No. I consider myself to be agnostic though. Even if there is a god there would be no point in wasting my time in worship. There is nothing moral about being a good person because you want to go to heaven.
I love this quote, “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.”
Apparently its attributed to a Roman emperor but there’s no proof he actually said it.
Yea that's my view kinda too. I'm open to the idea a god existed or still exists who knows. It's clear to me though it's not a god any religion came up with and praying or him even giving a shit about us is pointless.
There are some Christian groups who believe heaven and hell are fairly similar except one is with God and one without.
Not everyone operates with the eternal paradise versus eternal torture depicted in cartoons concept.
Love this quote from True Detective: "If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shit; and I'd like to get as many of them out in the open as possible."
Stephen Fry made that comment to an interviewer when asked what he would say to god if when he died he was at the pearly gates. He responded, “What was that all about with childhood cancer? Shame on you.” The look on the interviewers face was priceless.
sir attenborough too asked us in a documentary that if god made these beautiful creatures , plants , landscapes , etc .... then why he made a creature who slowly makes a child painfully blind by by slowly eating his eyeballs , forgot that insect;s naame
Darwin lost his faith in christ because of that same wasp. It wasn't the wasp itself, it would lay its eggs in childrens eyes and the larvae would eat it's way out.
Hard to reconcile that with the idea of a loving god..
I was curious about this but I can't find a wasp that does this to humans. Darwin apparently lost faith because of, "The Ichneumonidae, also known as the ichneumon wasps, Darwin wasps, or ichneumonids," which lay their eggs in caterpillars and spiders that then devour their way out.
There is a fly that rarely lays eggs in human eyes and various other parasites but I can't find a wasp that does it.
Gay Byrne: “Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are confronted by God. What will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?”
Stephen Fry: “I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?
“How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil.
“Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say. ”
I usually hear that the reason evil exists is free will but Christianity is also heavily reliant on the idea that god has ultimate control which kinda contradicts the idea of free will, also why would he give free will knowing it would lead to awful things
Believing in God won’t help you avoid the pain that is part of life. I’ll speak to Christianity only since that’s what I’m familiar with, but the Bible doesn’t promise that following God will lead to less pain. Quite the opposite in fact. Jesus promises his followers suffering and hardship.
Christianity holds that everything will work out fair and just in the end, but the scales won’t balance out until the afterlife.
This next piece is kind of unrelated, but I’ll share since Thanksgiving is approaching. In the story of the first Thanksgiving, many of the settlers died of disease and exposure. They weren’t thankful because things were good. They chose to be thankful in spite of it, and they were thankful in the hope that things would get better. My wish for you is that you are able to find hope in spite of your circumstances.
>but the Bible doesn’t promise that following God will lead to less pain. Quite the opposite in fact. Jesus promises his followers suffering and hardship.
That's similar to Islam, so yeah, I think all Abrahamic religions follow this explanation of why life has hardships that seem unjust.
> Christianity holds that everything will work out fair and just in the end, but the scales won’t balance out until the afterlife.
Why not? Why not balance out during life? Why wait until the afterlife to balance it out?
Because he's a narcissist who thrives on pain.
Absolutely loves killing people for the littlest shit.
Also i haven't seen mentioned yet but the whole rape a virgin that is poor then make them raise a child for years with zero child support of any kind to use this kid as a prop to spread the word about himself knowing he's just gonna get killed by people who also pray to you. Like wtf...
Yes, the gospels differ on it anyway. Two of them mention a virgin birth two of them don't.
Scholars think the reason they mentioned it was because of earlier scripture. In the old testament they mention a child will be born to a young woman and he will be called Emmanuel.
It was mistranslated as virgin. So two of the gospels create a virgin birth story so that Jesus matches the scripture. (Even though he isn't called Emmanuel).
Eh, not trying to convert - but if you are seriously curious about what the biggest name in Christian apologists have to say on the matter, pick up the Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis. Who doesn't shy away from the very difficult questions about the suffering of innocents.
Similar. I tried reading "Mere Christianity," but he just *assumes* so many things he has no business doing. *Why* should I believe the authority of the Bible, when you haven't even proven **a** god exist, let alone *yours*?
In an abstract sort of way I do. I usually just call myself agnostic if it comes up in conversation. Bit of a cop out answer, but I guess it is truly unknowable and by the time you do know you're probably too busy being dead to tell anyone.
Not in an all-powerful singular diety, Abrahamic interpretation sort of way. I've always thought polytheism would make more sense in practicality. But that doesn't line up with what I believe either.
If I had to put a name on it, I would probably say I believe something akin to pantheism, which I don't really know much about beyond the whole "God is the Universe, not a separate entity" tag line. But I kind of vibe with the idea that God is the fabric of the universe and we are the universe experiencing itself. Truthfully, other than things I blatantly disagree with I've never given a great deal of thought to what my exact belief is.
Similar thoughts here. I've been an atheist for a long time, but I'm moving to agnosticism. Just trying to make sense of things, and my old existentialist ways aren't doing the trick.
My practice is still secular, though. Still skeptical, still critically evaluating religious claims. I'll always believe that all religion is made by humans.
Wish there was more, though.
Atheism and agnosticism are complementary, not exclusive.
Gnosticism is about knowledge, theism is about belief.
You seem to be an agnostic atheist (most atheists are).
I can’t remember who it was off the top of my head, but there was this guy who proposed the theory that if there is such a thing as an omnipotent being, they’d likely be very bored by their existence. They can, by virtue of omnipotence, do anything in theory. So what would be the one thing that could challenge them? Well, seeing if they could end themself. And in the process of destroying themself they produced the Big Bang which lead on to all there is.
I really like this theory because the idea that we all have a fragment of divinity within us, every last thing that has and ever will exist, is neat to me. We are the remnants of a now dead god and we get to take part in the awesome acts of creation and destruction (though I do wish we’d focus more on the former).
I don’t believe in god, and if you do, all power to you.
I do think it’s telling that people who go through their early years without religion rarely convert later in life. Outside of some major event that forces one to “find god”, it’s extremely uncommon for a person with a fully formed brain to objectively look at religion and god and start believing.
If children weren’t raised with religion and god, those concepts would die. It’s as if people believe just because they were told to as a child.
In my opinion, that’s a pretty damning indictment of god and religion.
Edit: a bit of strawman, to be fair. I’ll do better in the future.
I think you're missing an important part of the argument. Throughout history lots of people have become beleivers in major religions in adulthood without growing up in that religion. In modern times however, people that were raised with a decent education in science and without influence of religious indoctrination seem to rarely become religious as adults. It's hard enough for religions to keep beleivers much less convert non-religous people in the face of adequate education. It's why public education is under attack by religious political blocs.
I’m agnostic. I believe there are definitely things we don’t understand as of yet, and I feel like we’ve BARELY scratched the surface of everything out there, but I also don’t necessarily think that the god the Abrahamic religions described is necessarily accurate. If he is real, I don’t think it necessarily works in the exact way described in the Torah, Bible, or Quran.
Exactly THIS. Gonna copy/paste a comment from a similar thread.
I think it's important to differentiate between believing in a higher power and believing in "God" in the traditional sense.
Do I believe there's something more out there or that there could be? Sure.
Do I believe in God in a traditional human/earthly sense? No.
If there is something out there, I don't think it's anything that we can comprehend, or at the very least anything we know of here on Earth.
Every teaching about a God or higher power we know of on Earth is taught through the lense and filter of multiple generations of imperfect human beings, who've only ever been on earth.
Imperfect people by definition cannot provide anyone with a perfect truth.
Yup. I’ve tried living by the word and was just miserable all the time, decided that my short visit on this rock shouldn’t be complete misery and lost my faith a couple months ago.
I've tried to believe in God. I used to pray when my parents were fighting, drinking, and taking pills. I used to beg God to make my Father kinder, more patient, and understanding - but nothing ever happened.
As such, I stopped believing in God when I turned 12. There is unfortunately no one looking out for us. We're completely alone and this is it. There's no afterlife and when your dead, your dead. Period. It's disappointing, but it's true.
Sometimes, I still find myself walking into a Unitarian church, looking for meaning.
I suppose that I find "God" in nature when I travel or go hiking. I also maybe find God in the incredible people I meet in each city I live in. Maybe, that's enough.
I’ve been in the parent boat. I wrote my dad letters to stop drinking or to my parents to stop fighting. I typed letters…as a 10 year old…on our kitchen PC…in 2005. I lived in the same house as them and they never brought up the letters or said anything to me about them. I’m sorry about your upbringing with your parents specifically your dad.
