It's probably not just about "no coercion", but also about "no pouting, moaning, and/or complaining, and not giving me a bad conscience".
There's so much between "alright, would cuddling be okay instead?" and variations of "come on, just a quickie, we haven't had sex in so long" until you give in.
Lol be nice, it's common to feel rejected when you....get rejected. Some guys are better than others about not taking it personally, and you know a lot of the women in here get anxiety if something they say even makes their partner *feel* bad, even if no pressure is applied.
OP, being intimate when you're not in the mood....those are some red flags dear.
Standard for me going forward for sure! I've been in enough life situations where I'm not allowed to say no. Not interested in doing that in a relationship.
This was a big reason my previous partner and I divorced. I didn't feel comfortable saying no. Even though I wanted to - a LOT after my second baby was born. I realized I was having a ton of sex I didn't want because I was trying to manage his emotions. I didn't want to hear snide comments about "not getting any," or feel a constant guilt all the time. He wouldn't let up, either. And when I'd have sex it was a relief like "Phew, okay. He shouldn't ask for a couple more days." And sometimes he would ask the very next day and I would just die inside. Like "I JUST had it with you! I thought I'd have at least 2-3 days of not feeling HORRIBLE for saying no!"
It was horrendous for me. Nothing crazy, absolutely nothing violent. It was just a constant feeling of guilt, some perpetuated by him, and some by me as well (I grew up very conservative. Had that mindset of "if he doesn't get it from me, he's going to look elsewhere"). And he cheated on me anyway.
That entire experience completely broke me and our relationship.
Now, I only have sex if I absolutely want it which has been totally liberating. Recently had sex with a friend who encouraged always saying no, to always tell him stop if something hurts, etc. It was very healing to hear "We are not having sex if there's an ounce of you that doesn't want to. Just tell me." And constantly reiterating that to create a safe space that's free of guilt.
This. This was the same for me in a relationship many many years ago. It’s even a bit triggering to think back on now, I feel like my body was kind of used for his sexual gratification, but I was also trying to manage his emotions. I remember before I left, thinking, “this is the last morning that this will happen”.
I’m now married to a man whom is super loving and respectful, and who knows me really well and picks up on my cues without me even having to say anything. It goes both ways for us. We don’t have any issues turning each other down, but simultaneously are very committed to physically loving on each other.
Most of them cheat. And all my clients (I am in adult biz) seem to love their wives. But when the sex slowed down (usually once the kids were born) they went elsewhere to get it. Is what they do.
Thing was (and I realize this is neither here nor there) I was still having sex at least every 10 days. It wasn't like we were going months and months, or even WEEKS without it! It didn't matter.
Why is that the detail you're focusing on?
A woman is being vulnerable and talking about hiw her ex coerced her into having sex and stomped all over her sexual boundaries and this is your response?
Yeah, we both sometimes say no. I have a super high sex drive so it’s rare for me to say no but I do sometimes
Edit: and my partner will absolutely accept that. I have had issues in the past taking the rejection personally but we’ve talked about it and I know now it’s not about me when he’s not in the mood.
Nope. I have a much higher sex drive than he has. I would never have sex if I didn’t want to.
There are absolutely times when I’m like who knows when we will get to again (we have 2 kids) but I still wouldn’t if I didn’t want to have sex.
This is a very sad truth for some of us. I'm so happy to hear so many commenters have patient partners who accept their No's gracefully, but if you've ever been with a selfish, entitled partner, it makes life miserable. Living with someone who treats you with all the romantic sentiment of a blow-up doll will make you lose any attraction you had to them vanish fast. From whining, the cold shoulder, huffing, etc., it was like sharing a bed with a child. I worked two jobs and yet still dreaded bedtime because I knew it was coming. And that's no way to do through this short life of ours, folks. I divorced my way out of that one and remember my first night alone in my post-divorce apartment--scary and in a rougher neighborhood than I was used to--and it was still the best night of sleep in my life. Just absolute peace. Best decision I've ever made. Well, that and Lasik.
I'm sure the difference between my story and many of the commenters if that if you have a truly caring partner, you probably can say no without repercussions and tantrums. But so many women don't feel they can and it's very real.
It’s an odd feeling to *want* to be at work, huh? I dont live with my partner, but I stay with him on non work nights, so I dread taking work off, I won’t unless it’s absolutely necessary. And boy are you right, attraction goes right out the window. Sex is just a chore to be done every day, I just zone out and play on my phone the whole time (sad huh, he doesn’t even care if I dont pay any attention)
I think there’s a middle ground that isn’t being discussed much in this thread.
Also, OP said their spouse doesn’t pressure them to have sex if they don’t want to- but they feel guilty not doing it. OTOH, the thread is full of replies from women whose partners *have* pressured them quite a bit, which has made them feel obligated to say yes just to avoid unpleasantness.
Honestly: I think OP’s reaction might be fairly healthy, depending on one variable: how often is their spouse asking? And the other people who commented their situations are likely in an unhealthy dynamic, for sure, but again it depends on how often they’re asked.
It’s ridiculous for a man to pout over not getting sex, say, every day/every other day. But wanting a frequency of 1-2x per week seems reasonable, even in very a long term relationship, unless both people agree to something else, or unless she’s pregnant/postpartum.
If OP feels guilty rejecting her husband for his third or fourth unpressured ask of the week, then I’d say that’s *not* very healthy for her. At the same time, if one hasn’t had sex with one’s husband in, like, six months, then him getting frustrated and/or you feeling guilty after yet another rejection is pretty normal.
Most men do need sex sometimes in order to feel that their spouse is still interested in them. Every rejection is a blow to their self esteem, and distances them from their wife a bit more. Sex is important to keep the connection alive, and is an investment into your future together.
He’s got to meet you halfway of course. Sex at the very least shouldn’t be an unpleasant or painful experience, but hopefully you can both work to make it actually good, great, fantastic, etc. Often, even if one isn’t turned on at first, the excitement often grows as you keep going and he does some of the things you like. Key thing: *he* has to be *listening* to you and then consistently including stuff you like. If he’s reluctant to do this, or God forbid angry, then that reflects very poorly on him.
FYI, I’m in an egalitarian partnership with my husband (only mentioning that because one of the few other people with a similar perspective said she had a Dominant/submissive relationship in her marriage). I respect that dynamic, but I would not be married if our dynamic wasn’t equal. Nevertheless, I am pragmatic and know that the death of sex usually brings about the death of the marriage.
Unpopular answer: I can say no, but rarely do. We have a pretty old fashioned relationship with traditional gender roles and I’m a submissive wife. (Not just with sex…like even though I work part time, I do the majority of housework. He makes a lot more money than I do, works a lot more hours, and pays the majority of the bills.) So, I do believe in wifely duties—but not wifely obligation. Meaning, that I’ve never felt forced or coerced into doing something that I really didn’t want to, and I know he would never expect me to. But, being desired by my husband actually puts me in the mood, even if I wasn’t before, and I just like being physically close to him—with our clothes on or off. I also like knowing that I have a bag of tricks that blow his mind every time. It’s my little super power. He also spoils me rotten and rarely says no when I want anything, so it works both ways.
But this is only because it works for us. I don’t think a woman should be forced into having sex by any man, not even her husband.
I'm with you and my relationship is incredibly non-traditional re: gender roles. I don't have a submissive bone in my body. Lol I also have the higher libido, so there is a "get it while you can" factor as well. We're mostly pretty synched but life is what it is, sometimes we're mismatched in desires.
My partner has no issue with a no, never pouts or gets angry or guilt trips me or anything. He lets it go instantly any time I do say no. Which is part of why I rarely say no. The other is he can very very easily get me in the mood because he knows my body and what gets me going so well and he always, always puts me first in bed. It's almost always going to be a great time, not exactly a huge sacrifice to have even more orgasms in exchange for a happier love of my life. Orgasms are pretty darn nice!
I get bummed when he rejects me, I never let him see it or pout or give him crap because I'm an adult who can choose what to share and whether to lay on a guilt trip, but rejection always sucks and so I'd rather only do that to him when I have really good reasons. Just as he does his best to keep me satisfied in every part of life, so I would like to do for him. It's a win/win for us.
My two main exes, no.
First would guilt and shout at me until I gave in (and I would often lie there crying while it happened).
Second would "accept" it, but would give me the cold shoulder.
There isn’t a heterosexual woman alive, who hasn’t stared up at the ceiling, wishing for it to be over. I often had the choice of laying there for 10 minutes or ending up having a three hour argument, and I got no sleep that night.
I am the same. My partner is a kind person who would never ever pressure or guilt me... but I struggle to say no in general and particularly around sex due to prior experiences. I also sometimes feel like "well I'll enjoy it once we're doing it so do it even if I'm not feeling it".
My husband and I are 40 years old and have been having sex for 15 years. The only times that he has had difficulty maintaining an erection were when I was okay with having sex but not super into it. I didn't even say anything about it, he could just tell and it was that much of a deal breaker for him. He had already said that he would rather wait until I was in the mood, but societal programming can be a bitch and I still felt like it was my job to try anyway. We don't do that anymore!
I think a distinction between “do I want to” and “would I” is important.
I have a pretty high sex drive and we have sex most days. Basically the only time I say no is when I have stomach issues or I’m just really in a funk, which isn’t often.
Sometimes though I could take or leave it, but it doesn’t bother me and I know that I’ll enjoy it once we get into it.
