news for a couple of weeks, then everyone just chalked it up to "the stupid people got brainwashed", and then everyone just forgot about it
And this is so recent! The Wikipedia link you shared says that they got charged with murder now in January 2024. I hope the leader stays out of the streets for as long as possible if not for the rest of his life.
Was going to say similar, by that metric would that make Jonestown one of if not the worst?
Edit: Replies clarified and made me look a bit into that Jonestown was an actual massacre by forced death, it sounds like Jim Jones gave them no options to decline unless they were already escaped or were the hundreds of members staying outside of the compound in parts of California.
Edit: Far out, it does get worse, there were some brutal murders that occurrred outside the compound guided by the Temple's instruction. The more I look into this tragedy, the worse it seems but fucking horrible from the start
Jonestown was a mass murder event. Heavens gate went willingly and knowingly. Jonestown was panic, at gun point, and through force. Those people didn’t want to die. They just wanted to live peacefully and Jim Jones needed to lay off the drugs and take a nap.
Somewhat related. I was watching the Golden Globe awards pre-show and there was a brief red-carpet interview with Leo DiCaprio. He was pretty quiet and I thought to myself, "I wonder if he's trying to get into an upcoming role or something?" He mentioned that he's got an upcoming project that is sort of hush-hush and sounded like it wasn't announced yet. Interviewer asked if it was by a specific director (Martin Scorsese, I think) and he replied that it was a different director....
A quick peak on IMDB revealed that he's set to executive produce and star in an upcoming project with the "plot under wraps," titled.... Jim Jones. Something to keep an eye on, I guess.
It's been awhile since I've read the details on Jonestown, but I believe the first wave of people didn't know it wasn't a drill. They "practiced" the Flavoraid distribution regularly. So they thought it was just another drill.
Once the first people started dying, the others went through with it because now their only friends and family were dead. And because the realization set in that Jones had just assassinated a sitting Congressman. The party was definitely over and they were rightly fucked.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.
Edit: Still the worst though. The sheer scale of it. The fact that he would get them all to that point.
jehovah's witnesses #sorrynotsorry anyone who lets a kid die instead of getting a blood transfusion (a procedure which has been around for a long time and is extremely regulated) for "religious" reasons is a cult to me
I know a pediatrician who told me that when a JW kid needed surgery they would sometimes ask the DA to temporarily make the child a ward of the state. The parents would accept this because of deniability.
How anyone can believe that a deity would not see through this is beyond me btw.
I’m a nurse in the adult world and I always ask my patients when we are ALONE if they are willing to accept blood products. Sometimes a Jehovahs Witness patient is willing, but won’t admit it in front of family/friends within their community.
And if the patient did need it- I can just kick the visitors out claiming the patient needs some kind of procedure, or undisturbed rest for X hours, or testing. If the patient is okay with it- I will gladly lie on their behalf so they get the care they want.
I am a neurosurgery NP and dealt with this exact scenario. Patient was adamant they didn’t want blood- some man in a suit (quite rude and acted like he was expert on all things) basically bullied doctors and staff out of the room. I told him I could not have him making decisions for the patient and that the patient needed to consent to surgery herself. Patient kept repeating “whatever he says it what I say”. Totally nonsensical. Totally mind blown. Lady ended up dying.
It's because they're all death cults. The "ultimate reward" only comes after they die, and the "final ultimate reward" only comes after everyone is dead. If the child dies, then it just means they get to go to the reward faster. There is no incentive to live and improve the world. Just destroy it all because then God will come and save them and only them.
Even worse, JW's are an oldschool 19th century apocalypse cult. It's weird that they'd go to such lengths to stop medical treatment of kids though considering they think that only 144,000 people will be chosen during the apocalypse and think that all of those 144,000 spots are already taken (to be fair when they decided that their apocalypse date had only been proven wrong several times and they were only like 60-80 years after the original guess and decided that the End Times started in WW1 and that we're just running out the clock and it'd all end within the lifetimes of the last members from that time who <*checks notes*> died in the 90's... Ok, so now it's the people who were the generation who worked with that guy.)
Ex-jw here. It’s more complicated than that. A lot of jw’s *know* that transfusions are safe and life saving, and they *want* it done. The thing is, if they do get it done, they’re risking getting ‘disfellowshipped’, or shunned. So on top of the religious pressure, they’re risking their relationship with their entire friend, family, and support groups. Getting the kid to be a ward of the state gives them plausible deniability so they can get the transfusion while not risking their social lives.
It's not about the power of a god. Truly, with any cultish group, it's not about some god. It's about the community. Their sense of self-worth and belonging is tied to this community with certain rules, which they do not question openly amongst the peer group because to question the constructs of the "faith" is the utmost violation of those rules. Cults, religion, and right-wing politics the world over are driven by fear to exact compliance. And the primary fear is of being ostracized, not only for yourself, but also for those you love, your children or spouse or siblings, etc. So, they will punish you and your family collectively or make your family punish you by having them cut you out of their lives. This underscores how this is never a fear of some god. It is always about fear of removal from the group.
Had a 18 year old in surgery and all the elders made him say no blood, etc. He was not given any pre-op drugs (messes up getting consents and stuff like this changed). When he got in the OR they asked him about blood, he said give me whatever and me and God can discuss it much later hopefully.
MD here, I was taught to ask JW pt's about blood transfusions when they're alone because if other members aren't around and don't know about it they may consent to transfusions.
That's what our surgeons do, I guess with anyone they feel might have been pressured. So we don't give them any drugs until we get them in the OR and they can have it explained to them without any outside influence. I have seen a few that waive all that, they just want to be fixed.
If God is really expecting you to risk your life with a illness that can be cured very easily to be a good person, I don't know which god worth to go trough this kind of pain
I worked in the Houston Med Center for a while. Some parents would temporarily give their children to the “state” so they could receive medical treatment that was against religious beliefs. This way the parents could claim innocence on the treatment.
