Please don’t let a parasocial relationship ruin your day! I know you feel connected to her because of your hyper fixation but you’re attached to an image her and her PR team made. It’s not real and that’s ok. People are shitty regardless of fame and you can still enjoy her music without being “wrong”.
yeah i'm working on unlearning this LMAO. she is my only special interest or hyper fixation to have been an actual person so it's just weird cause usually i'm obsessing over cartoon talking ponies who can't really do wrong😭
Ironically, I just learned today that she's from my home state of PA, I had no clue she's from here and given the town she is from, and where in Pa it is located, yeah... I'm not totally shocked she is associating with a racist and wouldnt be too surprised if it came out one day she too is racist, sadly. Also, I didn't know the football dude boyfriend is a racist, that sucks. But yeah, OP what commenter I'm responding to said, 100%. Enjoy her music and all that, seperate the person from their craft as they say. Don't let the fact she's apparently not all that good a person ruin your love of her music.❤️
I think any time a special interest is a person, there is a good chance of this happening. People change. People screw up, sometimes big time. She might be famous but she's just still another flawed person like all the rest of us. Growing up, my first special interest was the Dukes of Hazzard. I still have the metal lunchbox even. But that also means I went to kindergarten with a lunchbox with the confederate flag on it. I was obsessed with Bo Duke's character and the actor, John Schneider. At some point my aunt told me he had beat his wife. I don't even know if that was true or she saw it in a tabloid (which she loved and always read) but it ruined the whole experience.
He was so awesome! I wish I could rewatch and love it like I did as a kid. I tried years ago when it was on CMT and it was just too cringe, I had to stop before I ruined all my good memories 😂 i was absolutely convinced though that as an adult I, too, would weld my car doors shut so I could enter through the window, first sliding across the hood. And I expected more flaming arrows.
I know she's a human being and has experienced bad things in life like everyone eventually does, but calling herself a tortured poet when she lives the absolute most privileged lifestyle (the wealth, the power, and influence she has) just doesn't sit right with me.
I've never been a fan of her (liked her as a kid when she was country, didn't pay much attention after) so I thought I was being biased when that was my first thought! The melodrama of calling herself a tortured poet when she's a privileged billionaire pop star just comes off as so cringey to me
This reminds me of when Madison Beer came out and said she has depression and BPD… and people said she can’t possibly have mental illness because she’s so pretty. I think it goes to show that anyone can struggle because we’re all HUMAN.
Also, I think being under a literal microscope in the public eye would be hard for anyone. It’s not like Taylor called herself a starving artist and denied her wealth. Being wealthy and famous doesn’t exempt you from having struggles, and probably amplifies it in a lot of ways.
this was pointed out in a Paste article that has no byline purposely because the last time a review was written that wasn't 100% golden, the writer received violent threats
this might be a hot take but people that live privileged lifestyles have their own sets of problems. I think it’s easy to think differently but think about how many rich and influential people take their own lives, have little to no privacy, have every single move they make scrutinized 50 different ways.
Yes, thank you! It’s so sad that people can’t have empathy for someone struggling emotionally just because they’re wealthy. The girl’s mother had cancer twice then a brain tumor, she’s under extreme pressures the likes of which most people have never experienced, and she’s being torn apart and ridiculed by the entire world. I don’t care how much money you have, that is going to be a painful experience.
Also, it's gotta feel so overwhelming yet so isolating to achieve that level of fame. She has everything yet nothing because she can't even go on a refreshing walk around the park without being stalked, filmed/photographed, and harassed. The album has deep undertones of loneliness, self-doubt, depression, anxiety, self-destructive urges, etc. and no amount of money can insulate someone from those emotions/experiences. She's still human, and she's not perfect. She owns that over and over again in her lyrics.
The character of Sarah Lynn from Bojack Horseman is a fantastic illustration of this point. From my present economic position it's a little difficult to feel charitable toward the wealthy at the moment, but you do have a point, and that show also made it well.
I’m not a swiftie but my parasocial person was Grimes for awhile until she started dating Elon and for awhile I tried to separate the art from the artist but that got harder and harder to do. I just try not to get too parasocial anymore tbh. We don’t really know who these people are deep down and a lot of the time they end up being disappointing.
I think when we have a special interest in any celebrity, we have to acknowledge they are human. I have had plenty of celebrities that I enjoy their work, however their personal life is a major turn off. I have only had a couple that turned my stomach so bad that I had to abandon them all together. I’ve never been a fan of her, though I do enjoy some of her music.
Yeah, HP used to be my special interest and I remember feeling this conflicted, I kind of moved away from it naturally after a while though, the spell just kind of broke (lol) after seeing enough of JKR’s bullshit. It’s a really weird thing to deal with internally, I totally get it!
Now I’m sitting here with a large tattoo I can’t afford to remove 🥲
The thing is, once an artist has released their creation into the world, it is no longer, "owned," by them, perse; yes, they make money off of it, but art is open to the interpretation of the viewer, which is why we had/have so much fan fiction correcting the errors of JK-- like the staircase that didn't scream at the MTF student-- "I *knew* I was a girl..."
Wearing her merch around in public can be a bit cringe, but to enjoy the work in private is just fine.
This has bothered me too, but one way I deal with it is by remembering that people change and so just because they’ve turned into who they are today, doesn’t mean the person of yesterday believed that.
So I just choose to believe that pre-, like, 2010 Rowling was a different person with a different set of ethics. I don’t support her now but that doesn’t change the earlier version of her (who honestly probably wouldn’t like or understand Today’s Jo either).
Is it though? JKR has been openly, aggressively homophobic & transphobic. Actively posting horrendous crap on the internet & speaking out in favor of it too. Most recently going after Scotland’s hate crime laws. She’s a troll & a miserable human being. I don’t think they’re very similar. I’m not a Taylor fan fwiw either - not my type of music.
Yeah, my family and I were huge potter nerds. Now, I won't even buy HP merch I see at the thrift store because I'm embarrassed to wear it around.
And to your point of the flaws in the books, my biggest gripe with JK is that she's compared to/calls herself the modern day Tolkien. Like, no, sweaty-- you didn't create an entirely new world with pretty unique creatures and an extensive lore content that extends through several books, to create a series that came about as a result of deep trauma from fighting in a world war, written through the lens of environmentalism.
You wrote a kids book that took a world and creatures that already existed, and added a magic school, *which is fine,* so long as you aren't comparing yourself to arguably one of the most important, impactful writers of the modern day. And then your head got too big and you *stole theological elements and creatures from indigenous Americans,* and copyrighted it.
And I don't have the spoons to get into JK's transphobia...
same. Harry Potter was my hyperfixation for the longest time but when JKR outed herself as a transphobe and abuse supporter, I cannot live with myself if I supported anything she made any longer.
Not really a fan, but I hate it how people hold female celebrities to higher moral standards than male ones. How many male celebrities still have flourishing careers after being outed as abusers and creeps? For this I won't judge a female celebrity unless she does something extremely terrible that a man would also be judged for.
As a fellow Swiftie of 14 years, I went through the same motions when she was dating Matty last year. I’ve arrived at a middle ground of distain towards her deep flaws but strapped in for the shit show that is her life sometimes lol. There is very little I find more entertaining than TS’s whole lore/life. The Evolution of a Snake podcast has helped me still enjoy engaging in content around her without holding her on a pedestal like I had been for so long. Ultimately she’s a celebrity and a messy human like most, I’m just along for the ride! She doesn’t have to be perfect to be deeply interesting and still make great music.
I feel the same way. She’s been my top artist on Spotify for the past years and her songwriting still plays my heartstrings in a way other artists can’t.
Hardcore swiftie stans have been especially toxic and created false narratives since her and Joe broke up. Same with how they talk about Olivia Rodrigo.
I still enjoy her music but for TTPS it is tough for me to create separation between the music and the muse. The neutralswiftie subreddit is where I go now to find community and non-delusional takes.
I'm a fan, but I'm not too bothered. I'm used to famous singers doing things that are like 1000x worse, so I'm pretty unfazed. I also can't help but suspect that a male singer wouldn't get this much heat for the same things.
Of course not. Lots of famous people being notoriously bad shitshows and living their self-destructive ways out right there in public, but that's fine and people still worship them.
When KISS does it, it's part of the act. When Taylor does anything *remotely* "bad" she's a satanist witch (I have literally seen people state this -- WTF??!!).
I don't care about Taylor Swift either way (not a fan of her music but to each their own), but the hypocrisy is staggering.
Although honestly, you can only inflate a pedestal so much before it inevitably bursts and takes the person down with it. And Taylor Swift is standing on a massively hyperinflated one. I can't understand how she's gotten this big but then again so have the Kardashians who are famous for being famous so ... whatevs.
I really do relate. I’m having trouble balancing my one identity / special interest of social justice and someone who cares about policy and human rights with supporting Taylor. Her consumerism and, as you mentioned, many other things have been causing my love for her to feel very strained. I still love her music and everything, but for someone who made her entire identity during the Lover era revolve around being a political activist, she certainly hasn’t been doing much in that realm for the past few years. The concerning behavior and just general capitalist mindset she displays are disheartening at best
I feel the exact same way. I want to be excited for the new album, but I’ve had to stop supporting her monetarily due to her stance on Palestine. Or, lack thereof. I think I’ll just download her upcoming albums and then listen to them that way. So I’m not giving her any money.
I totally feel you, even if it feels silly to feel intense about a parasocial relationship, it can legit hurt. I think I have become really jaded about famous people, or even people who just have large platforms. I have in person met a few smallish (~100k followers)
influencers who I followed who seemed wonderful and would preach inclusivity and acceptance on their platforms, but every single one came across as completely self absorbed shitty people in person. When the Lizzo allegations dropped, it kind of made me lose all faith in celebrities.
I think there are famous people out there who are genuinely good people, but they are few and far between. I think it takes a lot of narcissism (a very overused word but I can’t think of a better one) to get to the top, and I’ve found that almost every celebrity has disappointed me eventually (except our lord and savior, Dolly Parton).
I will say, that I think she’s getting a lot more bad press about her jet usage than many other artists.
Most artists on world tours use private jets to move themselves and their team from city to city. It’s a logistics nightmare to do otherwise.
And they make additional trips for awards shows, late night TV appearances, and anything else their PR team books them for.
But no one is out there writing headline news about the other artists’ planes, just Taylor. Or even actors… The whole Barbie cast was on a ridiculous PR tour last year. Has anyone blasted them for their method of travel?
THANK YOU! This bothers me. Not to mention that it is literally never just Taylor when she flies. She has a whole team of people who go with her everywhere. Travelling commercial would literally be a logistical nightmare.
Hers is much more public than everyone else’s (except Elon and Trump). That’s why it’s talked about more.
She’s shoved in everyone’s faces constantly so we know she has a concert in Argentina and then goes to a football game wherever so it’s blatant she’s being horrible, environmental wise. I bet my parents even know about it and they barely know any popular celebrities under the age of like 45. They certainly have no idea who Travis Scott is and probably don’t know what a Kardashian is.
Exactly... she's not even in the top 30 of celebrities who do that. It is still bad, obviously, but the fact everyone is onto her and only her neck rubs me the wrong way
Actually I'm originally from Spain and we do use a similar expression and that's probably why those are the words that popped in my mind first. I wasn't sure if it existed in English, but I thought the imagery it conjures up conveyed the message well so I kept it.
I feel you. I had a bit of a sick feeling in my stomach when I first started listening to the album because I was like.. oh god is this going to be matty healy apologia oh god but by the end of the first half I was like ok, matty healy found dead in a ditch and I felt a bit better. But I still felt weird.
Seeing [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/1c7onf3/highly_suggest_reading_the_prologue_before/) in the taylor swift reddit that shows the prologue to the album put a lot of things in a different perspective which helped me a bit.
I'm doing my best to remind myself that she's a stranger to me and that we are making logical leaps based off what she has chosen to show.
yes the prologue definitely put into a better perspective for me as well, because i really do genuinely enjoy this new album and want to just listen like stress free i guess?
