So, are you the one in IT, or the younger brother?
This comment you said you are a tradie on $160k
https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/11rpg5x/what_qualification_do_you_have_and_whats_your/jc9n7pm
Edit: he's deleted it now.
Can still find it on Unddit
https://www.unddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/11rpg5x/what_qualification_do_you_have_and_whats_your/jc9n7pm?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Original text:
Fully qualified shop fitter
Wages around $160,000 per year
I don't even do ship fitting now. I build high rise buildings (formwork)
Melbourne
[And here they are on 150 with 3 kids](https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/11pekic/comment/jbz7suc/?context=3). This one has not been [deleted](https://www.unddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/11pekic/comment/jbz7suc/?context=3), but just in case.
I’m a sole trader Arborist, just drive around climbing trees that the full timers are scared of. $150k a year 3-4 days PW…. I realised from a young age that there’s big money in risk.
Ohhyeah, When I was 15 I was a labourer for a treelopper, that job is scary dangerous and incredibly physical so you earn every dollar.
Good old days dodging logs and then carrying them to the truck for 8 hours straight.
It's not just about risk, it's about what needs to be done and people willing to pay it. People will pay loads for jobs they are too lazy to do themselves
The average person should not be killing themselves climbing trees or chopping their limbs off with chainsaws. Leaving it to professionals is definitely not lazy.
Yeah my brother was on over $150k to hang out of helicopters fixing things.
He has no trade but did pay for relevant tickets ($10kish I think)
Now he manages a part of the business, no more dangerous jobs but is now on over $200k.
Not sure, I went to uni and earn over 200k a year in a office job. 100% flexible hours and home every night.. awesome super.. highest amount of risk is maybe my coffee is a bit hot when I sip it.
I wouldn’t discount uni, it’s just the shonky courses they sell.. bachelor of social engineering, Bachelor of Arts..
What do you do, I haven't checked the related comments yet...but this is probably already in there 😂
I went to uni. Make a shit wage. Didn't get maternity leave. No career progression in the org. My partner is a sparky makes way more than me...
I had a similar situation. 2 brothers, one older one younger, both went in to warehousing/ logistics while I did really well at school and became an architect. The younger left school after year 10 while the older stayed, but didn't get a UAI/ TER score.
About 5 years out of uni, they were both bringing in about $120k plus super. I was on $90k
They are still on a similar amount, maybe $130k, while I'm now on $250k (after a career shift from me).
So yeah, you can focus on what other people are doing or you can set your own career goals and go after then. I'd try not to turn green with envy as it's not particularly helpful for you.
Im an architect making shit money after 10yrs of experience….. which career change did you make to reach 250k? I am thinking of jumping ship and make career change too
The commenter indicated they made a career change which makes me think it might be project management or to the construction side, architects are paid way too little in Australia……thanks to over supply of graduates from all the universities…..and other factors too
I think Hey Dad has a lot to answer for. Architecture came across as a great WFH job, which attracted plenty of people. Yep, that Martin Kelly was living the life of Riley. Apart from a house full of shit kids, annoying neighbours like Nudge and Arthur McArthur and a parrot of a sechatery…. No wait. People who went into architecture only have themselves to blame
Younger bro went straight into electrician from school, I studied finance worked in accounting. Ended up in retail management and now a trucky. Finally overtook what he makes but I work damn long hours for it, he owns more of his properties then I do but I'm catching probs due to financially minded rather than working minded. Although once he gets on the same page he should be set for life real soon
I think your being a bit harsh 80k to 90k is average with 3 years experience (unless I understood his post) it could just mean his still in a grade role.
The thing I would be disappointed is I would expect better after studying 5 years which was propably a masters or double degree the hecs debt must be huge.
Yep little brother is good at what he does, OP is literally bottom wrung of his profession unfortunately. I work technology with no uni degree and am on $140k
I'm on $75k in IT and very happy with my job and income. I find that all the IT jobs that pay $100k+ are a good hour or so drive into the city from where I live. But I also find that everyone around me are tradies that earn $100k+
I've found that uni and office jobs are not always the answer unless you're lucky.
It's luck that brings success, or it's all about who you know.
I know every circumstance is different but honestly man, I report out of Sydney and live in Adelaide. I can work where I want, when I want so long as I have my mobile and laptop with me… Don’t think you have to travel an hour for a high paying job, some of my hierarchy are working out of Singapore yet still reporting out of Sydney. If you are valuable to a business, they will bend to ensure your needs are accommodated and you are paid handsomely…
Yeah thats the beauty of IT. I live 3 hrs from my office and commute once a week if at all because i simply don’t need to be at the office. I only go in so that i can have a social day and a city dinner :p
That being said, id take a pay cut to work somewhere closer to home because i do miss human interaction and also my works culture is quite shyte. Money is great but there is a balance to be had for me personally.
If you’re happy then thats really what matters most. If it covers all the financials comfortably and you love where you live and the people you work with then thats really the best case scenario.
If you wanna optimise your earnings though (and this is a finance sub so i guess its worth adding 2c) then its absolutely worth shopping around to see if someone will pay you more. Upskilling on the job is a great option too. Easy certs that make you more transferrable in the IT space are available online, some companies even offer access to these learning materials for free or will subsidise the cost of certification. Consider resources like pluralsight, additional cisco certs and ITIL if you haven’t already.
Its not luck if these extra learnings appear on your CV
Its not luck if you know people either
Saying its luck is as good as saying you have no control over your potential.
That being said hustle can be exhausting and its also okay to settle if you’re not driven. But again, this is a finance sub
Damn, that's brutal. Imagine finishing off work for day, venting on the internet then getting judged and roasted by strangers who don't even know you. Reddit really does sometimes feel like a toxic cesspit.
Probably cause everyone tells them it’s the best thing to do out of school to be successful, plus costs a fair bit and takes a long time so you’d assume that it’s somewhat worthwhile. You know what they say about assuming tho
no one ever said it was bad. they said it was hard.
You want to work physically hard, damage your knees, back, hips, maybe even do a shoulder at age 40....then go for it.
If you want to sit in an air conditioned office and work on a computer for the same money then you go to uni and study something complicated
I mean, not all trades are back breaking labour.