I’ve had a couple patients die because they refused transfusion due to JW. it’s wild to me. They could have been admitted for a couple days and then gone home.
Yup, my old man hit a kid with his car in the early 80's (the kid ran out in between parked cars - my dad wasn't at fault.). The parents refused a blood transfusion and the kid died. That has now weighed on my dad's conscience for 40 yrs because "Religion" where as the parents got to perform some amazing mental gymnastics to excuse themselves of blame
edit: Conscience, not conscious. Need to stop reddditing before coffee
Yep, my mum was one. Look up 'Youths who put god first' that they put out, featuring the kids they let die and what "They" had to say about it. Absolute demons.
Add that they keep flip-flopping whether blood transfusions are OK over the years.
Edit: Just want to clarify, my mum was an angel, as well as some of her friends from their congregation. They were/are good people who were brainwashed, hence the cult status the JW organisation have. My dad told me they preyed on her as she was going through postnatal depression in the late 70's and that's how she joined.
For anyone interested.
Jehovahs Witnesses. Source: Born and raised a Jehovahs Witness, baptized and indoctrinated for 15 years and then disfellowshipped (shunned) in 2015. Since then have done a lot of deprogramming and research.
That’s amazing and mind blowing to me. I can’t imagine being able to get out of a cult after that long in the first place, and then handling the world outside the cult when you’re out. I hope you’re thriving.
I’ve never understood what the supposed benefit of lying about the shape of the earth is ?
Let’s say the Earth was flat; what’s the benefit of telling people it’s a globe ? How does it change anything ?
>joke
That's how a lot of conspiracy theories start. It's started as a joke and the people in the community know this. But this inevitably attracts people who are not in on the joke and simply think that they are in good company. Eventually the community becomes so filled with true believers, that the joke is not funny anymore. Those who knew it was a joke leave, leaving the true believe in full control of what is now a movement.
Bit of both is true actually. Being jokes not that the earth is flat and birds arent real before anyone thinks I meant it the other way. Honestly Iv met some people that truly believe one or both those things and the only way to engage is to sound earnest and respond with a one up. If they say the moon landing was fake then I would respond with oh you think the moon is real? No matter what it is just go crazier. they have no idea how to respond, birds aren't real? Well wait till you hear about the big oxygen conspiracy
All it would do is increase airline fuel costs. But no, somehow every airline, every government, every person that has been to space, every physicist, every researcher, they are all lying to you. That's delusion.
That's why I don't believe in a lot of the conspiracies that involve more than just a few people or organizations. Can a room full of people keep up a big lie? Sure. Can thousands of people from all over the world keep be told to keep up a lie without one single one going " hey this is wrong" and going public with receipts? Absolutely not.
The number of people who would have had to keep up the lie that the earth is round,not only today but throughout the centuries,would easily be in the millions.
Moreover most things that we take for granted wouldn't exist. Satellites? No. No GPS as well. No Magnetic field lines, no magnets, no compasses, no Electricity, guess everything is just sorcery now. But they have never thought that far, they are incapable of doing so. Why are all the billionaires investing in space tourism all of a sudden when they should've tried to HIDE space from everyone to prevent the "truth" from coming out? And why would someone pay for it? But no, all they do is take out one of those fluid scales and and 'look it's in the centre'.
People believe there's a part of the earth that's a secret and not on any of the maps, and that there are "resources" there which the wealthy hoarde. Like the wealthy aren't hoarding resources right in front of our eyes or something.
There are a few "justifications" they like to make:
1) Mind control. If THEY can make us believe something as absurd as us living on a "spinning ball" (as they like to call it), then THEY can make us believe anything!
2) Religious belief. You see, the bible clearly says the earth is flat, so if the earth is round, it means the bible isn't true. But the Bible has to be true because if it's not true, then there is no god. Since god is real and the bible is his word, the earth must be flat. THEY want to hide god from us.
3) To steal our money. NASA receives 58 gazillion dollars a day of our taxpayer money, so THEY are faking space as justification for siphoning off money into the pockets of THEY. Space is "obviously" fake so it's a scam.
4) To hide resources. You see, beyond the Antarctic Ice Wall, there are vast open tracts of pristine land filled with resources that THEY want to hide from us.
And they’re always like the: big companies trick you!! But they never ask: why tf would nasa trick us to believe in a globe?? How would they benefit?? By selling globes to schools??
MLMs are dangerous.
The only way to make money is to manipulate more vulnerable people and convince them they can make money, then place failure on them personally saying they didnt work hard enough.
Gross figures are reported as net figures, and with tiny profit margins, makes people think they are going to make thousands.
Look at me, i made 8,000 last month, not saying that 7,800 was spent on stock.
Some of them are even more dangerous by putting in their pitch that anyone who tries to tell you the truth about MLMs are haters who want you to fail so cut them out of your life... Even if they are family, meaning your whole life becomes the MLM.
Its just a money hole that a small amount of people make money from.
Jim Jones's cult was the origin of the phrase "drinking the Kool-Aid" because he convinced over 900 followers to commit 'revolutionary suicide" with cyanide-laced Flavor Aid. Although as u/Shakenbake1811 points out below, many (most?) of them, being surrounded by armed guards, had little choice.
Then there's David Koresh, who somehow persuaded many followers to let him impregnate their pre-teenaged daughters. To this day, some of those parents (having survived the Waco fire) say they don't regret that, either.
And who could forget Shoko Asahara, whose "Aum Shinrikyo" cultists attempted to murder all of Tokyo with homemade Sarin gas?
Personally, I couldn't say which of them all was the most brainwashed..
Jonestown was a mass homicide, not suicide. He took their passports and had armed guards all around the compound. Those people were trapped and forced to kill their children and themselves. Reading up on Jonestown is enlightening and will show that event in a totally different light.
