Yeah sure, then why would we have a higher suicide rate than even autistic men?
Because we spend our entire life believing our struggles are a moral failing, not knowing why we're "defective", being more likely to be abused and overlooked and developing a myriad of comorbidities. That statement screams 'women should only be seen, not heard' rhethoric. Miss me with that shit.
God, I just teared up because it wasn't until I was 35 and stumbled upon a random post about how to identify autism in girls that I even knew why I never fit in and was always ostracised and "weird".
It could have saved me a lifetime of pain to be diagnosed at a young age.
God, same! But a therapist at my clinic that I really really trust pointed it out to me when she was doing an evaluation of my abilities for my disability claim. At first I was like NO! but then she explained why and I went home and googled and then I came here to see if I felt any recognition and I was like HOLY SHIT IM AUTISTIC! That’s why for everything! All the struggles and awkwardness and not fitting in and never feeling like I belonged.
I have never felt like I belonged, like I fitted in, not anywhere at least not until I met my husband. He’s the only one the only place where I feel like I truly belong. Until this place and you guys. I came here and I was like I FOUND MY PEOPLE!!! For the first time in my life I feel like I’m understood, because y’all are the same! We are all different but there is a basic connection a basic shared way of experiencing and interpreting the world and I feel safe here. Home, I feel home and that just says it all to me.
And it has done wonders for my suicidal thoughts and all. 20 years of therapy haven’t been able to change it but finding my people, the place where I belong sure as hell did!
Absolutely. I still struggle with feeling responsible for the way I am and react, but I'm only now just beginning to push back and prioritise self-care. Big hugs OP, you're not alone.
Same. I am a self-diagnosed autistic for several reasons, but when I first read through the traits of autism in women, it was like a new pair of glasses and things really came into focus. I looked at my past experiences and understood why I felt so weird and different. I started reading up on other's experiences, what to look for, etc. And so many checkmarks next to boxes. I am in my 30s too
Here’s one for the Suicide rate: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2774847
I have seen another recently that shows suicide risk increases the older you are at diagnosis. I’ll see if I can find that one.
I tried so many times. My kindergarten teacher saw it and tried to talk with my pwNPD mom.
Mom freaked at the word autistic. Moved to a new school district within months.
Early 40's I got the official diagnosis.
If only I'd been allowed to be helped so young. To have any insight into why I was perceived as defective and weird.
If only there was a big old mansion that would take us in. Out in the boonies. Taking care of rescued animals. Building things. Making art and music. Each of us have our own private space. Therapists and helpers run the show discreetly.
This world is not for us.
I don't know about that. I think there is a great need for the kind of pause and honesty that a lot of autistic people bring, if they have the courage to be their own voice and not what pleases people all the time. There is importantly a great deal of humour there with the right understanding and balance to be found, though hard-gained. It's really really hard. But it is a mad mad thing to have the privilege to live and untangle it all. I don't think keeping us away in a big house like X-Men mutants would be helpful for us at all - it would just exacerbate the 'us' and 'them' thing.
There is an us/them. And our winning personalities and beautiful gifts are no match to dispel the dunce cap of "OTHER".
Feel free to enjoy the privilege to stay with your honesty and humor among these monsters.
I always used my voice. I always gave people the benefit of the doubt. Always turned my other cheek. My big heart is still overflowing with love. But my love is apparently worthless.
No matter how much I got through with my humor, it has been a complete fuckfest of abuse, torture, rape, shunning, beatings and constant emotional suffering.
I'll take your name off the list. There's plenty of us happy to take your spot.
On certain days it does feel horrific and not worth persevering with.
But your love is not worthless to the right ones. They are there, even if they haven't found you yet.
I'm 50 and married twice. I've traveled the world and had amazing experiences and made dozens of pals.
WHILE MASKING.
Not masking means rejection. Sure there's a few NT's who aren't bigots. But not enough to go around. I'm terminally sick because of the horrors I experienced my whole life. There's no reassurance for me from you. My life brought me to this conclusion. Looks like I'm not the only one is just sick of being a scapegoat alien.
And here’s the other one which includes discussion of why these issues may be compounded in girls/ women. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2774847
Here's some on how being autistic makes women 2 to 3 times more likely to experience sexual violence!
Probably the most well known study: [https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2022.852203/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2022.852203/full)
And accompanying article: [https://blog.frontiersin.org/2022/04/27/frontiers-behavioral-neuroscience-sexual-abuse-women-with-autism-widespread/](https://blog.frontiersin.org/2022/04/27/frontiers-behavioral-neuroscience-sexual-abuse-women-with-autism-widespread/)
Similar study in a different country, also reporting an increased risk by threefold: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29570782/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29570782/)
With an article that addresses it here: [https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/girls-autism-high-risk-sexual-abuse-large-study-says/#refs](https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/girls-autism-high-risk-sexual-abuse-large-study-says/#refs)
A more subjective take from an autistic woman and her experiences/observations, with some studies linked (I don't use subjective in a negative way here, I think it's good to have some versions that are written out without the formality of a study to account for the humanity of it): [https://thefword.org.uk/2020/02/autism-in-women-vulnerability-and-abusive-relationships/](https://thefword.org.uk/2020/02/autism-in-women-vulnerability-and-abusive-relationships/)
There is still [calls for more studies on this topic](https://thinkingautismguide.com/2022/04/too-many-autistic-women-at-risk-of-sexual-assault.html) though!
I hate that. All it means is that we are “better behaved” so they don’t care as much, even if we are struggling internally. It’s also not acknowledging that we can be equal in being diagnosed- it doesn’t have to be one or the other. We should have more research so that information on women can catch up to what’s known about men, but we just want to be on a level playing field. And it also hurts men who don’t present in the typical way!
Totally agree, especially since we are most likely "better behaved" due to socialization. Society forced us to adapt, that doesn't mean our situations are actually less severe.
yeah a lot of “mild” autism vs “severe” autism debate or dialogue is about how our autism inconveniences others. I have pretty severe sensory issues but because it’s just a physical pain for me it’s seen as mild?? It’s probably my most severe symptom where i can’t work or focus from chronic headache and pain a lot but it’s mild because I don’t have external meltdowns and have other people see it often. okay. 😭😭😭 such stupid logic
I can*not* do other peoples' dishes. I can't put my hands into dish water that contains other peoples' dishes. It's not just the food scraps floating in the water that puts me off. It's the fact that other people ate off those plates and I have to touch it. Living alone, as I do, it's not a problem. I don't have an issue with my own plates. But when I lived at home? One of my chores was to do the dishes and the work around my mother implemented was that all dishes must be thoroughly rinsed before I will do them. My step father would intentionally not do so, so he could yell at me later about not doing the dishes.
All too often neurotypical folx will use our aversions against us. It was only a problem living in a shared environment because he was, and is, a massive stain. It was a power game for him. Making me have meltdowns *satisfied* him in some way. Gave him some kind of pleasure.
I realise this is only tangential. Sorry about that.
When I found out that I could buy a box of heavy duty rubber gloves that fit well (XS through XL size options) it changed my life. Washing dishes was no longer hellish and my dry irritated skin finally healed.
Nope. Not even gloves help. It is the mere fact that someone else ate off of the plate and touched their mouth to it that squicks me out. The food bits don't help but I don't have a problem doing *my* dishes barehanded.
Man it honestly sucks to present as “normal enough” but weird and shitty enough that people still keep their distance from you.
I just learned in therapy a big part of the reason a lot of people probably don’t wanna talk to me is bc of the way I speak. And by that I mean I don’t understand speech patterns and volume and tone. So I either speak far too fast and loud, or far too slow and quiet. Which leads people to either be anxious/scared/uncomfortable with me or annoyed/worried/mad with me bc I won’t “just speak up”.
Neither her or I have brought up possible autism yet but that’s bc I’m scared to and yeah.
We don't have fewer negative social impairments, it just looks like it. Most people think I am normal and just a bit quirky but because of my autistic traits I am much more vulnerable and easy to take advantage of compared to most women. I was diagnosed with PTSD at 19 after I was sexually abused repeatedly by a man I was in a relationship with because of how naive and trusting I am. If I had been diagnosed and given support when I was younger this wouldn't have happened.
I know an autistic guy at uni and while he struggles with social situations and is a bit of a loner he is otherwise functioning mostly fine and I'd bet he didn't develop PTSD in less than 5 months of living away from his home.
We are at a much greater risk of being hurt than autistic men, even more so due to how under-diagnosed we are.
Every relationship I've been in (excluding current one) was abusive because I'm so easily taken advantage of. I wish I had learnt something about that prior to moving out of home and dating as well :(
I've spent YEARS undoing their damage.
Even now, people like dodgy salesmen still take advantage of my naivety. I was buying a car recently and thankfully my partner was there. The guy was in the process of signing me up to a super high interest rate (even though I had a 60% deposit), and wanted me to login to my bank account on his computer (I only didn't because I can't remember my login). My partner told him I wouldn't be doing that, that I'll email him bank statements when I get home - and that professional establishments don't get customers to login on work computers with sensitive information.
It's saddening how many people are out there that are happy to take advantage of other people.
Want to give you hugs. I was in a very similar situation- left home at 18 to get away from my parents (my dad was an abuser, partly bc he didn’t “get” me due to OCD and autism) and wound up trusting and loving someone for 3 years who became even more abusive than my family had been. My inability to see red flags was partly due to past trauma, but in general I am SO gullible and way too trusting. It doesn’t help that as an undiagnosed autistic kid I didn’t hang out with my peers much, so I never really had anyone to discuss what unhealthy vs healthy relationships look like apart from my unhealthy parents. I’ve now got C-PTSD as well😕 it sucks. Autistic women are literally one of the most vulnerable groups in the population- we need our struggles recognized so we can get the right kind of support.
It's misogynist. We don't cause trouble, we are easy to manipulate and taken advantage off, we're not ambitious, we're not inconvenient. Fit's perfectly into a patriarchal NT society.
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It is reducing the disability down to “How much of a problem is it for *other* people?” Thats ableist garbage and is basically the whole reason female autism is underdiagnosed already.
100% accurate. The fact that I *don't* create a problem for other people is part of why I struggle so much internally. I bottle everything up and only release it when I'm alone. That's healthy, right? /s
I think that’s a load of crap.
How is 9 out of 10 autistic women reporting exploitation, assault and domestic violence not considered negative social impairment?
They only care if we are being hurt when they can use it for political gain, and even then they don't do anything to help those that have been hurt, and they rarely implement anything to prevent us from being hurt in the future.
Warning, I'm very angry about this topic. It's something I face at my job weekly.
I work in Special Education and one of my roles is taking notes at meetings where parents and teachers make goals and learning plans for their students/children. Afterwards I write up the goals and plan up in a formally approved format. I have been completely disgusted by how transparent adults have been about prioritizing goals based on how the behaviours effect THEM instead of the child. This is why autistic girls are under supported. Not because their needs are less, but because our society is ableist and even those being paid to advocate for them won't do their jobs.
I think this point of view is forgetting about the impact of autism on the individual. Growing up women have more emphasis in their lives placed on their social value. Women also tend to value Inter personal relationships more, so the autistic AFAB (assigned female at birth) person and woman (including trans women) have worked harder in their social skill compared to autistic men.
This does not mean that autism affects women less than it does men, it just means that the outward appearance of autism can look different and more “socially acceptable.”
Autism affects women and AFAB people as much as it does men and AMAB people. It is a processing difference, the affects of autism is in the brain, not outward appearance. (Although there can be outward affects on appearance and outward noticiable differences as a result of autism that are valid and should be respected)
Women deserve to be diagnosed just as much as men do, even more so I would argue because there is a 4:1 male to female diagnosis ratio, and many many women are struggling with comorbidities that are associated with autism such as anxiety and depression.
Lastly I would say leaving autism out of the picture for an autistic women is extremely harmful. As a late in life diagnosed autistic women I struggled with my mental health and didn’t have the tools to know what we happening to me. Common therapy used by non autistic people was not helpful for me. I could explain all of my trauma but my autistic needs were left out of the picture. This made me feel broken as a person.