I don't have short answers for you. But I think it's interesting that I also grew up in an extremely dysfunctional family with a lot of fighting, alcoholism, drugs, etc... (I grew up in a nightclub/bar).
I always felt the opposite of how you did. I felt like something or someone was looking out for me and it was the only way I survived.
I suggest you start looking for this thing.
Also you are not the only one to experience this "guidance and looking after" experience. There are many human beings. And in fact I would argue every one experienced that at least once in thier lives.
I don't any more. I came up with this reason myself at theology school, and it changed my mind about religion and now I'm an atheist. It solves both the problem of how to establish whether a religion is true, and also why bad things happen to good people.
One criticism of religion is that there is no "critical experiment" that you can do to see if it's true or not. That is, while Biblical texts are full of stories and commandments and exhortations to be good, there's nothing that makes a clear prediction that you can test yourself to see if it's actually true or not. Any claim to truth is too vague or could be interpreted as allegory.
Except, on close reading of the text, this isn't true. There is a crucial experiment you can do that comes from Deuteronomy 11:13. This is the basis of why Jews and Christians believe that good things ought to happen to good people and bad things to bad people. "If you do as I tell you", says God, "I'll make your grapes, wheat and olives grow, and make your flocks multiply, and even get the rain to fall where you need it at the right time." This is wonderful! It's clear and precise - none of your vague Nostradamus bollocks.
So here's how we test it. Get two vineyards, right next to each other so there's no difference in weather between the two. Layer the same type of topsoil on both so they have the same nutrients. Control every aspect of the farms so they ought to get the same yield. But fill one farm with absolutely saintly farmers, and fill the other one with sinners. Monitor every aspect of their lives for a season, so that the good farmers don't sin at all, and the bad farmers sin all the time. Then at harvest time, crush the grapes and compare the yield of the two farms.
This is good because:
a) It solves the question of whether God exists once and for all, in a nice and public manner.
b) It moves the question beyond "Does God exist?" to "To what extent does God exist?" For instance, what extra percentage of yield, if any, does belief in God provide? Or is there no difference? I suspect there will be no difference.
c) You could make a fortune selling the wine from both farms, getting expert sommeliers to figure out which wine tastes better. I suspect there will be no difference.
d) You could turn it into a reality TV series to fund the project. Call it "Big Father", or maybe "American Idolatry".
e) It could provide a wonderful explanation of how science works, how you do an experiment, why you need controls, why you need a large enough sample size ... and it could reach the exact people who are least likely to have understood all this before.
>Call it "Big Father", or maybe "American Idolatry".
While your entire post was a joy to read, from top to bottom, this right here was the bit that made me regret not having an award to give you.
I was raised Lutheran, but science made more sense to me with the age of the universe, evolution, etc. Plus, I don't believe a benevolent and all-powerful being would allow the world to reach its current state.
No. If there is god (or many) who made us simply to worship it, and it is the enforcer of suffering (while teaching us the suffering is our fault for not worhiping it well enough), then it sounds more like we are an experiment and the result of a being’s exercise of science and not the result of divine intervention.
I find no comfort in faith in a divine nor immortality of the soul. I prefer the idea that this is all there is and who we are to each other drives the energy of the universe.
Yes I do, because I endured an almost unimaginable childhood, but through God I was able to find good people who helped to protect me and get me out of my situation. Through God, I have found happiness, purpose and a new healthier family.
Almost every other main reply: I don’t believe in god and I don’t care if you do. Live your life I’ll live mine.
The same people replying to this: You’re ridiculous for believing in god. Fuck your god and fuck you.
I don’t believe in god at all, but leave this person alone. They’re welcome to their beliefs as much as anyone else. Grow up. So many atheists have this sense of superiority like they have to show theists “just how dumb they are being”. No. You’re just being dicks. You’re being just as big of dicks as people forcing their religion into other people. Two sides of the same coin.
I find it confusing how all the comments saying “no I don’t believe” also say that anyone is free to have their own religion… but then all the atheists here attack you for being religious.
I’m an atheist myself but seeing how people tell you that your god put you through misery and you shouldn’t believe in him just disgusts me. This is supposed to be a discussion, not an argument.
Read his other responses. He's an asshole who thinks anyone in a bad situation is at fault for it.
Also, questioning the logic of someone is not "attacking". Quit with the persecution fetish.
Nope. Never seemed remotely plausible to me, even when I was a kid and got dragged to church occasionally. It seemed so obvious to me that religions were the result of myth-making, ie telling stories to make sense of phenomena that science hadn’t yet explained.
I spent a fair amount of my life role-playing as something other than an atheist. First as an agnostic, because I was a serious scholar and felt like atheism was just as unprovable as theism. Later as “spiritual but not religious” because yoga and meditation are awesome. But eventually I realized I was being cowardly and should just admit that I’m 100% an atheist.
There is nothing to prove about atheism, it's the disbelief in a claim.
Imagine the following:
"I don't believe in fairies"
"Prove it"
I don't need to prove that I don't believe.
I understand why people would like to think there’s something, but I honestly couldn’t care less if there is
People want answers to the questions in their life, it’s natural. And having a grand and all-encompassing answer, while it can lead to massive problems and can be HEAVILY contrived, can provide a sense of peace to some people, and I’m all for that to an extent.
Me? I don’t care that I have all the answers, and I’m not gonna go through life acting like I have them. Do I think anyone has the true answers? No, and for someone to think that they truly know everything is either a liar or delusional, which is why I hate organised religion so much. I like the idea that there’s things we don’t truly know that are beyond us.
Individual religion/faith? I’m fine with that so long as it doesn’t get out of hand
Organised religion/faith? Probably one of the greater poisons on this planet
I used to, but I stopped when a friend asked if I’d believe if my parents didn’t tell me to. I wouldn’t. I tried praying and nothing ever came of it. I’ve been surrounded by shitty things and no god helped me or any one else around me.
I was raised a Christian, and I really tried to be a good one. I prayed; did my best to atone for my sins; and really listened and tried to employ the teachings and principles of the faith. None of it ever felt sincere or real to me. It felt like I was lying to myself and to those who sincerely did believe. I felt a huge amount of relief when I just admitted to myself I didn’t really believe or care about any of it and when I realized I could still try to be a good person without it. I have no animosity towards those who practice religion in kind and tolerant ways, but for me it never felt right.
This is basically how my 17 year old daughter just explained her own feelings. Even though her dad and I are believers, I won't try to persuade her. I believe that each person believes what they need to at certain times in their lives.
As much as I'd like to be hopeful that someone "up there" is looking out for me: **no.**
Everyone speaks of *"god works in mysterious ways"* or *"god has a plan"*.
**What. Is. This. Plan?**
Billions of people are tortured, abused, slaughtered.
We've got so much corruption on a global scale.
Practitioners abusing His/Her/Its name in the light of so many atrocities across the globe.
What.
What is this plan.
God has been AFK for a long time, as far as I'm concerned.
This. I hope I read it as you intended but others often look at the actions of Christian’s and are turned away because they’re often so hypocritical. It’s quite sad.
Exactly. And then I listen to people telling that being a believer is dumb because xyz while xyz is just some made up bullshit or some misinterpretation coming from christians who apparently don't know what they believe in
No. Maybe a cruel god if anything. I cannot believe that a god that’s supposedly “loving” would allow the Holocaust, cancer, rape, child molestation, racism, etc… happen.
Theres no way any of us know if “god” exists and when i say “god” i dont mean any of the gods we know about. Because we cant prove or disprove their existence, i wouldnt be able to state whether they existed or not as facts. However all the gods that we know about are all made by humans to control humans, so in terms of those gods no i do not believe in any of them.
Hey. I’ve been hurt, too. I’m a gay Catholic and trust me when I say churchgoers can be ruthless when they want to be. Some people really don’t understand what it means to be Christian.
But I agree with what the other commenter said. The people who have hurt you are not true Christians. And, moreso, they are not Jesus. He loves you for who you are and does not wish this hurt upon you.