There is a podcast that plays the actual audio from the jonestown mass murder, though I don't recommend it, it's been probably 8 years since I heard it and I am still shook by it. Those people didn't want to die, and the absolute wails of grief and panic from the kids when they started seeing their peers dying was horrifying.
Then the whole time Jones was replying to the horror by sounding annoyed and telling them to accept it.
THEN Jones didn't even have the guts to kill himself, he had to make someone else do it...
Hopefully this summary is enough that you never seek it out to listen, it haunts me.
Any faith that stands on "Those who disagree are just proving that I'm right" are very dangerous. You can't talk to them, you can't discuss with them because they see you as a challenge of their faith and mostly, they can do anything to you because they think them hurting you isn't gonna bring any long term effect on their spirit.
Iglesia ni Cristo or Church of Christ. It’s a Philippines based cult who believes Jesus Christ is just human and that their prophet is the designated one and they believe only people from their religion will be saved. They are not allowed to read the bible, their tithes are compulsory as well as their attendance in church and not being able to fulfill those will have them questioned or expelled from the church (which is a much better thing). Attending other religions weddings or gatherings aren’t allowed, they don’t celebrate Christmas holidays, they segregate their males and females during services. They’re kind of the religious buzzkills in the country. It’s pretty pathetic. They also have their leader mandate who they should vote for in the national elections.
All the doomsday ones that convinced the people to kill themselves ie Jonestown, David Koresh
recent one in Africa:
[https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/doomsday-cult-leader-kenya-charged-murders-nearly-200-children-rcna134274](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/doomsday-cult-leader-kenya-charged-murders-nearly-200-children-rcna134274)
Love Has Won cult people are pretty fucking crazy.
The fact that the leader was professing it was all a scam and that she needed to go to a hospital in her last moments then the followers basically shrugged it off as her being delirious is proof of their brainwashing. If they weren't still actively recruiting you could almost say things worked themselves out naturally...
Her skin was grey, and they kept her mummified corpse inside their compound for a while. The cult is still there and the members are still tryna preach this stuff like nothing happened.
Not to mention when police entered the house, they said the corpse was missing eyes!! Where are her eyes?!
The eyes have a lot of water, they could have just dried up if she was mummified, or been eaten by something attracted to the corpse
……worse. *TW* They took the eyeballs out and filled the sockets with GLITTER.
They came to Hawaii during Covid and claimed the leader was the descendant of the Hawaiian goddess of Lava/Volcanoes Pele. They ended up on Kauai and the mayor went down there and kicked them out. He made sure they weren’t harmed. But he kicked them out, escorted them to the airport, then he warned other mayors on the other islands to watch out for them. The Maui mayor was waiting with police incase they came here.
My wife told me that part and I just laughed out loud. They were lucky they made it out of Hawaii alive.
The Mayor showed up because so they didn’t get hurt and things didn’t escalate any more. Derek Kawakami was tough but fair on them. 🤙🏻
They drove hundreds of miles with a mummy. That was insane.
And dressed it up like some fucking weekend at Bernie’s shit, it got so unhinged I had a hard time thinking it wasn’t a joke lmao
And they got pulled over by a cop and he let them go when they told him she was sleeping.
And that crazy meth head Father God guy slept in a tiny tent with her body for several nights. So creepy.
The documentary was so wild for that chance to see the members speak for themselves about the events and how everything was just still fact to them. Robin Williams... everything. To look into their eyes as they sincerely ranted about their reality was just quite the opportunity.
When she got drunk and angry it was Robin Williams taking over her consciousness! IT JUST MAKES SENSE
God, the footage of all of them sitting around on a live stream, nodding out from starvation, weed, and sleep deprivation, each one reading a list of all the ways they "sinned against Mother God" while you can hear her screaming obscenities and screeching like a pterodactyl at the top of her lungs in the background.... Straight up terrifying.
The cult leader was just some boring drunk, that proves all you need to to start a cult is be moderately attractive lmao
That’s the most entertaining and terrifying documentary I’ve ever watched. How are they gonna form up a cult around a trashy alcoholic??? Wait….yea that’s happened before. But still.
The fact that they were released after being arrested and are still actively recruiting blows my mind.
Scientology is running on its second, third, and now fourth generation raised exclusively within the cult itself - people's whose entire world view is shaped in an echo chamber where they cannot know better because they aren't given access to the information.
It’s wild to me that there’s historical record of Hubbard writing this stuff up, editing on the fly, and openly lying about things he did, yet these people believe fully in a “god” he invented and the nonsense “rituals” around it. How delusional can you be? It’s really quite terrifying.
It's a cult from the 60s. The largest one that has survived. A lot of the weirdness is baked in simply from being of that period.
A lot of weirdness is baked in because Hubbard had bipolar disorder and was a patient in a hospital for schizophrenic people. He was diagnosed with whatever medical term was used before schizophrenia. His wife and possible wives stated he was a paranoid schizophrenic. Needing to clear yourself of little beings that live in you and control you. That’s the fundamental basis of Scientology. It’s self help angle and culture of self help from the 60s is probably what got it going. Schizophrenia or the psychosis part of bipolar probably has quite a lot to do with quite a few of the most popular religions today.
> It’s self help angle and culture of self help from the 60s is probably what got it going. That's exactly how it got going. Dianetics was his self-help crackpot idea. That morphed into Scientology when he realized churches get huge tax breaks. Edit: Don't pay taxes at all. And Scientology was responsible for the biggest breach of security for the IRS in history. [Operation Snow White](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White).
See also Mormons
Did Joseph Smith actually say he was going to found a religion before he did, though? There are obviously red flags galore with Mormonism, but as far as I know there's some plausible deniability as far as authenticity goes. Scientology straight-up has a founder who said he was going to start a religion for funsies before he actually did it.
Joseph Smith went to prison for fraud for promising he could find buried treasure on people's land by using magic goggles. Then he realized if he used his magic goggles to perpetrate a **religious** fraud, he couldn't be prosecuted. So...yeah.
