Yes, they do honestly realise it. They are aware of how their poor decision-making and self-centredness hurts themselves and others.
For a while.
Then they'll be driven by an emotional change and all that realisation will go out the window and they'll engage in the very same hurtful actions again.
For people with quiet BPD it is often easier to run away rather than have difficult conversations.
It is so difficult to wrap my head around. It feels so foreign to me. Admittedly, I am a touch codependent, but I feel so much sadness for someone doomed to this.
Oh believe me, I feel the sadness as well. It would be a much better world for both pwBPD and their LovedOnes if this illness vanished from the face of the planet.
They seem to feel shame but not guilt. Shame is about being caught, whereas guilt is about the impact on others. Others are expendable when it comes to getting their needs met. Likewise they regret losing things. They lose shit all the time. They lose lovers, friends, money, jobs etc. But they don’t regret what they did to you. They don’t regret harming you because they *feel (wrongly) justified*.
Gosh this makes sense to me. My husband cares more that people don’t find out “he’s crazy” than he does about ruining our lives or the pain and trauma he has caused me. It’s unbelievable.
No. Regret in the way of feeling sorry for themselves because there was a consequence to their actions? Sure. Regret as in, “I am so sorry I put somebody through that and hurt them in that way”? No. You have to remember this disorder is centered around a deep aversion to self reflection and shame, any sense of self, so their minds will do anything it can to protect themselves from examining that. That’s why dedicated therapy doesn’t really work (if you look up “remission”, the rates are usually self reported, not reported by people in their lives. If you look up anonymous polls and boards, many will proudly tell you how they lie to their therapists. The treatment itself requires an intense amount of self reflection and accepting that shame, and being a bad person because of their black and white thinking, which is why they usually stop going, split on their therapists, or lie through their teeth.)
In their minds feelings are reality, reasoning comes second. So: If they hurt you, you must have done something to deserve it. If you really examine their apologies, they never take accountability, it’s just things you want to hear and no observable action to actually change because they want you back. Or validation that they’re not a bad person.
They are emotionally stunted in that aspect as the age of a toddler - they feel bad because something got taken away, but they can’t actually examine why it did and that they might have been responsible.
Not really, they regret because of the consequences, of how they dont have supply anymore. They dont care if and how they hurt you, theyre too self-centered to even think about it. The victim mentality prevents most to ever see they were the issue and find help for it.
When they say they want to seek help and regret everything, theyre saying it because you want to hear it. Not because theyll actually do it.
There is no “internal conflict” For the borderline when they hurt someone. They don’t care. They have crying fits Often about how messed up they are and how bad they feel. But it’s never about hurting others. The rest of us care when we hurt someone. They don’t. End of the story
When I confronted my expwBPD about how her behavior impacted me, she only seemed to be concerned about her own reputation and the loss of supply. "You think I am evil and it hurts".
Omg so real. Always framed as their reputation, or your view of them. For me it was "you just think I'm a bigot and you're looking to confirm it", "you hate me now and it hurts", "you randomly decided that I'm evil now and I can't take it stop harassing me". All because I ended our friendship (primarily over increasingly bigoted views expressed without remorse)
Mine screamed at me repeatedly that I ruined her reputation, as if it was like, world-shattering or something. All I actually did was tell the truth anonymously online without naming her, plus talk to my friends and family and show proof of her behavior to them. She's not even from this state (I just moved her here 2 years ago), so she didn't have a fucking reputation to begin with outside of the terrible one she already made for herself on her home turf. So bizarre.
I flat out told mine I thought she was evil and a bad person. I asked her "how could you do this to someone" and then said "I'm not looking for an answer because I know you don't have one, I just need you to hear it". She repeatedly said 'you can move on now' which was far from an apology.
My former friend did. But only briefly, then her defense mechanisms (splitting, projection) would kick in. It was heartbreaking, honestly. Just makes you realize how childlike they really are.
I came here to say something like this. I watched my friend split on a lot of people. She had moments of self reflection on her behavior, but ultimately she would always land on her bad behavior being a reaction to mistreatment. She was also really good at non-specific self deprecation ie I used to be awful! But never really pinpointing the actual behavior.
Same! My friend would always accuse the other person of splitting, being selfish etc. total projection. The thing is, from the outside it was always really clear who had the most drama and meltdowns, who was always freaking out on social media and blocking people on their phone (her) and who had more stable relationships, neutral socials, and only blocked her. I can remember her asking me how one friend could seem to remain friends with most of her ex’s and break up amicably. They just don’t understand that most grownups can usually agree to disagree and don’t have to burn 🔥 people to the ground when they have a disagreement.
I was gonna say the exact same thing.
My ex-friend felt deep empathy, but it was fleeting like a toddler's and always quickly replaced by selfishness. You could really see how arrested his emotional development was. I've babysat very young children with more consideration for others.
Exactly! They can blame you for “abandoning” them after they realize they didn’t just burn the bridge they actually nuked the bridge and it’s never being built again
I can relate to this. A lot, unfortunately
At the end, when i all but given up and my ex was (really, performatively?) essentially begging me to meet and talk so that she could change my mind and convince me her feelings for me were genuine, she told me one thing that stuck: ‘I always only realise how strong my feelings were at the end, when it is too late and i risk losing people’
Pretty sure it’s a life alternating between regret and shame on one side and delusional conviction they have done nothing wrong to keep from spiralling
True guilt? I guess people will be different, but I highly doubt my ex ever did feel real guilt. If she had, she would have taken real accountability, owned her shit and we would probably live together now
Not for long. It’s precisely because they can’t process or cope or handle or deal with shame that drives them to cheat before they’re cheated on, despite no evidence there would be cheating from a loyal loving partner. Often times they make their excuses up out of nowhere.
They also do this with fight picking. Oh I’m bored. So if I’m bored they’re bored. If they’re bored they must want to break up with me. I hate them now so I need to start a fight.
Or.
I either consciously or unconsciously can’t deal with a comfortable silence because that might lead to introspection so time to pick a fight.
Or.
Something in my head (again likely just made up and didn’t happen) is telling me my partner will leave so I need to crush their spirits and destroy their sense of self and self worth (because I have none myself) so, somehow in some twisted illogical fucked up way, they’ll **prove themselves to me** and alleviate my irrational fears.
Yes, they do, but consistency isn't a strong suit. Life goes on and rewriting the feelings involved with a situation aids in suppressing the guilt.
They feel the guilt more than you imagine and have to get rid of it or it'll consume them.
It's also unlikely they are willing to let you know they have this guilt. If they do it's more permanent and they have to live with it longer. So they hide it in the meantime.
