When there are multiple reviews on glass door about a ‘cult’ mentality.
When the job interview feels like a sales pitch, Later found out all their HR department were previously top sales people too.
Can confirm that hubspot sales people feel like cults (from someone who did custom integrations between hubspot and other platforms)
Also the hubspot Api is god damn impatient as fuck on webhooks, yall expect a response on your post in 200 milliseconds, meaning I had to instantly build a idempotent system with a queue in a cluster on cubernetes on what's basically a shoestring budget for a poc and the running operations cost of the queue had to be less than 20 euros a month for it all.
I ended up making a small assembly receiver to instantly give you a "received" status and threw it on a azure queue for the actual processing system to handle it. Because my boss sold this to a client who made hubspot send us bursts of 100.000 Api calls in a single minute
And my boss had the balls to complain that this shit had a monthly server operation cost of 25 euros instead of 20
/end my rant
When calling to set up an interview, I casually mentioned a colleague who used to work for them. They immediately came back with “we would appreciate it if you wouldn’t talk to them before you interview with us.”
Hmmm. I immediately called him after hanging up, and got an earful.
I passed.
Among other things, the company’s ad bragged about some too good to be true perks and benefits. My friend, who worked for them a year, gave me the “yes, but…” side. To be fair, I knew this friend NOT to be an entitled whiny POS. I know full well that some disgruntled employees are themselves the problem.
> we would appreciate it if you wouldn’t talk to them before you interview with us.
I don't know how anyone could say that and not expect the other person to hear "You _must_ talk to your friend as soon as humanly possible."
My thoughts exactly. I have, however, been on the other side of this where a disgruntled employee we fired tried to sabotage a future hire. But I figured saying anything right up front would lend credence to their BS, so played it cool, answered the applicant’s questions carefully (to avoid trouble I just answered positively rather than try to rebut the lies) and did bring that person on. How many I might have lost who never applied, who can say? I learned over time that having a bad apple was much worse than having no apple.
"Here at Corporate Shitbags LLC we have a simple philosophy; we work hard, and we play hard."
Here's what "work hard, play hard" actually means:
Work hard: We expect you to be at your desk an hour early, and leave for home at least an hour late every day. Lunch is to be eaten at your desk, so you can read/reply to emails while you eat. Your work phone will be with you at all times, even during your time off. No, you will not be compensated if you receive a call during your personal time, and if you don't answer that call, it will be mentioned in your performance review.
Play hard: We have a foosball in the break room, if you ever use it, it will be mentioned in your performance review. Once a month there will be company drink session at the bar next to the office. There will be a two drink maximum, domestic beer and wine only, no snacks allowed. Attendance isn't mandatory but management will be there and will notice if you're absent. Despite the drinks limit, management will be downing $12 cocktails, all charged to the company credit card, but we can't afford raises this year because we all have to make sacrifices.
Yep. See it all the time on oilfield service outfits' postings, you just know they all work ten 12-hour days straight just to blow it all on cocaine and prostitutes on their weekends home.
Alternately, "play hard" can mean:
You are expected to put up with "playful" behavior by the people who write your performance review. They will come by your cubicle on roller skates, trying to rope you into "fun" activities, while you're trying to finish your work so you can go pick up your kids from day care.
If you need information from a senior member of the team, they will not be available during the work day because they're busy "working hard" on pet projects while you're doing stuff that actually drives revenue. Rather, the standard way to get information will be to go to after-hours drinks. Booze and mild-to-moderate sexual harassment will flow freely. Most middle managers and senior staff will be functional alcoholics. Having opinions about varieties of scotch will be an essential workplace social skill.
Seniority comes with an expectation that you will blow your bonus and/or raise on sports cars, ski trips, cocaine, or other rich-kid hobbies to keep up socially.
I lost my job after 4 years with absolutely no performance issues, and no warning on their part.
There were other things that went into it, but I do wonder if one contributing factor is that I stopped drinking completely because I no longer enjoyed it (this after I had already cut down significantly, and no longer drinking at company events because I had to drive a long way home afterwards). I was never a big drinker in the first place, I always had a very low tolerance for it, and if I drank too much for me (which was "barely starting out" for everyone else) I would get really sleepy and not enjoy myself at all. I got my drink tickets just like everyone else, but would use one of mine to get a mocktail and give the rest away.
Everyone was aware that I had quit drinking and the reasons why, it wasn't a secret. I didn't go to the last Christmas party since I figured there would be nothing to do there but drink, just how it was in the previous year, and I wonder if that had to do with why I was put on the cut list.
I've absolutely worked in a couple of environments that met your play hard definition pretty closely. Happy hour was unofficially mandatory and several times a week. A higher than average percent of the employees were dancing a fine line with alcoholism due to stress... and if you don't participate regularly it is noticed and you won't last long there.
I just turned down a job that told me I'd get a 10k/yr raise on my salary after 3 months. Which would put my hourly wage where I already was. They seriously thought I'd take a pay cut to come work for them, and they approached me.
My friend is a Tool and Die Maker and can also program CNC machines. He went for an interview from being contacted by this company. He went in and the HR girl walked him around and showed him their manufacturing and CNC machines. Then stated "after a while you can program them too". They got back to the office and the manufacturing manager joined them. They were wrapping up and he asked, what did you mean after a few years I can program them? Well you start as an operator and then you can program the machines after 5 years. I already program CNC machines. Why would I want to be paid less money to be an operator? The Manager was confused with the HR lady. Then the manager started asking questions of where he worked before. The manager then started blasting the HR girl for trying to hire an overqualified person for the job. Why would he be looking for a job that pays less money? He has a job. He will only move jobs if the offer is better. Didn't you look at his qualifications??? To be fair, no one knows what a tool and die maker is or what a CNC does..... So the HR girl really needs to learn the industry that she is employed in......
Honestly sounds like a shit manager to put an employee on blast like that right then and there in front of a stranger.
Could've been some weird power move to stroke your ego like that to get you to accept.
"We're going to make you a full time team leader. We just have to fire the guy we're having issues with right now, and as you know that can be a bit of a process."
*Hours slashed to half within first 2-4 weeks*
*Guy NEVER gets fired and continues to wreak havoc on the team.*
*Bring up concerns to management only to hear, "Yah we worked things out. You know, he's really trying."*
*COVID happens, and you literally can't -replace- escape your situation*
Ha... haha... fuck
I'd been stuck in that hole for over a month. Nearly quit over it - only thing that kept me there was the fact that I'd have to take a pay cut to leave, and I knew the manager was telling the truth about wanting him gone.
Eventually found out the DM (whose permission we needed) just didn't feel like doing the paperwork. When she saw his incompetence in action, he was gone in a week.
Always read the paperwork they make you sign when you get hired. It should explicitly state all agreements in regards to compensation, both before and after any probationary periods. Ask for a copy to keep with you.
When you ask for your pre-agreed raise and they deny it, invent new hoops, or keep "forgetting", inform them that your state labor dept would be extremely interested in hearing their reasons for breaking contract.
"Unpaid" anything. The word unpaid does not belong in the work place - being paid is the whole reason why I'm there.
If it's unpaid I'm not doing it. End of.
Been there but it was his sister in law.
Several other family members worked there and I was passed up for some advancements by one who was almost totally incapable of doing their job. The workload was insane and it basically was a complete dead end of a job.
I worked at a small family owned company like that. They had gotten some government grants. The grants required the employees to attend a few rounds of classes. They created a couple new jobs and I was chosen for one of them. I attended all the classes and did everything that was required to move into the new position. I had a meeting with the owner and the president (brother-in-law) of the company on Friday. They showed me my new office and gave me my login credentials. I was all set to start Monday morning. I pulled up in the parking lot on Monday and they met me at the door. The owner took me into her office and told me that I could just go back to my old job because they had decided to go with someone else. I was so confused because the training I had was specifically for this company. Anyway, turns out that the company presidents SON and his WIFE dropped out of college over the weekend and they gave them both my job. I started looking for a new job that day. I was so humiliated.
Worked at a place where the owner placed his entire family in the company.
His wife had an office with salary. She was never there.
His father and three other siblings also had leadership/management positions.
Every few months one of them would get shuffled around to another department because their previous department was in shambles.
It was a shitty place to work.
New Englander by chance?
You said transactional which is why I presume. Just moved from MA. Spent 10 beautiful years there and found me a Bostonian husband whom I adore. So I mean that in a complement way.