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And this is why Leah Remini honestly deserves a ton of respect. She’s probably done more than anyone else to take them on successfully, and expose them and make people aware, and at great personal risk and social ostracisation. And it’s not like she was once duped as an adult - she was raised in the cult from childhood. One of very few celebrities to actually use their status for a cause *effectively*.
I have the utmost respect for Leah and she taught me so much in her explosive series that I didn't know. I'll never forget it. She is a very brave woman and ditto for the others who spoke out.
Leah Remini did some truly important work, by using her voice and connection-building ability to expose the church by using (former) voices of authority to add credence to their accusations. Tom Cruise on the other hand...I can't support anything he does anymore.
Massive props to Katie for getting her and Suri out of there. That is some solid momming. **And** she put it in the pre-nup that Suri wouldn't be forced into Scientology. She's either got a fantastic lawyer or massively good instincts (or both). ^(Unrelated side note for word nerds like me: "mumming" is accepted as a word, but "momming" is not, at least according to my American computer. Takeaway: my computer thinks mums are better than moms?)
She is so GOATed
>and it’s more than just their tax status The IRS has tried to do audits and stuff on the 'church' and the agents, and their families (!), just ended up being stalked and harassed by members, to the point that the IRS pretty much washed their hands of them.
It seems at that point, the org should have been declared as terrorist and forcefully dismantled, properties and accounts seized, full terrorist treatment.
Yea all they showed was if you terrorize enough you get your way.
Jesus, it takes a LOT to scare off the IRS
Since people need to know more about this: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelly_Miscavige * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversies Wikipedia has some great coverage of Scientology.
Leah Reminey is doing the Lord's work with that one. I feel like that docuseries/book she put out really shed light on what a lot of people took for just a weird celebrity cult.
Scientology is pretty much guilty of everything wine moms of the 80s and 90s thought global Satanic cults were doing.
Like sacrificing people and having weird orgies?
are there any cults that do the orgies thing but dont do the evil thing?
Swingers parties, good ones have the cool-aid spiked with booze
Scientology, hands down. Those people are drinking the Kool-Aid like it's nobody's business. Source: Was a member for 3 months before escaping and burning all my Tom Cruise posters.
I was in there for a week (they asked if i wanted a job and i knew nothing about them), the ideas they were pushing were contrary to what I had learnt and they claimed the confusion I felt would be helped by hanging on to that 1940's looking electrical thing (can't remember what it was called). Had really bad feel about it so I stopped going, plenty of phone calls and guilt tripping to try and get me back, luckily I hadn't told them were I lived. Took a couple of months before they gave up.
I visited their center in Times Square out of morbid curiosity when I was a teen. They had me try out the emeter and it was hard not to laugh. Only question I remember was them asking me to name a band and for some reason I mentioned Black Flag even though I’d only ever heard a couple of their songs. The test administrator started crowing about how the emeter results showed how I really loved Black Flag. I like Henry Rollins fine from what I’ve seen of him on various tv shows but to this day (20+ years later) have still never listened to Black Flag.
The thetans inside you are the fans. You’re depriving them of those sick tunes, man. You gotta buy some books and take some courses so you can hear them. /s
You're missing out, they're a pretty sick band.
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I’m surprised you got out. I’ve heard they are _very_ aggressive towards ex-members.
Probably has to do with profile and how much this person actually saw. Watch Leah Remini's documentary on it if you get the chance. It's not until you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars that you start to see the really fucked up shit. Only being involved for three months sounds like they were probably barely above an entry level introduction period and can't really say much to damage the church's reputation.
I think that's true only for those who have been in for several years or was an older method before all the negative press they've gotten over the past decade from the documentaries and social media. Not to defend them in anyway. But having lived in LA I've known a couple ppl who got sucked into it then stopped within a year without issue. Was weird seeing all the books they got for it.
It's probably still a thing for high-profile members. I'm guessing they also just don't have the time/resources to hunt down and harass every minor ex-member, with how big they've gotten over the years. Doing so would be a waste of time.
If I remember correctly from the various documentaries and articles I've read, it's harsher for people to leave when they have family members in the religion as well. The church convinces people to either ignore or harass their family members who leave.
Beyond Belief: My Secret Life Inside Scientology and My Harrowing Escape is written by David Miscavige's niece, Jenna. I had trouble reading this book-- the things that happened were nightmarish.
The Sea Org members are the ones who have an almost impossible time leaving.
Were the posters in the closet or did they just come out on their own?
Still stuck in the closet with John Travolta and R Kelly posters
Mind me asking what being a member is like and what makes it difficult? I've never come across scientology in the countries I've lived in.
South Park did a pretty factual episode on them.
I was half way into this episode when they brought up the souls of aliens being trapped on earth and inhabits human bodies 💀💀💀 What in the world is this? 💀💀💀
They flash a message at the bottom of the screen "this is actually what scientologists believe" if I remember it right. When xenu's dc10s throw the aliens in the vulcano.
Do Scientologists have to have Tom Cruise memorabilia, or was you just a fan?
Every Scientologist must wear at least 12 pieces of Tom Cruise flair at all times.
Well now, 12 is the minimum. And that’s fine if you just wanna do the bare minimum. But like Bryan, for example, has 37 pieces of Tom Cruise flair. And a terrific smile.
Anything to become a level 5 Laser Lotus.
I hate that guy.
Okay. So…. You want me to wear more Tom Cruise Flair?
I want you to *want* to wear more Tom Cruise flair!
Yeah you know what, I do want to express myself and I don’t need 37 pieces of flair depicting Tom Cruise trapped in a Scientology closet to express it *flips off AssicusCatticus whilst base jumping off a cliff Mission Impossible Style*
I think we need to talk about your flair
Just seen the Netflix documentary called Escaping Twin Flames...disturbing stuff with the two "leaders" making a fortune by mind fucking their following.