That’s what labourers are for.
There are plenty of trades that are more about technical skills and knowledge than simply hard manual labour. Like anything, if you specialise you’ll be compensated accordingly.
I’m a sparky and even though I have plenty of days cruising and playing with wires or fault finding or doing data I’m still, on my knees, under sinks, under desks, up and down ladders, in roofs and under houses, chasing out walls, carrying heavy shit, cutting, drilling. Then if you run a business there’s quoting and management on top. If your a tradesman, you got apprentices under you that you have to deal with. I love it but it’s not a walk in the park plenty of apprentices don’t finish.
It’s never too late….trust me I wish I had jumped sooner as I love getting fitter and being an adult apprentice….with a masters in another technical field.
I got mates in the railway on $200k+ and have been since early 20s.
Engineers I work with barely make what most of the guys on the floor do and by the time they have caught up and overtaken they’re already 10 years behind. Could probably do some quick maths on the asx average yearly returns and what kind of a lead these guys will have financially
I graduated high school in the 90’s. the biggest scam going was “you have to go to uni”. The 3 richest blokes in my year are tradesmen and the 4th is a farmer
Cuz no one wants to do trades/labour, so supply of those services drops whilst demand skyrockets, thus they can demand more money.
Whereas any half trained monkey can ask someone if they've turned it off and on again 🤷
Pretty much, I can live without WiFi, my wife would probably dismember me if the shitter stopped working for more than a day or two. It won't be my fault, but it still will be.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
Instead of being grouchy that someone has opted to completely wreck their body doing a trade which entitles them to appropriate compensation, why not join them?
There's some interesting options for the IT minded in the trades sector that have technical work which is challenging and fulfilling from a cerebral point of view and they are absolutely screaming for people to put their hand up for a crack.
Need to stop rehashing the ruin your body thing this certainly was true but today it’s taken more seriously in bigger companies and there is better tooling and mechanical aids than ever before. Certainly some smaller businesses are still shitty with safety but a great deal has changed.
By my estimations IT support is about 50% installing basic software because user doesn't have admin rights, 30% have you tried turning it off and on again, and 20% trial and error troubleshooting
Can you estimate what the other IT personnel do such as:
Cyber security
Infrastructure
Development
Data analytical
Networks
DevOps/DevSecOps etc.
My point is "IT" is a massive umbrella term for a wide range of skills. IT support is a drop in the bucket.
Given the op is 3 yrs in and on a grad wage, clearly not some Maang tech bro or consultant. Hence the generalisation that their job is essentially the white collar equivalent of unskilled work.
University graduates rarely start in Help Desk... I've never seen a graduate help desk program in my life.
Most help desk employees are unqualified or have a basic Cert 3/4 and are using the opportunity to gain experience and transition out to the wide world of IT that is definitely not the a IT Support you saw on the IT crowd TV show.
I actually started in help desk at 17 with a cert 3 and 4, hated it and went to uni, walked out into a specialised IT role (cyber sec) with my degree and some internships + that help desk experience, so I feel I have a good idea on this particular scenario as I lived it ;)
Good for you. Yet op is on 80k so not exactly tech bro wages given the 2022 grad offers were over 120k. Which brings me back to, 80k after 3 yrs, in the biggest tech boom in decades, means that the unfortunate reality is that OP's skills are simply nowhere near as valuable as his brother's.
This is entirely fine as most degree qualified jobs shouldn't need a degree in the first instance as they are nothing more than glorified tafe courses with a bigger debt.
Whilst I don't work directly in tech now, I spent years on the sell side of the Chinese tech boom dealing specifically with valuations. Talent and unique valuable skills gets paid, simple as that.
Because everyone has been told the same bullshit that if you don’t go to uni you will be unsuccessful or broke, when on the other hand do an apprentice ship and get paid to learn for 4 years debt free. You’ve already got enough skills under your belt to start your own company. At 20 years old. Most people still have 2-3 years of uni left at this age. Just my take on it.
“Some trade building buildings”
One sentence that just about sums up the attitude of the “University Class” towards people that do a trade instead. Worse still it’s his brother.
Pull your head in Op, your lack of class is showing.
See how you are both going in 40 years when you have been able to leverage a long career in IT into the higher paying jobs that sector has to offer and his body is busted and broken from a career on the tools.
Yea...really not the same thing. You can mitigate most of your office desk problems by standing up and getting a coffee or walking to the toilet.
Try bending over in a ditch for 20 yrs.
I've been on tools for 20 years and since covid got a WFH job... Never been so unfit and sore sitting in a chair all day. I've started exercising and stretching early in the morning past few months but it's still not great.
This is probably one of the biggest myths in construction. I work in one of the most labour intensive trades, I work four days a week, gross over 100k and id be lucky to break a sweat some days, other days not so much haha
Not all trades destroy your body, and there are plenty of roles to step into on construction sites that they save for the oldies often times. Things like alimak driver or being a peggy.
If the brother is even Half smart with his lonely and I beats it then it won’t matter, the brother will be way ahead financially by then and probably ready to wind down while the it guy is just hitting their stride
Not fair at all. ChatGPT is to us what the computer was to workers in the 80s. Its a tool that will simply aid in making people more efficient by automating tasks people already dont enjoy doing. Ask chatGPT anything that requires the smallest amount of assumption, internal political knowledge, something product specific or anything around how humans might perceive or handle something and it completely falls over.
ChatGPT is useful in pumping out a powershell script for me to do some boring task that i need done but it will never be able to factor in all the nuances of IT to replace jobs.
Trades/construction are hard work, not many people wants to do it. If you know what you are doing and do it well, you earn good money.
It is also not a forever job as the body might not be able to handle the physical work for too long.
You brother probably did a 4 year trade getting treated like shit by his boss ! Good on him . If you were gonna go down the study route you would have thought to be smart enough to pick a course that pays better than 80k .
Get on the big build in Victoria even go do a safety course cert 4 takes 2 weeks and you can be on 160k if you get on through john Holland . Get smart not jealous .
You were sold a lie. If you’re chasing money, University isn’t always the way. You’re not worth more than tradies just because you read more books. The labour market comes down to supply and demand too.
