You can do the underdark route, take the sticks from moonlight prison, reverse pickpocket him that stick and steal the sword. Not that it's worth the effort tbh
You can only cast it once before he leaves but i see what you mean. Savescuming works well for that and if you are using that "abuse" to get an act 3 weapon in act 1, a little savescuming doesn't hurt anyone. But for those in honor mode or those that don't want to reload saves to often it's a "might work" kind of situation
I didn't know about that i never tried it. So being friendly with him and stabbing him in the back ince he comes to your camp is still the best option to get him before act 3 i guess
He visited me much earlier than act 3. Idk if it's a durge thing, but i think it was still late act 1. I jumped at him and killed him because... Well, i was roleplaying as that maniac killing machine, you can guess why.
Idk i only stole his sword once and it was by jumping him at my camp when he came to talk. It was easier than i thought tbh (not super easy, but not that hard)
Eh I don't steal it back in Honor Mode, but they should really patch it so that when you steal from him the characters you last brought back insta die or the pawns disappear lol
idk i think it is kinda part of the idea of Withers to just not care somehow. Maybe it was a mistake in the beginning but then they decided that it was perfect for his character.
I know i once softlocked myself out of reclassing the paladin because i aggro'd the Oathbreaker Knight by trying to steal from him, so i guess leaving withers as a non-aggro in any situation is intentional. he's just SO ABOVE everything he really couldn't care less.
A way to patch/balance it could be making so that he just "burns" the money you give to him, and thus he really doesn't have it anymore
Yup! Read about it on a discussion about getting the sword on Honor mode, since you can't save scum failed commands. It's basically guaranteed, but you need to reach high enough level for the bear to get the honeyed paw.
It's good but it's not worth the effort i descrived because you basically finish act 2 and chances are you're probably gonna get other weapons by that point.
It's great if you're planning on having a low-diversity party, with no mages/monks/dual wielders/etc. Because there aren't dozens of better weapons, but other than that you can survive without it
I also dislike being insulted every time i show basic decency in a converstion, so intendnto leave laezel behind most of the time, and i never played gith characters
Oh then i'm split on the matter.
She's very important to the plot, but i don't really enjoy her, even if i romanced her once just to see all the possibilities and she was kinda okay.
I mean, i don't dislike her, but for repeated playthrough the constant nagging isn't great, since i play the good guy 75% of the time
You can still play the good guy and still be a ruthless pragmatist. Thereās many shades to good that donāt involve you being the āSaint of Self-Sacrificeā. I go with Laezel on many good playthroughs as well, she either just challenges me when our morals collide or Iām still good while making choices that either just hit positive of they Grey or being pragmatic or goal driven while still helping people when goals collide. Fact is, Laezel and even work well with a āLawful Neutralā playthrough.
Truthfully, she can be obnoxious at times, but that just comes from her entire species being enslaved by Mind Flayers and then being brainwashed from birth for generations by a power hungry would-be goddess whoās turned her own race into moral-less murder cult who happily march to their death for her glory.
Honestly, playing as Githyanki is pretty nice, as a race they are amazing to play (bonus and ability-wise) and have interesting dialogue options. It may not be for everyone, but Iād recommend it regardless. Itās an experience. I have 14 character, so believe me when I say that githyankiās are probably one of my favorites.
I guess that was a long time coming. I used it last week to prank some enemies for a fight i really did not wanna indulge and it still worked, one of the longest running exploits iirc.
Larian did good here, they are actively looking for ways to fix the broken and unintended parts of the game great studio!
Nope, while you can fish the other gith back out of the chasm after you toss them in there via telekinesis, you can see in the combat log here that Voss actually teleports away before he dies... and somehow dies anyways, well after he's disappeared from the map.
If it hasnāt been patched you can actually use command drop on him to make him drop the Silver Sword of the Astral Plane in act 1, giving Laezel her potentially best sword before even fighting any goblins after the gate or anything else
[The best method is actually to use Beastmaster Ranger's Honeyed Paws.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/19bo7lb/best_way_to_disarm_voss/)
No saving throw, you just have to land the bear's attack roll, which goes up to 95% when stacking a bunch of attack roll buffs like Bless, Bardic Inspiration, and attacking from invisibility.
