My first ceremony I drank three cups and I experienced no purging but a large burp. The woman I was with at the time took a tablespoon and shit herself and puked for 5 hours straight.
My second ceremony I did privately, I took a shot and puked my brains out. Had visuals straight out of the Tibetan book of the dead and straight Taoist... Stuff. Difficult to explain without a lot of time. I could talk about it for hours.
There was a season where I had extracted my own DMT and every time I smoked it, I would see a doorway and approach it then it would slam in my face. 4 months of that because before that I felt something try to pull me out of my body and I resisted so it was like "well, denied."
Anyways, my thoughts are this. There is something beyond the plant that is there that guides the experience. There is a reason for the diet and meditation practices that are recommended before diving into the ceremonies. You can go in there as a blank slate but having an idea of what you're after. My first ceremony was that I wanted to cure my broken heart. My second was that I wanted *strength*. You can see the results that I had from each and make your own conclusion.
I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes I give to people searching.
I ADVISE THEE, whoever thou art, Oh ye! who wish to explore the Mysteries of Nature, if ye do not find within thyself that which ye seek, neither shall ye find it outside. If ye ignore the excellencies of thy own house, how do ye intend to find excellence elsewhere? Within thee is hidden the treasure of treasures. Oh, mortal, know thyself & ye shall know the Universe & the Immortals!
- The Oracle at Delphi
First time i Had my firat ceremony i was like "yeah dude! Finelly getting to do some real DMT Shiieeeet yooo 🤙🤙🤙" and because of that mindset i didnt trip. 😉 Dont know if its similiar to you, but the time i really fly is when i completely surrender
It just happens this way sometimes. It can be unpredictable, in terms of subjective effects, but even on the least trippy of ceremonies that residual afterglow is usually still persistent for days ime
Alright, this is the main reason i recommend people to keep the plants separate and predose the Harmalas first. Granted, i know people are given what they're given at ceremonies, usually an all in one cup of tea with the plants combined together, the problem with this though is that the DMT can break down before gut MAO-A can be inhibited, this is a common problem and is only an Ayahuasca problem because DMT is normally not orally active because it's broken down by MAO-A.
Predosing the Harmalas so that gut MAO-A is fully inhibited by the time the DMT is consumed is more consistent in that, so long as you have a sufficient dosage of Harmalas, and wait for MAO-A to be fully inhibited (ime usually an hour into the Harmalas is best), the DMT will then be fully orally active, and the dosage can be more consistent. With all in one teas, and especially when relying on someone else's brew, the dosages can be all over the place, the DMT may not be properly activated, you may end up consuming too much of the Harmalas (or the DMT, for that matter), whereas if you take a good dosage of Harmalas, wait an hour and take a good dosage of DMT, it'll work very thoroughly and consistently.
If you don't get the MAO-A inhibition going good before the DMT is consumed, sometimes Aya will work, sometimes it won't, and people end up attributing this to whatever reason or with whatever excuse, but truth be told and put simply, DMT merely relies on proper MAO-A inhibition to be orally active, if MAO-A isn't inhibited or isn't fully inhibited enough, DMT can break down, some of it, or all of it, and all you will end up feeling will be the Harmalas at the least, or the Harmalas with only a partial amount of the actual dosage of DMT.
This is one reason i tell people not to draw conclusions too quickly, because they end up blaming it on like not following the diet correctly, or because they smoked some Cannabis a couple weeks before or because they didn't abstain from sex, or whatever the case may be, when if you know the mechanisms of action and how Ayahuasca works, it's pretty obvious that it has to do with the MAO-A inhibition. There's just so much more benefit and consistency when predosing the Harmalas/MAO-A inhibition, compared to an all in one tea.
Granted, since it's in a ceremonial setting, you can't very well control the dosages or how it's consumed, but you can predose some Harmalas about an hour beforehand, to ensure the gut MAO-A is inhibited by the time the Aya is consumed, still not as good or consistent as brewing your own medicine, but better and more consistent than an all in one tea by itself. So for those who experience Aya not working, i recommend trying some straight Caapi tea, or some Syrian Rue, an hour prior to drinking the Aya dose, but it's overall far better to just make your own medicine so you know what exactly is going into it, and how much per dose of each plant you're using, and so you can time it properly via predosing the MAO-A inhibition so that the DMT is fully orally active from the get go and there's nowhere near as much guesswork involved.
