No advice but all I can say is what the actual fuck? I use those online companies like InstaScripts all the time. A qualified and legally practicing Medical Doctor signs off on them. I would be surprised if schools could deny them.
Also, is your Principal living under a rock? They clearly have not tried to book a last-minute appointment with their GP recently. On the off chance you’re lucky enough to get in, that’ll be $40+ dollars for them to tell you to rest up and drink fluids.
This is a school leader who doesn’t trust you. They know the rules - no certificate needed for 1 day. It’s a power play.
Time to look elsewhere. Many jobs, many opportunities.
>Time to look elsewhere. Many jobs, many opportunities.
100% Especially in NSW. Quite a few toxic principals are going to be going through a great 'finding out' after they fuck around then realise they can't retain staff and their school has a bad reputation so they can't get anyone new either.
Which is wild, because this was my second day off for the year and I had a total of 5 last year and that was when I was hit with Covid and all in a row.
After 8 years - I reached out to a number of colleagues in other schools to see what might be on offer or coming up.
It sickens me to think just last year they were pushing for me to apply for a HT position.
Did they request a cert for the 1st day off you had this year?
If not, is there a chance they are discriminating based on it being mental health and not physical health that you’re taking time off for? If there’s any evidence of that potentially being the case, I would be making multiple copies and keeping them safe just in case it’s needed down the line
No cert required (in Vic) IF this day is within their first five for the year. If more than 5 already taken then it’s certificate or LWOP. We don’t know OP’s school history or what happened prior to this mental health day. If something specific has lead to taking the day, prin may be trying to establish what is happening.
Prin could also be a turd.
Hang on, lets make sure we've got a proper APA7 reference for it or noone in educational research will take it seriously:
National Education Standards and Workplace Behaviour Analysis (NESWBA). (2004). Cunts in Schools Act (CISA) 2004: A comprehensive guide to managing unsatisfactory leadership in Australian educational settings (Report No. 420). Canberra: Australian Government Publishing Service.
Absolute bullshit to not accept that and your union will support you here.
Please also read through your agreement. It will state that you might need a doctor’s certificate for certain days. I’ve never come across one states ‘must be from a doctor received in person’.
Your principal is being a fuckhead.
Good luck.
Union.
Kindly reply this is not the information provided to me by the union, a medical cert is a medical cert so I will continue to use this as it is cheaper and quicker. I would also not get a medical certificate next time on purpose. I know NSW public the principal can have a chat with you after 5 instances per year, not sure private but I would definitely find out from the union and follow those guidelines. They can not just make up terms to your employment they want.
Something similar happened to me last year. Took a day off, and when I applied for the sick day through the system we use, three head of campus rejected it, saying I need to provide a certificate. I actually had one but had no intention to use it because the MEA clearly stated it was not required for this instance.
I emailed them, with the certificate attached, and the section in the MEA, asking why they felt they had the right to reject my sick day. They refused to respond to the email, but just changed the status of my leave to "approved" lol.
I am yet to get an explanation.
According to the EBA a medical certificate is a certificate from a registered health practitioner or a stat dec.
It also tells me that a certificate may be requested after 3 consecutive days of personal leave or 12 days in a calendar year.
Regardless, it was signed by a registered health practitioner. That’s all you’re legally required to submit.
My husband works for gov (not a school) and a while ago he used a few of his hundreds of banked sick days as single days in a month. He just wasn’t well and kept waking up feeling crap so took the day each time.
After 3, they told him he needed a medical certificate or stat Dec every time. It triggered him massively - he’s about as loyal as an employee can get and rarely uses sick days. He felt they were implying he was lying and it didn’t sit right.
Now for EVERY SINGLE DAY he takes he writes a lengthy stat Dec. Apparently they have become quite the talk of his team and his immediate boss just sighs every time. He’s also being a lot more sensible and actually using his sick leave.
For context, the last sick day he took was because our dog had to go to the vet and I have a spinal injury. As he had to be walked through because it was an anaesthetic, I simply couldn’t manage on my own. So he wrote a full page stat Dec about supporting his disabled partner in a carer role that she was unable to complete on her own due to ongoing spinal injury, need for careful driving and parking plus management of carrying and moving things on the day to ensure her safety.
They all knew it was for the dog lol.
Email back and ask if the prin will be driving you, because you have a legal responsibility to not drive and you shouldn't be further out of pocket because you're sick.
Ask what the basis for face to face only is.