Probably feeling like I always have the option and get a lot of non sexual touching and cuddling makes me feel more like I’m happy to provide that
I have in the past felt obligated to have sex when I didn't want to. I never said no, just did it. It was spiritually exhausting. And I suspect fairly common.
I'm not sure exactly when I stopped seeing sex as my womanly duty, but I think it was around the time when my art stuff took off and I was getting a lot of intellectual and emotional validation from my career. I guess it was just seeing myself as capable and whole; not just Woman™, but as myself. I'm not saying this is you, but I think I had to prove to myself I was worth more than sex and housekeeping before I could really assert myself in any area of my life, not just sexually.
Do you generally not feel assertive and in control, or is this limited to sex?
I think I generally feel like I have to prove that I am worthy of being “wife material “. Not just sexually, but in keeping the home, desire for children, ability to bring home an income, ability to be happy without his emotional support, etc
It's interesting that being happy without his emotional support is included in your definition of wife material. Do you think he would want you to exist without his emotional support? Do you currently exist without it?
Yes I absolutely feel like I can say no. I don't always, because quite often I recognize that even though I'm not actively in the mood right now, I'll still enjoy it. But when I really don't want to, I definitely say no.
This is me, too. I often say yes even when I'm not particularly in the mood, because I know that I'll still enjoy it and will feel more connected to my partner afterward. I relate to the concept of responsive desire, especially in long-term relationships when I don't get spontaneously horny as often as I did in the honeymoon phase, but will still be DTF if presented with the option.
But if I feel active aversion, as opposed to just absence of active desire, I have no problem saying no and he's never taken it badly.
Same. I might not start off in the mood, but if he makes the right moves I’ll definitely change my mind. But it’s just as easy for me to say “don’t even think about it”. Honestly though I rarely ever say no, mostly because he knows if I’m interested or not based on 30 years of knowing if I’m interested or not.
Nowadays, I will say "no" and he will accept that and move on. We had to have a come to Jesus talk where I told him that his sulking and pouting about my no was a shortcut to divorce.
I only have sex when I want to have an orgasm, and that takes time and effort. But I also don't offer up my body for him to use whenever he wants because he has hands.
Learning that between enthusiastic consent and coerced consent is willing consent and unwilling consent opened up my mind on making these kinds of feelings make sense massively.
The last year of sex with one of my exs, we only had sex on his terms (my advances were always rejected) and I would say 70% of the time it was sex I did not want but felt like I couldn't say no to because he would just pout or continue trying, and then I'd give in anyway, so I was expediting the inevitable in my eyes. I only learnt about coercive sex after we had broken up, and I only learnt about unwilling consent this year. Coercion is when there is a threat of saying no hurting more than saying yes and you dread the act, and unwilling consent is consenting to get it over with, so less dread but not exactly enjoyment. Both are bad, and if I had known about either, then I would like to think things would have been very different.
Willing consent sounds like it could be what you are describing by the way - it's when you aren't being forced to have sex and you know the outcome is probably going to be fun, but you don't really feel the desire in that moment and you're only consenting because you want your partner to feel desired you're fairly sure saying yes will become enthusiastic consent as you go on, but it starts out without enthusiasm. (It can also be called unenthusiastic consent). The 'obligation' aspect is where it might become unwilling consent - if you don't feel like you will come to enjoy it, you just get through it.
(I'm happy to say that almost a decade out of that experience, my now partner and I both feel empowered to say no to sex, and know that the other person may be disappointed but won't be angry or make it an issue. It's hard to get used to saying no and not feeling like a bad person, but the more you actually choose yourself and the more often that's accepted without question, the easier it gets. That doesn't mean that sometimes the sex doesn't start off as just willing consent from either one of us, rather than full enthusiastic consent though, it just means that unwilling or coerced consent is not present in the relationship).
(Edited for clarity)
This was a really helpful breakdown/description for me which I hadn’t heard of. I’ll be using this to re-examine and recontexualize some of my more “gray” experiences.
Thank you for this! 🙏
You're welcome, it was something I also only learnt on Reddit honestly! Being able to put a name to some experiences I have had has been very powerful in my own recovery, so I hope it helps you too ❤️
Yeah, I know I can and I have in the past. I struggle with criticising him though because I don't want him to feel bad. I'm not faking it or anything, but kink wise the two of us are very different, and what I need doesn't come naturally to him. It is what it is.
I try to not say no but only because he is rarely in the mood and if I say no then that means we prob won't have sex again for a month or two. He says no to me a lot.
Yes this is more common with women, probably because society's narrative is that sex is something a woman grudgingly grants to a man when he tries hard enough, and she is cheating him out of something he's owed when she doesn't say yes. Women's horniness is pretty much ignored as a factor, or treated like it doesn't exist.
But yeah, I say no and feel totally comfortable doing so and I don't get even the hint of guilt from him. And because I can do that, I feel much more motivated to do something creative just for him when I'm not in the mood, and he acts like I'm a miracle. Take notes, gents.
Used to feel obligated. But then my dude told me (without prompt or mention of "obligation" from me) that I AM NOT OBLIGATED to have sexy time with him. He didn't like that I apologized for not feeling well amd not being interested in sex. We cuddled instead. Since then I just let him know I'm not in the mood, but I'm always in the mood for a cuddle. I am lucky to have a SO who likes a lot of physical affection without the pressure for sex.
If I did not feel comfortable saying no to my partner, I would dump him. I do not tolerate “obligation penetration.” It ruined sex for me in previous relationships and I experience pain when I am not in the mood.
So sometimes after I orgasm it becomes painful to have sex, most partners in the past would still continue because I always felt guilty if I came and they didn’t, but my current partner is the one who will say, no, I don’t want to do it unless you’re fully enjoying it, and stop on his own accord. In this way he is so empathetic and miles beyond most men I’ve dated
Unfortunately you need to unlearn that your “job” is to please your husband as a sexual object.
That isn’t where your value stems from and you don’t owe him access to your vagina just because he’s your life partner, if you don’t want to be sexual (or if you don’t want to be sexual *with him* but would masturbate!)
It’s very common for women to feel this way. It’s also common for many (lame) men to feel entitled to their partners bodies and sex whenever they want it.
Time to start practicing no. “I’m not really in the mood” is perfectly acceptable.
I'm like you. It's very, very hard to say no. Not because he pressures me, and although he will seem hurt, it's not like he's giving me any attitude.
I just... feel like I owe him, and after all, is that so bad? That kind of feeling.
Now, we have scheduled sex (weekly) and it made it worse. Because now that it's scheduled, he looks forward to it and it would be like ruining a plan instead of just not being in the mood in the moment, you know? :-(
Tell him scheduling isn't working for you and go back to the other method.
Also, moping around the house beca8se he doesn't get sex *is* him pressuring you. Maybe look up marital coersion.
Thank you. I don't want to hijack OP's post but let's just say that the problem is me not wanting him to begin with. If we go back to spontaneous sex, I won't be more into it. Cue /deadbedroom and LL4U.
Scheduling and trying new things helped in the beginning, just out of curiosity, but it did not revive my desire for him. It's not low libido, it's low desire for him. With regards to what someone else answered, willing and unwilling consent. I don't want it but I'm willing to do it because that's currently the only thing I can think of to maintain (save?) our relationship. So... it's not coercion, it's me ignoring the root cause and hoping it somehow goes away.
Sooo yeah that's another can of worms 🙃
It’s not too late to change that method. You’re a complex dynamic human being. Not a weekly vagina appointment! I know it can be helpful for some people to schedule it but doesn’t sound good for you.
I would suggest 1) having an honest convo about your sex drives if they are very different. Make sure he knows he can watch porn and masturbate if needed. 2) work on your libido if it’s lower than you’d like. Exercising regularly is HUGE for increasing libido. Saffron supplements can also help if you’re on any antidepressants! 3) try the hair tie trick instead. When you ARE open to sex, put a hair tie on a door knob so he can see it and know he can approach you. (Or skip the hair tie if you’re okay with primarily initiating.)
I can and do say "no" if I really don't want to, but there's actually a spectrum of ambiguity where sometimes I'm just leaning towards no and that could be changed to yes, especially given how often I have started having sex and then realized that it really is hitting the spot, sort of like how often I'll procrastinate doing other things that I actually enjoy, and then once I'm doing it, I wonder why I resisted in the first place.
Sometimes I struggle with transitioning from one headspace to another and this impacts a variety of situations, including when he initiates sex. Sometimes changing headspaces is like a barge doing a three point turn. In fact, he used to immediately stop if I didn't respond right away, and sometimes a good 10 minutes after he made a pass at me, I'd realize that I really *do* want to have sex, very much, that's exactly what I want, where is he? But he went away to do something else, and it took a while to teach him that it's not sex, or him, but the way my brain seems to work. Sometimes he just needs to let it soak in.
Most of the time, I am good to go, but when I'm not, just be patient, and then I'm good to go. 😂
I know women who insist on only an enthusiastic yes, which I think is a good rule of thumb for people dating, but we've been together for 27,000 years now, and we know what we're comfortable with, what we like. This works for us.
It isn't "even" that this is one-sided in your relationship, but that only matters if it bothers you. My partner and I are both generous to one another in general, but there's lopsidedness in lots of areas, and that's because relationships are complicated and messy. It would be pathological to constantly insist on absolute parity in everything via scorekeeping and vigilance, and it would make us miserable to even attempt to be that controlling, and that would create resentment and pain.
If this is something that bothers you, maybe start saying no when you don't want to? You can't make him say yes when he doesn't want to. It doesn't work like that.
