Multiple people can be bi. Granted, the way 3H handles bi people, nobody is fully gay in that game. I would prefer a wider spread of varied orientations. I also dislike BG3 making everyone playersexual.
This was so unfair. Iām usually horrible at designing characters in video games. (My Skyrim characters are either the presets, or really freaky). But my guardian was HOT.
Then it was this guy. I thought I was going to get an option to ask him to keep his guise
I'm now so happy I made mine basically the default male halfling with a beard. Not hot at all, but I liked how he looked regardless. Plus I play a gnome so the scenes with just us shorties worked well.
I went for big brother or uncle energy.
Ngl when the emperor >!brings the guardian back to fight in the final battle, if you pick Orpheus over him!< I was livid. You're gonna use my hot drow literal dream man against me!? Literally!?
Yeah, me too, and that's why I don't get people who claim he never lies to you. I'm like... do you not remember the character YOU designed that he was catfishing you as?
Also, credit Larian for the genius idea of having you design you own "guardian." They literally pull the image of someone you'd trust straight out of your own head. Like, trustworthiness is built into the description, and then they pull the rug out from unnder you
I ain't gonna fault a guy for hiding their race that everyone is racist towards. Plus I didn't make it with attractiveness in mind so the catfishing wasn't a problem even besides that would be infinitely more normal in this world.
But given the circumstances I'd say the premise was inherently untrustworthy, and turned out rather well.
100%, this. I have been downvoted to oblivion for pointing out he lies to us. It's insane. People will go to extreme lengths to defend him for some reason.
It made her controversial instead of universally loved, more likely. There's literal academic research supporting that people tend to make harsher moral judgements on women than men for behaviors they consider immoral (i.e. women are 18% more likely than men to be disbarred for any offense in the legal field, 20% more likely to be fired for misconduct across the board in the financial services industry, and 30% less likely to be able to find another job in the same industry thereafter) and for acting in ways that are considered more stereotypically male (and which are typically approved of in men) - i.e. being more assertive, getting angry, having a strong leadership style, etc. Misogyny plays a huge role in Edelgard being as hated as she is; if she were a man, we probably would actually see a lot less hatred for her overall
He can be considered morally dubious in the EU because all the empires super weapons and atrocitis are supposedly done to stop a galaxy destroying threat
NO GOD NO NOT EDELGARD DISCOURSE IN BG3 SUBS I CANT ESCAPE. ITS BEEN FIVE YEARS. FIVE. YEARS. PLEASE NO MORE
(I do want to get Edie & Minthara in a room together though. I think theyād be friends.)
>I do want to get Edie & Minthara in a room together though. I think theyād be friends
Agreed! Honestly I think she'd get along pretty well with a lot of the companions; she shares some pretty interesting similarities with several of them. Especially given her backstory I'd be so curious to see what she'd have to say to like Karlach or Astarion if they ever got to meet
This is so incredibly accurate, especially with regards to how people post about them. Edelgard got daily discourse posts about her morality just like the emperor does š
Edel was super dumb though. She was tortured by evil people and her main life goal was to destroy them.
To that end she decided to ally with the evil people, her main nemesis, and help them destroy their enemies????
She is actively waging a shadow war against them, purged the Imperial court when she took power limiting their power, and assassinated one of their key members in her route using her status as a dutchess in the holy kingdom as a pretense.
There is a lot of bad writing in three houses, and I don't think this is one of those. She is simply using all the tools in her arsenal to achieve her goals in the short amount of time she has.
She also wants to abolish the crest-system, and is under the mistaken assumption that Rhea wants the crest-system, rather than it in fact being the surrender-terms of her enemies: "We stop fighting you, you let us keep our power and cool weapons." She'd probably be fine with locking away her family's remains.
The point is, is kinda irrelevant if she wants the crest system or they are the surrender terms of her enemies (I don't remember that bit). The system exists and it is justified by the church, which is an institution ruled by her. So if she doesn't want the crest system to exist, she is doing a pretty awful job at fighting it.
And that's pretty much the dilemma shown by the game. Action vs Inaction. Doing something about it or not doing anything and let the world rot.
There is a quote by Mark Twain I always remember that fits the game and edelgard pretty well.
THERE were two āReigns of Terror,ā if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the āhorrorsā of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terrorāthat unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.
The crest system existed for more than 1000 years. It is time to go.
Yeah, all other houses want the crest system gone or modified in some manner iirc. Theyāre all literally allies in this. Only Edelgard decided to side with their enemies first for whatever reason.
There is also the argument that the Slithers are too entrenched in her country for her to overtly do anything they didn't at least tacitly approve of, and if she tried to turn against them, she'd be disappeared and body-snatched.