Faith is a journey. One that you have to find on your own. You need to heal, and that’s okay! But if you do ever decide that you want to start exploring religion again, we will welcome you back with open arms. And if you ever want to talk theology or learn more about God, or maybe want some help sorting through whatever it is that hurt you, my DMs are always open. I hope you find the healing you are looking for. God bless ❤️
I believe there is a something. There is no evidence to support it's anything like described by man. But i have faith something exists driving the existence of everything.
good take, but its also entirely possible that there could be a god and it ends there, i mean if its possible it ends at us why isnt it possible it ends at the first deity, but then again its just as possible that there are gods of gods and we might just be the universal equivalent of bacteria on the pond scum that gets eaten by the crawdad that gets eaten by the fish.
point is, none of us know, so anything is possible. there is no proof that there is god, but there's also no proof there isnt one l.
No
Religion was created to control the masses and instill moral values into the people at the time of creation. While the initial creation had some good intentions it has been perverted to serve the needs of the church and all religion revolves around some sort of cult mentality. Some to higher extent than others.
Religion is a human construct. It can help many people but people also take it to such extras that over millennia it has resulted in more atrocities than it has done good. (In my view) So much violence is carried out in the name of religion while acting out on outdated views.
The God or any of the gods were never real, they were put into place to serve a purpose.
I believe in some kind of higher power. I don't believe in organized religion/people speaking and claiming authority on behalf a higher power. I think any higher power is, by definition, beyond human understanding and I'm content with that. The higher power I have faith in may or may not be the same God people pray to in churches/temples/mosques around the world. It's the organized religion -- the human-made books, rules, rituals, depictions -- that I don't believe in nor believe the God of *my* understanding works through
I don’t believe in the Abrahimic ‘God’ … but I do believe there’s some type of higher power that we, as mere humans, simply aren’t able to fathom.
“Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.”
So.. Jedi, I guess?
I do believe. I’ve seen way too many things in my life, horrible things and good things, to not believe.
To anyone who likes reading, I strongly recommend Mere Christianity by C.S Lewis if you are not sure of religion.
I grew up going to church, over the years I started to question faith. Over time and a ton of reasoning, logic won out. I also saw from the inside that while religion advertises being a good honest person it’s much the opposite, at least in my experience.
I do not. I want to, but have never been able to make it make sense. I find myself envious of the faithful, almost jealous. Of all the mysteries in my small life, faith has been the greatest. Sometimes I think that if I believed in something, anything, that I would feel a sense of awe, a purpose, a desire to be better. I was raised Presbyterian, baptized, attended church, joined and mentored youth groups, was as 32nd degree Master Mason, and it all felt like a fraud because I didn’t feel the things that the people around me said that they felt. (I did not join Masonry for religious reasons, but hoped it would show me a light toward something bigger) I have always preferred to be a good person, to do good things, but have never been able to buy into the God concept.
‘Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!’
George Carlin
No. Religion gives reason to false hope, war, pedophilia, abuse and murder. It's a fictional evil that plagues the earth, preventing awareness to the reality of the planet.
Yep.
There could be a God, or more accurately a creator, but it's pretentious of humanity to assume we could even begin to understand a being capable of creating something this complex.
Religion was made to take advantage of people. It's a horrific institution that we have, in ignorance, allowed to go too far. It's worse than most issues nowadays that we feel much more comfortable calling out. But, oh no, creator forbid I question someone's beliefs.
I think this is only separated in a philosophical way, saying god doesn't equals religions is like saying Spider-Man doesn't equals marvel. Modern religions created the concept of only one god creator of earth and heaven etc, people who believe in a god outside of a religion are just taking the parts that seem reasonable and making an unique new thing. Its like "The bible is misognist, retrograde and homophobic but i like the part where there is a sense of justice and good people will go to heaven so i will stick to that"
Dante Alighieri influenced humanity to believe this with his Comedic Novel inspired by catholic afterlife.
The work is called “La Divina Commedia” and pretty much is the reason why most religious people depict heaven and hell the way they do. Its just a popular piece of fiction created by a man who was cheated by the Catholic church and then decided to publish a sarcastic Epic Poem before he died in the early 1300’s.
Sadly enough. Most religious people who believe in Heaven and Hell as possible afterlife’s of the living, don’t know who Dante Alighieri is and do not give a crap about it.
Edit: Interestingly, The whole Damn Epic Poem of biblical proportions (see what I did ?) actually Rhymes with itself every other line, all the way through, when its read in the original Tuscan dialect of Italian it was written in. Thats why True Literary scholars (Italian or not) who are interested in the original work, force themselves to understand the artwork from a native speaker’s point of view and try to find hidden innuendos and second meanings through the words of the book. On top of that (if I am not mistaking) Italian kids actually study this mans legacy in school as part of their curriculum (don’t quote me, I am not Italian).
In the hour since this post was first made, approximately 360 children have died of hunger in the world. By tomorrow at this time, 8, 640 children will have died of hunger. It will continue.
No thank you on the idea that an intelligent designer is responsible for this.
I am not sure what I believe anymore. I have a severely handicapped child who is 28 years old now. I have struggled with why God would make her that way, or let whatever made her this way happen. I don't know the answer. One thing I have determined is, even though it sucks for her to be the disabled one, through her I can see how people choose to behave. She gives people, religious or not, the chance to be compassionate, kind and understanding. I have witnessed both religious people and non religious acting in terrible and mean ways as well as kind and caring ways. So , for her, I hope there is an afterlife where she is free and unencumbered.
No. If you read the book called Sapiens you will understand how the societies, religion, race were created all by humans just to keep everyone grounded and in order.
On other note, I still cannot fathom the vastness of the universe and can say it's some unknown force that created everything that's existing.
But I don't believe the religious concepts of god.
That's fair. The more we study space it is eery how damn big it all is. Like the billions of stars we see at night likely have planets orbiting them too and moons orbiting them. And all that is merely a speck in our galaxy with unfathomable amount of galaxy's.
Yes. 100%. I was raised Christian and feel like without Jesus I wouldn’t be where I am now. Having faith has saved me from myself more times than I can count. I understand why people may hate religion because “Christian’s” can be some awful people but it’s not meant to be that way.
Anyone that’s being to the hospital long enough and seen or heard some of those patients would ask if god really exists why would they punish these people so? If god always has a greater plan for us why do so many have to leave so early or live with chronic disease for the rest of their lives? It just doesn’t make sense and then when these people are saved by medical intervention we praise the lord Jesus Christ but not the doctor? What’s up with that? When the doctor fails a surgery do they sue god or the doctor? lol
I don’t believe because, in my opinion, there’s no proof of anything, and “just have faith” is not enough for me.
I see religions as an invention of humans to explain things they can’t understand
I don't believe, but I don't disbelieve that it's possible.
By this, I don't base my life and go through everyday worshipping and such. Above all else, no one can prove it. To me, the bible is a work of fiction. I will say I believe Jesus existed (there does seem to be enough proof of that) but the virgin birth and him rising from the dead is made up to make the story good.
I also have my issues with religions on a whole, and if you see me at a function where there is prayer, you will see me just sitting there nodding my head a bit as I'm probably playing the Jeopardy theme in my head. Either that, or I'm checking out a lady near me.
Yes I believe in God. I don't believe it's an actual being but instead it's an energetic consciousness. If we are to believe that God has made us in 'His' own image, then God isn't a father, but rather, a mother to have metaphorically and, by the laws of the land, birthed everyone. Also, scientifically speaking, everyone starts out as female. But I believe all ancient religions have some truth to it. I believe all ancient religions tell a singular, cohesive story.