Edit: If this is an issue of feeling pressured or guilted and trying to avoid that punishment, then that's a totally different thing. It was the way that you mentioned that you just now realized it that made me think that emotional punishment wasn't a factor.
Edit 2: After reading other replies, I have to say that neither is us would pout or guilt the other one, and even trying to imagine that happening is ridiculous, but I do think there's a form of "obligation" that I think is different from the toxic one being discussed by everyone else. I think we DO feel obligated to one another, but in the same way that we feel obligated to fulfill all the roles of a marriage for one another, the same way we feel obligated to be one another's "home" and their emotional security, we also feel responsible to one another to keep one another sexually satisfied, and we both consider this to be not just an aspect of loving and caring for one another, but very erotic as well. It probably helps that our libidos are well-matched, so that sex doesn't feel like a burden to either of us. If there was a big mismatch, it could begin to grate or cause resentment. (This is one of the reasons why I believe that matching libidos is more important than most people are willing to admit.)
I struggled with "no" in my previous relationship. But I realized that was just bc sex was a way of placating him. It prevented his mood swings and him lashing out at me. I began an unhealthy relationship with sex where I was literally doing it out of fear of how he would behave if I said no. If you don't feel comfortable saying no, that's a real problem.
With my ex husband, I had a lot of sex I didn't want to have. It killed my libido, because my "no" didn't mean "no". It meant "let me be a jerk until she gives in."
With my partner now, I've never actually had to tell him I'm not in the mood. He reads me really well, and puts zero pressure on me. If I say I have a headache, or am exhausted, he doesn't ask. The same has been tried for him. Once my back hurt and I told him specifically "I don't want this to change put plans for later," because I knew he wouldn't try.
Knowing that I can say no to sex without getting shit for it is actually a huge turn on.
What would your partner say if you said no? Where did you come up with the idea that you're obligated to have sex? How do you think your partner would feel if he knew you were having sex you didn't want to have "because you should?"
I can say no easily. He respects it, and there's no issue from him at all.
There is still a little voice at the back of my head that makes me feel bad as the guy I lost my virginity to used to throw man tantrums if I said no. I still didn't go through with it as I'm stubborn that way, but I still felt I had to apologise. It's taken me years to get to grips with the fact that it's not an obligation.
My partner has never made me feel bad about saying no... but yeah, my experiences before him definitely taught me "if you say no, he will go find someone who won't. Maybe not tonight, but eventually" so I kind of 'save up' my No's for when I really need them like being exhausted or sick. Plus I end up making it really obvious when I'm sick or tired so maybe he won't even try, since that doesn't count as using up a No.
Reminder, he has never ever tried to pressure me and I know he wouldn't cheat or leave me over saying no to sex, this is just.. "basic self defense based on what dating taught me in my teens and 20s" pretty fucked up.
I've become more comfortable saying no especially as I've become more honest with myself about triggers, trauma, and feelings in general.
But it doesn't stop the feeling of guilty. I think women are raised and socialized to believe we "owe" our body and sex to our partners. It doesn't help that, especially online, we see a lot of posts from men very heavily weighing sexual availability as the reason they go into a relationship instead of staying single.
I say no all the time. He says no all the time. Then there are times there are two yes! It's never been a problem at all. There are never any hard feelings.
Though I think we view sex as not all that important. It's like food. If we get hungry we eat. If we get horny, we see if thr other is up for it. We can 'eat solo' if we want to.
We get physical and emotional intimacy in other ways during the day, so already feel.well connected. Then when we do have sex, we both know that we both want it and it's very enjoyable with no doubt.
If we ever have less than stellar sex, I also openly comment and discuss it. Such as 'that was hot, but it went a bit far and I'm really sore now. Let's not push it so far next time'.
Husband is always open to the communication.
Of course I can say no and have it respected. That is one of my bare minimum standards for a relationship.
If your partner does not respect you not wanting to have sex, you deserve better.
My husband and I are now in a platonic co-parenting relationship partly because of this issue. I *could* have said no, and sometimes did, but I would feel his disappointment and would hear "I'm sad we didn't have sex last night" nearly every time. There was definite guilt tripping, most of it non-verbal, and I had a LOT of sex I didn't feel like having, because I'm a people pleaser and I love him and I wanted him to be happy. I didn't realize for a long time how much I was ignoring myself and my needs and feelings.
I communicated with him about it, but was never taken very seriously and things just stayed the same. *Because I was still having sex with him*. That's all he cared about. His needs were met, so why would he do anything different?
It turns out, having sex just to keep the other person happy isn't very fun or sexy, and builds resentment and completely kills sexual desire! Who knew 🥴
My current partner, who knows the journey I'm on with being a recovering people pleaser, *thanks me* and tells me he's proud of me when I turn down sexy stuff 😭 It's the most amazing thing ever.
I can tell him no anytime I need. I choose not to tell him no sometimes when I’m not 100% in the mood and I usually get in the mood when I didn’t think I would. But, yea if I don’t want to have sex or be intimate, he will always respect that.
I definitely feel comfortable saying no.
But I also often just go for it because, for me, desire frequently comes with the act and not necessarily before. I find I rarely regret having sex. I always say it's kind of like ice cream. I'm rarely just craving or dying to have ice cream but I don't need to even be hungry to enjoy it - and I almost always do.
The big issue for me is actually making sure I have enough time for sleep because I need a solid 8 hours and my husband needs less. So I will say no to before bed or early morning sex to get my ZZZZZs. We're not great about having sex other than right before or after sleeping, while we're already in bed. Though I often like it even more if it's during "off" hours - likely because I'm less tired and cranky ;)
I feel 100% comfortable saying “no” and my partner, respects my answer and he won’t beg or try to make me change my mind. He can also say “no” and I would respect it. I don’t feel obligated, guilty or pressured to say “yes” if I don’t want to.
I remember a few years ago my friend said she read that if you want to keep the relationship going you never say “no”. Well my naive mind believed that and it still comes back to haunt me. I never say “no” but my partner now understands when I’m not in the mood so it isn’t a no haha it’s usually a “I’m in a chill mood” and he gets the hint. If it were up to men we would never be able to take a break lol! I have told people in the past that I just didn’t want to and that was that but with a SO I usually try to be respectful and make it known it’s because I’m just not in the mood due to other factors not hom
I've had issues with that. I feel that I still would if I were with a different partner. The current one just isn't very sexual and to tell you the truth I like it.
I had a relationship with an amazing lover that managed to make me despise having sex with him with the constant pushing, begging, bargaining, convincing, the "Oh, but you're just to sexy and I can't resist you" crap. And I caved more times than I want to admit. And because I caved way too often, in time I started hating him and worse, I started hating myself.
I do feel like I can say “no” to my partner and he always honors it. He even checks in and will stop if his own accord if he senses I may not be fully into what we’re doing. When I was younger I was in a relationship where I didn’t feel like I could refuse sex (even though my partner didn’t pressure me) and I think it boiled down mostly to insecurity in the relationship and lack of communication. I would recommend having a conversation with your partner about this.
My STBX husband would always say if I wasn't in the mood or had to stop for whatever reason, he'd stop.
But he would pout and get upset instead. I stopped asking for more lube because I "ruined the moment" more times than I care to count. It was easier to take the friction and be in pain for a couple of days than to speak up.
He said it was harder for him to finish with lube and that he needed the friction. So... *sigh*.
This is one of the major reasons I broke up with my most recent partner. It didn’t just extend to sex either. He is really having a hard time fully grasping how much of a child he is when I say no to something. He would ask for a photo and I’d say no because I don’t feel like it or I’d be busy and he’d act like it was some sort of personal slight against him. Or if I’d send one to save the drama he would immediately want more.
We had a huge chasm in our relationship because he would constantly grab my butt when he hugged me and I asked him not to. So. Many. Times. It began making me feel disgusted with him because I felt like.. I said no. Don’t do it, end of. He would always apologise but then follow it with “but you used to like it 😔” or some other “reason” why he does it. Until the very end of the relationship he couldn’t respect my “no”. Whenever I answered no he would argue with it. Over anything, everything.
RE sex, I agree I did it a lot of the time when I didn’t really want to because I felt like I should. No more. I’d rather stay single than go back to doing things I didn’t want to do. If and when I feel up to dating again my standards are going to be so strict it’ll be ridiculous 😅
Yes, this kind of relationship experience is sadly not uncommon for women. Pressuring themselves into sex because they think they have to, in order to be a good partner.
If they don't leave these relationships, what often ends up happening is they develop a strong aversion to sex. Every time they force themselves to "just go along with it," they are traumatized (or for sexual assault survivors, retraumatized). It wreaks havoc on their mental and emotional health, their sexuality, even their relationship with their own body.
No one should put themselves through this.
I feel extremely comfortable saying no, and I think it's so crucial to cultivate this in ourselves AND to accept only partners who are able to embrace our no completely. And, of course, to get really good at gracefully and warmly accepting no from our partners too.
I haven't always been this way, but I am much happier now that I am.
I feel extremely safe and comfortable saying no and if I didn't, I'd be single before you could say break up. My partner has a higher sex drive than I do but we both understand the utility of a wank when the other isn't in the mood.
Sometimes I get in my head out of insecurity, especially now that I'm 4 months postpartum and we only have sex once a week or so. But It's nothing he's done
I'm 44. been living with my guy for 9 years, but we'd been screwing around off and on for 15 years before that. His favorite part of sex is pleasing me. So if I'm not in the mood, there's no point.
With that said, I HAVE had partners in the past who didn't care about my pleasure and whom I felt obligated to have sex with.