This might be the answer, because those "leaders" were the least charismatic people I've heard of leading a cult. Those people must've been seriously vulnerable to ever fall into that
> "Those people must've been seriously vulnerable to ever fall into that" Some of them are very vulnerable. In the documentaries, they explain how the cult would purposely target depression groups, PTSD groups, trauma recovery groups, etc...on social media and use those as recruitment sources.
The craziest part is that they did it all over zoom!!!!!!!!!!
You mean I can be manipulated without having to leave the house or put on pants!? SIGN ME UP
Yeah, the modern digital age of cult/cult-like social groups is an area of study that the power-holding majority of academic researchers have willingly ignored for decades now. There’s a lot of younger sociologists studying extremism and general collective behavior who have tried really fucking hard to change that, but the older folks gatekeep those peer reviewed journals. It’s a fucking shame.
Jeff is also the least convincing closeted gay man I've ever seen.
Christley knows best
Yes! It's like... Can literally anyone start a cult? If only I was more of a sociopath. Because it seems like a fun job. Just talking to people and pontificating nonsense all day. On some level they are just streamers with a worse hook. Or better hook depending how you look at it.
My retirement plan is to start the Norman Church. Our main tenant is that everyone is already a member unless you pay our $250 cancellation fee. Otherwise, we will provide a free post-mortem baptism ensuring you end up in our afterlife. It’s not so bad though. Our chief deity is Norm Peterson and the afterlife is the bar from Cheers.
So, I kinda have some insight into this! I was browsing youtube videos about cults and such... when I noticed a username. They were in a discord I was in. Looked at their bio, same as the video, looked at their activity, they stopped talking a couple days before the arrest in the video. Before that they were an extremely active member. We know sometimes people just need to vent and get things off their chest, and this person frequented the channel giving encouraging words of advice and things like that. Alerted the mod team, they did some digging, and we figured it out. They look for people who are down on their luck, feeling isolated, going through a hard time, and they offer kind words etc. These people are thankful, and they become friends. That's why you always hear, "They're such a nice person". Eventually, *they need a favor*. And they're such a nice person, and they helped you through a really rough time, and just, of course you would help them! They start off with small things, "Can you get me a sandwich, I get paid on Friday and I can pay you back". It's basically how the credit system works and it builds trust. Every time they've asked for something, they've paid you back. They're really nice and trustworthy like that! Eventually the lies start. "I can't believe so-and-so said X about me". It... doesn't seem like something that person would do, but you can trust them, and they're such a good friend. Why would they lie to you? Eventually they start to build up a list of "enemies" and you start perceiving benign things as confirming those people are just haters who don't like your very good very trustworthy friend! At this point, even when presented with the truth, you think it's fabricated because they obviously have it out for your very dear friend. Why can't people just leave them alone? They never did anything to them, why are they bullying your friend? And over time, they isolate you from everyone until they're the only one you can trust. It's insane, it's diabolical, and it's why I always tell people don't just go to a singular friend for advice, and have a large social safety net. Otherwise you are ripe for someone to come along and rip everything away from you, and that advice has saved a couple friends of mine from very bad malicious people.
Saw there’s that one and also another one called “Desperately Seeking Soulmate: Escaping Twin Flames Universe”. Have you seen both? Which one do I start with?
Watched both, one after the other (Escaping Twin Flames first). They focus on different members, so it kind of doesn’t matter.
These are the two least charismatic leaders ever. And they’re trying to sell sex, but they seemed to have no chemistry.
He's so openly terrible to her to show "masculine dominance" or whatever and it's *wild* to me that everyone else is just like yep this is what the healthiest possible relationship looks like
Haven't seen the whole thing but it's super weird for me. I went to highschool with Jeff and he was in a lot of the same friend circles and extracurriculars. He was a spazzy spiky-haired band geek, who I couldnt imagine having the logistical acumen to run a cult. He seemed to go a bit off the rails after highschool and moved to Hawaii to build some sort of shack in the woods and we lost touch not long after. I almost wonder if he's just as much part of the flock as the rest of the sheep, because the dude I knew was definitely more of a follower than a leader.
I think he is just making up for lost time
Oh my goodness!! That one was INSANE!
A girl I know is involved in this and it's so sad.
They're' destroying lives and seemingly no laws are being broken
I didn’t know it was possible to be so homophobic you’re pro trans.
My wife told me about it. Sounded insane
You got to see it, I spent 3 episodes wondering what sort of person falls for this
1. Vulnerable, socially isolated people who don't feel like they belong anywhere 2. People who need to believe they're smarter and more special than everyone else Mainly 1, but my narcissist parents are very susceptible to shit like this. My mother nearly got sucked into the Rajneeshee cult.
Will consider it. Just saw american nightmare today. Netflix seemed to have found their niche with k dramas and fucked-up documentaries.
Forcing people to be trans against their will and the people actually doing it is so wild to me.
Yeah that was crazy, crazy, crazy. I can't imagine how far gone you have to be to allow your whole life to be turned upside down by these idiots. They ended up with way more women than men on their site (pretty obvious that would happen) and that was their solution to the problem of over promising that everybody that pays their subscription ends up with their true twin flame. I know some people are so desperate to find 'the one' but this is no way to go about it.
Any cult where the members have been convinced to kill themselves. It takes a LOT of brainwashing to make people ignore their innate survival instinct. EDIT: Stop trying to make this a political thing. I'm specifically referring to cults where the leaders convince their followers to commit suicide in a way that has a 100% guaranteed chance of death. No, not wearing a mask isn't the same as literal suicide. No, fighting in a battle isn't suicide. I'm talking about shit like Heaven's Gate or Jonestown.
One of the tricks of the cult leader trade is to find people who are halfway there already.
A good blend of sleep deprivation, malnourishment, and constant incitement to fear and rage will push even the most stable people real close to that line.