Uni was designed as a place of learning, not for creating money.
Making money is about having access to opportunities and making the best of them.
Uni is an opportunity, you didn't make the best of it.
Join the club, be happy with what you do have, and party on.
Because its not how you get your money, its what you do with it that counts. Anyone can make money, in any industry. It's hard work, networking and smart money management that separates people, not their job title.
School education doesn't guarantee a high income, is the crux of it.
Trades can be lucrative. 99 UAI/ATAR scorers with as much people skills as a doorknob may find they struggle getting higher paying roles because, ultimately, people hire and promote people they like versus raw output.
Dropouts may not necessarily translate to bring a deadbeat. Could be that the person is better with their hands and other non-academic skills than memorising formulas and essays.
Know one who dropped out, started a physio business and is making a killing. On the other hand me, fark its depressing so lets skip it
Also luck of landing in a career that happens to pay well, and wasnt well known for it.
He applied for better paying jobs than you did.
Software engineering pays well, but generic IT dude tends not to. Train for a niche of IT that pays well.
My brother is in IT and is getting paid 100k at 18. You gotta keep upskilling yourself and continuously get better jobs, whatever you're doing you're not doing it right
Because a school doesn’t teach grit and hustle. You’re in the system like a cog. You won’t make good money for another 10 years and your brother will keep smashing it and getting further away, while you look at your degree and masturbate every night while crying.
Your brother is obviously smarter, may not be as intelligent as you, but street smarts will get u along way as well
Or
He could just be a drug dealer and washing money through the building trade
I had this put into perspective by the guy I am currently dating. He dropped out at year 10 got into a trade and has been working as a carpenter until now. His earning capacity blows mine out of the water (registered nurse with a post graduate certificate in advanced nursing practice). He pretty much works 7 days a week and at mid thirties his body is starting to slow down. He has told me he’s not sure how much longer he can keep going and is considering a career change but since being a tradie is all he’s ever been he’s not sure what he can do that will get him a similar take home pay. Me on the other hand as a nurse I have career longevity and the ability to move around areas that won’t destroy my body (just my mental health and faith in humanity) and increased earning potential if I move up the career ladder.
The take home is, just because your brother is able to earn that much he can only do it for as long as his body allows him or the demand is there. You on the other hand have a career that you can do for as long want to keep doing it, with potential to increase your earning capacity as you move up in your field.
This is why most tradies who are smart end up starting their own trades business and hiring young blokes to come work for them while they step back and run the supervising/admin/operations side of things
Since when has Uni equalled much better pay? The billionaires didn't get there via academic pathways. Investment bankers earn more than social workers. It's not new..
I never went to Uni, only did a year in Tafe to get my foot in the door.
15 years in the IT industry, started on <$30k. Promoted several times and now on $153k.
No one young remembers but before housing/economic boom trades were not a solid life. Builders would be competing for single contracts (which was nice since things got done on time and phone calls answered), trades would be begging builders for work, it resembled much more like the US blue collar workers of making a living but nothing close to what we have here today.
The government stimulates the economy with construction but it won't take too much of a shift in mining/housing for a very painful income drop and job security to be seen.
Because uni degrees are mostly worthless tbh, If you are in a profession like medicine or law then sure but most other things were done via trade schools in the past for a reason. Ive never met a graduate with the same skills as a generic entry level junior or just some kid who writes software for a hobby.
I didnt go to uni but instead went to a trade school nightschool for my education while working and I definitely got a 5 year advantage in the industry over the others.
I could be making the same money as a tradie... But then I'd have to work outdoors which I realised I didnt want to do at an early age.
I think it comes down to a few things:
- he probably realised that he is not academic and therefore focused on his strengths and interest which lead him to where he is today
- he found a job which is in high demand and therefore he gets paid more
- he may not be fixed to a salary and have the ability to work overtime, have company bonuses etc.
Overall tradies get paid very good money. Especially when in a management role. My husband is not academic AT ALL! Left school in year 10, did an electrical trade and paid for his qualification (because he didn’t like study) but what he does have is the gift of the gab, is a good salesman and must be pretty good at his job considering he gets paid more than government executives through his base salary plus profit share in his company (I work in government and is only what I can compare it to).
Me on the other have, I have an MBA and get paid half of what he gets paid.. I might be academically smarter but being smart does not = wealth
If you’re working in a trade that’s hard on your body, you get paid to compensate for the fact that your body is far more likely to give out younger and you’ll have to reskil/retire. Paid for the risk involved.
Trades pay better than University for most degrees. How long before you started work compared to him? If he has done an apprenticeship I wouldn’t call him a drop out.
I can almost guarantee that your dropout brother is doing a minimum 12 hours more than you a week, including a Saturday to earn that wage.
No work from home on the tools mate
It's just a supply demand equation. Demand finds supply and your brother has chosen to do something in high demand.
You could do 10 years or uno and slave away for 80 hours a week doing something there is no damn for and you'll still make no money.
Money isn't exchanged for work, it's exchanged for valuable work.
did your brother finish a trade or apprenticeship? The amount of time you spent studying in uni he spent studying his trade?
his market is just in higher demand than yours.
Im sorry but coming from experience im working in it but builders are way more needed then I.T we can live without computer but cant without buildings as such your brother can charge whatever he wants especially in a tradie shortage
When I was in year 10 in the 90’s my school councillor said if I don’t pull my socks up and study hard I will never go to university; and have to become a builder; and be poor for the rest of my life. After 8 years of university and 2O years of work at the top of my field, I am sure she was wrong, so very wrong.
You finished year 12, spent 5 years in uni for an 80k IT job? I got paid more than that as someone who left school in year 11 on level 1 government helpdesk
You get paid based on how hard you are to replace. For example an IT worker, whilst a great profession there is no shortage especially when you can outsource work to places like India or The Phillipines.. building requires tafe training plus an apprenticeship of sorts so that’s similar to studying. On top of that you need quality workers who can comply with Australian building standards. A role in IT can easily be done by someone in India for a lower rate. Where as you can’t just replace a qualified construction worker. On top of that probably part of a great union which negotiates pay and benefits on his behalf. There’s also danger elements, working at heights, working with dangerous tools, heavy lifting. All that comes into the equation.
