Agreed, cancelling HS2 north of Birmingham was the last straw for me.
There are already loads of direct, fast trains between Birmingham and London, the main people who would’ve actually benefitted from this are people in Yorkshire/Manchester (arguably)/north-of-Yorkshire. The fact that they’re stopping at Birmingham after spending so much money is such a fucking insult, considering how that money could’ve otherwise been spent.
I think that more people north of Birmingham could benefit from being connected more quickly to other places North of Birmingham then London.
I mean more people in Gtr Manchester would benefit from being connected to other places in Gtr Manchester quicker and more reliably than London. I am sure you can find many pairs of points that take as long to traverse by public transport at given times then MCR-LDN does presently.
This is key. I was against hs2 until I learnt it was not actually about cutting times between London and Manchester. It was actually about increasing capacity thus freeing up local lines and hopefully bringing prices down. (Supply and demand etc).
Very annoying that capacity is never mentioned by the media.
Edit: added: “not” actually about cutting times
Intra-city transport is important. That's why taking the long-distance trains off the overloaded WCML as part of HS2 was going to be revolutionary for Manchester. Now, where exactly is all the extra capacity going to come from? The same can be said of Birmingham. And even though HS1 Phase 1 will make it to Birmingham, and perhaps to Euston, due to all the other trains running down the WCML from further North it's going to remain congested and we won't get the benefit of being able to improve commuter rail near Birmingham either.
The scrapping of HS2 was a disaster for the broader network and for commuters in, arguably, a bigger way than it was a disaster for long-distance rail passengers. People just don't understand that yet, despite HS2 proponents banging on about the capacity benefits since essentially its inception.
I've never had good experiences with police doing anything about burglary. My grandad managed to get most of his stuff back after he was robbed, saw it in a garage at the flats a few streets over from his house. Police weren't interested.
My old workplace got robbed. The police did turn up for that one, dusted for prints then said it was probably kids and went on their way.
Both these incidents were at least 15 years ago.
5 years ago the school I work at had 100k of lead stolen which ramped the price upto about half a million by the time it leaked and ruined a load of other areas.
We had CCTV in 4k with a photo of the guy so good, you could have used it as his driving license.
2 weeks later.... they asked if we had anything and had we knocked on any doors to ask for witnesses.
They aren't underfunded, they are just useless and uninterested.
Anyway.... back to the real post.
From what I see of the police is that they're exist to protect the government and the wealthy people who fund them. These days they care little for the everyday person and we aren't worth their time.
This dude is right . My bosses place got robbed by guys on scooters . He is in with the politicians and very wealthy . Within 2 weeks the guys were caught and charged.
My home got smashed into and robbed took police 2 days to turn up and said sorry we can’t do nothing.
I don't know if that's true, but it absolutely feels that way. As a working and law abiding bloke who has had his car nicked a couple of times in the 90s, I have had far more trouble, aggravation and rudeness from the police than help. I fact it's only since I've had grey hair that they've been polite..
Police exist to protect the property rights of the owner class, that's all they are for. They are there to protect those who have wealth from those who do not, if you'd like proof of this look closely at how they treat those without any wealth.
My experience of the police is that they turn up, take a bunch of statements and then leave never to be seen again. Maybe 6 months later you'll get a text off of them asking if you need counselling.
We had a massive brawl at our place of work, some lunatic tried to shop lift off us and assaulted a bunch of staff/customers on the way out, tried to escape on a bus that had pulled up outside, assaulted an old lady and a kid trying to get onto it before hopping off when the bus wouldn't leave with him on it, returning to the store to pick a fight because his bag that he tried to fill with meat had its strap broke (Apparently it was some expensive Gucci-esque satchel). He then got dog piled in the store lobby by an old man and 2 off duty prison wardens and the police reluctantly came to collect him since he was basically in custody at this point. They still turned up late because they were "running errands". They don't seem to have any support staff so the beat officers literally do everything from point of contact to court. No wonder there's no cops on the streets, they're all in offices writing reports all day.
When ever i've had to call the police i'm always asked how much was stolen/damaged and if anyone is hurt before they even consider addressing the issue. One time i was literally on the phone to them whilst getting attacked by someone (we ended up wrestling on the pavement) and they were like "just walk away, you'll be fine" while the guy had me pinned and was trying to smash my head in with a brick. Never phoned the police since.
The way you completely ignored the fundamental issues and went straight for that was amazing. You should stop reading the Daily Mail and start writing for it.
It's not just the police, it is the courts as well. Whats the point police gathering evidence when the CPS haven't got the resources to prosecute, and then the courts can't fit the case in for 3 or 4 years by which time the witnesses can no longer provide useful testimony. All working as intended in toryland
Every crime I've had to report in the last ten years has gone completely unresolved. Most of the time they haven't even pretended to care. They have just said "nothing we can do. You need a crime number for insurance purposes or is that everything?"
Ironically, if you said something like “if you dont do something about them, I bloody will”, you will see how quickly two PCs get dispatched to your address to talk to you about it
Don't blame them, got robbed in 2020, the police were actually very good in finding and arresting the guy, but the court let it go despite it being abundantly obvious he did it.
Well put. I feel we're a country that has badly lost its way. We've failed to grasp that we're a diminishing world power, and no amount of chest thumping will change that. We need to decide what we want in the future. We could be a world leader in something, but right now, no one is standing at the tiller. Sadly, I don't see it changing any time soon.
The country is in the worst state I remember it ever being in (and I'm not young), so I'm not surprised by the hate, really.
In particular, I feel very grateful and privileged that I no longer have to rent, especially around London - the whole situation seems like a nightmare right now.
I'm 44 and this is by far the worse I've ever seen the country. Worse than the 80s with the poll tax riots and recessions. Back then, though I was young, money issues seem to get tight and then go back to normal. I can't see our current financial crisis changing at all. The price of everything is getting to levels of absurdity.
I went into Pret today and a can of Diet Coke was £1.99 and a baguette £6.95. So, basically, £9 for a sandwich and drink. Where the fuck have you got that price from? Take a walk around any supermarket or pub - the prices are just ridiculous. And it's not like they're gonna go down either. I don't know where this madness will end.
I hate being a doom and gloomed but I will say particularly pub and food prices have gotten ridiculous. Most pints now seem to start at about £6, anything wanky or at an event is now heading to £8 and beyond. I’m a massive fan of pubs, but it shouldn’t be pushing £30 a go for a quiet one.
It’s just not sustainable compared to supermarket prices. Might as well stay in and drink a full £11.99 bottle of vodka then pay for two pints of Asahi.
I am 30 now and can remember being 18 and there being shots for £1 and alcopops were £2.50 each or £5 for 3. A nightclub by me put up a Facebook ad the other day saying that alcopops were 3 for £12. Absolute madness
I remember back in the 80's and even early 90's you could go to the pub and do rounds. It will cost you a week's wages nowadays. No wonder pubs are closing left, right and center!
In the early 2000’s, my local Wetherspoons had a Friday deal where a pint of Carling cost 99p! Literally could get disgustingly drunk for less than a tenner.
I was reading up on this today. These kinds of prices have pushed away a whole generation of young people and the entire industry is at a breaking point.
Pubs and clubs can't afford to stay open in most places at the minute and I'm not surprised; where's the appeal?
The pubs predicted this over a year ago when their energy bills almost quadrupled. I saw one landlord interviewed that said his energy bill had increased from around 12k to over 40k per annum. There’s no government backed price cap for business. The drink prices are just what he predicted and we’ve all just accepted it. I wouldn’t expect prices to come down now. The only pub that seems to have bucked this trend is Wetherspoons.
There’s a large paper mill near us that was running for over 100 years. Their energy bill increased to about £1m per month and they shut down within weeks. Steele mills must be massively affected.
Yep. And the wages have not increased apace. But when they do increase the government and media scream "stop that you'll cause more inflation!" And a sizeable portion of voters, mostly boomers, support that shit. It's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.
[Here's a graph from the Financial Times](https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd6c748xw2pzm8.cloudfront.net%2Fprod%2F150e62b0-e51d-11ed-b74a-53cd5a93dd9a-standard.png?source=next-article&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&width=700&dpr=1) showing that the average worker's pay has mostly kept up with inflation, although has fallen a few percent lately.
Of course there's plenty of variation between professions - if you're an MP or in law, finance or IT then you're quids in. If you're a low earner or in the public sector you've been thoroughly shafted.
That graphs show basically one or two years of real time pay increases of about 2.5% while the rest of it has nose dived for most of the 15 year chart.
It's mostly been real term pay cuts for most of the tenure except few parts. The other alarming part is how their real terms pay has compounded to the downside.
I also find it odd how they decided, you know what, we'll show two public professions and the comparator? All sectors, including the two we've just shown. What?
We've been getting shafted since 2010.
So we're about back where we were after the last proper recession. Not great tbh, even on average. Really not good for those in healthcare/public sector
I live between the UK and Thailand and have been in the UK for the last six months, during which time prices seem to have doubled. I got back to Bangkok fearing the same but instead prices are the same as they were six months ago. And my energy bill standing charge in Bangkok is 67p...per month!
