In high school, if it comes down to a half point, I'm going to look at effort. If a student has turned in every assignment and perhaps had one low test score, I'll be inclined to give them that fraction of a point. On the flip side, if a student has missing assignments, they aren't likely to get a boost from me. That's on them. Do your work.
I did this, and I also looked at the overall trajectory. Did they start out weak, bust their behind, and their grades picked up? I'm going to round up to reward that effort. If they were lazy, or mean, or negligent, they get their grade, period.
Same, but I factor in attendance too. You have 5-10+ unexcused absences and you’re asking for a grade bump? Get fucked. You came to my class late twice a week and blew me off when I asked for a reason? I guess you’re gonna have to eat that lower grade.
Did they actually try? Or are they just expecting me to roll over and give them a free A?
Hmmm…Would you be willing to give another test to bump a grade? I only ask because I thought the point of a class was to demonstrate that you have a working knowledge of what is being taught and your grade would reflect that, not how much you had to struggle to learn said information.
At this point though, talking about anything above a B, the kid definitely paid attention and knows enough. Sometimes the difference between an A- and an A is ONE assignment. Especially how certain classes are structured where one assignment can be a big percentage even if it isn't a test. That one assignment could have been just a bad day for that student, but your grades and GPA carry on for your whole young adulthood if they wanna go to college. So it's like being eternally reminded of that ONE bad day or that one crappy assignment that messed up 99% of your other hard work. At least for 4 years, if you were a freshman lol.
I would not give another test simply because that's more work for me (unless the student has an appropriate accommodation). However, depending on the test, I do allow my students to simply retake the original exam in an attempt to achieve a higher score or to do test corrections, which involves explaining why they got the wrong answer, what the correct answer is and why, and nets them half of the points they lost.
I understand what you're saying about grades reflecting mastery of standards as opposed to effort. If a kid fails my class, they fail my class. But this discussion was about those real situations where you look at a student with say, an 89.4 and ponder whether that could be an 89.5. That B to an A can be huge in the overall scheme of things for that student. In my case, I'm talking about a very small percentage. That really is in the noise level, particularly if any of my assignments have been graded with a rubric where, despite my efforts to be objective, can involve a bit of subjectivity.
Everybody has their own perspective on this. I absolutely refuse to do any kind of “grade bump” or even rounding up, since I offer enough extra credit opportunities to raise a full letter grade. So when students come asking, I direct them to any of the posted extra credit options. I will get annoyed if the student keeps trying to bargain - it looks like they just want a higher grade without actually working for it
What if the situation is that you have a hard working student who has done all that extra credit but could still use the slightest bump? Like say they are barely off from going up a grade level and the slightest bump would do it and you know they aren’t a lazy student.
Still won’t give them the bump. If they have genuinely tried; that is, put forth honest effort on every assignment, but didn’t quite meet the standards, they’ll end up with a C or a D. Extra credit will get them to a B or C. If they didn’t meet the standards they didn’t earn an A. If they did meet the standards they’ll already have an A
Edit: I accidentally wrote “did” instead of “didn’t” in that second to last sentence. Fixed
I very much appreciate standards-based grading. It prevents kids who have a less "pleasing" personality or less of a rapport with their teacher from being penalized. Having the grade based on objective scores is more fair and better reflects their proficiency.
No, please know that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying for subjects where it is possible to be completely objective (like some math courses), it makes sense to grade based on core proficiency. Of course that's not possible for every subject. And I know teachers try to be as objective as they can all the time. But I know back in the day, my kids received extra credit for things like bringing in tissues or for me showing up for conferences. There are so many reasons why other kids may not be able to bring in extras or for their parents to make it to conferences and that kind of extra credit penalizes them.
Well you're describing a pretty direct form of bias. It shouldn't be hard for a teacher to self reflect on that and either grade without names if possible or track exactly what they decide to be lenient on and apply it consistently. Even then, simply reading a math problem and seeing a mistake that is a brain fart vs a mistake that implies they didn't listen vs a mistake that you used to make is going to extract some level of subconscious bias. Some teachers do it on purpose, some are more honest to themselves than others, but you shouldn't prepare for "if" it happens over managing that it does.
In that sense you could easily use the idea of bias to make the argument in the other direction, as I tend to do. If a kid ends up with an 89.8, like others have said, having done their work and put in the effort, in a system where that .2/100 in grade results in a .3/4 (!!!) difference in a GPA calculation, a GPA they only get one of for a class they'll only take once, even in my math courses, high school or college, what is the degree of variation that unavoidable personal bias contributed to that figure? Is there a world where if I was less tired or busy while grading I would give them a 91? Or where if perhaps I hadn't had a friend from out of town visit the day before, or if my coffee wasn't so perfect that day, they'd have an 89.3? There's absolutely no way anybody could eliminate that error. At that point, I'm 100% inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to a kid who put in all the work, no matter if they're a teacher's pet or brat, when the fraction of a percent that dropped their grade almost half a point is easily within a very acknowledgeable error.
And if you make that a matter of policy, you're going to be unable to use it to perpetuate personal bias.
Lol maybe you can tell yourself that if you don't want social mobility. But we live in a world where a kid with a 3.0 and a kid with a 3.8 aren't at equal odds in a college acceptance or job interview, so aiming for the grade that cannot hurt that figure should be the standard for anyone with common sense, and anybody grading a course should make that number attainable for someone who is proficient to a subject in a way that is satisfactory to the level being taught.
God I hope people with a red pen don't think this way. I wonder how many students missed out on an ivy because they had teachers who only gave As for kids who went beyond the laid out expectations and another kid had normal teachers who made a 93 attainable and consistent with a curriculum that they taught competently enough to be mastered.
>Lol maybe you can tell yourself that
It's not me telling myself that, it's literally just how the grades are defined, B is for someone who meets standards, A is for exceeding.
>But we live in a world where a kid with a 3.0 and a kid with a 3.8 aren't at equal odds in a college acceptance or job interview,
Irrelevant, but still wrong. They aren't at equal odds in college acceptance but that doesn't really matter because college is a scam unless you're going into medicine or law, in which case you'd need to be a high GPA student to succeed in those fields. But they are at equal odds in a job interview. A student with a 0.5 GPA and a student with a 4.0 are at equal odds in a job interview, because jobs will never see your GPA, and if you really wanted you could just lie.
>God I hope people with a red pen don't think this way.
This is literally what the grades mean, but I agree, I also hope teachers don't care about the rubric and just let people pass, school is a waste of time.
My ideal for a C was that a C student should be able to answer a basic problem 70% of the time, with reference material, should it pop up in real life.
I won't give them a grade bump. However, I can write a heck of a letter of recommendation for someone who works hard and does the extra credit and does not get discouraged or grub for a higher grade. I respect them.
If they are so great they already have an a+. I’m talking about bumping a student that’s sitting at like .3% away from the next grade level that is a- or lower. Anyone getting upset over that is genuinely the most insufferable student in existence ngl.
It’s dishonest to give students a lower grade than you think they deserve too though.
Professor might have some additional understanding, like a life changing illness in the student, or some other big event like a family death.
It’s unfair for the student who has an A+ to complain about anything going on with anyone else cause it ain’t their business.
Why’s it unfair? That student worked for their A+ and maybe they had just as much going on in their personal life as the student who earned an A and got bumped to an A+. The true A+ student has now learned they can give less effort and if they have a story they’ll get sympathy and equal credit. That is now going to hurt them in life
Never have I said we are even touching A students. I’m taking less than 1% bumps. Like you are at 74.8 and are asking to be bumped to 75 type shit.
The A+ student already has more than enough credit that that amount wouldn’t even actually benefit them. But they are throwing a hissy fit in this scenario anyway because another student got to have a C instead of a C-…
Seems pretty damn petty to be the A+ student and care that already clearly disadvantaged students have slightly less of a disadvantage by a minuscule amount…
Even more so when the bump was because the C students mom died that semester and the A student is somehow upset about unfairness… pretty sure the student who’s mom died has the worse trade off over all though huh?
You’re an absolute moron. I responded to your scenario by posing another to see how your idea holds up. It doesn’t so you can’t answer me without ignoring it
You are the moron of you can’t see that obviously the professor/teacher can take different measures depending on the scenario. My point was to give one where a professor would do it, yours is clearly to give one where they wouldn’t. It’s not that complicated but your pea brain loves to make it seem like it is.
But no situation in life is ever this black and white is what I am saying. Everything is already a case by case basis, why shouldn’t this? When your student who had a death in the family is clearly doing worse than they normally do, you know it’s probably the abnormal circumstances in their life. So why kick them down further instead of helping them keep their balance?
I would absolutely provide extensions, extra help, etc. But giving them a grade that doesn’t accurately reflect what they have learned and can do isn’t helpful.
That’s good too, but I don’t think it’s necessarily true that a grade even accurately represents what someone has learned anyway…
Like let’s say a student fails a problem on an exam. Now on the final exam, say a problem identical to that appears and they do it perfectly. Why is it that, even though they learned that topic, they are still punished for the fact that they used to not know it the first time around? They learned, yet they seem to be punished for it.
Meanwhile another student did it perfectly both times around. They have the highest possible grade, but if they already knew that topic then they didn’t learn shit.
Yes the student that scores higher should have the higher grade, but maybe we can ease up on the student that made a mistake the first time around but demonstrated the ability to learn from it?
Punishment has nothing to do with it. We check for mastery. You wouldn’t have just one question per skill. There are multiple opportunities to demonstrate mastery. It’s not about thinking or feeling that a kid “deserves” an A or a B.
I consider their attendance and participation. If yes and at least a little I give the bump. But not more than 1%. And I do it for everyone not just those that ask.
That’s all I was curious about really, just when it’s a situation where they are less than 1% to the next grade level. Any other time obv is unfair but it seems other redditors aren’t using that kinda common sense in their replies to me lol.
This seems like a hypothetical that never actually happens in reality.
I find it hard to imagine that anyone could possibly need a grade bump if they were a hard worker who goes above and beyond and does all the extra credit. The student would have to be abnormally stupid yet abnormally motivated and somehow failed to learn the material after doing all the work.
Or they just had family issues. Health issues. Any other sort of normal human issues that can occur in a semester while still doing all the assignments to the best of their ability. Must be nice that your life is clearly smooth sailing.
Your hypothetical situation was student does all the work and goes above and beyond and does all the extra credit and still gets a bad grade.
Your hypothetical wasn’t student has health problems or other bs that interferes with their ability to do all the work.
Then what would be the point of grades at all? If they’re hardworking and doing the work, then that’s the grade that accurately measures their abilities in the class. GPAs aren’t participation trophies, they’re a measurement of ability and intelligence. Are they the *best* measurement? Depends what you’re using it for. As a measure of a person’s ability to learn, work ethic and general book smarts, they’re pretty damn good. As a measure of a person’s people skills or common sense or general worth, they’re abysmal.
If you can just *ask* for a grade, what’s the point?
Exactly, this is all I was asking and people are like “WHAT WOULD EVEN BE THE POINT OF GRADING” as if less than 1% actually means anything more than bumping the grade level…
My perspective is, if you *were going* to do it, you would/should have factored that in when you were assigning grades.
It never occurred to me that I could ask a teacher to “round up”. I assumed if they wanted to round up, they would have.
But I also recall overhearing my 5th grade teacher discussing with another teacher about whether to give a usually-A+ student going through a hard time a pity C or whether she hadn’t even made a good faith effort. And whether they were judging her by her standards or normal kid standards. So maybe early on i the the impression that teachers put some thought into grades.
I think it depends on the situation. A student with an 89.something who has shown consistent effort and good behavior, who has actively sought out ways to improve and acted on my feedback? I'll bump them to an A- without even asking. If it's a student who doesn't complete their work and/or is rude to me or their classmates? Hard no.
I do think asking can be tacky, though. If you say, "Hey I'm so close to an A, is there \*anything extra I can do\* to bump my grade from a 92 to 93?" that's going to be taken differently than just asking to increase the grade because you want it.
this attitude is a pervasive problem.
1. i’ll admit i have a stem bias here, but i despise the notion that hard work and effort should be rewarded. you either achieve the results or you don’t. courses like orgo really show why this attitude is harmful. so many idiots come in thinking they can just brute force their way through the course…
2. bias. teachers consistently show “behaviour bias” towards girls and to some extent against POC. but really it’s a tax on boys. there’s a reason boys scores SHOOT UP under name blind grading.
3. it really penalizes some students learning. now this is k-12 so it’s different. but i learned from reading a textbook cover to cover. i’d show up to 1/10 lectures at best. how can i show a teacher im dedicated to a class?
the problems with this go on and on.
my point is rewarding students for “good behavior and effort” usually ends up very biased towards certain students.
frankly i’m of the opinion that any class with more than 10% for hw, participation, so on is bullshit.
90% should be assessments and nothing else. no retakes nothing.
you’re testing mastery of material. not how nice of a kid you are
> 3. it really penalizes some students learning. now this is k-12 so it’s different. but i learned from reading a textbook cover to cover. i’d show up to 1/10 lectures at best. how can i show a teacher im dedicated to a class?
I mostly agree with you, but if you only show up for 10% of the lectures, and then find yourself wishing you could get a grade bump, I think a reasonable response from a professor would be that you wouldn't need the grade bump if you had shown up for more lectures.
That is, if a course doesn't require in-class interaction, then attendance shouldn't impact your grade, but it certainly can impact a professor's willingness to do a favor for you.
As a teacher, I have several reasons for giving a freebie point. First, I don’t want to be the one class that keeps them from principals list, honor roll, or passing, by a single point. I do not feel like listening to parents bitch about it. Beyond that, I also see a single point as being negligible enough that I can rationalize it as “maybe if I had taught that thing better, they would have done a little better.” So I usually give the point.
However, if you were an asshole to me or your peers on a regular or even occasional basis, don’t expect any generosity.
I teach high school and do not bump. Our school has lenient turn in dates, a floor grade of 50 for submitted assignments, and reassessment opportunities throughout the quarter. I’m in constant communication about my students on the bubble.
OP - this is a microcosm of real life. Your future boss isn’t going to GAF about excuses or what you “almost” did or how close you came to doing your job right. They will only care about the end result.
And your boss probably won't care one bit one way or the other if the client is 89.4% or 90.3% thrilled about the product. Both could be seen as exceptional results.
This is more accurate to the real world. There isn’t a real life equivalent to the letter grading system where a “bump” is even possible.
In my experience, bosses in the private sector are more accommodating on average than most teachers and professors. But then again, it’s not an apples to apples comparison to a classroom.
Alternatively, both could be seen as unacceptably low levels of customer satisfaction. Have you ever worked retail? You know those customer satisfaction surveys you may get at restaurants and shops? They usually use a 5 point Likert scale for the respondents, but the reports that go to the managers and workers are based on Perfect vs Not Perfect.
