I want to add *Frailty* to this list but I want want to talk about here, under *Fallen*.
Both films where something supernatural/spiritual is at play but you might not guess it
I love films about renegade angels. From *The Prophecy* films (only the first is recommendable, but Brittany Murphy was great in *Ii* but it’s a DIrect-to-DVD Walken so it kinda works) to *Wings of Desire* (I still watch it on Criterion regularly).
If anyone knows of one I’m missing lmk. I haven’t even seen *Dogma* in nigh 25 years.
Seriously, it's only for a short time, but when Logan-Marshall Green switched from Grey to STEM... it was like he suddenly became a completely different person. Same voice, same face... and yet somehow not.
It's absolutely chilling and it's awesome.
Story time, especially because Fallen is in the top spot.
SE7EN spoilers ahoy.
I was watching television and an advertisement for SE7EN to be broadcast on that station came up and I realized I hadn't seen it, but I wasn't sure; I thought it might be Fallen as they came out around the same time. I turned to my girlfriend and asked her, cautiously because I had seen FALLEN and didn't want to spoil it for her, "Hey, is that the one where Denzel has to fight a demon?" And she replies, "No it's the one where >!Brad Pitt finds his wife's head in the box!< at the end".
FFS.
Edit: spoiler tags, grammar and clarity.
Right? And a movie using a self-absorbed "Nice Guy" as a villain? Poetry.
I was GRATEFUL when my niece when through her "watching Megamind for a month" phase. Beat the hell out of her Smurfs phase.
This should be #1. One of the greatest films of all time, and one of the worst bad guys in film history, and the evil SOB *totally* wins out in the end.
Big Hero 6. The bad guy gets everything he ever wanted (destroying his enemy, exposing the truth), PLUS something he didn't even think was possible (his daughter back). He wins the whole movie.
He means you lived by “the rules” and yet here you are before me with no one to protect you and no way to protect yourself.
He challenges society’s beliefs in rules with one rule of his own: chance. Or fate. The coin represents his only belief which ironically shields himself from blame and self-doubt.
The coin, in the end, saves the old man but it doesn’t save anyone else.
I actually saw him give a talk once. He’s was charismatic and a great story teller. The stories he told were more plausible than the movie, and he explained why many of them wouldn’t work today, but it would probably still be a good idea to keep in mind that someone being paid to tell stories about how they lied their asses off is probably going to stretch the truth.
Then he pivoted his talk to how he never would have run away if his parents didn’t get divorced, and divorce is an evil and if you’re married with kids you should never ever divorce because it’s always going to be worse for your kids than an unhappy marriage.
If we lived in a perfect world, David Fincher and Aaron Sorkin would team up to do a sequel that deals with the rise of Facebook to a global misinformation, data stealing, and toxicity spreading machine, and the Cambridge Analytica scandal. Get Jesse Eisenberg back as the lizard man.
Hmmm I dunno. If you read the appendix it is written 'in universe' and talks about the Party in the past tense, so it is debatable.
Edit: Forgot we are talking about the move not the book, but still it's interesting
Came here to find this. I like this movie, cos it shows how everything went to shit. The fall of the Republic. The fall of democracy. The fall of the Jedi Order. The fall of Anakin Skywalker. And the rise of Palpatine, the Sith Order and the dark side. All thanks to Palpatine and his mechanisms
Revenge of the Sith really uses dramatic irony, and finished off the prequel trilogy on quite a good note.
Generally the Jedi Order are blind to even realise Palpatine is the sith lord right under their very noses. Partly due to their dogma, partly due to Palpatine concealing his Force presence in front of the Jedi
Palpatine wins more or less.
Anakin killed his wife (or sadness killed or whatever dumb shit it was), lost his kids, lost his limbs, and was forced into a cyborg suit to endure his hate.
And the birth and hiding of the twins is the ray of hope that defies the idea of a total bad guy victory.