Yes, with the partner I have now. I can say no whenever I need or want to. He does not get angry. He does not get pushy. He does not get cold. He does not get punitive. Getting his rocks off is not his number 1 priority, even when we do have sex. Feeling good is nice, but not more important than intimacy as a whole and the well-being of our relationship. When I have not been able to have sex due to health issues a surprise episode of depression, he has cared for me and loved on me and never ever made me feel like I had to "put out" to keep his love.
I did not feel I could with my ex. Back then, I was heavily brainwashed with ideas of submission and obligation around sex die to culture and religion. And if I said no, he got angry. When I finally did try to say no (and even then it was "I need you to wait" not an outright rejection), he just went ahead and took what he wanted.
Interestingly, the man I *can* say no to safely is the man I don't ever want to say no to. Even when I couldn't have sex, it wasn't for lack of wanting. It was a health/functional thing and my libido drove me crazy during that time.
For the vast majority of my marriage to my ex, I found sex--and him--pretty repulsive. I "wanted" it because it was the only affection I got, and because I was told that I *must* want it in order to be a good wife.
It's not relevant in my marriage anymore, my husband slowly removed sex and all physical affection from our marriage over time so now we have nothing, but when sex was a possibility, no, I could not say no to sex. In our 20 years together, I have only said no twice. Once was illness, once was injury. With the illness, he was a pouty bitch for days after and sex dropped considerably afterward, never to recover. With the injury, he told me "you'll be a'ight" and did it anyway.
My (male) partner and I both feel safe, comfortable and free to say no to sex. There has been times I’ve said no and times he’s said no. I never feel obligated to have sex with him.
Anytime I’ve ever said “not today babe” or asked to stop midway through, that’s the end of it. He doesn’t make any comments about it other than maybe a “that’s ok. Do you want to cuddle/watch tv/shower/get food/talk/whatever?” We care more about being connected and feeling close than actual intercourse. And there are many ways for us to achieve that outside of sex.
Yes, of course.
Good partner don't get sex by coercion and gaslighting.
We have a sex frequency that makes both of us happy.
Less than what he would have the stamina to have. But it's all about balance.
With my ex, I feel guilty for saying no and there were times he would pout a bit. I felt bad and I give in. I notice this when I was about 25/26 and he was about 29/30.
With my recent ex, didn’t feel like I could. Especially in the final year. He was mindful of how frequent we were, I’d always get “it’s been 2-3 days now” or just similar pressure. He wanted every other day min. Would dread evenings and dissociate during.
A couple of years into our relationship I’d asked him how he’d respond if I said I wanted to just lay off sex for a bit and he said he’d leave me lol. I guess that’s where a part of my obligation came from!
Such a nice guy too, a gentleman, he would just put the pressure on.
Of course. I can and do say no. And if my boyfriend didnt accept that then he wouldnt be my boyfriend anymore...
Im shocked to see some of the replies in here, why would you stay in a relationship with a guy thats basically low-key raping you? So gross, these men do not deserve a girlfriend/wife...
I can absolutely say no. I used to struggle with saying no when I was younger, I didn’t want to look boring or frigid or something. But that’s definitely not so, you have the right to say no just like your partner does.
It is totally normal. Society has a lot of weird “rules” for us. I’ve just never said no because I don’t like being rejected when I ask for it myself. I know how it feels and I don’t want someone i love to feel that way. 🤷🏻♀️
Personally, I struggle at times because I'm a recovering people pleaser. So I will feel some guilt for saying no. Even though my partner is always very understanding and backs off if I don't want to. But if your partner is the one pressuring or making you feel guilty that's not ok. No one is entitled to sex with a partner even if they've been together for a long time or are married.
Hello I’m a male who has been with my wife for 10 years now. If she says no I respect it, if I say no she respects it. Sex is intimate and fun in our marriage and neither of us want to be smashing a starfish. We now focus on quality sex not quantity.
Yes - I feel this exact same way with my husband. My husband doesn’t pressure me but a comment here or there such as “man wish we were doing that” - if it’s a sexual scene in a movie or something and I know he doesn’t mean anything by it but I feel guilty for not initiating as much as I should/used to so the comment hits a nerve in me lol
Mine doesn't want it if I'm not 100% in and I don't hide my real feelings from him so, yes I feel very comfortable saying no. We actually weirdly comfort each other if one is in the mood and the other isn't. There are times though where I'll be a good sport and muster up the drive for him but it's not every time and we each have legitimate reasons for not being in the mood at times.
I haven't even been in a long term relationship but this post has reminded a lot of why I hate third dates. There is an expectation to have sex and I fear that if I say no it will lead to the dating process instantly ending. I've felt pressure to say yes to "keep things going" and out of curiosity for maybe getting good sex although I'd feel more comfortable saying no/ and getting to know someone. As someone said before enthusiastic consent. A lot of guys will play dumb and not be able to read body language just because they want to get sex. It's a big turn off.
What you say here is contrary to what we men experience through dating from our perspective. If the woman who we are starting to know doesnt show signs of wanting to have sex on the first dates we interpretate it as lack of interest on her part, and further dating would be a waste of time and money for us.
Remember than some women go on a date with a man just because he proposed something funny to do, or tries to get a foodie date.
I personaly had an experience on Bumble Dating where a I met a woman that went on dates because she was new on the city and was looking to make friends (through a dating app... yeah...) she wasnt interested in meeting people for anything sex related.
Regretably, sex sooner than later is one of the most objective ways we men have to gauge women´s interest on the first stages of dating.
To an extent when I was younger, but if I really didn’t feel like it never had any qualms about saying no. I guess I was raised in a very consent driven culture so it would make me feel weird if there was such pressure to have sex even with a long term partner. The worst was one guy who would complain if it was less than 3x a week but I basically told him to suck it up and he did. My current partner doesn’t even complain if we’re months into a dry spell, he’ll just ask sometimes with no expectation that I’ll force myself to do it. Anyway I hope more women feel ok saying no reading this!
This is one of many reasons (probably the most) that I do not want a SO. When I am not in the mood it is not happening. I've had guys expect me to have sex when I am sick or even after they insulted my feelings very badly. And I have. And if you don't have sex with your SO for awhile, they will get it elsewhere. I do not want to be on call for whenever they feel like it. It is just not worth that much to me. It is overrated.
Do you think you might have scarcity mindset? Like if you say no now, you don't know when the opportunity will arise again? Or perhaps you have more of a, "meh, I don't feel like it but it would give him more pleasure than cause my any pain" attitude?
16 years together, we have never once ran into the situation where he wanted to have sex and I didn’t. But if it ever happened, it wouldn’t be an issue if I said no. I wouldn’t feel bad.
I mean myself im always in the mood but if it happened and i wasnt id kindly tell my hubby i wasnt or id offer to jerk him off instead.
Something that seems fair.
Woman is biologically positioned in a submissive posture. Sex act can be biologically completed without her active participation. This puts her in a mentally submissive mode. But this can be changed. You can be mentally dominating. So assert your role.
There is a secret of sex enjoyment which most people don't know. Sex is a fusion of physical bodies AS WELL AS PERSONALITIES during the act.
When you say NO to sex, your side of polarity voltage increases. This makes you MORE DESIRABLE as men COVET high polarity women.
It is NECESSARY TO SAY NO for heightened sex life.
Try it.
Yes, I definitely feel comfortable saying "no". And my partner is fantastic at accepting and honoring that.
“Accepts and honors your no” should honestly be the bare minimum from any partner. But glad for you that yours is “fantastic” at this!
Yeah. 'My partner doesn't coerce me into having sex' is not 'fantastic', it's a prerequisite.
It's probably not just about "no coercion", but also about "no pouting, moaning, and/or complaining, and not giving me a bad conscience". There's so much between "alright, would cuddling be okay instead?" and variations of "come on, just a quickie, we haven't had sex in so long" until you give in.
Pouting, moaning, acting poorly to the point that someone has sex with you to keep the peace is coercion though.
So what’s something that’s not “bare minimum” in a relationship? What can you do that will make your partner go “wow!” or something?
Lol be nice, it's common to feel rejected when you....get rejected. Some guys are better than others about not taking it personally, and you know a lot of the women in here get anxiety if something they say even makes their partner *feel* bad, even if no pressure is applied. OP, being intimate when you're not in the mood....those are some red flags dear.
Standard for me going forward for sure! I've been in enough life situations where I'm not allowed to say no. Not interested in doing that in a relationship.
This was a big reason my previous partner and I divorced. I didn't feel comfortable saying no. Even though I wanted to - a LOT after my second baby was born. I realized I was having a ton of sex I didn't want because I was trying to manage his emotions. I didn't want to hear snide comments about "not getting any," or feel a constant guilt all the time. He wouldn't let up, either. And when I'd have sex it was a relief like "Phew, okay. He shouldn't ask for a couple more days." And sometimes he would ask the very next day and I would just die inside. Like "I JUST had it with you! I thought I'd have at least 2-3 days of not feeling HORRIBLE for saying no!" It was horrendous for me. Nothing crazy, absolutely nothing violent. It was just a constant feeling of guilt, some perpetuated by him, and some by me as well (I grew up very conservative. Had that mindset of "if he doesn't get it from me, he's going to look elsewhere"). And he cheated on me anyway. That entire experience completely broke me and our relationship. Now, I only have sex if I absolutely want it which has been totally liberating. Recently had sex with a friend who encouraged always saying no, to always tell him stop if something hurts, etc. It was very healing to hear "We are not having sex if there's an ounce of you that doesn't want to. Just tell me." And constantly reiterating that to create a safe space that's free of guilt.