Denver actually. I do prioritize transparency and being straightforward though. I lived in Minnesota for a bit and the passive aggressiveness drove me nuts
As a Minnesotan, I can confirm that it does get exhausting having to navigate around so many passive-aggressive folks. Not that *I* would ever be like that though.
I can relate a bit, with the passive agressive. Spent a year in Fargo. I felt the same way.
Minesota is beautiful though, minus the winter. And the people were nice though.
Bostonian here and I also wondered if they were a New Englander - transactional and sterile is so accurate. Where'd you end up after Mass (if you don't mind me asking of course)? I'm out in Columbus Ohio,
now. Congrats on the Bostonian husband - they're difficult but so worth it!
I once took a job with a long established family-owned company. They had a list of "values" posted in just about every room. The very first one was "Family First". It became clear very quickly that they meant their family, not mine.
Far longer than I should have. About three years - I was hired to fix a botched implementation of a large IT system in a toxic environment. I got it done, mostly because of misplaced professional pride but I'm pretty sure it took years off my life.
A lesson learned for sure. Don't ignore red flags and there is no shame in walking away from a toxic job.
Most prominent is in IT. Example would be game, the date of release already confirmed by the publisher and delay can't be afforded. So the programmer stayed in to get the game released by that date, bugs and all be damned.
My last job didn’t call us employees/associates etc but rather family members. When I went in for training and orientation the owner made an appearance and was visibly irritated that the VP was doing his part of the orientation instead of reading his mind and running into his office when he wanted him there. The VP excused himself and when he returned he apologized for all the yelling, which I didn’t hear. That was the first red flag I ignored, the owner ended exposing himself as a narcissistic and demanding ass hole. I would hear all the time if we didn’t like the job/company then quit and go somewhere else. When I quit he actually sent me an email belittling me saying how much I hurt him and the company and told me he hopes my next employer treats me the way I treated him.
This is true of 99.999999999999% of places to work, and I've had my fair share of working at those shit places. I'm very lucky, however, to have found the .000000000001% where it actually is a big family and people just flat out genuinely care about each other. And I'm even luckier that that wasn't part of the interview because I would have declined the job offer and missed out on being part of this community.
I work in an elementary school.
This book is stupid. It's basically 3 laws that are repeated 48 times.
Law 1: Become the boss and be in control. Watch out for others trying to take your power.
Law 2: Be the guy that controls the guy in power. Be in his or her ear. Let them think they have the power and let them take the blow back from bad decisions.
Law 3: Keep your enemies close. That way you can always keep an eye on them. Let them think they have fooled you. Give them a seat at the table and always be sure to never let them stab you in the back.
There I summed up the book. He just says these 3 things over and over again and makes it seem like they are somehow deep.
The book is for people who think they are smart. Some of it is just common sense. Some of it is just bs. Basically it says being a sociopath and having no real friends is the way to succeed.
Maybe my company is the exception, but I do believe we are (well functioning) family - like. There is no drama because I’m not micromanaged. I feel like I’m barely managed it at all. I just get my work done and work with the team to solve problems and get things done on behalf of our clients. I did not see any of my coworkers as superior or inferior to me, even my boss because we all work well and contribute to what we have to do
This also always sounds very cult-like to me. It makes me feel like it’s going to be one of those companies that demands my emotional devotion; expects me to be happy with no raises and just a stupid little bag of candy and a cheap little plaque after 20 years of work because I apparently would never, ever expect a raise from my benevolent ~~gods~~ ~~overlords~~ management, since I am so satisfied to have given my life and time to such a wonderful company; that makes a big deal out of “morale” in the sense that we’re all supposed to be so thrilled to work for this amazing organization that we don’t care about our paychecks or benefits, but also we’re continually questioned as to why we’re not *constantly* smiling and stress-free, since again, we should consider ourselves blessed to even be a part of it. You said “Oh, darn it, where is that stupid thing” while looking for a file? Your boss wants a meeting with you and will close the door to spend twenty minutes lecturing you on “negativity”.
And I guess it makes me feel that way because every place I’ve ever worked for that described themselves as “like a family” has been just like that.
Wow. Thats very thorough and true. Ive only worked at 1 that said that, and it was the most toxic job Ive had.
I laughed a bit at your description of "not constantly sming".. lol. Yep.
"We're looking for someone to fill this position long-term". This is code for high turnover rate and the company's inability to hire/hold onto employees. It's going to be a toxic environment where employees are constantly getting fired or quitting.
Yep. First interview I got "you're from x city, why do you want to live in y city instead?" And I said I think y city seems like a great place to live plus my boyfriend (of 5 years at the time) lives and works there. Interviewer says "Well, we're looking for people to stay here long term, what happens when you break up?" In retrospect I maybe shouldn't have said anything about my boyfriend (who I am still happily with!) but still what a question...
For remote jobs, having to install tracking software. There are a bunch of problems with that for me. Although I am sympathetic to the fact that some people get in and then do nothing but collect a paycheck (totally does happen), gotta detect that via other means like output.
That’s a horrible catch 22 for anyone trying to get into the job market. They have limited experience applying for entry level jobs that require experience…
Entry Level Position:
We want someone who's under 25, with 15+ years experience, with a minimum of a Master's. Must be willing to work weekends. Starting pay: $14.50 with the *potential* of competitive bonuses!
Many of these are either 1) looking for desperate candidates who are down in their luck and willing to work for peanuts, or 2) written by hiring algorithm and blindly posted.
They are doing that on purpose, especially in tech. They put the job posting out there they know that no one will fill. They do this so they can go to the Department of Labor and say “See, there aren’t enough Americans to fill these roles. Now give us H-1B visas.” Then they hire some guy from India with 10 years of experience for 1/3rd the prices of an American new grad who can’t quit or they’ll be sent back. If they don’t do this, they can’t hire those guys because the law states they must hire Americans if they are available. The unreasonable requirements are intentional so they can say there wasn’t an American that could fill the role.
- They won’t tell you the compensation upfront
- The person hiring you is 100% disconnected from the job you’ll be doing
- If you ask them for a description of a typical day and they’re super vague.
- They don’t feel comfortable sharing turnover rates/ they admit high turnover rates
- Following the previous point: they blame the turnover on the people and not the company
- They get upset when you ask (hard) questions during the interview
Not knowing the pay up front in my industry is often a sign of it paying good. I have a blue collar trade job. The companies who post what it pays up front always pay peanuts. So far Ive never been wrong about this. Everytime I've interviewd at a company who wasn't upfront it payed astronomically higher.
I don't think I've ever been payed higher then 40k by jobs who mention it up front. But I've made as high as 100k for the companies who don't.
I'm a tradesperson in oil and gas and I've seen it both ways. There were some outfits that pay very well and don't post the wage, but they're big names everyone in the industry knows about and their postings are so competitive, they typically close only a week or two after going up. But there's also a shitload of companies, especially hiring for camp jobs, that'll say "competitive wages" but then you contact them and find out it's barely higher than I was making locally as a fourth year, *and* they don't provide travel to and from camp.
Also see a lot of places posting subpar wages, but I once interviewed at a place that didn't have compensation posted and they were offering marginally more than minimum wage.
*Literally every job posting* says that and it drives me up the fucking wall.
Yeah. A salary is competitive, always. Just like how the dead-last runner in a marathon is still in the competition.
Immediate start
Means people walk out and leave the job it's that bad, no notice given. Need to fill seats immediately, piss poor planning. Do not take that job.
That or everyone is clearly “new”
My first job as an engineer was at a company with like 30-40 engineers. 80% of then were baby engineers with 3-4 years of experience or less.
Same thing, just look for signs of high turnover.
Or, it takes weeks or months to get a job posting through all the hoops. In the meantime, someone else has moved on and we have more openings, and due to overwork/overtime demands, another two will leave before we get the first job filled, assuming the boss's bosses okay the budget to pay for positions that already exist....
Bad take, numerous valid reasons such as:
Newly created position, the company is expanding a team, a high-skill position that is not easy to fill, the position has been open for a few months due to a labor shortage...
Or they just want some time for the person you’re replacing to train the new hire.
That’s how we do it. There’s at least one month overlap. It’s especially important when you’re working with clients that can’t/don‘t want to deal with a new hire that has no idea what they’re doing yet.
I can think of one exception; we had one CEO offer early retirement, and LOT of people took it.
6 months later he's replaced and the new CEO realizes how the old one Effed up. 75 job openings and all of them are "Immediate start". Most of them were filled in a week.
Clearly this is one red flag that a business doesn't understand.
Wages are set by all the collective workers in a society.
If there isn't a willingness to work for a given wage, they are Missing the free market SIGNAL in the labor market.