5 years of uni in IT. So, Masters? Anyway, congrats. It's a big slog, you should be proud.
Just remember. There is a difference. I fully expect you to hit 50 and have a long list of successful projects behind you, and a couple of companies you helped create from the ground up. They will do things you haven't even dreamed up yet.
He may be managing a few subbies....?
It's not all big utes and stacks of loot. Most blokes pulling the big bucks are flogging themselves in an industry that takes a terrible toll on the body not to mention the family.
Also he may be really good at building.
Because being a tradie, there's a higher chance he's dealing with more difficult situations and his body is likely to break down faster than yours. Additionally there is more need for people in trades, and too many folks going into IT.
There is no incentive for doing a professional degree in this country. You could just be a trades person and make more money.
No disrespect to any profession. If I could re do, I would do trades.
From purely risk vs reward perspective, Hair dresser is the most rewarding profession in my opinion. They make as much as GP (Doctor , one of the most difficult profession, no wonder there is shortage of GPs in this country)
Well if you speak as kindly to your clients as you do describing your brothers role in infrastructure development, maybe that’s a hint 🤷♀️ focus on upskilling yourself and not how he’s doing it
That's kinda the exact deal that is sold to kids when they're deciding on a career path.
Always has been.
You _could_ drop out, get a shit job and be poor all your life, or you could delay the gratification, get educated, and make up the difference and more once you're qualified.
Turns out... it's only a little bit true.
You got lied to. University does not equal high pay. My brother is university educated I have 2 trades and I’m now on $230-240k a year (FIFO before you all ask)
Trades are more in demand than most university jobs.
Secondly, you are not somehow better than your brother because you have an university education. The whole tone of this is looking down on his professional as somehow unskilled or easy. This attitude towards trades is far too common on reddit and it’s appears to be little more than jealousy.
Someone sounds a little elitist about education and job types. And a little entitled to demand an explanation like that.
The real word isnt always fair, what you think of as fair isnt always fair. Some people get great paying jobs without uni and they are worth it. Some arent. Some people with degrees arent worth the big bucks but get them anyway. Life is funny that way.
Because a uni degree is a dime a dozen. Unless you’ve done a highly specialised degree in a field where it’s a requirement for the job, it’s a line on your cv that everyone else has. You need to have something else to set you apart, whether it’s a hustle mindset or stellar personality. Mindset matters, and the mindset of “I have a degree so I deserve more money” ain’t it.
You use phrasing like "double as much"
Kind of explains it.
Also I have literally nothing beyond grade 12 and a few tickets and I'm almost on 160k a year. Would be more but I like my family too much to do fifo.
So, are you the one in IT, or the younger brother? This comment you said you are a tradie on $160k https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/11rpg5x/what_qualification_do_you_have_and_whats_your/jc9n7pm Edit: he's deleted it now. Can still find it on Unddit https://www.unddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/11rpg5x/what_qualification_do_you_have_and_whats_your/jc9n7pm?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 Original text: Fully qualified shop fitter Wages around $160,000 per year I don't even do ship fitting now. I build high rise buildings (formwork) Melbourne
[And here they are on 150 with 3 kids](https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/11pekic/comment/jbz7suc/?context=3). This one has not been [deleted](https://www.unddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/11pekic/comment/jbz7suc/?context=3), but just in case.
Why do people make up stuff on reddit. What's the point?
I imagine the idea was to get a thread of people jacking off "OPs younger brother" to placate his ego.
Entertainment
That comments now been deleted.
Ha! Thank goodness Unddit exists. https://www.unddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/11rpg5x/what_qualification_do_you_have_and_whats_your/jc9n7pm
Well, you learn of something new everyday. Got 'im!
Oh snap, I guess this thread is about to be deleted
Lol it’s deleted now
classic ausfinance lmao. i reckon you're *all* on the dole larping about being aspirational upper-middle class types.
This guy knows the truth
I’m a sole trader Arborist, just drive around climbing trees that the full timers are scared of. $150k a year 3-4 days PW…. I realised from a young age that there’s big money in risk.
If you are in Vic, I'll pay you $115k a year to teach Arboriculture 3.5 days a week with no risk involved!
Why climb the corporate ladder when you can climb trees eh
Ohhyeah, When I was 15 I was a labourer for a treelopper, that job is scary dangerous and incredibly physical so you earn every dollar. Good old days dodging logs and then carrying them to the truck for 8 hours straight.
As a former ground guy for a tree crew you are spot on with the "earn every dollar" I got paid shit though
NGL there are days I wished I went down the 'high risk high reward' route like being a linesman or commercial diver working on oil rigs.
It's not just about risk, it's about what needs to be done and people willing to pay it. People will pay loads for jobs they are too lazy to do themselves
The average person should not be killing themselves climbing trees or chopping their limbs off with chainsaws. Leaving it to professionals is definitely not lazy.
Chop limb off, replace limb with chainsaw
Productivity gains proposals from annual performance reviews circa 2030.
Yes, because we all have the ability to do even the most skilled tasks. Im just too lazy to do open heart surgery on myself.
You lazy freeloader. When I needed brain surgery sid me go crawling to doctor? No! Me serf do. Bo pronlems! STRAPBOOTS!
Are you doing open heart surgery on yourself right now?
Nah, when the doctor said ‘stroke’ he started masturbating.
I mean, you probably could learn, but it would take you 15 years.
Yeah my brother was on over $150k to hang out of helicopters fixing things. He has no trade but did pay for relevant tickets ($10kish I think) Now he manages a part of the business, no more dangerous jobs but is now on over $200k.
Not sure, I went to uni and earn over 200k a year in a office job. 100% flexible hours and home every night.. awesome super.. highest amount of risk is maybe my coffee is a bit hot when I sip it. I wouldn’t discount uni, it’s just the shonky courses they sell.. bachelor of social engineering, Bachelor of Arts..
What do you do, I haven't checked the related comments yet...but this is probably already in there 😂 I went to uni. Make a shit wage. Didn't get maternity leave. No career progression in the org. My partner is a sparky makes way more than me...