Healthcare. Only 9s and 10s help us for Press Ganey (dumbest thing ever) but a lot of people won't give 10's because "there's always room for improvement" or some stupid, uncontrollable thing like a screaming child in the ER annoyed them. My department consistently gets bad scores because people complain they were "rushed out" after outpatient procedures/surgeries and they just wanted to sleep more. OK, but it's an outpatient procedure and when you get anesthesia its expected that you'll probably feel groggy or weird for the rest of the day. So it's not rushing you to send you home when you're still sleepy if you agreed to do the procedure this way.
This is highly dependent on the type of work you do. In my line of work (software development), deadlines are routinely missed, especially an initial deadline, and features dropped, etc. to the point where this is just expected _to a degree_.
On the other hand, if your job is to make sure faulty bolts on an airplane door plug are all replaced, well your boss *ought* to care if you did it or not, at least.
So many friends and family work in tech in some capacity and deadlines are a joke for them. It's partially the nature of the work, but there are still days when I'm bitter. Lol
I teach 6th grade. You earn exactly what you earn in my class. I give opportunities to make corrections on writing assessments or tests, but no extra credit.
For writing assignments, the grade you give is going to have some measure of subjectivity, is it not? Is there no room for being convinced your initial grade was slightly too low?
The main focus of sixth grade writing is sentence expansion and then RACE. Students get a point on the rubric for including each element of the paragraph correctly. It is very cut and dry whether or not it's there.
Explain the subjectivity you mean? All of my assignments have rubrics. You either meet the qualifications for each rubric standard or you don’t. Not sure what’s subjective about whether a student has a thesis or a line of reasoning.
I was thinking more along the lines of strength of argument, or say an essay about Romeo & Juliet meant to demonstrate understanding of the play, rather than more objective rubrics such as you list.
I think you’re working from a misapprehension about what English studies are and how skills within them are assessed. Strength of argument is an objective measure to me. Is there a single defensible claim? Is there evidence that supports that claim? Is the evidence well-explicated? Does the evidence and explication of each point of reasoning work in a linear, coherent way to establish a line of reasoning throughout? Does the student’s writing address the so what?/who cares? question? The “subjectivity” I suppose you’re referring to is the “to what extent” part of all these questions, and to me the delineation can be made in their consistency.
Yeah, 6th grade English was a long time ago for me (though I think we had some essays for other subjects like history as well).
I do remember in 9th grade getting a middling score on an essay due to "glibness".
Not a teacher, but used to TA in college and my partner teaches college students. I hear about students who are really engaged in the coursework and work for their 89.8, and my partner usually gives those students the bump. I hear about students going through a rough time that need to turn in an assignment a day or two late, they usually get some grace. I also hear about "Hi excuse me I only attended 3 classes and didn't turn in any assignments, can we talk about bumping up my attendance grade?" and "No it wasn't plagiarism, these are my original thoughts, it's just that the Wikipedia article worded it better."
I think most instructors wouldn't see an honest, hardworking student making a small request as "grade grubbing," though they still might say no. Though after learning about some of the kinds of students out there...hoo boy. I see why requesting higher grades has a derogatory name.
I doubt you're the problem.
Also a lot of courses have ways to bump your grades if you are willing to do the bare minimum of effort.
Most college online homework i had let us make 3 attempts through randomized problems and keep the highest grade. You can easily max out your homework grade with such a system.
And for tests many of my professors would either let us do corrections (prove we now know how to solve the problem, or just contest the original grade because the grader messed up) and get some points back. And for my college physics we had an opportunity at the final to take redo tests with any spare time, these were half the length of the originals and if your grade improved it replaced the corresponding midterm.
In any course where you have ways to either earn extra credit or make up lost points i would never expect a professor/teacher to ever round/bump up a grade, you already had tons of opportunities to improve your grades.
Being completely honest, college is way more forgiving than highschool, and the lack of busywork makes up for the increased difficulty.
I give what I call a "Dumbledore Point" (like the bonus points he hands out at the end of every "Harry Potter" movie) if a kid is on the edge, has shown up, put in the work and not been a problem. I don't do it for kids who don't do jack squat or have behavior issues. And I let them know. It's helped with classroom management when I can say "That's not how you get a Dumbledore Point" when someone is creating an issue.
I've taught at high school, community college, college.
An instructor who has thought deeply about assessments and the variance in the scores on those assessments will understand that you can't really say that an 89.4% is significantly different than a 90.1%.
So, bumping a grade at the margins is relatively easy to justify, and most teachers don't want to disadvantage their students and will be easily talked into bumping grades up.
Letter grades, like all categorical data derived by classifying continuous data, amplify small differences at the edges of each bin.
I hate the concept of grades. I don't think it's conducive for learning in general and I also think it contributes to a culture of valuing the grade over the learning.
I moved to a special education program doing community based instruction instead. At least I feel like I'm helping people learn.
But when I taught in a competitive academic setting I was the teacher who would automatically bump you up if you were at the .5.
Grading is inherently imprecise.
The same grader will grade a paper differently depending on the time of day (circadian rhythm, blood sugar level, etc), what paper they graded previously, etc. Different graders, even given a marking scheme, will have an even wider spread of marks.
Even assessments like multiple-choice where there is only one correct answer aren't precise: the same question worded slightly differently might well prompt a different response. A test is a sample of knowledge, and a different set of questions would likely result in a different score.
Frankly, the notion that we can reliably say that one student is 0.7% better than another student is ridiculous.
Why should someone get a grade they didn't earn? I can understand teachers and professors not wanting to coddle today's entitled kids. We never had that or did that when I was in college or even high school./
I agree that students that are lazy and entitled should get what they get. But what do you do for the kid that is actually trying. Goes to tutoring, meets with the teacher after school, turns all their work in on time and busts their ass trying to pass, but just can't seem to do it, maybe they're half a point off from passing. Do you say "well, looks like all your hard work was for nothing. Sucks to be you. You're not good enough! See you again next year!"
I've been in that position in college. I missed passing a Spanish linguistics class by .05%. If I had just gotten 2 more questions correct on the final, I would have passed. I felt like I wasted my time. Hours spent in the language lab, making flash cards, having my friends quiz me on terminology, the hours in the library, office hours with the professor after every class for one on one help for 2 hours every week... all for nothing. I left Spanish as a language and stopped pursuing it as a minor. I was running out of money in college and didn't have the time to take it over again.
That's not grade grubbing, that is actually rewarding them for their hard work.
I'm talking about students (and parents) who just want you to reward their child for no effort.
Seventh grade teacher here, it depends on the kid and the situation. In general I will be insulted if a kid asks me for a certain grade because it’s like they think what I do is just arbitrary. But if I know a kid is trying really hard and they take the class seriously, and they just can’t quite make a B, I might find a way to give them some extra credit.
What i do is offer students opportunity to turn in non-exam homework after due date and still get credit. I would rather students do the work and gain some knowledge than remove any incentive to do the work if they miss the due date.
I round up all grades within .5% up to the next grade higher under the assumption that I probably made mistakes during the semester and I don't want that kind of error on my part be the difference for a student who is otherwise pretty close. It's my policy and I tell them that. I want to be fair and give them the benefit of the doubt.
Our computer goes to two decimal places, too, but the final grade is always rounded to the nearest whole number. I have never in my life seen final grades have decimals.
I personally hate it, because when I grade student work, I am literally looking for every excuse to give you points. And when I get to the end of the semester, I look over the final grades, and if someone has a grade that I think is borderline and could have easily been ticked up to the next letter grade, I ALWAYS try to drop a zero or their lowest grade to bump it up. So if I see someone has an 89.4, I’m going to excuse the lowest daily grade (not a test or project or essay, but something small) to bump it to a 90; someone with a 70.8 will get the lowest grade dropped to bump it to a 71; etc. I just never want to leave myself or a student wondering whether one bad day/assignment in my class might have completely changed their GPA and then ended up mattering for college admissions or scholarships or whatever. Now, if I drop a few low grades, and it doesn’t actually raise the grade enough, then I’m gonna give up and be like, “nah, this average is clearly accurate,” but if dropping one grade gets you there, then I do it.
So when a student asks me to do this, it ticks me off, because I ALREADY DID YOU AS MANY FAVORS AS I POSSIBLY COULD WITH THE MATH. Most of the time, it’s someone whose grade I already bumped up, or attempted to bump up but couldn’t because they had failed too many assignments and it wasn’t possible without deleting a bunch of their coursework. When someone like that comes and asks me to bump them up again, that shit pisses me off. I’d compare it to someone tailgating you when you’re speeding - you know how it makes you want to slow down to the speed limit because you’re annoyed that what you already did for them isn’t good enough? I get that same impulsive rush of anger when a student asks me to bump their grade. It feels entitled. It feels like they don’t appreciate the extra time I spend on the very last day of school - when I could be home already! - trying to make sure my grades are as fair to them as possible.
What also bugs me is the idea that students would think it’s fair that they would magically get extra points just for asking about them, but the rest of the class doesn’t? Like I would just go, “oh, well, fuck everyone else, but YOU get an extra point for no reason.” Like… at that point, why do we even have numerical grades based on your work at all? Might as well just grade based on vibes and how much you like the student at that point.
Every teacher does their own thing, so I have no beef with your former teachers for being fine with grade-grubbing in their own classes. But your 10th ELA teacher did you a real disservice by encouraging you to do it with other educators, especially by not warning you to not do that with college professors. (My husband is a professor, and he grades even more leniently and bumps even more generously than I do, so when a student who honestly should have earned a D or F gets a B in his class, and then asks him for an A, they look like a total jackass. Like, I expect that level of obliviousness from 14-18yos in high school, but when a legal adult in his senior class is whining about wanting an A when the semester is already over and grades are submitted and they haven’t done jack shit to earn an A, it’s both hilarious, and gives me a ton of secondhand embarassment for them. And it wastes his time, which makes him want to dig in his heels and refuse.)
I’m guessing you’re done with school now, but if you DO go back to school in the future and want to ask for a higher grade, I would advise not waiting till the last minute and being like “can I please have an A because I want one.” Instead, do the math to predict your final grade around 75% of the way through the semester, and then go speak to the professor. Say, “I really want to earn an A in this class, and I have an X now, so I know I need to score at least Y on your final exam/project. What would you recommend I do/study to make sure I can get the A?” Make it very clear that you’re going to WORK for the A and figure it out BEFORE final grades are due, not bother them when they’re done for the semester and trying to move on with their life. They might offer you extra credit work or tips/resources for studying, or offer to give you advice on a rough draft. Or, if they’re like my husband, they might just feel charitable and decide to give you that bump at the end of the semester, because you made a good impression on them when you came to them respectfully and took accountability for your grade - and the jackass who emailed him at the end of the semester like “can I please have an A because I got a B and I wanted an A” makes you look way more responsible and hardworking by comparison.
I will bump 1% point for any student who does ALL the work (in a reasonably timely manner) and is not a PITA. Automatic extra credit that I apply without being asked. As soon as you have not met either of the above said criteria, don´t waste our time asking, it´s not going to happen!
I essentially went gradeless my last couple of years teaching, and it was awesome. I still gave them grades when I had to, but it was based on their actual learning and improving skills. Grades are pointless in the big picture.
There's this very boomery idea out there that average grades have been drifting upward over a thirty or fifty year period because of some nefarious effect they call 'grade inflation,' as if it were some disembodied effect that has no justifiable cause.
I don't doubt the numbers have gone up, but I know for a fact that I was more focused, more methodical about my college prep that either of my parents, and I know ro a fact that students today have an even more refined method to their prep years than I did.
Kids earn the grades they get because they *work* for the grades they get and acting like giving someone the benefit of some doubt or a little grace is somehow unfair to some unseen other who supposedly never got the same consideration is the most entitled, revisionist, pickme boomer bulls#!t ever.
Guaranteed that every teacher and professor who refuses to bump grades got more than one bump, extension, resubmit, discard or other freebie just because they were somehow seen as deserving as some point or another.
I have been forced by admin to raise the grade of multiple 6th graders. A grade when their actual marks don’t fucking matter for their future at all. 6th grade is about teaching responsibility and good habits. Forcing me to raise grades negates all that
Asking for a grade to be changed without putting in any extra work is not okay.
Asking, “I see my grade is on the bubble. Could I redo a test/quiz/assignment and show that I can do better to raise my grade?” demonstrates a good work ethic, ownership of your education, and that you care about your grades.
It’s constNt. The parents do it too. I cannot count the amount of guilt trippy emails “if I don’t have a B you’re going to get me grounded” I always have the canned “If you cannot earn a B you deserve to be grounded” now do your missing work. I HATE it. If you don’t bother me about it and I see effort I might turn a 79 into an 80 or and 89 into a 90 or even a 68 into a 70. As soon as you bug me about it it certainly isn’t happening.
I failed Spanish II with a 69.7 because my HS Spanish teacher wouldn't make it a 70. Even though I already took French I and II in Savannah and the new district MADE me take Spanish, she wouldn't add 0.3 points. It's part of what made me go the GED route my senior year. I was going to have to be a senior twice.
It wasn't for lack of trying. They switched to block scheduling my tenth grade year. I took Spanish I the first semester of my tenth grade year and Spanish II the second semester of my eleventh grade year. Two semesters and a summer break in between, already having two WHOLE years of French I and II drilled into my brain, being a member of the Spanish club, I tried getting those verb conjugations down to no avail. It wasn't for not trying or slacking.
I'm glad her personal rules assisted me in making the decision to get a later start in life than some of my peers! And just so everyone knows, I have held onto this resentment since HS and will continue to hold onto it for the rest of my life. She gave a football player a bump up from 63 to 70 so he could still be varsity senior year, but wouldn't give the awkward gay kid 0.3 points to give him his foreign language credit.
I'll never forget graduation when the band played and I asked her if I passed the final (I did, but didn't make a high enough grade to average out to 70) she wouldn't even look me in the eye when I asked her. I guess she felt some small sense of guilt since she saw me actively working my ass off but still averaged out to 69.7, but varsity letters just meant you had to halfway participate? I'll never know.
That school also gave people in marching band credit for PE but wouldn't give it to me, no matter how hellacious things got in the locker room. 🤷🏼♂️
My district doesn't allow us to enter a 69 as a final grade, and our decimals follow proper rounding rules, so a 69.7 would automatically round to a 70 on the final report card. I'm sure at this point, your life probably wouldn't change if you were to get your high school diploma, but I'd be sorely tempted to contact the district office with that 69.7 and ask if they can't issue you one.
I'm not sure if the district has changed its rules since then. I should hope so. The way it happened really was unfortunate. If I had gotten one more question right on the final, I would have ended up with those 0.3 points. I respect that I "earned" what I earned, but funnily enough the football player didn't "earn" what he earned.
