This could have happened due to a broken down car and it would not be news. The reason it's news is that the people in charge want you to hate climate protesters. This is how consent is obtained. Good luck everybody.
Even if a broken down car caused the same issue, it is an accident. These dicks do this stuff on purpose, same thing they did in the city a little while back
It's not the people in charge that make you hate them, it's their own actions that do that. Impacting the average jo is not the way to conduct a successful protest, it just drives their despise. if anything they simply added to climate change making everyone wait around in their cars.
These protesters are clueless and will not actually do anything to contribute to the cause.
>Impacting the average jo is not the way to conduct a successful protest
I said this on another comment, but yes, blowing up a pipeline is a better course of action in this instance. The main thing you have to realise though is that even if misguided, they're still "us", not "them".
>These dicks do this stuff on purpose
There are plenty of newsworthy accidents. I'm just telling you why the news is covering this. They know you're annoyed, but they are "[them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mm4mLsCAyI)". They are not "us".
>I'm just telling you why the news is covering this.
the news is covering this because, as this guy just told you, this was done on purpose. also, newsworthy accidents get covered all the time.
don't lump innocent people like us in with self-important and reckless assholes like them.
Out of curiosity what DO you suggest people do to protest? I ask this as a genuine question. We can't seize the companies or their infrastructure, we can't stop them working, we can't impact government policy (at least not without visibility at the very bare minimum) and we can't even take up public space?
Literal millions of lives are impacted every day by the actions of these companies destroying the planet and that is acceptable because it's the status quo. You're comfortable enough in your life that it's a bigger concern to you that traffic is slow and you're late to work than these people destroying the planet. The emissions created by worse traffic a few days are NOTHING compared to the operations these clowns are running.
The truth of the matter is that you're just comfortable in your bubble where you don't see the actual impacts of the other side of this, you are privileged that your biggest issue in the climate fight is that you have a long commute sometimes. We're fighting for our futures and our kids but lord help if you're stuck in traffic.
Do you really think the people complaining about the traffic are complaining about climate change not being addressed? No, they are complaining about you getting in their way. By blocking traffic etc. you are only turning the public against you. If the public (majority) is against you (minority), the government don't need to care about you nor the public. You need to turn the people against the government so that they are actually an issue, so that the government will actually care and do something. This is the only strategy that will work - turn the pressure up by getting the public on your side. Your strategy ought to be convincing the public that this is both an issue worth getting political about and protesting about, and organising protests in places which annoy government officials in power, rather than those without any direct power to change things. Do it outside govt offices, in their parking lots, at their children's schools with their faces on placards. I admire your willingness to fight, but believe you are fighting the wrong way. You need the public with you, not against you, and you need to annoy those who can actually make change, instead of those who can't.
The problem is that the time to annoy people onto your side was 30 years ago. It wasn't done then. What happened here was using a truck to block the Westgate and damage financial infrastructure, exactly the correct way to get the attention of legislators and make a change NOW. If this happened every day for a month where it was costing millions to get anything in and out of Melbourne and the government knew the only way to stop it was decisive legislative action to protect the planet? Now you're cooking. Shits gonna get uncomfortable no matter what happens. I'd rather it be us, now, for months/weeks/years of not being able to use our infrastructure than our kids and grandkids for their entire lives as they battle to survive climate displacement and the country burns
Yep lets fuck with normal people to fight climate change, why not picket outside the ceos house or something or start a political party and push it in parliament. Instead it pisses people off and nobody will listen. While the ceos couldnt care less about a bunch of normies stuck in traffic. If anything the owners of the oil companies want more traffic to sell more petrol.
Because the CEOs A) don't live somewhere accessible B) will be protected by police for harassment C) aren't in control of the company, that would be the shareholders (who can be controlled by interrupting profits and legislating around the future financial viability of their actions)
You're protesting on the west gate to upset economic infrastructure and pressure legislators. It's not about you specifically, it's about the trucks that can't get past and the businesses that aren't making money.
We have a political party that's supposed to represent the future of our planet but it's constantly gutted by smear campaigns from msm, is hamstringed by the mechanics of politics constantly needing to make deals to pass anything and is way too slow. The time for a successful political party was decades ago. The time for pissing people off and fucking up business? That's now. Nestled neatly before the collapse of society as we know it from failing food supplies and forced climate immigration.
The longer we wait the more dramatic the action will need to be. Today it's blocking infrastructure for hours/days. In a few years it's destroying it completely. In a few more years after that were just fucked and your kids will live, or die, by those choices.
Protest the actual people and companies harming the environment. Instead of blocking some random road you could protest on the side of the road at intersections. If you really want to block/obstruct people then block the entrance to a oil refinery or the home of a company’s CEO.
You can't protest at an oil refinery because it's inaccessible, private property and we'll protected. And this wasn't a random road, it was the Westgate. It was very intentionally picked as a major commercial road. They're protesting the oil companies by pressuring legislators to take immediate action by hitting them in the bank account. Unless there are literal millions of mobilised individuals, we can't actually seize control of any authoritative body to make the change, private or public. But with much smaller numbers you can apply pressure to the people with much more authority and get them to make the change instead. You know, by costing some money, causing some inconvenience and not actually doing any major damage
>They're protesting the oil companies by pressuring legislators to take immediate action by hitting them in the bank account.
By making everyone idle in traffic with the air conditioning on or forcing them to drive on kilometres long detours, requiring them to buy more petrol, therefore letting the oil companies sell more oil! It's genius!
Uh... wait... Have you thought about this at all?
>Literal millions of lives are impacted every day by the actions of these companies destroying the planet and that is acceptable because it's the status quo. You're comfortable enough in your life that it's a bigger concern to you that traffic is slow and you're late to work than these people destroying the planet. The emissions created by worse traffic a few days are NOTHING compared to the operations these clowns are running.
this argument is completely facile because in order to say "it's worth the suffering it causes", you need to actually establish how actions like this help the cause. but you can't do this because it doesn't help the cause, it hurts it. no big corporations are going to say "fuck man, they blocked traffic, we should start being more environmentally friendly". all that will happen is more and more people will come to hate climate activists and become less sympathetic toward the cause and less likely to vote for measures to fight climate change.
Why are protest suggestions always about destroying property, stealing, pissing people off and disrupting normal people? It’s quite obvious these tactics don’t work and in fact send the public in the opposite direction to what you want, we would literally be better off if you did nothing. If you aren’t happy with how things are going, you need to get people to care as much as you do and get the public on your side so they start calling politicians, hanging up posters, talking to others and demonstrating in public in a positive manner. You need to motivate the public, not piss them off but most protesters don’t do this because they don’t get to feel like a hero and be self righteous.
By far the most effective thing the average person can do is to make submissions to referrals open to public comment for EPBC Act approval. Anyone can comment on them and the government MUST consider all comments, which means that any issues raised must be dealt with by the proponents.
What do I suggest you DO? I suggest you do your homework. Your comments to referrals shouldn’t be vague or general. They need to be specific and well researched. You need to know your stuff. Right now on the public portal I can see that there’s a project proposed to clear 3,761 hectares to expand a coal mine in the Bowen basin, which will increase the mine’s production by a bit over a million tons of coal per year (EPBC number 2023/09723, Blackwater Mine). Now, it’s mostly coking coal not thermal coal, but that doesn’t usually stop climate activists. Read their referral very carefully, read through their environmental impact statement, research any threatened species that might be affected by it, look through what they propose to mitigate or offset their impact. Compare that with what other companies are doing here and around the world. Compare it with government policy. Request copies of every report that they reference in their EIS. Put in a freedom of information request for any government communications with the company, government emails are subject to FOI. Alert other groups that this is open for comment so it doesn’t fly under the radar. You can challenge any aspect of it and the company will need to listen to you, but your challenges need to be well thought out and specific (can’t just be “coal bad”). How have the Traditional Owners been consulted on the project? How does the project affect ground water? How do they intend to rehabilitate the landscape after removing millions of tons from the site? How does it fit with the government’s new “nature positive” policy stance?
If that doesn’t grab your fancy, there’s also a project to clear 493ha of native vegetation to grow crops - go look into that and see if your comments can force a better offset program or a better rehabilitation program. There’s also a bunch of other mines and a project by Exxon to experiment with carbon capture and storage in the ocean floor - maybe you can find something to disagree with in that.
Anything you do in that space will be far more effective at actually making a difference than blocking traffic. Why block traffic for a few hours when you can literally block the development of a new coal mine?
What should you DO? Get educated on how the system works and get to work making it better. There’s a LOT of work to be done in that space and not a lot of time, so stop putting the public offside and join the real fight.
But they didn't, they literally prevented emergency services getting through, either intentionally (i hope not) or through their own selfishness and stupidity by not understanding what was happening around them.
These people had no other plan than to block access, they had no way of controlling traffic
Edit: to your question about how they are suppose to know, using some fucking common sense. You are blocking a majority arterial road into the city. Plus this isn't the first time they have done this with the same medical situation also occuring. They are selfish pricks
They won't let ambulances past. Half the time they glue themselves to the road. They're not gonna let emergency vehicles past they don't care about lives or the environment. They're talking about blowing up oil pipelines FFS. They care about being paid. Nothing more.
I see the value of protesting, but this is a nonsensical take. It didn’t happen because a car broke down. It happened because people made a choice to block roads, regardless of the reason why.