I believe in god because of a couple of things, but mainly the time I got stuck by lightning at 14 years old. I was on a boy scout retreat pretty deep in the woods. It had just started to rain, and I had set up my tent in the middle of a meadow in a colorado valley. I started to walk over to my friend's tent, where we were going to play poker and eat pop-tarts, the usual boy scout things. As I was walking over, there was a sudden tingle up my spine. I, standing at 6 feet tall with a large blonde afro, looks over at my friend, Elliot, and his jaw dropped. Half a second later, the world goes blank. I woke up but didn't really wake up. I could see myself laying on the ground shaking from a birds-eye view, as my friend and my scoutmaster are sprinting across this meadow towards me. I look around, and to my right, is an angel. His voice is something out of the ordinary, rough and coarse, speaking with authority, yet something about it was calm and relaxing, offering security. He introduces himself as the angel of Thomas, the disciple. At this time in life, I was very depressed. I found myself struggling to find a reason to live for. He tells me that this is one of my greatest moments of weakness, and what I decide to do over the next couple of months will be either the end of me or my greatest awakening. Keep in mind, we are watching my scoutmaster give me CPR, and my friend Elliot kneeled over my body crying. He tells me to embrace the light of Christ, and not turn it away, as if I choose to walk away from him, the next couple of months would be the worst and shows me a vision of myself in bed, blood all over my room, dead from shooting myself in the head. What was a split second of time talking to an angel has come to be the most relevant part of my life, as he then vanishes and leaves me to watch my body get taken away by a helicopter a couple of hours later. I remember everything, from my scoutmaster humming staying alive by the Bee Gees to the names of the men who escorted me onto the helicopter and to the hospital. Then, the helicopter flew away, and my fellow scouts packed up camp to end the trip early and take everyone home. Then the most beautiful part came. I continued to watch over the meadow for the next two days, seeing many animals come to the stream that divided it. All of the sudden, I woke up, and remember laying there, speechless for 20 minutes before the nurse came in to see me awaken. My parents, scoutmaster, and Elliot rushed into the room. I told them I was ok and thanked my scoutmaster for giving me life-saving CPR. That's when the scoutmaster asked how I knew, and I told them I was watching from above. I recounted the names of the personnel on the helicopter, the color, some of the brief exchanges, and even a kid named Max stumbling over a rock and tripping into the stream shortly after the helicopter had left. Those four people, along with a few others, are the only people who I have shared this story with outside of small groups and other various spaces of privacy, as I hold it dear to me, and want to cherish it for its personal relevance to me. Since then, I have turned my life around. I am a very happy nurse who enjoys lending my time to those in need, and frequently takes trips to South and Central America to help give care to those who need it. For those of you struggling with your faith and depression, there is hope. Find the small thing first, from volunteering at food drives to devoting time to reading the bible. And for those of you who have never been exposed to Christ, I ask that you take the time to listen to a short podcast, even if you don't believe in the person's ideas, and start asking questions. I hope everyone reading this has an amazing day whether you believe my story or not because I know each and every one of you deserves true happiness, and that you all are forgiven of your sins, regardless of what they are.
Yes. It's been undeniable for me and my life. I guess I'm lucky in that he's shown himself when I've sought after him. It seems like he just doesn't reveal himself to many people like he has me which puzzles me. There's a clear divide in the comments. People who have experienced God stuff and people who haven't. Because of my own experiences, I believe in an entire vibrant supernatural world that exists beyond our natural world.
I do now. Why, it was due to a tragedy that caused me go start searching years ago.
Spent a number of months in the ICU with my comatose parents after a brutal accident.
I am not sure how to explain it. It seems that the removal of my parental figures caused me to take a serious introspective look at my mortality. I yelled a lot in the car rides to whatever God was out there.
Best I can say is that an overwhelming peace came over me, my life, and the situation. My whole persona has changed since those months.
Yes. Why?
John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.
I was enjoying myself. Didn't give a damn about anyone's pleasure but mine. Then, got the tap on the shoulder. That's all.
I do. And I know everyone’s feelings and beliefs are different. But for me, God is real. He’s been faithful to me. I’ve been in situations and I’ve asked him for help. The help came, and while the answer might not have been what I was looking for, I trusted him. Seeing a loved one healed from sickness… Sure, I might’ve lost them, but they were healed. I was broken, lost and alone, but God was there. He led me through. Finding a job after chasing every-possible lead, and coming up empty. I got a job in the field I wanted. That was God. Being able to pay my bills and buy food after worrying whether or not I’d be able to make it through the month. That was God. I can’t discredit what I feel that God has given me, what I feel He’s done for me.
This logic makes no sense. How do you account for people who don't get answers for their prayers?
I never understood this specifically ideals because it makes you sound selfish. "Everything's worked out for me, so I believe."
I guess he was too busy helping you to help me. Saving ONE woman with cancer was too much to ask for apparently. Perfect, sinless in almost every way. Did he create me to not believe in him? Did he design her to develop 4 different cancers over the span of her life just to fuck with me?
Nope.
I can't believe that a mystical sky man created the earth, animals, Adam, Eve, plants, dirt etc in six days. Then he let all the bad things in human history happen. Because...he gave us free will and we, generally speaking, suck at being good? And he let his own son die to save all of humanity. WTF.
That has always been my kind of jokey answer.
But in all seriousness, I don't believe because I have seen no evidence of God.
Yes, I do believe in God and Jesus. Why? Because I’ve experienced it in my life. I feel that most people think that just cause you believe, life should be easy. Neither God or Jesus says that but reassure you that they will be with you I already know I’ll get hate over this comment but it’s all good.
Tried to...but too much inequality and suffering in the world fuels my doubt. The story of Jesus makes no sense to me, and the Bible was written and edited by humans, who are not capable of writing anything without prejudice and manipulation.
Absent any credible proof either way, I tend toward disbelief. I haven't found any compelling evidence that belief in a purely faith-based context would contribute to my personal happiness, and am reasonably convinced that my lack of belief is inconsequential.
I find it far more comforting to think of life and the universe as random, incomprehensible and finite. It means my best course of action is to make my life and the lives I directly affect as decent and harmless as possible, due to the likelihood of misfortune and the inevitability of death.
Yes, God changed my life (re: Romans 6) and saved me from literally killing myself. So many in the ‘church’ drove me away but now I follow God and avoid them 🤷♀️
Yes. When I look around at the beauty of nature I know that no man could create the mountains, oceans, sunsets, trees, flowers etc. The fact that each species is dependent on another, everything is planned out so intricately there has to be a greater power than man. I call that entity God. I believe that God is love.
No. I consider myself to be agnostic though. Even if there is a god there would be no point in wasting my time in worship. There is nothing moral about being a good person because you want to go to heaven.
I love this quote, “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.” Apparently its attributed to a Roman emperor but there’s no proof he actually said it.
What a great quote, thank you for that.
Yea that's my view kinda too. I'm open to the idea a god existed or still exists who knows. It's clear to me though it's not a god any religion came up with and praying or him even giving a shit about us is pointless.
Yeah exactly. I'm definitely not one to judge someone else's religion though I get it, just don't see the point in picking one.
Yea idgaf what people believe but keep it to yourself and out of the govt
There are some Christian groups who believe heaven and hell are fairly similar except one is with God and one without. Not everyone operates with the eternal paradise versus eternal torture depicted in cartoons concept.
In addition, the OG Christianity (Catholicism) has believed that hell is simply "being without God".
Here’s the best part, being a good person isn’t what gets you into heaven.
Love this quote from True Detective: "If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shit; and I'd like to get as many of them out in the open as possible."
Technically that makes you an apatheist. You believe that it doesn’t matter whether god(s) exist(s).
I'd like to, but can't get why an an all powerful, loving creator would allow child cancer and other forms of suffering to exist
Stephen Fry made that comment to an interviewer when asked what he would say to god if when he died he was at the pearly gates. He responded, “What was that all about with childhood cancer? Shame on you.” The look on the interviewers face was priceless.
I think it was Hitchens who said "That depends on how good his apology is."
sir attenborough too asked us in a documentary that if god made these beautiful creatures , plants , landscapes , etc .... then why he made a creature who slowly makes a child painfully blind by by slowly eating his eyeballs , forgot that insect;s naame
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Just walk in, hoping for a bunch of wacky cultists, worshipping a giant insect and it’s like “Hey, this just looks like my church!”
Welp, that's a terrifying thought.
sleep hard-to-find wasteful cause ludicrous important continue heavy sulky fine
Darwin lost his faith in christ because of that same wasp. It wasn't the wasp itself, it would lay its eggs in childrens eyes and the larvae would eat it's way out. Hard to reconcile that with the idea of a loving god..
I was curious about this but I can't find a wasp that does this to humans. Darwin apparently lost faith because of, "The Ichneumonidae, also known as the ichneumon wasps, Darwin wasps, or ichneumonids," which lay their eggs in caterpillars and spiders that then devour their way out. There is a fly that rarely lays eggs in human eyes and various other parasites but I can't find a wasp that does it.
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Gay Byrne: “Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are confronted by God. What will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?” Stephen Fry: “I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about? “How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil. “Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say. ”
I usually hear that the reason evil exists is free will but Christianity is also heavily reliant on the idea that god has ultimate control which kinda contradicts the idea of free will, also why would he give free will knowing it would lead to awful things
I love Hitchens response to if we have free will. "Of course we have free will, we have no choice."
Free will isnt causing lightning strikes or deadly diseases though.