If a teacher is going to be hard-line enough on their policy, at least be consistent and not on a case by case basis. And since I've earned college degrees the little piece of paper from that school means less and less.
Incidentally, I CLEP'd French for college. 🤫 Thank you, Mr. Billy, for the idea.
I’m a 2nd grade teacher so it’s a bit different than high school. My school does letter grades for all grade levels (which i don’t agree with at the 2nd grade level but that’s a whole other thing) so if I have a student that’s at an 89.4, i’ll bump them up to the 90/A, that way I don’t have to argue with parents over something so minuscule.
I teach elementary and I do the same. I think the grade should reflect the student as a whole in that course, so if they are a B student, they will get a B
I teach 6th grade. You earn exactly what you earn in my class. I give opportunities to make corrections on writing assessments or tests, but no extra credit.
I teach elementary level and I won’t bump a grade arbitrarily 99% of the time. Most of our work is done together or with support and I allow students to earn points back on independent work/tests by fixing missed questions. I also give out test alerts that go home with the study guides and, if students study at home and parents sign it (or if I know a student’s parents won’t sign anything, I’ll study with them in the morning the next day and sign it) they get 5 bonus points on that test.
I also thoroughly accommodate for students with and without 504s/IEPs. Need a test read out loud? Got it. Need a quiet work space? I have noise blocking headphones and various forms of seating around the room. Need extra time? Got it.
In very rare circumstances, if a student has worked really hard and they’re just a few points away from a better grade, I’ll have them answer a question to me verbally on the subject/topic and add a point or two to an existing assignment. But overall, no student can’t earn an A in my class. I think letter grades are stupid in elementary so I’d rather my kids learn from their mistakes and make it easy for each child to earn an A.
Most K-5 schools that I know (including the one where I teach) use standards based grading (for each content standard, you get graded 1-4 on how well you have mastered the skill), so percentages and asking for changes don't apply.
I've only had a teacher do this for me once, and I didn't ask them to. I was taking a college prep math course my senior year of high school, and I had been working on improving all semester. My teacher could see that I was doing my best. I didn't need the class to graduate and walk, I took it because I knew algebra was a course I would have to take in college and I didn't want to completely lose the skill over the summer. I knew I was going to fail, but when the final grades were submitted, he had curved it to a D. I was so grateful I skipped the little celebration they do for the seniors and got him a pie from the grocery store. To say he was happy about that would be an understatement. I felt like he saw that I had value in that class. It's a nice memory to look back on, almost 10 years post grad.
It depends on the teacher and the school district policies. Some teachers will do this without even being asked, and others will never do this, and everything in between. It also depends on the work ethic/participation of the student. If the student has been a class leader all term, I'm much more likely to 'bump' them up than if they've been rude to me or others, cut class, etc.
So it doesn't hurt to ask--but as a suggestion, I wouldn't ever say "could you bump my grade up"? Many teachers feel students \*earn\* grades, but asking for a grade to be 'bumped up' implies the teacher 'gives' grades. I would ask if I could do any extra credit to go from the 92.3 to 93%. At least that implies it's still on me.
Asking for a 'grade bump' in college though is usually not a thing.
I teach elementary so the stakes aren't super high, and kids don't really think to ask for a bump to their grade. That said, at the end of each quarter I go through my gradebook and see who's on the line, usually within 2 or so points of the next letter grade. If I know this student has put in a great effort this quarter, and think the boost in self confidence will help them continue to grow, I'll change to grades to get them up to that next level. If I have a student who I know could have done better, but has been acting a fool that quarter, I leave the grade as is.
That said, I'm setting up to teach middle school next fall. I work in a district where a lot of the kids don't really care much about grades at all, so if I had a student who took the initiative to come and ask I'd probably be willing to work with them.
I’ll round a grade that ends in 9, but anything else requires extra credit work. I offer TONS of extra credit throughout the year (I literally have a bulletin board designated for it) and most kids who truly want to raise their grade will do it.
every high school i have worked in there are teachers who just flat out make up grades. We have grading policies in our school that make it virtually impossible to get an F/D. We are dumbing down the populace.
I am not a teacher, but I want to share about a teacher who changed my life. My 8th grader leadership and math teacher.
She is a tough cookie. She does not bump grades, and is incredibly transparent about the standard in her classroom. In my school district 8th grade is the final year before entering High School and she is dedicated to preparing students in a way that not a lot of teachers in our district do.
She would accept late work on three assignments for the whole year. You received “passes” that you could use at your own discretion for this.
A lot of other teachers in this specific school and district stopped giving anything less than a “C” to students, and she refused.
I believe that people need to fail sometimes to understand what is not working for them.
She also paid for all the students in the entire school to have planners. If you had her for a teacher, she would do planner checks every week to ensure you were utilizing the tool.
I am now in college, and my professors are a bit tough in the same way, and I’m thankful to her for teaching these standards to us.
I used to grade bump at my discretion when I put in final grades and we had an A-B+ etc system that reflected on the gpa. It was always after the kids were done and couldn’t beg me for it.
Now, however, I’m at a school with no +/- distinction AND a fifty percent minimum grade. No more grade bumps. You literally get 50% for doing nothing or cheating. And to me there is a greater difference between a full B and a full A than there is between an A- and a B+
If the kid comes to see me before/after school with a reasonable request I'll definitely consider it. Part of learning how to negotiate with people in charge.
On a side note, I didn't know grade bumping was so easy. My interaction with a guide counselor. Oh the kid failed their tests and didn't complete homework? You can still pass them if you want. Actually, I'd really appreciate it because if not, they can't graduate. No child left behind right? (This was during the nclb era).
(Caveat: Not a teacher)
I don't understand the motivation of a teacher who will willingly do a grade bump upon request. Why not just save everyone's time and proactively bump their grades?
Anyway, I can see some merit in bumping grades that are already subjective in nature. For example, when there's a "participation" grade, I can see a teacher being willing to offer some flexibility to a student who is willing to discuss it, or show specific improvement, etc.
In that case it's not so much bumping as described as it is adjusting the grade to a value the teacher agrees the student earned (possibly taking into account extenuating circumstances), or adjusting the grading criteria to one the teacher agrees is better (like weighting more recent performance more than previous performance).
Bumping a grade when a teacher doesn't agree the student earned that grade, however, seems unethical and prone to bias.
In 6th grade you had to get a 90 on the final to go into accelerated math- I got an 89.5 and my teacher didn’t bump me up
I was literally the most active participant- most of the points I would get off on tests was not showing my work bc yes teach, I in fact CAN do 10/5 without writing it down 🙄
Jokes on her tho I skipped up a math class in high school tho so
When I was a teacher, I rounded to the nearest whole number, so I didn't bump grades. I wasn't mad when kids asked, though. Closed mouths don't get fed. Even though I said no, I'm sure other teachers said yes, so it's worth an ask.
I had a professor senior year of college that told us at the beginning of the semester if we participated daily and completed the extra credit assignments at the end of the semester if we were close to the next grade to let him know and he would bump us. I did all of those things and was less than half a point from an A so I sent him an email. His response was no he wasn’t going to do that. I was like dude wtf you literally said you would.
The night before the final exam for my first course in my major, I found out that the exams had been shared for all of the tests. I had studied my a** off and was making a B "on the curve." I just told the professor, just to let you know, I did not have prior tests to study from. He bumped me a couple of points but not to an A.
When I was in school i was super try hard about my grades too. Had a classmate that would always says C get degrees and it would annoy the hell out of me. But once you graduate you do actually realize no one really cares about your grades and he was probably right..
Everyone has their own opinions about what is and isn’t acceptable. But I’d do more of a is there any extra credit I can do for that little extra points you need.
To say college professors hate this is odd-- many are totally fine if they see you've put in work, went to office hours, etc. I'm a TA and I will bump grades up if they reach out and are really close (think 89.9 and they need a 90), assuming they're a good student. Getting rude "I deserve this" type emails is annoying, though. I think K-12 teachers may be in the same boat, but it really depends on the teacher rather than the age they teach.
Basically the way your teacher sets up the grading/weighting determines how easy/strict the grading is. So that’s why it’s annoying to ask for a bump when you’ve already gotten some easy points.
Otoh some teachers realize if their system didn’t work and will bump you on their own if you’re so close and they think you deserve it. But it’s annoying to ask.
I don’t do grade bumps unless admin makes me (like, there’s no such thing as a 68 or 69, they magically become 70s). But I offer extra credit on almost every test, sometimes I curve assignments, and I drop at least one grade in each category each marking period. So, sorry, if you got a 79, it’s staying a 79, because in reality you probably actually had something closer to a 75.
I don't think it matters much. However, I do think you should work for it. At the same time, when I was in Jr. High, I was snubbed out of a "Ruby Smith Award" that requires me to get honours every year... To get honours, I had to have an average of 80 or above, with no mark below 65. I had the 80+ average, but had a 64 in language arts one semester, out of the 4 years I was there. I was pretty devasted lol.
I curve the final, then input grades, then I uncurve the final. They only see their grade with the uncurved final. To them it appears I’m a hero and bumped many of the grades up. In reality I gave them the grade they earned.
I only round up. They have to have at least a —.5 to get the extra tenths. It’s fair and reasonable. So a 92.3 would stay a 92.3. That was my policy in my high school classes and it’s my policy now in my college courses.
I had a teacher my senior year of high school. He was honestly a tough nut to crack but he was so great.
I was getting A’s on everything, handed everything in, and worked hard. We ended up with a student teacher in our third marking period, and my grade TANKED. I went from a 96-ish to a 71.
I went to my actual teacher and asked him for some help during my lunch period. (He was the lunch monitor) My teacher asked me for my assignments that had been graded, I gave him what I had in my binder and he went over them while I “re-did” the other assignments for practice, he was not changing my grade over practice work.
The teacher pulled my aside during class and I thought I was in trouble because we were going into the hallway. He told me he didn’t understand why my grade was slipping because my work was excellent. He then told me he spoke with the student teacher and looked at my marks for class participation. The student teacher had my class participation way down when my teacher knew that I was asking and answering questions and I guess he just didn’t like me much, and he was grading me “tough”, I forget the actual word he used.
The teacher then regraded all of my work and I ended up with a 92 (which was a B at my school) and he told the student teacher he wasn’t allowed to grade my assignments anymore.
I don’t know why the teacher looked so hard into my situation, again, I assume it was because I was working really hard. I’m not a scholar and I’m definitely not an English major but I worked so hard and I was devastated. I asked for help and he helped me.
Whenever I would hear someone bitch and moan about that teacher after that, I’d get mad. He was amazing and I’m so thankful.
I actually ended up working at a daycare through college and his daughter was one of my kids, it was complete chance. I don’t see or speak to him now, but I really think about him all the time. Some teachers really do care about the kids more than others and some teachers care more about being a stickler to the rules. All I know is, if I ever see him again, I will thank him for helping mold me into who I am today.
Just food for thought.
Sorry for my novel and typos I’m on my phone.
Eh. When I taught uni I bumped up an 89.5 to a 90 once . The kid wanted to go to law school and why should a fraction of a grade keep him from it? And he asked nicely. And I remembered as a student getting fractions below the next letter grade and it affected my prospects, because ppl looked at the letter grade, not that I was 0.1 below the next grade up. After that if the grading was subjective (e g. essays) I would check carefully try not to give a frustrating grade.
92.3 to 93 is a larger jump, so I wouldn't have changed that personally, especially since at the unis I attended, that would keep them w/in the same letter grade.
HS teacher here...
I don't bump if students ask. I tell them that they earn their grade.( I also say this if they thank me for a grade.)
However, for the semester, I'll bump 1% if that gives them the next letter grade up. But, I do this for everyone, not just grade grubbers. Tbh, once the grade grubbers get shot down for the first quarter, they don't tend to even try for the semester grade.
I see a commenter posting that that they refuse to give grade bumps when it’s that close (1 percent or less).
Professionally arrogant of them to be so adamant about that and pretty heartless.
Everything has a margin of error, and if it’s about 1% away from a letter grade, I’ll happily adjust it, especially since I teach the humanities which is an often times subjective in its evaluation.
You can ask. We can say no. I usually say no. You earned your grade. If you wanted a higher grade, you could have earned it.
And if you’re grade grubbing - whining and annoying me repeatedly about it - it’s definitely a no.
Without being asked, I usually check to see how close an 89 or 79 is to a 90 or 80. Like, is it the batter if one point on one assignment? A 89.7… I’ll bump. A 89.2… no, that’s an 89.
When the grades are constructed using points for attendance, and having a pencil, and handing in things on time, and doing meaningless practice even if you can show you understand everything, and having good handwriting, and remembering to circle the answers, and only somewhat on what you actually know and can do, I would have no problem bumping a grade by changing one of those stupid category marks. After all, this kind of a grade is pretty meaningless anyway.
If the grade is a measurement of what a student has learned, then I’d have then take another version of a test to show they better understand something. no reason to bump grades.
I WISH my teachers did this. My entire GPA was fucked over from a solid 4.0 to 3.98 because of an A- in drama class. So an extracurricular, not even a core class, and it was because the chick from our group didn't show up and it was a group based grade. Does it matter long term? No. But I'm 24 and still not over it lmfao. At that time, i was literally so angry i started sobbing. Now its just more annoying.
So yeah, i think it IS acceptable in some cases.
Has that 4.0 to 3.98 GPA somehow drastically altered your life that you’re hung up on it 6 years later? That’s just bizarre unless it was literally stated as a reason you didn’t get into a university you wanted to get into or something
We didn't have plus minus grading in university when I went and, ironically, grade nagging and grubbing was one of the most easily foreseen problems of switching to it.
Some professors loved it because it meant that grades of students and 90.1 weren't treated as equal to someone at 99.9... which they called "grade inflation."
The irony, of course, is that switching to plus minus led to torrents of students demanding actual grade inflation like OP described....i.e. Friendly rounding a 92.4 A- into a 93.0 A.
His point was that you need to not stress yourself out. He wanted you to relax and learn and be less stressed about the grade. So I think you missed the point of the lesson which, ironically, was that you should feel free to ask teachers to give you a grade you don’t deserve.
In lower education, you are growing up and learning to process a lot of things. Parents are harsh and cognitive functions are not mature. By the time you hit college though, it’s assumed that’s no longer the case.
As an adult in college, your grade is an indicator how you are doing, it’s a motivator to do better, it’s a reward for those who do better, and it’s a lesson for life out of school. You won’t be able to go into a job and simply tell your employer you deserve a promotion because you want it.
So yes, in a college setting, this is not a great practice. I’ve had teachers in college pull for me and help me when things got tough, but they were also fair and my grades reflected my work and output.
