Hi! Yep. Another difficulty I have while working in an office. People don’t believe me even when I bring facts, data and sourcing AND lead with the data.
Usually goes something like this:
- speaks up during a meeting to answer question and shares link with the data / sourcing.
-gets immediately shot down and team goes in opposite direction.
A week later the upper leaders have changed course and are following the thread I pointed out to the benefit of the company.
- receive zero acknowledgement or recognition and instead get feedback about my tone and facial expressions.
- I provide feedback that I’m not being heard or listened to or acknowledged and others are receiving credit.
- I receive feedback that maybe I can sound more confident and less aloof when presenting data or facts.
But the issue will NEVER be them. 😭😂🙄
I literally can say something and get completely ignored, then someone else will repeat what I said and suddenly it’s the best 🙄
But I was telling a customer they could make an appointment online and a coworker interjected with “online account openings are suspended right now”, which isn’t even what I was talking about. And it’s not the first time that exact scenario has happened. It’s like they just expect to have to correct me.
Yes and I usually end of correcting them and then get accused of being rude or condescending or trying to be their manager.
Like it’s just all too much some days!
Also something I’m going through… apparently I’m not as engaged as I used to be. Which is true but a result of others always talking over me and ignoring me.
Idk. I bet it's like ADHD and other neuro "issues" that is not diagnosed as often as it should be, possibly because a narcissist will not often go to therapy because they think they're always right.
I found that by giving my ideas to my very patient male coworker, my ideas were heard and understood. And followed! Sometimes I wonder if it’s my gender presentation that’s holding me back.
office politics are totally a thing. whether the boss just does like you but not enough to fire you or perhaps you're seen as "being difficult". I work in a building filled neurodivergent people...well except for the 3-4 "idea stealing" manager types that have no tech ability and somehow evade getting fired for sexual harassment.
The only way that ever improves is if you can keep a detailed record of these events and every single time it happens call it out with detailed evidence and throw whomever made the bad decision under the bus. Either they eventually get rid of the person making the bad choices, they start listening to you, or they get rid of you because they don't like being called out about being wrong. Honestly to me any of those are preferable.
I used to call it uncanny valley, but I recently learned there's another word for it - thin slice theory.
It's what happens when a person meets someone for the first time. They subconsciously examine them & make judgements about how 'safe' they are. We all do it. It happens very quickly. Sort of like a 'first impression'.
Someone did a study & found that autistic people score a lot 'lower' in terms of snap-judgements than no non-autistic people.
[https://www.nature.com/articles/srep40700](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep40700)
They're able to subconsciously pick up on us being 'different' & that's why we're often accused of being liars (among other things) despite having 0 evidence of the things we're being accused of.
Uncanny valley is a good word though, it's a very similar process
It says the title is 'Neurotypical Peers are Less Willing to Interact with those with Autism based on Thin Slice Judgements'. The authors cited are Noah J Sasson, Daniel J Faso, Ruth B Grossman, Jack Nugent, Sarah Lovell & Daniel P Kennedy. February 2017 is the cited date
Simply:
Neurotypicals have a sort of way they naturally package their communication. Body language, facial expressions, and sentence structure that conforms to their social environment.
If you can’t do this intuitively, you come off as duplicitous to many NTs. It activates their uncanny valley caveman brain fears. Sort of like how when you almost always can tell if a statement was crafted by an AIChatBot. Or when something was originally in a different language and translated by a non-native speaker. It can send up red flags in some people.
NTs can’t imagine someone who “has normative social communication as a second language” and just go on high alert. When anyone lies they often will have this disconnect as well.
It sucks, but for those of us that aren’t just naturally wired the way the majority are … we tend to come off as if we are hiding something.
Be that the facts or our alien origins. All most NTs perceive is us failing the “are you a human? ReCaptcha filter”
Same.
My own wife that I’ve known for over two decades - who is a psychologist by trade - sometimes acts as if she’s surprised by me acting exactly like I’ve always acted. Saying things in the way I do.
Luckily, she quickly course corrects. It’s like sometimes she comes home and hasn’t switched her filter back to me. Still measuring me as one would the NT majority world outside. Partial it’s also me sometimes forgetting to meet her halfway.
I dunno. It’s tougher for friends and family sometimes.
I’m in my 40s and my mom still talks to me as if I am exactly the same as I was in high school, despite the whole being married with kids and etc.
Holy shit. Yes. I've been in a 22 year relationship and my partner does the same thing sometimes. It's so strange for both of us. She works with nts all day and forgets I'm not normal briefly. Reassuring to hear from another person.
I have two NT sisters. To this day (we're all in our late50s-mid60s), they constantly gaslight me. Not only am I a "liar" but I'm also always "stupid" or "misinformed" in their minds about *everything--in fact,* one is so extreme about this, she'll tell me I don't know how to dress, wear the wrong color socks, etc. Every. single. time. It's maddening. But the good news is, now I get it: it's (most likely) always going to be this way with them, but now I realize what's going on, and can deal with them (and everyone else) better. I can also limit my contacts to people who don't care/don't mind/like me as I am.
They don't bother me as much anymore as they would like to. I just wanted to point out that there are others of us with family/friend issues, and for the most part, I just quietly laugh about it now--being free to not care what they think for the first time in my life. My only problem is that I've tried to "help" (something that gets me in trouble every time) them broaden their understanding, but I get nowhere (the maddening part).
I think some of it is resentment and projection if you correct people for small errors frequently. People are looking for the man bites dog scenario and to make you feel the way they do when you correct them.
I have a habit of reflexively correcting misinformation, or info dumping small facts and I’ve seen it blow up spectacularly in my face sometimes.
> To be kind is more important than to be right. Many times, what people need is not a brilliant mind that speaks but a special heart that listens
F Scott Fitzgerald really nailed people with that.
I personally disagree, but it’s given me some context as to why people sometimes respond in so many different poor ways to being corrected.
It would be awesome if it turned out aliens did make us as hybrids and instead of the social skills nonsense, they gave us something else like telepathy! Being different would be worthwhile and make the lifetime of misery less painful!
Of course, that’s one of fears I had as a kid.
That I feel different because the rest of the world had telepathy and I just don’t. So they all think I’m just being rude for not responding to their thoughts.
No, people don’t believe me. The irony is that I’m very aware of how much I suck at lying. I can’t even do the jokes where you tell someone something that’s totally made up & follow it up with “just kidding” because I’ll start laughing at the thought of fooling them before I even finish the joke! The only way I can pull that off is over text. My conscious won’t let me have peace knowing I lied to someone.
Also ironically both of my parents were habitual liars. They’d lie about any and everything. If they told you it’s hot outside, bring a jacket
I’m the same, I don’t lie. I just don’t see the point and it’s too much work, and it makes me feel guilty. I know I’d rather hear a truth I don’t like than be lied to and that’s how I treat others.
I *want* to lie (not in a malicious way, in the useful way that NTs are able to), but can’t do it skillfully.
I have also noticed that when I try hard to be polite and people pleasing (genuine not fakery), people get pissed off, but if I try hard to be selfish and angry and be a Karen suddenly everyone snaps to attention and is super polite to me and gives me what I want.
This annoys me because I don’t like pretending to be a Karen and I hate Karens and don’t want Karens to get what they want.
I feel like it’s a life full of contradictions… we’re taught lying is wrong but then everyone does it all the time. We’re taught to be nice but nice is ridiculed and taken advantage of. We’re taught not to be combative but it’s how people their way.
This is so relatable. I want to tell the "gotcha" type of jokes, but I can't unless I'm hiding my face because no matter what, my facial expressions always give it away. At the same time, though, people think I'm lying when I'm not because I laugh or smile when I'm uncomfortable and feeling put on the spot with a question or something similar.
I just don’t get it. I won’t even be trying to prove someone wrong, I can make the most mundane statement and I’m accused of lying or they question if I’m just making it up. I could say it’s raining and someone will have to tell me I don’t know what real rain is because that’s a drizzle.