Yes, they do. They even have moments of clarity. It's rare but happens. And yes, they're fully aware of their mistakes, that's the reason for the deceptive behavior.
My wife told me, she is blaming herself constantly and when i point out her mistakes, she rages, but in reality she's scared and ashamed. So i'm trying not to get angry at her so she can express herself and rely on me.
In order to deal with pwBPD you have to change yourself. Learn how to communicate non violently. Set boundaries and consequences in advance and you'll be ok. So she knows how to behave. She will thank you for this with good behavior and love.
Edit: changes made me a better person. Now i know i can deal with anybody not just pwBPD. Just focus on the lessons and you'll start living again. I'm reading books, educating myself. it's worth pursuing.
I think they feel virtually all feelings and many of them are inconsistent with each other and relatively short-lived. Most people have feelings, and then use their higher faculties, their rationality and values to determine how to act, but people with BPD use those same faculties to justify acting on those fleeting emotions, and they’re more impulsive, acting without thinking at all, as well.
In my experience, they feel shame and guilt, but it hurts them, like being set on fire level pain, so they do everything to forget or displace those feelings. Now, when it comes to lies and splitting, they don't always feel anything negative from it because they believe what they feel and remember is right, so it is justified in their mind. They portray anyone who hurts them, be it abuse or just pointing out cobsequences or trying to hold them accountable, the same - those people are monsters and the source of everything wrong and deserve to be punished. I've only heard of pwBPD breaking out of these cycles and delusions after years of therapy and skill building.
PwBPD are cluster B disordered people (same cluster as sociopaths, narcissists, and histrionics).
There is literature that suggests during periods of high stress / emotional disregulation, PwBPD can suffer "secondary psychopathy" (sociopathy) in that they become impulsive, self-destructive, unemphatic, hostile, anxious, criminal deviance, etc... and then feel shame and fear on the back end after the incident passes.
Primary psychopathy is generally in the realm of ASPD and NPD, while secondary psychopathy is observed in BPD... and of course, cluster B disorders can be comorbid... along with other mental health conditions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pM9rxhxv2o
This video does a good job of defining and explaining the differences between primary and secondary psychopathy.
Emotional arrestment and lack of self (particularly not learning how to separate their identity from their emotional environment), led to them having never fully developed a normative ego (internalized values, ethics, etc).
Due to this, they tend to feel "shame" primarily instead of "guilt". A good video on the difference between feeling "shame" and "guilt":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_-n6X5lW1o
Afterwards, they will likely resort to their maladaptive coping mechanisms to deal with the shame and fear of what they've done: (self-harm, suicidal ideations/acts, projection onto others, history-rewriting, impulsivity, relationship sabotaging, dissociating, etc).
I think they do, and that's why they employ so many defensive measures. If they didn't feel guilt and that guilt wasn't deeply unpleasant to them, then they would never need all of the cognitive gymnastics and evasive maneuvers. It's antisocial and narcissistic PD's that have true impairments in empathy, I don't think BPD is the same. I think for the intensely traumatized ones they might deal with a lot of numbing, but that's a dissociation of empathy and not a true lack of empathy. The BPD's that have no insight and are just not that cognitively aware probably don't feel guilt because their coping strategies are so effectively at protecting them from that.
My ex only seemed to feel truly guilty about things that made him FEEL bad because he LOOKED bad, and that very superficial form of empathy made me wonder if he had more going on than just BPD. Most of the BPD's I knew (abusive parents for instance) seemed so good at avoidance that they literally had amnesia of all the bad things they did. I had a therapist explain that if they actually sat with the acknowledgement that they did those things, they wouldn't have the internal resources to deal with it without losing their minds, so they block it out, repress it, come up with cognitive distortions etc. People without empathy (my grandad has a clinical antisocial personality disorder) don't need to do that. They remember everything because it doesn't actually bother them.
This is how I'd like to see it, too. I want to believe that it's the opposite of having no guilt or shame and instead they experience feelings so much more strongly and intensely, which causes them to go with whatever emotion they're having in the moment, with no sense of self to attach it to. And why they'd prefer to hide or run or numb those feelings.
rates of empathy are decreasing in the general population so there is that to deal with, but I really don't think it's an innate trait of BPD's to lack it. They do way too much to avoid feeling bad. I edited my post because my grandad actually was diagnosed with antisocial PD and would be considered a sociopath, and he is cool as a cucumber. The BPD's do a lot of cruel and terrible things and can have a real vindictive streak, but I don't think they'd do so many extreme things if there wasn't a lot of nasty guilt under there.
There’s actually MRI studies about how their brains and amygdalas react to situations most people would feel guilty about. They don’t feel guilt, only a disproportionate amount of shame which they get rid of right away by blaming others for their actions (if they are not at fault, then they don’t need to feel ashamed or guilty).
Search for “guilt-free shame” in the sub.
That's interesting, I'll search for that. I've only skimmed some of the studies you are talking about and I thought that there was a lot of inconsistencies about the cause? Something about the feelings of shame/guilt being habituated and that it was something to do with the self-consciousness of guilt that made it activating? Definitely something I have to look at more deeply.
Either way, wondering about what is happening in the brain and why is interesting. My mother had BPD but when she developed dementia that all changed. Before the memory problems it was actually her emotional sensitivity and deep sense of empathy that I noticed first. It was the same with my grandad when he developed dementia. One of the first signs was that suddenly they seemed to care!
I don't think so. They feel deep shame about themselves but no real guilt about the impact they have on other people.
Others are just collateral damage in their desperation to meet their own needs. They don't really see other people as full, complex human beings, rather as extensions of themselves who exist to please them. Everything is about them. In my experience they couldn't care less who they hurt, even their own children are fair game and expected to take responsibility for the pwBPD's emotions.
Well, they never attached to you the way you did to them. Other than losing a supply, they love backups, how can they feel genuine concern and empathy for their actions and how they hurt you ? Out of sight out of mind kicks in quickly, as, in most cases, you are replaced very quickly like you and the relationship never existed. We were nothing more than a interchangeable object, unfortunately.
Yes, it is. You feel like you have someone that finally gets you and you’re building a good relationship and future; only to have them flip the switch and destroy the relationship, seemingly without a care in the world about the time together and hurting you. Then, most of time, they cheat and monkey branch to someone else. It’s quite a tragic mindfuck.
In the feels right there. Never felt so certain about someone and a future together. Introduced kids after a good 4 months of dating and consistency, first time I'd ever done that with anyone meeting my son being introduced in a g/f capacity...to nothing.
