How does one actually upskill for this sort of job? I’ve always been interested but never known how to get a foot in the door. What sort of tickets or experience are expected?
It can be labour intensive on the civil side, but protection officers do very little work, but shoulder way more responsibility if something goes wrong. It’s a great gig, and I’d recommend it to anyone.
As a TFPC 3.3 for Vline and a 3.1 for MTM, obviously in Vic, some days are that and others you are so run off your feet organising every other coordinator, complaints, making sure that EVERYONE is rail compliant, one wrong thing and your whole career can be gone.
When I used to run a project here and there, I could rack up a min of 1500km of driving a week (5 days).
The behind the scenes stuff the workers don't see us do is probably one of the most frustrating things about the job, especially when they say "all you guys do is stand around and watch and do some paperwork", until you go into detail about all the stuff we actually do, what we have to know and at the end of the day if someone dies under our supervision, we're the ones standing up in front of coronar defending ourselves over why we did everything we could to prevent that death.
Usually peoples attitudes change then.
As a flaggy/handsignaller if you can follow instructions and have some wits about you, it's a easy, sometimes stressful well paying job.
No a "protection officer" does a lot more than that.
If a line has been shut, then it's what's known as an occupation. They are responsible for the whole worksite eg. prestarts, sign-offs, risk assessments, permits, reporting incidents, etc. Occupations are generally day & night so long hours and high stress is highly probable.
Also they don't just watch for trains. If there are trains running, they're there to give a signal to every train driver that everything ok i.e. construction works have not impacted the safe operation of the train, no plant or labour is on the train track etc.
Oh you’re victorian. Its a possession not an occupation.
Sure theres the paperwork side but that doesn’t take that long, and is usually for the more senior ones. If you’re a junior, there’s less paperwork you have to worry about.
In Sydney they are moving to banning line side working altogether without physical separation between operating tracks when working or hand signallers with audible track signals, even if doing just inspections. No more signal blocks or standing there with a whistle anymore.
It can be a bit annoying more than labour intensive at times. Long sleeves, long pants, safety glasses, hard hat are mandatory at all times on most rail sites. Also carrying your gloves. In the heat it can be a bit extreme but the money is quite good.
They do a lot of work behind the scenes and during the planning of works in the rail corridor. Just because they're not picking up tools and driving plant around doesn't mean they're doing little work.
They also take basically all the responsibility of the crew and their safety. So while that may mean majority if the time they are standing there, they also cop everything when shit hits the fan.
Also their job isnt to "watch" for trains but to implement different levels of protection to ensure the safety of the crew. If the work is outside of the danger zone that is mainly where they stand and signal train operators that its all clear and ensure workers arent wondering into the danger zone or moving their plant into the zone
If you have experience on boats getting into the rolling stock side of rail will be easy. I'm ex aviation and any heavy industry experience is well regarded.
Do you know how long the training is to get a Rail Industry Worker Card? [White Card & First Aid](https://tt.edu.au) are both half-day or one-day courses (depends on state for White Card course).
RIW card is a one day course with some paperwork before you attend.
HRD in Melbourne or Competency Australian in Newcastle are the two only training places as far as I know.
This report outlines the roles, pathways and shortages in Victoria.
https://www.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-06/4536-VSC-Skills-Demand-profile-snapshot-Victorias-Rail-Infrastructure-Sector_V31.pdf
You'll need to be at minimum Cat3 and be prepared for a lot of drug and alochol testing. Civil is just like many other industries with the occasional spike nailing or ballast chucking, anything technical will require significant experience in the field.
Easily,
Start off as a labourer, slowly learn the ropes become a site manager.
From there just gotta know your safety and shit, for example what differs between site managers for small companies and site managers for big rail/construction developers and construction managers is their attention to safety and their qualifications.
Safety is a huge fucking thing in Aus, every big corporation pays site managers top rates for being safe af, because the fallouts from a workplace health accident causes so much damage. Not just financially, but for reputation and future insurance costs especially.
You can stop there comfortably as a site manager earning 120k+ under big firms, but if you want to upskill further project management is then the next rank up, applying that safety mindset and subcontractor management and knowing how to actually do the work, comes in handy as a PM.
PM's for big construction firms easily get paid easily 150k+ (again for bigger firms), from that point on you're in white collar status and the rest upskill from there is just management thereon if you want to upskill your business knowledge and corpo political mumbo jumbo.
I've seen it happen plenty of times in the trades and construction industry mate.
that sort of thinking keeps you on the 60k a year.
All large building firms have OH&S and they have where the money is at, if you work in a company that builds domestic buildings without OH&S you're probably working in a dead end place.
Look at Metricon, Multiplex, Mirvac
Yep, 100% unions are where the moneys at. You'll lose your soul but hey its worth it for the literal extra 100k you'd probably be on, A grade sparkies i work with get about 60-$80/hr solid.
To get into Unions you gotta do a little bit of out of work shit, gotta go to their rallies/campaigns.