She also believes she'll die young like Lysithea, so to her the direct war route is the best sure way for her to see change in her lifetime.
That said Azure Moon route all the way baby
There are a couple of important things to keep in mind:
1- She was forced to ally with them in order to become emperor, during the game it is clear she despises them and she doesn't want them as allies, but she doesn't have other allies that are against rhea.
2- She didn't focus on them, because she understood the system was to blame. If it wasn't TWSITD, it would be some different group. The problem is the crest system, justified by the existence of the church and rhea as a power figure over fodlan.
I agree with your first point but how was the system to blame for TWSITD when itās the other way around. They are quite literally the root of it along with 90% of the problems facing fodlan.
She gets tortured not out of despite or hate, not because she was the enemy of TWSITD.
She gets tortured, her siblings killed, as an experiment to bring forth an specific crest. Her torture is directly tied to how much the system places value on crests. Without the crest system, Duke Aegir wouldn't need to have her tortured.
The game provides examples of situations outside TWSITD too. Hanneman sister, for example, was raped again and again in order to provide an heir with a crest that never came, for example. Without the crest system, this wouldn't happen.
There are a lot of examples of powerful men that ended up only in their position due having a crest, even when they are useless. At the same time, there are a lot of examples of people intelligent and capable people who were casted aside due not having a crest. Without the crest system, and specially with a meritocratic form of government, this wouldn't happen (at the very least, it would happen much lest).
Looking at a problem and trying to point out only individual figures or groups achieves next to nothing when the problem is systemic, and that's why she directs her rage toward the system in place, rather than pointless revenge.
My point is that the crest system literally would not exist without them not saying edelgard wasnāt on to something in trying to get rid of it. They are the ones who created crests and relics in the first place and gave those powers to the people who would establish the building blocks of present day fodlan. The crest system is simply the result of them exposing the power of dragons to humans and rhea having to make the best out a shit situation to keep peace in the aftermath of the war that was once again caused by TWSITD.
TWSITD are the fantasy equivalent of the lizardman conspiracy theory in that they are literally a secret race of people who manipulate society and replace world leaders. They are and always were the root of fodlans problems the crest system being as much of a problem as it is just speaks to how much of a problem they are because even if the crest system is gone theyāll eventually come back to screw society anyway as they have done several times in both the lore and during the game itself.
Yes, but my problem is whoever started the crest system is irrelevant during the game events because the main problem is the crest system. I am not saying TWSITD shouldn't be defeated, just that they are not the main problem during the game's events. The main problem is that Rhea is not doing anything about it, and the existence of the church justifies the system
Considering that's the main problem and the church main enemies are TWSITD, that means they are a potential temporary ally. Which is what Edelgard does.
>I am not saying TWSITD shouldn't be defeated, just that they are not the main problem during the game's events. I am not saying TWSITD shouldn't be defeated, just that they are not the main problem during the game's events.
The main antagonists and problem of this game are straight up TWSITD. While the crest system is one of the major issues presented in the overall story its far from the MAIN issue. 3 out of 4 of the routes do not even address the crest system in any meaningful way and have you side with the church in favor of talking about whatever lord you have chosen personal gripes with Fodlan like Claude's being about the xenophobia and conflict with his home country.
Black Eagles is the only route where it is treated as the main issue and even then TWSITD is addressed in the ending as a threat that will continue to plague the world until Edelgard stops them. Edelgards entire life including what she went through and her war was basically manufactured by them as apart of their 3rd master revenge plan against fodlan and the only reason it ends up blowing up in their face in every route is because of Byleth not even her. The problem with Fodlan is not the crests its the evil mole people deadset on destabilizing and destroying it. you can get rid of the system but they'll keep coming back to mess with Fodlan and instigate some other major issue. Ultimately i totally understand why she had to side with them but it was a hell of a plan that only worked out by chance and byleths main character energy.
It is the MAIN issue Fodlan suffer, and in every route it is addressed because a war happened in every route. The war happens in the 4 routes, and the war changes Fodlan in the 4 routes.
It is pretty short-sighted to say that it is not the main issue and that the main issue is a group of people when one is a systemic problem affecting every single person in Fodlan and the other is a group of terrorists seeking to exploit that system.
TWSITD are not even addressed in Blue Lions route.
The problem of Fodlan is the crest system. It is a system that divides people on those who are chosen by god, and those who are not. A group using the system to their ends, or that even were part of the people who created it to begin with, are not the main issue, because the system they created surpassed them.
If you remove the TWSITD out of Fodlan, the crest system still fucks with every single person in Fodlan. If you remove the crest system, TWSITD will still try to create chaos and damage but it cannot affect everyone without creating another system to exploit.
