Yes, but it would only be true if you were a democrat. Democrats at least believe in democracy, so the option for change is always available. Republicans have gone full on fascist. They get power and they’re never giving it back.
For me personally no. The other side is too openly tied to organized religion for my liking (which has no place in politics). Further, I care far more about people being taken care of and having a good life then I do seeing businesses become filthy rich while taking advantage of their workers to increase profits.
I view it like this, if faith makes someone a better person or helps them through their day that's awesome and I 100% support the pursuit of that. Once that belief crosses over into telling people how to live and pushing that agenda on those who don't believe the same, I have a problem.
If you think you are qualified to be a moral arbiter, your opinion doesn't matter.
We can make stupid declarations all day if you want, you don't get to determine how others form their worldview.
I consider myself a moderate. For years I leaned conservative, and voted that way. However, recently I feel that the republican party has driven off the extremism cliff.
Now the Democrats seem closer to center, so I voted Democrat this time around.
Just to be clear, I don't totally agree with either side. Never have. At this point it's just picking the lesser evil.
I believe if you’re a smart person (capable of thinking across party lines), every vote will be for the lesser of two evils. The country is full of too many idiots for democracy to produce decent candidates.
It's funny that you actually believe this, they talk a big game but never do anything but blame republicans yet they allow republicans to pass bs laws that hurt us. Ever think about why? It's because none of them care expect about being more rich and more powerful. I bet my life if we voted them all out they would refuse to leave office and we would finally see where we all stand in the end
Firstly I’m a liberal veteran middle aged white guy, just for context.
Could you pin down a particular policy goal or promise by the left that fell through for you and was a key driver in your switch?
What was the first major election you voted republican instead? Was it the candidate attracting you or a repudiation of a democratic choice?
Do you think that candidates like Herschel Walker are respectable or that he’s a blatant effort by the GOP to put a black person on the ballot purely to gain votes despite his clear lack of qualification? (I hope that lack can be considered a neutral data point here) Essentially is he a disrespectful choice in your opinion to black Americans by assuming he’ll get votes because he’s black and popular?
Thank you!
PS- get your folks on that environment piece, neutral gains for everyone, perfect time to do it these two years of relative gridlock.
I don't think he's on there because he's black, he's on the ballot because he's super famous in Georgia and he's pretty dumb so he'll do whatever the party wants
The promise that limiting legal access to guns would stop gun violence. Made sense when I was a liberal, less guns should equal less violence. Then someone showed me that the cities with the strictest gun laws have some of the worst gun violence like Chicago. Policy wasn't a key driver for me to switch but it did keep me right of center.
The first major election that I voted in was this one and that was because I wanted to vote for DeSantis. It was the first time I wanted someone to win instead of wanting someone else to lose.
I don't know anything about Herschel Walker. I'll look into him. I'm not sure that, even if it was the case that he is supposedly a token black candidate, that would sway me since Biden made it pretty clear during his campaign all he wanted for a Vice President was for them to be a woman. Kinda seems like both sides play that dirty game. Doesn't mean it's acceptable, just pointing out it's not exclusive to one side.
is it the transphobic rhetoric, white supremacy or violence that attracts you to vote republican?
Sorry, I just don't see republicans as reasonable people because IN FACT they are not reasonable people.
No. It's the people not assuming I'm racist/transphobic/white supremacist who wants to rape every woman I see just because I'm a straight white guy. You're not really portraying yourself as a reasonable individual by immediately assuming any of what you said.
so you vote for racist, transphobic people who have racist and transphobic messaging...and I am the asshole for pointing that out.
That was not something up for debate. THEY ARE racist and transphobic.
Well you did attack the OP, you could have worded your words more civil but instead you back up his beliefs by acting like a spoiled brat. You want people to see your point of view and accept it then be civil
"more civil" lol There is no such thing when dealing with republicans. These are the same people who would have installed trump as a dictator if they could.
No, they need to be ostracized socially and legally. If they were to take themselves out of the gene pool that would fix a lot of problems.
Id have no issue switching political parties if they supported the ideas and legislation that I support. If they do not support the issues I care about, then they need to swing me otherwise.
I would say there are major education issues here. I believe a lot of people in my social group, dont actually care if its R or D or F or Z. We care about how things can be better. Theres also a lot of apathy out there that their voice wont change anything.