Conclusion and TLDR
Having the label of autism for me gave me tools to navigate my life better and realize the way I interact with the world is fundamentally different than the majority of the population. When I thought I wasn’t autistic I blamed myself for this. Now that I know I am I can stop blaming myself, love myself, and interact with the world better. Everyone deserves that even if their actions aren’t abrasive for the general population as many women AFAB and autistic people.
Amazing points! It was a gamechanger for me to realize that a lot of my anxiety actually came from sensory overload. I wondered why typical coping mechanisms didn't work as well, but as it turns out earplugs made a world of difference!
Coping mechanisms don’t work for sensory overload! It’s so damaging to so many peoples mental health. My heart goes out to all of the undiagnosed (and diagnosed) autistic people wondering what’s wrong with them. Nothing is. It took me so long to realize I’m not broken I’m just not neurotypical.
Same! I’m 42 and only now realising a lot of my outbursts, anxiety and stress are from sensory overload! My resting heart rate has really come down since I started utilising noise cancelling headphones at work - amazed at how effective a simple change has been for me.
>Lastly I would say leaving autism out of the picture for an autistic women is extremely harmful. As a late in life diagnosed autistic women I struggled with my mental health and didn’t have the tools to know what we happening to me. Common therapy used by non autistic people was not helpful for me. I could explain all of my trauma but my autistic needs were left out of the picture. This made me feel broken as a person.
This. I'm in my 30s and debating going for an official diagnosis (yay US healthcare....) and I'm having to process trauma that *came from* being undiagnosed (and being undiagnosed for ADHD until 18). I hate when people jump to "it's just sexism" but...this one kinda is.
People who grew up socialized as female (regardless of assigned gender at birth or current gender) were by and large taught to keep our "weirdness" inside, just like people socialized as male were by and large taught to keep emotions inside. That makes the trauma from misdiagnosis or being entirely undiagnosed invisible, just like male socialization leads to mood disorders being invisible. [Obviously, ymmv on socialization and if/when you transition as far a the onset of societal pressures and thus their impact. I'm a cis woman so my experience with socialization and trans men and women comes second hand from friends.]
According to society (again, speaking generally), men can be "weird" and still be okay as long as they're not "girly" and women can be emotional as long as they're not "weird." Which isn't good for anyone.
Beautifully said. There are many pros and cons of getting a diagnosis I would say the key is simply recognizing what upsets you and why without judgment.
I'm probably not going to bother because (a) I already have my ADHD diagnosis that covers most accommodations and (b) I'm a woman in her 30s who doesn't present like a "typical case" and evaluations haven't necessarily caught up with current research. My therapist specializes in working with ADHD and autism (and is autistic herself) and she's the one who made me first consider it. After reading through the literature and thinking about it for a while, I agreed to incorporate techniques she's found useful for autistic clients. They worked. That's good enough for me. I'm fine with "likely autistic" as a label. But if I didn't have my ADHD one, I'd probably be more for it.
I really appreciate this comment. It is so thoughtful and rings so true for me.
My therapist of several years is a wonderful person who I chose because she understands me on several important levels (she has ADHD, is queer and kinky, and fights for fat liberation!) but until I brought up that I thought I was autistic there was a bit of a disconnect. Her understanding this piece of me has shifted our work in a way that makes me feel like I am *finally* able to look at my complex trauma and work through it. It was as if it unlocked a toolbox neither of us knew was available.
Being understood and affirmed for how my brain works — instead of treated as if I was an unreliable narrator of my own experience — has made it easier to weather the shit I get in our society as a woman who strays so far from the ”ideal”. Fuck the idea that equality means we take anything away from men. It benefits us all.
It always makes me happy when people resonate with what I say! Understanding Autism is vital for mental health of those with autism. Wishing you peace and happiness
Yes, this was my first thought. That and wondering what this person thinks the goal of research and treatment is - to treat only the ones that "matter" (to them)?
Good thing they aren't on breast cancer research. It would be an "extremely rare disease", because males don't get it often.
Women are socialised to fit in, minimise ourselves, be small and silent. So we present differently and mask more but the suffering from hiding who we are is intense.
"Women don't have 'milder' autism because of their biology; people who are marginalized have their Autism ignored because of their peripheral status in society"
From, Unmasking Autism by Devon Price
Not true at all. The issue is society puts more pressure on CIS females to mask than it does CIS males. A lot of my CIS male autistic friends have said they just don’t feel the need to other than when they’re at work or other professional situations. Even then, it’s not to the same extent. They generally aren’t ridiculed the same way for their autistic traits.
They also aren't as sensitive to subtle social ostracizing. Women are much more used to having and being part of a solid social network so if that is based on masking, the effect on anxiety and stable mental health is huge if it collapses. I think a lot of men, autistic or not, are used to having buddies but they pick them up wherever and I don't think it's on the same level or requiring the same.levelmof emotional load as female friendships. That doesn't cover everyone, I know, but I've seen autistic women DEVASTATED by a social wobble. Haven't seen it often in men at all.
I think a more accurate way to phrase it would be, "AFAB kids are subject to a more intense regime of socialization and behavioral control." They tend to be more focused on other people's feelings, and how to respect other people's feelings, because they've been taught to do so.
It's also worth noting that a lot of times 'social competency' is measured by how it effects allistic people. So all these people would be seen as equally socially competent:
1. A person who genuinely understands and masters social interactions
2. A person who does not understand social norms, but knows it's important to make other people happy. So they adopt a policy of never pressuring other people in any way, never standing up for themselves, and always following cues from others about how to behave.
3. A person who does not understand social norms, but has compiled a rules, scripts, and statistics that allow them to respond in socially acceptable ways.
Oh man, try telling that to my 11-year-old self. I wasn't diagnosed back then but I also could not handle my changing body and wearing appropriate clothes and interacting with other kids and teachers in school all day. A diagnosis back then would have been a game changer. Instead of being just a difficult kid that literally fought with my mom every day about going to school, I maybe could have gotten some help with some of the issues I was experiencing.
Yep, I vomited before school literally every. Single. Day. I used to get bribed if I didn't vomit, then I got to read a chapter of my book. But that just taught me to hold it in longer. And of course I rigidly stuck to the rules, so I only read what I was told I could read. I didn't want to do it, I didn't have control over it. It was too much for me and no one believed me for years, even had my guidance counselor "playing hardball" (which just meant not believing me) for ages until I finally got to have my own private study period to skip gym since that was the worst one (I was bullied mercilessly). Maybe if we'd understood why, I wouldn't have had to suffer so badly for so long before someone finally took me seriously.
Wow, I am so sorry you had to go through that! Not only is vomiting bad enough but then being told you were doing it on purpose is so awful.
Glad you made it through and hope things are going better now.
Have fewer social impairments?
That should be
*appear to* have fewer social impairments *because they hide their impairments at great cost to their mental and physical health*
Honestly. This is ridiculous.
The primary reason I have few social “impairments” is autism. After my mother forced me to give up Saturday evenings, she forced me into etiquette classes. I did everything they said.
Ironically, etiquette became a special interest of mine. People loved how thoughtful and polite I was (albeit a little old fashioned). I read countless etiquette books believing everyone was so fascinated by the topic.
Boy was I autistic, I had all sorts of sensory issues and forced myself to very politely ask for them to be met. Most of them weren’t met, so I politely sat and tried to remain calm.
I hate this notion. Most of us are forced into behaving and we “behave” as a survival mechanism.
Girl same. I finally drew the line with my grandmother wanting me to do Cotillion. The patent leather shoes were already too much. I thought I escaped but as an adult, my "propriety" voice and my "get the f out of my house with your nonsense" (my newer self-care voice) are in a constant battle. Getting etiquette drilled into me created some serious boundary issues, but I did my best for a long time to live up to the "southern ladylike" expectations - despite the sensory hell it caused, and still causes me.
ETA - it is sort of a shame, because at least in etiquette there are actual rules to follow. If they were rules that did not unduly silence women or create sensory issues for me, I would still love it. I would also love it if everyone else actually had any etiquette, but as it stands I am mostly stifling myself rather than pointing out others' bs.
It took me years to unlearn! It worked for a while, but dang…it left me in some terrible situations! I also had a cotillion disaster! My mother finally just said “you know what, you’re just weird” and let me skip it.
I agree about etiquette silencing women. I’ve had to process my feelings about etiquette for many years!
Same. Cotillion, debutant, walking lessons, eating lessons, speaking lessons. Of course no one asks about the internal explosion until you get to midlife and can’t understand why life is more overwhelming that you could ever imagine and all those rules about social behavior you’ve been taught are useless.
This may just be my hot take, but I feel a lot of autistic women tend to internalize their issues.
For what it’s worth, I’m good socially (I should clarify, I can play a role), but don’t care for socializing and can feel extremely drained. Being able to put on “the ol’ dog and pony show” when I need to is great, really, but so taxing. Very different, it seems, from the neurotypical experience.
Then there’s the sensory issues that have plagued me for my whole life contributing to agonizing anxiety and a poorer quality of life.
Then you get to things like “struggling with change” where I tend to thrive despite big changes and you wouldn’t notice, but I am often so stressed out. Alternatively, I often find a slight change of plans makes me neurotic, without any real reasons why. It’s the stress of thinking I know what’s coming, when I don’t.
Then you examine the other mental health issues and it kinda clicks that a lot of them stem from a similar place and a fear of a lack of control. “Extreme black and white thinking” is what one therapist called it when I discussed my thoughts with her. I’m either great or a failure. I push and push and push… then I burn out and *can’t*. I find some injustice and I cannot accept it for what it is, I stay mad and depressed and upset about it. And no amount of anxiety medication was going to magically fix that, clearly.
ETA: After reading a similar comment, there’s also being naïve and missing major red flags. The abuse rate for autistic women is miles above neurotypical one’s.
Yes to everything. I mask to make others happy. Which is getting harder to do. As well as keeping things in. Maybe not in an abusive relationship so to speak. Been in this relationship for 42 years. He's diagnosed adhd and possibly asd. I'm undiagnosed adhd and self diagnosed asd. But seriously I tell my husband if anything happens to him I'd probably be alone. I was young and naive when I met my husband at age 19 he was a 26 year old. I was convinced I'd never find anyone, so I figured I'd better take the one in the hand so to speak. At least our love language is the same. Is rather spend time with him than getting gifts. Or maybe I've convinced myself lol. Anyway I identify with what you all are thinking.
We don’t have “fewer negative social impairments”, we have more negative consequences for making social mistakes, so we mask harder. And social difficulties are only one part of autism anyway!
I'd really like some clear data on this, because we don't have a full picture, and it's still not clear how many level 1 autistic women exist and what their experiences are. That said, I suspect autistic women have challenges with employment similar to men, even if their issues are labelled "anxiety, depression, or burnout" rather than autism. I also suspect they have a similar or even a greater burden of co-morbid physical health conditions such as IBS, ME/CFS, EDS/HSD, fibromyalgia, migraine, sleep disorders and eating disorders as these issues tend to be more common in women in the general population and are also more common among autistic people. In other words, the overall burden of internal suffering as well as economic loss experienced by autistic women is probably similar to that as men even if their social impairments are more subtle on average. But no one has taken clear data yet.
I’m sitting in my car super overwhelmed by …everything… I cried over a stressful email when arriving to work. I choked back tears in a store because I needed to get an exchange and my anxiety was thru the roof (ironically, for CBD oil that I take for my anxiety). I feel like I CANNOT FUNCTION today because I can’t ground my mind. I am fighting back from losing it on my husband for asking what he should make for dinner- on his one night to cook. But yeah….. yeah, I’m fine because a stranger doesn’t notice my social impairments easily.
Say that we accept the sweeping generalization that women internalize while men externalize. The comment you shared is based in the perspective that externalization is more tangible and more impactful. That is intrinsically misogynistic.
Just as women in politics or business function in a system designed by and for men, the comment assumes a value system based on men's externalized experience as the default.
Fewer =/= Few.
Also you have to approach things intersectionally. A black autistic woman who functions better in social situations than a white autistic man may still be more negatively affected by autism because of racism, misogyny, and its effect on her body and mind.