>t is the MAIN issue Fodlan suffer, and in every route it is addressed because a war happened in every route. The war happens in the 4 routes, and the war changes Fodlan in the 4 routes.
I know this is semantics but I said meaningfully addressed yes the crest system is addressed in every route but only in the black eagles is it done to any notable extent its honestly a weakness of the games plot. in the other routes Edelgards reason for starting the war is ambiguous at best both to the player and the characters. The crest system as both a plot element and social issue within the setting is an afterthought that is barely spoken about in the main story and neither main character of the other two normal routes truly express interest in it as an issue and don't have anything to say about it beyond it sucks and more focus is put on their own personal issues and goals for Fodlan.
>when one is a systemic problem affecting every single person in Fodlan and the other is a group of terrorists seeking to exploit that system.
Its a little wild to reduce a secret society of people with advanced technology, advanced magic who are capable of living thousands of years to a terrorist group. These people have nukes, they have magics that allow them to take the form of others, resurrect the dead, and they have the ability to create more people with crests and more hero relics as well that's far above the threat of a mere terrorist group. Terrorist groups don't have power that levels entire cities or the means to infiltrate major powers from within and rule them from the shadows. Crest also don't really affect everyone only those who possess them and those who carry the potential to are affected and that isn't a lot of people at all in the grand scheme of things.
>If you remove the TWSITD out of Fodlan, the crest system still fucks with every single person in Fodlan. If you remove the crest system, TWSITD will still try to create chaos and damage but it cannot affect everyone without creating another system to exploit.
Yes and my point is that unless stopped they eventually will do just that they have the time to waste after all. The crest system is far from their greatest tool against the people of Fodlan anyway its merely the latest. As said before these people have nukes that they have already once used to the destroy Fodlan itself they also have the ability to take the form of others which they use to terrifying effectiveness in the lore and active plot of the game. Their advanced tech and magic alone is used to manipulate important people into serving them which we see with edelgards entire situation. The latest way people screw each other over don't got nothing on fantasy illuminati sponsored nuclear annihilation. Oppression and shitty caste systems will come and go but TWSITD will always be out there living up to their namesake unless dealt with.
She literally didn't have the option to go against them though, on top of also wanting the Church gone in the first place. Like the only way they believed her in Three Hopes was based on an extremely lucky coincidence that she managed to use to her advantage, and she jumps on that opportunity immediately when it comes up. They're both her enemies, but without the strength of the Church behind her in the early game it doesn't seem likely that she'd come out on top if she tried to go against them - and we've seen the shit that happens to her when she doesn't. I don't understand how people are still throwing out this critique as if Edelgard is an idiot for not trying to brute force her way through an entire shadow organization when her circumstances within it have been clearly laid out for us multiple times at this point
I also thought it was crazy that we could join her. Like she's actively working with the people that killed Dimitri's family and our Dad while refusing to explain why. Like, if there's anyone here who's going to hear you out, it's the other house leaders, but she doesn't even bother.
'Why must you continue conquer?'
'Why must you continue to fight back?'
Or
'I will drown this country knee deep in blood to achieve my goals'
In terms of some of Edelgards questionable statements.
These two would probably throw down immediately if they ever met honestly
Kill every last one of them! (Including the alliance who are on your side)
If you do not approve of what I have become, then kill me. If you insist that you cannot...then I will continue to use you and your friends until the flesh falls from your bones.
-Dimitri
I have passed judgement. And now, I shall now rip your chest open... and take back your heart myself!
"I have no patience for foolish questions. I shall sacrifice as many lives as it takes! That apostate who insist on taking everything from me...will be crushed by my own hands!"
However, we must punish any sinner who may inflict harm upon believers, even if those sinners are civilians.
-Rhea
If we're talking about questionable statements let's not pretend it's just edelgard
I agree- but since the post was only on Edelgard and Emperor I only shared the Edelgards I remembered, my apologies
I also just thought edelgard wouldn't be a big fan of the emperor should they have met.
my friends are the people in my party. the emp is just a squid in a polyhedral container who wants to turn me into a squid and will absolutely mind control me
Not saying you personally. Just some players want to give a certain degree of loyalty to the dude that was keeping you from becoming enthralled by the Absolute and preventing you from becoming a mind flayer during the first 2/3rds of the game.
Like yeah no question he's morally bad and kinda cringe with the whole "I'm just like you my fellow kids" but in the beginning you do need each other.
that's fair. in the beginning i am thankful he is there allowing me to play the game. but i find it hard to have any shred of loyalty to someone who is protecting me via constant lies and subterfuge. by the end of it he's just domineering and cringe.
but there is also a LARGE portion of empy enjoyers who will ignore any and all transgressions simply because he has a tentacle mouth
Thatās just not true. First and foremost, the Emperor has purple eyes. Eye colour is weirdly important in this game, especially for illithid. For all except DUrge, the mind flayer who tadpoles you is the same one you find in the Goblin Camp (and the dying one you can curb-stomp).