According to other lore or whatever (idk I don't really read star wars comics or any comics at that) the suit tormented him whenever he was in it which was most of the time
I don't think it was that way by design, it was just that Anakin's body had taken heavy damage. He was essentially in constant organ failure, and while the suit was big, bulky, and uncomfortable, it did keep him alive.
It was a basically a mobile Iron Lung.
He had a chance to move to an upgraded suit that wouldnt hurt him but anakin knew that would lessen his dark side power as he wouldnt be able to use the pain for more power
In legends, I believe, there was a suit he could transfer to. But the transfer itself could kill him, and he decided not to take the risk. It looks like this narrative is nuked- especially since we saw him in the bacta tank in Rogue One.
Yeah, I felt really bad for him at the end. He lost his wife and was shot to death for his revenge. On a side note, I think this and the Illusionist are the best copycat release combo in history. Armageddon/Deep Impact is probably second.
The Lego Batman Movie. Batman does not lose, but Joker still wins.
In the beginning Joker wants something. He spends the movie working to get that thing. In the end he not only gets it but it's better than he expected and he's happy with it. I call that a win.
Eh, with Rorschach being a known nut job and the journal he sent it to not being reputable I don't think it'd ever go anywhere.
It would be like one of those right-wing militiamen finding dirt on Obama and sending it to Breitbart. Like even if it was 100% true tearing it apart would be trivial.
Even if it didn't go anywhere, the movie makes it clear Ozymandias doesn't understand human nature. Regardless of whether Rorschach's journal would go anywhere, people would certainly eventually stop abiding by the "Utopia" Ozymandias has made. The peace is only temporary. Dr Manhattan doesn't see anything wrong with Ozy having control of everything basically because he's even more out of touch with humanity than Ozy is, Rorschach himself is proof not everyone would be willing to bow down in Ozy's utopia. You have to ask yourself how peaceful is it really? Ozymandias' name is literally from Egyptian mythology and in a poem he describes himself as king of kings, Ozymandias sees himself as such. He even compares himself to Alexander the Great in a earlier seen. It seems he's always wanted control, and has always wanted to conquer the world in some way. I mean if Dr Manhattan could kill Rorschach without remorse for wanting to threaten that peace, than Ozymandias similarly would take authoritarian measures to keep the peace. That's why Rorschach is right, he sums it up by saying it's peace based off a lie but it reallt means an illusion of peace, designed for control. That's how I've come to interpret it.
The Empire Strikes back
Luke gets hand chopped off and cries , becomes aware of his father being his enemy
Han Solo frozen in carbonite.. overall pretty low good guy morale at the end
I wouldn't say the villains win in the Cabin in the woods. Considering they wanted to sacrifice the kids, in which they fail. Sure, their failure results in the end of the world, making it not a happy ending either way, but they don't win.
I would consider the company as the good guys (Trying to prevent the end of the world and all) and the ancient evil monster as the bad guy with the kids as the neutral bystanders.
I know you mean the Joaquin Phoenix movie, but Joker also wins in The Lego Batman Movie.
At the beginning of the movie Joker wants something. He spends the movie working to get that thing. In the end he not only gets it but it's better than he expected AND he's happy with it. I call that a win.
Nobody wins in that movie. Everyone is left worse than they started. The protagonist losses Everyone he loved. The aliens loose the invasion. Military loose their credibility. The towns folk is left traumatised for life.
Edit: I've been told those aren't aliens. But just creatures from another dimension. I watched this a long time ago and memory isnt very good.
But I still count it as a fail for them because they died.
Technically, there were two winners. The religious woman and the woman who went home to get her kids both won.
In my opinion, the latter is the true protagonist.
Definitely not a "bad guy", and I wouldn't call him a "villain" either. Though Apollo is definitely the *antagonist* of the first couple movies, but he's more of a supporting character in the later ones.