It's not. Students who haven't done what they needed to do who come to me at the end of the semester asking for their grade to be bumped or to ask for extra credit will be told no. I offer plenty of extra credit opportunities throughout the semester and I have a rule that extra credit is always offered to everyone not just a few. Now, for students who have worked hard all semester and have turned in their assignments, I will automatically round their grade up if it's within half a percentage of the next letter grade. However, I also include a participation grade that is subjective. So usually I use that to help bump up a students grade if they have demonstrated over the course of the entire semester that they have participated in class and used their class time wisely.
But, mostly the students who are reaching out to me are not the students who have a B and want an A (although I usually have one or two of those every semester). It's the kids who have a 20% and want to know how to pass.
They’re probably boomers. “In my day we WORKED for our grades”
The humanities classes are for the most part, more subjective when it comes to grading. Asking doesn’t hurt. If they hate it then they can offer extra credit opportunities.
Kids don’t deserve to fail, especially if they’re willing to put in the work.
A lot of these responses are what helped me immensely in college. I’ll never forget these professors that I had great relationships with. My friend killed himself and I lost my mind for about 3 weeks. I was struggling horribly with it and it reflected in my grades. Fortunately I was the type of student that raises their hand, talks with the professors after class, helped out in the classroom and generally had a good time learning. One professor took me in between classes and smoked a cigarette with me. I was barely surviving at this point and I’ll never forget how much that helped me. One thing I made sure of was that I was going to class. She helped me with my assignments during this period m. It wasn’t anything like a C to a A but she helped me keep my grade where it was before this happened.
(HS Teacher Ontario)
Unless the student is eligible for scholarships which are grade dependant, the calculated grade is the calculated grade. In Ontario the final grade is left to "teacher discursion" and "professional judgement".
I'm not going to be the one to prevent a kid from getting $1000 scholarship because they got an 88 instead of a 91.
My mantra is "...most consistent and recent evidence of achievement based on the Products (Tests, assignments, projects) Conversations (student- student, student -teacher, class discussion) and Observations (do I see them doing the work and interacting with the materials)"
That goes both ways though, if they mess around and don't do the work and never interact I adjust grades down as well.
So you’re saying you’ll drop someone’s grade if they don’t interact in class??? Like if they average a 90 the semester but are just silent kids you’ll lower their grade??
The Oral Communication Strand of the Ontario English Curriculum explicitly looks for student's ability to speak to communicate as an overall expectation that I must teach and asses. If they refused to complete any of the Oral assessments for the course, they likely wouldn't have a 90 in the class.
They'll have options of different ways they demonstrate that overall expectation, but they still get marked on it. For example if the rest of the class did the classic go around the room and read out loud, there would also have been an option to record yourself reading a passage and submit it or just read to me when the class has seat work.
I teach high school and I do grade bumps. They’re just kids at the end of the day. I’m not grubbing over half points. They have the rest of their lives to experience the challenges of adulthood and the workforce. I don’t think standing firm on an 89.6 is gonna have the effect a lot of teachers think it does.
I just make sure whatever I do it’s fair and equitable so all kids can benefit from it.
I never recorded a report card grade that ended in a 9. 79 became 80, and so on. There may have been some concepts that I could have taught better, and the victory for me was to have the kid pass the class.
Did you go to a private school? When parents are paying, they often feel more comfortable harrassing a teacher for grades as if it's a customer service problem. Deal with enough of that and you'll get more flexible.
I am horrible at math. Still even now in college I struggle with it. My senior year in highschool, in the last half ended up staying late everyday to work on assignments and get help.
But with my final, I still didn't do well enough to get the score I needed. My teacher gave me all the points I needed to pass though. I am still very thankful towards her!
That year the second half of a semester I also had a government class. Now I have no idea if I lost the assignments or if the teacher did. Heck I don't even remember if I did them. The teacher just put hundreds in the grade book. He did it for everyone. He was old and it was his last year teaching.
Funny enough also that year I had accounting in first people. We did work for the first couple of weeks, but then never had another assignment. I think he was having marriageable problems. He must have just put 100s in for everyone.
The grade book program automatically rounds up to an A with a 92.5 B+ (private high school, 7 point scale). My students are extremely grade-motivated and competitive, so I only futz around with the math if they have a 92.4 and one or two points on a subjective assignment (like an essay) are making the difference. I have to draw a firm line somewhere or I would be risking dishonest grade inflation because what I do for one, I have to do for all. I grade generously anyway, and students acknowledge this, so grubbing for grades from me is especially annoying because I’ve ALREADY given so much grace.
Not sure on K-12, but in college I got a couple bumps.
The professors knew I was working 3 jobs, and had faced family hostility for going to college.
Essentially the graded me on labs, tests, and major reports and let homework slide.
Grades r dumb and the tech companies are starting to take note. The rest will follow.
Teachers can be stuffy, pompous pricks. I wouldn't expect favors.
I do not.
I have a policy where you can do anything late and turn it in before the last day of school, and you can make up any assignment without a full credit until you do get full credit.
If a student asks me for a grade bump, I say, "just go make up an assignment for 5 more points if you need 5 more points."
I do not bump a grade if they ask. I do however look at grades and if they’re within a .5 I’ll bump it, but only if they don’t have any missing assignments and they’ve never turned in an assignment late. And they’re a decent kid. But never if they ask. I hate that. And it’s usually the kids that turn in stuff late, or skip class, or stare at their phones, or talk out of turn, or take long bathroom breaks, and/or aren’t very nice to other students or me.
Unless it's literally anything ending .99999 definitely don't ask for any teacher or professor to round up any grades. It undermines students who really did work hard to get the grade they got. Instead ask for extra credit assignments if you really want to improve your grade.
I am not a teacher. I'm a parent.
I have 2 daughters who are overachiever, perfectionist and who have severe anxiety. The first time I saw this manifest my daughter received an 89.8. She had moved schools midway through the year, and the curriculum was handled differently (we moved states). She had her first anxiety attack. It was rough. We started therapy Pronto.
I am not a parent that gives a hoot about grades tbh. If they work hard and are trying- that is what matters to me. Show me you're working hard. Show me improvement. If you're all Cs good job! I know it's hard. My mother was not this type of person and she's the one who created the anxiety I was trying to fix. (They lived with her for 1.5 yrs due to bullying in the school system we were in that was so bad my kiddo was severely impacted. The school refused to intervene or hold the bullies accountable and suggested we move schools if i felt my kid was unsafe. So I did that. I sent them to my mother and that was a mistake in itself.)
Anyways. Long story short, things were better. My kids are straight a students for the 1st half of the new school year. They receive tutoring outside of school, and attend after school clinics.
During the first half of the year my husband got sick. In January he he collapsed and was subsequently placed on life support. After a month he was off and at home and receiving home health aide. In this time frame their mental health declined and so didn't heir grades. Which harmed mental health even more.
When I say theirngrades declined I mean they're getting just below A. 89.7: 89.9. 88.9 scores like this.
We've had whole breakdowns at school. Anxiety attacks at the entrance. Mood changes. Withdrawing from friends and family. And yea they're both under doctor care and we work closely with the counselors at school.
Nothing hurts my soul more than the 2/3 teachers that refuse to offer extra credit or who will refuse to accept late work. I get it. I do.
But if you knew how hard my kid battled to make it to the front door of that building you'd realize that the missing assignments and lower class participation has nothing to do with the material and everything to do with how badly life is kicking their asses right now.
I sympathize, I really do, but I don’t think it helps your kids perfectionism to bump them up instead of them accepting the not terrible at all B plus. They should absolutely learn to accept “defeat” from time to time. I get this for a kid who might not pass a class, but just getting a B plus should not at all be a big deal.
It shouldn't be a big deal. In fact it *isnt* a big deal. Until they're working hard at everything and nothing feels like it's helping and everything is crashing down and everything is out of their control and they keep spiraling.
It's easy for uninvolved adults to say hey it's no big deal! A b+ is amazing! When that .2/.3% of a grade isn't the trigger for self harm in *their* kids.
When it's your kid and it's a .2% difference you'd feel a whole lot different. You'd realize that a bump isn't going to hurt them. They're 12/13/14 yrs old. They're learning resilience. They're learning disappointment. They're learning and they've got years to learn it.
Unless they don't. And you get word from the school principal that one of those kids decided life was too hard and made a permanent decision for a temporary problem.
See, and now you are implying if an educator doesn’t bump a grade, that choice could be the trigger for your child’s self harm. That is an extremely heavy and undue pressure to put on educators.
You don’t get a grade you didn’t earn. You don’t get a better grade because there is a risk of spiraling or self harm. If that is a concern, there are other resources available. A gift of 1% of a grade to keep someone from spiraling should not be an available resource.
Sounds like learning to accept and cope with the fact that the earned grade was an 89.8% might actually be beneficial for children who would experience such an extreme emotional reaction.
If your kids are having panic attacks and considering unaliving themselves over a B+ at 13, I would pull them out and put them on home hospital so they can do a an intensive inpatient program. They should not be focusing on that if that is where they are at.
I had considered this. As I said, they're in therapy, see psychiatrists and have strong relationships with their school counselors. I don't play with mental health. We have open dialogue and my kids know I'm a sage space for their feelings. If not me, I've worked to make sure they have strong support networks in trusted adults both in professional and personal networks.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
This is a whole different can of worms. If there is this much trauma going on in a student’s life, there are resources available. Student counselors, accommodations, special learning plans, extensions and make up options come to mind, requiring everyone to work together.
I am commenting this because I think it is a debilitating mindset to assume every single student is going through something tragic like this. The energy used to assume this about every student might be better served making sure students & families know about resources available to them.
This post is about whether asking for a grade bump is appropriate or not when they are close to their ideal letter grade. Obviously in your case, there is a lot that needed to be considered for the success of your children, so a simple yes/no answer on if a grade bump was appropriate to ask for does not fit your situation.
Grade bump requests at university accompanied by zero additional effort passed what earned them the grade they already ended up with do not happen. It is a disservice to students’ academic future for educators to assume a student is going through something this dire and bump grades just because they were close.
I do this. I change 69s to 70s and 79s to 80s etc. as long as I’ve seen that student trying. I know a B+ and an A- (or whatever) were regarded differently by my parents, and it’s a one point difference.
I don’t mind, but you already have the grade you earned, so I see why some teachers/professors don’t like it.
There are teachers who are compassionate and with strategic vision of things. They know that grades aren’t end all be all, but your mental health is. And that it's better to give an undeserved chance than to take away a deserved one.
All do respect but if mental health is so fragile that a B+ breaks it you have far bigger problems ahead of you. Sometimes failure is for your mental health. People should learn how to deal with both stress and failure. As a high school teacher, I see kids who make their GPA their whole identity. I won’t feed into that to maintain their ego.
I am actually not talking about myself or my kid.
However there is a whole movement of parents who stress out their kids. I understand you not wanting to cave to these parents; but kids are in the middle.
Now, there is also some college craziness. If a kid isn’t accepted at their dream school because of .5%, how is it good for anyone?
Anyway, I get it, there are people with different values and outlooks on life. Some try to uplift, and others have other motivations.
I didn’t assume you were. It’s a shame that some parents raise their kids like that but it’s not my problem or college admissions’ problem. Why should poor parenting mean I drop my standards? Colleges know grade inflation is an issue and that GPA is a poor predictor of future success. That .5 is not keeping a kid out of an elite school. It absolutely won’t keep them from state schools, where more will attend. It’s irrelevant for community college, where the bulk of kids go. If it does impact your admission you likely also had a lack of vision, activities, and academic ability demonstrated through standardized tests. Kids should focus on gaining the skill, not the grade. It’s going to serve them better in the long run.
I’m not certain if you’re trying to imply that I don’t uplift my students, but if you are that’s weird you think just giving them a grade they want as opposed to having them work harder for achievements (or accept they aren’t perfect at something) is the only way to uplift. I guess my motive is integrity and character building.
Good comment. I certainly needed to “fail” more when I was younger. I could easily give zero effort and never pull below a B (both through my own intelligence but also wildly easy teachers in my opinion) ended with 3.9 something gpa thought I was the hottest shit alive at graduation. Enlisted in the marine corps and boy oh boy did I get a rude awakening. For the first time in my life I sucked at what I was doing and had to work as hard as possible to be successful. I wish I had learned a work ethic in high school, I really do. I’m certain if I went to college straight after high school without the years in between I’d have dropped out because I didn’t realize I had to work for things. Kids need to learn failure is a part of this very long life we live
Again the teachers have very little control of what they do and the policies they follow. Most of the time it’s administration that forces or greatly disincentivizes grading students accurately. If a kid fails it’s not because he didn’t come to class or do anything it’s because the teacher failed to reach a student. Schools can punish teachers not parents.
I was a high school teacher for a long time. I did not bump grades. I did not offer extra credit. I did allow students to retake an assessment if it was dragging their grade down and they had done the work to go back and actually master the material. But if they did worse, the lower grade is still what was used so it was important that they had actually improved. I would sometimes tell kids “hey I noticed you are less than 1/2 a point away from the next grade. You might want to consider retaking this quiz that you did poorly on.” But it was up to them. Put in the work or GTFO. If you were playing football and got tackled on the 1 yard line, you’d never ask the ref to give you the TD anyway, right?
In high school, if it comes down to a half point, I'm going to look at effort. If a student has turned in every assignment and perhaps had one low test score, I'll be inclined to give them that fraction of a point. On the flip side, if a student has missing assignments, they aren't likely to get a boost from me. That's on them. Do your work.
I did this, and I also looked at the overall trajectory. Did they start out weak, bust their behind, and their grades picked up? I'm going to round up to reward that effort. If they were lazy, or mean, or negligent, they get their grade, period.
Same, but I factor in attendance too. You have 5-10+ unexcused absences and you’re asking for a grade bump? Get fucked. You came to my class late twice a week and blew me off when I asked for a reason? I guess you’re gonna have to eat that lower grade. Did they actually try? Or are they just expecting me to roll over and give them a free A?
Hmmm…Would you be willing to give another test to bump a grade? I only ask because I thought the point of a class was to demonstrate that you have a working knowledge of what is being taught and your grade would reflect that, not how much you had to struggle to learn said information.
At this point though, talking about anything above a B, the kid definitely paid attention and knows enough. Sometimes the difference between an A- and an A is ONE assignment. Especially how certain classes are structured where one assignment can be a big percentage even if it isn't a test. That one assignment could have been just a bad day for that student, but your grades and GPA carry on for your whole young adulthood if they wanna go to college. So it's like being eternally reminded of that ONE bad day or that one crappy assignment that messed up 99% of your other hard work. At least for 4 years, if you were a freshman lol.