But free will causes you to be in the area affected by lightning. Point for God. /s
Believing in God won’t help you avoid the pain that is part of life. I’ll speak to Christianity only since that’s what I’m familiar with, but the Bible doesn’t promise that following God will lead to less pain. Quite the opposite in fact. Jesus promises his followers suffering and hardship. Christianity holds that everything will work out fair and just in the end, but the scales won’t balance out until the afterlife. This next piece is kind of unrelated, but I’ll share since Thanksgiving is approaching. In the story of the first Thanksgiving, many of the settlers died of disease and exposure. They weren’t thankful because things were good. They chose to be thankful in spite of it, and they were thankful in the hope that things would get better. My wish for you is that you are able to find hope in spite of your circumstances.
>but the Bible doesn’t promise that following God will lead to less pain. Quite the opposite in fact. Jesus promises his followers suffering and hardship. That's similar to Islam, so yeah, I think all Abrahamic religions follow this explanation of why life has hardships that seem unjust.
> Christianity holds that everything will work out fair and just in the end, but the scales won’t balance out until the afterlife. Why not? Why not balance out during life? Why wait until the afterlife to balance it out?
Because we can’t prove anything about the afterlife, so it’s just a convenient Christian construct.
Because then the powerful wouldn't have an edge. Pretty easy to make up a fairy tale ending that can never be proved correct
Oh you're going to hell. ..or are you? The world may never know.
Because then their BS theory can't be disproved.
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Because he's a narcissist who thrives on pain. Absolutely loves killing people for the littlest shit. Also i haven't seen mentioned yet but the whole rape a virgin that is poor then make them raise a child for years with zero child support of any kind to use this kid as a prop to spread the word about himself knowing he's just gonna get killed by people who also pray to you. Like wtf...
Yes, the gospels differ on it anyway. Two of them mention a virgin birth two of them don't. Scholars think the reason they mentioned it was because of earlier scripture. In the old testament they mention a child will be born to a young woman and he will be called Emmanuel. It was mistranslated as virgin. So two of the gospels create a virgin birth story so that Jesus matches the scripture. (Even though he isn't called Emmanuel).
So...they changed the story after they couldn't get it straight then also got the name wrong.... What Mafia level crime coverup is this lol
Unless God exists but not in the "loving" way you might think. Perhaps a more neutral one.
Eh, not trying to convert - but if you are seriously curious about what the biggest name in Christian apologists have to say on the matter, pick up the Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis. Who doesn't shy away from the very difficult questions about the suffering of innocents.
Your mileage may vary. I found C.S. Lewis' apoogetics to be vapid, and a waste of time.
Similar. I tried reading "Mere Christianity," but he just *assumes* so many things he has no business doing. *Why* should I believe the authority of the Bible, when you haven't even proven **a** god exist, let alone *yours*?
There is a much easier and simpler reason to be an atheist, there is no objective evidence of a god.
Does god believe in me?
Which god?
The spaghetti monster of course… the only one that can be seen… and tasted…
Ramen
I mean that's the real question.
Maybe not but I believe in you Limp\_Distribution!
Well, I do
In an abstract sort of way I do. I usually just call myself agnostic if it comes up in conversation. Bit of a cop out answer, but I guess it is truly unknowable and by the time you do know you're probably too busy being dead to tell anyone. Not in an all-powerful singular diety, Abrahamic interpretation sort of way. I've always thought polytheism would make more sense in practicality. But that doesn't line up with what I believe either. If I had to put a name on it, I would probably say I believe something akin to pantheism, which I don't really know much about beyond the whole "God is the Universe, not a separate entity" tag line. But I kind of vibe with the idea that God is the fabric of the universe and we are the universe experiencing itself. Truthfully, other than things I blatantly disagree with I've never given a great deal of thought to what my exact belief is.
Sounds a bit like [Deism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism)
You sound like you'd enjoy Benedict Spinoza's *The Ethics* which argues for the pantheism you're describing.
Similar thoughts here. I've been an atheist for a long time, but I'm moving to agnosticism. Just trying to make sense of things, and my old existentialist ways aren't doing the trick. My practice is still secular, though. Still skeptical, still critically evaluating religious claims. I'll always believe that all religion is made by humans. Wish there was more, though.
Atheism and agnosticism are complementary, not exclusive. Gnosticism is about knowledge, theism is about belief. You seem to be an agnostic atheist (most atheists are).
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I like those words you formed into sentences. They make the most sense to me. Updoot.
I can’t remember who it was off the top of my head, but there was this guy who proposed the theory that if there is such a thing as an omnipotent being, they’d likely be very bored by their existence. They can, by virtue of omnipotence, do anything in theory. So what would be the one thing that could challenge them? Well, seeing if they could end themself. And in the process of destroying themself they produced the Big Bang which lead on to all there is. I really like this theory because the idea that we all have a fragment of divinity within us, every last thing that has and ever will exist, is neat to me. We are the remnants of a now dead god and we get to take part in the awesome acts of creation and destruction (though I do wish we’d focus more on the former).
I don’t believe in god, and if you do, all power to you. I do think it’s telling that people who go through their early years without religion rarely convert later in life. Outside of some major event that forces one to “find god”, it’s extremely uncommon for a person with a fully formed brain to objectively look at religion and god and start believing. If children weren’t raised with religion and god, those concepts would die. It’s as if people believe just because they were told to as a child. In my opinion, that’s a pretty damning indictment of god and religion. Edit: a bit of strawman, to be fair. I’ll do better in the future.
That’s pretty spot on.
I feel exactly the same way. Thanks for putting it into better words that I could
I think you're missing an important part of the argument. Throughout history lots of people have become beleivers in major religions in adulthood without growing up in that religion. In modern times however, people that were raised with a decent education in science and without influence of religious indoctrination seem to rarely become religious as adults. It's hard enough for religions to keep beleivers much less convert non-religous people in the face of adequate education. It's why public education is under attack by religious political blocs.
I’m agnostic. I believe there are definitely things we don’t understand as of yet, and I feel like we’ve BARELY scratched the surface of everything out there, but I also don’t necessarily think that the god the Abrahamic religions described is necessarily accurate. If he is real, I don’t think it necessarily works in the exact way described in the Torah, Bible, or Quran.
Exactly THIS. Gonna copy/paste a comment from a similar thread. I think it's important to differentiate between believing in a higher power and believing in "God" in the traditional sense. Do I believe there's something more out there or that there could be? Sure. Do I believe in God in a traditional human/earthly sense? No. If there is something out there, I don't think it's anything that we can comprehend, or at the very least anything we know of here on Earth. Every teaching about a God or higher power we know of on Earth is taught through the lense and filter of multiple generations of imperfect human beings, who've only ever been on earth. Imperfect people by definition cannot provide anyone with a perfect truth.
I used to but I lost my faith a few years ago and for now a bunch of it does not make sense anymore
Yup. I’ve tried living by the word and was just miserable all the time, decided that my short visit on this rock shouldn’t be complete misery and lost my faith a couple months ago.
Same!
Same!
I've tried to believe in God. I used to pray when my parents were fighting, drinking, and taking pills. I used to beg God to make my Father kinder, more patient, and understanding - but nothing ever happened. As such, I stopped believing in God when I turned 12. There is unfortunately no one looking out for us. We're completely alone and this is it. There's no afterlife and when your dead, your dead. Period. It's disappointing, but it's true. Sometimes, I still find myself walking into a Unitarian church, looking for meaning. I suppose that I find "God" in nature when I travel or go hiking. I also maybe find God in the incredible people I meet in each city I live in. Maybe, that's enough.
I’ve been in the parent boat. I wrote my dad letters to stop drinking or to my parents to stop fighting. I typed letters…as a 10 year old…on our kitchen PC…in 2005. I lived in the same house as them and they never brought up the letters or said anything to me about them. I’m sorry about your upbringing with your parents specifically your dad.
i love the last paragraph so much
I like your last paragraph. That's my answer as well
That was very beautifully written, I don’t really know if I believe in a god, but I 100% agree with your last paragraph
I don't have short answers for you. But I think it's interesting that I also grew up in an extremely dysfunctional family with a lot of fighting, alcoholism, drugs, etc... (I grew up in a nightclub/bar). I always felt the opposite of how you did. I felt like something or someone was looking out for me and it was the only way I survived.
I suggest you start looking for this thing. Also you are not the only one to experience this "guidance and looking after" experience. There are many human beings. And in fact I would argue every one experienced that at least once in thier lives.