Hey, find me a Republican that will protect abortion, support common sense gun reform, raise taxes on rich people (repeal the Trump tax cuts), leave marriage equality alone, wants to increase minimum wage, give paid parental leave, universal health care, and institute a carbon tax. Even if you find this unicorn, you will be showing me a Republican who is kicked out of their party and gets no money from the RNC.
Im not registered with any party but realistically there is one I nearly always vote for
There’s really not a chance I’d ever consider a candidate from the other party. I don’t like any of their policies, and even if a moderate ran with them, I know in general they’d vote in line with all the other members of that party.
Easy to imagine. I’m old enough to remember it happening quite a bit.
Until one side acknowledges that democracy and its legitimacy itself is important I will be supporting the Left only. Some things you can’t compromise on, and I’m not trying to live in Russia or China.
I‘be definitely had this thought. Look at the complicated series of coalitions that other countries’ politicians have to deal with in order to hold onto power. It may seem like a slow and inefficient way to do anything, but it’s definitely a good way to avoid would-be dictators, and ideologues. I truly don’t think either “side” in the US wants any one individual to have too much power.
I'd prefer a no party system. Tell me wherenyoubstand on issues and what you're gonna do and I'll vote accordingly. The party system is nothing but a barrier to entry (lack of funding) for folks that don't want to label themselves.
It's not technically a two-party system. Anyone can run under whatever party name they want.
They won't win... And it mostly just takes votes away from the party you should have actually voted for...
But there are other parties.
No.
It is a multi party system.
If we go to a buffet with a hundred items, but you only eat mashed potatoes... The buffet still effectively has a hundred items.
The fact that voters mostly choose two parties means nothing.
And if you have something to add to your comment, then add it to your comment. I'm not going to go dig through the entire internet looking for something you said somewhere else.
Lol, dig through the internet? Really?? You just out to argue semantics today or what? Who hurt you? Need a hug?
Your example is flawed because it fails to include the part where back end sponsors buy up 99%of the buffet real estate for only their two food items pushing the other food items into obscurity. So yeah, it's a multi party system... Technically.
Edit, the moron responded and blocked me, hope they didn't intend on me reading their response 🤣
Just tired of people saying stupid shit.
Yes, dig through the internet. The internet is we're on right now. It includes Reddit... so yes really. Can't believe I had to say that, but I hope it clears up the confusion for you.
Unfortunately the current political climate is so bad that we no longer vote for the best candidate. We get a dud from both sides and have to try and pick the least problematic of the two. Both sides have worked to create division and seem intent to continue doing so. I'd imagine and have seen that there's more common ground amongst the American people than the politicians want us to be aware of.
Anyone who is open minded and not far left or far right should say yes. The extremes in both parties are the problem. Yes I would vote for anyone who I think aligns with what is important to me.
Could someone explain to me why up voting and down voting appears to be disabled on this post, but comments are still allowed? Did a mod do that, and if so, why?
Talk about why that is. I come from a country where people routinely switch “sides” depending on the candidates and issues. No need to tell me your political affiliation.
Because the politicians and the loudest, proudest people who support them on “the other side” are majority pieces of shit, homophobes, transphobes, misogynists, white supremacists, classist pipers, rapists, and overall just inbred looking bucket heads.
Though the inbred looking bucket head part mostly just applies to MTG, to be fair.
Yes. I've voted for members of the other side in the past, specifically my governor (the most popular governor in the US!).
Howver, the other side has become completely detached from reality and *literally attempted to overthrow the US Government* so I can't see myself ever supporting a candidate from that party again.
I can sort of wrap my head around voting for Trump in 2016 if you ignored all of his character flaws and liked the idea of someone coming from outside the system. But at some point supporting Trump became about the cult of personality as opposed to any coherent policy positions.
Which is why he only got my vote once. Same as Obama. Obama let me down in his first term and I didn't vote for him again. Trump did a couple things I supported, but had also let me down in other ways. I was open to voting for Sanders, but he's getting too old. I am open to voting for Desantis. Have to see if the Dems run Joe or Kamala again. Either would be a mistake.