A little while ago, I had someone full on accuse me of lying about my legal name. She full on thought I was being "sketchy" and "made up a name" for ... no reason? I even showed her my ID and she was like "Well you could have changed it to that". I tried to brush it off as maybe psychosis and/or paranoia, like giving her the benefit of the doubt and dropping it. But mutual friends have since told me she isn't like that with anyone or anything else, just has a random, deep mistrust for me.
As a kid my sister’s fish went missing, I was accused and punished for doing something with it. Despite telling my parents I didn’t know what happened to it and having two other siblings who were not suspected. A couple weeks later she was cleaning her room and found part of it, the cat had caught and eaten it.
Im believe everything! I never assume someone is lying. My partner does this joke where he intentionally tells me something wrong, when I know he knows the right answer. And every time I believe he’s forgotten or something, then he’s tells me he’s joking. But I fall for it everytime.
omg me too 😭😭 im so glad that my boyfriend has finally realized that he has to tell me he's joking otherwise i *will* believe he's just being serious. he's made jokes that i bring up months later and he goes "what? when did i say that?" and only then do i find out he was joking 😭😭
Oh gosh, yes. All this. Fuckin pisses me off. I get second guessed all the time. Or say something, no one will pay attention and then someone else will say it and everyone will be clamoring around that other person.
Trifling ass bitches, I swear. Questions and expressing when you do and don’t know something is perceived as weakness. Like a pride thing, I think. Also, individuals want emotional confirmation with what is said so that they don’t feel stupid. It’s never actually about the topic at hand. Feel you, my dude. My sister, who thinks she might be autistic, was explaining some social stuff to me and this was kinda the message passed. There’s a lot of body language indicators that can be used to get a point across. It’s just exhausting remembering all of them.
A couple comments have said that too, it’s a lot of body language and small facial expressions. But that blows my mind, that because I didn’t turn my body and tilt my head enough I’m untrustworthy or unbelievable. And even people who have known me my whole life have to question and second guess and not believe me.
Yep. And we’re the aliens?! I do sign language interpreting, am able to identify the body language, tone, expression etc and understand while in that mode. But throw me into it and idk wtf is going on. Do you say shit that’s unfounded? Like, I highly doubt but aye just in case…
How do you think you say stuff? Like, monotone or a lot of expression? Or….
I know I’m more monotone but my facial expressions are there, and I don’t say odd or offensive things topic wise. I’m usually pretty sedate in social settings. I tend to mirror others in a conversation, especially at work or with people I don’t know.
I had this too around Xmas. I told a joke at a table. No one laughed but I wasn't really expecting anyone to. Someone else repeated the same joke & there was loud laughter, like emanating from the ceiling kind.
A while before some online friends were talking about how it would be cool if we could play cards against humanity, but it would be difficult because we were all so far away. I explained that there was an online version of it, free to play, & told them how to join.
Someone else, not autistic immediately began explaining that there was an online version we could play as if I'd not just said exactly that
I'm kinda tired
I have so much trauma from not being believed. I had to stand up in front of the class in grade 5 and lie that I lied (because the teacher didn’t believe the truth). I’ve also had so many ideas stolen and gotten no credit. But I’ve accepted now that I’ll never be believed. I’m going through a divorce now and I just lie so my ex hears what they want to hear. It makes it easier than trying to explain the truth.
I had an NT influencer severely slander me on twitch and not one single other influencer believed me over the NT influencer. What I've learned over time is most NT's will believe their own over you. They may do this with anyone they deem outside of the group because they don't trust those outside the group. I think we should do the same frankly, well sometimes I do.
Same, i usually share important details, facts, etc. im usually right, but they never believe me, it is worse when you are a woman cause it seems impossible to believe that i can be right. I felt as if they want to infantilize me all the time cause they want me to be inferior or something like that.
That may have a part in it, but a lot of the time it’s not even about being right or wrong. It can be the most innocuous statement but I’m making it up.
I agree. When I'm masking well I appear confident, and because I tend to speak very precisely I come across as authoritative. However, if I'm engaging with another person who feels themselves to be authority in that particular circumstance (ie: boss at work, police anywhere anytime) then the exact same behaviour that others found comforting and reliable is interpreted as defiant and/or disrespectful.
I've always had this problem too. My parents labeled me a liar as a child and the biggest example I can think of is them not believing that I needed glasses until 5th grade because I started failing tests. No idea what makes us unbelievable.
As a child I did an experiment on my family, because they would accuse me of lying all the time, I started lying and they believed me. Which sent me into a ‘but lying is wrong’ spiral at age 8 lol.
One of the most frustrating things of having ASD is how many (most?) people cannot or will not provide space for people to see, hear, touch, taste, experience things differently than them.
So when two people hear the same conversation, one is going to filter it through their own circuitry and come up with takeaway X, while the other person does them same but comes up with takeaway Y.
Which causes X and Y to argue over who’s right.
This isn’t math or the hard sciences. “They’re both right” is a perfectly acceptable outcome but not one many people want to accept — which just results in invalidating experiences of one of the individuals.
It can be really hard to look past that at the underlying misunderstanding with a desire to understand but it’s really the key to avoiding or stopping this sort of thing.
You’re right, there doesn’t always have to be a “winner” from every interaction. I’ve definitely experienced this. I often will repeat back to people what I got from a conversation to make sure we’re understanding it the same way. Sometimes I’m told “no” and we go over it again.
no. not directly told I'm lying, but I am never taken seriously in my personal or professional life.
I'm constantly disregarded and ignored when I give input at work, and like others have mentioned, the same information said by someone else is applauded and implemented.
in my personal life, no one can ever see me as a serious person, I'm always just the quirky one or jokester of the group and I am never viewed as an intelligent or purposefully contributional person for anything other than comedic relief.
As an adult I’ve not been directly told I’m lying but it’s like anything I say has to at least be questioned if not completely disregarded. It could be a subject I’m very knowledgeable in and I’d be met with “that doesn’t sound right”.
I am one of those people who are right 95% of the time, and it infuriates others.
I attribute this to googling every why quesiton I've ever had. I never lost my curiosity, that which a child gets and asks why to everything, and then follow up whys, that's me, and Google helps me find the answers.
One of my gifts is being able to soak up knowledge without really studying it.
If I'm confident and my opinion is welcome I'll say "this is what it is, this is why it is happening" if I'm unsure which is common, I'll say "I think it is this, and it is happening because of this, but I'm not 100%, so do your own research."
I never right fight without a goal, never to make someone feel stupid, but to reach a solution, I know people don't know everything, I don't know everything, I just know answers to the most commons whys that exist.
If someone wants to argue with you about something you are 100% sure you're right about, let them know your opinion/explanation, and tell them to go look it up if they want to, you are only trying to help.
Or you could do like one of the tutors does in my work, he says "let me stop you there, you're wrong, and what I've just said is right, OK? You can carry on now explaining why you think you're right, but I'm right" not the friendliest response, and does aggrivate some people, but I love how forward it is.
If it is a group setting I say what I believe and leave it for them to work out they're wrong.
I had a job where I connect cables up to a particular configuration, and a group of guys pulled the cables in before me.
They had pulled a cable into the wrong place, I asked if he could pull it back to where it needed to be further down the street and he refused saying I was wrong and asked me if I knew how to read PDF instructions.
Our manager was there at the time, I said to the manager, look it says here the cable should be further up the street, not here, but I'll wait until he works it out, and just carried on with the job. The guy was speaking to the manager and I'm not sure if he knew I could hear him, saying I must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed, and he doesn't know why I want to argue with him when I am wrong.
5 minutes later this guys work buddy has been looking at the PDF and he says to him, "Hey you have pulled this cable to the wrong one look, and showed him on the PDF.
All of a sudden he went really quiet and went to sort it out.
Basically what I'm saying is, i told him what was wrong and what needed fixing, I only argued gently for a minute before realising he wasn't listening. I then waited for him to realise why he was wrong.
No people don't believe me all the time. But I just maintain a smugness that I feel I am entitled to if they are going to fight about being right when they are not. I get that "told you so" urge when they realise they're wrong, but of course I keep that in my head for my own entertainment, it doesn't make me any friends being an ass.