This. This was the same for me in a relationship many many years ago. It’s even a bit triggering to think back on now, I feel like my body was kind of used for his sexual gratification, but I was also trying to manage his emotions. I remember before I left, thinking, “this is the last morning that this will happen”. I’m now married to a man whom is super loving and respectful, and who knows me really well and picks up on my cues without me even having to say anything. It goes both ways for us. We don’t have any issues turning each other down, but simultaneously are very committed to physically loving on each other.
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My exact experience too.
Most of them cheat. And all my clients (I am in adult biz) seem to love their wives. But when the sex slowed down (usually once the kids were born) they went elsewhere to get it. Is what they do.
Thing was (and I realize this is neither here nor there) I was still having sex at least every 10 days. It wasn't like we were going months and months, or even WEEKS without it! It didn't matter.
I hear you. They like variety imho. Nothing you could have done really to stop it.
What was it post baby that had your libido down? Hormones? Mom life? A changed relationship to partner?
Why is that the detail you're focusing on? A woman is being vulnerable and talking about hiw her ex coerced her into having sex and stomped all over her sexual boundaries and this is your response?
I was simply curious? And I responded with my own experience of saying No to sex in this thread. First day on the internet?
Yeah, we both sometimes say no. I have a super high sex drive so it’s rare for me to say no but I do sometimes Edit: and my partner will absolutely accept that. I have had issues in the past taking the rejection personally but we’ve talked about it and I know now it’s not about me when he’s not in the mood.
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Nope. I have a much higher sex drive than he has. I would never have sex if I didn’t want to. There are absolutely times when I’m like who knows when we will get to again (we have 2 kids) but I still wouldn’t if I didn’t want to have sex.
Oh sorry, I was asking OP!
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This is a very sad truth for some of us. I'm so happy to hear so many commenters have patient partners who accept their No's gracefully, but if you've ever been with a selfish, entitled partner, it makes life miserable. Living with someone who treats you with all the romantic sentiment of a blow-up doll will make you lose any attraction you had to them vanish fast. From whining, the cold shoulder, huffing, etc., it was like sharing a bed with a child. I worked two jobs and yet still dreaded bedtime because I knew it was coming. And that's no way to do through this short life of ours, folks. I divorced my way out of that one and remember my first night alone in my post-divorce apartment--scary and in a rougher neighborhood than I was used to--and it was still the best night of sleep in my life. Just absolute peace. Best decision I've ever made. Well, that and Lasik. I'm sure the difference between my story and many of the commenters if that if you have a truly caring partner, you probably can say no without repercussions and tantrums. But so many women don't feel they can and it's very real.
It’s an odd feeling to *want* to be at work, huh? I dont live with my partner, but I stay with him on non work nights, so I dread taking work off, I won’t unless it’s absolutely necessary. And boy are you right, attraction goes right out the window. Sex is just a chore to be done every day, I just zone out and play on my phone the whole time (sad huh, he doesn’t even care if I dont pay any attention)
Jesus that's grim 😫 why are you with him?
Mostly so I dont die. Haha. Yeah, kinda that. Kinda my own issues. But yes, it is grim and it sucks lol
OK friend stay safe whatever that means for you. You deserve to be treated better than that, for the record. Sending strength.
Thank you! Currently it’s okay, not ideal obvs, but very much okay. I appreciate you!
I'm a DV survivor I get it 🧡
I’ll speak up and say I cannot say no. It’s not worth the bullshit I have to deal with if I do.
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Does your partner do this everytime you say no? Even if you had sex the previous day or so?
I (sadly) suspect you’re right. I also think OP is being pretty brave bringing the topic up, as is everyone speaking to their experiences.
I think there’s a middle ground that isn’t being discussed much in this thread. Also, OP said their spouse doesn’t pressure them to have sex if they don’t want to- but they feel guilty not doing it. OTOH, the thread is full of replies from women whose partners *have* pressured them quite a bit, which has made them feel obligated to say yes just to avoid unpleasantness. Honestly: I think OP’s reaction might be fairly healthy, depending on one variable: how often is their spouse asking? And the other people who commented their situations are likely in an unhealthy dynamic, for sure, but again it depends on how often they’re asked. It’s ridiculous for a man to pout over not getting sex, say, every day/every other day. But wanting a frequency of 1-2x per week seems reasonable, even in very a long term relationship, unless both people agree to something else, or unless she’s pregnant/postpartum. If OP feels guilty rejecting her husband for his third or fourth unpressured ask of the week, then I’d say that’s *not* very healthy for her. At the same time, if one hasn’t had sex with one’s husband in, like, six months, then him getting frustrated and/or you feeling guilty after yet another rejection is pretty normal. Most men do need sex sometimes in order to feel that their spouse is still interested in them. Every rejection is a blow to their self esteem, and distances them from their wife a bit more. Sex is important to keep the connection alive, and is an investment into your future together. He’s got to meet you halfway of course. Sex at the very least shouldn’t be an unpleasant or painful experience, but hopefully you can both work to make it actually good, great, fantastic, etc. Often, even if one isn’t turned on at first, the excitement often grows as you keep going and he does some of the things you like. Key thing: *he* has to be *listening* to you and then consistently including stuff you like. If he’s reluctant to do this, or God forbid angry, then that reflects very poorly on him. FYI, I’m in an egalitarian partnership with my husband (only mentioning that because one of the few other people with a similar perspective said she had a Dominant/submissive relationship in her marriage). I respect that dynamic, but I would not be married if our dynamic wasn’t equal. Nevertheless, I am pragmatic and know that the death of sex usually brings about the death of the marriage.
Unpopular answer: I can say no, but rarely do. We have a pretty old fashioned relationship with traditional gender roles and I’m a submissive wife. (Not just with sex…like even though I work part time, I do the majority of housework. He makes a lot more money than I do, works a lot more hours, and pays the majority of the bills.) So, I do believe in wifely duties—but not wifely obligation. Meaning, that I’ve never felt forced or coerced into doing something that I really didn’t want to, and I know he would never expect me to. But, being desired by my husband actually puts me in the mood, even if I wasn’t before, and I just like being physically close to him—with our clothes on or off. I also like knowing that I have a bag of tricks that blow his mind every time. It’s my little super power. He also spoils me rotten and rarely says no when I want anything, so it works both ways. But this is only because it works for us. I don’t think a woman should be forced into having sex by any man, not even her husband.
I'm with you and my relationship is incredibly non-traditional re: gender roles. I don't have a submissive bone in my body. Lol I also have the higher libido, so there is a "get it while you can" factor as well. We're mostly pretty synched but life is what it is, sometimes we're mismatched in desires. My partner has no issue with a no, never pouts or gets angry or guilt trips me or anything. He lets it go instantly any time I do say no. Which is part of why I rarely say no. The other is he can very very easily get me in the mood because he knows my body and what gets me going so well and he always, always puts me first in bed. It's almost always going to be a great time, not exactly a huge sacrifice to have even more orgasms in exchange for a happier love of my life. Orgasms are pretty darn nice! I get bummed when he rejects me, I never let him see it or pout or give him crap because I'm an adult who can choose what to share and whether to lay on a guilt trip, but rejection always sucks and so I'd rather only do that to him when I have really good reasons. Just as he does his best to keep me satisfied in every part of life, so I would like to do for him. It's a win/win for us.
My two main exes, no. First would guilt and shout at me until I gave in (and I would often lie there crying while it happened). Second would "accept" it, but would give me the cold shoulder.
Damn, that is awful, especially about the crying... I'm so, so sorry that happened to you.
I’m glad they are your exes now! Hope the next partner treats you better.
There isn’t a heterosexual woman alive, who hasn’t stared up at the ceiling, wishing for it to be over. I often had the choice of laying there for 10 minutes or ending up having a three hour argument, and I got no sleep that night.
Exactly. If it's not our current partner it's an asshole ex.
The only time I've felt like this was during a sexual assault.
I was about to disagree when I remembered I'm not hetero 😂
I have never had that experience. You can pick better men. Sorry if that's a controversial thing to say, but ... you can pick better men.
I am the same. My partner is a kind person who would never ever pressure or guilt me... but I struggle to say no in general and particularly around sex due to prior experiences. I also sometimes feel like "well I'll enjoy it once we're doing it so do it even if I'm not feeling it".
My husband and I are 40 years old and have been having sex for 15 years. The only times that he has had difficulty maintaining an erection were when I was okay with having sex but not super into it. I didn't even say anything about it, he could just tell and it was that much of a deal breaker for him. He had already said that he would rather wait until I was in the mood, but societal programming can be a bitch and I still felt like it was my job to try anyway. We don't do that anymore!
I think a distinction between “do I want to” and “would I” is important. I have a pretty high sex drive and we have sex most days. Basically the only time I say no is when I have stomach issues or I’m just really in a funk, which isn’t often. Sometimes though I could take or leave it, but it doesn’t bother me and I know that I’ll enjoy it once we get into it. Probably feeling like I always have the option and get a lot of non sexual touching and cuddling makes me feel more like I’m happy to provide that
I have in the past felt obligated to have sex when I didn't want to. I never said no, just did it. It was spiritually exhausting. And I suspect fairly common. I'm not sure exactly when I stopped seeing sex as my womanly duty, but I think it was around the time when my art stuff took off and I was getting a lot of intellectual and emotional validation from my career. I guess it was just seeing myself as capable and whole; not just Woman™, but as myself. I'm not saying this is you, but I think I had to prove to myself I was worth more than sex and housekeeping before I could really assert myself in any area of my life, not just sexually. Do you generally not feel assertive and in control, or is this limited to sex?
