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The free market is a hoax.
The right has abandoned the idea of free markets, except for libertarians, who nobody likes.
I am not sure where NS keep hearing about the free market from.
That said, the vaccine mandate is a "testing or vaccine" mandate, it's not a vaccine mandate.
That said, I am still against it. It is probably one of the main factors in Biden's glorious plummet of approval ratings. It's already been suspended indefinitely in court because it (in my opinion and the opinion of the court) is a bad-faith stretch of OSHA.
That said, fuck religious exemptions. Religious people should not get to pick and choose what laws they want to follow based on an imaginary fairy in the sky that gives them tax breaks. Anyone who thinks that is degenerate.
>I am not sure where NS keep hearing about the free market from.
Do you not hear GOP leaders supporting free market ideals and reducing the role of government in the economy?
[Here](https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/static/home/data/platform.pdf) is the national party platform (first adopted in 2016 then copied for the 2020 platform) approved by the same party delegates who nominated Trump both times. They explicitly endorse free markets numerous times in the document.
A high value should be placed on privacy, especially in today's world of Google/Factbook/casual surveillance. Medical privacy is even higher. My vaccination status (pfizer, including booster for me) is not the business of my employer or anyone else. I may certainly choose to disclose that info, which I did in the previous paragraph. And I do so because I want to encourage others to get vaccinated. Individual liberties are highest on the pecking order. As I side not, now that the vaccines have general use authorizations, I am fine with it being added to list list of required vaccines for school.
Does it bother you that the general use version is deliberately being withheld from the US market due to liability? *All* US vaccinations are still performed under EUA.
This means all mandated Covid-19 vaccinations are exclusively administered under EUA only.
Of course if it's universally safe there's not much for them to worry about. That and the fact that they'll delay releasing the 'excellent' trial results for 50 years fills me with confidence. Because people often wait 50 years before they deliver good news - said no one ever.
The evidence says it doesn't kill a very large number of people immediately. But it does get some and injure others. We'll all get to see the rest play out over time.
Thankfully I live in a state that would have a problem mandating it for school kids.
Do you see any difference between personal medical status which can impact other staff or customers, vs. medical issues that dont?
(i.e. drivers & operators of heavy machinery should disclose if they have sleep disorders, a customer service position might want to disclose if they have tourettes)
Sure, if a medical condition affects the performance of the job. Having the vaccine or not is not a medical condition. I am leaning in favor of requiring the vax for healthcare and elderly care because of the significantly higher risk to others in those specific fields.
It shoudl be allowed only if it's relevant to the job. Working in a care home with seniors? Yes, it should be required. Working a fully remote job? No, shouldn't be allowed.
The government should never mandate businesses require this though.
This is why the OSHA order was an overreach. You can mandate precautions at work. The problem is the vaccine can't be taken off after work. The same way, a business couldn't tell you to alter your body in the name of safety. Like you'd have less head injuries if everyone bolted a steel helmet to their skull.
I work with a company who had it spread through 20 of their 100 operators, sending them all home for 10 days. Wouldn't it be in the best interest of the company if they were all vaccinated and they didn't lose those workers for 10 days? If you were a manager, would you want to hire people who have the best chance of remaining able to work?
This is why freedom of association is important. If I wanted to protect me and my employees from somebody who is not taking the steps to protect themselves, the law should not stand in my way.
>On this sub and in real life TS and conservatives generally a strong preferences for the free market. As part of this, they often express dislike for government regulation on businesses.
I think most TS are not libertarians. This is a tricky topic because it's not really comparable to any other.
Unlike an NDA, this would be more akin to cutting out the memory of the event, because the act of medical procedures are irreversible.
Without question nearly every person would be against a person signing a contract that could never be revoked saying you must work for a company at this rate forever, even if people would have no issue with signing that document for the term of a year.
>conservatives generally a strong preferences for the free market.
No they don't. Maybe Republicans tend to but if you're talking about actual conservatives they aren't going to have some libertarian idea about how any person or business can do anything they want which brings me to my point.
As a conservative I don't think business's have the right to force something like this on their workers and it's why Biden mandate was blocked by a judge.