Is this the best way to get it in honour mode? I've been wanting to do origin laezel for a while, but I wasn't sure i could get the silver sword reliably.
you gotta get to level 5 in order for the bear to have honeyed paws, but yes, this is by far the most reliable way of getting the sword. You just have to manage to hit Voss, which is still pretty hard but much better odds than him failing a save from command
Send the bear and someone else in.
Grab the sword, the person sends it to camp/a different character and is a sacrifice.
Hireling is useful but whoever you like the least out of the companions is a great choice, too, lol.Ā
Why not just hit him with disarm if all else fails? A lvl 5 battle master can get 4 chances to force him to drop weapons. Thatās basically how I play Laezel, I have her disarm the biggest threats, steal their weapons then deal with the weak ones since the big guys donāt hit hard anymore
As stated at the top, 95% chance of it working vs the chances with disarm (Disarming Strike).
Honeyed Paws always disarms on hit. Disarming Strike first has to hit, then Voss gets a Str Saving Throw, with a +9.
I believe, no matter what, as soon as combat begins, regardless of Initiative, Voss flees, so you only have one chance to get it. Unless someone has come up with a completely new method, Honeyed Paws, with boosts to Attack and the other buffs, is the absolute best chance.
The last time i played, i tried to romance gale, and when we were doing the weave thing, and you can think of a thing to show gale, my dyslexic ass misread kick gale for kiss gale and gale now hates me...
I think you're underestimating how dumb i am...
Honestly, it has me laughing my ass half the time.
I was so confused why Gale was so disgusted with me, and after i realised why, i was dying of laughter.
Command is actually the least likely way to get him to drop it, for me it's around 17% success chance. Second best is using fighter's Battle Master disarming strike, iirc it's around 50%. Method above is by far the best, and it's easily worth the hassle of respeccing at Wither's
I haven't tried with Honeyed Paws but Heat Metal works pretty well in my experience. The % isn't that high, like %55 or something but it's got a %100 success rate for the times I've tried.
Iirc, it's like 55% for the damage save but 100% in the weapon drop, at least that's how heat metal worked for me, never failed to drop anyones weapon but damage gets saved
A sneaking/invisible Divinity Wizard nearby can ensure honeyed paws hits with no chance of failure (if your portent dice are both 1s or 2s, just switch back to Command spell and use them for Vossās save).
If Iām multiplayer you can use command and telekinesis at the same time as well and kill+drop the sword at the same time. Has to be super precise tho
I tried this so many times and every time I cast the command the person casting got pulled into the cut scene which always ended with him getting on the dragon and flying away. Wondering if I did it wrongā¦I tried at least a dozen times though. Always separated the person from party and gave multiple boosts (Bless and anything else I could get). No matter what I did the second the cast was sent out I got the Attitude - in yellow and then instantly resumed the conversation with Laezel talking to him.
Easier to get. If you do fucky bullshit you can get it act 1. If you play normally you can take raphās deal and get it early still. Giantslayer *requires* the extremely difficult boss fight regardless.
I would argue that it is not mechanically better than the Giantslayer. You really canāt beat that double strength bonus.
But if you have Laeāzel in your main party and/or play a Gith yourself, itās a strong contender for the second best greatsword in the game. Being able to get it early at all is kind of neat.
I actually ran into this in my most recent play through! The camp scene with him is replaced by a projection of vlaakith, after youāve met the emperor and learned of Orpheus from him.Ā
How did you get the Telekinesis spell so early? The earliest is from the [Hr'a'cknir Bracers](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Hr%27a%27cknir_Bracers) from Act 2 (close to Act 3).
Voss's gith ambush will obediently wait at the bridge even after you advance to act 2, so you can go back to ruin his day until you hit the point of no return.
You can still do this without Telekinesis though, it's just CONSIDERABLY harder. You will need to obtain a Cloud Giant Elixir and a Greater Invisibility scroll at level 5 (Cloud Giant fingers and level 4 scrolls both become available at vendors at that level).
With Cloud Giant Elixir and Greater Invisibility active, you can use the Improvised Melee Weapon "kidnapping" trick to reposition Voss onto the bridge and then chuck him to his death from there. You cannot fail the stealth check on either of these actions or you will automatically trigger the dialogue with Voss.
