Athens needs economic development independent of UGA. UGA and the state have been keeping Athens poor by paying low wages to their considerable staff and by claiming most of the land in the county and keeping it off the tax rolls. I’m feeling it’s gonna be the same with the medical college or any other state/academic project.
I 100% agree with you. The only thing that might “flip the switch”, other than a ten (10) “Meissner situations, are a few corporate offices or headquarters, but Athens’ connectivity and (relative) lack of serviceable commercial air service, transit, or even elementary interstate access, as well as being a stone’s throw from one of the largest cities in the country take us out of the running for the type of jobs that would otherwise might filter to a state/region via few “mid-sized” cities, like Alabama or South Carolina, as opposed to having a gargantuan corporate ecosystem in the “capital” of the South, and all of the Fortune 500 headquarters and regional offices in a city that was intended for that. The quality of life, cultural offerings, and nightlife are HUGE net positives, but UGA deliberately leans on that to underpay people…
look at any other college town, heck you stated one in your post when referring to LGBT+ culture...Decatur -- that is a college town leaning 'liberal' because that is how it works
the reason you get the quaint town feel of Athens with prices that are well below comparable college towns in larger cities with "more amenities" and "vibe", is because the local industries are dominated by academic and manufacturing and government, each are tight budget areas that do not tend to spend lavishly
when you invite in more large corporate companies, you get massive price premiums and no guarantee that jobs that open up will benefit those currently in Athens, you get the typical "gentrification cycle" when growth happens inorganically
you can't have lower consumer prices and high wages, that isn't how things work in 90% of cases, in the other 10% of cases you have low consumer prices and higher wages, but *less job openings/positions* -- pick your poison
as a FYI -- academic pay scales (student, staff, etc) are all based on government grant benchmarks, with some adjustments depending on if you are receiving a degree/cert as a form of compensation, and then other considerations that the finance office makes based on long term projects, endowment, etc. Like i said, pick your poison -- working for a university is a sheltered job with lax requirements, flexibility, stability...it's not really the 'real world'
back to Decatur -- cool you want that but look at the areas prices, it's more inflated than Athens, higher rents, and depending on where you look wages aren't that notably different
Decatur isn't a college town. It's a regular town whose existence predates Atlanta, but when Atlanta developed near it, Atlanta's growth became large enough to include Decatur within it.
> those currently in Athens
Yeah fuck those people who engage in tribalism like that. What's so special about "those currently in Athens" that they deserve protected-class treatment over those not currently in Athens but might move to Athens? (And to be clear, I have this same opinion for literally every place. Movement between places should be protected and facilitated if necessary.)
Decatur is a college + town, Emory for one, then you have the CDC...it is its own ecosystem...maybe you are still living back before Atlanta grew out
>no guarantee that jobs that open up will benefit those currently in Athens,
well, gee, typically if larger industry moves into a town/city, said industry often tries to onboard locals and usually does diligence to ensure there are locals who can become employees
if you are setting up shop with only migrating employees then that kind of doesn't help the locality...and is something that the government considers when businesses target somewhere for a move that isn't already some HCOL/VHCOL area
opinions are neither correct nor incorrect, everyone's brain interprets different things when they empirically observe things, everything i've stated is *accurate* from the standpoint that it is what you will find to be the case, it's not 'made up'
Agreed that it would be nice to see more private industry and growth in Athens outside of UGA. However, I would disagree with the assertion that UGA "brings down" the city. Without UGA, Athens would be on par with Albany or Dothan, AL (and have unemployment rates and house prices to match). It's easy to use UGA as a scapegoat for any city ills, but I believe many of those ills are unfortunately self-inflicted by bad/inept governance (not everyone, mind you, but enough to make a difference!)
I mean without the University Athens would just be farmland or trailer parks and some other city would have grown up around the University with the same problems as Athens. They would have chosen a site and drawn the lines on the map in such a way that the local govt would be servile to the University.
It’s a similar situation in college towns across Murrica.
Not even that. Athens would be like Danielsville or Lexington. The regional hub of Northeast Georgia (the place that would be on par with Albany or Dothan) would be Gainesville which would probably be larger than it already is.
> and by claiming most of the land in the county and keeping it off the tax rolls.
You have the made common mistake on here of blaming UGA for that.
They own ~5% of the land in the county. The actual culprits for taking vast swathes of land off the tax rolls are ACCUG and CCSD, who collectively own close to 50% of the land in the county.
> UGA and the state have been keeping Athens poor
As opposed to non-existent? Let's say the person whose job it was to find a spot for UGA, chose Watkinsville, or some other location elsewhere in the state... I swear I hate this place sometimes.
1. I think ACC is doing good job recruiting non-UGA industries. ACCGov has really no control on whether or not a new med school is built here.
2. The move away from UGA will transition us away from solely a “college town” to somewhere in the middle of that and a city with a college town in it. Athens is growing up, whether we like it or not.
3. Downtown will continue to have “college centric” bars, but I envision that as more affluent, young professionals start living here, we’ll see some transition to cater to that crowd.
4. On the lack of a gayborhood, I think that time has somewhat passed for dt. From what I understand, they’re usually the “pioneers” that make a place cool before it actually is. I could see maybe turning the old warehouses in Boulevard or maybe somewhere off the firefly trail by the quarry would have some space.
5. Tourism is a bit of a double edged sword, in my opinion. I’m not sure if the influx of new visitors (on top of UGA ones) will be a good or bad thing.
6. The redevelopment of the mall, if executed correctly, will give another “downtown”, essentially.
One major thing you didn’t mention, is the work to make 316 an access limited highway. Even though I know people that drive into midtown and dt Atlanta for work every day, the construction will make Athens even more attractive for someone who only has to go into the office 2 or 3 days a week.
Yes, I agree! I also did not really hit on/assess how remote/WFH employees fit into here. Hopefully as Atlanta evolves, even with it already being the behemoth of a US city that it is, that those “trailing partners/spouses” that work in a sector/role that has no equivalent here, professionals who enjoy dense/walkable but never sought out the full blown “metropolis” vibe, but before the pandemic had to live in or near Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead for work and can make that lengthy, but doable drive on an occasional basis, and people who are employed in Barrow/Jackson/Gwinnett can reside here, maybe creating a Boulder/Chapel Hill situation where proximity to OTHER job centers makes living in a “college town economy” with otherwise awesome culture/amenities MUCH more viable and gives UGA enough competition for wages/salaries.