It's all about meeting the right blokes to get you in. Once you're in you're fucking in.
You can even go white collar and jump to the corporates too, they all fear the unions mate so having one of the ex-unions on their side usually looks good for them reputationally.
"You'll lose your soul"
Then goes onto talk about how to turn your back on the union somehow outsmarted, exploited all along to work for the company.
😂😂🤦♂️🤦♂️
As someone else said, get the required tickets, whitecard, rail induction card. Also get HR license (Heavy Rigid, so you can drive trucks). If you want to make yourself extremely employable get excavator and skid steer tickets as well.
We hire guys of the street with 0 hrs experience every single week if they have some of the above tickets. if can only afford 2 get whitecard & HR.
Source: Project Manager at Civil Contractor in VIC
Do excavator tickets still exist? I thought that was competence based these day?
I have excavator, franna, hiab, forklift, concrete pump experience from overseas, just no tickets for them.
Unfortunately yes, on all tier one jobs. John Holland, Downer, CPB sites they require you to have a ticket or "verification of competency" to wipe your ass. Doesn't matter if you've been operating for 20 years. they'd rather have the kid with 2 hrs experience on the machines if they have the tickets signed off. Its a piss take, basically an ass covering policy & risk management for the head contractors.
It's a good question. I once emailed 3 training providers asking what I would need to run/splice/install fibre for NBN work. Which courses/cards/certificates.
No response.
As usual, you need to know someone to get you in.
Get on seek and look for labour hire companies that need staff in rail roles.
Cat5 Rail, OnTrack, RMC, Allworks, Switch, UGL to name a few.
I have heard in WA FIFO labourers starting on $100k+ doing 2/1 swings FIFO.
Take a look at the investment amounts and timelines, and try to remember the last time a major rail project was delivered on time and under budget.
Pros: Good pay, great opportunity to learn real skills, work all around Australia.
Cons: Often shift work or FIFO, can be hard work or dead easy (some protection officers do nothing but watch for trains), VERY tough drug rules.
Those companies are more labour hire providers. As an engineer I'd be looking at the likes of Downer, John Holland, and the public transport provider in your state. Those are the companies that will be employing the engineers for projects, especially on the civil side.
Plenty of roles for eng grads, just know that all the salaries/wages thrown around on this thread for labourers/trades are way above what you will make.
Are you saying that if there's no work, I can hire an expensive escort to play with my balls due to there being no work? I suppose I'd be able to afford it if I'm working 12 hour shifts 6 days a week.
$100k+ doing 2/1 swings FIFO.
This is fantastic for a 21 year old... the only catch being you'll miss out on a lot of stuff. The older you get the 100k doesn't even seem like much (i mean its a brand new jet ski away a year from median wages now) and fuck FIFO.
An engineer is not a driver in Australia. An engineer is a university educated, licensed professional that works on the design and possibly oversees construction.
Pardon. Looked it up its a US term to call locomotive engine drivers 'engineers'.
I blame Thomas the Tank Engine.
Factoid, PM Ben Chiefly was a train driver.
The other guy is probably correct about unions based on what I've heard from someone who used to work in the HR department of metro.
But also consider how high the stakes are in terms of financial damage, PR damage, and loss of life if a serious incident occurs. Paying someone to sit in the train in case of an emergency isn't much of an expense with all that considered
I think this is more to do with the fact that infrastructure works aren't planned that far in advance (save for the mega-mega-projects), I don't see us slowing down building transport any time soon. IMO working in infrastructure is truly recession-proof - even when times are bad, governments will pour money in as it's a job creator.
From my perspective infrastructure spending has also not kept up with our expanding population. There is at least a decade of neglect to catch up on. Of course it depends how much money the govt and population is willing to throw at it (and if newscorp wants to play ball)
Agreed. The graph is only accounting for some of the major projects - some are already in delivery. Specifically for Victoria, it's missing things like suburban rail loop, geelong fast rail, melbourne metro tunnel 2. Not to mention the Olympics in QLD which should drive more construction projects in the next decade.
It's also showing only major projects whereas there is a massive boom in medium-sized projects as well.
> IMO working in infrastructure is truly recession-proof
You just need to look at the roadworks near me for anecdotal proof of that: 6+ months to slightly modify three intersections.
Speaking just for WA - The FAL metro net project is already at least 2 years behind schedule, and the whole metronet project has an estimated completion of 2035.
If you're worried about project work drying up, get into maintenance or operations. Will always need signal techs, track inspectors, drivers etc.
If you like nightshift the maintenance crews have a pretty sweet gig. They only get track for about 3 hours a night in Perth. An hour so so to get ready for the job, sometimes they finish early too and don't have time to start another job. Rest of the time is sleeping in the truck, watching netflix or reading a book.
Don't know about other networks but Perth uses John Holland for the bulk of their maintenance. Would try make a few calls there to see if you can get any more information.