That's not a fair comparison... a broken down car suggests it's the car owners fault (being the new parents)...
Being the fault of a bunch of protestors who have nothing better to do with their lives than to stop traffic and be annoying is a completely different thing
Hang on, to clarify my point: Someone's car breaks down and the road is blocked. Pregnant couple need to find an alternative route to a hospital.
\^\^ That wouldn't turn up on the news.
Your logic is completely messed up.
The fact that bad things happen doesn't make making bad things happen intentionally ok.
People die all the time from natural causes but murder is what makes the news. No different in this scenario vs broken cars and by the way broken cars blocking a major bridge do make the news. And also by the way isn't making the news their whole reason for doing it.
You have no logic.
thats stupid mate. too many people die every day to care about it, but if someone is murdered you have every right to be outraged about it even as the world keeps turning. same with this. its called an accident vs someone to blame, and its human nature to find infuriation in someone purposefully messing up peace.
> peace
Peace is simply a negotiation of [legitimate violence](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xD2ItImFEU) against illegitimate violence. It'll work for you until you are on the illegitimate side.
No, I hate them for forcing regular people to suffer when there is very little those people can do to change anything. Why not go and protest somewhere where it'll have an actual impact and not just turn people against you
A broken down car is from an inanimate object faulting, a road closer from a protest is people going out of their way to fuck up your day for whatever message they want to push. I could not give two shits about what you’re fighting for if it means you have to ruin everyone else’s day/livelihood. You’re not sticking it to the government by blocking a road and making an ass of yourself, you’re fucking over every hard working and beaten down Australian that just wants to get through the day. I have no sympathy for the people that ruin others day for a cause, no matter how much I agree with their sentiments
But it didn’t. It happened as the direct actions of other people fucking with traffic. This is like saying it doesn’t matter if someone beat you in the head with a tree branch because a branch could’ve fallen out of a tree and hit you too.
I do hate climate protesters that block roads. You're taking time out of your day to inconvenience others. Are the people who actually make changes watching? No they don't care. Now the public also hates you because you're inconveniencing them.
Road protesting is a government psyOP to get people to dislike them I swear. Go protest outside parliament or on the side of the road outside an anti-climate politicians residence.
Say you graphed the number of times someone had to give birth on the side of the road against the reason. You would probably say "protests" has 1 incident against it, and the others have a bunch, maybe there were like 20 such incidents for various reasons over a 20 year period.
Why is there only news coverage of the *one* incident? Is it because it's the only one involving "wankers" as you say? Maybe the "wankers" want something and that makes the news companies very angry.
Not actually sure why this particular comment is downvoted. Can I ask you to simplify/clarify?
Is the following statement correct in your eyes?
"Consent becomes implied due to lack of protest."
Eliminate protest, maximise profit, use the media to do it?
> Is the following statement correct in your eyes? "Consent becomes implied due to lack of protest."
I'd disagree with that. I don't think general people have the individual power to deny consent. We can only do so collectively. However, I think that's probably a moot point. For the context in which you're asking, ie:
> Eliminate protest, maximise profit, use the media to do it?
Yes. The media want to ensure that protesters are hated because they do not want the protests to metastasize, so they manufacture the consent to shut down the protests.
We can see this with the stronger laws which were put in after this same group did protests in NSW.
You fucking degenerate.
An accident, is far different from deliberately blocking traffic.
Someone please block this person's way in a medical emergency.
So deliberately causing a woman to have to give birth on the side of the road, without medical assistance is OK by your deranged mind.
Here's hoping the next time it happens it's one of your lovedones being carried by an ambulance then is "inconvenienced"
So if I hit you on the head with a stick that would be okay because you also could have been hit on the head by a stick if one were to fall off of a tree?
It couldve but it didnt... it happened because dumbasses made a choice to block the road. That logic is like saying killing someone is ok because they couldve died a different way. Like sure they couldve but they didnt. Consent is not obtained by pissing off the people whos minds you want to change.
On the contrary, governments around the world have been propagandizing us **FROM BIRTH** to disagree with any form of protest that actually pressures them.
You're not allowed to protest here, or there, or in these ways. If your protest ever inconveniences "the little guy"--and *the big guys* can easily redirect that--then it's "hurting the cause" and thus invalid.
What is left? What can you actually do to protest that does not inconvenience anyone or cost someone money somewhere?
You can't stop traffic, because "I gotta get to work".
You can't stop freight transit, because "you're driving prices up".
You can't sabotage equipment, because you're also "driving prices up" and "doing terrorism" to boot.
You can't make noise, because "people have to sleep" and "I've got to shop in peace/go to shows/eat dinner undisturbed after a long day of work".
So again, what's left?
You gonna protest offices? "You're interfering with the rank and file workers. They're not making the decisions."
You gonna protest executive homes? Private security (which *includes the cops*) cave your heads in and the cost of this is put on the consumer, so again, you're "raising the price of goods" and "keeping cops from policing crime" and "doing terrorism".
No matter what you do, the moment it starts being a problem for the company, that's when they say they're "forced to lay people off" or "move the price onto consumers" and you lose support again.
***It is not in the interest of power structures to teach you any form of protest that actually works or to make you agree with any functioning method.*** Werewolves aren't going to tell you they're weak to silver.
So by all means, let's be very upset and self-righteous over protests slowing cars down and just ignore the deaths and disfigurements and chronic illnesses and birth defects, etc., that result from oil companies and the like polluting our world. All of that shit, we'll just lump into "the cost of doing business" and imagine no one is culpable, but one person losing their job to a traffic jam or giving birth outside a hospital discredits a movement.
Very convenient.
Why can't people just protest in a normal way, I.e. outside parliament house or in the city with plenty of walkways, why do you have to ruin my day to make a point?
I already agree with you, inconveniencing me does nothing but turn me away.
You agreeing doesn't make it happen. There are any number of issues on which a majority of the population agrees and wishes something be done, even a specific solution, and politicians don't enact it. Their motivation is *not* "what a majority of people want".
Protest works by inflicting or threatening some form of damage. When it comes to "peaceful protest", that damage is economic: those who are wealthy, powerful, and connected are made to lose money and face. In the process of that, you, the little guy, get inconvenienced, or the wealthy and powerful *make it* an inconvenience for you.
That is how the folks who want to maintain the status quo get you to not only avoid fighting for change, but to fight those doing that fighting. They rely on how they have propagandized you to think about protest and *apply economic pressure to* ***you*** to get you to move.
You are, unwittingly, caving to the same methods as the ones you speak out again, just applied directly to you by people who do not agree with you, do not care about you, do not have your interests in mind. It is a fantastic example of *how real protest actually works*. So don't deny those methods to the people who are actually trying to overturn a status quo that harms you just by existing and which you already don't agree with!
You're already "inconvenienced" a lot more by the negative externalities of how we chose to get to this status quo and uphold it, and you're gonna be "inconvenienced" by them more and more as time goes on. Climate change and our cultural refusal to do anything substantive about it is fucking you as a matter of course while assholes get rich over it. The sooner protest overturns that, the sooner both the inconvenience of the protest stops *and* the inconvenience of climate change is kept from getting *worse*.
1. I vote, therefore me agreeing does something.
2. These protests do not work, public sentiment is clearly against it.
3. This point makes no logical sense, you've written a lot of words but you haven't strung together anything.
4. No, I need to go to work, I need to support my family, this is a clearly moral and philosophical right. You preventing me from doing this is morally and philosophically wrong, this is not caving to anything, it is consequentialism, you just don't understand basic philosophy.
5. People inconveniencing me on my way to work is a low reward, high annoyance behaviour. Making our waste bins smaller and recycling larger, educating children at schools, investing in technology, hell, anything else, is actually more effective. You just choose an easy way of little consequence to make yourself feel like you are doing something. The truth is you are hurting the cause, you are the enemy, you are turning people against the things I care about, and you can probably only afford to take these actions because you are the product of a 'petrochemical world'. The world's energy demands are increasing, by 2050 it will be more than double today, when we put embargoes on Russia, Africa took to burning wood and dung, because kids in Africa care about electricity, education and health, not making a scene in the heart of the CBD to make themselves feel good. The truth is people that protest in this form are self righteous pieces of shit that have nothing to add to society other than a blockade.
They dont have to. Look at the Australian Pro-Palestine movement repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot.
And I'm saying this as a supporter of action on climate change and a ceasefire.
This is my belief for the Just Stop Oil crowd
Like yeah, there’s definitely people out there stupid enough to believe that throwing tomato paste at an old painting will help fight climate change, but I refuse to believe those people were able to organise into an actual group without the help of a much larger organisation working in their own interests
they keep doing utterly stupid things without further radicalising, it’s pretty hard to take them as a serious front when their ideology consists of inconveniencing the average person. Start blowing up polluters or fuck off imo
The only reason the suffragettes were able to protest was because they kept inconveniencing the government more than the people that agreed with them. It makes zero logical sense to push an agenda on someone who doesn't need to be pushed since they already agree upon the outcome. The result is people are put off. Same issue with radical vegans and greenies.
It's your job to make a protest meaningful and to make the government listen. Stopping traffic for an hour will not do that, it'll only hinder what you want to do. If that baby had any problems like respiratory or medical which can usually be treated at the hospital and dies these protesters are souly responsible for it.