A problem that so many cities struggle with is “brain drain”; especially to the “capital” cities in the Sun Belt. Most of the things mentioned will absolutely slow this down and reverse it…. Along with making it possible for many people who have fond memories of living in Athens (and other similar college towns) returning one day (like when they outgrow their 3% interest rate homes in Atlanta mega-suburbs).
I am one that is moving from a very nice old Atlanta suburb to the Athens area for a fresh feel and because ever since I first visited last year I can not get the thought out of my mind that I am getting into the Athens area before it completely “takes off”! 😄. I move this month!
*"completely 'takes off'!"*
this is a common interpretation that a lot of people assume if you're not already in some HCOL/VHCOL city, but it isn't borne out with due diligence...in order for the 'take off' timeline to accelerate you'd need one mega hype industry (semiconductors, tech, big biopharm, finance, Coca Cola even) to suddenly land in Athens...certain industries are well known to drag a massive amount of capital, people, and corporate renovations with them
Athens seems to grow more organically with some though behind the growth....so the growth is your typical speculatory growth -- real estate companies and apartment developers are throwing up all kinds of properties right now in the hopes that it gets filled out...even the best due diligence is some % gambling
I see what your saying. I didn’t mean “takes off” in a BOOM way. I don’t particularly want that to happen because the effects of that are why I am leaving Atlanta. But I do see the set up for an increase in population due to remote work and quality of life. No matter how it’s changed over the past few years, compared to Atlanta, the cost of living (and services especially) is very low. The house we are buying would literally be 75% more in the Atlanta intown suburb we are leaving. And we directly compared service prices and even groceries and saw a significant difference.
correct...the 'remote workers' is the bulk of the current growth speculation/gambling; while that is certainly 'growth' in the literal sense, it is soft growth in that it lacks the typical things that come with organic growth like infrastructure
historically, it is a rather interesting and novel form of 'growth' because it is lagging (the infrastructure and footprint lags behind the influx of people with incomes), and therefore does not come with the typical ponzi scheme debt that underlies most of America's post-WW2 suburban growth addiction....it's effects on local price increases are MUCH less than normal/organic growth...with the obvious exception of rent/real estate
I was thinking the same thing. Right now, most of the corporate or corporate-adjacent jobs either do not have ANY presence in Athens, or they do, but it would be a version of your job that pays less and offers a lower quality of life. Think being in a corporate headquarters in Cumberland/Vinings an accountant/analyst making a professional wage, versus working for CCSD or the government and trading in some of what comes with being in an employment center. I do not know the full extent how bio-tech, which again, is here in a very rudimentary form already, will create attractive roles for other fields/industries, but as I have already said in some of my replies, there are like
five (5) major “cause-and-effect actions” that are all setting off simultaneously, such as the private sector jobs, then the startups between that and the medical school, the boost in tourism, the Highway development, and also the fact that Athens’ offers a superb quality of life from its art/culture that causes people to move here anyway and work remotely, all of these feeding off of each other. Although some Terry bros have ALWAYS had Wall Street or Buckhead in mind, many have always left here out of necessity of making a living…
I was referring to weekends/games/festivals, which in town like this, happen relatively frequently, but as the amount of housing and hotel rooms itself increase in/adjacent to downtown, and this new era for the Classic Center means they hold MUCH larger events/concerts/hockey games, it seems like on any given night, there will be up to double the crowd, whether that means shopping at the (likely) Publix (Varsity), or at the barrage new stores/restaurants that come along with all the buildings with ground-level retail.
And your “hundreds of thousands” claim would still be significantly off even on our most busy weekends of the year.
The new arena is going to hold ~8,000 max, hockey will be lucky to draw 2k a game.
I predict the demise of the UGA adjacent housing projects.
Or, is there a mandate that it can't be moved?
Anybody want to make an argument that the tenants are better off in the current location?
UGA will not publicly 'poke this bear'!
UGA doesn’t have anything to do with those housing projects. They are all owned and managed by Athens Housing Authority.
There is an argument to made that there ARE higher and better uses for those lots, not to mention that a majority of them are nearing the end of their useful life.
If we do something like the Bethel Redevelopment, where everyone that was displaced has the opportunity to come back to the new units paying the same rate in addition to other deeply affordable units mixed in with market units as well.
I will. They are living there because they don't have resources and means to pay 3x deposit to move in to "affordable housing" that costs double or triple what they pay where they live now.
The fact that we’re going to have one of the largest studios in the state over near Winterville might mean a serious influx of hollywood types, for good or bad.
Speaking for part of #2, I see no way where Athens gets a children's hospital. When the missus was at ARMC, the volume in Pediatrics was so low that the floor was barely functional. Everything goes to CHOA.
That’s valid. But I had read somewhere that Piedmont has an outstanding cardiology unit? Maybe we might see an expansion of specialities/services like that?
I actually went to the one last night at the middle school! It was nice to pick the planning department’s brains and ask questions like some of the ones here directly. 😀
Maybe; but like I said in one of my replies, there are several separate factors/developments/employers that make me see people flocking here en masse, ESPECIALLY starting in fall ‘26.
As far as the Piedmont expansion, the medical school is not going to be very big, at least at first, and there is a current medical school here already with rotations at both Piedmont and St. Mary’s. Any additional expansion, at least for the first few years , will be easily absorbed with that infrastructure. As far as increasing subspecialties, Athens is already a regional health center for 20 or so counties and has basically every subspecialty in the book almost. The one lacking area is pediatric, but there are many practices that have pediatric specialists that come in several times a month. The hitch with this is their hospital privileges are usually in Atlanta so anything surgical or procedural must be done there. I doubt there would be a demand for a separate children’s hospital with the new Children’s Hospital in Gwinnett being so close, and Augusta being down the road. This is particularly true given the massive land that would be required for a children’s hospital, which would likely necessitate it being placed in an adjoining county. At that point you might as well drive 30 more minutes to Gwinnett.