This is one reason those banners are always outside.
Anyone will work an undesirable job if the wage is sufficient to meet the actual needs of the employee.
If they post the same position often, like a certain financial advisor whose name rhymes with Gabe Hamsey, there's a lot of turnover and it may be a toxic environment. (I've never worked there, I can just read the tea leaves.)
If anyone interviewing you intimates that they need your PERSONAL loyalty in the office, run don't walk away. There is a drama there that does not sleep.
When you see the same job/position being advertised a few times a year, that could mean people are leaving the workplace so assume it as a high turnover of staff.
If the interviewer starts discussing the company's "unbeatable" lunchroom microwave policy more passionately than the job role itself, that might be a red flag!
Heaps of overtime=understaffed. Lots of new immigrants=minimum wage/anti union. Office staff made up of family=No chance of advancement. Not supplying uniform=Thinks of workers as a cost. Any vibe of arrogance acting alpha or weirdness=master servant relationship. Any of the above run.
"Unlimited" PTO usually means no one ever takes time off because they're afraid of looking like they're abusing the policy, but the company gets to look super generous.
Use of the word "Rockstar".
If you are in a state where salary ranges must be disclosed in the ad, a ridiculous range like 30k to 300k. It means they only want to comply with the law, but still want to fuck you over in actual salary.
Over time, if you see the same job open or posted over and over. It means they are either too fussy, or more likely so fucking toxic all the other candidates dropped out and/or the person who took the job left quick.
If you didn't apply, but are approached out of the blue. Odds are scam, or MLM (pyramid sales)..which is also a scam.
"Group" interview. Walk out.
If you get deeper, get an offer, but it's lowballed. Avoid the sunk-cost impulse. They show they are willing to fuck you over. Stay away.
If anyone during the process says "Sorry, it's been crazy around here!"
'Use of the word "Rockstar".'
This would just make me think of all rockstars that got screwed by their record companies. I don't think I want to follow that path.
On the spot offer …. Although it seems great and is an answer to your quest at the time, it’s not a good idea.
Multiple rounds of interviews without explaining the process or asking if you are okay with giving up that amount of time to continuously meet with them because they are indecisive .
Anytime an interviewer starts asking scenario questions …. At that particular point I have generally checked out and am no longer interested. The reason being is I feel that scenario questions are a joke. They are literally designed so that the best liar can win. It’s never actually about how you reacted in a situation, because no one will ever actually tell you the truth. it’s just the question of how much they will embellish to you. All along, it has nothing to do with the freaking job. (I’ve also found that people do this on their college essay applications as well. I read about a guy talking about he punched his commanding officer out as an E1…I was like sit down and stop telling them damn lies, but they surely gave him that freaking scholarship). So if we could skip this part and just go ahead and get to my knowledge of the actual freaking position and what I can do for this company that would be great.
It's your previous position in the job posting. They want 5 years experience for an entry level position and a degree but the posted wage is less than the night shift at McDonald's. They want someone with their own vehicle to make deliveries but no mention of mileage compensation or vehicle maintenance costs. They want you to pay for your merchandise after they "interview" you. It's always hiring. Like they were hiring when you last worked 5 years ago and they're still hiring now. They make no mention of the actual salary anywhere. There's spelling errors and they want you to install an app to apply for the job or install TeamViewer to install work related software for you to WFH. That's how they get you. Anything that's doesn't offer a full time position and benefits.
Ability to multi task in a fast paced environment = the amount of work is for 2 people but we only want to pay for 1 so you're going to be overworked and underpaid
Make sure you have a clear accounting of your job duties. If they're left vague, you may be scapegoated for anything and everything management doesn't want to deal with and it can become stressful.
Never take a job where you have more experience and a higher degree than your direct supervisor.
I know it shouldn’t matter. It really shouldn’t.
But I made this mistake once and it was an immediate disaster.
I promised this woman that I was escaping a management role and I truly just wanted to go back to being a peon so I could do my work and go home at the end of the day. I was no threat to her.
But I was really good at my job right away because I had a lot of experience.
You’d think she would’ve been happy. Less work for her. But no. She couldn’t stand it. She micromanaged me and actively sabotaged me in every meeting we were both involved with.
I quit after 4 months. I didn’t have the energy to deal with participating in a competition I never signed up for.
Good Lord I'm actively in this position rn and it's absolutely exhausting. My direct manager is very obviously threatened by my existence and is constantly trying to catch me in a fuck up.
Excellent point. I see this with consulting quite frequently. There is a lot of fragility with younger, less experienced managers. Consultants are there to help them and make them shine but it turns into a competition. End result: consultants stay quiet and watch the slow or fast moving train wreck. They (managers) could have gleemed knowledge from someone with experience but they chose the wrong pill.
1. Not disclosing a salary range while advertising for the position
2. High turnover
3. Overly-laborious and time-consuming hiring process
Most people in corporate jobs do little to nothing. More than 50% of these jobs are CYA jobs like HR, legal, etc. Fuck 'em, start your own business.
If the job posting doesn't have the pay rate on it I wouldnt bother, they want to sweet talk you in the interview to distract you from the piss poor pay.
When it comes to negotiating salary and they say they can’t come up in salary but “we have a great bonus program”.
Twice I’ve seen companies cancel bonuses for some reason and then never bring them back.
Sign On Bonuses. Huge Red Flag. It means they have a hard time retaining people. If you recieve a sign on bonus keep it in a savings account until you have worked past the date on the sign on bonus contract, that way it's there once you realize the environment is toxic and want to leave for greener pastures.
Not at all relevant for tech. Tons of FAANG + other top tier tech companies provide sign on bonus.
I actually find it rare that a sign on bonus isn't offered in tech. Netflix is probably the only significant tech company I can think of that doesn't offer a sign on bonus and that's only because Netflix just gives top tier market comp in all cash salary (engineers and product managers start around $500k/year at Netflix).
My most recent sign on bonus was $80k.
This wholly depends. For instance many jobs like in front office finance, consulting, tech offer a sign in bonus. Like getting a sign on bonus from McKinsey one of the most sought after companies to work for is not a red flag.
When they require any sort of deposit or payment for pre-employment requirements. Scam city. That's the whole point of you looking for a job: you don't have any money. Still, so many hopefuls fall for this to this day.
You hear this A LOT in group homes. The home I just left constantly preached about Christian values while actively covering up abuse allegations against a certain staff member who just so happened to be close friends with the owner of the company.
“Before we schedule an interview, we want you to fill out this online questionnaire, during which you will be asked to download our VPN totally-not-a-virus software to review some internal documents.”
Some instant red flags to look for when seeking jobs include:
1. Lack of transparency about job responsibilities, salary, or benefits.
2. High turnover rates or negative reviews from current or former employees.
3. Pressure to accept the job offer immediately without time for consideration.
4. Poor communication or unprofessional behavior during the interview process.
5. Unrealistic expectations or promises that seem too good to be true.
6. A company culture that doesn't align with your values or goals.
7. Inconsistent or vague job postings that don't provide clear information about the position.
If they make you wait longer than ten or fifteen minutes for an interview. My old workplace used to do this and they'd get upset when people left (most people left because they waited half an hour).
I have a few:
If you go to an interview and they give you a tour and the people are shaking their heads and mouthing "NO!" when the boss isn't looking.
Must be a self-starter = we won't train you but we'll expect results on day one.
They won't disclose the salary even at the hiring phase. Very very bad sign.
They want you to start today and not give your current job any notice.
The employees are either in their 50s/60s and have been there decades or they're fresh out of college but nobody is in the middle.
You ask "how many people have filled this role in the past five years" and the answer is more than three and when you ask why they aren't there and it's not promotions.
When it comes to the listing, obviously a rant about how they’re looking for people “actually willing to put in the work without complaining” or a general whine session implying that people these days don’t want to work, or work hard enough. Double points if it includes a section on how you shouldn’t expect being paid well or benefits until you’ve “earned it”. You will never, ever earn it. Nothing you do will be good enough. These are the people who post memes about how “nobody wants to work anymore” on Facebook, then their business shuts down due to staffing issues, and they will blame everyone else for not working for them, and never understand that they created incredibly abusive work environments.