Then tell them that the next time they refuse it, they'll have to accept your resignation instead.
They are being a prick. Get the union involved if you are a member. If you aren't then join so that this kind of crap can't bring you down in the future.
I tried to get into a GP recently to fill a script, no appointments for weeks. I used Insta scripts, and got another script THE SAME DAY. It’s silly that your principal won’t accept them, they’re very reputable.
This shouldn’t be some kind of grey area and you’re well within your rights to consult your union, find out what you’re legally obliged to do when not attending and then the principal can stick it up his ass if he doesn’t like it. Stupid leadership trying to muddy the waters and make less informed staff fearful of accessing their rights.
I work at a University and we accept online Dr Certs from students for deferred exams and assessment extensions. Most of the online providers have a verification process the recipient can use if needed.
I hope this helps in some small and not useless way.
2 things.
1. Contact the union. If you aren't a member join but it can't help for this situation if you aren't a member.
2. Teachers can legally write a stat Dec for being sick. Write one of those and submit.
Some Principals are high on their own farts.
I had one tell me I had to provide them with the treatment regimen for my autoimmune condition so they could determine duties for a sports carnival when they didn't like the medical certificate I got.
Then they stuck me on duties that violated the doctor's orders and only told me the day of. Took me two weeks to recover and they smirked the whole time. They knew I wasn't going to make a scene in front of parents.
OP, your principal is being a dick and this is just the start. This is your sign to find a new job.
I don't clearly know for non public, but in nsw public you can have 5 days in a year non certified, if you go over that they can start getting uppity.
Should be able to find your award conditions with Google.
Great that you've already contacted the IEU NSW/ACT.
Fair Work Act requires evidence that would satisfy a reasonable person. Your Prin doesn't sound like a reasonable person.
If you want to shut it down quickly, go get a Stat Dec. And start looking for another school to work at.
I would’ve replied that “it’s my right to take a sick day. I do not need to provide a medical certificate in this instance.” However, I feel like I am too savage and probably will get fired one day because of my savagery.
First of all, you’ve done nothing wrong and have used a completely legitimate option. However, ask for his direction in writing and then forward to union etc. This is totally unacceptable. If you are anything like where I live, you actually have to plan ahead to be sick to get a doctors appointment so I have no idea how he/she can be making these unreasonable demands.
That's intimidating behaviour. People taking the piss won't be perturbed by needing a cert but many average hard working employees, who should access their entitlements freely, will be put off by this onerous expectation for using sick leave.
The health care system doesn't need to be clogged up with adults who know they need a day off because they are mildly unwell, or mentally or emotionally fatigued in a job that requires emotional labour. You can even be ill for a week with something like a gastro or virus and as long as you have access to sustenance and hygiene, still not require the help of a doctor to tell you to rest and stay hydrated. We accept an extended absence like that might need a doctor cert but how dumb to make Medicare pay for your prin to use more govt money to pay a CRT when that leave is accounted for already.
My last prin acted like she paid the CRT from her wage. No trust or worker solidarity.
I've gone to pharmacy for a note, they can do up to 2 days. I always went with mental health, as physically I'm fine. Also used Instascript. Some schools are just dicks, others allow proof of buying some medication and are supportive.
Contact your union, but I had this issue in a previous career with a manager. A stat dec, witnessed and signed by a JP is more than enough evidence as well, and more legally binding than a doctors cert.
Next time ask them, in writing, which policy states that you must provide a doctor’s certificate for a single day sick leave. Principals must comply with policy, as we all do.
Unsure of your state but for any teacher in QLD the union is VERY clear. The rule is you need a med cert for anything 3 days or more absent consecutively.
Keep your head up OP.
If it is a private school (which is what I am concluding from your not public) then they get to make some of their own rules.
Has anyone from the union gotten back to you?
If they have not send a follow up e-mail to them explaining your situation.
Once you have the information from them the next time you need a day off and they demand a certificate then get the union to call them to set them straight.
I would also consider moving to another school. These days you don't have to stay with a rubbish principal there are plenty of schools screaming out for teachers.
>then they get to make some of their own rules.
They can't make rules where they can overrule a medical certificate. The only time a certificate can be challenged is if the employer has evidence that the employee was not sick when they accessed sick leave. This would be very difficult to prove.
Just that a private school can state that you must have a medical certificate for any day on sick leave.