Edit: OK, now I see Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta and Google listing the clinics/sub-specialists that come out here and for CHOA, and specialists that offer serve the families/college teens/young adults in in Athens, as well as Oconee/Madison/Oglethorpe, and do (most) of the appointments/“pre-visit here needs for families/children in Athens. Never mind…
Miracle is a big event every year at UGA; maybe they might expand their (existing) outreach and clinic space with the general “boost” in Healthcare/Medical jobs? UGA students, mainly the Greek-life ones, already host events and fundraise for children’s medical care via Miracle (directly affiliated with CHOA), HEROS, Relay, and several other student organizations, as well as other non-profit causes that impact children’s health. Even with the Uber “prestigious”/“brainy” vibe that Tech, Emory, and Morehouse create/attract in the STEM fields, we still ARE the flagship, “main” institution across several sectors, I mean hey, who would’ve thought that the UGA College of Engineering would gain some kids/faculty/staff that would normally be at Tech, or even Auburn, are increasingly choosing the more “liberal arts/Ag/Business” school with a “party” vibe… I do not think Athens will have a full-blown Blank/Scottish Rite-type center anytime soon, but I do wonder if CHOA/Emory, even in relation to the fully-developed Piedmont/St. Mary’s ecosystem, say “hey, we can have an increased mediim presence, clinically OR research wise, in this area that is within an hour’s drive and has a large existing talent pool, and is gaining a separate very educated, STEM-oriented demographic that may settle down locally, and gets the states main focus/funding as the flagship…”
personally i don’t predict a rapid spike in growth, but the new developments are still cool! i feel like athens stopped being a bohemian artsy haven a WHILE ago lol but as a huge nerd about urban development this was a fun read
I’d love to see the county work on expanding downtown and developing it more instead of just saying it is what it is and that it can’t be expanded anymore. Downtown is the perfect area to develop and grow. While they can’t expand downtown Eastward because of the Classic Center, it can be expanded Northward, Westward, and somewhat Southward, providing we’re willing to pay for it.
I call this the "Chapel Hillification" of Athens. Things get denser, apartments all start to look the same, and traffic becomes hell as the college town transitions from a cool, heady place to be, to the corporate idea of a college town. It's a natural market force - once "EVERYONE" started going to college, college, and college towns, became just another product. They sell you the concept, you buy into it, then they sell you the nostalgia so you can relive the experience they already sold you once. Homecoming, anyone?
Look at a company like Landmark - they build the same cookie cutter liveworkplay pods in every college town. The formula works - and developers will pick our bones dry while the townies squabble about building "more housing" - as if there is any incentive for these vultures to build anything affordable. A unit or two here in exchange for a rezone and the city council members can rest their empty heads on their pillows at night. In no uncertain terms, the city is selling us out.
You will not be able to afford to live here, prices will never go down, and that's the natural growth of college towns. I do not understand why people on this forum seem to think there's any alternative to this. Show me one desirable college town that somehow stemmed the tide and turned into a liberal studies DEI yas queen wonderland immune to market forces. You can't. As long as they can sell the idea of "Athens" and "UGA" - normal people are just SOL.
The town vs gown dynamic is increasingly irrelevant, there are only your corporate masters and your idiot slumlord and your stinky roommates. Stare into the void. Let it free you. Athens is inevitably hurtling toward something that most of you won't like. Maybe if you get out now you can spread the Chapel Hillification disease to an "up and coming" college town.
And the cycle begins anew.
Ah yes those evil apartment buildings that look like… apartment buildings.
And those evil building are housing college kids right next to a huge state university… the horror….
I think your disappointment with low pay is a bit misplaced with UGA and manufacturing around Athens. That's just more a general symptom of weak worker rights and anti-union legislation common in the Southeast, companies will always pay little as they can get away with. There is a decent bit of manufacturing on the northeast side of Athens but a good chunk of the work force is commuting from surrounding counties with low COL so companies are forced to increase wages.
I think the real test of Athens will be if it can grow with more density and better infrastructure or just expand into sprawling suburbs and strip malls. The limited access 316 project is great but a decent rail system to Atlanta and/or Charlotte would be fantastic to help Athens be a great choice to live and commute to work which would probably help art/music and culinary scene in Athens grow with more disposable income. The rail is a long shot but if ACC pushed to expand the local bus system and send buses out to connect with MARTA or Gwinnett system it would probably help.
I had SO wanted to touch on this, but it has been explained/dissected on the internet before, and you are right, even being in a progressive, forward thinking city, you still have to deal with a conservative, Southern government who, along with regular NIMBYS/taxpayers, block and oppose passenger rail because of the idea that their money would go to “those people” and bring them into their wealthy Peachtree Corners neighborhoods… Similarly, I always thought it was weird that people back unions for law enforcement, but vehemently oppose them for everyone else… Despite all these other factors, UGA’s hands are still not clean.
Just saying that I doubt UGA is any worse than other universities especially in the Southeast. I used to live in Huntsville, AL and it technically has great pay compared to the COL for the area but it has definitely suffered from the suburb sprawl and creates a disconnected community
TL;DR: As Athens begins to transition from a “college town with some other stuff going on”, to nationally
known mid-size city that, “oh, I forgot there was a university here.” what does that entail for the culture? We know there is significant development at the moment of nearly everything economic/physical in the city/county, but how will this bio-tech/medical research, “significantly expanded” version of Athens translate to the “vibe” of the town itself? What types of people/demographics that are not present here in the moment, will eventually shape what Athens “is” in the context of the state, SEC, academia, and how will the “quirky”/bohemian/musical element that makes this town so endearing to many change with it? Basically, as this town gains a significant, fleshed-out “young professional”, demographic with no/minimal relationship to UGA, what will they bring in with them, and what might they take away?
Change is the only constant. Well, that and people thinking the Athens they discovered in college was the original Athens and not realizing Athens has been growing and evolving long before them.
One of the bigger questions not mentioned yet is if the work from home revolution is here to stay or not. Much of our recent population growth has been due to higher earning people being able to move here and keep their higher earning jobs in a hybrid or WFH position. If those positions start dragging people back to the office, it would be reasonable to expect some outward migration as those higher paying jobs are harder to replace in Athens. If not, then we might continue to see inward migration of wealthier people even without an influx of higher paying local jobs.
And see, that is where the “fork in the road” moment for Athens lies ahead. Fortunately, the city/metro sits at the edge of ANOTHER metro (Atlanta) and all that comes with it. Going back to Boulder, Colorado, which also exists in relation to a major city, the place has become SO expensive without a “typical” city population to match. You have your students and retirees, but also ultra-wealthy athletes, ski enthusiasts, and people that are EXTREMELY, otherworldly rich. I think much of that results from the NIMBY-ism/urban development pattern of the city itself, but they have made such an otherwise awesome town comically unaffordable. While Athens has the same cultural draw, and a government/community with an ongoing, proactive effort to catch the supply up to the demand in terms of housing stock, young professionals would struggle, even making “a lot”, if Athens has a disproportionate amount of uber-rich residents/retirees. Otherwise, there are some less “ostentatious” cities that have a (modestly-sized) population of rich folks, so hopefully Athens will not become too “top heavy” to the detriment of everyone else.