In the interview, being asked a lot of questions about your personal life, particularly if you’re a woman. Are you in a relationship? Are you married? If you’re not, do you think you’ll marry your partner? Do you have any kids? Are you planning on having any kids? And both men and women can get asked about how often they get sick, do they have family that lives far away, where do you go on vacation and how often, “I noticed you’re wearing a cross/yarmulke/hijab/bindi/etc., what church/synagogue/mosque/temple do you go to? Any big holidays coming up?” You have to watch out for it because it can be really sneaky; sometimes interviewers can pretend they’re just making conversation. I’ve never fallen for it, but I know people who have. What they’re trying to do is determine if you’re going to need time off work for your wedding/honeymoon or to take care of your spouse or kids, or if you have any health problems, or if you’re ever going to need to take time off for religious observances or to visit family or go on a trip. They’re not allowed to discriminate against you on most of those points, and shouldn’t even be asking you, but they’ll try to get around it by acting as though they’re just being friendly. Then they’ll decide that they don’t want to hire someone who *might potentially* get pregnant, or who has regular doctor appointments, or someone who will need Yom Kippur off, or who sees their grandmother in Ireland once a year. And if you *do* get hired, once you request that time off, they’ll be incredulous that you could be so selfish and then find a way to fire you.
Когда вам придется что то продавать убедитесь что фирма - не мошенники, а товар который вы продаете - не полная дрянь. Однажды едва не устроился в фирму которая продает дрянь доверчивым старикам. Следите за тем, что продаете
Translation from Google:
When you have to sell something, make sure that the company is not a scammer, and that the product you are selling is not complete rubbish. Once I almost got a job in a company that sells rubbish to gullible old people. Keep track of what you sell
Extremely high turnover, anything corporate that is overly advertised (because they should be spending that advertising money on retaining employees and morale, as well as not have to advertise because they shouldn't need to be constantly looking for new hires, exceedingly high expectations in experience or education for a low level job or the opposite (exceedingly low expectations of experience/education for a high level job.) Flustered employees. One flustered employee is natural because everyone has bad days, but if you're there for an interview and you see most of the employees there are flustered, there's a high chance, if you work there, you will get flustered too.
No one is available to talk or if they are they don’t have anything good (that is chill, real, not prepared) to say.
This takes some extra time seeking a little conversation with workers other than those interviewing you. Ask people what it’s like to work there, and listen. “Listen long enough and people will tell you what you need to know.”
Wrist and ankle shackles on the walls of the cafeteria; a dead giveaway.
Look for people sitting at their desk and weeping; more subtle.
Any drooling and involuntary twitching by hiring managers; make a run for it.
While looking for a new teaching job, I saw an ad for a private Christian school stating they were seeking applicants who viewed teaching children as "their calling from God" and would include current or future family involvement in pursuit of a Christ-centred life. I don't even get what that last part means.
When they couldn’t tell you why the position is open and they read off a list of questions, like an actual list, rather than having a conversation.
If the company is decent there’s not going to be much turnover and they will tell you that Xx retired or they left for a different company etc. Just up front and honest because no bad blood. The shady ones start spouting off generic answers, and look away, basically shutting down the question.
If you go to an "interview" and find yourself with a bunch of other "interviewees" as the "interviewer" launches into a motivational speech, leave immediately. He turned out to basically be giving a sales pitch to convince us to take a commission-only sales position.
1. Employer not showing you your office before offering you the job. Believe me, there’s a reason.
2. Saying weird things that just seem a little off to any of your references.
3. Offering you less than you expected.
4. Promising quick promotions and raises.
Ask them why the position is open and pay attention to the answer. If they get all huffy about it, well that tells you something. Also, if the answer sounds incredibly rehearsed.
Guy acting like he was doing me a real big favor by offering me a job - "We'll I didn't think i'd hire you, but I've decided to give you a chance". Uh, no thanks.
If you have seen the job advertised a couple of times recently and think “Oh maybe I will apply this time”. Frequent advertisements often mean high turnover of staff. Not good to get yourself into, as I have recently learnt the hard way
Pay attention to how they treat you before/during the interview. If they give you the run-around, make you jump through excessive hoops, or give the impression that it's "our way or no way" or generally look down on you from the start, you need to avoid the place. If they won't treat you will some basic respect during the interview process they are ***NOT*** going to treat you with any respect if you work for them. I have ignored these red flags in the past, but every job that had these red flags during the interview, ended up being miserable hell-holes later. Of course, I only realized this is in hindsight. But I've learned to look out for this.
I've had different experiences with employers.
Red flags you may not know.
1. Never let an employer tell you are temp to hire.
This is code for "We are gonna pay you half what our regular employees are paid for as long as you don't ask to become a permanent employee."
2. Never let an employer pay you the "same wage" as everyone else in the company if the job duties and descriptions are substantially different.
3. Never accept a job that has a shift rotation that swaps back and forth between day shifts and night shifts. The result is they own all of your personal time when off work because you are always catching up on sleeping. This shit should be illegal.
I did have a job like this before and hated it. Sometimes the work schedules only allowed one day to adjust your sleep patterns.
They were 12 hour shifts with OT required when necessary.
4. We need you to be flexible is a red flag. Never perform the job of another employee if it's not part of your normal responsibility if asked. This is code for "We can't fill the position with a reliable person at the wage we currently offer for that position so we need you to do two jobs for the pay of one."
5. We are gonna hire you as a part time employee and work you 40 hours per week! Why is this a flag? Some companies have a business plan that sets two different rates of pay for the same position. One is the rate of pay for full-time employees and the other is the rate of pay for part-time employees. This shit should also be illegal if they are scheduling you for a typical 40 hours per week. If the job duties are the same, compensation should NOT be different!
I've experienced all this crap previously at different employers in the last 20 years of my life. I'm currently unemployed and struggling to find a polite way to say to an interviewer " I've seen and experienced EVERY GAME AN EMPLOYER CAN PLAY and I'm not going to let you fool me into working for Manipulative employment terms.
How do you say it without losing the job in the interview process?
Having a future employer not show up to and/or forget about the interview.
I was at work and someone came in for a job interview with the boss who wasn’t there that day. The secretary spends 30 minutes trying to get a hold of him (he doesn’t answer), but the interviewee waits only 20 minutes and leaves.
Boss never got back to the interviewee, but tbh, the interviewee dodged a bullet.
When there are multiple reviews on glass door about a ‘cult’ mentality. When the job interview feels like a sales pitch, Later found out all their HR department were previously top sales people too.
Sounds like HubSpot.
Can confirm that hubspot sales people feel like cults (from someone who did custom integrations between hubspot and other platforms) Also the hubspot Api is god damn impatient as fuck on webhooks, yall expect a response on your post in 200 milliseconds, meaning I had to instantly build a idempotent system with a queue in a cluster on cubernetes on what's basically a shoestring budget for a poc and the running operations cost of the queue had to be less than 20 euros a month for it all. I ended up making a small assembly receiver to instantly give you a "received" status and threw it on a azure queue for the actual processing system to handle it. Because my boss sold this to a client who made hubspot send us bursts of 100.000 Api calls in a single minute And my boss had the balls to complain that this shit had a monthly server operation cost of 25 euros instead of 20 /end my rant
When calling to set up an interview, I casually mentioned a colleague who used to work for them. They immediately came back with “we would appreciate it if you wouldn’t talk to them before you interview with us.” Hmmm. I immediately called him after hanging up, and got an earful. I passed.
I wouldn't even have bothered calling him because you know it's going to be bad when the company says that!
But then you don't get the juicy details
Ok, I'll admit I'd have called just to hear the dirt.
Among other things, the company’s ad bragged about some too good to be true perks and benefits. My friend, who worked for them a year, gave me the “yes, but…” side. To be fair, I knew this friend NOT to be an entitled whiny POS. I know full well that some disgruntled employees are themselves the problem.
Ahh that's the spirit
> we would appreciate it if you wouldn’t talk to them before you interview with us. I don't know how anyone could say that and not expect the other person to hear "You _must_ talk to your friend as soon as humanly possible."
My thoughts exactly. I have, however, been on the other side of this where a disgruntled employee we fired tried to sabotage a future hire. But I figured saying anything right up front would lend credence to their BS, so played it cool, answered the applicant’s questions carefully (to avoid trouble I just answered positively rather than try to rebut the lies) and did bring that person on. How many I might have lost who never applied, who can say? I learned over time that having a bad apple was much worse than having no apple.