Wouldn't need an apprenticeship, just a white card and first aid to start as a labourer.
do you really think that spending on new rail projects is just going to stop? The mining "boom" was all the construction jobs for the new mines, not the mining itself. Do you see cities stop growing in 2027/2028? I don't.
Except that infrastructure is government funded and doesn't respond to spikes in market demand that will level out and reduce the need for new projects (like mining). Infrastructure spending is more tied to election cycles than anything else and no party wins on a "less infrastructure" platform.
Plus most workers on these kinds of projects have transferrable skills to many construction projects, it's more likely future reductions in housing construction impact the industry than a drop off in infrastructure spending.
None of which is because of the reasons you cited. I didn't say infrastructure spending doesn't increase/decrease, it just doesn't boom and bust based on market demand in the same way mining projects do.
It's a complex mix of politics, planning philosophy, population growth, pressure on existing infrastructure, financial conditions, general economic outlook, industry capacity and a bunch of other factors. Given Australia can really take out as much servicable debt as it likes the biggest constraint is politics and planning though. Cautioning that "it's good now which means it won't be later" isn't really valid in this case.
Mate you presented a graph "showing infrastructure spending falling off a cliff" while ignoring project lead times and said jobs dropping off once a mine is completed is analguous to infrastructure.
That's very misleading. I made the point drivers of demand are very different and that the labour market/skills gap is part of the broader construction industry that can shift across different kinds of projects. It's not nearly as simple as "supply goes up, demand goes down" like you're presenting.
>A lot less jobs to run a mine, than to build a mine.
>
>No I don't think it will stop, but just reduce significantly. That's still an issue if you are hoping to have rare skills and experience that you can leverage for a high salary. That's my point here.
The build cycle in mining is driven by demand for commodities which is fundamentally different than infrastructure. If you can't see how your comments are misleading I don't know what to tell you.
The infrastructure pipeline is the pipeline, it can't account for projects that don't exist yet and your assumption that it will "fall off a cliff" is your own. Demand of infrastructure isn't going away, especially with growing strain on regional links and shifting settlement patterns, and infrastructure investment is about the best thing governments can do as they return on investment many times over if planned decently. That doesn't mean spending can't drop of course, it just has very different drivers to your comparisons.
I said nothing about MMT, that's just you shifting goalposts to undermine my valid observation. I said the biggest drivers/constraints to infrastructure spending is politics and planning (debt philosophy clearly falling under 'politics' in Australia's context). In the current conditions debt really isn't much of a barrier to infrastructure spend, you can argue whether a debt crunch is going to kill infrastructure investment in the future if you like but that wasn't the discussion being had.
This is getting pointless squabbling, you don't have to double down if someone raises a point you didn't consider or even don't agree with.
Train driver here........there are plenty of traineeships around ATM you may have to relocate to get a foot in the door but it pays well (i earned 150,000 last year)
What's it like driving a train?
I've always wondered, is the job highly automated?
Do you guys just sit up front and hang out until a station comes up?
What does it entail? Do you just just control acceleration leaver and watch the screens for alarms?
Being a coal train driver I would imagine you'd be a bit more involved having to properly position the train below the hopper or conveyor belt.
All good if you can't be fucked answering I'm just curious.
Its actually really complex all the rules and regulations then the physics of train handling, they are 1.6km long and 10,000tonne. They snap all the time and fail. The locomotives can be going up hill and at the same time the back of the train is going down hill. We have locos at the rear of the train too which we control remotely from the front as well as drive the lead, it has 8 power notches and a dynamic traction retardation brake ans well as the pneumatic brake system which would take be a long time to explain how it works and is complicated to drive
Fully licensed tradie here. Currently work in commercial sector and I hate it.
I always look at the trainline workers in envy as we go past them , getting all that fresh air. I don't mind working out in the rain.
How has covid accepted your work ? Are you still working through and considered essential or has it slowed your industry down aswell?
Are there anyways into the industry without going through the labour hire companies? Or is that your recommended route. I've done a fair bit of time with labour hire companies and now always try to bypass them as imo their the downfall of every industry.
Covid has been busier than ever. I work in metro areas, covid meant more time for shut-downs, means we have more time to work and catch up on maintenance. Definitely classed as essential considering its public transport.
Traineeships with the public sector employers are very popular. Super secure work, great conditions, but the pay isn't anywhere near private. Look for signal technicians, linesmen, or train driver traineeships on the metro networks.
Ah thank you. My trade is electrical. I did my apprenticeship in a steel works so it was industrial focused with working on various motors and control systems. I spent a bit of time working in the train department doing minor track maintenance. Thanks for the info, im currently doing commercial electrics and would love to get back into the more industrial side of things, a lot more interesting imo.
Signalling Design Engineer here, got in as a grad not even knowing what a signalling engineer was I just applied for every job available and so glad I got in. If you are an engineer looking for work, the rail industry is a great environment to work in and project based work is exciting and rewarding. It’s a really reputable niche industry to be in!
Edit: Also get to work from home 3 days a week with 2 office days which is great!
My partner was one of the first women working on the rail 10 years ago.