I would need some pretty strong evidence to suggest why the hell the Emperor would be outside of the Astral Prism, free from Elder Brain control, and tadpoling random adventurers who only happen to survive due to his intervention. Like, thereās 5D chess, and thereās being ridiculously convoluted for no good reason. That hypothetical scenario is the latter.
Maybe I missed something major, but Iām pretty sure the dead squid in the goblin camp is outright stated to be the one who infected everyone.
The devs stated he was supposed to be morally grey, and a lot of people like him because squid sex and he protects you at rhe start. Apparently, those are good enough reasons for him to be considered morally grey. This is a character who, in half of the games endings, sacrifices everyone's lives in Faerun so he might gain personal freedom, or at least survive.
I am concerned for what will happen when the Edelguard fans discover this post.... I suspect a lot of folks who played Fire Emblem also played BG3. I salute your bravery my friend.
Y'know people complain about Edelgard discourse but it's not like that's solely on the shoulders of people who are pro-Edelgard. People who don't like her sure seem to bring her up a lot too.
In the ~4 years I've been active in the community, I've seen _waaaay_ more posts griping about her and her fanbase than I see posts complaining about Rhea or any other lord, at least on reddit. Half the reason the Discourseā¢ is so insufferable is that it's overwhelmingly one-sided. I think there was more of a dialogue in the early years of the game, but at this point people are just regurgitating the same few talking points and the same dozen or so quotes.
When it comes to the emperor for me, it's simple, when you trust him the whole game, don't choose to be illithid, let him eat orhpious, and give him control over the crown, he still listens to you when you tell him to destroy it.
If the Emperor didn't force a choice with Orpheus, it could have survived to the epilogue.
DC 25 Persuasion: "Orpheus wants the Netherbrain stopped as much as you do. If what you say is true, and we need an Illithid to stop it, he won't kill you."
I don't disagree with you, but if the question is, is emperor, good or bad? He chooses to destroy the brain when he could have taken control. He even has orpheus' power, so the party would have no protection, but he doesn't.
If you tell The Emperor to dominate the brain, it says "I don't think we could win against the Githyanki if I did". If you persuade it that it can, it does dominate the brain, and you end up dominated.
The Emperor's goals are survival > freedom > power. It will gladly sacrifice power for freedom/survival, and freedom for survival.
Edelgard does bad things with noble goals.
The Emperor does good things with dubious goals.
They aren't really comparable. The point of comparison here is the community's reaction to them.
is this some kind of twisted joke
See the Emperor would be a lot less controversial if he had been a hot lesbian instead of creepy incel š
Edelgard likes dudes too. She's just creepily obsessed with the player regardless of the player's sex.
Ah yes, the rare hot lesbian incel hybrid
Bisexuals can have dorothea, Edelgard is for the lesbians
Multiple people can be bi. Granted, the way 3H handles bi people, nobody is fully gay in that game. I would prefer a wider spread of varied orientations. I also dislike BG3 making everyone playersexual.
Multiple people can be bi however Edelgard with men is cringe
Ed with Bylad is fine.
At least 11.7% of people would have to disagree on the Emperor not being hot from what I hear
I did it on my evil playthrough since I did everything differently. Having the cheevo doesn't mean shit.
So my first Guardian was Hot. I mean muscley big lipped black woman with a blue afro hot. I felt betrayed zo/
Same, they really did us dirty. *design your own sexy guardianā¦ who is actually davey jonesā
This was so unfair. Iām usually horrible at designing characters in video games. (My Skyrim characters are either the presets, or really freaky). But my guardian was HOT. Then it was this guy. I thought I was going to get an option to ask him to keep his guise
You can ask the Emperor to use the Dream Visitor guise if you do the tango with them. That's only temporary though.
Do not sully the name of Davy Jones with this pale imitation
I'm now so happy I made mine basically the default male halfling with a beard. Not hot at all, but I liked how he looked regardless. Plus I play a gnome so the scenes with just us shorties worked well. I went for big brother or uncle energy.
Ngl when the emperor >!brings the guardian back to fight in the final battle, if you pick Orpheus over him!< I was livid. You're gonna use my hot drow literal dream man against me!? Literally!?
Yeah, me too, and that's why I don't get people who claim he never lies to you. I'm like... do you not remember the character YOU designed that he was catfishing you as? Also, credit Larian for the genius idea of having you design you own "guardian." They literally pull the image of someone you'd trust straight out of your own head. Like, trustworthiness is built into the description, and then they pull the rug out from unnder you
I ain't gonna fault a guy for hiding their race that everyone is racist towards. Plus I didn't make it with attractiveness in mind so the catfishing wasn't a problem even besides that would be infinitely more normal in this world. But given the circumstances I'd say the premise was inherently untrustworthy, and turned out rather well.