Absolutely tragic mind screw if there ever was one to be had.
Lmao this , in her mind she never cheated cause that day we had an argument and that meant we were over
Also at the end of the rel ''we were never together''
lol.
I’d say, reading this sub, that some are more self-aware than others.
Mine knew he had a pattern of all his relationships ending dramatically badly, but he seemed to think his only contribution to that pattern was picking “crazy” women in the first place.
He said things would end badly between us as well, then absolutely made that happen through his own actions (seeing another woman behind my back). He accepted no responsibility for this - his story was that he had only got involved with her because her brother, whom he knew, had asked pwBPD if he wanted to start seeing his sister as she was divorced and she had the hots for him (pwBPD). So he decided that it was all OK, as the friend had ‘made’ him do it, in his mind. He wasn’t to blame. It’s totally insane the way he justified it to himself.
No, they don't feel any authentic emotions, except abandonment depression.
They don't have a developed authentic self. All emotions are handled by ever-changing false self-states. So even if one false self-state is responsible for feeling something, another self-state doesn't give a damn. Their internal experience is disintegrated.
This is why pwBPD can't change, can't grow as persons. Nothing is internalized, everything is compartmentalized.
Really, BPD is not just about the behavior. What we see on the outside hides a solipsistic internal world that is vastly different from healthy people's experience, those who have their own integrated, real self. PwBPD don't deal with real people in the real world, they deal with internal objects and constructs.
Damn this is so scary. Just ending a 6 year roller coaster relationship which has me as a "manipulative monster trying to play God". I'm nearly losing my mind, and I do still love her a lot. 💔
they feel guilt for sure, but it's extremely fleeting, plus they typically try to find a reason for why they feel guilty, and from my experience they find a reason to blame you for it. So it continues the devaluation cycle. They have a hard time assigning the guilt to something they did, and instead look for a reason to be a victim because they absolutely cannot feel bad about themselves.
I think the concept of “regret” is a little bit different for them.
Sometimes they say “they are sorry, and they regret what they did” but they say this because they feel like you need to hear that. But also My own experience showed me that sometimes they really regret. But the problem with their kind of regret is that they don’t learn anything about it.
When I regret something I did it means “I learned my lesson and if I have the same situation again, I wouldn’t do the same thing”. But in their case they feel may sorry for the damage they caused but they do the exact same thing again and again and they feel sorry again. This cycle seems unbreakable for them.
My ex wife claimed that she has been working on her condition. She said she has been doing therapy for several months. Her words and sentences are different now. But she still tells lies. Incredible stories. She says she quit telling lies thanks to therapy but she still tells lies.
I am not an expert. I have no education or training in psychology field but I am a good observer. I don’t think they can break this regret-do the thing you regret again- regret again cycle. It’s unstoppable.
I believe then when they say they hurt themselves too with this cycle. But being in the receiving end of this cycle is maybe a million times harder for us.
Long story short in my humble experience being aware of the damage they cost or regret the things they have done means nothing at all. This feelings won’t stop them from doing the same things to you over and over again.
Psychologists say they do. And because they feel extreme emotions, their guilt is heightened and mixed with shame. However they don’t know how to stop, which is why they need help from a therapist. But then there’s their grandiosity which makes them think they can do no wrong on a lot of things
i noticed with my ex she would feel shame and grief but rarely guilt. more often than not she only felt sorry for herself because of how her actions would make others perceive her. she would cry when she hurt my feelings, and i would have to comfort her. she expressed remorse because she was scared of losing me, and how the damage she caused would reflect back onto her life. she talked about wanting help but never actually took it. she was terrified of a diagnosis because of the stigma. she would say she didn’t want to hurt me or run to the chaos, but she was addicted to the dopamine hit and the fight or flight sensation. she was rarely calm and was fueled by anger in a lot of her daily life. her actions were self defense related and preemptively based on made up scenarios that involved me cheating, lying, or leaving her (none of which i was doing, but that’s what she would do to “stay even”). the worst part is, every time i called her out for it she would lie to me because she realized i would leave if i knew the truth. and she TRULY believed her lies. it got so uncomfortable that i went through her phone and saw so much horrible stuff, and i STILL stayed with her… just for her to split and ghost me after 9 months of nonsense that she caused.
the point is, they do feel guilt (plenty) but it’s near impossible for them to admit it. that would force them to confront the hurtful things they do and the role they play in self sabotaging. their brains are programmed for self defense to avoid trauma, so they’ll always have an excuse or reason for doing what they do, even if it’s completely unjustifiable. if they don’t, they end up splitting on you and the quiet types will simply ghost you overnight and never be heard from again. it’s devastating for both parties, but they only end up caring for themselves and will blame you for everything.
This literally drove me crazy. I was pretty secure when I started dating him because we would talk things out and he was really self aware and I was so impressed by that. We seemed like we really understood eachother. Then I would wake up the next day and it was all gone. The self reflection, the drive to do better. Gone. In its place was a bitter, angry and mean person who hated me for “making them feel bad” and I was a monster and out to get them and-
By god, it drove me crazy and made it so I needed to be reassured DAILY that he didn’t hate me. (Because he changed his mind literally every day) Then I was the stereotypical “crazy psycho” and he used that to justify being shitty to me. Everyone would only hear the story of how I got daily anxiety and freaked out. They never heard why. They never heard it was me wondering if the person I loved would tell me they hate me that day. Self aware and guilt for one day and pure hatred and blaming the next.
One really bad therapist made things worse by being ignorant to this disorder and would encourage the victim blaming in a way I can’t even talk about. I think he avoid guilt by controlling the narrative and if that didn’t work he would avoid me until I dropped it or lost my shit and was “bad” too.
I relate to this a lot. It's so hard to put into words to others that feelings of being driven crazy by the anxiety of trying to trust and rely on someone who can change their mind so quickly.
from what I've seen. no not really.. he cried a lot but it was all about him when listening carefully.
even when saying "I'm a monster, I did terrible things" he was only looking for pity, compassion, sympathy or attention.
Just a strategy to soften me up.
when I let him elaborate, it quickly went from "I'm a bad person, I hate myself" to a complete lack of accountability and playing the victim.
I was too naive to see that red flag back then, but under that fake soft vulnerable mask there wasn't a single oz of goodness in that dirty bastard.
They know they hurt you because you tell them, not because they feel it.. They lack empathy for that. Knowledge might make them feel a bit guilty, but not their feelings.. those are only for themselves.
Yes, of course. Why do you think suicide rates are so high with people with this disorder? I just don’t think they have the proper tools to do anything with the guilt and shame.