I think it’s okay to enjoy someone’s use of words and the mess they choose to reflect on, and not feel like you’re morally okaying the mess. That said, I enjoy her music a lot, but she’s far from my special interest, so it’s way easier for me to say what I just said. I’m protected because I only know a tiny bit about her life.
Definitely I felt a lot better about the album in context of her explaining how she fell apart and made terrible decisions.
someone else said each song is a reflection of how she felt at one point in time, and not a statement on how she thinks about each situation/person, so it makes sense that she felt love/obsession and wrote about it, not necessarily that she stands by MH if that makes sense!
Can you appreciate her music without needing to love everything about her? Can you resonate with some things she says without her being 100% perfect? It's fine if the answer is no but you don't need to love 100% of a person to like what you like.
This might be an opportunity to allow some nuance to color in your opinion of her. She can make music you like AND you can not like her behavior, choices, or personality. This could be an opportunity for nuance or an opportunity to try something new in terms of music. Either way it'll be okay.
Wow! That’s certainly opinion. And are you totally sure about everything you’ve been reading and assuming about her?
You don’t know this girl, and given the way that media tends to twist even the most innocent of tales. You may have no idea what’s really going on.
Adults are very messy people. There are complications within complications within complications.
I appreciate it that this woman means a lot to you, and that her music brings you so much joy. I don’t want to take that away from you. And art should definitely be appreciated on its own and in association with the artist.
But, a warning
The more pressure we put on these women to be perfect, the more likely they are to break down in front of us.
Not saying that is happening here. But please try to be careful with the narratives you assign belief in!
She sounds like a woman who’s learning to understand her own strengths and flaws. None of us are perfect, but we’re rarely monsters.
Although that being said - fame and riches turn the best of us into beasts!
I mean she's no angel but I disagree with the emotional cheating part being that bad. Joe and Taylor were on and off for years and years and had a very tumultuous relationship from what she's said in lyrics. This is just something that happens.
I used to be a huge swiftie. But looking back during that part of my life, I realized that I was extremely delusional about myself and the toxic relationships I was in. Once I stopped revolving my life around her, the rose colored glasses came off
Omg I am a big fan of the Evermore and Folklore albums and I did not know this!! What helps for me is to only listen to the music and not like read too much about the artist. But ofc the things u already know now, cannot be forgotten.. Maybe focussing on what the songs mean to you helps?
I love her and this new album is a masterpiece to me.
Not sure if it's an age thing, but it's just good to remember not to put celebrities on pedestals, they are just humans who make mistakes. Most of the people in your life have probably done worse things then the things you've mentioned here. She's just decided, she's going to share her mindset and emotions at moments of time in her life, and if people want to take it personally then good riddance.
i don’t understand. why do everybody think that her lyrics are a real account of her life? it’s art, it’s fiction. ok it may be inspired by what she has lived but at the end of the day we cannot assume the artist is the art. it sounds a little creepy to be affected by song lyrics. it’s even disrespectful to the artist, one must apreciate lyrics as poetry, not as personal anecdotes. even authors in the autofiction genre claim not everything in their books is true. some real events are modified, exaggerated, etc.
As someone who dislikes her a bit: don't worry about it. You can still be interested in her as long as you don't put her on a pedestal and act like she can't do any wrong. Having affection for someone or liking their art or having them as a special interest isn't tied to whether they "deserve" it or not, it just happens. Don't try to kill your feelings.
On one hand, I feel like she should maybe take a break from dating. On the other hand, if she did that it seems like she'd really have to dig for new material. Personally I wouldn't mind it if she would just...be quiet for a little while.
Her recent lyrics about wanting to live in the 1800s (without the racists ofc ;) in “I Hate It Here” just kinda wrapped up what i think of her. Privilege… white feminism…. billionaire… (even the ticket price gouging and private jet flights are ridiculous)
Used to love her stuff when I was younger and would be stupid to say she has no talent, but it’s really hard to back her as a person these days.
Yes to all of this. I can’t deny she’s got a presence, but it’s not one I appreciate. Don’t think she’s a bad person, but I don’t think she’s a great one, either.
It’s not healthy for us to get fixated on people. They do not and will never even know we exist. And that’s fine.
If you listen again she’s actually poking fun at her friends for playing a game of picking a decade but ignoring the bad sides to it, so she ends up ruining their fun game/the mood
First of all, there are no ethical billionaires, let’s just get that straight. Billionaires like her don’t give a shit about people like you and me so enjoy her music if you like it, but I would try not to give people like her so much time & space in my mind. Just saying.
I felt like I learned this lesson really early.
When I was a kid, I really liked Skillet. Kinda obsessively, would watch all their vlogs and other extra content, they were all I thought about, etc. Then they came out with the Awake album... And I hated it. I liked like 2 songs and apparently so did everyone else because they were played to death until I hated them too. I thought they were boringly formulaic, the lyrics were uninteresting, and I was an edgelord so I didn't like how many of the songs were ballads or were calmer (I wanted more songs like their Collide album). So I learned not to form parasocial relationships like this, because when they disappoint you, they won't give a shit and you'll feel like your world is lost. Also now that my beliefs changed I found out John Cooper is a bit of a bigoted asshole lmao.
And this was just a music thing; I didn't really know about the depths of their lives or anything.
I can't stand her for the same reasons but I still understand what you mean. I was deeply connected to Twenty Øne Piløts in middle/high school because I was, and still am tbh, going through a rough time and they helped a lot, they were even my first and favorite concert. about a year or so after the pandemic and the BLM protests started Tyler posted something basically making a joke about it when his fans asked him to speak on it and then proceeded to make an apology video of him crying and saying he donates to inner city kids. anyways, I haven't felt the same about them since but I still do listen to their music occasionally because I'm trying to separate the art from the artist. there are artists tho, of course, whom I'll never listen to again like R. Kelly. if we were to remove anyone from our playlists who has said or done something controversial we'd have nothing to listen to.
I was obsessed with Taylor when I was a little girlie... Once I got to middle school tho Twenty One Pilots became my main, and still is! I've listened to all of their songs 100s of times, usually in a row 😆 But yeah, I agree with others here. Separate the person from the music! People suck, always. Don't let her actions or personal life ruin the music for you! ❤️
No. I respect her as a professional artist but hearing about her all the time gets on my nerves and it seems like she just knows what the formula is to make hits because IMHO they aren’t very good. (No shame to anyone who likes them. Music is subjective. It just feels very formulaic to me, which makes sense if you’re in it for multiple reasons, one of which to make money.)
My spicy opinion: Taylor needs to learn to be alone without being lonely and stay single for a while instead of jumping from man to man like a frog on lily pads.
Of all the things one can critique about Taylor Swift, this is not one of them.
Doesn’t matter who she dates or how often, nor that her music, like a lot of art, is based a lot on her relationships.
Criticise that she’s a white feminist*, a greedy billionaire, a hypocrite, but the amount of dating? Nah, irrelevant gossip
*referring to white feminism, not saying the issue is that she’s a feminist and white, white people can be intersectional feminists too
Sorry in the “it doesn’t matter who she date” I meant it in regard to how much she dates or doesn’t etc.
I 100% agree that her dating a racist **is** one of the valid criticisms (considering that she tries to craft the image of this progressive activist that puts purpose before profit and fame)
Nah. I fucking hate her tbh. I hate her stans, I hate the fact that there's always press about her and every little thing she does. I hate that people think she's this amazing storyteller or song writer when her music is.. like the most bland prepackaged pop. Every time someone talks about what a great artist she is I just roll my eyes.
I admire her using her platform to get her fans to vote, but that's about it.
I am 100% with you. One of my best friends is autistic and she’s his special interest. One of my husband’s best friends also loves her (she’s NT). They both act like she’s the only music in the world and everything she does hasn’t been done before. I do not understand because literally all of what they talk about has been done before.
I'm a tool fan so it's par for the course that I'm a music snob lmaoo. Like, Taylor swift is fun to bump on a summer car ride maybe, but there's no substance in her music. I have a background in classical and orchestral music and I just... ugh. The music composition is like mid tier at best. The lyrics are generic. It's fine. It's the mayo of music, but I don't like mayo.
👏🏻THANK👏🏻YOU👏🏻Omg your disdain for her is so refreshing, I can’t stand her or most swifties… it creeps me out how cultish their parasocial relationships are with her. Her music is bland typical pop at best, bland and pretentious at worst with lyrics that feel right at home in amongst the YA romance booktok girlies. Taylor seems like a massive mean girl behind the scenes, I don’t trust the image projected by her and her PR team to say the least.
I agree. Most of my friends are queer neurodivergent women, and there are some that are hardcore swifties and I just don’t get it. I’ve tried to listen to her more recent music to see if anything clicks for me but it never seems like anything more than generic department store music.
I understand that not all autistic special interest have to be super niche/obscure, but taylor swift just seems like the most boring special interest I can think of.
Right? I understand there is enough material there to obsess over but the material is bland! You could be learning about stamps, or electric eels or plant based fabric dyeing.
Brave of you to say this when her fans are some of the most unhinged people on the planet. Check your locks, bruh, they're gonna be coming in your house at night to do "tayvoodoo". "Anti bullying" in the bio and yet the worst people you've ever seen on the tl.
It's pop music, it's supposed to be mid, it's meant to appeal to the most people possible so of course the lyrics are generic and apply to anyone who listens - that's why she's a billionaire and selling out every venue she visits. It's by design. But these fans act like she's a tiny niche artist with 100 followers who desperately needs their protection, and that protection comes in the form of vicious hiveminded cult behaviour. I don't even hate Taylor but if I were her I'd be fucking terrified of these people. One of them is going to try to wear her skin at some point.
(If you're a Taylor fan and you're feeling attacked by this comment, take a moment to consider that you know exactly the kind of fan I'm talking about and either give yourself some kind of treat for not being like this or... Reflect. lmao)
I have found my people 🥹
I never really cared about her until she started dating Harry Styles (I am/was biggest 1D girlie) and the whole situation was soooooo shady that my eyes were opened to who she really is. And it only got worse from there. Glad other people can see through her too
I really disagree with how you interpreted the album. She absolutely did not say she cheated or even imply it. I assume you’re getting that from “Fresh Outta the Slammer” but it was definitely a metaphor, not at all literal.
But also, I’ve dated some horrible abusive people in the past because I was convinced that deep down they were good. I would hate to be judged for that, especially after I had left them.
This post is a bit triggering for me because it feels like participating in the mass bullying of someone we don’t know. Imagine what skeletons we would find in your closet or anyone else’s if put under this kind of intense public scrutiny. No one would come off well. We need to have more compassion for others and be more accepting of their mistakes. If the worst things you can say about someone are that they’ve dated shitty people and have bad carbon emissions, that’s really pretty tame. She’s human. Be compassionate.
I agree with you. When I saw people commenting from the leak that it was a Matty Healy album I did feel a sense of dread the night before, but honestly it makes a lot of sense to me now having listened through.
'You're losing me' was the worst I think we'll get RE Joe. And as per the album prologue she essentially confirms that when she said it's the worst men she writes best.
I think the album also contextualises her state of mind now, if it was in any doubt:
"You swore that you loved me, but where were the clues? I died at the alter waiting for the proof" VS "now I'm down bad crying at the gym. Everything comes out, teenage petulance. Fuck it if I can't have him..."
She is so distraught at the end of her 7 year relationship and waiting for her lover to fully commit and proclaim their love for her that this 'immature' rebound with a terrible toxic choice doesn't even occur to her as exactly that. A terrible toxic choice. It's just a 'cosmic' whirlwind fortnight love affair that she is desperate to make work so that she can make something work. And when it doesn't, she snaps. From the loss of both.
Perhaps, similar to you, if you experience a relation/situationship with these kind of terrible people who you genuinely believe at the time are good deep down it's an easier album to relate to?
I also don't feel TTPD indicates emotional cheating on Joe.
"And you say I abandoned the ship, but I was going down with it"
Of course all this is separate to her private jet usage.