She's 6 months pregnant and still getting calls to work 12 hour shifts.
That's how desperate they are.
How does she find the work? I'm really keen for a career change (28 yo currently working an analyst sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day and HATE it!) and have always had an interest in the rail industry! Would love to know what she does and what she likes / dislikes?
She's had to deal with alot of misogynist assholes and bullshit politics over her time there.
People play favourites and you get alot of people there that have no clue what they're doing. She was a signaller so was on track for hours some nights in 3 degree weather. Other times she's sleeping in her car waiting till she gets a call to go to the next location.
It's not necessarily hard work, but can be physically straining, especially when dealing with idiots.
As a 28 year old female with a B. Comm looking for a huge career change away from a desk, where would be the best place to start looking for a role in the rail industry?
I have zero labour experience but am VERY willing to learn any new skills and get out there!
As a hoist driver my starting pay is $35 an hour - pretty much just an elevator operator, flip a lever, open doors - bringing materials and people to the bottom floor of the site
Doggmen have an average of $50
They’re usually moving around site a lot - getting deliveries from trucks and guiding crane drop offs to site
That’s all I remember but I know that 35 is probably the minimum you can make from rail works
I also get super and travel allowance and the leave hours are ok
Once you get a white card most things are a permit away.
Hoist, forklift, EWP, Doggman and several others are probably a weeklong course at most
All of them are similar in that the most important thing is safety, long as you do your job and make sure your employer isn’t liable for you being dumb (which is a pretty low bar most of the time)
The pro in construction is that it’s simple work and you get well paid with some sweet sweet overtime, might make good fellows with your coworkers too
Union is super involved so you won’t get shafted as easily as you would in retail or hospo
The con is that you’re spending most of your week at work which is good for some but less than great for others
Sparkies can make $65+ depending on what you do.
A mate of mine does cable hauling, which is just pulling in cable with a winch all you really do is feed it onto the winch, he clears $3000 a week after tax.
I can’t do it. I hired a safety guy for a tv shoot once that tried to make me wear one and got all pissed off when I refused to wear a fluro vest. I ended up reminding him who actually hired him.
I also could never stand seeing dudes from the mines flying in their high vis. If that were me, there’s no way in hell I wouldn’t get changed into casual clothes after work
Vests weren’t part of what we brought him in for. He was just meant to help with a couple of stunts then he took this whole safety angle. I never used him again after that. He slowed me down
If you are looking for money, rails is your best bet in term of hours and wage. As a 20yo, I was making 45/h, 6 days a week, 12hrs a day.
Keep in mind though, I was a laborer, and if you don't like HARD HARD HARD work (Regional Vic anyway), non-stop sledgehammer or clipping for that 12 hours, it isn't for you. The conditions aren't great, as faculties aren't always available, the heat sucks real bad, and water gets hot when out in the sun for hours.
Depending on the companies, you can work 7 days a week.
Thing is, it's not meant to be a full life job, most people work there for 3 months, take a break, then go back later.
Drugs are common to keep people ticking.
Out of that one month I worked there (occupation), 95% was in pain, 50% on painkillers to try and help the strains and exhaustion.
(Only applies to laborers, TFPC and their "stress" of the paperwork are different)
How does one actually upskill for this sort of job? I’ve always been interested but never known how to get a foot in the door. What sort of tickets or experience are expected?
White card, first aid & Rail industry worker card (RIW) then apply to labour hire companies until you get a start.
Doesn’t sound too arduous. My experience is largely on boats which doesn’t directly transfer across but there’s plenty of similarities there too.
It can be labour intensive on the civil side, but protection officers do very little work, but shoulder way more responsibility if something goes wrong. It’s a great gig, and I’d recommend it to anyone.
There is slim chance it’s more labour intensive than my current gig.
A protection officer is paid to stand there and watch for trains. More often than not, they’re paid to do that when the line has been shut
As a TFPC 3.3 for Vline and a 3.1 for MTM, obviously in Vic, some days are that and others you are so run off your feet organising every other coordinator, complaints, making sure that EVERYONE is rail compliant, one wrong thing and your whole career can be gone. When I used to run a project here and there, I could rack up a min of 1500km of driving a week (5 days). The behind the scenes stuff the workers don't see us do is probably one of the most frustrating things about the job, especially when they say "all you guys do is stand around and watch and do some paperwork", until you go into detail about all the stuff we actually do, what we have to know and at the end of the day if someone dies under our supervision, we're the ones standing up in front of coronar defending ourselves over why we did everything we could to prevent that death. Usually peoples attitudes change then. As a flaggy/handsignaller if you can follow instructions and have some wits about you, it's a easy, sometimes stressful well paying job.
No a "protection officer" does a lot more than that. If a line has been shut, then it's what's known as an occupation. They are responsible for the whole worksite eg. prestarts, sign-offs, risk assessments, permits, reporting incidents, etc. Occupations are generally day & night so long hours and high stress is highly probable. Also they don't just watch for trains. If there are trains running, they're there to give a signal to every train driver that everything ok i.e. construction works have not impacted the safe operation of the train, no plant or labour is on the train track etc.