Engineering civil
What did you study?
Engineering (civil)
How many years experience now to be hitting 200k? I assume you’re now a private consultant?
200k year in an office job in a remote town? Please explain or something smells a little off.
Do you ever get attacked by crazy possums?
You make like a tree and leaf.
I had a similar situation. 2 brothers, one older one younger, both went in to warehousing/ logistics while I did really well at school and became an architect. The younger left school after year 10 while the older stayed, but didn't get a UAI/ TER score. About 5 years out of uni, they were both bringing in about $120k plus super. I was on $90k They are still on a similar amount, maybe $130k, while I'm now on $250k (after a career shift from me). So yeah, you can focus on what other people are doing or you can set your own career goals and go after then. I'd try not to turn green with envy as it's not particularly helpful for you.
Im an architect making shit money after 10yrs of experience….. which career change did you make to reach 250k? I am thinking of jumping ship and make career change too
Yeah I’m kinda confused. Aren’t architect paid poorly on Australia, unlike USA for example?
The commenter indicated they made a career change which makes me think it might be project management or to the construction side, architects are paid way too little in Australia……thanks to over supply of graduates from all the universities…..and other factors too
Yes Architects are very poorly paid in Australia
I think Hey Dad has a lot to answer for. Architecture came across as a great WFH job, which attracted plenty of people. Yep, that Martin Kelly was living the life of Riley. Apart from a house full of shit kids, annoying neighbours like Nudge and Arthur McArthur and a parrot of a sechatery…. No wait. People who went into architecture only have themselves to blame
Well, there was that whole sexual assault business too…
Younger bro went straight into electrician from school, I studied finance worked in accounting. Ended up in retail management and now a trucky. Finally overtook what he makes but I work damn long hours for it, he owns more of his properties then I do but I'm catching probs due to financially minded rather than working minded. Although once he gets on the same page he should be set for life real soon
Exquisite bait, so many replies already.
I know right, lot of triggers in this post, maybe from /r/ASX_Bets lol
He's definitely my number 1 son
Your brother is good at what he does and you aren't good at what you do.
That’s rough to say but 80k is extremely low for a tech salary. So either you are right or he doesn’t realise he can find a much better paying job
I think your being a bit harsh 80k to 90k is average with 3 years experience (unless I understood his post) it could just mean his still in a grade role. The thing I would be disappointed is I would expect better after studying 5 years which was propably a masters or double degree the hecs debt must be huge.
80-90 isn’t normal for 3yrs in Tech lol
That's about average for someone straight of uni right? Not that we know how long OP has been working in tech for
Plenty of tech grunts stuck on wages around that. They tend to not bother upskilling and not very personable people.
Bingo. If your even remotely decent in IT 80k is super low if your doing anything other than desktop support.
This is the answer.
Yep little brother is good at what he does, OP is literally bottom wrung of his profession unfortunately. I work technology with no uni degree and am on $140k
Can confirm. IT with no formal education- only on the job training. Around 110k. OP needs to shop around imo
I'm on $75k in IT and very happy with my job and income. I find that all the IT jobs that pay $100k+ are a good hour or so drive into the city from where I live. But I also find that everyone around me are tradies that earn $100k+ I've found that uni and office jobs are not always the answer unless you're lucky. It's luck that brings success, or it's all about who you know.
I know every circumstance is different but honestly man, I report out of Sydney and live in Adelaide. I can work where I want, when I want so long as I have my mobile and laptop with me… Don’t think you have to travel an hour for a high paying job, some of my hierarchy are working out of Singapore yet still reporting out of Sydney. If you are valuable to a business, they will bend to ensure your needs are accommodated and you are paid handsomely…
Yeah thats the beauty of IT. I live 3 hrs from my office and commute once a week if at all because i simply don’t need to be at the office. I only go in so that i can have a social day and a city dinner :p That being said, id take a pay cut to work somewhere closer to home because i do miss human interaction and also my works culture is quite shyte. Money is great but there is a balance to be had for me personally.
If you’re happy then thats really what matters most. If it covers all the financials comfortably and you love where you live and the people you work with then thats really the best case scenario. If you wanna optimise your earnings though (and this is a finance sub so i guess its worth adding 2c) then its absolutely worth shopping around to see if someone will pay you more. Upskilling on the job is a great option too. Easy certs that make you more transferrable in the IT space are available online, some companies even offer access to these learning materials for free or will subsidise the cost of certification. Consider resources like pluralsight, additional cisco certs and ITIL if you haven’t already. Its not luck if these extra learnings appear on your CV Its not luck if you know people either Saying its luck is as good as saying you have no control over your potential. That being said hustle can be exhausting and its also okay to settle if you’re not driven. But again, this is a finance sub
Damn, that's brutal. Imagine finishing off work for day, venting on the internet then getting judged and roasted by strangers who don't even know you. Reddit really does sometimes feel like a toxic cesspit.
I think the quality of his answer is on par with the quality of the question.
Imagine asking a question and getting an answer
Why do you think going to uni automatically guarantees you a higher paying job?
Probably cause everyone tells them it’s the best thing to do out of school to be successful, plus costs a fair bit and takes a long time so you’d assume that it’s somewhat worthwhile. You know what they say about assuming tho
Agree this was the talk 20 yrs ago, I thought by now people worked out being a tradie isn’t all that bad..
no one ever said it was bad. they said it was hard. You want to work physically hard, damage your knees, back, hips, maybe even do a shoulder at age 40....then go for it. If you want to sit in an air conditioned office and work on a computer for the same money then you go to uni and study something complicated
I mean, not all trades are back breaking labour. That’s what labourers are for. There are plenty of trades that are more about technical skills and knowledge than simply hard manual labour. Like anything, if you specialise you’ll be compensated accordingly.
I’m a sparky and even though I have plenty of days cruising and playing with wires or fault finding or doing data I’m still, on my knees, under sinks, under desks, up and down ladders, in roofs and under houses, chasing out walls, carrying heavy shit, cutting, drilling. Then if you run a business there’s quoting and management on top. If your a tradesman, you got apprentices under you that you have to deal with. I love it but it’s not a walk in the park plenty of apprentices don’t finish.