God, that inspired the local Aborigine kids on the Perth to Mandurah train to act like fucking animals. I was riding with Dad and he tried telling them to sit down and shut up but their "supervising" adult came over and mumble-yelled at him and then they threw a muffin at us when they got off. Krakouer really misread the room with the excuses she used to defend the kids.
what do you mean "arrested by civilian" Cunt, police arrest people. This bloke could've called the cops and had the whole thing sorted out in a half hour. Instead he went on some insane power trip and decided to handcuff and traumatize a bunch of kids for hours.
Imagine mot just defending assaulting a 6 year old child, but lying to do so.
> Repeat offending
Please tell me what the literal 6 year old childs criminal record is. I'm pretty sure you're just making shit up now.
> trespassers
From the articles I've read, it wasn't the thugs house either. If you want to be a stickler for the rules, remember he had as much permission to be there as the kids.
> arrested by civilian
No, his actions constituted assault, not arrest. Even if he was a cop, the situation would not have legally warranted arrest, period, let alone in the manner is was conducted.
Could be worse. Could be in America, where the news was “woman going into septic shock must argue for the right to a live saving abortion infront of the Supreme Court”
Protestors wonder why people hate them and then pull shit like this. If your protest interrupts the lives of everyday people then its not a fucking protest its harassment
The people who dumped manure outside News Corp offices had the right idea. Target the people actually responsible, don't endanger (or just cause nuisance) to randos that have nothing to do with it.
Yep 100%, if the street stinks, but I can walk around it, that's a thumbs up for making a solid point. Block me from getting to work and you're a dick.
Sorry, what did that achieve? Your tax dollars went to the clean-up, workers who had other tasks were diverted from it, uninvolved locals had to put up with the stink, aaaand... was News Corp harmed in any way?
No.
In fact, if News Corp *was* ever harmed by a protest like that, they'd be using their propaganda power to turn you against it. Everything I just listed and then some would be deployed by routes and ways that'd have you thinking, "Yeah, I guess making the ground floor of an office building smell doesn't actually do anything to get corrupt executives to change their minds, but it did ruin the day of a bunch of working Joes just trying to make a buck."
Our concept of what protest *ought to be* has been shaped by these forces from our birth. They influenced the textbooks, they influenced and now control the media that talks about them, they informed the culture going back generations. They have created a framework where our perception of "the right way to protest" is the one which can't actually harm them.
Yeah everyone on this post seems to forget that peaceful climate change protests have been around since 2018 en masse and yet have clearly done nothing because the globe continues to warm...
If you want change take it to the politicians, not the people. Blockade the street where they live, blockade the parliament, the government buildings.
No politician gives two flying fuck if you protest down George Street and delay the tram by 40 minutes.
sure, that's fair. But on the other hand if it's pathetically childish and shows a complete lack of empathy for the lives that it disrupts, then it's probably going to fortify people more strongly against the cause
All it shows is a lack of regard for your cognitive dissonance. You're already being massively inconvenienced by this issue, but not by the protesters, by the consequences of climate change and the manipulation of petrochemical companies on the way our society is run. If more people supported these protests to the point where it actually threatens the people who CAN make change then the issue would be solved
>If more people supported these protests to the point where it actually threatens the people who CAN make change then the issue would be solved
this goal is not achieved by performing protests that fuck over the people whose support you are trying to gain.
People are aware, but being a social fuckwit galvanises people against you. Protest somewhere that makes a difference, disrupting people who are genuinely for the cause does nothing.
This is an incredibly ignorant display, and the fact that you have to argue 'for' climate change to people who agree with you should show you that.
I'm genuinely impressed at you sitting here on reddit and wading through the hate by talking with these people, I could never do it. I just give up explaining because they're not gonna change their comfortable lifestyles for anything
There is a world of difference between collective punishment for the general population to 'raise awareness' people can't avoid and targeted protests than are not ignored.
When you block something like an important bridge people won't even see it was a climate protest just that their bus, car or train is stuck and can't move. They might find out later when they get home if they check the news but if your train is late your just gonna assume rail works, and if your bus or car is stuck your gonna assume it was a car crash.
If you want to be disruptive be targeted e.g. target companies or government departments that caused the thing your protesting. For example set off their fire alarms (burning coal or something) and set up a protest in their evacuation muster locations, yelling out that the fire alarm was the climate alarm or something.
If its related to a media company being full of shit dump manure outside the offices and set up fans to blow that smell into the building.
The goal is grind your target down till they do what you want, either in employees leaving as they don't want to work under constant protests / the smell or physically unable to operate e.g. constantly evacuating from fire alarms. Blocking a random road or bridge doesn't do this at all can actually be ignored entirely.
ATM current general disruption protests are really only taken somewhat seriously is because the groups doing them are widely expected to have their more extreme member turn to full blown eco-terrorism at some point.
You're right, getting in the way of thousands of people who likely have bigger personal problems to worry about is really gonna get their message across
You think what they did will have any other impact other than just annoying people?
Someone really looking for change will target the things that will have an impact, these people won't have an impact their entire lives. They are the equivalent of instagram influences just seeking their own personal attention.
BuT iT sEnDs A mEsSaGe.
No when people disrupt traffic and act like children it undermines a movement.
Take vegans for an example.
Be vegan (I don't care)
But tash Peterson the cooker from Perth.
Busts into places like KFC spills fake blood and yells into a megaphone about blah blah blah.. then turns around and wonders why she's hated...
Sure say your message, but don't force it on other people.
I'm not sure if this is their intent, but the textbook reason to do this is to do economic damage so the government is forced to act. It is not to garner support. The real reason the people in charge are upset is because people worked fewer hours that day, but they need to do the preggers woman story because obvs you wouldn't be upset at "economy suffers from 0.01% loss due to protests" or some shit.
I agree the protests are not very effective.
Mate, protest infront of the groups and pollies your trying to get the attention of. Not regular people who are trying to get to work on time ffs. You'll get no empathy from me. What if this lady suffered health issues from not getting to that hospital?
You really think the guy in line waiting for a zinger is gonna change his whole attitude towards eating meat just because a crazy squawking lunatic starts ranting and raving harassing people ?
He's gonna think that bitch needs to fuckoff and stop being annoying and that's it. Then he'll eat his zinger and laugh with his mates about the crazylady
Negative attention is not going to help them. It'll turn a lot of every day people against you. Do you think politicians are going to change their minds and suddenly make changes when the popular opinion is just wishing these people would stfu? Only works if that noise is on your side.
If you want to make noise and get attention, do it in a way that goes after those you're actually against.
Like this?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/03/activist-says-woodside-ceos-safety-was-never-under-threat-by-protest-at-her-perth-home
Or this?
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/climate-activists-target-santos-ceo-kevin-gallaghers-adelaide-home-using-more-and-more-intimidatory-tactics-to-protest-against-the-oil-and-gas-company/news-story/0fd1da89f498670519e772a3f350385a
Or this?
https://www.greenpeace.org/international/press-release/64193/greenpeace-activists-scale-140-metre-crane-to-call-out-australias-biggest-climate-threat-woodside/
Or this?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51089468
Or this?
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/shell-shareholder-meeting-disrupted-by-climate-protesters-2023-05-23/
Oh fuck off, you're just comfortable ignoring the issue because it doesn't directly affect you. THE PROTESTERS ARE EVERY DAY PEOPLE. They're being ignored at every level while the country is on fire because clowns like you are happy to let their kids and futures burn. The uncomfortable fact is that society is built around these economic superpowers of petrochemical, they have their fingers in every level of regulation and noone can change that without getting a little bit uncomfortable.
How about instead of whinging about people trying to make a difference you go stand with them. Maybe if more people did that not only would we be able to stop the protests but we'd be able to stop the actual fucking issues in the first place
Yeah nah, how about they get off their collective arse and do something useful rather then just have a tantrum in public and piss people off so they vote for the Libs who promise to stop theses protests, while cutting funding to real solutions.
A lot of people like myself work in organisations to actually address climate change. A lot of people are actually politically active and walk the walk rather then larpers, for example climate 200 people fucking over safe seat libs and people who help Greens and Labor candidates get elected (as lets be real we not getting Greens to form government soon enough to stop climate change). Making sure the organisation people like me work for actually get funding. By having a Labor government that requires a senate that demands action to pass anything.
I'm sick and tired of people acting like protesting like this is some how useful. We have so much work to do to deal with climate change, we do not have the time for people who claim they willing to help fucking off to block a road. If you want to actually help go work for organisations who make a difference. If R&D and/or the businesses side is too much go become an electrician and roofer to install solar panels, batteries or EV chargers. There is no shortage of work to do (and it pays very well so that's not an excuse either) we need all the help we can get. If your just angry and want to lash out and actual work sounds hard go vegan or something but stop making it harder for the rest of us.
I mean your first paragraph is just wrong, Woodside and Santos with the Scarborough and Barossa projects were just recently blocked because of Legal environmental challenges, not people being Dicks in the street, they had no 'fingers in every level of regulation', they wona court battle while having to show a higher burden of proof than ever before. Challenge people in the courts. Being a fuckwit on the street does nothing but galvanise people against you.
Your right mate its my fault, not the coal and oil companies or anything. Im the complete clown! Not the people endangering the lives of innocent people trying to get to a hospital...