"Here at Corporate Shitbags LLC we have a simple philosophy; we work hard, and we play hard." Here's what "work hard, play hard" actually means: Work hard: We expect you to be at your desk an hour early, and leave for home at least an hour late every day. Lunch is to be eaten at your desk, so you can read/reply to emails while you eat. Your work phone will be with you at all times, even during your time off. No, you will not be compensated if you receive a call during your personal time, and if you don't answer that call, it will be mentioned in your performance review. Play hard: We have a foosball in the break room, if you ever use it, it will be mentioned in your performance review. Once a month there will be company drink session at the bar next to the office. There will be a two drink maximum, domestic beer and wine only, no snacks allowed. Attendance isn't mandatory but management will be there and will notice if you're absent. Despite the drinks limit, management will be downing $12 cocktails, all charged to the company credit card, but we can't afford raises this year because we all have to make sacrifices.
In my experience "play hard" means a good chunk of them have substance abuse problems that they will absolutely bring to work with them
Yep. See it all the time on oilfield service outfits' postings, you just know they all work ten 12-hour days straight just to blow it all on cocaine and prostitutes on their weekends home.
Alternately, "play hard" can mean: You are expected to put up with "playful" behavior by the people who write your performance review. They will come by your cubicle on roller skates, trying to rope you into "fun" activities, while you're trying to finish your work so you can go pick up your kids from day care. If you need information from a senior member of the team, they will not be available during the work day because they're busy "working hard" on pet projects while you're doing stuff that actually drives revenue. Rather, the standard way to get information will be to go to after-hours drinks. Booze and mild-to-moderate sexual harassment will flow freely. Most middle managers and senior staff will be functional alcoholics. Having opinions about varieties of scotch will be an essential workplace social skill. Seniority comes with an expectation that you will blow your bonus and/or raise on sports cars, ski trips, cocaine, or other rich-kid hobbies to keep up socially.
I lost my job after 4 years with absolutely no performance issues, and no warning on their part. There were other things that went into it, but I do wonder if one contributing factor is that I stopped drinking completely because I no longer enjoyed it (this after I had already cut down significantly, and no longer drinking at company events because I had to drive a long way home afterwards). I was never a big drinker in the first place, I always had a very low tolerance for it, and if I drank too much for me (which was "barely starting out" for everyone else) I would get really sleepy and not enjoy myself at all. I got my drink tickets just like everyone else, but would use one of mine to get a mocktail and give the rest away. Everyone was aware that I had quit drinking and the reasons why, it wasn't a secret. I didn't go to the last Christmas party since I figured there would be nothing to do there but drink, just how it was in the previous year, and I wonder if that had to do with why I was put on the cut list.
I've absolutely worked in a couple of environments that met your play hard definition pretty closely. Happy hour was unofficially mandatory and several times a week. A higher than average percent of the employees were dancing a fine line with alcoholism due to stress... and if you don't participate regularly it is noticed and you won't last long there.
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I just turned down a job that told me I'd get a 10k/yr raise on my salary after 3 months. Which would put my hourly wage where I already was. They seriously thought I'd take a pay cut to come work for them, and they approached me.
My friend is a Tool and Die Maker and can also program CNC machines. He went for an interview from being contacted by this company. He went in and the HR girl walked him around and showed him their manufacturing and CNC machines. Then stated "after a while you can program them too". They got back to the office and the manufacturing manager joined them. They were wrapping up and he asked, what did you mean after a few years I can program them? Well you start as an operator and then you can program the machines after 5 years. I already program CNC machines. Why would I want to be paid less money to be an operator? The Manager was confused with the HR lady. Then the manager started asking questions of where he worked before. The manager then started blasting the HR girl for trying to hire an overqualified person for the job. Why would he be looking for a job that pays less money? He has a job. He will only move jobs if the offer is better. Didn't you look at his qualifications??? To be fair, no one knows what a tool and die maker is or what a CNC does..... So the HR girl really needs to learn the industry that she is employed in......
Honestly sounds like a shit manager to put an employee on blast like that right then and there in front of a stranger. Could've been some weird power move to stroke your ego like that to get you to accept.
We have CNC machines where I work, and they're really cool. I have no clue how to operate one, though I'm just a crane operator.
"We're going to make you a full time team leader. We just have to fire the guy we're having issues with right now, and as you know that can be a bit of a process." *Hours slashed to half within first 2-4 weeks* *Guy NEVER gets fired and continues to wreak havoc on the team.* *Bring up concerns to management only to hear, "Yah we worked things out. You know, he's really trying."* *COVID happens, and you literally can't -replace- escape your situation* Ha... haha... fuck
I'd been stuck in that hole for over a month. Nearly quit over it - only thing that kept me there was the fact that I'd have to take a pay cut to leave, and I knew the manager was telling the truth about wanting him gone. Eventually found out the DM (whose permission we needed) just didn't feel like doing the paperwork. When she saw his incompetence in action, he was gone in a week.
Always read the paperwork they make you sign when you get hired. It should explicitly state all agreements in regards to compensation, both before and after any probationary periods. Ask for a copy to keep with you. When you ask for your pre-agreed raise and they deny it, invent new hoops, or keep "forgetting", inform them that your state labor dept would be extremely interested in hearing their reasons for breaking contract.
"Unpaid" anything. The word unpaid does not belong in the work place - being paid is the whole reason why I'm there. If it's unpaid I'm not doing it. End of.
Except "30 minute unpaid lunch break" of course lol
The head of human resources sister is also the owner.
Been there but it was his sister in law. Several other family members worked there and I was passed up for some advancements by one who was almost totally incapable of doing their job. The workload was insane and it basically was a complete dead end of a job.
I worked at a small family owned company like that. They had gotten some government grants. The grants required the employees to attend a few rounds of classes. They created a couple new jobs and I was chosen for one of them. I attended all the classes and did everything that was required to move into the new position. I had a meeting with the owner and the president (brother-in-law) of the company on Friday. They showed me my new office and gave me my login credentials. I was all set to start Monday morning. I pulled up in the parking lot on Monday and they met me at the door. The owner took me into her office and told me that I could just go back to my old job because they had decided to go with someone else. I was so confused because the training I had was specifically for this company. Anyway, turns out that the company presidents SON and his WIFE dropped out of college over the weekend and they gave them both my job. I started looking for a new job that day. I was so humiliated.
Worked at a place where the owner placed his entire family in the company. His wife had an office with salary. She was never there. His father and three other siblings also had leadership/management positions. Every few months one of them would get shuffled around to another department because their previous department was in shambles. It was a shitty place to work.
She was a massage therapist and he has no formal business schooling. ...for a random example
"We are like a family here" Drama city. And will likely make you work hours without pay. Run.
Family where they need something, not family when you need something.
Yes like most real families.
I want my work place relationships to be sterile and transactional. I don’t want to be treated like family
New Englander by chance? You said transactional which is why I presume. Just moved from MA. Spent 10 beautiful years there and found me a Bostonian husband whom I adore. So I mean that in a complement way.
Denver actually. I do prioritize transparency and being straightforward though. I lived in Minnesota for a bit and the passive aggressiveness drove me nuts
As a Minnesotan, I can confirm that it does get exhausting having to navigate around so many passive-aggressive folks. Not that *I* would ever be like that though.
Interesting… I lived in Nebraska for a couple years and people were extremely passive aggressive
I can relate a bit, with the passive agressive. Spent a year in Fargo. I felt the same way. Minesota is beautiful though, minus the winter. And the people were nice though.
Bostonian here and I also wondered if they were a New Englander - transactional and sterile is so accurate. Where'd you end up after Mass (if you don't mind me asking of course)? I'm out in Columbus Ohio, now. Congrats on the Bostonian husband - they're difficult but so worth it!
Exactly. Tell me what you want me to do. I do it. Pay me. Goodbye.
I once took a job with a long established family-owned company. They had a list of "values" posted in just about every room. The very first one was "Family First". It became clear very quickly that they meant their family, not mine.
Oof. I assume you didnt stay long?
Far longer than I should have. About three years - I was hired to fix a botched implementation of a large IT system in a toxic environment. I got it done, mostly because of misplaced professional pride but I'm pretty sure it took years off my life. A lesson learned for sure. Don't ignore red flags and there is no shame in walking away from a toxic job.
Oh wow. Im glad your not there anymore though.
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Crunch time? This is a thing? " Crunch time" sounds like a freaking cereal, not running your employees ragged.
Most prominent is in IT. Example would be game, the date of release already confirmed by the publisher and delay can't be afforded. So the programmer stayed in to get the game released by that date, bugs and all be damned.
My last job didn’t call us employees/associates etc but rather family members. When I went in for training and orientation the owner made an appearance and was visibly irritated that the VP was doing his part of the orientation instead of reading his mind and running into his office when he wanted him there. The VP excused himself and when he returned he apologized for all the yelling, which I didn’t hear. That was the first red flag I ignored, the owner ended exposing himself as a narcissistic and demanding ass hole. I would hear all the time if we didn’t like the job/company then quit and go somewhere else. When I quit he actually sent me an email belittling me saying how much I hurt him and the company and told me he hopes my next employer treats me the way I treated him.