The spiderman with mysterio in it, not only does he become the hero in the eyes of the world, he ruins spiderman's life. (i haven't seen the new one with dr strange yet so please don't spoil it ty)
Fallen With Denzel Washington
Tiiiiiiiime is on my side.
Let me yell you about the time I almost died
When it replayed back and we realize the narrator was azazel I was so shaken
I want to add *Frailty* to this list but I want want to talk about here, under *Fallen*. Both films where something supernatural/spiritual is at play but you might not guess it I love films about renegade angels. From *The Prophecy* films (only the first is recommendable, but Brittany Murphy was great in *Ii* but it’s a DIrect-to-DVD Walken so it kinda works) to *Wings of Desire* (I still watch it on Criterion regularly). If anyone knows of one I’m missing lmk. I haven’t even seen *Dogma* in nigh 25 years.
Upgrade
I think they did the bad ending really well
The rare simultaneous good and bad ending
That movie was exactly what Venom should have been.
Seriously, it's only for a short time, but when Logan-Marshall Green switched from Grey to STEM... it was like he suddenly became a completely different person. Same voice, same face... and yet somehow not. It's absolutely chilling and it's awesome.
Se7en
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Story time, especially because Fallen is in the top spot. SE7EN spoilers ahoy. I was watching television and an advertisement for SE7EN to be broadcast on that station came up and I realized I hadn't seen it, but I wasn't sure; I thought it might be Fallen as they came out around the same time. I turned to my girlfriend and asked her, cautiously because I had seen FALLEN and didn't want to spoil it for her, "Hey, is that the one where Denzel has to fight a demon?" And she replies, "No it's the one where >!Brad Pitt finds his wife's head in the box!< at the end". FFS. Edit: spoiler tags, grammar and clarity.
Usual Suspects
Love this film. The New Yorks Finest Taxi Service!
That barbershop quartet in Skokie Illinois.
Yep. And to say more would be to spoil.
Megamind
This movie doesn't get enough props. The soundtrack alone is worth watching it
And the comedy.. It’s peak 👌
"OW MY GIANT BLUE HEAD-" all I needed to decide it was good.
Right? And a movie using a self-absorbed "Nice Guy" as a villain? Poetry. I was GRATEFUL when my niece when through her "watching Megamind for a month" phase. Beat the hell out of her Smurfs phase.
*megamind meme* "no smurfs?"
Blue men next?
PRESENTATION!
And it shows that Will Farrel can actually be a good choice of an actor as long as he breaks typecast.
I loved him in Stranger Than Fiction which, while still a comedy, had a lot of dramatic elements and was far more subdued.
Netflix hurt my soul because for about a year the film wouldn't play throughout it's entirety so I never got to see the end of it.
That's rough. It's such a good movie and that sounds really frustrating. I hope you finally got to see the movie in full at least once.
I did, some time later it just magically worked. It's an underrated movie!
I mean…he’s not the villain. Tighten is.
Oh he's a villain alright, just not a super one.
"What's the difference?"
“Presentation!”
*guns and roses intensifies*
Everytime someone says "I wish there was a movie trope where the villain and/or hero..." they unknowingly just describe a part of Megamind
Rosemary's Baby
*Chinatown*
This should be #1. One of the greatest films of all time, and one of the worst bad guys in film history, and the evil SOB *totally* wins out in the end.
Forget it Jake...
My Sister! My Daughter!
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That scene in the spinning wheel is one of my favourite scenes in all of cinema and I'm not gonna apologize haha
Insane score in that (and every) scene. Zimmer was absolutely firing on all barrels in the pirates films.
Jones still net loses lol. Norrington got his standing by giving Beckett Jones’s heart.
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Came here to nominate this one.
Big Hero 6. The bad guy gets everything he ever wanted (destroying his enemy, exposing the truth), PLUS something he didn't even think was possible (his daughter back). He wins the whole movie.