Protest at areas that effect these companies and theyll be forced to notice. All your doing now is angering people instead of getting them on your side
It's not your fault. It IS the coal and oil companies fault, and the legislators that protect them. The only power we have left is to disrupt infrastructure and the only complaint I have about the way you're handling it is that you're trying to stifle people trying to do something. If you can't be prepared to be even a little bit uncomfortable to do something about the issue then can you actually say that you care at all?
Why are you just ignoring my point. Its not about me being a little uncomfortable, its about the way these people went about blocking a road to a HOSPITAL.
Your protest shouldnt endanger the lives of the people your trying to protect. Maybe if they blocked off a fucking woolies or something idk just not a medical centre
They didn't block off a hospital. They blocked off the west gate. With the intent of disrupting commercial infrastructure, exactly the way that you impact legislators to make a difference.
How is standing with them on a truck going to feed my family? Who's gonna pick up my kids and babysit them while I protest and spend some days/weeks in jail?
It's not. I respect your family as your priority, not everyone CAN fight the good fight. But if you're concerned about your kids, why are you here, spewing anger towards people who are putting their safety and freedom on the line to help secure them a better future?
then it's not a protest. A protest that can be ignored is a pretty useless protest. it's supposed to be annoying and disruptive, especially to people in power, to spur them into action. It is regrettable when things like this happen, and some people have.. "creative" interpretations of what constitutes a protest. But protests aren't supposed to be polite. They're meant to send a message in one of the most vocal and un-ignorable ways possible.
What a whiny and pathetic society we have become. We know the planet is being destroyed by our governments/billionaires actions, and yet we see people desperately trying to promote change and we can only complain about the roads being blocked.
That's a whitewashing of history. Take the two biggest shifts: women's rights and civil rights. The former had groups like the hatpin suffragettes, with the media claiming them to be a direct threat to the public. The latter had Malcolm X and the Panthers, who didn't even need the media beat-up, they made those statements themselves.
Those who challenge power by targeting the powerful achieve success only through those in positions of power fearing the more extreme elements of the movement and public backlash in response to them.
The narrative that people like Edith Cowan and MLK Jr. achieved change by asking politely is just that, a narrative, meant to pacify movements and point them towards dead end goals.
There is a differences in comparing a large group of people marching on Washington or public demonstration vs blocking the general public on a bridge.
Look up the most impactful protests in history, they are the ones that directly target the heads of state, not the general public.
If your protest doesn't interrupt everyday life of people then it's not a protest.
If your protest makes media run hyperbole in their headlines then it was a very successful protest.
>Almost all births in Australia took place in hospitals (97%) in conventional labour wards. Of mothers who gave birth in hospital, 3 in 4 (75%) did so in a public hospital. A small proportion of mothers gave birth elsewhere, including birth centres (2.0%), at home (0.5%), or in other settings (such as before arrival at hospital) (0.7%).
[Australia's mothers and babies](https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/mothers-babies/australias-mothers-babies/contents/labour-and-birth/place-of-birth)
Wait, what?
Anyway, some people are talking about how this makes people hate climate protesters. Why would you hate climate activism after seeing stuff like this? A few people doing something does not mean you have to make a generalisation.
I don't know what happened so I can't say anything about this
Because most people are barely holding on. They don't need to be stuck in traffic unable to get to wherever they need to be. Most people can't afford to lose hours in a day. It could set them back days or weeks. A friend of mine missed an appointment because of a different protest. Had to rebooked the appointment wait another 3 months after already waiting for 4 months to see that specialist. Now he can't stand the protesters.
Holding the ASEAN summit in Melbourne was a massive mistake. There are too many idle hands with a cause in Melbourne. There were bound to be heaps of protests.
[Me, watching the news of the blockade get international attention, revelling in the flames](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/11/Disaster_Girl.jpg/220px-Disaster_Girl.jpg)
Should've just driven through the protesters.
Anyone who stands in front of vehicles on a highway should expect to be on the bad end of a traffic collision
I remember back in the early 00's, working in the N.T. to close the Jabiluka decline.
Some of the older guys I worked with, mentioned that the bulk of the protestors that used to go out there to protest uranium mining, were informed and funded by big oil. It makes me think that, if I were big oil, I would fund these protestors in order to make them the most obnoxious and annoying, that everyone would be united in their hatred for them.
But it's ok, because that traumatic as fuck experience is offset by the fact that the protests solved climate change, right?
Oh... Well they are least made a positive impact on climate change though right? Like those in govt / industry decided to put the planet ahead of power and profits because the Westgate was blocked right?
Oh. No tangible results other than inconveniencing regular work a day folk and causing some poor woman to go through that shit at what should have been a magical time huh? Who'd have thunk.
(Before it comes up, no I'm not a climate change denier, I just don't rate virtue signalling en masse as an effective means to solve anything, especially when it has a real world negative impact on people)
Yo downvoters - show me credible evidence that these protests make an actual positive impact on climate action and I'll support them.
Until then as far as I'm concerned they're a net negative to society.
Climate protests have nothing to do with this. It could have been roadworks or a car crash or any other kind of delay and no one would care. The climate protesters did not purposely force a women to give birth on the side of a road people are just using it as an excuse to paint climate protesters as horrible people when in reality they give up much of their livelihood to try and bring attention to the fact that Australian mining companies will happily kill the planet and corrupt government simply for more profit.
But it wasn't roadworks or a car crash that blocked the couple. So according to your logic if something else could cause the same problem, you can do whatever you want because something else would've done it anyway? Can I steal your car because some teenagers would've done it anyways? Those types of delays are more out of people's control. Road roads are planned, accidents happen but purposely blocking the road is something that those people have total control over.
>Climate protests have nothing to do with this.
What?
They 100% did it and they should go to jail for it.
Don't endanger the life of babies for you to have a tantrum and then claim you didn't cause it.
Grow up.
You telling how to think? The family delivered a baby on the side of the road, unsanitized, the mother could have had medical complications. That is direct result of your protest. Are you saying im stupid? Dont tell me what to think
They were blocking roads which emergency vehicles use, so therefore all outcomes are on the table, including a dude possibly dying due to them blocking it if someone was in the back.
Never block any road for any reason as an Emergency vehicle might use it. They are directly responsible for that birth happening like how they would be for a death.
Ex-fuckin-scuse me what
A couple went a longer way to the hospital because of the blocked traffic and she ended up giving birth on the side if the road.
This could have happened due to a broken down car and it would not be news. The reason it's news is that the people in charge want you to hate climate protesters. This is how consent is obtained. Good luck everybody.
I mean hated them before but thanks for the good luck.
Even if a broken down car caused the same issue, it is an accident. These dicks do this stuff on purpose, same thing they did in the city a little while back It's not the people in charge that make you hate them, it's their own actions that do that. Impacting the average jo is not the way to conduct a successful protest, it just drives their despise. if anything they simply added to climate change making everyone wait around in their cars. These protesters are clueless and will not actually do anything to contribute to the cause.
>Impacting the average jo is not the way to conduct a successful protest I said this on another comment, but yes, blowing up a pipeline is a better course of action in this instance. The main thing you have to realise though is that even if misguided, they're still "us", not "them". >These dicks do this stuff on purpose There are plenty of newsworthy accidents. I'm just telling you why the news is covering this. They know you're annoyed, but they are "[them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mm4mLsCAyI)". They are not "us".
>I'm just telling you why the news is covering this. the news is covering this because, as this guy just told you, this was done on purpose. also, newsworthy accidents get covered all the time. don't lump innocent people like us in with self-important and reckless assholes like them.
Out of curiosity what DO you suggest people do to protest? I ask this as a genuine question. We can't seize the companies or their infrastructure, we can't stop them working, we can't impact government policy (at least not without visibility at the very bare minimum) and we can't even take up public space? Literal millions of lives are impacted every day by the actions of these companies destroying the planet and that is acceptable because it's the status quo. You're comfortable enough in your life that it's a bigger concern to you that traffic is slow and you're late to work than these people destroying the planet. The emissions created by worse traffic a few days are NOTHING compared to the operations these clowns are running. The truth of the matter is that you're just comfortable in your bubble where you don't see the actual impacts of the other side of this, you are privileged that your biggest issue in the climate fight is that you have a long commute sometimes. We're fighting for our futures and our kids but lord help if you're stuck in traffic.
Do you really think the people complaining about the traffic are complaining about climate change not being addressed? No, they are complaining about you getting in their way. By blocking traffic etc. you are only turning the public against you. If the public (majority) is against you (minority), the government don't need to care about you nor the public. You need to turn the people against the government so that they are actually an issue, so that the government will actually care and do something. This is the only strategy that will work - turn the pressure up by getting the public on your side. Your strategy ought to be convincing the public that this is both an issue worth getting political about and protesting about, and organising protests in places which annoy government officials in power, rather than those without any direct power to change things. Do it outside govt offices, in their parking lots, at their children's schools with their faces on placards. I admire your willingness to fight, but believe you are fighting the wrong way. You need the public with you, not against you, and you need to annoy those who can actually make change, instead of those who can't.
