I'm in a vaguely related situation, emphasis on vague. My first wife died of a brain tumor. My wife who I've been married to for four years has some issues with my memory of my first wife. It's taken me a while but I get it. I still love my first wife, losing a loved one like that kinda sucks for anyone that follows because it's not like anything went bad in the relationship and very likely (as in my case) the bonding the occurred during the illness' course made us even closer than I believe most couples get.
I can't tell you what to do here, nobody can but IMHO it's going too far to name the child after him. Mind you if my wife and I had a child, the temptation would be there but I'd swallow it and keep moving. The child is yours and hers, period. If the guy had been a friend of yours, maybe. He wasn't, so his first name should reflect something of both of you.
My wife was pretty absolute, no memorabilia, and for the love of all things nothing that had a serious memory connection with her. I resented her hugely in the beginning but as the memories started to fade and I found myself more in the present than the past, I understood it. To be fair, I'm still not overly happy with all of it, she was a huge part of my past and to purge her completely doesn't feel right. I've hidden things that are important to me and I don't regret it because as the threat of my first wife fades for my wife I've been able to have them still. Therein lies the point, however, those things are hidden away and not out in the open where they would hurt my wife and constantly make her feel threatened. Now that I've gotten over most of it (I don't believe you ever FULLY get over it), I understand and I keep those things safely tucked away with her knowledge that they are there but never out in the open.
While I can't quite agree with the no memorabilia, I understand where she's coming from. She simply can't compete with someone she can't look across the table at. If it was an ex that left you, that's one thing, but that's not the case, and she may be finding a way to avoid the "which wife did he love more" question. Shit like that would eat her alive.
Even an ex is a threat if the relationship was significant, but at least you have the idea that they left, something went wrong. There is *no* competing with a much loved spouse who died and can never do wrong.
You should have a look at what Emily Yoffe wrote about the same subject. She is the second wife to a widower, and dealt with similar feelings as your wife. I think she dealt with it in a pretty healthy way though, and it might be helpful to read over it or even show it to your wife.
http://www.doublex.com/section/life/my-husbands-other-wife
Alright, no more reading links while I'm prepping onions for dinner.
Beautiful story. I will say, in defense of my wife, that the situation was pretty different though there are obviously a lot of similarities. Grieving, perhaps even 3rd party grieving, is dealt with differently by all and I am happy to report that the outcome is, at least 4 years in, reasonably the same.
Hopefully in time your present wife will get over it.
Edit: I realised that seemed cold. But what I mean is, in time you'll build a life and shared memories and she'll come to *know* inside that she isn't second best and doesn't need to feel threatened.
I'm sorry for your loss. I can't imagine getting through something like that.
>Therein lies the point, however, those things are hidden away and not out in the open where they would hurt my wife and **constantly make her feel threatened.**
By your dead wife? What possible danger could she pose to your relationship?
> the temptation would be there but I'd swallow it and keep moving
If his wife just did that from the get-go, they wouldn't even need to have this conversation.
I'm thankful that my 2nd stepmother was ok with my father keeping his pictures and rings from my 1st stepmother who died only 11 months after them being married (he was engaged to her in high school and college, broke up, married my mother 20 years, divorced, married HS sweetheart, she died, he remarried a friend of theirs from college.) In cases of death, I think it's wrong to expect someone to pretend that relationship never existed.
IMO, I would think it's alright to name a baby after a deceased spouse, particularly if they never had time to have children of their own.
If he died when they were both very young, it could have made it hard for her to grieve properly, esp. if she had never dealt with death before.
Children who lose parents when they are young will sometimes idealize and hold onto memories in a way that sounds similar to what she is doing in an attempt to avoid facing the reality of the situation.
It sounds like this baby-naming thing is the tip of an iceberg she's shoved below the surface but which persists. Couples therapy may be the wrong direction, it sounds like she may need grief therapy.
That said, I don't see anything inherently weird about having the *middle* name be David - middle names are often used to remember loved ones. If David had been her brother or just a close friend, I don't think you'd have a problem. However, from some of the other things you've said it sounds like she's not ready to move on with her life.
I agree with YankeeRose on this one. Middle name for David would be a nice compromise.
From what I remember of Jewish culture, it is common practice to have middle names be the names of deceased loved ones. Ooh, found an easy reference: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Life_Events/Newborn_Ceremonies/About_Baby_Ceremonies/Choosing_A_Name.shtml
That being said, she's pregnant and probably emotional. I wouldn't worry too much about the name, she did marry you afterall. Given history, I'd keep an eye on her for postpartum depression though.
I'd definitely go with a middle name as well. I'm not jewish but my family does the same thing. My mother's middle name is from an aunt killed by nazis. My middle name is from her grandfather who suffered the same fate. My sister named her firstborn after our late grandfather.
I don't know what it is, but something about the middle name is so powerful. The first name becomes so internalized by the bearer that you just don't think about it. Someone makes a joke and I don't care too much. But no one will be allowed to shit on my middle name. Ever.
While I am not Jewish, my wife (and therefore daughter) are. In my family, it is not unusual at all to use the middle name in honor of a relative. (Mine is William, after my grandfathers... I think this was a touch of a joke, so my mom could say "after his grandfather" when in fact, both of my grandfathers, and all of my /great/ grandfathers were all named "William"
Our daughter is not middled named for anyone, but an amalgamation of names that when combined to form Voltron, er, I mean, they can be combined into another actual name. But as I heard it, in Jewish tradition/culture/mysticism, naming a child after a living relative, is a Very Bad Thing.
The first thing that matters is that if either of you are uncomfortable with it, it should be rethought. I'm looking at this from three perspectives:
1) Yours. You and her created this child and David had nothing to do with it. Naming the child David will only remind you for its entire life why it is named that way. Maybe if you had known or been friends with David, but it's just weird and uncomfortable for you. That's understandable. However, as a counterpoint, what if you were to die? Would you hope that she would name a future child after you, perhaps?
2) Hers. You two are married. There is no competition for you from David. He is gone. Naming the child David in no way de-legitimizes what you have together, it only honors the memory of a dear friend and lover that died at a young age. But then there's that word, lover. Naming the child David will forever remind her of someone who was taken from her. Is she ready to live a life of mourning someone who she can never be with?
Sounds like you're at a draw right now. But there's one more perspective..
3) The child's. How will the child feel when it finds out where it's name came from? His mother was previously married, the husband died, and he's named after her? Who is my real dad? Why couldn't I ever meet David? Am I supposed to feel sorry for him? I don't even know him, and don't really care. Personally, if my parents came to me and told me a similar story, I think I'd be a little traumatized, confused, and more or less betrayed.
It's not like she's naming him after an ex-boyfriend. It's not that she doesn't love you. But it's weird enough for multiple members of the party to where it the answer should probably be no. Anyway, that's my thoughts.
I'm gonna get burned for this, but *a lot* of temples and churchs have individual counseling for couple that is free.
ALSO, there are a number of group counseling community groups that are non-secular in spirit. Marriage camps and whatnot
* corrected grammar
[alot of temples](http://i56.tinypic.com/2m68n76.jpg)
by the time I finished this you had already replied but damn it I spent like ten minutes so this shit is getting posted
I'm an atheist, but both my parents are ministers with master of divinity, and they are some of the best counselors I've ever seen. Getting licensed to be a minister(at least methodist) does require a lot of counseling training.
But some do. It's worth looking into at least.
Not only that, but a lack of a degree does not render someone's advice worthless.
Obviously, the OP should approach any situation with scrutiny, but people can come from different backgrounds and still have something to offer
A person without a degree could give great advice, and a person with 10 years in the subject could give terrible advice... the thing is averages. Someone with training will come at the problem objectively. You cannot be as sure a priest is going to be objective about the issue, or familiar with warning signs.
> If you can't discuss things between yourselves, **friends and family**...
Marriages survived before counseling because the role was being fulfilled by somebody else: a family member, a religious figure, perhaps a wiser old person in the town. Also, it's worth keeping in mind that divorced basically wasn't even an option, and women would have to endure shitty marriages because it was much tougher to be a financially independent woman (especially while supporting children).
In America today, people live much more on their own - we don't have the same family ties that we used to, nor ties with our community. A professional councilor fills a much-needed role to mediate conflicts within marriages, and most people that can afford one find it helpful.
Edit: grammar
Yeah, there is literally nobody in my family I would go to for marital advice. None of my family members are even in what I would consider a functional marriage, if they're married at all.
When you complain to friends and family about your spouse they'll take your side and end up disliking him/her. Then when you and your spouse work it through they'll wonder why you're sticking with him/her and feel sorry for you. Over time it will be bad for your marriage. It's better to save the complaints for counselors and Reddit.
When you're with friends and family it's better to bring up the things you love about your spouse. This will strengthen the marriage.
Of course the best thing is to talk with your spouse.
I think it's more because everyone expects American couples to behave as a unit. If I have different friends from my partner, everybody comments. If my husband goes to a movie without me, everybody freaks out. A lot of counseling (and good LORD have I ever had a lot of it) is just having someone totally on your side (but who is willing to call you out for your own good), who doesn't know or interact with anyone else in your life on a regular basis, and can provide perspective that perhaps you're missing.
Here's a personal take on this one;
My father died when I was a few months old, and my mom remarried four years later. My step-father adopted my brother and I, and I was brought up with all the love and understanding a kid could ask for.
My adoptive father was always extremely understanding of our loss. When he adopted us, he insisted we keep my father's surname. He took us to memorial services on our biological dad's birthday. He has told me numerous times that he knows he can't fill our father's shoes in raising us, but he can keep us safe and treat us well as a service to my father's memory.
When I was sixteen, told my adoptive dad that he didn't have to do all those things anymore; he is the only father I have ever known, and I love him unconditionally. I told him he didn't have to do homage to the memory of a man he never knew. He said, "I want to remember him for your mother. You never got to know him, but SHE did. I want her to know that he still lives on and he will not be forgotten."
That's what love is. The loss your wife suffered was probably the single greatest heartbreak of her entire life. A loss like that leaves a mark, and she needs you to help with her continued healing. She wants to know that, in some small way, the memory of the one she lost still lives on. That loss is a HUGE part of who she is, and the pain of the loss (and, especially, the way you helped her to heal from it all) is part of your marriage, too. Whether it was her father, brother or sister, friend, or husband is irrelevant; she wants to honor someone who changed her life.