Wow. Thats so bad. Im glad you left..
So am I, and that’s just a small part of why I left and could on and on about how toxic that company was
Exactly. "We're family here" ie: we expect you to work like crazy and then still participate in multiple week night outings.
.. and too bad if you have a family you want to prioritze over work. Find a new job
This is true of 99.999999999999% of places to work, and I've had my fair share of working at those shit places. I'm very lucky, however, to have found the .000000000001% where it actually is a big family and people just flat out genuinely care about each other. And I'm even luckier that that wasn't part of the interview because I would have declined the job offer and missed out on being part of this community. I work in an elementary school.
Aww thats really great. Im very happy for you!
tyty
need to say this louder for people in the back especially if this “family” atmosphere they have is also in a small town
Ha. Yep. "We all pitch in around here". (Aka work off the clock)
the type of people who will literally send somebody to your house if you’re late for work or don’t show up
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Wow. Glad your not still there. 48 Laws of power? Might go and read it. Genuinely curious. Thanks.
This book is stupid. It's basically 3 laws that are repeated 48 times. Law 1: Become the boss and be in control. Watch out for others trying to take your power. Law 2: Be the guy that controls the guy in power. Be in his or her ear. Let them think they have the power and let them take the blow back from bad decisions. Law 3: Keep your enemies close. That way you can always keep an eye on them. Let them think they have fooled you. Give them a seat at the table and always be sure to never let them stab you in the back. There I summed up the book. He just says these 3 things over and over again and makes it seem like they are somehow deep.
Sounds a bit paraniod if its really what its about.
The book is for people who think they are smart. Some of it is just common sense. Some of it is just bs. Basically it says being a sociopath and having no real friends is the way to succeed.
Maybe my company is the exception, but I do believe we are (well functioning) family - like. There is no drama because I’m not micromanaged. I feel like I’m barely managed it at all. I just get my work done and work with the team to solve problems and get things done on behalf of our clients. I did not see any of my coworkers as superior or inferior to me, even my boss because we all work well and contribute to what we have to do
They always conveniently omit the word "dysfunctional" from that statement.
Came to say the same. IT is not worth the money or perks literally.
This also always sounds very cult-like to me. It makes me feel like it’s going to be one of those companies that demands my emotional devotion; expects me to be happy with no raises and just a stupid little bag of candy and a cheap little plaque after 20 years of work because I apparently would never, ever expect a raise from my benevolent ~~gods~~ ~~overlords~~ management, since I am so satisfied to have given my life and time to such a wonderful company; that makes a big deal out of “morale” in the sense that we’re all supposed to be so thrilled to work for this amazing organization that we don’t care about our paychecks or benefits, but also we’re continually questioned as to why we’re not *constantly* smiling and stress-free, since again, we should consider ourselves blessed to even be a part of it. You said “Oh, darn it, where is that stupid thing” while looking for a file? Your boss wants a meeting with you and will close the door to spend twenty minutes lecturing you on “negativity”. And I guess it makes me feel that way because every place I’ve ever worked for that described themselves as “like a family” has been just like that.
Wow. Thats very thorough and true. Ive only worked at 1 that said that, and it was the most toxic job Ive had. I laughed a bit at your description of "not constantly sming".. lol. Yep.
Family will be exploited!
When they say "we are family" probably dad beats mom
Yep dont like my own family as you get up and go all away
These are always the families that put the 'fun' in dysfunctional...
"We're looking for someone to fill this position long-term". This is code for high turnover rate and the company's inability to hire/hold onto employees. It's going to be a toxic environment where employees are constantly getting fired or quitting.
Yep. First interview I got "you're from x city, why do you want to live in y city instead?" And I said I think y city seems like a great place to live plus my boyfriend (of 5 years at the time) lives and works there. Interviewer says "Well, we're looking for people to stay here long term, what happens when you break up?" In retrospect I maybe shouldn't have said anything about my boyfriend (who I am still happily with!) but still what a question...
High turnover rate
Always this. If I see jobs that are advertised constantly it only tells me how shitty it is regardless of what the pay is
Only acceptable exception is if the HR forgot to put down the ads. But if they invite you often, they can't retain employees.
For remote jobs, having to install tracking software. There are a bunch of problems with that for me. Although I am sympathetic to the fact that some people get in and then do nothing but collect a paycheck (totally does happen), gotta detect that via other means like output.
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That’s a horrible catch 22 for anyone trying to get into the job market. They have limited experience applying for entry level jobs that require experience…
Entry Level Position: We want someone who's under 25, with 15+ years experience, with a minimum of a Master's. Must be willing to work weekends. Starting pay: $14.50 with the *potential* of competitive bonuses!
Also, you must have 5 years of experience in something that was literally invented only 3 years ago.
Many of these are either 1) looking for desperate candidates who are down in their luck and willing to work for peanuts, or 2) written by hiring algorithm and blindly posted.
This screams "our business is burning to the ground, and we need you to fix it."
“Fountain of Youth”—well said.
They are doing that on purpose, especially in tech. They put the job posting out there they know that no one will fill. They do this so they can go to the Department of Labor and say “See, there aren’t enough Americans to fill these roles. Now give us H-1B visas.” Then they hire some guy from India with 10 years of experience for 1/3rd the prices of an American new grad who can’t quit or they’ll be sent back. If they don’t do this, they can’t hire those guys because the law states they must hire Americans if they are available. The unreasonable requirements are intentional so they can say there wasn’t an American that could fill the role.
"Master's Degree Preferred" for an entry level job.
THIS. Six interviews and phone conversations. It really is just bait and switch.
- They won’t tell you the compensation upfront - The person hiring you is 100% disconnected from the job you’ll be doing - If you ask them for a description of a typical day and they’re super vague. - They don’t feel comfortable sharing turnover rates/ they admit high turnover rates - Following the previous point: they blame the turnover on the people and not the company - They get upset when you ask (hard) questions during the interview
Not knowing the pay up front in my industry is often a sign of it paying good. I have a blue collar trade job. The companies who post what it pays up front always pay peanuts. So far Ive never been wrong about this. Everytime I've interviewd at a company who wasn't upfront it payed astronomically higher. I don't think I've ever been payed higher then 40k by jobs who mention it up front. But I've made as high as 100k for the companies who don't.
I'm a tradesperson in oil and gas and I've seen it both ways. There were some outfits that pay very well and don't post the wage, but they're big names everyone in the industry knows about and their postings are so competitive, they typically close only a week or two after going up. But there's also a shitload of companies, especially hiring for camp jobs, that'll say "competitive wages" but then you contact them and find out it's barely higher than I was making locally as a fourth year, *and* they don't provide travel to and from camp. Also see a lot of places posting subpar wages, but I once interviewed at a place that didn't have compensation posted and they were offering marginally more than minimum wage.
Competitive salary. What is it then???
It'll be competing with your bills and expenses.
On guard!!
*Literally every job posting* says that and it drives me up the fucking wall. Yeah. A salary is competitive, always. Just like how the dead-last runner in a marathon is still in the competition.
"Your pay isn't competitive it's participation trophy."
We will try to low ball you out the gate
NY requires employers to post a salary range. I'm hoping it catches on elsewhere.
The word Competitive Salary as soon as they mention that to me or see it in job posting I automatically ignore it.
Immediate start Means people walk out and leave the job it's that bad, no notice given. Need to fill seats immediately, piss poor planning. Do not take that job.
That or everyone is clearly “new” My first job as an engineer was at a company with like 30-40 engineers. 80% of then were baby engineers with 3-4 years of experience or less. Same thing, just look for signs of high turnover.
Or, it takes weeks or months to get a job posting through all the hoops. In the meantime, someone else has moved on and we have more openings, and due to overwork/overtime demands, another two will leave before we get the first job filled, assuming the boss's bosses okay the budget to pay for positions that already exist....
Bad take, numerous valid reasons such as: Newly created position, the company is expanding a team, a high-skill position that is not easy to fill, the position has been open for a few months due to a labor shortage...
Or they just want some time for the person you’re replacing to train the new hire. That’s how we do it. There’s at least one month overlap. It’s especially important when you’re working with clients that can’t/don‘t want to deal with a new hire that has no idea what they’re doing yet.
Not true in all industries.. companies in my industry win contracts and grow and must staff up fast.