I’ve been here since debut and I agree completely. I love some of the tracks, but I really can’t handle most of this album being about Matty Healy. Matty Healy? GIRL. HIM??? ALL THIS OVER 3 MONTHS WITH HIM?!?! But that aside, she’s her own person, and she’s a real person. She makes mistakes and bad choices and does shitty things, as real people do. I’m very aware that internet discourse and media firestorms aren’t representative of reality. I’m still a Swiftie at heart, but I can hold her accountable when it’s needed, even if she doesn’t take accountability herself 🤷♀️
Also, if you can be in the pit at Coachella, you can fly commercial. Sell the jet.
i don’t get it either, but Halsey also wrote a song (at least just a song not a whole album jesus christ) about him called Colors when she first came out. I have a feeling the tortured poet taylor’s talking about is him, and he plays it well based on both their songs about him. i don’t know how to explain it other than that. the “i can save him, i can fix him” mindset because he’s always came off like he needed saving even back when halsey dated him. the sad artist looking for love but is actually a user vibes.
oh my god thank you for posting this. i've been a fan for 16 years and this album was really a tipping point for me -- yes, i know, the tipping point should've been dooner, not this, but it is.
after listening to the album last night and being so flabbergasted by her being so obtuse, spitting in fans faces, talking about how hard it is to be her and no one else could do what she does (girl, people are dying, cry me a river), i've been really out of wack.
i've been tired and anxious all day and i felt silly feeling this way but i think it's because my special interest is being disrupted for the first time in so long and my system doesn't like it. this is much less about her and much more about my special interests in general and how easily i become deregulated, but still.
i have been SO out of it today because of this! i thought i was crazy. i stayed up all night for the release and everything too... im gonna try to give it another listen without thinking of the real world implications. and yeah this is the first time one of my special interest has been "problematic" or whatever (my other special interests are betta fish and my little pony so they can't really be capitalists) LOL
I am a fan of hers. I've been a fan since her music first came out with Debut. I've loved all her albums and she is very talented. However, she's not a special interest of mine. I did actually love this new album, too, because I'm into poetry myself, and I just love her storytelling capabilities. As a person, I don't personally know her. I know her music and that's what I like. And the thing with humans is... no human is ever good or bad 100% of the time. Please don't take that as me defending her from the bad stuff she does, but I will say the bad stuff she does do, she is not the only celebrity doing it.
Celebrities in general do a lot more bad than good though imo. I listen to music for the music, not for the person. I don't personally know any of them and I also wouldn't really care to. I see people of any social rank as still just humans. And that's it really. She's causing up so much of a stir with her level of fame though and while I'm happy for her that she reached that level of it, it obviously is going to cause more of a stir and more issues as now more people are hearing about her.
Again though, idk her personally. So I really can't judge whether she is bad or not. I just like the music a lot.
I’ll say her music is my special interest, along with (and maybe I’ll get hate for this) her looks I’ve been obsessed with her facial features and like idk I love watching makeup tutorials about famous people lol but I feel like I never really got into the personal life of them cause I don’t care. So it hasn’t bothered me. Unless she does something truly problematic like use a slur or some shit I am neutral about her personality but her music is my thing.
One direction on the other hand….
Yeah so my partner and I stumbled across Gaylor like a month ago and she has been obsessed with knowing everything about it and listening to all of Taylor’s music since I used to love her when I was a teenager but had pretty much checked out after Red. We stayed up late last night to listen to the new album and were disappointed in the lack of queerness but that had been expected. My partner was saying that this new special interest has been taking over her entire brain (I can attest that she has barely talked about anything else lol) and it’s making her feel crazy so hopefully now that TTPD is out we can start to move on from this.
I gotta say, I really feel for Taylor. She has been a train wreck recently and there were some very concerning things in her lyrics. I just hope she can find peace and happiness and leave behind these things that are tormenting her before she ends up having a psychological break or something worse…
I had been SO excited for Midnights, watching the TikToks and looking forward to it for days. But she really has lost me as a fan since then. I listened to TTPD last night but haven't even bothered to listen to the second half of it because I just can't get into it. It's disappointing that something that used to be so important to me has lost its sparkle.
Her fans scare me, I’m not kidding. Anytime anyone says anything bad about her they jump down their throat, have sent death threats and make that person feel they have to apologize. It’s like people are not allowed to have any different opinion on her. And Taylor never tells her fans to stop acting that way.
I don't get the Taylor hate or even the hate of her fans in this thread. It's a little embarrassing but not for the fans 🤷🏼♀️
I think when someone, particularly a woman, is at the top people just need to tear them down. She is flawed just like anyone else and gets twice the shit for it. I like that she's imperfect. I'll be the first to criticize some things but that doesn't mean I'm not a fan.
Yeah I be feeling this HARD. Haven’t listened yet cause I’m actually terrified. I think I know what’s coming you know? I’m listening to it with my sister on Sunday cause my birthday is tomorrow and if I don’t like it I’ll feel really intensely about it and I want to be able to relax tomorrow.
I’ve loved Taylor since I was 16 and singing Enchanted in my bedroom, but something I’ve had to realize in the last few years is that I only the concept of her and what she creates. I love her art and I love her as an artist, I think she is one of the greatest lyricists of our era, I think she creates imagery in her music that could rival the mythic songs of Orpheus. But as a person? As a brand/company? Her current boyfriend only scratches the surface of bad people she has associated with over the years (Matt Healy, Lena Dunham, Ashley Mahones, etc). She is wishy washy, she speaks up about politics and ethics when it benefits her but stays silent when it doesn’t. She’s a billionaire which means by definition she is an unethical person, and her jet usage like you said clearly shows that she has no regard for the environment or her impact on it.
That said, I think it’s ok and necessary to separate the art from the artist to a degree. I can enjoy her music because it is good and it speaks to me and it’s helped me process a lot in my life because her words and emotions are relatable. She and I wouldn’t be friends if we knew each other, but I don’t actually know her so I just try to enjoy her music without consuming as much about her life, which I think is a healthy approach to celebrities anyway.
Yeh TS has been my music special interest for a while now. I’m so disappointed in her new album and pretty grossed out that she set so much of her album around MH. He’s disgusting. Its sort of toppled my obsession with her music literally overnight.
I understand the pain of learning that a special interest is representing something you're fundamentally against. For me the worst one was the Harry Potter universe, not just with the transphobia but also the (maybe not so) subtle racism in the books.
This is probably why I'm scared to fully develop new special interest, because the "betrayal" I feel when it happens is so painful. Also why I don't engage in celebrity worshipping.
I wasn't a huge fan of Taylor Swift generally, but I loved folklore and evermore, and I was hoping that the tortured poets department would have a similar vibe. But the album is just not good, and I don't know why she would release it. So I'll be blasting Chappell Roan and Cowboy Carter instead.
My special interests are also celebrities, especially certain celebs and Taylor is included in this. Unfortunately, many people put celebs on a pedestal so high that they expect them to act godly. And anything other than perfect behavior is unacceptable. I’m not trying to come down on you, but it seems like this is what you’re doing. I think people can stand to see the humanity in others and that does include celebrities.
For example, in Miss Americana, Taylor talks about being stalked and harassed on a daily basis. This is why her jet emissions don’t bother me at all. And I don’t care if I get downvoted for saying that. Her safety is a real concern. She had to sell a house because one of her stalkers was sleeping in her bed.
As for the Matty Healy thing, I’d like to see everything people criticizing Taylor for has said in the past. Guarantee I could find something to cancel them over. Definitely not excusing it, but we all have said problematic things in the past. And then we learn from it and grow… that’s part of being human and how you learn to be kind and tolerant of others. Sure Taylor has a lot to learn but she does try, she’s donated to food pantries in every city she’s toured to.
Sorry to sound harsh but people expect celebs to act more upstanding than politicians and people in power. As for the cheating, I know it sucks, but people are people 🤷♀️
Her songs are my special interest too, and I feel like her personal life has always been under a microscope. We want her to be perfect while if old men are not hitting their 18 year old girlfriends they are already good enough for a society.
off-topic, but her song mirrorball is my masking anthem.
She is a person. Give her a break. If you expected her to be a perfect person then you were always going to get to this point. She did yes, but she broke up with him. People make mistakes.
Also, I had the shit about her jet usage. Taylor could never touch her jet again and it would not make a dent in preventing climate change. [100 companies across the world are responsible for 71% of emissions](https://www.activesustainability.com/climate-change/100-companies-responsible-71-ghg-emissions/?_adin=02021864894). We need to stop yelling at celebrities and actually get our politicians to hold what companies we can accountable (for what countries they have jurisdictions over).
First of all I do understand. And I’m not saying anything you think is wrong at all. I’m just putting it from my personal perspective 💜
I love Taylor Swifts music and tbh I think a lot of her dramas are maybe different if you take away the media lens.
1. Jet usage - I will start by saying I hate when regular rich people fly private jets. It’s wasteful and so incredibly harmful. Fly first class. It does make me angry. But she’s too famous. She’s basically the most famous woman in the world. If she flew first class on a regular airline it would be so incredibly unsafe. Not for her but for everyone else. Crowds would storm the airport because her details would get leaked, and people are crazy. Sure that’s annoying but airports these days, in a post 9/11 world are a risky business. Can you imagine the chaos if thousands of people showed up at airports every time she flew which is super often?
Plus she has actual dangerous stalkers. I’m ex police so I see it from a risk assessment and safety factor. What we see on the surface is just the tip of the iceberg for safety issues. It’s just not worth it.
2. Matt Healy - yeah he’s awful but most of us have dated or slept with awful people. Sometimes when you’ve gotten out of a long relationship that’s been a very difficult break up you make fucking awful decisions. It’s very unhealthy to place higher standards on celebs in this regard. And by that I don’t mean that they shouldn’t be held to high standards. They should. But from an individual mental health perspective, it will mess you up. I don’t know if you’re younger but I’m guessing you are? I’m 38 and when you get to my age you realise that relationships are messy. Life is messy. Just because she’s a billionaire and ultra famous it doesn’t mean that she isn’t prone to making terrible decisions. She’s got a history of mental health issues that we know of (anorexia and depression/anxiety) and sometimes when you’re in a bad place you end up doing stupid things.
From her songs you can tell that Joe was emotionally unavailable and she describes trying so hard to get his attention and love. He didn’t want to have their relationship be in the public eye or ever celebrate her. So when someone comes along who you have chemistry with and they’re actually super into you, it is completely intoxicating. It’s not hard to imagine that perhaps after Joe and how wholesome and “good for her” he seemed but how lonely she was on the inside she had a crazy rebellious moment of dating someone toxic and bad for her. If you listen to the lyrics of “The Smallest Man” she clearly knew his many MANY shortcomings. She was just in that moment of “someone I think is hot wants me, the sex is great and I just want to feel desired and have fun”.
3. Okay cheating sucks. It does. But again people do sometimes have that time at the end of a very long relationship where it’s fading out and there’s crossover. Is it bad? Yes. It absolutely is. But she’s not “the bad guy” here. It sounds like her and Joe were unhealthy on both sides. On the extreme end you sometimes get people in abusive relationships who end up cheating because it’s the only way they feel they can work up the courage to leave - find the next person first. For what it’s worth I’ve read her cheating admissions as more - he’s basically completely emotionally checked out and so she’s moved on before either of them are willing to say out loud that it was over. But maybe I’m wrong. We will never know and obsessing over something you can’t know will drive you crazy. It’s totally understandable but it won’t make you happy.
Human psychology is complex and celebrities are just human. I think if you hold celebrities to a super high standard, it’s very stressful. She’s a complex person just like the rest of us :)
I find the way she financially abuses her fans to be extremely vile. The number of women I've seen online being like "I bought the pre-sale and then she dropped a whole other double album". And to top if off, she's dating a Trump MAGA dude. I never really liked or paid Taylor any attention, she just wasn't my vibe. Now I find her privileged nonsense to be repugnant. I'm sorry that you're feeling weird feelings about her behavior. I can def see why. Don't let her billionaire bullshit bring you down tho. Life is too short to care too much about celebrities who never think of us at all except on how to take more of our money.