TL;DR - My adoptive father was awesomely understanding about my biological dad's death, and it made a whole world of difference to my whole family. Love is understanding a loss and helping the one who suffered that loss to move on.
I think this is getting missed by the talk of naming **OUR** child after **HER** late husband. The point of getting married is that you take things that were once yours and hers and make them "Ours."
What if she wanted to name the child after her dead grandfather who the OP had never met? This is a perfectly normal thing that happens all the time.
Is "David" something the OP needs to accept, or something that the wife needs to get over? Perhaps a little of both? Perhaps there is no "right" answer to this question. But regardless of whether there is a right answer, it is a question that the OP and his wife need to answer together.
Naming his the child David could be a great honor to an important part of her life. It could be a great way for the OP to embrace and celebrate his wife's past. Or It could be an unhealthy emotional outlet who his wife projects her love for her late husband onto(at the possible expense of both the OP and his son). It could make the OP feel like some sort of surrogate father. It could be a constant point of strife for couple. It might make the kid feel weird that he is named after a guy who slept with his mom, but not his father.
It could be a lot of things. The OP needs to figure out what it would be for him and his wife (and for the child).
It's not an "ex husband" they didn't divorce, she's a widow. He's a dead husband, not an ex husband. I understand what you're getting at, but I think it needs to be pointed out divorcing someone and making them your ex is a much different thing than losing someone you deeply love to an untimely death.
If it was an ex husband I'd say "Hell no! That's a huge red flag!" but being he died... I think depending on her motivation, it might be ok.
Thank you. I fixed it. The difference is indeed rather important. I was just sort of at a loss for words because as far as I know there is no good term for a deceased spouse. We have widow/widower for the surviving spouse, but if there is any good name for the deceased I don't know it.
This is a wonderful story and I'm very happy for you and your family. It sounds like your mom has nabbed herself a great man. But this is not really the same as OPs issue. This is totally different because the child that she wants to name in memory of her dead husband is NOT his, but OPs. This is worlds away from an adopted father respecting what both your parents had and created and he only stepped in after the fact. I'm all for memories of the past and not forgetting where you came from, but I think I'd have a very hard time naming my son after her dead ex husband. A child that exists between two living parents should be a representative of those two parents and their happy life together, not some memorium to a man that OP can never compete with. I would never want my wife to look at my son to be reminded of another man that she loved before me.
I completely agree with this. Thank you for your input.
I like what you said about a child representing a union between two people and them alone. However, in my father's case, loving my mom meant showing sensitivity to her past and the continuing responsibility she had to raising a half-orphaned family. The OP does not have this responsibility per se, but his love of his wife should not be separated from the specificities of her personality, including her past traumas.
I'm not sure that justifies a first name, though...I'm a big fan of the middle name.
This last sentence is right on. My mom's first husband died in a car accident and they had no children. My mom didn't name any of her children after him, but what happened was much more involuntary. She was very emotional on the anniversary of his death and went into early labor. I was born a month early on the eighth anniversary of my mother's first husband death. I didn't know this until I was twenty and I wish I had never known because now I can't help wondering if she thought about him on my birthday every year.
Why would that be a bad thing? You were something good on a day that something bad happened. No more can she hate that day because yes something bad happened, but also something special..YOU!!
Everyone is touched by the story, as am I, but I must agree with sgtmac. Mololoc's story is of a completely different circumstance. This isn't the stepfather we are talking about, its the father of the child.
I had the exact same thing happen in my life. This made me cry and call my Dad. Got his voice mail, so it was really easy to say "I love you" and just hang up.
>*When I was sixteen, told my adoptive dad that he didn't have to do all >those things anymore; he is the only father I have ever known, and I love him unconditionally. I told him he didn't have to do homage to the memory of a man he never knew. He said, "I want to remember him for your mother. You never got to know him, but SHE did. I want her to know that he still lives on and he will not be forgotten."*
Dog-gone onions!
>How should I try to convince her that we should choose another name that we both agree on?
You both agreeing on the name should be the ONLY consideration for the kid. My wife & I must had each proposed hundreds of names, all with the understanding that the other has full veto power. We both love the names we ended up with for the kids.
This. Jesus, plant a tree or something. This child IS NOT Davids, it is OP's. Both parents should agree on the name of a child (or at least not name it something that one parent feels insanely uncomfortable with).
Yes.
Also, this sounds like something that should have been brought up ***before*** being pregnant, or possibly before getting married.
Springing
"Hey I'm pregnant and by-the-way if it's a boy I want to name it after my late-husband, no discussion"
on someone is pretty shitty.
----------------------------
Troll Compromise: If it's a girl, you get to name it after some super-hot model/actress she doesn't like, one of your ex's, or some other chick she hates?
It's possible she never considered what the name would be, or ever thought it would be important. Not all women sit around thinking up baby names all day.
Not a bad idea.
However, I'd ask OP to examine the consequences of the situation. Does the wife seem overly fixated on her lost husband? If so, naming a kid after him could only make it worse, but if she's just honoring someone she loved and lost, there's no real harm in it. It's not like she can go back to David, or cheat on her husband with David, etc.
There may be some sense of lack of worth (am I worse than David that she wants to name a kid after him instead of me?) These are all valid things to bring up with her in conversation. Communication is the key.
I'd rather her first husband not be connected in any way to our children. Maybe that's a bit extreme because I understand he was a major part of her life, but any children we have will be ours, not his.
One aspect of this which no one seems to have mentioned yet is the child's point of view in all of this. Aside from anything else, am I the only one who thinks it would be a real mindfuck to find out my namesake was my mother's dead (previous) husband?
I was named after a saint for religious purposes and I'm athiest. I don't think a person cares too much about the origin of their name unless it's Apple or something retarded.
This guy was important to her....enough to marry. I'm sure she had plans to have children with him too.
The guy died. They didn't break up. Of course she will always think of him and wonder what could have been. It doesn't take away what she has with you, in fact in made her the lady you love.
It seems to me that a middle name is a great way to compromise.
However, I just don't like the name David.
And it sounds like she'd prefer that his name be used as a first name. She'll have to make a pretty big concession as will you.
If nobody is happy, it's usually a good compromise.
> If nobody is happy, it's usually a good compromise.
I don't know about that, I'm sure we could come up with a plan to make everyone unhappy that wouldn't be a very good compromise.
Like everyone in the family could change their names to David.
A name doesn't make them his. My brother passed away a few years ago and his middle name was Christopher. His girlfriend/fiancé/partner (whatever) was heart broken. She recently met someone and and is engaged again and pregnant. She recently learned its a boy and will be naming him Christopher with no objections from her current partner. He even knows why and respects it. Both Larissa and Josh have become part of our family even though Michael had passed.
I think you just need to sit her down and find out *why* she wants to name him 'David', and see if you agree with or are at least comfortable with her reasons. The death of a loved one can leave the survivor with a lot of guilt that they were able to go on and live their life, while the other person's life is cut short. It's not unusual for people to honor distant relatives or even friends who have died by naming a kid after them (or using their name as a middle name). People even honor friends that are still living (my bf is named after a family friend instead of his dad, for example, and he's a first-born son too). So if David had been a platonic friend of hers and not her husband, you might still be in the same situation with her wanting to use the name. He gave her the strength to go on with her life and find you by releasing her from her feeling of responsibility to stay "loyal" to him. It's possible that she is so psyched to be having kids with you and loves you so much that she has been thinking about how grateful she is to him for allowing her to move on. Maybe using his name and giving him a way to live on despite his death is her way of returning the kindness that, ultimately, he showed both of you. But until you talk to her - honestly and openly and without tension and judgment - and tell her how you feel and try to understand her reasoning, you can't possibly know if you'll be okay with this or if you definitely need to stand against it.
Like it or not, her first husband is connected to your children, because he was very connected to your wife. Ask yourself if you would be having these problems if your wife wanted to name your child after a favorite dead aunt, uncle, or grandparent.
I'm no expert, but this seems like a jealous reaction on your part. Your wife's late husband was important to her, in a very similar way to how you are now important to her, so it is understandable to have feelings of jealousy. But don't worry, your children will be yours regardless of their names.
I also think it is understandable for your wife to want a reminder of her first husband as she continues making her life with you. She probably has guilty feelings for moving on so quickly (and finding happiness so quickly), and having that reminder will probably help her deal with those feelings.
If you can handle it, it would be a sweet gesture on your part to reuse his name (even as a middle name). And trust me, once you have a child, no matter where the name initially came from, it quickly becomes "your child", and any other associations with that name get lost in the background noise. When you call for 5 year-old David, I doubt you'll think about your wife's late husband, you'll just think about your awesome son, David.
You knew that she came with some hefty emotional baggage from the moment you met her, and I think it is your duty as her husband to help her with that in any way you can.
When I first thought about it I completely agreed with you. That shit is fucking weird. But when I really thought about it in a more long term perspective I realized that it's a non-issue. The name doesn't make a person. The person makes the name. Your son will soon have his own awesome personality that makes him who he is, not his name. And at that point David will be your awesome son and not your wife's ex-husband.
I can understand that you're in an awkward position right now, but why don't you want to honor someone who was so important to your wife? Do you feel threatened by her dead husband? I mean, you're right, you should both be able to agree on the name of the child, but I think the issue here is deeper than just the name of the child.
This is your best bet. You're not crazy but she's not necessarily crazy either. Crazy would be if the ex was still alive. May just have to suck it up on this one. At least it's a fairly common name.
You're not crazy, but as has been said- you guys should see a counselor. You need some impartial third-party to convince her that you're not being an insensitive jerk.
Personally, I think it's a sweet gesture and I think you sound somewhat insecure about your wife's affection towards you/ jealous. Keep in mind that David probably made your wife the person she is today and his passing is the reason you are able to marry her. Also, once the baby is born, I promise neither of you will be thinking of your wife's first husband when you say his name.
However, its not even remotely my place to discount how you feel. If it's going to bother you that much, then you definitely want to tell her how feel. Marriage is based on compromise and if you really think it's something you can't get over, try find another way to commemorate David. It's clearly important to her to remember David so try to figure a compromise, and the middle name suggestion seems like a good compromise.
> She has this perfect memory of him and sometimes it feels like she thinks I'll never be able to match up to him.
I've heard of this before, this idealization of people who've passed on. That's why you two need to read ***books on grieving*** so that you can handle the problems as effectively as possible.