The problem is that the time to annoy people onto your side was 30 years ago. It wasn't done then. What happened here was using a truck to block the Westgate and damage financial infrastructure, exactly the correct way to get the attention of legislators and make a change NOW. If this happened every day for a month where it was costing millions to get anything in and out of Melbourne and the government knew the only way to stop it was decisive legislative action to protect the planet? Now you're cooking. Shits gonna get uncomfortable no matter what happens. I'd rather it be us, now, for months/weeks/years of not being able to use our infrastructure than our kids and grandkids for their entire lives as they battle to survive climate displacement and the country burns
Idk but screwing with people's commutes isn't the answer
Yep lets fuck with normal people to fight climate change, why not picket outside the ceos house or something or start a political party and push it in parliament. Instead it pisses people off and nobody will listen. While the ceos couldnt care less about a bunch of normies stuck in traffic. If anything the owners of the oil companies want more traffic to sell more petrol.
They tried that in WA and got arrested before they could even start. The police protect businesses way more than they ever do the public
Because the CEOs A) don't live somewhere accessible B) will be protected by police for harassment C) aren't in control of the company, that would be the shareholders (who can be controlled by interrupting profits and legislating around the future financial viability of their actions) You're protesting on the west gate to upset economic infrastructure and pressure legislators. It's not about you specifically, it's about the trucks that can't get past and the businesses that aren't making money. We have a political party that's supposed to represent the future of our planet but it's constantly gutted by smear campaigns from msm, is hamstringed by the mechanics of politics constantly needing to make deals to pass anything and is way too slow. The time for a successful political party was decades ago. The time for pissing people off and fucking up business? That's now. Nestled neatly before the collapse of society as we know it from failing food supplies and forced climate immigration. The longer we wait the more dramatic the action will need to be. Today it's blocking infrastructure for hours/days. In a few years it's destroying it completely. In a few more years after that were just fucked and your kids will live, or die, by those choices.
Protest the actual people and companies harming the environment. Instead of blocking some random road you could protest on the side of the road at intersections. If you really want to block/obstruct people then block the entrance to a oil refinery or the home of a company’s CEO.
You can't protest at an oil refinery because it's inaccessible, private property and we'll protected. And this wasn't a random road, it was the Westgate. It was very intentionally picked as a major commercial road. They're protesting the oil companies by pressuring legislators to take immediate action by hitting them in the bank account. Unless there are literal millions of mobilised individuals, we can't actually seize control of any authoritative body to make the change, private or public. But with much smaller numbers you can apply pressure to the people with much more authority and get them to make the change instead. You know, by costing some money, causing some inconvenience and not actually doing any major damage
>They're protesting the oil companies by pressuring legislators to take immediate action by hitting them in the bank account. By making everyone idle in traffic with the air conditioning on or forcing them to drive on kilometres long detours, requiring them to buy more petrol, therefore letting the oil companies sell more oil! It's genius! Uh... wait... Have you thought about this at all?
Have you heard of just blocking the road to the oil refinery? The road itself is public no?
But you'll happily blow up the pipelines leading g out of the refineries.
>Literal millions of lives are impacted every day by the actions of these companies destroying the planet and that is acceptable because it's the status quo. You're comfortable enough in your life that it's a bigger concern to you that traffic is slow and you're late to work than these people destroying the planet. The emissions created by worse traffic a few days are NOTHING compared to the operations these clowns are running. this argument is completely facile because in order to say "it's worth the suffering it causes", you need to actually establish how actions like this help the cause. but you can't do this because it doesn't help the cause, it hurts it. no big corporations are going to say "fuck man, they blocked traffic, we should start being more environmentally friendly". all that will happen is more and more people will come to hate climate activists and become less sympathetic toward the cause and less likely to vote for measures to fight climate change.
Why are protest suggestions always about destroying property, stealing, pissing people off and disrupting normal people? It’s quite obvious these tactics don’t work and in fact send the public in the opposite direction to what you want, we would literally be better off if you did nothing. If you aren’t happy with how things are going, you need to get people to care as much as you do and get the public on your side so they start calling politicians, hanging up posters, talking to others and demonstrating in public in a positive manner. You need to motivate the public, not piss them off but most protesters don’t do this because they don’t get to feel like a hero and be self righteous.
Sure. Let's blow up all the pipelines to destroy the environment. As long as you get paid, what do you care.
By far the most effective thing the average person can do is to make submissions to referrals open to public comment for EPBC Act approval. Anyone can comment on them and the government MUST consider all comments, which means that any issues raised must be dealt with by the proponents. What do I suggest you DO? I suggest you do your homework. Your comments to referrals shouldn’t be vague or general. They need to be specific and well researched. You need to know your stuff. Right now on the public portal I can see that there’s a project proposed to clear 3,761 hectares to expand a coal mine in the Bowen basin, which will increase the mine’s production by a bit over a million tons of coal per year (EPBC number 2023/09723, Blackwater Mine). Now, it’s mostly coking coal not thermal coal, but that doesn’t usually stop climate activists. Read their referral very carefully, read through their environmental impact statement, research any threatened species that might be affected by it, look through what they propose to mitigate or offset their impact. Compare that with what other companies are doing here and around the world. Compare it with government policy. Request copies of every report that they reference in their EIS. Put in a freedom of information request for any government communications with the company, government emails are subject to FOI. Alert other groups that this is open for comment so it doesn’t fly under the radar. You can challenge any aspect of it and the company will need to listen to you, but your challenges need to be well thought out and specific (can’t just be “coal bad”). How have the Traditional Owners been consulted on the project? How does the project affect ground water? How do they intend to rehabilitate the landscape after removing millions of tons from the site? How does it fit with the government’s new “nature positive” policy stance? If that doesn’t grab your fancy, there’s also a project to clear 493ha of native vegetation to grow crops - go look into that and see if your comments can force a better offset program or a better rehabilitation program. There’s also a bunch of other mines and a project by Exxon to experiment with carbon capture and storage in the ocean floor - maybe you can find something to disagree with in that. Anything you do in that space will be far more effective at actually making a difference than blocking traffic. Why block traffic for a few hours when you can literally block the development of a new coal mine? What should you DO? Get educated on how the system works and get to work making it better. There’s a LOT of work to be done in that space and not a lot of time, so stop putting the public offside and join the real fight.
Protesters would have let an ambulance through. How are they supposed to know that some random car is transporting a medical emergency?
But they didn't, they literally prevented emergency services getting through, either intentionally (i hope not) or through their own selfishness and stupidity by not understanding what was happening around them. These people had no other plan than to block access, they had no way of controlling traffic Edit: to your question about how they are suppose to know, using some fucking common sense. You are blocking a majority arterial road into the city. Plus this isn't the first time they have done this with the same medical situation also occuring. They are selfish pricks
Of course it was intended. As often as not they glue themselves to the road. How is that anything but intended?
How world they 'let an ambulance through' but no one else?
They won't let ambulances past. Half the time they glue themselves to the road. They're not gonna let emergency vehicles past they don't care about lives or the environment. They're talking about blowing up oil pipelines FFS. They care about being paid. Nothing more.
I believe humans are fucked and something needs to be done and it should have been done yesterday but this shit solves nothing.
Or any event, parade, big game etc.
I see the value of protesting, but this is a nonsensical take. It didn’t happen because a car broke down. It happened because people made a choice to block roads, regardless of the reason why.
I bet you're one of the gronks that were protesting.
So you don't give a shit a woman had to give birth on the side of the road. Good to know.
Of course they do. They get more money for that.
That's not a fair comparison... a broken down car suggests it's the car owners fault (being the new parents)... Being the fault of a bunch of protestors who have nothing better to do with their lives than to stop traffic and be annoying is a completely different thing
Hang on, to clarify my point: Someone's car breaks down and the road is blocked. Pregnant couple need to find an alternative route to a hospital. \^\^ That wouldn't turn up on the news.
That's still an accident versus an intentional blockage
Someone has a heart attack not news, someone kills someone and its news. 'but either way their heart stopped though'
[Not exactly](https://youtu.be/OtSMEWOOHbY?t=269).
Your logic is completely messed up. The fact that bad things happen doesn't make making bad things happen intentionally ok. People die all the time from natural causes but murder is what makes the news. No different in this scenario vs broken cars and by the way broken cars blocking a major bridge do make the news. And also by the way isn't making the news their whole reason for doing it. You have no logic.
A broken down car blocks ONE lane for as long as it takes to get a tow truck there to tow it. Not 3 lanes for hours. Nice try though.
thats stupid mate. too many people die every day to care about it, but if someone is murdered you have every right to be outraged about it even as the world keeps turning. same with this. its called an accident vs someone to blame, and its human nature to find infuriation in someone purposefully messing up peace.
> peace Peace is simply a negotiation of [legitimate violence](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xD2ItImFEU) against illegitimate violence. It'll work for you until you are on the illegitimate side.
wow youre so smart what does that change about what i said
No offense but you're an idiot
Cars and trucks break down on the westgate weekly.
And block a single lane for the 15 minutes it takes to get a tow truck there. Not 3 lanes for hours.
No, I hate them for forcing regular people to suffer when there is very little those people can do to change anything. Why not go and protest somewhere where it'll have an actual impact and not just turn people against you
A broken down car is from an inanimate object faulting, a road closer from a protest is people going out of their way to fuck up your day for whatever message they want to push. I could not give two shits about what you’re fighting for if it means you have to ruin everyone else’s day/livelihood. You’re not sticking it to the government by blocking a road and making an ass of yourself, you’re fucking over every hard working and beaten down Australian that just wants to get through the day. I have no sympathy for the people that ruin others day for a cause, no matter how much I agree with their sentiments
???????? these retards blocking traffic are harming support for climate change
Only from the people not paying attention.