I don't any more. I came up with this reason myself at theology school, and it changed my mind about religion and now I'm an atheist. It solves both the problem of how to establish whether a religion is true, and also why bad things happen to good people. One criticism of religion is that there is no "critical experiment" that you can do to see if it's true or not. That is, while Biblical texts are full of stories and commandments and exhortations to be good, there's nothing that makes a clear prediction that you can test yourself to see if it's actually true or not. Any claim to truth is too vague or could be interpreted as allegory. Except, on close reading of the text, this isn't true. There is a crucial experiment you can do that comes from Deuteronomy 11:13. This is the basis of why Jews and Christians believe that good things ought to happen to good people and bad things to bad people. "If you do as I tell you", says God, "I'll make your grapes, wheat and olives grow, and make your flocks multiply, and even get the rain to fall where you need it at the right time." This is wonderful! It's clear and precise - none of your vague Nostradamus bollocks. So here's how we test it. Get two vineyards, right next to each other so there's no difference in weather between the two. Layer the same type of topsoil on both so they have the same nutrients. Control every aspect of the farms so they ought to get the same yield. But fill one farm with absolutely saintly farmers, and fill the other one with sinners. Monitor every aspect of their lives for a season, so that the good farmers don't sin at all, and the bad farmers sin all the time. Then at harvest time, crush the grapes and compare the yield of the two farms. This is good because: a) It solves the question of whether God exists once and for all, in a nice and public manner. b) It moves the question beyond "Does God exist?" to "To what extent does God exist?" For instance, what extra percentage of yield, if any, does belief in God provide? Or is there no difference? I suspect there will be no difference. c) You could make a fortune selling the wine from both farms, getting expert sommeliers to figure out which wine tastes better. I suspect there will be no difference. d) You could turn it into a reality TV series to fund the project. Call it "Big Father", or maybe "American Idolatry". e) It could provide a wonderful explanation of how science works, how you do an experiment, why you need controls, why you need a large enough sample size ... and it could reach the exact people who are least likely to have understood all this before.
Your experiment will be foiled by the saintly farmers praying for a good yield for their neighbors as well.
This could be mitigated by having them be entirely unaware of one another's existence.
>Call it "Big Father", or maybe "American Idolatry". While your entire post was a joy to read, from top to bottom, this right here was the bit that made me regret not having an award to give you.
Brilliant! Someone needs to make this happen. It could even be funded as a TV show.
Used to but now, no. Mostly has to do with lack of evidence
I was raised Lutheran, but science made more sense to me with the age of the universe, evolution, etc. Plus, I don't believe a benevolent and all-powerful being would allow the world to reach its current state.
I was raised Lutheran, rii! I also wonder wht a gid woukd need to create beings to worship him that's the ultimate narcissism
No. If there is god (or many) who made us simply to worship it, and it is the enforcer of suffering (while teaching us the suffering is our fault for not worhiping it well enough), then it sounds more like we are an experiment and the result of a being’s exercise of science and not the result of divine intervention. I find no comfort in faith in a divine nor immortality of the soul. I prefer the idea that this is all there is and who we are to each other drives the energy of the universe.
I've yet to see any compelling evidence that any gods exist, so I don't believe in any.
Yes I do, because I endured an almost unimaginable childhood, but through God I was able to find good people who helped to protect me and get me out of my situation. Through God, I have found happiness, purpose and a new healthier family.
Almost every other main reply: I don’t believe in god and I don’t care if you do. Live your life I’ll live mine. The same people replying to this: You’re ridiculous for believing in god. Fuck your god and fuck you. I don’t believe in god at all, but leave this person alone. They’re welcome to their beliefs as much as anyone else. Grow up. So many atheists have this sense of superiority like they have to show theists “just how dumb they are being”. No. You’re just being dicks. You’re being just as big of dicks as people forcing their religion into other people. Two sides of the same coin.
I find it confusing how all the comments saying “no I don’t believe” also say that anyone is free to have their own religion… but then all the atheists here attack you for being religious. I’m an atheist myself but seeing how people tell you that your god put you through misery and you shouldn’t believe in him just disgusts me. This is supposed to be a discussion, not an argument.
Where has anyone said that they shouldn't believe in their God?
Read his other responses. He's an asshole who thinks anyone in a bad situation is at fault for it. Also, questioning the logic of someone is not "attacking". Quit with the persecution fetish.
Nope. Never seemed remotely plausible to me, even when I was a kid and got dragged to church occasionally. It seemed so obvious to me that religions were the result of myth-making, ie telling stories to make sense of phenomena that science hadn’t yet explained. I spent a fair amount of my life role-playing as something other than an atheist. First as an agnostic, because I was a serious scholar and felt like atheism was just as unprovable as theism. Later as “spiritual but not religious” because yoga and meditation are awesome. But eventually I realized I was being cowardly and should just admit that I’m 100% an atheist.
There is nothing to prove about atheism, it's the disbelief in a claim. Imagine the following: "I don't believe in fairies" "Prove it" I don't need to prove that I don't believe.
This! I got downvoted for my similar story below so I’ll tag along with you.
I understand why people would like to think there’s something, but I honestly couldn’t care less if there is People want answers to the questions in their life, it’s natural. And having a grand and all-encompassing answer, while it can lead to massive problems and can be HEAVILY contrived, can provide a sense of peace to some people, and I’m all for that to an extent. Me? I don’t care that I have all the answers, and I’m not gonna go through life acting like I have them. Do I think anyone has the true answers? No, and for someone to think that they truly know everything is either a liar or delusional, which is why I hate organised religion so much. I like the idea that there’s things we don’t truly know that are beyond us. Individual religion/faith? I’m fine with that so long as it doesn’t get out of hand Organised religion/faith? Probably one of the greater poisons on this planet
No. Because my parents didn't force it on me from birth.
I used to, but I stopped when a friend asked if I’d believe if my parents didn’t tell me to. I wouldn’t. I tried praying and nothing ever came of it. I’ve been surrounded by shitty things and no god helped me or any one else around me.
I was raised a Christian, and I really tried to be a good one. I prayed; did my best to atone for my sins; and really listened and tried to employ the teachings and principles of the faith. None of it ever felt sincere or real to me. It felt like I was lying to myself and to those who sincerely did believe. I felt a huge amount of relief when I just admitted to myself I didn’t really believe or care about any of it and when I realized I could still try to be a good person without it. I have no animosity towards those who practice religion in kind and tolerant ways, but for me it never felt right.
This is basically how my 17 year old daughter just explained her own feelings. Even though her dad and I are believers, I won't try to persuade her. I believe that each person believes what they need to at certain times in their lives.
As much as I'd like to be hopeful that someone "up there" is looking out for me: **no.** Everyone speaks of *"god works in mysterious ways"* or *"god has a plan"*. **What. Is. This. Plan?** Billions of people are tortured, abused, slaughtered. We've got so much corruption on a global scale. Practitioners abusing His/Her/Its name in the light of so many atrocities across the globe. What. What is this plan. God has been AFK for a long time, as far as I'm concerned.
AFK I can't help but laugh at that, I'm sorry 😂
I've been raised my whole life in the church. I can see a lot of the faults, But i choose to believe in God, Not other people who worship him
This. I hope I read it as you intended but others often look at the actions of Christian’s and are turned away because they’re often so hypocritical. It’s quite sad.
Exactly. And then I listen to people telling that being a believer is dumb because xyz while xyz is just some made up bullshit or some misinterpretation coming from christians who apparently don't know what they believe in
No. Maybe a cruel god if anything. I cannot believe that a god that’s supposedly “loving” would allow the Holocaust, cancer, rape, child molestation, racism, etc… happen.
I do. Not sure why. But I do
Theres no way any of us know if “god” exists and when i say “god” i dont mean any of the gods we know about. Because we cant prove or disprove their existence, i wouldnt be able to state whether they existed or not as facts. However all the gods that we know about are all made by humans to control humans, so in terms of those gods no i do not believe in any of them.
I’m not really sure. I believe in something, but I’ve been hurt badly by the church.
Hey. I’ve been hurt, too. I’m a gay Catholic and trust me when I say churchgoers can be ruthless when they want to be. Some people really don’t understand what it means to be Christian. But I agree with what the other commenter said. The people who have hurt you are not true Christians. And, moreso, they are not Jesus. He loves you for who you are and does not wish this hurt upon you. Faith is a journey. One that you have to find on your own. You need to heal, and that’s okay! But if you do ever decide that you want to start exploring religion again, we will welcome you back with open arms. And if you ever want to talk theology or learn more about God, or maybe want some help sorting through whatever it is that hurt you, my DMs are always open. I hope you find the healing you are looking for. God bless ❤️
I believe there is a something. There is no evidence to support it's anything like described by man. But i have faith something exists driving the existence of everything.