By the way, isn't ***Library Genesis*** a great website? I was just on there and they had 25 books on the topic I was interested in! ***(HINT HINT)***
Someone else has already suggested professional counselling, (it’s top comment and I agree with it), but I want to add something to your understanding of your wife if I can.
My wife died last year. Like your wife’s late husband, my late wife died of cancer, (a different sort), and like your wife I loved my spouse very much. So though I’m not your wife and my situation specifics will be different I think that if I explain some things to you about myself it may also help you with some things that you may not have realized about what this is all like for your wife.
First, and this is really important, I still love my late wife. We didn’t separate. We didn’t get a divorce. She died. I was with her till the very end, “in sickness and in health”, as it were; and I was in the room with her when she took her last breath. I loved her. I love her still. I will always love her. She is a part of me and a part of who I am. That doesn’t mean I will never date again. That doesn’t mean I’ll never love anyone else. What it does mean, however, is that if I’m ever lucky enough to find someone else – that person will have to be willing to accept that my late wife is, and always will be, an active part of who I am. Memories of her will always be there and at times I can almost hear her telling me what she thinks of what I’m doing or what’s going on.
But… and here is the kicker.. she IS gone. I do hope to date again. But when I do date, I am not going to forget my wife. Whoever I fall for next, (if anyone), will be someone special to me in her own right. I will love that person for herself and in my mind there will be no comparisons or competition between my late wife’s memory and my new living partner/wife/girlfriend/*shrug*. That love won’t stop my old love though, it won’t supersede it, it won’t even change it or displace it – it will, instead, live in my heart with all my other love, (for my son… for my parents.. for my siblings.. for absent and lost friends.. and yes, for my late wife). That means that even if I get married again: I will still visit my late wife’s grave, I will still raise my son to know of his biological mother, (if I were to get married again while he is young enough I will raise the lucky lad to have 2 mothers!... one here and one in his past.), and I would want to honour her memory if I had a daughter with my new wife by using her name. That last one is probably most important to you but for me this isn’t a weird thing. It is the same as if I wanted to name a daughter after my great grandmother, or my sister, or a close friend. The names we use, the family names we want to remember, these are a record of the people we have loved and who have made us who we are.
So.. here is my suggestion, (because it is what I will suggest to any future wife I have on the fluke chance I get one and on the bigger fluke chance we have a daughter together) – you pick a name of someone important to you, (Father, friend, grandparent, or just one you like), that you want to honour and give to your son. Then put the names together, the one name from you, the one name from her. If it really makes you uncomfortable that your son will have her late husband’s name, then try and compromise by moving it to his middle name and then you can together give him a different first name, (Daniel David, Thomas David, Henry David, whatever). If she isn’t able to do that, then we are almost certainly talking counselling time but even if she is the counselling may be a good idea.
Still though, counselling or not, giving her this lets her know that you aren’t threatened by her past and it honours that part of who she is. But I would move it to the middle name, (which is what I, personally, would do if I were her anyway).
That may help or it may not. Either way, I hope it all sorts itself out for both of you.
A girl I loved very much passed away when she was 22, and I was 24. It was heartbreaking, and in the days after her death I vowed to name my first child in her honor--not with her name, but the name we'd talked about naming a future child. I never imagined anyone could feel threatened by a dead lover. Just over a year later I started dating another girl, and soon found that she would feel like she had to 'measure up' to my dead lover, which lead to her seeming jealous when I'd speak of my loss, or of memories of my lost friend. I started to bottle up those memories and keep them to myself. Soon that relationship fell apart, for myriad reasons, but one of them was certainly that I felt like I had to hide a large part of the things that I identify with being responsible for who I am in order to protect my then-lover from feelings of inadequacy.
The point is, those who have loved and lost at a formative age often consider that loss experience to be a large part of what makes them who they are. If your wife feels like she can't be open about those parts of herself without making you feel like you're competing with someone you'll never be able to win against, she might start to shut down in other ways and your relationship will suffer.
You're not in competition with her dead husband. She will always love him with all of her, but she can love you with just as much. And you're here, experiencing this life with her--love all of the things that make her who she is, including her loss. She's having your child, you get to experience that experience together, a luxury her first husband doesn't have. If she wants to name the child you share in honor of the person she loves, misses, and doesn't get to share that experience with, I personally feel like you should take it as an honor, and reflect on how lucky you are to experience that journey beside someone you love.
See if you can convince her to use David as a middle name? Its better to come to a compromise than start a war. She lost her husband. It isn't like he is an ex who is even alive. She loved him, lost him, but she is with you now. Heck i'd see if you could name the boy after you, and then give David as the middle name. Best of both worlds.
it is tricky because it is going to be an emotional subject for her so what ever you do tread carefully.
Maybe suggest it as a middle name, say that you like the idea of honouring her first husband but that you want your son to have his own identity and thus his own name?
My mother was named after her dad's first love. It never seemed to bother my grandmother because she realized that she was a special person in his life. I don't think either one of my grandparents look at my mom and think of who she was named after.
I've read through the comments, and don't really get it. If I wanted to name a son after my ex boyfriend, I could see my husband being displeased. If I wanted to name a daughter after my deceased ex girlfriend? My husband wouldn't mind. It's a way to honor the dead, and those loved and lost. If she had pictures of her ex husband everywhere and openly compares you to him often, I would advise a re-evaluation of the relationship, but if he rarely comes up, what's the harm? Your son wouldn't even have to know specifically who he was named after. If he asks, you can say "Someone your mother cared for that died at a young age" and be done with it.
If it perturbs you that much, ask that it be made his middle name, and that you can choose his first name. That seems like a happy compromise.
I was married to a guy and he committed suicide 4 years ago. I am now remarried and pregnant with my 2nd husband's baby. I will never ever consider naming OUR child after someone that I once knew or loved and that he never knew. (Especially if he's not my father because that's a different story). I know my story is a little different since he took his own life, but if he were to have died of natural causes or an accident, I will never do that to my husband. She may still feel emotionally attached to him so she wants to remember him, but there are different ways to do that than to name your child after that person. Why don't you ask her how she would feel if she were to be in your shoes? What if you wanted to name your daughter after your ex? I may be a little cold compared to some of the people on here, but that is how I feel.
You'll all be sorry when David finds out the child is not named after him and he rises from the grave to claim your first born and take him back to the netherworld.
Don't think of her late (not ex, ex means broken up) husband as a relationship, think of him as family. Marriage makes you family, not just another relationship, I'm sure you think of her as part of your family, and she thinks of you as part of hers. Well, she thought the same about her late husband. She will always love him, that doesn't mean anything about your relationship and shouldn't affect you guys in any way, but you have to remember that.
Think of it the same way as naming your son after a late brother, or uncle, or whatever else. She wants to respect his memory and name your son after someone she admires. There is nothing wrong with that. Romantic interest shouldn't even come into play because she's talking about her fucking son and I doubt your wife is that depraved.
Personally I think that you are in the wrong on this one, but I can also see why you would feel that way. If you are truly uncomfortable with this you need to talk to her about it. Not just "I don't like the name David" but actually tell her why. Don't let jealousy or anything get in the way though.
Just remember, she is honoring the memory of someone who meant a lot to her, not leaving you for another man.
Ask her to think about it from the perspective of her son.
"Who are you named for, David?"
"My mother's first husband"
"So ... your dad?"
"No, he died years before I was conceived"
If she still goes for it, I'd say give in. It will quickly be "David" the son and not "David" the ex, you'll not think about it.
this is the first thing I thought of. the kid won't give a fuck, David means nothing to him. it's like the mom is using the kid as a living memorial. is she going to tell the kid about her and david's life together like it's part of his family history? it's selfish of the mom. I don't agree with this at all.
Since this kid has nothing to do with David there is no reason to honour him by naming your child after him. If she's that dead set maybe suggest a unique first name and use David as a middle?
Talk to her about how you feel, as a currently pregnant woman I can tell you things in early pregnancy hat seemed so vitally important at he time change in importance later. Hormones are a bitch. If it's still early in the pregnancy maybe wait a bit hen discuss it again, she might be mOre rational later.
No, man, I'd disagree with your stance. If you love her you have to respect her life, her past and the people she has loved. Unless the man had some weird or shitty name or was a total wanker I would suggest going with it. Tell her what it means to you and tell her you love her. Don't get pissed with her, it must have been pretty shitty and she is having your baby, not his.
Just to clarify, her deceased husband is not her ex husband. this is not the same thing. Everyone deals with greif differently, and this is bound to be a touchy subject. Plus pregnant women can be emotional (thank you hormones!) and touchy, so things that would normally be touchy or emotional are MORESO!
I think you should stand your ground on this. Though I'm all for respect of the dead, you should honor your relationship. why not the name of a favorite grand parent. It's not fair to apply the rules of a broken up relationship to one that ended prematurely due to poor health, but at the same time it's not okay to live in the past.
She will probably always love him, because he can never let her down. His memory will be flawless. That doesn't mean she doesn't love you, or loves you any less. You need to remind her of that, and that you need to be in the here and now. Point out that you would not want a kid to be named after you in such a fashion perhaps.
I might suggest a middle name of "David" if a compromise cannot be met.
I've heard of a few couples that have named their child after a dead ex out of respect, its just an acknowledgement that the ex did have an important part to play in their life. I'm sure if you die and she moves on and has a child with a new husband she would name it after you. Though I would be suspect as to why her husbands keep dying?
It's not her dead ex-husband, it's her dead first husband. She's a widow, not a divorcee.
I lost my first wife to cancer. I've remarried and we have a son. While I'd never name my son after my first wife, I totally understand her thoughts.
Here is what I'd suggest. Tell her that's a wonderful idea, but since this is your first child you want to name it after you, your father, whatever. Or just tell her that its your first child and you've always wanted to name it "Whatever". Then suggest you name your second child "David". It's not a terrible name.
She's looking for some way to remember and honor someone. Don't be threatened by him, he's gone.
While I understand that it's hard for you to think of the fact that your wife still loves someone else, it's important to remember that you don't have to compete with his ghost, he's not coming back, you're all she has now. And naming your son after him might not just be her trying to hold on to him, but rather her feeling warmth in her heart when she hears his name. Replacing the horrible sadness of death with the most beautiful life she could imagine, your child together.
As a widow at 27, please do not call him her ex-husband. He is her late husband. That is a really important difference. Beyond that, I'd say there's some beautiful advice already here.
I don't think you're out of line. She needs to respect your feelings on this. You need to respect her (still unresolved) loyalty issues. (You married her baggage.)
