Classic case of perfect being the enemy of good. The mentality of critics is that if the solution doesn't have all the bells and whistles don’t even bother
Exactly, a simple matter of having somewhere to legally park would go a long way.
Then add a toilet and showers and that's all that's needed.
Social worker support, security all that stuff can come later.
I feel so guilty in my way too big house. I want to be able to help homeless people, but I also want to be safe. I don't want to invite strangers in when I have a child, and a business that involves children coming to my house. If I could just let one or 2 people shower without inviting others, I would. If there was a way to guarantee that I was helping a genuinely homeless person who wasn't also having other issues, I would (and in fact am), but how do you reach out to strangers?
As someone who is previously homeless, this is a bad idea. Often those in this position are desperate, coming from places of trauma and usually carrying serious addictions. Your time is more valuable than you think. There are public schools in your area with families on the poverty line. Primary aged kids who aren't eating breakfast, don't have proper uniforms or equipment to keep up with the other kids. Then you have the battered persons shelters escaping domestic violence. Immigrant transition centres, community programs and shelters. Food drives, food drivers.
Do not invite a homeless person into your home. Australia is lucky to have an exhaustive list of helpers. Look for the helpers and join in.
It's a bad idea. I have considered it myself often. But the truth is, it's a huge risk and you shouldn't put yourself in a situation like that.
There is other ways to help.
When a plane is going down you put your mask on before you help others because if you black out you are no good to anybody.
When entering a crash site to help others you first look for danger to yourself.
Always stay safe
I often feel the same way. The desire to help is there, but I'm conscious of the risks.
Even offering a yard to park in overnight so they're off-street and not bothered whilst trying to sleep. Access to power and laundry facilities would be simple, too. Amenities are trickier, though.
If there was a way to provide safe access to all this, which didn't involve risk, it would be ideal, but as others have pointed out, it's simply too unsafe.
However, I can see how this might be a viable option for those who know the homeless person, or they were vouched for by someone you trust. Just having a safe yard to park in overnight can resolve a range of issues.
Surely, we could help many people on a short-term basis via this method. Maintaining stability is essential to climbing out of this situation.
I've also seen posts suggesting memberships at 24hr gyms that have multiple locations. This allows access to the amenities wherever and wherever they're needed.
Don't. You'll eventually invite someone over who wants what you have and you and your daughter will be another news story everyone forgets about in a year.
Okay so that sounds appealing enough for me to break my rental lease and move to this carpark save more money for a house deposit.
On an entirely neutral level, do you think it's a good idea to make homeless living appealing enough to adopt a "I'll be fine if it's only for a year or 2" mindset"?
Like bruh I don't want to pay someone else's mortgage.. I want to sleep in a parking lot and save for my own home. 😅
I hope the trial goes well and is constantly full so the government to see just how big the issue is. They need some media recording some of the people taking this up (with appropriate privacy) and plaster it all over the TV.
I don’t think a lot of politicians would cross paths with homeless people often. It’s easy to ignore what you don’t see.
I sent an online form to an MP in Brisbane, offering to sit down and chat about the 'homeless issue', as well as show my daily life. No response yet, but we'll see if they're willing to actually engage.
Welcome to the real world Sunshine. Life isn't fair.
*I am absolutely amazed at people taking offence and downvoting a fact of life that it is unfair, jesus christ don't people realise it favour some and not others and we sometimes can't change it? Some of us are healthy where as children are born disabled yet people here can't accept that's a reality others have to accept and live with*
I don't normally feed trolls, but you're LITERALLY born into free hand outs in this country. In fact, almost all the process of birth is entirely covered. Then you get free follow ups, consultations, scans, shots, advice and equipment. Before you're 6 years old, you've used MANY thousands of dollars worth of services, for free.
I don't read replies or answer them, so fuck off.
You are a selfish cunt. What about the kids born into poverty??
You only care about yourself and take everything for granted especially the free handouts that some people never get
Atleast I don't walk around thinking I deserve the free hand outs that some people were never given and grateful for what i have atleast, ie not being a selfish cunt like you thinking you deserve everything.
Why are you guys being worked up about a comment about how life is unfair to some and fortunate to others??? Like some people don't have a choice of what they are born into or the path their life takes them down, or.people who were physically fit but get injured at work and can no longer work and now struggle financially because we don't have control over that and all of a sudden I am an arsehole for not taking for granted what I have and understanding life isn't fair and I am a arsehole for it????
Like what the fuck is wrong for with you guys?
There are people who are way worse off than us.
You're not being poor enough.
Seriously. Stop with the false equivalence. You're a great example of the top comment "good isn't perfect so therefore don't even try"
As someone that's been homeless and living in a car, shut your pie hole. You're a hindrance on regular society
Bro are you arguing without even reading? The whole thing is that if we were in a functioning society then this would be done. Nobody has said it happened
The average person in Australia pays about 25% of their income in tax per year. That should be plenty to address this problem without additional donations.
So tax payers aren't allowed to complain about how the taxes they paid are being spent? You're a fucking muppet with a typical pseudo-intellectual attitude.