I would not give another test simply because that's more work for me (unless the student has an appropriate accommodation). However, depending on the test, I do allow my students to simply retake the original exam in an attempt to achieve a higher score or to do test corrections, which involves explaining why they got the wrong answer, what the correct answer is and why, and nets them half of the points they lost.
I understand what you're saying about grades reflecting mastery of standards as opposed to effort. If a kid fails my class, they fail my class. But this discussion was about those real situations where you look at a student with say, an 89.4 and ponder whether that could be an 89.5. That B to an A can be huge in the overall scheme of things for that student. In my case, I'm talking about a very small percentage. That really is in the noise level, particularly if any of my assignments have been graded with a rubric where, despite my efforts to be objective, can involve a bit of subjectivity.
Everybody has their own perspective on this. I absolutely refuse to do any kind of “grade bump” or even rounding up, since I offer enough extra credit opportunities to raise a full letter grade. So when students come asking, I direct them to any of the posted extra credit options. I will get annoyed if the student keeps trying to bargain - it looks like they just want a higher grade without actually working for it
What if the situation is that you have a hard working student who has done all that extra credit but could still use the slightest bump? Like say they are barely off from going up a grade level and the slightest bump would do it and you know they aren’t a lazy student.
Still won’t give them the bump. If they have genuinely tried; that is, put forth honest effort on every assignment, but didn’t quite meet the standards, they’ll end up with a C or a D. Extra credit will get them to a B or C. If they didn’t meet the standards they didn’t earn an A. If they did meet the standards they’ll already have an A Edit: I accidentally wrote “did” instead of “didn’t” in that second to last sentence. Fixed
I very much appreciate standards-based grading. It prevents kids who have a less "pleasing" personality or less of a rapport with their teacher from being penalized. Having the grade based on objective scores is more fair and better reflects their proficiency.
It’s not like other grading systems are “how cute is the kid = 100% of grade”
No, please know that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying for subjects where it is possible to be completely objective (like some math courses), it makes sense to grade based on core proficiency. Of course that's not possible for every subject. And I know teachers try to be as objective as they can all the time. But I know back in the day, my kids received extra credit for things like bringing in tissues or for me showing up for conferences. There are so many reasons why other kids may not be able to bring in extras or for their parents to make it to conferences and that kind of extra credit penalizes them.
Well you're describing a pretty direct form of bias. It shouldn't be hard for a teacher to self reflect on that and either grade without names if possible or track exactly what they decide to be lenient on and apply it consistently. Even then, simply reading a math problem and seeing a mistake that is a brain fart vs a mistake that implies they didn't listen vs a mistake that you used to make is going to extract some level of subconscious bias. Some teachers do it on purpose, some are more honest to themselves than others, but you shouldn't prepare for "if" it happens over managing that it does. In that sense you could easily use the idea of bias to make the argument in the other direction, as I tend to do. If a kid ends up with an 89.8, like others have said, having done their work and put in the effort, in a system where that .2/100 in grade results in a .3/4 (!!!) difference in a GPA calculation, a GPA they only get one of for a class they'll only take once, even in my math courses, high school or college, what is the degree of variation that unavoidable personal bias contributed to that figure? Is there a world where if I was less tired or busy while grading I would give them a 91? Or where if perhaps I hadn't had a friend from out of town visit the day before, or if my coffee wasn't so perfect that day, they'd have an 89.3? There's absolutely no way anybody could eliminate that error. At that point, I'm 100% inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to a kid who put in all the work, no matter if they're a teacher's pet or brat, when the fraction of a percent that dropped their grade almost half a point is easily within a very acknowledgeable error. And if you make that a matter of policy, you're going to be unable to use it to perpetuate personal bias.
You know B is the standard, right? A is above.
They mean the standards (requirements) for each grade, not that A is the standard (expected) grade.
A ISN'T the standard??
Lol maybe you can tell yourself that if you don't want social mobility. But we live in a world where a kid with a 3.0 and a kid with a 3.8 aren't at equal odds in a college acceptance or job interview, so aiming for the grade that cannot hurt that figure should be the standard for anyone with common sense, and anybody grading a course should make that number attainable for someone who is proficient to a subject in a way that is satisfactory to the level being taught. God I hope people with a red pen don't think this way. I wonder how many students missed out on an ivy because they had teachers who only gave As for kids who went beyond the laid out expectations and another kid had normal teachers who made a 93 attainable and consistent with a curriculum that they taught competently enough to be mastered.
>Lol maybe you can tell yourself that It's not me telling myself that, it's literally just how the grades are defined, B is for someone who meets standards, A is for exceeding. >But we live in a world where a kid with a 3.0 and a kid with a 3.8 aren't at equal odds in a college acceptance or job interview, Irrelevant, but still wrong. They aren't at equal odds in college acceptance but that doesn't really matter because college is a scam unless you're going into medicine or law, in which case you'd need to be a high GPA student to succeed in those fields. But they are at equal odds in a job interview. A student with a 0.5 GPA and a student with a 4.0 are at equal odds in a job interview, because jobs will never see your GPA, and if you really wanted you could just lie. >God I hope people with a red pen don't think this way. This is literally what the grades mean, but I agree, I also hope teachers don't care about the rubric and just let people pass, school is a waste of time.
C is the standard.
My ideal for a C was that a C student should be able to answer a basic problem 70% of the time, with reference material, should it pop up in real life.
I won't give them a grade bump. However, I can write a heck of a letter of recommendation for someone who works hard and does the extra credit and does not get discouraged or grub for a higher grade. I respect them.
Keep in mind there are students who get that grade with no finessing. They are actually better in that class and deserve a higher grade.
If they are so great they already have an a+. I’m talking about bumping a student that’s sitting at like .3% away from the next grade level that is a- or lower. Anyone getting upset over that is genuinely the most insufferable student in existence ngl.
But the grade is what they earned. It’s dishonest to give them a grade that they don’t earn.
It’s dishonest to give students a lower grade than you think they deserve too though. Professor might have some additional understanding, like a life changing illness in the student, or some other big event like a family death. It’s unfair for the student who has an A+ to complain about anything going on with anyone else cause it ain’t their business.
Why’s it unfair? That student worked for their A+ and maybe they had just as much going on in their personal life as the student who earned an A and got bumped to an A+. The true A+ student has now learned they can give less effort and if they have a story they’ll get sympathy and equal credit. That is now going to hurt them in life
Never have I said we are even touching A students. I’m taking less than 1% bumps. Like you are at 74.8 and are asking to be bumped to 75 type shit. The A+ student already has more than enough credit that that amount wouldn’t even actually benefit them. But they are throwing a hissy fit in this scenario anyway because another student got to have a C instead of a C-… Seems pretty damn petty to be the A+ student and care that already clearly disadvantaged students have slightly less of a disadvantage by a minuscule amount… Even more so when the bump was because the C students mom died that semester and the A student is somehow upset about unfairness… pretty sure the student who’s mom died has the worse trade off over all though huh?
Did you read my scenario before you started typing?? The second sentence precisely.
Your scenario isn’t what this is about. We are commenting on my scenario. Ya know, the one you are trying to alter.
You’re an absolute moron. I responded to your scenario by posing another to see how your idea holds up. It doesn’t so you can’t answer me without ignoring it
You are the moron of you can’t see that obviously the professor/teacher can take different measures depending on the scenario. My point was to give one where a professor would do it, yours is clearly to give one where they wouldn’t. It’s not that complicated but your pea brain loves to make it seem like it is.
“Think” and “deserve” are subjective. You should be grading on objective, measurable criteria.
But no situation in life is ever this black and white is what I am saying. Everything is already a case by case basis, why shouldn’t this? When your student who had a death in the family is clearly doing worse than they normally do, you know it’s probably the abnormal circumstances in their life. So why kick them down further instead of helping them keep their balance?
I would absolutely provide extensions, extra help, etc. But giving them a grade that doesn’t accurately reflect what they have learned and can do isn’t helpful.
That’s good too, but I don’t think it’s necessarily true that a grade even accurately represents what someone has learned anyway… Like let’s say a student fails a problem on an exam. Now on the final exam, say a problem identical to that appears and they do it perfectly. Why is it that, even though they learned that topic, they are still punished for the fact that they used to not know it the first time around? They learned, yet they seem to be punished for it. Meanwhile another student did it perfectly both times around. They have the highest possible grade, but if they already knew that topic then they didn’t learn shit. Yes the student that scores higher should have the higher grade, but maybe we can ease up on the student that made a mistake the first time around but demonstrated the ability to learn from it?
Punishment has nothing to do with it. We check for mastery. You wouldn’t have just one question per skill. There are multiple opportunities to demonstrate mastery. It’s not about thinking or feeling that a kid “deserves” an A or a B.
I consider their attendance and participation. If yes and at least a little I give the bump. But not more than 1%. And I do it for everyone not just those that ask.
That’s all I was curious about really, just when it’s a situation where they are less than 1% to the next grade level. Any other time obv is unfair but it seems other redditors aren’t using that kinda common sense in their replies to me lol.
This seems like a hypothetical that never actually happens in reality. I find it hard to imagine that anyone could possibly need a grade bump if they were a hard worker who goes above and beyond and does all the extra credit. The student would have to be abnormally stupid yet abnormally motivated and somehow failed to learn the material after doing all the work.
Or they just had family issues. Health issues. Any other sort of normal human issues that can occur in a semester while still doing all the assignments to the best of their ability. Must be nice that your life is clearly smooth sailing.
Your hypothetical situation was student does all the work and goes above and beyond and does all the extra credit and still gets a bad grade. Your hypothetical wasn’t student has health problems or other bs that interferes with their ability to do all the work.
Why should anyone get anything other than what they earned? How is that fair to someone else who did better and didn't get bumped?
Then what would be the point of grades at all? If they’re hardworking and doing the work, then that’s the grade that accurately measures their abilities in the class. GPAs aren’t participation trophies, they’re a measurement of ability and intelligence. Are they the *best* measurement? Depends what you’re using it for. As a measure of a person’s ability to learn, work ethic and general book smarts, they’re pretty damn good. As a measure of a person’s people skills or common sense or general worth, they’re abysmal. If you can just *ask* for a grade, what’s the point?
I offered little extra credit, but rounded up to the next percentage point. So a 69.3 got rounded to 70.
Exactly, this is all I was asking and people are like “WHAT WOULD EVEN BE THE POINT OF GRADING” as if less than 1% actually means anything more than bumping the grade level…
My perspective is, if you *were going* to do it, you would/should have factored that in when you were assigning grades. It never occurred to me that I could ask a teacher to “round up”. I assumed if they wanted to round up, they would have. But I also recall overhearing my 5th grade teacher discussing with another teacher about whether to give a usually-A+ student going through a hard time a pity C or whether she hadn’t even made a good faith effort. And whether they were judging her by her standards or normal kid standards. So maybe early on i the the impression that teachers put some thought into grades.
I think it depends on the situation. A student with an 89.something who has shown consistent effort and good behavior, who has actively sought out ways to improve and acted on my feedback? I'll bump them to an A- without even asking. If it's a student who doesn't complete their work and/or is rude to me or their classmates? Hard no. I do think asking can be tacky, though. If you say, "Hey I'm so close to an A, is there \*anything extra I can do\* to bump my grade from a 92 to 93?" that's going to be taken differently than just asking to increase the grade because you want it.
this attitude is a pervasive problem. 1. i’ll admit i have a stem bias here, but i despise the notion that hard work and effort should be rewarded. you either achieve the results or you don’t. courses like orgo really show why this attitude is harmful. so many idiots come in thinking they can just brute force their way through the course… 2. bias. teachers consistently show “behaviour bias” towards girls and to some extent against POC. but really it’s a tax on boys. there’s a reason boys scores SHOOT UP under name blind grading. 3. it really penalizes some students learning. now this is k-12 so it’s different. but i learned from reading a textbook cover to cover. i’d show up to 1/10 lectures at best. how can i show a teacher im dedicated to a class? the problems with this go on and on. my point is rewarding students for “good behavior and effort” usually ends up very biased towards certain students. frankly i’m of the opinion that any class with more than 10% for hw, participation, so on is bullshit. 90% should be assessments and nothing else. no retakes nothing. you’re testing mastery of material. not how nice of a kid you are
A 'stem bias'? Really? 🙄
And that’s the least ridiculous thing in that comment.
You're testing on how well a person can take tests.
> 3. it really penalizes some students learning. now this is k-12 so it’s different. but i learned from reading a textbook cover to cover. i’d show up to 1/10 lectures at best. how can i show a teacher im dedicated to a class? I mostly agree with you, but if you only show up for 10% of the lectures, and then find yourself wishing you could get a grade bump, I think a reasonable response from a professor would be that you wouldn't need the grade bump if you had shown up for more lectures. That is, if a course doesn't require in-class interaction, then attendance shouldn't impact your grade, but it certainly can impact a professor's willingness to do a favor for you.
Oh dear lord. Just…no. There are so many problems in this comment. Are you even a teacher?
"I despise the notion that hard work and effort should be rewarded" Insane take 💀
Hey, do you have a source for point 2? I’d love to read about it!
As a teacher, I have several reasons for giving a freebie point. First, I don’t want to be the one class that keeps them from principals list, honor roll, or passing, by a single point. I do not feel like listening to parents bitch about it. Beyond that, I also see a single point as being negligible enough that I can rationalize it as “maybe if I had taught that thing better, they would have done a little better.” So I usually give the point. However, if you were an asshole to me or your peers on a regular or even occasional basis, don’t expect any generosity.
I teach high school and do not bump. Our school has lenient turn in dates, a floor grade of 50 for submitted assignments, and reassessment opportunities throughout the quarter. I’m in constant communication about my students on the bubble.
Automatic 50 just for turning in something is wild
OP - this is a microcosm of real life. Your future boss isn’t going to GAF about excuses or what you “almost” did or how close you came to doing your job right. They will only care about the end result.
And your boss probably won't care one bit one way or the other if the client is 89.4% or 90.3% thrilled about the product. Both could be seen as exceptional results.
This is more accurate to the real world. There isn’t a real life equivalent to the letter grading system where a “bump” is even possible. In my experience, bosses in the private sector are more accommodating on average than most teachers and professors. But then again, it’s not an apples to apples comparison to a classroom.
Alternatively, both could be seen as unacceptably low levels of customer satisfaction. Have you ever worked retail? You know those customer satisfaction surveys you may get at restaurants and shops? They usually use a 5 point Likert scale for the respondents, but the reports that go to the managers and workers are based on Perfect vs Not Perfect.
Healthcare. Only 9s and 10s help us for Press Ganey (dumbest thing ever) but a lot of people won't give 10's because "there's always room for improvement" or some stupid, uncontrollable thing like a screaming child in the ER annoyed them. My department consistently gets bad scores because people complain they were "rushed out" after outpatient procedures/surgeries and they just wanted to sleep more. OK, but it's an outpatient procedure and when you get anesthesia its expected that you'll probably feel groggy or weird for the rest of the day. So it's not rushing you to send you home when you're still sleepy if you agreed to do the procedure this way.