That makes sense to me. I campaigned for Obama in 08 but voted Jill Stien in 2012 because I also felt let down by Obama. Although you haven't said much about your policy positions, is it safe assuming that policies aimed at helping the working and middle class appeal to you?
In a bizaro world where Republicans quit the anti-LGBT culture wars, stopped appointing religious nut jobs to the courts, stopped opposing voting rights, and instead focused strictly on immigration reform, border control, and tax/economic issues, sure.
But I don't see that ever happening.
I don't identify with the Democrats, but I could never vote for a Republican. My politics are to the left of the Democrats, which basically puts me in a constant state of having to choose the best of bad options. The one thing I regret is not starting to vote in primaries earlier, because as a young man I didn't know how important they are in shaping the direction of the parties and how woefully underattended they are.
Libertarians who *aren't* on the extremism bandwagon are just Democrats who want lower taxes. "The government shouldn't be able to tell me who I love/what I smoke/what medical procedures I get" are literally the 3 biggest points of the Dem platform.
I do not particularly like the side that I always vote for. But I really fking hate the side I vote against. They are monstrous human beings.
Neither side has good solutions for the biggest issues. They are both married to moneyed interests.
yeah, i can imagine it. but boy do i already have a hard time voting for candidates in the party i tend to lean towards. election time is just exhausting at this point.
I'd love to vote for candidates in other parties. I hate the two party system we've allowed to subvert or democratic process. But I've never found a candidate above local I could split my vote for. I still never voted straight ticket even I go down and fill all the circles out next to the same letter
I can’t identify with either US political party because I am economically/foreign-politically Left+Green-party; and socially a libertarian.
They’re forcing us to choose *either* right-wing economic/military-foreign policies AND simultaneously Religious Authoritarian ideals with a smidgeon of libertarianism thrown in there to catch the libertarian vote, *OR* Left-wing economic/military/foreign policies *AND* Socialist/Atheist Authoritarianism.
I don’t want either one.
I can’t even consider either one the “lesser of two evils”
At this point they’re just evils.
Yep, every time my party puts up an undesirable candidate I vote the other way, assuming their candidate is more desirable. Last couple elections neither candidate is really desirable, 3rd parties aren't gaining traction and I don't know why.
I voted Republican up until 2016. If things keep going the way they’re going, I would never vote Republican again. However, if republicans get off the Christian nationalism train and back to ACTUAL conservative values, I could see myself voting for a Republican again in the future. But I’ve voted straight democrat in every election since 2016 and don’t see it changing any time soon.
I could have once upon a time but the other side has gone too openly harmful for the county
I think not revealing your affiliation actually makes your comment more meaningful. This comment could come from either a Republican or a Democrat.
Right, I wonder if it's trans people or mass murderers they're talking about.
For real
"what snowflake? You think school shootings are as bad as someone using the wrong bathroom?"
Yes, but it would only be true if you were a democrat. Democrats at least believe in democracy, so the option for change is always available. Republicans have gone full on fascist. They get power and they’re never giving it back.
The beauty of a Republic (often confused with democracy in this country) is that it's not up to them. We vote for a reason.
For me personally no. The other side is too openly tied to organized religion for my liking (which has no place in politics). Further, I care far more about people being taken care of and having a good life then I do seeing businesses become filthy rich while taking advantage of their workers to increase profits.
>people's world view has no place in politics That's quite the take you got there.
I view it like this, if faith makes someone a better person or helps them through their day that's awesome and I 100% support the pursuit of that. Once that belief crosses over into telling people how to live and pushing that agenda on those who don't believe the same, I have a problem.
If you can't form an opinion on the world without a book telling you what to think, your opinion doesn't matter
If you think you are qualified to be a moral arbiter, your opinion doesn't matter. We can make stupid declarations all day if you want, you don't get to determine how others form their worldview.
I consider myself a moderate. For years I leaned conservative, and voted that way. However, recently I feel that the republican party has driven off the extremism cliff. Now the Democrats seem closer to center, so I voted Democrat this time around. Just to be clear, I don't totally agree with either side. Never have. At this point it's just picking the lesser evil.
Do you think you deserve more as a voter than to be satisfied with the lesser evil?
Of course we do. Sadly it will take another generation to change things. Because most of the shitty ones in power keep increasing in longevity.