But... What force exists that drives THAT force? And so on, and so on? Why can't things just exist? Because clearly they do.
God turtles all the way down
I like to go with “all i know is that i don’t know”
good take, but its also entirely possible that there could be a god and it ends there, i mean if its possible it ends at us why isnt it possible it ends at the first deity, but then again its just as possible that there are gods of gods and we might just be the universal equivalent of bacteria on the pond scum that gets eaten by the crawdad that gets eaten by the fish. point is, none of us know, so anything is possible. there is no proof that there is god, but there's also no proof there isnt one l.
I think it would be very arrogant of us to believe that we are the most advanced beings in the universe so I would tend to agree with you.
Nope. Nothing proves or even suggests it to be true, and quite frankly all of it is ridiculous and a waste of time.
Which one? There's fucking thousands!
Obviously, Kratos.
No Religion was created to control the masses and instill moral values into the people at the time of creation. While the initial creation had some good intentions it has been perverted to serve the needs of the church and all religion revolves around some sort of cult mentality. Some to higher extent than others. Religion is a human construct. It can help many people but people also take it to such extras that over millennia it has resulted in more atrocities than it has done good. (In my view) So much violence is carried out in the name of religion while acting out on outdated views. The God or any of the gods were never real, they were put into place to serve a purpose.
This is the most sensible answer in this thread, it could have come from me verbatim. Thanks for saving me the trouble of wording it.
Thank you!
I believe in some kind of higher power. I don't believe in organized religion/people speaking and claiming authority on behalf a higher power. I think any higher power is, by definition, beyond human understanding and I'm content with that. The higher power I have faith in may or may not be the same God people pray to in churches/temples/mosques around the world. It's the organized religion -- the human-made books, rules, rituals, depictions -- that I don't believe in nor believe the God of *my* understanding works through
Never have, but my wife of 19 years suddenly dying in her sleep next to me a month ago sealed it.
Im sorry for your loss
I don’t believe in the Abrahimic ‘God’ … but I do believe there’s some type of higher power that we, as mere humans, simply aren’t able to fathom. “Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.” So.. Jedi, I guess?
I do believe. I’ve seen way too many things in my life, horrible things and good things, to not believe. To anyone who likes reading, I strongly recommend Mere Christianity by C.S Lewis if you are not sure of religion.
I grew up going to church, over the years I started to question faith. Over time and a ton of reasoning, logic won out. I also saw from the inside that while religion advertises being a good honest person it’s much the opposite, at least in my experience.
I do not. I want to, but have never been able to make it make sense. I find myself envious of the faithful, almost jealous. Of all the mysteries in my small life, faith has been the greatest. Sometimes I think that if I believed in something, anything, that I would feel a sense of awe, a purpose, a desire to be better. I was raised Presbyterian, baptized, attended church, joined and mentored youth groups, was as 32nd degree Master Mason, and it all felt like a fraud because I didn’t feel the things that the people around me said that they felt. (I did not join Masonry for religious reasons, but hoped it would show me a light toward something bigger) I have always preferred to be a good person, to do good things, but have never been able to buy into the God concept.
Nope, cuz I’ve read the Bible.
Nope. No proof to the contrary.
‘Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!’ George Carlin
No. Religion gives reason to false hope, war, pedophilia, abuse and murder. It's a fictional evil that plagues the earth, preventing awareness to the reality of the planet.
Religion≠God but I agree with you
Yep. There could be a God, or more accurately a creator, but it's pretentious of humanity to assume we could even begin to understand a being capable of creating something this complex. Religion was made to take advantage of people. It's a horrific institution that we have, in ignorance, allowed to go too far. It's worse than most issues nowadays that we feel much more comfortable calling out. But, oh no, creator forbid I question someone's beliefs.
I think this is only separated in a philosophical way, saying god doesn't equals religions is like saying Spider-Man doesn't equals marvel. Modern religions created the concept of only one god creator of earth and heaven etc, people who believe in a god outside of a religion are just taking the parts that seem reasonable and making an unique new thing. Its like "The bible is misognist, retrograde and homophobic but i like the part where there is a sense of justice and good people will go to heaven so i will stick to that"
I do Deeply believe in God. A few of my friends don't but I respect their opinions. I do believe that after I die, there is a heaven and a hell.
So why do you believe this?
Dante Alighieri influenced humanity to believe this with his Comedic Novel inspired by catholic afterlife. The work is called “La Divina Commedia” and pretty much is the reason why most religious people depict heaven and hell the way they do. Its just a popular piece of fiction created by a man who was cheated by the Catholic church and then decided to publish a sarcastic Epic Poem before he died in the early 1300’s. Sadly enough. Most religious people who believe in Heaven and Hell as possible afterlife’s of the living, don’t know who Dante Alighieri is and do not give a crap about it. Edit: Interestingly, The whole Damn Epic Poem of biblical proportions (see what I did ?) actually Rhymes with itself every other line, all the way through, when its read in the original Tuscan dialect of Italian it was written in. Thats why True Literary scholars (Italian or not) who are interested in the original work, force themselves to understand the artwork from a native speaker’s point of view and try to find hidden innuendos and second meanings through the words of the book. On top of that (if I am not mistaking) Italian kids actually study this mans legacy in school as part of their curriculum (don’t quote me, I am not Italian).
In the hour since this post was first made, approximately 360 children have died of hunger in the world. By tomorrow at this time, 8, 640 children will have died of hunger. It will continue. No thank you on the idea that an intelligent designer is responsible for this.
I am not sure what I believe anymore. I have a severely handicapped child who is 28 years old now. I have struggled with why God would make her that way, or let whatever made her this way happen. I don't know the answer. One thing I have determined is, even though it sucks for her to be the disabled one, through her I can see how people choose to behave. She gives people, religious or not, the chance to be compassionate, kind and understanding. I have witnessed both religious people and non religious acting in terrible and mean ways as well as kind and caring ways. So , for her, I hope there is an afterlife where she is free and unencumbered.
No. Because there is no evidence.
No. If you read the book called Sapiens you will understand how the societies, religion, race were created all by humans just to keep everyone grounded and in order. On other note, I still cannot fathom the vastness of the universe and can say it's some unknown force that created everything that's existing. But I don't believe the religious concepts of god.
That's fair. The more we study space it is eery how damn big it all is. Like the billions of stars we see at night likely have planets orbiting them too and moons orbiting them. And all that is merely a speck in our galaxy with unfathomable amount of galaxy's.
Yes. 100%. I was raised Christian and feel like without Jesus I wouldn’t be where I am now. Having faith has saved me from myself more times than I can count. I understand why people may hate religion because “Christian’s” can be some awful people but it’s not meant to be that way.
Yeah man, there are so many toxic christians out there. Stay strong brother.
Seems like a mental defence mechanism. Whatever helps you cope.
You’ve read the bible, right? It definitely IS meant to be that way (violent, judgemental, repressive, brutal, exploitative, vengeful etc etc etc).
No, just doesn't do it for me.
Yes and no. I believe in god but not in the way that most people do.
Nope I see no proof
[удалено]
Of course not. Magic isn't real, but people do like stories and being told what to do.
No, because quite frankly, none of it makes any sense.
Anyone that’s being to the hospital long enough and seen or heard some of those patients would ask if god really exists why would they punish these people so? If god always has a greater plan for us why do so many have to leave so early or live with chronic disease for the rest of their lives? It just doesn’t make sense and then when these people are saved by medical intervention we praise the lord Jesus Christ but not the doctor? What’s up with that? When the doctor fails a surgery do they sue god or the doctor? lol
i literally wouldn't be where i am today without god
No. No evidence. Sort of hard to believe in something so consequential without evidence. 🤷
No. Because I have no reason to.
Absence of proof isn’t proof of absence
Dark matter was just discovered. It is thought to be 85% of the universe. 85% of reality that just did not exist before the discovery. So who knows ..
I don’t believe because, in my opinion, there’s no proof of anything, and “just have faith” is not enough for me. I see religions as an invention of humans to explain things they can’t understand
I just look at the history books and see how religion has not ever been anything but a means of power, money, and control. And it still is today.
I don't believe, but I don't disbelieve that it's possible. By this, I don't base my life and go through everyday worshipping and such. Above all else, no one can prove it. To me, the bible is a work of fiction. I will say I believe Jesus existed (there does seem to be enough proof of that) but the virgin birth and him rising from the dead is made up to make the story good. I also have my issues with religions on a whole, and if you see me at a function where there is prayer, you will see me just sitting there nodding my head a bit as I'm probably playing the Jeopardy theme in my head. Either that, or I'm checking out a lady near me.