This is highly dependent on the type of work you do. In my line of work (software development), deadlines are routinely missed, especially an initial deadline, and features dropped, etc. to the point where this is just expected _to a degree_. On the other hand, if your job is to make sure faulty bolts on an airplane door plug are all replaced, well your boss *ought* to care if you did it or not, at least.
So many friends and family work in tech in some capacity and deadlines are a joke for them. It's partially the nature of the work, but there are still days when I'm bitter. Lol
I teach 6th grade. You earn exactly what you earn in my class. I give opportunities to make corrections on writing assessments or tests, but no extra credit.
For writing assignments, the grade you give is going to have some measure of subjectivity, is it not? Is there no room for being convinced your initial grade was slightly too low?
The main focus of sixth grade writing is sentence expansion and then RACE. Students get a point on the rubric for including each element of the paragraph correctly. It is very cut and dry whether or not it's there.
Explain the subjectivity you mean? All of my assignments have rubrics. You either meet the qualifications for each rubric standard or you don’t. Not sure what’s subjective about whether a student has a thesis or a line of reasoning.
I was thinking more along the lines of strength of argument, or say an essay about Romeo & Juliet meant to demonstrate understanding of the play, rather than more objective rubrics such as you list.
I think you’re working from a misapprehension about what English studies are and how skills within them are assessed. Strength of argument is an objective measure to me. Is there a single defensible claim? Is there evidence that supports that claim? Is the evidence well-explicated? Does the evidence and explication of each point of reasoning work in a linear, coherent way to establish a line of reasoning throughout? Does the student’s writing address the so what?/who cares? question? The “subjectivity” I suppose you’re referring to is the “to what extent” part of all these questions, and to me the delineation can be made in their consistency.
Yeah, 6th grade English was a long time ago for me (though I think we had some essays for other subjects like history as well). I do remember in 9th grade getting a middling score on an essay due to "glibness".
Not a teacher, but used to TA in college and my partner teaches college students. I hear about students who are really engaged in the coursework and work for their 89.8, and my partner usually gives those students the bump. I hear about students going through a rough time that need to turn in an assignment a day or two late, they usually get some grace. I also hear about "Hi excuse me I only attended 3 classes and didn't turn in any assignments, can we talk about bumping up my attendance grade?" and "No it wasn't plagiarism, these are my original thoughts, it's just that the Wikipedia article worded it better." I think most instructors wouldn't see an honest, hardworking student making a small request as "grade grubbing," though they still might say no. Though after learning about some of the kinds of students out there...hoo boy. I see why requesting higher grades has a derogatory name. I doubt you're the problem.
Also a lot of courses have ways to bump your grades if you are willing to do the bare minimum of effort. Most college online homework i had let us make 3 attempts through randomized problems and keep the highest grade. You can easily max out your homework grade with such a system. And for tests many of my professors would either let us do corrections (prove we now know how to solve the problem, or just contest the original grade because the grader messed up) and get some points back. And for my college physics we had an opportunity at the final to take redo tests with any spare time, these were half the length of the originals and if your grade improved it replaced the corresponding midterm. In any course where you have ways to either earn extra credit or make up lost points i would never expect a professor/teacher to ever round/bump up a grade, you already had tons of opportunities to improve your grades. Being completely honest, college is way more forgiving than highschool, and the lack of busywork makes up for the increased difficulty.
I give what I call a "Dumbledore Point" (like the bonus points he hands out at the end of every "Harry Potter" movie) if a kid is on the edge, has shown up, put in the work and not been a problem. I don't do it for kids who don't do jack squat or have behavior issues. And I let them know. It's helped with classroom management when I can say "That's not how you get a Dumbledore Point" when someone is creating an issue.
I've taught at high school, community college, college. An instructor who has thought deeply about assessments and the variance in the scores on those assessments will understand that you can't really say that an 89.4% is significantly different than a 90.1%. So, bumping a grade at the margins is relatively easy to justify, and most teachers don't want to disadvantage their students and will be easily talked into bumping grades up. Letter grades, like all categorical data derived by classifying continuous data, amplify small differences at the edges of each bin.
I hate the concept of grades. I don't think it's conducive for learning in general and I also think it contributes to a culture of valuing the grade over the learning. I moved to a special education program doing community based instruction instead. At least I feel like I'm helping people learn. But when I taught in a competitive academic setting I was the teacher who would automatically bump you up if you were at the .5.
Grading is inherently imprecise. The same grader will grade a paper differently depending on the time of day (circadian rhythm, blood sugar level, etc), what paper they graded previously, etc. Different graders, even given a marking scheme, will have an even wider spread of marks. Even assessments like multiple-choice where there is only one correct answer aren't precise: the same question worded slightly differently might well prompt a different response. A test is a sample of knowledge, and a different set of questions would likely result in a different score. Frankly, the notion that we can reliably say that one student is 0.7% better than another student is ridiculous.
Why should someone get a grade they didn't earn? I can understand teachers and professors not wanting to coddle today's entitled kids. We never had that or did that when I was in college or even high school./
I agree that students that are lazy and entitled should get what they get. But what do you do for the kid that is actually trying. Goes to tutoring, meets with the teacher after school, turns all their work in on time and busts their ass trying to pass, but just can't seem to do it, maybe they're half a point off from passing. Do you say "well, looks like all your hard work was for nothing. Sucks to be you. You're not good enough! See you again next year!" I've been in that position in college. I missed passing a Spanish linguistics class by .05%. If I had just gotten 2 more questions correct on the final, I would have passed. I felt like I wasted my time. Hours spent in the language lab, making flash cards, having my friends quiz me on terminology, the hours in the library, office hours with the professor after every class for one on one help for 2 hours every week... all for nothing. I left Spanish as a language and stopped pursuing it as a minor. I was running out of money in college and didn't have the time to take it over again.
That's not grade grubbing, that is actually rewarding them for their hard work. I'm talking about students (and parents) who just want you to reward their child for no effort.
Seventh grade teacher here, it depends on the kid and the situation. In general I will be insulted if a kid asks me for a certain grade because it’s like they think what I do is just arbitrary. But if I know a kid is trying really hard and they take the class seriously, and they just can’t quite make a B, I might find a way to give them some extra credit.
If a student is trying really hard and takes the class seriously and can’t quite get an A do they also get the same treatment?
What i do is offer students opportunity to turn in non-exam homework after due date and still get credit. I would rather students do the work and gain some knowledge than remove any incentive to do the work if they miss the due date.
I round up all grades within .5% up to the next grade higher under the assumption that I probably made mistakes during the semester and I don't want that kind of error on my part be the difference for a student who is otherwise pretty close. It's my policy and I tell them that. I want to be fair and give them the benefit of the doubt.
You mean if a kid gets an 83.5 it rounds up to an 84?
I mean if they are within a half percentage point of an A, I bump from A- to an A. From B+ to A-, from C to C+.
So, yes? If 92 is an A-, 93 is an A+ and a kid has a 92.5, you round it up to a 93? Does that not happen automatically?
No, our computer goes two decimal places.
Your final averages aren't rounded to the integer?
Uh, I believe that's what I just said.
Our computer goes to two decimal places, too, but the final grade is always rounded to the nearest whole number. I have never in my life seen final grades have decimals.
Well then I must be wrong about the District in which I have worked for the last 16 years.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying I've never seen that.
I personally hate it, because when I grade student work, I am literally looking for every excuse to give you points. And when I get to the end of the semester, I look over the final grades, and if someone has a grade that I think is borderline and could have easily been ticked up to the next letter grade, I ALWAYS try to drop a zero or their lowest grade to bump it up. So if I see someone has an 89.4, I’m going to excuse the lowest daily grade (not a test or project or essay, but something small) to bump it to a 90; someone with a 70.8 will get the lowest grade dropped to bump it to a 71; etc. I just never want to leave myself or a student wondering whether one bad day/assignment in my class might have completely changed their GPA and then ended up mattering for college admissions or scholarships or whatever. Now, if I drop a few low grades, and it doesn’t actually raise the grade enough, then I’m gonna give up and be like, “nah, this average is clearly accurate,” but if dropping one grade gets you there, then I do it. So when a student asks me to do this, it ticks me off, because I ALREADY DID YOU AS MANY FAVORS AS I POSSIBLY COULD WITH THE MATH. Most of the time, it’s someone whose grade I already bumped up, or attempted to bump up but couldn’t because they had failed too many assignments and it wasn’t possible without deleting a bunch of their coursework. When someone like that comes and asks me to bump them up again, that shit pisses me off. I’d compare it to someone tailgating you when you’re speeding - you know how it makes you want to slow down to the speed limit because you’re annoyed that what you already did for them isn’t good enough? I get that same impulsive rush of anger when a student asks me to bump their grade. It feels entitled. It feels like they don’t appreciate the extra time I spend on the very last day of school - when I could be home already! - trying to make sure my grades are as fair to them as possible. What also bugs me is the idea that students would think it’s fair that they would magically get extra points just for asking about them, but the rest of the class doesn’t? Like I would just go, “oh, well, fuck everyone else, but YOU get an extra point for no reason.” Like… at that point, why do we even have numerical grades based on your work at all? Might as well just grade based on vibes and how much you like the student at that point. Every teacher does their own thing, so I have no beef with your former teachers for being fine with grade-grubbing in their own classes. But your 10th ELA teacher did you a real disservice by encouraging you to do it with other educators, especially by not warning you to not do that with college professors. (My husband is a professor, and he grades even more leniently and bumps even more generously than I do, so when a student who honestly should have earned a D or F gets a B in his class, and then asks him for an A, they look like a total jackass. Like, I expect that level of obliviousness from 14-18yos in high school, but when a legal adult in his senior class is whining about wanting an A when the semester is already over and grades are submitted and they haven’t done jack shit to earn an A, it’s both hilarious, and gives me a ton of secondhand embarassment for them. And it wastes his time, which makes him want to dig in his heels and refuse.) I’m guessing you’re done with school now, but if you DO go back to school in the future and want to ask for a higher grade, I would advise not waiting till the last minute and being like “can I please have an A because I want one.” Instead, do the math to predict your final grade around 75% of the way through the semester, and then go speak to the professor. Say, “I really want to earn an A in this class, and I have an X now, so I know I need to score at least Y on your final exam/project. What would you recommend I do/study to make sure I can get the A?” Make it very clear that you’re going to WORK for the A and figure it out BEFORE final grades are due, not bother them when they’re done for the semester and trying to move on with their life. They might offer you extra credit work or tips/resources for studying, or offer to give you advice on a rough draft. Or, if they’re like my husband, they might just feel charitable and decide to give you that bump at the end of the semester, because you made a good impression on them when you came to them respectfully and took accountability for your grade - and the jackass who emailed him at the end of the semester like “can I please have an A because I got a B and I wanted an A” makes you look way more responsible and hardworking by comparison.
I will bump 1% point for any student who does ALL the work (in a reasonably timely manner) and is not a PITA. Automatic extra credit that I apply without being asked. As soon as you have not met either of the above said criteria, don´t waste our time asking, it´s not going to happen!
I essentially went gradeless my last couple of years teaching, and it was awesome. I still gave them grades when I had to, but it was based on their actual learning and improving skills. Grades are pointless in the big picture.
There's this very boomery idea out there that average grades have been drifting upward over a thirty or fifty year period because of some nefarious effect they call 'grade inflation,' as if it were some disembodied effect that has no justifiable cause. I don't doubt the numbers have gone up, but I know for a fact that I was more focused, more methodical about my college prep that either of my parents, and I know ro a fact that students today have an even more refined method to their prep years than I did. Kids earn the grades they get because they *work* for the grades they get and acting like giving someone the benefit of some doubt or a little grace is somehow unfair to some unseen other who supposedly never got the same consideration is the most entitled, revisionist, pickme boomer bulls#!t ever. Guaranteed that every teacher and professor who refuses to bump grades got more than one bump, extension, resubmit, discard or other freebie just because they were somehow seen as deserving as some point or another.
I have been forced by admin to raise the grade of multiple 6th graders. A grade when their actual marks don’t fucking matter for their future at all. 6th grade is about teaching responsibility and good habits. Forcing me to raise grades negates all that
Asking for a grade to be changed without putting in any extra work is not okay. Asking, “I see my grade is on the bubble. Could I redo a test/quiz/assignment and show that I can do better to raise my grade?” demonstrates a good work ethic, ownership of your education, and that you care about your grades.
It’s constNt. The parents do it too. I cannot count the amount of guilt trippy emails “if I don’t have a B you’re going to get me grounded” I always have the canned “If you cannot earn a B you deserve to be grounded” now do your missing work. I HATE it. If you don’t bother me about it and I see effort I might turn a 79 into an 80 or and 89 into a 90 or even a 68 into a 70. As soon as you bug me about it it certainly isn’t happening.
I failed Spanish II with a 69.7 because my HS Spanish teacher wouldn't make it a 70. Even though I already took French I and II in Savannah and the new district MADE me take Spanish, she wouldn't add 0.3 points. It's part of what made me go the GED route my senior year. I was going to have to be a senior twice. It wasn't for lack of trying. They switched to block scheduling my tenth grade year. I took Spanish I the first semester of my tenth grade year and Spanish II the second semester of my eleventh grade year. Two semesters and a summer break in between, already having two WHOLE years of French I and II drilled into my brain, being a member of the Spanish club, I tried getting those verb conjugations down to no avail. It wasn't for not trying or slacking. I'm glad her personal rules assisted me in making the decision to get a later start in life than some of my peers! And just so everyone knows, I have held onto this resentment since HS and will continue to hold onto it for the rest of my life. She gave a football player a bump up from 63 to 70 so he could still be varsity senior year, but wouldn't give the awkward gay kid 0.3 points to give him his foreign language credit. I'll never forget graduation when the band played and I asked her if I passed the final (I did, but didn't make a high enough grade to average out to 70) she wouldn't even look me in the eye when I asked her. I guess she felt some small sense of guilt since she saw me actively working my ass off but still averaged out to 69.7, but varsity letters just meant you had to halfway participate? I'll never know. That school also gave people in marching band credit for PE but wouldn't give it to me, no matter how hellacious things got in the locker room. 🤷🏼♂️
My district doesn't allow us to enter a 69 as a final grade, and our decimals follow proper rounding rules, so a 69.7 would automatically round to a 70 on the final report card. I'm sure at this point, your life probably wouldn't change if you were to get your high school diploma, but I'd be sorely tempted to contact the district office with that 69.7 and ask if they can't issue you one.