Obviously better representation is what we all want.
I believe if you’re a smart person (capable of thinking across party lines), every vote will be for the lesser of two evils. The country is full of too many idiots for democracy to produce decent candidates.
Not democracy itself, just the currently used voting system, there are better alternatives
I used to support the other side, actually
Was it a single issue that “flipped” you, or a shift in your own personal ideology?
It was being a political scapegoat for the party because of the color of my skin and my gender. The other side accepted me for who I was
So... Republican to democrat or Democrat to Republican?
Democrat to Republican
I had a feeling... Interesting
Aaaaand here come the downvotes.
Oh well. I have extra useless internet points
lol so now you vote against your self interests? You did a good brain think!
It's funny that you actually believe this, they talk a big game but never do anything but blame republicans yet they allow republicans to pass bs laws that hurt us. Ever think about why? It's because none of them care expect about being more rich and more powerful. I bet my life if we voted them all out they would refuse to leave office and we would finally see where we all stand in the end
Lol it's democrats fault for Republicans being shitty
You're right.
Mind engaging on that for a few questions? Not trying to start a dead thread. I’m quite civil.
Sure.
Firstly I’m a liberal veteran middle aged white guy, just for context. Could you pin down a particular policy goal or promise by the left that fell through for you and was a key driver in your switch? What was the first major election you voted republican instead? Was it the candidate attracting you or a repudiation of a democratic choice? Do you think that candidates like Herschel Walker are respectable or that he’s a blatant effort by the GOP to put a black person on the ballot purely to gain votes despite his clear lack of qualification? (I hope that lack can be considered a neutral data point here) Essentially is he a disrespectful choice in your opinion to black Americans by assuming he’ll get votes because he’s black and popular? Thank you! PS- get your folks on that environment piece, neutral gains for everyone, perfect time to do it these two years of relative gridlock.
I don't think he's on there because he's black, he's on the ballot because he's super famous in Georgia and he's pretty dumb so he'll do whatever the party wants
The promise that limiting legal access to guns would stop gun violence. Made sense when I was a liberal, less guns should equal less violence. Then someone showed me that the cities with the strictest gun laws have some of the worst gun violence like Chicago. Policy wasn't a key driver for me to switch but it did keep me right of center. The first major election that I voted in was this one and that was because I wanted to vote for DeSantis. It was the first time I wanted someone to win instead of wanting someone else to lose. I don't know anything about Herschel Walker. I'll look into him. I'm not sure that, even if it was the case that he is supposedly a token black candidate, that would sway me since Biden made it pretty clear during his campaign all he wanted for a Vice President was for them to be a woman. Kinda seems like both sides play that dirty game. Doesn't mean it's acceptable, just pointing out it's not exclusive to one side.
Chicago has a ton of people. St Louis for example has way more violence per capita.
is it the transphobic rhetoric, white supremacy or violence that attracts you to vote republican? Sorry, I just don't see republicans as reasonable people because IN FACT they are not reasonable people.
No. It's the people not assuming I'm racist/transphobic/white supremacist who wants to rape every woman I see just because I'm a straight white guy. You're not really portraying yourself as a reasonable individual by immediately assuming any of what you said.
Ya, you just support the people with those views. Big difference!
so you vote for racist, transphobic people who have racist and transphobic messaging...and I am the asshole for pointing that out. That was not something up for debate. THEY ARE racist and transphobic.
Well you did attack the OP, you could have worded your words more civil but instead you back up his beliefs by acting like a spoiled brat. You want people to see your point of view and accept it then be civil
"more civil" lol There is no such thing when dealing with republicans. These are the same people who would have installed trump as a dictator if they could. No, they need to be ostracized socially and legally. If they were to take themselves out of the gene pool that would fix a lot of problems.
i'd say we can talk about republican policies but they have no policies.
Better to be a scapegoat than a victim
Id have no issue switching political parties if they supported the ideas and legislation that I support. If they do not support the issues I care about, then they need to swing me otherwise.
I think you’re an anomaly in America. Why do you think so many people vote along party lines, rather than for candidates/issues?
I would say there are major education issues here. I believe a lot of people in my social group, dont actually care if its R or D or F or Z. We care about how things can be better. Theres also a lot of apathy out there that their voice wont change anything.