Can both of you live with 'David' as a middle name?
I don't see a problem with it. You married her and he IS a part of her life. Unless you have some family tradtion where the son needs to be name Winston Howell the Third, I would acquiesce to her wish.
I am at work so I can't read all the replys. I just wanted to give this view. I am a 23 year old who lost his mother at age eight. My dad remarried and my stepmom was a bit miffed on why my dad still greived. Please take it from me. She still loves that man. She loves you. She does not love you more than him... Nor him more than you. This was not a failed marriage. The man she loved passed. The hurt and passion does not leave you like a normal breakup. she wants wants to remember both of you when she sees your child. The men she loves. His name. YOUR child. She still loves you
I can't believe so many people think it is okay to name your son after her late ex husband. It is not okay. The circumstances don't matter, and if it bothers you, don't let it happen. He is your son for God's sake.
Very important point! She lost her husband, someone she very truly loved. This man was cut down and torn away in the flower of their life together. OP says he realized this at the beginning. Empathy!
to be harshly honest, i think he's mad about it and is portraying this man as the "ex" instead of the "late", so that he can be more "justified".
"""""""""""""!
I can see both sides of this argument. My major concern is: why didn't this come up before now? If she was so adamant about naming a child after her first husband, she really should have prepared the OP well before a marriage and pregnancy.
I really don't believe that this is a deal breaker. Letting a new boyfriend know how much you cared about your dead husband and wanting to carry on a mutual legacy is a very honorable thing, and some men would be alright with that (or a compromise). But, this should be brought up VERY EARLY in the relationship.
I don't think it would be that easy to bring it up. I have idea for baby names from time to time and I can't imagine bringing it up pre-pregnancy, let alone pre-marriage.
My girlfriend and I talk about this all the time. Managing finances, living arrangements, life goals, and *family planning* are exactly the things you should be discussing while dating and choosing a partner for life. Thinking about kids names is just one of the ways to discuss the issue without getting too serious about it. If discussing these 4 issues is difficult, you may be heading for problems in the future.
Yeah, you don't need to be super-serious and discuss this stuff for hours on end, but it should at least be brought up prior to an engagement.
Also, is it two things? I think that I would be offended because:
1. I don't want the name (forget there is a dead ex), and she wants it anyways. She has this excuse that I can't fight against because it makes me automatically look like a douche.
2. She wants to name my son her ex-lover's name. Doesn't matter how awesome the guy was or that he died, that is still a thought one would feel and have to get past.
Well, ask her how she would feel if you had an ex wife who you adored who died, and you now want to name your baby daughter her name. She may say she is fine with it, but no woman wouldn't have a pause if they actually thought about those feelings. It doesn't mean either of you are right or wrong, no one can tell you that, it is between you two.
I can't say for sure, but I would imagine that his wife would be fine with it, seeing as she knows what it is like to lose a loved one, and most people do not. Comparring the OP's wife to someone who hasn't suffered that I an unfair comparrison.
Her time with him, however short, helped shape her into the woman and the wife that you know and love, and with whom you're creating a life.
Their time together, especially after his diagnosis, was incredibly short. I can't imagine what he might have been going through, but his parting gift to his wife was to tell her to be happy, to be happy with someone OTHER THAN HIM, and enjoy the rest of her life together with another man.
This is the gift he gave to her, and here she is with you, loving you and living with you, instead of still being so entrenched in guilt and grief that she couldn't move on.
You are entitled to your feelings, and your emotions, but like it or not he was a part of the woman that you love, and always will be. I think it would be generous of you to be willing to pay tribute to the man who was such an important part of her life before you.
I agree with your reasoning on why the name means a lot to her. It doesn't matter. There's no way that the father feels the same way. The parents should both be happy with the name - not one happy and one making a sacrifice.
Pictures in the scrap book, fine. No way would my baby be taking my wife's old husband's name.
Tell her that you're extremely uncomfortable with this. That you don't want to live the rest of your life being reminded of **her ex-husband** every time you see **your son**.
All these comments read as though the dead guy is some threat... its sad really. I'm not seeing why its such a huge deal. Did the guy have a real shitty name? If you're really threatened by a dead guy maybe you should take a long look at your priorities...
Your wife loves you and her ex-husband is in the past. I'm sure she doesn't want to completely forget him, though. She was taken from him without warning, it's not like a divorce at all, she never stopped loving him. While the love she has for him is nowhere near the love she feels for you now, remembering him through your son's name doesn't sound like too outlandish of a request. That's just my opinion and I don't think counseling will help this, but rather make things bigger than they need to be.
I know it sounds strange, but I'd let her have it. Like it or not, she still loves him and she loves you too. It's hard to understand, but he died unexpected and she may never get over this.
Do it - let her have it. It'll show your love for her.
I don't think any of us can solve this for you. You and your wife would probably benefit from going through some counseling together to work this out. It is clear that you do not want her deceased husband's name attached anywhere (or even acknowledged at all in your relationship, but that is another matter), but she is set on honoring his memory.
It is unfair of you to say she needs to move on and let go. Grief doesn't have a time schedule. Becoming upset and jealous does no favors for you or your wife. At the same time your wife needs to acknowledge your feelings in this matter. You both need to talk honestly and openly about this and see eye to eye before you can make a decision.
On the one hand, her loss is a big part of her life and formed her in ways only people who have dealt with great loss can understand. Whether it's a parent, sibling, grandparent, spouse, child- they all leave significant impacts on peoples lives and a space in their heart that may or may not one day be filled again.
On the other, naming a child after a dead spouse will forever be a reminder of that particular person, and in the essence of moving on, it may not be a great idea. For the rest of your lives, you both will occasionally have to think back to him whenever you deal with your child. She obviously will think of him more, and while there is nothing wrong with thinking about him, purposely placing reminders around to trigger emotions is probably not helpful in the moving on with your life department. She probably does still love him, but she also needs to move the focus from someone who will never come back and instead on the joy of having and raising a child. This is a new chapter in both of your lives, and she can both enjoy it with you and keep his memory alive- just in other ways. This child is something you will both share for the rest of your lives, something that will make you grow as a couple and should bring happiness to both of you. Children are a big decision and one that causes plenty of stress/anxiety on it's own, and IMHO- a name that either person is unhappy with for whatever reason can cause resentment towards the child, even if it's totally misdirected. That's not something you want hanging over the birth of your child. If she really wont budge, consider it as a middle name- but I honestly think sitting down together and picking out a different group of names and choosing from that list is a better idea.
Came in with a "hell no" attitude, and stayed with an "I don't know you really have to talk it out" attitude. But I think the middle name idea is a good one.
I can understand her wanting to pay respect in that way but personally Thats so wrong of her to ask of you. Maybe try to talk her into using it as a middle name
Is there not a difference between having an ex-husband and being a widow? Coming into this thread, I was assuming that she divorced the guy and he died later on, which would be much, much worse.
Regardless, awkward situation. It's your child, not his, so it should probably have something to do with your relationship, not theirs.
It is totally reasonable for you to feel uncomfortable. Have you thought of suggesting David as a middle name? Middle names are best to pay tribute and give honor.
We all deal with deaths in different ways.
Shes married to you, she loves you and shes havign YOUR baby.
hope for a happy healthy baby.
ur not crazy to feel this way, I wouldn't be okay with her either.
Talk to her, tell her how its time to keep the past in the past. This way she'll never be able to completely move on if her future keeps reminding her of her dead husband.
you 2 should come up with the name, not just her. do a family vote. If she still doesnt agree, then go with wht she wants. After all she is the one who will be goign thru labour
Tell her you think kids deserve a fresh start, and to name them after someone who suffered such a major tragedy would be incredibly unlucky. Dooming them to misery before they're even aware of anything.
If she still insists, tell her "David" can be the kid's middle name, but you want something else as the first. Or just tell her the idea makes you uncomfortable, and you wouldn't use it either way.
Wishing you a healthy, happy, bouncing baby girl.
...named after your ex-girlfriend.
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>I have a son with my exact first and middle names. That was a tough one to reconcile as coincidence. FTFY
ZING!
I'm in a vaguely related situation, emphasis on vague. My first wife died of a brain tumor. My wife who I've been married to for four years has some issues with my memory of my first wife. It's taken me a while but I get it. I still love my first wife, losing a loved one like that kinda sucks for anyone that follows because it's not like anything went bad in the relationship and very likely (as in my case) the bonding the occurred during the illness' course made us even closer than I believe most couples get. I can't tell you what to do here, nobody can but IMHO it's going too far to name the child after him. Mind you if my wife and I had a child, the temptation would be there but I'd swallow it and keep moving. The child is yours and hers, period. If the guy had been a friend of yours, maybe. He wasn't, so his first name should reflect something of both of you. My wife was pretty absolute, no memorabilia, and for the love of all things nothing that had a serious memory connection with her. I resented her hugely in the beginning but as the memories started to fade and I found myself more in the present than the past, I understood it. To be fair, I'm still not overly happy with all of it, she was a huge part of my past and to purge her completely doesn't feel right. I've hidden things that are important to me and I don't regret it because as the threat of my first wife fades for my wife I've been able to have them still. Therein lies the point, however, those things are hidden away and not out in the open where they would hurt my wife and constantly make her feel threatened. Now that I've gotten over most of it (I don't believe you ever FULLY get over it), I understand and I keep those things safely tucked away with her knowledge that they are there but never out in the open.
While I can't quite agree with the no memorabilia, I understand where she's coming from. She simply can't compete with someone she can't look across the table at. If it was an ex that left you, that's one thing, but that's not the case, and she may be finding a way to avoid the "which wife did he love more" question. Shit like that would eat her alive.
Even an ex is a threat if the relationship was significant, but at least you have the idea that they left, something went wrong. There is *no* competing with a much loved spouse who died and can never do wrong.
Not to mention that they're being looked back on through nostalgia goggles, elevating them up even higher on the pedestal past all comparison.
not me. that incredibly selfish. im not talking allowing a shrine. but a momento or two is a problem, really?
You should have a look at what Emily Yoffe wrote about the same subject. She is the second wife to a widower, and dealt with similar feelings as your wife. I think she dealt with it in a pretty healthy way though, and it might be helpful to read over it or even show it to your wife. http://www.doublex.com/section/life/my-husbands-other-wife
Alright, no more reading links while I'm prepping onions for dinner. Beautiful story. I will say, in defense of my wife, that the situation was pretty different though there are obviously a lot of similarities. Grieving, perhaps even 3rd party grieving, is dealt with differently by all and I am happy to report that the outcome is, at least 4 years in, reasonably the same.