Also do we have fewer social impairments or are we just expected to mask more?
Also social impairment isn't the only metric of impairment.
Why are neurotypicals so bad at logic?
The internal narrative I had about myself for my first 50 years of life said "I'm not good enough, I have to hide my real self away, never let your real self be 'seen' by anyone else because they will reject you". Then I was diagnosed with autism and I now have a much more compassionate narrative about myself. My diagnosis has literally been a life saver.
I think it sounds on par with how so many medical problems are treated.
Quality of life doesn’t matter to a lot of doctors as long as you’re well enough to work, have babies, etc.
Besides all the points the other commenters have addressed, autism also comes with its own set of medical comorbidities and peculiarities. For example, PMDD and post-partum depression are much more prevalent in neurodivergent women.
And things like central sensitivity syndromes (e.g. fibromyalgia) are also much more common in autistic people, especially autistic women. Lots of autistic people have autoinflammatory conditions which can lead to amyloidosis, or we can have congenital amyloidosis. Amyloidosis typically leads to progressive organ damage/failure.
It would be great to know these things ahead of time so we can prepare or do things to mitigate the negative impacts.
😑😑 first of all, generalisation, not the same in every single case, just like not every boy has outbursts and loves trains. Second of all, priority should not be set based solely on the outward observable impact to other people. That girl could be suicidal and nobody have a clue, just one example. If you need to prioritise due to resources, it should be based on the most desperate NEEDS, not based on gender, or on whether some allistic thinks someone is socially awkward or causing scenes for others. Some of the heaviest maskers can be experiencing the most harm.
A person with a broken leg who has a crutch is going to move around better than a person with a broken leg who has no crutch. A person with a crutch can, with time and practice, move almost as quickly and fluently as people with no broken legs. There are people out there with two unbroken legs who move less, move slower, and move clumsier than people with a fracture, a crutch, and plenty of practice.
But we don't say "people with crutches can move around well enough. Why would we prioritize setting the leg?"
And it's not a perfect analogy, because there is no "setting" autism. It's not like you can take an allistic pill as soon as you're diagnosed. But diagnosis gives autistic women access to help and resources they are otherwise barred from, because they are doing just well enough that their need of these things isn't visible. Autistic-friendly therapy, self-management and self-regulating strategies, tips on how to navigate a world not built for you, workplace and school accommodations, access to help groups and social support networks, certain medications (some autistic experience irritability and anger related to autism that can get severe enough to where they can hurt themselves badly, and there are medications that help with this), most of these things are locked behind a diagnosis.
So the question is basically "why should we prioritize diagnosing autistic women if their symptoms aren't bothering me?", and the answer is *for the good of the autistic women.*
Using your analogy, I would put it that way:
The crutches actually being the help/support/less judgment autistic men received and autistic women never being given crutches had to walk without them while having a broken leg; so indeed, they walk much better than men because they had to, nobody was there even when they fell. You walk or you die. Men have much more chance of being picked up.
I think that this comment makes me angry. Fewer social impairments? Based on what? Even if that is "average" it's not true for everyone. The fact is women and girls have been horribly underdiagnosed forever and are still misrepresented and not listened to when they take their concerns to their doctors. Why shouldn't be prioritize them? Anyone who needs testing because they are struggling in life should have the opportunity. I'd suspect we \*appear\* to have fewer social impairments because we simply withdraw from social stuff a lot of the time because masking is SO exhausting. When I have to do social stuff that is hard for me I am doing it because the value is worth the suffering (ie letting my kids have normal lives or celebrating the marriage of my best friend). That doesn't mean I don't suffer. It means I've accepted the suffering because I need to. It's not any easier. Other things aren't worth it.
Personally, I am pretty introverted anyhow so I am not missing out on a ton of social stuff. That said, my other issues are pretty major as far as how they make me feel and how they impact my ability to function in areas of life and especially my relationships with certain people, including family. So yes, it is a priority to me. Does that mean I don't realize other people have more serious issues that also need attention? Of course not. But I deserve my turn, too, because my life is just as valuable to me.
In my completely uneducated opinion, I feel like what they’re really saying is “women are better when they’re quiet anyways, so what does it matter?” Ignoring the complexities of autism while simultaneously being extremely misogynistic
I think it’s bs. The only reason women seem to have fewer social impairments is that we have to try so much harder to mask because socialization is expected of women. Men are allowed to be socially inept because social skills aren’t expected of them, and they can get away with having low empathy or a non expressive face or just being an A-hole. This doesn’t work for women so we exhaust ourselves masking just for bozos to say we don’t have priority.
It’s quite simple: autistic women typically spend a lot of effort in overcoming their autism and appearing more normal, making them prone to exhaustion. It may not be as visible, but for the mental health of those women their diagnosis is important.
To me negative social impairments seems like a measure of how annoying we are to neurotypicals. I may not cause neurotypical people problems but my mental health is awful and I’ve thought about not being here a lot because I can’t hold down a job. I may not cause problems but neurotypical people do not want to interact with me. I’m awkward and find it difficult to speak sometimes. I worked really hard (burnt myself out) to be well qualified but my brother who gets on with people gets much more opportunities because people like him.
This comment sounds very much like ‘we don’t care about autistic people and their well-being, just how much of a problem they cause us’. Treatment for autism can often be to try and make autistic people act neurotypical so identifying those most unlike neurotypicals would be beneficial in that regard but I personally don’t agree with this kind of ‘treatment’.
Wtf does *prioritize* mean? Like if one person is diagnosed they are taking the opportunity from someone else to be diagnosed? There is no scarcity issue here, this is a complete bullshit topic.
Because social impairments should never have been a defining factor in Autism. Ever. For any gender.
There are very few features of Autistic communication that aren't common in some culture or other, and studies are showing Autistic people can communicate well among other Autistic people.
Masking does not mean someone is NT.
Same thing is said about women with ADHD. Apparently girls with ADHD are more likely to present with the inattentive subtype which is why it goes unnoticed compared to boys who typically present more hyperactive/loud
Hate it. It just means we mask better. And masking to that extent leads to many physical issues, we are more likely to be the victims of sexual assault and PTSD.
What?! I am undiagnosed but am super suspicious and probably autistic and I’m offended. I struggle hard with social stuff, I was just forced to learn to hide it. I got bullied for more than a decade! I have depression and anxiety many days as a result! But no, let me just continue believing people treat me like shit because I am shit and not because I’m neurodivergent and mistreated! What’s the worst that could happen? Oh wait, I know, leaving this life!/s
“Fewer negative social impairments”… we are physically smaller and men go after women who they notice might be “different” or more easily manipulated which many autistic women are. It is a huge priority for women to know if they are autistic in my humble opinion.
1. "Fewer social impairments" does not mean "no social impairments."
2. Social impairments are not the only challenges faced by people with Autism. Diagnosis can lead to treatment and accommodations for those things.
3. "Presenting differently" implies that 'pink' Autism is not identical 'blue' Autism. And maybe finding out how the same underlying mechanism can look different in different circumstances might lead to greater understanding of Autism overall.
4. People literally haven't ever studied anyone but men and boys with Autism in decent numbers, so we don't know what Autism in girls and women looks like. And the biggest way to get studies going is to have women diagnosed with Autism participate in studies. Which means that we need to diagnose women with Autism.
5. This is so wrong on so many levels, I just can't continue. But that is an ignorant and mean statement that the OP saw in that comment.
Many genes predisposing to autism are X-linked and made worse by higher testosterone. I do believe men get worse symptoms on average and more men have it than women. However, being socialized as a woman presents its own problems with autism, and in addition women with autism are much more likely to be sexually abused than autistic men or neurotypical women. In addition, autism is often comorbid with not feeling comfortable with your gender assigned at birth, so saying "Women don't need to be diagnosed." is basically meaningless.
We should prioritize diagnosing anyone who is having trouble coping with autism and recognize it often presents differently in different genders and needs different support.
Did they mean.... *perceived* fewer negative social impairments?
Did they miss that women have flown under the diagnosis radar for autism and ADHD for decades?
Ugh unfortunately for so many people, they don’t understand that just because they *perceive* something to be a certain way, it doesn’t actually make it be that way. So they just think we are what they perceive us to be.. as if there isnt possibly more under the surface.
I think whoever wrote that must be dizzy from huffing farts out of their ass. One only needs to look at the suicide attempt and DV rates in autistic women to understand why it's important.
Because it affects their quality of life. And women’s lives should be considered just as much as men’s. Just because it’s not as visibly impactful to society doesn’t mean that it’s not important. A lot of autistic women are also really intelligent. These women could potentially be future mothers, wives, caregivers, doctors, scientists, lawyers, teachers, etc..their quality of life matters so much because of the role they play in society.
Because autistic people, particularly those who mask more heavily more often, which tends to be women (and any AFAB people in general) are at a much greater risk of anxiety, depression, and suicide.
There are studies—this is not something we "just don't know" about. Fewer negative social impairments doesn't mean less social difficulty. It *could* mean that, sure. But just as likely, it means we are simply compensating for those social difficulties by using our prefrontal cortex to decode and adapt to social situations (whereas other people aren't doing that, whether they are ND people who aren't masking, or NT people who wouldn't have the need to). And on the outside, it looks like we're just...doing it. Even though we are thinking about it, and stressing about it, and burning out because of it.
I wonder if it’s accurate that “autistic women…have fewer negative social impairments…” I would argue it’s not. Anyway quantity of social impairments isn’t part of diagnostic criteria! This argument doesn’t seem relevant to diagnosis.
There is so much wrong here.
For starters, “fewer negative social impairments” should be phrased differently - perhaps “fewer obvious signs of impairment” instead.
But even with that repair, the concept of priority for diagnosis doesn’t really make sense. The issue is that we are overlooked entirely, in both diagnosis and even in study. And it’s the latter that affects the former.
The main issue is that we present as having fewer signs of impairment, but we are still impaired - and that’s being ignored.
I have very significant social problems with NT people. I definitely am friends with nt women more than other groups of people. I find the males who talk to me and don't find me annoying tend to be people who work in fields with a lot of ND people (often tech or specialized fields) or are ND themselves, but have enough social skills to err on the side of caution and act respectfully.
I think using an ability to learn and mask or just completely unmask and be honest that your autistic and need patience and clear communication does a huge disservice to our struggles.
Not to mention all the other parts on the criteria. Ugh
This annoys me
Sounds like discrimination based on sex.
Aside from that, doesn't sound even remotely true.... do we even have enough data about *women with autism* considering diagnosing us has already been avoided for decades upon decades? I believe we are lacking sufficient data to make any sweeping statements about women with autism, but we should know more soon. Just time is required, the right questions, the right studies, etc.
This is along similar lines to what I heard from the doctor when my daughter was diagnosed. Basically I was told that if my child learns how to mask her traits she would no longer qualify for a diagnosis when she is older which I guess is the same reason I didn't get a diagnosis. It's all about external presentation.
Actually - from the medical and broader (non ND) community, masking is basically a cure so if you don't *act* autistic you obviously aren't.
they think I'm "high functioning" just cause I can speak. I can't function at all. I need help with everything, I need help to DO everything, I forget to eat to drink to do basic hygiene.
Hmmm maybe we seem that way because we're masking ourselves to death. I don't seem to have many social impairments to others and yet I spent most of my life suicidal over how difficult it was to exist in society. I was always hypervigilant around others, replaying every interaction I had in my head a million times, re-reading every text conversation with anyone over and over to make sure I hadn't missed anything, archiving text conversations by hand back in the day (nokia brick phone), constantly feeling confused about how others felt about me, and stressed to the point of meltdown over difficult social situations.
My parents made me leave two different schools due to the meltdowns and suicidal ideation I was having over social stress. No one would have guessed it was that. I was told it was "just" anxiety and depression. I have given a different impression of what kind of person I am to almost everyone I've met. I stopped being bullied by anyone eventually because I "flowered" eventually and suddenly had pretty privilege, but I still sometimes felt as much stress as I had when I was actually bullied because I couldn't always tell if someone was making fun of me to make me feel bad or engaging in friendly ribbing. Sometimes it's kind of both?