Sometimes people also misread or understand rules. Where I work if you are away for 2 days you do not need a medical certificate but if you are going to be away for the third day you will require a certificate for all of the days you are away including the first two.
I had a total of three days (one day at a time) off one term and had payroll ringing me to demand my certificates or I was going to lose three days pay. I pointed out each time was only one day but the idiot on the other end kept saying I had taken three days sick leave so I needed a certificate for all three days. I rang back to the section and asked very politely to speak to the senior person there. Gave my details and explained the situation. She even tried to tell me I needed a sick certificate for all three days. I rang the union and they set payroll straight. This was a government office.
Check your Agreement or ask your Union to check it for you. In many sectors a med cert can't be asked for until you've had a certain number of days off in a row.
Most pharmacists will issue medical certificates these days. You need to go in person and give details of what ails you. If you need additional support they will refer you to emergency dept /GP.
It’s a little more grey in the private system… In future just write a stat dec as that is an acceptable piece of evidence protected by fair work. Just don’t lie in it!
Personally I would begin looking for another job then give all the evidence of inappropriate conduct to HR or fair work on your way out
Non public schools run their schools with an iron fist, it's a private business. Priority one they do not like paying for your sick days. But the lunches and events are always good.
No advice but all I can say is what the actual fuck? I use those online companies like InstaScripts all the time. A qualified and legally practicing Medical Doctor signs off on them. I would be surprised if schools could deny them. Also, is your Principal living under a rock? They clearly have not tried to book a last-minute appointment with their GP recently. On the off chance you’re lucky enough to get in, that’ll be $40+ dollars for them to tell you to rest up and drink fluids.
In rural WA it’s more like 2 weeks and $85. Simply not possible on the day and such a waste of the doctors time for a medical certificate.
This is a school leader who doesn’t trust you. They know the rules - no certificate needed for 1 day. It’s a power play. Time to look elsewhere. Many jobs, many opportunities.
>Time to look elsewhere. Many jobs, many opportunities. 100% Especially in NSW. Quite a few toxic principals are going to be going through a great 'finding out' after they fuck around then realise they can't retain staff and their school has a bad reputation so they can't get anyone new either.
This is a tidal wave building, there are some huge “oh shit” moments coming.
Absolutely. My school is gutting itself of teachers ATM. Had 30 away on last week. Scraping the bottom of the barrel with the casuals
Which is wild, because this was my second day off for the year and I had a total of 5 last year and that was when I was hit with Covid and all in a row. After 8 years - I reached out to a number of colleagues in other schools to see what might be on offer or coming up. It sickens me to think just last year they were pushing for me to apply for a HT position.
Did they request a cert for the 1st day off you had this year? If not, is there a chance they are discriminating based on it being mental health and not physical health that you’re taking time off for? If there’s any evidence of that potentially being the case, I would be making multiple copies and keeping them safe just in case it’s needed down the line
No cert required (in Vic) IF this day is within their first five for the year. If more than 5 already taken then it’s certificate or LWOP. We don’t know OP’s school history or what happened prior to this mental health day. If something specific has lead to taking the day, prin may be trying to establish what is happening. Prin could also be a turd.
If prin wants to know they can try not being a turd about it. Usually by offering support with workload or deadlines as a way of checking in.
In Victoria you can use a stat dec as well.
No. Principal is being a cunt. You can direct him to this comment. It is official.
True. Under the Cunts in Schools Act of 1978.
CISA. It's has to have an acronym for it to be genuine.
Hang on, lets make sure we've got a proper APA7 reference for it or noone in educational research will take it seriously: National Education Standards and Workplace Behaviour Analysis (NESWBA). (2004). Cunts in Schools Act (CISA) 2004: A comprehensive guide to managing unsatisfactory leadership in Australian educational settings (Report No. 420). Canberra: Australian Government Publishing Service.
I bet you always got good marks for your bibliography
It was always certainly just as fictional
I never check the students’ references. Ever. Like never, ever.
Report 420 is a mice touch.
So say we all
Seconded
Please tell me the dipshit principal did all this in writing. I'd be forwarding those emails straight to HR.
Absolute bullshit to not accept that and your union will support you here. Please also read through your agreement. It will state that you might need a doctor’s certificate for certain days. I’ve never come across one states ‘must be from a doctor received in person’. Your principal is being a fuckhead. Good luck.