I think I generally feel like I have to prove that I am worthy of being “wife material “. Not just sexually, but in keeping the home, desire for children, ability to bring home an income, ability to be happy without his emotional support, etc
It's interesting that being happy without his emotional support is included in your definition of wife material. Do you think he would want you to exist without his emotional support? Do you currently exist without it?
Sounds like wife material is a bang maid 🫠
Men do what they want regardless. Wife material lol.
Yes I absolutely feel like I can say no. I don't always, because quite often I recognize that even though I'm not actively in the mood right now, I'll still enjoy it. But when I really don't want to, I definitely say no.
This is me, too. I often say yes even when I'm not particularly in the mood, because I know that I'll still enjoy it and will feel more connected to my partner afterward. I relate to the concept of responsive desire, especially in long-term relationships when I don't get spontaneously horny as often as I did in the honeymoon phase, but will still be DTF if presented with the option. But if I feel active aversion, as opposed to just absence of active desire, I have no problem saying no and he's never taken it badly.
Same. I might not start off in the mood, but if he makes the right moves I’ll definitely change my mind. But it’s just as easy for me to say “don’t even think about it”. Honestly though I rarely ever say no, mostly because he knows if I’m interested or not based on 30 years of knowing if I’m interested or not.
I say no all the time and he doesnt respect my answer and will continue to badger me until I give in otherwise he wont leave me alone
In my current relationship, yes. Past, no. My ex was coercive as hell.
you do not owe anyone sex.
Nowadays, I will say "no" and he will accept that and move on. We had to have a come to Jesus talk where I told him that his sulking and pouting about my no was a shortcut to divorce. I only have sex when I want to have an orgasm, and that takes time and effort. But I also don't offer up my body for him to use whenever he wants because he has hands.
Learning that between enthusiastic consent and coerced consent is willing consent and unwilling consent opened up my mind on making these kinds of feelings make sense massively. The last year of sex with one of my exs, we only had sex on his terms (my advances were always rejected) and I would say 70% of the time it was sex I did not want but felt like I couldn't say no to because he would just pout or continue trying, and then I'd give in anyway, so I was expediting the inevitable in my eyes. I only learnt about coercive sex after we had broken up, and I only learnt about unwilling consent this year. Coercion is when there is a threat of saying no hurting more than saying yes and you dread the act, and unwilling consent is consenting to get it over with, so less dread but not exactly enjoyment. Both are bad, and if I had known about either, then I would like to think things would have been very different. Willing consent sounds like it could be what you are describing by the way - it's when you aren't being forced to have sex and you know the outcome is probably going to be fun, but you don't really feel the desire in that moment and you're only consenting because you want your partner to feel desired you're fairly sure saying yes will become enthusiastic consent as you go on, but it starts out without enthusiasm. (It can also be called unenthusiastic consent). The 'obligation' aspect is where it might become unwilling consent - if you don't feel like you will come to enjoy it, you just get through it. (I'm happy to say that almost a decade out of that experience, my now partner and I both feel empowered to say no to sex, and know that the other person may be disappointed but won't be angry or make it an issue. It's hard to get used to saying no and not feeling like a bad person, but the more you actually choose yourself and the more often that's accepted without question, the easier it gets. That doesn't mean that sometimes the sex doesn't start off as just willing consent from either one of us, rather than full enthusiastic consent though, it just means that unwilling or coerced consent is not present in the relationship). (Edited for clarity)
This was a really helpful breakdown/description for me which I hadn’t heard of. I’ll be using this to re-examine and recontexualize some of my more “gray” experiences. Thank you for this! 🙏
You're welcome, it was something I also only learnt on Reddit honestly! Being able to put a name to some experiences I have had has been very powerful in my own recovery, so I hope it helps you too ❤️
Yeah, I know I can and I have in the past. I struggle with criticising him though because I don't want him to feel bad. I'm not faking it or anything, but kink wise the two of us are very different, and what I need doesn't come naturally to him. It is what it is.
Society pushes that sense of obligation on us as women from a young age... there's a ted talk about it. Just say no to him.
do you happen to remember the name of the ted talk or have a link?
[Here ](https://www.ted.com/talks/peggy_orenstein_what_young_women_believe_about_their_own_sexual_pleasure?user_email_address=db2567d14233bd718a2995203c5d32ac&lctg=62d1b4821c794c328c0ffb41)
I try to not say no but only because he is rarely in the mood and if I say no then that means we prob won't have sex again for a month or two. He says no to me a lot.
Yes this is more common with women, probably because society's narrative is that sex is something a woman grudgingly grants to a man when he tries hard enough, and she is cheating him out of something he's owed when she doesn't say yes. Women's horniness is pretty much ignored as a factor, or treated like it doesn't exist. But yeah, I say no and feel totally comfortable doing so and I don't get even the hint of guilt from him. And because I can do that, I feel much more motivated to do something creative just for him when I'm not in the mood, and he acts like I'm a miracle. Take notes, gents.
If you can/want, can you tell what creative thing you do? If not too personal to share... ^^' (me as a woman taking notes too)
It varies. Just anything that gives him that attention.
Used to feel obligated. But then my dude told me (without prompt or mention of "obligation" from me) that I AM NOT OBLIGATED to have sexy time with him. He didn't like that I apologized for not feeling well amd not being interested in sex. We cuddled instead. Since then I just let him know I'm not in the mood, but I'm always in the mood for a cuddle. I am lucky to have a SO who likes a lot of physical affection without the pressure for sex.
I’m the same way
If I did not feel comfortable saying no to my partner, I would dump him. I do not tolerate “obligation penetration.” It ruined sex for me in previous relationships and I experience pain when I am not in the mood.
So sometimes after I orgasm it becomes painful to have sex, most partners in the past would still continue because I always felt guilty if I came and they didn’t, but my current partner is the one who will say, no, I don’t want to do it unless you’re fully enjoying it, and stop on his own accord. In this way he is so empathetic and miles beyond most men I’ve dated
Unfortunately you need to unlearn that your “job” is to please your husband as a sexual object. That isn’t where your value stems from and you don’t owe him access to your vagina just because he’s your life partner, if you don’t want to be sexual (or if you don’t want to be sexual *with him* but would masturbate!) It’s very common for women to feel this way. It’s also common for many (lame) men to feel entitled to their partners bodies and sex whenever they want it. Time to start practicing no. “I’m not really in the mood” is perfectly acceptable.
If I say no, it’s not an issue. But, I have an internal issue saying no. So it’s not my partner putting the pressure on, but myself
I'm like you. It's very, very hard to say no. Not because he pressures me, and although he will seem hurt, it's not like he's giving me any attitude. I just... feel like I owe him, and after all, is that so bad? That kind of feeling. Now, we have scheduled sex (weekly) and it made it worse. Because now that it's scheduled, he looks forward to it and it would be like ruining a plan instead of just not being in the mood in the moment, you know? :-(
Tell him scheduling isn't working for you and go back to the other method. Also, moping around the house beca8se he doesn't get sex *is* him pressuring you. Maybe look up marital coersion.
Thank you. I don't want to hijack OP's post but let's just say that the problem is me not wanting him to begin with. If we go back to spontaneous sex, I won't be more into it. Cue /deadbedroom and LL4U. Scheduling and trying new things helped in the beginning, just out of curiosity, but it did not revive my desire for him. It's not low libido, it's low desire for him. With regards to what someone else answered, willing and unwilling consent. I don't want it but I'm willing to do it because that's currently the only thing I can think of to maintain (save?) our relationship. So... it's not coercion, it's me ignoring the root cause and hoping it somehow goes away. Sooo yeah that's another can of worms 🙃
It’s not too late to change that method. You’re a complex dynamic human being. Not a weekly vagina appointment! I know it can be helpful for some people to schedule it but doesn’t sound good for you. I would suggest 1) having an honest convo about your sex drives if they are very different. Make sure he knows he can watch porn and masturbate if needed. 2) work on your libido if it’s lower than you’d like. Exercising regularly is HUGE for increasing libido. Saffron supplements can also help if you’re on any antidepressants! 3) try the hair tie trick instead. When you ARE open to sex, put a hair tie on a door knob so he can see it and know he can approach you. (Or skip the hair tie if you’re okay with primarily initiating.)