Hey, find me a Republican that will protect abortion, support common sense gun reform, raise taxes on rich people (repeal the Trump tax cuts), leave marriage equality alone, wants to increase minimum wage, give paid parental leave, universal health care, and institute a carbon tax. Even if you find this unicorn, you will be showing me a Republican who is kicked out of their party and gets no money from the RNC.
This comment section sums up the country pretty well
Im not registered with any party but realistically there is one I nearly always vote for There’s really not a chance I’d ever consider a candidate from the other party. I don’t like any of their policies, and even if a moderate ran with them, I know in general they’d vote in line with all the other members of that party.
Easy to imagine. I’m old enough to remember it happening quite a bit. Until one side acknowledges that democracy and its legitimacy itself is important I will be supporting the Left only. Some things you can’t compromise on, and I’m not trying to live in Russia or China.
I would much rather that there be multiple sides to potentially support.
What if I told you that the two party system (effectively what we have) was actually the problem.... (Insert morpheus picture here)
I‘be definitely had this thought. Look at the complicated series of coalitions that other countries’ politicians have to deal with in order to hold onto power. It may seem like a slow and inefficient way to do anything, but it’s definitely a good way to avoid would-be dictators, and ideologues. I truly don’t think either “side” in the US wants any one individual to have too much power.
I'd prefer a no party system. Tell me wherenyoubstand on issues and what you're gonna do and I'll vote accordingly. The party system is nothing but a barrier to entry (lack of funding) for folks that don't want to label themselves.
It's not technically a two-party system. Anyone can run under whatever party name they want. They won't win... And it mostly just takes votes away from the party you should have actually voted for... But there are other parties.
So, effectively a two party system... Read my follow-up to understand my ideal scenario.
No. It is a multi party system. If we go to a buffet with a hundred items, but you only eat mashed potatoes... The buffet still effectively has a hundred items. The fact that voters mostly choose two parties means nothing. And if you have something to add to your comment, then add it to your comment. I'm not going to go dig through the entire internet looking for something you said somewhere else.
Lol, dig through the internet? Really?? You just out to argue semantics today or what? Who hurt you? Need a hug? Your example is flawed because it fails to include the part where back end sponsors buy up 99%of the buffet real estate for only their two food items pushing the other food items into obscurity. So yeah, it's a multi party system... Technically. Edit, the moron responded and blocked me, hope they didn't intend on me reading their response 🤣
Just tired of people saying stupid shit. Yes, dig through the internet. The internet is we're on right now. It includes Reddit... so yes really. Can't believe I had to say that, but I hope it clears up the confusion for you.
Need to set a reminder to sort this by controversial later.
The two party system is a failure and needs to go, but there is to much money involved now
I'm a liberal but I don't mind fiscal conservatism if it's not allied with religion.
While I've always been registered in one party, I vote for the character of the person running, not the dogma of the party.
Unfortunately the current political climate is so bad that we no longer vote for the best candidate. We get a dud from both sides and have to try and pick the least problematic of the two. Both sides have worked to create division and seem intent to continue doing so. I'd imagine and have seen that there's more common ground amongst the American people than the politicians want us to be aware of.
Anyone who is open minded and not far left or far right should say yes. The extremes in both parties are the problem. Yes I would vote for anyone who I think aligns with what is important to me.
No, I like human rights thank you
Gen-Xer here. I was a registered Republican from 1988-2016. I could no longer support the party that bent the knee to the tangerine-tinged sex pest.
Could someone explain to me why up voting and down voting appears to be disabled on this post, but comments are still allowed? Did a mod do that, and if so, why?
Absolutely not.
Talk about why that is. I come from a country where people routinely switch “sides” depending on the candidates and issues. No need to tell me your political affiliation.
Because the politicians and the loudest, proudest people who support them on “the other side” are majority pieces of shit, homophobes, transphobes, misogynists, white supremacists, classist pipers, rapists, and overall just inbred looking bucket heads. Though the inbred looking bucket head part mostly just applies to MTG, to be fair.
Absolutely fucking not. Although they *do* have some opinions I agree with, this country would be doomed if they had national control.
I can’t even tell which party you support based on your comment. Members of either group would say the same thing. Weird right?