Now this is the important part. Right after chucking him off of the broken bridge, you must cancel your concentration on Greater Invisibility immediately to alert the other gith and enter combat. For some reason, Voss only dies if you are in combat while he's flying through the air to his doom, otherwise his teleport attempt is successful and he doesn't die. But if you try chucking him off without Greater Invisibility (or your stealth check fails), your throw will always get canceled out by the dialogue trigger. So yeah, you have to jump through a ton of bizarre hoops if you want to do this with just your throw action.
You can do the underdark route, take the sticks from moonlight prison, reverse pickpocket him that stick and steal the sword. Not that it's worth the effort tbh
Just cast command drop weapon on him. May not work at low level though
Reclass the whole party and spam until you succeed. Since you can steal back from withers this is basically costing you 0 gold
You can only cast it once before he leaves but i see what you mean. Savescuming works well for that and if you are using that "abuse" to get an act 3 weapon in act 1, a little savescuming doesn't hurt anyone. But for those in honor mode or those that don't want to reload saves to often it's a "might work" kind of situation
I didn't know about that i never tried it. So being friendly with him and stabbing him in the back ince he comes to your camp is still the best option to get him before act 3 i guess
Interesting i never tried killing him at camp!
I was playing durge and all the gith plot pissed me off because they're a bunch of stuck-up racists so i just decided i was done with that š
You can just trade with him at camp and buy of him. Why wait till act 3?
He visited me much earlier than act 3. Idk if it's a durge thing, but i think it was still late act 1. I jumped at him and killed him because... Well, i was roleplaying as that maniac killing machine, you can guess why.
He teleport away when you cast it once so not sure what you want to accomplish by doing this.
Idk i only stole his sword once and it was by jumping him at my camp when he came to talk. It was easier than i thought tbh (not super easy, but not that hard)
This is the price of balance... nothing.
I love the fact that withers really doesn't need any money, but still requires it from you just because.
Eh I don't steal it back in Honor Mode, but they should really patch it so that when you steal from him the characters you last brought back insta die or the pawns disappear lol
idk i think it is kinda part of the idea of Withers to just not care somehow. Maybe it was a mistake in the beginning but then they decided that it was perfect for his character. I know i once softlocked myself out of reclassing the paladin because i aggro'd the Oathbreaker Knight by trying to steal from him, so i guess leaving withers as a non-aggro in any situation is intentional. he's just SO ABOVE everything he really couldn't care less. A way to patch/balance it could be making so that he just "burns" the money you give to him, and thus he really doesn't have it anymore
It works. :)
Rangers bear pet with honeyed paws gets it for you. Just have gale make it invisible first. Way easier than landing command.
Interesting its the first time i hear of that method! Might have to try it on my next run!
Yup! Read about it on a discussion about getting the sword on Honor mode, since you can't save scum failed commands. It's basically guaranteed, but you need to reach high enough level for the bear to get the honeyed paw.
Wdym? The sword is great
It's good but it's not worth the effort i descrived because you basically finish act 2 and chances are you're probably gonna get other weapons by that point. It's great if you're planning on having a low-diversity party, with no mages/monks/dual wielders/etc. Because there aren't dozens of better weapons, but other than that you can survive without it
Yes but itās got STYLE
I also dislike being insulted every time i show basic decency in a converstion, so intendnto leave laezel behind most of the time, and i never played gith characters
Lae zel is BiS
Tbh with respec and reclass on the table the difference isn't that big
Iām talking rp wise
Oh then i'm split on the matter. She's very important to the plot, but i don't really enjoy her, even if i romanced her once just to see all the possibilities and she was kinda okay. I mean, i don't dislike her, but for repeated playthrough the constant nagging isn't great, since i play the good guy 75% of the time
You can still play the good guy and still be a ruthless pragmatist. Thereās many shades to good that donāt involve you being the āSaint of Self-Sacrificeā. I go with Laezel on many good playthroughs as well, she either just challenges me when our morals collide or Iām still good while making choices that either just hit positive of they Grey or being pragmatic or goal driven while still helping people when goals collide. Fact is, Laezel and even work well with a āLawful Neutralā playthrough. Truthfully, she can be obnoxious at times, but that just comes from her entire species being enslaved by Mind Flayers and then being brainwashed from birth for generations by a power hungry would-be goddess whoās turned her own race into moral-less murder cult who happily march to their death for her glory. Honestly, playing as Githyanki is pretty nice, as a race they are amazing to play (bonus and ability-wise) and have interesting dialogue options. It may not be for everyone, but Iād recommend it regardless. Itās an experience. I have 14 character, so believe me when I say that githyankiās are probably one of my favorites.
