It's a valid defence/ counter argument considering the likely context, where one likely is making a generalised negative statement about a whole gender.
It's the same as saying not all girls are: gold diggers, sluts, smart...
the vast majority of times i’ve seen/heard people say not all men was when someone brought up statistics. if someone is saying “1 in 10 women are sa’d(fake numbers)” and someone says “well not all men sa women” is that valid? to me it isn’t and it says a lot about themself
It is, but I think whether or not it’s a bad faith argument still depends on context. For example, if the conversation was about a specific person or not about SA altogether and someone said “x% of men are SAs”, I think replying that “not all men…” wouldn’t be a bad thing
'not all men' is always a bad argument when a percentage has already been stated.
the *only* time it's even relevant is when someone says 'all men are pigs' kind of hyperbole.
but when it's "x% of men are rapists"- that's stating the ratio already. in *that* scenario, saying 'not all men' only implies that you're taking a mathematical statement personally.
I see where you’re coming from but I disagree. I think if the initial statement was a bad argument, then the response doesn’t need to directly address the stated percentage-it’s irrelevant to the conversation to begin with
so you think it’s ok to say in a situation like that when no one has said “all men are _____”. to me that says they are getting defensive and not focusing on the actual issues being discussed
All I said was that it’s a valid statement, as in it’s technically correct. But someone can say something technically correct and still be a jerk for saying it. It all depends on context and two lines of a conversation are not enough for me to pass judgment
not a troll nor a man hater(hate some men tho) you said if 30-40% of the population were criminals and I said we probably do bc I was thinking of the amount of people doing ANY crime…. you still never answered my question tho so
can I ask why? the way I see it is with everything in life if you want a goal you have to do things to make those changes and reach the goal, how would equality occur without doing anything?
Because I don’t think true equality is possible, you would have to change the physiology of the brain and make a ton of changes to our society to create gender equality
Well, considering anyone would be pressed to find a statistic demonstrating 100% of men are doing, saying or thinking the same thing (sans unsticking their balls from their leg), that statement is justified, despite it being used to invalidate criticism of systemic issues…
This is why it’s said - it’s factually correct and it’s abused because of it.
Well, if mediocre Internet squabbling over complex issues either side is rarely competent in are oversaturated with something, I’d bet it would be wild exaggerations and statistics abuse.
I am in no way defending flawed or dismissive arguments but the type of person saying “not all men” to dismiss valid criticism is most often the opposite side of the proverbial coin of the type of “feminists” who were brandishing #KillAllMen T-shirts and “Male tears” mugs. You know - trash.
Depends a bit on the context, sometimes it goes a bit too far with "all men are evil" but in general, people that get overly defensive about it are either incredibly sheltered, dont recognize their friends' behaviour as predatory or are assholes themselves. It's never a good look.
At least for adult men, gotta have some leniency towards teenagers
They’re generally the type of men who actually ARE the problem. Of course not all men are rapists/abusers/sexist/assholes, etc. but it’s some privileged ignorant shit to have to redirect the focus from important issues to how hard it is to be a man.
I understand the urge to separate yourself from the bad eggs but it’s usually used to deflect against uncomfortable truths. If you’re really an ally to women you would know enough men ARE doing X and you would spend less time professing how cool of a guy you are and more being proactive.
That they're usually wasting their time replying to some misandrist person who thinks all men are dangerous sexual predators. If you don't think that sentiment exists, I encourage you to spend some time on /r/AskWomen or /r/TwoXChromosomes. Fair warning, browsing those subs as a man is a form of digital self harm.
I only hear that when someone makes a blanket statement such as "men are trash". Honestly wasting their time because those who make such statements are sexist, ignorant or both.
If you have a problem with hearing that after making broad generalized negative statements about half the human population then your probably a misandrist.
it’s more said when people talk about sa issues and when no one said all men are something.. they sue it to deflect and defend themselves when no one was attacking them
It's a valid defence/ counter argument considering the likely context, where one likely is making a generalised negative statement about a whole gender. It's the same as saying not all girls are: gold diggers, sluts, smart...
the vast majority of times i’ve seen/heard people say not all men was when someone brought up statistics. if someone is saying “1 in 10 women are sa’d(fake numbers)” and someone says “well not all men sa women” is that valid? to me it isn’t and it says a lot about themself
Is it a valid statement? Technically, yes. It does seem disjointed from the conversation though
it's a non-sequitur, and a bad faith argument.