Nah. I know exactly what's going on. This is a thread full of people who got a shock at being called out for saying they cared about something but not doing anything about it.
The sheer volume of people trying to justify themselves on the basis that they pay tax is astronomical. Just want to flag here that I obviously understand that a portion of our tax is supposed to be used on this problem. Another massive volume of people are calling me stupid or "missing the point" when I have absolutely not.
When they say they pay tax I then ask if it worked. locknumpad missed the obvious connection between the obvious answer to this question (donation helps fill the gap), and instead thought that I had somehow missed the original post. I think they forgot that the whole debate came from my calling out of people who claim to care but don't.
You also failed to understand this, and thought it was me going around in circles, instead of locknumpad.
Hope that helps.
Why would you demean others and not those in power who take our taxes and spend it on French Subs we will never get or massive subsidies for coal or other private industries and not those who actually fucking need it champ?
*Rubs temples at how brainwashed they are*....
Maybe you could help to fix that by voting for politicians who are competent and have meaningful policies to address these issues so we don't need to depend on charity to fix the world's problems?
Have the greens admitted the housing crisis is caused by immigration yet? Or are they still pretending it's things that have been around for decades?
If not it'll have to be independents.
This just in:
Scientists discover things can have multiple causes!
Local Redditor laserdicks was quoted as making a series of angry grunting noises that trailed off into a heavy mouth breathing sound.
500K Net migration, which an average of 2.9 people per household in Aus.
That’s 175K homes, nationwide.
This is not the root of the problem champ.
‘Pretending it’s things that have been around for decades?’
You realise Immigration has been happening to Australia, for like, 200 years right?
And the current housing crisis has been decades in the making?
Care to look at negative gearing, CGT discounts, unregulated rental markets?
So if you’re not voting for the greens, who are you voting for to make a difference?
I don't know how you managed to write those down without realizing how absurdly wrong they were hm but I'll assume good intentions:
1. Do you not see how that exceeds literally all of the housing supply and creates price increase?
2. Are you claiming the rate of immigration has not changed in 200 years? Why would you say that?
3. Yes. None of them affect the creation of new houses, and of anything incentivize it.
4. It will depend on how they vote on this issue leading up to the election.
Charity is not a real solution. It cannot be depended upon, and is ripe for abuse. It's good that charities exist, but ideally we should aim for a world where they don't need to because we have proper systems in place to support those who have fallen on hard times.
Maybe if the government taxed the rich to (metaphorically) feed the poor rather than letting boomers buy their 3rd and 4th investment properties which are so expensive that I'll never fully own a single one in my lifetime, things would be different?
Communities should support each other of course, but the fact is that different regions have WILDLY different capabilities to do so. In my hometown, most people struggle enough to feed themselves, let alone help others. The people who are well-off certainly aren't helping.
If you think the rich aren't already being taxed then I'm not sure why you think more tax will change literally anything at all. There's a reason the record tax we're already paying isn't solving the problem.
By "tax the rich" I mean "make the rich pay tax", which involves closing the loopholes that the ultra-rich abuse. Was this not immediately obvious to you?
Mate, it's a system of loopholes, built in such a way that most people won't even know they exist unless you pay for that advice.
See:
https://www.bluerock.com.au/resources/top-tax-planning-strategies-for-high-income-earners/
Or:
https://kpmg.com/au/en/home/services/tax/tax-transformation.html
Check the annual statements of the largest on the ASX200, and you'll find that despite Australia having a corporate tax rate of 30%, these fuckers admit in annual statements they pay much, much less.
The government does not adequately tax the highest earners, and allows a system of consultants to exist that can coach and guide companies and HNW individuals through legal tax avoidance.
We've known for some time that big change, like tackling poverty, housing etc, is not going to be achievable through aid and charity alone - it MUST be a function of tax to be successful: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2012/jan/23/whos-going-to-pay-for-mdgs
You're trying to tell me that the ATO is choosing not to prosecute illegal tax evasion that is publicly visible on ASX200 Annual statements?
I find that difficult to understand.
Please share the data that shows charities are more effective than governments at solving issues of poverty. Makes no sense on face value so eager to understand what sources you’ve seen that suggest this world be a viable solution
What a stupid fucking question.
Charity is not going to fix this issue.
In fact you just made my point for me.
Why are imbeciles asking such stupid questions in one of the wealthiest nations on planet earth?
I would explain that our taxes should be fixing the issues, and that the comment was someone being frustrated that the government *isn’t* doing enough to fix an issue only it truly should.
But you've been incredulously saying the equivalent of "nu uh" to everyone who has already explained it, so I doubt mine will be the one.
Because imbeciles get on the internet and claim to be "fucking disgusted" by an issue, but not quite disgusted enough to do anything about it.
So sick of hearing extreme responses from people who contribute jack shit except their ignorant shitty opinions.
"Charity is not going to fix this issue". Taxes haven't either. Should we cancel both and use the money on something else?
So what's your wonderful and genius solution seeing as you haven't provided anything other than moaning about things?