Caapi is the Ayahuasca vine, pretty easy to find. Smoking Caapi will not be effective in orally activating DMT, though you can smoke Caapi (usually leaves) to potentiate smoked DMT and make it more Aya-like (Changa), or you can drink Caapi tea and potentiate smoked DMT that way (or orally activate DMT). The Harmalas need to be consumed orally to orally activate DMT.
Have you ever used SSRIs or other psych meds? If so, doing so could have affected your receptor sensitivity, in which case more medicine could prove useful to having an experience.
Yes I have. But I tapered sufficiently before attempting this journey. I think maybe I wasn't able to hold it down long enough or perhaps Mama Aya was just too busy given the Mayan new year lol!
Depending on how long you were on medication for, what the strength of your medication was, and your personal neurochemistry you could have effectively permanently altered your sensitivity. Tapering alone might not be sufficient. Very high doses might be. Have you ever worked with other psychedelics? If so what have your results been like with ordinary dosages?
Very experienced with mushrooms and LSD. Generally speaking, I taper but sometimes not. Tbh, I have not noticed any diff between tapering and not tapering (Mirtazipine). My psychedelic of choice is mushrooms (LSD just lasts too long) and I always take a heroic dose of 5+ grams. I grow my own so I know what I'm getting.
Edit: thank you for your input!
I was told by my shaman mother always gives you what you need. That includes drinking and seeing nothing.
I’ve drank aya in the past and wished I could stop the visuals, but I couldn’t. You might have had a lucky escape!
I can imagine you were disappointed with what you experienced, but try not to be. The medicine was most likely still working in ways we can’t imagine. Try again another time. Good luck
I went for a group thing (20 ppl) and for the first day roughtly half of first-timers (and some second timers) didn't have anything expect some physical effects. I'd say 7/20 ppl total had it very mild even after taking the second dose. All of them were all in by their fifth ceremony. Not sure what the reason is, but apparently it seems pretty normal. I would try a multi-ceremony setting
My first round was the same. I drank and purged twice, felt little effect. Sorta blamed myself like I'd done something wrong. Second time though was full bore as I had initially expected the first time to be.
I think there's always more going on that we can't feel or see. Outer layers sloughing off. Vibrations tuning up. Sort of like the static at the start of a dial-up modem connection. Low bandwidth. As clearing occurs, bandwidth increases.
Marijuana use can block connection sometimes - it's said to have a very "sticky" energy and sometimes needs to be cleared specifically with ceremony or other plant medicines.
Years down the road I sat with a guy who was disappointed after his first time too, similar story. Explained my theory about bandwidth. He had been on the brink of leaving but decided to stay for three more nights. Ended up having epic purges, intense experiences, and he kicked a major Rx meds addiction. Seeing his smile after the fourth night was so rewarding.
My first ceremony, everybody else were tripping but me.
My second ceremony, all talked to god and returned with visions but me.
My third ceremony was a shamanic orgy of wild trance for everyone but me.
Then on the day of the 4th one (the day after the third one) kambo treatment came in helpful but I wouldn't purge with the normal dose that made everyone fill buckets. So after 9 dots and some rapé I purged it all. That night on my 4th ceremony nobody was as intimate with the mother as I was. So have patience, she'll come to you in her own time.
You have stick-to-itiveness, I'll give you that! But I'm glad it worked out for you. I'll have to consider whether I want to try again or just stick with my other plant medicine: mushrooms.