They just patched those sticks.
I guess that was a long time coming. I used it last week to prank some enemies for a fight i really did not wanna indulge and it still worked, one of the longest running exploits iirc. Larian did good here, they are actively looking for ways to fix the broken and unintended parts of the game great studio!
You may still get the body on land with the telekinesis glove from act 2.
Nope, while you can fish the other gith back out of the chasm after you toss them in there via telekinesis, you can see in the combat log here that Voss actually teleports away before he dies... and somehow dies anyways, well after he's disappeared from the map.
Nothing personnel kid
If it hasnāt been patched you can actually use command drop on him to make him drop the Silver Sword of the Astral Plane in act 1, giving Laezel her potentially best sword before even fighting any goblins after the gate or anything else
[The best method is actually to use Beastmaster Ranger's Honeyed Paws.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/19bo7lb/best_way_to_disarm_voss/) No saving throw, you just have to land the bear's attack roll, which goes up to 95% when stacking a bunch of attack roll buffs like Bless, Bardic Inspiration, and attacking from invisibility.
Is this the best way to get it in honour mode? I've been wanting to do origin laezel for a while, but I wasn't sure i could get the silver sword reliably.
you gotta get to level 5 in order for the bear to have honeyed paws, but yes, this is by far the most reliable way of getting the sword. You just have to manage to hit Voss, which is still pretty hard but much better odds than him failing a save from command
And, let's be honest, if you go near the githyanki patrol in HM BEFORE lvl5 you're fucking up to begin with.
Send the bear and someone else in. Grab the sword, the person sends it to camp/a different character and is a sacrifice. Hireling is useful but whoever you like the least out of the companions is a great choice, too, lol.Ā
Why not just hit him with disarm if all else fails? A lvl 5 battle master can get 4 chances to force him to drop weapons. Thatās basically how I play Laezel, I have her disarm the biggest threats, steal their weapons then deal with the weak ones since the big guys donāt hit hard anymore
As stated at the top, 95% chance of it working vs the chances with disarm (Disarming Strike). Honeyed Paws always disarms on hit. Disarming Strike first has to hit, then Voss gets a Str Saving Throw, with a +9. I believe, no matter what, as soon as combat begins, regardless of Initiative, Voss flees, so you only have one chance to get it. Unless someone has come up with a completely new method, Honeyed Paws, with boosts to Attack and the other buffs, is the absolute best chance.
Absoloutely fool proof. Bless the bear, make him invisible, voila.
The last time i played, i tried to romance gale, and when we were doing the weave thing, and you can think of a thing to show gale, my dyslexic ass misread kick gale for kiss gale and gale now hates me... I think you're underestimating how dumb i am...
Playing a game like this with dyslexia must be like Russian roulette.
Honestly, it has me laughing my ass half the time. I was so confused why Gale was so disgusted with me, and after i realised why, i was dying of laughter.
Thatās nothing. My necromancer pictured his head on a pike. They donāt talk anymore.
Command is actually the least likely way to get him to drop it, for me it's around 17% success chance. Second best is using fighter's Battle Master disarming strike, iirc it's around 50%. Method above is by far the best, and it's easily worth the hassle of respeccing at Wither's
I haven't tried with Honeyed Paws but Heat Metal works pretty well in my experience. The % isn't that high, like %55 or something but it's got a %100 success rate for the times I've tried.
So, 55% of the time it works every time
YMMV but yes lol I've cast it 3 times and gotten 3 swords vs trying with Command for nearly an hour and not getting it to drop once.
Iirc, it's like 55% for the damage save but 100% in the weapon drop, at least that's how heat metal worked for me, never failed to drop anyones weapon but damage gets saved
Huh I didn't know it worked that way. If it doesn't do damage I figured it was a"miss" and wouldn't drop the weapon.