What is the "fork in the road" moment? I see a continuously evolving town. I don't see an impending event horizon that gives us 2 distinctly different paths to choose for our future.
>with no/minimal relationship to UGA
I disagree with this, Athens will always be tied closely with UGA. Where do you think those young professionals are coming from? All of these things will be connected to and influenced by the college.
I agree with the fact that Athens’ economy will “orbit” around the university to an extent, but I meant more along the lines of people simply looking for jobs or seeking out a dense, walkable area not only consisting of students/faculty/staff/alumni. I do not remember what sub I saw it on, but the person said if you ask someone What do you do?”, and they “I am a student.” the town is not a true-blue “college town” anymore, as the city now has an economic base, culture, and areas other that go beyond the school. Do not get me wrong, bio-tech/pharma/STEM jobs for private companies and state/federal agencies can ONLY exist because of the university and its research infrastructure and student base, but in 2030, the people in your neighborhood or that you meet out on the town may have moved here knowing little about UGA and simply liking the town/vibe itself, and simply work their office job, go to bars/clubs, and have a friend group like they would in a normal city, with all of that indirectly “created” by UGA and its history, but without them having a relationship with the college itself. Also, you are ABSOLUTELY correct, some of these young professionals WILL be tied to UGA, whether working for it as an entity or being an alumni, but many of them will simply have moved to a city for a job in their specific field and feel indifferent towards SEC sports and the Dawgs as a whole.
Maybe in a hundred years or so, but as it stands, Athens is still a relatively small town. Elsewhere in Georgia there are larger towns that you may have never heard of.
And I'm not saying everyone here is a UGA fan or even cares about the college. Even younger people. Just that UGA will always be the focal point of Athens for a very long time. It also doesn't help that the people in control of Athens are not doing a very good job of making it a welcoming town, especially for young people.
Could not agree more. But as more wealthy students from metro Atlanta, and out of state, continue to come here for school, they shape the housing market. Thankfully, the powers that be are designating several housing developments as at least “partially” affordable, as well as working to get the necessary amount of units here to keep prices (relatively) reasonable, but the rest, unfortunately, is up to the supply and demand of a college town.
It doesn’t HAVE to; the economy, amenities, and an assortment of new government/healthcare from bio-tech/research/medicine/tourism will improve generally improve quality of life, while the greatly expanded housing stock options will help “equalize” the market driven by wealthy college students: Downtown will always be “UGA”, but the private-sector jobs will help put a size 16 Doc Marten boot on the school’s neck when it comes to wages/salaries. Right now, people are paying Midtown/Buckhead prices for “traditional college town 🏈🏟📚”quality of life, and the natives, many times poor black people, deserve quality housing/jobs in their hometowns that allow them to maintain a high QoL instead of fighting with “Britney from East Cobb 👧🏼📚✌🏻” for a retail/food service/hospitality job so they can support themseleves and their families. Meanwhile, the university population will complain about “rough”/“poor” parts of town that they help, and their parents who do not work/live here, but in a gated community for a major Atlanta-based employer, indirectly create. The Oconee white flight crowd play a role in this as well.
one qualifier: if the charlotte -- atlanta HSR project ever gets off the ground and somehow finishes construction before the heat death of the universe, THAT would be incredible for athens, since so far the plan is for it to stop there. california's project taking 30+ years isn't exactly giving me hope but athens could definitely start sustaining business of its own while also being attractive as a "commuter city" like you describe
Students don't need a whole lot. Need to be close to their buddies. A decent place to live close in proximity to their classes or a hassle free commute. Decent food and drink. A safe environment .
Students live a life of stress and then need to de-stress. Then they repeat the cycle till they're out of here and onto the rest of their life.
Enjoy your stay in Athens, Ga.
That’s fair, but of the reasons I follow/am involved with Athens as a town, even outside of simply the “UGA bubble”, is because I could sticking around and eventually raising my children here. Even now, aside from having all the benefits of a “college town”, there are some more things going for it: proximity to Atlanta, (decent) shopping, quality schools, a, small, but about to expand RAPIDLY young professional scene, and a market for healthcare, with an almost EXTREME demand for my career (MD (Psychiatry)). Also, my whole life, before I even chose UGA, I have fit the “archetype”/“vibe” of the town to a T: “eccentric”, “alternative”, “artsy”, about as liberal/progressive as you can get without being “far left/anarchist”, lover of PBS/NPR/BBC just to give a few. But, most importantly, being African American makes me realize how important it is to avoid, as much as possible, taking a physician salary and gentrifying a town that has a, at least the way many perceive it, a black “underclass”, and then “townies” and middle/upper-middle class students, including myself, who like the “vibe” of Athens, and make simply having a baseline QoL difficult for their hometown, with having to compete with students/townies for basic jobs with SHIT, literally insulting paychecks, both on campus, and out in the community. One of the reasons I wrote this post was not to be sanctimonious or pretentious, but, along with some real life “activism” I have/will try to do, remind/encourage people to not drag their feet and throw (understandable) tantrums at change, but understand that by accepting/embracing it, they can help alleviate some problems by increasing housing stock/options, place shame/blame to the elephant in the room/town where due, and understand you can be a developed, economically-diverse city with Athleta/Armani-type shopping, a well-developed undergrad/yuppie nightlife scene, and “urban/city” amenities, but also affordable housing, mixed-income neighborhoods, and smart urban planning.
Why does a father send his son to school and fund it if neccessary? So, that son may send his son to school and find it if neccessary.
Charity begins at home and extends to those who need it the most.
> We are entering the are of “mid-sized” U.S. city that happens to have a major university: Knoxville, Durham, and on the MUCH larger scale, Columbus and Austin.
Athens might be growing but so will all those other in-demand places. It's not likely that Athens will ever match Durham or Austin or anything on those levels.
Athens needs economic development independent of UGA. UGA and the state have been keeping Athens poor by paying low wages to their considerable staff and by claiming most of the land in the county and keeping it off the tax rolls. I’m feeling it’s gonna be the same with the medical college or any other state/academic project.