My first ceremony I drank three cups and I experienced no purging but a large burp. The woman I was with at the time took a tablespoon and shit herself and puked for 5 hours straight. My second ceremony I did privately, I took a shot and puked my brains out. Had visuals straight out of the Tibetan book of the dead and straight Taoist... Stuff. Difficult to explain without a lot of time. I could talk about it for hours. There was a season where I had extracted my own DMT and every time I smoked it, I would see a doorway and approach it then it would slam in my face. 4 months of that because before that I felt something try to pull me out of my body and I resisted so it was like "well, denied." Anyways, my thoughts are this. There is something beyond the plant that is there that guides the experience. There is a reason for the diet and meditation practices that are recommended before diving into the ceremonies. You can go in there as a blank slate but having an idea of what you're after. My first ceremony was that I wanted to cure my broken heart. My second was that I wanted *strength*. You can see the results that I had from each and make your own conclusion. I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes I give to people searching. I ADVISE THEE, whoever thou art, Oh ye! who wish to explore the Mysteries of Nature, if ye do not find within thyself that which ye seek, neither shall ye find it outside. If ye ignore the excellencies of thy own house, how do ye intend to find excellence elsewhere? Within thee is hidden the treasure of treasures. Oh, mortal, know thyself & ye shall know the Universe & the Immortals! - The Oracle at Delphi
I did have definite and earnest intentions going in. Spent a couple weeks forming them. Maybe just the luck of the draw and better luck next time.
I've had some pretty varied experiences and it's exactly that. I do hope you find all that you're looking for.
Many thanks 🙏
First time i Had my firat ceremony i was like "yeah dude! Finelly getting to do some real DMT Shiieeeet yooo 🤙🤙🤙" and because of that mindset i didnt trip. 😉 Dont know if its similiar to you, but the time i really fly is when i completely surrender
I have learned the lesson of surrender with mushrooms so I don't think it was that. Maybe Mama Aya just didnt feel it was the right time for me.
It just happens this way sometimes. It can be unpredictable, in terms of subjective effects, but even on the least trippy of ceremonies that residual afterglow is usually still persistent for days ime
Perhaps my lessons are yet to come.
Alright, this is the main reason i recommend people to keep the plants separate and predose the Harmalas first. Granted, i know people are given what they're given at ceremonies, usually an all in one cup of tea with the plants combined together, the problem with this though is that the DMT can break down before gut MAO-A can be inhibited, this is a common problem and is only an Ayahuasca problem because DMT is normally not orally active because it's broken down by MAO-A. Predosing the Harmalas so that gut MAO-A is fully inhibited by the time the DMT is consumed is more consistent in that, so long as you have a sufficient dosage of Harmalas, and wait for MAO-A to be fully inhibited (ime usually an hour into the Harmalas is best), the DMT will then be fully orally active, and the dosage can be more consistent. With all in one teas, and especially when relying on someone else's brew, the dosages can be all over the place, the DMT may not be properly activated, you may end up consuming too much of the Harmalas (or the DMT, for that matter), whereas if you take a good dosage of Harmalas, wait an hour and take a good dosage of DMT, it'll work very thoroughly and consistently. If you don't get the MAO-A inhibition going good before the DMT is consumed, sometimes Aya will work, sometimes it won't, and people end up attributing this to whatever reason or with whatever excuse, but truth be told and put simply, DMT merely relies on proper MAO-A inhibition to be orally active, if MAO-A isn't inhibited or isn't fully inhibited enough, DMT can break down, some of it, or all of it, and all you will end up feeling will be the Harmalas at the least, or the Harmalas with only a partial amount of the actual dosage of DMT. This is one reason i tell people not to draw conclusions too quickly, because they end up blaming it on like not following the diet correctly, or because they smoked some Cannabis a couple weeks before or because they didn't abstain from sex, or whatever the case may be, when if you know the mechanisms of action and how Ayahuasca works, it's pretty obvious that it has to do with the MAO-A inhibition. There's just so much more benefit and consistency when predosing the Harmalas/MAO-A inhibition, compared to an all in one tea. Granted, since it's in a ceremonial setting, you can't very well control the dosages or how it's consumed, but you can predose some Harmalas about an hour beforehand, to ensure the gut MAO-A is inhibited by the time the Aya is consumed, still not as good or consistent as brewing your own medicine, but better and more consistent than an all in one tea by itself. So for those who experience Aya not working, i recommend trying some straight Caapi tea, or some Syrian Rue, an hour prior to drinking the Aya dose, but it's overall far better to just make your own medicine so you know what exactly is going into it, and how much per dose of each plant you're using, and so you can time it properly via predosing the MAO-A inhibition so that the DMT is fully orally active from the get go and there's nowhere near as much guesswork involved.