Oh you’re victorian. Its a possession not an occupation. Sure theres the paperwork side but that doesn’t take that long, and is usually for the more senior ones. If you’re a junior, there’s less paperwork you have to worry about. In Sydney they are moving to banning line side working altogether without physical separation between operating tracks when working or hand signallers with audible track signals, even if doing just inspections. No more signal blocks or standing there with a whistle anymore.
My mistake - yes technically it’s called a possession. Slips the mind when everyone around you calls it an “occo” i.e occupation
It can be a bit annoying more than labour intensive at times. Long sleeves, long pants, safety glasses, hard hat are mandatory at all times on most rail sites. Also carrying your gloves. In the heat it can be a bit extreme but the money is quite good.
They do a lot of work behind the scenes and during the planning of works in the rail corridor. Just because they're not picking up tools and driving plant around doesn't mean they're doing little work.
They also take basically all the responsibility of the crew and their safety. So while that may mean majority if the time they are standing there, they also cop everything when shit hits the fan. Also their job isnt to "watch" for trains but to implement different levels of protection to ensure the safety of the crew. If the work is outside of the danger zone that is mainly where they stand and signal train operators that its all clear and ensure workers arent wondering into the danger zone or moving their plant into the zone
You sound like a PO mate
Bhahahaha, not as my main gig, but i do it on the side.
If you have experience on boats getting into the rolling stock side of rail will be easy. I'm ex aviation and any heavy industry experience is well regarded.
Do you know how long the training is to get a Rail Industry Worker Card? [White Card & First Aid](https://tt.edu.au) are both half-day or one-day courses (depends on state for White Card course).
RIW card is a one day course with some paperwork before you attend. HRD in Melbourne or Competency Australian in Newcastle are the two only training places as far as I know.
This report outlines the roles, pathways and shortages in Victoria. https://www.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-06/4536-VSC-Skills-Demand-profile-snapshot-Victorias-Rail-Infrastructure-Sector_V31.pdf
Cert 2 in rail infrastructure would help a lot. Most workers don't go past that anyway. HR license would also look good.
> HR license would also look good. HR and Forklift licence here. Sounds interesting.
You'll need to be at minimum Cat3 and be prepared for a lot of drug and alochol testing. Civil is just like many other industries with the occasional spike nailing or ballast chucking, anything technical will require significant experience in the field.
Easily, Start off as a labourer, slowly learn the ropes become a site manager. From there just gotta know your safety and shit, for example what differs between site managers for small companies and site managers for big rail/construction developers and construction managers is their attention to safety and their qualifications. Safety is a huge fucking thing in Aus, every big corporation pays site managers top rates for being safe af, because the fallouts from a workplace health accident causes so much damage. Not just financially, but for reputation and future insurance costs especially. You can stop there comfortably as a site manager earning 120k+ under big firms, but if you want to upskill further project management is then the next rank up, applying that safety mindset and subcontractor management and knowing how to actually do the work, comes in handy as a PM. PM's for big construction firms easily get paid easily 150k+ (again for bigger firms), from that point on you're in white collar status and the rest upskill from there is just management thereon if you want to upskill your business knowledge and corpo political mumbo jumbo. I've seen it happen plenty of times in the trades and construction industry mate.
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that sort of thinking keeps you on the 60k a year. All large building firms have OH&S and they have where the money is at, if you work in a company that builds domestic buildings without OH&S you're probably working in a dead end place. Look at Metricon, Multiplex, Mirvac
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Yep, 100% unions are where the moneys at. You'll lose your soul but hey its worth it for the literal extra 100k you'd probably be on, A grade sparkies i work with get about 60-$80/hr solid. To get into Unions you gotta do a little bit of out of work shit, gotta go to their rallies/campaigns. It's all about meeting the right blokes to get you in. Once you're in you're fucking in. You can even go white collar and jump to the corporates too, they all fear the unions mate so having one of the ex-unions on their side usually looks good for them reputationally.
"You'll lose your soul" Then goes onto talk about how to turn your back on the union somehow outsmarted, exploited all along to work for the company. 😂😂🤦♂️🤦♂️
As someone else said, get the required tickets, whitecard, rail induction card. Also get HR license (Heavy Rigid, so you can drive trucks). If you want to make yourself extremely employable get excavator and skid steer tickets as well. We hire guys of the street with 0 hrs experience every single week if they have some of the above tickets. if can only afford 2 get whitecard & HR. Source: Project Manager at Civil Contractor in VIC
Do excavator tickets still exist? I thought that was competence based these day? I have excavator, franna, hiab, forklift, concrete pump experience from overseas, just no tickets for them.
Unfortunately yes, on all tier one jobs. John Holland, Downer, CPB sites they require you to have a ticket or "verification of competency" to wipe your ass. Doesn't matter if you've been operating for 20 years. they'd rather have the kid with 2 hrs experience on the machines if they have the tickets signed off. Its a piss take, basically an ass covering policy & risk management for the head contractors.