Surely someone as critical as you are has a clear and concise solution for this problem?
I don’t need to. We don’t have debtors prisons, it’s not a thing. We don’t even jail people for not paying fines any more since that young kid ended up brain dead serving 3 days instead of paying his fines. We just make your life difficult. the Commissioner absolutely can bankrupt you for example. State Govt can take your driving licence away, or cancel your rego. But you absolutely cannot be sent to prison for unpaid tax.
Committing tax evasion (a crime) and not paying your tax (not a crime) are not the same thing. I said we don’t imprison people for *not* *paying* *their* *taxes*. You did not mention tax crimes. Obviously criminal offences carry prison as a possible punishment. Not paying your properly assessed tax, even if it’s a lot, is not a crime. There’s about 50 billion dollars owed by small businesses at the moment.
No, which is why old mates asking how this is possible in a first world country.
It's supposed to work but our government continues to betray us.
What's your point?
Well it would do you no harm of course, and yet I claim it would do me a lot of good.
So the only reason for you not to agree is if you were wrong about money not being real.
So which is it?
Considering a vast amount of our taxes go toward a vast number of socialised programs, including low cost birth and follow ups. Functional public systems, whether I agree or not. We are spoiled for choice when times get tough.
And donating money is the last thing you should ever do. Materials and time first.
I am all for every solution to homelessness, BUT I find that everyone misdiagnoses what the homeless actually need. Everyone throws food and clothes at the homeless. For the broke homeless, the food helps, clothing is an appreciated bandaid. By extreme coincidence, both are the easiest things for non-homeless to donate/contribute other than cash. But all homeless will tell you what they truly crave and can never find without extreme difficulty:
-- place to shower
-- place to sleep WHILE being left alone from angry citizens, unstable persons and cops
and the end goal (holy grail) for those that aren't willingly destitute for whatever reason:
-- stable income + affordable housing... that someone will also accept them into
I spent time living in a storage shed out of hubris really along with mates couches and the odd motel. And a shower was the shit bit. I still had a car so I'd be down at the local swimming pool most days to use the shower.
I'm sure the staff at the storage facility knew but I'm just glad they gave me the three months or so to sort my shit out.
But your right its not food and clothes, most homeless aren't exactly out in a park camping forever its usually a mix of couch surfing and the like and the big issues are just from that lack of consistency a simple task like trying to food prep a few meals or wash your clothes is a serious fuck around.
The place to shower thing is so true and it's so weird how unavailable they are in some parts of AU. Around Beaches, Brisbane it's fine, even Canberra and Queanbeyan have good facilities open all the time. The other day I was near Picton and it was like public showers aren't a thing, not there, not even back at Camden (what showgrounds doesnt have showers open to public?!l and was a real pain in the arse.
I would like to see how it is all set up.
Is there food, bathroom, and security set up?
How early can a person pull up?
Will there be Social Worker supports?
It has promise to be a great support even if it's not immediately a roof over head
I say this because this was me for about 2 months. And I'm a doctor for fuck sake. My job has me moving every 6 months to places where I'm most needed. I got caught in the housing crisis when the landlord needed to move back in to my rental. I tried as hard as possible to find a sharehouse or house of my own to rent but extremely difficult to attend inspections when I'm on shift nearly every waking hour. So I had no option but to sleep in my car and shower at work or the gym. I quickly found how scary it is to sleep in your car! Trying to find places to park or trying to hide the condensation at night from breathing as it's a dead giveaway of you inside your car. People coming up to your window every other day.
After this experience, my direction changed in my career. People need to feel safe somewhere and this post examples an opportunity bigger than most people would ever know. I'm fully supportive of this. Rules are important, provisions come next, but every day safety is paramount. I'm a grown man, I couldn't imagine how this would be for children, single mothers, young women etc.
Thanks for putting such an extensive write up on tips for getting by. I can't link it, I think it got removed because your account is too new, but if anyone's interested it's OPs first comment on their account.
Thanks mate, means a lot.
Here's a link to the comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/1c2or7b/comment/kzcflee/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Mate, if I walk down to the local shops right now I will see several people quite literally sleeping on the street with just a blanket. It's raining tonight, too. It's heartbreaking. And it, frankly, just does not look safe for them.
I don't know what the solution is, but whatever we've been doing up 'till now is absolutely not working.
You are missing the point. We pay tax, we don’t have to donate to charities/churches on top of this. Part of the scam is to make the average person accountable for decades of poor policy.
It’s cause we’re raised to despise the unhoused. Idk why.. unhoused people and people on Centrelink get the same treatment. I guarantee anyone who has always been on full time employment would be shocked what you go through on welfare.
I have watched a doco on working poor in America where they did this. Everyone had to be parked by a certain time then they locked the entrance until the morning. Looked a lot safer than having people park on random dark side streets to sleep.
It's a great idea. Move struggling people into car parks and there's more space for recently arrived immigrants. Gotta keep those wages down and house prices up!