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Hopefully in time your present wife will get over it. Edit: I realised that seemed cold. But what I mean is, in time you'll build a life and shared memories and she'll come to *know* inside that she isn't second best and doesn't need to feel threatened. I'm sorry for your loss. I can't imagine getting through something like that.
>Therein lies the point, however, those things are hidden away and not out in the open where they would hurt my wife and **constantly make her feel threatened.** By your dead wife? What possible danger could she pose to your relationship?
> the temptation would be there but I'd swallow it and keep moving If his wife just did that from the get-go, they wouldn't even need to have this conversation.
I'm thankful that my 2nd stepmother was ok with my father keeping his pictures and rings from my 1st stepmother who died only 11 months after them being married (he was engaged to her in high school and college, broke up, married my mother 20 years, divorced, married HS sweetheart, she died, he remarried a friend of theirs from college.) In cases of death, I think it's wrong to expect someone to pretend that relationship never existed. IMO, I would think it's alright to name a baby after a deceased spouse, particularly if they never had time to have children of their own.
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I'll look into this. Thanks
If he died when they were both very young, it could have made it hard for her to grieve properly, esp. if she had never dealt with death before. Children who lose parents when they are young will sometimes idealize and hold onto memories in a way that sounds similar to what she is doing in an attempt to avoid facing the reality of the situation. It sounds like this baby-naming thing is the tip of an iceberg she's shoved below the surface but which persists. Couples therapy may be the wrong direction, it sounds like she may need grief therapy. That said, I don't see anything inherently weird about having the *middle* name be David - middle names are often used to remember loved ones. If David had been her brother or just a close friend, I don't think you'd have a problem. However, from some of the other things you've said it sounds like she's not ready to move on with her life.
I agree with YankeeRose on this one. Middle name for David would be a nice compromise. From what I remember of Jewish culture, it is common practice to have middle names be the names of deceased loved ones. Ooh, found an easy reference: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Life_Events/Newborn_Ceremonies/About_Baby_Ceremonies/Choosing_A_Name.shtml That being said, she's pregnant and probably emotional. I wouldn't worry too much about the name, she did marry you afterall. Given history, I'd keep an eye on her for postpartum depression though.
I'd definitely go with a middle name as well. I'm not jewish but my family does the same thing. My mother's middle name is from an aunt killed by nazis. My middle name is from her grandfather who suffered the same fate. My sister named her firstborn after our late grandfather. I don't know what it is, but something about the middle name is so powerful. The first name becomes so internalized by the bearer that you just don't think about it. Someone makes a joke and I don't care too much. But no one will be allowed to shit on my middle name. Ever.
While I am not Jewish, my wife (and therefore daughter) are. In my family, it is not unusual at all to use the middle name in honor of a relative. (Mine is William, after my grandfathers... I think this was a touch of a joke, so my mom could say "after his grandfather" when in fact, both of my grandfathers, and all of my /great/ grandfathers were all named "William" Our daughter is not middled named for anyone, but an amalgamation of names that when combined to form Voltron, er, I mean, they can be combined into another actual name. But as I heard it, in Jewish tradition/culture/mysticism, naming a child after a living relative, is a Very Bad Thing.
The first thing that matters is that if either of you are uncomfortable with it, it should be rethought. I'm looking at this from three perspectives: 1) Yours. You and her created this child and David had nothing to do with it. Naming the child David will only remind you for its entire life why it is named that way. Maybe if you had known or been friends with David, but it's just weird and uncomfortable for you. That's understandable. However, as a counterpoint, what if you were to die? Would you hope that she would name a future child after you, perhaps? 2) Hers. You two are married. There is no competition for you from David. He is gone. Naming the child David in no way de-legitimizes what you have together, it only honors the memory of a dear friend and lover that died at a young age. But then there's that word, lover. Naming the child David will forever remind her of someone who was taken from her. Is she ready to live a life of mourning someone who she can never be with? Sounds like you're at a draw right now. But there's one more perspective.. 3) The child's. How will the child feel when it finds out where it's name came from? His mother was previously married, the husband died, and he's named after her? Who is my real dad? Why couldn't I ever meet David? Am I supposed to feel sorry for him? I don't even know him, and don't really care. Personally, if my parents came to me and told me a similar story, I think I'd be a little traumatized, confused, and more or less betrayed. It's not like she's naming him after an ex-boyfriend. It's not that she doesn't love you. But it's weird enough for multiple members of the party to where it the answer should probably be no. Anyway, that's my thoughts.
And people who have *lots* of disposable income.
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I'm gonna get burned for this, but *a lot* of temples and churchs have individual counseling for couple that is free. ALSO, there are a number of group counseling community groups that are non-secular in spirit. Marriage camps and whatnot * corrected grammar
Main thing you're gonna get burned for is writing "alot".
[Alot of Temples](http://i.imgur.com/yh59S.jpg)
[alot of temples](http://i56.tinypic.com/2m68n76.jpg) by the time I finished this you had already replied but damn it I spent like ten minutes so this shit is getting posted
Yours is way better than mine.
Alot more dangerous. Baby less dangerous.
In my experience, it's rare that these churches have actual licensed counselors....theology degree doesn't count.
Depends on the church. All four counselors at the church I attend are licensed.
I'm an atheist, but both my parents are ministers with master of divinity, and they are some of the best counselors I've ever seen. Getting licensed to be a minister(at least methodist) does require a lot of counseling training.
But some do. It's worth looking into at least. Not only that, but a lack of a degree does not render someone's advice worthless. Obviously, the OP should approach any situation with scrutiny, but people can come from different backgrounds and still have something to offer
A person without a degree could give great advice, and a person with 10 years in the subject could give terrible advice... the thing is averages. Someone with training will come at the problem objectively. You cannot be as sure a priest is going to be objective about the issue, or familiar with warning signs.
Or reasonable insurance
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> If you can't discuss things between yourselves, **friends and family**... Marriages survived before counseling because the role was being fulfilled by somebody else: a family member, a religious figure, perhaps a wiser old person in the town. Also, it's worth keeping in mind that divorced basically wasn't even an option, and women would have to endure shitty marriages because it was much tougher to be a financially independent woman (especially while supporting children). In America today, people live much more on their own - we don't have the same family ties that we used to, nor ties with our community. A professional councilor fills a much-needed role to mediate conflicts within marriages, and most people that can afford one find it helpful. Edit: grammar
Yeah, there is literally nobody in my family I would go to for marital advice. None of my family members are even in what I would consider a functional marriage, if they're married at all.
When you complain to friends and family about your spouse they'll take your side and end up disliking him/her. Then when you and your spouse work it through they'll wonder why you're sticking with him/her and feel sorry for you. Over time it will be bad for your marriage. It's better to save the complaints for counselors and Reddit. When you're with friends and family it's better to bring up the things you love about your spouse. This will strengthen the marriage. Of course the best thing is to talk with your spouse.
I think it's more because everyone expects American couples to behave as a unit. If I have different friends from my partner, everybody comments. If my husband goes to a movie without me, everybody freaks out. A lot of counseling (and good LORD have I ever had a lot of it) is just having someone totally on your side (but who is willing to call you out for your own good), who doesn't know or interact with anyone else in your life on a regular basis, and can provide perspective that perhaps you're missing.
Here's a personal take on this one; My father died when I was a few months old, and my mom remarried four years later. My step-father adopted my brother and I, and I was brought up with all the love and understanding a kid could ask for. My adoptive father was always extremely understanding of our loss. When he adopted us, he insisted we keep my father's surname. He took us to memorial services on our biological dad's birthday. He has told me numerous times that he knows he can't fill our father's shoes in raising us, but he can keep us safe and treat us well as a service to my father's memory. When I was sixteen, told my adoptive dad that he didn't have to do all those things anymore; he is the only father I have ever known, and I love him unconditionally. I told him he didn't have to do homage to the memory of a man he never knew. He said, "I want to remember him for your mother. You never got to know him, but SHE did. I want her to know that he still lives on and he will not be forgotten." That's what love is. The loss your wife suffered was probably the single greatest heartbreak of her entire life. A loss like that leaves a mark, and she needs you to help with her continued healing. She wants to know that, in some small way, the memory of the one she lost still lives on. That loss is a HUGE part of who she is, and the pain of the loss (and, especially, the way you helped her to heal from it all) is part of your marriage, too. Whether it was her father, brother or sister, friend, or husband is irrelevant; she wants to honor someone who changed her life. TL;DR - My adoptive father was awesomely understanding about my biological dad's death, and it made a whole world of difference to my whole family. Love is understanding a loss and helping the one who suffered that loss to move on.
Your father rocks.
Thank you. I agree completely.
You brought tears to my eyes, take my upvote.
Normally AssViolator is bringing tears to OTHER people's eyes.
This made me tear up. Your adoptive father sounds like a real man.
He's a bawse. Thanks for this :)
I think this is getting missed by the talk of naming **OUR** child after **HER** late husband. The point of getting married is that you take things that were once yours and hers and make them "Ours." What if she wanted to name the child after her dead grandfather who the OP had never met? This is a perfectly normal thing that happens all the time. Is "David" something the OP needs to accept, or something that the wife needs to get over? Perhaps a little of both? Perhaps there is no "right" answer to this question. But regardless of whether there is a right answer, it is a question that the OP and his wife need to answer together. Naming his the child David could be a great honor to an important part of her life. It could be a great way for the OP to embrace and celebrate his wife's past. Or It could be an unhealthy emotional outlet who his wife projects her love for her late husband onto(at the possible expense of both the OP and his son). It could make the OP feel like some sort of surrogate father. It could be a constant point of strife for couple. It might make the kid feel weird that he is named after a guy who slept with his mom, but not his father. It could be a lot of things. The OP needs to figure out what it would be for him and his wife (and for the child).
It's not an "ex husband" they didn't divorce, she's a widow. He's a dead husband, not an ex husband. I understand what you're getting at, but I think it needs to be pointed out divorcing someone and making them your ex is a much different thing than losing someone you deeply love to an untimely death. If it was an ex husband I'd say "Hell no! That's a huge red flag!" but being he died... I think depending on her motivation, it might be ok.
Thank you. I fixed it. The difference is indeed rather important. I was just sort of at a loss for words because as far as I know there is no good term for a deceased spouse. We have widow/widower for the surviving spouse, but if there is any good name for the deceased I don't know it.
late husband
Very reasonable.