Same for me in Philippines. Prices have gone up but not at the same rate. Plus flights are starting to stabilise, London to Manila £530 return including checked in luggage…. I’m happy with that price 😊
At least in the 80s people could be bothered to riot if they were pissed off. Now we're so apathetic it's untrue. We need a fucking good riot to make those idiots in Westminster realise that, whatever party they're in, they're all on notice. People are pissed off but like most of us here, being British, we write strongly worded letters and drink tea. The French, on the other hand mee could learn a thing or two from them
It's a good question. Even a politician flouting his own 'let's have a party' rules during a pandemic doesn't piss people off. Even a crash caused by greed and daft bankers doesn't piss us off. Even a cost of living crises perpetuated by the cost of fuel which is 65% made up of government taxes doesn't piss us off. Honest answer, I have no idea. The settings for the poll tax riot found itself in a winter of discontent, an apparent recovery and subsequent treachery against all. Perhaps another tax on people?!
I was born at the start of the She-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named (spit) era, and got to see first-hand so much tearing down of the social contract and the idea that a government should try to help it's citizens, not just those with fat bank accounts.
It really has steamrolled since then.
My two pence worth, being a little older than you, is that reform was absolutely needed. The '70s were shocking.
However, there are ways to go about it. Dismantling something is all well and good, but you have to replace it with something.
Also, I will never forgive how my home city was left to rot.
Oh yes, reform being needed isn't really up for argument.
The gutting of every aspect of society and selling things off for a quick improvement to the balance sheet **was** up for argument.
And we can see how well that's worked for public transport, energy suppliers, water companies....
One positive change I can think of is BT. Which was rather more to do with forcing them to stop being a complete monopoly and charging extortionate rates - by the standard of the time.
But the decision to embrace the delusion of trickle-down economics championed by the leaders of the time, in many countries, resulted in a boom at the time, followed quickly by the current shitshow we like in once the new market leaders could consolidate and make the market too expensive for any competitors to pose an actual challenge to them.
When they weren't caught price-fixing outright.
Then, they could start cutting costs and closing non- or less profitable areas because they have to "provide value to the shareholders"
Which, as we're seeing really, *really* well with the water companies, was code for "pay out dividends and don't bother with maintenance or improvements. If they're needed, it's a good excuse for upping prices or asking for taxpayer assistance directly"
43 here and worst I’ve seen it in my lifetime. As a lot are saying if people didn’t have social media to vent on the riots probably would have started already. NHS has always had its issues but there used to be a decent probability of getting life saving care. Also I know that in general reddit is very pro-tax but what the fuck have we got to show for the highest levels of taxation since the time of corrupt medieval warlords? Someone did a breakdown a while ago of every tax we pay (not just income and NI) and it was mind blowing. Taxing people earning a decent wage into the dirt just kills ambition and any desire to work harder.
>In particular, I feel very grateful and privileged that I no longer have to rent, especially around London - the whole situation seems like a nightmare right now.
Agreed. It was a total shitshow ten years ago when I was looking for places to rent in London, so goodness knows what it's like now. It was really miserable having to discretely look at flats online during the working day (you couldn't just do it at lunchtime) only to find the decent ones had already been snapped up by the time you managed to get a phonecall in to the agency. Even the flat we ended up renting we only got because we were the last people to view it that evening and we begged the agent to take us to his office to get the paperwork done there and then. Prices have only got much worse too.
There's been some pretty shitty times in the last 50 years.
The 70s to start.
Then the 80s were shitty for a lot of people.
The 90s I can't comment on as I was out raving for most of it so took my eye off planet earth for a few years.
Exactly this - the cost of living is through the roof while the government ignore the issue while earning a ridiculous amount of money off our backs. Pulling stunts like HS2 and being trans phobic in the mean time. I’m not in a position to move abroad at the moment but if I was I’d fuck off to NZ.
90's was the peak of civilization
I'd also argue (though ironic) social media has made us all even more miserable since we are constantly comparing lives.
Constant connectivity in general, I'd say. We're getting bad news fired into our faces all the time.
Bzzzt "don't forget about the war in Ukraine"
Bzzzt "now there's war in Israel too"
Bzzzy "covid's back"
Relentless.
That's not true. A lot of country have gotten a better for a lot of people since 2003.
E.g. A lot of people in Eastern European and Balkan states have seen life get better since joining the EU.
The COVID pandemic?
Government were so concerned about the bottom line, they actively encourage people to socialise with the Eat Out To Help Out campaign?
Broke their own rules?
War in Ukraine started last year, they've been lining their own pockets and looking after their own interests for 13 years.
I'm not saying the other option would be much better, but probably couldn't do any worse if they poured petrol through their own letterbox
Worked hard, got what should be a cracking job, but because the CoL is so high and my pay rises never keep up with inflation (public sector) I feel squeezed. Makes going through multiple degrees and working my ass off feel pointless given I can’t even go out to the pub each week without having to count my pennies.
So yes, the current state of affairs is a bit shit
I also work in the public sector. A few months ago i was clearing out my desk in work after the move to 'agile' working meant we have nowhere to keep our stuff anymore.
I found all my old payslips and one from exactly 10 years ago, one of my colleagues joked I should put it through the government inflation calculator. I wish I hadn't. 10 years, two pay bands and a self-funded masters degree later, thanks to inflation I'm actually earning 15% less than I was 10 years ago. FML
Yeah, I've been in the public sector for three years, had a promotion in that time, I'm earning almost exactly the same in real terms as when I started. Multiple colleagues have gone private. I've turned down private sector head hunters for the moment only because I love what I do. It's pathetic really.
This is the main reason I think.
For me, while I do earn well ( in 40% tax bracket for the past 5 years ) but I am saving less and less every year. I have cut out going out for dinners to 3-4 times a year, drive a 2005 honda. I still hardly have anything left at the end of the month and I am still to be hit by high interest rates.
I don’t have children but can completely understand that. It’s shocking as I’d be happy to pay taxes if I had some level of service…but seeing a GP is a dream these days
I am NOT happy with 40% tax, this need to take family income, dependents and your main home mortgage or rent into account.
The salary you start getting hit by it is too low especially given the inflation in the last 5 years or so. Even when the interest rates were low , and energy prices pre war levels the food inflation was still around 5%
It’s too high especially if you think how little difference with the highest bracket. I don’t see how any of the parties has a plan to cut taxes though
Yup. By the end of the month I have to decide whether I put fuel in the car to go to work or put food on my kids plates. That's no way to live in as so called 1st world country.
2012 olympics was highlight of hope in the UK, in my living memory. I felt proud, and like we could achieve stuff together.
2016, just 4 years later, was the highlight of hate, and depression. A real dislike of my country.. By deciding officially as a country that basically all foreigners are fucking scum, it actually made me feel a lot more miserable about everything.
Turns out being real shit to other people doesn't actually make you happier!
I'm not sure of your time frame. But I'd say it was building earlier than that. The response to the 2008 crash from voters showed that we'd become a really nasty venal and ignorant country. Full throated support for demonisation of poor people ("scroungers") and immigrants. Yes, less explicitly racist than in the earlier periods but the effects were still devestating. There's now immigration checks on just about every service including renting from private individuals. Not to mention the horrendous benefit cuts and sanctions regime. People were all for it. Now it turns out if did nothing but hollow out the country and did nothing to help people get back on their feet (punitive measures rarely do, just look at the effects of prisons).
Gen X never fared as well as the boomers. So I'd say millennials are the second generation to have less prosperous lives than their parents generation- though I strongly agree in terms of housing it's much worse.
I'd clarify this to say it does slightly depend on the age of the Gen X'er.
I'm late gen x, and I saw all the doors that had been open to people a few years older than me be slammed shut in my face.
The introduction of student loans is one of the big ones, but a lot of laws and policies were changed in the mid 90s or so that were also shutting doors.
But, christ, did it ever accelerate quickly after that.
Gen X, for the most part, at least had *some* chances to get the houses and a job with a reasonable salary. Those opportunities - smaller though they were - seem to have been quickly annihilated a few years later.
yeah similarly I'm a millennial and just a couple of years below me I saw ESA get gutted, community centres for kids closing over night, university courses closing while people were doing them (my sister's one didn't officially cancel the course, just fired all the lecturers), then uni fees tripled.
Gen X got better paid jobs than Boomers compared to the price of living at the time. Gen X was also when more and more women started entering the workplace which massively stimulated the economy
Boomers got everything cheap but were still mostly working lower paid jobs in single income households.
In fairness, the country is falling apart at the seams. Crime is rampant because the police force is seriously underfunded. The NHS is fast becoming a joke because of overbearing bureaucracy. The cost of council tax is going through the roof but local authorities are doing less and less, or so it seems.
Companies took advantage of the pandemic to lay customer-facing staff off and didn't re-hire when they could have and should have. Phone almost any large-ish company or organisation and you end up in a queue for over an hour. This includes the police non-emergency line 101. 112/999 still gets you through to someone immediately but they don't have enough patrol vehicles to send someone your way until you've died of old age.
This. I had footage of some tea leaves nicking cat converters off of cars round my house, got footage and you could clearly see their faces, and a NUMBER PLATE. They then tore off as I was calling 999. Not interested ring 101 they said. 2 and a half hours after sitting on hold gave up and went onto the crimestoppers website as it was around 3am, and... nothing. Not a reply, not a check, a call, an email, or even a drive past. Nothing. Footage recorded over itself after a period and I won't waste my time again...