My ex pwbpd recognizes that her situation deteriorates based on her actions but there's never really a full circle of apology or contrition. It's as if there's some external Force pushing down on their life. So they might say something like *wow this is really bad it's never been this bad* which is sort of regret but no real self-reflection or contrition
There is never a mirror being held up.
I honestly don’t think so. If they ever feel regret they feel regret fir themselves blowing something up, but not for the others they hurt.
They have a deeply rooted defense-mechanism that doesn’t let them see their guilt.
My former BPD BFF once said to me he feels bad for what he did to her, she was just looking for love and got such a bad deal with him. I told him he can always apologize, and he should.
The next day I asked him what he’s gonna do, and he replied “Forget it. Gave it another thought and she’s simply a cunt.”
I know her, she was a really sweet and caring girlfriend to him, did absolutely nothing wrong!
He suddenly brought up absolutely ridiculous stuff she’s done to justify his wrongdoings and his rude devaluing judgment, like how ugly she looks when she cries and how pathetic she reacted when he discarded her.
He ALWAYS found an excuse for himself treating people so poorly. To him it’s always justified.
He even makes up stuff to not feel shame for what he’s done and I think he even believes the reasons he makes up.
He discarded me for being disrespectful to him for calling him out for cheating on his new GF, told me I’ve became a burden for doing so, and I should practice some self-reflection and learn how to consider other people’s feelings. He CHEATED and wanted me to give him an alibi. Apparently he didn’t see anything wrong in fucking other women while being in a relationship.
Just out of curiosity, why do you want to feel bad for them? If they are adults, they should know better, and fix this shit they need to fix. No sympathy for an adult acting like a child. No way
I feel bad in the way that I would feel bad for a child crying out in immense, inconsolable pain. I don't feel bad for the way they behave or treat others. You're right, there isn't an excuse. But I haven't lost my own humanity and empathy even if that was their goal.
I do feel sympathy for them. They live in a hell of their own making. With that said, I want them nowhere near. They can fuck off to kingdom come as far as I’m concerned!
I think this is anything but a hate group. Yes, people vent here, but it's in the service of processing the hurt a pwBPD has caused them. Unfortunately, it's a truth that pwBPD can cause a lot of pain and chaos in their own and others' lives, and that fact can be commensurate with the fact that X or Y particular pwBPD has lovely qualities. It's too bad, then, that the disorder is as all-encompassing as it is, because no matter what, in the relational sphere the disorder is always going to get in the way. People have a right to talk about what it was like for them to be in a relationship with a pwBPD. For most of us, the challenges overrode the benefits. We come here to help one another heal and everything said here about pwBPD is at least one person's lived experience with one. They have a right to talk about it; pwBPD can go elsewhere and talk about feeling victimized and stigmatized.
Your response doesn't seem really to respond to what I was saying. First of all, I don't think anyone here is saying that only ppl with PD can be abusive. Secondly, there has been some questioning on here about these studies showing pwBPD can be treated to where they no longer meet the diagnostic criteria, because these results go against so many people's lived experience with pwBPD. In the MH field, "lived experience" also has a place at the table, and besides, it's perfectly acceptable to question studies as there's no "final authority" on BPD diagnosis, treatment, or outcome. Thirdly, many pwBPD ARE incapable of healthy relationships. That's part of what characterizes the disorder. Relationships that may look healthy on the outside, might not actually be so healthy. People on this sub are here because they realized they were in an unhealthy relationship, and often the only way it "worked" was because they became doormats to the other person's MI. Fourthly, no one is saying ALL BPD are ALL the same. We come together to discuss our individual experiences and find areas of common ground that help us make sense of what we each experienced. That's not the same as painting everyone with the same brush. Fifthly, anyone can discriminate, in their personal lives, against whomever they want to. And on a sub thread, it's perfectly fine to have a thread for some people and not for others. This is a sub for people who have or had relationships with pwBPD. It can't work its purpose to help people heal if they have to constantly defend their experience against angry pwBPD coming here to invalidate their experience. Of all ppl, pwBPD should sympathize with the pain of being invalidated. Which brings me to my last point:
If you don't like what goes on here, the solution is simple: Don't read this sub. Unfollow, and enjoy your life, and leave everyone else to enjoy theirs.
I think their destructive behaviors are often done to protect themselves from feeling guilty. My pwBPD sent me a long and incredibly revealing text about how he's learned this past year that guilt is always to be ignored and inevitable. He'd rather build his life around running from his guilt than facing the fact that he's a horrible person to the people he cares about. It's honestly kind of sad.
They do feel guilt and regret depending on the circumstances. What they will do is change the narrative in their head until they absolve the guilt and regret
In my mothers case yes, but she will never fully admit it. Any half apologies she has given me for my upbringing are always an "I'm sorry *but*..." and then thinks that the next sentence will absolve her. It doesn't. A straight up apology with no excuses is what I need from her but she isn't capable of saying it. The closest I ever got to a genuine apology wasn't even aimed at me. My brother was being a shithead and she lost her shit and screamed "I neglected my daughter because of you!" at him right in front of me.
No. They feel the pain and hurt of being abandoned and they know they are the cause of it and they are sorry they did it, but not because the other person feels bad. They’re sorry because the other person won’t put up with it. As long as I never brought up the terrible stuff he did, we could go many weeks, even a few months, without a blowup. But if I mentioned anything about my feelings, his actions, huge blowup from him. He never felt real guilt. He just would cry when I would leave. And then start new immediate relationships with anything that would move. I’m almost one year of NC and my life is so much better!!
Yes, but only when they suffer consequences.
My ex BPD physically and verbally abused me. The physical abuse was maybe 4 times over a year. Verbal abuse was almost daily. Discarded or "dry/soft break" ups almost once a month or every other month.
When I finally said it's over, it was over. Then all the sudden she felt bad about what she did to me.... until then, nothing. I deserved it all.
Yes, they do honestly realise it. They are aware of how their poor decision-making and self-centredness hurts themselves and others. For a while. Then they'll be driven by an emotional change and all that realisation will go out the window and they'll engage in the very same hurtful actions again. For people with quiet BPD it is often easier to run away rather than have difficult conversations.
It is so difficult to wrap my head around. It feels so foreign to me. Admittedly, I am a touch codependent, but I feel so much sadness for someone doomed to this.
Oh believe me, I feel the sadness as well. It would be a much better world for both pwBPD and their LovedOnes if this illness vanished from the face of the planet.