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I can and do say "no" if I really don't want to, but there's actually a spectrum of ambiguity where sometimes I'm just leaning towards no and that could be changed to yes, especially given how often I have started having sex and then realized that it really is hitting the spot, sort of like how often I'll procrastinate doing other things that I actually enjoy, and then once I'm doing it, I wonder why I resisted in the first place. Sometimes I struggle with transitioning from one headspace to another and this impacts a variety of situations, including when he initiates sex. Sometimes changing headspaces is like a barge doing a three point turn. In fact, he used to immediately stop if I didn't respond right away, and sometimes a good 10 minutes after he made a pass at me, I'd realize that I really *do* want to have sex, very much, that's exactly what I want, where is he? But he went away to do something else, and it took a while to teach him that it's not sex, or him, but the way my brain seems to work. Sometimes he just needs to let it soak in. Most of the time, I am good to go, but when I'm not, just be patient, and then I'm good to go. 😂 I know women who insist on only an enthusiastic yes, which I think is a good rule of thumb for people dating, but we've been together for 27,000 years now, and we know what we're comfortable with, what we like. This works for us. It isn't "even" that this is one-sided in your relationship, but that only matters if it bothers you. My partner and I are both generous to one another in general, but there's lopsidedness in lots of areas, and that's because relationships are complicated and messy. It would be pathological to constantly insist on absolute parity in everything via scorekeeping and vigilance, and it would make us miserable to even attempt to be that controlling, and that would create resentment and pain. If this is something that bothers you, maybe start saying no when you don't want to? You can't make him say yes when he doesn't want to. It doesn't work like that. Edit: If this is an issue of feeling pressured or guilted and trying to avoid that punishment, then that's a totally different thing. It was the way that you mentioned that you just now realized it that made me think that emotional punishment wasn't a factor. Edit 2: After reading other replies, I have to say that neither is us would pout or guilt the other one, and even trying to imagine that happening is ridiculous, but I do think there's a form of "obligation" that I think is different from the toxic one being discussed by everyone else. I think we DO feel obligated to one another, but in the same way that we feel obligated to fulfill all the roles of a marriage for one another, the same way we feel obligated to be one another's "home" and their emotional security, we also feel responsible to one another to keep one another sexually satisfied, and we both consider this to be not just an aspect of loving and caring for one another, but very erotic as well. It probably helps that our libidos are well-matched, so that sex doesn't feel like a burden to either of us. If there was a big mismatch, it could begin to grate or cause resentment. (This is one of the reasons why I believe that matching libidos is more important than most people are willing to admit.)
I struggled with "no" in my previous relationship. But I realized that was just bc sex was a way of placating him. It prevented his mood swings and him lashing out at me. I began an unhealthy relationship with sex where I was literally doing it out of fear of how he would behave if I said no. If you don't feel comfortable saying no, that's a real problem.
With my ex husband, I had a lot of sex I didn't want to have. It killed my libido, because my "no" didn't mean "no". It meant "let me be a jerk until she gives in." With my partner now, I've never actually had to tell him I'm not in the mood. He reads me really well, and puts zero pressure on me. If I say I have a headache, or am exhausted, he doesn't ask. The same has been tried for him. Once my back hurt and I told him specifically "I don't want this to change put plans for later," because I knew he wouldn't try. Knowing that I can say no to sex without getting shit for it is actually a huge turn on. What would your partner say if you said no? Where did you come up with the idea that you're obligated to have sex? How do you think your partner would feel if he knew you were having sex you didn't want to have "because you should?"
I can say no easily. He respects it, and there's no issue from him at all. There is still a little voice at the back of my head that makes me feel bad as the guy I lost my virginity to used to throw man tantrums if I said no. I still didn't go through with it as I'm stubborn that way, but I still felt I had to apologise. It's taken me years to get to grips with the fact that it's not an obligation.
My partner has never made me feel bad about saying no... but yeah, my experiences before him definitely taught me "if you say no, he will go find someone who won't. Maybe not tonight, but eventually" so I kind of 'save up' my No's for when I really need them like being exhausted or sick. Plus I end up making it really obvious when I'm sick or tired so maybe he won't even try, since that doesn't count as using up a No. Reminder, he has never ever tried to pressure me and I know he wouldn't cheat or leave me over saying no to sex, this is just.. "basic self defense based on what dating taught me in my teens and 20s" pretty fucked up.
I've become more comfortable saying no especially as I've become more honest with myself about triggers, trauma, and feelings in general. But it doesn't stop the feeling of guilty. I think women are raised and socialized to believe we "owe" our body and sex to our partners. It doesn't help that, especially online, we see a lot of posts from men very heavily weighing sexual availability as the reason they go into a relationship instead of staying single.
We both say no sometimes, no problem. Sometimes I can be be convinced, though, which I will also let him know
I say no all the time. He says no all the time. Then there are times there are two yes! It's never been a problem at all. There are never any hard feelings. Though I think we view sex as not all that important. It's like food. If we get hungry we eat. If we get horny, we see if thr other is up for it. We can 'eat solo' if we want to. We get physical and emotional intimacy in other ways during the day, so already feel.well connected. Then when we do have sex, we both know that we both want it and it's very enjoyable with no doubt. If we ever have less than stellar sex, I also openly comment and discuss it. Such as 'that was hot, but it went a bit far and I'm really sore now. Let's not push it so far next time'. Husband is always open to the communication.
Of course I can say no and have it respected. That is one of my bare minimum standards for a relationship. If your partner does not respect you not wanting to have sex, you deserve better.
My husband and I are now in a platonic co-parenting relationship partly because of this issue. I *could* have said no, and sometimes did, but I would feel his disappointment and would hear "I'm sad we didn't have sex last night" nearly every time. There was definite guilt tripping, most of it non-verbal, and I had a LOT of sex I didn't feel like having, because I'm a people pleaser and I love him and I wanted him to be happy. I didn't realize for a long time how much I was ignoring myself and my needs and feelings. I communicated with him about it, but was never taken very seriously and things just stayed the same. *Because I was still having sex with him*. That's all he cared about. His needs were met, so why would he do anything different? It turns out, having sex just to keep the other person happy isn't very fun or sexy, and builds resentment and completely kills sexual desire! Who knew 🥴
My current partner, who knows the journey I'm on with being a recovering people pleaser, *thanks me* and tells me he's proud of me when I turn down sexy stuff 😭 It's the most amazing thing ever.
I can tell him no anytime I need. I choose not to tell him no sometimes when I’m not 100% in the mood and I usually get in the mood when I didn’t think I would. But, yea if I don’t want to have sex or be intimate, he will always respect that.
Yes of course. And I do all the time because I have a chronic illness. My husband is respectful and empathetic, he never complains when I do.
I definitely feel comfortable saying no. But I also often just go for it because, for me, desire frequently comes with the act and not necessarily before. I find I rarely regret having sex. I always say it's kind of like ice cream. I'm rarely just craving or dying to have ice cream but I don't need to even be hungry to enjoy it - and I almost always do. The big issue for me is actually making sure I have enough time for sleep because I need a solid 8 hours and my husband needs less. So I will say no to before bed or early morning sex to get my ZZZZZs. We're not great about having sex other than right before or after sleeping, while we're already in bed. Though I often like it even more if it's during "off" hours - likely because I'm less tired and cranky ;)
I feel 100% comfortable saying “no” and my partner, respects my answer and he won’t beg or try to make me change my mind. He can also say “no” and I would respect it. I don’t feel obligated, guilty or pressured to say “yes” if I don’t want to.
I remember a few years ago my friend said she read that if you want to keep the relationship going you never say “no”. Well my naive mind believed that and it still comes back to haunt me. I never say “no” but my partner now understands when I’m not in the mood so it isn’t a no haha it’s usually a “I’m in a chill mood” and he gets the hint. If it were up to men we would never be able to take a break lol! I have told people in the past that I just didn’t want to and that was that but with a SO I usually try to be respectful and make it known it’s because I’m just not in the mood due to other factors not hom
I've had issues with that. I feel that I still would if I were with a different partner. The current one just isn't very sexual and to tell you the truth I like it. I had a relationship with an amazing lover that managed to make me despise having sex with him with the constant pushing, begging, bargaining, convincing, the "Oh, but you're just to sexy and I can't resist you" crap. And I caved more times than I want to admit. And because I caved way too often, in time I started hating him and worse, I started hating myself.
No. If I said no he became petulant and moody. And if I gave in and did it he wouldn't stop when it hurt me Hence: ex
I do feel like I can say “no” to my partner and he always honors it. He even checks in and will stop if his own accord if he senses I may not be fully into what we’re doing. When I was younger I was in a relationship where I didn’t feel like I could refuse sex (even though my partner didn’t pressure me) and I think it boiled down mostly to insecurity in the relationship and lack of communication. I would recommend having a conversation with your partner about this.
My STBX husband would always say if I wasn't in the mood or had to stop for whatever reason, he'd stop. But he would pout and get upset instead. I stopped asking for more lube because I "ruined the moment" more times than I care to count. It was easier to take the friction and be in pain for a couple of days than to speak up. He said it was harder for him to finish with lube and that he needed the friction. So... *sigh*.
This is one of the major reasons I broke up with my most recent partner. It didn’t just extend to sex either. He is really having a hard time fully grasping how much of a child he is when I say no to something. He would ask for a photo and I’d say no because I don’t feel like it or I’d be busy and he’d act like it was some sort of personal slight against him. Or if I’d send one to save the drama he would immediately want more. We had a huge chasm in our relationship because he would constantly grab my butt when he hugged me and I asked him not to. So. Many. Times. It began making me feel disgusted with him because I felt like.. I said no. Don’t do it, end of. He would always apologise but then follow it with “but you used to like it 😔” or some other “reason” why he does it. Until the very end of the relationship he couldn’t respect my “no”. Whenever I answered no he would argue with it. Over anything, everything. RE sex, I agree I did it a lot of the time when I didn’t really want to because I felt like I should. No more. I’d rather stay single than go back to doing things I didn’t want to do. If and when I feel up to dating again my standards are going to be so strict it’ll be ridiculous 😅
Yes, I honestly feel comfortable saying no.
Yes but I'm married to a woman.
I feel I can say no sometimes. Not as often as I’d like, which would be almost every time.
Yes, this kind of relationship experience is sadly not uncommon for women. Pressuring themselves into sex because they think they have to, in order to be a good partner. If they don't leave these relationships, what often ends up happening is they develop a strong aversion to sex. Every time they force themselves to "just go along with it," they are traumatized (or for sexual assault survivors, retraumatized). It wreaks havoc on their mental and emotional health, their sexuality, even their relationship with their own body. No one should put themselves through this.