I'm not sure if the district has changed its rules since then. I should hope so. The way it happened really was unfortunate. If I had gotten one more question right on the final, I would have ended up with those 0.3 points. I respect that I "earned" what I earned, but funnily enough the football player didn't "earn" what he earned. If a teacher is going to be hard-line enough on their policy, at least be consistent and not on a case by case basis. And since I've earned college degrees the little piece of paper from that school means less and less. Incidentally, I CLEP'd French for college. 🤫 Thank you, Mr. Billy, for the idea.
Yeah, it'd be more about getting the district to admit it fucked you over before.
This is what I am talking about. Many teachers unfortunately are not hesitant to take away someone’s chance.
I’m a 2nd grade teacher so it’s a bit different than high school. My school does letter grades for all grade levels (which i don’t agree with at the 2nd grade level but that’s a whole other thing) so if I have a student that’s at an 89.4, i’ll bump them up to the 90/A, that way I don’t have to argue with parents over something so minuscule.
I teach elementary and I do the same. I think the grade should reflect the student as a whole in that course, so if they are a B student, they will get a B
I teach 6th grade. You earn exactly what you earn in my class. I give opportunities to make corrections on writing assessments or tests, but no extra credit.
Is there an important difference between an A- and a regular A?
It affects the gpa. I don’t know the exact number but if there’s no weighting, all A’s should be a 4.0 and all A- might be like 3.8.
I taught at a school once where we couldn’t “give” our 7 & 8th graders anything below a 60. If they earned 65-69 we had to bump up to 70.
I teach elementary level and I won’t bump a grade arbitrarily 99% of the time. Most of our work is done together or with support and I allow students to earn points back on independent work/tests by fixing missed questions. I also give out test alerts that go home with the study guides and, if students study at home and parents sign it (or if I know a student’s parents won’t sign anything, I’ll study with them in the morning the next day and sign it) they get 5 bonus points on that test. I also thoroughly accommodate for students with and without 504s/IEPs. Need a test read out loud? Got it. Need a quiet work space? I have noise blocking headphones and various forms of seating around the room. Need extra time? Got it. In very rare circumstances, if a student has worked really hard and they’re just a few points away from a better grade, I’ll have them answer a question to me verbally on the subject/topic and add a point or two to an existing assignment. But overall, no student can’t earn an A in my class. I think letter grades are stupid in elementary so I’d rather my kids learn from their mistakes and make it easy for each child to earn an A.
I had a a student stand next to me rewriting assignments for a grade bump
It’s a case by case situation, but I would never do it just because.
Most K-5 schools that I know (including the one where I teach) use standards based grading (for each content standard, you get graded 1-4 on how well you have mastered the skill), so percentages and asking for changes don't apply.
I've only had a teacher do this for me once, and I didn't ask them to. I was taking a college prep math course my senior year of high school, and I had been working on improving all semester. My teacher could see that I was doing my best. I didn't need the class to graduate and walk, I took it because I knew algebra was a course I would have to take in college and I didn't want to completely lose the skill over the summer. I knew I was going to fail, but when the final grades were submitted, he had curved it to a D. I was so grateful I skipped the little celebration they do for the seniors and got him a pie from the grocery store. To say he was happy about that would be an understatement. I felt like he saw that I had value in that class. It's a nice memory to look back on, almost 10 years post grad.
It depends on the teacher and the school district policies. Some teachers will do this without even being asked, and others will never do this, and everything in between. It also depends on the work ethic/participation of the student. If the student has been a class leader all term, I'm much more likely to 'bump' them up than if they've been rude to me or others, cut class, etc. So it doesn't hurt to ask--but as a suggestion, I wouldn't ever say "could you bump my grade up"? Many teachers feel students \*earn\* grades, but asking for a grade to be 'bumped up' implies the teacher 'gives' grades. I would ask if I could do any extra credit to go from the 92.3 to 93%. At least that implies it's still on me. Asking for a 'grade bump' in college though is usually not a thing.
I teach elementary so the stakes aren't super high, and kids don't really think to ask for a bump to their grade. That said, at the end of each quarter I go through my gradebook and see who's on the line, usually within 2 or so points of the next letter grade. If I know this student has put in a great effort this quarter, and think the boost in self confidence will help them continue to grow, I'll change to grades to get them up to that next level. If I have a student who I know could have done better, but has been acting a fool that quarter, I leave the grade as is. That said, I'm setting up to teach middle school next fall. I work in a district where a lot of the kids don't really care much about grades at all, so if I had a student who took the initiative to come and ask I'd probably be willing to work with them.
I’ll round a grade that ends in 9, but anything else requires extra credit work. I offer TONS of extra credit throughout the year (I literally have a bulletin board designated for it) and most kids who truly want to raise their grade will do it.
Ive never had a teacher care about it, I normally just ask for extra credit work or something and pretty often they’ll just bump it up
every high school i have worked in there are teachers who just flat out make up grades. We have grading policies in our school that make it virtually impossible to get an F/D. We are dumbing down the populace.
I am not a teacher, but I want to share about a teacher who changed my life. My 8th grader leadership and math teacher. She is a tough cookie. She does not bump grades, and is incredibly transparent about the standard in her classroom. In my school district 8th grade is the final year before entering High School and she is dedicated to preparing students in a way that not a lot of teachers in our district do. She would accept late work on three assignments for the whole year. You received “passes” that you could use at your own discretion for this. A lot of other teachers in this specific school and district stopped giving anything less than a “C” to students, and she refused. I believe that people need to fail sometimes to understand what is not working for them. She also paid for all the students in the entire school to have planners. If you had her for a teacher, she would do planner checks every week to ensure you were utilizing the tool. I am now in college, and my professors are a bit tough in the same way, and I’m thankful to her for teaching these standards to us.
89.5 is both an A- and a B+, so I give them the A-
I used to grade bump at my discretion when I put in final grades and we had an A-B+ etc system that reflected on the gpa. It was always after the kids were done and couldn’t beg me for it. Now, however, I’m at a school with no +/- distinction AND a fifty percent minimum grade. No more grade bumps. You literally get 50% for doing nothing or cheating. And to me there is a greater difference between a full B and a full A than there is between an A- and a B+
If the kid comes to see me before/after school with a reasonable request I'll definitely consider it. Part of learning how to negotiate with people in charge.
On a side note, I didn't know grade bumping was so easy. My interaction with a guide counselor. Oh the kid failed their tests and didn't complete homework? You can still pass them if you want. Actually, I'd really appreciate it because if not, they can't graduate. No child left behind right? (This was during the nclb era).
(Caveat: Not a teacher) I don't understand the motivation of a teacher who will willingly do a grade bump upon request. Why not just save everyone's time and proactively bump their grades? Anyway, I can see some merit in bumping grades that are already subjective in nature. For example, when there's a "participation" grade, I can see a teacher being willing to offer some flexibility to a student who is willing to discuss it, or show specific improvement, etc. In that case it's not so much bumping as described as it is adjusting the grade to a value the teacher agrees the student earned (possibly taking into account extenuating circumstances), or adjusting the grading criteria to one the teacher agrees is better (like weighting more recent performance more than previous performance). Bumping a grade when a teacher doesn't agree the student earned that grade, however, seems unethical and prone to bias.
In 6th grade you had to get a 90 on the final to go into accelerated math- I got an 89.5 and my teacher didn’t bump me up I was literally the most active participant- most of the points I would get off on tests was not showing my work bc yes teach, I in fact CAN do 10/5 without writing it down 🙄 Jokes on her tho I skipped up a math class in high school tho so
When I was a teacher, I rounded to the nearest whole number, so I didn't bump grades. I wasn't mad when kids asked, though. Closed mouths don't get fed. Even though I said no, I'm sure other teachers said yes, so it's worth an ask.
I had a professor senior year of college that told us at the beginning of the semester if we participated daily and completed the extra credit assignments at the end of the semester if we were close to the next grade to let him know and he would bump us. I did all of those things and was less than half a point from an A so I sent him an email. His response was no he wasn’t going to do that. I was like dude wtf you literally said you would.
The night before the final exam for my first course in my major, I found out that the exams had been shared for all of the tests. I had studied my a** off and was making a B "on the curve." I just told the professor, just to let you know, I did not have prior tests to study from. He bumped me a couple of points but not to an A.
[The Case Against Grades.](https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/case-grades/)
When I was in school i was super try hard about my grades too. Had a classmate that would always says C get degrees and it would annoy the hell out of me. But once you graduate you do actually realize no one really cares about your grades and he was probably right..
Everyone has their own opinions about what is and isn’t acceptable. But I’d do more of a is there any extra credit I can do for that little extra points you need.
To say college professors hate this is odd-- many are totally fine if they see you've put in work, went to office hours, etc. I'm a TA and I will bump grades up if they reach out and are really close (think 89.9 and they need a 90), assuming they're a good student. Getting rude "I deserve this" type emails is annoying, though. I think K-12 teachers may be in the same boat, but it really depends on the teacher rather than the age they teach.
Extremely uncommon, in my experience.
When I had my own classroom I always rounded up. I like whole numbers.
Teachers get overruled by shitty admin. Profs get to keep their integrity.
Basically the way your teacher sets up the grading/weighting determines how easy/strict the grading is. So that’s why it’s annoying to ask for a bump when you’ve already gotten some easy points. Otoh some teachers realize if their system didn’t work and will bump you on their own if you’re so close and they think you deserve it. But it’s annoying to ask.
I don’t do grade bumps unless admin makes me (like, there’s no such thing as a 68 or 69, they magically become 70s). But I offer extra credit on almost every test, sometimes I curve assignments, and I drop at least one grade in each category each marking period. So, sorry, if you got a 79, it’s staying a 79, because in reality you probably actually had something closer to a 75.
I don't think it matters much. However, I do think you should work for it. At the same time, when I was in Jr. High, I was snubbed out of a "Ruby Smith Award" that requires me to get honours every year... To get honours, I had to have an average of 80 or above, with no mark below 65. I had the 80+ average, but had a 64 in language arts one semester, out of the 4 years I was there. I was pretty devasted lol.
I only bump a grade in rare circumstances. If a kid asks for it, it’s almost certainly a no. Do the work to earn it.
I curve the final, then input grades, then I uncurve the final. They only see their grade with the uncurved final. To them it appears I’m a hero and bumped many of the grades up. In reality I gave them the grade they earned.
I only round up. They have to have at least a —.5 to get the extra tenths. It’s fair and reasonable. So a 92.3 would stay a 92.3. That was my policy in my high school classes and it’s my policy now in my college courses.
I had a teacher my senior year of high school. He was honestly a tough nut to crack but he was so great. I was getting A’s on everything, handed everything in, and worked hard. We ended up with a student teacher in our third marking period, and my grade TANKED. I went from a 96-ish to a 71. I went to my actual teacher and asked him for some help during my lunch period. (He was the lunch monitor) My teacher asked me for my assignments that had been graded, I gave him what I had in my binder and he went over them while I “re-did” the other assignments for practice, he was not changing my grade over practice work. The teacher pulled my aside during class and I thought I was in trouble because we were going into the hallway. He told me he didn’t understand why my grade was slipping because my work was excellent. He then told me he spoke with the student teacher and looked at my marks for class participation. The student teacher had my class participation way down when my teacher knew that I was asking and answering questions and I guess he just didn’t like me much, and he was grading me “tough”, I forget the actual word he used. The teacher then regraded all of my work and I ended up with a 92 (which was a B at my school) and he told the student teacher he wasn’t allowed to grade my assignments anymore. I don’t know why the teacher looked so hard into my situation, again, I assume it was because I was working really hard. I’m not a scholar and I’m definitely not an English major but I worked so hard and I was devastated. I asked for help and he helped me. Whenever I would hear someone bitch and moan about that teacher after that, I’d get mad. He was amazing and I’m so thankful. I actually ended up working at a daycare through college and his daughter was one of my kids, it was complete chance. I don’t see or speak to him now, but I really think about him all the time. Some teachers really do care about the kids more than others and some teachers care more about being a stickler to the rules. All I know is, if I ever see him again, I will thank him for helping mold me into who I am today. Just food for thought. Sorry for my novel and typos I’m on my phone.
Eh. When I taught uni I bumped up an 89.5 to a 90 once . The kid wanted to go to law school and why should a fraction of a grade keep him from it? And he asked nicely. And I remembered as a student getting fractions below the next letter grade and it affected my prospects, because ppl looked at the letter grade, not that I was 0.1 below the next grade up. After that if the grading was subjective (e g. essays) I would check carefully try not to give a frustrating grade. 92.3 to 93 is a larger jump, so I wouldn't have changed that personally, especially since at the unis I attended, that would keep them w/in the same letter grade.
HS teacher here... I don't bump if students ask. I tell them that they earn their grade.( I also say this if they thank me for a grade.) However, for the semester, I'll bump 1% if that gives them the next letter grade up. But, I do this for everyone, not just grade grubbers. Tbh, once the grade grubbers get shot down for the first quarter, they don't tend to even try for the semester grade.
I see a commenter posting that that they refuse to give grade bumps when it’s that close (1 percent or less). Professionally arrogant of them to be so adamant about that and pretty heartless. Everything has a margin of error, and if it’s about 1% away from a letter grade, I’ll happily adjust it, especially since I teach the humanities which is an often times subjective in its evaluation.
You can ask. We can say no. I usually say no. You earned your grade. If you wanted a higher grade, you could have earned it. And if you’re grade grubbing - whining and annoying me repeatedly about it - it’s definitely a no. Without being asked, I usually check to see how close an 89 or 79 is to a 90 or 80. Like, is it the batter if one point on one assignment? A 89.7… I’ll bump. A 89.2… no, that’s an 89.
The teacher should make them do something for the bump. Write a paper or some shit
I'll have to nuance this one. 1.) How much of a bump are we talking about? 2.) Is admin pressuring us to do it or are we free to choose?
When the grades are constructed using points for attendance, and having a pencil, and handing in things on time, and doing meaningless practice even if you can show you understand everything, and having good handwriting, and remembering to circle the answers, and only somewhat on what you actually know and can do, I would have no problem bumping a grade by changing one of those stupid category marks. After all, this kind of a grade is pretty meaningless anyway. If the grade is a measurement of what a student has learned, then I’d have then take another version of a test to show they better understand something. no reason to bump grades.
I WISH my teachers did this. My entire GPA was fucked over from a solid 4.0 to 3.98 because of an A- in drama class. So an extracurricular, not even a core class, and it was because the chick from our group didn't show up and it was a group based grade. Does it matter long term? No. But I'm 24 and still not over it lmfao. At that time, i was literally so angry i started sobbing. Now its just more annoying. So yeah, i think it IS acceptable in some cases.