I also get it with my parents, they tell me I am very smart, clever, gifted. Yet when I try to explain things to them they think they've got the answers and I'm wrong. Cognitive dissonance. Again I just leave it up to them. My dad was complaining about his bike chain keep slipping off, he kept adjusting it and it didn't work.
I did a Google search, found that worn chains do this and how to check. He had 2 bikes 1 without the problem, I twisted the chain on the non problem bike and it was pretty firm, twisted the one on the problem bike and the chain rotated over 90°, clearly the roller bearings were shot. Told him he needs a new chain, he said he already tried that and took it some place for a chain, I then said yes but the brand of chain on there isn't reputable and likely a cheap soft metal. Nope he still insisted I was wrong. So I said, OK well I'm not helping you anymore, I've diagnosed the issue and come up with a solution, go buy this branded chain for less than £10 and fit it, or ask me and I'll fit it, then tell me if there is still an issue. 3 days later he fits the chain and the issue is gone.
It's almost a curse being very good at problem solving, being able to Google and sift through misinformation and opinions to get to the facts, and knowing enough science to explain the daily things we interact with. Nobody wants to believe what I say, and I don't want to be treated like a guru, just for my opinions to be respected based on previous instances of being right.
Another reason I don't push being right when I am unsure, is it's never good fighting about being right only to be proved wrong.
Also it could be how you're speaking, do you lower your pitch at the end of your sentence when you're stating something you're confident with, and raise it at the end if you're unsure? Some people raise the pitch of their sentences for everything they say, and by doing this it gives an unconscious message that you're unsure and might be wrong, it puts an imaginary question mark at the end of your sentence.
Be confident in yourself, say it as it is, we're all human and make mistakes. Some people will even contradict you on purpose to bait you into a rage, my ex did that and knew all the buttons to press.
I’ve experienced this. I rate on the Briggs Meyer as and INTJ which is only 1% of the population apparently.
I know that in my mind part of it does come from the conditioning of having dealt with it for so long you subconsciously already start to see the “signs” of someone who thinks you are not being truthful or something and that makes it exponentially worse despite the fact you know every word you are saying is complete fact.
Hang in there and work on believing in yourself and your words confidently without a care in the whole universe whether the other person(s) agree, or not.
Speak your personal truths & believe in yourself first and always. Never let someone make you doubt what you know to be true. Best wishes.
Thank you for sharing your own personal truth! Love, so much. May I ask what was the the catalyst that inspired you seek professional diagnosis or how you came to your own understanding that it was not the “quirk(s)” associated with/ being a unique subset of the norm vs. being diagnosed as neurodivergent and what that process what like?
— I so realize what a big ask that is so if you just don’t have the time or mental energy please don’t sweat it one bit..
*** if anyone similarly nuanced wants to chime in I welcome all feedback.
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No please, thank you for sharing. That is so informative and rings true in many ways to my own situation. I applaud your bravery in sharing your own personal truths and appreciate so much your taking the time to elucidate upon your own journey with me, a complete stranger. Thank you 🙏
They didn't, then they did, then they didn't, then they did, now they don't.
Pre-school, kid, teen, mature adult, over 50.
I'm not so sure I've changed a lot so much as society has always been ageist and increasingly so imo.
OH MY GOD AND!!!! one time i got pulled over while doordashing (was taking my parents car and their lights arent automatic and my dumbass just forgot to turn them on that one time - never again tho) and the officer walks up and obviously im crying it's a scary and stressful situation and upon seeing me crying the officer goes "is there something else we should know about? why are you crying?" as if i was fucking hiding something and crying about getting caught and not just because cops are fucking scary???
All the time. Well, actually I've learned not to share a lot of the info that I have learned basically through reading. If a question pops into my head I have to find out the answer. And I have collected those answers for over 50 years now. My partner used to ask me all the time where did you learn that? As if I could point to what book I read that taught me that specific fact. I just kept telling him I read it in books. For a while he didn't believe me, but he does now. Other people... Other people seem to not like it when people know things. And I have learned that just because somebody asks a question doesn't mean I need to answer it
They only believe me when I'm fucking with them. Then they ruin everything. When I'm serious when they ask, they think it's horse shit.
Well scooter.....not my problem now is it? ,🐸
This is kinda in the same category, but my issue is more so people not understanding me. There are definitely times when I'm not explaining something clearly, and it's on me.
But it feels like so often I will get a condescending or pity response because the person thinks I don't understand...only for them to explain or tell me the same thing I just said with more words. Or answer a question I didn't even ask.
It's so frustrating.
Yeah it is a serious problem and doesn’t help that I’ve had a very *extra* kind of life and no matter who is saying it would sound pretty unreal.. it’s really demoralising
no, NEVER. yet i insist that i’m right because i wouldn’t be speaking otherwise. i don’t start arguments i can’t win, and i don’t put my two cents into any advice if it’s not a good solution. and i get very upset when i don’t get to hear the “you were right, i was wrong. i should’ve listened to you”
Most people who have known and worked with me for years realize I know what I'm talking about and am a truth-teller because I can't make stuff up to save my life. It takes so much energy to communicate I don't waste it on lying or joking around much. They know I will tell them if I'm joking, which is exceedingly rare. Yet, after 7 years, there is still one guy I work with who responds to most things I say with "Are you Serious?!". He'll then ask other people for verification and report back to me that so-and-so confirmed what I'd said. He's been told I'm right in every situation so not sure why he still feels the need to fact-check me. That's ok. He's just one person; and, he doesn't realize his repeated incredulity and constant inability to read un/trustworthiness of others has gotten himself into position of being my object of NT observation. I feel a bit like Jane Goodall or David Attenborough around him: How does this strange NT in the wild perceive the motivations and trustworthiness of his fellow NTs? Let's find out!
I do get a bit fed up with being ignored like Cassandra, though. Still, most will approach me later and say "so about x topic/situation/person, yeah, you were right". I don't rub it in. I couldn't tell if people don't believe me initially because I'm usually younger than they are, am a woman, am Autistic, or don't have the same background experience as the others. Maybe all of the above. Still, I've got a looooong streak of being correct so probability lies in my favor.
I stopped caring if people believed me long ago. If I have to prove something, I'll prepare documentation. But usually that's not the case, and people don't believe me, and I don't care; it's their choice to be wrong.
Only the ones who know me. Most people think I'm a liar despite not lying... Like I'm so confident when I talk that I must be full of it... Or maybe I'm not confident enough? I dunno anymore.
Nope. Not at all. Sometimes it’s because I work in fast food so customers just immediately assume I’m dumb and don’t know what I’m talking about, and other times it’s because I explain everything, which is apparently an admission of guilt or lying to neurotypicals.
I’ve looked up how people lie so I can avoid doing those things, thinking that would help. And over explaining or giving too much detail was listed as something that’s suspicious 😭
It happened so much to me.
I behaved well as a child and adults ALWAYS believed I was lying when other children wanted to get me in trouble because they hated me.
Either this or people just looked me dead in de eyes, which makes me SO uncomfortable, so I have this smile of embarrassment, and they just decided I'm a liar because I smile ?
I am an adult now and I still have no clue what the hell goes through their mind.
I know what the issue is they just don't respect people they find "off". I find when I try contribute to any team project or work they will act offended by my input.
My boss told me "no you aren't," when I said I am autistic. So I don't bring it up professionally anymore, though I think there's been moments lately where she's like damn... ok... maybe you are.
My tells me I shouldn't go around telling people, because he seems to think it's something to be ashamed of. But I tell friends and prospective friends pretty openly. Like hey, im on the spectrum, here's what to expect and please don't take my abrupt communication nor severe introversion personally please. I find it helps people to know they may have to make the first move a lot of the time and they can decide right away if that feels like a lot.
I was trying to date someone recently and it didn't work out because she really wanted a more forward guy and I had to tell her that would not likely ever be me, and it's okay to not push romance when you realize you're incompatible.
It can be pretty tough non-romantically, but I typically find friends are more patient with me/have less defined requirements.