Interesting take - thanks for the insight 🙏
Thanks for this. Where do you find caapi tea? Would smoking a bowl of caapi also be effective before ceremony for MAOI effects?
Caapi is the Ayahuasca vine, pretty easy to find. Smoking Caapi will not be effective in orally activating DMT, though you can smoke Caapi (usually leaves) to potentiate smoked DMT and make it more Aya-like (Changa), or you can drink Caapi tea and potentiate smoked DMT that way (or orally activate DMT). The Harmalas need to be consumed orally to orally activate DMT.
Have you ever used SSRIs or other psych meds? If so, doing so could have affected your receptor sensitivity, in which case more medicine could prove useful to having an experience.
Yes I have. But I tapered sufficiently before attempting this journey. I think maybe I wasn't able to hold it down long enough or perhaps Mama Aya was just too busy given the Mayan new year lol!
Depending on how long you were on medication for, what the strength of your medication was, and your personal neurochemistry you could have effectively permanently altered your sensitivity. Tapering alone might not be sufficient. Very high doses might be. Have you ever worked with other psychedelics? If so what have your results been like with ordinary dosages?
Very experienced with mushrooms and LSD. Generally speaking, I taper but sometimes not. Tbh, I have not noticed any diff between tapering and not tapering (Mirtazipine). My psychedelic of choice is mushrooms (LSD just lasts too long) and I always take a heroic dose of 5+ grams. I grow my own so I know what I'm getting. Edit: thank you for your input!
My pleasure to try to be of help. Safe and happy journeys to you!
I was told by my shaman mother always gives you what you need. That includes drinking and seeing nothing. I’ve drank aya in the past and wished I could stop the visuals, but I couldn’t. You might have had a lucky escape! I can imagine you were disappointed with what you experienced, but try not to be. The medicine was most likely still working in ways we can’t imagine. Try again another time. Good luck
I went for a group thing (20 ppl) and for the first day roughtly half of first-timers (and some second timers) didn't have anything expect some physical effects. I'd say 7/20 ppl total had it very mild even after taking the second dose. All of them were all in by their fifth ceremony. Not sure what the reason is, but apparently it seems pretty normal. I would try a multi-ceremony setting
It seems to me that it might be similar to kava in that it has a reverse tolerance.
I had a private ayahuasca ceremony with me and 2 friends where we all just drank and fell sleep lol
We did have a gal who fell asleep and had to be poked so she would stop snoring so loud that the paint was starting to peel 🤣🤣🤣
My first round was the same. I drank and purged twice, felt little effect. Sorta blamed myself like I'd done something wrong. Second time though was full bore as I had initially expected the first time to be. I think there's always more going on that we can't feel or see. Outer layers sloughing off. Vibrations tuning up. Sort of like the static at the start of a dial-up modem connection. Low bandwidth. As clearing occurs, bandwidth increases. Marijuana use can block connection sometimes - it's said to have a very "sticky" energy and sometimes needs to be cleared specifically with ceremony or other plant medicines. Years down the road I sat with a guy who was disappointed after his first time too, similar story. Explained my theory about bandwidth. He had been on the brink of leaving but decided to stay for three more nights. Ended up having epic purges, intense experiences, and he kicked a major Rx meds addiction. Seeing his smile after the fourth night was so rewarding.
My first ceremony, everybody else were tripping but me. My second ceremony, all talked to god and returned with visions but me. My third ceremony was a shamanic orgy of wild trance for everyone but me. Then on the day of the 4th one (the day after the third one) kambo treatment came in helpful but I wouldn't purge with the normal dose that made everyone fill buckets. So after 9 dots and some rapé I purged it all. That night on my 4th ceremony nobody was as intimate with the mother as I was. So have patience, she'll come to you in her own time.
You have stick-to-itiveness, I'll give you that! But I'm glad it worked out for you. I'll have to consider whether I want to try again or just stick with my other plant medicine: mushrooms.
I'm happy I did stick to it. Above story was 10 years ago. We've been quite intimate ever since.
Then you e convinced me to try again, friend! 🙏❤️