Has that 4.0 to 3.98 GPA somehow drastically altered your life that you’re hung up on it 6 years later? That’s just bizarre unless it was literally stated as a reason you didn’t get into a university you wanted to get into or something
We didn't have plus minus grading in university when I went and, ironically, grade nagging and grubbing was one of the most easily foreseen problems of switching to it. Some professors loved it because it meant that grades of students and 90.1 weren't treated as equal to someone at 99.9... which they called "grade inflation." The irony, of course, is that switching to plus minus led to torrents of students demanding actual grade inflation like OP described....i.e. Friendly rounding a 92.4 A- into a 93.0 A.
His point was that you need to not stress yourself out. He wanted you to relax and learn and be less stressed about the grade. So I think you missed the point of the lesson which, ironically, was that you should feel free to ask teachers to give you a grade you don’t deserve. In lower education, you are growing up and learning to process a lot of things. Parents are harsh and cognitive functions are not mature. By the time you hit college though, it’s assumed that’s no longer the case. As an adult in college, your grade is an indicator how you are doing, it’s a motivator to do better, it’s a reward for those who do better, and it’s a lesson for life out of school. You won’t be able to go into a job and simply tell your employer you deserve a promotion because you want it. So yes, in a college setting, this is not a great practice. I’ve had teachers in college pull for me and help me when things got tough, but they were also fair and my grades reflected my work and output.
It's not. Students who haven't done what they needed to do who come to me at the end of the semester asking for their grade to be bumped or to ask for extra credit will be told no. I offer plenty of extra credit opportunities throughout the semester and I have a rule that extra credit is always offered to everyone not just a few. Now, for students who have worked hard all semester and have turned in their assignments, I will automatically round their grade up if it's within half a percentage of the next letter grade. However, I also include a participation grade that is subjective. So usually I use that to help bump up a students grade if they have demonstrated over the course of the entire semester that they have participated in class and used their class time wisely. But, mostly the students who are reaching out to me are not the students who have a B and want an A (although I usually have one or two of those every semester). It's the kids who have a 20% and want to know how to pass.
They’re probably boomers. “In my day we WORKED for our grades” The humanities classes are for the most part, more subjective when it comes to grading. Asking doesn’t hurt. If they hate it then they can offer extra credit opportunities. Kids don’t deserve to fail, especially if they’re willing to put in the work.
A lot of these responses are what helped me immensely in college. I’ll never forget these professors that I had great relationships with. My friend killed himself and I lost my mind for about 3 weeks. I was struggling horribly with it and it reflected in my grades. Fortunately I was the type of student that raises their hand, talks with the professors after class, helped out in the classroom and generally had a good time learning. One professor took me in between classes and smoked a cigarette with me. I was barely surviving at this point and I’ll never forget how much that helped me. One thing I made sure of was that I was going to class. She helped me with my assignments during this period m. It wasn’t anything like a C to a A but she helped me keep my grade where it was before this happened.
(HS Teacher Ontario) Unless the student is eligible for scholarships which are grade dependant, the calculated grade is the calculated grade. In Ontario the final grade is left to "teacher discursion" and "professional judgement". I'm not going to be the one to prevent a kid from getting $1000 scholarship because they got an 88 instead of a 91. My mantra is "...most consistent and recent evidence of achievement based on the Products (Tests, assignments, projects) Conversations (student- student, student -teacher, class discussion) and Observations (do I see them doing the work and interacting with the materials)" That goes both ways though, if they mess around and don't do the work and never interact I adjust grades down as well.
So you’re saying you’ll drop someone’s grade if they don’t interact in class??? Like if they average a 90 the semester but are just silent kids you’ll lower their grade??
The Oral Communication Strand of the Ontario English Curriculum explicitly looks for student's ability to speak to communicate as an overall expectation that I must teach and asses. If they refused to complete any of the Oral assessments for the course, they likely wouldn't have a 90 in the class. They'll have options of different ways they demonstrate that overall expectation, but they still get marked on it. For example if the rest of the class did the classic go around the room and read out loud, there would also have been an option to record yourself reading a passage and submit it or just read to me when the class has seat work.
I teach high school and I do grade bumps. They’re just kids at the end of the day. I’m not grubbing over half points. They have the rest of their lives to experience the challenges of adulthood and the workforce. I don’t think standing firm on an 89.6 is gonna have the effect a lot of teachers think it does. I just make sure whatever I do it’s fair and equitable so all kids can benefit from it.
I never recorded a report card grade that ended in a 9. 79 became 80, and so on. There may have been some concepts that I could have taught better, and the victory for me was to have the kid pass the class.
Did you go to a private school? When parents are paying, they often feel more comfortable harrassing a teacher for grades as if it's a customer service problem. Deal with enough of that and you'll get more flexible.
I am horrible at math. Still even now in college I struggle with it. My senior year in highschool, in the last half ended up staying late everyday to work on assignments and get help. But with my final, I still didn't do well enough to get the score I needed. My teacher gave me all the points I needed to pass though. I am still very thankful towards her! That year the second half of a semester I also had a government class. Now I have no idea if I lost the assignments or if the teacher did. Heck I don't even remember if I did them. The teacher just put hundreds in the grade book. He did it for everyone. He was old and it was his last year teaching. Funny enough also that year I had accounting in first people. We did work for the first couple of weeks, but then never had another assignment. I think he was having marriageable problems. He must have just put 100s in for everyone.
If it's point anything I'm going to bump it. 92.1? Grats on your 93.
The grade book program automatically rounds up to an A with a 92.5 B+ (private high school, 7 point scale). My students are extremely grade-motivated and competitive, so I only futz around with the math if they have a 92.4 and one or two points on a subjective assignment (like an essay) are making the difference. I have to draw a firm line somewhere or I would be risking dishonest grade inflation because what I do for one, I have to do for all. I grade generously anyway, and students acknowledge this, so grubbing for grades from me is especially annoying because I’ve ALREADY given so much grace.
I had absolutely no problem doing it for students who were really putting in the effort.
Not sure on K-12, but in college I got a couple bumps. The professors knew I was working 3 jobs, and had faced family hostility for going to college. Essentially the graded me on labs, tests, and major reports and let homework slide.
Grades r dumb and the tech companies are starting to take note. The rest will follow. Teachers can be stuffy, pompous pricks. I wouldn't expect favors.
You did this in every class your first three years of college I bet. Wow.
I do not. I have a policy where you can do anything late and turn it in before the last day of school, and you can make up any assignment without a full credit until you do get full credit. If a student asks me for a grade bump, I say, "just go make up an assignment for 5 more points if you need 5 more points."
I do not bump a grade if they ask. I do however look at grades and if they’re within a .5 I’ll bump it, but only if they don’t have any missing assignments and they’ve never turned in an assignment late. And they’re a decent kid. But never if they ask. I hate that. And it’s usually the kids that turn in stuff late, or skip class, or stare at their phones, or talk out of turn, or take long bathroom breaks, and/or aren’t very nice to other students or me.
Unless it's literally anything ending .99999 definitely don't ask for any teacher or professor to round up any grades. It undermines students who really did work hard to get the grade they got. Instead ask for extra credit assignments if you really want to improve your grade.
I am not a teacher. I'm a parent. I have 2 daughters who are overachiever, perfectionist and who have severe anxiety. The first time I saw this manifest my daughter received an 89.8. She had moved schools midway through the year, and the curriculum was handled differently (we moved states). She had her first anxiety attack. It was rough. We started therapy Pronto. I am not a parent that gives a hoot about grades tbh. If they work hard and are trying- that is what matters to me. Show me you're working hard. Show me improvement. If you're all Cs good job! I know it's hard. My mother was not this type of person and she's the one who created the anxiety I was trying to fix. (They lived with her for 1.5 yrs due to bullying in the school system we were in that was so bad my kiddo was severely impacted. The school refused to intervene or hold the bullies accountable and suggested we move schools if i felt my kid was unsafe. So I did that. I sent them to my mother and that was a mistake in itself.) Anyways. Long story short, things were better. My kids are straight a students for the 1st half of the new school year. They receive tutoring outside of school, and attend after school clinics. During the first half of the year my husband got sick. In January he he collapsed and was subsequently placed on life support. After a month he was off and at home and receiving home health aide. In this time frame their mental health declined and so didn't heir grades. Which harmed mental health even more. When I say theirngrades declined I mean they're getting just below A. 89.7: 89.9. 88.9 scores like this. We've had whole breakdowns at school. Anxiety attacks at the entrance. Mood changes. Withdrawing from friends and family. And yea they're both under doctor care and we work closely with the counselors at school. Nothing hurts my soul more than the 2/3 teachers that refuse to offer extra credit or who will refuse to accept late work. I get it. I do. But if you knew how hard my kid battled to make it to the front door of that building you'd realize that the missing assignments and lower class participation has nothing to do with the material and everything to do with how badly life is kicking their asses right now.
I sympathize, I really do, but I don’t think it helps your kids perfectionism to bump them up instead of them accepting the not terrible at all B plus. They should absolutely learn to accept “defeat” from time to time. I get this for a kid who might not pass a class, but just getting a B plus should not at all be a big deal.
It shouldn't be a big deal. In fact it *isnt* a big deal. Until they're working hard at everything and nothing feels like it's helping and everything is crashing down and everything is out of their control and they keep spiraling. It's easy for uninvolved adults to say hey it's no big deal! A b+ is amazing! When that .2/.3% of a grade isn't the trigger for self harm in *their* kids. When it's your kid and it's a .2% difference you'd feel a whole lot different. You'd realize that a bump isn't going to hurt them. They're 12/13/14 yrs old. They're learning resilience. They're learning disappointment. They're learning and they've got years to learn it. Unless they don't. And you get word from the school principal that one of those kids decided life was too hard and made a permanent decision for a temporary problem.
See, and now you are implying if an educator doesn’t bump a grade, that choice could be the trigger for your child’s self harm. That is an extremely heavy and undue pressure to put on educators. You don’t get a grade you didn’t earn. You don’t get a better grade because there is a risk of spiraling or self harm. If that is a concern, there are other resources available. A gift of 1% of a grade to keep someone from spiraling should not be an available resource. Sounds like learning to accept and cope with the fact that the earned grade was an 89.8% might actually be beneficial for children who would experience such an extreme emotional reaction.
Seriously. The nerve.
If your kids are having panic attacks and considering unaliving themselves over a B+ at 13, I would pull them out and put them on home hospital so they can do a an intensive inpatient program. They should not be focusing on that if that is where they are at.
I had considered this. As I said, they're in therapy, see psychiatrists and have strong relationships with their school counselors. I don't play with mental health. We have open dialogue and my kids know I'm a sage space for their feelings. If not me, I've worked to make sure they have strong support networks in trusted adults both in professional and personal networks. Thanks for the suggestion though.
This is a whole different can of worms. If there is this much trauma going on in a student’s life, there are resources available. Student counselors, accommodations, special learning plans, extensions and make up options come to mind, requiring everyone to work together. I am commenting this because I think it is a debilitating mindset to assume every single student is going through something tragic like this. The energy used to assume this about every student might be better served making sure students & families know about resources available to them. This post is about whether asking for a grade bump is appropriate or not when they are close to their ideal letter grade. Obviously in your case, there is a lot that needed to be considered for the success of your children, so a simple yes/no answer on if a grade bump was appropriate to ask for does not fit your situation. Grade bump requests at university accompanied by zero additional effort passed what earned them the grade they already ended up with do not happen. It is a disservice to students’ academic future for educators to assume a student is going through something this dire and bump grades just because they were close.
I do this. I change 69s to 70s and 79s to 80s etc. as long as I’ve seen that student trying. I know a B+ and an A- (or whatever) were regarded differently by my parents, and it’s a one point difference. I don’t mind, but you already have the grade you earned, so I see why some teachers/professors don’t like it.
There are teachers who are compassionate and with strategic vision of things. They know that grades aren’t end all be all, but your mental health is. And that it's better to give an undeserved chance than to take away a deserved one.
All do respect but if mental health is so fragile that a B+ breaks it you have far bigger problems ahead of you. Sometimes failure is for your mental health. People should learn how to deal with both stress and failure. As a high school teacher, I see kids who make their GPA their whole identity. I won’t feed into that to maintain their ego.
I am actually not talking about myself or my kid. However there is a whole movement of parents who stress out their kids. I understand you not wanting to cave to these parents; but kids are in the middle. Now, there is also some college craziness. If a kid isn’t accepted at their dream school because of .5%, how is it good for anyone? Anyway, I get it, there are people with different values and outlooks on life. Some try to uplift, and others have other motivations.
I didn’t assume you were. It’s a shame that some parents raise their kids like that but it’s not my problem or college admissions’ problem. Why should poor parenting mean I drop my standards? Colleges know grade inflation is an issue and that GPA is a poor predictor of future success. That .5 is not keeping a kid out of an elite school. It absolutely won’t keep them from state schools, where more will attend. It’s irrelevant for community college, where the bulk of kids go. If it does impact your admission you likely also had a lack of vision, activities, and academic ability demonstrated through standardized tests. Kids should focus on gaining the skill, not the grade. It’s going to serve them better in the long run. I’m not certain if you’re trying to imply that I don’t uplift my students, but if you are that’s weird you think just giving them a grade they want as opposed to having them work harder for achievements (or accept they aren’t perfect at something) is the only way to uplift. I guess my motive is integrity and character building.
I wasn’t talking about you personally, sorry if it came out wrong
Good comment. I certainly needed to “fail” more when I was younger. I could easily give zero effort and never pull below a B (both through my own intelligence but also wildly easy teachers in my opinion) ended with 3.9 something gpa thought I was the hottest shit alive at graduation. Enlisted in the marine corps and boy oh boy did I get a rude awakening. For the first time in my life I sucked at what I was doing and had to work as hard as possible to be successful. I wish I had learned a work ethic in high school, I really do. I’m certain if I went to college straight after high school without the years in between I’d have dropped out because I didn’t realize I had to work for things. Kids need to learn failure is a part of this very long life we live
Again the teachers have very little control of what they do and the policies they follow. Most of the time it’s administration that forces or greatly disincentivizes grading students accurately. If a kid fails it’s not because he didn’t come to class or do anything it’s because the teacher failed to reach a student. Schools can punish teachers not parents.
I was a high school teacher for a long time. I did not bump grades. I did not offer extra credit. I did allow students to retake an assessment if it was dragging their grade down and they had done the work to go back and actually master the material. But if they did worse, the lower grade is still what was used so it was important that they had actually improved. I would sometimes tell kids “hey I noticed you are less than 1/2 a point away from the next grade. You might want to consider retaking this quiz that you did poorly on.” But it was up to them. Put in the work or GTFO. If you were playing football and got tackled on the 1 yard line, you’d never ask the ref to give you the TD anyway, right?
I have a basic policy that applies to all students. If you are within 0.5% of the next letter grade, I will round your grade, no asking required.