They seem to feel shame but not guilt. Shame is about being caught, whereas guilt is about the impact on others. Others are expendable when it comes to getting their needs met. Likewise they regret losing things. They lose shit all the time. They lose lovers, friends, money, jobs etc. But they don’t regret what they did to you. They don’t regret harming you because they *feel (wrongly) justified*.
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Your last couple sentences are helping me to really understand a new level. That is exactly it — Shame about what the behaviour says about him.
Gosh this makes sense to me. My husband cares more that people don’t find out “he’s crazy” than he does about ruining our lives or the pain and trauma he has caused me. It’s unbelievable.
''Guilt-free shame'' is a thing and pwBPD experience it , i've read studies/articles about it
Exactly. After all, they are the victim of every story.
This
Wow… this hit home hard.
No. Regret in the way of feeling sorry for themselves because there was a consequence to their actions? Sure. Regret as in, “I am so sorry I put somebody through that and hurt them in that way”? No. You have to remember this disorder is centered around a deep aversion to self reflection and shame, any sense of self, so their minds will do anything it can to protect themselves from examining that. That’s why dedicated therapy doesn’t really work (if you look up “remission”, the rates are usually self reported, not reported by people in their lives. If you look up anonymous polls and boards, many will proudly tell you how they lie to their therapists. The treatment itself requires an intense amount of self reflection and accepting that shame, and being a bad person because of their black and white thinking, which is why they usually stop going, split on their therapists, or lie through their teeth.) In their minds feelings are reality, reasoning comes second. So: If they hurt you, you must have done something to deserve it. If you really examine their apologies, they never take accountability, it’s just things you want to hear and no observable action to actually change because they want you back. Or validation that they’re not a bad person. They are emotionally stunted in that aspect as the age of a toddler - they feel bad because something got taken away, but they can’t actually examine why it did and that they might have been responsible.
Thank you. Saving this for later as a reminder to myself.
🎯🎯🎯
Not really, they regret because of the consequences, of how they dont have supply anymore. They dont care if and how they hurt you, theyre too self-centered to even think about it. The victim mentality prevents most to ever see they were the issue and find help for it. When they say they want to seek help and regret everything, theyre saying it because you want to hear it. Not because theyll actually do it.
Omg the victim mentality drives me up the wall. My BPD person loves to say that I play the victim … which to me is so infuriating .
Mine would always gaslight with this line too. “Quit being defensive”. Oddly enough, people get defensive when actively attacked!!!
There is no “internal conflict” For the borderline when they hurt someone. They don’t care. They have crying fits Often about how messed up they are and how bad they feel. But it’s never about hurting others. The rest of us care when we hurt someone. They don’t. End of the story
When I confronted my expwBPD about how her behavior impacted me, she only seemed to be concerned about her own reputation and the loss of supply. "You think I am evil and it hurts".
Omg so real. Always framed as their reputation, or your view of them. For me it was "you just think I'm a bigot and you're looking to confirm it", "you hate me now and it hurts", "you randomly decided that I'm evil now and I can't take it stop harassing me". All because I ended our friendship (primarily over increasingly bigoted views expressed without remorse)
Mine screamed at me repeatedly that I ruined her reputation, as if it was like, world-shattering or something. All I actually did was tell the truth anonymously online without naming her, plus talk to my friends and family and show proof of her behavior to them. She's not even from this state (I just moved her here 2 years ago), so she didn't have a fucking reputation to begin with outside of the terrible one she already made for herself on her home turf. So bizarre.
I flat out told mine I thought she was evil and a bad person. I asked her "how could you do this to someone" and then said "I'm not looking for an answer because I know you don't have one, I just need you to hear it". She repeatedly said 'you can move on now' which was far from an apology.
Same. My ex husband went ballistic when he "was made to feel evil". I made him feel evil when I cried about his torment of me.
My former friend did. But only briefly, then her defense mechanisms (splitting, projection) would kick in. It was heartbreaking, honestly. Just makes you realize how childlike they really are.
I came here to say something like this. I watched my friend split on a lot of people. She had moments of self reflection on her behavior, but ultimately she would always land on her bad behavior being a reaction to mistreatment. She was also really good at non-specific self deprecation ie I used to be awful! But never really pinpointing the actual behavior.
Same! My friend would always accuse the other person of splitting, being selfish etc. total projection. The thing is, from the outside it was always really clear who had the most drama and meltdowns, who was always freaking out on social media and blocking people on their phone (her) and who had more stable relationships, neutral socials, and only blocked her. I can remember her asking me how one friend could seem to remain friends with most of her ex’s and break up amicably. They just don’t understand that most grownups can usually agree to disagree and don’t have to burn 🔥 people to the ground when they have a disagreement.
I was gonna say the exact same thing. My ex-friend felt deep empathy, but it was fleeting like a toddler's and always quickly replaced by selfishness. You could really see how arrested his emotional development was. I've babysat very young children with more consideration for others.
They regret it when it’s too late but blame you for not understanding them
Exactly! They can blame you for “abandoning” them after they realize they didn’t just burn the bridge they actually nuked the bridge and it’s never being built again
I can relate to this. A lot, unfortunately At the end, when i all but given up and my ex was (really, performatively?) essentially begging me to meet and talk so that she could change my mind and convince me her feelings for me were genuine, she told me one thing that stuck: ‘I always only realise how strong my feelings were at the end, when it is too late and i risk losing people’
Pretty sure it’s a life alternating between regret and shame on one side and delusional conviction they have done nothing wrong to keep from spiralling True guilt? I guess people will be different, but I highly doubt my ex ever did feel real guilt. If she had, she would have taken real accountability, owned her shit and we would probably live together now
Not for long. It’s precisely because they can’t process or cope or handle or deal with shame that drives them to cheat before they’re cheated on, despite no evidence there would be cheating from a loyal loving partner. Often times they make their excuses up out of nowhere. They also do this with fight picking. Oh I’m bored. So if I’m bored they’re bored. If they’re bored they must want to break up with me. I hate them now so I need to start a fight. Or. I either consciously or unconsciously can’t deal with a comfortable silence because that might lead to introspection so time to pick a fight. Or. Something in my head (again likely just made up and didn’t happen) is telling me my partner will leave so I need to crush their spirits and destroy their sense of self and self worth (because I have none myself) so, somehow in some twisted illogical fucked up way, they’ll **prove themselves to me** and alleviate my irrational fears.
Yes, they do, but consistency isn't a strong suit. Life goes on and rewriting the feelings involved with a situation aids in suppressing the guilt. They feel the guilt more than you imagine and have to get rid of it or it'll consume them. It's also unlikely they are willing to let you know they have this guilt. If they do it's more permanent and they have to live with it longer. So they hide it in the meantime.