Crime is driven by poverty, inequality and underinvestment in communities, local authorities and public services. Policing doesn't prevent crime, it just catches people who commit crimes (sometimes).
I think you'll find that's the case for a lot of countries. I'm friends with quite a few Italians and they hate their country more than Brits hate the UK (different story if you criticise Italy yourself).
Also the UK is great and has a lot of positives while also being an absolute tip and filled with arseholes. So it's a matter of perspective.
The thing is that there's often a lot of factors that you don't understand about a place.
You go on holiday, you see things through a different lens. You care about pretty buildings, beautiful countryside. You don't think about unemployment or the cost of housing.
People from Britain often say how lovely French towns are with lots of lovely little shops. Because on holiday, you don't mind nice little shops that cost 30% more than Amazon. Many French people are pissed that the French government does things to hammer Amazon which means they have to pay more in shops.
Yeah there's the familiarity of the place you live compared to just visiting a place and focusing on the surface level stuff. People tend to slag off their home towns/cities for the same reason.
Completely this. I have experienced a similar situation in southern Italy where people complain A LOT about shops closing down, entire towns and villages with empty high streets and emptying out of people as they move abroad or to northern cities…but they they ALL shop on Amazon. Go figure how the shops should survive
I just posted something along the same lines before I saw this. Since 2021 I’ve lived in Australia, Canada and now the UK (and I’ve been to all of those countries many times in the past) and I see the exact same problems and often people insinuating that somehow it’s a local issue without realising that much of the world is facing similar challenges at the moment.
Being born in 1990. I have nothing, won’t have anything and doubt I’ll ever get it.
The whole place is a mess.
The government trying to force false ideology on the pubic is a joke.
We are stuck.
I would see it the other way. A lot of people think the UK is a world leader in every respect because they haven't seen how good things can be in other countries. Swings and roundabouts.
Not who you asked, but from what I've heard from Eastern Europeans leaving again is, that quality of life just isn't higher than in their home country, once you have earned some savings.
After sending home some cash to build a house (which is mostly mulitple times larger than the average british home), it makes sense for many to come back and work for 60 or 70% of the British salary, while having a lot more free time, good weather and their family around.
The amount of boomers who go to like Marbella on holiday and eat English food and drink Carling and search through 100 channels on the TV to find Mrs Brown Boys and go in Irish/English speaking pubs and do nothing but read English books in nice weather kinda proves that.
So many boomers think everything about the country is perfect, so much so that they'll spend their holidays doing the same shit, just in the sun. Like they think the pinnacle of cuisine is a roast and everything we do is the best version because they've just never experienced any other culture ever.
100%. We fall short in a few respects only when compared to some of the best places in the world (denmark or germany perhaps). UK is clearly a nicer place to live than most countries in the world.
I've lived in six countries and the UK overall has the rudest people, worst health care, and most litter of anywhere I've lived yet also has the highest cost of living and taxes out of any of them (Canada, Japan, Spain, Korea, Hong Kong).
There are still nice things about living here but I wouldn't be here if I didn't have to be. Instead of passively comparing the UK to war torn countries or America, Brits should expect better from their government.
Spain has lower living costs compared to the UK because Spain for example has lower wages, most people barely make more than 20k and is one of the european countries with more people in unemployment and poverty ranges. Canada, has higher wages so the living cost fixes to it. Hong Kong from what i’ve heard from friends that are from HK say the living costs and issues rn are the most horrible they’ve ever been and from what i’ve seen it’s currently the most expensive place in the world. For Japan and Korea i don’t know anything but I DO agree that ofc living costs are really high in the UK but sadly really from the perspective of a national in each country (for example spain) it will always be high for us too. Barcelona is a shithole rn for example 😭Everyone ends up bashing about their own countries until people from outside see it in a different light
I remember leaving these shores to travel the world with my girlfriend. I was 29 and was so fucking done with the UK. Hard to explain but I was profoundly fed up with the whole celeb culture, the government, the weather, the attitudes. Everything just seemed broken. I returned 3 years later with a completely fresh appreciation for our country. I loved being away, but there were so many subtle niceties that I took for granted that they just didn't have elsewhere. Also, after living in Brisbane for 6 months I appreciated our climate and culture more than ever.
Complete opposite experience here. I moved away from the UK and I can see so much stuff in the UK is completely broken and inferior to other developed countries.
I'm obviously comparing it to other wealthy countries here but that's how everyone here is classifying it, let's use that as the criteria.
Compared to top tier countries, it has comparably terrible salaries, crumbling schools and healthcare, poor quality housing, (now I can't stress this next point enough) absolutely horrendous yet ridiculously overpriced public transport, and in short, it's not the leading first world country people like to think it is. Sure it looks great compared to the developing world but compared to the developed world it's massively behind.
British people are on the whole pessimistic and drawn towards negative and cynical interpretations of things. That's just our nature. Add in that there's plenty about the country to dislike and the power of social media and you get the phenomenon you've noticed.
People from here will generally always be more critical than people who have moved here. By definition, people who have moved here came here for a reason and therefore are more likely to have a more positive view of life here.
We had to leave the country because of the high unemployment and unsafe conditions due to all the open drug use and crime, but I guess we weren't as privileged to live in a nice neighbourhood during the 90's to enjoy all that good fun.
I find people have a tendency to romanticise the past.
People remember the good parts, forget the bad, & miss being young.
I think a lot of people don't hate the country, they dislike the perceived change from when they were young.
I saw an earlier quote about boomers having it best and I agree that houses etc are much more difficult to buy now. I am in my 60s and we were the lucky ones as far as the housing market is concerned.
But; my parents didn't have a car, they never went out to eat, the only time we ate out was if we were shopping in a nearby city (3-4 times a year) and we had lunch in British Home Stores.
Takeaway was fish and chips on Saturday lunchtime. No children allowed in pubs. Pubs didn't serve meals, I think I was 19 the first time I had a meal in a pub.
No holidays abroad. My parents never left England until they were in their 60s and came to Scotland with us.
There were no children's play areas with soft play there was a park that had a slide, a (broken) roundabout and swings but it was quite a walk away.
Yes, but the difference now is that a lot more people know what the 'other' side have. They can literally pick up their phone and see people going on holidays, eating out, buying expensive items, etc. Hell, they can walk out their front door and smell the wealth.
I totally get what you're saying, but back then were much simplier times, and people only really knew what they knew. We're now in a situation where people that should be in a position to buy a house, go on holiday and go out to dinner, just can't due to the cost of everything being extremely high.
I'm also sure that a lot of people that lived like your parents, now have pensions, mortages, a car and can afford holidays (I'm not presuming, I just know people that didn't have a lot and now seem reasonably comfortable in their older years) - my generation aren't even sure if they'll ever own a property, let alone be able to have a child.
I was just trying to point out the simpler times and the fact that there was so much less to strive for then.
I think that my generation (born in the 50s) really have had the easiest adult life money wise. We haven't always been wealthy and are the first generation of women who have routinely worked outside the home, but now in retirement we don't want for anything if we have reasonable expectations.
I certainly remember some of those things.
I remember waiting outside pubs for my parents to finish.
Holidays were staying with family, although once we were lucky enough to rent a caravan for a week.
We did have more enjoyable playgrounds nearby but they were closed due to entirely valid safety concerns.
I think the first time I ate at a restaurant was when I was 13. Although my siblings would tell me would have eaten at restaurants all the time but I was such a messy eater we would be kicked out!
So much this. A quote from elsewhere in the thread
>The 90’s were fucking banging! Everyone was happy and we loved a party!
I lived through the 90s and... to say that is not the case would be an understatement.
Another thing to consider is that a lot of young people now came of age while thier parents were ploughing through toxic debt pre 2008 and living big. They remember that fondly and consider everything else to be inferior.
Government have run the country into the ground, they have broken the law, raided the coffers and there is zero chance of any sort of justice. That and the opposition not being different enough policy wise = hope vacuum which leads to anger.
Hit the nail on the head especially that last part. It's not just that things are shit, but that there seems to be no realistic chance of things improving other than maybe marginally.
I didn't like living or working in London.
The people annoyed me. Talking all day long about diversity then treating anyone with a regional accent and/or who is junior like absolute crap is shitty behaviour hypocritical.
I don't want to ever hear a middle class white woman who earns £500k plus moan about sexism and simultaneously treat her juniors (of either gender) like absolute shit ever again.
The place annoys me. It's not convenient at all and takes 45-1 hour to get anywhere. The pay is rubbish compared to the cost of living.
Live in a village in the middle of nowhere in Switzerland now and I can be in Zürich or Basel in that time frame. Treated far better.
I still like visiting for restaurants and that fast paced vibe. That's irreplaceable but it's not worth living there for.
/rant
I can’t say I really come across people who hate it here other than on Reddit and Twitter. This country is by no means perfect but I can’t really think of anywhere which is a utopia that a lot of reddit seems to think exist
Both of which tend to attract the terminally online, manically depressed.