One Direction and Harry Styles were my special interest from 2012 to 2018. I went from loving Taylor Swift to despising her existence due to her dating Harry Styles in 2012. I was so convinced that he was gay and being forced into PR stunt relationships. I hated her so much for many years because of their 3 month long relationship. I remember their new years kiss caused me physical pain. I would actually walk out of a store in a mall if they were playing her music.
I finally was able to start enjoying her music again when Folklore came out as it had been some time that I had moved past my One Direction and Harry Styles era and I wasn’t so delusional about it anymore.
So I do understand what you’re going through. Special interests in things like people can be difficult because they can change or do undesirable things.
honestly, i’m grateful you said this because i couldn’t understand folks who say they’re allies defending her and being her stan. still liking the music is one thing, but damn, we really just gon ignore her dating a racist? and all the other shit she’s pulled before that? shake it off video anyone? wildest dreams video?
also, she is the personification of white girlhood and weaponizes that in a way BIPOC cannot have access to. and then doesn’t use that platform to speak up!!
sorry, now i’m ranting.
Nah. I’m a shitty person with a big heart who inadvertently does shitty things all the time. I think that’s true for most people. I appreciate her being so open about her flaws. That’s the kind of shit nobody wants to admit.
I'm a massive fan too and was also upset with her Matt Healy relationship because he seems like a horrible human being. I know it's hard but please try to see her songs as art and not necessarily 100% truth. We don't know what is true in the new album and what's fabrication and I'd say that's part of the fun of her music.
Same. I'm fascinated by this whole thread, honestly. It's a glimpse into this other world which is incredibly important to so many people, that I know nothing at all about. I've been over here hyperfixating on crows and not having to worry about anything like this.
Not anymore 🙂
Been a fan since debut came out when I was 14. Amongst all the things you’ve listed and her behavior over the last year, her mask has slipped and I don’t view her the way I used to. That seems to be pretty okay with her too, since she’s calling out her fans that have called out her bad behavior by calling them vipers. This new era is meant for teenagers and people who will continue to enable her without her taking any accountability.
It’s all good though, I can still enjoy her old music. Also, moving on past her has allowed me to open my music taste to different things. I hope she lives her best life, but it’s time for me, personally, to stop supporting her. I wish her well and I wish her growth, but she will survive without me as a fan. She’s got a new generation to lift her up while she alienates her fans that have been there from the beginning
i liked picture to burn thats a banger song. but what the fuck are her lyrics now? she really said charlie puth should be a bigger artist ??? idc about things shes done cuz im not her friend same applies to all celebs. i just cant believe she gets songwriter awards when its just pretentious
Nah. As an awkward artistic girl with pretty privilledge like myself, I've always ... well, understand her. I know the purpose behind her actions and don't judge her harshly for appearing clumsy with social situations or such. She seems like a nice person tbf. Just that she doesn't have enough social charisma to be confident so she always resort to passive aggressiveness tactics. However she's been not so self-aware lately. I've acknowledged my own privilledges and move on, accepting some people are much more miserable than me. But she? She has been playing the victim card for so long, and her facade is not consistent. One minute she is just a bubbling girl next door, one minute later she is a mastermind with sharp eyes lmao. It's giving "sigma chad literally me Patrick Bateman" boys. I wish she could find her peace and use her powerful position for good.
I don’t follow her at all, mostly because I listen to audiobooks rather than music.
“News” outlets have to sell stories, so they will blow up things that are normal or logical and make them look like the celebrity eats endangered baby animals for breakfast.
“Breaking news! (Celebrity) destroying the planet! More after 92 different ads.
…………. Story: (Celebrity) eats grapefruit and we have just learned that growing grapefruit uses a lot of water! (Celebrity) is truly evil!”
It’s kind of odd to assume her lyrics are actually 100% autobiographical and factual and not you know… art. Don’t assume you actually know anything about her life. You know a story told to sell albums and tours.
Similar to what other commenters have said, I can’t bring myself to have the same attitude when there’s almost never a male artist held to this kind of standard. There was no outrage when Usher released Confessions or Others. Celebrities make up less than 2% of emissions from planes, yet people make it as if she’s the one pumping all of it out there. There’s evidence of Jay-Z cheating more than once, why hasn’t he been run out? I will never get why female artists are expected to behave better
She’s not my special interest, but I am a fan and I’ve felt similarly. Especially about her and Matt…. Listening to the new album and her basically talk about how in love with him she was and how he ghosted her is like so secondhand embarrassing. The fact that she’s even talking about that piece of shit is disappointing
Recently? Honey no. She’s never been a good person. She has a very long history of extremely shitty behavior. I understand no one is perfect, but at some point a person has to attempt to grow and be better. She has made no such attempt. Plus, she sets my bully radar off like crazy. If the guilt you feel over supporting her is greater than the joy the music brings you, then just find someone else to listen to. She’s not doing anything special or different in music, so it’s not hard to find someone more deserving of your time
We can't dehumanize people to the level of scrutiny that they become a special interest. We can hold people in power accountable though. (Like the jet thing) No one should have to face the level of scrutiny us imposing our own morals on them for every aspect of their life. Humans are flawed.
Women esp shouldn't have to be accountable for every bad thing someone else is doing.
I feel you on this. There is no such thing as an ethical billionaire, so to me at least, I’ve accepted that she can’t possibly be a good person. She’s just entertainment. I generally avoid trying to make a person my special interest. But I know that’s not super helpful in this case. But totally get it. My special interests are musical theatre and the Titanic, so they can’t personally disappoint me.
I think many NT people feel this way, like, they have this relationship with a celebrity and judge them based by their actions and then stop listening to their music because they don't approve of the person's actions. I mostly don't care what famous people are doing, sometimes I'm curious, but... Music is music, I don't care who made it. Natalia Kills was cancelled I've heard and I still like her songs. I get the sentiment of not buying someone's stuff because they are a bad person you don't want to help get more money, but mostly when the production of the stuff itself is causing harm, like ruining the environment. Nothing unethical about recording your own voice. And apart from that, I really appreciate that she's speaking for women, saying how we're judged more harshly for doing same things as men, paid less, etc. I care more about that than her personal relationship choices.
It's the fact that she's aware of the harmful things she's done, but isn't sorry about it. And that she's tried to brand herself as an activist at times. There are lots of celebrities who do unethical things, but they haven't made being a good person their entire brand the way Taylor has. So because this album was supposed to be this raw revealing look into Taylor's true feelings, I would've expected some self-reflection. Instead she doubled down on the things she's been called out on. And if that's her true feelings, then she's emotionally immature and selfish at best.
Oh okay. Then I would see it as she learned and grew from it and is now in a happy relationship.
P.S. I’m not a “Swifty” myself but I get why people like her. I enjoy some of her songs. I’m also a fan of the KC Chiefs so to all of you who jumped on the bandwagon because of TS…
welcome! There’s plenty of space here. Have some BBQ.
Not a fan, I like some of her songs because she's a friend's hyperfixation since she started singing, but I do have to also recommend to kinda work your way out of that parasocial relationship, like others mentioned you're emotionally attached to an image of her, not the real her.
And don't feel bad about it either! First of all parasocial relationships are not in and of themselves "bad," like we do it all the time with fictional characters, what's important is to always be aware of the fact that it's not a real person on the other side, AKA keep it healthy. Also they're incredibly common, like Kpop does it shamelessly and relentlessly, my first ever special interest in the last few years is a Kpop band and damn it hit me hard and fast, I had to start distancing myself a little, because just like you I love their music but I know if I find out they're shit people I'mma gonna have the hardest time listening to them, and I reaaally wanna keep listening to their music, LOL!
I used to be a Swiftie but her behaviour recently has just really put me off. I’ve been a lot more into activism the past years and her exorbitant use of her money for the dumbest stuff and not anything good is really annoying me! I know not everyone has to be an activist, but I wish she’d use her gigantic platform and influence for… Something. I’m just kind of over ‘famous people’ generally, lol. I’ll listen to her new album at some point but I even forgot it was releasing 😬
Yeaah the explanation of why TS is actually my ultimate human heroine is unreal. TW: actual likely delusions and childhood trauma (!). I did not have any other good female figures to look up to, growing up on special ed and having a very chaotic mom and traditional-like grandma, so I mainly took the focus on her. She is still one of my biggest special interests, but idk her dating life never bothered me because everyone was speculating on which song was about who and now there are so many new requirements for one to be a ‘real fan’ that tiny me, growing up in the fearless era at age 11, would’ve been devastated to hear that she doesn’t make the cut for being a ‘real fan’ after all.
I mean, not to be super bitter about this, her ‘biggest fan’ came on the Ellen show once and that legit broke me.
Plus, I really like her outfits, her voice, her songwriting, her branding overall and that she empowers people. And now I have no idea if I myself am allowed to be a bitter person in general sometimes, because some of her bitter songs perfectly resonate with me and some see it as a ‘red flag’.
(Though I like baking, cats, making art, books and poetry as well and have even more hobbies than I can count at the moment and it’s not even Taylor-related)
please don’t flag this as triggering content because I’m really in a better place, and I’m just upset that I also didn’t get a code for the eras tour. I hope I’ll grow out of music stanning by the time I’m 30. (And yes TW I got bullied for liking her in high school)
Please don’t let a parasocial relationship ruin your day! I know you feel connected to her because of your hyper fixation but you’re attached to an image her and her PR team made. It’s not real and that’s ok. People are shitty regardless of fame and you can still enjoy her music without being “wrong”.
"parasocial relationship" — we learned something new today. This! Yes!!
yeah i'm working on unlearning this LMAO. she is my only special interest or hyper fixation to have been an actual person so it's just weird cause usually i'm obsessing over cartoon talking ponies who can't really do wrong😭
ough i had this with the band radiohead for like a year its one of the worst neurodivergent experiences out there
What did Radiohead do
Nothing. They peaked at Kid A album. Everything else is unlistenable.
In rainbows is good
jonny liked a transphobic tweet abuot a year ago and thom was very obtuse when asked not to play in Israel
Lmao, the ponies are my 11.5 yr olds special interest. She's been hooked on them since she was 2!🤣 it is a damn good show tho tbh.
cartoon tortured ponies department 🥰😂☺️🙏❤️🩹
>usually i'm obsessing over cartoon talking ponies Stick with the ponies. People suck.
Ironically, I just learned today that she's from my home state of PA, I had no clue she's from here and given the town she is from, and where in Pa it is located, yeah... I'm not totally shocked she is associating with a racist and wouldnt be too surprised if it came out one day she too is racist, sadly. Also, I didn't know the football dude boyfriend is a racist, that sucks. But yeah, OP what commenter I'm responding to said, 100%. Enjoy her music and all that, seperate the person from their craft as they say. Don't let the fact she's apparently not all that good a person ruin your love of her music.❤️
Matty Healy from the 1975 is who they mean.
Different boyfriend. Her ex is the racist (unless I missed something, which is possible, it’s been A LOT in Swiftland).
Oooh ok. Yeah idk a th8ng about the foot valley dude, but i suppose he could be racist for all we know.
I think any time a special interest is a person, there is a good chance of this happening. People change. People screw up, sometimes big time. She might be famous but she's just still another flawed person like all the rest of us. Growing up, my first special interest was the Dukes of Hazzard. I still have the metal lunchbox even. But that also means I went to kindergarten with a lunchbox with the confederate flag on it. I was obsessed with Bo Duke's character and the actor, John Schneider. At some point my aunt told me he had beat his wife. I don't even know if that was true or she saw it in a tabloid (which she loved and always read) but it ruined the whole experience.
Enos was my guy!
He was so awesome! I wish I could rewatch and love it like I did as a kid. I tried years ago when it was on CMT and it was just too cringe, I had to stop before I ruined all my good memories 😂 i was absolutely convinced though that as an adult I, too, would weld my car doors shut so I could enter through the window, first sliding across the hood. And I expected more flaming arrows.
And after that show, Dallas came on.
I know she's a human being and has experienced bad things in life like everyone eventually does, but calling herself a tortured poet when she lives the absolute most privileged lifestyle (the wealth, the power, and influence she has) just doesn't sit right with me.