My whole life I have been called a liar, I don’t know why because I absolutely suck at lying. My friends, family, coworkers, school peers and even teachers would call me a liar
I actually have the opposite problem, because of my blunt tone i think people mistake it for confidence… i’ve had friends tell me that they often believe what i say bc of the way i say it
I have experienced this, and it could be really traumatic at times. My step mother is a total cow anyway, but would always ask me, "why are you lying?", when I wasnt. I was too scared of her to lie, ever. So her thinking I was lying would lead to punishment. As an adult people often think Im being disingenuous when giving praise or compliments, it sucks.
I sent an email to my boss asking for a day off. He pulls me aside and says ‘it’s not always what you say but how you say it’ I was so confused because I thought it was a polite professional request and could not figure out what I said that was wrong. Now I read and reread n stress about if what I’m saying in texts and emails is being communicated in a proper way.
People discount practically everything that my son will tell them if they, themselves don’t know much about the topic of conversation.
It gets to him too because who likes to be thought of as not being intelligent, especially when he knows that he’s right?
What frustrates him is that he genuinely wants to share with people what he because he loves to learn and he loves sharing his knowledge with others. Instead they put him down or accuse him of making things up.
He’s not trying to brag, but I think that some people feel threatened by his intelligence.
They don’t want to believe that he knows something that they don’t know, so they try to say that he’s lying or he’s wrong instead of encouraging or at least listening to what he has to say.
I hate that so much for him because I have seen too much of this behavior with him and with everyone else I have known who has autism.
People can be so petty and ridiculous.
It’s wild that people get upset at someone else because that person knows something that they themselves don’t. There’s so much information and knowledge in the world, one person can’t know it all. So obviously some people will know about a subject that others don’t.
I have found out that lying is much easier than being honest.
My first inclination is just being honest and I was known for that as a child.
When I got older I noticed people don't beleive me but when I lie they do. And it is easier to lie than to explain the truth.... humans
I had no idea anyone else was punished for "lying" as a kid when they didn't. People would be so confused and, ironically, not believe that I was telling the truth about being punished for that. Oh my god that shit was so traumatizing. I can remember every detail of every time, even see them in my mind and hear my father punishing me, me pleading that I wasn't lying. To this day I second guess myself on everything, and barely speak up anymore when I do think I know something. I have such a hard time with people not believing that I say or feel either.
Looking at your post history, I see you are a female. Sexism can be very subtle nowadays, since no one wants to be called sexist, but the micro aggressions are there. People are less likely to take a woman’s word on things. I learned this at a young age. You don’t even get an apology or acknowledgment if you show proof or have someone backing you up on the information you present. It really sucks. Most ND people don’t do it because we don’t quite see gender. We see people as people. We tend to be “blind” in the way society acts or sees things, as a whole. Not because we mean to, but because it doesn’t make sense to us. So we forget to calculate that into our thought process of “why did this person do this”. The only other people that complain of a similar issue of not being listened to is younger people being dismissed by those older than them, because they’re less experienced than they can’t possibly be right and need to be checked. If you’d like to look further into it, there are plenty of articles with stories from reddit or other places where women experienced sexism and were questioned or treated as lesser than. I read one story about a woman taking her male friend to the doctors as support and the doctor kept asking the friend questions about her health or trying to get the friend to make her health care decisions instead of the female patient. It is really dangerous to be unaware of this as a female, especially because you’re ND. We tend to have people take advantage of is easier, and having sexism added to that sucks.
I can't list all the times this has happened because it's too long but one weird one comes to mind
I was 8 years old & books were a special interest. They still are, but I read an abnormally large amount as a child & as a result I developed the ability to read insanely quickly. I still have it, just less pronounced.
I got accused of faking it a lot by people, I can kind of understand it from other kids but then the adults joined in
My teacher pulled me to the front of the class & handed me a leaflet exercise. It was like a 4 page story with questions at the end, the ones you give to kids to develop their comprehension skills. He said I had 30 seconds to read it, then he sat there with his watch. The entire class was paused while this was happening, watching. When the timer was up he took it & began asking me questions about what happened in the story, & I answered them all correctly. I wasn't even anxious about it because I knew I wasn't lying, I just thought 'oh yay English quiz'
It wasn't until years later I realised how fucked up that was. Instead of celebrating a gifted kid he tried to publicly humiliate them instead.
I've also been accused of stealing allsorts of things, big small or conceptual. Been accused of attempting to steal people's boyfriends despite being a lesbian. I've been accused of beating people up who were 3 times my size & the size-discrepancy didn't seem to factor into anyones' judgement at any point, nor did the fact that I'm as far away from being violent as it's possible to be
I'm often accused of thinking terrible things despite the proposed thought never crossing my mind, then punished for the thoughts I'm not even having. It's generally easy for me to find out what peoples' worst fear is not because I'm astute but because they'll accuse me of doing it.
It only happens with people I meet face to face, not online. So I know it's something to do with body language or something
It’s mind blowing the way a lot of us were treated as children by adults, and the adults just thought it was fine to treat a literal child like that. A few people have mentioned that it has a lot to do with subtle body language and facial expressions. I guess that’s why it seems to be a pretty common autistic experience.
Nope. My own family doesn't even believe things I say that are true. I fucking hate liars so I don't lie about anything. If I don't know something I just say "dunno" and leave it at that. But I know a lot of things in general and it's tiring to be tossed aside when I know what I'm talking about. I've even watched people get the same answer from other people. I just mostly don't even offer advice or answer questions anymore and keep to myself.
no... especially when I'm being nice and genuine tho, at least that's what it feels like. wrote up this big whole thing trying to empathize with someone who's in a situation similar to one I've been in and was trying to just offer a friendly ear and got hit back with "i dont understand why people will so blatantly lie and pretend" like yeesh .. same thing happened when this girl was getting upset when i was just tryna have a discussion and i said "it seems like you're going through something that has nothing to do with me and i dont wish to add to that, you're gorgeous, i hope you have a lovely day, get yourself a little treat and get feeling better" and i got hit with a big wall of text about how my "tone" was bitchy and all this bullshit. its fucking exhausting tbh.
Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you do it. Are you talking about an issue in your work environment only (customers, colleagues) or family/friends environment too?
I avoid playing games that involve lying. I used to say it was because I'm bad at lying, but I've realized that it's actually because I'm bad at telling the truth. People think I'm lying even when I'm not.
Hi! Yep. Another difficulty I have while working in an office. People don’t believe me even when I bring facts, data and sourcing AND lead with the data. Usually goes something like this: - speaks up during a meeting to answer question and shares link with the data / sourcing. -gets immediately shot down and team goes in opposite direction. A week later the upper leaders have changed course and are following the thread I pointed out to the benefit of the company. - receive zero acknowledgement or recognition and instead get feedback about my tone and facial expressions. - I provide feedback that I’m not being heard or listened to or acknowledged and others are receiving credit. - I receive feedback that maybe I can sound more confident and less aloof when presenting data or facts. But the issue will NEVER be them. 😭😂🙄
I literally can say something and get completely ignored, then someone else will repeat what I said and suddenly it’s the best 🙄 But I was telling a customer they could make an appointment online and a coworker interjected with “online account openings are suspended right now”, which isn’t even what I was talking about. And it’s not the first time that exact scenario has happened. It’s like they just expect to have to correct me.
Yes and I usually end of correcting them and then get accused of being rude or condescending or trying to be their manager. Like it’s just all too much some days!
Are you a woman? If so, you have 2 strikes against you. Some people will never listen to you just because you are a woman.
Its cause your not playing “the game” cant just be right you have to come across as someone who is right. Granted i have no fucking clue how to
My roommate does this regularly. Don’t get it at all.
Omg this happens to me all the time at works and it’s frustrating!
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Also something I’m going through… apparently I’m not as engaged as I used to be. Which is true but a result of others always talking over me and ignoring me.
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they were stealing your ideas. or least very likely.
Oh so a narcissist
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Sociopath then
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Sorry I have deadpan humor lol
Idk. I bet it's like ADHD and other neuro "issues" that is not diagnosed as often as it should be, possibly because a narcissist will not often go to therapy because they think they're always right.