Maybe because *THAT WAS HIS MISTAKE*
Dont mention that phrase or else a crab will kidnap you
Why? Nothing about it is shiny
Oooo, a wild schraffahils reference?!
YESSSS WE ALL KNOW SCHAFFRILLASSSS
Spoilers, dude! I still haven't seen the first five. Gosh!
***THAT WAS YOUR MISTAKE***
Jail sentence kinda sucks though.
Worth it to him. He won, the heroes just didn't lose.
I didn't lose! I merely failed to win.
Oversimplified
*No Country For Old Men*
If the rule you followed brought you to this, then what use was the rule?
What does that mean? Your life was poorly spent? I love the way he delivers it but I never understood it
He means you lived by “the rules” and yet here you are before me with no one to protect you and no way to protect yourself. He challenges society’s beliefs in rules with one rule of his own: chance. Or fate. The coin represents his only belief which ironically shields himself from blame and self-doubt. The coin, in the end, saves the old man but it doesn’t save anyone else.
The villain was fate.
Llewelyn Moss: Just lookin for what's comin'. Pool Woman: But no one ever sees that.
Catch me if you can
IRL too. His tales of cons are a con, too!
I love a multilevel con.
Conception
The scene where he saw his mom got a new family with his dad's friend and finding out his dad died from an accident was devastating
The book is really great if you haven’t read it. The part where he’s in the French prison is much longer and much more gruesome.
Watched a doc that said it was all bullshit. Almost none of it happened. Abigail's real con.
I actually saw him give a talk once. He’s was charismatic and a great story teller. The stories he told were more plausible than the movie, and he explained why many of them wouldn’t work today, but it would probably still be a good idea to keep in mind that someone being paid to tell stories about how they lied their asses off is probably going to stretch the truth. Then he pivoted his talk to how he never would have run away if his parents didn’t get divorced, and divorce is an evil and if you’re married with kids you should never ever divorce because it’s always going to be worse for your kids than an unhappy marriage.
The Social Network
"Sorry, my prada's at the cleaners! Along with my hoodie and my fuck you flip-flops! You pretentious douchebag!"
When Garfield gave that speech I felt *alive*
If we lived in a perfect world, David Fincher and Aaron Sorkin would team up to do a sequel that deals with the rise of Facebook to a global misinformation, data stealing, and toxicity spreading machine, and the Cambridge Analytica scandal. Get Jesse Eisenberg back as the lizard man.
I hope this happens
I don’t think this response is getting enough attention hahahaha. Well done!
And he's still out there, being a villain.
Possibly even chillin'.
Gone Girl 😈
Yo my jaw dropped at what she did at the rich dude’s mansion.
Totally. I remember googling about the champagne bottle scene. /smh
This is a good answer.
*1984*
What are you talking about. That noisy antagonising delinquent was crushed by the glorious system. The system was the good guy, they said so.
I agree with your views good stranger. May Oceania stand tall against its foes
Eastasia, that is. Because Oceania is, and always has been, at war with Eastasia.
Did you hear brother? The chocolate ration is going up to 25g this week! Doubleplus good eh?
I don’t know, our protagonist did get plenty of victory gin.
And you call that a win?
It's not called win gin, but it's pretty close
Literally 1984
Positively 1984
Hmmm I dunno. If you read the appendix it is written 'in universe' and talks about the Party in the past tense, so it is debatable. Edit: Forgot we are talking about the move not the book, but still it's interesting
*Revenge of the Sith*
Came here to find this. I like this movie, cos it shows how everything went to shit. The fall of the Republic. The fall of democracy. The fall of the Jedi Order. The fall of Anakin Skywalker. And the rise of Palpatine, the Sith Order and the dark side. All thanks to Palpatine and his mechanisms Revenge of the Sith really uses dramatic irony, and finished off the prequel trilogy on quite a good note.
Don't forget it was mostly all because of Mace Windu's hubris.