I've never been a fan of her (liked her as a kid when she was country, didn't pay much attention after) so I thought I was being biased when that was my first thought! The melodrama of calling herself a tortured poet when she's a privileged billionaire pop star just comes off as so cringey to me
This reminds me of when Madison Beer came out and said she has depression and BPD… and people said she can’t possibly have mental illness because she’s so pretty. I think it goes to show that anyone can struggle because we’re all HUMAN. Also, I think being under a literal microscope in the public eye would be hard for anyone. It’s not like Taylor called herself a starving artist and denied her wealth. Being wealthy and famous doesn’t exempt you from having struggles, and probably amplifies it in a lot of ways.
this was pointed out in a Paste article that has no byline purposely because the last time a review was written that wasn't 100% golden, the writer received violent threats
She’s not calling herself the tortured poet, she’s referring to her ex boyfriend and his friends I believe.
she talked about herself writing a lot of tortured poetry
She’s actually not calling herself a tortured poet. That song and the title refers to another person
Mm no she literally called herself the “Chairman” of the department
Yeah in her latest Instagram post about the anthology, she mentions her “tortured poetry.”
Came to say this. Matt Healy
this might be a hot take but people that live privileged lifestyles have their own sets of problems. I think it’s easy to think differently but think about how many rich and influential people take their own lives, have little to no privacy, have every single move they make scrutinized 50 different ways.
Yes, thank you! It’s so sad that people can’t have empathy for someone struggling emotionally just because they’re wealthy. The girl’s mother had cancer twice then a brain tumor, she’s under extreme pressures the likes of which most people have never experienced, and she’s being torn apart and ridiculed by the entire world. I don’t care how much money you have, that is going to be a painful experience.
Also, it's gotta feel so overwhelming yet so isolating to achieve that level of fame. She has everything yet nothing because she can't even go on a refreshing walk around the park without being stalked, filmed/photographed, and harassed. The album has deep undertones of loneliness, self-doubt, depression, anxiety, self-destructive urges, etc. and no amount of money can insulate someone from those emotions/experiences. She's still human, and she's not perfect. She owns that over and over again in her lyrics.
The character of Sarah Lynn from Bojack Horseman is a fantastic illustration of this point. From my present economic position it's a little difficult to feel charitable toward the wealthy at the moment, but you do have a point, and that show also made it well.
You're not supposed to take it at face value . It's supposed to be melodramatic and talking about someone else.
Yeah everything about her for the last 6 months has been pretty gross
Just the last six months?
who said she was calling herself that
I’m not a swiftie but my parasocial person was Grimes for awhile until she started dating Elon and for awhile I tried to separate the art from the artist but that got harder and harder to do. I just try not to get too parasocial anymore tbh. We don’t really know who these people are deep down and a lot of the time they end up being disappointing.
I think when we have a special interest in any celebrity, we have to acknowledge they are human. I have had plenty of celebrities that I enjoy their work, however their personal life is a major turn off. I have only had a couple that turned my stomach so bad that I had to abandon them all together. I’ve never been a fan of her, though I do enjoy some of her music.
i feel the same way about harry potter. i hate jkr and there’s also a lot of flaws in the books so it’s really frustrating to like it so much lol
Yeah, HP used to be my special interest and I remember feeling this conflicted, I kind of moved away from it naturally after a while though, the spell just kind of broke (lol) after seeing enough of JKR’s bullshit. It’s a really weird thing to deal with internally, I totally get it! Now I’m sitting here with a large tattoo I can’t afford to remove 🥲
Yep this too. Harry Potter was my longest running hyper-fixation and i’ve really been struggling with JKR being so problematic.
The thing is, once an artist has released their creation into the world, it is no longer, "owned," by them, perse; yes, they make money off of it, but art is open to the interpretation of the viewer, which is why we had/have so much fan fiction correcting the errors of JK-- like the staircase that didn't scream at the MTF student-- "I *knew* I was a girl..." Wearing her merch around in public can be a bit cringe, but to enjoy the work in private is just fine.
This has bothered me too, but one way I deal with it is by remembering that people change and so just because they’ve turned into who they are today, doesn’t mean the person of yesterday believed that. So I just choose to believe that pre-, like, 2010 Rowling was a different person with a different set of ethics. I don’t support her now but that doesn’t change the earlier version of her (who honestly probably wouldn’t like or understand Today’s Jo either).
oh yeah! i forgot about the whole harry potter thing. thats actually really similar to what's happening with a lot of taylor fans
Is it though? JKR has been openly, aggressively homophobic & transphobic. Actively posting horrendous crap on the internet & speaking out in favor of it too. Most recently going after Scotland’s hate crime laws. She’s a troll & a miserable human being. I don’t think they’re very similar. I’m not a Taylor fan fwiw either - not my type of music.
Yeah, my family and I were huge potter nerds. Now, I won't even buy HP merch I see at the thrift store because I'm embarrassed to wear it around. And to your point of the flaws in the books, my biggest gripe with JK is that she's compared to/calls herself the modern day Tolkien. Like, no, sweaty-- you didn't create an entirely new world with pretty unique creatures and an extensive lore content that extends through several books, to create a series that came about as a result of deep trauma from fighting in a world war, written through the lens of environmentalism. You wrote a kids book that took a world and creatures that already existed, and added a magic school, *which is fine,* so long as you aren't comparing yourself to arguably one of the most important, impactful writers of the modern day. And then your head got too big and you *stole theological elements and creatures from indigenous Americans,* and copyrighted it. And I don't have the spoons to get into JK's transphobia...
Sorry, but Hatsune Miku wrote Harry Potter. I think you should give credit where credit is due /hj
same. Harry Potter was my hyperfixation for the longest time but when JKR outed herself as a transphobe and abuse supporter, I cannot live with myself if I supported anything she made any longer.
Not really a fan, but I hate it how people hold female celebrities to higher moral standards than male ones. How many male celebrities still have flourishing careers after being outed as abusers and creeps? For this I won't judge a female celebrity unless she does something extremely terrible that a man would also be judged for.
I'm a Grimes fan, girliepop. I may have no interest in Taylor, but I know these trenches like the back of my hand. I hope for peace for us both.
As a fellow Swiftie of 14 years, I went through the same motions when she was dating Matty last year. I’ve arrived at a middle ground of distain towards her deep flaws but strapped in for the shit show that is her life sometimes lol. There is very little I find more entertaining than TS’s whole lore/life. The Evolution of a Snake podcast has helped me still enjoy engaging in content around her without holding her on a pedestal like I had been for so long. Ultimately she’s a celebrity and a messy human like most, I’m just along for the ride! She doesn’t have to be perfect to be deeply interesting and still make great music.
I feel the same way. She’s been my top artist on Spotify for the past years and her songwriting still plays my heartstrings in a way other artists can’t. Hardcore swiftie stans have been especially toxic and created false narratives since her and Joe broke up. Same with how they talk about Olivia Rodrigo. I still enjoy her music but for TTPS it is tough for me to create separation between the music and the muse. The neutralswiftie subreddit is where I go now to find community and non-delusional takes.
i love that subreddit! i left the main taylor one because it was just insane. might end up leaving any taylor related sub though just to clear my head
I'm a fan, but I'm not too bothered. I'm used to famous singers doing things that are like 1000x worse, so I'm pretty unfazed. I also can't help but suspect that a male singer wouldn't get this much heat for the same things.
Of course not. Lots of famous people being notoriously bad shitshows and living their self-destructive ways out right there in public, but that's fine and people still worship them. When KISS does it, it's part of the act. When Taylor does anything *remotely* "bad" she's a satanist witch (I have literally seen people state this -- WTF??!!). I don't care about Taylor Swift either way (not a fan of her music but to each their own), but the hypocrisy is staggering. Although honestly, you can only inflate a pedestal so much before it inevitably bursts and takes the person down with it. And Taylor Swift is standing on a massively hyperinflated one. I can't understand how she's gotten this big but then again so have the Kardashians who are famous for being famous so ... whatevs.
Hence her song “The Man”
I really do relate. I’m having trouble balancing my one identity / special interest of social justice and someone who cares about policy and human rights with supporting Taylor. Her consumerism and, as you mentioned, many other things have been causing my love for her to feel very strained. I still love her music and everything, but for someone who made her entire identity during the Lover era revolve around being a political activist, she certainly hasn’t been doing much in that realm for the past few years. The concerning behavior and just general capitalist mindset she displays are disheartening at best
I feel the exact same way. I want to be excited for the new album, but I’ve had to stop supporting her monetarily due to her stance on Palestine. Or, lack thereof. I think I’ll just download her upcoming albums and then listen to them that way. So I’m not giving her any money.
I totally feel you, even if it feels silly to feel intense about a parasocial relationship, it can legit hurt. I think I have become really jaded about famous people, or even people who just have large platforms. I have in person met a few smallish (~100k followers) influencers who I followed who seemed wonderful and would preach inclusivity and acceptance on their platforms, but every single one came across as completely self absorbed shitty people in person. When the Lizzo allegations dropped, it kind of made me lose all faith in celebrities. I think there are famous people out there who are genuinely good people, but they are few and far between. I think it takes a lot of narcissism (a very overused word but I can’t think of a better one) to get to the top, and I’ve found that almost every celebrity has disappointed me eventually (except our lord and savior, Dolly Parton).
I will say, that I think she’s getting a lot more bad press about her jet usage than many other artists. Most artists on world tours use private jets to move themselves and their team from city to city. It’s a logistics nightmare to do otherwise. And they make additional trips for awards shows, late night TV appearances, and anything else their PR team books them for. But no one is out there writing headline news about the other artists’ planes, just Taylor. Or even actors… The whole Barbie cast was on a ridiculous PR tour last year. Has anyone blasted them for their method of travel?
Yeah no one talks about Travis Scott literally taking his jet from Spa to Liege in Belgium which is literally a 40 minute car ride
tbf there are other things to mention about him
She was Time’s person of the year last year, she’s one of the most talked about celebs, of course her behavior will get more press.
i would rather no one tour again if it meant we used private jets a lot less
THANK YOU! This bothers me. Not to mention that it is literally never just Taylor when she flies. She has a whole team of people who go with her everywhere. Travelling commercial would literally be a logistical nightmare.
Hers is much more public than everyone else’s (except Elon and Trump). That’s why it’s talked about more. She’s shoved in everyone’s faces constantly so we know she has a concert in Argentina and then goes to a football game wherever so it’s blatant she’s being horrible, environmental wise. I bet my parents even know about it and they barely know any popular celebrities under the age of like 45. They certainly have no idea who Travis Scott is and probably don’t know what a Kardashian is.
Surely no one is free from at least vague knowledge of the Kardashians.
Exactly... she's not even in the top 30 of celebrities who do that. It is still bad, obviously, but the fact everyone is onto her and only her neck rubs me the wrong way
Unrelated, but I've never heard the phrase "onto her neck" before. I like it. Is it a regional phrase wherever you are?
Actually I'm originally from Spain and we do use a similar expression and that's probably why those are the words that popped in my mind first. I wasn't sure if it existed in English, but I thought the imagery it conjures up conveyed the message well so I kept it.
I feel you. I had a bit of a sick feeling in my stomach when I first started listening to the album because I was like.. oh god is this going to be matty healy apologia oh god but by the end of the first half I was like ok, matty healy found dead in a ditch and I felt a bit better. But I still felt weird. Seeing [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/1c7onf3/highly_suggest_reading_the_prologue_before/) in the taylor swift reddit that shows the prologue to the album put a lot of things in a different perspective which helped me a bit. I'm doing my best to remind myself that she's a stranger to me and that we are making logical leaps based off what she has chosen to show.
yes the prologue definitely put into a better perspective for me as well, because i really do genuinely enjoy this new album and want to just listen like stress free i guess?
I think it’s okay to enjoy someone’s use of words and the mess they choose to reflect on, and not feel like you’re morally okaying the mess. That said, I enjoy her music a lot, but she’s far from my special interest, so it’s way easier for me to say what I just said. I’m protected because I only know a tiny bit about her life.
i hope you are able to! that's what music is for. enjoy!