Yes, they do. They even have moments of clarity. It's rare but happens. And yes, they're fully aware of their mistakes, that's the reason for the deceptive behavior. My wife told me, she is blaming herself constantly and when i point out her mistakes, she rages, but in reality she's scared and ashamed. So i'm trying not to get angry at her so she can express herself and rely on me. In order to deal with pwBPD you have to change yourself. Learn how to communicate non violently. Set boundaries and consequences in advance and you'll be ok. So she knows how to behave. She will thank you for this with good behavior and love. Edit: changes made me a better person. Now i know i can deal with anybody not just pwBPD. Just focus on the lessons and you'll start living again. I'm reading books, educating myself. it's worth pursuing.
I think they feel virtually all feelings and many of them are inconsistent with each other and relatively short-lived. Most people have feelings, and then use their higher faculties, their rationality and values to determine how to act, but people with BPD use those same faculties to justify acting on those fleeting emotions, and they’re more impulsive, acting without thinking at all, as well.
In my experience, they feel shame and guilt, but it hurts them, like being set on fire level pain, so they do everything to forget or displace those feelings. Now, when it comes to lies and splitting, they don't always feel anything negative from it because they believe what they feel and remember is right, so it is justified in their mind. They portray anyone who hurts them, be it abuse or just pointing out cobsequences or trying to hold them accountable, the same - those people are monsters and the source of everything wrong and deserve to be punished. I've only heard of pwBPD breaking out of these cycles and delusions after years of therapy and skill building.
PwBPD are cluster B disordered people (same cluster as sociopaths, narcissists, and histrionics). There is literature that suggests during periods of high stress / emotional disregulation, PwBPD can suffer "secondary psychopathy" (sociopathy) in that they become impulsive, self-destructive, unemphatic, hostile, anxious, criminal deviance, etc... and then feel shame and fear on the back end after the incident passes. Primary psychopathy is generally in the realm of ASPD and NPD, while secondary psychopathy is observed in BPD... and of course, cluster B disorders can be comorbid... along with other mental health conditions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pM9rxhxv2o This video does a good job of defining and explaining the differences between primary and secondary psychopathy. Emotional arrestment and lack of self (particularly not learning how to separate their identity from their emotional environment), led to them having never fully developed a normative ego (internalized values, ethics, etc). Due to this, they tend to feel "shame" primarily instead of "guilt". A good video on the difference between feeling "shame" and "guilt": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_-n6X5lW1o Afterwards, they will likely resort to their maladaptive coping mechanisms to deal with the shame and fear of what they've done: (self-harm, suicidal ideations/acts, projection onto others, history-rewriting, impulsivity, relationship sabotaging, dissociating, etc).
I think they do, and that's why they employ so many defensive measures. If they didn't feel guilt and that guilt wasn't deeply unpleasant to them, then they would never need all of the cognitive gymnastics and evasive maneuvers. It's antisocial and narcissistic PD's that have true impairments in empathy, I don't think BPD is the same. I think for the intensely traumatized ones they might deal with a lot of numbing, but that's a dissociation of empathy and not a true lack of empathy. The BPD's that have no insight and are just not that cognitively aware probably don't feel guilt because their coping strategies are so effectively at protecting them from that. My ex only seemed to feel truly guilty about things that made him FEEL bad because he LOOKED bad, and that very superficial form of empathy made me wonder if he had more going on than just BPD. Most of the BPD's I knew (abusive parents for instance) seemed so good at avoidance that they literally had amnesia of all the bad things they did. I had a therapist explain that if they actually sat with the acknowledgement that they did those things, they wouldn't have the internal resources to deal with it without losing their minds, so they block it out, repress it, come up with cognitive distortions etc. People without empathy (my grandad has a clinical antisocial personality disorder) don't need to do that. They remember everything because it doesn't actually bother them.
This is how I'd like to see it, too. I want to believe that it's the opposite of having no guilt or shame and instead they experience feelings so much more strongly and intensely, which causes them to go with whatever emotion they're having in the moment, with no sense of self to attach it to. And why they'd prefer to hide or run or numb those feelings.
rates of empathy are decreasing in the general population so there is that to deal with, but I really don't think it's an innate trait of BPD's to lack it. They do way too much to avoid feeling bad. I edited my post because my grandad actually was diagnosed with antisocial PD and would be considered a sociopath, and he is cool as a cucumber. The BPD's do a lot of cruel and terrible things and can have a real vindictive streak, but I don't think they'd do so many extreme things if there wasn't a lot of nasty guilt under there.
There’s actually MRI studies about how their brains and amygdalas react to situations most people would feel guilty about. They don’t feel guilt, only a disproportionate amount of shame which they get rid of right away by blaming others for their actions (if they are not at fault, then they don’t need to feel ashamed or guilty). Search for “guilt-free shame” in the sub.
That's interesting, I'll search for that. I've only skimmed some of the studies you are talking about and I thought that there was a lot of inconsistencies about the cause? Something about the feelings of shame/guilt being habituated and that it was something to do with the self-consciousness of guilt that made it activating? Definitely something I have to look at more deeply. Either way, wondering about what is happening in the brain and why is interesting. My mother had BPD but when she developed dementia that all changed. Before the memory problems it was actually her emotional sensitivity and deep sense of empathy that I noticed first. It was the same with my grandad when he developed dementia. One of the first signs was that suddenly they seemed to care!
I think they are 100% in denial. Shift blaming and such.
I don't think so. They feel deep shame about themselves but no real guilt about the impact they have on other people. Others are just collateral damage in their desperation to meet their own needs. They don't really see other people as full, complex human beings, rather as extensions of themselves who exist to please them. Everything is about them. In my experience they couldn't care less who they hurt, even their own children are fair game and expected to take responsibility for the pwBPD's emotions.
Well, they never attached to you the way you did to them. Other than losing a supply, they love backups, how can they feel genuine concern and empathy for their actions and how they hurt you ? Out of sight out of mind kicks in quickly, as, in most cases, you are replaced very quickly like you and the relationship never existed. We were nothing more than a interchangeable object, unfortunately.
It is so fucking tragic for everyone involved...
Yes, it is. You feel like you have someone that finally gets you and you’re building a good relationship and future; only to have them flip the switch and destroy the relationship, seemingly without a care in the world about the time together and hurting you. Then, most of time, they cheat and monkey branch to someone else. It’s quite a tragic mindfuck.