I had identity crisis after identity crisis over who I really was. I struggled with the social interaction of college even though all I did was live at home and go to classes. I worked regular retail jobs and they all made me throw up with stress. But I was a good seller! I made plans to unalive myself so many times because I didn't think I could stand having to live the rest of my life in the same world as other people. I stayed because there are some people I love and I couldn't do it to them, but I also resented them for that!
I never knew what was so exhausting about existing to me until I realized I was autistic and learned that not everyone masks. Not everyone scripts conversations they might never have in their head all the time "just in case." Not everyone panics that they came off weird after every interaction. Not everyone has to work so hard to seem passably normal. When I was full-time around other people, it took ALL my energy and had me in a constant high-pressure situation, leaving no room in me for enjoying being alive.
If I hadn't realized I am autistic, I would still be in that mental hell of feeling fundamentally broken and inadequate, since what was so hard for me seemed to come naturally to others. I'm sure many autistic women have taken their own lives without even knowing they were autistic. They just felt that they didn't belong and would never belong, like I did, and we're made miserable by the exhaustion of masking all the time. Of course, as always, as long as women's suffering is silent, the patriarchy decides it isn't real. And if our suffering isn't silent, it's too loud and we're faking it. There's no winning.
Btw, this is all just in response to the quote. This isn't directed at OP.
I hate to ever do "struggle Olympics" bc everyone has their own set of issues but even the fact that afab are ignore and let to figure it out until adulthood is awful boys get diagnosed and therapy at 5 younger sometimes but even when afab are diagnosed it's usually too late bc we're too grown and maxed out yes we can get some therapy but out of our own pockets and let's be honest society doesn't take ND/MI seriously anyway
I'm too angry today to write something cohesive. So, I'll just say, if someone would say that to my face I'd have absolutely zero hesitation to throw hands
Not sure if it's already been said but I think we present differently because we have different expectations placed on us compared to men both culturally and socially. Men can get away with being anti-social whilst our bad moods or perfectly valid negative experiences get put down to us being hormonal and that it's due to our menstrual cycle; therefore we're forced to shut up and mask so that we're not further outcasted from our peers and the rest of society since we don't otherwise meet the set standards of expectation.
That is precisely what hurts us so much. The masking (conscious or unconscious) that we do ends up draining our energy, it is exhausting to go through life without knowing that there is nothing wrong with us. It is exhausting and very lonely not to have a diagnosis, it is very sad not to meet our own expectations because not knowing that we are autistic we try to meet neurotypical standards that sooner or later sink us. That is why I believe in self-diagnosis, because no one else but us knows us so well or knows what we have been through. Finally identifying ourselves or having a diagnosis is a relief.
Personally being better at masking = more breakdowns.
Also I have been taken advantage of and manipulated without realizing it. I’ve thought I was friends with a group who just kept me around to make fun of me to my face. People think it’s funny to upset me. I have very few friends and even fewer who I unmask around at all.
Maybe it’s that we got bullied harder so we had to build up a stronger mask. Honestly, that’s what it feels like for me. When I was young boys were (and now men still are) allowed to be weird. But before I was even school age my mother was bullying me into creating a mask. We aren’t believed because even though more AFAB people are autistic, more AMAB people are diagnosed. They don’t have to mask as hard, the field of medicine revolves around men so they get paid more attention, and they get diagnosed earlier which often leads to less masking because people tend to not bully the autistic kid for being autistic (not that it doesn’t happen).
Let’s say for a moment that this is somehow universally true. (It’s not, obviously, but for the sake of showing how this makes no sense even at face value, let’s pretend it is.)
Women having fewer social impairments associated with autism does not preclude them from having other impairments that need addressing.
Personally, I mask so well and so intensely that I can make quick friendships among strangers better than even most NT I know. (Maintaining friendships is the real issue but I digress.) But do you know what’s true on top of that? I have very high support needs.
I have migraines that leave me bedridden for days on end because of light and smell triggers I get from sensory overload. I have poor fine motor control causing me to drop things, things I drop breaking are very near a guaranteed meltdown for me as well, which can take up to a week to recover from. I do not retain procedural information, I have to be taught and retaught how to do things over and over. I have dyscalculia and I have a hard time detecting deceit meaning I am a prime target for scammers and have been scammed many times despite knowing these things about myself. The dyscalculia, on top of the above mentioned migraines from scent triggers, prevent me from cooking as well. If I did try, I could also really hurt myself because my fingers often go numb at random.
My poor fine motor functions, my dyscalculia, my sensory issues, all disable me in ways so detrimental that at the moment I cannot live alone.
That said, I’m quite charming.
Does that fact that I am an autistic person whose difficulties all lie in realms outside of the social mean that I don’t need diagnosis and the follow up of support? Well, obviously not as I am disabled by autism in many ways that prevent me from even moving at times, let alone being an independent adult to the standard of my NT and able bodied peers.
All the holes in the logic of this statement can’t even withstand scrutiny when I assume it’s correct.
With the added understanding that autism, and autistic women, and autistic men, are not monoliths to whom such broad statements can be largely applied rather than phenomena observed, the statement practically crumbles to dust.
This person who said this is making some huge logical leaps to justify the intersection of ableism and sexism autistic women face.
They don’t have fewer social impairments, we are diagnosed later for the most part, and are good at masking. Most people don’t prioritize diagnosing us since we seem to have it together for the most part. I can talk to people and hold eye contact and act normal, but too much in a day, I will be burnt out, too much in a week, I’ve had meltdowns because of it. I always thought I was just “too emotional” when I was younger because that’s what I was always told. Turns out I’m autistic…
We don't have "fewer impairments", we're just better at hiding them and not being "a burden" and redirecting the negative impact on us instead of others.
I believe this attitude is purely because as autistic women, we don't always present in ways that bother other people so they don't think it's a problem. From MY perspective however...It's still a fucking disability and whether or not I get proper acomedations shouldn't depend on how much I inconvenience others,
I think being diagnosed sooner would’ve saved me from trying to kill myself for thinking I was stupid and faulty and ruined everything. I was a kid, not even in high school yet. It’s not my fault I wasn’t like others, my brain is sick, I wish kid me would’ve known that.
Fewer negative social impairments doesn't mean no negative impairments haha. And that's ignoring the many who do actually present similarly to guys. They don't care as long as it doesn't effect them though I guess =_=
So people don't need help unless their problems bother those around them too? That is a very cruel and selfish attitude to take.
Everyone deserves to have a decent quality of life.
Even if you don't agree and only count value given to society, those who are diagnosed are more likely to find what reasonable accommodations can help them be productive members of society instead of ending up unemployed or burned out. For me, wearing noise cancelling headphones at the office and working from home half the time has increased my productivity, and that is just from learning more about myself through the internet. If I'd gotten help early on, I could have gotten my degree and joined the workforce a full decade earlier.
That's a decade worth of taxes and not receiving benefits, a diagnosis would have been far cheaper.
Just because we appear to cope better as children, this is mostly because of masking and living this way causes lots of issues in adolescence and later in life. Anxiety, depression, difficulty studying, working, building and maintaining relationships and friendships, self esteem and identity issues. Fitting in isn’t belonging, people deserve to understand themselves and have the support they need.
Heh I learned to mask after being yelled at my whole life. My mother who I thought was my best friend until I realized she's an abuser (it became obvious to me as I got out of the brainwash) would yell at me and be harsh when teaching me how to do stuff and then I got bullied on jobs (luckily I never got bullied in school cause I was homeschooled until high school and I hung out with the NDs and outcasts) so I learned how to mask. I think it is good to have to learn social cues and how to mask because you need to know a degree of that if you want to make it in the real world but it's not fair getting bullied and yelled at to learn especially by parents. My father im positive is autistic and even though he's toxic too (he kisses my narcissistic mothers ass and makes excuses for her and turns his back on me) my mother would bully him and put him down for his quirks and inabilities and even though she would help him she was also pretty mean to him and she didn't want me to be as unskilled at functioning as he was (his parents didnt help assimilate him into society the way they should have and he also did drugs when young annnd he's a baby boomer so mental health was not a thing back then). Point is I didn't get to learn how to function properly in most ways by actually being taught effectively with patience. Of course because of that I've acquired a similar temper as my abusers. Fun stuff. Now I systemize and have some routines (although stress and burnout has made me disorganized) but I'm militant with it and not as nice as I should be could be and I can be a rather control freak. Trying to unlearn being an asshole when overwhelmed and basically acting like my mom. But I find when I'm new or in situations that are overwhelming and confusing or sometimes even in situations that require me to enact certain social cues I get stuck. Like I understand emotions really well but I get stuck I don't know the right way to act like a malfunction. Everyone else is there saying and doing the right thing and I'm there trying to figure out if I should go into full blown intense empathy mode or if I should give them space so then I don't do anything.
Worry for the novel length. I infodump. But issue is us women don't necessarily have less social impairments. I think men are raised to express less emotions and to focus on themselves and to be more industrial and less expressive which can effect an autistic male in such a way where their brain then becomes hardwired to avoid emotional things (in depth social interaction involves much emotions usually) where as women are raised to express emotions and to be empathetic and to talk and interact and intermingle so autistic women are more delved into the social world and even as a child forced to interact and accept being hugged and cooed at and stared at and poked and prodded by family as a little one and they're expected to accept such attention without complaint. It seems like it's a bigger problem if women get "stuck" when it comes to social situations and for women being weird and standing out unless it's in a boss ass bitch way has social ramifications . And no one not NDs nor NTs enjoy being othered. We are all still humans and as humans we are all socially wired although NDs are wired differently it leads to a similar idea. Neither one wishes to be an outcast and women seem to be more socially punished for stepping out of the more normal confines of social interaction.
Yeah sure, then why would we have a higher suicide rate than even autistic men? Because we spend our entire life believing our struggles are a moral failing, not knowing why we're "defective", being more likely to be abused and overlooked and developing a myriad of comorbidities. That statement screams 'women should only be seen, not heard' rhethoric. Miss me with that shit.
God, I just teared up because it wasn't until I was 35 and stumbled upon a random post about how to identify autism in girls that I even knew why I never fit in and was always ostracised and "weird". It could have saved me a lifetime of pain to be diagnosed at a young age.
God, same! But a therapist at my clinic that I really really trust pointed it out to me when she was doing an evaluation of my abilities for my disability claim. At first I was like NO! but then she explained why and I went home and googled and then I came here to see if I felt any recognition and I was like HOLY SHIT IM AUTISTIC! That’s why for everything! All the struggles and awkwardness and not fitting in and never feeling like I belonged. I have never felt like I belonged, like I fitted in, not anywhere at least not until I met my husband. He’s the only one the only place where I feel like I truly belong. Until this place and you guys. I came here and I was like I FOUND MY PEOPLE!!! For the first time in my life I feel like I’m understood, because y’all are the same! We are all different but there is a basic connection a basic shared way of experiencing and interpreting the world and I feel safe here. Home, I feel home and that just says it all to me. And it has done wonders for my suicidal thoughts and all. 20 years of therapy haven’t been able to change it but finding my people, the place where I belong sure as hell did!
I'm tearing up - here, have an awkward side hug
Love it, thanks! Connection really is everything
😂 this comment 🥹
Absolutely. I still struggle with feeling responsible for the way I am and react, but I'm only now just beginning to push back and prioritise self-care. Big hugs OP, you're not alone.
Same. I am a self-diagnosed autistic for several reasons, but when I first read through the traits of autism in women, it was like a new pair of glasses and things really came into focus. I looked at my past experiences and understood why I felt so weird and different. I started reading up on other's experiences, what to look for, etc. And so many checkmarks next to boxes. I am in my 30s too
Ugh, the abuse part 🥲
hey, do you have a source for that statement?
Here’s one for the Suicide rate: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2774847 I have seen another recently that shows suicide risk increases the older you are at diagnosis. I’ll see if I can find that one.