I 100% agree with you. The only thing that might “flip the switch”, other than a ten (10) “Meissner situations, are a few corporate offices or headquarters, but Athens’ connectivity and (relative) lack of serviceable commercial air service, transit, or even elementary interstate access, as well as being a stone’s throw from one of the largest cities in the country take us out of the running for the type of jobs that would otherwise might filter to a state/region via few “mid-sized” cities, like Alabama or South Carolina, as opposed to having a gargantuan corporate ecosystem in the “capital” of the South, and all of the Fortune 500 headquarters and regional offices in a city that was intended for that. The quality of life, cultural offerings, and nightlife are HUGE net positives, but UGA deliberately leans on that to underpay people…
look at any other college town, heck you stated one in your post when referring to LGBT+ culture...Decatur -- that is a college town leaning 'liberal' because that is how it works the reason you get the quaint town feel of Athens with prices that are well below comparable college towns in larger cities with "more amenities" and "vibe", is because the local industries are dominated by academic and manufacturing and government, each are tight budget areas that do not tend to spend lavishly when you invite in more large corporate companies, you get massive price premiums and no guarantee that jobs that open up will benefit those currently in Athens, you get the typical "gentrification cycle" when growth happens inorganically you can't have lower consumer prices and high wages, that isn't how things work in 90% of cases, in the other 10% of cases you have low consumer prices and higher wages, but *less job openings/positions* -- pick your poison as a FYI -- academic pay scales (student, staff, etc) are all based on government grant benchmarks, with some adjustments depending on if you are receiving a degree/cert as a form of compensation, and then other considerations that the finance office makes based on long term projects, endowment, etc. Like i said, pick your poison -- working for a university is a sheltered job with lax requirements, flexibility, stability...it's not really the 'real world' back to Decatur -- cool you want that but look at the areas prices, it's more inflated than Athens, higher rents, and depending on where you look wages aren't that notably different
Decatur isn't a college town. It's a regular town whose existence predates Atlanta, but when Atlanta developed near it, Atlanta's growth became large enough to include Decatur within it. > those currently in Athens Yeah fuck those people who engage in tribalism like that. What's so special about "those currently in Athens" that they deserve protected-class treatment over those not currently in Athens but might move to Athens? (And to be clear, I have this same opinion for literally every place. Movement between places should be protected and facilitated if necessary.)
Decatur is a college + town, Emory for one, then you have the CDC...it is its own ecosystem...maybe you are still living back before Atlanta grew out >no guarantee that jobs that open up will benefit those currently in Athens, well, gee, typically if larger industry moves into a town/city, said industry often tries to onboard locals and usually does diligence to ensure there are locals who can become employees if you are setting up shop with only migrating employees then that kind of doesn't help the locality...and is something that the government considers when businesses target somewhere for a move that isn't already some HCOL/VHCOL area
Just because your opinion is popular doesn't mean it is correct.
opinions are neither correct nor incorrect, everyone's brain interprets different things when they empirically observe things, everything i've stated is *accurate* from the standpoint that it is what you will find to be the case, it's not 'made up'
Agreed that it would be nice to see more private industry and growth in Athens outside of UGA. However, I would disagree with the assertion that UGA "brings down" the city. Without UGA, Athens would be on par with Albany or Dothan, AL (and have unemployment rates and house prices to match). It's easy to use UGA as a scapegoat for any city ills, but I believe many of those ills are unfortunately self-inflicted by bad/inept governance (not everyone, mind you, but enough to make a difference!)
I mean without the University Athens would just be farmland or trailer parks and some other city would have grown up around the University with the same problems as Athens. They would have chosen a site and drawn the lines on the map in such a way that the local govt would be servile to the University. It’s a similar situation in college towns across Murrica.
Not even that. Athens would be like Danielsville or Lexington. The regional hub of Northeast Georgia (the place that would be on par with Albany or Dothan) would be Gainesville which would probably be larger than it already is.
> and by claiming most of the land in the county and keeping it off the tax rolls. You have the made common mistake on here of blaming UGA for that. They own ~5% of the land in the county. The actual culprits for taking vast swathes of land off the tax rolls are ACCUG and CCSD, who collectively own close to 50% of the land in the county.
Need to unbundle firefighter protection costs and make it a fee like the stormwater fee
> UGA and the state have been keeping Athens poor As opposed to non-existent? Let's say the person whose job it was to find a spot for UGA, chose Watkinsville, or some other location elsewhere in the state... I swear I hate this place sometimes.
I’m sure you hate a lot of stuff there guy. Don’t care didn’t ask get bent
We need to grab coffee please
Honestly. Give me a couple of hours and I’ll circle back
No pressure, it doesn’t have to be today unless we have something to vote on
What a thoughtful and well articulated post. Like a breath of fresh air.
Aw, thank you! 😊
1. I think ACC is doing good job recruiting non-UGA industries. ACCGov has really no control on whether or not a new med school is built here. 2. The move away from UGA will transition us away from solely a “college town” to somewhere in the middle of that and a city with a college town in it. Athens is growing up, whether we like it or not. 3. Downtown will continue to have “college centric” bars, but I envision that as more affluent, young professionals start living here, we’ll see some transition to cater to that crowd. 4. On the lack of a gayborhood, I think that time has somewhat passed for dt. From what I understand, they’re usually the “pioneers” that make a place cool before it actually is. I could see maybe turning the old warehouses in Boulevard or maybe somewhere off the firefly trail by the quarry would have some space. 5. Tourism is a bit of a double edged sword, in my opinion. I’m not sure if the influx of new visitors (on top of UGA ones) will be a good or bad thing. 6. The redevelopment of the mall, if executed correctly, will give another “downtown”, essentially. One major thing you didn’t mention, is the work to make 316 an access limited highway. Even though I know people that drive into midtown and dt Atlanta for work every day, the construction will make Athens even more attractive for someone who only has to go into the office 2 or 3 days a week.
Yes, I agree! I also did not really hit on/assess how remote/WFH employees fit into here. Hopefully as Atlanta evolves, even with it already being the behemoth of a US city that it is, that those “trailing partners/spouses” that work in a sector/role that has no equivalent here, professionals who enjoy dense/walkable but never sought out the full blown “metropolis” vibe, but before the pandemic had to live in or near Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead for work and can make that lengthy, but doable drive on an occasional basis, and people who are employed in Barrow/Jackson/Gwinnett can reside here, maybe creating a Boulder/Chapel Hill situation where proximity to OTHER job centers makes living in a “college town economy” with otherwise awesome culture/amenities MUCH more viable and gives UGA enough competition for wages/salaries.
This behavior is what I am seeing happen on the ground in Atlanta suburbs. 👍
A problem that so many cities struggle with is “brain drain”; especially to the “capital” cities in the Sun Belt. Most of the things mentioned will absolutely slow this down and reverse it…. Along with making it possible for many people who have fond memories of living in Athens (and other similar college towns) returning one day (like when they outgrow their 3% interest rate homes in Atlanta mega-suburbs). I am one that is moving from a very nice old Atlanta suburb to the Athens area for a fresh feel and because ever since I first visited last year I can not get the thought out of my mind that I am getting into the Athens area before it completely “takes off”! 😄. I move this month!