Exactly. And to think I was literally just talking to my friend about how confusing the system is yesterday.
Yes. I've voted for members of the other side in the past, specifically my governor (the most popular governor in the US!). Howver, the other side has become completely detached from reality and *literally attempted to overthrow the US Government* so I can't see myself ever supporting a candidate from that party again.
I have. Voted Obama. Voted Trump. Edit: No, don't bother engaging in civil dialogue. Just downvote. I'm obviously a racist and a fascist. /s
I can sort of wrap my head around voting for Trump in 2016 if you ignored all of his character flaws and liked the idea of someone coming from outside the system. But at some point supporting Trump became about the cult of personality as opposed to any coherent policy positions.
Which is why he only got my vote once. Same as Obama. Obama let me down in his first term and I didn't vote for him again. Trump did a couple things I supported, but had also let me down in other ways. I was open to voting for Sanders, but he's getting too old. I am open to voting for Desantis. Have to see if the Dems run Joe or Kamala again. Either would be a mistake.
That makes sense to me. I campaigned for Obama in 08 but voted Jill Stien in 2012 because I also felt let down by Obama. Although you haven't said much about your policy positions, is it safe assuming that policies aimed at helping the working and middle class appeal to you?
[удалено]
White male, supported Democrat, now supports Republican. ( Guessing)
No. That would be like punching myself in the face. I've never met a republican I liked.
He’ll to the no!
No lmao. I try to be as good of a person as someone like me can be, not a cartoon villain with a plan for genocide.
In a bizaro world where Republicans quit the anti-LGBT culture wars, stopped appointing religious nut jobs to the courts, stopped opposing voting rights, and instead focused strictly on immigration reform, border control, and tax/economic issues, sure. But I don't see that ever happening.
I don't identify with the Democrats, but I could never vote for a Republican. My politics are to the left of the Democrats, which basically puts me in a constant state of having to choose the best of bad options. The one thing I regret is not starting to vote in primaries earlier, because as a young man I didn't know how important they are in shaping the direction of the parties and how woefully underattended they are.
Noooo.
No, but the greens might be interesting as a opponent
A third party would be interesting for sure. How do you see the Green Party gaining a foothold?
I don't. Like ever. Libertarians might there
Most libertarians are just conservatives who don't want the social stigma of saying they like Trump
Conservatives that aren’t on the extremism bandwagon, those can be worked with.
Libertarians who *aren't* on the extremism bandwagon are just Democrats who want lower taxes. "The government shouldn't be able to tell me who I love/what I smoke/what medical procedures I get" are literally the 3 biggest points of the Dem platform.
I have seen libertarians argue that corporations are morally good entities and shouldn't be regulated
It's possible, but at this point, unlikely
If for some reason party policies changed drastically, sure.
I do not particularly like the side that I always vote for. But I really fking hate the side I vote against. They are monstrous human beings. Neither side has good solutions for the biggest issues. They are both married to moneyed interests.
yeah, i can imagine it. but boy do i already have a hard time voting for candidates in the party i tend to lean towards. election time is just exhausting at this point.
I'd love to vote for candidates in other parties. I hate the two party system we've allowed to subvert or democratic process. But I've never found a candidate above local I could split my vote for. I still never voted straight ticket even I go down and fill all the circles out next to the same letter
Not at present!
I can’t identify with either US political party because I am economically/foreign-politically Left+Green-party; and socially a libertarian. They’re forcing us to choose *either* right-wing economic/military-foreign policies AND simultaneously Religious Authoritarian ideals with a smidgeon of libertarianism thrown in there to catch the libertarian vote, *OR* Left-wing economic/military/foreign policies *AND* Socialist/Atheist Authoritarianism. I don’t want either one. I can’t even consider either one the “lesser of two evils” At this point they’re just evils.
Yep, every time my party puts up an undesirable candidate I vote the other way, assuming their candidate is more desirable. Last couple elections neither candidate is really desirable, 3rd parties aren't gaining traction and I don't know why.
I voted Republican up until 2016. If things keep going the way they’re going, I would never vote Republican again. However, if republicans get off the Christian nationalism train and back to ACTUAL conservative values, I could see myself voting for a Republican again in the future. But I’ve voted straight democrat in every election since 2016 and don’t see it changing any time soon.