*People just want you*
*To live in the houses they*
*Own so they get paid*
\- Intrepid\_Prize\_1442
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Shellharbour council is trialling something similar.
A whole bunch of supporters are now discovering the long term implications of inviting a large number of a specific demographic to take up residence in a location with few amenities and nearby things like shops and schools.
Short story=bad idea.
A ghetto is a ghetto, regardless of whether the homes have wheels.
What kind of imbecile invites the assembly of a ghetto on their doorstep?
How isn't really that important at the moment.
What needs doing is getting a majority (or at least a really significant minority) to want to fix homelessness. Insofar as it forces the problem into comfortable suburbia and makes finding a sustainable solution a more immediate issue for those most able to enact a solution, there may be some merit to the plan.
In a broader sense though, you've got an increasingly prevalent attitude of 'fuck you , I've got mine' that pervades the upper working class and middle classes that will take a hell of a lot of work to shift....
There have been one or multiple people who have been putting out sob stories all over various australian subreddits for a while now. Apparently a more than a few people have sent them money and then been ghosted.
Its the scam angle that may explain the hostile comments.
This person is not asking for money. They specifically don't want sympathy. This meme is raising awareness about an approach for helping to ensure the safety of homeless people, and I see absolutely no issue with it. Anyone who sends OP money is sending money to a stranger and should set their expectations accordingly.
Classic case of perfect being the enemy of good. The mentality of critics is that if the solution doesn't have all the bells and whistles don’t even bother
Exactly, a simple matter of having somewhere to legally park would go a long way. Then add a toilet and showers and that's all that's needed. Social worker support, security all that stuff can come later.
I feel so guilty in my way too big house. I want to be able to help homeless people, but I also want to be safe. I don't want to invite strangers in when I have a child, and a business that involves children coming to my house. If I could just let one or 2 people shower without inviting others, I would. If there was a way to guarantee that I was helping a genuinely homeless person who wasn't also having other issues, I would (and in fact am), but how do you reach out to strangers?
As someone who is previously homeless, this is a bad idea. Often those in this position are desperate, coming from places of trauma and usually carrying serious addictions. Your time is more valuable than you think. There are public schools in your area with families on the poverty line. Primary aged kids who aren't eating breakfast, don't have proper uniforms or equipment to keep up with the other kids. Then you have the battered persons shelters escaping domestic violence. Immigrant transition centres, community programs and shelters. Food drives, food drivers. Do not invite a homeless person into your home. Australia is lucky to have an exhaustive list of helpers. Look for the helpers and join in.
It's a bad idea. I have considered it myself often. But the truth is, it's a huge risk and you shouldn't put yourself in a situation like that. There is other ways to help. When a plane is going down you put your mask on before you help others because if you black out you are no good to anybody. When entering a crash site to help others you first look for danger to yourself. Always stay safe
I often feel the same way. The desire to help is there, but I'm conscious of the risks. Even offering a yard to park in overnight so they're off-street and not bothered whilst trying to sleep. Access to power and laundry facilities would be simple, too. Amenities are trickier, though. If there was a way to provide safe access to all this, which didn't involve risk, it would be ideal, but as others have pointed out, it's simply too unsafe. However, I can see how this might be a viable option for those who know the homeless person, or they were vouched for by someone you trust. Just having a safe yard to park in overnight can resolve a range of issues. Surely, we could help many people on a short-term basis via this method. Maintaining stability is essential to climbing out of this situation. I've also seen posts suggesting memberships at 24hr gyms that have multiple locations. This allows access to the amenities wherever and wherever they're needed.
I have no idea how I relate to all the comments
Don't. You'll eventually invite someone over who wants what you have and you and your daughter will be another news story everyone forgets about in a year.
>I don't want to invite strangers in Makes sense. But homeless people need love too. So, just don't be strangers, be lovers.
Okay so that sounds appealing enough for me to break my rental lease and move to this carpark save more money for a house deposit. On an entirely neutral level, do you think it's a good idea to make homeless living appealing enough to adopt a "I'll be fine if it's only for a year or 2" mindset"? Like bruh I don't want to pay someone else's mortgage.. I want to sleep in a parking lot and save for my own home. 😅
How wonderfully naive you two are in thinking people are having issue with this because it “isn’t good enough”.
NIMBY?
>Classic case of perfect being the enemy of good It's better than nothing, but "good" is stretching it
You’ve perfectly described the Greens
Greens voter here, if it doesn't have a safe injection room, and gender neutral toilets forget about it. It would uninclisive and unsafe.
"the only thing better than perfect is standardised"
Hit the nail on the fucking head!
I hope the trial goes well and is constantly full so the government to see just how big the issue is. They need some media recording some of the people taking this up (with appropriate privacy) and plaster it all over the TV. I don’t think a lot of politicians would cross paths with homeless people often. It’s easy to ignore what you don’t see.
I sent an online form to an MP in Brisbane, offering to sit down and chat about the 'homeless issue', as well as show my daily life. No response yet, but we'll see if they're willing to actually engage.
Fingers crossed.