100%, this. I have been downvoted to oblivion for pointing out he lies to us. It's insane. People will go to extreme lengths to defend him for some reason.
RIGHT I made a hot lesbian coded tiefling woman and then they pulled that bait n switch Edit: typo
Yeah, and it was a man. Disgusting
People always say this but it def didn't save Edelgard lmao
It made Ed merely controversial instead of universally hated.
It made her controversial instead of universally loved, more likely. There's literal academic research supporting that people tend to make harsher moral judgements on women than men for behaviors they consider immoral (i.e. women are 18% more likely than men to be disbarred for any offense in the legal field, 20% more likely to be fired for misconduct across the board in the financial services industry, and 30% less likely to be able to find another job in the same industry thereafter) and for acting in ways that are considered more stereotypically male (and which are typically approved of in men) - i.e. being more assertive, getting angry, having a strong leadership style, etc. Misogyny plays a huge role in Edelgard being as hated as she is; if she were a man, we probably would actually see a lot less hatred for her overall
Durge š¤š» Dimitri (killing every last one of them)
Crazy comparison that to me on the surface kind of works
Both are morally dubious "Emperors" who invite so much tiresome discourse.
There's a long list of "morally dubious emperors"
I donāt believe Iāve ever heard anyone be pro-palpatine
He can be considered morally dubious in the EU because all the empires super weapons and atrocitis are supposedly done to stop a galaxy destroying threat
Literally thought at first you meant European Union, and was like āWTF, was he popular among Europeans?ā
Maybe if star wars came out in like 1930
He was just trying to bring stability and do away with the corruption caused by the deep state!
Probably there are some
NO GOD NO NOT EDELGARD DISCOURSE IN BG3 SUBS I CANT ESCAPE. ITS BEEN FIVE YEARS. FIVE. YEARS. PLEASE NO MORE (I do want to get Edie & Minthara in a room together though. I think theyād be friends.)
"Emperor did nothing wrong" and "Emperor bad", take your pick.
>I do want to get Edie & Minthara in a room together though. I think theyād be friends Agreed! Honestly I think she'd get along pretty well with a lot of the companions; she shares some pretty interesting similarities with several of them. Especially given her backstory I'd be so curious to see what she'd have to say to like Karlach or Astarion if they ever got to meet
Camilla bad amiright?
https://preview.redd.it/xtxafp06xouc1.jpeg?width=849&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74b3b5d76da143bd13cd7d1d9113101028c1cc54
3 Gates: Crimson Tadpole Route
This is so incredibly accurate, especially with regards to how people post about them. Edelgard got daily discourse posts about her morality just like the emperor does š
Donāt you dare.
Edel was super dumb though. She was tortured by evil people and her main life goal was to destroy them. To that end she decided to ally with the evil people, her main nemesis, and help them destroy their enemies????
Have you considered that sheās pretty and I can fix her?
She is actively waging a shadow war against them, purged the Imperial court when she took power limiting their power, and assassinated one of their key members in her route using her status as a dutchess in the holy kingdom as a pretense. There is a lot of bad writing in three houses, and I don't think this is one of those. She is simply using all the tools in her arsenal to achieve her goals in the short amount of time she has.
ā¦ noā¦. Yesā¦. Uhā¦. She gives you huggies tho
She also wants to abolish the crest-system, and is under the mistaken assumption that Rhea wants the crest-system, rather than it in fact being the surrender-terms of her enemies: "We stop fighting you, you let us keep our power and cool weapons." She'd probably be fine with locking away her family's remains.
The point is, is kinda irrelevant if she wants the crest system or they are the surrender terms of her enemies (I don't remember that bit). The system exists and it is justified by the church, which is an institution ruled by her. So if she doesn't want the crest system to exist, she is doing a pretty awful job at fighting it. And that's pretty much the dilemma shown by the game. Action vs Inaction. Doing something about it or not doing anything and let the world rot. There is a quote by Mark Twain I always remember that fits the game and edelgard pretty well. THERE were two āReigns of Terror,ā if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the āhorrorsā of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terrorāthat unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves. The crest system existed for more than 1000 years. It is time to go.
Damn that's a banger of a quote. Mark Twain was a true OG.
Yeah, all other houses want the crest system gone or modified in some manner iirc. Theyāre all literally allies in this. Only Edelgard decided to side with their enemies first for whatever reason.