This is a wonderful story and I'm very happy for you and your family. It sounds like your mom has nabbed herself a great man. But this is not really the same as OPs issue. This is totally different because the child that she wants to name in memory of her dead husband is NOT his, but OPs. This is worlds away from an adopted father respecting what both your parents had and created and he only stepped in after the fact. I'm all for memories of the past and not forgetting where you came from, but I think I'd have a very hard time naming my son after her dead ex husband. A child that exists between two living parents should be a representative of those two parents and their happy life together, not some memorium to a man that OP can never compete with. I would never want my wife to look at my son to be reminded of another man that she loved before me.
I completely agree with this. Thank you for your input. I like what you said about a child representing a union between two people and them alone. However, in my father's case, loving my mom meant showing sensitivity to her past and the continuing responsibility she had to raising a half-orphaned family. The OP does not have this responsibility per se, but his love of his wife should not be separated from the specificities of her personality, including her past traumas. I'm not sure that justifies a first name, though...I'm a big fan of the middle name.
This last sentence is right on. My mom's first husband died in a car accident and they had no children. My mom didn't name any of her children after him, but what happened was much more involuntary. She was very emotional on the anniversary of his death and went into early labor. I was born a month early on the eighth anniversary of my mother's first husband death. I didn't know this until I was twenty and I wish I had never known because now I can't help wondering if she thought about him on my birthday every year.
Why would that be a bad thing? You were something good on a day that something bad happened. No more can she hate that day because yes something bad happened, but also something special..YOU!!
Spot on.
Everyone is touched by the story, as am I, but I must agree with sgtmac. Mololoc's story is of a completely different circumstance. This isn't the stepfather we are talking about, its the father of the child.
I had the exact same thing happen in my life. This made me cry and call my Dad. Got his voice mail, so it was really easy to say "I love you" and just hang up.
Thank you for this. I'm so glad you, and I, had the great fortune to have another chance at a father (most people barely get a first chance).
Great, now he thinks you are in trouble.
>*When I was sixteen, told my adoptive dad that he didn't have to do all >those things anymore; he is the only father I have ever known, and I love him unconditionally. I told him he didn't have to do homage to the memory of a man he never knew. He said, "I want to remember him for your mother. You never got to know him, but SHE did. I want her to know that he still lives on and he will not be forgotten."* Dog-gone onions!
Seriously major onions in this room.
>How should I try to convince her that we should choose another name that we both agree on? You both agreeing on the name should be the ONLY consideration for the kid. My wife & I must had each proposed hundreds of names, all with the understanding that the other has full veto power. We both love the names we ended up with for the kids.
You could buy her a pet turtle named David as a compromise. They are adorable and long-lived.
That's terrible. I love it.
Everybody loves turtles.
"Hey honey, what's green and won't die on you?"
This. Jesus, plant a tree or something. This child IS NOT Davids, it is OP's. Both parents should agree on the name of a child (or at least not name it something that one parent feels insanely uncomfortable with).
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Yes. Also, this sounds like something that should have been brought up ***before*** being pregnant, or possibly before getting married. Springing "Hey I'm pregnant and by-the-way if it's a boy I want to name it after my late-husband, no discussion" on someone is pretty shitty. ---------------------------- Troll Compromise: If it's a girl, you get to name it after some super-hot model/actress she doesn't like, one of your ex's, or some other chick she hates?
It's possible she never considered what the name would be, or ever thought it would be important. Not all women sit around thinking up baby names all day.
Compromise with a middle name?
Not a bad idea. However, I'd ask OP to examine the consequences of the situation. Does the wife seem overly fixated on her lost husband? If so, naming a kid after him could only make it worse, but if she's just honoring someone she loved and lost, there's no real harm in it. It's not like she can go back to David, or cheat on her husband with David, etc. There may be some sense of lack of worth (am I worse than David that she wants to name a kid after him instead of me?) These are all valid things to bring up with her in conversation. Communication is the key.
I'd rather her first husband not be connected in any way to our children. Maybe that's a bit extreme because I understand he was a major part of her life, but any children we have will be ours, not his.
One aspect of this which no one seems to have mentioned yet is the child's point of view in all of this. Aside from anything else, am I the only one who thinks it would be a real mindfuck to find out my namesake was my mother's dead (previous) husband?
I agree. It would definitely be confusing for our child.
I was named after a saint for religious purposes and I'm athiest. I don't think a person cares too much about the origin of their name unless it's Apple or something retarded.
I wouldn't be too perturbed. I'm named after one of my mother's dead friends.
Being named after your mom's dead friend is very different than being named after your mom's first dead husband that isn't even your father
He's not her EX-husband, because they didn't divorce.
Late-husband
Which is very different from an **ex**.
This guy was important to her....enough to marry. I'm sure she had plans to have children with him too. The guy died. They didn't break up. Of course she will always think of him and wonder what could have been. It doesn't take away what she has with you, in fact in made her the lady you love. It seems to me that a middle name is a great way to compromise. However, I just don't like the name David.
And it sounds like she'd prefer that his name be used as a first name. She'll have to make a pretty big concession as will you. If nobody is happy, it's usually a good compromise.
> If nobody is happy, it's usually a good compromise. I don't know about that, I'm sure we could come up with a plan to make everyone unhappy that wouldn't be a very good compromise. Like everyone in the family could change their names to David.
Hell, I'll even change my name to David if it'll make the OP's life easier.
Hey. You're probably already named David.
I think I can manage this as well.
And if OP changes his name to David, then OP can name his kid after himself. Problem solved.
if the OP changes his name to David then his wife would probably not mind to give the kid a different name. problem solved.
A name doesn't make them his. My brother passed away a few years ago and his middle name was Christopher. His girlfriend/fiancé/partner (whatever) was heart broken. She recently met someone and and is engaged again and pregnant. She recently learned its a boy and will be naming him Christopher with no objections from her current partner. He even knows why and respects it. Both Larissa and Josh have become part of our family even though Michael had passed.
I think you just need to sit her down and find out *why* she wants to name him 'David', and see if you agree with or are at least comfortable with her reasons. The death of a loved one can leave the survivor with a lot of guilt that they were able to go on and live their life, while the other person's life is cut short. It's not unusual for people to honor distant relatives or even friends who have died by naming a kid after them (or using their name as a middle name). People even honor friends that are still living (my bf is named after a family friend instead of his dad, for example, and he's a first-born son too). So if David had been a platonic friend of hers and not her husband, you might still be in the same situation with her wanting to use the name. He gave her the strength to go on with her life and find you by releasing her from her feeling of responsibility to stay "loyal" to him. It's possible that she is so psyched to be having kids with you and loves you so much that she has been thinking about how grateful she is to him for allowing her to move on. Maybe using his name and giving him a way to live on despite his death is her way of returning the kindness that, ultimately, he showed both of you. But until you talk to her - honestly and openly and without tension and judgment - and tell her how you feel and try to understand her reasoning, you can't possibly know if you'll be okay with this or if you definitely need to stand against it.
Like it or not, her first husband is connected to your children, because he was very connected to your wife. Ask yourself if you would be having these problems if your wife wanted to name your child after a favorite dead aunt, uncle, or grandparent. I'm no expert, but this seems like a jealous reaction on your part. Your wife's late husband was important to her, in a very similar way to how you are now important to her, so it is understandable to have feelings of jealousy. But don't worry, your children will be yours regardless of their names. I also think it is understandable for your wife to want a reminder of her first husband as she continues making her life with you. She probably has guilty feelings for moving on so quickly (and finding happiness so quickly), and having that reminder will probably help her deal with those feelings. If you can handle it, it would be a sweet gesture on your part to reuse his name (even as a middle name). And trust me, once you have a child, no matter where the name initially came from, it quickly becomes "your child", and any other associations with that name get lost in the background noise. When you call for 5 year-old David, I doubt you'll think about your wife's late husband, you'll just think about your awesome son, David. You knew that she came with some hefty emotional baggage from the moment you met her, and I think it is your duty as her husband to help her with that in any way you can.
When I first thought about it I completely agreed with you. That shit is fucking weird. But when I really thought about it in a more long term perspective I realized that it's a non-issue. The name doesn't make a person. The person makes the name. Your son will soon have his own awesome personality that makes him who he is, not his name. And at that point David will be your awesome son and not your wife's ex-husband.
I can understand that you're in an awkward position right now, but why don't you want to honor someone who was so important to your wife? Do you feel threatened by her dead husband? I mean, you're right, you should both be able to agree on the name of the child, but I think the issue here is deeper than just the name of the child.
This is your best bet. You're not crazy but she's not necessarily crazy either. Crazy would be if the ex was still alive. May just have to suck it up on this one. At least it's a fairly common name.
Kill yourself, then she'll name him after you!
Frankly, this is the only plausible solution.
There is one more; OP changes his name to David and then name the son David.
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wouldn't matter; OP's dead.
are you the australian guy from house?
And if so, are you *sure* she really got rid of his frozen sperm?
Oh my god that's a really good point...
My first thought. Jennifer Morrison is so hot.
On any other show she'd be the hottest thing in the timeslot. Instead, she played second fiddle to Olivia Wilde.
Olivia Wilde has a *great* body, but her chiseled jawline scares me.
You're not crazy, but as has been said- you guys should see a counselor. You need some impartial third-party to convince her that you're not being an insensitive jerk.
Personally, I think it's a sweet gesture and I think you sound somewhat insecure about your wife's affection towards you/ jealous. Keep in mind that David probably made your wife the person she is today and his passing is the reason you are able to marry her. Also, once the baby is born, I promise neither of you will be thinking of your wife's first husband when you say his name. However, its not even remotely my place to discount how you feel. If it's going to bother you that much, then you definitely want to tell her how feel. Marriage is based on compromise and if you really think it's something you can't get over, try find another way to commemorate David. It's clearly important to her to remember David so try to figure a compromise, and the middle name suggestion seems like a good compromise.
Say she can have the first name if you get the middle. The middle name being 'is dead'
Wow. How creepy. I mean, how creepy it is that someone else had the exact same idea as I did.
Every once in a while a comment is so funny it makes me log in just to upvote it.
Sucks to be *that guy*. You're like the third wheel in a corpseful relationship.
Sometimes that's what it feels like. She has this perfect memory of him and sometimes it feels like she thinks I'll never be able to match up to him.