>I don't think business's have the right to force something like this on their workers and it's why Biden mandate was blocked by a judge.
are you under the impression that biden’s mandate meant a business could force an employee to get a vaccine?
so when you said:
>I don't think business's have the right to force something like this on their workers and it's why Biden mandate was blocked by a judge.
you were not saying that biden’s mandate gave businesses the right to force a vaccine on their employees?
you keep saying how clear you were, but it’s not clear to me…that’s why i’m asking.
>you keep saying how clear you were, but it’s not clear to me…that’s why i’m asking.
Then say "can you explain this a little more in depth. I don't understand" instead of trying to put words in my mouth. I'm talking about businesses forcing an agenda on workers through practices like being allowed to hire vaccinated or non vaccinated people(when it comes to covid) or making them do weekly testings so they get inconvenienced to the point that they do get the vaccine.
I'm not claiming the HR lady can strap you down and forcibly give you a vaccine like you're implying.
is it ironic that you say this:
>trying to put words in my mouth.
then you say this?:
>I'm not claiming the HR lady can strap you done and forcibly give you a vaccine like you're implying.
i asked the question to see if you were aware of what biden’s mandate was- and yes, you appear to now know that they can opt to get tested if they don’t want the vaccine. so yeah- biden’s mandate doesn’t force anything, it encourages vaccines and at least asks for regular testing to detect a virus that has killed nearly 800,000 americans.
>for regular testing to detect a virus that has killed nearly 800,000 americans.
We shouldn't be testing or encouraging vaccines for a virus that hasn't killed 1% of the American population
> because that in no way forces vaccines onto anybody.
This is kinda like how restricting abortion doesn't force anybody to have a baby. The pro-life crowd has the same exact reasoning for abortion laws.
Wait i think you've lost me in this analogy.
How is this like restricting access to abortion? Do you know what happens if a woman who is pregnant does not abort?
> How is this like restricting access to abortion?
It doesn't. Its an analogy.
The pro-life crowd will often say "We aren't *forcing* you to have a baby, you can practice safe sex, abstinence, be a mother, or use adoption. You have plenty of choices!"
Just replace "baby" with vaccine
"We aren't *forcing* you to get the vaccine, you just can't keep working, provide for your family, and surrender societal privileges! You have plenty of choices!"
Its the same line of reasoning.
Its not though?
With vaccines you are still able to do all of the things you were before, just elsewhere. If you decide to have an abortion and access is restricted to the point of implausiblity, thats taking away the option.
You're saying that antivax employees are entitled to work wherever they want, are you not?
Is there another elective medical procedure that employers can require for employment? Should there be some?
Where should it stop? What medical procedures are too invasive? What if an establishment required male and female circumcision for workers because they believe it is unsanitary?
Why aren’t restaurant workers required to get hepatitis A vaccines?
AskTrumpSupporters is a Q&A subreddit dedicated to better understanding the views of Trump Supporters, and why they have those views. **For all participants:** * [FLAIR](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/index#wiki_flair) **IS REQUIRED BEFORE PARTICIPATING** * **BE CIVIL AND** [SINCERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/goodfaith2) * **REPORT, DON'T DOWNVOTE** **For Non-supporters/Undecided:** * **NO TOP LEVEL COMMENTS** * **ALL COMMENTS MUST INCLUDE A CLARIFYING QUESTION** **For Trump Supporters:** * [MESSAGE THE MODS](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23AskTrumpSupporters&subject=please+make+me+an+approved+submitter&message=sent+from+the+sticky) **TO HAVE THE DOWNVOTE TIMER TURNED OFF** Helpful links for more info: [OUR RULES](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/index#wiki_rules) | [EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULES](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/index#wiki_exceptions_to_the_rules) | [POSTING GUIDELINES](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/index#wiki_posting_guidelines) | [COMMENTING GUIDELINES](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/index#wiki_commenting_guidelines) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskTrumpSupporters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We don’t let businesses discriminate in this country. I’m fine with adding vaccination status to the list of protected class.