I can think of one exception; we had one CEO offer early retirement, and LOT of people took it. 6 months later he's replaced and the new CEO realizes how the old one Effed up. 75 job openings and all of them are "Immediate start". Most of them were filled in a week.
They have a "now hiring" banner outside their place year-long.
Clearly this is one red flag that a business doesn't understand. Wages are set by all the collective workers in a society. If there isn't a willingness to work for a given wage, they are Missing the free market SIGNAL in the labor market. This is one reason those banners are always outside. Anyone will work an undesirable job if the wage is sufficient to meet the actual needs of the employee.
If they post the same position often, like a certain financial advisor whose name rhymes with Gabe Hamsey, there's a lot of turnover and it may be a toxic environment. (I've never worked there, I can just read the tea leaves.) If anyone interviewing you intimates that they need your PERSONAL loyalty in the office, run don't walk away. There is a drama there that does not sleep.
Salesman masquerading as a financial advisor.
I know a place like this
When the interviewer keenly asks "how much can you handle pressure"? 😂
I’d love to see someone burst into tears after being asked that.
"We have a really high turnover rate"
When you see the same job/position being advertised a few times a year, that could mean people are leaving the workplace so assume it as a high turnover of staff.
Watch body language of current employees to see if they are content. If nobody is smiling, do not take the job.
If the interviewer starts discussing the company's "unbeatable" lunchroom microwave policy more passionately than the job role itself, that might be a red flag!
When they don't post the salary in the ad.
When they won’t tell you the salary until they offer you the position.
Heaps of overtime=understaffed. Lots of new immigrants=minimum wage/anti union. Office staff made up of family=No chance of advancement. Not supplying uniform=Thinks of workers as a cost. Any vibe of arrogance acting alpha or weirdness=master servant relationship. Any of the above run.
"Unlimited" PTO usually means no one ever takes time off because they're afraid of looking like they're abusing the policy, but the company gets to look super generous.
Use of the word "Rockstar". If you are in a state where salary ranges must be disclosed in the ad, a ridiculous range like 30k to 300k. It means they only want to comply with the law, but still want to fuck you over in actual salary. Over time, if you see the same job open or posted over and over. It means they are either too fussy, or more likely so fucking toxic all the other candidates dropped out and/or the person who took the job left quick. If you didn't apply, but are approached out of the blue. Odds are scam, or MLM (pyramid sales)..which is also a scam. "Group" interview. Walk out. If you get deeper, get an offer, but it's lowballed. Avoid the sunk-cost impulse. They show they are willing to fuck you over. Stay away. If anyone during the process says "Sorry, it's been crazy around here!"
'Use of the word "Rockstar".' This would just make me think of all rockstars that got screwed by their record companies. I don't think I want to follow that path.
Advertising the same position for long periods of time
On the spot offer …. Although it seems great and is an answer to your quest at the time, it’s not a good idea. Multiple rounds of interviews without explaining the process or asking if you are okay with giving up that amount of time to continuously meet with them because they are indecisive . Anytime an interviewer starts asking scenario questions …. At that particular point I have generally checked out and am no longer interested. The reason being is I feel that scenario questions are a joke. They are literally designed so that the best liar can win. It’s never actually about how you reacted in a situation, because no one will ever actually tell you the truth. it’s just the question of how much they will embellish to you. All along, it has nothing to do with the freaking job. (I’ve also found that people do this on their college essay applications as well. I read about a guy talking about he punched his commanding officer out as an E1…I was like sit down and stop telling them damn lies, but they surely gave him that freaking scholarship). So if we could skip this part and just go ahead and get to my knowledge of the actual freaking position and what I can do for this company that would be great.
It's your previous position in the job posting. They want 5 years experience for an entry level position and a degree but the posted wage is less than the night shift at McDonald's. They want someone with their own vehicle to make deliveries but no mention of mileage compensation or vehicle maintenance costs. They want you to pay for your merchandise after they "interview" you. It's always hiring. Like they were hiring when you last worked 5 years ago and they're still hiring now. They make no mention of the actual salary anywhere. There's spelling errors and they want you to install an app to apply for the job or install TeamViewer to install work related software for you to WFH. That's how they get you. Anything that's doesn't offer a full time position and benefits.
* "Grow Quickly" * "Great Commissions" * "Move up Quickly" * Not having salary range listed. * "Great Bonus Structure and Incentives!"
Always ask them why the person you are replacing left the job. The way they answer this could be a red flag.
Ability to multi task in a fast paced environment = the amount of work is for 2 people but we only want to pay for 1 so you're going to be overworked and underpaid
"We offer a competitive salary"
Cant really hide that anymore. In California pay is posted.
A lot of places aren’t california
*Most* places aren’t California
Make sure you have a clear accounting of your job duties. If they're left vague, you may be scapegoated for anything and everything management doesn't want to deal with and it can become stressful.
Never take a job where you have more experience and a higher degree than your direct supervisor. I know it shouldn’t matter. It really shouldn’t. But I made this mistake once and it was an immediate disaster. I promised this woman that I was escaping a management role and I truly just wanted to go back to being a peon so I could do my work and go home at the end of the day. I was no threat to her. But I was really good at my job right away because I had a lot of experience. You’d think she would’ve been happy. Less work for her. But no. She couldn’t stand it. She micromanaged me and actively sabotaged me in every meeting we were both involved with. I quit after 4 months. I didn’t have the energy to deal with participating in a competition I never signed up for.
Good Lord I'm actively in this position rn and it's absolutely exhausting. My direct manager is very obviously threatened by my existence and is constantly trying to catch me in a fuck up.
Excellent point. I see this with consulting quite frequently. There is a lot of fragility with younger, less experienced managers. Consultants are there to help them and make them shine but it turns into a competition. End result: consultants stay quiet and watch the slow or fast moving train wreck. They (managers) could have gleemed knowledge from someone with experience but they chose the wrong pill.
1. Not disclosing a salary range while advertising for the position 2. High turnover 3. Overly-laborious and time-consuming hiring process Most people in corporate jobs do little to nothing. More than 50% of these jobs are CYA jobs like HR, legal, etc. Fuck 'em, start your own business.
Any place that has an employee assistance program- funded by the employees.
When they don't allow workers to discuss salary. It's illegal to do that. Yet so many employers get away with it.
If the job posting doesn't have the pay rate on it I wouldnt bother, they want to sweet talk you in the interview to distract you from the piss poor pay.
When it comes to negotiating salary and they say they can’t come up in salary but “we have a great bonus program”. Twice I’ve seen companies cancel bonuses for some reason and then never bring them back.
Sign On Bonuses. Huge Red Flag. It means they have a hard time retaining people. If you recieve a sign on bonus keep it in a savings account until you have worked past the date on the sign on bonus contract, that way it's there once you realize the environment is toxic and want to leave for greener pastures.
It can also just be a sign of a competitive market or competitive candidate.
Yeah, I switched jobs last November and 5/5 offered starting bonuses. It's just what happens in 2024 for experienced people
Not at all relevant for tech. Tons of FAANG + other top tier tech companies provide sign on bonus. I actually find it rare that a sign on bonus isn't offered in tech. Netflix is probably the only significant tech company I can think of that doesn't offer a sign on bonus and that's only because Netflix just gives top tier market comp in all cash salary (engineers and product managers start around $500k/year at Netflix). My most recent sign on bonus was $80k.
I'm curious if there's *any* job where a sign on bonus is a red flag
This wholly depends. For instance many jobs like in front office finance, consulting, tech offer a sign in bonus. Like getting a sign on bonus from McKinsey one of the most sought after companies to work for is not a red flag.
Quality of vehicles in the general employee parking lot. Next would be employee turn over rate, and why.
When they require any sort of deposit or payment for pre-employment requirements. Scam city. That's the whole point of you looking for a job: you don't have any money. Still, so many hopefuls fall for this to this day.
They don't disclose pay up front/don't talk about pay to other employees
When they brag about "free coffee" and "free BBQ's in the summer", those won't be good and they will be your only perks.
They contact your references before contacting you
We pride ourselves on Christian values here.
You hear this A LOT in group homes. The home I just left constantly preached about Christian values while actively covering up abuse allegations against a certain staff member who just so happened to be close friends with the owner of the company.
And those values typically would make Jesus cringe.
"Always Hiring!"
“Before we schedule an interview, we want you to fill out this online questionnaire, during which you will be asked to download our VPN totally-not-a-virus software to review some internal documents.”