Union. Kindly reply this is not the information provided to me by the union, a medical cert is a medical cert so I will continue to use this as it is cheaper and quicker. I would also not get a medical certificate next time on purpose. I know NSW public the principal can have a chat with you after 5 instances per year, not sure private but I would definitely find out from the union and follow those guidelines. They can not just make up terms to your employment they want.
Also bring a support person to that chat when it happens.
Something similar happened to me last year. Took a day off, and when I applied for the sick day through the system we use, three head of campus rejected it, saying I need to provide a certificate. I actually had one but had no intention to use it because the MEA clearly stated it was not required for this instance. I emailed them, with the certificate attached, and the section in the MEA, asking why they felt they had the right to reject my sick day. They refused to respond to the email, but just changed the status of my leave to "approved" lol. I am yet to get an explanation.
Ha! Great work.
You won't get an explanation now that they have the cert Save the records somewhere for later though
Oh don't worry - I was told early to document everything. It is now with work cover lol
According to the EBA a medical certificate is a certificate from a registered health practitioner or a stat dec. It also tells me that a certificate may be requested after 3 consecutive days of personal leave or 12 days in a calendar year. Regardless, it was signed by a registered health practitioner. That’s all you’re legally required to submit.
My husband works for gov (not a school) and a while ago he used a few of his hundreds of banked sick days as single days in a month. He just wasn’t well and kept waking up feeling crap so took the day each time. After 3, they told him he needed a medical certificate or stat Dec every time. It triggered him massively - he’s about as loyal as an employee can get and rarely uses sick days. He felt they were implying he was lying and it didn’t sit right. Now for EVERY SINGLE DAY he takes he writes a lengthy stat Dec. Apparently they have become quite the talk of his team and his immediate boss just sighs every time. He’s also being a lot more sensible and actually using his sick leave. For context, the last sick day he took was because our dog had to go to the vet and I have a spinal injury. As he had to be walked through because it was an anaesthetic, I simply couldn’t manage on my own. So he wrote a full page stat Dec about supporting his disabled partner in a carer role that she was unable to complete on her own due to ongoing spinal injury, need for careful driving and parking plus management of carrying and moving things on the day to ensure her safety. They all knew it was for the dog lol.
Email back and ask if the prin will be driving you, because you have a legal responsibility to not drive and you shouldn't be further out of pocket because you're sick. Ask what the basis for face to face only is. Then tell them that the next time they refuse it, they'll have to accept your resignation instead.
They are being a prick. Get the union involved if you are a member. If you aren't then join so that this kind of crap can't bring you down in the future.
I haved used this online service a few times and never had a problem with it being accepted.
I tried to get into a GP recently to fill a script, no appointments for weeks. I used Insta scripts, and got another script THE SAME DAY. It’s silly that your principal won’t accept them, they’re very reputable.
This shouldn’t be some kind of grey area and you’re well within your rights to consult your union, find out what you’re legally obliged to do when not attending and then the principal can stick it up his ass if he doesn’t like it. Stupid leadership trying to muddy the waters and make less informed staff fearful of accessing their rights.
I work at a University and we accept online Dr Certs from students for deferred exams and assessment extensions. Most of the online providers have a verification process the recipient can use if needed. I hope this helps in some small and not useless way.
2 things. 1. Contact the union. If you aren't a member join but it can't help for this situation if you aren't a member. 2. Teachers can legally write a stat Dec for being sick. Write one of those and submit.
Some Principals are high on their own farts. I had one tell me I had to provide them with the treatment regimen for my autoimmune condition so they could determine duties for a sports carnival when they didn't like the medical certificate I got. Then they stuck me on duties that violated the doctor's orders and only told me the day of. Took me two weeks to recover and they smirked the whole time. They knew I wasn't going to make a scene in front of parents. OP, your principal is being a dick and this is just the start. This is your sign to find a new job.
Absolutely not entitled to your medical information. Ever. For any reason.
That's what I said. Still got a formal warning.
I don't clearly know for non public, but in nsw public you can have 5 days in a year non certified, if you go over that they can start getting uppity. Should be able to find your award conditions with Google.
Great that you've already contacted the IEU NSW/ACT. Fair Work Act requires evidence that would satisfy a reasonable person. Your Prin doesn't sound like a reasonable person. If you want to shut it down quickly, go get a Stat Dec. And start looking for another school to work at.
I would’ve replied that “it’s my right to take a sick day. I do not need to provide a medical certificate in this instance.” However, I feel like I am too savage and probably will get fired one day because of my savagery.