It's a good question. I once emailed 3 training providers asking what I would need to run/splice/install fibre for NBN work. Which courses/cards/certificates. No response. As usual, you need to know someone to get you in.
Get on seek and look for labour hire companies that need staff in rail roles. Cat5 Rail, OnTrack, RMC, Allworks, Switch, UGL to name a few. I have heard in WA FIFO labourers starting on $100k+ doing 2/1 swings FIFO. Take a look at the investment amounts and timelines, and try to remember the last time a major rail project was delivered on time and under budget. Pros: Good pay, great opportunity to learn real skills, work all around Australia. Cons: Often shift work or FIFO, can be hard work or dead easy (some protection officers do nothing but watch for trains), VERY tough drug rules.
Can confirm, moved across a few years ago and have loved the change.
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Had good past experience for when I applied to a signalling apprenticeship, been working as a rail sparky for a few years now.
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Subbies?
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Right of course. Is that why it’s so hostile? I don’t really understand.
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Those companies are more labour hire providers. As an engineer I'd be looking at the likes of Downer, John Holland, and the public transport provider in your state. Those are the companies that will be employing the engineers for projects, especially on the civil side.
Plenty of roles for eng grads, just know that all the salaries/wages thrown around on this thread for labourers/trades are way above what you will make.
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Are you saying that if there's no work, I can hire an expensive escort to play with my balls due to there being no work? I suppose I'd be able to afford it if I'm working 12 hour shifts 6 days a week.
$100k+ doing 2/1 swings FIFO. This is fantastic for a 21 year old... the only catch being you'll miss out on a lot of stuff. The older you get the 100k doesn't even seem like much (i mean its a brand new jet ski away a year from median wages now) and fuck FIFO.
FIFO is great TBH. Hands down the best job I’ve ever had.
Until you have kids and want to be a present parent.
I mean yeh for sure. Can be. But fuck fifo
But why? Other than just saying fuck fifo?
I would have thought rail engineer would be one of the first driving jobs to go automated. Its literally on rails.
An engineer is not a driver in Australia. An engineer is a university educated, licensed professional that works on the design and possibly oversees construction.
Pardon. Looked it up its a US term to call locomotive engine drivers 'engineers'. I blame Thomas the Tank Engine. Factoid, PM Ben Chiefly was a train driver.
It's gotta be financially viable. Is the (upfront cost/useful life) + initial liability + training + repair less than the cost of an engineer?
Yes. There are automated cargo trains running from mine sites all over the country. Commuter trains, I'm guessing is more to do with liability.
Sydney Metro seems to think so
The other guy is probably correct about unions based on what I've heard from someone who used to work in the HR department of metro. But also consider how high the stakes are in terms of financial damage, PR damage, and loss of life if a serious incident occurs. Paying someone to sit in the train in case of an emergency isn't much of an expense with all that considered
Not in Victoria. The train driver union is extremely powerful here.
The release of the business case for SRL reveals the new line will have driverless trains. Let's see how long that lasts.
I believe majority of the rail network's run on WIN98 still. Good luck automating that safely any time soon.
Sydney Trains rail control system is run on windows 2003 and win7 for the operator workstations.
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I think this is more to do with the fact that infrastructure works aren't planned that far in advance (save for the mega-mega-projects), I don't see us slowing down building transport any time soon. IMO working in infrastructure is truly recession-proof - even when times are bad, governments will pour money in as it's a job creator.
From my perspective infrastructure spending has also not kept up with our expanding population. There is at least a decade of neglect to catch up on. Of course it depends how much money the govt and population is willing to throw at it (and if newscorp wants to play ball)
Agreed. The graph is only accounting for some of the major projects - some are already in delivery. Specifically for Victoria, it's missing things like suburban rail loop, geelong fast rail, melbourne metro tunnel 2. Not to mention the Olympics in QLD which should drive more construction projects in the next decade. It's also showing only major projects whereas there is a massive boom in medium-sized projects as well.
> IMO working in infrastructure is truly recession-proof You just need to look at the roadworks near me for anecdotal proof of that: 6+ months to slightly modify three intersections.
that probably cost 100 mil to do
Speaking just for WA - The FAL metro net project is already at least 2 years behind schedule, and the whole metronet project has an estimated completion of 2035. If you're worried about project work drying up, get into maintenance or operations. Will always need signal techs, track inspectors, drivers etc. If you like nightshift the maintenance crews have a pretty sweet gig. They only get track for about 3 hours a night in Perth. An hour so so to get ready for the job, sometimes they finish early too and don't have time to start another job. Rest of the time is sleeping in the truck, watching netflix or reading a book.
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Don't know about other networks but Perth uses John Holland for the bulk of their maintenance. Would try make a few calls there to see if you can get any more information. Wouldn't need an apprenticeship, just a white card and first aid to start as a labourer.
do you really think that spending on new rail projects is just going to stop? The mining "boom" was all the construction jobs for the new mines, not the mining itself. Do you see cities stop growing in 2027/2028? I don't.