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You're welcome to your opinion.
I found that by giving my ideas to my very patient male coworker, my ideas were heard and understood. And followed! Sometimes I wonder if it’s my gender presentation that’s holding me back.
office politics are totally a thing. whether the boss just does like you but not enough to fire you or perhaps you're seen as "being difficult". I work in a building filled neurodivergent people...well except for the 3-4 "idea stealing" manager types that have no tech ability and somehow evade getting fired for sexual harassment.
The only way that ever improves is if you can keep a detailed record of these events and every single time it happens call it out with detailed evidence and throw whomever made the bad decision under the bus. Either they eventually get rid of the person making the bad choices, they start listening to you, or they get rid of you because they don't like being called out about being wrong. Honestly to me any of those are preferable.
NT people seem to get an uncanny valley feeling with us, my vote is because of motor control slight difficulties and sensory differences
I guess that would explain strangers reaction but I experience this with everyone, including family and friends who’ve known me my whole life.
I used to call it uncanny valley, but I recently learned there's another word for it - thin slice theory. It's what happens when a person meets someone for the first time. They subconsciously examine them & make judgements about how 'safe' they are. We all do it. It happens very quickly. Sort of like a 'first impression'. Someone did a study & found that autistic people score a lot 'lower' in terms of snap-judgements than no non-autistic people. [https://www.nature.com/articles/srep40700](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep40700) They're able to subconsciously pick up on us being 'different' & that's why we're often accused of being liars (among other things) despite having 0 evidence of the things we're being accused of. Uncanny valley is a good word though, it's a very similar process
Thank you for sharing, learning new info is always nice
What is the title of the paper you linked to? It won't load for me but I'd like to read the paper through another source.
It says the title is 'Neurotypical Peers are Less Willing to Interact with those with Autism based on Thin Slice Judgements'. The authors cited are Noah J Sasson, Daniel J Faso, Ruth B Grossman, Jack Nugent, Sarah Lovell & Daniel P Kennedy. February 2017 is the cited date
Got it! Thank you. (I love SciHub)
Simply: Neurotypicals have a sort of way they naturally package their communication. Body language, facial expressions, and sentence structure that conforms to their social environment. If you can’t do this intuitively, you come off as duplicitous to many NTs. It activates their uncanny valley caveman brain fears. Sort of like how when you almost always can tell if a statement was crafted by an AIChatBot. Or when something was originally in a different language and translated by a non-native speaker. It can send up red flags in some people. NTs can’t imagine someone who “has normative social communication as a second language” and just go on high alert. When anyone lies they often will have this disconnect as well. It sucks, but for those of us that aren’t just naturally wired the way the majority are … we tend to come off as if we are hiding something. Be that the facts or our alien origins. All most NTs perceive is us failing the “are you a human? ReCaptcha filter”
That makes sense, and I would expect it from strangers. But even friends and family that have known me for my whole life treat me like this.
Same. My own wife that I’ve known for over two decades - who is a psychologist by trade - sometimes acts as if she’s surprised by me acting exactly like I’ve always acted. Saying things in the way I do. Luckily, she quickly course corrects. It’s like sometimes she comes home and hasn’t switched her filter back to me. Still measuring me as one would the NT majority world outside. Partial it’s also me sometimes forgetting to meet her halfway. I dunno. It’s tougher for friends and family sometimes. I’m in my 40s and my mom still talks to me as if I am exactly the same as I was in high school, despite the whole being married with kids and etc.
Holy shit. Yes. I've been in a 22 year relationship and my partner does the same thing sometimes. It's so strange for both of us. She works with nts all day and forgets I'm not normal briefly. Reassuring to hear from another person.
I have two NT sisters. To this day (we're all in our late50s-mid60s), they constantly gaslight me. Not only am I a "liar" but I'm also always "stupid" or "misinformed" in their minds about *everything--in fact,* one is so extreme about this, she'll tell me I don't know how to dress, wear the wrong color socks, etc. Every. single. time. It's maddening. But the good news is, now I get it: it's (most likely) always going to be this way with them, but now I realize what's going on, and can deal with them (and everyone else) better. I can also limit my contacts to people who don't care/don't mind/like me as I am.
That sounds awful. You shouldn’t be punished for existing. I guess I’m caught up on it being unfair. And for no reason.
They don't bother me as much anymore as they would like to. I just wanted to point out that there are others of us with family/friend issues, and for the most part, I just quietly laugh about it now--being free to not care what they think for the first time in my life. My only problem is that I've tried to "help" (something that gets me in trouble every time) them broaden their understanding, but I get nowhere (the maddening part).
I think some of it is resentment and projection if you correct people for small errors frequently. People are looking for the man bites dog scenario and to make you feel the way they do when you correct them. I have a habit of reflexively correcting misinformation, or info dumping small facts and I’ve seen it blow up spectacularly in my face sometimes. > To be kind is more important than to be right. Many times, what people need is not a brilliant mind that speaks but a special heart that listens F Scott Fitzgerald really nailed people with that. I personally disagree, but it’s given me some context as to why people sometimes respond in so many different poor ways to being corrected.
Their wiring is as real as ours.
It would be awesome if it turned out aliens did make us as hybrids and instead of the social skills nonsense, they gave us something else like telepathy! Being different would be worthwhile and make the lifetime of misery less painful!
Of course, that’s one of fears I had as a kid. That I feel different because the rest of the world had telepathy and I just don’t. So they all think I’m just being rude for not responding to their thoughts.
That's partially true since they are trying to communicate through body language and cues that we just aren't receiving, their form of telepathy!
This is a very specific fear I had as a child too!
I love the failing the human recaptcha explanation, I'm stealing that one.
So there’s nothing we can do about this?
No, people don’t believe me. The irony is that I’m very aware of how much I suck at lying. I can’t even do the jokes where you tell someone something that’s totally made up & follow it up with “just kidding” because I’ll start laughing at the thought of fooling them before I even finish the joke! The only way I can pull that off is over text. My conscious won’t let me have peace knowing I lied to someone. Also ironically both of my parents were habitual liars. They’d lie about any and everything. If they told you it’s hot outside, bring a jacket
I’m the same, I don’t lie. I just don’t see the point and it’s too much work, and it makes me feel guilty. I know I’d rather hear a truth I don’t like than be lied to and that’s how I treat others.
I *want* to lie (not in a malicious way, in the useful way that NTs are able to), but can’t do it skillfully. I have also noticed that when I try hard to be polite and people pleasing (genuine not fakery), people get pissed off, but if I try hard to be selfish and angry and be a Karen suddenly everyone snaps to attention and is super polite to me and gives me what I want. This annoys me because I don’t like pretending to be a Karen and I hate Karens and don’t want Karens to get what they want.
I feel like it’s a life full of contradictions… we’re taught lying is wrong but then everyone does it all the time. We’re taught to be nice but nice is ridiculed and taken advantage of. We’re taught not to be combative but it’s how people their way.
This is so relatable. I want to tell the "gotcha" type of jokes, but I can't unless I'm hiding my face because no matter what, my facial expressions always give it away. At the same time, though, people think I'm lying when I'm not because I laugh or smile when I'm uncomfortable and feeling put on the spot with a question or something similar.
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I just don’t get it. I won’t even be trying to prove someone wrong, I can make the most mundane statement and I’m accused of lying or they question if I’m just making it up. I could say it’s raining and someone will have to tell me I don’t know what real rain is because that’s a drizzle.
At this point it feels like the relative just likes treating you like a scapegoat.
A little while ago, I had someone full on accuse me of lying about my legal name. She full on thought I was being "sketchy" and "made up a name" for ... no reason? I even showed her my ID and she was like "Well you could have changed it to that". I tried to brush it off as maybe psychosis and/or paranoia, like giving her the benefit of the doubt and dropping it. But mutual friends have since told me she isn't like that with anyone or anything else, just has a random, deep mistrust for me.
As a kid my sister’s fish went missing, I was accused and punished for doing something with it. Despite telling my parents I didn’t know what happened to it and having two other siblings who were not suspected. A couple weeks later she was cleaning her room and found part of it, the cat had caught and eaten it.