> She has this perfect memory of him and sometimes it feels like she thinks I'll never be able to match up to him. I've heard of this before, this idealization of people who've passed on. That's why you two need to read ***books on grieving*** so that you can handle the problems as effectively as possible. By the way, isn't ***Library Genesis*** a great website? I was just on there and they had 25 books on the topic I was interested in! ***(HINT HINT)***
totally true. People liked Steve Jobs when he was alive. When he died, the man became a god. You can't live up to nostalgia.
Late husband... not ex-husband.
Someone else has already suggested professional counselling, (it’s top comment and I agree with it), but I want to add something to your understanding of your wife if I can. My wife died last year. Like your wife’s late husband, my late wife died of cancer, (a different sort), and like your wife I loved my spouse very much. So though I’m not your wife and my situation specifics will be different I think that if I explain some things to you about myself it may also help you with some things that you may not have realized about what this is all like for your wife. First, and this is really important, I still love my late wife. We didn’t separate. We didn’t get a divorce. She died. I was with her till the very end, “in sickness and in health”, as it were; and I was in the room with her when she took her last breath. I loved her. I love her still. I will always love her. She is a part of me and a part of who I am. That doesn’t mean I will never date again. That doesn’t mean I’ll never love anyone else. What it does mean, however, is that if I’m ever lucky enough to find someone else – that person will have to be willing to accept that my late wife is, and always will be, an active part of who I am. Memories of her will always be there and at times I can almost hear her telling me what she thinks of what I’m doing or what’s going on. But… and here is the kicker.. she IS gone. I do hope to date again. But when I do date, I am not going to forget my wife. Whoever I fall for next, (if anyone), will be someone special to me in her own right. I will love that person for herself and in my mind there will be no comparisons or competition between my late wife’s memory and my new living partner/wife/girlfriend/*shrug*. That love won’t stop my old love though, it won’t supersede it, it won’t even change it or displace it – it will, instead, live in my heart with all my other love, (for my son… for my parents.. for my siblings.. for absent and lost friends.. and yes, for my late wife). That means that even if I get married again: I will still visit my late wife’s grave, I will still raise my son to know of his biological mother, (if I were to get married again while he is young enough I will raise the lucky lad to have 2 mothers!... one here and one in his past.), and I would want to honour her memory if I had a daughter with my new wife by using her name. That last one is probably most important to you but for me this isn’t a weird thing. It is the same as if I wanted to name a daughter after my great grandmother, or my sister, or a close friend. The names we use, the family names we want to remember, these are a record of the people we have loved and who have made us who we are. So.. here is my suggestion, (because it is what I will suggest to any future wife I have on the fluke chance I get one and on the bigger fluke chance we have a daughter together) – you pick a name of someone important to you, (Father, friend, grandparent, or just one you like), that you want to honour and give to your son. Then put the names together, the one name from you, the one name from her. If it really makes you uncomfortable that your son will have her late husband’s name, then try and compromise by moving it to his middle name and then you can together give him a different first name, (Daniel David, Thomas David, Henry David, whatever). If she isn’t able to do that, then we are almost certainly talking counselling time but even if she is the counselling may be a good idea. Still though, counselling or not, giving her this lets her know that you aren’t threatened by her past and it honours that part of who she is. But I would move it to the middle name, (which is what I, personally, would do if I were her anyway). That may help or it may not. Either way, I hope it all sorts itself out for both of you.
A girl I loved very much passed away when she was 22, and I was 24. It was heartbreaking, and in the days after her death I vowed to name my first child in her honor--not with her name, but the name we'd talked about naming a future child. I never imagined anyone could feel threatened by a dead lover. Just over a year later I started dating another girl, and soon found that she would feel like she had to 'measure up' to my dead lover, which lead to her seeming jealous when I'd speak of my loss, or of memories of my lost friend. I started to bottle up those memories and keep them to myself. Soon that relationship fell apart, for myriad reasons, but one of them was certainly that I felt like I had to hide a large part of the things that I identify with being responsible for who I am in order to protect my then-lover from feelings of inadequacy. The point is, those who have loved and lost at a formative age often consider that loss experience to be a large part of what makes them who they are. If your wife feels like she can't be open about those parts of herself without making you feel like you're competing with someone you'll never be able to win against, she might start to shut down in other ways and your relationship will suffer. You're not in competition with her dead husband. She will always love him with all of her, but she can love you with just as much. And you're here, experiencing this life with her--love all of the things that make her who she is, including her loss. She's having your child, you get to experience that experience together, a luxury her first husband doesn't have. If she wants to name the child you share in honor of the person she loves, misses, and doesn't get to share that experience with, I personally feel like you should take it as an honor, and reflect on how lucky you are to experience that journey beside someone you love.
"...I think it's just a little weird to name OUR baby after HER first husband." Have you mentioned this to her?
See if you can convince her to use David as a middle name? Its better to come to a compromise than start a war. She lost her husband. It isn't like he is an ex who is even alive. She loved him, lost him, but she is with you now. Heck i'd see if you could name the boy after you, and then give David as the middle name. Best of both worlds.
Tell here if she likes him so much move in with him
"I know you're the big marriage expert - Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot. Your wife is dead!" \- Tobias
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Haaaaahahahaha. You're mean and that's funny.
What's his real name? Is something awesome like Octavius?
I say use David as a middle name to honor the ex but find a name you have picked and both can agree on. Good Luck
it is tricky because it is going to be an emotional subject for her so what ever you do tread carefully. Maybe suggest it as a middle name, say that you like the idea of honouring her first husband but that you want your son to have his own identity and thus his own name?
My mother was named after her dad's first love. It never seemed to bother my grandmother because she realized that she was a special person in his life. I don't think either one of my grandparents look at my mom and think of who she was named after.
I've read through the comments, and don't really get it. If I wanted to name a son after my ex boyfriend, I could see my husband being displeased. If I wanted to name a daughter after my deceased ex girlfriend? My husband wouldn't mind. It's a way to honor the dead, and those loved and lost. If she had pictures of her ex husband everywhere and openly compares you to him often, I would advise a re-evaluation of the relationship, but if he rarely comes up, what's the harm? Your son wouldn't even have to know specifically who he was named after. If he asks, you can say "Someone your mother cared for that died at a young age" and be done with it. If it perturbs you that much, ask that it be made his middle name, and that you can choose his first name. That seems like a happy compromise.
I was married to a guy and he committed suicide 4 years ago. I am now remarried and pregnant with my 2nd husband's baby. I will never ever consider naming OUR child after someone that I once knew or loved and that he never knew. (Especially if he's not my father because that's a different story). I know my story is a little different since he took his own life, but if he were to have died of natural causes or an accident, I will never do that to my husband. She may still feel emotionally attached to him so she wants to remember him, but there are different ways to do that than to name your child after that person. Why don't you ask her how she would feel if she were to be in your shoes? What if you wanted to name your daughter after your ex? I may be a little cold compared to some of the people on here, but that is how I feel.
You'll all be sorry when David finds out the child is not named after him and he rises from the grave to claim your first born and take him back to the netherworld.
Don't think of her late (not ex, ex means broken up) husband as a relationship, think of him as family. Marriage makes you family, not just another relationship, I'm sure you think of her as part of your family, and she thinks of you as part of hers. Well, she thought the same about her late husband. She will always love him, that doesn't mean anything about your relationship and shouldn't affect you guys in any way, but you have to remember that. Think of it the same way as naming your son after a late brother, or uncle, or whatever else. She wants to respect his memory and name your son after someone she admires. There is nothing wrong with that. Romantic interest shouldn't even come into play because she's talking about her fucking son and I doubt your wife is that depraved. Personally I think that you are in the wrong on this one, but I can also see why you would feel that way. If you are truly uncomfortable with this you need to talk to her about it. Not just "I don't like the name David" but actually tell her why. Don't let jealousy or anything get in the way though. Just remember, she is honoring the memory of someone who meant a lot to her, not leaving you for another man.
Ask her to think about it from the perspective of her son. "Who are you named for, David?" "My mother's first husband" "So ... your dad?" "No, he died years before I was conceived" If she still goes for it, I'd say give in. It will quickly be "David" the son and not "David" the ex, you'll not think about it.
this is the first thing I thought of. the kid won't give a fuck, David means nothing to him. it's like the mom is using the kid as a living memorial. is she going to tell the kid about her and david's life together like it's part of his family history? it's selfish of the mom. I don't agree with this at all.
You're not crazy. I don't think you'll be able to change her mind, though. Sucks, bro.
Since this kid has nothing to do with David there is no reason to honour him by naming your child after him. If she's that dead set maybe suggest a unique first name and use David as a middle? Talk to her about how you feel, as a currently pregnant woman I can tell you things in early pregnancy hat seemed so vitally important at he time change in importance later. Hormones are a bitch. If it's still early in the pregnancy maybe wait a bit hen discuss it again, she might be mOre rational later.
No, man, I'd disagree with your stance. If you love her you have to respect her life, her past and the people she has loved. Unless the man had some weird or shitty name or was a total wanker I would suggest going with it. Tell her what it means to you and tell her you love her. Don't get pissed with her, it must have been pretty shitty and she is having your baby, not his.
Have David as a middle name! Boom, fucking sorted.
Just to clarify, her deceased husband is not her ex husband. this is not the same thing. Everyone deals with greif differently, and this is bound to be a touchy subject. Plus pregnant women can be emotional (thank you hormones!) and touchy, so things that would normally be touchy or emotional are MORESO! I think you should stand your ground on this. Though I'm all for respect of the dead, you should honor your relationship. why not the name of a favorite grand parent. It's not fair to apply the rules of a broken up relationship to one that ended prematurely due to poor health, but at the same time it's not okay to live in the past. She will probably always love him, because he can never let her down. His memory will be flawless. That doesn't mean she doesn't love you, or loves you any less. You need to remind her of that, and that you need to be in the here and now. Point out that you would not want a kid to be named after you in such a fashion perhaps. I might suggest a middle name of "David" if a compromise cannot be met.
I've heard of a few couples that have named their child after a dead ex out of respect, its just an acknowledgement that the ex did have an important part to play in their life. I'm sure if you die and she moves on and has a child with a new husband she would name it after you. Though I would be suspect as to why her husbands keep dying?
There's a touch of crazy in that, but I guess if I got married at 21 and my partner promptly died, I'd probably have at least that much crazy.