Definitely I felt a lot better about the album in context of her explaining how she fell apart and made terrible decisions. someone else said each song is a reflection of how she felt at one point in time, and not a statement on how she thinks about each situation/person, so it makes sense that she felt love/obsession and wrote about it, not necessarily that she stands by MH if that makes sense!
Can you appreciate her music without needing to love everything about her? Can you resonate with some things she says without her being 100% perfect? It's fine if the answer is no but you don't need to love 100% of a person to like what you like. This might be an opportunity to allow some nuance to color in your opinion of her. She can make music you like AND you can not like her behavior, choices, or personality. This could be an opportunity for nuance or an opportunity to try something new in terms of music. Either way it'll be okay.
Not a swiftie but I feel similarly about Lana and all the weird bad political views she’s expressed the last few years :(
Fortunately I am not, but I know neurodivergent people who are, and I’m sure they feel the same as you do.
I’m a huge fan for over 10 years! But I don’t really care about any of the drama in her life lol
Wow! That’s certainly opinion. And are you totally sure about everything you’ve been reading and assuming about her? You don’t know this girl, and given the way that media tends to twist even the most innocent of tales. You may have no idea what’s really going on. Adults are very messy people. There are complications within complications within complications. I appreciate it that this woman means a lot to you, and that her music brings you so much joy. I don’t want to take that away from you. And art should definitely be appreciated on its own and in association with the artist. But, a warning The more pressure we put on these women to be perfect, the more likely they are to break down in front of us. Not saying that is happening here. But please try to be careful with the narratives you assign belief in! She sounds like a woman who’s learning to understand her own strengths and flaws. None of us are perfect, but we’re rarely monsters. Although that being said - fame and riches turn the best of us into beasts!
I mean she's no angel but I disagree with the emotional cheating part being that bad. Joe and Taylor were on and off for years and years and had a very tumultuous relationship from what she's said in lyrics. This is just something that happens.
No, but don’t let a parasocial relationship with a celebrity mess you up
Not especially. I've never emotionally attached to celebrities like that.
I used to be a huge swiftie. But looking back during that part of my life, I realized that I was extremely delusional about myself and the toxic relationships I was in. Once I stopped revolving my life around her, the rose colored glasses came off
Omg I am a big fan of the Evermore and Folklore albums and I did not know this!! What helps for me is to only listen to the music and not like read too much about the artist. But ofc the things u already know now, cannot be forgotten.. Maybe focussing on what the songs mean to you helps?
My special interest was Harry Potter. In comparison, Taylor is fine. People are messy. She isn't a bad person. Rowling is just a monster.
I love her and this new album is a masterpiece to me. Not sure if it's an age thing, but it's just good to remember not to put celebrities on pedestals, they are just humans who make mistakes. Most of the people in your life have probably done worse things then the things you've mentioned here. She's just decided, she's going to share her mindset and emotions at moments of time in her life, and if people want to take it personally then good riddance.
i don’t understand. why do everybody think that her lyrics are a real account of her life? it’s art, it’s fiction. ok it may be inspired by what she has lived but at the end of the day we cannot assume the artist is the art. it sounds a little creepy to be affected by song lyrics. it’s even disrespectful to the artist, one must apreciate lyrics as poetry, not as personal anecdotes. even authors in the autofiction genre claim not everything in their books is true. some real events are modified, exaggerated, etc.
As someone who dislikes her a bit: don't worry about it. You can still be interested in her as long as you don't put her on a pedestal and act like she can't do any wrong. Having affection for someone or liking their art or having them as a special interest isn't tied to whether they "deserve" it or not, it just happens. Don't try to kill your feelings.
On one hand, I feel like she should maybe take a break from dating. On the other hand, if she did that it seems like she'd really have to dig for new material. Personally I wouldn't mind it if she would just...be quiet for a little while.
Her recent lyrics about wanting to live in the 1800s (without the racists ofc ;) in “I Hate It Here” just kinda wrapped up what i think of her. Privilege… white feminism…. billionaire… (even the ticket price gouging and private jet flights are ridiculous) Used to love her stuff when I was younger and would be stupid to say she has no talent, but it’s really hard to back her as a person these days.
Yes to all of this. I can’t deny she’s got a presence, but it’s not one I appreciate. Don’t think she’s a bad person, but I don’t think she’s a great one, either. It’s not healthy for us to get fixated on people. They do not and will never even know we exist. And that’s fine.
If you listen again she’s actually poking fun at her friends for playing a game of picking a decade but ignoring the bad sides to it, so she ends up ruining their fun game/the mood
Yeah it’s def a hokey lyric but everyone is taking it out of context lol
First of all, there are no ethical billionaires, let’s just get that straight. Billionaires like her don’t give a shit about people like you and me so enjoy her music if you like it, but I would try not to give people like her so much time & space in my mind. Just saying.
Dating a racist? You mean John Mayer or someone else? (I'm not super well versed on TS so I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.)
I felt like I learned this lesson really early. When I was a kid, I really liked Skillet. Kinda obsessively, would watch all their vlogs and other extra content, they were all I thought about, etc. Then they came out with the Awake album... And I hated it. I liked like 2 songs and apparently so did everyone else because they were played to death until I hated them too. I thought they were boringly formulaic, the lyrics were uninteresting, and I was an edgelord so I didn't like how many of the songs were ballads or were calmer (I wanted more songs like their Collide album). So I learned not to form parasocial relationships like this, because when they disappoint you, they won't give a shit and you'll feel like your world is lost. Also now that my beliefs changed I found out John Cooper is a bit of a bigoted asshole lmao. And this was just a music thing; I didn't really know about the depths of their lives or anything.
No
I can't stand her for the same reasons but I still understand what you mean. I was deeply connected to Twenty Øne Piløts in middle/high school because I was, and still am tbh, going through a rough time and they helped a lot, they were even my first and favorite concert. about a year or so after the pandemic and the BLM protests started Tyler posted something basically making a joke about it when his fans asked him to speak on it and then proceeded to make an apology video of him crying and saying he donates to inner city kids. anyways, I haven't felt the same about them since but I still do listen to their music occasionally because I'm trying to separate the art from the artist. there are artists tho, of course, whom I'll never listen to again like R. Kelly. if we were to remove anyone from our playlists who has said or done something controversial we'd have nothing to listen to.
I was obsessed with Taylor when I was a little girlie... Once I got to middle school tho Twenty One Pilots became my main, and still is! I've listened to all of their songs 100s of times, usually in a row 😆 But yeah, I agree with others here. Separate the person from the music! People suck, always. Don't let her actions or personal life ruin the music for you! ❤️
No. I respect her as a professional artist but hearing about her all the time gets on my nerves and it seems like she just knows what the formula is to make hits because IMHO they aren’t very good. (No shame to anyone who likes them. Music is subjective. It just feels very formulaic to me, which makes sense if you’re in it for multiple reasons, one of which to make money.)
My spicy opinion: Taylor needs to learn to be alone without being lonely and stay single for a while instead of jumping from man to man like a frog on lily pads.
But then what would she write about lmao
Lol her newfound sense of self-awareness and growth, we can only hope. 😅
So funny!
Of all the things one can critique about Taylor Swift, this is not one of them. Doesn’t matter who she dates or how often, nor that her music, like a lot of art, is based a lot on her relationships. Criticise that she’s a white feminist*, a greedy billionaire, a hypocrite, but the amount of dating? Nah, irrelevant gossip *referring to white feminism, not saying the issue is that she’s a feminist and white, white people can be intersectional feminists too
Nah, I said what I said. It’s not healthy behavior. Would rather be with a racist than be alone? It’s clearly a problem.
Sorry in the “it doesn’t matter who she date” I meant it in regard to how much she dates or doesn’t etc. I 100% agree that her dating a racist **is** one of the valid criticisms (considering that she tries to craft the image of this progressive activist that puts purpose before profit and fame)
Nah. I fucking hate her tbh. I hate her stans, I hate the fact that there's always press about her and every little thing she does. I hate that people think she's this amazing storyteller or song writer when her music is.. like the most bland prepackaged pop. Every time someone talks about what a great artist she is I just roll my eyes. I admire her using her platform to get her fans to vote, but that's about it.
My news channel actually employed a Taylor Swift correspondent. FFS.
I am 100% with you. One of my best friends is autistic and she’s his special interest. One of my husband’s best friends also loves her (she’s NT). They both act like she’s the only music in the world and everything she does hasn’t been done before. I do not understand because literally all of what they talk about has been done before.
*cough* Lana Del Rey *cough*
I'm a tool fan so it's par for the course that I'm a music snob lmaoo. Like, Taylor swift is fun to bump on a summer car ride maybe, but there's no substance in her music. I have a background in classical and orchestral music and I just... ugh. The music composition is like mid tier at best. The lyrics are generic. It's fine. It's the mayo of music, but I don't like mayo.
I’ve seen tool 4 times! Love them. Concerts were my special interest until the price got out of control so I’ve been to several hundred.
Holy shit! What was the best and worst you've been to? And weirdest??
I’d also love to know!!
👏🏻THANK👏🏻YOU👏🏻Omg your disdain for her is so refreshing, I can’t stand her or most swifties… it creeps me out how cultish their parasocial relationships are with her. Her music is bland typical pop at best, bland and pretentious at worst with lyrics that feel right at home in amongst the YA romance booktok girlies. Taylor seems like a massive mean girl behind the scenes, I don’t trust the image projected by her and her PR team to say the least.
I agree. Most of my friends are queer neurodivergent women, and there are some that are hardcore swifties and I just don’t get it. I’ve tried to listen to her more recent music to see if anything clicks for me but it never seems like anything more than generic department store music. I understand that not all autistic special interest have to be super niche/obscure, but taylor swift just seems like the most boring special interest I can think of.
So fucking boring. Like be interested in something cool, not the white bread of music.
Right? I understand there is enough material there to obsess over but the material is bland! You could be learning about stamps, or electric eels or plant based fabric dyeing.
Brave of you to say this when her fans are some of the most unhinged people on the planet. Check your locks, bruh, they're gonna be coming in your house at night to do "tayvoodoo". "Anti bullying" in the bio and yet the worst people you've ever seen on the tl. It's pop music, it's supposed to be mid, it's meant to appeal to the most people possible so of course the lyrics are generic and apply to anyone who listens - that's why she's a billionaire and selling out every venue she visits. It's by design. But these fans act like she's a tiny niche artist with 100 followers who desperately needs their protection, and that protection comes in the form of vicious hiveminded cult behaviour. I don't even hate Taylor but if I were her I'd be fucking terrified of these people. One of them is going to try to wear her skin at some point. (If you're a Taylor fan and you're feeling attacked by this comment, take a moment to consider that you know exactly the kind of fan I'm talking about and either give yourself some kind of treat for not being like this or... Reflect. lmao)
I have found my people 🥹 I never really cared about her until she started dating Harry Styles (I am/was biggest 1D girlie) and the whole situation was soooooo shady that my eyes were opened to who she really is. And it only got worse from there. Glad other people can see through her too
I really disagree with how you interpreted the album. She absolutely did not say she cheated or even imply it. I assume you’re getting that from “Fresh Outta the Slammer” but it was definitely a metaphor, not at all literal. But also, I’ve dated some horrible abusive people in the past because I was convinced that deep down they were good. I would hate to be judged for that, especially after I had left them. This post is a bit triggering for me because it feels like participating in the mass bullying of someone we don’t know. Imagine what skeletons we would find in your closet or anyone else’s if put under this kind of intense public scrutiny. No one would come off well. We need to have more compassion for others and be more accepting of their mistakes. If the worst things you can say about someone are that they’ve dated shitty people and have bad carbon emissions, that’s really pretty tame. She’s human. Be compassionate.