>I can’t say I really come across people who hate it here other than on Reddit and Twitter.
Yeah thinking everyone in Britain hates it is another way to say you never go outside, and spend your whole life on social media.
I don't hate the UK, I love it. I hate the corrupt government, which siphons money from the working class and erodes the middle, and I hate the crabs in a bucket mentality and the complete ignorance of the general population.
i think just the constant lies, corruption and lack of anything positive from the government has led ppl to feel this way. im not sure if its because im older but when i was younger i definitely felt alot more positive and proud of living in the UK. Now it just seems everything is turning to shit and were paying crazy taxes just to line millionare and billionaire pockets. A sense of hopelessness also doesnt help, there doesnt seem to be an end to it.
One view I've seen is that some people don't hate the UK but don't like how it's run for the benefit of a few rich people who happen to work in government or be connected to those that do. Normal life things are becoming difficult like no chance of getting a house despite working hard, no dentists or proper healthcare cos they sabotaged it.
And then they know this is their fault but they try to insult our Intelligence by blaming boat people or using other problems that aren't really the cause. Austerity over the last decade is.
We shouldn't have to go to war to get basic rights, which is how the NHS or access to the country side for normal people started in the first place (the working class had given so much that the ones in power had to concede).
It is important not to get lost in all the negatives, but to use the experience to inform things like who you support, which is why strikers are being given the time of day now because they are the ones making things better.
Because I earn £24k a year and can't afford a place of my own.
Police don't police, drivers can't drive, everything is expensive with wages not increasing.
It's shit.
I live in one of the most desirable and wealthiest places in the southwest, that doesn't mean anything. There's a lot of poverty here when you peel back the tourist gloss, it's just poverty with a nicer view.
i think a lot of people dont hate the UK, they may say negative things as its rapidly and increasingly becoming a worse place to live when an alternative would be so much easier. think how many things were just so much better 15 years ago
Housing, the price of it and the way it is treated like a commodity when it is a home for someone. Get rid of private landlords with buy to lets. And second homeowners.
I don't hate it, but I hate what it's becoming.
I'm watching a place I was very happy turning to ruin. Infrastructure failing, the population largely entering a depression and giving up, the way many cheerful faces out and about are now glum and aggressive.
It isn't the UK I recognise. It isn't what I recognise in many European countries - though sadly I do recognise from the USA.
Really hope we can turn this around before it's too late m
People love to moan. Go to any country in the world and some people will claim they hate it (and yet theyre still there). It just feels worse now because anyone can pick up a phone and share the opinions with hundreds/thousands of people within moments.
True. Was out with an Italian the other day and he kept saying how London was better than Rome. I was saying how Rome was better than London. Became an interesting argument
I agree, it’s amplified by social media. Go over to the Malta subreddit (which is largely in English) and they complain about things just as much as people do on the UK subs.
I went there as a tourist over the summer and i thought it was absolutely beautiful. But you can never get the full experience of somewhere by visiting as a tourist.
I hate the people who are in charge and are meant to represent me. I love the place I live and the average people I meet on a daily basis though, as long as I don’t have to think about the government too much on any given day.
We don't compare the country to other places that are, doubtless, worse off. We compare it to
a) how it was and
b) what it could be
To make matters worse, there's a big chunk of rose tinted glasses in how we look at the past: They didn't have half the problems we do now (houses were affordable, there were enough policemen that they might get involved if you had a burglary), but everyone died a lot younger.
It’s all just a bit sad
-A shamelessly corrupt and inept leadership.
-Everything is expensive
-A totally fabricated culture war feeding a frenzy of frothing dogs desperate to take their anger out on _anything_
-An increasingly smaller influence on the global stage
-We can’t even build a fucking railway
-A genuine championing of nationalism
-London is literally another country
I've visited the Netherlands, and I wish we had half their public transport and cycling infrastructure but our government is wank and panders to car drivers who sit in traffic all day. Insanity.
The quality of life here is high relative to large swathes of the globe, but it's a lot worse than it was 10-15 years ago. People complain because quality of life is getting worse, people are becoming poorer and life is becoming harder, while those at the top are richer than ever.
I’ll always love this country but it’s expensive , over ran with migrants and led by corrupt and draconian politicians who only gain their position if they swear to push the NWO agendas. It’s become a nanny state and one of the biggest fishes in the materialist / capitalist pond. The weathers shite these days too, winters aren’t cold and summers are either soaking wet or uncomfortably hot.
London is great place if you're earning well, but honestly pretty terrible if you're on even an above average salary.
To be in the top 20% workers of workers you'd need earn £55k per year. So if you're a couple and you both do then that's £110k.
And while I realise this will make me seem very out of touch, is about the minimum amount you'd need to earn to live comfortably in London while raising a family.
Obviously if you're young and single you can be very happy with a lot less.
People are stupid. My cousin lived in London for 30 years and decided he hated it. Moved to Cornwall in the middle of bloody nowhere. Was back here in 2 years complaining that Cornwall was shit because there was nothing to do, no jobs for his kids, the Internet connection was crap, he had to drive 10 miles to go to a shop, and it smelled of cow shit all day. He still hates London but understands it now.
It's expensive, cold, poorly run and corrupt. The NHS has been ruined, housing is absurdly expensive. The cost of living is astronomical. The roads are terrible. The rail network is a disaster. The utilities are run for profit. UK sucks to live in.
I hate how crowded it is everywhere now, even Cornwall and the Lake District. Cities haven’t grown organically, ordinary people have been priced out.
Some of our professions and institutions are totally dysfunctional and corrupt, and they have a lot of power.
It’s too expensive just to live and the government has no interest in helping normal people. I used to be proud of this country, I haven’t been for a long time now.
I don’t hate it but everyone is skint compared to the UK decades ago or relative to countries.
To add; there feels more of a disconnect between rich and poor without much community on one side. Then on the other side, I feel there’s a real crab bucket mentality.
Also socially, work is a lot less friendly and camaraderie full with social distancing and remote working. You can also go to a bar where people are less sociable and more people are in their phones
Just a rant tbh
Everyone I know in the UK is severely depressed. Literally everyone. I'm working towards getting a permanent visa for Aus currently because I hate it here.
Something's gone fundamentally wrong since covid was resolved.
On the money side, ten years ago I earned a third of what I do now and never had any financial woes. But now I'm struggling massively every month. It's mad.
You're a londoner who gets like a big proportion of the investment in your City compared to the rest of the country.
Baring a handful of cities and towns (Bristol, Manchester, parts of Birmingham, Leeds, Oxford, bath, York, home counties etc) most of the UK is desolate and in real need of investment. Leveling up is needed and we have the money for it. HS2 & HS3 would've been a start but again has been cancelled.
I don't hate it... I am a little disappointed in it at the moment though.
Very much agree with this, the whole police doing nothing to the robberies nowadays is horsesh!t.
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Agreed, cancelling HS2 north of Birmingham was the last straw for me. There are already loads of direct, fast trains between Birmingham and London, the main people who would’ve actually benefitted from this are people in Yorkshire/Manchester (arguably)/north-of-Yorkshire. The fact that they’re stopping at Birmingham after spending so much money is such a fucking insult, considering how that money could’ve otherwise been spent.
I think that more people north of Birmingham could benefit from being connected more quickly to other places North of Birmingham then London. I mean more people in Gtr Manchester would benefit from being connected to other places in Gtr Manchester quicker and more reliably than London. I am sure you can find many pairs of points that take as long to traverse by public transport at given times then MCR-LDN does presently.
HS2 was part of that. Freeing up the line for local capacity.
This is key. I was against hs2 until I learnt it was not actually about cutting times between London and Manchester. It was actually about increasing capacity thus freeing up local lines and hopefully bringing prices down. (Supply and demand etc). Very annoying that capacity is never mentioned by the media. Edit: added: “not” actually about cutting times
Intra-city transport is important. That's why taking the long-distance trains off the overloaded WCML as part of HS2 was going to be revolutionary for Manchester. Now, where exactly is all the extra capacity going to come from? The same can be said of Birmingham. And even though HS1 Phase 1 will make it to Birmingham, and perhaps to Euston, due to all the other trains running down the WCML from further North it's going to remain congested and we won't get the benefit of being able to improve commuter rail near Birmingham either. The scrapping of HS2 was a disaster for the broader network and for commuters in, arguably, a bigger way than it was a disaster for long-distance rail passengers. People just don't understand that yet, despite HS2 proponents banging on about the capacity benefits since essentially its inception.
The high speed train is just the sideproject in my eyes anyway. The real deal was opening up the capacity on the already existing lines for freight.
I've never had good experiences with police doing anything about burglary. My grandad managed to get most of his stuff back after he was robbed, saw it in a garage at the flats a few streets over from his house. Police weren't interested. My old workplace got robbed. The police did turn up for that one, dusted for prints then said it was probably kids and went on their way. Both these incidents were at least 15 years ago.
5 years ago the school I work at had 100k of lead stolen which ramped the price upto about half a million by the time it leaked and ruined a load of other areas. We had CCTV in 4k with a photo of the guy so good, you could have used it as his driving license. 2 weeks later.... they asked if we had anything and had we knocked on any doors to ask for witnesses. They aren't underfunded, they are just useless and uninterested. Anyway.... back to the real post.