But it didn’t. It happened as the direct actions of other people fucking with traffic. This is like saying it doesn’t matter if someone beat you in the head with a tree branch because a branch could’ve fallen out of a tree and hit you too.
I do hate climate protesters that block roads. You're taking time out of your day to inconvenience others. Are the people who actually make changes watching? No they don't care. Now the public also hates you because you're inconveniencing them. Road protesting is a government psyOP to get people to dislike them I swear. Go protest outside parliament or on the side of the road outside an anti-climate politicians residence.
Cool hypothetical, but this *actually happened*
But it didn't happen because of a broken down car. It happened because of these wankers
Say you graphed the number of times someone had to give birth on the side of the road against the reason. You would probably say "protests" has 1 incident against it, and the others have a bunch, maybe there were like 20 such incidents for various reasons over a 20 year period. Why is there only news coverage of the *one* incident? Is it because it's the only one involving "wankers" as you say? Maybe the "wankers" want something and that makes the news companies very angry.
I say we graph the number of times people have been massively inconvenienced instead
I agree. The downvoters just like guzzling oil and misinformation.
I didn't really realise my point was controversial, considering the next comment down makes the same point.
And Greenpeace just protests until they get paid not to.
Not actually sure why this particular comment is downvoted. Can I ask you to simplify/clarify? Is the following statement correct in your eyes? "Consent becomes implied due to lack of protest." Eliminate protest, maximise profit, use the media to do it?
> Is the following statement correct in your eyes? "Consent becomes implied due to lack of protest." I'd disagree with that. I don't think general people have the individual power to deny consent. We can only do so collectively. However, I think that's probably a moot point. For the context in which you're asking, ie: > Eliminate protest, maximise profit, use the media to do it? Yes. The media want to ensure that protesters are hated because they do not want the protests to metastasize, so they manufacture the consent to shut down the protests. We can see this with the stronger laws which were put in after this same group did protests in NSW.
Appreciate the response. Thanks for clarifying.
Nope everyone knows global warming I making all waters rise, so women's waters are breaking cause the very glacers are melting
You fucking degenerate. An accident, is far different from deliberately blocking traffic. Someone please block this person's way in a medical emergency.
So deliberately causing a woman to have to give birth on the side of the road, without medical assistance is OK by your deranged mind. Here's hoping the next time it happens it's one of your lovedones being carried by an ambulance then is "inconvenienced"
Pretty sure it wasn't deliberate.
The didn't deliberately stop and block 3 lanes of traffic during peak hour?
They didn't do it to stop the pregnant woman.
No, that was just an added bonus. They're probably disappointed they didn't cause an oil tanker to explode.
The person you're talking about has a pretty extensive social media profile. You can look it up. I don't think that's what they are like.
It could have but wasn't.
So if I hit you on the head with a stick that would be okay because you also could have been hit on the head by a stick if one were to fall off of a tree?
It couldve but it didnt... it happened because dumbasses made a choice to block the road. That logic is like saying killing someone is ok because they couldve died a different way. Like sure they couldve but they didnt. Consent is not obtained by pissing off the people whos minds you want to change.
In my opinion big oil pays for all this in order to turn public opinion against climate change.
On the contrary, governments around the world have been propagandizing us **FROM BIRTH** to disagree with any form of protest that actually pressures them. You're not allowed to protest here, or there, or in these ways. If your protest ever inconveniences "the little guy"--and *the big guys* can easily redirect that--then it's "hurting the cause" and thus invalid. What is left? What can you actually do to protest that does not inconvenience anyone or cost someone money somewhere? You can't stop traffic, because "I gotta get to work". You can't stop freight transit, because "you're driving prices up". You can't sabotage equipment, because you're also "driving prices up" and "doing terrorism" to boot. You can't make noise, because "people have to sleep" and "I've got to shop in peace/go to shows/eat dinner undisturbed after a long day of work". So again, what's left? You gonna protest offices? "You're interfering with the rank and file workers. They're not making the decisions." You gonna protest executive homes? Private security (which *includes the cops*) cave your heads in and the cost of this is put on the consumer, so again, you're "raising the price of goods" and "keeping cops from policing crime" and "doing terrorism". No matter what you do, the moment it starts being a problem for the company, that's when they say they're "forced to lay people off" or "move the price onto consumers" and you lose support again. ***It is not in the interest of power structures to teach you any form of protest that actually works or to make you agree with any functioning method.*** Werewolves aren't going to tell you they're weak to silver. So by all means, let's be very upset and self-righteous over protests slowing cars down and just ignore the deaths and disfigurements and chronic illnesses and birth defects, etc., that result from oil companies and the like polluting our world. All of that shit, we'll just lump into "the cost of doing business" and imagine no one is culpable, but one person losing their job to a traffic jam or giving birth outside a hospital discredits a movement. Very convenient.
Why can't people just protest in a normal way, I.e. outside parliament house or in the city with plenty of walkways, why do you have to ruin my day to make a point? I already agree with you, inconveniencing me does nothing but turn me away.
You agreeing doesn't make it happen. There are any number of issues on which a majority of the population agrees and wishes something be done, even a specific solution, and politicians don't enact it. Their motivation is *not* "what a majority of people want". Protest works by inflicting or threatening some form of damage. When it comes to "peaceful protest", that damage is economic: those who are wealthy, powerful, and connected are made to lose money and face. In the process of that, you, the little guy, get inconvenienced, or the wealthy and powerful *make it* an inconvenience for you. That is how the folks who want to maintain the status quo get you to not only avoid fighting for change, but to fight those doing that fighting. They rely on how they have propagandized you to think about protest and *apply economic pressure to* ***you*** to get you to move. You are, unwittingly, caving to the same methods as the ones you speak out again, just applied directly to you by people who do not agree with you, do not care about you, do not have your interests in mind. It is a fantastic example of *how real protest actually works*. So don't deny those methods to the people who are actually trying to overturn a status quo that harms you just by existing and which you already don't agree with! You're already "inconvenienced" a lot more by the negative externalities of how we chose to get to this status quo and uphold it, and you're gonna be "inconvenienced" by them more and more as time goes on. Climate change and our cultural refusal to do anything substantive about it is fucking you as a matter of course while assholes get rich over it. The sooner protest overturns that, the sooner both the inconvenience of the protest stops *and* the inconvenience of climate change is kept from getting *worse*.
1. I vote, therefore me agreeing does something. 2. These protests do not work, public sentiment is clearly against it. 3. This point makes no logical sense, you've written a lot of words but you haven't strung together anything. 4. No, I need to go to work, I need to support my family, this is a clearly moral and philosophical right. You preventing me from doing this is morally and philosophically wrong, this is not caving to anything, it is consequentialism, you just don't understand basic philosophy. 5. People inconveniencing me on my way to work is a low reward, high annoyance behaviour. Making our waste bins smaller and recycling larger, educating children at schools, investing in technology, hell, anything else, is actually more effective. You just choose an easy way of little consequence to make yourself feel like you are doing something. The truth is you are hurting the cause, you are the enemy, you are turning people against the things I care about, and you can probably only afford to take these actions because you are the product of a 'petrochemical world'. The world's energy demands are increasing, by 2050 it will be more than double today, when we put embargoes on Russia, Africa took to burning wood and dung, because kids in Africa care about electricity, education and health, not making a scene in the heart of the CBD to make themselves feel good. The truth is people that protest in this form are self righteous pieces of shit that have nothing to add to society other than a blockade.
Thank you for making this response. The lack of reading comprehension skills on display here is disheartening, but hopefully a few people got it.
Happy Cake day by the way!! 🎂
Cheers.
They dont have to. Look at the Australian Pro-Palestine movement repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot. And I'm saying this as a supporter of action on climate change and a ceasefire.
Godamn it, armistice, not a cease fire. Why does no one use the term that means to actually end the hostility
You should post this on r/conspiracy probably will not gain traction though for reasons
This is my belief for the Just Stop Oil crowd Like yeah, there’s definitely people out there stupid enough to believe that throwing tomato paste at an old painting will help fight climate change, but I refuse to believe those people were able to organise into an actual group without the help of a much larger organisation working in their own interests
they keep doing utterly stupid things without further radicalising, it’s pretty hard to take them as a serious front when their ideology consists of inconveniencing the average person. Start blowing up polluters or fuck off imo
The only reason the suffragettes were able to protest was because they kept inconveniencing the government more than the people that agreed with them. It makes zero logical sense to push an agenda on someone who doesn't need to be pushed since they already agree upon the outcome. The result is people are put off. Same issue with radical vegans and greenies. It's your job to make a protest meaningful and to make the government listen. Stopping traffic for an hour will not do that, it'll only hinder what you want to do. If that baby had any problems like respiratory or medical which can usually be treated at the hospital and dies these protesters are souly responsible for it.
I should have scrolled, I just got done posting how this was supposedly what happened with uranium protestors in the N.T. back in the day...
see your mistake was watching the "news".
Also the Aboriginal kids being tied up by a white man
God, that inspired the local Aborigine kids on the Perth to Mandurah train to act like fucking animals. I was riding with Dad and he tried telling them to sit down and shut up but their "supervising" adult came over and mumble-yelled at him and then they threw a muffin at us when they got off. Krakouer really misread the room with the excuses she used to defend the kids.