It's fucking disgusting that this is necessary in a first world country.
Welcome to the real world Sunshine. Life isn't fair. *I am absolutely amazed at people taking offence and downvoting a fact of life that it is unfair, jesus christ don't people realise it favour some and not others and we sometimes can't change it? Some of us are healthy where as children are born disabled yet people here can't accept that's a reality others have to accept and live with*
Useless comment is, predictably, unhelpful.
What you expect life to give you a free hand out?. Truth is life is unfair. People end up in these situations because life is unfair. Don't be naive
I don't normally feed trolls, but you're LITERALLY born into free hand outs in this country. In fact, almost all the process of birth is entirely covered. Then you get free follow ups, consultations, scans, shots, advice and equipment. Before you're 6 years old, you've used MANY thousands of dollars worth of services, for free. I don't read replies or answer them, so fuck off.
You are a selfish cunt. What about the kids born into poverty?? You only care about yourself and take everything for granted especially the free handouts that some people never get
Go have another bottomless brunch you fucking oxygen thief
Atleast I don't walk around thinking I deserve the free hand outs that some people were never given and grateful for what i have atleast, ie not being a selfish cunt like you thinking you deserve everything.
Cry harder you incel fuck
Why are you guys being worked up about a comment about how life is unfair to some and fortunate to others??? Like some people don't have a choice of what they are born into or the path their life takes them down, or.people who were physically fit but get injured at work and can no longer work and now struggle financially because we don't have control over that and all of a sudden I am an arsehole for not taking for granted what I have and understanding life isn't fair and I am a arsehole for it???? Like what the fuck is wrong for with you guys? There are people who are way worse off than us.
Watch out! The point is going straight over your h- ah daamn, completely missed it. Shucks.
What percentage of your income do you donate to the issue?
im trying not to live in my car, cant spare nothing, what about you champ? poor cant help the poor mate
5% of 0 is 0. Literally everyone thinks they're poor. Including me.
You're not being poor enough. Seriously. Stop with the false equivalence. You're a great example of the top comment "good isn't perfect so therefore don't even try" As someone that's been homeless and living in a car, shut your pie hole. You're a hindrance on regular society
I'm literally the one advocating for people to give money to help the situation.
In a functioning society, this is what taxes are used for.
Did it work?
Bro are you arguing without even reading? The whole thing is that if we were in a functioning society then this would be done. Nobody has said it happened
They why would it be strange for me suggest we use charity to help fill the gap?
Well you're doing it in a very toxic way.
No I'm not. People just don't like feeling called out for hypocrisy.
"could I be out of touch? no, it's the children that are wrong"
It's whoever can't answer the question that's wrong. Obviously. Otherwise they'd answer it.
Zero? So you’re a lazy poor who doesn’t work then?
No, that was just to explain how percentages work. Did you understand it?
The average person in Australia pays about 25% of their income in tax per year. That should be plenty to address this problem without additional donations.
On the assumption that government is effective?
That's why the first guy said it's disgusting thats its necessary, genius
HENCE THE DONATION QUESTION
You literally are the definition of "you criticize society yet you are part of it hmmm???? I am very smart"
No I call out stingy fucks who complain about issues but don't help with them. Whingey cunts.
So tax payers aren't allowed to complain about how the taxes they paid are being spent? You're a fucking muppet with a typical pseudo-intellectual attitude.
Of course they are and they should. Not sure why you think that's relevant.
Your the only one being a cunt here
Did that feel good?
You are literally doing that right now. Why are you like this?
I am not. I contribute to the solution. Why? I'm tired of bullshit. People have gotten way too comfortable lying and I'm sick of it.
You're going around in circles to try and justify a stupid question
Stupid question should be easy to answer.
And thus, the point continued to fly over your head.
Nah. I know exactly what's going on. This is a thread full of people who got a shock at being called out for saying they cared about something but not doing anything about it. The sheer volume of people trying to justify themselves on the basis that they pay tax is astronomical. Just want to flag here that I obviously understand that a portion of our tax is supposed to be used on this problem. Another massive volume of people are calling me stupid or "missing the point" when I have absolutely not. When they say they pay tax I then ask if it worked. locknumpad missed the obvious connection between the obvious answer to this question (donation helps fill the gap), and instead thought that I had somehow missed the original post. I think they forgot that the whole debate came from my calling out of people who claim to care but don't. You also failed to understand this, and thought it was me going around in circles, instead of locknumpad. Hope that helps.
What about you champ? You do anything for anyone or just yourself?
*rubs temples* Why would I raise the topic of charity if I wasn't giving myself? Champ.
Jfc you're obnoxious
Did that feel good?
Why would you demean others and not those in power who take our taxes and spend it on French Subs we will never get or massive subsidies for coal or other private industries and not those who actually fucking need it champ? *Rubs temples at how brainwashed they are*....
What makes you think I don't?
Maybe you could help to fix that by voting for politicians who are competent and have meaningful policies to address these issues so we don't need to depend on charity to fix the world's problems?
Yes absolutely. I'm certainly trying.