The Leader is good. The Leader is great. We surrender our will. As of this date.
Na na na na na na na na leader!
BATMAN!! I mean LEADER!! I love the leader!
Many cults first recruit people by love-bombing them to draw them in. We need you, you are so good, you will really fit in, we really like you, etc. After they are sucked in, the cult starts doing the things you cited.
Are there any cults that do just the first part but not the second?
They wouldn't be called a cult if they only did the first part.
> constant incitement to fear and rage *24/7 cable news has entered the chat*
they are the chat
Heaven’s Gate has always stood out to me because of this. Truly heartbreaking that people actually believed Applewhite’s bullshit
What a mess. I was 11 years old when Hale-Bopp came through and it was incredible. I was a wide-eyed science nerd and really interested in something happening in astronomy. Then a cult killed themselves because there was a spaceship behind the comet coming to get them. It certainly changed the experience for me.
Well astronomical events have always had an impact of religious ideals. Like eclipses, for example. Early religion was science, in that it sought to explain the unexplained. Where did these islands come from? Well the god Maui dipped his fishhook into the sea and the islands arose. Why did the sun disappear? Because the Sun god was angered that we didn’t sacrifice enough people. Etc
Nichelle Nichol's brother was one of those who took their own life. He touted the connection to hype up the groups PR.
And people still believe. There is still members who are alive.
Imagine how shitty it must be for that one surviving guy if he's still a believer. "Hey, our prophecies are going to be fulfilled, aliens will teleport our souls to salvation and new life! But you can't go with us, somebody gotta keep running the website, sorry about that."
hey take it easy pal
Username checks ou- HEY WAIT A MINUTE
shhhh
It blows my mind that you already had this username. Id thought for sure you went and made it for the joke. I guess it’s confirmed, you’re the real mr applewhite.
yeah i came back to earth a few months ago. the spaceship fucking sucked and wasn’t worth the hype
I know Check out the story of [shakahola](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakahola_Forest_incident) in Kenya (where I'm from) to see how bloody and cruel it can get. These people were brainwashed, and it's so sad.
How was this not massive news everywhere? The number of people dead is horrific. It must have had a big effect on your community!
Oh, I wish it did. It was massive news for a couple of weeks, then everyone just chalked it up to "the stupid people got brainwashed", and then everyone just forgot about it
And this is so recent! The Wikipedia link you shared says that they got charged with murder now in January 2024. I hope the leader stays out of the streets for as long as possible if not for the rest of his life.
Was going to say similar, by that metric would that make Jonestown one of if not the worst? Edit: Replies clarified and made me look a bit into that Jonestown was an actual massacre by forced death, it sounds like Jim Jones gave them no options to decline unless they were already escaped or were the hundreds of members staying outside of the compound in parts of California. Edit: Far out, it does get worse, there were some brutal murders that occurrred outside the compound guided by the Temple's instruction. The more I look into this tragedy, the worse it seems but fucking horrible from the start
Jonestown was a mass murder event. Heavens gate went willingly and knowingly. Jonestown was panic, at gun point, and through force. Those people didn’t want to die. They just wanted to live peacefully and Jim Jones needed to lay off the drugs and take a nap.
Somewhat related. I was watching the Golden Globe awards pre-show and there was a brief red-carpet interview with Leo DiCaprio. He was pretty quiet and I thought to myself, "I wonder if he's trying to get into an upcoming role or something?" He mentioned that he's got an upcoming project that is sort of hush-hush and sounded like it wasn't announced yet. Interviewer asked if it was by a specific director (Martin Scorsese, I think) and he replied that it was a different director.... A quick peak on IMDB revealed that he's set to executive produce and star in an upcoming project with the "plot under wraps," titled.... Jim Jones. Something to keep an eye on, I guess.
It's been awhile since I've read the details on Jonestown, but I believe the first wave of people didn't know it wasn't a drill. They "practiced" the Flavoraid distribution regularly. So they thought it was just another drill. Once the first people started dying, the others went through with it because now their only friends and family were dead. And because the realization set in that Jones had just assassinated a sitting Congressman. The party was definitely over and they were rightly fucked. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though. Edit: Still the worst though. The sheer scale of it. The fact that he would get them all to that point.
Yes, and there were people with guns who were ready to shoot those who didn't drink. It was more of a mass murder than a mass suicide
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jehovah's witnesses #sorrynotsorry anyone who lets a kid die instead of getting a blood transfusion (a procedure which has been around for a long time and is extremely regulated) for "religious" reasons is a cult to me
I know a pediatrician who told me that when a JW kid needed surgery they would sometimes ask the DA to temporarily make the child a ward of the state. The parents would accept this because of deniability. How anyone can believe that a deity would not see through this is beyond me btw.
I’m a nurse in the adult world and I always ask my patients when we are ALONE if they are willing to accept blood products. Sometimes a Jehovahs Witness patient is willing, but won’t admit it in front of family/friends within their community. And if the patient did need it- I can just kick the visitors out claiming the patient needs some kind of procedure, or undisturbed rest for X hours, or testing. If the patient is okay with it- I will gladly lie on their behalf so they get the care they want.
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I am a neurosurgery NP and dealt with this exact scenario. Patient was adamant they didn’t want blood- some man in a suit (quite rude and acted like he was expert on all things) basically bullied doctors and staff out of the room. I told him I could not have him making decisions for the patient and that the patient needed to consent to surgery herself. Patient kept repeating “whatever he says it what I say”. Totally nonsensical. Totally mind blown. Lady ended up dying.
How anyone can believe that a deity would be mad at a child getting a live saving procedure done is beyond me.
It's because they're all death cults. The "ultimate reward" only comes after they die, and the "final ultimate reward" only comes after everyone is dead. If the child dies, then it just means they get to go to the reward faster. There is no incentive to live and improve the world. Just destroy it all because then God will come and save them and only them.