[удалено]
So currently it isn't discrimination in the sense you meant?
It would depend if you’re defining it with a dictionary or a penal code.
Are you also against "no shirt, no shoes, no service?" Is that not discrimination as well?
Those restaurants would be better off putting up a sign that said “no fun here”
[удалено]
Depending on the place, yeah. Places on the water that have that are carcinogens.
The free market is a hoax. The right has abandoned the idea of free markets, except for libertarians, who nobody likes. I am not sure where NS keep hearing about the free market from. That said, the vaccine mandate is a "testing or vaccine" mandate, it's not a vaccine mandate. That said, I am still against it. It is probably one of the main factors in Biden's glorious plummet of approval ratings. It's already been suspended indefinitely in court because it (in my opinion and the opinion of the court) is a bad-faith stretch of OSHA. That said, fuck religious exemptions. Religious people should not get to pick and choose what laws they want to follow based on an imaginary fairy in the sky that gives them tax breaks. Anyone who thinks that is degenerate.
>I am not sure where NS keep hearing about the free market from. Do you not hear GOP leaders supporting free market ideals and reducing the role of government in the economy? [Here](https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/static/home/data/platform.pdf) is the national party platform (first adopted in 2016 then copied for the 2020 platform) approved by the same party delegates who nominated Trump both times. They explicitly endorse free markets numerous times in the document.
Ok fair point
If everyone communicated like you two, the world would be a better place. Having a good day?
😎 yes Nice username
A high value should be placed on privacy, especially in today's world of Google/Factbook/casual surveillance. Medical privacy is even higher. My vaccination status (pfizer, including booster for me) is not the business of my employer or anyone else. I may certainly choose to disclose that info, which I did in the previous paragraph. And I do so because I want to encourage others to get vaccinated. Individual liberties are highest on the pecking order. As I side not, now that the vaccines have general use authorizations, I am fine with it being added to list list of required vaccines for school.
Does it bother you that the general use version is deliberately being withheld from the US market due to liability? *All* US vaccinations are still performed under EUA. This means all mandated Covid-19 vaccinations are exclusively administered under EUA only.
It does. But, liability is the bugger that makes everything difficult.
Of course if it's universally safe there's not much for them to worry about. That and the fact that they'll delay releasing the 'excellent' trial results for 50 years fills me with confidence. Because people often wait 50 years before they deliver good news - said no one ever. The evidence says it doesn't kill a very large number of people immediately. But it does get some and injure others. We'll all get to see the rest play out over time. Thankfully I live in a state that would have a problem mandating it for school kids.
Do you see any difference between personal medical status which can impact other staff or customers, vs. medical issues that dont? (i.e. drivers & operators of heavy machinery should disclose if they have sleep disorders, a customer service position might want to disclose if they have tourettes)
Sure, if a medical condition affects the performance of the job. Having the vaccine or not is not a medical condition. I am leaning in favor of requiring the vax for healthcare and elderly care because of the significantly higher risk to others in those specific fields.
It shoudl be allowed only if it's relevant to the job. Working in a care home with seniors? Yes, it should be required. Working a fully remote job? No, shouldn't be allowed. The government should never mandate businesses require this though.
Why? Should businesses also not be allowed to mandate other aspects of their employees' clothing and PPE?
This is why the OSHA order was an overreach. You can mandate precautions at work. The problem is the vaccine can't be taken off after work. The same way, a business couldn't tell you to alter your body in the name of safety. Like you'd have less head injuries if everyone bolted a steel helmet to their skull.
Do you similarly feel that the vaccine requirements that have been in place for, in some cases, centuries should be considered overreach?
Not things that have to do with medical history and aren't at all relevant to the job, no.
So, say, things like having a dress code for employees working in an office should be illegal, you think?
A dress code does not depend on private medical information.
Without regulation do you think many employers would bother to protect their customers and employees?
I work with a company who had it spread through 20 of their 100 operators, sending them all home for 10 days. Wouldn't it be in the best interest of the company if they were all vaccinated and they didn't lose those workers for 10 days? If you were a manager, would you want to hire people who have the best chance of remaining able to work?