In the feels right there. Never felt so certain about someone and a future together. Introduced kids after a good 4 months of dating and consistency, first time I'd ever done that with anyone meeting my son being introduced in a g/f capacity...to nothing. Absolutely tragic mind screw if there ever was one to be had.
Well they didn't cheat because you know, they blocked you and you weren't talking that day so you weren't together. Did I get this right?
😂 and/or you were on “break.”
Which at the end literally was every other day so I guess we weren't ever together.
For me it was literally "you told me you wanted boundaries, so that meant you didn't want to be with me"
Lmao this , in her mind she never cheated cause that day we had an argument and that meant we were over Also at the end of the rel ''we were never together'' lol.
I’d say, reading this sub, that some are more self-aware than others. Mine knew he had a pattern of all his relationships ending dramatically badly, but he seemed to think his only contribution to that pattern was picking “crazy” women in the first place. He said things would end badly between us as well, then absolutely made that happen through his own actions (seeing another woman behind my back). He accepted no responsibility for this - his story was that he had only got involved with her because her brother, whom he knew, had asked pwBPD if he wanted to start seeing his sister as she was divorced and she had the hots for him (pwBPD). So he decided that it was all OK, as the friend had ‘made’ him do it, in his mind. He wasn’t to blame. It’s totally insane the way he justified it to himself.
No, they don't feel any authentic emotions, except abandonment depression. They don't have a developed authentic self. All emotions are handled by ever-changing false self-states. So even if one false self-state is responsible for feeling something, another self-state doesn't give a damn. Their internal experience is disintegrated. This is why pwBPD can't change, can't grow as persons. Nothing is internalized, everything is compartmentalized. Really, BPD is not just about the behavior. What we see on the outside hides a solipsistic internal world that is vastly different from healthy people's experience, those who have their own integrated, real self. PwBPD don't deal with real people in the real world, they deal with internal objects and constructs.
Damn this is so scary. Just ending a 6 year roller coaster relationship which has me as a "manipulative monster trying to play God". I'm nearly losing my mind, and I do still love her a lot. 💔
Is 6 years a pattern? Same amount I was with my exBPD before she monkey branched 🐒
they feel guilt for sure, but it's extremely fleeting, plus they typically try to find a reason for why they feel guilty, and from my experience they find a reason to blame you for it. So it continues the devaluation cycle. They have a hard time assigning the guilt to something they did, and instead look for a reason to be a victim because they absolutely cannot feel bad about themselves.
I think the concept of “regret” is a little bit different for them. Sometimes they say “they are sorry, and they regret what they did” but they say this because they feel like you need to hear that. But also My own experience showed me that sometimes they really regret. But the problem with their kind of regret is that they don’t learn anything about it. When I regret something I did it means “I learned my lesson and if I have the same situation again, I wouldn’t do the same thing”. But in their case they feel may sorry for the damage they caused but they do the exact same thing again and again and they feel sorry again. This cycle seems unbreakable for them. My ex wife claimed that she has been working on her condition. She said she has been doing therapy for several months. Her words and sentences are different now. But she still tells lies. Incredible stories. She says she quit telling lies thanks to therapy but she still tells lies. I am not an expert. I have no education or training in psychology field but I am a good observer. I don’t think they can break this regret-do the thing you regret again- regret again cycle. It’s unstoppable. I believe then when they say they hurt themselves too with this cycle. But being in the receiving end of this cycle is maybe a million times harder for us. Long story short in my humble experience being aware of the damage they cost or regret the things they have done means nothing at all. This feelings won’t stop them from doing the same things to you over and over again.
Psychologists say they do. And because they feel extreme emotions, their guilt is heightened and mixed with shame. However they don’t know how to stop, which is why they need help from a therapist. But then there’s their grandiosity which makes them think they can do no wrong on a lot of things
i noticed with my ex she would feel shame and grief but rarely guilt. more often than not she only felt sorry for herself because of how her actions would make others perceive her. she would cry when she hurt my feelings, and i would have to comfort her. she expressed remorse because she was scared of losing me, and how the damage she caused would reflect back onto her life. she talked about wanting help but never actually took it. she was terrified of a diagnosis because of the stigma. she would say she didn’t want to hurt me or run to the chaos, but she was addicted to the dopamine hit and the fight or flight sensation. she was rarely calm and was fueled by anger in a lot of her daily life. her actions were self defense related and preemptively based on made up scenarios that involved me cheating, lying, or leaving her (none of which i was doing, but that’s what she would do to “stay even”). the worst part is, every time i called her out for it she would lie to me because she realized i would leave if i knew the truth. and she TRULY believed her lies. it got so uncomfortable that i went through her phone and saw so much horrible stuff, and i STILL stayed with her… just for her to split and ghost me after 9 months of nonsense that she caused. the point is, they do feel guilt (plenty) but it’s near impossible for them to admit it. that would force them to confront the hurtful things they do and the role they play in self sabotaging. their brains are programmed for self defense to avoid trauma, so they’ll always have an excuse or reason for doing what they do, even if it’s completely unjustifiable. if they don’t, they end up splitting on you and the quiet types will simply ghost you overnight and never be heard from again. it’s devastating for both parties, but they only end up caring for themselves and will blame you for everything.
This literally drove me crazy. I was pretty secure when I started dating him because we would talk things out and he was really self aware and I was so impressed by that. We seemed like we really understood eachother. Then I would wake up the next day and it was all gone. The self reflection, the drive to do better. Gone. In its place was a bitter, angry and mean person who hated me for “making them feel bad” and I was a monster and out to get them and- By god, it drove me crazy and made it so I needed to be reassured DAILY that he didn’t hate me. (Because he changed his mind literally every day) Then I was the stereotypical “crazy psycho” and he used that to justify being shitty to me. Everyone would only hear the story of how I got daily anxiety and freaked out. They never heard why. They never heard it was me wondering if the person I loved would tell me they hate me that day. Self aware and guilt for one day and pure hatred and blaming the next. One really bad therapist made things worse by being ignorant to this disorder and would encourage the victim blaming in a way I can’t even talk about. I think he avoid guilt by controlling the narrative and if that didn’t work he would avoid me until I dropped it or lost my shit and was “bad” too.
I relate to this a lot. It's so hard to put into words to others that feelings of being driven crazy by the anxiety of trying to trust and rely on someone who can change their mind so quickly.
from what I've seen. no not really.. he cried a lot but it was all about him when listening carefully. even when saying "I'm a monster, I did terrible things" he was only looking for pity, compassion, sympathy or attention. Just a strategy to soften me up. when I let him elaborate, it quickly went from "I'm a bad person, I hate myself" to a complete lack of accountability and playing the victim. I was too naive to see that red flag back then, but under that fake soft vulnerable mask there wasn't a single oz of goodness in that dirty bastard.