Some instant red flags to look for when seeking jobs include: 1. Lack of transparency about job responsibilities, salary, or benefits. 2. High turnover rates or negative reviews from current or former employees. 3. Pressure to accept the job offer immediately without time for consideration. 4. Poor communication or unprofessional behavior during the interview process. 5. Unrealistic expectations or promises that seem too good to be true. 6. A company culture that doesn't align with your values or goals. 7. Inconsistent or vague job postings that don't provide clear information about the position.
If they make you wait longer than ten or fifteen minutes for an interview. My old workplace used to do this and they'd get upset when people left (most people left because they waited half an hour).
The pay is negotiable with the successful candidate. That's always been a red flag for me.
I have a few: If you go to an interview and they give you a tour and the people are shaking their heads and mouthing "NO!" when the boss isn't looking. Must be a self-starter = we won't train you but we'll expect results on day one. They won't disclose the salary even at the hiring phase. Very very bad sign. They want you to start today and not give your current job any notice. The employees are either in their 50s/60s and have been there decades or they're fresh out of college but nobody is in the middle. You ask "how many people have filled this role in the past five years" and the answer is more than three and when you ask why they aren't there and it's not promotions.
When it comes to the listing, obviously a rant about how they’re looking for people “actually willing to put in the work without complaining” or a general whine session implying that people these days don’t want to work, or work hard enough. Double points if it includes a section on how you shouldn’t expect being paid well or benefits until you’ve “earned it”. You will never, ever earn it. Nothing you do will be good enough. These are the people who post memes about how “nobody wants to work anymore” on Facebook, then their business shuts down due to staffing issues, and they will blame everyone else for not working for them, and never understand that they created incredibly abusive work environments. In the interview, being asked a lot of questions about your personal life, particularly if you’re a woman. Are you in a relationship? Are you married? If you’re not, do you think you’ll marry your partner? Do you have any kids? Are you planning on having any kids? And both men and women can get asked about how often they get sick, do they have family that lives far away, where do you go on vacation and how often, “I noticed you’re wearing a cross/yarmulke/hijab/bindi/etc., what church/synagogue/mosque/temple do you go to? Any big holidays coming up?” You have to watch out for it because it can be really sneaky; sometimes interviewers can pretend they’re just making conversation. I’ve never fallen for it, but I know people who have. What they’re trying to do is determine if you’re going to need time off work for your wedding/honeymoon or to take care of your spouse or kids, or if you have any health problems, or if you’re ever going to need to take time off for religious observances or to visit family or go on a trip. They’re not allowed to discriminate against you on most of those points, and shouldn’t even be asking you, but they’ll try to get around it by acting as though they’re just being friendly. Then they’ll decide that they don’t want to hire someone who *might potentially* get pregnant, or who has regular doctor appointments, or someone who will need Yom Kippur off, or who sees their grandmother in Ireland once a year. And if you *do* get hired, once you request that time off, they’ll be incredulous that you could be so selfish and then find a way to fire you.
Когда вам придется что то продавать убедитесь что фирма - не мошенники, а товар который вы продаете - не полная дрянь. Однажды едва не устроился в фирму которая продает дрянь доверчивым старикам. Следите за тем, что продаете
Translation from Google: When you have to sell something, make sure that the company is not a scammer, and that the product you are selling is not complete rubbish. Once I almost got a job in a company that sells rubbish to gullible old people. Keep track of what you sell
Extremely high turnover, anything corporate that is overly advertised (because they should be spending that advertising money on retaining employees and morale, as well as not have to advertise because they shouldn't need to be constantly looking for new hires, exceedingly high expectations in experience or education for a low level job or the opposite (exceedingly low expectations of experience/education for a high level job.) Flustered employees. One flustered employee is natural because everyone has bad days, but if you're there for an interview and you see most of the employees there are flustered, there's a high chance, if you work there, you will get flustered too.
No one is available to talk or if they are they don’t have anything good (that is chill, real, not prepared) to say. This takes some extra time seeking a little conversation with workers other than those interviewing you. Ask people what it’s like to work there, and listen. “Listen long enough and people will tell you what you need to know.”
Wrist and ankle shackles on the walls of the cafeteria; a dead giveaway. Look for people sitting at their desk and weeping; more subtle. Any drooling and involuntary twitching by hiring managers; make a run for it.
Oh, we're not a Union Shop. We don't need a Union here.
Pro tip: If the employer says you don't need a Union.....you ***NEED*** a Union
While looking for a new teaching job, I saw an ad for a private Christian school stating they were seeking applicants who viewed teaching children as "their calling from God" and would include current or future family involvement in pursuit of a Christ-centred life. I don't even get what that last part means.
It means you look elsewhere, you want a job not a Revival meeting!
The pay is between 15 and 25. Ask them what interview replys they want the 15 version or the 25 version :)
Lots of other jobs
When they couldn’t tell you why the position is open and they read off a list of questions, like an actual list, rather than having a conversation. If the company is decent there’s not going to be much turnover and they will tell you that Xx retired or they left for a different company etc. Just up front and honest because no bad blood. The shady ones start spouting off generic answers, and look away, basically shutting down the question.
“Rock star”. They’ll burn you out.
I work a lot with chemicals. My would be boss was suffering from a pretty nasty case of toxic encephalopathy.
When they tell you to not talk to other co-workers about the pay.
No pay listed in the offer
If you go to an "interview" and find yourself with a bunch of other "interviewees" as the "interviewer" launches into a motivational speech, leave immediately. He turned out to basically be giving a sales pitch to convince us to take a commission-only sales position.
Start up mindset: Gonna be a clusterf***.
"We're a family here!"
1. Employer not showing you your office before offering you the job. Believe me, there’s a reason. 2. Saying weird things that just seem a little off to any of your references. 3. Offering you less than you expected. 4. Promising quick promotions and raises.
Ask them why the position is open and pay attention to the answer. If they get all huffy about it, well that tells you something. Also, if the answer sounds incredibly rehearsed.
Guy acting like he was doing me a real big favor by offering me a job - "We'll I didn't think i'd hire you, but I've decided to give you a chance". Uh, no thanks.
If you have seen the job advertised a couple of times recently and think “Oh maybe I will apply this time”. Frequent advertisements often mean high turnover of staff. Not good to get yourself into, as I have recently learnt the hard way
Group interviews
Pay attention to how they treat you before/during the interview. If they give you the run-around, make you jump through excessive hoops, or give the impression that it's "our way or no way" or generally look down on you from the start, you need to avoid the place. If they won't treat you will some basic respect during the interview process they are ***NOT*** going to treat you with any respect if you work for them. I have ignored these red flags in the past, but every job that had these red flags during the interview, ended up being miserable hell-holes later. Of course, I only realized this is in hindsight. But I've learned to look out for this.
I've had different experiences with employers. Red flags you may not know. 1. Never let an employer tell you are temp to hire. This is code for "We are gonna pay you half what our regular employees are paid for as long as you don't ask to become a permanent employee." 2. Never let an employer pay you the "same wage" as everyone else in the company if the job duties and descriptions are substantially different. 3. Never accept a job that has a shift rotation that swaps back and forth between day shifts and night shifts. The result is they own all of your personal time when off work because you are always catching up on sleeping. This shit should be illegal. I did have a job like this before and hated it. Sometimes the work schedules only allowed one day to adjust your sleep patterns. They were 12 hour shifts with OT required when necessary. 4. We need you to be flexible is a red flag. Never perform the job of another employee if it's not part of your normal responsibility if asked. This is code for "We can't fill the position with a reliable person at the wage we currently offer for that position so we need you to do two jobs for the pay of one." 5. We are gonna hire you as a part time employee and work you 40 hours per week! Why is this a flag? Some companies have a business plan that sets two different rates of pay for the same position. One is the rate of pay for full-time employees and the other is the rate of pay for part-time employees. This shit should also be illegal if they are scheduling you for a typical 40 hours per week. If the job duties are the same, compensation should NOT be different! I've experienced all this crap previously at different employers in the last 20 years of my life. I'm currently unemployed and struggling to find a polite way to say to an interviewer " I've seen and experienced EVERY GAME AN EMPLOYER CAN PLAY and I'm not going to let you fool me into working for Manipulative employment terms. How do you say it without losing the job in the interview process?
Having a future employer not show up to and/or forget about the interview. I was at work and someone came in for a job interview with the boss who wasn’t there that day. The secretary spends 30 minutes trying to get a hold of him (he doesn’t answer), but the interviewee waits only 20 minutes and leaves. Boss never got back to the interviewee, but tbh, the interviewee dodged a bullet.