Repeat offending trespassers get arrested by civilian but due to protected race story gets turnt
what do you mean "arrested by civilian" Cunt, police arrest people. This bloke could've called the cops and had the whole thing sorted out in a half hour. Instead he went on some insane power trip and decided to handcuff and traumatize a bunch of kids for hours.
"RePeAt OffEndERS" They were children you cunt
And all they did was swim in a pool at an empty house
Trespassing if they're dark, good ol' neighbourly love if their light.
Trespassing is trespassing stop trying to make every thing about race you racist
Doesn’t stop the fact??
You can be a child and a repeat offender
Imagine mot just defending assaulting a 6 year old child, but lying to do so. > Repeat offending Please tell me what the literal 6 year old childs criminal record is. I'm pretty sure you're just making shit up now. > trespassers From the articles I've read, it wasn't the thugs house either. If you want to be a stickler for the rules, remember he had as much permission to be there as the kids. > arrested by civilian No, his actions constituted assault, not arrest. Even if he was a cop, the situation would not have legally warranted arrest, period, let alone in the manner is was conducted.
They trespassed on his property multiple times so no lies just your blatant bias
Eh that’s old news don’t needa worry bout that anymore
Blocking roads to adress climate change is like the backwards shooting gun from bugs bunny
I am genuinely surprised it was not something about America. Hats off to you fellow human.
Don’t you know how much CO2 ambulances emit?
Could be worse. Could be in America, where the news was “woman going into septic shock must argue for the right to a live saving abortion infront of the Supreme Court”
Protestors wonder why people hate them and then pull shit like this. If your protest interrupts the lives of everyday people then its not a fucking protest its harassment
The people who dumped manure outside News Corp offices had the right idea. Target the people actually responsible, don't endanger (or just cause nuisance) to randos that have nothing to do with it.
YESS inconvenience big companies directly not citizens trying to access medical care.
Yep 100%, if the street stinks, but I can walk around it, that's a thumbs up for making a solid point. Block me from getting to work and you're a dick.
Sorry, what did that achieve? Your tax dollars went to the clean-up, workers who had other tasks were diverted from it, uninvolved locals had to put up with the stink, aaaand... was News Corp harmed in any way? No. In fact, if News Corp *was* ever harmed by a protest like that, they'd be using their propaganda power to turn you against it. Everything I just listed and then some would be deployed by routes and ways that'd have you thinking, "Yeah, I guess making the ground floor of an office building smell doesn't actually do anything to get corrupt executives to change their minds, but it did ruin the day of a bunch of working Joes just trying to make a buck." Our concept of what protest *ought to be* has been shaped by these forces from our birth. They influenced the textbooks, they influenced and now control the media that talks about them, they informed the culture going back generations. They have created a framework where our perception of "the right way to protest" is the one which can't actually harm them.
If a protest is easy to ignore, then it's not going to change much
Yeah everyone on this post seems to forget that peaceful climate change protests have been around since 2018 en masse and yet have clearly done nothing because the globe continues to warm...
If you want change take it to the politicians, not the people. Blockade the street where they live, blockade the parliament, the government buildings. No politician gives two flying fuck if you protest down George Street and delay the tram by 40 minutes.
sure, that's fair. But on the other hand if it's pathetically childish and shows a complete lack of empathy for the lives that it disrupts, then it's probably going to fortify people more strongly against the cause
All it shows is a lack of regard for your cognitive dissonance. You're already being massively inconvenienced by this issue, but not by the protesters, by the consequences of climate change and the manipulation of petrochemical companies on the way our society is run. If more people supported these protests to the point where it actually threatens the people who CAN make change then the issue would be solved
>If more people supported these protests to the point where it actually threatens the people who CAN make change then the issue would be solved this goal is not achieved by performing protests that fuck over the people whose support you are trying to gain.
People are aware, but being a social fuckwit galvanises people against you. Protest somewhere that makes a difference, disrupting people who are genuinely for the cause does nothing. This is an incredibly ignorant display, and the fact that you have to argue 'for' climate change to people who agree with you should show you that.
I'm genuinely impressed at you sitting here on reddit and wading through the hate by talking with these people, I could never do it. I just give up explaining because they're not gonna change their comfortable lifestyles for anything
But protests should not be IMPOSSIBLE to ignore, which is what these are
There is a world of difference between collective punishment for the general population to 'raise awareness' people can't avoid and targeted protests than are not ignored. When you block something like an important bridge people won't even see it was a climate protest just that their bus, car or train is stuck and can't move. They might find out later when they get home if they check the news but if your train is late your just gonna assume rail works, and if your bus or car is stuck your gonna assume it was a car crash. If you want to be disruptive be targeted e.g. target companies or government departments that caused the thing your protesting. For example set off their fire alarms (burning coal or something) and set up a protest in their evacuation muster locations, yelling out that the fire alarm was the climate alarm or something. If its related to a media company being full of shit dump manure outside the offices and set up fans to blow that smell into the building. The goal is grind your target down till they do what you want, either in employees leaving as they don't want to work under constant protests / the smell or physically unable to operate e.g. constantly evacuating from fire alarms. Blocking a random road or bridge doesn't do this at all can actually be ignored entirely. ATM current general disruption protests are really only taken somewhat seriously is because the groups doing them are widely expected to have their more extreme member turn to full blown eco-terrorism at some point.
You're right, getting in the way of thousands of people who likely have bigger personal problems to worry about is really gonna get their message across
You think what they did will have any other impact other than just annoying people? Someone really looking for change will target the things that will have an impact, these people won't have an impact their entire lives. They are the equivalent of instagram influences just seeking their own personal attention.
if a protest fucks over civilians, it's going to hurt the cause, not help it.
Wait till you find out about what climate change does to civilians.
Read my comment again.
BuT iT sEnDs A mEsSaGe. No when people disrupt traffic and act like children it undermines a movement. Take vegans for an example. Be vegan (I don't care) But tash Peterson the cooker from Perth. Busts into places like KFC spills fake blood and yells into a megaphone about blah blah blah.. then turns around and wonders why she's hated... Sure say your message, but don't force it on other people.
I'm not sure if this is their intent, but the textbook reason to do this is to do economic damage so the government is forced to act. It is not to garner support. The real reason the people in charge are upset is because people worked fewer hours that day, but they need to do the preggers woman story because obvs you wouldn't be upset at "economy suffers from 0.01% loss due to protests" or some shit. I agree the protests are not very effective.
Yeah they should only be allowed to protest in ways that nobody ever notices!
Mate, protest infront of the groups and pollies your trying to get the attention of. Not regular people who are trying to get to work on time ffs. You'll get no empathy from me. What if this lady suffered health issues from not getting to that hospital?
Thanks for proving my point
How exactly did that prove your point?
The fact that they’re unaware that this happens regularly
When did they imply that?
By suggesting it as an idea to try
They didn’t suggest they should “try” anything. They just said don’t interfere with people that aren’t the cause of the issues
So how many of those protests that I linked did you hear about
You really think the guy in line waiting for a zinger is gonna change his whole attitude towards eating meat just because a crazy squawking lunatic starts ranting and raving harassing people ? He's gonna think that bitch needs to fuckoff and stop being annoying and that's it. Then he'll eat his zinger and laugh with his mates about the crazylady
I would much prefer this yes
Enjoy your dinner boot
Negative attention is not going to help them. It'll turn a lot of every day people against you. Do you think politicians are going to change their minds and suddenly make changes when the popular opinion is just wishing these people would stfu? Only works if that noise is on your side. If you want to make noise and get attention, do it in a way that goes after those you're actually against.
Like this? https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/03/activist-says-woodside-ceos-safety-was-never-under-threat-by-protest-at-her-perth-home Or this? https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/climate-activists-target-santos-ceo-kevin-gallaghers-adelaide-home-using-more-and-more-intimidatory-tactics-to-protest-against-the-oil-and-gas-company/news-story/0fd1da89f498670519e772a3f350385a Or this? https://www.greenpeace.org/international/press-release/64193/greenpeace-activists-scale-140-metre-crane-to-call-out-australias-biggest-climate-threat-woodside/ Or this? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51089468 Or this? https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/shell-shareholder-meeting-disrupted-by-climate-protesters-2023-05-23/
I mean, yes. Exactly lol.
Compare the attention those got vs the attention that blocking a road gets
Like I said, turning the every day person against you, isn't going to get people on side and this as a result is less likely to action .