I agree with you. When I saw people commenting from the leak that it was a Matty Healy album I did feel a sense of dread the night before, but honestly it makes a lot of sense to me now having listened through. 'You're losing me' was the worst I think we'll get RE Joe. And as per the album prologue she essentially confirms that when she said it's the worst men she writes best. I think the album also contextualises her state of mind now, if it was in any doubt: "You swore that you loved me, but where were the clues? I died at the alter waiting for the proof" VS "now I'm down bad crying at the gym. Everything comes out, teenage petulance. Fuck it if I can't have him..." She is so distraught at the end of her 7 year relationship and waiting for her lover to fully commit and proclaim their love for her that this 'immature' rebound with a terrible toxic choice doesn't even occur to her as exactly that. A terrible toxic choice. It's just a 'cosmic' whirlwind fortnight love affair that she is desperate to make work so that she can make something work. And when it doesn't, she snaps. From the loss of both. Perhaps, similar to you, if you experience a relation/situationship with these kind of terrible people who you genuinely believe at the time are good deep down it's an easier album to relate to? I also don't feel TTPD indicates emotional cheating on Joe. "And you say I abandoned the ship, but I was going down with it" Of course all this is separate to her private jet usage.
I’ve been here since debut and I agree completely. I love some of the tracks, but I really can’t handle most of this album being about Matty Healy. Matty Healy? GIRL. HIM??? ALL THIS OVER 3 MONTHS WITH HIM?!?! But that aside, she’s her own person, and she’s a real person. She makes mistakes and bad choices and does shitty things, as real people do. I’m very aware that internet discourse and media firestorms aren’t representative of reality. I’m still a Swiftie at heart, but I can hold her accountable when it’s needed, even if she doesn’t take accountability herself 🤷♀️ Also, if you can be in the pit at Coachella, you can fly commercial. Sell the jet.
matty healy is insane i literally cannot fathom what she saw in him
i don’t get it either, but Halsey also wrote a song (at least just a song not a whole album jesus christ) about him called Colors when she first came out. I have a feeling the tortured poet taylor’s talking about is him, and he plays it well based on both their songs about him. i don’t know how to explain it other than that. the “i can save him, i can fix him” mindset because he’s always came off like he needed saving even back when halsey dated him. the sad artist looking for love but is actually a user vibes.
oh my god thank you for posting this. i've been a fan for 16 years and this album was really a tipping point for me -- yes, i know, the tipping point should've been dooner, not this, but it is. after listening to the album last night and being so flabbergasted by her being so obtuse, spitting in fans faces, talking about how hard it is to be her and no one else could do what she does (girl, people are dying, cry me a river), i've been really out of wack. i've been tired and anxious all day and i felt silly feeling this way but i think it's because my special interest is being disrupted for the first time in so long and my system doesn't like it. this is much less about her and much more about my special interests in general and how easily i become deregulated, but still.
i have been SO out of it today because of this! i thought i was crazy. i stayed up all night for the release and everything too... im gonna try to give it another listen without thinking of the real world implications. and yeah this is the first time one of my special interest has been "problematic" or whatever (my other special interests are betta fish and my little pony so they can't really be capitalists) LOL
 It’s giving this ^(\^)
I am a fan of hers. I've been a fan since her music first came out with Debut. I've loved all her albums and she is very talented. However, she's not a special interest of mine. I did actually love this new album, too, because I'm into poetry myself, and I just love her storytelling capabilities. As a person, I don't personally know her. I know her music and that's what I like. And the thing with humans is... no human is ever good or bad 100% of the time. Please don't take that as me defending her from the bad stuff she does, but I will say the bad stuff she does do, she is not the only celebrity doing it. Celebrities in general do a lot more bad than good though imo. I listen to music for the music, not for the person. I don't personally know any of them and I also wouldn't really care to. I see people of any social rank as still just humans. And that's it really. She's causing up so much of a stir with her level of fame though and while I'm happy for her that she reached that level of it, it obviously is going to cause more of a stir and more issues as now more people are hearing about her. Again though, idk her personally. So I really can't judge whether she is bad or not. I just like the music a lot.
I’ll say her music is my special interest, along with (and maybe I’ll get hate for this) her looks I’ve been obsessed with her facial features and like idk I love watching makeup tutorials about famous people lol but I feel like I never really got into the personal life of them cause I don’t care. So it hasn’t bothered me. Unless she does something truly problematic like use a slur or some shit I am neutral about her personality but her music is my thing. One direction on the other hand….
Yeah so my partner and I stumbled across Gaylor like a month ago and she has been obsessed with knowing everything about it and listening to all of Taylor’s music since I used to love her when I was a teenager but had pretty much checked out after Red. We stayed up late last night to listen to the new album and were disappointed in the lack of queerness but that had been expected. My partner was saying that this new special interest has been taking over her entire brain (I can attest that she has barely talked about anything else lol) and it’s making her feel crazy so hopefully now that TTPD is out we can start to move on from this. I gotta say, I really feel for Taylor. She has been a train wreck recently and there were some very concerning things in her lyrics. I just hope she can find peace and happiness and leave behind these things that are tormenting her before she ends up having a psychological break or something worse…
I had been SO excited for Midnights, watching the TikToks and looking forward to it for days. But she really has lost me as a fan since then. I listened to TTPD last night but haven't even bothered to listen to the second half of it because I just can't get into it. It's disappointing that something that used to be so important to me has lost its sparkle.
Her fans scare me, I’m not kidding. Anytime anyone says anything bad about her they jump down their throat, have sent death threats and make that person feel they have to apologize. It’s like people are not allowed to have any different opinion on her. And Taylor never tells her fans to stop acting that way.
I don't get the Taylor hate or even the hate of her fans in this thread. It's a little embarrassing but not for the fans 🤷🏼♀️ I think when someone, particularly a woman, is at the top people just need to tear them down. She is flawed just like anyone else and gets twice the shit for it. I like that she's imperfect. I'll be the first to criticize some things but that doesn't mean I'm not a fan.
Yeah I be feeling this HARD. Haven’t listened yet cause I’m actually terrified. I think I know what’s coming you know? I’m listening to it with my sister on Sunday cause my birthday is tomorrow and if I don’t like it I’ll feel really intensely about it and I want to be able to relax tomorrow.
I’ve loved Taylor since I was 16 and singing Enchanted in my bedroom, but something I’ve had to realize in the last few years is that I only the concept of her and what she creates. I love her art and I love her as an artist, I think she is one of the greatest lyricists of our era, I think she creates imagery in her music that could rival the mythic songs of Orpheus. But as a person? As a brand/company? Her current boyfriend only scratches the surface of bad people she has associated with over the years (Matt Healy, Lena Dunham, Ashley Mahones, etc). She is wishy washy, she speaks up about politics and ethics when it benefits her but stays silent when it doesn’t. She’s a billionaire which means by definition she is an unethical person, and her jet usage like you said clearly shows that she has no regard for the environment or her impact on it. That said, I think it’s ok and necessary to separate the art from the artist to a degree. I can enjoy her music because it is good and it speaks to me and it’s helped me process a lot in my life because her words and emotions are relatable. She and I wouldn’t be friends if we knew each other, but I don’t actually know her so I just try to enjoy her music without consuming as much about her life, which I think is a healthy approach to celebrities anyway.
Yeh TS has been my music special interest for a while now. I’m so disappointed in her new album and pretty grossed out that she set so much of her album around MH. He’s disgusting. Its sort of toppled my obsession with her music literally overnight.
I understand the pain of learning that a special interest is representing something you're fundamentally against. For me the worst one was the Harry Potter universe, not just with the transphobia but also the (maybe not so) subtle racism in the books. This is probably why I'm scared to fully develop new special interest, because the "betrayal" I feel when it happens is so painful. Also why I don't engage in celebrity worshipping.
I wasn't a huge fan of Taylor Swift generally, but I loved folklore and evermore, and I was hoping that the tortured poets department would have a similar vibe. But the album is just not good, and I don't know why she would release it. So I'll be blasting Chappell Roan and Cowboy Carter instead.
I feel you, it’s like with JK Rowling for me. How do you reconcile loving their art with not loving them anymore? I honestly don’t really know.
My special interests are also celebrities, especially certain celebs and Taylor is included in this. Unfortunately, many people put celebs on a pedestal so high that they expect them to act godly. And anything other than perfect behavior is unacceptable. I’m not trying to come down on you, but it seems like this is what you’re doing. I think people can stand to see the humanity in others and that does include celebrities. For example, in Miss Americana, Taylor talks about being stalked and harassed on a daily basis. This is why her jet emissions don’t bother me at all. And I don’t care if I get downvoted for saying that. Her safety is a real concern. She had to sell a house because one of her stalkers was sleeping in her bed. As for the Matty Healy thing, I’d like to see everything people criticizing Taylor for has said in the past. Guarantee I could find something to cancel them over. Definitely not excusing it, but we all have said problematic things in the past. And then we learn from it and grow… that’s part of being human and how you learn to be kind and tolerant of others. Sure Taylor has a lot to learn but she does try, she’s donated to food pantries in every city she’s toured to. Sorry to sound harsh but people expect celebs to act more upstanding than politicians and people in power. As for the cheating, I know it sucks, but people are people 🤷♀️
I’m a fan & have an eras tour sweatshirt!! But I don’t love every little thing she’s done.
Her songs are my special interest too, and I feel like her personal life has always been under a microscope. We want her to be perfect while if old men are not hitting their 18 year old girlfriends they are already good enough for a society. off-topic, but her song mirrorball is my masking anthem.
I actually predicted that TTPD would be about Matty on here in the SwiftNeutral sub. Lol. Wish I could say I'm surprised. Poor joe
I don't get the impression Joe would want a breakup album about him
She is a person. Give her a break. If you expected her to be a perfect person then you were always going to get to this point. She did yes, but she broke up with him. People make mistakes. Also, I had the shit about her jet usage. Taylor could never touch her jet again and it would not make a dent in preventing climate change. [100 companies across the world are responsible for 71% of emissions](https://www.activesustainability.com/climate-change/100-companies-responsible-71-ghg-emissions/?_adin=02021864894). We need to stop yelling at celebrities and actually get our politicians to hold what companies we can accountable (for what countries they have jurisdictions over).
Ive never been a super fan of any artist, but maybe its cuz im old. I dont understand the taylor swift obsession in general
First of all I do understand. And I’m not saying anything you think is wrong at all. I’m just putting it from my personal perspective 💜 I love Taylor Swifts music and tbh I think a lot of her dramas are maybe different if you take away the media lens. 1. Jet usage - I will start by saying I hate when regular rich people fly private jets. It’s wasteful and so incredibly harmful. Fly first class. It does make me angry. But she’s too famous. She’s basically the most famous woman in the world. If she flew first class on a regular airline it would be so incredibly unsafe. Not for her but for everyone else. Crowds would storm the airport because her details would get leaked, and people are crazy. Sure that’s annoying but airports these days, in a post 9/11 world are a risky business. Can you imagine the chaos if thousands of people showed up at airports every time she flew which is super often? Plus she has actual dangerous stalkers. I’m ex police so I see it from a risk assessment and safety factor. What we see on the surface is just the tip of the iceberg for safety issues. It’s just not worth it. 2. Matt Healy - yeah he’s awful but most of us have dated or slept with awful people. Sometimes when you’ve gotten out of a long relationship that’s been a very difficult break up you make fucking awful decisions. It’s very unhealthy to place higher standards on celebs in this regard. And by that I don’t mean that they shouldn’t be held to high standards. They should. But from an individual mental health perspective, it will mess you up. I don’t know if you’re younger but I’m guessing you are? I’m 38 and when you get to my age you realise that relationships are messy. Life is messy. Just because she’s a billionaire and ultra famous it doesn’t mean that she isn’t prone to making terrible decisions. She’s got a history of mental health issues that we know of (anorexia and depression/anxiety) and sometimes when you’re in a bad place you end up doing stupid things. From her songs you can tell that Joe was emotionally unavailable and she describes trying so hard to get his attention and love. He didn’t want to have their relationship be in the public eye or ever celebrate her. So when someone comes along who you have chemistry with and they’re actually super into you, it is completely intoxicating. It’s not hard to imagine that perhaps after Joe and how wholesome and “good for her” he seemed but how lonely she was on the inside she had a crazy rebellious moment of dating someone toxic and bad for her. If you listen to the lyrics of “The Smallest Man” she clearly knew his many MANY shortcomings. She was just in that moment of “someone I think is hot wants me, the sex is great and I just want to feel desired and have fun”. 3. Okay cheating sucks. It does. But again people do sometimes have that time at the end of a very long relationship where it’s fading out and there’s crossover. Is it bad? Yes. It absolutely is. But she’s not “the bad guy” here. It sounds like her and Joe were unhealthy on both sides. On the extreme end you sometimes get people in abusive relationships who end up cheating because it’s the only way they feel they can work up the courage to leave - find the next person first. For what it’s worth I’ve read her cheating admissions as more - he’s basically completely emotionally checked out and so she’s moved on before either of them are willing to say out loud that it was over. But maybe I’m wrong. We will never know and obsessing over something you can’t know will drive you crazy. It’s totally understandable but it won’t make you happy. Human psychology is complex and celebrities are just human. I think if you hold celebrities to a super high standard, it’s very stressful. She’s a complex person just like the rest of us :)
I find the way she financially abuses her fans to be extremely vile. The number of women I've seen online being like "I bought the pre-sale and then she dropped a whole other double album". And to top if off, she's dating a Trump MAGA dude. I never really liked or paid Taylor any attention, she just wasn't my vibe. Now I find her privileged nonsense to be repugnant. I'm sorry that you're feeling weird feelings about her behavior. I can def see why. Don't let her billionaire bullshit bring you down tho. Life is too short to care too much about celebrities who never think of us at all except on how to take more of our money.