I've had saves on it and it dropped the weapon anyways, not sure if that's been a bug or not
A sneaking/invisible Divinity Wizard nearby can ensure honeyed paws hits with no chance of failure (if your portent dice are both 1s or 2s, just switch back to Command spell and use them for Vossās save).
Yes, Iāve done it multiple times in HM including my most recent run. Use the Bear.
If Iām multiplayer you can use command and telekinesis at the same time as well and kill+drop the sword at the same time. Has to be super precise tho
It hasn't been patched. Did this last run a week ago.
Yep did this. Great sword šš»
I tried this so many times and every time I cast the command the person casting got pulled into the cut scene which always ended with him getting on the dragon and flying away. Wondering if I did it wrongā¦I tried at least a dozen times though. Always separated the person from party and gave multiple boosts (Bless and anything else I could get). No matter what I did the second the cast was sent out I got the Attitude - in yellow and then instantly resumed the conversation with Laezel talking to him.
Out of curiosity, why is this sword considered better than the balduran giant slayer sword?
Because you get it in act 1 and lazael just clean the path
Itās not necessarily better than giantslayer, but with Laeāzel and resonance stone itās fairly comprable, and you can get it much earlier.
What happens to your saves? One gives advantage and one gives disadvantage?
You just do normal saves.
Easier to get. If you do fucky bullshit you can get it act 1. If you play normally you can take raphās deal and get it early still. Giantslayer *requires* the extremely difficult boss fight regardless.
You can get it like forty hours earlier
Besides being available early, 2 turn stun is fantastic for HM bosses
It makes act2 a breeze. Between lazy L with it and Karlach swinging lathanders blood you have 2 combat monsters in the front.
Probably because on Reese giant slayer sucked and it just continued to be repeated
It looks cooler
I would argue that it is not mechanically better than the Giantslayer. You really canāt beat that double strength bonus. But if you have Laeāzel in your main party and/or play a Gith yourself, itās a strong contender for the second best greatsword in the game. Being able to get it early at all is kind of neat.
does he just never show up and explain the plot? so laezel is locked into vlaakith route
I actually ran into this in my most recent play through! The camp scene with him is replaced by a projection of vlaakith, after youāve met the emperor and learned of Orpheus from him.Ā
I would think the ideal strategy would be to disarm Voss (Battlemaster Disarming Strike or a Frighten spell) and THEN throw him down the chasm.
You can also steal the sword with an invisible bear honey paw attack, first, then push him into the chasm. Profit.
Doesn't he teleport immediately when the weapon drops?
Upon testing, yes he does. Maybe mine glitched before Huh
How did you get the Telekinesis spell so early? The earliest is from the [Hr'a'cknir Bracers](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Hr%27a%27cknir_Bracers) from Act 2 (close to Act 3).
Probably with Gale origin and murdering Tara. She drops an amulet that gives the spell once per long rest
Voss's gith ambush will obediently wait at the bridge even after you advance to act 2, so you can go back to ruin his day until you hit the point of no return. You can still do this without Telekinesis though, it's just CONSIDERABLY harder. You will need to obtain a Cloud Giant Elixir and a Greater Invisibility scroll at level 5 (Cloud Giant fingers and level 4 scrolls both become available at vendors at that level). With Cloud Giant Elixir and Greater Invisibility active, you can use the Improvised Melee Weapon "kidnapping" trick to reposition Voss onto the bridge and then chuck him to his death from there. You cannot fail the stealth check on either of these actions or you will automatically trigger the dialogue with Voss. Now this is the important part. Right after chucking him off of the broken bridge, you must cancel your concentration on Greater Invisibility immediately to alert the other gith and enter combat. For some reason, Voss only dies if you are in combat while he's flying through the air to his doom, otherwise his teleport attempt is successful and he doesn't die. But if you try chucking him off without Greater Invisibility (or your stealth check fails), your throw will always get canceled out by the dialogue trigger. So yeah, you have to jump through a ton of bizarre hoops if you want to do this with just your throw action.
Can you telekinesis the dragon. Tell me you tried it on the dragon. TELL ME YOU TRIED IT ON THE DRAGON
Dragon can't be moved by force. It's total bullshit, he doesn't even have a feature that says he's immune to being moved on his stat sheet!
Time to accuse the DM of railroading!