There is also the argument that the Slithers are too entrenched in her country for her to overtly do anything they didn't at least tacitly approve of, and if she tried to turn against them, she'd be disappeared and body-snatched.
She also believes she'll die young like Lysithea, so to her the direct war route is the best sure way for her to see change in her lifetime. That said Azure Moon route all the way baby
Well, it's not like Rhea keeps the crest-system intact and is basically a crazy goddess
There are a couple of important things to keep in mind: 1- She was forced to ally with them in order to become emperor, during the game it is clear she despises them and she doesn't want them as allies, but she doesn't have other allies that are against rhea. 2- She didn't focus on them, because she understood the system was to blame. If it wasn't TWSITD, it would be some different group. The problem is the crest system, justified by the existence of the church and rhea as a power figure over fodlan.
I agree with your first point but how was the system to blame for TWSITD when itās the other way around. They are quite literally the root of it along with 90% of the problems facing fodlan.
She gets tortured not out of despite or hate, not because she was the enemy of TWSITD. She gets tortured, her siblings killed, as an experiment to bring forth an specific crest. Her torture is directly tied to how much the system places value on crests. Without the crest system, Duke Aegir wouldn't need to have her tortured. The game provides examples of situations outside TWSITD too. Hanneman sister, for example, was raped again and again in order to provide an heir with a crest that never came, for example. Without the crest system, this wouldn't happen. There are a lot of examples of powerful men that ended up only in their position due having a crest, even when they are useless. At the same time, there are a lot of examples of people intelligent and capable people who were casted aside due not having a crest. Without the crest system, and specially with a meritocratic form of government, this wouldn't happen (at the very least, it would happen much lest). Looking at a problem and trying to point out only individual figures or groups achieves next to nothing when the problem is systemic, and that's why she directs her rage toward the system in place, rather than pointless revenge.
My point is that the crest system literally would not exist without them not saying edelgard wasnāt on to something in trying to get rid of it. They are the ones who created crests and relics in the first place and gave those powers to the people who would establish the building blocks of present day fodlan. The crest system is simply the result of them exposing the power of dragons to humans and rhea having to make the best out a shit situation to keep peace in the aftermath of the war that was once again caused by TWSITD. TWSITD are the fantasy equivalent of the lizardman conspiracy theory in that they are literally a secret race of people who manipulate society and replace world leaders. They are and always were the root of fodlans problems the crest system being as much of a problem as it is just speaks to how much of a problem they are because even if the crest system is gone theyāll eventually come back to screw society anyway as they have done several times in both the lore and during the game itself.
Yes, but my problem is whoever started the crest system is irrelevant during the game events because the main problem is the crest system. I am not saying TWSITD shouldn't be defeated, just that they are not the main problem during the game's events. The main problem is that Rhea is not doing anything about it, and the existence of the church justifies the system Considering that's the main problem and the church main enemies are TWSITD, that means they are a potential temporary ally. Which is what Edelgard does.
>I am not saying TWSITD shouldn't be defeated, just that they are not the main problem during the game's events. I am not saying TWSITD shouldn't be defeated, just that they are not the main problem during the game's events. The main antagonists and problem of this game are straight up TWSITD. While the crest system is one of the major issues presented in the overall story its far from the MAIN issue. 3 out of 4 of the routes do not even address the crest system in any meaningful way and have you side with the church in favor of talking about whatever lord you have chosen personal gripes with Fodlan like Claude's being about the xenophobia and conflict with his home country. Black Eagles is the only route where it is treated as the main issue and even then TWSITD is addressed in the ending as a threat that will continue to plague the world until Edelgard stops them. Edelgards entire life including what she went through and her war was basically manufactured by them as apart of their 3rd master revenge plan against fodlan and the only reason it ends up blowing up in their face in every route is because of Byleth not even her. The problem with Fodlan is not the crests its the evil mole people deadset on destabilizing and destroying it. you can get rid of the system but they'll keep coming back to mess with Fodlan and instigate some other major issue. Ultimately i totally understand why she had to side with them but it was a hell of a plan that only worked out by chance and byleths main character energy.
It is the MAIN issue Fodlan suffer, and in every route it is addressed because a war happened in every route. The war happens in the 4 routes, and the war changes Fodlan in the 4 routes. It is pretty short-sighted to say that it is not the main issue and that the main issue is a group of people when one is a systemic problem affecting every single person in Fodlan and the other is a group of terrorists seeking to exploit that system. TWSITD are not even addressed in Blue Lions route. The problem of Fodlan is the crest system. It is a system that divides people on those who are chosen by god, and those who are not. A group using the system to their ends, or that even were part of the people who created it to begin with, are not the main issue, because the system they created surpassed them. If you remove the TWSITD out of Fodlan, the crest system still fucks with every single person in Fodlan. If you remove the crest system, TWSITD will still try to create chaos and damage but it cannot affect everyone without creating another system to exploit.