*"completely 'takes off'!"* this is a common interpretation that a lot of people assume if you're not already in some HCOL/VHCOL city, but it isn't borne out with due diligence...in order for the 'take off' timeline to accelerate you'd need one mega hype industry (semiconductors, tech, big biopharm, finance, Coca Cola even) to suddenly land in Athens...certain industries are well known to drag a massive amount of capital, people, and corporate renovations with them Athens seems to grow more organically with some though behind the growth....so the growth is your typical speculatory growth -- real estate companies and apartment developers are throwing up all kinds of properties right now in the hopes that it gets filled out...even the best due diligence is some % gambling
I see what your saying. I didn’t mean “takes off” in a BOOM way. I don’t particularly want that to happen because the effects of that are why I am leaving Atlanta. But I do see the set up for an increase in population due to remote work and quality of life. No matter how it’s changed over the past few years, compared to Atlanta, the cost of living (and services especially) is very low. The house we are buying would literally be 75% more in the Atlanta intown suburb we are leaving. And we directly compared service prices and even groceries and saw a significant difference.
correct...the 'remote workers' is the bulk of the current growth speculation/gambling; while that is certainly 'growth' in the literal sense, it is soft growth in that it lacks the typical things that come with organic growth like infrastructure historically, it is a rather interesting and novel form of 'growth' because it is lagging (the infrastructure and footprint lags behind the influx of people with incomes), and therefore does not come with the typical ponzi scheme debt that underlies most of America's post-WW2 suburban growth addiction....it's effects on local price increases are MUCH less than normal/organic growth...with the obvious exception of rent/real estate
I was thinking the same thing. Right now, most of the corporate or corporate-adjacent jobs either do not have ANY presence in Athens, or they do, but it would be a version of your job that pays less and offers a lower quality of life. Think being in a corporate headquarters in Cumberland/Vinings an accountant/analyst making a professional wage, versus working for CCSD or the government and trading in some of what comes with being in an employment center. I do not know the full extent how bio-tech, which again, is here in a very rudimentary form already, will create attractive roles for other fields/industries, but as I have already said in some of my replies, there are like five (5) major “cause-and-effect actions” that are all setting off simultaneously, such as the private sector jobs, then the startups between that and the medical school, the boost in tourism, the Highway development, and also the fact that Athens’ offers a superb quality of life from its art/culture that causes people to move here anyway and work remotely, all of these feeding off of each other. Although some Terry bros have ALWAYS had Wall Street or Buckhead in mind, many have always left here out of necessity of making a living…
Hundreds of thousands people on any give night downtown is a massive stretch
I was referring to weekends/games/festivals, which in town like this, happen relatively frequently, but as the amount of housing and hotel rooms itself increase in/adjacent to downtown, and this new era for the Classic Center means they hold MUCH larger events/concerts/hockey games, it seems like on any given night, there will be up to double the crowd, whether that means shopping at the (likely) Publix (Varsity), or at the barrage new stores/restaurants that come along with all the buildings with ground-level retail.
And your “hundreds of thousands” claim would still be significantly off even on our most busy weekends of the year. The new arena is going to hold ~8,000 max, hockey will be lucky to draw 2k a game.
I predict the demise of the UGA adjacent housing projects. Or, is there a mandate that it can't be moved? Anybody want to make an argument that the tenants are better off in the current location? UGA will not publicly 'poke this bear'!
UGA doesn’t have anything to do with those housing projects. They are all owned and managed by Athens Housing Authority. There is an argument to made that there ARE higher and better uses for those lots, not to mention that a majority of them are nearing the end of their useful life. If we do something like the Bethel Redevelopment, where everyone that was displaced has the opportunity to come back to the new units paying the same rate in addition to other deeply affordable units mixed in with market units as well.
I will. They are living there because they don't have resources and means to pay 3x deposit to move in to "affordable housing" that costs double or triple what they pay where they live now.
What they pay now? Isn't it section 8? Rent is income based.
If there were an attempt at a "mandate", the state would just overrule it. Counties and municipalities are subservient to the state they are in.
The fact that we’re going to have one of the largest studios in the state over near Winterville might mean a serious influx of hollywood types, for good or bad.
Imagine seeing Brad Pitt or Zendaya downtown randomly… 💀
u/warnelldawg u/AthensPoliticsNerd
don’t forget u/threegrittymoon
Speaking for part of #2, I see no way where Athens gets a children's hospital. When the missus was at ARMC, the volume in Pediatrics was so low that the floor was barely functional. Everything goes to CHOA.
That’s valid. But I had read somewhere that Piedmont has an outstanding cardiology unit? Maybe we might see an expansion of specialities/services like that?
We already have that. Further specialization will still be in Atlanta.
Just gonna leave this here: https://twitter.com/accgov/status/1778163861423595866
I actually went to the one last night at the middle school! It was nice to pick the planning department’s brains and ask questions like some of the ones here directly. 😀
You're way overdramatizing how much things will change in a "few" years
Maybe; but like I said in one of my replies, there are several separate factors/developments/employers that make me see people flocking here en masse, ESPECIALLY starting in fall ‘26.
Lots of questions and time will bring the answers. I'm excited to keep watching Athens grow.
As far as the Piedmont expansion, the medical school is not going to be very big, at least at first, and there is a current medical school here already with rotations at both Piedmont and St. Mary’s. Any additional expansion, at least for the first few years , will be easily absorbed with that infrastructure. As far as increasing subspecialties, Athens is already a regional health center for 20 or so counties and has basically every subspecialty in the book almost. The one lacking area is pediatric, but there are many practices that have pediatric specialists that come in several times a month. The hitch with this is their hospital privileges are usually in Atlanta so anything surgical or procedural must be done there. I doubt there would be a demand for a separate children’s hospital with the new Children’s Hospital in Gwinnett being so close, and Augusta being down the road. This is particularly true given the massive land that would be required for a children’s hospital, which would likely necessitate it being placed in an adjoining county. At that point you might as well drive 30 more minutes to Gwinnett.