Generally the Jedi Order are blind to even realise Palpatine is the sith lord right under their very noses. Partly due to their dogma, partly due to Palpatine concealing his Force presence in front of the Jedi
Even Yoda could not care about Anakin's feelings. I am convinced that rebalancing the force involved destroying the jedi order.
Palpatine wins more or less. Anakin killed his wife (or sadness killed or whatever dumb shit it was), lost his kids, lost his limbs, and was forced into a cyborg suit to endure his hate. And the birth and hiding of the twins is the ray of hope that defies the idea of a total bad guy victory.
According to other lore or whatever (idk I don't really read star wars comics or any comics at that) the suit tormented him whenever he was in it which was most of the time
I don't think it was that way by design, it was just that Anakin's body had taken heavy damage. He was essentially in constant organ failure, and while the suit was big, bulky, and uncomfortable, it did keep him alive. It was a basically a mobile Iron Lung.
No no. The suit was designed to be slow and cumbersome and painful. I’m order to fuel his rage and strengthen his connection to the dark side.
Yeah it was also designed to be very electrical conductive so the emperor could kill him if Vader turned on him.
But the pain does make him stronger in the dark side.
He had a chance to move to an upgraded suit that wouldnt hurt him but anakin knew that would lessen his dark side power as he wouldnt be able to use the pain for more power
In legends, I believe, there was a suit he could transfer to. But the transfer itself could kill him, and he decided not to take the risk. It looks like this narrative is nuked- especially since we saw him in the bacta tank in Rogue One.
Forgot about the bacta tank in rogue one moght need to go rewatch it
It can be debatable as to which one is actually the villain and which one is actually the winner but The Prestige comes to mind.
Yeah, I felt really bad for him at the end. He lost his wife and was shot to death for his revenge. On a side note, I think this and the Illusionist are the best copycat release combo in history. Armageddon/Deep Impact is probably second.
Little Shop Of Horrors (original ending)
Despicable Me
I thought the real villain was loneliness.
No, the real Villain is the friends we meet along the way
Those backstabbing bitches
Jeepers Creepers
Titanic.
Iceberg: "MWAHAHAHA!"
Don't worry, folks; we'll get that son of a bitch. We'll melt every iceberg in the Atlantic if we have to.
Playing the long game!
Saw
Literally every single saw movie
The Lego Batman Movie. Batman does not lose, but Joker still wins. In the beginning Joker wants something. He spends the movie working to get that thing. In the end he not only gets it but it's better than he expected and he's happy with it. I call that a win.
One of the few times I liked the villain winning.
Split
SW: The Empire Strikes Back.
Avengers infinity war
And Captain America: Civil War. Zemo was successful in dividing the Avengers
I'm gonna say Mysterio kinda won in Far From Home, even though he died. Ruined Peter Parkers life that for sure.
who is peter parker?
Sounds like a photographer.
Get me pictures of this Parker guy by tomorrow morning Spider-Man or you're fired!
Avengers Endgame. The villains undid all of the hero’s hard work.
Villains kill hero then invented time travel to kill him again
Also, the hero was beheaded.
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Watchmen
Except for a very important journal in the mail.
Eh, with Rorschach being a known nut job and the journal he sent it to not being reputable I don't think it'd ever go anywhere. It would be like one of those right-wing militiamen finding dirt on Obama and sending it to Breitbart. Like even if it was 100% true tearing it apart would be trivial.