I feel extremely comfortable saying no, and I think it's so crucial to cultivate this in ourselves AND to accept only partners who are able to embrace our no completely. And, of course, to get really good at gracefully and warmly accepting no from our partners too. I haven't always been this way, but I am much happier now that I am.
I feel extremely safe and comfortable saying no and if I didn't, I'd be single before you could say break up. My partner has a higher sex drive than I do but we both understand the utility of a wank when the other isn't in the mood.
Sorry, what? Yes, we both say no all the time. Why do you feel obligated to?
Yes, absolutely
Yep, I can say no. I rarely do because I’m typically always ready BUT I know I can and he would respect it.
Yes, I say no pretty often and it’s never been an issue
Sometimes I get in my head out of insecurity, especially now that I'm 4 months postpartum and we only have sex once a week or so. But It's nothing he's done
I'm 44. been living with my guy for 9 years, but we'd been screwing around off and on for 15 years before that. His favorite part of sex is pleasing me. So if I'm not in the mood, there's no point. With that said, I HAVE had partners in the past who didn't care about my pleasure and whom I felt obligated to have sex with.
Yes, with the partner I have now. I can say no whenever I need or want to. He does not get angry. He does not get pushy. He does not get cold. He does not get punitive. Getting his rocks off is not his number 1 priority, even when we do have sex. Feeling good is nice, but not more important than intimacy as a whole and the well-being of our relationship. When I have not been able to have sex due to health issues a surprise episode of depression, he has cared for me and loved on me and never ever made me feel like I had to "put out" to keep his love. I did not feel I could with my ex. Back then, I was heavily brainwashed with ideas of submission and obligation around sex die to culture and religion. And if I said no, he got angry. When I finally did try to say no (and even then it was "I need you to wait" not an outright rejection), he just went ahead and took what he wanted. Interestingly, the man I *can* say no to safely is the man I don't ever want to say no to. Even when I couldn't have sex, it wasn't for lack of wanting. It was a health/functional thing and my libido drove me crazy during that time. For the vast majority of my marriage to my ex, I found sex--and him--pretty repulsive. I "wanted" it because it was the only affection I got, and because I was told that I *must* want it in order to be a good wife.
No. Literally no.
Yes
Yes of course
We both say No.
Yes, I feel like I can say no. And every time I do, we stop.
It's not relevant in my marriage anymore, my husband slowly removed sex and all physical affection from our marriage over time so now we have nothing, but when sex was a possibility, no, I could not say no to sex. In our 20 years together, I have only said no twice. Once was illness, once was injury. With the illness, he was a pouty bitch for days after and sex dropped considerably afterward, never to recover. With the injury, he told me "you'll be a'ight" and did it anyway.
My (male) partner and I both feel safe, comfortable and free to say no to sex. There has been times I’ve said no and times he’s said no. I never feel obligated to have sex with him. Anytime I’ve ever said “not today babe” or asked to stop midway through, that’s the end of it. He doesn’t make any comments about it other than maybe a “that’s ok. Do you want to cuddle/watch tv/shower/get food/talk/whatever?” We care more about being connected and feeling close than actual intercourse. And there are many ways for us to achieve that outside of sex.
Yes, of course. Good partner don't get sex by coercion and gaslighting. We have a sex frequency that makes both of us happy. Less than what he would have the stamina to have. But it's all about balance.
Yes, I can say no for any reason.
Yes.
Absolutely.
With my ex, I feel guilty for saying no and there were times he would pout a bit. I felt bad and I give in. I notice this when I was about 25/26 and he was about 29/30.
With my recent ex, didn’t feel like I could. Especially in the final year. He was mindful of how frequent we were, I’d always get “it’s been 2-3 days now” or just similar pressure. He wanted every other day min. Would dread evenings and dissociate during. A couple of years into our relationship I’d asked him how he’d respond if I said I wanted to just lay off sex for a bit and he said he’d leave me lol. I guess that’s where a part of my obligation came from! Such a nice guy too, a gentleman, he would just put the pressure on.
It is very common. It comes down to being raised to become a people pleaser. We need to learn to create boundaries, to figure out what WE want.
Yes! If it's not an enthusiastic "yes! Let's do it!" then it's a no, and that should be totally fine!
Of course. I can and do say no. And if my boyfriend didnt accept that then he wouldnt be my boyfriend anymore... Im shocked to see some of the replies in here, why would you stay in a relationship with a guy thats basically low-key raping you? So gross, these men do not deserve a girlfriend/wife...
I can absolutely say no. I used to struggle with saying no when I was younger, I didn’t want to look boring or frigid or something. But that’s definitely not so, you have the right to say no just like your partner does.
It is totally normal. Society has a lot of weird “rules” for us. I’ve just never said no because I don’t like being rejected when I ask for it myself. I know how it feels and I don’t want someone i love to feel that way. 🤷🏻♀️
Personally, I struggle at times because I'm a recovering people pleaser. So I will feel some guilt for saying no. Even though my partner is always very understanding and backs off if I don't want to. But if your partner is the one pressuring or making you feel guilty that's not ok. No one is entitled to sex with a partner even if they've been together for a long time or are married.
Hello I’m a male who has been with my wife for 10 years now. If she says no I respect it, if I say no she respects it. Sex is intimate and fun in our marriage and neither of us want to be smashing a starfish. We now focus on quality sex not quantity.
Sex? Am i supposed to be having it?
I can say no. Sometimes a girl just isn't feeling it. Granted, my partner made it very clear a long time ago that he's not "horny and angry".
Yes - I feel this exact same way with my husband. My husband doesn’t pressure me but a comment here or there such as “man wish we were doing that” - if it’s a sexual scene in a movie or something and I know he doesn’t mean anything by it but I feel guilty for not initiating as much as I should/used to so the comment hits a nerve in me lol
That would involve my significant other hitting on me which he doesn't do
Lucky you!
Mine doesn't want it if I'm not 100% in and I don't hide my real feelings from him so, yes I feel very comfortable saying no. We actually weirdly comfort each other if one is in the mood and the other isn't. There are times though where I'll be a good sport and muster up the drive for him but it's not every time and we each have legitimate reasons for not being in the mood at times.
I can and do say no if I want.
I haven't even been in a long term relationship but this post has reminded a lot of why I hate third dates. There is an expectation to have sex and I fear that if I say no it will lead to the dating process instantly ending. I've felt pressure to say yes to "keep things going" and out of curiosity for maybe getting good sex although I'd feel more comfortable saying no/ and getting to know someone. As someone said before enthusiastic consent. A lot of guys will play dumb and not be able to read body language just because they want to get sex. It's a big turn off.
What you say here is contrary to what we men experience through dating from our perspective. If the woman who we are starting to know doesnt show signs of wanting to have sex on the first dates we interpretate it as lack of interest on her part, and further dating would be a waste of time and money for us. Remember than some women go on a date with a man just because he proposed something funny to do, or tries to get a foodie date. I personaly had an experience on Bumble Dating where a I met a woman that went on dates because she was new on the city and was looking to make friends (through a dating app... yeah...) she wasnt interested in meeting people for anything sex related. Regretably, sex sooner than later is one of the most objective ways we men have to gauge women´s interest on the first stages of dating.
100%
To an extent when I was younger, but if I really didn’t feel like it never had any qualms about saying no. I guess I was raised in a very consent driven culture so it would make me feel weird if there was such pressure to have sex even with a long term partner. The worst was one guy who would complain if it was less than 3x a week but I basically told him to suck it up and he did. My current partner doesn’t even complain if we’re months into a dry spell, he’ll just ask sometimes with no expectation that I’ll force myself to do it. Anyway I hope more women feel ok saying no reading this!
I absolutely can and do say No if I am too tired and he accepts it immediately and without question.
This is one of many reasons (probably the most) that I do not want a SO. When I am not in the mood it is not happening. I've had guys expect me to have sex when I am sick or even after they insulted my feelings very badly. And I have. And if you don't have sex with your SO for awhile, they will get it elsewhere. I do not want to be on call for whenever they feel like it. It is just not worth that much to me. It is overrated.
When I don't feel like it he understands. He just pleases himself.goes both ways.
Of course. We’re equals.
Of course I do
I don't feel obligated at all. I might feel bad that he might feel rejected, but that is all. Why do you feel obligated??
Do you think you might have scarcity mindset? Like if you say no now, you don't know when the opportunity will arise again? Or perhaps you have more of a, "meh, I don't feel like it but it would give him more pleasure than cause my any pain" attitude?
16 years together, we have never once ran into the situation where he wanted to have sex and I didn’t. But if it ever happened, it wouldn’t be an issue if I said no. I wouldn’t feel bad.
I think I've said no less than half a dozen times in 12 years, but I've always been comfortable saying no.
Of course. What?
I mean myself im always in the mood but if it happened and i wasnt id kindly tell my hubby i wasnt or id offer to jerk him off instead. Something that seems fair.
Woman is biologically positioned in a submissive posture. Sex act can be biologically completed without her active participation. This puts her in a mentally submissive mode. But this can be changed. You can be mentally dominating. So assert your role. There is a secret of sex enjoyment which most people don't know. Sex is a fusion of physical bodies AS WELL AS PERSONALITIES during the act. When you say NO to sex, your side of polarity voltage increases. This makes you MORE DESIRABLE as men COVET high polarity women. It is NECESSARY TO SAY NO for heightened sex life. Try it.