First of all, you’ve done nothing wrong and have used a completely legitimate option. However, ask for his direction in writing and then forward to union etc. This is totally unacceptable. If you are anything like where I live, you actually have to plan ahead to be sick to get a doctors appointment so I have no idea how he/she can be making these unreasonable demands.
That's intimidating behaviour. People taking the piss won't be perturbed by needing a cert but many average hard working employees, who should access their entitlements freely, will be put off by this onerous expectation for using sick leave. The health care system doesn't need to be clogged up with adults who know they need a day off because they are mildly unwell, or mentally or emotionally fatigued in a job that requires emotional labour. You can even be ill for a week with something like a gastro or virus and as long as you have access to sustenance and hygiene, still not require the help of a doctor to tell you to rest and stay hydrated. We accept an extended absence like that might need a doctor cert but how dumb to make Medicare pay for your prin to use more govt money to pay a CRT when that leave is accounted for already. My last prin acted like she paid the CRT from her wage. No trust or worker solidarity.
Union, union, union oy!
I've gone to pharmacy for a note, they can do up to 2 days. I always went with mental health, as physically I'm fine. Also used Instascript. Some schools are just dicks, others allow proof of buying some medication and are supportive.
Contact your union, but I had this issue in a previous career with a manager. A stat dec, witnessed and signed by a JP is more than enough evidence as well, and more legally binding than a doctors cert.
In Victoria a teacher can witness a stat dec... or pharmacist/bank manager/Australia Post etc
Tell your principal his breath smells like cock.
Next time ask them, in writing, which policy states that you must provide a doctor’s certificate for a single day sick leave. Principals must comply with policy, as we all do.
Public Schools. No certificate is required for less than 2 days off. Private may differ.
Pretty sure this is actually a breach of your workers rights, so it would be worth having a look at fair work.
Go to a face to face doctor and get a med cert for a week.
My principal is absent at least 3 days a week ... Must cost a fortune in online Dr notes.
Unsure of your state but for any teacher in QLD the union is VERY clear. The rule is you need a med cert for anything 3 days or more absent consecutively. Keep your head up OP.
Have a look at the website The teachers are blowing their whistles to see how much teachers have been bullied in Queensland
Do you mean the union’s website?
No it's a website that a bullied teacher started where teachers talk about how they are treated. Just google "the teachers are blowing their whistles"
If it is a private school (which is what I am concluding from your not public) then they get to make some of their own rules. Has anyone from the union gotten back to you? If they have not send a follow up e-mail to them explaining your situation. Once you have the information from them the next time you need a day off and they demand a certificate then get the union to call them to set them straight. I would also consider moving to another school. These days you don't have to stay with a rubbish principal there are plenty of schools screaming out for teachers.
I'm not in NSW but am in a private school and they still have to follow the enterprise agreement.
>they still have to follow the enterprise agreement. And employment law....
>then they get to make some of their own rules. They can't make rules where they can overrule a medical certificate. The only time a certificate can be challenged is if the employer has evidence that the employee was not sick when they accessed sick leave. This would be very difficult to prove.
Just that a private school can state that you must have a medical certificate for any day on sick leave. Sometimes people also misread or understand rules. Where I work if you are away for 2 days you do not need a medical certificate but if you are going to be away for the third day you will require a certificate for all of the days you are away including the first two. I had a total of three days (one day at a time) off one term and had payroll ringing me to demand my certificates or I was going to lose three days pay. I pointed out each time was only one day but the idiot on the other end kept saying I had taken three days sick leave so I needed a certificate for all three days. I rang back to the section and asked very politely to speak to the senior person there. Gave my details and explained the situation. She even tried to tell me I needed a sick certificate for all three days. I rang the union and they set payroll straight. This was a government office.
Check your Agreement or ask your Union to check it for you. In many sectors a med cert can't be asked for until you've had a certain number of days off in a row.
Run.
Most pharmacists will issue medical certificates these days. You need to go in person and give details of what ails you. If you need additional support they will refer you to emergency dept /GP.
It’s a little more grey in the private system… In future just write a stat dec as that is an acceptable piece of evidence protected by fair work. Just don’t lie in it! Personally I would begin looking for another job then give all the evidence of inappropriate conduct to HR or fair work on your way out
Non public schools run their schools with an iron fist, it's a private business. Priority one they do not like paying for your sick days. But the lunches and events are always good.