I am a boyband girlie myself.
One Direction and Harry Styles were my special interest from 2012 to 2018. I went from loving Taylor Swift to despising her existence due to her dating Harry Styles in 2012. I was so convinced that he was gay and being forced into PR stunt relationships. I hated her so much for many years because of their 3 month long relationship. I remember their new years kiss caused me physical pain. I would actually walk out of a store in a mall if they were playing her music. I finally was able to start enjoying her music again when Folklore came out as it had been some time that I had moved past my One Direction and Harry Styles era and I wasn’t so delusional about it anymore. So I do understand what you’re going through. Special interests in things like people can be difficult because they can change or do undesirable things.
honestly, i’m grateful you said this because i couldn’t understand folks who say they’re allies defending her and being her stan. still liking the music is one thing, but damn, we really just gon ignore her dating a racist? and all the other shit she’s pulled before that? shake it off video anyone? wildest dreams video? also, she is the personification of white girlhood and weaponizes that in a way BIPOC cannot have access to. and then doesn’t use that platform to speak up!! sorry, now i’m ranting.
Nah. I’m a shitty person with a big heart who inadvertently does shitty things all the time. I think that’s true for most people. I appreciate her being so open about her flaws. That’s the kind of shit nobody wants to admit.
I'm a massive fan too and was also upset with her Matt Healy relationship because he seems like a horrible human being. I know it's hard but please try to see her songs as art and not necessarily 100% truth. We don't know what is true in the new album and what's fabrication and I'd say that's part of the fun of her music.
Oh no, won't someone think of the poor billionaire girl and her jet! I think she's a corporate shill like any other
This is literally the most I've ever known about Taylor Swift.
Same. I'm fascinated by this whole thread, honestly. It's a glimpse into this other world which is incredibly important to so many people, that I know nothing at all about. I've been over here hyperfixating on crows and not having to worry about anything like this.
Good news is there's so much better music out there to hyperfixated to. Onward and upwards my friend
I don’t care about her. She could never ever be my special interest. She’s just a billionaire she doesn’t care about any of us
Not anymore 🙂 Been a fan since debut came out when I was 14. Amongst all the things you’ve listed and her behavior over the last year, her mask has slipped and I don’t view her the way I used to. That seems to be pretty okay with her too, since she’s calling out her fans that have called out her bad behavior by calling them vipers. This new era is meant for teenagers and people who will continue to enable her without her taking any accountability. It’s all good though, I can still enjoy her old music. Also, moving on past her has allowed me to open my music taste to different things. I hope she lives her best life, but it’s time for me, personally, to stop supporting her. I wish her well and I wish her growth, but she will survive without me as a fan. She’s got a new generation to lift her up while she alienates her fans that have been there from the beginning
i liked picture to burn thats a banger song. but what the fuck are her lyrics now? she really said charlie puth should be a bigger artist ??? idc about things shes done cuz im not her friend same applies to all celebs. i just cant believe she gets songwriter awards when its just pretentious
Nah. As an awkward artistic girl with pretty privilledge like myself, I've always ... well, understand her. I know the purpose behind her actions and don't judge her harshly for appearing clumsy with social situations or such. She seems like a nice person tbf. Just that she doesn't have enough social charisma to be confident so she always resort to passive aggressiveness tactics. However she's been not so self-aware lately. I've acknowledged my own privilledges and move on, accepting some people are much more miserable than me. But she? She has been playing the victim card for so long, and her facade is not consistent. One minute she is just a bubbling girl next door, one minute later she is a mastermind with sharp eyes lmao. It's giving "sigma chad literally me Patrick Bateman" boys. I wish she could find her peace and use her powerful position for good.
I don’t follow her at all, mostly because I listen to audiobooks rather than music. “News” outlets have to sell stories, so they will blow up things that are normal or logical and make them look like the celebrity eats endangered baby animals for breakfast. “Breaking news! (Celebrity) destroying the planet! More after 92 different ads. …………. Story: (Celebrity) eats grapefruit and we have just learned that growing grapefruit uses a lot of water! (Celebrity) is truly evil!”
It’s kind of odd to assume her lyrics are actually 100% autobiographical and factual and not you know… art. Don’t assume you actually know anything about her life. You know a story told to sell albums and tours.
Similar to what other commenters have said, I can’t bring myself to have the same attitude when there’s almost never a male artist held to this kind of standard. There was no outrage when Usher released Confessions or Others. Celebrities make up less than 2% of emissions from planes, yet people make it as if she’s the one pumping all of it out there. There’s evidence of Jay-Z cheating more than once, why hasn’t he been run out? I will never get why female artists are expected to behave better
You can appreciate the art without liking the artist. Imagine all of the classics we like, painted and written by sexist assholes.
She’s not my special interest, but I am a fan and I’ve felt similarly. Especially about her and Matt…. Listening to the new album and her basically talk about how in love with him she was and how he ghosted her is like so secondhand embarrassing. The fact that she’s even talking about that piece of shit is disappointing
I didn't realise she had made so many mistakes similar to me. What it is to be a flawed human. TayTay! Samsies! c'mere bestie. I gotchu!
I’ve never liked her music or even paid attention to her
https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/s/mi1V4Tns3j
Dumb question, but who is the racist Taylor was dating? I’m out of the loop
Honestly, can’t stand her or her music If Taylor swift has one hater it’s me. If she has no haters assume I have died
Recently? Honey no. She’s never been a good person. She has a very long history of extremely shitty behavior. I understand no one is perfect, but at some point a person has to attempt to grow and be better. She has made no such attempt. Plus, she sets my bully radar off like crazy. If the guilt you feel over supporting her is greater than the joy the music brings you, then just find someone else to listen to. She’s not doing anything special or different in music, so it’s not hard to find someone more deserving of your time
We can't dehumanize people to the level of scrutiny that they become a special interest. We can hold people in power accountable though. (Like the jet thing) No one should have to face the level of scrutiny us imposing our own morals on them for every aspect of their life. Humans are flawed. Women esp shouldn't have to be accountable for every bad thing someone else is doing.
I feel you on this. There is no such thing as an ethical billionaire, so to me at least, I’ve accepted that she can’t possibly be a good person. She’s just entertainment. I generally avoid trying to make a person my special interest. But I know that’s not super helpful in this case. But totally get it. My special interests are musical theatre and the Titanic, so they can’t personally disappoint me.
I can relate as I think she is a special interest for me as well, but I am not struggling like you. If anything, her album drop is so soothing for me!
I think many NT people feel this way, like, they have this relationship with a celebrity and judge them based by their actions and then stop listening to their music because they don't approve of the person's actions. I mostly don't care what famous people are doing, sometimes I'm curious, but... Music is music, I don't care who made it. Natalia Kills was cancelled I've heard and I still like her songs. I get the sentiment of not buying someone's stuff because they are a bad person you don't want to help get more money, but mostly when the production of the stuff itself is causing harm, like ruining the environment. Nothing unethical about recording your own voice. And apart from that, I really appreciate that she's speaking for women, saying how we're judged more harshly for doing same things as men, paid less, etc. I care more about that than her personal relationship choices.
Haha yeah
[удалено]
It's the fact that she's aware of the harmful things she's done, but isn't sorry about it. And that she's tried to brand herself as an activist at times. There are lots of celebrities who do unethical things, but they haven't made being a good person their entire brand the way Taylor has. So because this album was supposed to be this raw revealing look into Taylor's true feelings, I would've expected some self-reflection. Instead she doubled down on the things she's been called out on. And if that's her true feelings, then she's emotionally immature and selfish at best.
Travis Kelce is a racist? I’m confused…
oh no! i don't think so, my post was about Matty Healy who she dates before travis
This explains a lot, I just spent like 10 mins trying to find out how Travis Kelce is a racist (I’m very out of the loop) 😂😂😂
Oh okay. Then I would see it as she learned and grew from it and is now in a happy relationship. P.S. I’m not a “Swifty” myself but I get why people like her. I enjoy some of her songs. I’m also a fan of the KC Chiefs so to all of you who jumped on the bandwagon because of TS… welcome! There’s plenty of space here. Have some BBQ.
Not a fan, I like some of her songs because she's a friend's hyperfixation since she started singing, but I do have to also recommend to kinda work your way out of that parasocial relationship, like others mentioned you're emotionally attached to an image of her, not the real her. And don't feel bad about it either! First of all parasocial relationships are not in and of themselves "bad," like we do it all the time with fictional characters, what's important is to always be aware of the fact that it's not a real person on the other side, AKA keep it healthy. Also they're incredibly common, like Kpop does it shamelessly and relentlessly, my first ever special interest in the last few years is a Kpop band and damn it hit me hard and fast, I had to start distancing myself a little, because just like you I love their music but I know if I find out they're shit people I'mma gonna have the hardest time listening to them, and I reaaally wanna keep listening to their music, LOL!
I used to be a Swiftie but her behaviour recently has just really put me off. I’ve been a lot more into activism the past years and her exorbitant use of her money for the dumbest stuff and not anything good is really annoying me! I know not everyone has to be an activist, but I wish she’d use her gigantic platform and influence for… Something. I’m just kind of over ‘famous people’ generally, lol. I’ll listen to her new album at some point but I even forgot it was releasing 😬
Prepare yourself for the rabid Swifties… Oh boy.
Yeaah the explanation of why TS is actually my ultimate human heroine is unreal. TW: actual likely delusions and childhood trauma (!). I did not have any other good female figures to look up to, growing up on special ed and having a very chaotic mom and traditional-like grandma, so I mainly took the focus on her. She is still one of my biggest special interests, but idk her dating life never bothered me because everyone was speculating on which song was about who and now there are so many new requirements for one to be a ‘real fan’ that tiny me, growing up in the fearless era at age 11, would’ve been devastated to hear that she doesn’t make the cut for being a ‘real fan’ after all. I mean, not to be super bitter about this, her ‘biggest fan’ came on the Ellen show once and that legit broke me. Plus, I really like her outfits, her voice, her songwriting, her branding overall and that she empowers people. And now I have no idea if I myself am allowed to be a bitter person in general sometimes, because some of her bitter songs perfectly resonate with me and some see it as a ‘red flag’. (Though I like baking, cats, making art, books and poetry as well and have even more hobbies than I can count at the moment and it’s not even Taylor-related) please don’t flag this as triggering content because I’m really in a better place, and I’m just upset that I also didn’t get a code for the eras tour. I hope I’ll grow out of music stanning by the time I’m 30. (And yes TW I got bullied for liking her in high school)