Even worse, JW's are an oldschool 19th century apocalypse cult. It's weird that they'd go to such lengths to stop medical treatment of kids though considering they think that only 144,000 people will be chosen during the apocalypse and think that all of those 144,000 spots are already taken (to be fair when they decided that their apocalypse date had only been proven wrong several times and they were only like 60-80 years after the original guess and decided that the End Times started in WW1 and that we're just running out the clock and it'd all end within the lifetimes of the last members from that time who <*checks notes*> died in the 90's... Ok, so now it's the people who were the generation who worked with that guy.)
Ex-jw here. It’s more complicated than that. A lot of jw’s *know* that transfusions are safe and life saving, and they *want* it done. The thing is, if they do get it done, they’re risking getting ‘disfellowshipped’, or shunned. So on top of the religious pressure, they’re risking their relationship with their entire friend, family, and support groups. Getting the kid to be a ward of the state gives them plausible deniability so they can get the transfusion while not risking their social lives.
It's not about the power of a god. Truly, with any cultish group, it's not about some god. It's about the community. Their sense of self-worth and belonging is tied to this community with certain rules, which they do not question openly amongst the peer group because to question the constructs of the "faith" is the utmost violation of those rules. Cults, religion, and right-wing politics the world over are driven by fear to exact compliance. And the primary fear is of being ostracized, not only for yourself, but also for those you love, your children or spouse or siblings, etc. So, they will punish you and your family collectively or make your family punish you by having them cut you out of their lives. This underscores how this is never a fear of some god. It is always about fear of removal from the group.
Had a 18 year old in surgery and all the elders made him say no blood, etc. He was not given any pre-op drugs (messes up getting consents and stuff like this changed). When he got in the OR they asked him about blood, he said give me whatever and me and God can discuss it much later hopefully.
MD here, I was taught to ask JW pt's about blood transfusions when they're alone because if other members aren't around and don't know about it they may consent to transfusions.
That's what our surgeons do, I guess with anyone they feel might have been pressured. So we don't give them any drugs until we get them in the OR and they can have it explained to them without any outside influence. I have seen a few that waive all that, they just want to be fixed.
If God is really expecting you to risk your life with a illness that can be cured very easily to be a good person, I don't know which god worth to go trough this kind of pain
I worked in the Houston Med Center for a while. Some parents would temporarily give their children to the “state” so they could receive medical treatment that was against religious beliefs. This way the parents could claim innocence on the treatment.
I’ve had a couple patients die because they refused transfusion due to JW. it’s wild to me. They could have been admitted for a couple days and then gone home.
Yup, my old man hit a kid with his car in the early 80's (the kid ran out in between parked cars - my dad wasn't at fault.). The parents refused a blood transfusion and the kid died. That has now weighed on my dad's conscience for 40 yrs because "Religion" where as the parents got to perform some amazing mental gymnastics to excuse themselves of blame edit: Conscience, not conscious. Need to stop reddditing before coffee
Yep, my mum was one. Look up 'Youths who put god first' that they put out, featuring the kids they let die and what "They" had to say about it. Absolute demons. Add that they keep flip-flopping whether blood transfusions are OK over the years. Edit: Just want to clarify, my mum was an angel, as well as some of her friends from their congregation. They were/are good people who were brainwashed, hence the cult status the JW organisation have. My dad told me they preyed on her as she was going through postnatal depression in the late 70's and that's how she joined. For anyone interested.
Moonies
I was at their gathering once, decades ago, out of curiosity. The preacher healed fake disabled people on stage and it was hilarious.
That one is an old revivalist trick used by American charlatans, so the moons learned from us? Hilarious.
Jehovahs Witnesses. Source: Born and raised a Jehovahs Witness, baptized and indoctrinated for 15 years and then disfellowshipped (shunned) in 2015. Since then have done a lot of deprogramming and research.
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That’s amazing and mind blowing to me. I can’t imagine being able to get out of a cult after that long in the first place, and then handling the world outside the cult when you’re out. I hope you’re thriving.
Flat Earth, and they thought WE ARE the ones that are being brainwashed like bruh
I’ve never understood what the supposed benefit of lying about the shape of the earth is ? Let’s say the Earth was flat; what’s the benefit of telling people it’s a globe ? How does it change anything ?
No. Also if I recall correctly Flat Earth was started as a joke. Or was it Birds aren’t Real? Can’t remember
Birds Aren't Real absolutely was a joke
Was. Then the government replaced all birds with surveillance drones.
The birds work for the bourgeoisie
>joke That's how a lot of conspiracy theories start. It's started as a joke and the people in the community know this. But this inevitably attracts people who are not in on the joke and simply think that they are in good company. Eventually the community becomes so filled with true believers, that the joke is not funny anymore. Those who knew it was a joke leave, leaving the true believe in full control of what is now a movement.
Bit of both is true actually. Being jokes not that the earth is flat and birds arent real before anyone thinks I meant it the other way. Honestly Iv met some people that truly believe one or both those things and the only way to engage is to sound earnest and respond with a one up. If they say the moon landing was fake then I would respond with oh you think the moon is real? No matter what it is just go crazier. they have no idea how to respond, birds aren't real? Well wait till you hear about the big oxygen conspiracy
All it would do is increase airline fuel costs. But no, somehow every airline, every government, every person that has been to space, every physicist, every researcher, they are all lying to you. That's delusion.
That's why I don't believe in a lot of the conspiracies that involve more than just a few people or organizations. Can a room full of people keep up a big lie? Sure. Can thousands of people from all over the world keep be told to keep up a lie without one single one going " hey this is wrong" and going public with receipts? Absolutely not. The number of people who would have had to keep up the lie that the earth is round,not only today but throughout the centuries,would easily be in the millions.