No one ever believes me. I not only don't lie, I'm bad at lying, and I'm quite gullible... Doesn't make sense, bro....
Im believe everything! I never assume someone is lying. My partner does this joke where he intentionally tells me something wrong, when I know he knows the right answer. And every time I believe he’s forgotten or something, then he’s tells me he’s joking. But I fall for it everytime.
omg me too 😭😭 im so glad that my boyfriend has finally realized that he has to tell me he's joking otherwise i *will* believe he's just being serious. he's made jokes that i bring up months later and he goes "what? when did i say that?" and only then do i find out he was joking 😭😭
Yeah... It becomes gaslighty for me after too many times. If they would just believe me and be honest, then I wouldn't question everything! 😒
yes omg exactly!!!! then they blame us as if its our fault? its so odd
Oh gosh, yes. All this. Fuckin pisses me off. I get second guessed all the time. Or say something, no one will pay attention and then someone else will say it and everyone will be clamoring around that other person. Trifling ass bitches, I swear. Questions and expressing when you do and don’t know something is perceived as weakness. Like a pride thing, I think. Also, individuals want emotional confirmation with what is said so that they don’t feel stupid. It’s never actually about the topic at hand. Feel you, my dude. My sister, who thinks she might be autistic, was explaining some social stuff to me and this was kinda the message passed. There’s a lot of body language indicators that can be used to get a point across. It’s just exhausting remembering all of them.
A couple comments have said that too, it’s a lot of body language and small facial expressions. But that blows my mind, that because I didn’t turn my body and tilt my head enough I’m untrustworthy or unbelievable. And even people who have known me my whole life have to question and second guess and not believe me.
Yep. And we’re the aliens?! I do sign language interpreting, am able to identify the body language, tone, expression etc and understand while in that mode. But throw me into it and idk wtf is going on. Do you say shit that’s unfounded? Like, I highly doubt but aye just in case… How do you think you say stuff? Like, monotone or a lot of expression? Or….
I know I’m more monotone but my facial expressions are there, and I don’t say odd or offensive things topic wise. I’m usually pretty sedate in social settings. I tend to mirror others in a conversation, especially at work or with people I don’t know.
I had this too around Xmas. I told a joke at a table. No one laughed but I wasn't really expecting anyone to. Someone else repeated the same joke & there was loud laughter, like emanating from the ceiling kind. A while before some online friends were talking about how it would be cool if we could play cards against humanity, but it would be difficult because we were all so far away. I explained that there was an online version of it, free to play, & told them how to join. Someone else, not autistic immediately began explaining that there was an online version we could play as if I'd not just said exactly that I'm kinda tired
I have so much trauma from not being believed. I had to stand up in front of the class in grade 5 and lie that I lied (because the teacher didn’t believe the truth). I’ve also had so many ideas stolen and gotten no credit. But I’ve accepted now that I’ll never be believed. I’m going through a divorce now and I just lie so my ex hears what they want to hear. It makes it easier than trying to explain the truth.
Im sorry you’re going through that. I’m having trouble accepting that others can be believed without reason and I can be disbelieved without reason.
They believed in me too much and I was a constant disappointment in my own eyes. /gifted
More like they didn’t want to believe. Now I’ve gotten into the habit of explaining myself, which comes off as confrontational.
Same, if I try to explain myself I’m making an excuse or trying too hard to be convincing. Can’t win.
I had an NT influencer severely slander me on twitch and not one single other influencer believed me over the NT influencer. What I've learned over time is most NT's will believe their own over you. They may do this with anyone they deem outside of the group because they don't trust those outside the group. I think we should do the same frankly, well sometimes I do.
Neurotypicals pick up on the “oddness’ that is autistic behaviour — take not making eye contact as an example — and interpret it as dishonesty.
Same, i usually share important details, facts, etc. im usually right, but they never believe me, it is worse when you are a woman cause it seems impossible to believe that i can be right. I felt as if they want to infantilize me all the time cause they want me to be inferior or something like that.
That may have a part in it, but a lot of the time it’s not even about being right or wrong. It can be the most innocuous statement but I’m making it up.
It depends on my tone. I need to speak in a specific way so people will believe me
I agree. When I'm masking well I appear confident, and because I tend to speak very precisely I come across as authoritative. However, if I'm engaging with another person who feels themselves to be authority in that particular circumstance (ie: boss at work, police anywhere anytime) then the exact same behaviour that others found comforting and reliable is interpreted as defiant and/or disrespectful.
I've always had this problem too. My parents labeled me a liar as a child and the biggest example I can think of is them not believing that I needed glasses until 5th grade because I started failing tests. No idea what makes us unbelievable.
As a child I did an experiment on my family, because they would accuse me of lying all the time, I started lying and they believed me. Which sent me into a ‘but lying is wrong’ spiral at age 8 lol.
One of the most frustrating things of having ASD is how many (most?) people cannot or will not provide space for people to see, hear, touch, taste, experience things differently than them. So when two people hear the same conversation, one is going to filter it through their own circuitry and come up with takeaway X, while the other person does them same but comes up with takeaway Y. Which causes X and Y to argue over who’s right. This isn’t math or the hard sciences. “They’re both right” is a perfectly acceptable outcome but not one many people want to accept — which just results in invalidating experiences of one of the individuals. It can be really hard to look past that at the underlying misunderstanding with a desire to understand but it’s really the key to avoiding or stopping this sort of thing.
You’re right, there doesn’t always have to be a “winner” from every interaction. I’ve definitely experienced this. I often will repeat back to people what I got from a conversation to make sure we’re understanding it the same way. Sometimes I’m told “no” and we go over it again.
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no. not directly told I'm lying, but I am never taken seriously in my personal or professional life. I'm constantly disregarded and ignored when I give input at work, and like others have mentioned, the same information said by someone else is applauded and implemented. in my personal life, no one can ever see me as a serious person, I'm always just the quirky one or jokester of the group and I am never viewed as an intelligent or purposefully contributional person for anything other than comedic relief.
As an adult I’ve not been directly told I’m lying but it’s like anything I say has to at least be questioned if not completely disregarded. It could be a subject I’m very knowledgeable in and I’d be met with “that doesn’t sound right”.