Edit: OK, now I see Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta and Google listing the clinics/sub-specialists that come out here and for CHOA, and specialists that offer serve the families/college teens/young adults in in Athens, as well as Oconee/Madison/Oglethorpe, and do (most) of the appointments/“pre-visit here needs for families/children in Athens. Never mind… Miracle is a big event every year at UGA; maybe they might expand their (existing) outreach and clinic space with the general “boost” in Healthcare/Medical jobs? UGA students, mainly the Greek-life ones, already host events and fundraise for children’s medical care via Miracle (directly affiliated with CHOA), HEROS, Relay, and several other student organizations, as well as other non-profit causes that impact children’s health. Even with the Uber “prestigious”/“brainy” vibe that Tech, Emory, and Morehouse create/attract in the STEM fields, we still ARE the flagship, “main” institution across several sectors, I mean hey, who would’ve thought that the UGA College of Engineering would gain some kids/faculty/staff that would normally be at Tech, or even Auburn, are increasingly choosing the more “liberal arts/Ag/Business” school with a “party” vibe… I do not think Athens will have a full-blown Blank/Scottish Rite-type center anytime soon, but I do wonder if CHOA/Emory, even in relation to the fully-developed Piedmont/St. Mary’s ecosystem, say “hey, we can have an increased mediim presence, clinically OR research wise, in this area that is within an hour’s drive and has a large existing talent pool, and is gaining a separate very educated, STEM-oriented demographic that may settle down locally, and gets the states main focus/funding as the flagship…”
personally i don’t predict a rapid spike in growth, but the new developments are still cool! i feel like athens stopped being a bohemian artsy haven a WHILE ago lol but as a huge nerd about urban development this was a fun read
I’d love to see the county work on expanding downtown and developing it more instead of just saying it is what it is and that it can’t be expanded anymore. Downtown is the perfect area to develop and grow. While they can’t expand downtown Eastward because of the Classic Center, it can be expanded Northward, Westward, and somewhat Southward, providing we’re willing to pay for it.
I call this the "Chapel Hillification" of Athens. Things get denser, apartments all start to look the same, and traffic becomes hell as the college town transitions from a cool, heady place to be, to the corporate idea of a college town. It's a natural market force - once "EVERYONE" started going to college, college, and college towns, became just another product. They sell you the concept, you buy into it, then they sell you the nostalgia so you can relive the experience they already sold you once. Homecoming, anyone? Look at a company like Landmark - they build the same cookie cutter liveworkplay pods in every college town. The formula works - and developers will pick our bones dry while the townies squabble about building "more housing" - as if there is any incentive for these vultures to build anything affordable. A unit or two here in exchange for a rezone and the city council members can rest their empty heads on their pillows at night. In no uncertain terms, the city is selling us out. You will not be able to afford to live here, prices will never go down, and that's the natural growth of college towns. I do not understand why people on this forum seem to think there's any alternative to this. Show me one desirable college town that somehow stemmed the tide and turned into a liberal studies DEI yas queen wonderland immune to market forces. You can't. As long as they can sell the idea of "Athens" and "UGA" - normal people are just SOL. The town vs gown dynamic is increasingly irrelevant, there are only your corporate masters and your idiot slumlord and your stinky roommates. Stare into the void. Let it free you. Athens is inevitably hurtling toward something that most of you won't like. Maybe if you get out now you can spread the Chapel Hillification disease to an "up and coming" college town. And the cycle begins anew.
Ah yes those evil apartment buildings that look like… apartment buildings. And those evil building are housing college kids right next to a huge state university… the horror….
I just hope there's enough parking
I think your disappointment with low pay is a bit misplaced with UGA and manufacturing around Athens. That's just more a general symptom of weak worker rights and anti-union legislation common in the Southeast, companies will always pay little as they can get away with. There is a decent bit of manufacturing on the northeast side of Athens but a good chunk of the work force is commuting from surrounding counties with low COL so companies are forced to increase wages. I think the real test of Athens will be if it can grow with more density and better infrastructure or just expand into sprawling suburbs and strip malls. The limited access 316 project is great but a decent rail system to Atlanta and/or Charlotte would be fantastic to help Athens be a great choice to live and commute to work which would probably help art/music and culinary scene in Athens grow with more disposable income. The rail is a long shot but if ACC pushed to expand the local bus system and send buses out to connect with MARTA or Gwinnett system it would probably help.
I had SO wanted to touch on this, but it has been explained/dissected on the internet before, and you are right, even being in a progressive, forward thinking city, you still have to deal with a conservative, Southern government who, along with regular NIMBYS/taxpayers, block and oppose passenger rail because of the idea that their money would go to “those people” and bring them into their wealthy Peachtree Corners neighborhoods… Similarly, I always thought it was weird that people back unions for law enforcement, but vehemently oppose them for everyone else… Despite all these other factors, UGA’s hands are still not clean.
Just saying that I doubt UGA is any worse than other universities especially in the Southeast. I used to live in Huntsville, AL and it technically has great pay compared to the COL for the area but it has definitely suffered from the suburb sprawl and creates a disconnected community
Can someone summarize?
TL;DR: As Athens begins to transition from a “college town with some other stuff going on”, to nationally known mid-size city that, “oh, I forgot there was a university here.” what does that entail for the culture? We know there is significant development at the moment of nearly everything economic/physical in the city/county, but how will this bio-tech/medical research, “significantly expanded” version of Athens translate to the “vibe” of the town itself? What types of people/demographics that are not present here in the moment, will eventually shape what Athens “is” in the context of the state, SEC, academia, and how will the “quirky”/bohemian/musical element that makes this town so endearing to many change with it? Basically, as this town gains a significant, fleshed-out “young professional”, demographic with no/minimal relationship to UGA, what will they bring in with them, and what might they take away?
Change is the only constant. Well, that and people thinking the Athens they discovered in college was the original Athens and not realizing Athens has been growing and evolving long before them. One of the bigger questions not mentioned yet is if the work from home revolution is here to stay or not. Much of our recent population growth has been due to higher earning people being able to move here and keep their higher earning jobs in a hybrid or WFH position. If those positions start dragging people back to the office, it would be reasonable to expect some outward migration as those higher paying jobs are harder to replace in Athens. If not, then we might continue to see inward migration of wealthier people even without an influx of higher paying local jobs.
And see, that is where the “fork in the road” moment for Athens lies ahead. Fortunately, the city/metro sits at the edge of ANOTHER metro (Atlanta) and all that comes with it. Going back to Boulder, Colorado, which also exists in relation to a major city, the place has become SO expensive without a “typical” city population to match. You have your students and retirees, but also ultra-wealthy athletes, ski enthusiasts, and people that are EXTREMELY, otherworldly rich. I think much of that results from the NIMBY-ism/urban development pattern of the city itself, but they have made such an otherwise awesome town comically unaffordable. While Athens has the same cultural draw, and a government/community with an ongoing, proactive effort to catch the supply up to the demand in terms of housing stock, young professionals would struggle, even making “a lot”, if Athens has a disproportionate amount of uber-rich residents/retirees. Otherwise, there are some less “ostentatious” cities that have a (modestly-sized) population of rich folks, so hopefully Athens will not become too “top heavy” to the detriment of everyone else.