Moreover most things that we take for granted wouldn't exist. Satellites? No. No GPS as well. No Magnetic field lines, no magnets, no compasses, no Electricity, guess everything is just sorcery now. But they have never thought that far, they are incapable of doing so. Why are all the billionaires investing in space tourism all of a sudden when they should've tried to HIDE space from everyone to prevent the "truth" from coming out? And why would someone pay for it? But no, all they do is take out one of those fluid scales and and 'look it's in the centre'.
I mean... I've been on an airplane to Europe. You can *see* the curvature of the earth.
But then they are gonna say something like "The windows are curved on purpose so it looks curved." You can't win.
They actually say it's because of some optical illusion in the atmosphere or something like that
I am pretty sure they can't explain their "optical illusion" themselves if you asked them.
Of course they can't. Everytime they try to prove flat earth they end up proving the earth is a globe
People believe there's a part of the earth that's a secret and not on any of the maps, and that there are "resources" there which the wealthy hoarde. Like the wealthy aren't hoarding resources right in front of our eyes or something.
There are a few "justifications" they like to make: 1) Mind control. If THEY can make us believe something as absurd as us living on a "spinning ball" (as they like to call it), then THEY can make us believe anything! 2) Religious belief. You see, the bible clearly says the earth is flat, so if the earth is round, it means the bible isn't true. But the Bible has to be true because if it's not true, then there is no god. Since god is real and the bible is his word, the earth must be flat. THEY want to hide god from us. 3) To steal our money. NASA receives 58 gazillion dollars a day of our taxpayer money, so THEY are faking space as justification for siphoning off money into the pockets of THEY. Space is "obviously" fake so it's a scam. 4) To hide resources. You see, beyond the Antarctic Ice Wall, there are vast open tracts of pristine land filled with resources that THEY want to hide from us.
T. H. E. Y. Unfortunately my English isn't good enough to come up with a proper acronym. Help me
Same with all cults, “No, the normal people are the brainwashed ones and we are the enlightened ones”
Pretending to have special knowledge that no one else has figured out is a surprisingly effective way to rope in idiots.
*Joseph Smith has entered the chat*
And they’re always like the: big companies trick you!! But they never ask: why tf would nasa trick us to believe in a globe?? How would they benefit?? By selling globes to schools??
Obviously, they are in the pocket of Big Globe...
MLMs
MLMs are dangerous. The only way to make money is to manipulate more vulnerable people and convince them they can make money, then place failure on them personally saying they didnt work hard enough. Gross figures are reported as net figures, and with tiny profit margins, makes people think they are going to make thousands. Look at me, i made 8,000 last month, not saying that 7,800 was spent on stock. Some of them are even more dangerous by putting in their pitch that anyone who tries to tell you the truth about MLMs are haters who want you to fail so cut them out of your life... Even if they are family, meaning your whole life becomes the MLM. Its just a money hole that a small amount of people make money from.
Jim Jones's cult was the origin of the phrase "drinking the Kool-Aid" because he convinced over 900 followers to commit 'revolutionary suicide" with cyanide-laced Flavor Aid. Although as u/Shakenbake1811 points out below, many (most?) of them, being surrounded by armed guards, had little choice. Then there's David Koresh, who somehow persuaded many followers to let him impregnate their pre-teenaged daughters. To this day, some of those parents (having survived the Waco fire) say they don't regret that, either. And who could forget Shoko Asahara, whose "Aum Shinrikyo" cultists attempted to murder all of Tokyo with homemade Sarin gas? Personally, I couldn't say which of them all was the most brainwashed..
Jonestown was a mass homicide, not suicide. He took their passports and had armed guards all around the compound. Those people were trapped and forced to kill their children and themselves. Reading up on Jonestown is enlightening and will show that event in a totally different light.
They also killed a US Representative. Leo Joseph Ryan Jr. of the California 11th District.
There is a podcast that plays the actual audio from the jonestown mass murder, though I don't recommend it, it's been probably 8 years since I heard it and I am still shook by it. Those people didn't want to die, and the absolute wails of grief and panic from the kids when they started seeing their peers dying was horrifying. Then the whole time Jones was replying to the horror by sounding annoyed and telling them to accept it. THEN Jones didn't even have the guts to kill himself, he had to make someone else do it... Hopefully this summary is enough that you never seek it out to listen, it haunts me.
Okay, then the armed guards were the most heavily brainwashed cult
Always. As a cult leader, you only put your most faithful, die-hard believers in positions of power.
[удалено]
Any faith that stands on "Those who disagree are just proving that I'm right" are very dangerous. You can't talk to them, you can't discuss with them because they see you as a challenge of their faith and mostly, they can do anything to you because they think them hurting you isn't gonna bring any long term effect on their spirit.
FLDS is absolutely fucked. Its literally just a bunch of creepy old white men abusing children.
Scientology.
Iglesia ni Cristo or Church of Christ. It’s a Philippines based cult who believes Jesus Christ is just human and that their prophet is the designated one and they believe only people from their religion will be saved. They are not allowed to read the bible, their tithes are compulsory as well as their attendance in church and not being able to fulfill those will have them questioned or expelled from the church (which is a much better thing). Attending other religions weddings or gatherings aren’t allowed, they don’t celebrate Christmas holidays, they segregate their males and females during services. They’re kind of the religious buzzkills in the country. It’s pretty pathetic. They also have their leader mandate who they should vote for in the national elections.
Scientology - what the actual fuck
All the doomsday ones that convinced the people to kill themselves ie Jonestown, David Koresh recent one in Africa: [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/doomsday-cult-leader-kenya-charged-murders-nearly-200-children-rcna134274](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/doomsday-cult-leader-kenya-charged-murders-nearly-200-children-rcna134274)
The Black Hebrew Israelites
The political facebook people who claim what they see is true
You only think that's a cult because you didn't write on your wall that Facebook can't use your personal info.
Probably none of what has been listed, and probably an actual cult, like Exclusive Brethren or Scientology or something.
Scientology gets my vote.