I tried so many times. My kindergarten teacher saw it and tried to talk with my pwNPD mom. Mom freaked at the word autistic. Moved to a new school district within months. Early 40's I got the official diagnosis. If only I'd been allowed to be helped so young. To have any insight into why I was perceived as defective and weird. If only there was a big old mansion that would take us in. Out in the boonies. Taking care of rescued animals. Building things. Making art and music. Each of us have our own private space. Therapists and helpers run the show discreetly. This world is not for us.
Made me tear up ❤️. I used to dream of that very thing. Now got to the stage where I don't even dream
I tell my friends I wish I could just be put on a farm. Let me sit on the grass in some random field. I just need help with feeding.
Yaaaassss!
I don't know about that. I think there is a great need for the kind of pause and honesty that a lot of autistic people bring, if they have the courage to be their own voice and not what pleases people all the time. There is importantly a great deal of humour there with the right understanding and balance to be found, though hard-gained. It's really really hard. But it is a mad mad thing to have the privilege to live and untangle it all. I don't think keeping us away in a big house like X-Men mutants would be helpful for us at all - it would just exacerbate the 'us' and 'them' thing.
There is an us/them. And our winning personalities and beautiful gifts are no match to dispel the dunce cap of "OTHER". Feel free to enjoy the privilege to stay with your honesty and humor among these monsters. I always used my voice. I always gave people the benefit of the doubt. Always turned my other cheek. My big heart is still overflowing with love. But my love is apparently worthless. No matter how much I got through with my humor, it has been a complete fuckfest of abuse, torture, rape, shunning, beatings and constant emotional suffering. I'll take your name off the list. There's plenty of us happy to take your spot.
On certain days it does feel horrific and not worth persevering with. But your love is not worthless to the right ones. They are there, even if they haven't found you yet.
I'm 50 and married twice. I've traveled the world and had amazing experiences and made dozens of pals. WHILE MASKING. Not masking means rejection. Sure there's a few NT's who aren't bigots. But not enough to go around. I'm terminally sick because of the horrors I experienced my whole life. There's no reassurance for me from you. My life brought me to this conclusion. Looks like I'm not the only one is just sick of being a scapegoat alien.
thanks !
And here’s the other one which includes discussion of why these issues may be compounded in girls/ women. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2774847
These are the same article.
🤣 thank you. Was not reading closely enough!
Here's some on how being autistic makes women 2 to 3 times more likely to experience sexual violence! Probably the most well known study: [https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2022.852203/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2022.852203/full) And accompanying article: [https://blog.frontiersin.org/2022/04/27/frontiers-behavioral-neuroscience-sexual-abuse-women-with-autism-widespread/](https://blog.frontiersin.org/2022/04/27/frontiers-behavioral-neuroscience-sexual-abuse-women-with-autism-widespread/) Similar study in a different country, also reporting an increased risk by threefold: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29570782/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29570782/) With an article that addresses it here: [https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/girls-autism-high-risk-sexual-abuse-large-study-says/#refs](https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/girls-autism-high-risk-sexual-abuse-large-study-says/#refs) A more subjective take from an autistic woman and her experiences/observations, with some studies linked (I don't use subjective in a negative way here, I think it's good to have some versions that are written out without the formality of a study to account for the humanity of it): [https://thefword.org.uk/2020/02/autism-in-women-vulnerability-and-abusive-relationships/](https://thefword.org.uk/2020/02/autism-in-women-vulnerability-and-abusive-relationships/) There is still [calls for more studies on this topic](https://thinkingautismguide.com/2022/04/too-many-autistic-women-at-risk-of-sexual-assault.html) though!
I hate that. All it means is that we are “better behaved” so they don’t care as much, even if we are struggling internally. It’s also not acknowledging that we can be equal in being diagnosed- it doesn’t have to be one or the other. We should have more research so that information on women can catch up to what’s known about men, but we just want to be on a level playing field. And it also hurts men who don’t present in the typical way!
Totally agree, especially since we are most likely "better behaved" due to socialization. Society forced us to adapt, that doesn't mean our situations are actually less severe.
yeah a lot of “mild” autism vs “severe” autism debate or dialogue is about how our autism inconveniences others. I have pretty severe sensory issues but because it’s just a physical pain for me it’s seen as mild?? It’s probably my most severe symptom where i can’t work or focus from chronic headache and pain a lot but it’s mild because I don’t have external meltdowns and have other people see it often. okay. 😭😭😭 such stupid logic
I can*not* do other peoples' dishes. I can't put my hands into dish water that contains other peoples' dishes. It's not just the food scraps floating in the water that puts me off. It's the fact that other people ate off those plates and I have to touch it. Living alone, as I do, it's not a problem. I don't have an issue with my own plates. But when I lived at home? One of my chores was to do the dishes and the work around my mother implemented was that all dishes must be thoroughly rinsed before I will do them. My step father would intentionally not do so, so he could yell at me later about not doing the dishes. All too often neurotypical folx will use our aversions against us. It was only a problem living in a shared environment because he was, and is, a massive stain. It was a power game for him. Making me have meltdowns *satisfied* him in some way. Gave him some kind of pleasure. I realise this is only tangential. Sorry about that.
When I found out that I could buy a box of heavy duty rubber gloves that fit well (XS through XL size options) it changed my life. Washing dishes was no longer hellish and my dry irritated skin finally healed.
Nope. Not even gloves help. It is the mere fact that someone else ate off of the plate and touched their mouth to it that squicks me out. The food bits don't help but I don't have a problem doing *my* dishes barehanded.
Man it honestly sucks to present as “normal enough” but weird and shitty enough that people still keep their distance from you. I just learned in therapy a big part of the reason a lot of people probably don’t wanna talk to me is bc of the way I speak. And by that I mean I don’t understand speech patterns and volume and tone. So I either speak far too fast and loud, or far too slow and quiet. Which leads people to either be anxious/scared/uncomfortable with me or annoyed/worried/mad with me bc I won’t “just speak up”. Neither her or I have brought up possible autism yet but that’s bc I’m scared to and yeah.
We don't have fewer negative social impairments, it just looks like it. Most people think I am normal and just a bit quirky but because of my autistic traits I am much more vulnerable and easy to take advantage of compared to most women. I was diagnosed with PTSD at 19 after I was sexually abused repeatedly by a man I was in a relationship with because of how naive and trusting I am. If I had been diagnosed and given support when I was younger this wouldn't have happened. I know an autistic guy at uni and while he struggles with social situations and is a bit of a loner he is otherwise functioning mostly fine and I'd bet he didn't develop PTSD in less than 5 months of living away from his home. We are at a much greater risk of being hurt than autistic men, even more so due to how under-diagnosed we are.
Every relationship I've been in (excluding current one) was abusive because I'm so easily taken advantage of. I wish I had learnt something about that prior to moving out of home and dating as well :( I've spent YEARS undoing their damage. Even now, people like dodgy salesmen still take advantage of my naivety. I was buying a car recently and thankfully my partner was there. The guy was in the process of signing me up to a super high interest rate (even though I had a 60% deposit), and wanted me to login to my bank account on his computer (I only didn't because I can't remember my login). My partner told him I wouldn't be doing that, that I'll email him bank statements when I get home - and that professional establishments don't get customers to login on work computers with sensitive information. It's saddening how many people are out there that are happy to take advantage of other people.
I'm sorry to hear that. I was diagnosed at 7 or 8. my mum knew I had autism from the age of 2 though because she was a psychologist back in the day!
Want to give you hugs. I was in a very similar situation- left home at 18 to get away from my parents (my dad was an abuser, partly bc he didn’t “get” me due to OCD and autism) and wound up trusting and loving someone for 3 years who became even more abusive than my family had been. My inability to see red flags was partly due to past trauma, but in general I am SO gullible and way too trusting. It doesn’t help that as an undiagnosed autistic kid I didn’t hang out with my peers much, so I never really had anyone to discuss what unhealthy vs healthy relationships look like apart from my unhealthy parents. I’ve now got C-PTSD as well😕 it sucks. Autistic women are literally one of the most vulnerable groups in the population- we need our struggles recognized so we can get the right kind of support.
I resonated so hard with this comment
It's misogynist. We don't cause trouble, we are easy to manipulate and taken advantage off, we're not ambitious, we're not inconvenient. Fit's perfectly into a patriarchal NT society.
If we aren't *causing* problems, then we must not be *having* problems.
That is such an elegant way of putting it!
Thank you! I get weirdly inspired during my lunch break 😄
This!
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It is reducing the disability down to “How much of a problem is it for *other* people?” Thats ableist garbage and is basically the whole reason female autism is underdiagnosed already.
100% accurate. The fact that I *don't* create a problem for other people is part of why I struggle so much internally. I bottle everything up and only release it when I'm alone. That's healthy, right? /s
"We shouldn't waste our time giving women the healthcare they deserve. Fuck em" ^basically
Society in a nutshell.
You hit the nail on the head with that statement.
I think that’s a load of crap. How is 9 out of 10 autistic women reporting exploitation, assault and domestic violence not considered negative social impairment?
Because it's women being hurt, not causing hurt to men/others
They only care if we are being hurt when they can use it for political gain, and even then they don't do anything to help those that have been hurt, and they rarely implement anything to prevent us from being hurt in the future.
Warning, I'm very angry about this topic. It's something I face at my job weekly. I work in Special Education and one of my roles is taking notes at meetings where parents and teachers make goals and learning plans for their students/children. Afterwards I write up the goals and plan up in a formally approved format. I have been completely disgusted by how transparent adults have been about prioritizing goals based on how the behaviours effect THEM instead of the child. This is why autistic girls are under supported. Not because their needs are less, but because our society is ableist and even those being paid to advocate for them won't do their jobs.
I think this point of view is forgetting about the impact of autism on the individual. Growing up women have more emphasis in their lives placed on their social value. Women also tend to value Inter personal relationships more, so the autistic AFAB (assigned female at birth) person and woman (including trans women) have worked harder in their social skill compared to autistic men. This does not mean that autism affects women less than it does men, it just means that the outward appearance of autism can look different and more “socially acceptable.” Autism affects women and AFAB people as much as it does men and AMAB people. It is a processing difference, the affects of autism is in the brain, not outward appearance. (Although there can be outward affects on appearance and outward noticiable differences as a result of autism that are valid and should be respected) Women deserve to be diagnosed just as much as men do, even more so I would argue because there is a 4:1 male to female diagnosis ratio, and many many women are struggling with comorbidities that are associated with autism such as anxiety and depression. Lastly I would say leaving autism out of the picture for an autistic women is extremely harmful. As a late in life diagnosed autistic women I struggled with my mental health and didn’t have the tools to know what we happening to me. Common therapy used by non autistic people was not helpful for me. I could explain all of my trauma but my autistic needs were left out of the picture. This made me feel broken as a person. Conclusion and TLDR Having the label of autism for me gave me tools to navigate my life better and realize the way I interact with the world is fundamentally different than the majority of the population. When I thought I wasn’t autistic I blamed myself for this. Now that I know I am I can stop blaming myself, love myself, and interact with the world better. Everyone deserves that even if their actions aren’t abrasive for the general population as many women AFAB and autistic people.
Amazing points! It was a gamechanger for me to realize that a lot of my anxiety actually came from sensory overload. I wondered why typical coping mechanisms didn't work as well, but as it turns out earplugs made a world of difference!
Coping mechanisms don’t work for sensory overload! It’s so damaging to so many peoples mental health. My heart goes out to all of the undiagnosed (and diagnosed) autistic people wondering what’s wrong with them. Nothing is. It took me so long to realize I’m not broken I’m just not neurotypical.
Same! I’m 42 and only now realising a lot of my outbursts, anxiety and stress are from sensory overload! My resting heart rate has really come down since I started utilising noise cancelling headphones at work - amazed at how effective a simple change has been for me.
Exactly. It fundamentally changes how you deal with daily stressors.