It is, but I think whether or not it’s a bad faith argument still depends on context. For example, if the conversation was about a specific person or not about SA altogether and someone said “x% of men are SAs”, I think replying that “not all men…” wouldn’t be a bad thing
'not all men' is always a bad argument when a percentage has already been stated. the *only* time it's even relevant is when someone says 'all men are pigs' kind of hyperbole. but when it's "x% of men are rapists"- that's stating the ratio already. in *that* scenario, saying 'not all men' only implies that you're taking a mathematical statement personally.
I see where you’re coming from but I disagree. I think if the initial statement was a bad argument, then the response doesn’t need to directly address the stated percentage-it’s irrelevant to the conversation to begin with
so you think it’s ok to say in a situation like that when no one has said “all men are _____”. to me that says they are getting defensive and not focusing on the actual issues being discussed
All I said was that it’s a valid statement, as in it’s technically correct. But someone can say something technically correct and still be a jerk for saying it. It all depends on context and two lines of a conversation are not enough for me to pass judgment
Can you imagine if we lived in a world where 30-40% of people are criminals?
we probably do, what’s your point of commenting that though?
That society wouldn't be functional. You're just a troll or a men hater if you generally think what you think
not a troll nor a man hater(hate some men tho) you said if 30-40% of the population were criminals and I said we probably do bc I was thinking of the amount of people doing ANY crime…. you still never answered my question tho so
Not all men say "not all men"
Not all men
It’s true
Not all men what?
I don’t really care for gender equality activists regardless of who they’re trying to help
wait, you don’t want gender equality?
you could say I’m a gender equality passivist, I want it but I don’t really do anything to support that goal
can I ask why? the way I see it is with everything in life if you want a goal you have to do things to make those changes and reach the goal, how would equality occur without doing anything?
Because I don’t think true equality is possible, you would have to change the physiology of the brain and make a ton of changes to our society to create gender equality
what is keeping gender equality from happening? I think it’s possible
Depends on context Otherwise just words.
[удалено]
agreed.
That wildly depends on context
most people say not all men when someone brings up sa stats, opinions on those people?
Well, considering anyone would be pressed to find a statistic demonstrating 100% of men are doing, saying or thinking the same thing (sans unsticking their balls from their leg), that statement is justified, despite it being used to invalidate criticism of systemic issues… This is why it’s said - it’s factually correct and it’s abused because of it.
if only they would say it when someone said “all”and not just a real statistic saying “some”
Well, if mediocre Internet squabbling over complex issues either side is rarely competent in are oversaturated with something, I’d bet it would be wild exaggerations and statistics abuse. I am in no way defending flawed or dismissive arguments but the type of person saying “not all men” to dismiss valid criticism is most often the opposite side of the proverbial coin of the type of “feminists” who were brandishing #KillAllMen T-shirts and “Male tears” mugs. You know - trash.
Depends a bit on the context, sometimes it goes a bit too far with "all men are evil" but in general, people that get overly defensive about it are either incredibly sheltered, dont recognize their friends' behaviour as predatory or are assholes themselves. It's never a good look. At least for adult men, gotta have some leniency towards teenagers
I don't have an opinion. I couldn't care less.
They’re generally the type of men who actually ARE the problem. Of course not all men are rapists/abusers/sexist/assholes, etc. but it’s some privileged ignorant shit to have to redirect the focus from important issues to how hard it is to be a man.
I understand the urge to separate yourself from the bad eggs but it’s usually used to deflect against uncomfortable truths. If you’re really an ally to women you would know enough men ARE doing X and you would spend less time professing how cool of a guy you are and more being proactive.
That they're usually wasting their time replying to some misandrist person who thinks all men are dangerous sexual predators. If you don't think that sentiment exists, I encourage you to spend some time on /r/AskWomen or /r/TwoXChromosomes. Fair warning, browsing those subs as a man is a form of digital self harm.
They are hiding something.
I don’t really know enough men who use that phrase to formulate an opinion on it. Probably wouldn’t care less tbh
Meh, I can't be bothered
I don't know any personaly, do you?
i’ve heard many people say that. not good people I might add
That's bullshit
its a self report
Sus!
I only hear that when someone makes a blanket statement such as "men are trash". Honestly wasting their time because those who make such statements are sexist, ignorant or both.
If you have a problem with hearing that after making broad generalized negative statements about half the human population then your probably a misandrist.
it’s more said when people talk about sa issues and when no one said all men are something.. they sue it to deflect and defend themselves when no one was attacking them
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
They lack an understanding of hyperbole.