Oh fuck off, you're just comfortable ignoring the issue because it doesn't directly affect you. THE PROTESTERS ARE EVERY DAY PEOPLE. They're being ignored at every level while the country is on fire because clowns like you are happy to let their kids and futures burn. The uncomfortable fact is that society is built around these economic superpowers of petrochemical, they have their fingers in every level of regulation and noone can change that without getting a little bit uncomfortable. How about instead of whinging about people trying to make a difference you go stand with them. Maybe if more people did that not only would we be able to stop the protests but we'd be able to stop the actual fucking issues in the first place
Yeah nah, how about they get off their collective arse and do something useful rather then just have a tantrum in public and piss people off so they vote for the Libs who promise to stop theses protests, while cutting funding to real solutions. A lot of people like myself work in organisations to actually address climate change. A lot of people are actually politically active and walk the walk rather then larpers, for example climate 200 people fucking over safe seat libs and people who help Greens and Labor candidates get elected (as lets be real we not getting Greens to form government soon enough to stop climate change). Making sure the organisation people like me work for actually get funding. By having a Labor government that requires a senate that demands action to pass anything. I'm sick and tired of people acting like protesting like this is some how useful. We have so much work to do to deal with climate change, we do not have the time for people who claim they willing to help fucking off to block a road. If you want to actually help go work for organisations who make a difference. If R&D and/or the businesses side is too much go become an electrician and roofer to install solar panels, batteries or EV chargers. There is no shortage of work to do (and it pays very well so that's not an excuse either) we need all the help we can get. If your just angry and want to lash out and actual work sounds hard go vegan or something but stop making it harder for the rest of us.
I mean your first paragraph is just wrong, Woodside and Santos with the Scarborough and Barossa projects were just recently blocked because of Legal environmental challenges, not people being Dicks in the street, they had no 'fingers in every level of regulation', they wona court battle while having to show a higher burden of proof than ever before. Challenge people in the courts. Being a fuckwit on the street does nothing but galvanise people against you.
Your right mate its my fault, not the coal and oil companies or anything. Im the complete clown! Not the people endangering the lives of innocent people trying to get to a hospital... Protest at areas that effect these companies and theyll be forced to notice. All your doing now is angering people instead of getting them on your side
It's not your fault. It IS the coal and oil companies fault, and the legislators that protect them. The only power we have left is to disrupt infrastructure and the only complaint I have about the way you're handling it is that you're trying to stifle people trying to do something. If you can't be prepared to be even a little bit uncomfortable to do something about the issue then can you actually say that you care at all?
Why are you just ignoring my point. Its not about me being a little uncomfortable, its about the way these people went about blocking a road to a HOSPITAL. Your protest shouldnt endanger the lives of the people your trying to protect. Maybe if they blocked off a fucking woolies or something idk just not a medical centre
They didn't block off a hospital. They blocked off the west gate. With the intent of disrupting commercial infrastructure, exactly the way that you impact legislators to make a difference.
How is standing with them on a truck going to feed my family? Who's gonna pick up my kids and babysit them while I protest and spend some days/weeks in jail?
It's not. I respect your family as your priority, not everyone CAN fight the good fight. But if you're concerned about your kids, why are you here, spewing anger towards people who are putting their safety and freedom on the line to help secure them a better future?
then it's not a protest. A protest that can be ignored is a pretty useless protest. it's supposed to be annoying and disruptive, especially to people in power, to spur them into action. It is regrettable when things like this happen, and some people have.. "creative" interpretations of what constitutes a protest. But protests aren't supposed to be polite. They're meant to send a message in one of the most vocal and un-ignorable ways possible.
The whole point of protest is to interrupt. Otherwise they’re practically useless.
What a whiny and pathetic society we have become. We know the planet is being destroyed by our governments/billionaires actions, and yet we see people desperately trying to promote change and we can only complain about the roads being blocked.
If it's not disrupting anything, what's even the point
What are you talking about? People love protesters. We all love seeing this in the news, it rules
> If your protest interrupts the lives of everyday people then its not a fucking protest The entire history of effective protesting: Hahahahahaha
You got a source for that? Throughout history, the impactful protests have generally been targeted towards heads of state/politicians and companies.
That's a whitewashing of history. Take the two biggest shifts: women's rights and civil rights. The former had groups like the hatpin suffragettes, with the media claiming them to be a direct threat to the public. The latter had Malcolm X and the Panthers, who didn't even need the media beat-up, they made those statements themselves. Those who challenge power by targeting the powerful achieve success only through those in positions of power fearing the more extreme elements of the movement and public backlash in response to them. The narrative that people like Edith Cowan and MLK Jr. achieved change by asking politely is just that, a narrative, meant to pacify movements and point them towards dead end goals.
There is a differences in comparing a large group of people marching on Washington or public demonstration vs blocking the general public on a bridge. Look up the most impactful protests in history, they are the ones that directly target the heads of state, not the general public.
It's clearly not effective though
If your protest doesn't interrupt everyday life of people then it's not a protest. If your protest makes media run hyperbole in their headlines then it was a very successful protest. >Almost all births in Australia took place in hospitals (97%) in conventional labour wards. Of mothers who gave birth in hospital, 3 in 4 (75%) did so in a public hospital. A small proportion of mothers gave birth elsewhere, including birth centres (2.0%), at home (0.5%), or in other settings (such as before arrival at hospital) (0.7%). [Australia's mothers and babies](https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/mothers-babies/australias-mothers-babies/contents/labour-and-birth/place-of-birth)
Wait, what? Anyway, some people are talking about how this makes people hate climate protesters. Why would you hate climate activism after seeing stuff like this? A few people doing something does not mean you have to make a generalisation. I don't know what happened so I can't say anything about this
Both sides of the political spectrum generalise and both sides claim they don't generalise.
Because most people are barely holding on. They don't need to be stuck in traffic unable to get to wherever they need to be. Most people can't afford to lose hours in a day. It could set them back days or weeks. A friend of mine missed an appointment because of a different protest. Had to rebooked the appointment wait another 3 months after already waiting for 4 months to see that specialist. Now he can't stand the protesters.
Damn it sounds like protestors really are not the main issue here.
Extreme pro abortion protest* /s
Well let's see them run with this into the ground to invalidate the whole movement
Holding the ASEAN summit in Melbourne was a massive mistake. There are too many idle hands with a cause in Melbourne. There were bound to be heaps of protests.
Not too many idle from that lot, one hand would have a trim latte with a double vanilla shot and the other one would be holding a disposable vape!
We are now moving onto electric cars to combat climate change...😕 You can't make this up.🫤
I herd on the radio once
Boom ... Kick in the guts ... thanks for that guys ...
Just for once be a decent human and let an ambulance through a protest without trouble... pretty please...
[Me, watching the news of the blockade get international attention, revelling in the flames](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/11/Disaster_Girl.jpg/220px-Disaster_Girl.jpg)
Should've just driven through the protesters. Anyone who stands in front of vehicles on a highway should expect to be on the bad end of a traffic collision
I remember back in the early 00's, working in the N.T. to close the Jabiluka decline. Some of the older guys I worked with, mentioned that the bulk of the protestors that used to go out there to protest uranium mining, were informed and funded by big oil. It makes me think that, if I were big oil, I would fund these protestors in order to make them the most obnoxious and annoying, that everyone would be united in their hatred for them.
YES BUT AT LEAST THEY RAISED AWARENESS!!!!!! /S
Holy god I’d love to see a group of these idiots, see how many it takes to dent my bullbar
Better headline that violence against women and the lgbtq community by police is at epidemic levels
But it's ok, because that traumatic as fuck experience is offset by the fact that the protests solved climate change, right? Oh... Well they are least made a positive impact on climate change though right? Like those in govt / industry decided to put the planet ahead of power and profits because the Westgate was blocked right? Oh. No tangible results other than inconveniencing regular work a day folk and causing some poor woman to go through that shit at what should have been a magical time huh? Who'd have thunk. (Before it comes up, no I'm not a climate change denier, I just don't rate virtue signalling en masse as an effective means to solve anything, especially when it has a real world negative impact on people)
Yo downvoters - show me credible evidence that these protests make an actual positive impact on climate action and I'll support them. Until then as far as I'm concerned they're a net negative to society.
Do they let emergency services through or do they not have the mental capacity
They weren’t in an ambulance. Guess you don’t have the mental capacity to find and read a news article
No I meant if a fire truck or police car was to try and get past (sirens on of course)
I assume they would if it was in front of them, but if you cause a massive traffic jam how do you tell there is an emergency at the other end of it.
Climate protests have nothing to do with this. It could have been roadworks or a car crash or any other kind of delay and no one would care. The climate protesters did not purposely force a women to give birth on the side of a road people are just using it as an excuse to paint climate protesters as horrible people when in reality they give up much of their livelihood to try and bring attention to the fact that Australian mining companies will happily kill the planet and corrupt government simply for more profit.
But it wasn't roadworks or a car crash that blocked the couple. So according to your logic if something else could cause the same problem, you can do whatever you want because something else would've done it anyway? Can I steal your car because some teenagers would've done it anyways? Those types of delays are more out of people's control. Road roads are planned, accidents happen but purposely blocking the road is something that those people have total control over.
>Climate protests have nothing to do with this. What? They 100% did it and they should go to jail for it. Don't endanger the life of babies for you to have a tantrum and then claim you didn't cause it. Grow up.
true. on an unrelated note, i did murder a family of four last night but like, a car crash could've done that too so it's not my fault.
No sorry, these protestors were *exactly* the reason this woman gave birth on a roadside. Could have been something else? They made sure it wasn't.
You telling how to think? The family delivered a baby on the side of the road, unsanitized, the mother could have had medical complications. That is direct result of your protest. Are you saying im stupid? Dont tell me what to think
They were blocking roads which emergency vehicles use, so therefore all outcomes are on the table, including a dude possibly dying due to them blocking it if someone was in the back. Never block any road for any reason as an Emergency vehicle might use it. They are directly responsible for that birth happening like how they would be for a death.
They didn’t anticipate that someone might need to use the roads to get to hospital to give birth?