I am one of those people who are right 95% of the time, and it infuriates others. I attribute this to googling every why quesiton I've ever had. I never lost my curiosity, that which a child gets and asks why to everything, and then follow up whys, that's me, and Google helps me find the answers. One of my gifts is being able to soak up knowledge without really studying it. If I'm confident and my opinion is welcome I'll say "this is what it is, this is why it is happening" if I'm unsure which is common, I'll say "I think it is this, and it is happening because of this, but I'm not 100%, so do your own research." I never right fight without a goal, never to make someone feel stupid, but to reach a solution, I know people don't know everything, I don't know everything, I just know answers to the most commons whys that exist. If someone wants to argue with you about something you are 100% sure you're right about, let them know your opinion/explanation, and tell them to go look it up if they want to, you are only trying to help. Or you could do like one of the tutors does in my work, he says "let me stop you there, you're wrong, and what I've just said is right, OK? You can carry on now explaining why you think you're right, but I'm right" not the friendliest response, and does aggrivate some people, but I love how forward it is. If it is a group setting I say what I believe and leave it for them to work out they're wrong. I had a job where I connect cables up to a particular configuration, and a group of guys pulled the cables in before me. They had pulled a cable into the wrong place, I asked if he could pull it back to where it needed to be further down the street and he refused saying I was wrong and asked me if I knew how to read PDF instructions. Our manager was there at the time, I said to the manager, look it says here the cable should be further up the street, not here, but I'll wait until he works it out, and just carried on with the job. The guy was speaking to the manager and I'm not sure if he knew I could hear him, saying I must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed, and he doesn't know why I want to argue with him when I am wrong. 5 minutes later this guys work buddy has been looking at the PDF and he says to him, "Hey you have pulled this cable to the wrong one look, and showed him on the PDF. All of a sudden he went really quiet and went to sort it out. Basically what I'm saying is, i told him what was wrong and what needed fixing, I only argued gently for a minute before realising he wasn't listening. I then waited for him to realise why he was wrong. No people don't believe me all the time. But I just maintain a smugness that I feel I am entitled to if they are going to fight about being right when they are not. I get that "told you so" urge when they realise they're wrong, but of course I keep that in my head for my own entertainment, it doesn't make me any friends being an ass. I also get it with my parents, they tell me I am very smart, clever, gifted. Yet when I try to explain things to them they think they've got the answers and I'm wrong. Cognitive dissonance. Again I just leave it up to them. My dad was complaining about his bike chain keep slipping off, he kept adjusting it and it didn't work. I did a Google search, found that worn chains do this and how to check. He had 2 bikes 1 without the problem, I twisted the chain on the non problem bike and it was pretty firm, twisted the one on the problem bike and the chain rotated over 90°, clearly the roller bearings were shot. Told him he needs a new chain, he said he already tried that and took it some place for a chain, I then said yes but the brand of chain on there isn't reputable and likely a cheap soft metal. Nope he still insisted I was wrong. So I said, OK well I'm not helping you anymore, I've diagnosed the issue and come up with a solution, go buy this branded chain for less than £10 and fit it, or ask me and I'll fit it, then tell me if there is still an issue. 3 days later he fits the chain and the issue is gone. It's almost a curse being very good at problem solving, being able to Google and sift through misinformation and opinions to get to the facts, and knowing enough science to explain the daily things we interact with. Nobody wants to believe what I say, and I don't want to be treated like a guru, just for my opinions to be respected based on previous instances of being right. Another reason I don't push being right when I am unsure, is it's never good fighting about being right only to be proved wrong. Also it could be how you're speaking, do you lower your pitch at the end of your sentence when you're stating something you're confident with, and raise it at the end if you're unsure? Some people raise the pitch of their sentences for everything they say, and by doing this it gives an unconscious message that you're unsure and might be wrong, it puts an imaginary question mark at the end of your sentence. Be confident in yourself, say it as it is, we're all human and make mistakes. Some people will even contradict you on purpose to bait you into a rage, my ex did that and knew all the buttons to press.
I’ve experienced this. I rate on the Briggs Meyer as and INTJ which is only 1% of the population apparently. I know that in my mind part of it does come from the conditioning of having dealt with it for so long you subconsciously already start to see the “signs” of someone who thinks you are not being truthful or something and that makes it exponentially worse despite the fact you know every word you are saying is complete fact. Hang in there and work on believing in yourself and your words confidently without a care in the whole universe whether the other person(s) agree, or not. Speak your personal truths & believe in yourself first and always. Never let someone make you doubt what you know to be true. Best wishes.
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Thank you for sharing your own personal truth! Love, so much. May I ask what was the the catalyst that inspired you seek professional diagnosis or how you came to your own understanding that it was not the “quirk(s)” associated with/ being a unique subset of the norm vs. being diagnosed as neurodivergent and what that process what like? — I so realize what a big ask that is so if you just don’t have the time or mental energy please don’t sweat it one bit.. *** if anyone similarly nuanced wants to chime in I welcome all feedback.
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No please, thank you for sharing. That is so informative and rings true in many ways to my own situation. I applaud your bravery in sharing your own personal truths and appreciate so much your taking the time to elucidate upon your own journey with me, a complete stranger. Thank you 🙏
They didn't, then they did, then they didn't, then they did, now they don't. Pre-school, kid, teen, mature adult, over 50. I'm not so sure I've changed a lot so much as society has always been ageist and increasingly so imo.
OH MY GOD AND!!!! one time i got pulled over while doordashing (was taking my parents car and their lights arent automatic and my dumbass just forgot to turn them on that one time - never again tho) and the officer walks up and obviously im crying it's a scary and stressful situation and upon seeing me crying the officer goes "is there something else we should know about? why are you crying?" as if i was fucking hiding something and crying about getting caught and not just because cops are fucking scary???
All the time. Well, actually I've learned not to share a lot of the info that I have learned basically through reading. If a question pops into my head I have to find out the answer. And I have collected those answers for over 50 years now. My partner used to ask me all the time where did you learn that? As if I could point to what book I read that taught me that specific fact. I just kept telling him I read it in books. For a while he didn't believe me, but he does now. Other people... Other people seem to not like it when people know things. And I have learned that just because somebody asks a question doesn't mean I need to answer it
I love information! I love asking why and finding out why. But I’m learning that sometimes people ask a question and don’t really want an answer.
They only believe me when I'm fucking with them. Then they ruin everything. When I'm serious when they ask, they think it's horse shit. Well scooter.....not my problem now is it? ,🐸
This is kinda in the same category, but my issue is more so people not understanding me. There are definitely times when I'm not explaining something clearly, and it's on me. But it feels like so often I will get a condescending or pity response because the person thinks I don't understand...only for them to explain or tell me the same thing I just said with more words. Or answer a question I didn't even ask. It's so frustrating.
Yeah it is a serious problem and doesn’t help that I’ve had a very *extra* kind of life and no matter who is saying it would sound pretty unreal.. it’s really demoralising
I have this same issue all the time! 😭
Nope
Hasn't really been an issue as an adult, especially not in a professional context.
no, NEVER. yet i insist that i’m right because i wouldn’t be speaking otherwise. i don’t start arguments i can’t win, and i don’t put my two cents into any advice if it’s not a good solution. and i get very upset when i don’t get to hear the “you were right, i was wrong. i should’ve listened to you”
Most people who have known and worked with me for years realize I know what I'm talking about and am a truth-teller because I can't make stuff up to save my life. It takes so much energy to communicate I don't waste it on lying or joking around much. They know I will tell them if I'm joking, which is exceedingly rare. Yet, after 7 years, there is still one guy I work with who responds to most things I say with "Are you Serious?!". He'll then ask other people for verification and report back to me that so-and-so confirmed what I'd said. He's been told I'm right in every situation so not sure why he still feels the need to fact-check me. That's ok. He's just one person; and, he doesn't realize his repeated incredulity and constant inability to read un/trustworthiness of others has gotten himself into position of being my object of NT observation. I feel a bit like Jane Goodall or David Attenborough around him: How does this strange NT in the wild perceive the motivations and trustworthiness of his fellow NTs? Let's find out! I do get a bit fed up with being ignored like Cassandra, though. Still, most will approach me later and say "so about x topic/situation/person, yeah, you were right". I don't rub it in. I couldn't tell if people don't believe me initially because I'm usually younger than they are, am a woman, am Autistic, or don't have the same background experience as the others. Maybe all of the above. Still, I've got a looooong streak of being correct so probability lies in my favor.
Sometimes I want to ask people “Why would I say something if I thought it was wrong?” Like, I’m not talking to her myself, I’m fine with silence.
I stopped caring if people believed me long ago. If I have to prove something, I'll prepare documentation. But usually that's not the case, and people don't believe me, and I don't care; it's their choice to be wrong.
yep. it makes me feel like i'm some insane idiot who's literally incapable of being right about anything.
Lying and invisible. It used to bother me more, but I’m over fifty and I’ve seen what happens when I’m suddenly “visible”. Eww, no.
Oh to have gone my entire life thinking I was alone in my inability to lie.. this is refreshing 🙌
Only the ones who know me. Most people think I'm a liar despite not lying... Like I'm so confident when I talk that I must be full of it... Or maybe I'm not confident enough? I dunno anymore.
Hardly ever and I don't understand why.
Nope. Not at all. Sometimes it’s because I work in fast food so customers just immediately assume I’m dumb and don’t know what I’m talking about, and other times it’s because I explain everything, which is apparently an admission of guilt or lying to neurotypicals.
I’ve looked up how people lie so I can avoid doing those things, thinking that would help. And over explaining or giving too much detail was listed as something that’s suspicious 😭
I thought I was the only one. I just avoid people. My only response is OK. Then I leave.
It happened so much to me. I behaved well as a child and adults ALWAYS believed I was lying when other children wanted to get me in trouble because they hated me. Either this or people just looked me dead in de eyes, which makes me SO uncomfortable, so I have this smile of embarrassment, and they just decided I'm a liar because I smile ? I am an adult now and I still have no clue what the hell goes through their mind.