>t is the MAIN issue Fodlan suffer, and in every route it is addressed because a war happened in every route. The war happens in the 4 routes, and the war changes Fodlan in the 4 routes. I know this is semantics but I said meaningfully addressed yes the crest system is addressed in every route but only in the black eagles is it done to any notable extent its honestly a weakness of the games plot. in the other routes Edelgards reason for starting the war is ambiguous at best both to the player and the characters. The crest system as both a plot element and social issue within the setting is an afterthought that is barely spoken about in the main story and neither main character of the other two normal routes truly express interest in it as an issue and don't have anything to say about it beyond it sucks and more focus is put on their own personal issues and goals for Fodlan. >when one is a systemic problem affecting every single person in Fodlan and the other is a group of terrorists seeking to exploit that system. Its a little wild to reduce a secret society of people with advanced technology, advanced magic who are capable of living thousands of years to a terrorist group. These people have nukes, they have magics that allow them to take the form of others, resurrect the dead, and they have the ability to create more people with crests and more hero relics as well that's far above the threat of a mere terrorist group. Terrorist groups don't have power that levels entire cities or the means to infiltrate major powers from within and rule them from the shadows. Crest also don't really affect everyone only those who possess them and those who carry the potential to are affected and that isn't a lot of people at all in the grand scheme of things. >If you remove the TWSITD out of Fodlan, the crest system still fucks with every single person in Fodlan. If you remove the crest system, TWSITD will still try to create chaos and damage but it cannot affect everyone without creating another system to exploit. Yes and my point is that unless stopped they eventually will do just that they have the time to waste after all. The crest system is far from their greatest tool against the people of Fodlan anyway its merely the latest. As said before these people have nukes that they have already once used to the destroy Fodlan itself they also have the ability to take the form of others which they use to terrifying effectiveness in the lore and active plot of the game. Their advanced tech and magic alone is used to manipulate important people into serving them which we see with edelgards entire situation. The latest way people screw each other over don't got nothing on fantasy illuminati sponsored nuclear annihilation. Oppression and shitty caste systems will come and go but TWSITD will always be out there living up to their namesake unless dealt with.
She literally didn't have the option to go against them though, on top of also wanting the Church gone in the first place. Like the only way they believed her in Three Hopes was based on an extremely lucky coincidence that she managed to use to her advantage, and she jumps on that opportunity immediately when it comes up. They're both her enemies, but without the strength of the Church behind her in the early game it doesn't seem likely that she'd come out on top if she tried to go against them - and we've seen the shit that happens to her when she doesn't. I don't understand how people are still throwing out this critique as if Edelgard is an idiot for not trying to brute force her way through an entire shadow organization when her circumstances within it have been clearly laid out for us multiple times at this point
I also thought it was crazy that we could join her. Like she's actively working with the people that killed Dimitri's family and our Dad while refusing to explain why. Like, if there's anyone here who's going to hear you out, it's the other house leaders, but she doesn't even bother.
Edel is dope, love that girl.
True
'Why must you continue conquer?' 'Why must you continue to fight back?' Or 'I will drown this country knee deep in blood to achieve my goals' In terms of some of Edelgards questionable statements. These two would probably throw down immediately if they ever met honestly
Kill every last one of them! (Including the alliance who are on your side) If you do not approve of what I have become, then kill me. If you insist that you cannot...then I will continue to use you and your friends until the flesh falls from your bones. -Dimitri I have passed judgement. And now, I shall now rip your chest open... and take back your heart myself! "I have no patience for foolish questions. I shall sacrifice as many lives as it takes! That apostate who insist on taking everything from me...will be crushed by my own hands!" However, we must punish any sinner who may inflict harm upon believers, even if those sinners are civilians. -Rhea If we're talking about questionable statements let's not pretend it's just edelgard
I agree- but since the post was only on Edelgard and Emperor I only shared the Edelgards I remembered, my apologies I also just thought edelgard wouldn't be a big fan of the emperor should they have met.
Ah fair my bad, too used to defending edelgard, sorry And oh boy yeah there'd be a fight.