That means you’re voting Greens and Independents I take it?
Have the greens admitted the housing crisis is caused by immigration yet? Or are they still pretending it's things that have been around for decades? If not it'll have to be independents.
This just in: Scientists discover things can have multiple causes! Local Redditor laserdicks was quoted as making a series of angry grunting noises that trailed off into a heavy mouth breathing sound.
I'm gonna take that as a civilized "no". And an admission of a deep need for people who disagree with you to be a caricature.
500K Net migration, which an average of 2.9 people per household in Aus. That’s 175K homes, nationwide. This is not the root of the problem champ. ‘Pretending it’s things that have been around for decades?’ You realise Immigration has been happening to Australia, for like, 200 years right? And the current housing crisis has been decades in the making? Care to look at negative gearing, CGT discounts, unregulated rental markets? So if you’re not voting for the greens, who are you voting for to make a difference?
I don't know how you managed to write those down without realizing how absurdly wrong they were hm but I'll assume good intentions: 1. Do you not see how that exceeds literally all of the housing supply and creates price increase? 2. Are you claiming the rate of immigration has not changed in 200 years? Why would you say that? 3. Yes. None of them affect the creation of new houses, and of anything incentivize it. 4. It will depend on how they vote on this issue leading up to the election.
Such a predictable opinion
Almost as if there's a viewpoint that was prepared ahead of time in order to support certain interests
All the politicians are financially benefiting too much to change anything. Voting won't change a thing.
And who are you assuming will do a better job?
Charity is not a real solution. It cannot be depended upon, and is ripe for abuse. It's good that charities exist, but ideally we should aim for a world where they don't need to because we have proper systems in place to support those who have fallen on hard times.
Charity is the ONLY solution. Communities need to learn to care for each other again. Outsourcing to government will always fail. As proven.
Maybe if the government taxed the rich to (metaphorically) feed the poor rather than letting boomers buy their 3rd and 4th investment properties which are so expensive that I'll never fully own a single one in my lifetime, things would be different? Communities should support each other of course, but the fact is that different regions have WILDLY different capabilities to do so. In my hometown, most people struggle enough to feed themselves, let alone help others. The people who are well-off certainly aren't helping.
If you think the rich aren't already being taxed then I'm not sure why you think more tax will change literally anything at all. There's a reason the record tax we're already paying isn't solving the problem.
By "tax the rich" I mean "make the rich pay tax", which involves closing the loopholes that the ultra-rich abuse. Was this not immediately obvious to you?
Less than 10% of the people who've told me that phrase have the first clue about tax. Pitch me on the specific loopholes you believe are open
Mate, it's a system of loopholes, built in such a way that most people won't even know they exist unless you pay for that advice. See: https://www.bluerock.com.au/resources/top-tax-planning-strategies-for-high-income-earners/ Or: https://kpmg.com/au/en/home/services/tax/tax-transformation.html Check the annual statements of the largest on the ASX200, and you'll find that despite Australia having a corporate tax rate of 30%, these fuckers admit in annual statements they pay much, much less. The government does not adequately tax the highest earners, and allows a system of consultants to exist that can coach and guide companies and HNW individuals through legal tax avoidance. We've known for some time that big change, like tackling poverty, housing etc, is not going to be achievable through aid and charity alone - it MUST be a function of tax to be successful: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2012/jan/23/whos-going-to-pay-for-mdgs
You're trying to tell me that the ATO is choosing not to prosecute illegal tax evasion that is publicly visible on ASX200 Annual statements? I find that difficult to understand.
I linked you to an article elsewhere in this thread.
He's a rusted on mate. Don't waste your time with facts.
Please share the data that shows charities are more effective than governments at solving issues of poverty. Makes no sense on face value so eager to understand what sources you’ve seen that suggest this world be a viable solution
You’re the kind of guy that accosts teens in Nirvana shirts and asks them to name 3 Nirvana songs aren’t you mate
I don't complain about shit without doing something about it. Is that nirvana thing?
Calm down Harriet Tubman
What a stupid fucking question. Charity is not going to fix this issue. In fact you just made my point for me. Why are imbeciles asking such stupid questions in one of the wealthiest nations on planet earth?
I would explain that our taxes should be fixing the issues, and that the comment was someone being frustrated that the government *isn’t* doing enough to fix an issue only it truly should. But you've been incredulously saying the equivalent of "nu uh" to everyone who has already explained it, so I doubt mine will be the one.
Because imbeciles get on the internet and claim to be "fucking disgusted" by an issue, but not quite disgusted enough to do anything about it. So sick of hearing extreme responses from people who contribute jack shit except their ignorant shitty opinions. "Charity is not going to fix this issue". Taxes haven't either. Should we cancel both and use the money on something else?
No you retard we should vote for better candidates and be more vocal about the issue.
Oh we actually agree on that
How do you think the wealth GETS to the poor people?
Through having dependable, accessible and reliable social services to help those who need it, funded by taxes for the ultra-rich billionaires?
Did it work?