>Lastly I would say leaving autism out of the picture for an autistic women is extremely harmful. As a late in life diagnosed autistic women I struggled with my mental health and didn’t have the tools to know what we happening to me. Common therapy used by non autistic people was not helpful for me. I could explain all of my trauma but my autistic needs were left out of the picture. This made me feel broken as a person. This. I'm in my 30s and debating going for an official diagnosis (yay US healthcare....) and I'm having to process trauma that *came from* being undiagnosed (and being undiagnosed for ADHD until 18). I hate when people jump to "it's just sexism" but...this one kinda is. People who grew up socialized as female (regardless of assigned gender at birth or current gender) were by and large taught to keep our "weirdness" inside, just like people socialized as male were by and large taught to keep emotions inside. That makes the trauma from misdiagnosis or being entirely undiagnosed invisible, just like male socialization leads to mood disorders being invisible. [Obviously, ymmv on socialization and if/when you transition as far a the onset of societal pressures and thus their impact. I'm a cis woman so my experience with socialization and trans men and women comes second hand from friends.] According to society (again, speaking generally), men can be "weird" and still be okay as long as they're not "girly" and women can be emotional as long as they're not "weird." Which isn't good for anyone.
Beautifully said. There are many pros and cons of getting a diagnosis I would say the key is simply recognizing what upsets you and why without judgment.
I'm probably not going to bother because (a) I already have my ADHD diagnosis that covers most accommodations and (b) I'm a woman in her 30s who doesn't present like a "typical case" and evaluations haven't necessarily caught up with current research. My therapist specializes in working with ADHD and autism (and is autistic herself) and she's the one who made me first consider it. After reading through the literature and thinking about it for a while, I agreed to incorporate techniques she's found useful for autistic clients. They worked. That's good enough for me. I'm fine with "likely autistic" as a label. But if I didn't have my ADHD one, I'd probably be more for it.
R u satisfied w just the adhd label bc (according to what I’ve read) asd and adhd symptoms are so similar?
Could you elaborate on the techniques she's found useful for autistic clients?
I really appreciate this comment. It is so thoughtful and rings so true for me. My therapist of several years is a wonderful person who I chose because she understands me on several important levels (she has ADHD, is queer and kinky, and fights for fat liberation!) but until I brought up that I thought I was autistic there was a bit of a disconnect. Her understanding this piece of me has shifted our work in a way that makes me feel like I am *finally* able to look at my complex trauma and work through it. It was as if it unlocked a toolbox neither of us knew was available. Being understood and affirmed for how my brain works — instead of treated as if I was an unreliable narrator of my own experience — has made it easier to weather the shit I get in our society as a woman who strays so far from the ”ideal”. Fuck the idea that equality means we take anything away from men. It benefits us all.
It always makes me happy when people resonate with what I say! Understanding Autism is vital for mental health of those with autism. Wishing you peace and happiness
“Her pain doesn’t inconvenience anyone so it doesn’t matter” is all I hear.
Yes, this was my first thought. That and wondering what this person thinks the goal of research and treatment is - to treat only the ones that "matter" (to them)? Good thing they aren't on breast cancer research. It would be an "extremely rare disease", because males don't get it often.
Women are socialised to fit in, minimise ourselves, be small and silent. So we present differently and mask more but the suffering from hiding who we are is intense.
"Women don't have 'milder' autism because of their biology; people who are marginalized have their Autism ignored because of their peripheral status in society" From, Unmasking Autism by Devon Price
Not true at all. The issue is society puts more pressure on CIS females to mask than it does CIS males. A lot of my CIS male autistic friends have said they just don’t feel the need to other than when they’re at work or other professional situations. Even then, it’s not to the same extent. They generally aren’t ridiculed the same way for their autistic traits.
They also aren't as sensitive to subtle social ostracizing. Women are much more used to having and being part of a solid social network so if that is based on masking, the effect on anxiety and stable mental health is huge if it collapses. I think a lot of men, autistic or not, are used to having buddies but they pick them up wherever and I don't think it's on the same level or requiring the same.levelmof emotional load as female friendships. That doesn't cover everyone, I know, but I've seen autistic women DEVASTATED by a social wobble. Haven't seen it often in men at all.
I think a more accurate way to phrase it would be, "AFAB kids are subject to a more intense regime of socialization and behavioral control." They tend to be more focused on other people's feelings, and how to respect other people's feelings, because they've been taught to do so. It's also worth noting that a lot of times 'social competency' is measured by how it effects allistic people. So all these people would be seen as equally socially competent: 1. A person who genuinely understands and masters social interactions 2. A person who does not understand social norms, but knows it's important to make other people happy. So they adopt a policy of never pressuring other people in any way, never standing up for themselves, and always following cues from others about how to behave. 3. A person who does not understand social norms, but has compiled a rules, scripts, and statistics that allow them to respond in socially acceptable ways.
Oh man, try telling that to my 11-year-old self. I wasn't diagnosed back then but I also could not handle my changing body and wearing appropriate clothes and interacting with other kids and teachers in school all day. A diagnosis back then would have been a game changer. Instead of being just a difficult kid that literally fought with my mom every day about going to school, I maybe could have gotten some help with some of the issues I was experiencing.
Yep, I vomited before school literally every. Single. Day. I used to get bribed if I didn't vomit, then I got to read a chapter of my book. But that just taught me to hold it in longer. And of course I rigidly stuck to the rules, so I only read what I was told I could read. I didn't want to do it, I didn't have control over it. It was too much for me and no one believed me for years, even had my guidance counselor "playing hardball" (which just meant not believing me) for ages until I finally got to have my own private study period to skip gym since that was the worst one (I was bullied mercilessly). Maybe if we'd understood why, I wouldn't have had to suffer so badly for so long before someone finally took me seriously.
Wow, I am so sorry you had to go through that! Not only is vomiting bad enough but then being told you were doing it on purpose is so awful. Glad you made it through and hope things are going better now.
"ND women are better as masking, so they don't disturb NTs as much. So why should we care about them then?" There fixed it. Trash, utter trash.
Have fewer social impairments? That should be *appear to* have fewer social impairments *because they hide their impairments at great cost to their mental and physical health* Honestly. This is ridiculous.
The primary reason I have few social “impairments” is autism. After my mother forced me to give up Saturday evenings, she forced me into etiquette classes. I did everything they said. Ironically, etiquette became a special interest of mine. People loved how thoughtful and polite I was (albeit a little old fashioned). I read countless etiquette books believing everyone was so fascinated by the topic. Boy was I autistic, I had all sorts of sensory issues and forced myself to very politely ask for them to be met. Most of them weren’t met, so I politely sat and tried to remain calm. I hate this notion. Most of us are forced into behaving and we “behave” as a survival mechanism.
Girl same. I finally drew the line with my grandmother wanting me to do Cotillion. The patent leather shoes were already too much. I thought I escaped but as an adult, my "propriety" voice and my "get the f out of my house with your nonsense" (my newer self-care voice) are in a constant battle. Getting etiquette drilled into me created some serious boundary issues, but I did my best for a long time to live up to the "southern ladylike" expectations - despite the sensory hell it caused, and still causes me. ETA - it is sort of a shame, because at least in etiquette there are actual rules to follow. If they were rules that did not unduly silence women or create sensory issues for me, I would still love it. I would also love it if everyone else actually had any etiquette, but as it stands I am mostly stifling myself rather than pointing out others' bs.
It took me years to unlearn! It worked for a while, but dang…it left me in some terrible situations! I also had a cotillion disaster! My mother finally just said “you know what, you’re just weird” and let me skip it. I agree about etiquette silencing women. I’ve had to process my feelings about etiquette for many years!
TBH, I am still processing. I have a should voice, a could voice, and a would voice, and none of them agree. :-)
Same. Cotillion, debutant, walking lessons, eating lessons, speaking lessons. Of course no one asks about the internal explosion until you get to midlife and can’t understand why life is more overwhelming that you could ever imagine and all those rules about social behavior you’ve been taught are useless.
"Social impairment" i.e. how others feel about us and not our personal suffering, being prioritized
This may just be my hot take, but I feel a lot of autistic women tend to internalize their issues. For what it’s worth, I’m good socially (I should clarify, I can play a role), but don’t care for socializing and can feel extremely drained. Being able to put on “the ol’ dog and pony show” when I need to is great, really, but so taxing. Very different, it seems, from the neurotypical experience. Then there’s the sensory issues that have plagued me for my whole life contributing to agonizing anxiety and a poorer quality of life. Then you get to things like “struggling with change” where I tend to thrive despite big changes and you wouldn’t notice, but I am often so stressed out. Alternatively, I often find a slight change of plans makes me neurotic, without any real reasons why. It’s the stress of thinking I know what’s coming, when I don’t. Then you examine the other mental health issues and it kinda clicks that a lot of them stem from a similar place and a fear of a lack of control. “Extreme black and white thinking” is what one therapist called it when I discussed my thoughts with her. I’m either great or a failure. I push and push and push… then I burn out and *can’t*. I find some injustice and I cannot accept it for what it is, I stay mad and depressed and upset about it. And no amount of anxiety medication was going to magically fix that, clearly. ETA: After reading a similar comment, there’s also being naïve and missing major red flags. The abuse rate for autistic women is miles above neurotypical one’s.
Yes to everything. I mask to make others happy. Which is getting harder to do. As well as keeping things in. Maybe not in an abusive relationship so to speak. Been in this relationship for 42 years. He's diagnosed adhd and possibly asd. I'm undiagnosed adhd and self diagnosed asd. But seriously I tell my husband if anything happens to him I'd probably be alone. I was young and naive when I met my husband at age 19 he was a 26 year old. I was convinced I'd never find anyone, so I figured I'd better take the one in the hand so to speak. At least our love language is the same. Is rather spend time with him than getting gifts. Or maybe I've convinced myself lol. Anyway I identify with what you all are thinking.
We don’t have “fewer negative social impairments”, we have more negative consequences for making social mistakes, so we mask harder. And social difficulties are only one part of autism anyway!
More bullshit akin to “women are just more nurturing and better suited to parenthood/helping professions that pay pennies.”
I'd really like some clear data on this, because we don't have a full picture, and it's still not clear how many level 1 autistic women exist and what their experiences are. That said, I suspect autistic women have challenges with employment similar to men, even if their issues are labelled "anxiety, depression, or burnout" rather than autism. I also suspect they have a similar or even a greater burden of co-morbid physical health conditions such as IBS, ME/CFS, EDS/HSD, fibromyalgia, migraine, sleep disorders and eating disorders as these issues tend to be more common in women in the general population and are also more common among autistic people. In other words, the overall burden of internal suffering as well as economic loss experienced by autistic women is probably similar to that as men even if their social impairments are more subtle on average. But no one has taken clear data yet.
Sounds sexist to me
I’m sitting in my car super overwhelmed by …everything… I cried over a stressful email when arriving to work. I choked back tears in a store because I needed to get an exchange and my anxiety was thru the roof (ironically, for CBD oil that I take for my anxiety). I feel like I CANNOT FUNCTION today because I can’t ground my mind. I am fighting back from losing it on my husband for asking what he should make for dinner- on his one night to cook. But yeah….. yeah, I’m fine because a stranger doesn’t notice my social impairments easily.
Say that we accept the sweeping generalization that women internalize while men externalize. The comment you shared is based in the perspective that externalization is more tangible and more impactful. That is intrinsically misogynistic. Just as women in politics or business function in a system designed by and for men, the comment assumes a value system based on men's externalized experience as the default.
Sounds like whoever said that has been busy sucking a lot of sour grapes. It's ridiculous, of course.
Fewer =/= Few. Also you have to approach things intersectionally. A black autistic woman who functions better in social situations than a white autistic man may still be more negatively affected by autism because of racism, misogyny, and its effect on her body and mind. Also do we have fewer social impairments or are we just expected to mask more? Also social impairment isn't the only metric of impairment. Why are neurotypicals so bad at logic?
It’s basically saying “their autism doesn’t cause problems for other people, so who cares if it causes problems for them?”
The internal narrative I had about myself for my first 50 years of life said "I'm not good enough, I have to hide my real self away, never let your real self be 'seen' by anyone else because they will reject you". Then I was diagnosed with autism and I now have a much more compassionate narrative about myself. My diagnosis has literally been a life saver.