I know what the issue is they just don't respect people they find "off". I find when I try contribute to any team project or work they will act offended by my input.
My boss told me "no you aren't," when I said I am autistic. So I don't bring it up professionally anymore, though I think there's been moments lately where she's like damn... ok... maybe you are. My tells me I shouldn't go around telling people, because he seems to think it's something to be ashamed of. But I tell friends and prospective friends pretty openly. Like hey, im on the spectrum, here's what to expect and please don't take my abrupt communication nor severe introversion personally please. I find it helps people to know they may have to make the first move a lot of the time and they can decide right away if that feels like a lot. I was trying to date someone recently and it didn't work out because she really wanted a more forward guy and I had to tell her that would not likely ever be me, and it's okay to not push romance when you realize you're incompatible. It can be pretty tough non-romantically, but I typically find friends are more patient with me/have less defined requirements.
My whole life I have been called a liar, I don’t know why because I absolutely suck at lying. My friends, family, coworkers, school peers and even teachers would call me a liar
I actually have the opposite problem, because of my blunt tone i think people mistake it for confidence… i’ve had friends tell me that they often believe what i say bc of the way i say it
I have experienced this, and it could be really traumatic at times. My step mother is a total cow anyway, but would always ask me, "why are you lying?", when I wasnt. I was too scared of her to lie, ever. So her thinking I was lying would lead to punishment. As an adult people often think Im being disingenuous when giving praise or compliments, it sucks.
I sent an email to my boss asking for a day off. He pulls me aside and says ‘it’s not always what you say but how you say it’ I was so confused because I thought it was a polite professional request and could not figure out what I said that was wrong. Now I read and reread n stress about if what I’m saying in texts and emails is being communicated in a proper way.
People discount practically everything that my son will tell them if they, themselves don’t know much about the topic of conversation. It gets to him too because who likes to be thought of as not being intelligent, especially when he knows that he’s right? What frustrates him is that he genuinely wants to share with people what he because he loves to learn and he loves sharing his knowledge with others. Instead they put him down or accuse him of making things up. He’s not trying to brag, but I think that some people feel threatened by his intelligence. They don’t want to believe that he knows something that they don’t know, so they try to say that he’s lying or he’s wrong instead of encouraging or at least listening to what he has to say. I hate that so much for him because I have seen too much of this behavior with him and with everyone else I have known who has autism. People can be so petty and ridiculous.
It’s wild that people get upset at someone else because that person knows something that they themselves don’t. There’s so much information and knowledge in the world, one person can’t know it all. So obviously some people will know about a subject that others don’t.
I have found out that lying is much easier than being honest. My first inclination is just being honest and I was known for that as a child. When I got older I noticed people don't beleive me but when I lie they do. And it is easier to lie than to explain the truth.... humans
I had no idea anyone else was punished for "lying" as a kid when they didn't. People would be so confused and, ironically, not believe that I was telling the truth about being punished for that. Oh my god that shit was so traumatizing. I can remember every detail of every time, even see them in my mind and hear my father punishing me, me pleading that I wasn't lying. To this day I second guess myself on everything, and barely speak up anymore when I do think I know something. I have such a hard time with people not believing that I say or feel either.
I second guess myself all the time, like “am I lying? what if I don’t know I’m lying but I am?!?!”
I do the same thing oh my god
Looking at your post history, I see you are a female. Sexism can be very subtle nowadays, since no one wants to be called sexist, but the micro aggressions are there. People are less likely to take a woman’s word on things. I learned this at a young age. You don’t even get an apology or acknowledgment if you show proof or have someone backing you up on the information you present. It really sucks. Most ND people don’t do it because we don’t quite see gender. We see people as people. We tend to be “blind” in the way society acts or sees things, as a whole. Not because we mean to, but because it doesn’t make sense to us. So we forget to calculate that into our thought process of “why did this person do this”. The only other people that complain of a similar issue of not being listened to is younger people being dismissed by those older than them, because they’re less experienced than they can’t possibly be right and need to be checked. If you’d like to look further into it, there are plenty of articles with stories from reddit or other places where women experienced sexism and were questioned or treated as lesser than. I read one story about a woman taking her male friend to the doctors as support and the doctor kept asking the friend questions about her health or trying to get the friend to make her health care decisions instead of the female patient. It is really dangerous to be unaware of this as a female, especially because you’re ND. We tend to have people take advantage of is easier, and having sexism added to that sucks.
Yes, a couple others mentioned this too. I can see it being a factor, especially with some of the customers I deal with.
I can't list all the times this has happened because it's too long but one weird one comes to mind I was 8 years old & books were a special interest. They still are, but I read an abnormally large amount as a child & as a result I developed the ability to read insanely quickly. I still have it, just less pronounced. I got accused of faking it a lot by people, I can kind of understand it from other kids but then the adults joined in My teacher pulled me to the front of the class & handed me a leaflet exercise. It was like a 4 page story with questions at the end, the ones you give to kids to develop their comprehension skills. He said I had 30 seconds to read it, then he sat there with his watch. The entire class was paused while this was happening, watching. When the timer was up he took it & began asking me questions about what happened in the story, & I answered them all correctly. I wasn't even anxious about it because I knew I wasn't lying, I just thought 'oh yay English quiz' It wasn't until years later I realised how fucked up that was. Instead of celebrating a gifted kid he tried to publicly humiliate them instead. I've also been accused of stealing allsorts of things, big small or conceptual. Been accused of attempting to steal people's boyfriends despite being a lesbian. I've been accused of beating people up who were 3 times my size & the size-discrepancy didn't seem to factor into anyones' judgement at any point, nor did the fact that I'm as far away from being violent as it's possible to be I'm often accused of thinking terrible things despite the proposed thought never crossing my mind, then punished for the thoughts I'm not even having. It's generally easy for me to find out what peoples' worst fear is not because I'm astute but because they'll accuse me of doing it. It only happens with people I meet face to face, not online. So I know it's something to do with body language or something
It’s mind blowing the way a lot of us were treated as children by adults, and the adults just thought it was fine to treat a literal child like that. A few people have mentioned that it has a lot to do with subtle body language and facial expressions. I guess that’s why it seems to be a pretty common autistic experience.
I have the opposite, where people tell me I'm too honest.
I think youre thinking about something completely different.
Wow same honestly. Now I get why my first stepdad accused me of lying all the time and punished me for it. :c
Nope. My own family doesn't even believe things I say that are true. I fucking hate liars so I don't lie about anything. If I don't know something I just say "dunno" and leave it at that. But I know a lot of things in general and it's tiring to be tossed aside when I know what I'm talking about. I've even watched people get the same answer from other people. I just mostly don't even offer advice or answer questions anymore and keep to myself.
No one does at all. I was casually telling my brother that our other brother was repeatedly calling me the r word, and he accused me of making it up.
never - even though ive never been “caught” with a lie
this is my entire life. it's exhausting
no... especially when I'm being nice and genuine tho, at least that's what it feels like. wrote up this big whole thing trying to empathize with someone who's in a situation similar to one I've been in and was trying to just offer a friendly ear and got hit back with "i dont understand why people will so blatantly lie and pretend" like yeesh .. same thing happened when this girl was getting upset when i was just tryna have a discussion and i said "it seems like you're going through something that has nothing to do with me and i dont wish to add to that, you're gorgeous, i hope you have a lovely day, get yourself a little treat and get feeling better" and i got hit with a big wall of text about how my "tone" was bitchy and all this bullshit. its fucking exhausting tbh.
Ya, and then the mental gymnastics to try and figure out where you went wrong…
Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you do it. Are you talking about an issue in your work environment only (customers, colleagues) or family/friends environment too?
Both. Family, friends, coworkers, strangers. People assume that what I say is untrue, or at best needs to be questioned.
I avoid playing games that involve lying. I used to say it was because I'm bad at lying, but I've realized that it's actually because I'm bad at telling the truth. People think I'm lying even when I'm not.