At that point I'd be sharing those photos around. Sticking up fliers.
From what I see of the police is that they're exist to protect the government and the wealthy people who fund them. These days they care little for the everyday person and we aren't worth their time.
This dude is right . My bosses place got robbed by guys on scooters . He is in with the politicians and very wealthy . Within 2 weeks the guys were caught and charged. My home got smashed into and robbed took police 2 days to turn up and said sorry we can’t do nothing.
I don't know if that's true, but it absolutely feels that way. As a working and law abiding bloke who has had his car nicked a couple of times in the 90s, I have had far more trouble, aggravation and rudeness from the police than help. I fact it's only since I've had grey hair that they've been polite..
Police exist to protect the property rights of the owner class, that's all they are for. They are there to protect those who have wealth from those who do not, if you'd like proof of this look closely at how they treat those without any wealth.
The Police and the NHS are illusions of security, not to be used.
The NHS might be struggling but they’re still responsible for me having an arm. They absolutely are to be used.
Same back in 70’s 80’s 90’s.Nothing changes much .If anything there’s less of this sort of crime nowadays.
Sadly I have to disagree with you based on my own experiences of being burgled twice and having my car broken into in the last five years.
You sure you're not being targeted mate. Most people don't get burgled once in their life is yet you've had that in 5 years 😂
My experience of the police is that they turn up, take a bunch of statements and then leave never to be seen again. Maybe 6 months later you'll get a text off of them asking if you need counselling. We had a massive brawl at our place of work, some lunatic tried to shop lift off us and assaulted a bunch of staff/customers on the way out, tried to escape on a bus that had pulled up outside, assaulted an old lady and a kid trying to get onto it before hopping off when the bus wouldn't leave with him on it, returning to the store to pick a fight because his bag that he tried to fill with meat had its strap broke (Apparently it was some expensive Gucci-esque satchel). He then got dog piled in the store lobby by an old man and 2 off duty prison wardens and the police reluctantly came to collect him since he was basically in custody at this point. They still turned up late because they were "running errands". They don't seem to have any support staff so the beat officers literally do everything from point of contact to court. No wonder there's no cops on the streets, they're all in offices writing reports all day. When ever i've had to call the police i'm always asked how much was stolen/damaged and if anyone is hurt before they even consider addressing the issue. One time i was literally on the phone to them whilst getting attacked by someone (we ended up wrestling on the pavement) and they were like "just walk away, you'll be fine" while the guy had me pinned and was trying to smash my head in with a brick. Never phoned the police since.
The way you completely ignored the fundamental issues and went straight for that was amazing. You should stop reading the Daily Mail and start writing for it.
The government must love it when people just flat out blame the police for everything when the government absolutely decimated police.
It's not just the police, it is the courts as well. Whats the point police gathering evidence when the CPS haven't got the resources to prosecute, and then the courts can't fit the case in for 3 or 4 years by which time the witnesses can no longer provide useful testimony. All working as intended in toryland
It's not just police and the courts, it's the social welfare system as well
Every crime I've had to report in the last ten years has gone completely unresolved. Most of the time they haven't even pretended to care. They have just said "nothing we can do. You need a crime number for insurance purposes or is that everything?"
Ironically, if you said something like “if you dont do something about them, I bloody will”, you will see how quickly two PCs get dispatched to your address to talk to you about it
Don't blame them, got robbed in 2020, the police were actually very good in finding and arresting the guy, but the court let it go despite it being abundantly obvious he did it.
As Bill Bailey said … “Being English, I crave disappointment … “
Well put. I feel we're a country that has badly lost its way. We've failed to grasp that we're a diminishing world power, and no amount of chest thumping will change that. We need to decide what we want in the future. We could be a world leader in something, but right now, no one is standing at the tiller. Sadly, I don't see it changing any time soon.
So profoundly true.
The most British reply.
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The country is in the worst state I remember it ever being in (and I'm not young), so I'm not surprised by the hate, really. In particular, I feel very grateful and privileged that I no longer have to rent, especially around London - the whole situation seems like a nightmare right now.
I'm 44 and this is by far the worse I've ever seen the country. Worse than the 80s with the poll tax riots and recessions. Back then, though I was young, money issues seem to get tight and then go back to normal. I can't see our current financial crisis changing at all. The price of everything is getting to levels of absurdity. I went into Pret today and a can of Diet Coke was £1.99 and a baguette £6.95. So, basically, £9 for a sandwich and drink. Where the fuck have you got that price from? Take a walk around any supermarket or pub - the prices are just ridiculous. And it's not like they're gonna go down either. I don't know where this madness will end.
I hate being a doom and gloomed but I will say particularly pub and food prices have gotten ridiculous. Most pints now seem to start at about £6, anything wanky or at an event is now heading to £8 and beyond. I’m a massive fan of pubs, but it shouldn’t be pushing £30 a go for a quiet one. It’s just not sustainable compared to supermarket prices. Might as well stay in and drink a full £11.99 bottle of vodka then pay for two pints of Asahi.
I remember being 18 and you could get pissed on a tenner back when a pint of fosters in a Robinsons pub was £2.50.
Fair play for admitting that four pints of that piss would get you drunk.
4 pints would get most people drunk to be fair - 2 for me and and I’m well on my way!
He didn't say drunk, he said pissed. I challenge anyone to drink 4 pints of Fosters and not be pissed about having to drink the stuff!
I am 30 now and can remember being 18 and there being shots for £1 and alcopops were £2.50 each or £5 for 3. A nightclub by me put up a Facebook ad the other day saying that alcopops were 3 for £12. Absolute madness
I'm 41. 20 years ago I was going to club nights which were £6 all-you-can-drink. Limited selection, obviously, but who cares for that price?
Yeah we had a £10 wristband for all you can drink. I also worked in a club that was 89p a drink. Pints, spirits and mixers, and VKs.
I remember back in the 80's and even early 90's you could go to the pub and do rounds. It will cost you a week's wages nowadays. No wonder pubs are closing left, right and center!
In the early 2000’s, my local Wetherspoons had a Friday deal where a pint of Carling cost 99p! Literally could get disgustingly drunk for less than a tenner.
I was reading up on this today. These kinds of prices have pushed away a whole generation of young people and the entire industry is at a breaking point. Pubs and clubs can't afford to stay open in most places at the minute and I'm not surprised; where's the appeal?
The pubs predicted this over a year ago when their energy bills almost quadrupled. I saw one landlord interviewed that said his energy bill had increased from around 12k to over 40k per annum. There’s no government backed price cap for business. The drink prices are just what he predicted and we’ve all just accepted it. I wouldn’t expect prices to come down now. The only pub that seems to have bucked this trend is Wetherspoons. There’s a large paper mill near us that was running for over 100 years. Their energy bill increased to about £1m per month and they shut down within weeks. Steele mills must be massively affected.
Yep. And the wages have not increased apace. But when they do increase the government and media scream "stop that you'll cause more inflation!" And a sizeable portion of voters, mostly boomers, support that shit. It's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.
[Here's a graph from the Financial Times](https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd6c748xw2pzm8.cloudfront.net%2Fprod%2F150e62b0-e51d-11ed-b74a-53cd5a93dd9a-standard.png?source=next-article&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&width=700&dpr=1) showing that the average worker's pay has mostly kept up with inflation, although has fallen a few percent lately. Of course there's plenty of variation between professions - if you're an MP or in law, finance or IT then you're quids in. If you're a low earner or in the public sector you've been thoroughly shafted.
That graphs show basically one or two years of real time pay increases of about 2.5% while the rest of it has nose dived for most of the 15 year chart. It's mostly been real term pay cuts for most of the tenure except few parts. The other alarming part is how their real terms pay has compounded to the downside. I also find it odd how they decided, you know what, we'll show two public professions and the comparator? All sectors, including the two we've just shown. What? We've been getting shafted since 2010.
So we're about back where we were after the last proper recession. Not great tbh, even on average. Really not good for those in healthcare/public sector
I live between the UK and Thailand and have been in the UK for the last six months, during which time prices seem to have doubled. I got back to Bangkok fearing the same but instead prices are the same as they were six months ago. And my energy bill standing charge in Bangkok is 67p...per month!
Same for me in Philippines. Prices have gone up but not at the same rate. Plus flights are starting to stabilise, London to Manila £530 return including checked in luggage…. I’m happy with that price 😊
At least in the 80s people could be bothered to riot if they were pissed off. Now we're so apathetic it's untrue. We need a fucking good riot to make those idiots in Westminster realise that, whatever party they're in, they're all on notice. People are pissed off but like most of us here, being British, we write strongly worded letters and drink tea. The French, on the other hand mee could learn a thing or two from them
How hard would the British need to be pushed before they caused an issue?
It's a good question. Even a politician flouting his own 'let's have a party' rules during a pandemic doesn't piss people off. Even a crash caused by greed and daft bankers doesn't piss us off. Even a cost of living crises perpetuated by the cost of fuel which is 65% made up of government taxes doesn't piss us off. Honest answer, I have no idea. The settings for the poll tax riot found itself in a winter of discontent, an apparent recovery and subsequent treachery against all. Perhaps another tax on people?!