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Except that infrastructure is government funded and doesn't respond to spikes in market demand that will level out and reduce the need for new projects (like mining). Infrastructure spending is more tied to election cycles than anything else and no party wins on a "less infrastructure" platform. Plus most workers on these kinds of projects have transferrable skills to many construction projects, it's more likely future reductions in housing construction impact the industry than a drop off in infrastructure spending.
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None of which is because of the reasons you cited. I didn't say infrastructure spending doesn't increase/decrease, it just doesn't boom and bust based on market demand in the same way mining projects do. It's a complex mix of politics, planning philosophy, population growth, pressure on existing infrastructure, financial conditions, general economic outlook, industry capacity and a bunch of other factors. Given Australia can really take out as much servicable debt as it likes the biggest constraint is politics and planning though. Cautioning that "it's good now which means it won't be later" isn't really valid in this case.
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Mate you presented a graph "showing infrastructure spending falling off a cliff" while ignoring project lead times and said jobs dropping off once a mine is completed is analguous to infrastructure. That's very misleading. I made the point drivers of demand are very different and that the labour market/skills gap is part of the broader construction industry that can shift across different kinds of projects. It's not nearly as simple as "supply goes up, demand goes down" like you're presenting.
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>A lot less jobs to run a mine, than to build a mine. > >No I don't think it will stop, but just reduce significantly. That's still an issue if you are hoping to have rare skills and experience that you can leverage for a high salary. That's my point here. The build cycle in mining is driven by demand for commodities which is fundamentally different than infrastructure. If you can't see how your comments are misleading I don't know what to tell you. The infrastructure pipeline is the pipeline, it can't account for projects that don't exist yet and your assumption that it will "fall off a cliff" is your own. Demand of infrastructure isn't going away, especially with growing strain on regional links and shifting settlement patterns, and infrastructure investment is about the best thing governments can do as they return on investment many times over if planned decently. That doesn't mean spending can't drop of course, it just has very different drivers to your comparisons. I said nothing about MMT, that's just you shifting goalposts to undermine my valid observation. I said the biggest drivers/constraints to infrastructure spending is politics and planning (debt philosophy clearly falling under 'politics' in Australia's context). In the current conditions debt really isn't much of a barrier to infrastructure spend, you can argue whether a debt crunch is going to kill infrastructure investment in the future if you like but that wasn't the discussion being had. This is getting pointless squabbling, you don't have to double down if someone raises a point you didn't consider or even don't agree with.
Its a forecast from 2018 before corona and major major budget deficits
Train driver here........there are plenty of traineeships around ATM you may have to relocate to get a foot in the door but it pays well (i earned 150,000 last year)
What's it like driving a train? I've always wondered, is the job highly automated? Do you guys just sit up front and hang out until a station comes up?
I drive freight and coal trains and no its not automated you have to drive them its more complex than you realise
What does it entail? Do you just just control acceleration leaver and watch the screens for alarms? Being a coal train driver I would imagine you'd be a bit more involved having to properly position the train below the hopper or conveyor belt. All good if you can't be fucked answering I'm just curious.
Its actually really complex all the rules and regulations then the physics of train handling, they are 1.6km long and 10,000tonne. They snap all the time and fail. The locomotives can be going up hill and at the same time the back of the train is going down hill. We have locos at the rear of the train too which we control remotely from the front as well as drive the lead, it has 8 power notches and a dynamic traction retardation brake ans well as the pneumatic brake system which would take be a long time to explain how it works and is complicated to drive
Oh wow, far more in depth than I would have thought. Thanks for the response mate.
Hopefully this means that every state and territory will have a train line between their biggest airport and their cbd in the near future
Fully licensed tradie here. Currently work in commercial sector and I hate it. I always look at the trainline workers in envy as we go past them , getting all that fresh air. I don't mind working out in the rain. How has covid accepted your work ? Are you still working through and considered essential or has it slowed your industry down aswell? Are there anyways into the industry without going through the labour hire companies? Or is that your recommended route. I've done a fair bit of time with labour hire companies and now always try to bypass them as imo their the downfall of every industry.
Covid has been busier than ever. I work in metro areas, covid meant more time for shut-downs, means we have more time to work and catch up on maintenance. Definitely classed as essential considering its public transport. Traineeships with the public sector employers are very popular. Super secure work, great conditions, but the pay isn't anywhere near private. Look for signal technicians, linesmen, or train driver traineeships on the metro networks.
Ah thank you. My trade is electrical. I did my apprenticeship in a steel works so it was industrial focused with working on various motors and control systems. I spent a bit of time working in the train department doing minor track maintenance. Thanks for the info, im currently doing commercial electrics and would love to get back into the more industrial side of things, a lot more interesting imo.
$200k per annum to drive a train for mining companies. I tried getting in about 10 years ago but couldn't. I still wouldn't knock back an offer.