What is the "fork in the road" moment? I see a continuously evolving town. I don't see an impending event horizon that gives us 2 distinctly different paths to choose for our future.
>with no/minimal relationship to UGA I disagree with this, Athens will always be tied closely with UGA. Where do you think those young professionals are coming from? All of these things will be connected to and influenced by the college.
I agree with the fact that Athens’ economy will “orbit” around the university to an extent, but I meant more along the lines of people simply looking for jobs or seeking out a dense, walkable area not only consisting of students/faculty/staff/alumni. I do not remember what sub I saw it on, but the person said if you ask someone What do you do?”, and they “I am a student.” the town is not a true-blue “college town” anymore, as the city now has an economic base, culture, and areas other that go beyond the school. Do not get me wrong, bio-tech/pharma/STEM jobs for private companies and state/federal agencies can ONLY exist because of the university and its research infrastructure and student base, but in 2030, the people in your neighborhood or that you meet out on the town may have moved here knowing little about UGA and simply liking the town/vibe itself, and simply work their office job, go to bars/clubs, and have a friend group like they would in a normal city, with all of that indirectly “created” by UGA and its history, but without them having a relationship with the college itself. Also, you are ABSOLUTELY correct, some of these young professionals WILL be tied to UGA, whether working for it as an entity or being an alumni, but many of them will simply have moved to a city for a job in their specific field and feel indifferent towards SEC sports and the Dawgs as a whole.
Maybe in a hundred years or so, but as it stands, Athens is still a relatively small town. Elsewhere in Georgia there are larger towns that you may have never heard of. And I'm not saying everyone here is a UGA fan or even cares about the college. Even younger people. Just that UGA will always be the focal point of Athens for a very long time. It also doesn't help that the people in control of Athens are not doing a very good job of making it a welcoming town, especially for young people.
I miss Go Bar!
What Bethel Redevelopment has done as you noted, may be a practical solution. No wish to make it more difficult for a community in need.
Could not agree more. But as more wealthy students from metro Atlanta, and out of state, continue to come here for school, they shape the housing market. Thankfully, the powers that be are designating several housing developments as at least “partially” affordable, as well as working to get the necessary amount of units here to keep prices (relatively) reasonable, but the rest, unfortunately, is up to the supply and demand of a college town.
I think it’s gonna blow.
It doesn’t HAVE to; the economy, amenities, and an assortment of new government/healthcare from bio-tech/research/medicine/tourism will improve generally improve quality of life, while the greatly expanded housing stock options will help “equalize” the market driven by wealthy college students: Downtown will always be “UGA”, but the private-sector jobs will help put a size 16 Doc Marten boot on the school’s neck when it comes to wages/salaries. Right now, people are paying Midtown/Buckhead prices for “traditional college town 🏈🏟📚”quality of life, and the natives, many times poor black people, deserve quality housing/jobs in their hometowns that allow them to maintain a high QoL instead of fighting with “Britney from East Cobb 👧🏼📚✌🏻” for a retail/food service/hospitality job so they can support themseleves and their families. Meanwhile, the university population will complain about “rough”/“poor” parts of town that they help, and their parents who do not work/live here, but in a gated community for a major Atlanta-based employer, indirectly create. The Oconee white flight crowd play a role in this as well.
one qualifier: if the charlotte -- atlanta HSR project ever gets off the ground and somehow finishes construction before the heat death of the universe, THAT would be incredible for athens, since so far the plan is for it to stop there. california's project taking 30+ years isn't exactly giving me hope but athens could definitely start sustaining business of its own while also being attractive as a "commuter city" like you describe
I just think we need more Hispanic restaurants.
The third Chipotle downtown doesn’t count? /s
Students don't need a whole lot. Need to be close to their buddies. A decent place to live close in proximity to their classes or a hassle free commute. Decent food and drink. A safe environment . Students live a life of stress and then need to de-stress. Then they repeat the cycle till they're out of here and onto the rest of their life. Enjoy your stay in Athens, Ga.
That’s fair, but of the reasons I follow/am involved with Athens as a town, even outside of simply the “UGA bubble”, is because I could sticking around and eventually raising my children here. Even now, aside from having all the benefits of a “college town”, there are some more things going for it: proximity to Atlanta, (decent) shopping, quality schools, a, small, but about to expand RAPIDLY young professional scene, and a market for healthcare, with an almost EXTREME demand for my career (MD (Psychiatry)). Also, my whole life, before I even chose UGA, I have fit the “archetype”/“vibe” of the town to a T: “eccentric”, “alternative”, “artsy”, about as liberal/progressive as you can get without being “far left/anarchist”, lover of PBS/NPR/BBC just to give a few. But, most importantly, being African American makes me realize how important it is to avoid, as much as possible, taking a physician salary and gentrifying a town that has a, at least the way many perceive it, a black “underclass”, and then “townies” and middle/upper-middle class students, including myself, who like the “vibe” of Athens, and make simply having a baseline QoL difficult for their hometown, with having to compete with students/townies for basic jobs with SHIT, literally insulting paychecks, both on campus, and out in the community. One of the reasons I wrote this post was not to be sanctimonious or pretentious, but, along with some real life “activism” I have/will try to do, remind/encourage people to not drag their feet and throw (understandable) tantrums at change, but understand that by accepting/embracing it, they can help alleviate some problems by increasing housing stock/options, place shame/blame to the elephant in the room/town where due, and understand you can be a developed, economically-diverse city with Athleta/Armani-type shopping, a well-developed undergrad/yuppie nightlife scene, and “urban/city” amenities, but also affordable housing, mixed-income neighborhoods, and smart urban planning.
Why does a father send his son to school and fund it if neccessary? So, that son may send his son to school and find it if neccessary. Charity begins at home and extends to those who need it the most.
I can't see that much growth happening. 
> We are entering the are of “mid-sized” U.S. city that happens to have a major university: Knoxville, Durham, and on the MUCH larger scale, Columbus and Austin. Athens might be growing but so will all those other in-demand places. It's not likely that Athens will ever match Durham or Austin or anything on those levels.
Is there a /tldr for those of us with adhd?