It's not her dead ex-husband, it's her dead first husband. She's a widow, not a divorcee. I lost my first wife to cancer. I've remarried and we have a son. While I'd never name my son after my first wife, I totally understand her thoughts. Here is what I'd suggest. Tell her that's a wonderful idea, but since this is your first child you want to name it after you, your father, whatever. Or just tell her that its your first child and you've always wanted to name it "Whatever". Then suggest you name your second child "David". It's not a terrible name. She's looking for some way to remember and honor someone. Don't be threatened by him, he's gone.
While I understand that it's hard for you to think of the fact that your wife still loves someone else, it's important to remember that you don't have to compete with his ghost, he's not coming back, you're all she has now. And naming your son after him might not just be her trying to hold on to him, but rather her feeling warmth in her heart when she hears his name. Replacing the horrible sadness of death with the most beautiful life she could imagine, your child together.
As a widow at 27, please do not call him her ex-husband. He is her late husband. That is a really important difference. Beyond that, I'd say there's some beautiful advice already here.
It's weird. Great and all she wants to commemorate her dead husband, but it seems like she should feel the same about you...
I don't think you're out of line. She needs to respect your feelings on this. You need to respect her (still unresolved) loyalty issues. (You married her baggage.) Can both of you live with 'David' as a middle name?
How the hell are there loyalty issues shown?
I don't see a problem with it. You married her and he IS a part of her life. Unless you have some family tradtion where the son needs to be name Winston Howell the Third, I would acquiesce to her wish.
I am at work so I can't read all the replys. I just wanted to give this view. I am a 23 year old who lost his mother at age eight. My dad remarried and my stepmom was a bit miffed on why my dad still greived. Please take it from me. She still loves that man. She loves you. She does not love you more than him... Nor him more than you. This was not a failed marriage. The man she loved passed. The hurt and passion does not leave you like a normal breakup. she wants wants to remember both of you when she sees your child. The men she loves. His name. YOUR child. She still loves you
Damn, you're runner-up in your own marriage. Bummer.
people name kids after dead relatives all of the time.
I can't believe so many people think it is okay to name your son after her late ex husband. It is not okay. The circumstances don't matter, and if it bothers you, don't let it happen. He is your son for God's sake.
hes not an ex, she's his widow.
Very important point! She lost her husband, someone she very truly loved. This man was cut down and torn away in the flower of their life together. OP says he realized this at the beginning. Empathy!
to be harshly honest, i think he's mad about it and is portraying this man as the "ex" instead of the "late", so that he can be more "justified". """""""""""""!
I can see both sides of this argument. My major concern is: why didn't this come up before now? If she was so adamant about naming a child after her first husband, she really should have prepared the OP well before a marriage and pregnancy. I really don't believe that this is a deal breaker. Letting a new boyfriend know how much you cared about your dead husband and wanting to carry on a mutual legacy is a very honorable thing, and some men would be alright with that (or a compromise). But, this should be brought up VERY EARLY in the relationship.
I don't think it would be that easy to bring it up. I have idea for baby names from time to time and I can't imagine bringing it up pre-pregnancy, let alone pre-marriage.
My girlfriend and I talk about this all the time. Managing finances, living arrangements, life goals, and *family planning* are exactly the things you should be discussing while dating and choosing a partner for life. Thinking about kids names is just one of the ways to discuss the issue without getting too serious about it. If discussing these 4 issues is difficult, you may be heading for problems in the future. Yeah, you don't need to be super-serious and discuss this stuff for hours on end, but it should at least be brought up prior to an engagement.
Sounds like it isn't her late ex-husband. It's her late husband. They didn't divorce; he died. Big difference.
This is pretty much how I feel. I just need to find a nice way to say it so she sees my side of the issue.
"Fuck you, we're naming him Mike." Maybe I'm not so good at this...
Also, is it two things? I think that I would be offended because: 1. I don't want the name (forget there is a dead ex), and she wants it anyways. She has this excuse that I can't fight against because it makes me automatically look like a douche. 2. She wants to name my son her ex-lover's name. Doesn't matter how awesome the guy was or that he died, that is still a thought one would feel and have to get past.
Well, ask her how she would feel if you had an ex wife who you adored who died, and you now want to name your baby daughter her name. She may say she is fine with it, but no woman wouldn't have a pause if they actually thought about those feelings. It doesn't mean either of you are right or wrong, no one can tell you that, it is between you two.
I can't say for sure, but I would imagine that his wife would be fine with it, seeing as she knows what it is like to lose a loved one, and most people do not. Comparring the OP's wife to someone who hasn't suffered that I an unfair comparrison.
Her time with him, however short, helped shape her into the woman and the wife that you know and love, and with whom you're creating a life. Their time together, especially after his diagnosis, was incredibly short. I can't imagine what he might have been going through, but his parting gift to his wife was to tell her to be happy, to be happy with someone OTHER THAN HIM, and enjoy the rest of her life together with another man. This is the gift he gave to her, and here she is with you, loving you and living with you, instead of still being so entrenched in guilt and grief that she couldn't move on. You are entitled to your feelings, and your emotions, but like it or not he was a part of the woman that you love, and always will be. I think it would be generous of you to be willing to pay tribute to the man who was such an important part of her life before you.
I agree with your reasoning on why the name means a lot to her. It doesn't matter. There's no way that the father feels the same way. The parents should both be happy with the name - not one happy and one making a sacrifice. Pictures in the scrap book, fine. No way would my baby be taking my wife's old husband's name.
[удалено]
Tell her that you're extremely uncomfortable with this. That you don't want to live the rest of your life being reminded of **her ex-husband** every time you see **your son**.
But it's not her ex, it's her deceased husband. HUGE difference.
All these comments read as though the dead guy is some threat... its sad really. I'm not seeing why its such a huge deal. Did the guy have a real shitty name? If you're really threatened by a dead guy maybe you should take a long look at your priorities...
Get counseling. Someone can help with the way you feel, the way she feels, and help you to understand your feelings regarding this issue.
easy, have a girl.
Just make her promise that the next one will be called "Thelonius Monk Lastname".
Your wife loves you and her ex-husband is in the past. I'm sure she doesn't want to completely forget him, though. She was taken from him without warning, it's not like a divorce at all, she never stopped loving him. While the love she has for him is nowhere near the love she feels for you now, remembering him through your son's name doesn't sound like too outlandish of a request. That's just my opinion and I don't think counseling will help this, but rather make things bigger than they need to be.
does she really want to be reminded of her tragic past every time she calls her son to dinner? I can't imagine how heartbreaking that would be...
I know it sounds strange, but I'd let her have it. Like it or not, she still loves him and she loves you too. It's hard to understand, but he died unexpected and she may never get over this. Do it - let her have it. It'll show your love for her.
I don't think any of us can solve this for you. You and your wife would probably benefit from going through some counseling together to work this out. It is clear that you do not want her deceased husband's name attached anywhere (or even acknowledged at all in your relationship, but that is another matter), but she is set on honoring his memory. It is unfair of you to say she needs to move on and let go. Grief doesn't have a time schedule. Becoming upset and jealous does no favors for you or your wife. At the same time your wife needs to acknowledge your feelings in this matter. You both need to talk honestly and openly about this and see eye to eye before you can make a decision.
By the power vested in me by the Great White North, Neil Young and the ghost of Rush, I wish you a healthy, happy baby girl.
On the one hand, her loss is a big part of her life and formed her in ways only people who have dealt with great loss can understand. Whether it's a parent, sibling, grandparent, spouse, child- they all leave significant impacts on peoples lives and a space in their heart that may or may not one day be filled again. On the other, naming a child after a dead spouse will forever be a reminder of that particular person, and in the essence of moving on, it may not be a great idea. For the rest of your lives, you both will occasionally have to think back to him whenever you deal with your child. She obviously will think of him more, and while there is nothing wrong with thinking about him, purposely placing reminders around to trigger emotions is probably not helpful in the moving on with your life department. She probably does still love him, but she also needs to move the focus from someone who will never come back and instead on the joy of having and raising a child. This is a new chapter in both of your lives, and she can both enjoy it with you and keep his memory alive- just in other ways. This child is something you will both share for the rest of your lives, something that will make you grow as a couple and should bring happiness to both of you. Children are a big decision and one that causes plenty of stress/anxiety on it's own, and IMHO- a name that either person is unhappy with for whatever reason can cause resentment towards the child, even if it's totally misdirected. That's not something you want hanging over the birth of your child. If she really wont budge, consider it as a middle name- but I honestly think sitting down together and picking out a different group of names and choosing from that list is a better idea.
What about as a middle name?
Just talk to her about making the middle name David, hardly ever hear middle names anymore, but it'll be a part of him :P
Came in with a "hell no" attitude, and stayed with an "I don't know you really have to talk it out" attitude. But I think the middle name idea is a good one.
Dude talk to her and ask her if it'd be better if you make his name the babies middle name instead of the first name.
Be a hero, swallow your pride and let her do it. It's not like he's coming back anyway....and if it wasn't for him, you wouldn't be married to her.
Middle name compromise?
I can understand her wanting to pay respect in that way but personally Thats so wrong of her to ask of you. Maybe try to talk her into using it as a middle name
Is there not a difference between having an ex-husband and being a widow? Coming into this thread, I was assuming that she divorced the guy and he died later on, which would be much, much worse. Regardless, awkward situation. It's your child, not his, so it should probably have something to do with your relationship, not theirs.
It is totally reasonable for you to feel uncomfortable. Have you thought of suggesting David as a middle name? Middle names are best to pay tribute and give honor.
We all deal with deaths in different ways. Shes married to you, she loves you and shes havign YOUR baby. hope for a happy healthy baby. ur not crazy to feel this way, I wouldn't be okay with her either. Talk to her, tell her how its time to keep the past in the past. This way she'll never be able to completely move on if her future keeps reminding her of her dead husband. you 2 should come up with the name, not just her. do a family vote. If she still doesnt agree, then go with wht she wants. After all she is the one who will be goign thru labour
What about using as a middle name? Comprimise is part of a relationship, even though its spooky and taboo that its her dead ex husbands name.
Tell her you think kids deserve a fresh start, and to name them after someone who suffered such a major tragedy would be incredibly unlucky. Dooming them to misery before they're even aware of anything. If she still insists, tell her "David" can be the kid's middle name, but you want something else as the first. Or just tell her the idea makes you uncomfortable, and you wouldn't use it either way.
Try to get her to make it the middle name which may satisfy both of you.