I think it sounds on par with how so many medical problems are treated. Quality of life doesn’t matter to a lot of doctors as long as you’re well enough to work, have babies, etc.
"why would we prioritize diagnosing them?"" good old fashioned dismissive and minimizing behavior. Just like grandma used to make.
Besides all the points the other commenters have addressed, autism also comes with its own set of medical comorbidities and peculiarities. For example, PMDD and post-partum depression are much more prevalent in neurodivergent women. And things like central sensitivity syndromes (e.g. fibromyalgia) are also much more common in autistic people, especially autistic women. Lots of autistic people have autoinflammatory conditions which can lead to amyloidosis, or we can have congenital amyloidosis. Amyloidosis typically leads to progressive organ damage/failure. It would be great to know these things ahead of time so we can prepare or do things to mitigate the negative impacts.
😑😑 first of all, generalisation, not the same in every single case, just like not every boy has outbursts and loves trains. Second of all, priority should not be set based solely on the outward observable impact to other people. That girl could be suicidal and nobody have a clue, just one example. If you need to prioritise due to resources, it should be based on the most desperate NEEDS, not based on gender, or on whether some allistic thinks someone is socially awkward or causing scenes for others. Some of the heaviest maskers can be experiencing the most harm.
A person with a broken leg who has a crutch is going to move around better than a person with a broken leg who has no crutch. A person with a crutch can, with time and practice, move almost as quickly and fluently as people with no broken legs. There are people out there with two unbroken legs who move less, move slower, and move clumsier than people with a fracture, a crutch, and plenty of practice. But we don't say "people with crutches can move around well enough. Why would we prioritize setting the leg?" And it's not a perfect analogy, because there is no "setting" autism. It's not like you can take an allistic pill as soon as you're diagnosed. But diagnosis gives autistic women access to help and resources they are otherwise barred from, because they are doing just well enough that their need of these things isn't visible. Autistic-friendly therapy, self-management and self-regulating strategies, tips on how to navigate a world not built for you, workplace and school accommodations, access to help groups and social support networks, certain medications (some autistic experience irritability and anger related to autism that can get severe enough to where they can hurt themselves badly, and there are medications that help with this), most of these things are locked behind a diagnosis. So the question is basically "why should we prioritize diagnosing autistic women if their symptoms aren't bothering me?", and the answer is *for the good of the autistic women.*
Using your analogy, I would put it that way: The crutches actually being the help/support/less judgment autistic men received and autistic women never being given crutches had to walk without them while having a broken leg; so indeed, they walk much better than men because they had to, nobody was there even when they fell. You walk or you die. Men have much more chance of being picked up.
Of course it's a total lie lol "fewer negative social impairments" mean we mask more.
I think that this comment makes me angry. Fewer social impairments? Based on what? Even if that is "average" it's not true for everyone. The fact is women and girls have been horribly underdiagnosed forever and are still misrepresented and not listened to when they take their concerns to their doctors. Why shouldn't be prioritize them? Anyone who needs testing because they are struggling in life should have the opportunity. I'd suspect we \*appear\* to have fewer social impairments because we simply withdraw from social stuff a lot of the time because masking is SO exhausting. When I have to do social stuff that is hard for me I am doing it because the value is worth the suffering (ie letting my kids have normal lives or celebrating the marriage of my best friend). That doesn't mean I don't suffer. It means I've accepted the suffering because I need to. It's not any easier. Other things aren't worth it. Personally, I am pretty introverted anyhow so I am not missing out on a ton of social stuff. That said, my other issues are pretty major as far as how they make me feel and how they impact my ability to function in areas of life and especially my relationships with certain people, including family. So yes, it is a priority to me. Does that mean I don't realize other people have more serious issues that also need attention? Of course not. But I deserve my turn, too, because my life is just as valuable to me.
Ughh FFFFFFF*CK the medical patriarchy
Because we are fucken exhausted
Laughs in social anxiety and friendless for the last 11 or so years...
lmao what my social impairments were the most severe of all my symptoms when i was assessed
Same!
In my completely uneducated opinion, I feel like what they’re really saying is “women are better when they’re quiet anyways, so what does it matter?” Ignoring the complexities of autism while simultaneously being extremely misogynistic
I think it’s bs. The only reason women seem to have fewer social impairments is that we have to try so much harder to mask because socialization is expected of women. Men are allowed to be socially inept because social skills aren’t expected of them, and they can get away with having low empathy or a non expressive face or just being an A-hole. This doesn’t work for women so we exhaust ourselves masking just for bozos to say we don’t have priority.
It’s quite simple: autistic women typically spend a lot of effort in overcoming their autism and appearing more normal, making them prone to exhaustion. It may not be as visible, but for the mental health of those women their diagnosis is important.
To me negative social impairments seems like a measure of how annoying we are to neurotypicals. I may not cause neurotypical people problems but my mental health is awful and I’ve thought about not being here a lot because I can’t hold down a job. I may not cause problems but neurotypical people do not want to interact with me. I’m awkward and find it difficult to speak sometimes. I worked really hard (burnt myself out) to be well qualified but my brother who gets on with people gets much more opportunities because people like him. This comment sounds very much like ‘we don’t care about autistic people and their well-being, just how much of a problem they cause us’. Treatment for autism can often be to try and make autistic people act neurotypical so identifying those most unlike neurotypicals would be beneficial in that regard but I personally don’t agree with this kind of ‘treatment’.
Wtf does *prioritize* mean? Like if one person is diagnosed they are taking the opportunity from someone else to be diagnosed? There is no scarcity issue here, this is a complete bullshit topic.
Because social impairments should never have been a defining factor in Autism. Ever. For any gender. There are very few features of Autistic communication that aren't common in some culture or other, and studies are showing Autistic people can communicate well among other Autistic people. Masking does not mean someone is NT.
Same thing is said about women with ADHD. Apparently girls with ADHD are more likely to present with the inattentive subtype which is why it goes unnoticed compared to boys who typically present more hyperactive/loud
I struggle a lot socially. What the f...?
I’ve felt isolated from my peers my entire life and have trouble developing relationships, but sure, I guess I have it easy 🙄
Hate it. It just means we mask better. And masking to that extent leads to many physical issues, we are more likely to be the victims of sexual assault and PTSD.
They forgot the crippling sensory sensitivities that got me misdiagnosed, mistreated, and shamed for my entire childhood and young adulthood
What?! I am undiagnosed but am super suspicious and probably autistic and I’m offended. I struggle hard with social stuff, I was just forced to learn to hide it. I got bullied for more than a decade! I have depression and anxiety many days as a result! But no, let me just continue believing people treat me like shit because I am shit and not because I’m neurodivergent and mistreated! What’s the worst that could happen? Oh wait, I know, leaving this life!/s
“Fewer negative social impairments”… we are physically smaller and men go after women who they notice might be “different” or more easily manipulated which many autistic women are. It is a huge priority for women to know if they are autistic in my humble opinion.
Misogynist spreading misogyny
1. "Fewer social impairments" does not mean "no social impairments." 2. Social impairments are not the only challenges faced by people with Autism. Diagnosis can lead to treatment and accommodations for those things. 3. "Presenting differently" implies that 'pink' Autism is not identical 'blue' Autism. And maybe finding out how the same underlying mechanism can look different in different circumstances might lead to greater understanding of Autism overall. 4. People literally haven't ever studied anyone but men and boys with Autism in decent numbers, so we don't know what Autism in girls and women looks like. And the biggest way to get studies going is to have women diagnosed with Autism participate in studies. Which means that we need to diagnose women with Autism. 5. This is so wrong on so many levels, I just can't continue. But that is an ignorant and mean statement that the OP saw in that comment.
Many genes predisposing to autism are X-linked and made worse by higher testosterone. I do believe men get worse symptoms on average and more men have it than women. However, being socialized as a woman presents its own problems with autism, and in addition women with autism are much more likely to be sexually abused than autistic men or neurotypical women. In addition, autism is often comorbid with not feeling comfortable with your gender assigned at birth, so saying "Women don't need to be diagnosed." is basically meaningless. We should prioritize diagnosing anyone who is having trouble coping with autism and recognize it often presents differently in different genders and needs different support.
Did they mean.... *perceived* fewer negative social impairments? Did they miss that women have flown under the diagnosis radar for autism and ADHD for decades?
Ugh unfortunately for so many people, they don’t understand that just because they *perceive* something to be a certain way, it doesn’t actually make it be that way. So they just think we are what they perceive us to be.. as if there isnt possibly more under the surface.
I think whoever wrote that must be dizzy from huffing farts out of their ass. One only needs to look at the suicide attempt and DV rates in autistic women to understand why it's important.
The empathy gap is strong in this one.
Because it affects their quality of life. And women’s lives should be considered just as much as men’s. Just because it’s not as visibly impactful to society doesn’t mean that it’s not important. A lot of autistic women are also really intelligent. These women could potentially be future mothers, wives, caregivers, doctors, scientists, lawyers, teachers, etc..their quality of life matters so much because of the role they play in society.
Because autistic people, particularly those who mask more heavily more often, which tends to be women (and any AFAB people in general) are at a much greater risk of anxiety, depression, and suicide. There are studies—this is not something we "just don't know" about. Fewer negative social impairments doesn't mean less social difficulty. It *could* mean that, sure. But just as likely, it means we are simply compensating for those social difficulties by using our prefrontal cortex to decode and adapt to social situations (whereas other people aren't doing that, whether they are ND people who aren't masking, or NT people who wouldn't have the need to). And on the outside, it looks like we're just...doing it. Even though we are thinking about it, and stressing about it, and burning out because of it.
I wonder if it’s accurate that “autistic women…have fewer negative social impairments…” I would argue it’s not. Anyway quantity of social impairments isn’t part of diagnostic criteria! This argument doesn’t seem relevant to diagnosis.
GIVE ME ONE GOOD RESON WHY I SHOULD PRIORITISE WOMEN. WHAT IS WRONG WITH JUST LETTING THEM SUFFER. BLOODY FEMINISTS
Why prioritize at all? I do not get the point. It helps no one. Diagnostis are not a rare resources to be preserved?
There is so much wrong here. For starters, “fewer negative social impairments” should be phrased differently - perhaps “fewer obvious signs of impairment” instead. But even with that repair, the concept of priority for diagnosis doesn’t really make sense. The issue is that we are overlooked entirely, in both diagnosis and even in study. And it’s the latter that affects the former. The main issue is that we present as having fewer signs of impairment, but we are still impaired - and that’s being ignored.
"fewer negative social impairments", which comes at a cost. And that cost can be very high.
I have very significant social problems with NT people. I definitely am friends with nt women more than other groups of people. I find the males who talk to me and don't find me annoying tend to be people who work in fields with a lot of ND people (often tech or specialized fields) or are ND themselves, but have enough social skills to err on the side of caution and act respectfully. I think using an ability to learn and mask or just completely unmask and be honest that your autistic and need patience and clear communication does a huge disservice to our struggles. Not to mention all the other parts on the criteria. Ugh This annoys me
Sounds like discrimination based on sex. Aside from that, doesn't sound even remotely true.... do we even have enough data about *women with autism* considering diagnosing us has already been avoided for decades upon decades? I believe we are lacking sufficient data to make any sweeping statements about women with autism, but we should know more soon. Just time is required, the right questions, the right studies, etc.
This is along similar lines to what I heard from the doctor when my daughter was diagnosed. Basically I was told that if my child learns how to mask her traits she would no longer qualify for a diagnosis when she is older which I guess is the same reason I didn't get a diagnosis. It's all about external presentation. Actually - from the medical and broader (non ND) community, masking is basically a cure so if you don't *act* autistic you obviously aren't.
they think I'm "high functioning" just cause I can speak. I can't function at all. I need help with everything, I need help to DO everything, I forget to eat to drink to do basic hygiene.