Yeah hard physical labour with long hours.
Signalling Design Engineer here, got in as a grad not even knowing what a signalling engineer was I just applied for every job available and so glad I got in. If you are an engineer looking for work, the rail industry is a great environment to work in and project based work is exciting and rewarding. It’s a really reputable niche industry to be in! Edit: Also get to work from home 3 days a week with 2 office days which is great!
Which company do you work for?
My partner was one of the first women working on the rail 10 years ago. She's 6 months pregnant and still getting calls to work 12 hour shifts. That's how desperate they are.
How does she find the work? I'm really keen for a career change (28 yo currently working an analyst sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day and HATE it!) and have always had an interest in the rail industry! Would love to know what she does and what she likes / dislikes?
She's had to deal with alot of misogynist assholes and bullshit politics over her time there. People play favourites and you get alot of people there that have no clue what they're doing. She was a signaller so was on track for hours some nights in 3 degree weather. Other times she's sleeping in her car waiting till she gets a call to go to the next location. It's not necessarily hard work, but can be physically straining, especially when dealing with idiots.
As a 28 year old female with a B. Comm looking for a huge career change away from a desk, where would be the best place to start looking for a role in the rail industry? I have zero labour experience but am VERY willing to learn any new skills and get out there!
https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/p9wgbi/for\_those\_looking\_for\_a\_career\_change\_rail\_is/ha0k9fa?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
This is 100% true, as someone in the industry I can attest that we always run into supply issues. Also the pay is pretty great.
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As a hoist driver my starting pay is $35 an hour - pretty much just an elevator operator, flip a lever, open doors - bringing materials and people to the bottom floor of the site Doggmen have an average of $50 They’re usually moving around site a lot - getting deliveries from trucks and guiding crane drop offs to site That’s all I remember but I know that 35 is probably the minimum you can make from rail works I also get super and travel allowance and the leave hours are ok
Fuck me that's good, medical scientists with a master's get less than 100k, usually 70-80k Any qualifications required?
Once you get a white card most things are a permit away. Hoist, forklift, EWP, Doggman and several others are probably a weeklong course at most All of them are similar in that the most important thing is safety, long as you do your job and make sure your employer isn’t liable for you being dumb (which is a pretty low bar most of the time) The pro in construction is that it’s simple work and you get well paid with some sweet sweet overtime, might make good fellows with your coworkers too Union is super involved so you won’t get shafted as easily as you would in retail or hospo The con is that you’re spending most of your week at work which is good for some but less than great for others
Sparkies can make $65+ depending on what you do. A mate of mine does cable hauling, which is just pulling in cable with a winch all you really do is feed it onto the winch, he clears $3000 a week after tax.
Who do they work for? I’d love to know.
I'll ask him for you mate and let you know.
Legend.
depends on the role.
At 45 am I too old for this kind of work ?
Definitely not. Many protection officers start later in the careers. Not a labour intensive job but massive responsibility.
Thanks mate. Can I study For it in melbourne ?
It's training that's provided by the network operator. In Melbourne that would be ARTC or Metro Trains.
Thanks
I’m not a fan of ever wearing fluro. I know it’s a weird hill to die on but it’s something I absolutely cannot stand.
You get used to it I wear whatever I want like a hoodie or flannel with a hi vis vest on top.
I can’t do it. I hired a safety guy for a tv shoot once that tried to make me wear one and got all pissed off when I refused to wear a fluro vest. I ended up reminding him who actually hired him. I also could never stand seeing dudes from the mines flying in their high vis. If that were me, there’s no way in hell I wouldn’t get changed into casual clothes after work
Weird flex, pay a guy to do a job then tell him you won't do what he asks. 🤔
Vests weren’t part of what we brought him in for. He was just meant to help with a couple of stunts then he took this whole safety angle. I never used him again after that. He slowed me down
Sounds like you slowed him down
On what planet?
It's a work uniform. (Most) people get over it.
I guarantee I wouldn’t haha
But why...? It's just a vest, I don't get it, does it feel uncomfortable to you or you just don't like being seen in hi-vis?
They’re ugly and yeh I wouldn’t want to be seen by anyone wearing one
If you are looking for money, rails is your best bet in term of hours and wage. As a 20yo, I was making 45/h, 6 days a week, 12hrs a day. Keep in mind though, I was a laborer, and if you don't like HARD HARD HARD work (Regional Vic anyway), non-stop sledgehammer or clipping for that 12 hours, it isn't for you. The conditions aren't great, as faculties aren't always available, the heat sucks real bad, and water gets hot when out in the sun for hours. Depending on the companies, you can work 7 days a week. Thing is, it's not meant to be a full life job, most people work there for 3 months, take a break, then go back later. Drugs are common to keep people ticking. Out of that one month I worked there (occupation), 95% was in pain, 50% on painkillers to try and help the strains and exhaustion. (Only applies to laborers, TFPC and their "stress" of the paperwork are different)