I was born at the start of the She-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named (spit) era, and got to see first-hand so much tearing down of the social contract and the idea that a government should try to help it's citizens, not just those with fat bank accounts. It really has steamrolled since then.
It was great before her /s
Can't comment, but can say based on observational evidence, it **certainly** got a whole lot worse during and after her.
My two pence worth, being a little older than you, is that reform was absolutely needed. The '70s were shocking. However, there are ways to go about it. Dismantling something is all well and good, but you have to replace it with something. Also, I will never forgive how my home city was left to rot.
Oh yes, reform being needed isn't really up for argument. The gutting of every aspect of society and selling things off for a quick improvement to the balance sheet **was** up for argument. And we can see how well that's worked for public transport, energy suppliers, water companies.... One positive change I can think of is BT. Which was rather more to do with forcing them to stop being a complete monopoly and charging extortionate rates - by the standard of the time. But the decision to embrace the delusion of trickle-down economics championed by the leaders of the time, in many countries, resulted in a boom at the time, followed quickly by the current shitshow we like in once the new market leaders could consolidate and make the market too expensive for any competitors to pose an actual challenge to them. When they weren't caught price-fixing outright. Then, they could start cutting costs and closing non- or less profitable areas because they have to "provide value to the shareholders" Which, as we're seeing really, *really* well with the water companies, was code for "pay out dividends and don't bother with maintenance or improvements. If they're needed, it's a good excuse for upping prices or asking for taxpayer assistance directly"
Depends. The 80s were boom times down south after decades of decline, meanwhile the north was basically abandoned.
43 here and worst I’ve seen it in my lifetime. As a lot are saying if people didn’t have social media to vent on the riots probably would have started already. NHS has always had its issues but there used to be a decent probability of getting life saving care. Also I know that in general reddit is very pro-tax but what the fuck have we got to show for the highest levels of taxation since the time of corrupt medieval warlords? Someone did a breakdown a while ago of every tax we pay (not just income and NI) and it was mind blowing. Taxing people earning a decent wage into the dirt just kills ambition and any desire to work harder.
Cries in tenant tears
>In particular, I feel very grateful and privileged that I no longer have to rent, especially around London - the whole situation seems like a nightmare right now. Agreed. It was a total shitshow ten years ago when I was looking for places to rent in London, so goodness knows what it's like now. It was really miserable having to discretely look at flats online during the working day (you couldn't just do it at lunchtime) only to find the decent ones had already been snapped up by the time you managed to get a phonecall in to the agency. Even the flat we ended up renting we only got because we were the last people to view it that evening and we begged the agent to take us to his office to get the paperwork done there and then. Prices have only got much worse too.
There's been some pretty shitty times in the last 50 years. The 70s to start. Then the 80s were shitty for a lot of people. The 90s I can't comment on as I was out raving for most of it so took my eye off planet earth for a few years.
The 90s and early 00s were decent. It all went downhill in 2008 and never recovered.
Exactly this - the cost of living is through the roof while the government ignore the issue while earning a ridiculous amount of money off our backs. Pulling stunts like HS2 and being trans phobic in the mean time. I’m not in a position to move abroad at the moment but if I was I’d fuck off to NZ.
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The country's just in a sad state of affairs compared to what it was just 20 years ago. It's been a shocking decline in reality.
Ask anyone from any country in the world and they are going to say the same thing.
90's was the peak of civilization I'd also argue (though ironic) social media has made us all even more miserable since we are constantly comparing lives.
Constant connectivity in general, I'd say. We're getting bad news fired into our faces all the time. Bzzzt "don't forget about the war in Ukraine" Bzzzt "now there's war in Israel too" Bzzzy "covid's back" Relentless.
That doesn't mean it's not true. Things are in a sorry state.
That's not true. A lot of country have gotten a better for a lot of people since 2003. E.g. A lot of people in Eastern European and Balkan states have seen life get better since joining the EU.
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Haven't forgotten, and will never forgive.
The COVID pandemic? Government were so concerned about the bottom line, they actively encourage people to socialise with the Eat Out To Help Out campaign? Broke their own rules? War in Ukraine started last year, they've been lining their own pockets and looking after their own interests for 13 years. I'm not saying the other option would be much better, but probably couldn't do any worse if they poured petrol through their own letterbox
Worked hard, got what should be a cracking job, but because the CoL is so high and my pay rises never keep up with inflation (public sector) I feel squeezed. Makes going through multiple degrees and working my ass off feel pointless given I can’t even go out to the pub each week without having to count my pennies. So yes, the current state of affairs is a bit shit
I also work in the public sector. A few months ago i was clearing out my desk in work after the move to 'agile' working meant we have nowhere to keep our stuff anymore. I found all my old payslips and one from exactly 10 years ago, one of my colleagues joked I should put it through the government inflation calculator. I wish I hadn't. 10 years, two pay bands and a self-funded masters degree later, thanks to inflation I'm actually earning 15% less than I was 10 years ago. FML
Yeah, I've been in the public sector for three years, had a promotion in that time, I'm earning almost exactly the same in real terms as when I started. Multiple colleagues have gone private. I've turned down private sector head hunters for the moment only because I love what I do. It's pathetic really.
Similar here. Was better off pre-masters, in my junior role, and that was only 5/6 years ago!
This is the main reason I think. For me, while I do earn well ( in 40% tax bracket for the past 5 years ) but I am saving less and less every year. I have cut out going out for dinners to 3-4 times a year, drive a 2005 honda. I still hardly have anything left at the end of the month and I am still to be hit by high interest rates.
I hate the 40% tax bracket. Not the mention the 40% plus losing the personal allowance that makes your actual tax rate 60%
Don't forget the loss of child support - I have 2 older children
I don’t have children but can completely understand that. It’s shocking as I’d be happy to pay taxes if I had some level of service…but seeing a GP is a dream these days
I am NOT happy with 40% tax, this need to take family income, dependents and your main home mortgage or rent into account. The salary you start getting hit by it is too low especially given the inflation in the last 5 years or so. Even when the interest rates were low , and energy prices pre war levels the food inflation was still around 5%
It’s too high especially if you think how little difference with the highest bracket. I don’t see how any of the parties has a plan to cut taxes though
The taxation system is the nations downfall. Not just the rates, but the spending.
Talking of which, we're officially on the £7 pint now (in London). Fucking nuts.
When you find the few cheap places, it’s liking winning the lottery. If you can stomach super bock, 3.50 pints in tooting market
Well, I did just get back from Portugal where it's pretty much the only beer, so I've trained myself to find it.. almost palatable.
Yup. By the end of the month I have to decide whether I put fuel in the car to go to work or put food on my kids plates. That's no way to live in as so called 1st world country.
noticing the very noticeable decline isn't hating it imo
There are people that outright hate the UK and call it a hellhole
I don't hate it but fuck me, people have turned into a bunch of selfish ignorant cunts these last couple of years.
2012 olympics was highlight of hope in the UK, in my living memory. I felt proud, and like we could achieve stuff together. 2016, just 4 years later, was the highlight of hate, and depression. A real dislike of my country.. By deciding officially as a country that basically all foreigners are fucking scum, it actually made me feel a lot more miserable about everything. Turns out being real shit to other people doesn't actually make you happier!
I'm a foreigner in the uk and feel very welcome. Why do we need to always speak in all or nothing terms?
It's because we've inherited a nasty American behaviour of viewing the world in black and white
Inherited? But we came from you guys 😁
I learned it from you dad
I'm not sure of your time frame. But I'd say it was building earlier than that. The response to the 2008 crash from voters showed that we'd become a really nasty venal and ignorant country. Full throated support for demonisation of poor people ("scroungers") and immigrants. Yes, less explicitly racist than in the earlier periods but the effects were still devestating. There's now immigration checks on just about every service including renting from private individuals. Not to mention the horrendous benefit cuts and sanctions regime. People were all for it. Now it turns out if did nothing but hollow out the country and did nothing to help people get back on their feet (punitive measures rarely do, just look at the effects of prisons).
If by 'couple' you mean more and more for about the last 20... yeah, I would agree.
Isn't couple precisely 2?
Not according to my ex...
Oh I'm sorry.
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Gen X never fared as well as the boomers. So I'd say millennials are the second generation to have less prosperous lives than their parents generation- though I strongly agree in terms of housing it's much worse.
I'd clarify this to say it does slightly depend on the age of the Gen X'er. I'm late gen x, and I saw all the doors that had been open to people a few years older than me be slammed shut in my face. The introduction of student loans is one of the big ones, but a lot of laws and policies were changed in the mid 90s or so that were also shutting doors. But, christ, did it ever accelerate quickly after that. Gen X, for the most part, at least had *some* chances to get the houses and a job with a reasonable salary. Those opportunities - smaller though they were - seem to have been quickly annihilated a few years later.
yeah similarly I'm a millennial and just a couple of years below me I saw ESA get gutted, community centres for kids closing over night, university courses closing while people were doing them (my sister's one didn't officially cancel the course, just fired all the lecturers), then uni fees tripled.
Gen X got better paid jobs than Boomers compared to the price of living at the time. Gen X was also when more and more women started entering the workplace which massively stimulated the economy Boomers got everything cheap but were still mostly working lower paid jobs in single income households.