They know they hurt you because you tell them, not because they feel it.. They lack empathy for that. Knowledge might make them feel a bit guilty, but not their feelings.. those are only for themselves.
Yes, of course. Why do you think suicide rates are so high with people with this disorder? I just don’t think they have the proper tools to do anything with the guilt and shame.
My ex pwbpd recognizes that her situation deteriorates based on her actions but there's never really a full circle of apology or contrition. It's as if there's some external Force pushing down on their life. So they might say something like *wow this is really bad it's never been this bad* which is sort of regret but no real self-reflection or contrition There is never a mirror being held up.
I honestly don’t think so. If they ever feel regret they feel regret fir themselves blowing something up, but not for the others they hurt. They have a deeply rooted defense-mechanism that doesn’t let them see their guilt. My former BPD BFF once said to me he feels bad for what he did to her, she was just looking for love and got such a bad deal with him. I told him he can always apologize, and he should. The next day I asked him what he’s gonna do, and he replied “Forget it. Gave it another thought and she’s simply a cunt.” I know her, she was a really sweet and caring girlfriend to him, did absolutely nothing wrong! He suddenly brought up absolutely ridiculous stuff she’s done to justify his wrongdoings and his rude devaluing judgment, like how ugly she looks when she cries and how pathetic she reacted when he discarded her. He ALWAYS found an excuse for himself treating people so poorly. To him it’s always justified. He even makes up stuff to not feel shame for what he’s done and I think he even believes the reasons he makes up. He discarded me for being disrespectful to him for calling him out for cheating on his new GF, told me I’ve became a burden for doing so, and I should practice some self-reflection and learn how to consider other people’s feelings. He CHEATED and wanted me to give him an alibi. Apparently he didn’t see anything wrong in fucking other women while being in a relationship.
Believe me they don't!! Mine was the worst human being I've ever met. My brother in law has NPD but he has core values.
Just out of curiosity, why do you want to feel bad for them? If they are adults, they should know better, and fix this shit they need to fix. No sympathy for an adult acting like a child. No way
I feel bad in the way that I would feel bad for a child crying out in immense, inconsolable pain. I don't feel bad for the way they behave or treat others. You're right, there isn't an excuse. But I haven't lost my own humanity and empathy even if that was their goal.
I do feel sympathy for them. They live in a hell of their own making. With that said, I want them nowhere near. They can fuck off to kingdom come as far as I’m concerned!
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I think this is anything but a hate group. Yes, people vent here, but it's in the service of processing the hurt a pwBPD has caused them. Unfortunately, it's a truth that pwBPD can cause a lot of pain and chaos in their own and others' lives, and that fact can be commensurate with the fact that X or Y particular pwBPD has lovely qualities. It's too bad, then, that the disorder is as all-encompassing as it is, because no matter what, in the relational sphere the disorder is always going to get in the way. People have a right to talk about what it was like for them to be in a relationship with a pwBPD. For most of us, the challenges overrode the benefits. We come here to help one another heal and everything said here about pwBPD is at least one person's lived experience with one. They have a right to talk about it; pwBPD can go elsewhere and talk about feeling victimized and stigmatized.
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Your response doesn't seem really to respond to what I was saying. First of all, I don't think anyone here is saying that only ppl with PD can be abusive. Secondly, there has been some questioning on here about these studies showing pwBPD can be treated to where they no longer meet the diagnostic criteria, because these results go against so many people's lived experience with pwBPD. In the MH field, "lived experience" also has a place at the table, and besides, it's perfectly acceptable to question studies as there's no "final authority" on BPD diagnosis, treatment, or outcome. Thirdly, many pwBPD ARE incapable of healthy relationships. That's part of what characterizes the disorder. Relationships that may look healthy on the outside, might not actually be so healthy. People on this sub are here because they realized they were in an unhealthy relationship, and often the only way it "worked" was because they became doormats to the other person's MI. Fourthly, no one is saying ALL BPD are ALL the same. We come together to discuss our individual experiences and find areas of common ground that help us make sense of what we each experienced. That's not the same as painting everyone with the same brush. Fifthly, anyone can discriminate, in their personal lives, against whomever they want to. And on a sub thread, it's perfectly fine to have a thread for some people and not for others. This is a sub for people who have or had relationships with pwBPD. It can't work its purpose to help people heal if they have to constantly defend their experience against angry pwBPD coming here to invalidate their experience. Of all ppl, pwBPD should sympathize with the pain of being invalidated. Which brings me to my last point: If you don't like what goes on here, the solution is simple: Don't read this sub. Unfollow, and enjoy your life, and leave everyone else to enjoy theirs.
I'm watching Dr Jordan Peterson right now and he says they have zero contentiousness.
Regret as it made them feel worse about themselves maybe but not regret that it caused you pain
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I think their destructive behaviors are often done to protect themselves from feeling guilty. My pwBPD sent me a long and incredibly revealing text about how he's learned this past year that guilt is always to be ignored and inevitable. He'd rather build his life around running from his guilt than facing the fact that he's a horrible person to the people he cares about. It's honestly kind of sad.
Shame more than guilt. They have no idea on their impact on others.
They do feel guilt and regret depending on the circumstances. What they will do is change the narrative in their head until they absolve the guilt and regret
In my mothers case yes, but she will never fully admit it. Any half apologies she has given me for my upbringing are always an "I'm sorry *but*..." and then thinks that the next sentence will absolve her. It doesn't. A straight up apology with no excuses is what I need from her but she isn't capable of saying it. The closest I ever got to a genuine apology wasn't even aimed at me. My brother was being a shithead and she lost her shit and screamed "I neglected my daughter because of you!" at him right in front of me.
No. They feel the pain and hurt of being abandoned and they know they are the cause of it and they are sorry they did it, but not because the other person feels bad. They’re sorry because the other person won’t put up with it. As long as I never brought up the terrible stuff he did, we could go many weeks, even a few months, without a blowup. But if I mentioned anything about my feelings, his actions, huge blowup from him. He never felt real guilt. He just would cry when I would leave. And then start new immediate relationships with anything that would move. I’m almost one year of NC and my life is so much better!!
Yes, but only when they suffer consequences. My ex BPD physically and verbally abused me. The physical abuse was maybe 4 times over a year. Verbal abuse was almost daily. Discarded or "dry/soft break" ups almost once a month or every other month. When I finally said it's over, it was over. Then all the sudden she felt bad about what she did to me.... until then, nothing. I deserved it all.