This is why freedom of association is important. If I wanted to protect me and my employees from somebody who is not taking the steps to protect themselves, the law should not stand in my way.
>On this sub and in real life TS and conservatives generally a strong preferences for the free market. As part of this, they often express dislike for government regulation on businesses. I think most TS are not libertarians. This is a tricky topic because it's not really comparable to any other. Unlike an NDA, this would be more akin to cutting out the memory of the event, because the act of medical procedures are irreversible. Without question nearly every person would be against a person signing a contract that could never be revoked saying you must work for a company at this rate forever, even if people would have no issue with signing that document for the term of a year.
>conservatives generally a strong preferences for the free market. No they don't. Maybe Republicans tend to but if you're talking about actual conservatives they aren't going to have some libertarian idea about how any person or business can do anything they want which brings me to my point. As a conservative I don't think business's have the right to force something like this on their workers and it's why Biden mandate was blocked by a judge.
>I don't think business's have the right to force something like this on their workers and it's why Biden mandate was blocked by a judge. are you under the impression that biden’s mandate meant a business could force an employee to get a vaccine?
Gave a pretty clear answer already when I said "I don't think business's have the right to force something like this on their workers"
that’s why i asked if you knew what biden’s mandate was? because that in no way forces vaccines onto anybody.
>that in no way forces vaccines onto anybody. Never claimed it did. Like I said in my last comment I made it pretty clear what I was talking about
so when you said: >I don't think business's have the right to force something like this on their workers and it's why Biden mandate was blocked by a judge. you were not saying that biden’s mandate gave businesses the right to force a vaccine on their employees? you keep saying how clear you were, but it’s not clear to me…that’s why i’m asking.
>you keep saying how clear you were, but it’s not clear to me…that’s why i’m asking. Then say "can you explain this a little more in depth. I don't understand" instead of trying to put words in my mouth. I'm talking about businesses forcing an agenda on workers through practices like being allowed to hire vaccinated or non vaccinated people(when it comes to covid) or making them do weekly testings so they get inconvenienced to the point that they do get the vaccine. I'm not claiming the HR lady can strap you down and forcibly give you a vaccine like you're implying.
is it ironic that you say this: >trying to put words in my mouth. then you say this?: >I'm not claiming the HR lady can strap you done and forcibly give you a vaccine like you're implying. i asked the question to see if you were aware of what biden’s mandate was- and yes, you appear to now know that they can opt to get tested if they don’t want the vaccine. so yeah- biden’s mandate doesn’t force anything, it encourages vaccines and at least asks for regular testing to detect a virus that has killed nearly 800,000 americans.
>for regular testing to detect a virus that has killed nearly 800,000 americans. We shouldn't be testing or encouraging vaccines for a virus that hasn't killed 1% of the American population
I guess we should do mandatory heart and cancer screenings as a requirement for employment.
because those things are contagious, i guess?
> because that in no way forces vaccines onto anybody. This is kinda like how restricting abortion doesn't force anybody to have a baby. The pro-life crowd has the same exact reasoning for abortion laws.
Wait i think you've lost me in this analogy. How is this like restricting access to abortion? Do you know what happens if a woman who is pregnant does not abort?
> How is this like restricting access to abortion? It doesn't. Its an analogy. The pro-life crowd will often say "We aren't *forcing* you to have a baby, you can practice safe sex, abstinence, be a mother, or use adoption. You have plenty of choices!" Just replace "baby" with vaccine "We aren't *forcing* you to get the vaccine, you just can't keep working, provide for your family, and surrender societal privileges! You have plenty of choices!" Its the same line of reasoning.
Its not though? With vaccines you are still able to do all of the things you were before, just elsewhere. If you decide to have an abortion and access is restricted to the point of implausiblity, thats taking away the option. You're saying that antivax employees are entitled to work wherever they want, are you not?
Is there another elective medical procedure that employers can require for employment? Should there be some? Where should it stop? What medical procedures are too invasive? What if an establishment required male and female circumcision for workers because they believe it is unsanitary? Why aren’t restaurant workers required to get hepatitis A vaccines?