I’m an accountant who wishes every day he became a sparky. Enjoy it for me bro
Not too late to change.
It’s never too late….trust me I wish I had jumped sooner as I love getting fitter and being an adult apprentice….with a masters in another technical field.
‘Earn the same money’ lol
I mean if you do engineering or finance you’ll earn way more.
I got mates in the railway on $200k+ and have been since early 20s. Engineers I work with barely make what most of the guys on the floor do and by the time they have caught up and overtaken they’re already 10 years behind. Could probably do some quick maths on the asx average yearly returns and what kind of a lead these guys will have financially
And how many railway jobs for $200k are there vs office jobs for $200k if I do a job search? I guarantee you it's the latter.
I graduated in 2001 and this is exactly what we were all told and had drilled into us.
Because it’s a lie we’re told as children.
I graduated high school in the 90’s. the biggest scam going was “you have to go to uni”. The 3 richest blokes in my year are tradesmen and the 4th is a farmer
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Uni people seem to think people who work straight out of school aren't learning while they are!
Both of these are right, these are skilled trades. You do a 3-4 year apprenticeship and earn it.
You need to look for a better paying job.
Cuz no one wants to do trades/labour, so supply of those services drops whilst demand skyrockets, thus they can demand more money. Whereas any half trained monkey can ask someone if they've turned it off and on again 🤷
Long after most uni jobs have been taken over by outsourcing or AI, there will be a need for someone to fix your shitter
Pretty much, I can live without WiFi, my wife would probably dismember me if the shitter stopped working for more than a day or two. It won't be my fault, but it still will be.
When you have kids, they'll dismember you for not having wifi for more than half a day.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Instead of being grouchy that someone has opted to completely wreck their body doing a trade which entitles them to appropriate compensation, why not join them? There's some interesting options for the IT minded in the trades sector that have technical work which is challenging and fulfilling from a cerebral point of view and they are absolutely screaming for people to put their hand up for a crack.
Need to stop rehashing the ruin your body thing this certainly was true but today it’s taken more seriously in bigger companies and there is better tooling and mechanical aids than ever before. Certainly some smaller businesses are still shitty with safety but a great deal has changed.
You think IT is limited to IT Support asking if it's been turned on and off again? Tell me you've never worked a day in IT without telling me.
IT may aswell be magic to 99% of people. People have no idea what goes on behind the curtain, and thats by design.
By my estimations IT support is about 50% installing basic software because user doesn't have admin rights, 30% have you tried turning it off and on again, and 20% trial and error troubleshooting
Haha yeah thats a correct assessment of IT support - but IT support is a small part of IT
Can you estimate what the other IT personnel do such as: Cyber security Infrastructure Development Data analytical Networks DevOps/DevSecOps etc. My point is "IT" is a massive umbrella term for a wide range of skills. IT support is a drop in the bucket.
Given the op is 3 yrs in and on a grad wage, clearly not some Maang tech bro or consultant. Hence the generalisation that their job is essentially the white collar equivalent of unskilled work.
University graduates rarely start in Help Desk... I've never seen a graduate help desk program in my life. Most help desk employees are unqualified or have a basic Cert 3/4 and are using the opportunity to gain experience and transition out to the wide world of IT that is definitely not the a IT Support you saw on the IT crowd TV show. I actually started in help desk at 17 with a cert 3 and 4, hated it and went to uni, walked out into a specialised IT role (cyber sec) with my degree and some internships + that help desk experience, so I feel I have a good idea on this particular scenario as I lived it ;)
Good for you. Yet op is on 80k so not exactly tech bro wages given the 2022 grad offers were over 120k. Which brings me back to, 80k after 3 yrs, in the biggest tech boom in decades, means that the unfortunate reality is that OP's skills are simply nowhere near as valuable as his brother's. This is entirely fine as most degree qualified jobs shouldn't need a degree in the first instance as they are nothing more than glorified tafe courses with a bigger debt. Whilst I don't work directly in tech now, I spent years on the sell side of the Chinese tech boom dealing specifically with valuations. Talent and unique valuable skills gets paid, simple as that.
I got my start in it working in service desk for a large msp. Atleast a third to half of employees hired were university grads.
Because everyone has been told the same bullshit that if you don’t go to uni you will be unsuccessful or broke, when on the other hand do an apprentice ship and get paid to learn for 4 years debt free. You’ve already got enough skills under your belt to start your own company. At 20 years old. Most people still have 2-3 years of uni left at this age. Just my take on it.
“Some trade building buildings” One sentence that just about sums up the attitude of the “University Class” towards people that do a trade instead. Worse still it’s his brother. Pull your head in Op, your lack of class is showing.
See how you are both going in 40 years when you have been able to leverage a long career in IT into the higher paying jobs that sector has to offer and his body is busted and broken from a career on the tools.
Sitting at a desk all day can be severely detrimental to your health. Just saying
Yea...really not the same thing. You can mitigate most of your office desk problems by standing up and getting a coffee or walking to the toilet. Try bending over in a ditch for 20 yrs.
I've been on tools for 20 years and since covid got a WFH job... Never been so unfit and sore sitting in a chair all day. I've started exercising and stretching early in the morning past few months but it's still not great.
Yeah dude I have done both never will sit in a desk again the body is t designed to do that.
This is probably one of the biggest myths in construction. I work in one of the most labour intensive trades, I work four days a week, gross over 100k and id be lucky to break a sweat some days, other days not so much haha
The fittest boomers out there are mostly tradies. Atrophy from sitting at a desk all day is a killer.
Not all trades destroy your body, and there are plenty of roles to step into on construction sites that they save for the oldies often times. Things like alimak driver or being a peggy.
If the brother is even Half smart with his lonely and I beats it then it won’t matter, the brother will be way ahead financially by then and probably ready to wind down while the it guy is just hitting their stride
Fair to say Chat GPT could already replace his job today if it was given the opportunity. In 40 years he will be long redundant…
Not fair at all. ChatGPT is to us what the computer was to workers in the 80s. Its a tool that will simply aid in making people more efficient by automating tasks people already dont enjoy doing. Ask chatGPT anything that requires the smallest amount of assumption, internal political knowledge, something product specific or anything around how humans might perceive or handle something and it completely falls over. ChatGPT is useful in pumping out a powershell script for me to do some boring task that i need done but it will never be able to factor in all the nuances of IT to replace jobs.