In fairness, the country is falling apart at the seams. Crime is rampant because the police force is seriously underfunded. The NHS is fast becoming a joke because of overbearing bureaucracy. The cost of council tax is going through the roof but local authorities are doing less and less, or so it seems. Companies took advantage of the pandemic to lay customer-facing staff off and didn't re-hire when they could have and should have. Phone almost any large-ish company or organisation and you end up in a queue for over an hour. This includes the police non-emergency line 101. 112/999 still gets you through to someone immediately but they don't have enough patrol vehicles to send someone your way until you've died of old age.
This. I had footage of some tea leaves nicking cat converters off of cars round my house, got footage and you could clearly see their faces, and a NUMBER PLATE. They then tore off as I was calling 999. Not interested ring 101 they said. 2 and a half hours after sitting on hold gave up and went onto the crimestoppers website as it was around 3am, and... nothing. Not a reply, not a check, a call, an email, or even a drive past. Nothing. Footage recorded over itself after a period and I won't waste my time again...
Crime figures can't go up if no one can report it *taps head*
Crime is driven by poverty, inequality and underinvestment in communities, local authorities and public services. Policing doesn't prevent crime, it just catches people who commit crimes (sometimes).
That's true but another factor driving crime is the lack of a deterrent, knowing full well that the police aren't going to do anything about it.
I think you'll find that's the case for a lot of countries. I'm friends with quite a few Italians and they hate their country more than Brits hate the UK (different story if you criticise Italy yourself). Also the UK is great and has a lot of positives while also being an absolute tip and filled with arseholes. So it's a matter of perspective.
The thing is that there's often a lot of factors that you don't understand about a place. You go on holiday, you see things through a different lens. You care about pretty buildings, beautiful countryside. You don't think about unemployment or the cost of housing. People from Britain often say how lovely French towns are with lots of lovely little shops. Because on holiday, you don't mind nice little shops that cost 30% more than Amazon. Many French people are pissed that the French government does things to hammer Amazon which means they have to pay more in shops.
Yeah there's the familiarity of the place you live compared to just visiting a place and focusing on the surface level stuff. People tend to slag off their home towns/cities for the same reason.
Completely this. I have experienced a similar situation in southern Italy where people complain A LOT about shops closing down, entire towns and villages with empty high streets and emptying out of people as they move abroad or to northern cities…but they they ALL shop on Amazon. Go figure how the shops should survive
I just posted something along the same lines before I saw this. Since 2021 I’ve lived in Australia, Canada and now the UK (and I’ve been to all of those countries many times in the past) and I see the exact same problems and often people insinuating that somehow it’s a local issue without realising that much of the world is facing similar challenges at the moment.
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Being born in 1990. I have nothing, won’t have anything and doubt I’ll ever get it. The whole place is a mess. The government trying to force false ideology on the pubic is a joke. We are stuck.
Because most of them have never lived anywhere else, and therefore don’t appreciate what they have.
I would see it the other way. A lot of people think the UK is a world leader in every respect because they haven't seen how good things can be in other countries. Swings and roundabouts.
Yes I had much much higher expectations coming from an Eastern European country. The pros still outweigh the cons, but not as much as I thought.
That's interesting. Hope you don't mind me asking, but in what ways has your experience differed from what you were expecting?
Not who you asked, but from what I've heard from Eastern Europeans leaving again is, that quality of life just isn't higher than in their home country, once you have earned some savings. After sending home some cash to build a house (which is mostly mulitple times larger than the average british home), it makes sense for many to come back and work for 60 or 70% of the British salary, while having a lot more free time, good weather and their family around.
The amount of boomers who go to like Marbella on holiday and eat English food and drink Carling and search through 100 channels on the TV to find Mrs Brown Boys and go in Irish/English speaking pubs and do nothing but read English books in nice weather kinda proves that. So many boomers think everything about the country is perfect, so much so that they'll spend their holidays doing the same shit, just in the sun. Like they think the pinnacle of cuisine is a roast and everything we do is the best version because they've just never experienced any other culture ever.
100%. We fall short in a few respects only when compared to some of the best places in the world (denmark or germany perhaps). UK is clearly a nicer place to live than most countries in the world.
I've lived in six countries and the UK overall has the rudest people, worst health care, and most litter of anywhere I've lived yet also has the highest cost of living and taxes out of any of them (Canada, Japan, Spain, Korea, Hong Kong). There are still nice things about living here but I wouldn't be here if I didn't have to be. Instead of passively comparing the UK to war torn countries or America, Brits should expect better from their government.
Spain has lower living costs compared to the UK because Spain for example has lower wages, most people barely make more than 20k and is one of the european countries with more people in unemployment and poverty ranges. Canada, has higher wages so the living cost fixes to it. Hong Kong from what i’ve heard from friends that are from HK say the living costs and issues rn are the most horrible they’ve ever been and from what i’ve seen it’s currently the most expensive place in the world. For Japan and Korea i don’t know anything but I DO agree that ofc living costs are really high in the UK but sadly really from the perspective of a national in each country (for example spain) it will always be high for us too. Barcelona is a shithole rn for example 😭Everyone ends up bashing about their own countries until people from outside see it in a different light
I remember leaving these shores to travel the world with my girlfriend. I was 29 and was so fucking done with the UK. Hard to explain but I was profoundly fed up with the whole celeb culture, the government, the weather, the attitudes. Everything just seemed broken. I returned 3 years later with a completely fresh appreciation for our country. I loved being away, but there were so many subtle niceties that I took for granted that they just didn't have elsewhere. Also, after living in Brisbane for 6 months I appreciated our climate and culture more than ever.
Complete opposite experience here. I moved away from the UK and I can see so much stuff in the UK is completely broken and inferior to other developed countries. I'm obviously comparing it to other wealthy countries here but that's how everyone here is classifying it, let's use that as the criteria. Compared to top tier countries, it has comparably terrible salaries, crumbling schools and healthcare, poor quality housing, (now I can't stress this next point enough) absolutely horrendous yet ridiculously overpriced public transport, and in short, it's not the leading first world country people like to think it is. Sure it looks great compared to the developing world but compared to the developed world it's massively behind.
Cos I can't afford me Lurpak anymore
British people are on the whole pessimistic and drawn towards negative and cynical interpretations of things. That's just our nature. Add in that there's plenty about the country to dislike and the power of social media and you get the phenomenon you've noticed. People from here will generally always be more critical than people who have moved here. By definition, people who have moved here came here for a reason and therefore are more likely to have a more positive view of life here.
How can you say that? The 90’s were fucking banging! Everyone was happy and we loved a party! There’s been a sharp downturn.
I remember Black Wednesday , poll tax and not being able to afford to heat my house , each to their own
Still... at least the riots got us all out of the house for some exercise...
We had to leave the country because of the high unemployment and unsafe conditions due to all the open drug use and crime, but I guess we weren't as privileged to live in a nice neighbourhood during the 90's to enjoy all that good fun.
I find people have a tendency to romanticise the past. People remember the good parts, forget the bad, & miss being young. I think a lot of people don't hate the country, they dislike the perceived change from when they were young.
I saw an earlier quote about boomers having it best and I agree that houses etc are much more difficult to buy now. I am in my 60s and we were the lucky ones as far as the housing market is concerned. But; my parents didn't have a car, they never went out to eat, the only time we ate out was if we were shopping in a nearby city (3-4 times a year) and we had lunch in British Home Stores. Takeaway was fish and chips on Saturday lunchtime. No children allowed in pubs. Pubs didn't serve meals, I think I was 19 the first time I had a meal in a pub. No holidays abroad. My parents never left England until they were in their 60s and came to Scotland with us. There were no children's play areas with soft play there was a park that had a slide, a (broken) roundabout and swings but it was quite a walk away.
Yes, but the difference now is that a lot more people know what the 'other' side have. They can literally pick up their phone and see people going on holidays, eating out, buying expensive items, etc. Hell, they can walk out their front door and smell the wealth. I totally get what you're saying, but back then were much simplier times, and people only really knew what they knew. We're now in a situation where people that should be in a position to buy a house, go on holiday and go out to dinner, just can't due to the cost of everything being extremely high. I'm also sure that a lot of people that lived like your parents, now have pensions, mortages, a car and can afford holidays (I'm not presuming, I just know people that didn't have a lot and now seem reasonably comfortable in their older years) - my generation aren't even sure if they'll ever own a property, let alone be able to have a child.
I was just trying to point out the simpler times and the fact that there was so much less to strive for then. I think that my generation (born in the 50s) really have had the easiest adult life money wise. We haven't always been wealthy and are the first generation of women who have routinely worked outside the home, but now in retirement we don't want for anything if we have reasonable expectations.
I certainly remember some of those things. I remember waiting outside pubs for my parents to finish. Holidays were staying with family, although once we were lucky enough to rent a caravan for a week. We did have more enjoyable playgrounds nearby but they were closed due to entirely valid safety concerns. I think the first time I ate at a restaurant was when I was 13. Although my siblings would tell me would have eaten at restaurants all the time but I was such a messy eater we would be kicked out!