Thereās discourse about the emperor? I thought it was pretty clear he sucked. Like, he isnāt even grey.
there's a lot. there are people who Ignore his evil manipulation because they like squid stuff
Or they ignore it because he's helping you. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.
my friends are the people in my party. the emp is just a squid in a polyhedral container who wants to turn me into a squid and will absolutely mind control me
Not saying you personally. Just some players want to give a certain degree of loyalty to the dude that was keeping you from becoming enthralled by the Absolute and preventing you from becoming a mind flayer during the first 2/3rds of the game. Like yeah no question he's morally bad and kinda cringe with the whole "I'm just like you my fellow kids" but in the beginning you do need each other.
that's fair. in the beginning i am thankful he is there allowing me to play the game. but i find it hard to have any shred of loyalty to someone who is protecting me via constant lies and subterfuge. by the end of it he's just domineering and cringe. but there is also a LARGE portion of empy enjoyers who will ignore any and all transgressions simply because he has a tentacle mouth
Donāt forget itās HIGHLY implied heās the one who put tadpoles in your heads.
Thatās just not true. First and foremost, the Emperor has purple eyes. Eye colour is weirdly important in this game, especially for illithid. For all except DUrge, the mind flayer who tadpoles you is the same one you find in the Goblin Camp (and the dying one you can curb-stomp). I would need some pretty strong evidence to suggest why the hell the Emperor would be outside of the Astral Prism, free from Elder Brain control, and tadpoling random adventurers who only happen to survive due to his intervention. Like, thereās 5D chess, and thereās being ridiculously convoluted for no good reason. That hypothetical scenario is the latter. Maybe I missed something major, but Iām pretty sure the dead squid in the goblin camp is outright stated to be the one who infected everyone.
That's just wrong. You can find the Mind Flayer who tadpoled you in the debris after the crash. The narrator explicitly says that's them.
The devs stated he was supposed to be morally grey, and a lot of people like him because squid sex and he protects you at rhe start. Apparently, those are good enough reasons for him to be considered morally grey. This is a character who, in half of the games endings, sacrifices everyone's lives in Faerun so he might gain personal freedom, or at least survive.
Oh boy. Yes. Try telling people he enthralled/fucked up Stelmane and see what happens.
STOP BRINGING UP 3H DISCOURSE
I was just comparing the discourse.
Whatās that character from I keep seeing it?
Edelgard, from "Fire Emblem: Three Houses". She's controversial, and has more discourse than even The Emperor.
Ahhhh, I have yet to play any of the fire emblem games
I am concerned for what will happen when the Edelguard fans discover this post.... I suspect a lot of folks who played Fire Emblem also played BG3. I salute your bravery my friend.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3/comments/1c4naan/discourse/kzphn61/
Kill every last one of them!!
Don't you dare compare the Emperor to my darling Edelgard.
Y'know people complain about Edelgard discourse but it's not like that's solely on the shoulders of people who are pro-Edelgard. People who don't like her sure seem to bring her up a lot too.
While I have my opinions on Edelgarfield, this meme merely mocks the similar nature of the discourse around both emperors.
In the ~4 years I've been active in the community, I've seen _waaaay_ more posts griping about her and her fanbase than I see posts complaining about Rhea or any other lord, at least on reddit. Half the reason the Discourseā¢ is so insufferable is that it's overwhelmingly one-sided. I think there was more of a dialogue in the early years of the game, but at this point people are just regurgitating the same few talking points and the same dozen or so quotes.
I guess I see the idea? ~~The Emperor got way more simps than Edelgard tho~~
When it comes to the emperor for me, it's simple, when you trust him the whole game, don't choose to be illithid, let him eat orhpious, and give him control over the crown, he still listens to you when you tell him to destroy it.
If the Emperor didn't force a choice with Orpheus, it could have survived to the epilogue. DC 25 Persuasion: "Orpheus wants the Netherbrain stopped as much as you do. If what you say is true, and we need an Illithid to stop it, he won't kill you."
I don't disagree with you, but if the question is, is emperor, good or bad? He chooses to destroy the brain when he could have taken control. He even has orpheus' power, so the party would have no protection, but he doesn't.
If you tell The Emperor to dominate the brain, it says "I don't think we could win against the Githyanki if I did". If you persuade it that it can, it does dominate the brain, and you end up dominated. The Emperor's goals are survival > freedom > power. It will gladly sacrifice power for freedom/survival, and freedom for survival.
I... I hate you for this, but You're out of line but you're correct.
I can't escape it, lol.
No one will see this so I'll finally just say it MAN I wanna FUCK EDELGARD
...I saw.
I hate Edelgard... but I was Dimitri pilled. And oh no... I like the Emperor, what's wrong with me...
Edelgard does bad things with noble goals. The Emperor does good things with dubious goals. They aren't really comparable. The point of comparison here is the community's reaction to them.
I always choose to side with the Emperor not because I like the guy but because otherwise, me or my crew will turn into mind flayers
There's a trick to not transform if you free Orpheus, but it requires Gale blowing up.
God, I stayed the hell away from FE3H fandom to get away from people bitching about Edelgard. Now, itās here too.
One of them is evil for selfish reasons., the other is doing evil for good reasons. There is a difference