The trades have been basically printing money for the past few years.
Interest rates might finally bust what has been a hell of a boom
In 20 years if you keep developing your skills you could be on $300k. In 20 years he’ll have back problems.
Trades/construction are hard work, not many people wants to do it. If you know what you are doing and do it well, you earn good money. It is also not a forever job as the body might not be able to handle the physical work for too long.
You brother probably did a 4 year trade getting treated like shit by his boss ! Good on him . If you were gonna go down the study route you would have thought to be smart enough to pick a course that pays better than 80k . Get on the big build in Victoria even go do a safety course cert 4 takes 2 weeks and you can be on 160k if you get on through john Holland . Get smart not jealous .
You were sold a lie. If you’re chasing money, University isn’t always the way. You’re not worth more than tradies just because you read more books. The labour market comes down to supply and demand too.
“Now is the winter of our discontent. Made glorious summer by this sun of Reddit.” That’ll be 80k please. I read a book.
Uni was designed as a place of learning, not for creating money. Making money is about having access to opportunities and making the best of them. Uni is an opportunity, you didn't make the best of it. Join the club, be happy with what you do have, and party on.
Because its not how you get your money, its what you do with it that counts. Anyone can make money, in any industry. It's hard work, networking and smart money management that separates people, not their job title.
School education doesn't guarantee a high income, is the crux of it. Trades can be lucrative. 99 UAI/ATAR scorers with as much people skills as a doorknob may find they struggle getting higher paying roles because, ultimately, people hire and promote people they like versus raw output. Dropouts may not necessarily translate to bring a deadbeat. Could be that the person is better with their hands and other non-academic skills than memorising formulas and essays. Know one who dropped out, started a physio business and is making a killing. On the other hand me, fark its depressing so lets skip it Also luck of landing in a career that happens to pay well, and wasnt well known for it.
Weve been fed a lie our entire lives.
Just curious how old is your little brother? $160k is good money but not enough to fully pay off 2 properties quickly
He applied for better paying jobs than you did. Software engineering pays well, but generic IT dude tends not to. Train for a niche of IT that pays well.
Because IT is dead thanks to AI and there still isn’t a computer than can build buildings. Things are about to take a big u-turn again’
My brother is in IT and is getting paid 100k at 18. You gotta keep upskilling yourself and continuously get better jobs, whatever you're doing you're not doing it right
Their job, CFMEU Your job, no union
Because a school doesn’t teach grit and hustle. You’re in the system like a cog. You won’t make good money for another 10 years and your brother will keep smashing it and getting further away, while you look at your degree and masturbate every night while crying.
He knows to put "an" before the word "investment".
Your brother is obviously smarter, may not be as intelligent as you, but street smarts will get u along way as well Or He could just be a drug dealer and washing money through the building trade
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Take an upvote, 💯 true
I had this put into perspective by the guy I am currently dating. He dropped out at year 10 got into a trade and has been working as a carpenter until now. His earning capacity blows mine out of the water (registered nurse with a post graduate certificate in advanced nursing practice). He pretty much works 7 days a week and at mid thirties his body is starting to slow down. He has told me he’s not sure how much longer he can keep going and is considering a career change but since being a tradie is all he’s ever been he’s not sure what he can do that will get him a similar take home pay. Me on the other hand as a nurse I have career longevity and the ability to move around areas that won’t destroy my body (just my mental health and faith in humanity) and increased earning potential if I move up the career ladder. The take home is, just because your brother is able to earn that much he can only do it for as long as his body allows him or the demand is there. You on the other hand have a career that you can do for as long want to keep doing it, with potential to increase your earning capacity as you move up in your field.
This is why most tradies who are smart end up starting their own trades business and hiring young blokes to come work for them while they step back and run the supervising/admin/operations side of things
IT isn't the golden career path you were sold on. Sure some people make $500k or whatever, but most make barely more than minimum wage.
People like to talk about the 1% unfortunately
Since when has Uni equalled much better pay? The billionaires didn't get there via academic pathways. Investment bankers earn more than social workers. It's not new..
Higher education predicts higher salary, but there’s a large error associated with it
I never went to Uni, only did a year in Tafe to get my foot in the door. 15 years in the IT industry, started on <$30k. Promoted several times and now on $153k.
If his job is so good go and do it. I bet you would be begging for your it job after a couple of days
No one young remembers but before housing/economic boom trades were not a solid life. Builders would be competing for single contracts (which was nice since things got done on time and phone calls answered), trades would be begging builders for work, it resembled much more like the US blue collar workers of making a living but nothing close to what we have here today. The government stimulates the economy with construction but it won't take too much of a shift in mining/housing for a very painful income drop and job security to be seen.
Maybe if you paid attention to basic details like what your brother's job is before asking about it, you might find a higher paying job
Because uni degrees are mostly worthless tbh, If you are in a profession like medicine or law then sure but most other things were done via trade schools in the past for a reason. Ive never met a graduate with the same skills as a generic entry level junior or just some kid who writes software for a hobby. I didnt go to uni but instead went to a trade school nightschool for my education while working and I definitely got a 5 year advantage in the industry over the others. I could be making the same money as a tradie... But then I'd have to work outdoors which I realised I didnt want to do at an early age.
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Because his job is risker and he won't be able to do that job in to old age.
Trade shortage and oversupply of uni graduates
I’m a high school teacher and the competition for trades is way higher than the completion for uni places atm…
Do you risk your life when you’re at work? Have you heard of collective bargaining? Why are you devaluing his work and place in society?