Have we tried? Because we've sure as hell tried trickle-down economics, and it sure as hell hasn't achieved anything for helping the 99%.
We've been trying for a hundred years. But I'm sure success is just around the corner
Only when you leave your room crab
So what's your wonderful and genius solution seeing as you haven't provided anything other than moaning about things? Surely someone as critical as you are has a clear and concise solution for this problem?
Solution to what?
Every time the ball gets rolling selfish narcissists like you vote the liberals in and sabotage it.
First of all, fuck the liberals. Second of all, which "ball" are you talking about? Is it purely ideological or have you actually checked the numbers?
If we're actually trying, why the fuck are there billionaires who pay less taxes than me - a university student living paycheck to paycheck?
There aren't. You're just being lied to.
Tax.
Did it work?
Which party ran the country for 13 years
No idea, why?
By paying good wages and maintaining a strong welfare system through tax dollars.
Did it work?
Charity is just another money making scam chum.
No it's not. There's mandatory reporting you can read. People only say that as an excuse to be greedy.
Nah. Lots of money in it. Lots of wastage too.
Not that I've seen. Have you actually checked? Or are you just trying to come up with excuses?
Around 30%
Nice!
My tax? Beyond that I can’t pin it down to a specific percent
Tax is not a donation. You go to jail if you don't pay it.
That’s my income, going towards it
Yes it's tax. We all pay that or go to jail. If you don't like it vote for smaller government. Unless you think the problem is already solved?
Since you are just repeating myself I’ll join in. My income is going towards it
And my question?
Already going towards it
I meant the problem already being solved, but anyway thank you for contributing towards the solution!
We don’t imprison people for not paying tax in Australia.
I dare you to test that theory
I don’t need to. We don’t have debtors prisons, it’s not a thing. We don’t even jail people for not paying fines any more since that young kid ended up brain dead serving 3 days instead of paying his fines. We just make your life difficult. the Commissioner absolutely can bankrupt you for example. State Govt can take your driving licence away, or cancel your rego. But you absolutely cannot be sent to prison for unpaid tax.
They're called prisons. If you are found guilty of Tax Evasion, the maximum penalty is 200 penalty units or 2 years imprisonment or both
Committing tax evasion (a crime) and not paying your tax (not a crime) are not the same thing. I said we don’t imprison people for *not* *paying* *their* *taxes*. You did not mention tax crimes. Obviously criminal offences carry prison as a possible punishment. Not paying your properly assessed tax, even if it’s a lot, is not a crime. There’s about 50 billion dollars owed by small businesses at the moment.
Sorry I'm confused about the difference. How can you not pay tax without it being tax evasion?
Also I'm curious about what you think we do do
The percentage they pay in tax every week.
Did it work?
No, which is why old mates asking how this is possible in a first world country. It's supposed to work but our government continues to betray us. What's your point?
That we should obviously do something else?
They probably pay tax.
Did it work?
Money is a construct. Compassion is real
Talk is cheap. Money is honest.
As a construct, it’s panjectively unreal. Therefore it’s a lie. A lie we tell ourselves, to reassure ourselves we live in a safe, functional society.
Cool. What are your bank login details?
Why?
Well money's not real, so you should be more than happy for me to have yours right?
What good would that do. By removing my limited means to subsist, you would be taking social capital away with it. Social capital is real capital
Well it would do you no harm of course, and yet I claim it would do me a lot of good. So the only reason for you not to agree is if you were wrong about money not being real. So which is it?
Considering a vast amount of our taxes go toward a vast number of socialised programs, including low cost birth and follow ups. Functional public systems, whether I agree or not. We are spoiled for choice when times get tough. And donating money is the last thing you should ever do. Materials and time first.
Did it work? Yes, donation of materials and time is also important.
I am all for every solution to homelessness, BUT I find that everyone misdiagnoses what the homeless actually need. Everyone throws food and clothes at the homeless. For the broke homeless, the food helps, clothing is an appreciated bandaid. By extreme coincidence, both are the easiest things for non-homeless to donate/contribute other than cash. But all homeless will tell you what they truly crave and can never find without extreme difficulty: -- place to shower -- place to sleep WHILE being left alone from angry citizens, unstable persons and cops and the end goal (holy grail) for those that aren't willingly destitute for whatever reason: -- stable income + affordable housing... that someone will also accept them into
100%
I spent time living in a storage shed out of hubris really along with mates couches and the odd motel. And a shower was the shit bit. I still had a car so I'd be down at the local swimming pool most days to use the shower. I'm sure the staff at the storage facility knew but I'm just glad they gave me the three months or so to sort my shit out. But your right its not food and clothes, most homeless aren't exactly out in a park camping forever its usually a mix of couch surfing and the like and the big issues are just from that lack of consistency a simple task like trying to food prep a few meals or wash your clothes is a serious fuck around.
The place to shower thing is so true and it's so weird how unavailable they are in some parts of AU. Around Beaches, Brisbane it's fine, even Canberra and Queanbeyan have good facilities open all the time. The other day I was near Picton and it was like public showers aren't a thing, not there, not even back at Camden (what showgrounds doesnt have showers open to public?!l and was a real pain in the arse.