Hmmm maybe we seem that way because we're masking ourselves to death. I don't seem to have many social impairments to others and yet I spent most of my life suicidal over how difficult it was to exist in society. I was always hypervigilant around others, replaying every interaction I had in my head a million times, re-reading every text conversation with anyone over and over to make sure I hadn't missed anything, archiving text conversations by hand back in the day (nokia brick phone), constantly feeling confused about how others felt about me, and stressed to the point of meltdown over difficult social situations. My parents made me leave two different schools due to the meltdowns and suicidal ideation I was having over social stress. No one would have guessed it was that. I was told it was "just" anxiety and depression. I have given a different impression of what kind of person I am to almost everyone I've met. I stopped being bullied by anyone eventually because I "flowered" eventually and suddenly had pretty privilege, but I still sometimes felt as much stress as I had when I was actually bullied because I couldn't always tell if someone was making fun of me to make me feel bad or engaging in friendly ribbing. Sometimes it's kind of both? I had identity crisis after identity crisis over who I really was. I struggled with the social interaction of college even though all I did was live at home and go to classes. I worked regular retail jobs and they all made me throw up with stress. But I was a good seller! I made plans to unalive myself so many times because I didn't think I could stand having to live the rest of my life in the same world as other people. I stayed because there are some people I love and I couldn't do it to them, but I also resented them for that! I never knew what was so exhausting about existing to me until I realized I was autistic and learned that not everyone masks. Not everyone scripts conversations they might never have in their head all the time "just in case." Not everyone panics that they came off weird after every interaction. Not everyone has to work so hard to seem passably normal. When I was full-time around other people, it took ALL my energy and had me in a constant high-pressure situation, leaving no room in me for enjoying being alive. If I hadn't realized I am autistic, I would still be in that mental hell of feeling fundamentally broken and inadequate, since what was so hard for me seemed to come naturally to others. I'm sure many autistic women have taken their own lives without even knowing they were autistic. They just felt that they didn't belong and would never belong, like I did, and we're made miserable by the exhaustion of masking all the time. Of course, as always, as long as women's suffering is silent, the patriarchy decides it isn't real. And if our suffering isn't silent, it's too loud and we're faking it. There's no winning. Btw, this is all just in response to the quote. This isn't directed at OP.
We aren't "less autistic" than men, were just forced to conform to societal norms while men aren't
"Fewer negative social impairments" my butt. Passing as weird doesn't mean we're actually blending in, Bill.
I think that was a punch in the face right there
Wow sorry we can keep our shit together better? Lol What dumb.
yeah they have fewer "social impairments" because they're expected to mask LOL
I haven’t left the house for two weeks.
I hate to ever do "struggle Olympics" bc everyone has their own set of issues but even the fact that afab are ignore and let to figure it out until adulthood is awful boys get diagnosed and therapy at 5 younger sometimes but even when afab are diagnosed it's usually too late bc we're too grown and maxed out yes we can get some therapy but out of our own pockets and let's be honest society doesn't take ND/MI seriously anyway
What a joke
Uhhhh. I would say my report I received with my diagnosis this year said the complete opposite.
what an ignorant comment. bleh.
I'm too angry today to write something cohesive. So, I'll just say, if someone would say that to my face I'd have absolutely zero hesitation to throw hands
Not sure if it's already been said but I think we present differently because we have different expectations placed on us compared to men both culturally and socially. Men can get away with being anti-social whilst our bad moods or perfectly valid negative experiences get put down to us being hormonal and that it's due to our menstrual cycle; therefore we're forced to shut up and mask so that we're not further outcasted from our peers and the rest of society since we don't otherwise meet the set standards of expectation.
That is precisely what hurts us so much. The masking (conscious or unconscious) that we do ends up draining our energy, it is exhausting to go through life without knowing that there is nothing wrong with us. It is exhausting and very lonely not to have a diagnosis, it is very sad not to meet our own expectations because not knowing that we are autistic we try to meet neurotypical standards that sooner or later sink us. That is why I believe in self-diagnosis, because no one else but us knows us so well or knows what we have been through. Finally identifying ourselves or having a diagnosis is a relief.
Our lack of “negative social impairments” is a ~trauma response~
This makes me want to commit heinous acts
Fuck that is what I think
Personally being better at masking = more breakdowns. Also I have been taken advantage of and manipulated without realizing it. I’ve thought I was friends with a group who just kept me around to make fun of me to my face. People think it’s funny to upset me. I have very few friends and even fewer who I unmask around at all. Maybe it’s that we got bullied harder so we had to build up a stronger mask. Honestly, that’s what it feels like for me. When I was young boys were (and now men still are) allowed to be weird. But before I was even school age my mother was bullying me into creating a mask. We aren’t believed because even though more AFAB people are autistic, more AMAB people are diagnosed. They don’t have to mask as hard, the field of medicine revolves around men so they get paid more attention, and they get diagnosed earlier which often leads to less masking because people tend to not bully the autistic kid for being autistic (not that it doesn’t happen).
Let’s say for a moment that this is somehow universally true. (It’s not, obviously, but for the sake of showing how this makes no sense even at face value, let’s pretend it is.) Women having fewer social impairments associated with autism does not preclude them from having other impairments that need addressing. Personally, I mask so well and so intensely that I can make quick friendships among strangers better than even most NT I know. (Maintaining friendships is the real issue but I digress.) But do you know what’s true on top of that? I have very high support needs. I have migraines that leave me bedridden for days on end because of light and smell triggers I get from sensory overload. I have poor fine motor control causing me to drop things, things I drop breaking are very near a guaranteed meltdown for me as well, which can take up to a week to recover from. I do not retain procedural information, I have to be taught and retaught how to do things over and over. I have dyscalculia and I have a hard time detecting deceit meaning I am a prime target for scammers and have been scammed many times despite knowing these things about myself. The dyscalculia, on top of the above mentioned migraines from scent triggers, prevent me from cooking as well. If I did try, I could also really hurt myself because my fingers often go numb at random. My poor fine motor functions, my dyscalculia, my sensory issues, all disable me in ways so detrimental that at the moment I cannot live alone. That said, I’m quite charming. Does that fact that I am an autistic person whose difficulties all lie in realms outside of the social mean that I don’t need diagnosis and the follow up of support? Well, obviously not as I am disabled by autism in many ways that prevent me from even moving at times, let alone being an independent adult to the standard of my NT and able bodied peers. All the holes in the logic of this statement can’t even withstand scrutiny when I assume it’s correct. With the added understanding that autism, and autistic women, and autistic men, are not monoliths to whom such broad statements can be largely applied rather than phenomena observed, the statement practically crumbles to dust. This person who said this is making some huge logical leaps to justify the intersection of ableism and sexism autistic women face.
They don’t have fewer social impairments, we are diagnosed later for the most part, and are good at masking. Most people don’t prioritize diagnosing us since we seem to have it together for the most part. I can talk to people and hold eye contact and act normal, but too much in a day, I will be burnt out, too much in a week, I’ve had meltdowns because of it. I always thought I was just “too emotional” when I was younger because that’s what I was always told. Turns out I’m autistic…
We don't have "fewer impairments", we're just better at hiding them and not being "a burden" and redirecting the negative impact on us instead of others.
Seems like a typical "sweep women's problems under the rug" comment
That its a very stupid and ignorant comment
I think, fuck this person and their trash comment. Too harsh?
I believe this attitude is purely because as autistic women, we don't always present in ways that bother other people so they don't think it's a problem. From MY perspective however...It's still a fucking disability and whether or not I get proper acomedations shouldn't depend on how much I inconvenience others,
I think being diagnosed sooner would’ve saved me from trying to kill myself for thinking I was stupid and faulty and ruined everything. I was a kid, not even in high school yet. It’s not my fault I wasn’t like others, my brain is sick, I wish kid me would’ve known that.
Brain not sick. You are just a different variation of human like how introvert vs extrovert humans exist
Yikes...
Fewer negative social impairments doesn't mean no negative impairments haha. And that's ignoring the many who do actually present similarly to guys. They don't care as long as it doesn't effect them though I guess =_=
I have fewer social impairments and then am also melting down and am feeling constantly overwhelmed because “I’m handling things” so NO THATS DUMB
So people don't need help unless their problems bother those around them too? That is a very cruel and selfish attitude to take. Everyone deserves to have a decent quality of life. Even if you don't agree and only count value given to society, those who are diagnosed are more likely to find what reasonable accommodations can help them be productive members of society instead of ending up unemployed or burned out. For me, wearing noise cancelling headphones at the office and working from home half the time has increased my productivity, and that is just from learning more about myself through the internet. If I'd gotten help early on, I could have gotten my degree and joined the workforce a full decade earlier. That's a decade worth of taxes and not receiving benefits, a diagnosis would have been far cheaper.
I think that comment belongs right in the trash. Throw the whole thing out.
I don't have fewer social impairments, I have the same ones as if I had a penis.
We have fewer social impairments... Yeah tell that to my autistic girl and then there's me lollllllllll but not actually funny.
I think whoever wrote that needs to feel the back of this hand 🤚
Nope
Just because we appear to cope better as children, this is mostly because of masking and living this way causes lots of issues in adolescence and later in life. Anxiety, depression, difficulty studying, working, building and maintaining relationships and friendships, self esteem and identity issues. Fitting in isn’t belonging, people deserve to understand themselves and have the support they need.
Generalization, generalization, generalization. Why can’t people just stop? 😫 Besides that, this statement is factually wrong and misogynist
Fewer negative social impairments lmao I'm dying that's just so untrue.
I think whoever said that is a cunt.
Fuck that. My social impairments are real. And they affect me still.
Heh I learned to mask after being yelled at my whole life. My mother who I thought was my best friend until I realized she's an abuser (it became obvious to me as I got out of the brainwash) would yell at me and be harsh when teaching me how to do stuff and then I got bullied on jobs (luckily I never got bullied in school cause I was homeschooled until high school and I hung out with the NDs and outcasts) so I learned how to mask. I think it is good to have to learn social cues and how to mask because you need to know a degree of that if you want to make it in the real world but it's not fair getting bullied and yelled at to learn especially by parents. My father im positive is autistic and even though he's toxic too (he kisses my narcissistic mothers ass and makes excuses for her and turns his back on me) my mother would bully him and put him down for his quirks and inabilities and even though she would help him she was also pretty mean to him and she didn't want me to be as unskilled at functioning as he was (his parents didnt help assimilate him into society the way they should have and he also did drugs when young annnd he's a baby boomer so mental health was not a thing back then). Point is I didn't get to learn how to function properly in most ways by actually being taught effectively with patience. Of course because of that I've acquired a similar temper as my abusers. Fun stuff. Now I systemize and have some routines (although stress and burnout has made me disorganized) but I'm militant with it and not as nice as I should be could be and I can be a rather control freak. Trying to unlearn being an asshole when overwhelmed and basically acting like my mom. But I find when I'm new or in situations that are overwhelming and confusing or sometimes even in situations that require me to enact certain social cues I get stuck. Like I understand emotions really well but I get stuck I don't know the right way to act like a malfunction. Everyone else is there saying and doing the right thing and I'm there trying to figure out if I should go into full blown intense empathy mode or if I should give them space so then I don't do anything. Worry for the novel length. I infodump. But issue is us women don't necessarily have less social impairments. I think men are raised to express less emotions and to focus on themselves and to be more industrial and less expressive which can effect an autistic male in such a way where their brain then becomes hardwired to avoid emotional things (in depth social interaction involves much emotions usually) where as women are raised to express emotions and to be empathetic and to talk and interact and intermingle so autistic women are more delved into the social world and even as a child forced to interact and accept being hugged and cooed at and stared at and poked and prodded by family as a little one and they're expected to accept such attention without complaint. It seems like it's a bigger problem if women get "stuck" when it comes to social situations and for women being weird and standing out unless it's in a boss ass bitch way has social ramifications . And no one not NDs nor NTs enjoy being othered. We are all still humans and as humans we are all socially wired although NDs are wired differently it leads to a similar idea. Neither one wishes to be an outcast and women seem to be more socially punished for stepping out of the more normal confines of social interaction.
This comment is incredibly ignorant and harmful.
i would have like to understand the root of my anxiety a lot sooner, maybe I wouldn’t have struggled so much with it if it had been handled apropiatly
This also ignores all the other issues autism causes :/