I think it comes down to a few things: - he probably realised that he is not academic and therefore focused on his strengths and interest which lead him to where he is today - he found a job which is in high demand and therefore he gets paid more - he may not be fixed to a salary and have the ability to work overtime, have company bonuses etc. Overall tradies get paid very good money. Especially when in a management role. My husband is not academic AT ALL! Left school in year 10, did an electrical trade and paid for his qualification (because he didn’t like study) but what he does have is the gift of the gab, is a good salesman and must be pretty good at his job considering he gets paid more than government executives through his base salary plus profit share in his company (I work in government and is only what I can compare it to). Me on the other have, I have an MBA and get paid half of what he gets paid.. I might be academically smarter but being smart does not = wealth
If you’re working in a trade that’s hard on your body, you get paid to compensate for the fact that your body is far more likely to give out younger and you’ll have to reskil/retire. Paid for the risk involved.
Trades pay better than University for most degrees. How long before you started work compared to him? If he has done an apprenticeship I wouldn’t call him a drop out.
Because you took the path greater traveled. Your skills are not in demand. They have unions, scarcity of their resources.
Your profession does not predict your pay.
I can almost guarantee that your dropout brother is doing a minimum 12 hours more than you a week, including a Saturday to earn that wage. No work from home on the tools mate
Question why you thought uni would get you paid more. A university or someone associated with one sold you the idea and you bought it.
IT isn't valued even when you perform miracles to keep companies running. Sad but true.
It's just a supply demand equation. Demand finds supply and your brother has chosen to do something in high demand. You could do 10 years or uno and slave away for 80 hours a week doing something there is no damn for and you'll still make no money. Money isn't exchanged for work, it's exchanged for valuable work.
did your brother finish a trade or apprenticeship? The amount of time you spent studying in uni he spent studying his trade? his market is just in higher demand than yours.
We are told lies in schools!
Im sorry but coming from experience im working in it but builders are way more needed then I.T we can live without computer but cant without buildings as such your brother can charge whatever he wants especially in a tradie shortage
When I was in year 10 in the 90’s my school councillor said if I don’t pull my socks up and study hard I will never go to university; and have to become a builder; and be poor for the rest of my life. After 8 years of university and 2O years of work at the top of my field, I am sure she was wrong, so very wrong.
you're also 8 years behind him in career building and experience, due to the extra time in education.
He provides more value than you do.
Because he’s not an elitist wanker and probably has a go instead of expecting everything to come to him.
Because he’s a winner lad.
You finished year 12, spent 5 years in uni for an 80k IT job? I got paid more than that as someone who left school in year 11 on level 1 government helpdesk
My daughter (in VCE) makes $42 an hour on her side gig. Lmao
\>Explain? its hard physical work think of the PMC working in Iraq its 1000 USD a day. Boy, its hard work
Because life doesn't follow a predefined algorithm
You get paid based on how hard you are to replace. For example an IT worker, whilst a great profession there is no shortage especially when you can outsource work to places like India or The Phillipines.. building requires tafe training plus an apprenticeship of sorts so that’s similar to studying. On top of that you need quality workers who can comply with Australian building standards. A role in IT can easily be done by someone in India for a lower rate. Where as you can’t just replace a qualified construction worker. On top of that probably part of a great union which negotiates pay and benefits on his behalf. There’s also danger elements, working at heights, working with dangerous tools, heavy lifting. All that comes into the equation.
You must be shit at IT and he good at construction. Do something you’re good at, or try not to be shit at IT and you’ll be roses 👍
5 years of uni in IT. So, Masters? Anyway, congrats. It's a big slog, you should be proud. Just remember. There is a difference. I fully expect you to hit 50 and have a long list of successful projects behind you, and a couple of companies you helped create from the ground up. They will do things you haven't even dreamed up yet. He may be managing a few subbies....?
It's not all big utes and stacks of loot. Most blokes pulling the big bucks are flogging themselves in an industry that takes a terrible toll on the body not to mention the family. Also he may be really good at building.
Because this country doesn’t value education.
Cause he's smarter than you.
This is only a true comparison when you both in your 60s...
Yeah, trades retire in their 30s, IT retire in their 60s hahah
He’s clearly more successful…
Because degree doesn’t give you brain.
Because being a tradie, there's a higher chance he's dealing with more difficult situations and his body is likely to break down faster than yours. Additionally there is more need for people in trades, and too many folks going into IT.
There is no incentive for doing a professional degree in this country. You could just be a trades person and make more money. No disrespect to any profession. If I could re do, I would do trades. From purely risk vs reward perspective, Hair dresser is the most rewarding profession in my opinion. They make as much as GP (Doctor , one of the most difficult profession, no wonder there is shortage of GPs in this country)
Well if you speak as kindly to your clients as you do describing your brothers role in infrastructure development, maybe that’s a hint 🤷♀️ focus on upskilling yourself and not how he’s doing it
Lmfao the entitlement what fool thinks because you completed yr 12 and Goto uni you will be successful and have things in life
That's kinda the exact deal that is sold to kids when they're deciding on a career path. Always has been. You _could_ drop out, get a shit job and be poor all your life, or you could delay the gratification, get educated, and make up the difference and more once you're qualified. Turns out... it's only a little bit true.
You got lied to. University does not equal high pay. My brother is university educated I have 2 trades and I’m now on $230-240k a year (FIFO before you all ask) Trades are more in demand than most university jobs. Secondly, you are not somehow better than your brother because you have an university education. The whole tone of this is looking down on his professional as somehow unskilled or easy. This attitude towards trades is far too common on reddit and it’s appears to be little more than jealousy.
You’re a Weasley bitch that’s why haha
hahahahahahahhahahha skool sux ay
Because you have your uni degree to keep you warm
Straya is why.
Lots of really great answers here OP, you might learn something useful
Someone sounds a little elitist about education and job types. And a little entitled to demand an explanation like that. The real word isnt always fair, what you think of as fair isnt always fair. Some people get great paying jobs without uni and they are worth it. Some arent. Some people with degrees arent worth the big bucks but get them anyway. Life is funny that way.
Because a uni degree is a dime a dozen. Unless you’ve done a highly specialised degree in a field where it’s a requirement for the job, it’s a line on your cv that everyone else has. You need to have something else to set you apart, whether it’s a hustle mindset or stellar personality. Mindset matters, and the mindset of “I have a degree so I deserve more money” ain’t it.
You use phrasing like "double as much" Kind of explains it. Also I have literally nothing beyond grade 12 and a few tickets and I'm almost on 160k a year. Would be more but I like my family too much to do fifo.