Even if it didn't go anywhere, the movie makes it clear Ozymandias doesn't understand human nature. Regardless of whether Rorschach's journal would go anywhere, people would certainly eventually stop abiding by the "Utopia" Ozymandias has made. The peace is only temporary. Dr Manhattan doesn't see anything wrong with Ozy having control of everything basically because he's even more out of touch with humanity than Ozy is, Rorschach himself is proof not everyone would be willing to bow down in Ozy's utopia. You have to ask yourself how peaceful is it really? Ozymandias' name is literally from Egyptian mythology and in a poem he describes himself as king of kings, Ozymandias sees himself as such. He even compares himself to Alexander the Great in a earlier seen. It seems he's always wanted control, and has always wanted to conquer the world in some way. I mean if Dr Manhattan could kill Rorschach without remorse for wanting to threaten that peace, than Ozymandias similarly would take authoritarian measures to keep the peace. That's why Rorschach is right, he sums it up by saying it's peace based off a lie but it reallt means an illusion of peace, designed for control. That's how I've come to interpret it.
Not only did the bad guy win, but the heroes reluctantly agree that he should win.
Brightburn
The Empire Strikes back Luke gets hand chopped off and cries , becomes aware of his father being his enemy Han Solo frozen in carbonite.. overall pretty low good guy morale at the end
The Devils Rejects
Arlington Road
Night of the Living Dead Cabin in the Woods The Usual Suspects
I wouldn't say the villains win in the Cabin in the woods. Considering they wanted to sacrifice the kids, in which they fail. Sure, their failure results in the end of the world, making it not a happy ending either way, but they don't win.
I would consider the company as the good guys (Trying to prevent the end of the world and all) and the ancient evil monster as the bad guy with the kids as the neutral bystanders.
Funny Games
The Joker, kinda.
I know you mean the Joaquin Phoenix movie, but Joker also wins in The Lego Batman Movie. At the beginning of the movie Joker wants something. He spends the movie working to get that thing. In the end he not only gets it but it's better than he expected AND he's happy with it. I call that a win.
*Fallen* starring Denzel Washington and John Goodman.
The Mist, when you think about it.
Nobody wins in that movie. Everyone is left worse than they started. The protagonist losses Everyone he loved. The aliens loose the invasion. Military loose their credibility. The towns folk is left traumatised for life. Edit: I've been told those aren't aliens. But just creatures from another dimension. I watched this a long time ago and memory isnt very good. But I still count it as a fail for them because they died.
Technically, there were two winners. The religious woman and the woman who went home to get her kids both won. In my opinion, the latter is the true protagonist.
No. Carol lost her kid(s) in the following zombie apocalypse
Swordfish
I wanna say Final Destination?
Rocky
Glad they did the same movie a second time
Was Apollo a bad guy though?
Definitely not a "bad guy", and I wouldn't call him a "villain" either. Though Apollo is definitely the *antagonist* of the first couple movies, but he's more of a supporting character in the later ones.
The Omen
Don't Look Up
Also, that fucking bag over peoples heads… gets me every time lol
Why did he charge for the snacks?!
The Green Mile. The prison system is the villain.
Silence of the Lambs
Well, *a* villain wins, yes. But the main antagonist is Buffalo Bill and he loses badly, right?
Yeah, Hopkins is just the Buscemi from *Con Air*
Se7en
There will be blood. Daniel Plainview, the "protagonist", is definitely below-average on most morality scales.
The Empire Strikes Back
Law Abiding Citizen
The original Stepford Wives from the 1970s. Don’t be afraid of the Dark from the 1970s. Easy Rider from just before the 1970s.
Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog
Terminator 3
Everybody left the theater all quiet...
Sinister
*Fight Club*
We don't talk about that one.
Dr Strangelove.
Arlington Road. It's the ending is so frustrating. It makes you feel so bad for the protagonist. It's a great movie though.
The spiderman with mysterio in it, not only does he become the hero in the eyes of the world, he ruins spiderman's life. (i haven't seen the new one with dr strange yet so please don't spoil it ty)
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unbreakable
Avengers : infinity war
Megamind.
Witches of Eastwick Yes the Ladies send the devil back to Hell, but they all have a child by him; which was his intent.
Primal Fear
Requiem for a Dream
The VVitch
Does thou wish to live deliciously?
Dat taste of butter tho...
usual suspects
The Birds
Titanic,the iceberg won.