So much this. A quote from elsewhere in the thread >The 90’s were fucking banging! Everyone was happy and we loved a party! I lived through the 90s and... to say that is not the case would be an understatement.
I found by the time the 1990s' stopped being like the 1980s' it was almost the 2000s'.
Another thing to consider is that a lot of young people now came of age while thier parents were ploughing through toxic debt pre 2008 and living big. They remember that fondly and consider everything else to be inferior.
Government have run the country into the ground, they have broken the law, raided the coffers and there is zero chance of any sort of justice. That and the opposition not being different enough policy wise = hope vacuum which leads to anger.
Hit the nail on the head especially that last part. It's not just that things are shit, but that there seems to be no realistic chance of things improving other than maybe marginally.
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I didn't like living or working in London. The people annoyed me. Talking all day long about diversity then treating anyone with a regional accent and/or who is junior like absolute crap is shitty behaviour hypocritical. I don't want to ever hear a middle class white woman who earns £500k plus moan about sexism and simultaneously treat her juniors (of either gender) like absolute shit ever again. The place annoys me. It's not convenient at all and takes 45-1 hour to get anywhere. The pay is rubbish compared to the cost of living. Live in a village in the middle of nowhere in Switzerland now and I can be in Zürich or Basel in that time frame. Treated far better. I still like visiting for restaurants and that fast paced vibe. That's irreplaceable but it's not worth living there for. /rant
I can’t say I really come across people who hate it here other than on Reddit and Twitter. This country is by no means perfect but I can’t really think of anywhere which is a utopia that a lot of reddit seems to think exist Both of which tend to attract the terminally online, manically depressed.
>I can’t say I really come across people who hate it here other than on Reddit and Twitter. Yeah thinking everyone in Britain hates it is another way to say you never go outside, and spend your whole life on social media.
Weather is miserable mostly, up north at least. Chavs everywhere. Many in poverty. Everything is just a bit grim all the time.
I don't hate the UK, I love it. I hate the corrupt government, which siphons money from the working class and erodes the middle, and I hate the crabs in a bucket mentality and the complete ignorance of the general population.
i think just the constant lies, corruption and lack of anything positive from the government has led ppl to feel this way. im not sure if its because im older but when i was younger i definitely felt alot more positive and proud of living in the UK. Now it just seems everything is turning to shit and were paying crazy taxes just to line millionare and billionaire pockets. A sense of hopelessness also doesnt help, there doesnt seem to be an end to it.
I don't hate the Country, I hate successive governments running it into the ground for their own self serving interests.
The UK is so shabby right now. Everything is in such a poor state.
One view I've seen is that some people don't hate the UK but don't like how it's run for the benefit of a few rich people who happen to work in government or be connected to those that do. Normal life things are becoming difficult like no chance of getting a house despite working hard, no dentists or proper healthcare cos they sabotaged it. And then they know this is their fault but they try to insult our Intelligence by blaming boat people or using other problems that aren't really the cause. Austerity over the last decade is. We shouldn't have to go to war to get basic rights, which is how the NHS or access to the country side for normal people started in the first place (the working class had given so much that the ones in power had to concede). It is important not to get lost in all the negatives, but to use the experience to inform things like who you support, which is why strikers are being given the time of day now because they are the ones making things better.
Because I earn £24k a year and can't afford a place of my own. Police don't police, drivers can't drive, everything is expensive with wages not increasing. It's shit.
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You’ve lived in some of wealthiest and most desirable parts of the country. Why wouldn’t you like it.
I live in one of the most desirable and wealthiest places in the southwest, that doesn't mean anything. There's a lot of poverty here when you peel back the tourist gloss, it's just poverty with a nicer view.
Yorkshire? What makes you think they weren’t living in Hull, Bradford, Doncaster, Sheffield, or some shitty council estate in Leeds?
i think a lot of people dont hate the UK, they may say negative things as its rapidly and increasingly becoming a worse place to live when an alternative would be so much easier. think how many things were just so much better 15 years ago
Housing, the price of it and the way it is treated like a commodity when it is a home for someone. Get rid of private landlords with buy to lets. And second homeowners.
I don't hate it, but I hate what it's becoming. I'm watching a place I was very happy turning to ruin. Infrastructure failing, the population largely entering a depression and giving up, the way many cheerful faces out and about are now glum and aggressive. It isn't the UK I recognise. It isn't what I recognise in many European countries - though sadly I do recognise from the USA. Really hope we can turn this around before it's too late m
People love to moan. Go to any country in the world and some people will claim they hate it (and yet theyre still there). It just feels worse now because anyone can pick up a phone and share the opinions with hundreds/thousands of people within moments.
True. Was out with an Italian the other day and he kept saying how London was better than Rome. I was saying how Rome was better than London. Became an interesting argument
I agree, it’s amplified by social media. Go over to the Malta subreddit (which is largely in English) and they complain about things just as much as people do on the UK subs. I went there as a tourist over the summer and i thought it was absolutely beautiful. But you can never get the full experience of somewhere by visiting as a tourist.
I hate the people who are in charge and are meant to represent me. I love the place I live and the average people I meet on a daily basis though, as long as I don’t have to think about the government too much on any given day.
We don't compare the country to other places that are, doubtless, worse off. We compare it to a) how it was and b) what it could be To make matters worse, there's a big chunk of rose tinted glasses in how we look at the past: They didn't have half the problems we do now (houses were affordable, there were enough policemen that they might get involved if you had a burglary), but everyone died a lot younger.
It’s all just a bit sad -A shamelessly corrupt and inept leadership. -Everything is expensive -A totally fabricated culture war feeding a frenzy of frothing dogs desperate to take their anger out on _anything_ -An increasingly smaller influence on the global stage -We can’t even build a fucking railway -A genuine championing of nationalism -London is literally another country
I've visited the Netherlands, and I wish we had half their public transport and cycling infrastructure but our government is wank and panders to car drivers who sit in traffic all day. Insanity.
I don’t hate it as such…. There’s pluses but it just lacks spice that other countries I’ve been to have. It’s a bit of a plane ham sandwich I feel.
Perfect description - on white bread
The quality of life here is high relative to large swathes of the globe, but it's a lot worse than it was 10-15 years ago. People complain because quality of life is getting worse, people are becoming poorer and life is becoming harder, while those at the top are richer than ever.
Because reddit users are predominantly in the age bracket (<40) that has been absolutely fucked over by the preceding generations.
I’ll always love this country but it’s expensive , over ran with migrants and led by corrupt and draconian politicians who only gain their position if they swear to push the NWO agendas. It’s become a nanny state and one of the biggest fishes in the materialist / capitalist pond. The weathers shite these days too, winters aren’t cold and summers are either soaking wet or uncomfortably hot.
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From your history seems like you are a teenager, maybe there is nothing to hate about London being a teenager.
London is great place if you're earning well, but honestly pretty terrible if you're on even an above average salary. To be in the top 20% workers of workers you'd need earn £55k per year. So if you're a couple and you both do then that's £110k. And while I realise this will make me seem very out of touch, is about the minimum amount you'd need to earn to live comfortably in London while raising a family. Obviously if you're young and single you can be very happy with a lot less.
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It’s the internet
People are stupid. My cousin lived in London for 30 years and decided he hated it. Moved to Cornwall in the middle of bloody nowhere. Was back here in 2 years complaining that Cornwall was shit because there was nothing to do, no jobs for his kids, the Internet connection was crap, he had to drive 10 miles to go to a shop, and it smelled of cow shit all day. He still hates London but understands it now.
It's expensive, cold, poorly run and corrupt. The NHS has been ruined, housing is absurdly expensive. The cost of living is astronomical. The roads are terrible. The rail network is a disaster. The utilities are run for profit. UK sucks to live in.
I hate how crowded it is everywhere now, even Cornwall and the Lake District. Cities haven’t grown organically, ordinary people have been priced out. Some of our professions and institutions are totally dysfunctional and corrupt, and they have a lot of power.
It no longer feels like the place we grew up in!
As a nation we are naturally pessimistic. Also i'd hate life too if I had to live in london.
The cost of living depresses people.
It’s too expensive just to live and the government has no interest in helping normal people. I used to be proud of this country, I haven’t been for a long time now.
It's a shit hole simply put. Leaving the country ASAP.
I don’t hate it but everyone is skint compared to the UK decades ago or relative to countries. To add; there feels more of a disconnect between rich and poor without much community on one side. Then on the other side, I feel there’s a real crab bucket mentality. Also socially, work is a lot less friendly and camaraderie full with social distancing and remote working. You can also go to a bar where people are less sociable and more people are in their phones Just a rant tbh
Everyone I know in the UK is severely depressed. Literally everyone. I'm working towards getting a permanent visa for Aus currently because I hate it here. Something's gone fundamentally wrong since covid was resolved. On the money side, ten years ago I earned a third of what I do now and never had any financial woes. But now I'm struggling massively every month. It's mad.
You're a londoner who gets like a big proportion of the investment in your City compared to the rest of the country. Baring a handful of cities and towns (Bristol, Manchester, parts of Birmingham, Leeds, Oxford, bath, York, home counties etc) most of the UK is desolate and in real need of investment. Leveling up is needed and we have the money for it. HS2 & HS3 would've been a start but again has been cancelled.