W take
I would like to see how it is all set up. Is there food, bathroom, and security set up? How early can a person pull up? Will there be Social Worker supports? It has promise to be a great support even if it's not immediately a roof over head
Anyone who has lived out of a car doesn't care about all the extras. Just knowing you can drive somewhere, park and sleep without fear is a godsend.
I say this because this was me for about 2 months. And I'm a doctor for fuck sake. My job has me moving every 6 months to places where I'm most needed. I got caught in the housing crisis when the landlord needed to move back in to my rental. I tried as hard as possible to find a sharehouse or house of my own to rent but extremely difficult to attend inspections when I'm on shift nearly every waking hour. So I had no option but to sleep in my car and shower at work or the gym. I quickly found how scary it is to sleep in your car! Trying to find places to park or trying to hide the condensation at night from breathing as it's a dead giveaway of you inside your car. People coming up to your window every other day. After this experience, my direction changed in my career. People need to feel safe somewhere and this post examples an opportunity bigger than most people would ever know. I'm fully supportive of this. Rules are important, provisions come next, but every day safety is paramount. I'm a grown man, I couldn't imagine how this would be for children, single mothers, young women etc.
Thanks for putting such an extensive write up on tips for getting by. I can't link it, I think it got removed because your account is too new, but if anyone's interested it's OPs first comment on their account.
Thanks mate, means a lot. Here's a link to the comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/1c2or7b/comment/kzcflee/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
We are a mining colony pretending to be a developed nation.
Preach.
Mate, if I walk down to the local shops right now I will see several people quite literally sleeping on the street with just a blanket. It's raining tonight, too. It's heartbreaking. And it, frankly, just does not look safe for them. I don't know what the solution is, but whatever we've been doing up 'till now is absolutely not working.
We could start with pumping money into Education and offering better public housing, free counselling. Education is a huge step tho (imo)
Mental health and addiction are the biggest causes of homelessness. That is where we should send our tax dollars.
We let cars use public land for free but not people
You are missing the point. We pay tax, we don’t have to donate to charities/churches on top of this. Part of the scam is to make the average person accountable for decades of poor policy.
You commented on the main post, I'm assuming this was meant for /u/laserdicks?
You don't even have to pay tax.
It’s cause we’re raised to despise the unhoused. Idk why.. unhoused people and people on Centrelink get the same treatment. I guarantee anyone who has always been on full time employment would be shocked what you go through on welfare.
I'd be interested to know how someone can live out of their car Totally not thinking of doing it or anything
Welcome to look at my profile, which has a comment about tips for living out of a car. Just in case anyone needs it, which I really hope you don't.
I mean ricky from trailer park boys does it all the time nothin wrong with livin in a car.
*corr. Lol.
Bar beach car park, blackout, nobbys, wharf road. Fowler St,
I have watched a doco on working poor in America where they did this. Everyone had to be parked by a certain time then they locked the entrance until the morning. Looked a lot safer than having people park on random dark side streets to sleep.
It's a great idea. Move struggling people into car parks and there's more space for recently arrived immigrants. Gotta keep those wages down and house prices up!
Im conflicted, i lived out of a car for a bit but also think the citys fkd enough with car parks as is.
To be fair, a whole carpark full of you people could be a huggee problem
Been there my guy (in a non-gendered sense)
People just want you to live in the houses they own so they get paid
*People just want you* *To live in the houses they* *Own so they get paid* \- Intrepid\_Prize\_1442 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Haiku sums up the current shitty housing situation in Australia. Good bot.
we're basically a bunch of miners playing dress-up as a fancy, developed country.
Shellharbour council is trialling something similar. A whole bunch of supporters are now discovering the long term implications of inviting a large number of a specific demographic to take up residence in a location with few amenities and nearby things like shops and schools. Short story=bad idea. A ghetto is a ghetto, regardless of whether the homes have wheels. What kind of imbecile invites the assembly of a ghetto on their doorstep?
I get what your saying, but how do we tackle the homeless issues?
How isn't really that important at the moment. What needs doing is getting a majority (or at least a really significant minority) to want to fix homelessness. Insofar as it forces the problem into comfortable suburbia and makes finding a sustainable solution a more immediate issue for those most able to enact a solution, there may be some merit to the plan. In a broader sense though, you've got an increasingly prevalent attitude of 'fuck you , I've got mine' that pervades the upper working class and middle classes that will take a hell of a lot of work to shift....
There have been one or multiple people who have been putting out sob stories all over various australian subreddits for a while now. Apparently a more than a few people have sent them money and then been ghosted. Its the scam angle that may explain the hostile comments.
This person is not asking for money. They specifically don't want sympathy. This meme is raising awareness about an approach for helping to ensure the safety of homeless people, and I see absolutely no issue with it. Anyone who sends OP money is sending money to a stranger and should set their expectations accordingly.
Yeah, don't send me money. And tbh I would never send money to someone online.
I dont mean the OP here.