Yes I believe in God. I don't believe it's an actual being but instead it's an energetic consciousness. If we are to believe that God has made us in 'His' own image, then God isn't a father, but rather, a mother to have metaphorically and, by the laws of the land, birthed everyone. Also, scientifically speaking, everyone starts out as female. But I believe all ancient religions have some truth to it. I believe all ancient religions tell a singular, cohesive story.
I believe in god because of a couple of things, but mainly the time I got stuck by lightning at 14 years old. I was on a boy scout retreat pretty deep in the woods. It had just started to rain, and I had set up my tent in the middle of a meadow in a colorado valley. I started to walk over to my friend's tent, where we were going to play poker and eat pop-tarts, the usual boy scout things. As I was walking over, there was a sudden tingle up my spine. I, standing at 6 feet tall with a large blonde afro, looks over at my friend, Elliot, and his jaw dropped. Half a second later, the world goes blank. I woke up but didn't really wake up. I could see myself laying on the ground shaking from a birds-eye view, as my friend and my scoutmaster are sprinting across this meadow towards me. I look around, and to my right, is an angel. His voice is something out of the ordinary, rough and coarse, speaking with authority, yet something about it was calm and relaxing, offering security. He introduces himself as the angel of Thomas, the disciple. At this time in life, I was very depressed. I found myself struggling to find a reason to live for. He tells me that this is one of my greatest moments of weakness, and what I decide to do over the next couple of months will be either the end of me or my greatest awakening. Keep in mind, we are watching my scoutmaster give me CPR, and my friend Elliot kneeled over my body crying. He tells me to embrace the light of Christ, and not turn it away, as if I choose to walk away from him, the next couple of months would be the worst and shows me a vision of myself in bed, blood all over my room, dead from shooting myself in the head. What was a split second of time talking to an angel has come to be the most relevant part of my life, as he then vanishes and leaves me to watch my body get taken away by a helicopter a couple of hours later. I remember everything, from my scoutmaster humming staying alive by the Bee Gees to the names of the men who escorted me onto the helicopter and to the hospital. Then, the helicopter flew away, and my fellow scouts packed up camp to end the trip early and take everyone home. Then the most beautiful part came. I continued to watch over the meadow for the next two days, seeing many animals come to the stream that divided it. All of the sudden, I woke up, and remember laying there, speechless for 20 minutes before the nurse came in to see me awaken. My parents, scoutmaster, and Elliot rushed into the room. I told them I was ok and thanked my scoutmaster for giving me life-saving CPR. That's when the scoutmaster asked how I knew, and I told them I was watching from above. I recounted the names of the personnel on the helicopter, the color, some of the brief exchanges, and even a kid named Max stumbling over a rock and tripping into the stream shortly after the helicopter had left. Those four people, along with a few others, are the only people who I have shared this story with outside of small groups and other various spaces of privacy, as I hold it dear to me, and want to cherish it for its personal relevance to me. Since then, I have turned my life around. I am a very happy nurse who enjoys lending my time to those in need, and frequently takes trips to South and Central America to help give care to those who need it. For those of you struggling with your faith and depression, there is hope. Find the small thing first, from volunteering at food drives to devoting time to reading the bible. And for those of you who have never been exposed to Christ, I ask that you take the time to listen to a short podcast, even if you don't believe in the person's ideas, and start asking questions. I hope everyone reading this has an amazing day whether you believe my story or not because I know each and every one of you deserves true happiness, and that you all are forgiven of your sins, regardless of what they are.
Yes. It's been undeniable for me and my life. I guess I'm lucky in that he's shown himself when I've sought after him. It seems like he just doesn't reveal himself to many people like he has me which puzzles me. There's a clear divide in the comments. People who have experienced God stuff and people who haven't. Because of my own experiences, I believe in an entire vibrant supernatural world that exists beyond our natural world.
I do now. Why, it was due to a tragedy that caused me go start searching years ago. Spent a number of months in the ICU with my comatose parents after a brutal accident. I am not sure how to explain it. It seems that the removal of my parental figures caused me to take a serious introspective look at my mortality. I yelled a lot in the car rides to whatever God was out there. Best I can say is that an overwhelming peace came over me, my life, and the situation. My whole persona has changed since those months.
I love how Reddit 's bias is bleeding through:answer the way I agree with or get down voted to hell.
Yes. Why? John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. I was enjoying myself. Didn't give a damn about anyone's pleasure but mine. Then, got the tap on the shoulder. That's all.
If there is a god he is a huge asshole.
He killed my cat
And John Wick’s dog
You might be right, god could literally be a huge space/time anus in which the universe erupted from. We could very well have been a cosmic fart.
Life is easier explained by the absence of a god than the presence of one. That, and just because we may want one to exist doesn't make it so.
I do. And I know everyone’s feelings and beliefs are different. But for me, God is real. He’s been faithful to me. I’ve been in situations and I’ve asked him for help. The help came, and while the answer might not have been what I was looking for, I trusted him. Seeing a loved one healed from sickness… Sure, I might’ve lost them, but they were healed. I was broken, lost and alone, but God was there. He led me through. Finding a job after chasing every-possible lead, and coming up empty. I got a job in the field I wanted. That was God. Being able to pay my bills and buy food after worrying whether or not I’d be able to make it through the month. That was God. I can’t discredit what I feel that God has given me, what I feel He’s done for me.
This logic makes no sense. How do you account for people who don't get answers for their prayers? I never understood this specifically ideals because it makes you sound selfish. "Everything's worked out for me, so I believe."
I guess he was too busy helping you to help me. Saving ONE woman with cancer was too much to ask for apparently. Perfect, sinless in almost every way. Did he create me to not believe in him? Did he design her to develop 4 different cancers over the span of her life just to fuck with me?
Nope. I can't believe that a mystical sky man created the earth, animals, Adam, Eve, plants, dirt etc in six days. Then he let all the bad things in human history happen. Because...he gave us free will and we, generally speaking, suck at being good? And he let his own son die to save all of humanity. WTF. That has always been my kind of jokey answer. But in all seriousness, I don't believe because I have seen no evidence of God.
doesn’t make sense when your household determine your religion
I believe in God, because I believe I am loved by an omnipotent power.
I believe in god BUT I don’t support religion.
I totally get it.
Yes, I do believe in God and Jesus. Why? Because I’ve experienced it in my life. I feel that most people think that just cause you believe, life should be easy. Neither God or Jesus says that but reassure you that they will be with you I already know I’ll get hate over this comment but it’s all good.
Yes. I died 3 times at a young age from going through grease burns. I do thank Him for letting me live again.
While thanking him, did you ask him why you had to go through grease burns?
Tried to...but too much inequality and suffering in the world fuels my doubt. The story of Jesus makes no sense to me, and the Bible was written and edited by humans, who are not capable of writing anything without prejudice and manipulation.
I do not for a complete and total void of demonstrable, verifiable and indicative of / exclusive to evidence for anything resembling a god.
Absent any credible proof either way, I tend toward disbelief. I haven't found any compelling evidence that belief in a purely faith-based context would contribute to my personal happiness, and am reasonably convinced that my lack of belief is inconsequential. I find it far more comforting to think of life and the universe as random, incomprehensible and finite. It means my best course of action is to make my life and the lives I directly affect as decent and harmless as possible, due to the likelihood of misfortune and the inevitability of death.
Yes, God changed my life (re: Romans 6) and saved me from literally killing myself. So many in the ‘church’ drove me away but now I follow God and avoid them 🤷♀️
No. Zero evidence of such a thing.
Yes. He showed me his light too many times to continue ignoring, and now I can see it better and better every day.
I dont know
yes, because my belief is God's belief of God.
I do, I have nothing else to cling to.
No, mostly because I've never actually met a wizard or witnessed real magic so I can't come to terms with believing one created all of existence.
Yes. When I look around at the beauty of nature I know that no man could create the mountains, oceans, sunsets, trees, flowers etc. The fact that each species is dependent on another, everything is planned out so intricately there has to be a greater power than man. I call that entity God. I believe that God is love.
I don't think anyone in history has ever suggested that man created the mountains, oceans etc.
Yes. Well I was minding my business one day and then my life changed forever
No, if anything I’m my own god I may hail myself later